Welcome to the solid verbal hell that.
For me, I'm a man, I'm forty.
I've heard so many players say, well, I want to be happy. You want to be happy for a day?
Da steak? Is that woo woom?
And Dan and Tye, welcome back to the solid verbal boys and girls. My name is ty hilden Brandt. That fine gentleman over there, the so called monster of the Midway, Dan Rubinstein in the heart of the Midwest, Chicago, Illinois, Sir, how are you?
I'm terrific, Ty, I'm terrific. There's no rain, there's no snow, there's nothing happening. I had a nice weekend, had a good pizza bake, yes, Shay go, and to make some more today, which is always always fun for me. So this is so. We're doing an NFL Draft show today. Yes, and as always we're driven by Geico. Yes, Convermi, you are driven by our friends of Geico. Yes, yes, Okay, just wanted to make sure because I'm I'm feeling like the wind in my hair as we drive down the
content road here. That's right. I love the NFL Draft. I basically watch no NFL games before the before the playoffs, just because life is so busy, and work is so busy doing soliverbal and college football things during the fall time on the weekends. But I love the NFL Draft.
I love the strategy of it. I love taking players that we watched a ton of in college and seeing how another group of people evaluate what their futures and how good they are or were or seemed but warrant or didn't seem but are those kinds of things and love. I love the mechanics of the NFL Draft, And that's why I'm especially excited because this is a first time guest that we're having on today, Nate Tice from the Athletic I love all of the brains that go into it,
and it's such an inexact science. There's so much guesswork to it, but I think that's what makes it incredibly fun and interesting. Oh, I'm quite excited for today's show.
It is also the hardest sporting event to convince your spouse and or significant other to like watch, Yeah, because when you describe to them what it is, HM, you're gonna wait fifteen minutes, ten minutes in between picks and they're going to call someone to a podium and in between it's all filler, Dan m hm. And it goes on for hours, three days, yes, four days, however long it is. Yeah, three yeah. This is where we're at with the NFL Draft. But I love it too.
It's awesome.
It is great. It is one of those points of overlap between college and pro. If you're a college fan, you want to see how your favorite college stars do, where they get drafted, how they translate to the next level. If you're an NFL fan, in a lot of cases, it may be your introduction into the previous year of college football. Right you don't you watch it, but you care about who your team's gonna get. You start reading up on these guys looking back to see how they
did in college. So one of those cool moments for us where we get to talk to NFL people. Talk to Robert Mays of The Athletic Football Show. Last year, we're talking to his co host, Nate Tice. Don't forget Verballers dot Com is where you can go if you want to get access to this show, all our shows. A little bit early. We've got bonus content out there as well. A discord server that continues to pop off in these deep, dark, cold days of the college football offseason.
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Yeah. In the college football universe, before we get into to Nate and all sorts of draft things, there have been spring games. I don't know if you watched any highlights news anything. I saw Clemson there were a lot of struggles, but maybe it's because they have such strong defensive linemen. I don't know. I watched some clips of.
Michigan Club nick Man, my boy, your guy, my boy.
Yeah. I didn't see a terrible amount of news regarding spring game stuff outside of that, but we do absolutely need to mention Dwayne Haskins. Dwayne Haskins, the tragedy twenty four, twenty four years old, and just those who spent significant around time around Dwayne Haskins. Obviously, we watched him from Afar and were thrilled to see how prolific a player and successful a player he was at Ohio State and
his brief time as a starting quarterback there. But you read the stories and the experiences of the people who spend a lot of time around him, and it's just absolutely heartbreaking to lose somebody like that who had so much meaning, well so much meaning for so many people. And so it's just just a brutal bit of news from over the weekend.
Absolutely devastating to hear that news. I sent it to you and I saw it.
We were both bored. So yeah, and especially painful reminder, as you know, we're talking about draft stuff, and we're talking about, you know, the strengths and weaknesses of a player or of a program, or like talking about humans. We're talking about human beings who are doing their absolute best to further their place professionally. But man just gutted to see what happened.
Well, on that tragic note, Dan, we will segue here to the topic dujor on the show. Yes, it is the NFL Draft. It is Nat Tice. I don't know, like, do you have any preference when it comes to the NFL Draft with respect to the guys that you like, Because I've talked about this before on our show. I am a sucker for pretty much every wide receiver. Yeah, every wide receiver, every standout wide receiver that's ever come
out of college. I have been utterly convinced that they're going to pop at the next level, to the extent where I'm playing in fantasy football leagues, dynasty leagues where you're required to draft some of these young draft prospects, and I pick them all and most of them never pop. I got Tyler Lockett, right, it took them a little bit to get there. I've gotten a couple other guy. I got Odell Beckham, right, I've gotten a couple guys right along the way.
What a brave stand you took.
But player exactly like, you're not going to confuse me with Nate Tice, who actually knows what he's looking at. Do you have any guys like that or any position groups like that where you're just hook line and sinker for whoever the names are in that given year.
I'm always rooting for not just the players, but the destinations. For the Swiss Army knife speed types d Anthony Thomas, Tyreek Hill, Percy Harvin, most recently Deebo Samuel who landed in the absolute perfect system and situation Taevon Austin. Guys who are just so fast and so talented and so good with the ball. They're not a pure receiver, they're not a pure running back, they're not a flanker per se.
They're not an outside guy per se. Where they're the sort of at best that interchangeable talent that is lightning in a bottle, but at worst they end up somewhere that tries to put the circle in the square peg. So I'm always rooting for those guys who are inside outside players who have that ability to land somewhere that sees the beauty in their specific talents. That's what I root for. Shall we dive right in I'm ready.
Let's do it already Dan joining us now from the Athletic The Athletic Football Show with our friend Robert Mays, who actually did this interview with us a year ago. Please to welcome Nate Tice to the Solid Verbals. Sir, how are you?
I'm doing well? Yeah? Now you got both of us. That's good. Complete completely the set. Now you need Lindsey Jones and Chokapatia if you work.
Our way, yeah, work away through the mount rushmore.
So. Yeah, you did the reverse Mortal Kombat. You started with Shao Khan. Whoa. Now you're on the goro. I guess I'm goro.
That's true, a natural goro. Yeah, Tice, we'll use that.
I appreciate that. No, thanks for having me all guys, this is perfect. I know our appre show. I feel like I've used up all my good bits. So I have a couple more.
Yeah, if we can harvest those yeahs as we go through here. So look, how how are you right? You've been intimately involved with all things football for a good long time now, you know, sort of in this role now with the Athletic you're making the rest of us smarter, and that's why we wanted to bring you on because
the NFL Draft happens a few weeks from now. The draft is one of those points of intersect between college football fans, hardcore college football fans, and the NFL, and there's always that gray area, right, like the translation from college to pro. How have you been spending your time now as you're trying to suss out the NFL draft, Like what can you give us a sense for what that looks like for you as you're evaluating talent?
Yeah, right now, it's kind of the calm period, which is kind of funny. The closer it gets, the callmber it gets. But I would say when I'm starting out and this is this is my first year doing this on the media side, where during the season I'm covering the NFL stuff with Robert doing the shows right and stuff up, you know what I see, and then also
having to keep tabs on college guys. So this is my first experience to doing this stuff from the media world, and really you're just starting out, Okay, who are the draft eligible guys and going like, okay, all right, who are your seniors? And now that's actually becoming even dicier. That's what actually went through this year with all the COVID stuff and everybody getting those extra years. How how
teams listed their guys on websites was all inconsistent. Already Notre Dame and Stanford do something screwy because they don't say red shirt and stuff. So that always is like, oh God, and now we got the COVID year. And so you got like this guy Tyler Algiere from from BYU. There was one side that had him as a sophomore, one side had him as junior, one side had him as a redcher at senior, and like it was just like, okay, what are you? But that's just part of the fun.
