Episode 19 - The Premier League

Premier League champions 2016, the amazing Leicester City! Do you not remember when Leicester won the Premier League? If you knew nothing else, that would be enough. Fairy tales, first league titles, doubles, trebles, 100 -point seasons, goal difference deciders and the Invincibles. But it's not just about the winners. It's relegation dogfights, 11 -point seasons, top four races, and the hunt for European places. Foreign influence, oligarchs, managers, players. There's always

controversy. Slips, missed drug tests, karate kicks, managerial meltdowns, dodgy lasagnas, VAR. It's midweek games, the Christmas fixtures, and the run-in. Superstars and legends at every turn. Playing in some of the greatest arenas, Anfield, St James' Park and the Theatre of Dreams. Simply put, it's the best league in the world and it's back. It's time for another edition of the Premier League. And this is the Sporting Almanac Podcast. That sums it all up. Good afternoon,

mate. Afternoon, Ben. How are you? I'm very good, thanks. Really looking forward to this week for very obvious reasons. Yeah, I can't imagine why. It's almost like this is your favourite week of the year. Yeah, the build -up, the community shield. It's just exciting. It is exciting, and it's a weird old feeling when you go into it on the back of... It's something I've never experienced before. Obviously, as a Liverpool fan... Liverpool

are the reigning champions. I've been in a situation where Liverpool are the reigning champions before, but that was a really weird time, if you remember. It was COVID and now, I don't know, it's normality and I don't know what to think. Are we going to win it again? What do you reckon, Ben? You have an excellent chance. As do you. When Arsenal go to Anfield, they are going to play some terrorismo football. It's going to be, what we're going to do to you is diabolical. Against the decency

of the game. What would Johan Cruyff say? Yeah, it's going to be a clash of styles between our two clubs. And I can't imagine City are going to be as shit as they were. No. Yeah, lots to look forward to. Chelsea also look good. They'll be tired. Although they flatter to deceive. I mean, they are world champions, but at what cost, Ben? At what cost? We'll find out. World champions

or shambles. That's a very good point. That is a very good point, though, about those that competed or went deep in the Club World Cup have effectively not had a summer holiday. So it could be a factor. We'll see. But we'll see. Anyway. But yeah, the Premier League. I mean, I was banging on last week about how we love football more than anyone else. And, you know, people can take that as they wish. But surely it's far less controversial to say that this is the best domestic league

in the world. I don't really think there's any debate. I think there's better, there's arguably at any given time, there may be better teams. There certainly have been in the past 20 years. AC Milan were brilliant about 20 years ago. Obviously Real Madrid, constantly brilliant. Barcelona have been the best team I've ever seen in the meantime. But the standard they have to play

in their leagues ain't there. Like PSG, probably best team in the world at the moment, even though Chelsea beat them in the Club World Cup final. But when do they have a hard game during the regular season? When do they have to go away to Bournemouth and be put on a Iriola masterclass? The classic rainy day in Stoke, even if Stoke aren't in the Premier League anymore. It's just, it's not the same. It's easier for them to focus on Europe because they don't have the same standards

at home. The Premier League, every single game is a challenge. Anyone from the relegation zone could beat anyone from the top four on any day. That's what makes it so wonderful. Yeah, and there's so many, and actually before I make this point, I was going to say there's so many competing styles in the Premier League, which is not something

you necessarily find on the continent. So everyone in Spain is very technical, for example, and everyone in Germany is relatively direct, and I don't mean long ball, they just play sort of like wing football quite a lot. Yeah, yeah, which is great. And that's probably why the Germans are so good internationally. But in the Premier League, you get such a wide variety of styles competing against one another, which means that, you know, all the games are interesting. Yeah.

But the point I was going to make, which is, well, I say the point you were making, which I was just sort of going to elaborate on and add some additional flavor to, is we're not saying the teams in the Premier League are the best teams. And you made that point very clear. What we are saying is it is the best league. It is the most competitive. It's the most absorbing. It's the most exciting. That doesn't mean that

it produces the best teams necessarily. So again, as I said last week, listen to what we're saying, not what you think we're saying. I think it'd be a very interesting competition to have a European.

fourth tier European competition for like mid -table teams and see how the mid -table teams of England stack up against other countries because I genuinely Spain aside there are some good teams fairly deep in Spain but I think Italy I think certainly France the Netherlands maybe not Germany so much but I I just don't think they go anywhere near as deep as us there's too much power and money concentrated at the top which while you could argue is the same in England there's a

lot more money spread out for everyone else to enjoy as well so i think strength and depth wise i think we got it won well i think that's right because our coefficient is incredibly strong and there's a reason for that and the revamping of european competition very much serves to illustrate that our mid -table teams are strong because uh spurs have now won a european trophy of course generous of you to call them mid -table and so have west ham Well, I mean, they were lucky last

year to be qualifying for that status. But look, what I'm saying is the one tier down, now that there's been a revamp of the Champions League, gives your Tottenhams, your Villas, your Crystal Palaces this year, obviously, although now in the Conference League rather than the Europa League, which is a shame. Yeah, big shame. Or at least until that appeal is settled. Yeah, fingers crossed on that because that's bullshit, that is. That is bullshit. Yeah. But yeah, and

West Ham. We're obviously strong. I suspect Brighton or Bournemouth, as you say, versus a 10th or 11th place equivalent on most parts of the continent would be an interesting watch. I think so. But we're not here to talk about that. We're talking about the actual Premier League itself. We are the greatest competition in the world. The only thing sports -wise that keeps me up at night. It's wonderful. It's horrible. It's everything.

it is if you support a team in the premier league it's everything and as we said last week if you support a team in any other division that that division's everything but the one thing that the premier league does do is it transcends sporting affiliations yeah in the sense that everyone is interested in the premier league certainly here and i would say that's true internationally regardless of whether or not you actually support

a participant Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It's the most watched sports league in the world in terms of viewers on television. Obviously, it's not quite the most watched in terms of viewers on seats in stadiums because the Bundesliga still has us beat. God bless the Germans. They've also got some better stadia. They do. They have some incredible stadiums there. But even Germany, I mean, we're talking about competitiveness.

Germany don't have it. And I know you can make the argument with Manchester City, England don't have it, but it's not quite that same level. I mean, COVID served to illustrate that. Do you remember how excited everyone was here in England? Well, in the UK generally, when the Bundesliga came back before any other sporting event and everyone was glued into their TVs to watch a bit of the Bundesliga. And after about two weeks, they were just like, this is not what we were

hoping for. We were hoping for something equivalent to the Prem where every game is gone. But yeah, alas, you can't have it all. I don't want to upset the Germans any more than I did last week about my strong feelings. I think I was the worst with the Germans last week. I made a terrible insinuation against Bayern Munich. I would apologise, but it's not our style. And also, it's not factually inaccurate, so there is no need for it. No, true. Yeah, the Premier League, where did it all begin?

Where did it all begin? I mean, because the reason I think we should talk about this just, you know, at least briefly is because I'm not sure actually any, like many people know about this. It's sort of, it's just a staple of like the sporting calendar now and people just take it as given. And I think actually how it came about is quite interesting. Yeah, I think if you're our age, particularly our age or something under the age of 40 now, you probably don't remember this. You don't remember

it happening. You've only ever grown up with the Premier League. You don't know what preceded it other than, you know, what's in the history books and what you see on the highlight videos and whatever else. I don't think any of this is particularly surprising where it comes from. I don't think any of this will come as a shock

to anyone where it comes from. But I think what it does do is it provokes an awful lot of questions and an awful lot of thinking about the direction the game could have gone in or things that could have been done differently which may have changed the way the game is now. And less the impact on the Premier League and more the impact and it's had a colossal impact on the rest of the Football League. Yes. And the pyramid as we talked

about last week. Yes. That's, really the effect it's had more than anything there's a different way they could have gone about it yeah well because it's all money money money money it is effectively the original super league blueprint and When that was sort of revamped in European form recently, it sparked anger because it was... It's exactly the same principle. It's exactly the same principle. That's the point. Except it didn't quite close

it off. So obviously a European Super League would close off the pyramid because it would deny access to the very, very top of the game to English clubs. The Premier League didn't quite do that, but it's, as you said, had a pretty profound impact on teams' ability to reach the summit. I mean, have you got... I can go into a bit of historical context just to sort of build

on a little bit in terms of the share. I was talking about money last week with the Football League episode in terms of how money was shared previously between the different leagues. I mean, yeah, I think that's probably a pretty good place to start. I was going to just say we were talking about the playoffs last week in our episode on the Football League itself and the context in

which the playoffs formed. It's not dissimilar to the... the origins the sort of pea shoots if you like of the premier league in that despite quite a lot of major success european european football for english teams in the 70s in the early 80s the mid to late 80s like was like a low point in english football stadiums were shit we spoke about that there was hooliganism it was rife all the english clubs faced five -year ban following the heisel disaster in 85 there

was the bradford fire there was obviously hillsborough like A lot of English, well, not even just English, a lot of British players were playing abroad actually as well. And the English Football League was dragging behind Serie A in Italy and La Liga in Spain in terms of attendance and revenue. Yeah. And so like to give you sort of like a quick illustration. And quality. And quality for sure. And that's why I think a lot of the

British players were abroad. So you had like Lineker, Platt, Chris Waddle, Glenn Hoddle, Souness,

Trevor Farnsworth. Gascoigne Laurie Cunningham Liam Brady Ray Wilkins Mark Hughes Ian Rush etc they all it's John Aldridge yeah all towards the the mid to late 80s the exception being Gascoigne went a little bit later like in the early 90s but still pre -premier league they were all abroad playing in predominantly Spain and Italy but also in France so yeah that's the scene and then as you say like it's probably worth mentioning the way money was being divided up yeah so I

mean so as we pop back in and please do listen to last week's episode It doesn't have to be before this, but after this, it goes into a lot more detail. But the FA and the Football League had always butted heads a little bit over professionalism, over payment, over things like that. The maximum wage was imposed, blah, blah, blah. The FA always being the ones who were traditionally, they wanted

the game to be amateur. If they got their own way, the game would have been fully amateur, whereas the Football League wanted to make as much money as possible. That's why the Football

League was founded. But the Football League had always been somewhat, sort of, looking to get looking to share money across the different teams but not for sake of fairness but for the sake of competition yeah because they wanted to keep it as tight as possible and not have teams running away with it there was also no real competition for tv rights there's no bbc and itv they would squabble a little bit but ultimately they they put their own best interest first ultimately

so Just to give an example, when the BBC got Match of the Day right in 1965, they paid £5 ,000 for it. That was about £85 ,000 in today's money and that was split evenly between all 92 league clubs. Anytime any TV money, anytime any money came into the Football League, it would be split evenly amongst all 92 league clubs. They got about £50 each, which is about a grand

in today's money. So it's nothing. So while top teams could dominate, they rarely did so without being challenged or did so for many years in a row. There was no team who won it three years in a row for many, many years. Well, and Liverpool did it a couple of times in the 80s. Liverpool did once, I think. Liverpool won it three times in the 80s and I think four and five in the 70s. But you're right. If you go back and look at it, it was rare that people defended the title.

