Undefeated Feldman Orbit: An Interview with Bruce Feldman

too essentially being unemployed. And I asked, Bruce what and this I did the interview myself spoiler right now, but what ed arsand was up to in that year gap he took a gap year between when he was hired by Les Miles as a defensive line coach and everything that happened at USC and what that added to his path and then how everything came together for twenty nineteen Joe Burrow stuff, Joe Brady stuff, David Randa stuff, and even touched on how we look back on it now

knowing that the PostScript flip the script post script, you see what I come.

I guess we'll get into that. Well, we'll get to hear all of that, But what was your initial takeaway from I guess Bruce's takeaway of the conference.

I think that's across the board. Those are the new coaches, but a lot of new coordinators, big time coordinator hires, big questions, And we don't really talk about playoff stuff because I don't know at this point in the Pac twelve season that doesn't seem fully relevant and where the

back twelve has been these past couple of years. I just want to see good football and improve football in the Pac twelve, and I think Bruce is aligned with that, and so he weighed in on his thoughts on Oregon losing what they did, but what the guys they have back can possibly do along with Joe moorehead and Jimmy Lake at Washington and the experience of Keaton Slovas at USC with that new Todd Orlando defense on the other side, and possible optimism with the Arizona schools and UCLA and

so we get onto a lot of the PAC twelve mountain top just in terms of ten thousand foot view of the conference, so very I mean, he's out west, he knows all these guys he's going to you know, he's at their practices in normal times, so he's a relationship with a lot of the people in the conference. So really cool to have Bruce Way in. And obviously, as you know, aside from the book flip the script, you can listen to to Bruce with Stumandel on the audible and read them at the Athletic.

excuse me. I think it's Tulsa Navy is off. I don't want to get that wrong and say two Lane Navy. I know it's a tul but I'm verifying now. It is Tulsa Navy that has been it says postponed, with no makeup date announced at the moment. So there's that. Joe Rossi, the Minnesota defensive coordinator, has contracted COVID. I haven't seen anything regarding symptoms. I hope he is all right.

And to sort of bring it all full circle, so obviously Rossi will be missing Minnesota's game against I believe Illinois. And to bring things sort of full circle just with a show Bruce Feldman is involved with. I don't know about his specific health, but because of COVID protocol, Big

Noon Saturday. So it's Urban Meyer, Rob Stone, your Boy, Brady Quinn, Reggie Bush, Matt Liinert are all quarantining because of Fox Sports COVID protocol, and so there will be no big Noon Saturday this weekend hosted by the normal people. If that's a show you watch, I think they're bringing on like a manual a show and stuff like that. Who's great, But I think it's a bunch of NFL people. I want to say, just standing in. We were available. No longer because we're insulted, but we were available.

the Pac twelve for everybody. And also so we're going to tie this tie UFO show to the I Guess guest as well on this Undefeated Feldman Orbit.

jump in and out of local broadcasts. It's really cool. I said this time and again. It's been my secret weapon over all these years. I'm glad that we finally get the promo with because they do an awesome job jumping in and out of broadcasts to get something like fifty six minutes I want to say, of actual play by play coverage every hour. It goes all day long, all throughout the college football Saturday. So if like me, you're going to be out there in the world, you

can't always be perched in front of the TV. Maybe you're making your own window of opportunity. I don't know, whatever the case may be for you, College Football Blitz is where it's at. They can help you stay up to date, of course, until you get the Sunday or Monday and get a chance to listen to Sliverble.

the Athletic I don't know, Big Noon Saturday. I mean, I honestly, we could turn this show into your resume. But Bruce Feldman, thanks for coming on.

sequel for this? And I really didn't think I would, But I did follow Ojon's career from after a spectacular flame out at Ole Miss and then he gets on and you know this where eventually get to be the interim head coach after Lane gets fired at USC and then right you know, things really turn up for him and go in a different direction, And I think, to flip the script, term really came from basically in Dan

and Bruce parlance. You know, he basically pulled the Costanza and he did everything the opposite of all his instincts

at USC, and it worked. Now, I don't think it was as as simplistic as that, But because he had been through the process of his battles with substance and he's now twenty years sober, but his issues with alcoholism, I think he's he's learned from the recovery process and taken those lessons in that really deep look inside of like, hey, you know, I may I may not have had a great relationship with my ideal miss, and I may not have the resources and this and that, but ultimately it's

I got to look inward with me first. I can't make all these excuses and on other people and blame other people. I got to start with me. So I think he learned from his own mistakes then when he got to USC, and certainly when he was a Tennessee, he was Lane's right hand man there, and then he was certainly a Lane's right hand man at USC. So he when Lane gets fired, he sees all this stuff that Lane has been doing and how he's running the program.