But figuring all these out, you're really hoping for these guys to pop. You know of some guys like before going into this year, I knew who John Matchi was. I know who he is. I've watched DeVante Smith, I watched Jerry Judy. But like a guy like James and Williams just stepping up out of nowhere. That's what's fun. Like with the scouting processes, these guys pops, it's the
Joe Burrows come out of nowhere. Then. But then there's guys that you've heard about for years and years and years, the Thibadeau's of the world that you know about since senior year of high school. And so that's what's fun about scouting is that just getting to like see these guys reveal themselves and once I really like to wait until about the December or so, like to really get a feel for these guys when you have a full season of tape and you're trying to watch these guys
against the best competition. I also like to watch these guys against maybe lesser competition to see them actually dominate, like see like, hey, in perfect circumstances, what did you do? Like how did you do it? As well as the big games you know against when they go against the Alabamas into Georgia's and the Ohio States of the world.
But really long winded answer to say, scouting is just letting it wash over you and just hoping that someone pops and then you're just like okay, or that guy's notable, and then checking the lists to see, you know, other people are seeing the same thing.
Nate, you mentioned guys that come out of nowhere. I want to bring up Kenny Pickett for a second if I could, I know in some of the analysis you've done. You have some commentary about his progressions, how he needs to develop on that front. Obviously, the talking point going into the draft and after the combine has been the eight and a half inch hands, which another data point.
But you hit on something with the guys who come out of nowhere that I've always thought, and I'm not an analyst, I'm not a scout, but my untrained eye is always a little bit concerned when a guy like a Kenny Pickett has just a meteoric rise in the course of one season. Kenny Pickett threw more touchdowns this past season than he had in the previous three combined. It was an incredible year by any stretch. But I
always worry that guys like that are fools gold. Now counterpoint, Joe Burrow not fools gold, and he fits a similar template. But give us your sense of Kenny Pickett. How worried should folks be? How high should he go on draft Day? What is his status as a pro quarterback moving forward?
Yeah, with Picket is and people are compared these two is Burrow and Pickett just because of that meteoric rise. A lot of this is going into process and going what they do as a snap's going pre and post snap, so just discerning what the defense is, if they have any protection stuff, and then after snap, seeing where their
eyes go. And why I'm bringing that up is even before Burrow's huge year, I I I'm not gonna say like I have heard a Burrow before that big year, but when you would watch him and then watch the previous season before he blew up, you could still see some of the processing stuff. You could still see some of the flashes of going, okay, you get it, like you get how to play the quarterback position. The offense wasn't great. You weren't great either, but you at least, like,
you know, you looked like a Day three pick. Like at the time he really looked like a fifth, sixth, seventh rounder type. And then he just exploded that now we're all gonna know who Joe Burrow is for the rest of our lives. With Pickett is yes, all he is an older prospect and all that, And why I bring that up is that is what's more than more than the hand size, more than any of that stuff is for a guy that's an older guy in an offense that he's been in before, he doesn't really stand
the pocket and process how I thought he would. I thought he would be a one to two to three to four machine, just a vet, you know, just sitting in there knifing and you know, dicing guys up from the pocket. And really he's a one and done guy, which is also his strength. And when I mean one and done, it's I'm going to read a that's not open scramble time. Let's make go make a play happen. And that's his best asset is he can create, which is needed at the quarterback position in the NFL. Now,
you can't just be a bled cell. You can't be just you can be Tom Brady, but you also need about ten years of experience to get to that level of sitting in the pocket and not creating with your legs. You need to be able to create, especially early in
your career so you can get the mental reps. So the fact that he's a guy that's been an offense for years, for a couple of years, he's an older prospect, he's going against less younger guys, and the fact that he's still mentally is more like a one and done freshman sophomore type. That's that's my cost for concern with him.
I have him as a late second early third round grade I and this is not like it's kind of a joke, but I don't mean it to be about compared with Tyra Hanikey from Washington and the fact that I think he's a better version of that and how Picket wins. How all these guys you have to figure out how they win, and how Picket wins is creation and accuracy, and if his mental process is from the pocket, he can get to a system. It's a little more patient with him. I think he needs more time than
people realize. I think people are like, oh, plug and play, he's pro ready. I think he still needs some time as far as mentally to like calm himself down in the pocket and really like process from there.
You've also made a similar comment about Matt Corral from Olbyss and Sam Howell from North Carolina. Now different context. I think you focus in a little bit more on the systems that Corral and how have run, But the criticism is sort of in the same vein with regard to processing. When you get to this stage in your career, Nate, I mean, you obviously are pretty familiar with the NFL
and how things work on that level. Can you coach a guy up to the point where that processing gets to where it needs to be, where the read progression can get to where it needs to be, or is the concern that it's too little, too late at this point?
Yeah, you can, and that's why it's a guy. I'm going to tire all both sides of my mouth. You can. But the thing is, it takes time. And also you want to see the flashes of it when they're in college, because then it's a it's a can or won't thing? A right are they doing that? Because you can't do it or you won't do it? We can teach it into you, you know, like it's that's what you're trying
to figure out. Like that's why so at corral Is lane Kiff and I have seen run various versions of offense, r PO heavy pro style mix in pistol, like just a little bit of everything. He changes it up all the time, seeing him in situations where the quarterback is usually has to be the most valuable guy at third and six, At third and seven, Hey, what's drop back and pass? And you have to find the right throw they Lane Kiffin would choose to just run like a
QB counter, which just choose to run a screen. And that's where my red awords go off. And so that's why each guy a guy can come from an RPO heavy system. Matt Jones perfect example. Like everyone wants to think Alabama as his pro style, it's not his RPO's RPOs get his processing in. It was so it was magical. It was just how quick he went what you like, he would just in the ball, just go to the
perfect spot every time. So that was one of those where it's like, Okay, you didn't run a lot of pro style stuff quote unquote pro style, but I think you can. I'm in make a bet that you can handle it. When you watch a Matt corral is, anytime he has to go one to two, they do run a drop back. It's like hold onto your hat. Sometimes he can do it. Sometimes it's all over the place. A lot of times he's looking to run. You never
really want to see these guys. And both of these guys do a crow and howe is they look to run and pick it. They all look to run right away. And why that matters is you have to do damage from the pocket. You have to because defense is just too fast and good. You can't just keep scrambling. You're gonna get whacked over it and you just can't. It's a three yard game where you just took a shot
and that's not worth it to the offense. Yes, using your legs on like a third down getting it is good, but not living that way, making a living that way. And so that's where my concerns with Carral and how Will come is that when they were asked to do the drop X stuff, it was it was a grab bag. There's no consistency to their game. And it's like, yes, you can get on these guys on the whiteboard and at the combine and go, okay, maybe they can handle it.
But when you're seeing just maybe those three or four or five snaps a game and they can't really do it consistently, that's where you're concerned. Is that, Well, if they can't do it for five snaps, now I'm asking them doing it for fifteen twenty five snaps. That's that's a little scary.
Every year, quarterback classes are basically always looked at as wild cards. You know, everybody's playing different competition, everybody's running different schemes, and everybody's going to enter into different situations. So if you are able to use your captain hindsight of the past three, four or five years and say, Okay, these were all wild cards. These guys kind of worked out and it wasn't obvious that they would, and these
guys didn't and it seemed obvious that they would. What are there any lessons you can apply to the past three, four or five years of quarterback classes looking at this class who are like, Okay, I could see it working out even though this guy seems like, Man, I don't know if it's all. There are there examples that you can you can pull from your your memory banks.
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people will probably say Josh Allen because but Josh Allen is gonna be the outlier of all outliers in life. I'm not even just talking about football scouting. I'm talking about data points in life. Stocks like you want to compare to. That's what Josh, I mean anything a baseball card that also becomes you know, a Honus Wagner. No, I would say more is justin Herbert And that's where I've taken a ton of lessons
from it. Actually really that whole class Burrow to and Herbert, because with Herbert it was there's he was the guy that more than anything, and I think I did an interview once where I was just like, I wish I could just talk with him and see how smart he is, because there's flashes of him handling it. But the offense he ran was the most basic, like passing game you'll ever see. Tons of sprintouts, tons of like just two man routes to receivers wearing like thirty eight and twenty seven.
