Episode 5 - The Kentucky Derby and Triple Crown

Riders up. They say it's the greatest two minutes in sport. Running for roses, black -eyed Susans and carnations. Before you get your flowers, then it comes down to the test of the champion. You only get one shot. There are no second chances. Three races, five weeks, no time to rest. No time to hesitate. It's all or nothing. The most coveted title in American horse racing. Calm, then a cacophony of cheers. The thunder of hooves, the roars of adoring crowds, the Kentucky Derby,

the Preakness Stakes, the Belmont Stakes. Together, they are the triple crown of American horse racing.

This is the Sporting Almanac Podcast. afternoon ben afternoon jack how are you today yeah i'm okay thanks mate i'm having a very restful weekend how are you i'm in london because uh we're down for the marathon my wife is running the marathon yeah and uh couldn't couldn't be more excited by that yeah i was gonna say you are actually attending a major sporting event this weekend I'm attending a genuine major sporting event, which I did mention just right at the end last

week. Probably should have given it more attention, really. It's the kind of thing I can see us doing a full episode on in the future, shall we say. Yeah, definitely. Plenty of history behind it. I went last year as well. It is actually genuinely, if anyone can get into London for it or is around London, it is a genuinely interesting and fun thing to watch. Obviously, we've got the elite runners first. Obviously, you've got all the

people dressed up. rhinos you've got people dressed as fridges last year um roresh raganathan was running it last year and was getting a lot of attention um it's just it's just a nice place to be would recommend it's an all -day event isn't it it's um basically a day out pro race it's definitely a day out yeah yeah pro racing in the morning uh men's women's disability races and then um then all the amateurs for the entire day which is nice. People lining the streets,

a few drinks if the weather's good. Yeah, I think I'll be heading to the Cutty Sark, so looking forward to it. Oh, that'll be a good location to watch it. Indeed. I've got a friend whose daughter is doing St John's Ambulance, and she's going to be at Mile 22, so I suspect she will be busy. Yes, I suspect so. But yeah, it's good of her. Yeah, exactly. Where should we start?

Last week's events? yeah last week's events obviously we'll start with the the main events and we've had first few rounds of the the NFL draft Cam Ward going first overall to the Tennessee Titans as expected Travis Hunter going second pick as expected but not to the Browns as expected the Jaguars traded up for him so two -way player Travis Hunter will be at the Jacksonville Jaguars next season so lucky for us Brits because I believe they're coming to Wembley the major shock of

the Draft so far is Shadow Sanders dropping way down, so we'll see how that resolves itself. I have opinions about that. Maybe that's best for another episode. I did see that. That's the big shock, isn't it? Anyway, snooker as well. Yeah. Big news there. Lots of updates in the snooker. Yeah, the rocket. The rocket's through. Beat Ali Carter. Good. Comfortably, in the end. Yeah. Fairly comfortably in the end. Four -time winner Mark Selby is out. Yeah, a bit of a shock.

He lost to Ben Williston. And obviously we've previously mentioned that reigning champ Kyron Wilson is gone. Less of a shock. Almost a certainty. Yeah, well, some really good last 16 ties are underway, actually, involving Mark Higgins. Sorry, not Mark Higgins. John Higgins and Mark Williams. They're not playing each other, but they're in a bit of a ding -dong, both of them. And the pick of the last 16 rounds is probably Judd Trump versus Sean Murphy, both former champs. Yeah.

And the other bit of interesting news was Mark Allen hit a 147, which obviously we discussed in our snooker episode. It's very rare. And very lucrative for him. Very lucrative for him, along with the qualifier, pocketing himself quite a lot of money, £147 ,000 a pack. Unless he gets a share of it, I don't know. I need to check that. It might now be divided. Either way. But still, yeah, it's a handsome payout. But he's also out. Oh, okay. So just a little bit of a

bet out. Yeah, it's a sweetener for Mark Allen as he went out. A consolation prize. Yeah, he hit his 147 when he was like 9 -3 down or something. So pressure off and why not? That's for the weekend sporting news. We are recording too early to come across. We've got Liverpool potentially wrapping up the title tomorrow and the Arsenal ladies. taking on Lyon in Lyon, a goal down. So we'll see how that resolves itself. And, of course, the Red Roses and France Grand Slam decider

in the Women's Six Nations tomorrow. So fingers crossed for all our respective teams there. Absolutely. Do you want me to just summarise what we've got coming up on this bank holiday weekend that is approaching? I'm going to whistle -stop it because there is a lot. So we've got the Beach Soccer World Cup, which has started and is ongoing. That's coming up. We nearly did an episode on that. Maybe next year or next time. Exactly. We flared with that one. But we decided to go

in a different direction. The women's Vuelta in cycling starts, which is cool. Nice. Men's Champions League semi -finals in midweek, which is obviously Arsenal, PSG and Barcelona versus Inter Milan or Internacionali, I think as they prefer to be called. Nervous? Very. So stop talking to me about it. I'm trying to stay calm and not think about it. Premier League, as you've already mentioned, will be wrapped up in terms of relegation and title race by then in all probability. But

the top four is very fun. So that carries on. IPL continues. Gadrat, Delhi and RCB are all setting the pace at the halfway point or near halfway point. We have the Miami Grand Prix next weekend. There is a lot, isn't there? Mate, it gets worse. The Champions Cup semi -finals in Men's Rugby Union. Northampton Saints versus Leinster and Bordeaux versus Toulouse. The European Challenge Cup semi -finals in Men's Rugby Union. Lyon versus Racing 92 and Edinburgh versus Bath.

The Super Rugby season has kicked off and is approaching its halfway point with the Chiefs and the Crusaders leading the way. And you have the Super League season also. near enough at the halfway point in terms of regular domestic season games. Hull KR and Wigan setting the pace there. And you have the Diamond League in athletics in China, in Shanghai. So bank holiday weekend, just tuck in, basically. Tuck in. And that's

without even mentioning our main event. Yeah, I think we can safely say it's something for everyone this weekend. Yeah, exactly. If you're a sports lover. Yeah, including fans of horse racing, of course. What do we have this weekend, Ben? We have the first race of the American Triple Crown of horse racing from the Kentucky Derby. Kentucky Derby. We're going to do this all episode. You're going to call it the Derby because that's

what the Yanks call it. And I'm going to call it the Derby because it's named after the Epson

Derby. this is true uh it is uh it's a bit like last week me referring to football and soccer uh you've got to respect the uh the hosts of the particular event and that's that's all i'm doing ben but you go about it whichever way you want no you're right you are right um i just will slip into calling it the derby constantly because out of habit i'm also i'm also potentially going to go to tennessee later in the year to kentucky sorry later in the year and tennessee

and a few other places. So I feel like I have to be respectful for my future hosts and they will be making my food. So best to start now. They will be making my food. I love that. Yes. Okay. Well, Kentucky Derby then. Derby. I will try and get into the habit. But should we start with what the Triple Crown itself is? Because it's quite niche, actually, if you're not familiar with horse racing and particularly not familiar

with American horse racing. yeah so um i mean these are the three events that american horse racing revolves around essentially they're all grade one listed races uh can you tell us anything about what grade one listed means ben yeah i can you know i love a tangent into the technicalities the highest class of race in an american horse racing basically um it's difficult to summarize the classification process it's quite complex various criteria but the grade level is ultimately

really assigned by looking at data that indicates the quality of the field for the last five years and basically in order to i think in simple terms in order to achieve or maintain grade one status it's necessary to attract a competitive field for a number of years Obviously, they look at the data over the last five. But the longer you're doing it, obviously, the more likely you are to fulfill that criteria. They also have some very strict anti -doping requirements, which

we might flirt with in this episode. It'll get mentioned. Yeah, basically, it'll become pretty self -explanatory. But yeah, you have to meet

some anti -doping. uh regulations essentially in order to be grade one um and the decision is taken by the american grade stakes committee of the thoroughbred owners and breeders association which is an absolute mouthful um it is a mouthful but yeah many one grade one races a weight for age so uh that's weights adjusted only according to age and sex um obviously male or female horses and there are also some set weights um where all the horses are required to carry the same

weight Usually applicable when all the horses are of the same age and sex, which will become pretty relevant to our events that we're discussing today because they are all three -year -olds across all three of the Triple Crown races. And the Grade 1 races must have a purse of at least $300 ,000, but not all races with such a high

purse are Grade 1, if that makes sense. So if you have... a purse of over three hundred thousand dollars you can be grade one but just because you do doesn't make you a grade one there are i think yeah some other races that are more lucrative but i feel that i feel there's probably more races on the borderline than the kentucky derby the preakness stakes or the belmont stakes which are the free triple crown events i feel like these are comfortably grade one events and that

is not going to change anytime soon Yeah, and that's probably something to do with their longevity, their cultural significance, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. Go on. Like in the UK, horse racing is, obviously the horse racing in the UK goes back in organized terms to the 18th century. Obviously, America is a much newer country, but these are still old races. The Belmont Stakes is actually the oldest. It's still third of the three to be run of the Triple Crown events each year.