It had been done, for sure. Wolves and United had done it and stuff. But more often than not, you... you had different winners. And even if you didn't have different winners, talking about Liverpool, for example, it was always a company with like a big rivalry with someone. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And by the 80s, it should be mentioned as well, the sponsorship had started being a thing. So that was having a factor as well, beyond simply the sharing of revenue, albeit, obviously,

it's a club owning that sponsorship. That kind of thing also meant a great manager, someone like Brian Clough, for example, could come into a relatively small club, a Derby, a Nottingham Forest, and lead them to glory. And it could also mean that a team like Manchester United or Spurs could find themselves getting relegated. In the 1970s, both of them got relegated as well, being all dominant at at least one point in the decade before Man United. Obviously, European

champions Spurs won the double. And yeah, and obviously it's tight and controlled in that case. And that changed in 1983, I think. So the 80s saw sort of the first threat of rebellion coming along from the big teams. The equal split that existed. as a compromise became a 50 -25, 12 .5 -12 .5 split between the four divisions. So 50 % of the revenues going to Division 1, and then 25 % to Division 2, and 12 .5 % to each

of the two lower leagues. But yeah, and then obviously, as you say, that was the situation we found ourselves in. There was a few threats of breaking away before that, which makes me worried about the European Super League, because that might just be the first attempt at something

that might come. roaring roaring back rearing his ugly head reemerge but but essentially the situation yeah the situation we find ourselves in is the same the teams at the top want a bigger share of the pie the 50 they were getting they considered that to be less than they were earning and they were probably right but it was also keeping the other teams in the other divisions going the thing that's really interesting about that as well is because you set the scene really

nicely there is that that that trend of sort of stamping their influence on negotiation strategies by the league and what have you basically just got exponentially more severe it didn't It didn't slow down. What I'm saying is what you just described from 83 didn't appease anyone. No, if anything, it did the opposite. Yeah, it made them realise that they had the leverage, right? And then they

certainly exercised it. Because I think it's, like you were saying, pre -1986, as a result of that deal, I think clubs were receiving about 25 grand a year in television rights in the mid

-80s. Sounds about right, yeah. And then... in 1986 the football league renegotiated its tv deal it was a two -year deal 6 .3 million which meant that the clubs received about 600k a year by 1988 but what's interesting about that is that that coincided with like a drive for greater revenue generally and the division one clubs continuously threatening to break away which meant that they secured an increase in the voting power yeah as well so like they were really by

the time like the sort of mid to late 80s came along they were starting to demand higher fees from broadcasters and influence um stamp their authority rather on sort of commercial relations and that sort of thing yeah and the other thing that was changing in the world at that time as well towards the late 80s and certainly into the early 90s was cable tv that american favorite of the 1980s were coming over the atlantic yeah and all of a sudden pay for tv was a thing not

just you four terrestrial channels as it was back then you could pay and you could get more channels and obviously one of the competitors in that market was rupert murdoch's b sky b yeah yeah well this is the thing the context of that is really interesting as well because itv i mean i know everyone's probably thinking this is some dry shit for talking about the premier league just talking business but like itv i did warn you at the beginning itv is um they're the main

players at this point I think in 88, they signed a deal worth about 44 million, but the top clubs took 75 % of that income because that was the top 10 teams threatening a Super League. And they literally called it a Super League. And ITV were actually pushing Greg Dyke, who would later become the chairman of the FA. People might be familiar with his name. He was basically managing

director of the London division of ITV. And he was like... in secret negotiations with like man united liverpool spurs everton and arsenal about reigniting like this breakaway concept and stuff and like negotiating the idea of of you know of like setting up a breakaway league of sorts and sky as you say they were they were going bust mate like they yeah they were in major

shit and In fact, I think this is fun. So I think they had three options, Sky, in the early 90s, which was... I know what you're going to say here, and this is fun. It was to offer its subscribers access to porn. Always a good place to start. Offer their subscribers access to major film or get involved in exclusive sporting events. They decided that porn was too problematic, which to be fair, even from a business perspective, is probably the right call because it's now very

free. Oh yeah, they'd have been out of business by now. Might have given them a good 15 years. And they fucked off film because they'd already had loads of bad experiences negotiating with film industry and paying over the odds for films that flopped, I think. And probably massively simplifying that business model. But they'd also be in trouble with that nowadays as well. Yes, with Netflix and people like that. And yeah,

Amazon and just cinema generally. But yeah, anyway, what Sky did have is they had access to, they already had the rights for cricket and rugby league. And they started to assemble talent to present football coverage. And very smartly, and I think this is the really, I actually think this is the kicker, mate. Like, I think this is little known, is the BBC couldn't afford live

games. So they were just like desperate. to get match of the day and retain match of the day yeah and so sky entered into a deal with the bbc where if they won the rights to the premier league which we haven't even actually talked about how it formed yet but if they won the rights to the premier league then then bbc would get access to the highlights for match of the day yeah and so they fucked over itv in that sense and obviously the bbc are happy as larry because

they get the they get match of the day not fun though obviously we're sort of skipping over a few sets we'll probably go back and talk about it but uh the the funny thing about this is if you like laughing at rich powerful men is that greg dyke started this whole process and then he got absolutely screwed over at the end yeah He was the one who started it all with ITV and then ITV ended up getting absolutely nothing.

They got stiffed. BBC got match of the day and Sky obviously end up with the rights to the Premier League as everybody knows because it's still on Sky to this day. It is. And it's their biggest money earner by a mile. By an absolute mile. And the rights are just astonishingly expensive now as well. And they still make a huge profit. Well, anyone who's got a Sky Sports subscription will know why. Yes. As the price keeps going up and up and up. It does. Well, so yeah, I mean...

To rewind then, the negotiations themselves, it's basically, it's three guys, but two out of three are particularly influential. And I'm not just saying that to take the piss out of Tottenham. So you had Martin Edwards of Man United

and you had David Dean of Arsenal. and these two guys were like at the forefront of transforming football clubs into like major business ventures and applying basically like commercial principles and administrating clubs in a way that maximize revenue like so they were kind of like pioneers really of like the sporting sector and uh yeah and weirdly between them one all but one of the first dozen premier league yeah titles yeah yeah funnily enough and david dean's a real innovator

from from from a biased arsenal perspective because he's the one who brought in arsene wenger and like brought him the foreign player or at least sort of maybe didn't bring them in because obviously i know there had been others but really embraced the idea of like multicultural football basically to arsenal's benefit because you know we hadn't won massive benefit and to the viewers benefit as well because Arsenal played some good football yeah they did and the standard fucking went through

the roof as well with the influx of foreign players which we'll probably get to yeah the other guy was Irving Scholar and he was at Spurs and so they they're the ones who entered into sort of like didn't enter into they sort of instigated the secret discussions with Dyke and that sort of started around 1990 yeah and that gained a lot of traction because obviously the they basically managed to convince others that it would be advantageous to break away and set up like what is effectively

now the premier league and but they obviously couldn't do it without the fa and so yeah they went to the fa this is the real yeah yeah yeah sorry i mean like you might know a bit more about this mate but they went as far as i'm aware they just basically went to the fa with cap in hand and was like we want to do this and the fa as you said hated the football league yeah so basically um the fa who was so resistant to anything like that in the past, any sort of concentration of

power in anyone else's hands, any profiteering, anything like that. So determined to be a force for football for all. Well, all men, anyway, at that point. Sort of the bastions of early amateurism, organisation that used equality as their excuse to keep paying players or keep players paid as little as possible for years. And they went along with it because they went along with it because they were in a big old rivalry with

the Football League for years and years. such things as club versus country rows then they produced this blueprint for the future of football in the early 1990s which is a weird old document but yeah basically it says that it tries to make the argument that a smaller top flight would be beneficial for the england team and i don't really understand why it comes to that conclusion but nevertheless it basically was going to get implemented the only thing that stopped it was

Ken Bates came along who was the chairman of Chelsea and persuaded the FA out of it because Chelsea at the time were a bit of a yo -yo club and obviously 18 teams in the league would potentially screw them over as a team towards the bottom of the league at that point. The FA were just like, yep, go for it. But yeah, there was a guy at the FA, Graham Kelly, who was the chief executive

of the FA at the time of the breakaway. He later admitted there was a huge mistake because at that point the clubs were so desperate to break away. The FA could have asked for concessions in order to do so. They could have asked for bigger redistribution of funds to the lower leagues as a result of tax put upon the profits. They probably would have accepted it, but the FA was so ready to screw over the Football League that they just said yes and didn't demand anything

from it. He said by the time they realised what

a mistake they made, it was too late. well yeah because they basically handed all of the power to the to the to the teams all the power and all the money because when they set it up it was set up on a on a basis that basically every single club would get a one club one vote motion and you needed two -thirds majority to get anything through and the fa didn't have a vote it's a premier league vote so it's the clubs within the premier league to vote on it yeah and it

all got signed off i think it was december 91 that uh rick powey rick powey rick parry rick has appointed the chief exec and obviously liverpool fans would be familiar with him because he would later join liverpool and if you wanted an indication of the direction of travel the chairman of the first premier league was a guy called sir john quinton who was the chairman of barclays bank and i don't think you really need to know anything else other than that do you to know which way

it was going of the barclays premier league yeah crazy so anyway plan was drawn up first premier league 18 clubs to be created in time for the 92 -93 season. But basically the big fundamental difference is the Premier League was split the money amongst all of the clubs active in just the Premier League. And that was it really. Yeah, I mean, it was the only change because the format didn't change. There's still 22 teams in the

league, still free game relegated. No change to matches, no change to anything other than the TV coverage got a bit more Americanised.