Like you never want to see a receiver wearing a thirty number. That is, that is not a good sign for your offense. So that is a big lesson I've learned. It was that he was playing with garbage skill guys, and I'm sorry if any of them became anything out.
Of I'm an Oregon fan and a lot I can tell you it was extremely frustrating to watch that offense.
It was, and even watching it at Herbert I was I would say it was high on Herbert, but I had like a fair first round great on him, I trust me. I was not expecting this, No one was. But I loved him in college. But then that was the thing when you're watching is that was the can or won't? Thing? Is that can you handle the harder stuff? Or is he just like this is just you know, like this is what they have to do to get an offense, a tangible offense, a whole bunch of OC's,
you know, a whole bunch of changes. He was the steady presence and all that. Those are things I would have given more tips of the you know, feathers in his cap coming as a prospect and say the flip side Tua running all those RPOs. It turns out that's probably what he needs to run. And there's nothing against RPOs. Like every even in the NFL, you still have to have a sprinkling of them, but you just can't major in them. It's just defenses are just too good what
they just are. But you can get once in a while sprinkle in a make it easy on your offense, but it's just really hard to major in them. And I think that's what I've learned from two is like we've given it a chance. The Dolphins gave it a chance to run that heavy RPO system. I don't think it's it's tangible in the NFL.
Is there something you can glean from that because I've actually seen data points of like, okay, RPOs removed, this is what a quarterback does or can't do. Is there something you can take from like the ability to decide quickly, the ability to read a defense quickly, because that is what an RPO demands a quarterback do. Is there something that you can take from that element of I mean all of these guys have run it to a certain extent. Is something you can take from that?
Yeah? And it's processing is did they make the give or take read properly? And that's really is they asked him to do this, Did he execute it properly or did he just pull it to call his own number? And they've just made it to a terrible situation. And also just trace wise accuracy. That's mac Row's best strength really is his how how quick of a trigger? He asked? Like how quick he It's like a shortstop. That's actually his biggest positive. And that's what you look at too.
It's just like are you able to squeez in the tight spaces? Are you able to change arm angles? That's another skill that these guys have to have. Everything's not with drill work. You just catch it. Everything's perfect throw, you have to change it down below, over the top, put touch on it. So those are a little trait things that you look at for those.
Is anything appear to you jump off the videotape as it were about practice time limitation right? That these guys are limited. I mean they can watch as much tape as they want to do. They can do walk through as they have summer throwing sessions, things of that nature. But you are limited as a college player that you can only practice so much. That you can look at a quarterback and say, man, it seems that by all accounts, he is very coachable. He is very eager to like
grind it out on the practice field. But you can tell that for whatever reason, the system that they're running, as you mentioned with Justin Herbert for example, is pretty simplistic and is not asking a lot of him. Is there a guy in this year's quarterback class that you can say, I see the potential jumping off the page if he gets to the right.
Place, Well, Malik Willis, That's yeah, that's the easy answer. I would say Desmond Ritter for this, But Desmond, I think is more of a he can go into a lot of systems and be okay in I think he can mentally handle that. I would saying Milik willis though, going to a system and just taking time it. Really I could see him kind of like fitting in in different like what you want to ask him, Boot game, sprint out game, a lot of you know, drop back,
launched the ball. I don't think quick game would be his his his forte ever, but I think Malik willis getting into a Shanahan type offense where they let him move out of the pocket a whole bunch of times, but also having someone he can sit behind where he doesn't have to be the guy, and so that narrows down where he could fit in even more specifically, But that would be an idealistic situation for him. From Milik willis from liberty because he just needs a little He
needs time. It's just not even just the offense he's running, because it's just burbage. Because going from Hugh Freees offense which is very simple, to reading defenses, that's where I actually think his biggest growing pains will happen. He can figure out everyone, He's smart enough, he can figure out the terms and blah blah blah. It's just rope memorization, but figuring out how the defenses are and what they can do, and what they looks are, where the pressure's
coming from. That's going to take the most time for him. So I think being in a system that makes it easier on him would be the best.
I saw an observation Nate from Max Brown of the PAC twelve network who pointed out that when he watched tape on the leak Willis, he noticed that he padded the ball before all of his throws, And you know, he went into a little bit of detail as to why that's not a good thing and how at this stage in his career, maybe that's something you can coach out of him. Maybe it isn't, But you know, there's such level of detail that goes into these scouting grades.
I mean, is there any way to quantify how big of a project the guy like a Malik Willis is versus a guy like I mean, frankly, all of these quarterbacks are a project on some level, right, But is there any way to quantify that in your mind? Like who comes with the greatest risk but potentially the greatest reward?
Yeah? I how I have gone about it, and I've stolen this from basketball like a so tim I'm a misso Timberwolves fan and they're playing the playing game this week. So yeah. Also yeah, but there there there's a blog that's be a nation blog for them that's actually pretty great called canus hoopis. But in there a guy that he was just a commentator that ended up now he works for the Nuggets. Uh, he would just do star, starter, bench or bust, and just how to discern these guys.
And ever since I've stolen that when I'm breaking prospects, is what's his likelihood of being a star, what's his like Gohood being starter, bench or bust, you know, role player bust. And that's looking at Willis and just trying to give you an answer on this is quantifying that is that he has the highest star potential of these guys. He has the if we put it twelve percent, you know, or eight percent something like that, but he has maybe the lower starter potential where it's just like, hey, he's
just the guy. Or and he also has the highest bunch of bus potential as well, because it's just like he could just totally flame out and all that. So
when you're right, when you go with these guys. And that's what's so crazy for me is I have a same kind of a year grade with Picket as Willis, but kind of that middle late second, early third is you're kind of like you give a half round inflation for a quarterback, So if I have a mid second round grade, you take them in the late first Like that kind of is how it goes, like a little bit.
That's why Trevor Lawrence and these guys last year, it's like, no, I have a top five grade on them, Well let's take them number one. That's pretty easy. But like with these guys, it's you have that half ground inflation and now it's now you get into the risk reward game. Is how high do you take a guy like Willis? Like I would never take them, like at the highest I would take him as like the thirties, you know,
thirties or forties. But teams are sounding starting to take sound like they take them to the lottery because of that percentage of the star. That's what you're you're I think the Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes playoff game broke people's brains and now everyone's just like we need that, we need that and it's like, yes, you do need that, but you also need these guys to operate from the pocket as well with the creation stuff. You need both now
like you need these guys need to be so superheroes. Now, it's ridiculous what these quarterbacks can do, this new age and these these mid twenties guys. But I don't know if this is a long winded answer to say, like you you have to take in the risk of where you're taking the pick and understand what your situation is. But I think everybody has that percentage that that bench, that star, that started percent percentage different with each of these guys. But that's just how I look at them.
Well and answer your question.
No, no, you did.
You did.
And I think you're you're sort of pushing up against something else that you've been saying that really the consensus for this draft that there is no consensus.
Yeah, at a lot of.
Positions, quarterback chief among them. We can talk about des Ritter. You're really high on Deserritter. You' ranked him as your top quarterback. And you know, this is one of those things where I think for dumb dums like Dan and I who aren't in the weeds we're not looking at the video. We see what we see on Saturdays and we kind of break it down from our chair here. But we see des ridder and we say, Okay, there's
been an inconsistency in his game. We see desert to throw behind guys, particularly games, as you rightfully pointed out, you look at the tape and you say, well, in some cases he's trying to throw behind him. In other cases, maybe he's just jacked up early in the game. Desmond Ritter is a guy that we've had her eye on for quite some time. Obviously made the playoff this year, had a really good season, really good career with Cincinnati.