It was first run in 1867. Which is mad. which is very old, the Preakness Stakes following it in 1873. And then two years later in 1875, the first ever Kentucky Derby, which is, I would say, it feels to me the most famous and the most prestigious. But of course, winning the Triple Crown is the greatest thing you can do. So they are nothing without each other in this case. I'd agree with that, though. It's weird because it's the newest, but it's certainly internationally

the most reputable. yeah if you said kentucky derby i think most um armchair sports fans would know what it was i've heard of it yeah exactly but i wouldn't necessarily say the same is true of the belmont or the preakness no i wouldn't say so and it's certainly uh it's only really this year that i've even before we even started this podcast i just happened to have been reading a book or listening to a book because i don't read i only listen uh listening to a book on

on this um which is great horse racing mysteries which i can recommend by john mcavoy so uh that sort of turned me on to the subject matter and uh obviously it was only really then i really appreciated the preakness stakes and the belmont stakes i'd heard of them but didn't appreciate how big they were and how much history goes behind it so it is very it's a very fascinating event very fascinating history And boys are a lot of scandal and a lot of controversy in the past

of it as well, which we will get into. Yeah, I mean, it's a strange event, like how it came about as well, because like you say, the order in which the races emerged historically and then now the order in which they are run and the reputation that precedes each of the respective races. But I think it came about because basically thoroughbred owners began sending their successful Kentucky

Derby. race winners to yeah to compete in the others in the preakness that is and in the belmont and then because they were doing that there was just a consistency about it and it slowly turned into um what is known as the as the triple crown yeah but i like that i like it when things develop naturally and develop in a sporting manner like that the uh people realize naturally over time it is hard to win all three races And it didn't happen until 1919 was the first time it happened.

Sir Barton, the first horse to win all three races. But even then, it was 1930 before the phrase Triple Crown was really utilised as a phrase. When Gallant Fox became the second horse to win all three after Sir Barton. And sports writer Charles Hatton brought the phrase into

American usage there. So the races were going on for... what was that 60 years before uh they were sort of linked together so i i like that it's happened naturally and i like that it is again we said this previously about sports it's so rare you get a triple crown winner that it makes it special indeed we went 37 years until recently without one um so yeah no it's cool i think it's cool it is very cool and they're like um It's funny how these things sort of gather

pace, isn't it? Because you mentioned our sports writing friend, Charles Hatton, as if we know each other. But I think that was sort of like the first example, not a first example, but one of the first examples of media hype and public interest really playing a role in the emergence of what is now a well -known series of races.

Because I think there was basically... a lot of speculation and media hype around the possibility of a super horse that could win yeah all three races uh having um in the weeks leading up to the derby because uh yeah i don't think they necessarily run in the same order back then either but it probably got coined because of that because of people championing uh you know and hyping up a particular horse and then it happened and then it happened exactly yeah which is great

and then that captures um public interest for years to come and obviously we've said before about how We mentioned with the NFL last week, sports growing in the 1920s, 1930s. Baseball obviously took off there with the New York Yankees, particularly being the first sort of super team in American sport. It was because everyone had, at that point, a lot of people have radios in

their house and that is instantaneous news. Instead of having to pick it up the next day via newspapers, being able to listen to sportscasts coming through, live updates of a game going on hundreds, thousands of miles away. And yeah, this kind of jumped on that particular bandwagon and came at an opportune time, obviously 1930. Gallant Fox doing it and

the rest, as they say, is history. I mean, to say how these races were considered separate to one another prior to this, they were also, the Preakness was ran on the same day as the Derby on a couple of occasions. The Derby, sorry. So 1917, 1922, there was no way you could have

a triple crown. winner that year yeah exactly those two years rather um yeah those two years i think it was yeah was it before 31 it was 11 times the preakness was run before the derby and it was from basically after gallant's fox won it that's when they decided to like formalize the process and put it in the order in which it is now run i think yeah on the back of the the public interest essentially i can imagine so yeah There was no trophy for it either until

the 1950s. I think, in fact, 1950. That's when the trophy was commissioned. It was retrospectively awarded to the winners that had achieved the feat. Posthumously, I imagine, for the horses. Yeah, yeah. But there's been a trophy ever since 1950. Not that many people have won it because only 13 horses have ever won the Triple Crown. Most recently, Justify in 2018. And I really like the name of this horse, American Pharaoh. Yeah, it's a good name. In 2015. But as you said,

there hadn't been a Triple Crown winner. Between 2015 and 1978, which is the longest gap ever in the history of the Triple Crown, 37 years. Yeah. The 1970s were actually a very fruitful decade for Triple Crown winners. And they were kicked off by the legendary Secretariat in 1973.

who will almost certainly come up again because I don't think a horse has ever been more dominant probably no I think by any measure by the lengthy one by the statistical analysis that goes into horses incredible horse incredible yeah and we say that coming off the 1970s where you had Secretaria and then two more winners in the 1970s 37 years without a Triple Crown winner, it doesn't remove from the mystique of it. It adds the mystique, and then when American Pharoah finally did it,

it's global news when that happens. It's good. It shows how history builds onto individual events, which is essentially what we're trying to do with this podcast, give you the context for it, and then it makes when it happens seem all the more special. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, it's supposed to be hard, right? Yeah, it is. Well, it's incredibly hard. You only get one shot at it. I only get one shot because it's only three -year -old, so basically every horse only gets

one attempt at it in its career. And the races are over five weeks, and I'm not a horse racing expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that it's rare that you run a horse that regularly. Yeah. And they're sprints, essentially. I mean, the closest you can get to sprints in horse racing. They're over two -minute races, of course. The Kentucky Derby called the... What was it? The greatest two -minute sport. The greatest two -minute sport. There we go. I think it's

the greatest. I'll double -check that. It's a fair description either way. But yeah, you can get injuries. Obviously, the horse might not

be ready. uh to run in the first race which would completely scupper you but it could be ready to run in the you know in the belmont for example um there's a lot of variables which would mean the horse doesn't run uh in all in all three over such a short window there's a lot of traveling as well because these race courses yeah america's a big place and whilst these race courses might appear on a map to look as though they are near to one another they are not um that close to

one america is a very big country i can tell you that from personal experience yeah and i to illustrate just how difficult it is no philly or gelding has ever won the triple count only colts and if you want to know what that that means triple crown i do i do so the triple the triple crown is three -year -old thoroughbreds and a thoroughbred is a breed I had to look this

up, everybody. I'm not this good at horses. Thoroughbreds are effectively considered like hot -blooded horses that are known for their agility, speed, and spirit. They're basically the athletes of the horse racing world and the sprinters. And a colt is defined as an uncastrated male from the age of two up to and including the age of four, but obviously in this instance would all be three -year -olds. A gelding is a colt, but

castrated. And a filly... Which is, I should point out, that is usually done to control a very fiery animal. Yeah, a boisterous animal. To calm down a boisterous animal. But the trade -off of that is in the short sprint events, if you lose a bit of that fire, does it act as a disadvantage? So geldings have won individual events within the Triple Crown, but as Ben mentioned, they've never won all three. Exactly. Only colts. And a filly is a female horse under the age of

four. Yes. And fillies like Geldings, yes, like Geldings, have won individual events in the Triple Crown, but have never won the Triple Crown. Yes. Actually, the history behind how thoroughbreds came to be in America is kind of fun. I think the first thoroughbred horse that they believe to have entered the American colonies, as it was back then, was Buell Rock. He was imported in 1730 from England to America by a merchant mariner named James Patton. at the age of 21.

And Mr. James Patton. Yeah, here we go, man. Here we go. We're going five for five. He was distantly related to US General George S. Patton. So there you go. I think that's probably as close as I'm going to get to World War II in this episode. I'm not going into it. So we did it, though. We managed to squeeze it in somehow. But yeah, Buell Rock was a racehorse himself. And although a reasonably average one, he predominantly ran at York, which is where you're from in the 18th

century. Oh, there you go. Which is kind of fun. But he was followed to America by Messenger in 1788. Messenger didn't have a long racing career himself. He was a common ancestor. But the reason he's famous is he's a common ancestor of many successful racehorses that came to be in the 20th century. Mainly from standard breads rather than thoroughbreds though. But yeah, horse racing essentially can be sort of traced back to a handful

of horses. I think one of the most famous ones is Diomed, who is named after the ancient Greek hero Diomedes, which is kind of fun. Cool. Another great horse or great noble horse racing lineage moved to America in the late 18th century. It's considered one of the best colts ever seen in Britain in the 18th century and won the inaugural

Epson Derby. so we can say derby there yeah he then uh he basically became a stud uh and has had a significant impact on american racing um i think it started with his son sir archie um john f wall a racing historian said that sir archie was the first outstanding stallion that they can claim as a native american thoroughbred um And he was actually retired from the racetrack because of a lack of opponents. That's how good

he was. I mean, the history of breeding in thoroughbreds is, I mean, you have to be a bit of a nerd, but pretty fascinating to begin with. And you can trace ancestry back as you can with most pedigrees

and animals for an awful long way. and two common ancestors as well same as in British thoroughbred racing where you can trace it back essentially to three horses in the 17th century I believe which I imagine these will trace back to too because being thoroughbreds they're probably related to the same common ancestors but yeah if you're into that sort of thing genealogists throwing you a bone yeah it is very interesting well it's also relevant because you know we've

just lifted off like three or four horses there that came over from england but it's basically after the american revolution the center of thoroughbred breeding and therefore by extension racing in the united states just moved west um because it was obviously uh east in in the first instance because for obvious reasons it's just slowly move west and that's where the land is that's where the space is yeah and good conditions to race horses and as you'll probably find out on

your upcoming holiday kentucky and tennessee just basically became the epicenter of american horse breeding and racing you get give me this is giving me a lot of context for my upcoming holiday i'm actually quite excited by it my wife's gonna get annoyed with me saying oh What breed do you reckon that horse is? Do you reckon that's a thoroughbred? Well, they're massive and muscular,

so. Yeah, I'm sure I'll spot them. But yeah, I mean, obviously, and that's how you come full circle to effectively the Kentucky Derby is because, yeah, that became the very center of American horse racing after those particular horses were brought over. Fun little tangent. That's very interesting. Shall we start off with the Kentucky Derby then? A bit of information behind the jewel in the crown of the three races, as far as we're

concerned anyway. Yeah, might as well. It seems a sensible place to start chronologically, given that it's coming up. It's also this coming weekend, so yes, it makes sense. So yeah, as Ben mentioned, it's a Grade 1 stakes race run at Churchill Downs in Louisville, Kentucky, which I think I'm going

to. I'm excited about. it's 20 horses and they're all three -year -olds as mentioned uh which obviously means you can't win it twice it's only for three -year -olds um so in your three -year -old seasons that means if you're free on january the first i believe so some of them may technically be four years old but it's their three -year -old season and it's run over a distance of one and a quarter miles or 10 furlongs about 2000 meters So Colton Gilding's carry 126 pounds and Philly's