And he was like, we're going to flip the script and do all these things basically opposite to get guys respond. And it's crazy because as you know what his persona is. I had asked him, I said, you know, you're kind of doing it George Costanza here, do you know what that is? And he kind of knew who George Costanze was, but he's he's not a Seinfeld watcher.

he would commute back to see them sometimes. Know, when he was at USC, the kids were in high school, he did not want to move them, so he lived in the Radisson near USC and that was for a few years. So when he gets told and he finds not out, doesn't find this out from Pat Hayden, the ad at US, see, he finds it out from somebody else that Steve Sarkisian's actually getting the USC job, not him. He is crushed and you know, he said, other than when his dad died, it was the worst day of

his life. And so he flied, you know, he goes back home with his wife, and he is you know, he has devastated to the point where his kids had told me and now his kids are both out of college, but he had said that they had told me, we've never seen our dad like unshaven and scruffy and lying and sleeping on the couch all day like it was like, wasn't just like like like a guy going through a woman going through a bad breakup who was like that

time's you know, probably twenty for him. And you know, I think the guy who's really been kind of a big brother to him, Brian Kennedy, who's really helped him out through the recovery process for these twenty years. You know, he had talked to me about Brian sober now about fifty years about just how much concern he had because when when people go through very traumatic experiences, you know, lose a job, wife leaves them, whatever that can I mean, for a lack of a better term, you know, when

guys people go off the wagon. And he was like, I called him, I couldn't hear anything back, and I worried. And Ojoran told me in the for the book that you know, at one point urban Meyer had reached out to him about possibly a d line job Nick Saban had and he was like, I would have been good to nobody at that point. The way I felt and where the work done himself part was he really threw

himself into getting back into his son's lives. His one son was like, I guess the best tennis player in the state of Louisiana and his age range and he's so he started going out to all the tennis matches and his son was telling me, and this is Cody, who actually ended up being the quarter starting quarterback at McNee State, was like, you know, my dad's coming to these tennis matches and you know he's got that voice, and I'm like that you don't do that at tennis

matches and you know, he's and he goes and nobody goes to tennis match in Louisiana. So it's bad enough his voice carries, but now he's one of like three people there, and he's grumbling and rough, you know, and yelling things like that you got a chill. And then you know his other brother, his other his twin brother played football, and so he would be out at those and same thing. You know, it's just like he really I think he kind of got a deep connection with

his sons and I think that really impacted him. Now crazy, There's so many crazy twists in Ojeon's life, but I think this one really is something that you have to take a step back to kind of get how improbable his story is. So he obviously gets a law. Like most guys who are football coaches, if you become an interim head coach, you maybe get one or two or three games tops. Usually guys don't get fired in September

or with almost a full season. So Lane obviously got fired early in the season at usc So Ojean got eight games to basically show that he was not the head coach that he looked like he was at Ole Miss. Well,

then he goes to LSU. And remember LSU, there was a game that they were playing in November against Texas A and M and all the reports are that LSU is going to fire less Miles, and the stadium is all packed in support of less Miles is obviously a a you know, beloved character who also is kind of larger than life, you know, Less's persona and the players play their butts off for him, and they beat Texas in them and unss she doesn't end up firing him late in the year, but you know what, like so

there's no coaching search at LSU. If there was a coaching search, they're not hiring it o'jon at that stage to be the head coach at LSU. Instead, they keep less On. He loses to Wisconsin at in Lambeau to start the season, and later he loses to Auburn. They fire him early. So the chance of being an interim head coach twice is rare to begin with, the chance to be an interim head coach and have almost a

full season is ridiculous. And then he gets it. He you know, he's kind of made the additional tweaks from his time at you know, when he was at USC even more so. And I think that really helped helped him get at least a real shot at getting this job, which is again so shockingly improbable given his path.

culture thing? Is it an on field thing between whatever at Origron was doing even at USC, but between what he did in a less successful part of his head coaching career and what he eventually was able to do at LSU.

stick in his craw to this day. Well, anyway, to me, the biggest difference in him, and I didn't know this until we started working on the book really and talking about it, and then it started to materialize, was his understanding of like I knew he had evolved, and you know, look,

I once worked on a book with Mike Leach. Michael Leach might be the most stubborn of the stubborn people in a profession that's you know, loaded with stubborn dudes, and they don't usually evolve or they don't change much. So I knew Oseron had evolved, and it was clear that he had. But what I was kind of thinking in terms of this is you become different. And what he had kind of explained and articulated in a way where I don't even know he was like not telling

me that this is what happened. He was just telling me about it. As the instincts you have, they don't change, the impulses you have, they don't change. What change is if you're fortunate or if you've done the work and get to know yourself and get to know who you are and for better or worse, how that And this is why I think the book is like, this is why I'd be selling the book in terms of like why it's a lot more than a football book is. And this is, you know, relatable to anybody, not just

at Ozeran or a football coach. Is the awareness that he ended up having was like, Okay, this is my my instinct would have been to do this. Well, I did it that way at Oldness, right, did it that way before and it didn't work so good. So I know I can't do it that way. And so I think what's so different for him is he knows his he knows himself, and he knows because he said this to me at one point and there's a story after

they beat Alabama and Tuscalalusa. Yes last year, he's like, the old me or the one when I was at Old Miss, I would have done it this way, and it would have been And the example he you know, we're talking about in the book specifically to this was they beat Old Miss and I don't know, I mean, they beat Alabama. I don't if you remember this, but there were one of the players took out a cell phone in the postgame speech, and it was the you know, I don't know if I can say it out loud

