Three two one zero all engine running lift off.
We have a lift off.
Welcome back to the UFO Show.
Dan, I have Ty Hildebrand. He is Dan Rubinstein. This is the solid verbal. It's our Friday UFO show today, the Unsuspecting Friday Orbit Daniel, which we'll explain in a little bit. Sir, how are you?
I'm pretty good? I showered, cleared the mind, feeling focused and centered. We're recording the UFO Show and then that's going to be followed by the Bruin a for the Patreon subscribers that can be found at verballers dot com. But really feeling quite good, Ty, I don't know what it is, but because you came up with this fantastic theme for the UFO Show, because the questions are really inspiring a bunch inside of my brain for the brune.
Hopefully you are you see that. I have so much excitement that the pop filter keeps moving on my micro flooring, so much electricity. Okay, so yeah, quite excited for this recording, Sash.
Don't forget, as Dan mentioned, for Ballers dot com, if you're interested in checking out our Patreon and all the cool stuff we're doing over there. If you want to listen to and watch the Brune. You can do so on the Patreon.
We're gonna drink beer and go places, right, is that what's happening on the Brune every week. We're drinking beer and going places.
That is what we do. That is what we do. I've got my Soliverble pint glass here, which I will brandish proudly. Yeah.
Same. All I'm gonna say about the Bruine is it's a it's a bigger, better, more open and thorough Tie hilden Brand.
That's right. I think that's right. Then you get on here.
Okay, that's all.
I think that's right. Uh. Soliverble dot com is our website. That's where you can subscribe to the show. Also the newsletter. You can find it out there. All the usual hotspots right, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. Got a YouTube channel where we post some of the clips. We obviously post larger ones on the Patreon feed. Why don't we jump into news? Okay, the last breaking news drop that we did took a little bit out of the voice. Boop boop boop.
Hey Hey hey what was Carol Baskin say?
Hey?
I like cool cats and kittens?
Hey all you have cool cats? And kittens.
It's time for breaking news. Boo boop.
So I think we've got what is it, fifteen more games that have been canceled or postponed this week. As per usual, now, it's just kind of the table stakes we go on out there. We do our preview show, it drops on a Wednesday morning at six am Eastern, and we just sort of expect that along the way there will be announcements. There could be some additional announcements before the end of this recording. But here's what we got.
Games that have been canceled or postponed. Ole miss at Texas A and m Georgia Tech at Miami, Charlotte at Marshall, Texas at Kansas Central, Arkansas at Louisiana. We've got wake Forest at Duke Arizona State at Colorado, Houston at SMU, Navy at South Florida, Ohio at Miami Ohio, Utah State at Wyoming, UAB at UTEP, Louisiana, Monroe at Louisiana Tech, you NLV at Colorado State, and recently Michigan State at Maryland as Mike Loxley has reportedly tested positive.
Yeah, one of I believed twenty three positive tests. In the past week or two. So Maryland is certainly not in a good spot with regard to positive.
Testing, not trending in a great direction. This was much the case a week go. Hopefully there aren't more games that are added onto this list because it's already quite lengthy. But you know, it's only Thursday right now at time of recording, so there's plenty of time for things to go sideways in a few of the other contests.
Yeah, hopefully it doesn't. But yeah, last week was fifteen. We're at fifteen right now.
Correct, That is correct?
Yeah, okay, And so we've got half of Thursday and all of Friday and perhaps into Saturday for more. Hopefully the number is zero moving forward. Also notable JT.
Daniels. You may remember that name. He transferred over to Georgia from USC. He got hurt last year at USC, couldn't play, transferred over, got immediate eligibility with Georgia. We've been waiting for a while for him to be cleared medically to actually go out there and play on a Saturday. And clearly we've talked a lot about Stetson Bennett and Dwan Mathis and the quarterback and more broadly the offensive
situation at Georgia. Jamie Newman opting out for sure, Jamie Newman Right, it's been a bit of a revolving door at the quarterback spot for Kirby Smart. JT. Daniels is going to be getting to start this Saturday evening in Sanford Stadium against Mississippi State. So this much awaited arrival of JT. Daniels is set to begin. We'll have to see if he gives them anything more at the quarterback spot. I think he will. I know you and I kind of disagree to what extent we should be excited about
what we already know of JT. Daniels at USC But yeah, it's I think a good time for Georgia to be able to trot somebody else out there, because that quarterback spot in particular has definitely been a bit of a pain point over the last couple weeks.
Yeah, and I suppose if he looked incredible in practice after the Alabama game before a bye week before Kentucky, then we probably would have seen him then. Incredible physically and incredible in terms of picking up the offense. I imagine it's more physical than the latter with regard to why we haven't seen him yet with some of Stetson Bennett's struggles. There are four games left. Obviously this year does not count eligibility wise to anybody who doesn't want
it to count for them. So that's not a you know, a red shirt deal like it would be having those four four game maximum under his belt. So I'm hopeful that they Georgia has just reached a point where they are ready to see JT. Daniels and he has reached a point physically where you know, he looks good and ready to close out these these last four regular season games for the Dogs. So hoping to see a little more spark from this Dog offense.