121 pounds. So it's a set weight they carry. Yeah, 57 kilos and 55 kilos if you prefer the metric system. Which, yeah, throw a bone to our Canadian listeners there. Some kilograms for you. I think Canada's actually the same in the UK. We just make it up as we go along. Pounds, stones, kilograms. Yeah, miles. We know it all.

yeah miles furlongs apparently i think we said earlier didn't we race was first run in 1875 yeah unlike the others um older races the triple crown in the triple crown rather it's been run every year since its inception it was twice rescheduled within the same year though first time during world war ii 1945 normally a good excuse Second time due to, as it's becoming a reoccurring theme with these. We should just say for the usual reasons, yes. COVID -19. Yeah. Rearranged, but

not cancelled. Yeah, exactly. Not cancelled. So it's gone every year. The Derby and the Oaks. The Oaks is the Derby, rather, a sister race. They're the oldest major sporting events in the US that have been held annually since their beginning. Nice. I think that's a pretty cool stat, actually.

That is a cool stat, yeah. And among Thoroughbred Stakes races, they are the oldest that have been held annually on the same track every year, because we won't go into all the nuances of it, but basically the Belmont and the Preakness have changed venue a few times. Nice. Yeah, which is kind of fun. Yeah, it's the most watched and most attended horse race in the United States, unsurprisingly. And it will be the 151st running, we hope, because we got that wrong before, on Saturday, 3rd of

May, 2025. Yeah. This coming Saturday. So a lot of history, steeped in history. And it came about after Colonel Meriwether Lewis Clark Jr., grandson of... Which is an incredibly famous name in American history. I mean, obviously, I know this is the grandson of, but Meriwether Lewis Clark. Junior is just an amalgamation of a couple of very famous people in American history. Lewis and Clark, specifically. Nice. Who are they? William Clark and Meriwether Lewis. I genuinely didn't know

that. I didn't know the Lewis and Clark connection. So Lewis and Clark were two explorers at the start of the 19th century as America was expanding. I think whoever the president was then, I want to say Thomas Jefferson, basically chartered them to explore the Missouri River and try and

find the continental divide. So they basically traveled down the Missouri River with their crew, I don't want to say crew, with their team on the expedition and discovered a whole load of America that had been... very minimally explored by Western people before, and in doing so, obviously met a lot of the native population along the way. Man, it's mad that you even knew that. I read a book on it. Oh, okay. It comes as no surprise to you, yeah. Yeah, I should have known. It's

a very interesting story. I would recommend anyone into their pure history delving into it. There's a very good book on it, which, again, I should have got information about. This is the book I... Yeah, but I blindsided you with the reference, mate, so... You did. You can't be criticized for not being prepared for that. Well, you didn't blindside me. You sent me the notes in advance. Well, nonetheless, I didn't expect you to necessarily have to hand your references for Missouri River

expeditions. Indeed. William Clark, so his grandson, this man who is named after an amalgamation of very famous Americans. Well, his grandson, he basically traveled to England in 1872 and he visited. Epson in Surrey, where the Derby had been running annually since 1780, as I think we previously mentioned on our national podcast episode. Indeed. From there, he went over to Paris in France. He met a group of racing enthusiasts who had formed the French Jockey Club in 1863.

They had organized a Grand Prix de Paris at Longchamp, which is also a very famous horse race. Yeah. greatest race in France, in fact, I think it is coined as. And when he returned home to Kentucky, inspired by his European adventure, he organized the Louisville Jockey Club to raise money for building quality racing facilities just outside

the city. And he was successful in raising that money, built a track, which would soon become known as the Churchill Downs, which was named after John and Henry Churchill, who provided the land for the racetrack. Fair enough. Yeah. That's the way these things go, isn't it, historically? And naming went officially. Sorry, the naming went official in 1937. So, yeah. That's pretty cool, though. Pretty cool link. I mean, the historical

links are everywhere, though. I mean, like the Kentucky Derby at its inception was a mile and a half. So the same distance as the Epson Derby, which makes sense because it was inspired by. or based upon, but it changed lengths in 1896 to its current distance of one and a quarter miles. I'm not really sure the reasons for that, but it doesn't really matter. We're talking the difference between a quarter of a mile. It's a sprint. Yeah. I've got a second World War II

reference, actually, to slip in here. Go on. And a reference to our personal favourite television series, probably ever, but certainly about the Second World War. The book was called Undaunted Courage by Stephen E. Ambrose. Stephen E. Ambrose also wrote the book Band of Brothers, of which the TV series is based. That is very cool. That's a nice little segue. I think that's probably why I read it, because I probably bounced off Band of Brothers straight onto it by him. But

yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting story, interesting book. We digress. We do digress, yeah. We like to digress, though. That's all part and parcel of it. Sorry, where did I get to? I was just giving a little bit of history, wasn't I? So May 17th, 1875 was the first Kentucky Derby. Ran in front of an estimated crowd of 10 ,000 people. I presume estimated because people probably weren't doing the turnstiles the way they do in this day and age. Often the case.

Yeah. A field of 15 three -year -old horses contested it. And a colt named Aristides won the inaugural derby, or derby as I should. Remind myself to say. Sounds like another Greek name, that. Yeah, yeah. It's a theme there, isn't there? He later also came second in the Belmont Stakes, but obviously the Triple Crown didn't exist back then. Wouldn't surprise me if the horse Aristides, sounding like Greek origin, probably was related to Diomed. I would bet on that, as we mentioned previously.

That would be cool, but I haven't done the family tree. See if I sound smart after this. It's rare that you don't. And it's been on the radio since 1925. It's been on TV since 1949. And it's been on national TV. It's been on national TV since 1952. So it's a pretty big deal. So big a deal, in fact, that the purse for the Derby is $5 million. Solid. Which is a decent amount of cash, but not as much as is bet on it. And this is, I think,

is absolutely insane. 210 million pounds a million dollars sorry which what does that work out probably about 170 million pounds somewhere around there yeah off the top of my head is bet on it or was bet on it uh in last year or its highest maybe its highest um probably probably go up this year yeah but i mean that's like it's a two minute race it is yeah absolutely wild but uh people like it and they're prepared to bet on it And like the Grand National, it's an institution,

it's cultural, so of course they do. It's probably exactly the same philosophy as over here, which is it doesn't really matter if you like horse racing. You watch the derby and you throw a couple

of quid on it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, as we mentioned in our episode on the National, there's people who don't probably even notice that horse racing exists the rest of the year who will tune in every... yeah as a family even perhaps to to watch the national and maybe even put a bet on it so yeah traditions yeah uh records interested in any always so the course record i think this is if we earlier on we touched on secretariat and we said that we were going to come back to

him and the reason we're going to come back to him is as we said he is just a ridiculous horse and i think this There is no statistic or record that better sums up how damn fast this horse was. Yeah. So the course record at the Kentucky Derby is held by Secretariat, the great Secretariat. Unsurprisingly. Yeah, who in 1973 posted a time of 1 minute 59 .4. He's like one of three horses to run sub two minutes. Secretariat in 1973.

Monarchos in 2001. And then this is so like, I don't know, I like this stat, but it also breaks my heart a little bit. And Sham, who finished second to Secretariat in 73, also ran sub two minutes. So basically would have won. Yeah, 1973 is probably the greatest. I mean, it is almost certainly the greatest event in history. You can obviously still see the footage of it. It's very, very fun. Yeah. It's incredible. Two incredible

horses, clearly. And you'd think that me just talking about the sub two minute finish is what I was talking about in terms of the statistic that's remarkable and illustrates Secretariat's dominance. And it isn't. The thing that's absolutely insane is that Secretariat did something that's unique and frankly crazy, not just in like horse racing terms, not just in terms of triple crown races, but like in terms of any kind of athletic performance. Secretariat ran each successive

quarter of the race faster than the last. So basically the horse ran negative splits. It got faster as the race went on, which anyone who knows anything about running just doesn't happen. That's incredible. To try and illustrate this point, if you're watching the 100 meters and you see someone pulling away at the end of the 100 meters, you could be forgiven for thinking that that person is accelerating away from the rest of the field. And in actual fact, what is

happening is they are decelerating slower. so so everybody else is slowing down quicker than the winner so then the winner pulls away and so running negative splits over like that distance in a sprint is just stupid it's crazy yeah what a horse and in terms of like if you were to try and translate into a race because using 100 meters there to illustrate that that performance um it's probably a bad one because the 100 meters are so short it's kind of like running negative

splits in the 800 meters like just getting faster and faster as the 800 meters goes on yeah which is like no one does right maybe people run the last 200 meters faster because they saved a bit for a kick but it's like speeding up in the 800 meters until the finish and the 800 meters is a barbaric event so yeah um people don't run negative splits probably a bad comparison really yeah it's just anyway i just love that stat i just think it's really really cool And I like,

I've noticed or I've realized this about me, Jack, which I don't think I really appreciate it before we start this podcast. I love horse racing because I love the horses. Like these statistics about the horses are just like, I don't know. It's so pure because the horse doesn't know what it's doing. It's just running for the love of the game. It's obviously trained to win an inch of its life and that's fine. Like, of course it is because it's an elite level animal

and athlete. It just isn't aware of that. But I just love the fact that they do these insane, remarkable things and they're not doing it for the accolades, the money or anything like that. They're just doing it because the horse loves running. So like when you see... No, I mean, it'd be hard to accuse a horse of having an ego. Exactly. Do you know what I mean? Like, oh man, I just, I think it's, I think it's really romantic.