on your shop, but like that gets out. No, it's not the most inflammatory thing, but it's definitely not something that LSU's going to put on their Twitter feed. And so he apologized for it. But then he said, you know, the player who did it basically came to me. It was very apologetic, and he was like the old me, you would have turned that into like a two day story and I would have gone off on him and know whatever. And he's like, you know, I knew, he

knew he made a mistake. It wasn't It wasn't like a guy who got in front of a car, you know, under the influence and had a horrific accident. You know, like whatnot. It was like an error in judgment. It's like, okay, this is like one of my sons. How would I handle it. I was like, you know, you screwed up. Hey, don't do that again. I love you. I love you still.

Just let's let's you know, make better decisions. And the team ends up noticing how somebody gets treated, you know, like it's treated in that where they already feel bad enough and you know they don't want and then all of a sudden you run a truck over them, you know, emotionally, and then it just makes it worse. And so I think that was a really interesting window where when he told me the story, it didn't all that was sink in all the way, and then it did the more we talked about it.

Make preparation stuff like that. He made that decision. But Joe Brady specifically does not fit necessarily with the types of coordinator hires that ed Orgeron made before, Like you've mentioned at ole Miss. I think he hired himself as defensive coordinator at ole Miss. And even since you know, instead of going with a sort of an up and comer and paying them and somebody who has been identified and recommended like Joe Brady was, even since hiring Bo

Polini for example this year. I don't know if that's with his instinct or against his instinct, whatever, but Joe Brady definitely stands out. Was any of that expected, any of the all timiness of Joe Brady and that hire expected? And did he have to be pulled into and convinced of Joe Brady.

thirty seven. And then he explained more, and then I was like, oh, he's a morehead guy. And I know Joe moorehead and so, but then when he hired him and he interviewed like he basically offered Brady the job, and then like Brady didn't accept the job right away, Like I guess, Joe Brady's the mine where I'm not going to you know, I don't know if it's his dad or somebody had said, hey, don't make a decision instantly or whatever on anything. And so Joe eventually, you know,

tells me I definitely want the job. And I don't know how long it was, but I remember I said, how is it going. He goes, you got to see this guy. He said, he just raved about what Joe Brady was braining. He kept on saying he's got answers, He's got answers for everything. And I said, all right, well, you know, I'd like to come down there. And I thought I was going to do a story about it

for the Athletic. Well I eventually did do that. But so I went down in April of twenty nineteen, and I sat in a bunch of the meetings and I had good access, and I went to spring practice and

then I met with Brady for a long time. And it's crazy because you know, like that was the first time I think Joe Brady had ever done an interview like remember, like most of these coaches, with the exception of like and Leach and Charlie Weiss, like at some point they were a really good high school football player, so you know maybe in their town they got you know,

they get some coverage or whatever. I mean. Joe Brady played, you know, was a receiver in a really good area football in Day County, and then he was a backup receiver at William and Mary and then he was a gat at Ohio I mean at Penn State, and then he was basically a quality control guy at the Saint So it's not like he's getting interviewed or anything. So

it's like he's under the radar. But Ed was so convinced, like he loved, he loved what the Saints do, and he just got such a good vibe on him that he was like, this is going to be the perfect

compliment to what I think. Like he likes that Steve Nsminger is willing to be aggressive and throw the ball downfield, but in the RPO game, which Brady obviously had been burst in from his time with morehead at Penn State, but also a lot of the attacking stuff that the Saints do, especially what he was going to bring for the third down and in the red zone. He was like,

this is going to be gold now. At helped that he had a lot of us played into how Joe Burrow is wired anyway, Joe burrowuld rather, I don't want you guys Max protecting is not protecting me. It's causing me more problems. Right, I get everybody out and I will and I will attack it, you know, and give me options. I don't need this all getting muddled in the middle of it, and I'm like relying on two

guys to try to make magic. And that stuff took off, and so what's what was you know, fun for me with the book was when you talk to Joe bradyer when you I mean, I got some great stuff from Joe Burrow and from other guys on the staff about how this thing evolved and how quickly it evolved and how it took off like wildfire. Was that to me is like the inside stuff like if I'm a football coach or if I'm an SEC fan, I want to

dig into. But he was convinced and so like, did I think they were going to win a national title? After I came back from from Baton Rouge on that

trip in the spring. I didn't think that, but I thought they had a chance to be a real, you know, playoff team, and to the point where like the athletic does these state of the program stories and I'm writing about how yeah, I know, you feel like you've heard this before, whether it's Cam Cameron and less smiles, and they're going to change, They're going to be something different. Oh here comes Brandon Harris. He's more talented than the other quarterbacks l she's had. Oh wait, Ojon just hired

Matt Canada. He was the hot coordinator at pitt and it never worked out for LSU, and it just underwhelmed and disappointed. But I know you heard that this guy Joe Brady, who by the way, you never heard of. Now he's going to be it's going to be way different, especially because you know, with the exception of really the UCF Fiesta Bowl game, it wasn't like Joe Burrow was lighting up teams. He was playing well, but it wasn't

like nobody saw that coming. And so when I came back, I was like, oh, boy, I think I That's when I started working on the book proposal for Philip the script after that trip, because I was so convinced and because Ojon had, you know, been so high on what he had seen. He was like, nobody ever, this never happens where the offense just torches the defense in spring football, not here, and it was happening. And so that was where the ground started to move.

a position like this. And obviously, in order to really move an offense forward in order to generate big points in big plays, whoever is calling the offense has to feel empowered, has to feel like they are in control and they don't have somebody looking over their shoulder constantly saying this is how I think we should be doing things.

