How to Escape the Drama Triangle

Brian
Hello, and welcome to the Somatic Coaching Academy podcast for our episode 74, How to Escape the Drama Triangle. Ani, how are you? I'm good, Brian. How are you doing? I'm doing great. How do we get out of the Bermuda Triangle? The Bermuda Triangle.

Ani
It feels like you're so trapped when you're in the drama triangle. Actually, a lot of people don't even know they're in the drama triangle. They just know that they're in drama and they can't get out.

Brian
So I love that topic. When we talk about drama, what do you mean by drama? How would someone even know that they're in drama?

Ani
Oh, you know. It's like it's just conflict. Well, when we describe the drama triangle, you'll understand because you either feel like a victim of something, or you feel like a perpetrator, or you feel like you've got to save somebody. Okay. There's that conflict, and those specific archetypes can really show up. If you feel like you're identifying with any of those roles, you're definitely in the drama triangle.

Brian
I heard you say three roles. I heard just say the... Tell me them again.

Ani
The victim. The victim.

Brian
The perpetrator. The perpetrator.

Ani
And the hero. Now, can I just pause for a second? Because the drama triangle has been used for a long time, Brian, and some of the language that I'm going to use is it differs when you look at it in different places. It can differ slightly. For example, the hero might be called the rescuer or the... I said perpetrator. Anyway, those roles can have a little bit different names sometimes, but they basically mean the same thing. I'm just using the victim perpetrator hero as I'm describing it.

Brian
Are we talking about one person or three people have to be in this triangle? Or what's the story?

Ani
That's the cool thing about the drama triangle. Actually, when we're in drama, we usually identify with one of those roles. I feel like the victim, or I feel like the perpetrator, or I feel like the hero, I've got to save somebody. When we really take a step back, when we can widen our perspective to really look at what's going on, the cool and crazy thing is all of those role delineations can shift, and we can see how the victim is actually also the hero, and the perpetrators actually also the victim. And it gets like this. It's like a top spinning You know I love patterns. I love looking at patterns. It's one of my favorite things to look at this drama triangle dynamic and see how it's playing out from all the different angles. Now, let me tell you, my client may not want to hear about that, though, because we get really attached to our roles. A big part of escaping the drama triangle, as we're going to talk about, actually, is being able to disidentify with that role and being able to try on a new one. But people can get really attached to their roles.

Ani
And like, no, this is how it is. The reality that I'm seeing, I'm telling you, it's true.

Brian
As you're talking about these three roles, it makes me laugh. I think about cartoon I used to watch as a kid, Dudley Do-Right, where there was a Penelope. I can't remember her last name. It was a P name. Then there was this dastardly guy that always tied her to a railroad track, and Dudley Do-Right had to come save her all the time. Every episode? Yeah, every episode. It was this game.

Ani
Is that a pattern?

Brian
This game I used to play as a kid, when I had hair, I used to have a comb. We carry around combs when we were in elementary school. This little game we used to play, you take the comb and it could either be a bow on the top of your head or a mustache or a bow tie. We play the game was, I can't pay the rent. You must pay the rent. I can't pay the rent. You must pay the rent. I can't pay the rent. You must pay the rent. I'll pay the rent. And so you've got all of those- That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

Ani
It's all of those things. And it's like the same person moving the comb, right? Yeah. When you really look at the drama triangle, you can see how they all not only interact with each other, but if you look at the situation in a different way that actually the roles can change for the same person.

Brian
Can you actually have drama triangles interlocked with another person? I have my own drama triangle going on, and I'm a victim in my drama triangle. But I'm having drama with you. I could be maybe thinking you're the perpetrator in my triangle. But in your triangle, you could think that you're the victim, and I'm the perpetrator.

Ani
Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. It's like a top spinning. You can look at it from all kinds of different perspectives. There's definitely those three roles, though. Those three roles are always happening in some capacity. And I think one of the cool things about being able to identify that is to be able to say, oh, my gosh, I'm in the drama triangle. But yes, you can be in your drama triangle. I can be in mine. The thing is, too, I can decide I'm not going to be in the drama triangle anymore, and I can do my resolving thing. And you might decide that you might not even know how to get out of it. You might not even know you're in it, and you could still be in the drama triangle, but I don't have to be. And I think that's something that's really awesome, because so often with drama, we feel like, I've got to get you to change or to see something different so that I can get out of this.