I think it's really... It is, yeah. And I do understand why people love horses so much and the sport of horse racing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I know we've delved into the morality of it previously, but at its core, I don't think anyone could deny the beauty of it and the majesty of horse racing. Certainly of the animals themselves. Yeah, exactly. Maybe the treatment and all that stuff that goes around the edges. And there is plenty of that. Yeah. Historically, certainly.

And that's up for debate. And good, healthy debate is a positive thing because it enacts change, as we've said. But like, Jesus, man. Like, I love the horses. I think they're so cool. Anyway, I've gone very deep there. I guess to get us back on track, I should just tell you that the longest odds to ever win the derby are 91 to 1. Well, we're covered. Yeah. 1913 by, I think it's pronounced Donrail, but it could be getting that wrong. I'll take your word for it. Yeah.

And the second highest odds occurred in 2022 when Rich Strike, who if anyone hasn't seen Google, like Google, YouTube it, it's very fun. He went off at 80 to one and won the race. Yeah. Yeah. That's an incredible one. Yeah. It's got a load of traditions as well, like a lot of American sports, like we touched on with the Masters, for example. A lot of food and drink related traditions. Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? Which are some of the best traditions, if you ask me.

Yeah. Do you want to cover any of them? Any particular favorites or ones that you want to mention? Well, I didn't actually know this until we started doing this research, but the mint julep is a tradition associated with the event, which is... An ice drink consisting of bourbon, mint and sugar syrup. The traditional beverage of the race and I've actually had a mint julep before and they are very tasty. I was going to say that sounds nice. Yeah, sounds good. It's just very

refreshing. It is obviously quite a warm place, Kentucky, even in May. So I think a refreshing drink like that over some ice. Very nice indeed. You can see why it's popular. On a probably slightly less appropriate for hot weather, a burgoo. which is a fixed stew of beef, chicken, pork, and vegetables, which apparently is a popular Kentucky dish served at the Derby. Nice. There you go. That's a weird juxtaposition, though, in terms of drink to culinary

experience. It's not what I put together. I'm not sure the pairing is one I necessarily go for, but I'm not a culinary expert, so what do I know? Do you want to wash your stew down with

a bourbon? Have a nice mint julep. um yeah there you go maybe maybe there's uh maybe the two things are designed for different parts of the track maybe there's some uh the hoi polloi maybe like the stew sat in the the infield which is an area uh with virtually no view of the race and then there's the uh millionaire's row as they call it where perhaps there's more mint juleps going which is the seats uh along the finish line uh different parts of the track yeah nice well there's

a party isn't there in the infield i think there's a bit of a Like a shindig, so to speak. Oh, is that the infield? Yeah, I think so. But also... You can't actually see the race. No, yeah, well, exactly. It's like sort of probably because of... Just busy dancing and eating their stew. It's not unlike British horse racing, though. There's definitely parts of the race course you can go to where basically people are just getting pissed.

Most of Aintree, in my experience. uh what else what else do they like to do traditionally at the derby i think they they love a song they do yeah the famous um which we have heard already the call to the post played on bugle um and they actually have a a dedicated chap who attends every event and plays that called steve buttleman um as the horses parade before the grandstands he plays his call to the post on the bugle which you'd have heard at the beginning of this and

i think anyone who's heard any horse racing jingle probably recognizes uh call to the post oh nice and then they also play my old kentucky home i think nice a tradition that began in 1921 the university of louisville cardinal marching band plays that yeah my old kentucky home but we love a song over here don't we as well so we we can We're going to do the FA Cup final very shortly in a couple of weeks ahead of the two FA Cup finals, men's and women's. And we have our own

singing traditions there. So who are we to judge? Yeah, abide with me. Not that we're judging at all. We love it. We do love it. Yeah, we'll talk about abide with me. Obviously, they sing the national anthem. They're in America. But we do too before the FA Cup final. Yeah, but the FA Cup final. Oh, okay. So it's okay before the FA Cup. Oh, I see. Yeah. No, I meant that if you're in America, it doesn't matter. British

exceptionalism on show here. Oh, God, man. All I was trying to illustrate is that the Americans love their national anthem and will sing it at any given opportunity. I'm not criticizing. Well, half of us hate our national anthem but sing it anyway. That's the distinction I was touching upon. But yeah, anyway, I sounded perhaps a bit of a dick then. But yeah, all I really meant was America. Of course they sing the National Anthem. We're five episodes in. We're used to

you by now, Ben. Yeah, true. Flowers. Flowers? Yeah. It's very like the Masters, this. It is, actually. Drinks, food, flowers. Yeah, a lot of similarities. Traditional traditions. Although they don't sing the National Anthem at the Masters, so I've just disproved my own theory. I bet they do at some point. Yeah, that's true. But as we found out with the Masters, the people who run Augusta National consider themselves above the president anyway. So maybe they consider themselves

above the country too. I was going to say, I think they consider themselves historically above everyone. Although, you know, to their credit, they are evolving. Slowly. Yeah. So flowers. A rose blanket is awarded to the Kentucky Derby winner. A lush blanket of 554 red roses. Precisely, 554. Yeah, I think so. I think that's a thing. Started in 1896, but they think it originated from 1883 when a socialite presented ladies at

the post -Darby party with roses. And somehow that transitioned into draping the horse in them. So there we are. And there's a traditional command. From the paddock judge for the jockeys to mount their horses in advance of the upcoming race. Do you want to recite it? I think it was in the intro. Bear with me. I was clicking on my other notes. Riders up, I believe, is a traditional command from the paddock judge for jockeys to mount their horses in advance of the upcoming

race. See how slick and smooth and professional we are as a duo. Well, you know, we fly by the seat of our pants. It is. Since 2012, at least, the Grand Marshal recites this, which is another tradition. So we've seamlessly transitioned there. See, we are becoming better at this. It's been very seamless so far, this. Yeah. And the Grand Marshal is just a celebrity, for want of a better phrase. Oh, cool. I'm sure we could find out who have been Grand Marshals in the past if we

wanted to. But it's just basically a bit like the first pitch in baseball. You just come out. You say, riders up. Jockeys get on their horses.

yeah that's fun and the whole thing is part of the kentucky derby festival nice yeah they have like a build -up basically to the race as you might imagine uh it's quite long i think it lasts about a week no sorry i think i'm i'm just correcting myself the festivities start in earnest two weeks before the derby so there's a real build -up considering it's a two -minute race uh and i think this is fun they have an air show called the thunder over louisville uh where there's

basically an air show and fireworks display which is good oh very nice yeah so it's pretty cool a lot going on at the derby i mean did is it worth touching on the stadium i think quickly i mean it's a it's a big old stadium 170 000 people uh most most significant feature is the oval it is a dirt track um on which the derby and all the other triple events are all run on dirt as opposed to grass so anyone watching in the uk will find it very unfamiliar um it will

look very different not being on a lush green thick muddy grass um yeah it's on dirt but that is obviously still very affected by the weather and by the uh ambient conditions as well as to how heavy that is and how easy it is to run on that's pretty cool um it's got quite a lot of distinctive features um Clubhouse now has a 36 foot or 11 meters again for the metric lovers out there. There you go. Mural depicting all

jockeys to have won the Kentucky Derby. It also has another mural depicting all of the trainers. Updates are done yearly to accommodate obviously new winners and trainers, jockeys, et cetera. But the most famous feature of it is the stadium is probably, or the race course rather, is the famous Twin Spire Grandstand. which was built back in 1895. Very nice. Yeah, it's very cool. 20 years after the course opened. But obviously, you know, modernity, is that the right word?

I don't know. I think you can think of other words for it, but we'll call it modernity. Always gets in the way. They obviously just built a shitload of modern luxury suites in 2008, which

effectively blocked the view. yay for capitalism yeah exactly block the view of the famous spires from most parts of the ground but obviously you can still it's still like the feature front of the stadium I think it's near the main entranceway etc etc yeah and that's despite the fact that Churchill Downs has been designated a national historic landmark since 1986 in america um which i think tells you a lot about america in many ways yeah about their priorities well definitely

but i also you know i love these tangents and i i looked up what a national historic landmark is uh in america of course he did naturally yeah it's a building district object site or structure that is officially recognized by the united states government for his outstanding historical significance They are abbreviated, as you might imagine, to NHLs, and they are designated by the United States Secretary of the Interior because they are sites where events of national historical significance

have occurred, places where prominent persons lived or worked, icons of ideals that shaped the nation, outstanding examples of design and construction, places characterizing a way of life, or archaeological sites. Able to yield information. Interesting. Yeah. It's definitely not that. No. I'm actually sort of, I guess it's probably an, I don't know, an outstanding example of design or construction or site where events of national historical significance occurred.