And obviously there had to have been a very successful interplay during the season between ed Orzron and his expectations, Steve Ensminger and what he had already done and what he is in control of, and Joe Brady and what he is bringing to the offense. It doesn't seem like it's obvious that a situation like that would just click. Why did it?

Brady and Lane. But I think he, you know, there was something he was really sold on with. Again, you know, in game adjustments, Joe Brady's going to attack it like he had a great admiration. I was gonna say in respect, but it's like a great admiration for how Joe Brady thinks in the middle of things. So, you know, I think if you would asked him and said, who's the best recruiter on the staff, who's the best evaluator of talent? He's not budgeting on that. If you had asked him, like,

who knows the most about the lie? You know, even though he works with Bill Johnson, who was a mentor to him, I think that would be more of a more of a begrudging whatever. But if it came down to, like, you know, who is the like, do I know more than than Joe Brady, even though he's almost half my age,

He's not fighting that battle. He's he's embracing it all the way to the point where when Joe Burrow came on his visit from you know, came from Ohio State, and they had a bunch of their coaches in this Saturday meeting where they're watching all these cutups of Joe Joe Burrow's stuff in addition to some LSU stuff that they thought catered to him. He said to Obern said

to me, he goes. It did not take very long for me to realize who the smartest guy in the room was and think about that, Like Oseron is you know, very accomplished as a as a position coach, certainly, but he's been in the NFL, he's been at USC. He's like he's learned under Jimmy Johnson, he's learned under Pete Carroll, he's n under Paul Pascal, and he like he's learned under some of the best in football. You know, you have Steve Envener, who's been you know, an SEC coordinator

at a bunch of places. You have a lot of other guys who's been coordinators. And he's saying, you know what, this other guy who really has never played college football at any real length of time at this point because he couldn't get on the field at Ohio State. So this guy is the smartest guy in terms of football

in the room. That's quite an admission. But when you see and again, I'm the biggest believer in Joe Burrow as a as a player after what I've heard, what I've seen, you know, for in meetings, at practice and walkthroughs, and they got it. Like I don't know if I don't know if os Wrong was the only one who felt that way at that point, you know, because he's

a he's a defensive guy. Listening to somebody talk about how assertive he is, what he's seeing, how he's processing, you know, obviously, and Burrow is the son of a longtime defensive coordinator in the MAC. But you know, again, I think that speaks to like, Okay, I know what I don't know, and I want somebody who can bring me that, and he found guys who could bring them in.

full scale brawl. And then at that same practice Odron said, like he just torched our defense and like completed like eighty five percent of his passes that day, and I came off the field going, We're going to be really, really good. He told, you know, he told one of his staff was that. I think then, because you know, I heard that from multiple people in the program, not just ozeron that and Joe certainly felt that way, and

one of the offensive assistants felt that way. And I think they just realized, we know we have players on defense, and we are just embarrassing them. And so like, I knew that Jamaar Chase was a lot better than people realized, because I you know, I'd been out at some practices in that spring and I didn't know he was going to win the bullet in the call, but I knew he was like all American caliber. I knew Justin Jefferson was a big time guy. I didn't see the Clyde

thing coming for a while. I can't say that, but I think there was a lot of elements of that. So then when they got to Houston, when they got to Texas, I think it was like, hey, this is what we do now, you know, it's we're not doing four minute offense because we're up and it's third and seventeen. We're putting our foot on the guess and this is a different this is a different day for LSU, and it built I mean for me personally, Like I thought they were after they beat Alabama and I was like,

all right, I got a book. But I thought, ultimately I figured, all right, they're way better than Georgia. I mean, they kicked Georgia's butts the year before, you know, without the same kind of team, and I just figured they would do it again. I thought they would beat Oklahoma. I'd seen them. Oklahoma is a bad matchup, and I just remembered, you know, like before the playoffs started, I was like, going to Clemson and Ohio State are just so talented on both sides of the ball. And it's