Brian
Interesting. It's not true. So what I think is interesting is I'm thinking about me. I have so much drama in my life. Drama king. The times I have been in drama in my life- The one time? The one time I was in drama in my life was- You just don't participate. I could see. I'm like, whatever with the triangle. I could see pretty, pretty, probably easily and quickly identifying with the victim in the drama triangle. I could see pretty easily identifying with the hero in the drama triangle. I wonder how often people actually self-identify as the perpetrator. I keep wanting to say villain, the perpetrator in the drama triangle.

Ani
I have in my life, and it's been very painful. I'm being totally serious. I remember- 

Brian
Was I the victim in that one?

Ani
You were. Nice, Brian. Maybe sometimes, owie. Yes, because I can have mean tendencies. But that's not what I was thinking of. I was thinking of some major trauma that we had in our personal lives when we got together and was being blamed by a lot of people for the circumstance. So I did look at myself and say, oh, my gosh, I'm the perpetrator in this whole thing.

Brian
Oh, yeah. Okay. All right. All right. Yeah.

Ani
And it was incredibly painful. But if you listen to that on some degree, you'd think, well, maybe she's taking personal responsibility But I was still in the drama triangle because there was still a victim, wasn't there?

Brian
Right. So there's someone that you had to have been perpetrating.

Ani
And there was still the hero. The people who were yelling at me, thought they were doing a good thing. So I saw them as trying to be the hero, for example. But no, most of the time when I've worked with people with this, they are identifying as the hero.

Brian
Most of the time, they're identifying as the hero, okay? Correct. No, I think that would be a socially acceptable and a place to be, right?

Ani
Exactly. I've worked with people and with myself where they feel like they're the victim, but that is a less socially appropriate role to be playing. The most socially appropriate role in the drama triangle is absolutely the hero. I have heard more often when people are in the drama triangle, they're the hero. Now, here's amazing, right? Because when you feel like you're playing the hero, a lot of times you don't recognize you're in the drama triangle. It's easier to recognize when you feel victimized. When you're playing the hero role, you're also stuck in the drama triangle because there must be somebody that you have to rescue.

Brian
There's always that tension of what we're calling it drama, but it sounds like there's always some type of attachment to the role. What I think is really interesting, too, Ani, what I can imagine is a lot of times we talk about the idea of the thalamus putting off this pulse every 10th of a second, creating a filter for how we see the world. I could see that if you were stuck in the drama triangle as any one of those roles, let's just say the victim role for a second, then any interaction that anybody else has with you, you would automatically create a filter of you being victimized by whatever else is going on. Also, it sounds like, do we automatically then also project someone else into one of those other roles? Is that part of the thing? We can't be in a drama track by ourselves. We need to actually be in the drama with somebody else. It has to work. Yeah.

Ani
It's not always a person. For example, I could feel perpetrated by life. Oh, interesting. The universe, God, right? Mm-hmm. So that thing plays out, too. So there's still a role. It might not be a person, but there's still a role. One of the reasons, Brian, when I created the Find Your Soul's Agenda process that we use for purpose work, I won't say I did this consciously, but when I looked back on it, I was so excited about this. The process is called the Soul's Agenda, as if the soul might have an agenda for us. And we can see and we can listen to that soul's agenda and think, Oh, there's a destiny and a plan for me. But we can also hear into it like, the soul has an agenda that I didn't sign up for. Interesting. When we work with the soul's agenda, part of the resolving factor with that is to understand that when life shows up like we like it to show up, and we don't like it to show up, we're still on purpose. In that way, it actually helps us to step out of the drama triangle. The Soul's Agenda process actually helps somebody to step out of the drama triangle in a powerful way so that they can see that they have more empowerment over their life And the universe, God, life in general, is not a perpetrator of their victimization.

Ani
Yeah. Waiting for a hero.

Brian
Right. Yeah. So that's really interesting. So I heard two things. Number one, we're always on purpose. Us, even if we don't feel like it. We're always on purpose. Having that acknowledgement and leaning into that truth is a way that you can break out of the drama triangle, number one. And then number two, I think the interesting thing about the drama triangle and having hero be one of the characters in it is we also have been socially conditioned through comic books and media that the hero actually does liberate us or save us from whatever. The drama triangle sounds like it presents it in a way where it breaks through that illusion. It does. That the hero is actually a liberator. The drama triangle puts the hero actually in a role of still being trapped.

Ani
Absolutely. Every story that we've read, every movie that we've watched has had this archetypical journey, like you said, the hero's journey. There it is to help us to understand that we need to wait for a liberator.