Yeah. Places characterizing a way of life, maybe. Yeah. Would add a stretch. But it's like, you

know, it's a pretty big deal. I mean, other examples of NHLs are... the new york stock exchange brooklyn bridge empire state building um so yeah like around central station yeah and other places presumably outside of new york city yeah yeah like they're all over the place but i think new york's got high density of them um i imagine so yeah washington dc probably will as well um probably yeah plenty there but yeah it's a it's a big deal so obviously it also gives you a little

you know um insight into like you said about america being a relatively new country um but yeah whatever we're the crucible is a is a graded building here so we can't really no i think everything everything we've listed so far is prettier than the crucible yeah it's all about the history exactly so i mean we should probably shut our mouths um yeah notable events in the stadium's history though uh i think this is a I think this is a pretty cool story, actually, given the period

of time in which it happened. On June 5th, 1907, African -American jockey James Lee set a record that has never been beaten, and he won the entire six -race card at Churchill Downs, which is fun. Yeah, as you say, very impressive at any time in American history, especially impressive in 1907, where it was not easy to be an African -American man anywhere in the United States, let alone in Kentucky. Yeah. But in more recent history, the stadium got hit by a tornado, which

is pretty weird. That's interesting. Yeah. Well, I say the stadium got hit by, I think it was the stables, which is obviously, you know, important given that's where all the horses live. And they had to move 200 horses out to evacuate them and relocate them elsewhere. But the tornado didn't cause any damage to the twin spires or the clubhouse. So, you know, we carry on. Yeah, exactly. I mean, yes. Not uncommon in that part of the world. Well, that's all the key features of the derby.

But, I mean, we love a story. We do love a story. And I do actually have some stories. I don't know how many of these we'll be able to fit in. But I think we'll try and fit a few stories in. I've got some good stories. Yeah, go for it. We've got time. We've got time. We've always got time. So I'll go back in time. I think I'll start with the most recent one and work my way backwards in time with these. So we'll start

in 2008. So this is 31 years. No, sorry, 30 years this will be after the last horse to win the Triple Crown. So as we mentioned, it was 37 years in between Triple Crown winners, which might be a bit of a spoiler for how this story ends. But this is a horse called Big Brown. And in 2008 Kentucky Derby, he cruised, roared past the leaders at the turn and pulled away with ease to win by nearly five lengths, which obviously got the attention of the nation. Great name as

well, by the way. We're talking about tragedy that happens. That was a derby that was marred by tragedy. Second place finish at eight bells, collapsed after the finish and was unfortunately euthanized on track. So he cast a shadow of the day and just to... Just to point out, this is, while there aren't any fences, it's still a dangerous race. But the Preakness was next, and at Pimlico, at Pimlico, Big Brown was 1 -5. He was a favourite. He was expected to win. He had to win. And he

did win, in breathtaking style. Sat just off the leaders, and then unleashed his signature move. Draw -dropping burst that left the field gasping behind him. The dream was alive. One race left. The Belmont Stakes. The race of champions. his chance to end 30 years of hurt. And with, obviously, as you can imagine, the eyes of a nation upon him. But then the cracks began to show, unfortunately, quite literally in this case, when a three -inch quarter crack reappeared

on Big Brown's hoof. Same kind of injury that sidelined him before. His trainer described it, his trainer, Rick Dottereau, described it as a little hiccup. And the hoof was stitched, patched and bandaged, stainless steel wire and fiberglass implanted. And he was expected to still run. but he missed critical days training. He fought through the heat. He fought the deep, tiring

track at Belmont, and he ran. He broke cleanly through, but his jockey, a man called Desormo, fought for control, pulling rank and pulling hard against the bit. Going into the first turn, he bumped another horse, not once, but twice. And down the backstress, he seemed unsettled, sweating more than usual. His ears were pinned back. And then, shockingly, around the far turn, his jockey pulled him up. He had nothing left.

He was eased. He was pulled up. I don't know whether the jockey had in mind the horse had lost his life earlier, but regardless, it was the right thing to do. It was a controversial thing to do. A veteran horseman named Billy Turner, who trained Seattle slew, said bluntly, if DeSormo had pulled up a horse like that in my day, the stewards would have run him out of state. And Steve Haskins said, no one will ever know for sure why a horse that personified perfection.

suddenly came apart at the seams uh so yeah big brown at that point undefeated champion had fallen um so that was the closest uh anyone who got in 30 years to winning the wall and uh heartbreak just to just to tell you what the race can do from a sporting sense yeah yeah that's my first story that's like i like it i like the story i um i also like the jockey because Yes, it was the right decision. He put the horse's welfare above everything else, and that's the most important

thing. I was actually thinking as you were telling it, should he even be running in the third race? But I guess the Triple Crown is so coveted and so rare, it would be a brave man to just not enter when you've won two in a row. Yeah. But that's the pressure of money and prestige, isn't it? Yeah, you can repair a hoof like they did,

obviously. desire for him to run was there it probably would have caused a the bookies to have to refund a lot if it was a late decision to pull him out um nevertheless the right decision was made in the end and yeah just missed out but still still still cool story won the derby yeah won the preakness and the preakness exactly and many horses are yeah there's been a lot of horses i think somewhere in the 20s we've won two out of the three events, but haven't been

able to bring it home. And it is often the Belmont that is the undoer of horses. It is a bit longer than the other two. It's a slightly different challenge, but yeah, this was one of those cases. Yeah, yeah. That's a good story, though. I like that. Good name as well. Yeah. Big Brown. Got any others? I think he was named after a US Postal Service parcel. I think they have a standard parcel called a Big Brown. I might be wrong on

that, but I'm sure I read that somewhere. a good reason to name him um yeah yeah i've got i've got other stories um so this is we're getting on to conspiracy theory side of things now and a little bit of gambling math this is fun let's go let's hear it a bit of yeah so this is the 1994 kentucky derby and the story of holy bull so holy bull wasn't just good heading into the derby he was an absolute phenomenon as a three -year -old he'd won eight out of his ten starts

that year Five of them at grade one level. He had raw numbers which were off the charts. And he had out -dueled some very good horses to win the Hodgson Stakes early in the year. Florida Derby blew away the field by six lengths with the fastest time since Alidar in 1978. Alidar being a Triple Crown winner. So going into the last Triple Crown winner before this 37 -year stretch. Going into the Kentucky Derby, Holy

Bull wasn't just a favourite. He looked like a sure thing for the Triple Crown, let alone just the Derby. But then, disaster. So the Derby track was sloppy that day, but even to account for that, Holy Bull's performance was inexplicable. He broke poorly, he ran listlessly, and he staggered home 12th in the end. His trainer, Jimmy Crowell, was adamant something was wrong. He believed Holy Bull had been drugged before the race. The horse, Crowell said, was unusually lethargic

even before entering the gate. And afterwards, Holy Bull was treated with antibiotics for possible infection, but no clear cause was ever found. And crucially, no blood samples were taken immediately after the derby, meaning if something had been done to him, there's no way to prove it. Hence, conspiracy theories. Sabotage. Yeah, rumors quickly spread that if Holy Bull had been sabotaged, it wasn't just about revenge or sabotage or trying to give another horse the best chance of winning.

They did some maths and worked out that it created... artificially created what is known as a dutch book so a dutch book in gambling in simple terms is a situation where the odds are so badly set that you could place bets on every outcome and guarantee a profit so it would be like if you've got uh let's say there's a two horse race and both horses are rated three to one you bet on both of them you will get make a profit in that situation so That's obviously not something the

bookmaker is ever going to do and they work hard to make sure this doesn't happen. However, if you end up with a horse who is such a favourite over any other horse and then you take him out of the race, essentially, the other horse's long odds would allow you to bet on multiple other horses and still give yourself a good chance of making a profit, if that makes sense. You take out the horse with odds on and then you're

left with horses with long odds. you could book on bet on several of them and guarantee yourself or close to guarantee yourself a good outcome so that's what they reckoned well that was what the rumors are happened um the overwhelming favorite was going to run badly not because of the conditions not because of random chance but just make sure of it and you can turn the whole betting market upside down as a result public would keep pouring money into holy bull keeping the odds inflated

for everyone else. Meanwhile, you could quickly spread your bets across all the other horses, exploit the inside information that you had created, and take advantage of the bad odds of the other horses. Drug the favourite, keep it quiet, bet the field, and cash in. Completely illegal. Nearly impossible to prove after the fact, especially if a blood test isn't taken. But here's the thing. Here's the kicker, I should say. Holy Bull didn't

just fade away after the derby. He roared back in the Metropolitan Handicap, beating all the champions by over five lengths. He crushed the Dwyer Stakes. He conquered the Haskell, outclassed the Field and the Travers, and finished the season by dominating the Woodward Stakes. At the end of 1994, Holy Bull was named Horse of the Year, receiving 241 out of 245 votes, with mind -blowing average speed figures. He wasn't just good, he was historic, other than the fact he didn't bring

it home in the derby. So yeah, looking back on that, it makes the derby stand out even more sharply. A one -off single race, the biggest race of the season, sandwiched between so much success and creating such a beneficial situation for bettors, potentially, or for betting markets. Remind me, when did you say this happened again? This was 1994. 1994. I was wondering if it was in the sweet spot of the American mafia. Because that has got... Yeah, that stinks, basically.

It's very smelly, that one, isn't it? Now, we love a conspiracy theory, and I'm not saying for one second there's any actual evidence backing this up. But you look at the facts, and you look at the setup, and you look at the scenario, I can see a scenario where this would be very beneficial for certain people. And that's what makes a good conspiracy theory. And a good thing to discuss,

even if there is, of course. absolutely no proof to back it up you're i mean you can draw a pretty strong inference there i think that maybe the horse didn't have a bad day yeah i mean as as i think the one line in that which um potentially would be a logical explanation as i said he was treated with antibiotics potentially for an infection afterwards so but then again maybe it was symptoms showing up strangely wouldn't want to speculate no Yeah, well, let's just leave it to others

to determine whether they think that it's an awfully conveniently timed infection. Dear viewers, we will leave it for you to make your own conclusions here. Yeah. It's funny as well, because you know you mentioned Aladar in there, in that story. Aladar, yeah. Yeah, I had a... Which is a great name as well. It is a great name. I have a... You just remind me of a little statistic I'd come across. He is the only horse to have finished

second in all three races. Oh, really? Yeah, he was defeated each time by Affirmed in 1978. Oh, of course, no. Sorry, it's Aladar and Affirmed. I was wrong when I said he won the Triple Crown. I have made a silly error. It was Affirmed. That was an incredible series of races, yeah. Sorry, yeah, so Aladar was... He came second in all three, which is insane to Affirmed. And his combined losing margin over all three races was two lengths. Yeah. And most of that was the Kentucky Derby.