Trevor Lawrence, it's justin field. I think at some point the Cinderella story is going to not have a great ending. Well after Oklahoma, I remember walking out of there because I had now I've seen a couple of games up close from the sideline and been with them, you know, for practices and meetings, and so you know, after five years at Fox have been a sideline requorter like, I've seen a lot of teams right before games, you know, good teams, Ohio State, Oklahoma. You know, I've seen kind

of the feel for it. I have never seen a team as loose, focused and confident right before kickoff as that LSU team is. I mean, I saw it against Georgia, I saw it against Oklahoma, and it's the exact same way they look at a Wednesday practice, and I was like, no matter what I think Trevor Lawrence is terrific, I think Travis ATM is terrific. Nobody's beaten this team, not

this year, not the way they're playing. And you know, so I, you know, kind of changed my thought on the fly after seeing it after a couple of times, because I just I at that point, I was like, all right, I get it. You know, Clempson may score a bunch of points, they're not outscoring Joe Joe Burrow, and they're not outscoring Clyde and Jamar Chase. It's just they're just on a different level at this point. And that actually was kind of what happened. At one point

they're down seventeen to seven. Then also Jamar Chase was likes that I'm going to take over. You can put your best defensive back on, he can play me well, and I'm still going to beat him. And it was like that's what happened. And then all of a sudden, Trevor Lawrence, as talented as he is, could not keep up. And I just felt like their offense puts so much pressure on teams that and these were really good quarterbacks.

I mean, Trevor is a great quarterback, right, and they just they either get you in a hole or they just you know, Ellinger played probably the best game of the season against them, and they still lost at home.

of Alabama football. What are at Orgron practices like? Because obviously something worked from those practices After the spring, when Joe Burrow looked that good. What were practices like last year? Either from your own experience or from what you've.

USC had a lot of talent, I don't think it was quite to the degree of the nastiness and the edge that those Miami teams practiced with. Then when he got this team at LSU. One thing that was interesting he told, which I didn't realize when I was there in the spring, but I noticed it later, was they you know, most teams when you go to the practice, they usually have like, you know, music blaring, and he doesn't, And he was like, music is fake energy. I want

our guys to have their own energy. If you don't, if you don't clap if you don't bring the energy you guys are running. And so that was a big thing for him, and so there was I mean, you know his iron sharpened iron deal well and you know he would I remember he showed this in one of like a morning film session that I was sitting in

the room for. It was like he must have rewound Jamar Chase against Derek Stingley Junior like a half dozen times, and like there's like Burrow completes a pass and I don't know how Stingley how uh, Stingley's right on top of him. I don't know how Chase, you know, makes to catch sliding down to the ground. And it was just like this is what makes us so good. You know, this is every day where these guys are being forced to challenge themselves. And so that's what those practices were like.

And you know, being at the practice where you know there there's a lot of Joe Burrow is challenging. Everybody's challenging the defense in ways that those guys have never been challenged, both verbally but also obviously you know on the field, it's just different. And you know, like that's there's a lot of guys with with with ego and and you know, big personalities who are trying to measure up there, and I think that really helped them.

that quality. Dave Randa is sticking around and signing the extension that he did to keep him at LSU and having the LSU always has talent. But it felt like there were elements, especially the unknown of Joe Brady, you know, not really a big known commodity and coaching circles. Is it acknowledged that, yes, the stars aligned, but also we took advantage when we had that moment.

Queen became a first round pick last year. Nobody saw that coming. Like I remember being there when they were recruited Patrick Queen and got him on signing day, and he thought he was talented and could really run. But like Patrick Queen wasn't the starter going into the year,

like we haven't. You know a scene in the book where Patrick Queen's parents want to speak to Ojeron and he's thinking, oh, he's probably wants to go in the portal and basically, you know Patrick, you know, his family says what does he need to do to get better? And he was like, Okay, these are the things I

need to see from him. Well, Patrick Queen took that to heart and did those things and then he was you know, he was playing about as well as any linebacker in the country by the end of the year, like he was a big reason why they were able to neutralize Travi Tate DNA in the National title game. So I think it's all that in that environment where

that happened. But I don't think it's like ever been Like, let me stop and think and think how improbable all these things are, just because I think you know when you're in it like they were. I just think if you stop and analyze it, it's counterproductive.

have opt outs. The defense looks different. They obviously have a crazy Week one and the defense looks very different. The offense looks very different. Injuries to two key dudes. Has LSU's twenty twenty characterized or made you reflect on twenty nineteen any differently than you thought you would.

who are not there. I mean, so basically the ones who are the holdovers is Terrace Marshall was a really good receiver, and Derek Stanley, who's a terrific cornerback, but he did miss the opener like on you know, he gets sick the night before the game, and then everything else is new pretty much. So it's a big rebuild

that is happening in the middle of a pandemic. And I did not expect this, Like I didn't think they were going to be a playoff team, but I still thought they'd probably had the talent to be a top ten team. Like their defense has been a huge dud, Like I really would have thought they would have been a lot better than this even without like Tyler Sheldon opting out. I still thought, Okay, they're really good in the secondary. I know how talented some of those young

guys are. They get Jabril Cox from from North Dakota State. He's a really good player. I know they're high on them and Clark and some of these other players in the front seven, and it just Bo Polini comes in and it's been a really bad fit. You know, Ozeran is more comfortable in the fore man front and because that's was Jimmy Johnson system, that was certainly Pete Carroll's system, and Bo Polini had learned under Pete Carroll. Well, like a lot of the you know, it's been a lot