What makes him your top quarterback prospect in twenty twenty two.
Yeah, I've kind of called him the comedians comedian, Like that's kind of what he's been, I'm telling you, Like how you described him a little bit is what I went into him as I barely watched him in twenty twenty, Like I watched, you know, the game against Georgia, and that was kind of like, oh, okay, he's fun. That's
how I looked at him. He's fun. There's difference between good and fun though, and then when I watched him in October, I would say October and November for the first time on actual tape film all twenty two whatever you want to call it, the cloud, thunder, exos, whatever, whatever term I want to use for it. When I watched him Alston, I was like, Oh shit, you actually like process and you actually like do all the little
things that is needed in the NFL. We talk about all the creation stuff you need that you need to be able to create. Go get a bucket as the term I use, but also you need to be able to do the stuff in the pocket. And the fact that I've seen him create throughout his career, that was what I knew him as as an athlete, as a
guy that can go. I mean like, I was not surprised by his forty time because I've seen this guy turn on the jets and pull away from everybody, and then all of a sudden, I'm watching him against Indiana. The's point protections out and he's moving guys and not just like killing a play where they go from run to pass play, but actually telling the center, Hey you have the point over there. I'm switching the point over here. Hey, Jerome Ford running back, you got that guy and then
snap the ball and deliver a pass. And that's what it kind of perked me up. I seeing him do that over and over. This is all theory. You talk to a lot of these quarterbacks. They got on the whiteboard and they can draw it up then go oh, I changed the protection and I do all that, and as soon as the bullets start flying, they do not do that. They just go ready, go snap, I'm throwing
the ball. Like. But with Ritter, he was so calm in this processing, post pre am, post snap that I was like, That's what really turned me on to him. I know. That's my theory is I's so amped up. That's also about why I liked him, though, is that he's so competitive and I can tell that he is just how he everything, Like when a ball gets badded down or he misses a throat, you could see him just kind of go like he's not blaming the receiver
or anything. I've seen the receivers drop balls for him and he's mad at himself because he's like, oh, I should put it perfect. I was like, okay, that's kind of cool. Like and I've seen something with you where he's miked up and he's he was running away from a teammate and the team was like, oh, I would have caught you. And then he's like muttering to himself back He's like, no, you wouldn't have No, you want to And I was like, okay, this, this psycho robot
is my guy. Like I like this. So a lot of the mentality that he has, the fact that he is has improved, much like a Joe Burrow has where they just took a huge leap from one year to the next, as far as how he works in the pocket, how he is processing. Decides like, okay, so you have a you want to get better. That's what you have as a pro. You are your own coach. You want to make yourself better. That's what all the best of the best, they just the Dak Prescott's of the world.
They are psychos. All right, I'm gonna spend this much money to like make sure I can do you know, the hit movements right and get the footwork right. I can already see that kind of wiring with Ritter, and so that's why I really liked him. The accuracy stuff you brought it up. I do think the early stuff is because he's amped up, but also his foot work stuffs still little bit inconsistent, so he can, you know, overstride and he'll miss high and the ball just zooms.
And that's the thing. His misses are bad, like they go ten yards over a guy's head and it's like, oh boy, Desman, come on, come on, come on, hone in, hone in. We're good. But I do like that he's able to attack all three levels of the field. He runs true drop back concepts, which is rare at the college level to see him that run that well, he's sitting deep passes like he's doing a lot of same throws that like Stafford was not like to that level
where he's doing trick shots and stuff. But as far as like as he's processing, he's getting to backside reads. That stuff is tangible, That stuff translates, and so that's why we do the star starter stuff. His star percentage might be as high, but a starter percentage is a huge chunk, bigger than I think a lot of these other guys in this class.
I want to stick with concepts. And I don't know if this is specifically draft related, but because you're watching so much, and because you're watching so many varied styles and because we know on a certain level, scheme and concept sometimes trickles up high school level to college to pro whether it's you know, jet motion or RPOs, things tend to go in that direction at least sometimes are there specific schools? Are there, specific systems? Are there specific concepts?
Are there specific coaches that do things that you're like, Hey, that's a fun and weird thing that this team is doing. Hey, it's interesting how they stack the plays on this drive to like work off of each other. Or it's interesting how they used this sort of h BAC or this sort of you know, guy in the slot. Is there that team or those or are there those coaches that you're like, I don't know, this is kind of like a fun little situation brewing here.
Yeah. One of the most fun watches from me was South Dakota State, Okay, and I believe that OC went to Idaho. I think he did or something of that sort. I'm not sure, but that offense was like a fever dream, like they had like six different versions of QB sneaks and like fake TV snakes. I know it was. I had to watch the running back Pierce Straw and I was watching that offense. I was like, this is kind
of fun. Coastal Carolina does a lot of goofy fun stuff. Yeah, and that one again, that one's like a fever dream. I'm gonna use the same the same adage for that because that one is like they it's almost like a triple option offense, but it's not. It's like it's it's weird. They just do everything, but they do like but it makes sense. Like their guys are really well coached. That's what. They're a very fun unit to watch. I get they're winning, so obviously that he was, but they do a lot
of fun stuff. Also Louisiana Lafayette, which is just also they just do a lot of sound stuff. I would say on the defensive front, what Derek Mason did at Aupera and actually like flash some like really uh like some cool stuff. He was the defense coordinator left right, Yeah, and that was kind of and that's just me as like watching I was watching offensive guys, but I would watch them go against aubres defense and I realized that their defense was up and down, so I maybe caught
three good games of it. But he was doing some sweet stuff on defense and just more again this is more just soundness and and and there's a couple of plays that have been stolen already, So I wish I could be like, oh, yeah, we're gonna steal I could see this one coming into the NFL. I would say some of the stuff that might be matriculating to the NFL is some of the motion stuff with RPOs where people just more grab back stuff that they can pull from in the NFL level where they just maybe have
a guy in motion and reading the flat there. Cincinnati doesn't play. I've seen the Texans run this when when Deshaun Watson and Bill O'Brien were there. I don't even if I could say Deshaun Watson's name, but they run this. They run this just this RPO where it's it's zone read, but then the tight end is what in a run sense, it's called split zone where they kick out the backside d N but they don't block him and he just runs to the flat. And it's such a simple play.
So basically you're creating as a naked bootleg as well with the zone read all in one play. And I'm shocked teams haven't stolen this because at the end of NFL you can do this because the offensive line can't get downfield on this one. So I've only seen one NFL team really run it. I've seen the Chiefs run it maybe once. But I'm wait for teams to run that more because that thing is stealing. Like the Cincinnati ran that like twelve times a game. It was awesome.
It was just like run his zone, drone forward going for fifteen yards, or we're just gonna throw it to the tight end in the flat for an eight yard since. Yeah, it was like the easiest play. But wait for that one to get maybe proliferate more throughout the league.
Did you have any at least to your eyes, accidental discoveries along the way as you were watching player, a quarterback, a and You're like, who is this receiver or who is this right tackle? Who is just smothering dudes? Like I guess it's the old Aaron Rodgers story, right. Jeff Tedford went to the JC to look at a tight end and he was.
Like, who is this quarterback in there?
Who is? Yeah? Do have any like surprise pops really either side of the ball? You know, if the safety pops or a right tackle or a receiver, who are you? Who are your surprise, pops, and they don't even have to be in this year's draft class. But don't jumped out to you.
Oh easily, it's Will Levis or Leavis. I'm not making sure it was safe.
I have a question about Will left Levis curiosity.
I went down to Will Levis question continue.
