Welcome to the solid verbal hull. For me, I'm a man, I'm forty.
I've heard so many players say, well, I want to be happy.
You want to be happy for a day? Edo Steak is that woo woof?
And them and.
Tie Welcome back to the solburbal boys and girls. Money is tight, Helen Brand joining me as homies. Whoa over there in wintry Chicago, Illinois. Dan Rubinstein howry, I don't know why I did that. I apologize.
Yeah, your voice is all over the place right now. I'm just I'm thrilled to be here with you, and I'll just speak for me. I'm not afraid of anything in this world. There's nothing you Tie can throw at me that I haven't already heard. I'm just trying to find a decent melody, a song that I can sing in my own company.
I'm drawing out. I have no idea what that is.
You've got to get yourself too, Oh you do. Stuck in a moment. Stuck in a moment and now you can't get out of it? Is how that lyric kept going. Because you two hit a wall around two thousand and two thousand and one, Somewhere in there beautiful day was fine.
But.
I am very excited for the show if you can make it through it physically, because I know you're still on the mend, but you are. You're dedicating yourself to the cause because I gave you a very specific theme I gave listeners and people who follow us on Twitter are very specific theme about teams stuck in their own moment, however long it's been, and they can't get out of it. And I sent you a link to the Librea tar Pits, which I'm positive you've never heard of.
I'm glad you pronounced Librea because I was not sure how to pronounce that second worry.
Really well, that's a major street in Los Angeles. I don't expect I'm like, it's dumb for me to expect anything from anybody, but I feel as if Librea is a pretty well known Lobrea Bakery is a big national thing.
Still drawing a blank. Still drawing a blank. But I'm glad that you said the word first before I went all globe Tomato on it.
I believe Lauren Conrad Heidi Montag lived at the Park Librea apartments. Okay, we're really going to search your memory banks okay.
Well that's all.
Welcome back, Welcome one, Welcome all. We're going to get into the hill. Yeah, we're going to get into the Librea tar pits. And it's connection to this year college football podcast in this specific episode. I am Ty, he is Dan. We are the Solid Verbal. We are broadcasting Slash podcasting year round. Go to our website Solid verbal dot com for all the intel on how you can subscribe. We're also out there on social media on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,
on YouTube at YouTube dot com. Slash The Solid Verbal also doing some stuff on Twitch. Did you play the games yet? Are you going to be doing it?
I'm stupid and I haven't done it yet. Now I have tell me which if people want to suggest to I don't know, Instagram, Twitter, Solidverbletgmail dot com, which sne S games people want me to stream, I'll just do it. I'll just go on Twitch and stream myself playing SNAs games poorly.
I did notice on there that there are like two million people who frequent the Mario Kart for Oh, Nintendo switch, so may I play some Mario Kart?
I do? Have? You have to hook up your switch or N sixty four you have to do something.
Yeah, I could hook that. I could hook up the switch pretty easily. Oh god, problem, good do it?
So maybe they all call it Mario or what's the Mario?
I know, I know apparently most normal people refer to him as a different moniker, but he's always Mario to me. And I've still got some NCAA fourteen that I need to play. I have to finish out our season. But alas, you can go to the Twitch as well, Twitch dot tv, slash Solid Verbal. We're doing some stuff out there as well. For Ballers dot Com is a Patreon. Just because season's over does not mean we don't have bonus content planned
on the Patreon. Still have folks sign it up for it, and we do have a Winter Wonders winner, which we will announce on our Thursday Eh yeah show, so stay tuned for that. We'll talk a little bit more in detail. But but but but we have a show before us tonight where you have found a tie into the Librea tar pits, Dan, I.
Have, Well, first of all, do you want it any news? Is there anything you want to stress your voice out?
I'm not going to yell it, but breaking news, it's a breaking news. Sound somebody asked us, is that from Always Sonny in Philadelphia. I'll say, if it is, it's not intentional because that's an old sound from Apple Garage Band that I just pulled and decided it would be fun to use here.
I think Always Sonny specifically also utilizes a number of either free or copyright loose sounds and songs they're from like generic sound libraries. That's a lot of not copyrighted music, not expensive music. Yeah, I mean, Tennessee still doesn't have a coach, but it looks like the steam might be behind Tony Elliott, offensive coordinator at Clemson. Basically at Clemson life or played there and certainly has been a coach there for I think a decade about so we'll see
on Tennessee. But they did hire an ad and Danny White, who seems well regarded, has made some good both football and basketball hires going back to his time at Buffalo, but they pulled him away from UCF. So guys like Lance Leipold's you know Tony Elliott. Certainly PJ. Fleck now is a name that has come up a bit. Ol Ryan, you know, the new offensive coordinator at Alabama, but certainly with his own head coaching experience both in the NFL
and in college, two different levels of success. But there are some bigger names now associated Jamie Chadwell from Coastal Carolina with his background, so something to pay attention to. And it seems like and this will eventually transition us to the meat of today's episode. It seems like the organizational structure and personalities have matured a bit at Tennessee. Okay, what is that hire of Danny?
What does what does that mean?
That means that it's been a pretty chaotic administration. And if you listen to fans and writers making illusions, guys like Jimmy Haslam have wielded a ton of power, you know, a major booster. He owns who the Browns?
Yes? Is that who he owns?
And just it's been chaotic in terms of a power struggle. And you know, hiring Philip Fulmer, who had a little bit of athletic department type experience going in, but it seemed like a he's a Tennessee guy, he understands this place and made a pretty bad hire in Jeremy Pruitt. It's looking like more and more if some of the allegations behind the scenes are true, So that doesn't reflect poorly on how that program and how the athletic department has been running.