Like one and a half lengths of that was Kentucky Derby. I'm ashamed of myself for getting Affirmed and Harry Darby mixed up. Yes. Punish myself for that. Self -flagellation. Yeah, literally. It hasn't ruined the story though, mate. The story was all about whether or not they would open up horses. Yeah, it still makes the fact that this horse outran him statistically impressive because Ali Doll was clearly a Triple Crown winning worthy horse even if he didn't win any of them

incredibly. Yeah, which is really cool. I could have done a story on that alone. Anyway, I've got more stories if you want them. Oh, mate, more than merrier. You know I'm partial to historical stories. So, yeah, fire off. We've had heartbreak. We've had conspiracy theory. Are we ready for some, well, technically more conspiracy theories, but around a time that America was, let's just say, one of the most interesting years. eventful

years in American history is 1968. So 1968 was a year of assassinations, riots, protests, upheaval. There was a country teetering on the edge, cities burning, people bitterly divided. The Vietnam War was raging abroad, taking thousands of young American lives each month. At home, the civil rights movement was at its boiling point, struggling not only for equality, but for survival against growing backlash. Trust in political leaders was crumbling on every side. Hope itself seemed

a fragile thing. Kentucky and Louisville in particular felt these tremors keenly. The Louisville itself had a relatively progressive streak compared to other southern cities. It was still deeply tied to the traditions of the old south. Segregation, though technically outlawed, lingered in practice. In 1968, Rachel's tension simmered under the

surface of Kentucky society. Flaring into the open whenever the national spotlight turned towards race relations, the memory of Louisville's own racial protests and school integration battles were still very fresh in people's minds. People were nervous, defensive and fiercely protective of the cultural institutions represented the old ways, not more so than the Kentucky Derby, the crown jewel of the state's identity. And then a month before the Derby, America suffered.

one of the most profound tragedies in its existence. The assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Assassinated in Memphis, Tennessee on April the 4th. His death sending shockwaves throughout the country, understandably throughout the world. Grief of... Grief turned to rage. More than 100 American cities erupted into riots. Washington DC, Chicago, Baltimore among the hardest hit. Louisville too. Store streets filled with protesters. Christ for justice. Sometimes meeting tear gas

and police batons. Downtown businesses boarded up their windows. Tensions between black and white citizens ran dangerously high and the scars of April bled through into the atmosphere of early May and the Derby. Mate, you've set this up so I want to know what the fuck happened at this race. That is some context. So what the fuck happened at this derby? So a man named Peter Fuller was a owner of a horse named Dancer's Image. Dancer's Image arrived at Churchill Downs

among the favourites. Peter Fuller had publicly donated the horse's winnings from a recent race to Coretta Scott King. the widow of Dr. Martin Luther King. And that meant a gesture of support for the civil rights movement and to support, obviously, a grieving widow. But in Kentucky, where many viewed the civil rights cause with suspicion or hostility, as mentioned, Fuller's politics was seen as potentially an insult, a challenge to the traditions that the Derby and

its elite circles proudly upheld. Fuller's gesture, however noble, had already made him an outsider at Churchill's Down before the starting bell even rang. The race itself should have been a fairy tale for Fuller. Dancer's image broke poorly out the gate, falling dead last almost immediately, but showing remarkable resilience. The grey colt

fought back through the field. The crowd roared as he surged past the favourite forward pass at the eighth pole and drove home to a stunning come -from -behind victory, only the fifth time in the Derby history that a horse had gone from last to first. In any other year, the performance would have been immortalised in gold. Instead... The victory was almost immediately clouded in

suspicion. Within days, officials announced that Dancer's image, for the first time ever, first time this had ever happened to a derby winner, had failed his post -race urinalysis, testing positive for phenylbutazone, a common anti -inflammatory drug that was banned at the time in Kentucky racing, or was banned during meets. It was okay in between meets, I believe. Churchill Downs officials swiftly disqualified Dancer's image, stripped fuller of his trophy, and awarded the

winter forward pass. Fuller protested furiously, insisting that the drug could not have been in Dancer's Image's system unless someone had tampered with the horse or the sample after the race. Many believed him, or at least believed that his political statements made him a target in a year when America's anger could boil over into any aspect of public life, even horse racing.

The idea of sabotage, once unthinkable, seemed chillingly plausible in a world where assassinations, bombings and betrayals filled the headlines. Fuller's legal battle, which cost him $250 ,000. To overturn the disqualification, dragged on for years, but was eventually unsuccessful. The decision stood and the dream was dead. For more than 50 years, Dante's image remained the only Kentucky Derby winner disqualified after the

race. 2019, maximum security crossed the line first, but was disqualified within minutes for interference, handing the win to Country House. Nevertheless, again, another one. Make your own mind up about that. That stinks of absolute shit.

like that that feels like it's smelly it's too it's too convenient you know like it's i mean the timing yeah yeah and also like i don't know come from an answer yeah i don't know i don't know that that just that that yeah in the context which you so eloquently described as well that is um that's rancid I would be inclined to give our protagonist the benefit of the doubt there and lean heavily in favor of a conclusion that suggests that he's been royally fucked over.

But yeah, that is a very good story. That was very interesting. Yeah. Got any uplifting ones? I have another story. Yeah, but is it a nice one? I have another story, Ben. Yeah, okay. Don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to. You should know that more than anyone. Oh, no. Okay, go on. One more. Let's hear it. This is the final story. I want a romantic one. We're going... Well, I mean, you could say there's romance in this. It involves a married couple.

Is it an underdog? We're going back... We're going back to the 1950s. Actually, to be honest, on a sporting sense, this is a very good story. We're going back to the 1950s here. So it was a time when horse racing, it was more than just a sport. It was the heartbeat of society, obviously. There was kings, there was moguls, all barons, bluebloods, all spending fortunes for a shot of glory beneath the twin spires of Churchill

Downs. And no name was more envied than that of William Woodward Jr., who was heir to the Bel -Air stud dynasty. The Woodwards didn't just own racehorses. They bred them like Renaissance artists, shaping marble, crafting champions like Gallant Fox, previously mentioned, Omaha, and at this point in time, a new horse called Nashua. Nashua was bred for greatness. From the moment he hit the ground in 1952, everything about him

spoke of destiny. Trained by the legendary Sonny Jim Fitzsimmons, who had already shepherded two Triple Crown winners, and ridden by Eddie Arcaro, a master tactician who was... I believe the most successful jockey, I think the only jockey to have ridden multiple Triple Crown winners. Oh, can I jump in there quickly? Eddie Alcara, now that you've mentioned him, he's obviously in the American Thoroughbred Horse Racing Hall of

Fame. He has won more American Classic races than any other jockey in history and is the only rider to have won the US Triple Crown twice. He's regarded as one of the greatest jockeys in American history. So, yeah, sorry. Eddie Alcara, there you go. Yeah, very famous, very successful jockey. So this horse was obviously highly rated for the Kentucky Derby that year. But out of the dust and the heat of California came a horse called Swops, who was nicknamed the California

Comet, which is a great nickname. So Swops was everything Nashua wasn't. Where Nashua was polished, Scraps was raw. Nashua was a very well -bred horse. well -chiseled horse, whereas Swaps came out of a bit more of a rough background. Well, I say a rough background, it makes it sound like he grew up on the streets. But his owner, Rex Ellworth, wasn't society stock. He was someone who built a career out of... He turned a patch of the desert into a racing empire and had brought

this horse, Swaps, to the table. So the two colts met head -to -head in the 1955 Kentucky Derby. But it wasn't Nashua who crossed the line first. It was Swaps leading a lot of people on the East Coast stunned. Nashua would then regroup and would win the Preakness and win the Belmont as well. But the sting of Derby defeat and missing out on the Triple Crown gnawed at the Woodwoods like acid. Was Swaps truly the better horse or had fate intervened on that day in Louisville?