I'm sorry, yeah, no, no, it's uh. I'm excited to talk about him, and I kind of dropped drop hints on him. Yeah, I was stunned. I was watching Wendelle Robinson the receiver, and I liked him. I compared him to Cole Beasley, which I was pretty proud of. So watching him and all of a sudden, I'm seeing this quarterback and it was it was the Georgia game. It was the first my first exposure to him and ball just popping out of his hand and I was like, okay,
that's pretty interesting. You throw it kind of funky because he like he does everything really quick, like it's just like its just the ball just comes out. And I was really surprising me. But he was big, he was scrambled around, he was running over guys. I was stunned how much I liked him. I watched a couple other games. Iguinst Iowa. I think it the Bowl game, I think another game in between there, and I was like, okay,
like there's something to this guy. It's one of those where I'm like, I'm gonna keep a tab on you see how you grow this next year. But he was one that shocked me. I actually was like, are you draft eligible? What's what's double check? Make sure? But he's coming back for another year. So but yeah, that one was out of nowhere. I couldn't believe how much I liked him.
Yeah, I so I'm a pen stater. I don't have your f oh.
Okay, yes, I don't have a free person always just does this. I want to have this.
I'm a pen stater. I'm familiar with Will's early discography, and needless to say, it was a little underwhelming. Part of that could have been the system he was in. Obviously a lot better under Liam Cohen and Kentucky, and plenty of room to grow this year. But I will admit, Nate, when I saw you had some first round steam on him on your Twitter, I was like, Ooh, I need to make sure I'm fastened to this chair right now. I did not see that coming.
This and this is where I'm telling you, I get this exposure to guys like this is the same thing with happening me with Ritter. I was like, I, I've never heard of this guy, Like I watched him play once and then, so it's kind of fun. So some of that, like like you said the early discography, like I didn't, I don't. I didn't. I didn't hear that.
Album Ate Baggage though.
No, I just heard the mixtape and I was like, hey, he was featured on this song and it was pretty good. Like I liked him on that feature, So maybe I'm gonna check out his his whole album. And that's that's and I could see him like even if you look at his stats, he's like I think, like twenty four touchdowns, he still had twelve picks and you can still see some dummy in them. So that's why he's not perfect. But it was like, that's it's the flashes of him.
So I but every Penn State person I've talked to has just gone, man, he he was like Taysom Hill when we had him, Like he was just some run he was just some run around gadget guy. And so that's that's what's interesting. That he's I've heard that he's worked with a coach just like Ritter has, where he's really like a private coach where he's really worked on his all of his pocket stuff. So maybe some of
that stuff's coming to fruition with him. He might drop off the face of the ear who knows it doesn't stuff so hard, But you.
Know you bring that up, right, so you know, I'm sure you've gotten the commentary from Penn State people. And if we expanded out not just Will Levis, but like draft time, when you're evaluating talent, it's got to be a massive exercise in avoiding group think because, especially now in the media world, everybody's trying to get clicks. You know this now, right like everybody's trying to get clicks. Everyone's trying to have the hot take that makes their
stuff pop, makes their star rise a little bit. For lack of better terms, like, how do you avoid those pitfalls and sort of come to your own conclusion when there is so much out there I saw today, I mean I looked at a couple different mock drafts even before this interview. There really is no consensus. People think Aiden Hutchinson's the number one pick. But there's like fifteen
other opinions out there. How difficult is it? Give voice to how difficult it might be to kind of formulate your own opinion in this time where there are so many to go around.
No, And that's a great point to make, or a great question run is just do the work and come to your own come to your own conclusions, like yes, and I'll be a liar if I said I don't. If I ignore the noise and I don't look at what other people are saying that, I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and say I don't. I say, for me, is you kind of go okay, this is where these guys are kind of in the area that they're in. Okay, people are kind of talking
about this guy as the first rounder. But for me, how I just go about it is yeah, just doing the work and that kind of leads to its own conclusions and that this is just for me and just
like having my own statement on something. That's why I think I was I was really early my love for Desmond Ridder was I just wanted to be like, hey, this is funny that I say I'm going to I'll admit to trying to form that internet dopamine as well, is going like, hey, this is my guy that I'm playing my flag on, Desmond Ridder because I wanted to just go I'm not a Johnny come Lately. I'm watching him and this is what I think after watching all these top guys. And so there's a little bit that
where you have to do that to stand out. Otherwise people just go, oh, you just you're you're just crowdsourcing. You know, You're you're just taking what everybody else.
No situation for you.
It really is, it really is. And but that's for me is just trying to do the work and watch actually watching these guys and taking the notes and just going like this is what how I feel like I everybody's gonna have their own personal biases, you know, with with these guys and going like, I have a certain like a receiver. I love big ball winners like I just do. I I like size at my at the receiver position, actually really every position. That's just what I have liked. That's a In the NFL, a lot of
stuff becomes durability question marks. Like that's why people always go, wow, why did this guy making the NFL? Well he's probably five nine one eight, Like you know that that doesn't hold off in the NFL once you're a freak. But that's where I I that's why I'm gonna have my own personal biases. But I'm always going to just go like, well, you know, the stat people really like this guy. All Right, I'm gonna take him. I'm gonna give him a second look.
Oh this guy ran a four three eight at the combine. Well you know I have a second round grade on him. All right, I'll take a second look. So that's really it's just we're all going to have our own processes for it. But that's just mine doing the work. He's just taken all the data points. But also real quick is that you're saying there's no consensus. I actually think that's what makes it so fun for this draft class. Oh yeah, because it's going like, all right, what do
you see? Like what everybody's it's eye of the beholder always. But now as opposed to like last year we had so many blue chip, true blue chip guys, this year it's more going like a right, who's seeing the right things or is making the best educated guesses?
You mentioned your own kind of bias towards size in the NFL, I want to talk about some of the other skill positions if they could quickly before we.
Let you go.
But especially on the receiver side. I heard a recent show you did with Robert and you talk about Drake London as your top receiver and you like him because he's got the size. He won what was it, nineteen fifty to fifty balls, some ridiculous percentage, right, He's clearly a freak. On the flip side, you've got a guy like a Chris a Lave who is smaller but seems to be a really gifted root runner, could find his
place in the NFL because of that. I'm curious to get more of a breakdown of that wide receiver possition because you know, when it comes to draft day, it is a position that is much talked about. We see these guys out there on game day every Saturday. How that game translates to the NFL, at least for me personally as a college football fan, I've always had a really hard time figuring out who's gonna pop at the next level and who isn't. How do you kind of do that calculus from your side?
Yeah, and a lot of it is. This is where tape because receivers is some of these guys get six targets in a game, and if you only watch those six targets, you're missing out on sixty other plays where you can get something from these guys where they're just running a route but not getting to target. And you can see them working against press or working a route that they haven't gotten the ball on, but you can see them running that type of route of the route tree.
So that's where you know, watching these guys really comes up also seeing their effort and blocking. And I know that sounds like, Oh, I think I've won some people over on it on our show because they thought it was just like oh coaching, Like, ah, you're just an old coach. I talks about it matters. It really matters because if you want to be in three wide receivers and run the ball, those receivers have to block, like if you're taking off tight ends and fullbacks like that's
what they have to do. It's just part of the position now. And so watch that's where some of the size stuff comes in and more of just toughness. And that's what's so funny is that I'll start with him is Chris olave Is. He's not usually the guys I like, I like. I love his route running. He is advanced, as one of the most advanced route runners I've ever seen come out of the college level. On top of that,
he has speed, legit speed that he uses. It's not just a theory thing where it's like, oh, you ran a four to three eight, I thought you're gonna be a four or five guy. It's actually he uses that speed to his advantage. I like his ball scales, his his My negatives with him is he is smaller as far as play strength. He's not a good blocker. He can get pushed around more physical guys, but how he
can overcome it because he's so skilled. So that's why I'm okay with him as opposed to usual with the smaller guys or skinnier guys, I should say, because it's not smallly six foot U. There's just skinny. He's just skinny, and that always matters with durability stuff. But then Drake london Is, I went in that's what I thought. I thought it was just gonna be some big dude, almost like one of the Clemson guys that's come through the years.