And speaking of the quarterback position, our final news tidbit here, Florida State is likely going to start Jordan Travis at quarterback against Clemson, and that's because Chubb A. Purdy had season ending surgery dan so it was on his collar bone. He broke it during a preseason scrimmage and aggravated it
during the game this past Saturday against NC State. He underwent surgery for the original injury, and apparently he was always going to need a follow up procedure to remove a plate and some screws, but that surgery was obviously expedited because of what went down this past week. So sucks that he's not going to be out there, but you know, to some extent, this was at least an expected procedure for him.
If he is the future, protect your future. No point in him gutting something out for the rest of Florida State season.
I agree, that is all I have, Dan, Do you have anything further, No.
I think that's all that's worthwhile to talk about. Perhaps we will have something out, but there's always online to talk about it further. So I think we move forward with our game unsuspecting Friday Orbit.
Are you familiar with the online game among Us before today? No? I wasn't among us. So today's game is based, however, loosely on the popular online game among Us. It's a fun game. It costs like five bucks. It's gained a lot of popularity in the age of COVID, where people are trapped inside and playing more virtual games and connecting online than ever before. In this game, it's one of those deals where you're all in a space capsule spaceship and one in some cases two of your crewmates have
been replaced by parasitic shape shifters. Daniel m hm.
Of course. Yeah, yeah.
Their goal is to eliminate the rest of the crew before the ship reaches home. The impostor or posteurs will sabotage the ship. They'll sneak through events, they'll deceive, they'll frame others to remain anonymous.
And kill off the crew intentionally, morbid dark.
It is twenty twenty here we are.
That's true.
We are playing a modified version of that.
Okay, how does it go?
In our version? I'm going to talk about four ships of college football coaches. One coach on each ship is secretly destroying their respective football program, not necessarily the others on the ship. It's a brotherhood, this coaching rank.
Okay, so this is it's a squadron of ships, and we need to figure out which captain is sabotaging. Is traitorous? Is treasonous? Is subverting the goals of the ship for his own game.
To some extent? Yeah, except it's not so much a crime against the other coaches on the ship. It's really against their respective program.
You get the true, right, So we're figuring out which ship is being subverted.
Okay, we're figuring out who on each ship is secretly destroying their football program. All right, so here's the deal. Let's go to ship number one. Here are the crew members on ship number one. Dan, We've got Jim Harbaugh coach of Michigan, Justin Foo and Ta Foo and Ta coach of Virginia Tech, Dana Holgerson of Houston, and David Cutcliffe of dh whoa David Cutcliffe of Duke.
So I need to figure out or we need to figure out which of these four. So Jim Harbor as it relates to Michigan, Justin Fan, is it relates to Virginia Tech, Dana Holgerson as it relates to Houston, David Cutcliffe as it relates to Duke, who is working against their own team? Among these four.
Coaches, that is correct, who is most working against their own So it's not Jim Harbaugh trying to murder Dana Holgerson or versa. I don't think they would get along to you weirdly, yes, weirdly yes, like I think it would be. I think the road trip would start out awkwardly and with a little bit of bitterness at the first rest stop, but then they'd be singing like Chris Farley and Tommy Boy with David Spade. Yeah, that's where I think we're going with this. Okay, anyway, so are we each waging in.
Or is it just me?
No, it's a conversation, Dan, Okay, it's a conversation. So here's the lay of the land here. The hardball thing is well documented in the national media, among Michigan media, certainly among the two of us on this show.
Mm hm.
We haven't talked a whole lot about Fuente, Holgerson and Cutcliff. I think cut Cliff's are really tough sell here because it's Duke.
And he's the best modern duke coach, without a doubt, best modern duke coach, without a doubt. The program has stalled.
It has stalled, and if anything, has gone a little bit in the wrong direction. But still, relatively speaking, I don't think it's a situation where what Cutcliff's doing is actively bringing Duke down. So I think that narrows the field to Harbaugh, Fiuente and Holgerson. Dan, does it make sense?
Yeah, they go what five and seven last year? They're not playing well at the moment, but before that seven, six, eight and five they had you know, a ten win season twenty thirteen, nine eight, So they're like, these are including bulls. So yeah, I could see why you would think it's headed in the wrong direction. But it's Duke.
It's still Duke of the remaining three yea who's actions as head coach are most actively bringing down their program.