There was only one way to settle it, Ben. A race. Nice. A one -on -one match race between the two horses. Horse against horse. No excuses and no second chances. August the 31st, 1955 at Washington Park Racetrack in Chicago. 35 ,000 people pressed shoulder to shoulder beneath the summer sun. Millions more leaning into their radios, hanging on to every word. East versus West. Aristocracy versus ambition. The American dream. Rags to riches. Maybe not quite that, but you've got

to build a story, haven't you? Yeah, I was going to say, no one's coming from rags in horse racing. But yeah, carry on. The start was clean anyway. Nashua sees the early lead. Swaps try to keep close, but Nashua is relentless. Arcaro later said, I knew from the first turn he wasn't coming. We had him. In the end, Nashua pulled away with mechanical efficiency, crossing the wire six and a half lengths in front. Victory belonged

to Nashua and to the Woodwoods. So yeah, for a brief glittering moment, it seemed the Woodward's place atop society was not just restored, but it was immortalized forever. Then came the night of October the 30th, 1955, Ben, where our story takes something of a sinister turn. At their mansion in Oyster Bay, Long Island, a palatial estate fit for kings, Billy and Anne Woodward returned from a society dinner. So Anne Woodward had come from a humble background. She was of

Midwest stock. She was... Not from anything like an elite family, but she was a very, very beautiful woman. She'd moved to New York and found a place in society and eventually found her husband, Billy, there. Billy's mother disapproved of their marriage, thinking they weren't of the same stock, as it were. But nevertheless, they were married. The marriage was a tumultuous one. There was rumors of affairs on both sides throughout the marriage. On this night, October 30th, 1955,

shortly after midnight, a shot rang out. And Billy Woodward, the heir to the Bel -Air dynasty, one of the biggest horse racing studs in America, was dead. And the shooter was his wife, Anne. She would claim, and the Nassau County Grand Jury would agree, that she mistook him for a prowler. The whispers soon blossomed like poisonous flowers for our society pages. What's a prowler? Like a stalker? A prowler, as in someone who'd come onto their property and therefore deserve

to be shot. Ah, in true American style. Classic castle doctrine standards, yeah. So, whispers bloomed across society pages and was a social climber from Kansas. whose marriage to Billy was cold and bitter, that Billy was preparing to divorce her, that divorce would cut Anne off from her wealth, the status, the life she built, and ultimately the shooting would be no accident at all. These were the rumours that circled around. The Woodward family themselves of elite aristocracy

by American standards. They circled their wagons. Billy's former mother, Elsie Woodward, who, as I mentioned, was very much against the marriage originally, wielded her influence like a broadsword, ensuring that while no charges were filed, that Anne's place in society was done with, preventing scandal from coming across her family, but ensuring that Anne would no longer be part of anything

resembling society. So she became a pariah, shunned by the society that once embraced her, She fled to Europe, living a half -life relatively compared to her old life amongst villas and boulevards of the Riviera. She famously cultivated affairs with younger men, but she never remarried. And in 1975, Truman Capote, another darling of high society and a man who knew where all the bodies were buried, if you believe certain people, published a very thinly veiled story in Esquire magazine.

Capote depicted a character named Anne Hopkins, very clearly based on Anne Woodward, as a cold -blooded murderer. The exposure was brutal, humiliating, and for Anne, apparently, too much for her to bear. Because on October 10th, 1975, Anne Woodward was found dead in her Fifth Avenue apartment, the victim of a deliberate drug overdose. Her funeral was described as sparsely attended. Society, it seemed, had finally exacted its revenge upon her. A tragedy didn't end there for the family,

unfortunately. Less than a year later, James Woodward, who was her son and a Vietnam veteran himself, haunted by addiction and grief, jumped to his death out of a hotel window overlooking Central Park. He was just 29 years old. And a few decades later, the final Woodward heir, William Woody Woodward III, followed the same dark path as his brother, leaping from a 14 -floor kitchen window in Manhattan in 1999. Leaving behind a wife, a daughter, and unanswered questions that

have haunted his family for generations. Such as, did Anne Woodward really kill Billy in a tragic accident? Or was it something darker, covered up to protect the family name? And resulting in Anne being shunned as a result. So, journalist Susan Brody spent years investigating the case. She interviewed more than a thousand sources, combed through decades of police records, and her conclusion was that Anne Woodward had likely

killed Billy by mistake. At the time, there was warnings, reports of prowlers in the area, and there was in fact a man who later said that he was casing up the joint and may well have been on that night because he heard a gunshot and

ran. So they may well have heard someone. uh genuinely uh invading their property and may have reached for the shotgun and as so often tragically happens in these circumstances saw a shadow in a dark corner of the room thought her husband was beside her pulled the trigger and before it was too late uh tragedy had struck so the myth was and meant to kill her husband to avoid disgrace to avoid divorce uh proved more durable than any mere fact as truman compote

himself once said all literature is gossip And in this case, gossip wrote a tragic chapter. Jesus. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like the Prestorius defense to me. Oh, we will do an episode on that at some point, won't we? My word. But yeah, I mean, the answer to that question, the answer

to that night for me, Jack, is more guns. if there had been more guns then i think this whole tragedy could have been avoided uh that seems a completely logical uh conclusion to reach should we point out to anyone wondering otherwise that sarcasm might be a play here oh yeah i mean like i couldn't be more anti -gun if i tried but um yeah but yeah that's i mean it's pretty wild how all of this stuff can just emerge from you know a couple of horse races just set the world

on a yeah particular path that is that's quite an intense story that one yeah it's good though isn't it it is good it's very good yeah um that's what you get though with these events so they you know they're so they're so long lasting and they're so established that you know really fascinating stuff does emerge from i honestly um as as the book i mentioned before this is my the the sort of subject matter that i took this from which was Great Horse Racing Mysteries by John McAvoy.

The audio version is very well read. I would recommend it, but I am just scraping the surface, honestly. Not all of them are about the Triple Crown events, but it's an American book. Most of them are about the Triple Crown events, and honestly, the stories, the tragedies, the rumors, the conspiracy theories, yeah. Yeah, well, I can imagine. When money is involved, when the mob is involved, when shady figures are involved, when gambling is involved, and when there's a

lot at stake. Either bad things can happen, or if not, then if bad things do happen, where there is no clear cause, rumours will come of it very quickly. Yeah, for sure. There's a lot of stories. I will probably, I mean, we'll almost certainly

rehearse more of them. as we come around to these events in the calendar year uh yeah we would love to tell every story in every in every episode but it's just simply not possible because um they are so rife um but and yeah yeah and as i learned last week a two -hour episode takes a very long time to edit yeah well we're learning our lessons as we go and apologies to anyone who was listening to last episode i completely ballsed up my um microphone which is why it sounds

a bit odd um so i sold jack down the river there but in your in your defense um it was the first time we recorded in person and when you record in person you don't wear a headset yeah and so i can't get immediate feedback on how ben sounds in that circumstance so never mind there you go lesson learned lesson learned uh yeah i mean we've done we've done quite a lot here but one thing we haven't done We've continuously mentioned the Preakness and the Belmont, but we haven't

really explained anything about them. I think we can quickly. Just a quick overview and then we'll... Wrap it up. We'll bid everyone and each other good day. Yeah. Do you want to do the Preakness? Yeah, so the Preakness. I mentioned this. There's Pimlico Racecourse, which I might pronounce terribly the first time I said it, even though it's a word very associated with... the United Kingdom. It's a Pimlico race course in Baltimore, Maryland. The middle jewel of the Triple Crown and the

run for the Black -Eyed Susans. The Black -Eyed Susan is the Maryland state flower and the winner, like the Kentucky Derby, is adored with a blanket of flowers. In this instance, flowers which look like Black -Eyed Susans, but I do believe they're not actually Black -Eyed Susans. They are not. Black -Eyed Susans don't come into season until later in the year. Yeah, they bloom two months after the race, I think. But nevertheless, adorned in flowers that look like Black Eyed Susans,

which I think is enough. So they also have an infield fest, a party, fancy hats, official cocktail called the Black Eyed Susan, made with vodka, Saint -Germain liqueur and pineapple, lime and orange juices, which again sounds quite pleasant to be fair. That does. I'd have one of them. I do love a cocktail. Nothing wrong with that. So they used to sing the third verse of Maryland, My Maryland, which is the official state song, you would be surprised to learn, of Maryland.

accompanied by a marching band. But the song celebrates the Confederacy and was discontinued in 2020 due to the racial conversations, which, yeah, I can believe that. The Black -Eyed Susan is, of course, a tradition, but no Black -Eyed Susan is ever used. They don't bloom until two months later. So similar flowers are used and historically would dye black as well, I believe.

Yeah, they are, yeah. And as soon as the Preakness winner has been declared official, a painter climbs a ladder to the top of a replica of the old clubhouse Coppola. The colours of the victorious winner's silks are applied to the jockey and horse that are part of the weather vane atop the infield structure. Mate, I love that tradition. I think that's my favourite tradition that we've come across. It's like if anybody's familiar with Lords, there's a very famous, you know,

wind. dial thing at the top of the weather vane thing at the top of uh the the um pavilion there as well and it doesn't get painted um but i just like the idea of it being painted i think that's cool presumably that lasts a year until the following year where it's replaced exactly where weather itself probably wears the paint away so yeah cool And the original Woodlawn Vase trophy is kept at the Baltimore Museum of Art and brought to the race each year under guard for the winner's

presentation. The winner does not keep it, receives a replica, and then the trophy goes back to the museum for the rest of the year. And it may surprise you to learn the Preakness Stakes record is held by Secretariat. There you go. There's the Preakness. The Preakness. And so if you've managed to win the Derby and the Preakness, then you go to Belmont with an opportunity of winning the Triple Crown,

as you may now have probably guessed. Usually held on the first or second Saturday in June, five weeks after the Kentucky Derby, three weeks after the Preakness. Run at Belmont Park in Elmont, New York. That was a course opened in 1905, but I won't bore everyone with the particulars, but essentially the Belmont's moved a few times. It's predominantly run at Belmont Park, and I think it's actually being renovated. So it will be held somewhere else this year and was last

year. I think it goes back to Belmont Park in 2026. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, it is for all intents and purposes held at Belmont Park, but it's moved around a lot. Yeah, race covers one lap of the Belmont Park championship track. And it's called that because nearly every major American champion in racing history has competed on the racetrack, which is kind of fun. I didn't know that before reading into this event. Oh, cool. Yeah, and it's got a very large, wide sweeping

turn and long home stretch. It's basically considered one of the fairest racetracks in America. And the main dirt track is nicknamed the Big Sandy, which I think is a cool name. And despite the distance, the race tends to favor horses with tactical speed. Basically, relatively few winners close from far behind the early leaders. So you've got to get out there. You've got to get out the gate. Get out the gate fast. And like the other two races, it has got a lot of tradition. Only

flower -based traditions by any chance. Oh, well, now that you mention it, Jack. It was originally known as Run for the Carnations, continuing that flower theme for you. But when it became established as the third race, it became known for obvious reasons as the Test of the Champion. Nice. Yeah. It's a good name. It is a good name, exactly, because you are the double champ going into the Belmont. But the winning horse is still draped

with a blanket of white carnations. And those carnations, of which there are approximately 700... Only approximately? Yeah. Disappointing. Come from Colombia, which I, you know, that's quite... Okay. Yeah. And the New York Race Association has long used the Pennock Company, a wholesale florist based in Philadelphia, to import them. I don't really know why I look up this shit. It's not that. I was going to say, you're throwing a bone to florists this week. Good stuff, mate.