Mike Williams the t Higgins of the world. He's just big, big, almost stiff, but just like snatch everything. And why I loved London so much was he was sinking on routes. He was you could see the athleticism. Even if his long speed's not there, his one through ten speed was actually pretty good. And also being able to like like actually like run a full rout tree even if that was an a it's a true air raid offense that they ran. And oh my god, so many screens. I couldn't believe how many.
Oh my god, Hey, you have Drake London and you're throwing him short balls all the time.
All over and over. And also the quarterback was late all the time, and that's where some of the separation like arguments came from. Well we can't separate. It's like, no, he separated. The quarterback was three seconds late, so he had to play in his foot and go up and get it. Against Oregon State, I watched him and he had he legitimately drew five penalties in that game or more. That's just off the top of my head I can remember.
So it's like he's dominating like he is dominating as much as you can see a receiver dominate at the college level. And the versatility that he brings. He can work from the slot, he can block like they have him running like tight end blocking stuff. So it's like, this guy, no matter what I think, it could just be useful, like and if the upside, he still has upside. Though he's super young, he's just become like finally becoming a full time football player for the first time in
his life. I just like, I just like the package of him, size, ball skills, route running, just all the like polishes already shown. And he's so young at such a young age. So that's why I really really like him. There's and there's a couple other guys, like bigger guys that I always gravitude towards, Like I'm high on Justin
Ross from Clenson. Sure, really it's And what's funny is I remember as a freshman, but really my grade off of him, I have early second grade on him, and medicals are going to be a train wreck for him. But is this past year I was watching him and I was like, this guy's a stud. It's just that the quarterback was hitting the stands on the throws. So this poor guy's bringing guys off on routes and then
seeing the ball like go over his head. He looks like, you know, like a pitcher that gives up a home run and the ball and they just look at the ball go over. That's that was justin ross running routes and then but what I liked about him was that
he would he would still compete as a blocker. He was still into the game even though the targets weren't coming, the stats weren't coming, So that really maybe I was like, okay, you're you get it, like you want to compete, and receivers can be come and go with their competition levels. So that's those are always positives that you want to see, you know, and then you want to just talk about the rest of the first round guys, I have go
for it. Yeah, but my number three is Jameson Williams, and I think everybody's watched college football or now knows about the draft knows what his game is. Speed, speed, speed. But what I liked about him is he was more of a real receiver than I thought he would be.
He actually knows how to run routes and actually knows how to tempo his stuff a bit of a body catcher, which I didn't like, but I I still like him as like he's useful, like no matter which team he goes to, they're gonna you always have a use for speed. And then next I really like Johan Dotson. I'm from Penn State. I know that that preaching to acquire probably here,
but I think he's just a ballplayer. I think he played with bad quarterback play, or if he quarterback play and he is, I think he's just a hell of a football player, plays big. I compared him to Tyler Lockett and then Traylon Burks from Arkansas, which is one of the weirdest studies I've ever had for the receiver position, just how they use him. I think he's a big boomer bust candidate. But if he gets to the right system that guides him along, I think he still has
to learn how to play football. I don't think his understanding of the playbooks all the way there. That's why they motioned them so many times. They have to tag them and tell him, hey, Traylon moved to the right, run this route. So I do think there's part of that. So his learning curves can be a little steeper, but if he hits, he'll he'll hit pretty well because he's
just so has so many cool traits. And the last one's Garrett Wilson from Ohio State, which I'm a little I have some concerns with his route running, how he plays against press, but when you just get the ball in his hands and it's just like, go do stuff because he's so dynamic. I couldpare it him to Brandon Ayuk from who's with the forty nine ers now, where it's it's a little bit more boom busty, but it's like, just get the ball in his hands and let him go make plays.
Who is the highest star potential guy on your board, either any position, any side of the ball, whatever you mentioned. Malik Willis has the highest star potential of any of the quarterbacks. But just in terms of like, look, you're in Vegas. If you're betting ten thousand of your own American dollars that this person will be a pro bowler, who is that person?
Drake London? I do I think that if he I'm not as concerned about as long speed. I know he hasn't run and he keeps putting off his pro day. But I'm not as concerned as other people are because he just win. Like it's just a useful NFL player, NFL receiver, and I think that if he does take a next step that it's like, oh, who's going to guard him? Like it's I've seen, I've seen now for seven years. No one could guard Mike Evans once unless you just double team on basically every play. I don't.
I think he's not as big or as truly as explosive as Mike Evans is, but I think he's more skilled. So it's kind of like a fun match. I know I'm super high on them. I feel right crazy. I go crazy on him, but then I just watch. Every time I rewatch them, I'm like, yeah, I double down on that. But I do think he has some of the most star potential, especially of this crops. It's a good cropper receivers, it really is.
It must be by the way, it must be maddening, and you know, it's it's easy to dig on where USC has been these past couple of years. To look at players. You're like, he's definitely getting the ball, like he's to everybody knows he's getting the ball or everybody knows this running back is getting the ball, everybody knows where this this team has to go because there's so little talent or organization, and yet the guy still succeeds.
And there are examples of that up and down. The NFL guys who were taking the lower rounds were just like they somehow always got open. They somehow and so it's got to be infuriating to you to to have to watch these bad football teams with these like lone shining stuff who are not maximizing their winning potential.
It's rough. It's rough when you I've realized every time I do this, I'm like, oh, I've been spoiled with NFL play. You're just like even the quote unquote bad NFL teams, it's like you still watch them. You're like they're still doing cool stuff or this player is fricking awesome. Like, but yeah, you watch these college games and it's I've gotten spoiled. Not we just play, but just quarterback play.
Because USC was one of them. I'm watching these guys take forever to get rid of the ball, and I'm like, the throws there, just throw it, just please, for the love of God, just hit them and or watching Clemson and seeing like I was like, man, this guy is taking the long wind up and the balls over. That's yeah, that's h yeah. After receiver positions where that crops up the most, because you'll go fifty snaps where they don't even get a target, and so you get a little bit bit bored watching them.
On the flip side, though, I mean, and we'll let you out of here in a couple of minutes, but you've been terrific, so I'm just going to keep you as long as we possibly can. On the flip side, you'll watch teams who are so deep and so talented and so much more talented than the competition. And you mentioned this a little bit with Tua, like he has
to run the RPO stuff. But on a certain level, whether it's Alabama or Ohio State or what Clemson was or some of the better teams in the country, are you like, yeah, but it's a little bit easier for them because this guy's the number three receiver and numbers one and two are getting so much attention. So he's drawing, you know, a worse corner or a worse nickel or whatever, or this offensive lineman is drawing you know or is
surrounded by other crazy talented guys. So this defensive lineman is playing with another guy who's getting double teams all the time. Like, how is it difficult to sift through a more advantaged player.
I guess yeah, yeah, yes, and no, it's especially for quarterbacks. It's the offensive line. Yeah, and what they have to deal with, Like that was that speaks to Ritter a little bit more? Was no one really brought up the Cincinnati offensive line. They were not good, right, they were like below I would say average. I'll put them at average, but they they watching them and that's like it speaks more to Ritter. But then you watch another guy I'm trying to think of, like one of the past, maybe
Mac Jones last year. I was just bring him up, but like just sitting there and they just get to hang out. And just or Russell Wilson when I played with him at Wisconsin where it's just he just hung out in the pocket. It was just like one, you know, one Mississippy two Mississippi kind of like all right, I'm gonna go scramble, just go make something happen. So you always have to take that into account. You also get kind of a good litmus test kind of going like seeing,
especially like running back, this will happen a lot. Okay, this running back goes, he gets three carries. Okay, it looks okay. How does his backup look getting behind the same offensive line, same play, same situation. That was That's the position I think more than others, you can really get a tell for a situation and based on how
their backup does. Like That's one of the reasons I was kind of lower on Isaiah Spiller a textas a and m I'd watch his backup go in and get break off and explosive play, and then he goes and he gets fars and I was like, man, this one was actually blocked better, Like you got to you got to, you know, make something happen with it. So I would say that position, more than others, you can really see stuff. I would say, quarterback, Yeah, you have to take that
into account. This is like I was watch Ritter and this is again I'm mister optimist on him, but you watch him unless he's thrown to Alec Pierce, who I also like the receiver or the tight end Wiley. Everybody else was dropping the ball every like every other time. It would him right the chest and drop it. So you take that into the count You're like, well, I'm going to watch the process at this guy. Yeah, don't look at the result, look at the process leading up
to that. Especially all these guys, it's process, process, process, and then it leads to good results. If you're on a good team, the good results happen all the time. If you're on a bad team, it's like, wow, that process was good. Another drop, All that process was good. Left guard got beat. You know, you know that those things start adding up. I think that's a big difference. Is the good teams get the results more, which makes sense with all the wins.