So I don't think Jim Harbaugh's is intentional, Like I don't think. I mean, I don't think anybody's intentionally really, But you know, if there is a crime with Jim Harba, it's a crime of passion. He loves Michigan football too much to let it go to the hands of anybody else, so he's destroying it from with it. And I don't think it's Harbaugh. I don't think it's twenty. I think
it's Holgerson. I think the whole red shirting debacle last year, where after the slow start and the injuries and the transfer, like, I think that decision and we saw reports of a chasm I think between Dana Holgerson and the players pretty quickly. There were reports, I think from a couple offensive linemen. I think that would be the move right there. I think if I were to put this game on any
of these coaches right now. I have it on Dana Holgerson that he is a captain without a plan and that's actively working to disrupt the well being of his ship.
How do we feel about so I agree with you that Holgerson's probably the answer here. How do we feel about Flente? You know, we haven't talked a whole lot about Virginia Tech this year because, yeah, it's been a weird year. They're what four and four now overall. Fuente's first season was ten and four overall, won the Coastal, won the Belk Bowl. Seemed like things were going in a good direction. But since then it's been kind of a slow drip. Nine and four the next year, second
in the Coastal lost the bowl game. Twenty eighteen, six and seven overall, third in the Coastal lost the bowl game. Last year eight and five, second in the Coastal lost the Belk Bowl. Yep, who knows what we make of this year? Who knows where they finish in the ACC as a whole, right, I mean, to some extent we throw all the records out, literally the window in twenty twenty, But you know, there's a lot of discontent. I think in the Virginia Tech universe because it's tough to follow
a legend. It's tough to follow up Frank Beemer, who had a ton success in Blacksburg for so long, and outside of Hendon Hooker, I know, I've compared Virginia Tech a bit to kind of like the Northeastern TCU. There's kind of that feel of inconsistency and treading water there. Sure is it fair to even put Fuente on this ship? Sure?
I mean with the direction of the defense, which I think is improving and will improve. But of course he keeps Bud Foster on and so there's the continuity thing, and I don't know if it fully became his program until Bud Foster retired. So yes, the answer is yes, because of the loss is the way, the spectacular ways in which Virginia Tech loses, that preparation, those in game adjustments, those in game decisions. What losing by Liberty it's a three point game. They lose by Miami, it's a one
point game. The North Carolina game was wild. I think they came back and then North Carolina had to score a bunch of points. Other than that North Carolina game, their win expectancy was in the positive for the other three losses. They should have beaten Wake, they should have beaten Liberty, and they should have beaten Miami. And so the in game element of Justin Fuente on this list actually makes some sense.
All right. So our answer then is going to be Dana Holgerson.
Dana Holgerson, yep, oh, Mary morbid, it's just the slow drum beat of horror.
Dana Holgerson on Ship one.
We've got so is that somebody beating the parasite with a metal I instrument?
No, I think that was the parasite murdering one of the non parasites with some.
Sort of instrument. Wow, Okay, alright, p Clayton too. And I guess look, we're all big boys here, Dan, I cast we're all big boys in twenty twenty is dark ear okay, Chumber two, don't care what you're into, doesn't matter, it's all dark. Okay, steer into it.
Ship two Gus Malson from Auburn, Scott Frost of Nebraska, Kevin Someone Arizona, and Gary Patterson of TCU. This is a very tough ship, very tough ship to try and figure out Dan, which of these coaches again, is either on purpose I hope not on purpose, or yeah, not on purpose bringing down their program more than the others. Any thoughts.
I'm not sure, Kevin, someone's heart is in it enough to give the effort to thoroughly take down Arizona. That's a guest from Afar. I don't know. You have to be a motivated parasite, right, you have to have some
sort of motivation here. The interesting question to me is not which of these coaches is actively try trying to subvert their program and is that militaristic, murderous parasite from within, but who of these coaches, Gus Malson, Scott Frost, Gary Patterson is doing the most damage to the mental health and wellbeing of their team's fan bases.
Okay, this look, this is open to interpretation.
Open to interpretation, Dan, Yeah, that's where I'd like to go, because to accuse somebody of mutinous behavior is that's heavy, even for twenty twenty, even if it's even if it's by accident, that's true, right, Like we're just talking about not people who wish to do harm to their programs, with people who are doing harm without knowing it. So between Gary Patterson and the almost no offensive evolution and
momentum forward these past few years. Scott Frost, who with now years and years into his tenure, what we're three years in now doesn't seem all that different. And the ways that they've lost Nebraska have been both spectacular and heartbreaking because it's been in the last second and also just not competitive at all. And then Gus Malson just anytime you think Auburn's really good, they just look awful
and vice versa. I'm gonna say Gus Malson. I'm gonna say Gus because the hope that Auburn gives its fan base at multiple times these past few years, Iron Bowl wins, NFL draft picks, recruiting classes, they're on a level that Nebraska and TCU are not. So I'm gonna say what Gus Malson has done in weaponizing hope is ultimately is ultimately the most violent emotional harm anybody has done to a fan base. Of these three coaches.
I think Malson's got be the answer. I think it's I think it's it's got to be the answer. When I look at these four, I said it's got to be malas On. I don't know how like you can't blame Scott Frost. Scott Frost is starting from a different point, and I do believe that if given enough time, he can build it up. But it's gonna take some time.