of miscommunication. The players seem like they've had a lot of blown assignments. I don't know if they're just not understanding the checks to the defense or what. But it's been really bad. I mean, I don't think the offense has been obviously when they played Auburn, you know, and the true freshman, they're playing a true freshman quarterback for the first time on the road. TJ. Finley. He looked pretty good against South Carolina, and he looked obviously overwhelmed

against Auburn. I don't think it's by and large, it's been really the offense has been like I'm not sure what anybody expected given who was coming back, and especially if you know you're going to have to play a true freshman at some point. It's just been the defense. It has been so so bad. I think it's like, hey, tread Water, do the best you can in twenty twenty for the rest of the season, and then look, we have a lot of really good young players. Hopefully we

get this thing straightened out in twenty twenty one. And this year. I mean, it's not the same, but there are some parallels to his twenty seventeen season, where he hired Matt Cannan on offense that was a bad fit. It didn't work out. They had a horrible loss, a blowout loss Mississippi State, They lost to Troy, they barely

beat Sarahcuse. I mean, they were really shaky. Now, what was different was they had better personnel on defense and they were more patched up on defense, so they could kind of carry that at least be competitive and have a chance to win some of the games against some good teams. Right now, I don't think they have that, I mean, and so this is like I said, this is a rebuild. I mean, you know, it's like just how do you how do you kind of you know,

kind of just spread water and plow forward. I mean, from from my standpoint, it's just like putting out a book. This book was supposed to come out around SEC Media Days, but that was then the pandemic hit and the publisher wasn't sure if we were going to have a season, and then they pushed it back to late October, and as much as we tried to get them to move

it back up, they didn't. And so, you know, it's hard to put out a book when even if you feel like you have a really really good book, people are still going to see it as definitive, like on, hey, it's this even though the book was ready and you know, in late August, it's still it's a two and three team, you know, and LSU fans are are kind of I don't say over that they want just won a national title, but now they're dealing with the right now as opposed

to still feeling the high of that. Especially like I said, it's in a pandemic. It's already a crazy enough you're on top of.

into winter. Because I love me markt, I love the QB. Flip the Script Lessons learned on the Road to a Championship by it. I don't know Amazon, local bookstores, wherever you can find it. I'm positive it's great. So Bruce, thank, I want to talk about you for that, of course, I want to talk about the PAC twelve, just because you're on the West Coast. I will not take nearly the time that we took talking about the book because I'm sure there's just a ton to unpack with Flip

the Script. But here's my first professional segue. There's a team in the PAC twelve that won their conference. They lost a top ten pick at quarterback. They made a splashy coordinator Higher. We don't know if it's going to work out better than bo Polini has worked out thus far. But the big question now is did they lose too many dudes to both the draft and to opting out.

That is the orgon Ducks. Do you anticipate we are going to be saying they just lost too many dudes and the coordinator Higher may not have fully worked out.

mean new quarterback. I think the receiving core is going to be better because it felt like it was always a little underwhelming in the last couple of years. And good running back. You know, Mario Cristobal is an O line guy. And he's a good recruiter. I think they'll be pretty good still on the O line, but I just think the margin for error. You know, Tyler Schuck will see what he does. I've heard really good things

about him in the last year plus. So I see when you look at what else is in the division, which you have Washington, new head coach, new offensive coordinator, and new quarterback, and I don't you know, well, I think they're really good in the secondary, but I think they have even more questions whereas and they don't have C. J. Verdell to a lean on Cal the new offensive coordinator. I think Cal's actually going to surprise a lot of people. But to me, I think Oregon is a top fifteen team.

I'm not ready to say much more than that, just because of what you said. They lost a lot of really good dudes.

If Todd Orlando is considered to be a good hire for the Trojans, where will it show on the defense this year that it just wasn't there for Clancy Pendergast and the Trojans last year.

have not been like an elite program. I think if they can get some of their linebackers who when you look at them, you're like, man, these guys should be really good and then they miss a lot of tackles and they're aut a position and that part has been a disappointment. They they're good up front. I like Todder Orlando. I think he is He's very aggressive. I think he's

not easy to play against. From talking to the coaches who played against so, I think one of the challenges that they had a Texas was sometimes they were doing so much that some of those guys maybe got out of position. And you know, when I've talked to people now who talk about Texas, They're like, well, the difference is maybe these guys you're at Texas in the Big twelve, you probably have better athletes. Maybe not way better, but better athletes. You don't need to do a lot of

crazy stuff. So I think, like I like a lot of the Hires. Clay Helton made a lot of the moves he's made this offseason. I think they're a class of the of the division. By far. I really am a big believer in Slovas. I think he's really talented. I love his temperament. The receivers are fantastic as a group. You know, you got on mo On Ra, you have Tyler Bonds. Those guys are headliners. They are really excited about Drake London, who's a big receiver almost tight end size.