Yes, Nate, I know we've asked you about, you know, some very specific draft things here, but who are just some other names guys that you came across, Maybe not the accidental discovery is Dan description earlier, but just guys that you like, Guys that you enjoyed watching on tape, who you were rooting for on draft day.
Yeah. Khalil Shakir from Boise State is probably one of my favorite watches of any position. I have a high second round grade on him. I'm shocked, like I'm waiting for people to catch people like him, but I thought kind of maybe he ran pretty well at the combine. I thought maybe he'd get another little bump. But I love him. I think he's a returner. I think he's gonna be a very useful and early in his career.
Number two can play slot and play outside. Good route runner, he's just got short arms, but good returner, like just a ballplayer. I really like him. Other guys like Sky Moore. I'm not the first person to say that they like him. I've already brought up I've already brought up Justin Ross, who I'm super high on that. You know, the injury concerns is what's gonna what's gonna make him drop a little bit? That's our receiver. I would sy tight end Greg Dolcic from u c l A. Yeah, I really.
He's been a late rise. He was a declare. That's where we're talking about, Oh wow, this guy's eligible, had no idea and they need declare And I was like, oh God, I gotta watch him real quick. And I was like, oh man, he's pretty damn good. Runs like a deer like he is. I compared him actually to Jared Cook, which is like so funny because he's really high cut, really long legged, so it kind of actually hurts him blocking because he can't get low and this is a detailed like this is just ran this as
I is. But then but he can run and take like a true vertical threat or at the tight end position. I really like him. Kate Otten from Washington, good blocking tight end, kind of does everything well. Really like him. Another Derek D's from San Jose State. He's like a Day three guy, but I really like him as well. He didn't run or anything, so I'm a little I always hate that. Like I went to the Shrine game, I was waiting for him. I was like, this is
kind of my baby, like my little dark horse. And then he didn't He got he got he like got an ankle, rolled, rolled an ankle, sprained ankle, like individual first first practice and he didn't practice. I like dropped him around because I was so frustrated with them. But I would give him a chance. I would say, even if we're going running backs. I really like Rashad White of Arizona's statement, that's kind of like my little he
was their offense dude. He is I like I was because I saw Richard senior with him and I was like, Okay, that's running back. You don't really want to see that. And then you watch him and he is talented. He is such a fun player. Tyler al Jeer, I like him. For BYU compared him with James Connor type. I like Jerome Ford from Cincinnati. Those guys, I really like all of them. I got one other guy and it's like it's on the tip of my tongue and now I can't think of his name. But anyways, those guys are
oh ty Chandler from North Carolina. I like him as a Day three guy, a little long legged, but I think he's usfual. I think someone's going to gonna like him a little bit. But yeah, I really like this running back class. There's a lot of like round three, round four types that a couple of them are going to hit for somebody.
Final question. You're in Vegas. You've talked about preferring size from your NFL draft prospects. My co host Tye does is a five tool player. But if there's something that Tie does not bring to the table, it is elite size. About five to nine? What buck sixty, buck fifty five? Where are you at right now.
Yeah, I'm not starting in the league.
You're not starting in the league. But my question to you, as somebody who prefers and has been around size, you're in Vegas. If TIE is in Vegas and you can't answer buffet or anything like that. We're building quality mass on Tie via a series of meals. What is your itinerary for TIE building quality mass in restaurants in Las Vegas.
I would start with lunch at Good Pie, which is a great call. Yeah, pizza joint in downtown Vegas, which is it's area called It's on Main Streets the Arts District, which is which is basically they threw a bunch of hipsters at it and it became a spot and it's great. It's great though, by the Yeah Good Pie. I would start with lunch there, dinner it would be all, my god, dinner. You go a million places. I like Al Mafi at freaking at Caesar's, trying to run my brain here. That's
my my terranean style. There's a place out here in the suburbs in Summerlin called Harlow's, which is a steakhouse at I adore I look, it's by Rob mary Neelli, the former coaches his daughter. She's she's a chef, she's awesome, But Harlow's out here. I would also go to Italy, which is a multiple places. There's one work, there's other, but there's a sandwich there. I would also get, so if you're going in between lunch and dinner, I would get a sandwich there. There's a it's like a it's
super simple. It's just a really good bread. They put all of oil, salt, pepper, and just like a little wolf some meat on there.
I think I had.
Yeah, it's so freaking good. And I'm trying to think of other dinner places. I kind of like I'm kind of a grab back because there's like seven places I like buy them all the same rating. So really dinner you can kind of what you choose where you want to bulk up there.
Have you done? Have you done Carbone?
Oh? Yes, I did it last week actually with my parents. Yeah, that's a good spot. That's actually really good.
Well, it's it's a it's like elevated red sauce Italian tie and you're gonna do real well, Like you can stuff yourself with the bread that they they'll bring you like a basket. The size of your torso of bread with soapro soada and parmesan cheese.
And but what about the vodka sauce, Dan, You know that's mine. So that's that's their strength. Tie they have like the rigatoni and spicy vodka sauce. That's all right, it's we're coming out to Vegas. Yeah, coming out.
We got to do this, Dan, Yeah done.
I think I think it'll be the first tourists ever to come to Vegas. I don't know, but I guess you would. Yeah.
Fair enough.
Of The Athletic The Athletic Football Show. We appreciate your time, We appreciate you making us a little bit smarter. Hope you get some sleep over the next couple of weeks. I know, I know it can be kind of crazy leading up to the draft and in the immediate aftermath. But thank you so much for hopping on with us here.
Thanks for having me, guys.
This is a lot of fun, all right. There you go, Yeah, Tice the Athletic Go check him out on The Athletic Football Show. He and Robert May is doing an awesome job breaking down all things NFL right now. Of course, the big topic is the upcoming NFL draft, Daniel.
Yeah, I'm excited to watch. My very specific watch plan is the same thing every year. It's Thursday night. I say, oh man, here's the NFL Draft. I watch the first seventeen picks. I go to bed, and then I wake up the next morning and I say, WHOA, Okay, interesting. And then I watched the first three picks of the second round, and then I go do something else, and I just keep checking my phone and I say whoa.
And I just keep doing that, and then I'll tune back in and I'm always I always like seeing the like the swap in and out of analysts on the ESPN or NFL network set or whatever, and then them start to get loopy deep into the draft where they have to go to the back through. They're hungry, they're thirsty, they're glassy eyed, they haven't slept in seventeen days. I always like the wild card element of that. So I'm in for all sorts of different amounts of fun with the draft. I love it.
My best draft memory was back in twenty thirteen. I can't tell you who was picked, but that was the year I had my reconstructive shoulder surgery. Okay, and you just I mean, you can't do anything. I watched all of the Wire and all of the NFL Draft in the span of like two weeks.
Weird combo.