Yeah. they took it took their influence from monday night football uh which is obviously as in monday night american football the american uh tv show introduced a similar thing monday night football with halftime shows and cheerleaders and fireworks and everything oh yeah the first one is cringe isn't it it's so cringy yeah and they got rid of that pretty quickly but uh the coverage did improve after that and they've had some good presenters yes in the time and some

bad presenters as well well yes indeed like it like like all good business i mean i'd like we haven't even explained the context of the bidding war though because if i think this is really important because obviously said in the 80s like this you know there's division of about uh 600k a year for the teams so uh to put that into context and also to put into context how badly sky needed this uh sky we're losing 14 million a week Not

the best business model. No. And by 1991, it was still losing 1 .5 million a week and had accumulated 2 billion in debt. So they were in the shit. The bidding war ensued between primarily

ITV and Sky. And I think it started at like just over 100 mil, which, you know, divided by 20 teams is still... a significant increase per team on um the 600k they were getting it was it two mil some something like that no five mil sorry my maths is terrible yeah although that i think that was over four or five seasons yeah yeah there'll be about a million each yes in the beginning obviously yes as you're about to say it went up from that it ends up being like

because there's just not bore everyone with this ends up being 305 million over five years yeah and the interesting thing about that is uh itv is up their bid and itv bid something like 260 million pounds 262 million pounds for their rights but then a certain alan sugar who was tottenham chairman uh but more importantly he was the supplier of sky dishes so the uh the dishes that you used to have to put on the side of your house to get sky was it the amstrad yeah so he tipped off

sky and told them to blow that offer out of the water which sky promptly did with their 305 million pound bid Which one? And do you know the ironic thing about all of this? Spurs were shit? No, that bid was... Well, yes, I mean that. That's funny. But that bid was accepted in a 14 -6 split with two abstentions, right? Arsenal, Villa, Everton, Leeds, Liverpool and United all voted in favour of the ITV deal. That's weird. I'm guessing because they were tapped up in the first

place. Yeah, yeah. And there must have been like... There's probably a sweetener for them there or something. But like, given that Arsenal, Liverpool... Manchester United in particular have gone on to be some of the most dominant teams in the Premier League era and Everton have never been relegated and obviously Villa, but for a blip, have also been a mainstay. It's just very ironic. Just not mentioning Leeds being in that list. Leeds just had a bit more misfortune, didn't

they? That's the only reason why I left them out, not for any other reason. Badly managed team. Yeah. Screwed over by their own management. But yeah, I just thought it was funny because they voted down the Sky deal and actually they've ended up being the biggest beneficiaries of it, arguably. But yes, Sky went from 1 .5 million loss and a loss in 1992 generally as a business, a 1 .5 million a week loss that is, and a financial loss for the year ending 92 to a 62 million pound

profit in 93. It's crazy. Talk about turning

your fortunes around. Yeah. for better or worse the stranglehold they have over football now and I mean you can get into debates talking about the good and the bad of it and all the money that's coming to the game the most important thing to talk about in terms of the money that's coming to the game is that none of it for a very long time it's starting to get a bit better now but none of it went to the Football League and interesting stat for you by 2004 of the 72 teams

who were in the Football League at the start of the 2004 -2005 season Guess how many of them had been in administration or financial troubles or whatever else at that point out of 72 teams? I don't know. You're just going to have to give me the number. It's going to be high. Half. Whoa. 36. That is high. That's higher than I thought it would be. And that was 11 years after this. Even knowing it was going to be high, I would have probably gone for a quarter of the teams

at tops. Half is absurd. It's absurd, yeah. It's crazy. It is. Yeah, I mean, that's the problem. There's a bigger gap between the haves and have -nots, right? Which persists to the modern day.

It put pressure on those football league clubs or the football league to try and catch up as well, which led to that disastrous deal again with ITV involved screwing over the football league, the ITV digital saga in about 2002 where they massively over -promised or overpaid for... football league highlight rights and then simply couldn't sell enough on the back of it so couldn't then pay the football league who in turn obviously couldn't play pay their clubs and clubs that

had budgeted for that money found themselves going into receivership and being screwed over yeah that's mental i mean vicious cycle and now guess who has the football league rights sky yeah yeah You can literally watch every football league game now. Like, it's possible. Yeah, and they're paying good money, or relatively good money. Certainly nothing compared to what they're paying the Premier League, but it's helping.

Yeah, for sure. Although, it's not to say there aren't still football league clubs who are struggling financially, and this week we've got a national league club potentially going out of business in Morecambe. Yeah, yeah, seen that. Which would be a shame. Always, yeah. But yeah, I mean, like... The money is the obvious thing. I guess the cool thing about it there is the standard. I mean, it was set up in 1992. May 1992 was when it was officially formed. First season, 1992 -1993 season.

15th of August, 1992. We're off. We're away. The Premier League is here. First Super Sunday game? Who was it? Nottingham Forest versus Liverpool was the first one. So Brian Clough's, Nottingham Forest, Brian Clough's. Last year as Nottingham Forest manager. Ill -fated last year as Nottingham Forest. Went down that year to end his illustrious career. Oh, yeah. They went down in the first year of the Prem, didn't they? That's a shame.

Brian Clough, legend. yeah yeah it was it was actually it's quite interesting this because the first league involved the 19 highest place teams in the first division as well as the champions runners up and playoff winners of the second division so there were 22 teams in total and obviously there's only 20 now we'll come on to how that came about yeah this is what also led to the renaming of the various divisions as you already spoke about on our last episode so if

anybody's interested in the football league and that's history as we keep saying just go back and listen to that one You'll get a bit more information. But yeah, the people that got screwed were Luton, Lutontown, Notts County and West Ham United. They went down into what would become the first division. They didn't take part in the inaugural Premier League season and they were replaced by Ipswich, Ipswich Town that is, Middlesbrough and Blackburn Rovers. Oh yeah,

I forgot Blackburn only just got promoted. They got very, very good very, very quickly. They sneaked it. But yeah, of the original 22, all the usual suspects are there, as you might imagine. But you also had Wimbledon, now in brackets MK Dons, who we don't like, boo. Both Sheffield sides, that's Wednesday and United. QPR, Oldham Athletic of all teams. Middlesbrough, Southampton, Ipswich, Coventry, and as I've said, Blackburn. An eclectic mix of teams compared to what people

would be familiar with now. Yeah, you could say that. First Premier League goal? You'll know this. Come on, mate. Of course I know this. Brian Dean against Manchester United. Pretty much the low point of Manchester United's season, unfortunately. It all got better from there. It did. And in actual fact, that allides to the next thing I was going to say, which is United won the first edition. They did. Actually ended a 26 -year wait, though, to be crowned champions of England,

to be fair to them. Yeah, and there's one thing I actually forgot to mention in the equality I was saying before, is that in 1983, it was actually 1983, this is why I had that year stuck in my head. That was when, for the first time ever, or first time for about 100 years, the FA stopped, the Football League stopped having gate receipts shared between the home team and the away team, which it used to be even 80 -20 split or 75 -25 % split. I've read different

things in different places. But they used to split the gate receipts for matches. That ended in 1983, again, under pressure from these top teams who had bigger stadiums. And it was no coincidence from that point. The team with the biggest stadium in the land then got better and better and better as the decade went on. And don't get me wrong, Alex Ferguson had a huge impact on it as well. But Manchester United were the richest club in the country in 1992 -1993

because their stadium was the biggest. That makes a lot of sense. I did not know that. That makes perfect sense. You're always duped into thinking it's because they were really good at marketing. I mean, I'm sure they are. Don't get me wrong. It's a big foot up, isn't it? If the original disparater is your gate receipts. Yeah, it's a snowball effect, ultimately. Because then you have more money to invest and blah, blah, blah.

Exactly. Which means you can get good players in and those players turn out to be good and handsome and photogenic like David Beckham and then you become a bigger worldwide brand because of it. Less so Gary Neville. Yeah. Current format? We need to explain how we got to where we are. Yeah, by relegating a lot of teams. Indeed, four in fact. Don't tell me who they are because I think I can name them. Okay. Let's see if I can scratch the annals of my brain. 94 -95 season,

Blackburn Rovers are your champs. Ipswich is one of them. Yes. Leicester is definitely one of them. Yes. I want to say, who were the last two? Norwich. Norwich was one of them. Well done, that's three. You just need the fourth. Middlesbrough. Middlesbrough were definitely promoted. Crystal Palace? Crystal Palace did good. How have you got four from four there? That's sensational work. And yes, you were right. Middlesbrough came up with... Can you get the bonus ball? As

in the other team to get promoted? With Middlesbrough, yeah. 95 -96. No. I was just about to lord you up there, but I'm still going to because I think it's appropriate. Those who don't know much about Jack, and that's anyone who listens to this podcast that isn't friends with him, will not know that he has an encyclopedic knowledge of football, which is why I was able to recite those teams, what was it, 20 years after the fact. Yeah, just because I read it in 1997 or something like that.

Yeah. I still can't remember who else got promoted.

Bolton Wanderers. okay i wouldn't have came up so that basically meant you had your 22 teams four going down two coming up 20 clubs bob's your uncle 95 96 we're away current format 51 teams have played in the premier league since its formation do you want to do you want to have a hazard a guess of where they all are now not every single team don't get me wrong i'm not going to test that encyclopedic knowledge and to that extent but well 20 of the teams have

played in the premier league are still in the premier league well done that's a good start good start yeah So obviously Wimbledon no longer exists or exists as MK Don's, depending on your opinion, but they no longer exist. Yeah. Swindon have been in there. Yes. They are, well, they're League One now, League Two. League Two, along with Oldham. They're the three. Oldham, yeah. They're the three that are either bust or in League Two. That's as low as they go, though.