It's gonna take some time. Kevin Someone, Look, Kevin Someone, does not feel all that different to me at Arizona than he did at A and M. He had better players at A and.
M, right hired some of the same assistants, some.
Of the same assistants. Feels basically like the exact same like outcome here, and so if that's not long for Tucson, that would compute for me. But I just think it is who he is. He's not doing anything different, and Arizona signed up for it. They just knew what they were getting. The Gary Patterson is interesting. Patterson, if you've seen him on any of the ESPN Film Room broadcasts during the National Championship, is he's like a football savant.
He's dominated him, he dominates him. He doesn't shut up, but he knows what he's talking about. He's a good coach. It's a great watch. If anything, he's he's a little intimidating just as a football presence. When he's on those broadcasts because he knows so damn much. But it does feel like we've gotten to a point with TCU where perhaps that Virginia Tech slash TCU comparison holds, because there is a there's a treading water type of feel to
this program, especially on offense. Especially on offense now Max Duggan has been a bit of a revelation. It's just been kind of disappointing that they haven't really been able
to build up a whole lot around him. Defense is always solid, but you do have to wonder a little bit if there's some sort of stubbornness or some sort of quality there that is preventing them from getting to the next level offensively, even though presumably they've they tried to get the band back together on offense right with their hirings, and you know they're trying to really get
this thing going. It just hasn't quite materialized. So I think you could make a case for Patterson, but I think the Malson answer is just too compelling, especially if you want to frame it as someone who's trying to do harm to the fan base, either intentionally or not. The whole will they won't they complex of Auburn being good year in and year out is frustrating for us frankly, as like podcast hosts, not even Sharburn fans per se.
So eventually, one of these days that ride will be over for Melson, but it will probably be when you least expect it because he's been here before. I know, we've talked about it at nauseum about ah, this is going to be it for Melson, and it doesn't seem like it ever is. So one of these days it'll catch up to him. It just hasn't yet and probably won't in twenty twenty.
Yeah, I think that the Patterson thing is more just the ship needs repairs. We need engineers to look at the thrusters. What should we do. He's like, ah, I got it, I know what's going on here. And he's not very good at diagnosing offensive issues and finding the engineers and mechanics to diagnose everything on the ship. And that's that's a problem.
Our answer here than is Gus Malson, Right.
Gus Mileson absolutely has weaponizing.
Hope gets dark. That's quite the sound effect, isn't.
It, And really cuts cuts pretty deep.
Tie Ship number three m clay Helton USC, David Shaw Stanford, Mike Leach new Hire at Mississippi State, Sure, Dave Dorin at NC State. So we could go a number of different directions here, But who's doing harm to their program without knowing it? Who is doing harm to the fan base without knowing it? Maybe without trying? There are a couple names on this list that I think are compelling.
So the Mike Leach one, I think is somewhat obvious because whenever Leach is out of place for an extended period of time, it seems he wears out as welcome. Where's out as welcome? Happened at Texas Tech, obviously at Tech, happened a bit at Wazoo. The early going in Starkville has not been great, but no to say, well, the early early going was amazing. The early early going the first week, yeah, incredible. But since then I left a little bit to be desired.
Just got awful. Yeah.
The Clay Helton answer, I think is one that Look, if you read the description for this show, if you've listened to the first two ships, you knew Clayhilton coming. We're going to talk more about Clay Helton. Right, Let's talk about David Shaw, though, let's talk about David Shaw. Stanford has very notably taken a step back, then, very notably taken a step back. Is that because of Shaw? Is that because of talent? Is it because Shaw not getting the right talent or the right coaches? What is
going on at Stanford? How much of that do we place on Shaw?
Well, they had a bunch of transfers this year, a bunch of seniors transferred out. I think because they didn't get into grad school at Stanford. I think things shifted in the way that admissions worked there. So their depth has taken a hit. They've missed on a couple quarterbacks basically since Kevin Hogan and Well regarded highly recruited quarterbacks, four or five star guys. And defensively, the talent hasn't
been there like it was seven nine years ago. They have, you know, this linebacker's good, or this corner is really good, or this safety's good. There's NFL level talent on that defense. But it's just the depth isn't there. And so that's recruiting, that's evaluation, that's development, that is assistant hires. And so I think David Shaw sort of falls under the Gary Patterson element to me where still is well regarded for good reason. Everybody likes David Shaw. He's smart, he's thoughtful.
He has by and large succeeded at a place that's pretty difficult to succeed at in Stanford. As great a school as it is, as you know, great a location weatherwise and everything like that as Stanford is.
It's tough there.