They have a stable of running backs, the offensive line now that they got Elijah vera tucker back after he opted out top back in and they have some you know, like as you said, the schedule, I mean, they get by Arizona State this weekend. I don't think Utah is going to be as good as they've been the last few years. They have so many guys for a place. Unless they stumble somewhere, I think they're gonna. I think they're going and they get Wazoo out of the you know,

out of the North, who's in rebolt rebuild mode. I think they're well positioned to run through this regular season undefeated. I really do.

of receivers. I don't know what they're going to be like on defense, you know, in terms of I don't know how much confidence you have in that group, because they've been really, really bad since he's been there, batnestly bad even before that. Whereas with Arizona, I know that staff likes Grant Ganel, they are really excited about him. I just don't know. Maybe it's another year from now before that that offense is clicking. Whereas I think I

think Dorrian Thompson Robinson has breakout star potential there. I mean, he has a terrific arm, he runs well, he's in a system that I think like he knows now, and he's got pretty good skill around him, you know. I mean between between Felton, you've got Kyle Phillips, who's a really good slot receiver. You've got some big targets. I don't think right now, and look, there's no reason for

people to be Chip Kelly's Oregon day is notwithstanding. I don't think there's any reason for people to look at what UCLA has done in the first two years and say, oh, this is a team that has a chance to be anything close to a top twenty five team. Because there's nothing that's really shown that at this point other than if you watch DTR a bit. You know, like, all right,

you know there's there's a chance there. And given the two things of what you said, you know, one of the two, I'm more inclined to look at UCLA at the stage of development that program is in compared to what I think Arizona is, where they've got a bunch

of opt outs and kids transfer. Not that Uclia haven't, but you know, like I feel like they've had like core nucleus guys leave because they didn't think they were going to have a season, And now like West Virginia is like the most productive linebacker in the Big twelve, who should be at Arizona instead of there, And you know the schoolers are in the Big twelve. There's both there. So I just think that, you know, to me, I see UCLA having a better upside right now.

Alex Grinch left a couple of years ago. Washington took a pretty big step back on offense with Jacob Easton last year, and they'll have a new quarterback, like you mentioned. Of all the teams I suppose in the Pac twelve that have obvious room to grow, who gives you the most confidence that they're going to approach the their sort of growth ceiling based on what you've seen and what they look like right now.

I think Talano might be even better, but he's a leader and he's a really good corner and I think that they have some really good pieces there, guys of experience at all at all three levels of the defense. I really think Justin Wilcox is a very underrated coach. I think they have a chance to be a real top twenty five team. Christopher Brown is a big, physical running back. They have some good young receivers. As I said, Garber's is very underrated. I like them a lot, I

really do. I mean, it wouldn't shock me if they ended up winning the Pac twelve to be honest.

been recruiting. Interestingly, are you as high on ASU as it seems many are who look at the depth I guess atop the conference, I'm pretty high on them.

I'm very interested to see how Marvin Lewis is the defensive coordinator now and how that defense looks. But they're an interesting team, and I have to admit I did not think Herr would have done this good of a job as a head coach there. And he has done a really good job. I mean, her Edwards MATC. Brown to me are and like her hasn't you know, He's had some nice wins. His record hasn't been much different than Todd Grahams was. But I didn't think it would

go this well. And I didn't, you know, like you didn't ask me this, But I didn't think Mack would do as well as he has done so far. At do you enter mean, he obviously has a terrific quarterback to build around, but I think those were ones that have been pleasant surprises. And I say pleasant surprises not just because you know, I think there are two personality types where Herm is an interesting guy, and I think

he makes the PAC twelve little more interesting. And so let's see what they do in year three, because it's I think a lot of people now as you, as you alluded to, are in that like, hey, we have some expectations. Now let's see what happens.

or when you are at practice? And I know it's obviously been a different year this year, but when you look at the programs in the PAC twelve, who can either compete nationally or look like they have a ceiling of compete nationally, how far away is the conference as a whole from I don't know, the best five teams in the conference stacking up against the best five in the Big twelve or the ACC or the SEC or

the Big ten. Is there a chasm? As some people like to say or is it closer than you believe that the Warriors seem to think.

He was like, that looks like an SEC team, and he's right, they do. And obviously, you know when you had today Sewel and a bunch of you know, more experienced th alignement like they did, that added to it. But now you're gonna have these these huge linebacker dudes that have that have come into the program. Sewel's brother, you know, may Scooner was there last year as a freshman. And you certainly had Justin Flow, who looks like a looks like a comic book hero kind of thing that

definitely does that. USC I think needs to continue to, you know, ramp up recruiting. But they have, you know, like I said, there, they have a receiver corps that matches up pretty well with anybody. They have a bunch

of guys like who do you know they have. The thing with USC is a little bit of a misread is like I remember going out there last year in the spring and seeing their linebacker group and it's not just not ok Ota, who was obviously a huge recruit, but there was a couple other guys who were, like, I mean, a couple of those guys look like American

gladiator guys. Now they don't. They didn't play like you know, one or two of them were injured and so you know, sometimes with USC it's like, you know, you know about them and recruiting and then either they're hurt or something. It's just there's something just isn't quite there. I think what's different with USC is they had for so long

they had some special running back there. Now it doesn't have to be Reggie Bush or even Linda White, but right now you don't see and Marquis Steph is talent and they have guys who Stephen Carr have talent, but it's not like the one who's there who's like the wow factor, right, And so to me, those are the programs at this point that that you could say, oh

if they if this breaks right or whatever. Like I think given all the stuff we talked about with the change with Oregon, new quarterback, new O line, no more, no more Javon Holland, I think that separates them from probably, you know, maybe they're a year away from being that team, you know. I don't, I don't know, but I think the way Mario has recruited there, it's an SEC it's an SEC vibe all the way around with Oregon, and I think there's some of that happening at USC at this point too, all.