Wigan are League One. So you've got, yeah, how many teams do you think are in League One, roughly? Bolton, are they in League One now? Yes, they are. Haven't been promoted, I don't think. You can't name them all. Birmingham just got promoted, so they're in the championship. Yeah, I'm not going to name them all. So there's 10 in League 1, which means there's 19 in the championship, which out of a league of 24 shows you how competitive the championship is, which is what we were talking

about before. Luton being one of them, obviously, in League 1. In League 1, yeah. It does also show, though, that if out of the 51 teams that have played in the league... 49 of them are in the top two divisions. What an advantage having that money is. Indeed. And of them, how many have won it? Not many. Not many at all. Like barely any, in fact. Who have won it? That's a good transition. Manchester United. Do you

want me just to go through every year? Well, no. I was going to say Manchester United have won the most. They've got 13. Yeah. City, second with eight. Manchester City. Chelsea, we've got five. Arsenal, I've got three. Liverpool, two. Yeah. And there's only two others, isn't there? Yeah, Leicester and Blackburn. Leicester and Blackburn, yeah. Seven teams have won it. Leicester won the Premier League. Do you remember when Leicester won the Premier League? Do you remember

when Leicester won the Premier League? Shall I tell that story? Because I know a bit about this. I think that would be a good story to tell. You can tell me it as if... You're telling me it for the first time because I don't believe you. I don't believe that Leicester won the Premier League. God, Leicester City won the Premier League.

Right, so I want to say it all started when then -manager Nigel Pearson's son, who was playing for the team, racially abused a Thai prostitute during an orgy on Leicester's pre -season tour of Thailand. But that's actually not quite where it started, although it did play a very significant role. So we'll come back to that. I just had to cover my mouth because I was laughing so much. We will come back. I knew what you were going

to say before you said this. That is one of the weirdest sliding doors, butterfly moment effects in sporting history. And it didn't even start there. Right. So where did it actually start? Jesus. Well, in 2008, 2009, Leicester were in League One of all places. They'd just been relegated from the championship. And thankfully for them, they were quickly promoted back to the championship

by winning League One in 2009, 2010. And then the reason that's significant is because in August 2010, so their return to the championship season, the Asia Football Investments Consortium, including Vichai Rakrashirskorn. I don't know how you pronounce his name. Everyone knows who Vichai is, though. He's the guy who died in the helicopter crash.

He purchased Leicester and that was obviously a buyout that he was a wealthy man and he consolidated their position in the league and obviously that financing helped and 2012 -2013 they made the playoffs finishing sixth. Now that playoffs is also quite spectacular because they lost in the playoffs to Watford in the semis in one of the greatest playoff semi -final ties. to ever be played. Yes. They were 1 -0 up. You'll have heard a clip from that match in the intro of last week's

episode. Yeah, yeah. Deeney! That one. Incredible. So, 1 -0 up from the first leg. Sorry, go on. Go on, what were you going to say? I was just going to say, you explain a bit. If you haven't seen this highlight, immediately just pause this if you can, or as soon as you finish your drive or whatever, watch this highlight. Just type in Troy Deeney. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. So Leicester are 1 -0 up from the first leg, and it was 1 -1 in the second leg, so they were 2 -1 up on

aggregate. 65th minute, Watford take the lead, 2 -1 on the day, 2 -2 on aggregate, and, you know, fine. It's close, it's tight, this can happen, one goal in it, home and away, no problem. 95th minute of injury time, Leicester get a penalty. Anthony Nochart's taking it. If he scores, Leicester are going to the final. He took it. Almunia saved. Almunia saved again, as it says on the commentary. And then in a barely, literally a barely believable sequence of events, Watford just boot the ball

downfield and break on the clearance. It's chipped to the back post, knotted back down into the centre on the penalty spot area. Troy Deeney arriving late, having sprinted the entire field, just smashes it in. Cue pandemonium, heartbreak

for Leicester. Watford. Watford go through to the final and I think they were actually they may have went up actually that year they lost did they lose the final who did they lose to do you remember oh now you put me on the spot it doesn't matter it's not part of this story don't remember it doesn't matter no one gives a shit we're here to talk about Leicester so unless they then get promoted the following season the end of the 2013 -2014 season bearing in mind

jack like just to reframe the context promoted to the premier league in 2013 -2014 they won the league in 2015 -2016 so what happens in the 2014 -2015 season well they get battered basically yeah and they're marooned at the bottom of the table for four and a half months Late September and the end of December, they don't win a game. They go 13 without a win. Sounds like this season. They're bottom of the league at Christmas. They're

god -awful. But then, in the run -in, they managed to put together seven wins from their last nine fixtures to survive. To put that into context, they only won 11 all year. And they won seven of them in the last nine. Bizarrely, they actually finished 14th. But it was only six points above the relegation zone. And I think they only secured their safety either on the penultimate or the final day. The only team to have beaten them in the run -in as well was Chelsea, who went

on to win the league. And so basically they pull off one of the great escapes to stay in the league, having been promoted the year before. To say the least, yeah. Yeah, it's really great. I mean, one of three teams to survive being bottom at Christmas. If you're bottom at Christmas, you're normally fucked. Anyway, now we're back at the point where I started. We're on the Thai pre -season tour. Basically, because Leicester are owned by the Thai consortium, they go to Thailand

on pre -season. And whilst out in Thailand, Nigel Pearson's son, who was also playing for Leicester at the time, is filmed racially abusing a Thai prostitute whilst having an orgy out in Thailand. That gets into the media. I wouldn't recommend that video. No, don't need to see it. It's fairly obvious what happened. His contract gets terminated by Leicester, which is unsurprising. That happens

on the 17th of June, 2015. On the 30th of June, 2015, Nigel Pearson is sacked as the manager with the club stating that the working relationship between Nigel and the board was no longer viable. I suspect that's because Nigel Pearson was taking some bizarre stance in defense of his son. Who cares? Yes. Yes. He gets sacked as well. It would be a tough position to take that, but fair play for him for trying. I guess it's his son, blah, blah, blah. But nonetheless, you can't have expected

much. Didn't go into that negotiation with much leverage. I think that qualifies as gross misconduct, I would say. Yeah, I think that's right. So what does that mean? That means Leicester are managerless after surviving by the skin of their teeth the season before. Who could they possibly appoint?

Well... the 13th of july 2015 they announced claudio ranieri as the club's new manager on a three -year contract and that decision was met with derision basically but cue dilly ding dilly dong baby there's there's very few people in this world who i can just hear the sound of their name and it makes me smile every time claudio ranieri is one of them warms the heart doesn't it it does The season starts and Claudio is an

eccentric guy. So on the opening day, he plays Kasabian in the changing room to inspire the team. Kasabian being from Leicester, a rock band from Leicester. They don't keep a clean sheet until the 10th game of the season. And when they do, Ranieri takes them all out for pizza and champagne as a celebration. They are somehow top at Christmas because they've scored in their first 17 games. And long story short, guys, they maintain it. They pull it off. Vardy goes on

one of the all -time scoring streaks. They hang on for dear life. They win the Premier League with one of the lowest totals ever. But who gives a shit? Everyone else was rubbish that year. Especially Spurs. They managed to come third in a two -horse race. But yeah, just one of the great stories. And in a lovely twist of fate, Leicester played Chelsea away on the final day

of the season. At the time, that was the only other club that Claudio Ranieri had managed in England because he was the first manager of Chelsea under the Abramovich era. It was their first league title in their 132 -year history. It's Ranieri's only top -flight title to date. Everyone knows they were given the odds of 5 ,000 to 1, and they were the first non -Big Six champions since Blackburn in 1994 -95. But Leicester won the Premier League. That is insane. It's incredible.

I don't think money necessarily had a part to play in it because obviously, you're talking Riyad Mahrez turned into an absolute world -beater and they bought him for less than a million pounds. N 'Golo Kante. If we talk about who are the greatest Premier League players of all time or the greatest Premier League team, N 'Golo Kante is going to get a mention because he's incredible at what he does. They picked them up for nothing and somehow got this team playing this... I really

like counter -attacking football. And they mastered, because as long as it's attacking, counter -attacking football and not negative, like England sometimes played, as long as you're not sitting too deep. If you're being aggressive, trying to win the ball back and then springing quickly, and they were just doing it so well. Vardy was unstoppable.

They were just good to watch. And in the meantime, all the other teams in the league who might reasonably be expected to put up a challenge, such as Chelsea, came 10th, I think, that season. Such as Manchester City, who had a bad year. such as Manchester United who had a bad season, Tottenham and Arsenal. Arsenal had a good finish to the season. We were the two that should have... Tottenham fell away. They were the only one who was really in the

title race. Liverpool came eighth, I think, that season and just no one else wanted to win it and Leicester were never going to lose it. It was crazy. They won the league with 81 points. They drew 12 games, lost three. By 11 points or 10 points, I think. 10 points over Arsenal. Arsenal had 71. Yeah, we had 71. I guess the real question is, how much did they get Danny Drinkwater for? Because he's a Premier League winner. That's crazy. I mean, he was great that

season. He was. Alongside N 'Golo Kante. He was awful for the remainder of his career. Yeah. There's a few of the players in that team who... Wes Morgan. Yeah, Wes Morgan. Jesus. But they were brilliant. They were. Wes Morgan, a Premier League winning captain. Incredible. Yeah, crazy. I'm just having a quick look at their results, actually. They got battered by us 5 -2. Lost two of their games that they lost at. The three were to Arsenal. They lost 2 -1 to Arsenal and

5 -2. Everybody else they either drew and beat. I'm just trying to see if I can see who else they might have lost to. They had a hell of a season. They lost to Palace as well. That was it then. They only lost three games all season. Or did they? No, sorry. They lost to Liverpool. Sorry. Not Palace. They beat Palace 1 -0. Definitely beat us once. Vardy scored a screamer. Oh, yeah. He did actually score a screamer against you as well, didn't he? At their place at the King