It's tough to attract assistance, cost of living super high. I get it, but I don't think he is. I don't think he has that switch where what he's doing is so actively working against the program. I wish he would be a little bit more aggressive on offense with play calling and you still, you know, far far too conservative for me in what Stanford needs. Dave Dorn n C State's having a nice enough year, a nice enough bounce back. I don't love their staff, and especially on
the offensive side. You know, Hirington back is never an excitement thing for me. But has NC State lost to anybody they shouldn't have this year, Like given the depths where the Wolfpack were last year, I guess maybe you can argue Pitt with some of the lows of Pitt, but they lost to Kenny Pickett, I believe, and they lost by a point on the road. They beat Virginia, they beat Duke. They lose to North Carolina, which fine,
you can give up fifty North Carolina. A lot of teams are in North Carolina's just better than NC State. And I know n C State was at a much better point three four five years ago, but even still, they had a really an incredible shot to beat Miami. They just beat Florida State. In retrospect, the win over Wake Forest looks better than perhaps it did early on. And yes, you lose to Virginia Tech, that's fine. We're talking about losses till at top thirty, top forty schools.
NC State is squarely an average to maybe above average team in the ACC. Yeah, and guess called Dave dorn for as a saboteur in this situation.
Situation, Guess what had he not gotten hurt, Devin Leary probably would have been there. They're star quarterback this year he had.
Probably it's Miami.
Yeah, a pretty impressive showing. The Bailey Hawkman's been fine the early going. But Hawkman has been fine. Yeah, he has been fine, So I agree with you. I don't think it's Dave Dran. I don't think it's David Shaw, But let's talk about Clay Helton. Clay Helton. If you go on out to any website that tries to track coaches on the hot seat, you're going to find Clay Helton, if not at number one, at least in the top three, top five. He just has to be there because USC
is never void of talent. They've always got it. They're in a fertile part of the country. When it comes to recruiting, it's a program that sort of recruits itself and at least in the early going, I think so you would know better than me, but they've never had probably getting football players to go to USC didn't recruit.
It took a year off of recruiting itself. Yeah. Uh, down to Coronado Island.
It's it's a wonder that we're in twenty twenty talking about Clay Heilton. This is another guy who was reportedly getting fired a handful of times and still hasn't don't know if it's going to happen in twenty twenty given the climate, but it does not feel like he is long for USC. The question I guess would be USC twelfth out of twelve.
In the class of twenty twenty. In the PAC twelve twelfth only twelve commitments two Blue Chips out of those twelve.
The question that I have is is Clay Helton doing anything more wrong than any of his predecessors, Like, is he worse than the last guy? Is he doing something that is actively dragging this program?
I think the anger among USC fans, if we're gonna look at the fan base, is more with the administration. Like I don't think people fault USC for making the decision to hire Clay Helton given the success he had as an interim coach, but given the extension I believe after the Rose Bowl. Maybe that's wrong, but I'm going to put it out in the universe anyway. I'll look
it up as I'm talking. And the opportunity to replace him with somebody that fans felt would do a better job at USC and the administration not doing that, be it for financial or otherwise reasons. I don't hold it against Clay Helton. I think it's more of the like, remember somebody tweeting CJ McCollum to like, win a playoff series before you can talk or something like that, right, And CJ McCollum tweeted back, I mean we love CJ.
McCom He's Lee high right, Yep, I'm trying, Jennifer. I feel like Clay Helton is squarely in the I'm trying Jennifer mode. He really is trying. He's just the Clay Healthlton ship doesn't have the thrusters. It doesn't. It just doesn't. So I'm going to go with Leech here. I think I'm gonna go with the arrogance of Leech, the public behavior of Leech, the sort of self awareness about the Mike Leach brand above all else about him, the disconnect
with the Mississippi state culture upon arriving in Starkville. I'm gonna go Leech here.
Don't hold back, man, tell us what you really think. Yeah, I think that's an easy one. I think it is, too, because do you see players just full on bailing. There's like, nah, I'm done full on bailing. Yeah, Dorin, Shaw and Hilton are all trying their best. They're trying their best, and you know, I think in at least two of those cases, it's a tough place to win. The Clay Hilton thing, that ship's been taking on water for a while, not to mix our metaphors here being an outer space and all.
But you know that's not necessarily news. The Leech thing came in, and it's caught a lot of people by surprise when he took that job, and obviously caught the sec by surprise with kJ Costello throwing for a record amount of yardage in week one, and then things have really gone sideways.
Do you hear a giant mower outside?
It's that time of the week again, isn't it.
That time of the week. Absolutely was. I was so hopeful. I'm ready with song to essentially celebrate you saying Clay Helton is a nice guy. Everybody says Clail is a nice guy, and you didn't do it. But I'm so upset because I was ready with a song.
Well, the thing is dan about Clay Helton. Everybody says I'm a nice guy. You know.
Oh yeah, we didn't do a fantasy thing this year because it's just you. You control a fantasy thing about Clay Helton is a.
Nice It's true, It's true.
All right, Yeah, I was ready.