Yeah, it's true. They do get loopy after a while because it's all filler. And you know from doing this show, we do what an hour hour and fifteen minute show here a couple times a week. Even within the span of this show. We try to limit the amount of filler that we have, but it happens. It's inevitable. Those guys, those guys have to deal with it. I can't imagine what it's like to try and host that coverage, what it's like to try and provide a different slant when
you're on day talking about guys. No one's ever heard of doing interviews trying to move the coverage seven hours day here, it's it. I'm equally as impressed by the level of analysis as I am by just the production behind the scenes of keeping the thing afloat.
Have you ever watched it from the other side, where like the Cults or the Bengals or the Cowboys, you get to see the behind the scenes show. Whether it's I mean, there's a hard Knocks in season now, there's all sorts of behind the are some teams just film it themselves. And of course it's the very serious.
War room, right, it's the draft war room.
They're like they're doing something extremely internationally important. And there's thirty seven people in a room and they're all pumping their fists because they got their like number seven linebacker in the fourth round. And I know this is their lives. I know this is their jobs. I know all of the seriousness that goes with like making the correct or
indirect indirect decision. But the seriousness with which those shows are edited and the compounds, the facilities are laid out, and the giant whiteboards and the moving pieces, it does make me giggle.
Tie.
It makes me giggle that it's.
This industry and this war room and like the phone calls all right, let's do it. Yeah, it's great. It's I love the theater of it all. And I don't know how if you're a football fan you can't appreciate how lovingly ridiculous it can all seem. Well, and on top of it, the drafts in Vegas. Yep, the drafts in Vegas. It was supposed to be in Vegas.
I think a couple of years ago, right, and yeah when virtual Yeah, so I'm I'm curious to see the pomp and circumstance, particularly as it relates to the first round, because I have heard varying accounts of what that will look like from a TV standpoint, and I'm excited for it.
Wait, do you have a song pick, like the song of the year, the commercial bumper where it was like, oh no, that's all Like, remember we called that like in twenty sixteen or twenty thirteen or whatever year it was we got it that one year. Yeah, well it's there because you pay attention. I douse.
I need to think a little bit more about this. Maybe it's something we could talk about on Thursday.
I'm going to have much more time.
Yeah, I'm gonna come armed with a list of five songs.
I'm not going to look it up.
I think they may actually publicize it. I won't look it up. Okay, that that spoils the fun.
I don't want to do that.
I will try to. I will comb through the top forty list and see what pop songs I can come up with that seemed like they would work. I have a few off the top of my head, but I need to. I need to actually put some research into this one.
Are you a Vegas person, by the way, I'm a Vegas person for forty eight hours max? Yeah, anything more than that, and uh, you know, maybe it's different if you live there.
If it you know, you kind of.
Put roots down.
It's a full on city. Yeah, that's different. But as for a tourist destination, I forty eight hours, maybe seventy two hours tops, but after.
That, it's time.
What are your priorities there?
I mean the priorities use Well, I've been out there for the NCAA tournament, which is awesome. Yeah, it's a great time on Incidemat tournament, and the priority was hard gambling when I was there.
On basketball, on table games.
Well on what well, I was there for college basketball, so it was it was basically wagering on as many games as possible, okay, and then playing blackjack. But that was also before all of these things became more mainstream and more prevalent pretty much anywhere you live. Sure, so I'm not sure what the preference would be if I went back, but at least the time I was there, the one time I was in Vegas, it was pretty much, let's watch as much basketball as we can.
Oh, that's the only time. That was the Loane visit to Vegas, Okay, the only time. Yeah, Yeah, Vegas is pretty good. I'm not a gambler, I'm not a drinker. I'm not a clubber. I'm not a strip club person. But man, in my old age, do I just want to go and eat all of the food. It is such a great restaurant city, not even just the strip, even beyond that that. That's to me why I would return to just and you know, go to a comedy
show or two or something like that. But man, so many restaurants I want to try out in the desert. So yeah, that's all I have to contribute to that. And oh, man, Vegas, Yeah, I haven't been in a long time, long long time. Yeah, I would like to go back. All right, that's all. I think. That's all I have. I would be remiss on another level, though, Tie.
Maybe somebody found our show through Nate or through the Draft or something like that, or just found it recently, and I imagine somebody says to themselves, you know, the content's okay, but damn, do Dan and Tie sound good? We've gotten that note? Like, man, you guys sound good, and I want I got to tell you just in the light of in light of I guess these past few days, it's definitely Tie. It's definitely Tie. Who makes this show sound as good as it does. I've gotten better,
but it's definitely Tie. And so I just want to give you a bit of a background after these past few days, if you'd like to know why our show sounds so good and so legendary. It's from the majestic heights of the Steel Stacks. What is this to the insight of the National Museum of Industrial History, the whispering winds of Klein Farms, Tie, the wonder of the Da Vinci Science Center, and up to the peaks and vistas of Hawk Mountain and the Wildlands Conservancy.
I hear the birds. I hear the birds. Those are not real birds. They sound like they're right next door.
It's the crisp compression, the legendarily unforgiving noise gates, an unmatched EQ Welcome to the mesmerizing digital audio landscape of tay Gusta National.
This is the dumbest thing you've ever done.
I love it. It's pretty good, right is great? I heard it yesterday and I was like, I don't know, I got to make this a stupid podcast thing because that's how my brain is has been shattered into uh what a track? And I did throw in fake bird sounds. Ty, you got some goldfinches, some robins, and there I did. I found, I found the track. And then I said, well, I've heard you know, CBS and the Masters they pipe in the bird sounds, and who would I be not to do the same.
They've got like a cardinal micd up. You can hear it on some holes.
It's very it's pretty I looked up bird sounds you can hear right. Yeah, how's the mix to you? It's good. You did. You're pretty good to you.
Give yourself a little.
Bit of credit.
You've done all the nuggets. You've done a lot of our shows.
You know what you're doing. I know, I know. It's just Tygusta National and hello friends. Oh so I took such a good nap yesterday. It's so good.
Congratulations Scotti, Scheffler. Yeah, hook them Texas Texas grad. Yeah, Texas finally wins something. Yeah, good on him ran away with it in the end. Yeah, I mean Texas in their lone huge football win. Beat Georgia, and so there's some sort of alignment there of Scotty chef Jordan Spi has won the Masters. Also a ut guy, Scotti Scheffler, originally from I think Ridgeway, New Jersey, which is fairly close to me, but moved down to Texas. More of
a Texas guy golf school. Yeah. Absolutely, so, well, look, this has been a fun show. Nate Tice. Go check him out. We're huge fans of Nate's work. The show that he does with Robert Mays is awesome. If you're into all things pro football, go check out the Athletic NFL Show. We'll be back on Thursday. I'm going to talk a little bit more about basically what's going on in college football. I know that's what we do here.
It is a college football show.
But now that we actually have some things to discuss, albeit scant with spring games just kind of starting up here in the month of April, we'll do our best to provide a recap of that. And are we doing the Q and A show?
Is that is that the Yeah? I think we're gonna do a MEGAQ and A.
Yeah. So if you've got questions, if you've got things that are pressing that you want to talk more about, hit us up Solidverbal at gmail dot com. Of course, if you are on the Patreon at verbowlers dot com, you can always send us in your thoughts via discord via Patreon itself. We'd love to get your thoughts on you know, what's going on in college football and what types of things we should address next, but we'll do
that on Thursday. Don't forget in the meantime if you did happen upon this show, didn't know about us before, Welcome on in Everybody's welcome. Thank you to ty Gustin National whatever we're calling this. Yeah, hit the subscriber follow button. We'd love to have you back for another show. And last, but not least, go to solid giveaway dot com. We are giving away free signed aj Brown Minnie helmet. You got a couple of weeks to get your name in.
That hat, all right? So I got notable who's a notable Butler? Welcome like welcome to Darius Butler Cabin. I'm so sorry for that guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein, form myself Tie Hill in the brand. Thanks so much for downloading, listening and playing along with our badness. At home.
We'll talk to you all in a few days, and meantime, stay solid, peace,