Power. Newcastle and Aston Villa both relegated that season. Yeah, wild season. Very wild. Going down with Norwich. Bournemouth staying up. But yeah. Yeah, Villa getting 17 points. Crazy. Southampton qualified for the Europa League that year. Yeah, finished above Liverpool. Quite remarkable. And West Ham. A season never to be repeated, most likely. But who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Yeah, literally, who knows? There's only one team. I had a check of the Premier League odds

before this, just out of curiosity. There's only one team rated a 5 ,000 to one for the title. That is Leeds United. So put your bets on, boys and girls. Yeah, that's worth a little quid or two. Interesting fact about the odds. Manchester United are more likely, according to the bookmakers, to get relegated this season than they are to win the league. I wonder when the last time that happened was. That's crazy. That is crazy. Who are the all -time favourite? 25 -1 to get relegated

and 40 -1 to win the league. Liverpool are favourites, but not odds on. Liverpool, Arsenal and City are all pretty close to one another, like 5 -2 to 9 -2, that kind of spread. And then Chelsea are like 10 -1. Nice. I mean, because we've spoken quite a lot about who's favourites this year and Leicester winning the Premier League, which is astonishing. that that even happened. Which they're not going to do this year. No, on account of not being in the division. On account of not

being in it. Then let me pose this question to you. If I asked you who are the best five teams to compete in the Prem, where would you put your money? Do I have to put them in order? I mean, if you can. I know who my number one is, but I'm biased. I know who your number one is too. I know who my number two is. I put Leicester at two. Do you mean favourite or best? Yeah, like I've definitely merged those two things so you can order it how you like. But I put Leicester

number two. Because Leicester wouldn't be in my top five for best. No, they're not best but I just put it in there because it's an actual fucking miracle. Yeah. The best teams ever to I'd say the five best teams are probably City

that 100 point season. They're incredible. Or even pick any of the other seasons around there yeah Liverpool 2020 team was incredible although to be honest Liverpool last season were also very good even if the points tally doesn't quite add up or even the Liverpool team that didn't win the league the year before their 2019 yeah Arsenal obviously the unbeaten team the Invincibles I would say Manchester United 2008 team is possibly the best all -round team I've seen in the Premier

League oh really nice I had a United team that was Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, ridiculously good on the counter -attack. That lot. That was Rooney, peak Rooney, and obviously Ronaldo just before he went to Real Madrid. And Vidic, centre -back, and yeah, crazy good team. I ordered it like this, because we actually ended up for pretty much the same. So I had Liverpool 19 -20 in fifth. Most wins, earliest victory ever. Seven games before the end of the season. Easy. I agree with

you completely. You were sensational that year.

And then I had put City... from 2020 to 2024 in there over the 100 points team the four in a row team basically because you got you got 92 and 97 points in that window and came second twice and city won four in a row which hasn't been done which is insane i mean there's there's i know it means nothing and i know this is very much the kind of thing that people get the piss taken out them on the internet for but there's a 38 match period over the 2019 and 2020 season

that Liverpool didn't lose a game. Yeah. And I think they dropped two points. I think they'd drawn one game in that period or something. I know that means nothing, but it's insane how good that Liverpool team was. And the fact they didn't win the league in 2018 -2019 on 97 points is just ridiculous. When, as we mentioned, Leicester won it on 81 and deserved to, but there you go. Well, yeah. I mean, obviously, you play within

the rules of the game. Everyone appreciates that, but like... I do think that when people over... Interesting way of putting it, what are you talking about, Man City? No, sure. What I mean is you play a 38 -game season and you know that's the

parameters for determining the victor. But I do think that people that overlook those sorts of things are just short -sighted and idiots because football ultimately is about, you know, having, like, enjoying... the game as a supporter that is as a player and as a manager and a coach it's obviously about winning because you're professionals but like it does crack me up when supporters like have a go at other supporters like they have in some way contributed to or are partly

responsible in any kind of meaningful sense for the success of like their team and so like when people take joy from the fact that their team is good but isn't winning stuff and people like take the piss out of that i think that is just stupid and pathetic really like let people enjoy it generally like you can be proud of your team's achievements even though they weren't the winners like there's nothing wrong with that but yeah obviously if people are like putting on a pedestal

that suggests that it's equivalent to a league title then you know maybe you can maybe you can take them down a peg or two in those circumstances got one league title out of it It's all relative, isn't it? That's the point. There are stupid things you can say on the internet. Only one

team can win every single year. And if one of those teams is backed by an oil state and has a bottomless pit of money and can therefore hire the best manager in the world and basically go out and purchase all the best players in the world and a disproportionate number of them compared to their rivals so they can stack the bench as well. Why are you taking the piss out of the sides that compete with that? It doesn't make sense to me. But, you know, each to their own.

I guess it's Schadenfreude, isn't it? Yeah. But yes, I have number one is the boys, mate. Invincibles. I know. Fucking Invincibles. Just because, like, come on. You can't win a season without losing a game and people say that you weren't the best

that there's ever been. That's stupid. Don't read what I'm saying as... criticizing Arsenal in any way when I say I don't I think there were a couple of teams in Premier League history who were better than Arsenal all round but none of them went the whole season unbeaten and none of them and this is a really important point I never turned on match of the day excited to watch any of those other teams as much as I was

Arsenal at that time. Arsenal were just so good to watch from like 2000 to 2005 kind of period Thierry Henry particularly obviously the player I love the most in Premier League history probably.

brilliant football brilliant to watch and every it feels like i know this is probably compact compacted memories probably me compacting the memories of dozens and dozens of times i watched the match today but it felt like something happened every week because of him and because of that team yeah brilliant i actually think like i mean i was going to talk i actually want to talk about some of the players he probably probably taking us in that direction quite nicely but The reason

I put Arsenal number one as well is I agree with you. Some of the Mourinho -Chelsea teams and some of the Ferguson teams and the City teams recently, you can make a case that if they played each other, if there was a world in which they could play each other, maybe Arsenal don't win. I don't know. But the one thing I would say about that Invincibles team is they underachieved. That Invincibles team should have won the treble. They lost to Chelsea in the quarterfinals of

the Champions League. And that was the year that Porto won it with the Mourinho's title when they beat Monaco in the final. Arsenal would have played Monaco in the semis because that's who Chelsea got knocked out by. And they lost to United in the semifinals of the FA Cup that year, 1 -0, in one of the most one -sided defeats of

all time. And I know United fans will quite rightly say, yeah, but do you remember when you won the FA Cup in 2005 and you were absolutely dogshit and we got dicked and you beat us on penalties?

and you're absolutely right but they then United then beat Millwall in the FA Cup final the year that Arsenal went invincible so you know get results in those two games you drew too many games as well I know it's a stupid thing to say when you went the season unbeaten yeah drew 12 games you could have put away a few more teams yeah yeah yeah anyway it doesn't matter all that really matters is you won the title a secondary factor to that is you won invincible which no

one has done since And only one team, as we mentioned last week, has done before. Yeah, that's not serious. That was a long time ago. That's not serious. 115 years earlier. Yeah, yeah. Preston North End. Players though, mate, you spoke about the king. I mean, for me, can I, like, if anybody who listens, anyone happens across this podcast and listens to it, who is, I don't know, 20 years old, or maybe under 30 even, like, you don't understand. You're going to say things like Ronaldo.

You might even say, you know, Haaland or KDB. You're wrong, I'm afraid. You just weren't there. Thierry Henry is easily the best player to have ever played in the Premier League. Thierry Henry is easily the best player to have ever played in the Premier League. I'm just agreeing with you. Yeah. I'm not talking about easily, but yes. Do you want me to reel off some numbers here? It's insane. Could I stop you if I wanted to? He's obviously in the top 10 all -time goal

scorers in Prem. But of those top 10, he's got the highest goals to game ratio of all time. In terms of penalties, he's second only to Letizia in terms of conversions. He missed two in the Premier League. He's also their third highest. on free kicks with the fifth best ratio. And the reason that you probably think, oh, you know, you're just fucking drilling into the detail. What does that mean? What does that mean? It means it does it all, Jack. That's what I'm trying

to say here. Bangs them in an open play, mugs people off, takes a pen, hits a free kick, like assists. Made Jamie Carragher look like an idiot

on a few occasions. God, he was... ridiculous he was playing in an era where it was like Ferdinand John Terry like you say Carragher like these kind of guys playing at centre back and he scored at least 20 goals five years in a row most consecutive seasons scoring at least 20 goals five in a row most Premier League assists in a season joint with KDB on 20 only player to score both 20 goals and get 20 assists in a season like two times Player of the Season award, joint most. Four

-time Golden Boot winner, joint most. Two Prems, three FA Cups, a double. Took Arsenal to their only two European, sorry, their only Champions League final and a UEFA Cup final. All -time top goal scorer, a Ballon d 'Or runner -up in 2003, which is a travesty, by the way, an actual travesty. Was that Nedved? Yeah, I think it was, yeah. Which, you know. It was a good player, don't get me wrong. Yeah, we dumped in the quarters.

a couple of years later by the king and sesk don't want to hear it um i i think this is all i think this is all good and i think this is all important that you're talking about these stats i don't think any of it matters compared to actually watch him play yeah like football is the beautiful game and it's a beautiful game because of people like thierry henry there's been no one since and in my eyes no one before certainly in england in english football you

can argue for zinedine zidane in that context around the same time and bear in mind they were international teammates and they won the World Cup together albeit that was at the start of Henry's career and he became a more important figure for France later but the way he played the game the goals he was scoring and the versatility he had in terms of scoring those goals he scored three kicks he scored pile drivers from far out and then there's a classic slipped in down the

left hand side open up your body and curl it into the far corner which is just a thing of absolute beauty looking back. He could just do it all. The way he did it with this Gallic swagger and just such control over what he was doing, just such clear understanding that he was good and this is how he's going to express himself. He didn't go out and chat. He didn't say, oh,