Leech is our thanks are here. Just get this out of our system. Have to do it, man, Oh my God, it's going to haunt your dreams brutal. The last ship this is, I think the hardest Tom Herman. Tom Herm immediately selected somebody Chip Kelly at UCLA, Jeremy Pruett at Tennessee, and Dino Babers at Syracuse Dan. I don't think there's an obvious answer here. Again, who is either knowingly or unknowingly bringing their own program down, knowingly or unknowingly putting
their fan base through undue anguish? Who is your eye drawn to here, Charles chip Kelly? Really why the recruiting thing? UCLA is not a difficult place to recruit too. Yes, there are academic standards, but they have long recruited very, very well in Southern California. I like to make the argument, though, that some Southern California talent is wildly overrated for whatever reason, just because everybody wants Southern California players to be really good.
Where the culture of high school football isn't necessarily robust enough to produce as much blue chip talent as people perceive it to produce. I think what Tom Herman has attempted to do is hires have not always been on point.
We've talked about beck Meyer syndrome. I think he is turning over every rock. I think he really is trying. I don't think his actions point to something so egregiously wrong. It doesn't look like it's fully working out, that his decisions haven't worked out. Same with Jeremy Pruitt. Although the recruiting is there, some of the improvement is obvious. Some of it it just look at twenty twenty isn't as obvious. But the defense isn't the problem in Tennessee largely. They've
got guys on defense. They recruited the offensive line pretty well. Dino Babers. That's just a tough job. He did a good job with the players he inherited. I mean, the quarterback injuries have been brutal. Offensive line injuries have been brutal, and I you know, I don't know if there's a reason that we can point to so many injuries and so much dumb luck with Syracuse. But I don't think
it's Babors. I think he's a totally good coach. I don't know if he's worth having a conversation about as an upper power five level candidate like he has been these past couple of years. But I think he's fine chip though with the recruiting he's done at UCLA. I'm never a huge fan of building hope around a guy who is on his way down, and like it or not, the reality is, you go up to Philly and then things go downhill. It in Philly, go to San Francisco.
It was just not going to work out in San Francisco. He's only there for a year, the ownership and he apparently didn't get along, and so he takes a year off. And he's like, well, I like the West Coast, and UCLA is you can you can bring talent there, and the Pac twelve is pretty winnable, and I think he is it appears to be. And listen, nobody loves the Heights of Charles ship Kelly more than I. But his tenure at UCLA points to I don't know if it's arrogance.
I don't know if it's just a stubbornness of like, this is how I succeeded at Oregon, this is how we will succeed at UCLA. And to not recruit on a level fitting of the Bruins and expecting to outperform the talent you bring in, I don't know it just strikes me as working against the program and working against the ceiling of the program, which Jim Mora was a totally good coach. At his best, Ucla was a competitive team. Ucla filed it some you know, some years it was
an incredible defense. Some years it was you know, I remember those Paul Perkins offenses. Brett Hunley. I just UCLA should always be an eight ish win caliber team, and they're just not, and they haven't looked anywhere near it years years now into Chip Kelly's tenure.
There counterpoint counterpoint to Herman.
Okay, give me the answer for Herman.
I don't know if I have any answers on this ship. I don't know if any of them are Well.
If you're firing two coordinators the same year, that's on you that you hired coordinators, that we're we're both not working out and both not taking the program in a direction that matches your vision.
If you truly want to pivot and talk about the effect on a fan base, the Herman angle is interesting to me, you know, like I think if you look at Baber's there's not really a fan base angle there with Syracuse. There are Syracuse people who listen to this show, but you know, the Texas fan base is much more notable. The Jeremy Pruett angle is interesting. I think there's a recognition among the Vols base that there's a deficiency at
quarterback that they need to solve. They haven't yet, but it does feel like the Allen has gotten better and the team as a whole, the depth and whatnot is it's getting there. Chip Kelly, Ucla that fan base. You could tell me probably better than anyone about the UCLA fan base. I don't know if it's quite as hungry for a national championship or even a nine win season as they are in Texas.
I think they're just they're hungry for competence. That's hungry for at this point.
Yeah, the Tom Herman thing, though, like the whole is Texas back question, it is of course a stupid joke at this point and way overplayed. But to your point about UCLA, like they should at least be a eight win program, should at least be competent.
Of course, in a time where USC is down, it does feel like Texas should be getting a lot more out of this program, and it's felt that way for a while. But think of the hype that followed Tom Herman to University of ten at Austin, Sure and beat out LSU for him. Yup.
And there's no doubt. There's no doubt in my mind that he has gotten them up for big games. He is a big game coach, Tom Herman, and he's been on this show. We love Tom Herman. I think he's a smart dude. I think he's a good coach. He's a nice guy. But it feels to me like there's
there's a lot of meat left on that bone. And if you're a Texas fan, if you're watching this team week in and week out, if you are feeling like the talent is there to try and organize better and potentially win the Big twelve, get a chance into that playoff, like I understand coming away very unsatisfied and a bit aggravated by that, even if you still generally like Tom Herman.