Brian
Okay, interesting. Okay, so I'm trapped in the drama triangle. I am- Trying to get out. Taking on a victim role, a hero role. By the way, it's like, who wants to give that up because we all want to be a hero to somebody, right?

Ani
Well, I don't because I don't want to be in the drama triangle. But I see what you're saying.

Brian
If you didn't know that, it's like, Oh, I want to be seen as a hero, and I want to save the day.

Ani
A lot of people get their self-reliant.

Brian
Be appreciated and all that stuff? Yeah. Okay, but let's say I'm stuck in the drama triangle. How do I get out?

Ani
There's this idea that's another triangle. It's called the empowerment dynamic by some people. What I've seen as I've read about this and learned about this is that most of the time the drama triangle is called the drama triangle, but I've seen the empowerment dynamic called a few different things. The idea is that there's still three roles. So the victim becomes the creator.

Brian
Victim becomes the creator? Okay.

Ani
And we were just talking about how do you transmute that energy? And it really is about... It's not about busting out of the drama triangle, because that actually would be like an embodying hero energy. I'm going to break free. But to become the creator transmutes the drama that you're in into, "I have the ability to create in my life". Now, the other parts of that triangle are the challenger and the coach. The challenger is like that perpetrator energy might be where the challenger is going to be like, you can do it and spur you on. So I'll describe this in a second. The coach would be like, how are you going to do that? That would be the resolving factor for the hero. Okay. Okay. We've got this. I'm in the drama triangle, and I'm feeling this victim energy, and I want to get out of the drama triangle. I want to get out of it. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to start to see myself rather than the victim as the creator.

Brian
So you specifically shift and resource the element of the empowerment triangle that matches where you are in the victim triangle? Is that what you're saying?

Ani
It's an easy way to step out of it. It's not the only way to do it because this whole thing is a dynamic, and there's so many different dynamics that play within it. But that's one thing you can do. It's a good entry point. If you see yourself as a victim, you can step right into the role of creator. When you're the creator, the person who you used to perceive as the perpetrator can be perceived now as the challenger.

Brian
I see what you're saying.

Ani
The hero could be perceived as the coach in this new dynamic. Now, one of the interesting things that I've found is people are trying to step out of the dynamic Because sometimes the hero is in there trying to totally mess with your stuff. Rather, you can start to advocate for yourself as the creator to what I need and what I want. The person who was being the hero can step out a little bit more and start to be the coach rather than the person who's trying to fix it.

Brian
Actually, it sounds to me like, I can't pay the rent, you must pay the rent. I can't pay the rent, you must pay the rent. I can't pay the rent, you must pay the rent. The coach then would say, so how can you learn to pay the rent on your own? Exactly. Instead of I'll pay the rent. The hero goes from being the one who saves and becomes the one who now empowers the victim. Yeah.

Ani
Cool. Yeah, exactly. This whole thing plays out with a lot of different things that we do here at the Somatic Coaching Academy. One of the interesting things, I think, somatically is you can find in your body each of these different aspects of the roles of the empowerment dynamic to be able to shift from the drama triangle, because sometimes trying to think yourself out of it intellectually is so hard because we get so attached to, 'no, you're the perpetrator of my problems. You should be saving me, and you're not doing anything' or whatever dynamic is at play. We can really just be so attached to the reality that we see is actually happening. But when we start to experience something a little bit different in our bodies, we can start to shake that up. But also, as we start to experience something different in our bodies, all of a sudden, we are the creator because I just modified my sensory base. How did you do that? Well, I just did it. Well, you just created it out of nothing? Yes, I did. You're the creator. Yes, I can. And there we go with a whole new dynamic.

Ani
So back to your question about if two people are steeped in the drama triangle, I can step in to my choice to be in the empowerment dynamic, and I can stay and live there regardless of what you choose. To me, that's true liberation, because I'm not attached with that triangle anymore to how you're choosing to be because I'm going to choose to be over here. And sometimes people will come and join you out of the drama triangle in the empowerment dynamic. Sometimes that will happen. Sometimes people will not choose to do that. They will choose to stay in the drama triangle, but you still get to be liberated. Okay.

Brian
Yeah. I can see how challenging that would be to be in a relationship where you recognize that you're in the drama triangle. The other person or people in the relationship don't recognize that they're in the drama triangle. Then you decide to, Wait, I want to choose the empowerment dynamic, so I'm going to take my triangle and disconnect it from these other triangles. Take my triangle and leave. I can see how some people would be like, how challenging that would be for them. If we're talking about taking your triangle and leaving, and that feels painful for someone, what advice would we give them?