I'm the best and talk himself up that way. He just showed it on the pitch and you could just tell he was just a player with such a ludicrous amount of self -confidence. I know this isn't a Premier League highlight, but... That time he takes it to the corner against Real Madrid. I've never seen a clip where a player is so in control of the situation. Who does he hop over? Is it Ramos who tries to cut him in half and he just literally just hops over him? Would it

be Ramos? Bloody hell, Ramos was playing a while ago. It was Ramos, but whoever it was. I think it's Ramos. Whoever it was, it doesn't matter. It might have been a baby Ramos. I might be getting ahead of myself, but in that game as well, he scores a ridiculous goal. Like where he just bounces off Fat Ronaldo and then gasses Gooty, goes around. Probably literally bounces off,

yeah. Yeah, yeah, gasses Gooty, goes around centre half, can't remember who it is, and smashes it across his body, left footed into the bottom corner, 1 -0 at the bow. Thanks. If it was 2005, 2006, it might have been Ramos actually because they got him in 2005. Bloody hell, he's been playing a long time. Yeah. Still going. Still

going. Yeah, the king, mate. The king. Someone asked me the other day at work, they asked me who the best player was in Premier League history, and they were more senior than I, and they proceeded to try and suggest something, you know, others, and I just said, I'm sorry. Who were they suggesting? You know, the usual suspects, but I just said, Thierry Henry is the best player to ever play in the Premier League, and I won't hear anything

else, I'm afraid. It's the least surprising thing ever, because I know you, and anyone who's listened

to this. podcasts for more than five minutes will also not be surprised by this but i do love how you introduce this as let's discuss the best players in premier league history and we've just spent the last like 10 minutes talking about just thierry henry um yeah i propose who else i propose between us we assemble a best team ever okay the premier league all right i think we can do that yeah i think we can do that where are we going back to front oh the problem the

problem is here you're going to set me off as well because we're going to go goalkeeper and i'm going to be like hmm tell me ben why is there a debate who the best goalkeeper in the premier league is why is that a thing why is everyone blind to the fact that the best goalkeeper in the premier league since he joined seven years ago has been absolutely clear and obvious to us you know i'm oh allison a guy who likes to be objective i like to check my bias and leave

it at the door but it's allison it's it's been allison it always is allison and he's so far above his peers that i don't understand why this is a question don't be wrong there's other good keepers and there's keepers who have had fantastic seasons in that time. Obviously, De Gea was brilliant for a while and then terrible for a while. Raya's been good recently. Edwin van der Sar. Edison was pretty good throughout. Van der Sar further back. Oh, going further back beyond that. Just

like the last seven years. Schmeichel and Cech. Schmeichel and Cech. Schmeichel and Cech. For the entire debate, I think it's a three -horse race. I think it's Schmeichel, Cech and Alisson. Yeah. I would narrow it down to Schmeichel and Alisson because of their goal -scoring feats. Because Percek never scored, which, you know, puts them out of the running. In this case, I can flip a coin. Piers Schmeichel was unbelievably good in a one -on -one situation, making himself

better. Alisson's a more modern keeper, though. He's more modern. Alisson, in one -on -one situations, is the best keeper I've ever seen in my life. And his shot stopping's good. His kicking and distribution is good. He's such a leader in that team. He allows Liverpool to play the way they do because they can play over high line because they have absolute faith in him, either coming off his line or in a one -on -one situation.

Liverpool were very lucky. that Kavine Kelleher is or has been as good as he has when Alisson's been injured but the team changes when he's in the team yeah yeah he is just he has so much aura about him I'm dreading the day he leaves these great Liverpool teams the past seven or eight years built on him and Van Dijk to me have had three world -class players three world -class players in that team those two obviously and Mo Salah yeah yeah I agree. Okay, Alisson in

goal. Done. Left back. It's easy. I'd be happy with Schmeichel. I should say that. He was very good too. Alisson in goal. Schmeichel on the bench. Left back. Ashley Cole, obviously. Yes, it is Ashley Cole. Fuck's sake. Fucking cashly. Can I just say... He's the best defensive left back I've ever seen in my life. He's absurdly good. Can I just say, though, the reason he's a cunt is... I mean, that's the first time we've used that word on this show. I'm not sure we

have to give a special explicit tag now. But yes, it had to come with Arsenal, that's fair. It's because I don't actually think his move objectively to Chelsea was that successful. He won a lot of FA Cups. He won two titles at Arsenal. He won one at Chelsea. He won three FA Cups at Arsenal from four finals. And then he won four FA Cups at Chelsea. So it's effectively the same number of finals. And the only, the kicker is, and maybe this justifies it for him, is that

he won the Champions League at Chelsea. Eventually, yeah. But he also made the Champions League final at Arsenal. And, you know, like, he just fucking mugged us off, mate, for money. Like, he's an invincible. He could have been a legend. And it's like, what did you do that for? You just went and played Chelsea for more money and won the same stuff that you'd already won. Great. It's been nearly 20 years, mate. Good for you. Good for you, mate. I hope you're happy. Shall

we move on? Yeah, right back. Go on. The thing about right back is, I think we're only putting a right back in this team because we have to put a right back in this team. I don't think there's a right back in Premier League history who's in the best 20 players in the league. Obviously, Gary Neville, Kyle Walker, Trent. We could play wingbacks, but if we did, we'd be sacrificing him in the midfield because we'd have to pick an extra centre -half. I wouldn't put Cole in

as a wingback anyway. Yeah. He's not good enough attacking. Is it Gary Neville? It probably is, isn't it? If you're going to pick, it's either him or Kyle Walker. I mean, Trent's obviously technically the best right back in Premier League history, but Andy won a couple of titles and I hope I'm checking my bias at the door now he's no longer a Liverpool player. But Kyle Walker or Gary Neville or Ivanovic, maybe? I don't know. Probably a bit too much for Paul. I think Gary

Neville. I think it's probably Gary Neville. I'm happy with that. Can we have Gary Neville

in to represent? the class of 92 a little bit so we don't have to then put skulls in potentially although i like skulls yeah but they're not gonna they're not gonna they're not gonna make it though are they probably not no anyway like they're all really good and everyone loves to talk about them but then they're not getting in this team there's way better players center halves center backs yeah i mean where do you begin here john terry's got to go in unfortunately i think john

terry if you put john terry alongside someone who's got a bit of pace Not that John Terry was slow, but relatively speaking, compared to a Rio Ferdinand or a Sol Campbell or a Virgil van Dijk, he obviously was lacking a bit, but he's just a leader and he's unbeatable in the air. He's made five Prem titles, five FA Cups, three League Cups, a Champions League, Europa League, 770 appearances in all comps and captain, obviously.

The thing though is that in the... A little asterisk on some of those... champions leagues and stuff but yeah he wasn't playing yeah sure but like you know you say that about roy keen and i think that would be unfair that would be very unfair on roy keen and we're probably about to talk about roy keen so yeah yeah yeah so like i think the kicker for terry though is he he was a mainstay in the oligarch era he survived the super wealth and if he wasn't amazing chelsea would have just

bought someone better yeah so so like I hate him, but I think he has to go in. I don't disagree. And I think I'd have him or Vidic. Sort of that sort of leader. Terry though. Terry's got the longevity. Big, strong centre -back type. I'd have Terry. For the other one. Yeah. Ferdinand. Sol. Van. Van Dijk. Van Dijk. Probably one of those three. Yeah. Who do you fancy? Kompany. Vincent. That's a shout. He was really good.

I might consider him more for the, I mean, I know we've sort of standardised him for the leader, big boy role, and he wasn't slow, obviously. No. But I think maybe Rio is the best out of them. Probably those two, actually. I mean, they were unreal, weren't they, together as well. And again, it sucks that we're picking these two. And we've got Gary Neville at right back and we've got Ashley Cole at left back. And England never bloody won anything in this time. Disgrace.

Incredible players. 4 -3 -3, defensive midfielder? Yes. So basically 5 -1, 3 -3. Doesn't matter. Whichever you want to call it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Defensive mid. 1 -3 probably, I would say. It's either Roy Keane or N 'Golo Kante or Rodri. It's not Rodri. Can't have that. Not yet. He's won four titles. Yeah, yeah. In five years. But like, that's not the same. Well, technically he was injured for one of them. Yeah. Oh no,

so he wasn't injured for one of them. He was injured for the season that was shit this year. So it's four titles in six years. Yeah. He's unreal, Rodri. Don't get me wrong. But like, the difference is, can I make a case against Rodri? Not because I don't think he's a wonderful player, but Roy Keane... Was the captain of his side. He won seven prems. It was a gun United team under Ferguson. Four FA Cups, 480 appearances, a treble, which I know Rodri's got, right? But,

like, he did that in a United side. He was bought from Forrest, and he did that in a United side that was, like, you know, had won the league or what have you once, I think, before he joined. But, like, were not dominant until he came in and formed a big part of that unit and led it. And N 'Golo Kante did it with Leicester and then went to Chelsea and did it again. And I feel like Rodri's just surrounded by superstars, which obviously complement his world -class talent.

But I just think it's different. It's not as good. Yeah, I think, again, it comes down to who do you think was the better player versus who do you think was the most impactful on the Premier League history as a whole. The latter is probably Roy Keane. The former is probably Kante. Kante is the best defensive midfielder in those two seasons. Yeah. He was so important. Neither of those teams would have won the title if he wasn't playing in midfield. I don't think.