So I think there is a case to be made for him over Chip Kelly, because I know that the fan base is just it has much higher expectations, let's say, than they do a UCLA.
Well here's the other thing with Texas, right, they're in year four. Now, this is a very different year for everybody. It's not an excuse, but it's just a reality. Right, It's different for everybody. Penn State in a normal year probably doesn't look like this, right, Michigan in a normal year probably doesn't look like this.
Now.
It speaks to their ability to push through adversity and obstacles and things like that, and it's not a great look for schools like that. There's just I don't know if you have friends like this or solid wife Kate has friends like this, where there's just there's always something. You're like, hey, do you want to meet up for lunch and like, well, yes, but there's always something. There's
always something. With Texas playing against Texas Techa a pretty flawed team and year two of a new coach sixty three to fifty six. Last year, you're playing against the Kansas team, an awful, awful Kansas team, and they fire their offensive coordinator, they make an analyst, they're new coordinator. I believe that was the order of succession, and they it's like sixty to fifty nine, fifty nine, fifty seven.
The Oklahoma game goes a bajillion overtimes and they lose, so like they're giving people hope that they're on Oklahoma's level and they play Oklahoma State, they play terrible, but they win a clunker against a good team.
You're like, Wow, we have the ability to win our club.
There's always something. It's always something with Texas, And I don't know if it's a recruiting thing. I don't know if it's a culture thing. I don't know if it's coordinator or an assistant, a malaise, a game planning, a treating their five star players like celebrities, whatever it is, it's always something. Texas can't just go ten and two and beat everybody they should and maybe everybody they should comfortably and lose to teams that.
Are slightly better. Can't do it.
Always something ty that's the case for Tom Herman to me in year four, he doesn't have them at least to that point where they're just outclassed, but they beat everybody they should. I think I think the answer is still Chip Kelly. Okay, my case is more convincing there that in terms of this game.
In terms of this game, I think the answer is still Chip Kelly. But this is hard for me. This is a tough one for me. I really wavered between Herman and Kelly, But I.
Still don't fully understand the game just going. They're just going from a gut here.
If we put Chip Kelly, Mike Leach, Gus Malson, and Dana Holgerson on the ship, who is the chief among.
Oh my god, those Champions League parasite? Yeah, so who is sabotaging? Who is subverting? Oh Man? From a leadership position? We're asking who, either voluntarily or involuntarily is doing the most harm the program that they are at, or with your new twist, put the fan base through anguish hard that. Yeah, I mean, Gus is still he's still doing more good than the others, right, Dana Holgerson at Houston, Mike Leach a Mississippi State, Chip Kelly at UCLA. Gus has done
far more good for Auburn. He's taking them to what a national championship he's taken, He's won the SEC, He's beaten Alabama multiple times, he had you know, was the coach of the most memorable play in recent and modern college football history in the kick six, the offensive coordinator on the CAM team. So there's good will. I think it's got to be Leach, right, I think it's Leech it's got to be Leach because he's just getting started.
He's just getting started, which we have seen coaches, Oh god, he goes through you.
We've seen coaches start off disastrously as they try to shift the direction of a program, perhaps schemat culturally, whatever. So it wouldn't surprise if as Mike Leach got more of his own guys made you know, shifts with the assistance or whatever, that Mississippi State become a threat in the SEC. Year one was always going to be rocky. I don't think anybody predicted to this extent, but it's a tough year one for anybody given the circumstances.
And it's a wild ride too. It's a wild ride after that Week one experience to kind of end up.
That's the thing too though. I mean we've we've reevaluated where LSU is as a as a team and as a program right now. So let's see Texas Tech his first year, and they were in a better place, I believe when he took over in two thousand. They go seven and six. Washington State absolutely in the dumps, they go three to nine, one in eight in the then Pack twelve. Yeah, I was a Pack twelve by twenty twelve. That was the first year I believe of it. One in eight is these are his pack twelve records, So
he's almost in a Bell curve like parasitic place. One in eight, four and five, two and seven auspicious but showing some some feist, some improvement six and three, seven and two, six and three, seven and two. Holy hell, what a stretch twenty fifteen to twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, three and six. So you know, bringing in JC quarterback after JC quarterback with what Anthony Gordon and who's the quarterback for the Jaguars now that was there? Jor snash Garment.
Yeah.
Yeah, So that's never a great sign where you're not developing quarterbacks and you're relying on JC guys year after year. And so yeah, starting out, it's it could be the bottom of the Bell curve, but there's it feels like there's going to be a curve in Mississippi state one way or the other.
Let's play it just one more time, just you know, just to really drive home point.
Oh, which of these teams? Okay, so let's stick with my my slight pivot. So of all these what sixteen teams? Yeap do you think is the absolute worst fan experience in terms of I'm a fan of X team and they do nothing but haunt my dreams, whether it's giving me hope and then tearing it down or just beating me down to such an emotional low point that I no longer can feel things.
I think it's got to be Nebraska.