excited to get a chance to read it. Haven't yet, but will soon.

or whatever. When Bruce is talking about LSU's spring practice last year with Joe Burrow actively starting fights, with Joe Burrow saying I don't want Max protect. We need to

get receivers on the field. I'll figure it out, with Joe Burrow absolutely torching a very very good LSU first defense in spring practice, and them, you know, having a sense like, oh, we might have like a team of killers, and them having the sense behind the scenes that maybe they're not a national championship team, but all of a sudden, this is a serious playoff contender. And knowing that from early on that something was just different with the makeup

of that program last year. It's fascinating stuff to know that sort of lead the lead time to the season. You're like, well, we're gonna f up some teams.

PAC twelve game. What are you hoping to see from teams that will make you turn the dial?

And given the schedule, given the fact there is always good skill position talent at USC, if they could just get all cylinders firing at the same time, I would love to see what that team could do. They have not done that. Inconsistency has been a real problem for the Trojans over the last I don't know better part of the last decade, let's say, I would really like to see what they could do if they finally got everything on the same page. So that first and foremost

probably the low hanging fruit. The PAC twelve North as a whole really intrigues me because I kind of don't know what to expect out of Washington and Washington State and even Stanford to some extent. You know, I think we feel a degree of confidence with Oregon. They've had a bunch of opt outs and there's I know, a bunch of turnover there. But even beyond all that, the North really did for a long time feel like the stronger side of the conference, or at least the one

with the fewest variables. And now with new coaches and with I think the step back we've seen from Stanford recently, I kind of don't know where it stands. Cow may have a clearer path to get up closer to the top of that side of the conference than we've seen before. They might not even play this weekend, but you know, there's a lot of intrigue for me in the North and in the South. I would say just the you know, Utah maybe is not the most exciting program in the world.

But they did bring Jake Bentley over from South Carolina, and I'm just I'm curious to see how that plays out, if it looks any different with him.

but played really well in high school. Same area of you know, Tua and Marcus Mariota went to Saint Louis, I believe, and Dylan Gabriel, all those guys, so really rich history there on the islands. Yeah, there's so much unknown right now. I just I'd like to see Oregon State take a next step. I'd like to see ASU take a next step. I'd like to see Stanford correct whatever the hell went wrong. I know they have some promising guys on offense. The defense was rough at times

last year. I just I want to see teams figure it out because I want to go into the season thinking there are great games across the conference, even if it doesn't matter with the playoff or anything like that. But I just I want to care about ASU USC more than I probably do right now, even though I'm intrigued. I want to care about Oregon Washington. I want to know who's starting at quarterback for Washington. I want to, you know, I want to care about the Territorial Cup,

the U of A and ASU, stuff like that. I want Chip Kelly and UCLA to be ooh, they just got scary. They are finally realizing the quote unquote Chip Kelly off whatever. I just I'm selfish and I want all of those things. So that, to me is my sort of higher picture view, taller view of the conference, and I missed Oregon football and it's very strange to say, in a very strange season, but you watch other schools play, like where's.

due to the pandemic. How would you grade out your level of excitement for this iteration of the Oregon season versus normal circumstances.

So I think there's excitement about just watching the progression, the hopeful progression of what Oregon football can look like, especially with I mean this is I mean opt outs. Notwithstanding with the reigning Outland Trophy winner in Pine Sewel and Javon Holland considered be a top flight draft prospect, the recruiting level, the talent level at Oregon has never been higher, So I think people are really excited to see how the gaps are filled in and the new faces,

especially on defense for sure. So it's a I think two or three five star guys are going to be in the rotation in that too, deep on defense as true freshman So I think it's just a lot of excitement about unleashing so much talent, even behind Caveon Thibodeaux, who looks to be one of the best edge rushers in the country.

communicator on the Apollo eleven mission. So he was communicating with Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong during launch and during the first moonwalk. Okay, then he gets involved in Skylab. He's like he takes point on Skylab. He logged, eventually became and this was like declassified that he became a Space Shuttle pilot. He logged over three hundred and twelve hours in space. The MMU time.

He was in John McCain's graduating class. So some big names in that class, it seems. And this was the after the PostScript, I guess as it were. On September thirtieth, twenty ten, McCandless launched a lawsuit against British singer Dido for unauthorized use of a photo of his nineteen eighty four spaceflight for the album art of her two thousand and eight album Safe Trip Home, which showed McCandless quote free flying about three hundred and twenty feet away from

the Space Shuttle challenger Mike. They settled everything amicably, is what I'm what I'm reading here, But that is a lifetie.

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