Yeah. I just don't think that you can not pick Roy Keane's leadership. No, I think it's Roy Keane. Yeah. Picking captain from this team is going to be very difficult. Two other midfielders? Two from four, I think. I've got one which I think just has to go in. Even though I've just made a case against... Kevin De Bruyne. Yes. De Bruyne goes in. I think. Yeah. He's unbelievable. With... Vieira, Gerrard or Lampard probably in the other one unless I'm forgetting anyone. Oh

God, that's really hard. Again, checking my bias, I still think it's Steven Gerrard. I mean, he's the best player of the three. Gerrard's the best all -round player. Lampard's goal scoring was stupid. Yes. Yeah, Lampard's the best goal scoring midfielder in Premier League history in terms of getting himself into the box. Vieira and Keane would be formidable though. Vieira is class. If you're going for a double pivot, imagine that as a double pivot. I can pivot to a double pivot

if you'd rather. No. Just get rid of Gerrard, stick to him as a double pivot. I think Gerrard because I think he's just a better all -round player. And the longevity. He played in the league for longer than Vieira. Lampard obviously pushes him close. I think... But we don't need Lampard's goals in this team because our front three is going to be disgusting. You don't, but then do you need a lot of Gerrard skills as well, you could argue. Do you need Gerrard's passing ability

when you've got Kevin De Bruyne? next to him but then again you can never have too many good passes in your team no and also gerald's gonna he's gonna get around the place and he's dynamic as well and he's a goal threat he'll be the box to box kdb can float and keen's gonna just boot people in the air which is important yeah and distribute i don't want to i don't want this team's taking on the all -time la liga team then it's important you want to be booting them and

also roy keen is like let's not be disparaging about the man's talent he was a very good footballer oh he's a brilliant footballer so Yeah, I think that's the three. I think that's the three, just on balance. Although people would, you know, understandably make cases for the other two names. Well, front three, go on then. On the right, Mo. On the left, Thierry. And up front, Alan Shearer, probably. Alan Shearer, yeah. You'd say is the top scorer, but equally, have we screwed

over Wayne Rooney by not putting a 10 in? Yeah, Rooney's on the bench. Would he? That's fine. Rooney on the bench, yes. Yeah, that's no problem. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. Rooney and Lampard on the bench as well. Yeah, yeah. Aguero. Vieira will be on the bench. Van Dijk will probably be on the bench. Or Sol. Whoever we didn't put in out of Alisson and Schmeichel. We put in Alisson. Schmeichel's on the bench. Oh, God. Mo Salah, though. I was looking at his

records. He's so good. I think if we'd have had this debate a year ago, I might have thought about that right wing position for a second. But Mo Salah. I can't put into words how it's the strangest season I've ever seen anyone have in the Premier League, up to, if you ignore the last couple of months, where Liverpool were basically on holiday for the entirety of May. So I can ignore that. But even April, he was getting a bit tired. It's not like he ever hit a 10, but

he was always an 8 or a 9. He'd score a goal, two goals, an assist, two assists, a goal and an assist or something like that. This is it.

And contribute throughout. He was just always... doing something he was just doing bits constantly he's the player with the most uh premier league seasons with 10 goal involvements or 10 assists in the competition's history or 10 or more mean i mean uh six six times he's got more than 10 goals and assists in a season he's got the most goal involvements in a single season 47 which is insane yeah joint most golden boots with omri joint most footballers writers awards three which

i think is also with omri fifth on the all -time goals list it's a no -brainer he's 10th he's 10th on the all -time assists list like two prems yeah I would genuinely say to anyone questioning this if you're hearing this and thinking really over Ronaldo or over someone else I just think for a second he's way ahead Ronaldo Ronaldo is the best player to have ever played in the Premier League but in terms of the entirety of his career and the peak of his ability But that peak of

his ability didn't happen while he was in the Premier League. That's the thing. It happened after he left and went to Real Madrid. Yeah. In the Premier League, he was good for a couple of seasons. One remarkable season. Brilliant for a couple of seasons. And he was good for a couple of, yeah, 31 goal, brilliant season. Yeah. A couple of really good seasons. A few when he was young and developing and doing too many stepovers and getting kicked too much. But,

yeah, we can all go through that. And Mo went through that, obviously, at the beginning of his career as well. Yeah. Probably less so on

the stepover front. struggle with Chelsea but yeah I think just just really think if you're questioning that not just for Ronaldo but for anyone else just really think about how good Mo Salah has been consistently year on year on year on year yeah he's easily he walks in mate you have to be blind to it Alan Shearer willfully blind to it and Shearer just because he's a goal machine right yeah I mean imagine Shearer getting diagonal balls from Kevin De Bruyne at that back

post be unstoppable yeah exactly and then holding it up for Omri and Mo yeah jeez oh that would be unbelievable that I mean that yeah Alan Shearer is also a Premier League winner so let's not forget that yeah Blackburn 94 -95 yeah and incredible stuff he could have had more he went to Newcastle being a Newcastle fan like could have had more if there had been a Twitter of the day with a Fabrizio Romano of the day It had been signed off and done. Everyone was like, he is going

to Manchester United. Had he gone to Manchester United, he'd have had five, six more titles, probably. But he didn't. He went to Newcastle and he nearly won the title there and then got relegated in the end there as player -manager. Was he player -manager? He was, wasn't he? Oh, no, no. He retired, didn't he? And then came back two years later as manager. Then they got relegated. But even so, don't care. He's a pundit. He's not a manager. But as a player... It's hard

to point out just how good he was as well. Obviously it was the early days of the Premier League. I've really got to point this out. He's like Harry Kane on steroids. Yeah. So he retired really young from playing for England. This is another thing. 29? It was 30 years old. 29, 30, wherever he was. He retired from playing for England. He scored 30 goals in like 63 games for England. Pretty good. Scored obviously 260 Premier League goals. 260? Yeah, something like that. 260. A

lot. Which the only person who ever had a chance of threatening that. since has been Harry Kane. Obviously, unless he comes back pretty pronto, that's not going to happen. Harry Kane would probably get, you know, you'd argue if you're going to get a like -for -like replacement on the bench, it would be Harry Kane. He was brilliant in the Premier League for a great number of seasons. Ridiculous. Carried spurs with Son's help. Shearer in 94 -95. Shearer and Sutton. Not Chris Sutton.

As much of a, you know, prick as he's turned out to be as a pundit. He was great too. Those two together, Shearer had pace and power. His right boot was unbeatable. He just smashed it. His penalties, oh, his penalties. It's aspirational. That's how you want to take a penalty kick. A bit like Chloe Kelly. Smash it into the top corner. Yeah, just bins. No problem. Absolutely smashed it. I know we're diverging slightly, but obviously the Lionesses won, which is boss. Absolutely

incredible scenes. Pulling pants left, right and center by not even leading games, but still coming out victorious. Who needs to? Yeah. Yeah. Million wastes of skin. We led for a minute of one of the games in extra time. Yep. I genuinely didn't. I was not worried when she stepped up to that penalty. I was like, we've won. And then when the young Spanish girl put it wide. When Chloe Kelly stepped up, I was like, this is in the bag. I know she missed in normal time against,

was it Italy? And then she followed it up with a tap in on the rebound. But yeah, I've seen her take a lot of penalties. She's really good at them. So yes, Chloe Kelly or Alan Shearer. Take your pick for technique. Put Chloe Kelly on the bench. Yeah, Kelly on the bench. We're digressing. What I would like to know, Jack, is who's managing this team? Alex Ferguson. Yeah, he is, yeah. I mean, he is. He's won 13 league titles. 13 league titles, many doubles, a treble,

three in a row. The second he left, Manchester United turned to absolute garbage. Other than under Mourinho, where they were garbage, but at least they were sort of hot garbage. At least they were getting results. That is true. There is a direct correlation between his departure and them becoming absolute dogshit. There's two ways to go about managing a football team, shall we say. I know this is very much generalisation, but you're either an Alex Ferguson or you're

Jurgen Klopp. Either every player wants to give you a hug or no one wants to come within 50 yards of you in case you give them the hairdryer treatment, essentially. And yeah, his methods were old school, but my God, he got some... Bang average players playing in the best teams in Premier League history, like Park Ji -sung. I mean, don't get me wrong, bang average is harsh on Park Ji -sung and Nicky Butt and Luke Chadwick. John O'Shea, people like

that. John O'Shea. Yeah, Wes Brown. They're all good players, obviously, don't get me wrong. He gaslighted me into thinking that United was stacked with Man City -esque quality when I was a kid. Just because, as you say, he got like superhuman performances out of guys that were clearly very good pros and clearly very talented players, but they weren't all tier one footballers.

There was no way any one of those players, not just because of Ferguson, but also because of obviously Roy Keane and Gary Neville and Yap Stam and other leaders he constantly had rolling in and out of that team. There was no way any of them weren't giving less than 100 % every single game. And he got them fired up. He got them playing a certain way. doing it at 100 % pace and they always found a way to win. They were the fittest team. They were the best disciplined

team, generally speaking. No quit. And they just had enough quality to win titles and win games. And they weren't putting on 100 points. They weren't putting on 95 points, even like Chelsea managed one season. They were winning the title. One time they won the title on 75 points in 1997. Sunderland got relegated that season on 40 points. It was 35 points between the champion and getting relegated. that season. And it actually should have been one less because Middlesbrough got

points deduction. They'd have been on 41 points otherwise. It's mad. Yeah. It is. Crazy. But they won it. That's all that matters. Yeah. I agree. He's obviously managing this team. I mean, there are... That Pep would be a backup. I was going to say. And Klopp, not far behind that. So, the thing that's interesting... And Wenger as well, to be fair. I would... Maybe we can finish on this little debate. Those are, you've named them all, and Mourinho. They're the top

five. Like, I would struggle to order them, but what I would say is like, in Wenger and Klopp's defense, Guardiola and Mourinho have both been oligarch teams. Yeah. And with a bottomless pit of resource. And Arsene Wenger in particular didn't have that. And he broke the United monopoly. He got Arsenal their first ever Premier League title. He's the only Arsenal manager to have ever won the Premier League. He obviously did it invincible. He changed the game. Yeah, he

changed the game. Two doubles. You know, just like a pioneer, like an actual pioneer in every meaning of the word. Jurgen Klopp is not dissimilar, I don't think. Like, first Liverpool title for forever. Should have had three titles, you know what I mean? Like you say, everyone take the piss and say, oh yeah, but you know, that's what

you guys were talking about earlier. you know the league is the league sure but like just because you're if you're incredible and your rival is double incredible doesn't mean that you're not incredible it doesn't undermine that you know that wasn't articulated very well but I think catch drift yeah I mean the fact that Jürgen Klopp is considered one of the top three managers in Liverpool history says everything you need to know yeah when the other two managers are

Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley yeah esteemed company yeah i think those two deserve like some sort of acknowledgement of the context in which they created their success because i think jose and pep are unbelievable like marino When he came, I just remember, like, I'd never seen anything like him. You know, this, like, swashbuckling, charismatic, overtly arrogant. I think he's really underrated. Oh, he's so good, Mourinho. Like, first Chelsea title, back -to -backs, you know,

three league titles. Incredible stuff. I used to hate him, and I'm sure you used to hate him, and I don't know what your feelings for him are now. I am warming so much to him. He's box office. The older and older I get, and the more I look back. It's not just because he's box office. I just think he's a genius. Yeah, he is. I think he absolutely understands football. From a tactical sense, I think he's up there with the best he's ever been. Like, he's in the top 10 in terms

of the pioneers in the sport. And you might disagree it's not the way the sport should be played, but it's effective. He understands how to win. He's been successful at different teams. But he doesn't just understand how to win. I think... The point you've made there about him being effective at different teams, you could never accuse Mourinho of not getting the absolute maximum out of the sides he's managed. I think every club he's managed... For two or three years at least, yeah. Yeah,

yeah, yeah, sure. He did nothing last forever, but I don't think anyone he's ever managed can say that he didn't extract the most out of them. No, certainly not. What else can you say? He's been successful everywhere he's gone, pretty much. Apart from Spurs, but what can you do there?