Ani
Well, I got to tell you, when I worked specifically with couples, one of my favorite things to do right in the beginning of the engagement is to bring this in as common language. Because when there's... And usually the couples that I've worked with, I'm trying to think throughout my brain, but I think most of them are married couples or business partners. To bring this language up right away helps people to have a common language that then when they make I statements, they can say, I feel like I'm in the drama triangle right now, and I feel like I'm trying to play the role of, or I am playing the role of. It just gives a language around it that can really completely shake up the context. Because when I'm in a relationship with you and you and I don't have common language, not just about this, but about anything. It just is really hard to communicate and move forward together. It is. Having common language around what you're working on is really helpful, and this is one of them. I always recommend that clients who are working with couples and business partners and stuff like that watch a little YouTube video or listen to a podcast like this together.

Ani
Let's put it on in the car and listen to it. That way, they have some common language to talk about that dynamic because it's so powerful, isn't it? You both get to be creators if you choose.

Brian
If you choose. What I thought was, as you were talking, too, I was imagining a scenario where we're both trapped in our own drama triangles, and I decide that I'm taking my triangle and leaving. And as I start to leave, I get all of the, Oh, but you can't do that because... Or even your partner says, Now I feel abandoned, and all that stuff. What I would be thinking about for me as I'm going through this little imaginary exercise around it is I would ask myself, Oh, my God, if I feel compelled to stay in my drama triangle, which role am I addicted to?

Ani
Yes.

Brian
Because when you look at it from the outside, if we say if you're in a situation that is not helpful, healthy, functional, and we don't remove ourselves from it, then there's something else going on under the surface where for some reason we feel like we're gaining more by being in that situation than if we left it. Leaving it feels painful because our subconscious feels like it's giving something up to doing that, even though we know it's not healthy to be in it. I can even see how that feels like you're in the drama triangle and trapped and maybe even a victim of it. But if I were to pull myself away and I feel like, No, I can't do it, I would ask myself, Okay, right now, which of those roles do I feel like I can't let go of? I think for me, that would give a lot of information about which one of those roles probably is the stickiest for me.

Ani
Yes, that's a really wonderful way to put it because somebody could decide, I'm not going to be in the drama triangle anymore. I'm going to go over to the empowerment dynamic and just like, we can't pay the rent, how can you pay the rent? You could start to coach somebody, and then all of a sudden, you're the perpetrator. Right. They are trying. In their story. And then, oh, my gosh, was I still connected to the hero role? And I really didn't see it. And I thought I got out of it, but I really didn't. One of the most powerful ways, again, to really step out no matter what role you're in, into the empowerment dynamic, is simply to step into the creator role yourself. Because remember, the roles are all in this interesting dynamic. So when you can step out and rather than trying to, quote, unquote, fix it by being, I'm not going to be the hero, I'm going to be the coach. Like, hang on a second. You step into creator for you, then what happens next? And that whole dynamic will start to become.

Brian
So you're saying the shortcut. If you're not sure where to go, step into that creator role, and that will break the illusion or the drama, attention or the attachment to the triangle. Yeah.

Ani
And by the way, you can be doing this within yourself. You can be playing the victim, the perpetrator, and the hero within yourself.

Brian
Yeah, certainly.

Ani
Totally. You can do the same thing with the empowerment dynamic. You can be using it with different people, but you can also be using those dynamics within yourself to change the frequency of what's going on.

Brian
Really? Oh, fascinating conversation, Ani. I love it. I love it. Any final tip, any final tip for our listeners around the drama triangle and how to get out? Well, I can- You talked a lot about it, but you have any last words?

Ani
Yeah, I think there's just two things to remember. First of all, if you feel like you're a victim, a perpetrator, or you're the hero of a situation, after this conversation, you can pause and say, Oh, wow, I'm the drama triangle, which creates awareness. We talked about that, what, two weeks ago about making- The four steps of conscious change. Conscious change. So all of a sudden, you have awareness, and you can decide if you want to change something. So recognizing when you're in the drama triangle, and then when and if you do, simply attempting to step into the creator role for yourself is just a really easy translation to get to something different so you can experience a new reality.

Brian
Oh, cool. I love it. I love it, Ani. Thanks so much for walking us through the drama triangle today.

Ani
Yeah, it's been something that's been really powerful in my own life to help me to get out of drama. I know you haven't experienced a lot of it, but I've experienced plenty for both of us.

Brian
I live in a circle. We'll talk about that next time on the Somatic Coaching Academy podcast.

Ani
Bye, everybody.