You think Scott, the Scott Frost relationship to Nebraska fans I a most brutal.
I'm not even counting Scott Frost in that equation. I'm just saying that the combination of and we see it like Notre Dame. Notre Dame's a good example, right, a traditional blue blood. It's a lot of success. Over the years, the game, to some extent has kind of moved at a faster pace than the institution could keep up with. And for a long time with Notre Dame, it was the same deal where the expectations did not change, but the game around the program did.
But now that they've admitted that their independence is no longer a defining factor of their program, well they've taken nice steps forward.
They've closed the gap. They've closed the gap, and they've taken that You're right, they've taken great steps forward, and Nebraska, to me, feels like they are in that they're kind of trapped in that limbo state where the expectations are still there, maybe not quite to the same extent as they were at Notre Dame, but they're still there, and the program is constantly trying to figure out ways to play catch up, and a lot of that pressure now
is on Scott Frost to deliver. I hope he gets time to do so, because I believe he is the right guy for the job if given the opportunity. I've given enough time to But I can imagine being a fan of that program and just kind of constantly wondering when is it going to happen, When is it going to happen? Is this the year that we see some progress that we can build on to take that next step to get there? So for me, I think it's Nebraska. You can make a case for Virginia Tech as well.
I don't know if expectations at Tech are are ever going to be as high as they would be at a place like a Nebraska.
Men, Virginia Tech hasn't been that good in a long time.
Though It's been a while, right, It's been a long time. Yeah, so you could make the case, but I think it's to a much lesser degree.
Okay, So the coaches who have teased though that have teased their fan bases with recent enough success. So you have Tom Herman and the Sugar Bowl with Texas, right, they're like, oh my god, we've ascended to this level. We're a New Year's six program. We beat this blue blood in Georgia, fellow blue blood in Georgia, and we
have turned a corner. It seems like since that moment it has been nothing but pain as a Texas fan that they did make what the Big twelve Championship game, like, they're you know, they're they're performing well enough at times, but their lows are so even they're wins, in those lows, they're always something factor that's brutal as a fan, TI you know this, Yeah, I would say the Gus Malsonics
experience has been trying, for sure, really really trying. I think it's probably worse to be a TCU fan than an Auburn fan, considering that TCU was right there on the edge of the playoff. They win the Rose Bowl twenty ten, they had an amazing I think twenty fourteen season with Ravon Boykin, and they're right there. They lose sixty one to fifty eight to Baylor, and that changes
the calculus of everything. And then there's just this hunt to recapture, right that these like this failed dog, the bounty hunter character in Fort Worth, that they're always hunting to recapture and that is maddening to me that they were so crazy Razor Thin close to symbolically making that leap, Whereas the Nebraska experience was always I mean, it was fine during the bow Polini. I mean not five volatile
during bow Polini. But I don't think Scott Frost has done anything other than the outside expectations to do too much harm. It's been rough the way Nebraska has law. It's rough, Don't get me wrong, It's definitely rough. Arizona I don't think qualifies here. USC is tough because they had that blip with the Rose Bowl, the twenty seventeen team Sam Darnold, but they've largely not been consistently good for over a decade. You have your a Lane Kiff in season and then that's sort of it. NC State
I don't think qualifies here. They're down, but they don't qualify UCLA doesn't qualify the Tennessee experience. Hmm. Interesting. The Tennessee experience has been it has to have been awful. I don't know that they've had the hope. I mean, they've had the off season hope, but they haven't had the in season winning hope. They haven't, you know, they don't all of a sudden trounce Florida or beat Alabama and like okay, we've broken through and then that have
them have it ripped from them. So I think they're close to being in that category. But I think it's more Texas and Michigan.
Yeah, I think I'm with you, Dan, I really do. I think it's.
Texas, Michigan. Maybe a dash of TCU, a dash of powdered frog.
I hear you. I still think I go Nebraska, Okay, but I hear you.
Is Nebraska's best recent win the lost to Ohio State two years ago?
It might be.
Yeah. I think like, hey, look, I mean if you look at any article, like longer article about Nebraska's offense and Adrian Martinez, which was just bench, it's it's man, look at look at that spark he had that that stretch of games in the back half of twenty eighteen really gave Ohio Say everything they could handle. It's the best recent win.
Weird game today, Dan, I loved it.
I loved every second. Thank you.
Way in Solid Verbal at gmail dot com. Don't forget to give us a call as you're watching the games here in week twelve, four oh eight Verbal one is the reverblind four oh eight eight three seven two two five one. We will cut those up on Sunday and play them as part of our reverbs segment. Dan, We're going to hit the stop button now and then we're going to do our bruin A. I've got a beer here next to me that will put hair on your chest. I don't think you could handle this beer.
I definitely couldn't. I'm not with that description, absolutely not.
So with that being said, I think this is where we bid everyone a fond to do and wish everyone well for the weekend. Stay safe and by all means stay solid.
Peace.