Yeah, but he got Spurs to a final. they sacked him I've never managed Spurs in the final no because they sacked him on the eve of a final absolutely insane decision what a football club yeah yeah I know I've never known a team to fail to capitalise on the position they've been in so badly as Spurs Spurs should have won something like they should have won a title obviously they won the Europa League last season don't get me wrong but that 2019 obviously they got to the

Champions League final they've been challenging a couple of Premier League titles before and they just let it slip They did not replace some of those players who were aging, the core of that team. I agree. Yeah. And like, don't get me wrong. I don't want to sound like, you know, I've said this before about Spurs as European trophy. I would, I would, I would happily take it if it was my team, of course, but like, let's get it right. They've won a diet European trophy.

Like listen to our champions league episode. If you want to understand why we think that it's heavily, it's quite a long rant about heavily, heavily diluted tournament. Yeah. Certainly this year it was. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, at least Pep, mate. Do we really even need to say anything about Pep? Well, Pep's the pedigree. I mean, obviously, it's an easy place to go to say he played under Johan Cruyff. And Johan Cruyff obviously was part of an incredible footballing pedigree.

Stretching back to... Dutch team in the 1970s and inherited this the total football mantra and understanding of positional play and the cerebral way he went about playing and coaching and obviously Pep's inherited that part of that dream team at Barcelona but he's built on it so much and he there was sort of this period but after 2005 they sort of as I mentioned they've weakened the offside law a couple of times and suddenly there's more space appearing in front

of defences and the way tiki -taka and that sort of approach to football just exploited that and moved players around and created space obviously all football is built on what comes before you but he has been so incredibly important like when 100 years from now when you're talking about the annals of history and how football came to be what it is at any given time he is such a huge cog in that with that barcelona team and then obviously with city later on even if you

can obviously criticize where City's ill -gotten gains, if you put it that way, or whatever else. But nevertheless, they wouldn't have won four titles in a row, a treble, and everything else if they had an average manager. You just can't. They had the best team, and they had the best manager to go with it. Yeah, six titles, 100 points, a double, a treble, four in a row, doesn't happen just because you've got lots of money.

We'd like to dismiss it like that. Let's say it wouldn't have happened if they didn't have lots of money, but just because they have lots of money doesn't guarantee you that. Teams have had lots of money before, but they've not dominated like that before. Exactly. In fact, on that point, I think that the only other managers to have ever even won this league are Kenny Dalglish with Blackburn. Legend. Carlo Ancelotti with Chelsea. Legend. Roberto Mancini with Man City.

Very good. Yeah, Pellegrini with City. And Ranieri with Leicester and obviously Arnie Slott. Arnie Slott. Love him. With Liverpool. And what I'm trying to say there is that Blackburn were rich. None of them were English. None of them were English, yeah. Blackburn were rich. Carlo Ancelotti at Chelsea, they were rich. City are rich. So only really Ranieri and Arnie Slott. I mean, Liverpool are rich, as they're proving this summer. Let's not pretend that Liverpool aren't rich.

Sorry, I don't... We just don't have a billionaire investor. Yes, that's what I'm really... When I say rich in the context of talking about football these days, one has to differentiate... Football is rich. Everyone is rich. Yes, yeah, yeah. You just have to differentiate between the filthy, astronomically rich and the rich. But Leicester definitely weren't rich. Leicester definitely weren't. They were okay. They had been bought

out. They were well -supported. Yeah. But as we saw as years went by, That quickly disappears when you overinvest and now Leicester are not rich. Certainly not rich anymore. No, certainly not. Even despite their FA Cup win. I don't know if there's anything else to cover, mate. I'm just excited for it. I'm just going to go off and watch some highlights now. Dennis Bergkamp highlights. Dennis Bergkamp. Dennis Bergkamp. Thierry Henry highlights. Matt Letissier highlights.

Yeah. What a player, though. Did struggle through COVID, though, didn't he? I mean, his highlight reel is like nothing else. Yeah, he was unreal. How can a player put that little effort into football and be that good at it? It's incredible. Yeah. I mean, if we start going down that rabbit hole, we'll be naming people forever. There's been some real talent. And it's all on show again. Starting soon. Strap in. Predictions? Put your money where your mouth is? Oh, mate, I'm never

going to not stop dreaming of the Arsenal. But I think that you must start favourites. You're the current champ. That's fair. You've still got Alisson, Van Dijk and Mo. You have spent an inordinate amount of cash on some very talented forwards, particularly Wurz. I would just say Man City, they will come back hard. They've still got a great team. I agree that City will always be there or thereabouts because they're a wounded

animal. I think Arsenal are going to be competitive, but I think that our season hinges on how effective Big Vic is. 100%. And I don't know how effective he's going to be. He could go completely either way. I agree. The one thing I would say about him, and I know this is not any kind of scientific measure, he does have main man energy. He doesn't seem to be... That's not how you normally describe it. That's not the word you normally use. He just doesn't look overawed. And I guess that's

a good foundation. It's only observational. I think so. He just looks like he wants it, you know? It's always difficult as a striker because you get criticised if you don't score goals, even if you're being really effective. And someone like him can be really effective, even without

scoring goals. If you look at the classic target man striker of days past, Didier Drogba and the like, it doesn't matter how many goals you score, sometimes you will... create space for those around you bloody blah etc and also have a lot of talent around him so that's true i think he probably will score goals though it would help i think he'll make you better he will certainly make us better uh gives us more options king kai will still be doing his bit it would help

if all of our players hamstrings didn't explode simultaneously this time and if referees didn't fucking send off all our players excuses excuses excuses for kicking the ball away despite not enforcing that rule Ever again, it seems. Okay, okay, okay. Come on. We nearly got through the whole episode. What, without going in on VAR and the PGMOL? Jesus Christ. People will spare people. We'll just do a whole episode on that sometime. Yeah, we'll spare people that for now.

I'll give you an unplugged mic and just have you rant for a couple of hours. I do think Arsenal could do with a bit more on the left side. So maybe another signing there, but we'll see. But yes, I think it's going to be very fun. Chelsea will be a threat. I mean, it'll be very interesting to see what happens with regards to the likes of Newcastle, Villa, United, Spurs. Because I think Thomas Frank is a very good manager. I do too, yeah. And Brentford for that matter.

What's going to happen to them and a couple of the other teams at the bottom? Oh God, they've been gutted, haven't they? Wolves and Brentford and some others. Obviously the newly promoted teams. Brentford, one of the great stories. 2007, 2008, they're in League 2. Yeah, they've had a couple of good seasons. I think this season, what were they? 11th or 12th? 10th maybe? They did quite well this season. Yeah, they did. But they've always been there or there about a relegation.

Never quite in the mix. But generally they're all there about. So I don't know. I'm worried about them. They've lost Frank. They've lost Norgaard to us. They've lost Mbwemo. Looks like they're going to lose Visser. They need to reinvest somehow. Fingers crossed for them because we like Brentford. They need to get it right. Yeah, me too. But not at the expense of Leeds. Not at the expense of Leeds. Leeds is Leeds. I really hope Leeds stay up. That would be nice. Anyway.

Who would you like to see go down? Fuck off Burnley. Yeah, Burnley, fuck them. Who would I like to see go down? Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur and Manchester City after a thousand point deduction. That would be nice. That would be good. Who do I realistically think would go down? I don't care for Burnley. I don't care about Burnley. I would like to see Sunderland stay up and I'd like to see Leeds stay up. Same. I think Wolves are... Yeah, Wolves are a bit benign, aren't

they? They're a bit championship now, but we'll see what happens. Yeah. But anyway. And one more. One more. Spurs. Spurs. I don't think that's going to happen, mate. Sorry, Tottenham fans. I know. I'm an Arsenal fan. Yes. All right. Well, everyone should know where to watch it because we basically told the story. Yeah. Amazon Prime have a few games and TNT Sports have a few games in England. And I'm sure lots of places, lots of places around the world have lots and lots

of games. And you watch three o 'clock kickoffs on a Saturday. If you're not in the United Kingdom as well. So bonus there. Yeah, you can. That's crazy. You can't watch them in the UK unless you get it on a dodgy feed, obviously, which I would never do. Never. Good boys here on the Almanac. All right, nice. Well, where are we going next week, Jack? Next week, all being well, I believe we are going to really, really early preview the Women's Rugby World Cup. That'll

be fun. As in it doesn't start for a long time.

we've got a pretty packed are we sandwiching that in with the rugby championship i think so yeah yeah nice we'll do we'll do a rugby doubleheader a bit of rugby yeah nice yeah and then it'll be the us open the week after tennis oh yeah arthur ash lots to come as there always is in the sporting calendar it never disappoints excellent well see you see you soon then pal yeah see you soon bye once more thank you for listening again to the sporting almanac podcast if you enjoyed

this episode then as always a like a subscribe a rate or comment would be great but please do tell your friends and family first and foremost it only takes a second and it means a lot to us the tune onto the intro is from low town music and our theme tune is oh yeah by harmonia productions you can find us on instagram and blue sky at the sporting almanac or drop us an email at the sporting almanac podcast at gmail .com Next up, it's some more Rugby Union ahead of the Rugby

Championship and Women's World Cup. Until then, enjoy the football while you still have all your hope and stay curious. Remember, sport is nothing without the history that makes it. Goodbye.