Honestly, you're just keeping these, what was it, architects previously? What else have we had? Horticulturalists. I guess this is kind of a bone to them as well. Big fans of yours. Well, you know, we cater for everyone here on the almanac. The winning owner ceremonially presented with a silver winner's trophy, which is designed by Tiffany and Company, which I thought was just another weird tangent. I've heard of them. Yeah, they're fairly famous. Yeah, first presented

in 1896. Who cares? Do you know what I mean? There's a longstanding trophy, which is made by Tiffany and Company, which is cool. They also have a song, although this is weird. The Belmont, I don't know, maybe it's part of its charm that it moves locations, it changes its song, it changes its nickname. There's a theme emerging, I guess. At least they're consistent. It's currently themed from New York, New York by Frank Sinatra, but

it's also changed loads. I think before American Pharoah won the Triple Crown in 2015, some claimed that changing the officials... belmont song accursed the triple crown which is why no horse had won since affirmed in 78 but others also um that is famously what the gods look out for exactly changes in music exactly and like others astutely noted that there hadn't been any triple crown winners between 1979 and 1996 even though um the original sidewalks song was still being played

and sung so that is frankly don't let facts get in the way of a good story but yeah it's gone back at one point It was Empire State of New York or whatever that song is by Jay -Z and Alicia Keys. Fair enough. They were trying to appeal to a younger audience, I think, but they realized that people actually do quite like tradition. And so that's why they've gone back to the Sinatra song. Yeah. Belmont doesn't seem quite as keen on traditions as the others. Maybe that's the

tradition in itself. I also like this about the Belmont. There are drinks. Oh, yes. Yeah, the official drink was changed in 1997 from the White Carnation. Of course it was. It was changed from the White Carnation to the Belmont Breeze. And the New York Times has reviewed both drinks very unfavorably, calling the Belmont Breeze a significant improvement over the nigh -undrinkable White Carnation, despite the fact that it tastes like a refined trash can punch. Excellent. That is

damning. And then, yeah, 2011, the Belmont Breeze again was changed to the current official drink. Probably for the best. I'll probably let them have that one. Yeah, known as the Belmont Jewel. And I haven't read any reviews about the Belmont Jewel, so I can't. Let's live in ignorance on that one. Let's assume it's nice. Yeah. And then, yeah, no prizes for guessing who holds the course record. Secretariat. But also, this again, just

because I love this horse. His time of 2 .24 in 73 set a world record that still stands for that length over one and a half miles, which is in and of itself insane. But he won the race by 31 lengths. Yeah, I mean, this is obviously triple crown. I think it'd been a few years. a few years at least before 73 without a Triple Crown winner. Obviously, a lot of hype with Secretaria for obvious reasons. Going into that last race,

what do you want? You want a nice tight finish, a nice, you know, keep them on the edge of their seats. 31 lengths he won by. Everyone else might as well have not turned up. It's mad. So he, when he won the Triple Crown, he set a course record at all three courses. He ran negative splits in the derby and then he won by 31 lengths at the Belmont. Sorry, we're not even having a goat discussion. Oh, no, it's him. Yeah, it's

just whatever. Anyone who says anything differently is an idiot and just haven't even looked at the basic statistics. But yeah, that's basically the Belmont. There have been other famous winners of it. Man O' War is probably the one that people might have heard of in 1920. He won by 20 lengths, which is a pretty astonishing victory. He also won the Preakness, but didn't win the Derby. He wasn't entered because I think the calendar year, as we discussed at the beginning of the

episode, was different. And the trainer didn't like racing in Kentucky. Yeah. Well, there wasn't really the hype around it in 1920. Yeah. 1930 onwards. So maybe it just wasn't such a prestigious thing at that point. Yeah, exactly. Shame. I should have also mentioned, and it would be remiss not to mention, so he said American Pharoah won.

um in 2000 and uh when did he win again 15 15 he he's the only horse to have won the grand slam um he's the first and only horse to sweep the four majors which is the obviously the triple crown uh and he also won at the breeders cup i think i think it's the breeders cup that makes the grand slam so um we can probably verify that before no yeah i think you're right i think you are right But yeah, I mean, that's absolutely absurd. That is impressive. So maybe put him

second in the argument. Yeah, he's second. He's second. You can't compete with Secretariat as winning margins and dominance. So the Breeders' Cup's only been going on 41 years. So a lot of the fact there's no Triple Crown winners will be because of that. And there's also not been any Triple Crown winners in most of those 41

years as well. that was the early 80s it will have started so uh we'll um pinch of salt on that one it's it's a it's a much newer so 1982 was the first breeders cup so much newer thing this grand slam as we're talking about but nevertheless the first winner perhaps we should refer to was american pharaoh rather than saying no one's ever won it before because obviously secretary i never got the chance to yeah he didn't exactly and would have can we be clear would i think

it's i think i'd bet on it put it that way i'm not that bad at betting yeah um but yeah i mean it's a it's just i mean i before we wrap this up i think i just think it's such a cool event um can i close this with a with a with a nice little sentiment which i think sums up like the romance i think in a second but let's before we do that should we talk about where you can watch it because i like to it seems very unromantic to do that after some nice closing words let's

let's do the fundamentals first so you can watch it if you're in the usa on NBC, All Three Racers. The Belmont, for some reason, is also on Fox. In the UK, Sky Sports for the Kentucky Derby. Ireland, Virgin Media 2, and Canada, TSN. I'm sure you can catch it on YouTube very soon afterwards as well. Oh yeah, absolutely. I don't know if the Preakness and the Belmont are shown. I doubt they are. Maybe. I'm sure there's somewhere you

can find them, but I'll... Yeah. We'll, we'll talk about that maybe in a couple of weeks time before the Preakness. Yeah. See if we can slip it in, but yeah, don't know. Cool. Well, before we go then, now that we've covered everything we want to cover, there's just like a really nice story, which I think we were saying about

the rarity of the winners. Bill Hartek, who won the Derby five times and the Preakness stakes three times and the Belmont stakes once, but never won the triple crown, had a shot at the

triple crown. on a horse uh called northern dancer who was a canadian horse um in 1960 good name then yeah yeah it's a really cool name in 1964 he had a shot at the the triple crown uh on northern dancer northern dancer obviously had won the uh the derby and the preakness and going into the moment um was you know really There was a lot of hype, as you imagine, because there was a gap. I think it was like a 26 -year gap. And unfortunately, he came up short. He didn't win

the Belmont. And because there had been such a gap, I think people were disappointed. You know, like the hype train, this, that, and the other. And Bill Hartek being, you know, as successful as he was as well. I think people wanted him to win the Triple Crown. So there was a lot of disappointment when Northern Dancer didn't win. And he was asked immediately after the race.

like if he was disappointed in the horse which i think is a shit question um i agree and to bill's credit he responded and i think this is just perfect really he just responded how can it be disappointment when a horse runs his heart out for you he certainly didn't disgrace himself not to me anyway And it seems Canada agrees because Northern Dancer was inducted into the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame in 1965 and is considered a Canadian icon, which I think is adorable. There's

a shiver down my spine. Thank you, Ben. He's a horse. Good way to end. He's a horse and he's in their Hall of Fame. So it's a lovely way to end, I think. Yeah. So yeah, Citation 1948 was the previous winner of the Triple Crown and, of course, the next one a few years later. 1973, Secretariat. We'll end on the mention of him one more time. Yeah, so I think that's it. I think next week we are moving over to do some, well, sticking with the Canadian theme. Yeah.

Throwing a bone to Canada. Well, I say throwing a bone. It's not something we're experts on, but we'll do our best. It's the Ice Hockey World Championships and the NHL playoffs that starts

as well. So we're going to do both. We're going to talk about ice hockey and... yeah dive into that and i'll probably it's probably good as i said in the first episode of this a good chance for me to educate myself a bit more on certain sports and i think this is one of them so i'm looking forward to that yeah same i know nothing about ice hockey but i know it's brutal and i know it's fun yes i saw an ice hockey game actually last year i saw a pre -season game when i was

in las vegas between the colorado avalanche and the vegas golden knights and it was fun cool so if you want to learn more about ice hockey Please feel free to join us then. But I guess until then, have a great time at the London Marathon, Jack. I will. And I'll see you soon. See you soon, pal. Once again, thank you for listening to the Sporting Almanac podcast. It is always appreciated. If you enjoyed it, give us a like, a subscribe or a rating at wherever you get your

podcasts from. More importantly, please tell your friends there will never be any better advertising than word of mouth. Our theme tune is Oh Yeah by Harmonia Productions. You can find us on Blue Sky at the Sporting Almanac or drop us an email at thesportingalmanacpodcast .gmail .com. Congratulations to everyone who ran the London Marathon this weekend. You're all heroes. We'll be back next week with some ice hockey and until then, stay curious. Sport is nothing without the stories

that make it. Goodbye.