I mean, I think the.
Basketball team has been pretty good, but I don't pretend to know too much about the details of Tennessee basketball. But all the same, it seems like when schools get away from hiring alumni because they're alumni and because they get it in insert school here, that's when you see some growth. When you hire people experience with a lot of important successful experience at important jobs that demand it.
So I'm hopeful for that for Tennessee because it's been a while since they've had that sort of leadership, it seems from the outside. I don't know if you have any Tennessee thoughts about who they should hire or any specifics about it, but that's where they stand now.
No. I saw some of my Penn State friends. We're tracking a private jet from I believe State College to Knoxville.
So, okay, interesting given James frankis state for James Franklin, Yeah.
Given his ties to the state of Tennessee. Maybe that's I don't know. You know, this is when rumors run crazy. I've not heard anything to that point, but who knows it is a little bit late in the cycle here. That's when strange things do happen. So book, I hope they get their guy. We've we've been wanting Tennessee to kind of come into its own now for probably as far back as I can remember. At this point, it's been a while since I felt like Tennessee was a
true contender. And it's a great school, it's a great stadium. It's always more interesting when Tennessee is interesting. So I wish them well. I don't know that's true.
I hope for just there's a lot of enthusiasm to say, to be kind with a word, around Tennessee football, and so I hope Tennessee can become successful. I don't remember the last time I thought man college football is certainly better right now because Tennessee is awesome.
Been a long time. No, it's been a long time, but fair point. I just think that so long the narrative has been about the SEC West being the true Titan of the SEC. And now we see Georgia rising up, we see Florida rising up. It'd be nice to have some other schools on the Eastern at.
Least three times.
I mean, I'm trying to prove I know here, Dan, I mean, you just sort of have to bring your own citrus ball to the party if you're talking about Tennessee. Get point though, I want to I understand, I want to see the East rise up. Okay, in some respect, we could go a lot of weird places with that statement. Larry Scott, by the way, that's a that's a big deal.
A burying the damn lead man.
Yeah continue, sorry, oh man, Well didn't they announced this on inauguration Day?
I think they did the all time timing for a good old news dump. But look, Larry Scott was the embattled leader of the PAC twelve. What CEO group is that, what it's called whatever? He was in charge of the PAC twelve as a whole. We have probably done over the course of his tenure at least half a dozen at least half a dozen shows. I was talking about what's wrong with the PAC twelve and what Larry Scott in particular had done wrong in his tenure the top
PAC twelve. So it's not a total surprise that they would decide that they want to go a different direction, but it did catch a lot of folks off guard. And now this opens up the door for some new leadership, some new ideas to hopefully bring this conference into a spot where it gets more national prominence, it gets more fill in the blank, Dan, What does the PAC twelve need more of and who can help them get more of it?
Fans?
The PAC twelve needs more alumni of its schools to be rabid fans, both in seats at the stadium and watching on TV and donating money. I don't know if that's a realistic thing. Larry Scott certainly can't control that.
Is that that was gonna be? My question? Is that a realistic thing? Out west? Now?
The best case scenario for the PAC twelve is something that the commissioner, alongside employees around him and whoever is involved in negotiating a TV deal, puts the conference in the best possible pr and broadcast positions so that if Oregon,
USC Washington, I suppose ASU, and that's probably it. In terms of programs that have the ability to rise up and do fun, interesting things that people in Chicago, Nashville, Birmingham, Miami, Charlotte, Philadelphia are going to care about watching no matter the
time zone, then they can succeed. They can absolutely succeed, but it's a matter of making smart decisions financially on a competitive level for the conference that if and when those programs do something fun, because we've seen those programs to whatever extent, do fun, interesting things or successful things, but the conference places their games at eleven pm Eastern for a big game kickoff, or puts USC in a position where they're playing on a Friday night after a
Saturday road game and don't make the playoff essentially because of it. With Sam Darnold, I think that was twenty seventeen, I want to say, when they ended up playing Penn State in the Rose Bowl. Little things like that, getting things right from a pr perspective, because they're never going to like generate thousands and thousands of Arizona donors and thousands of thousands of Colorado donors and people in all of those cities I named wanting to watch Cal football.
It's fine.
They have to be realistic about where they stand right now and just hope to put those teams that will pop up and do fun, interesting things in the best possible position for people to care about them financially. Larry Scott putting the conference and you know, the TV deal with the PAC twelve network putting the conference in San Francisco.
I think they're playing like eight million dollars in annual rent or something wild that needs to be improved, that needs to be altered, and that is definitely on that specific vision. So, I mean, you don't see mid level sandwich companies basing themselves and super like as Quizno's based in the middle of Manhattan somehow, I don't think so. So I think there just needs to be a reevaluation of strategy and that they're going to need to do something TV wise and scheduling wise.
But there's a there's a.
Ceiling right now and for the foreseeable future with the PAC twelve just because it's not by and large when you compare it to the Midwest and the SEC. And I talked about this with Andy Staples on his podcast last night.
It's not by and.
Large a place where culturally it matches up with the Midwest and South. So you have to do the best with what you have.
Yeah, Yeah, And that's a challenge, right, That's just a challenge. The time zone thing has long been a huge problem and there's no easy way to solve that. There just isn't an easy way to solve it in a way that works for both the East and the West coast.
So yeah, it worked for Shanghai with their streaming of the PAC twelve.
But otherwise, oh man, well more to come on this one. I thought you were gonna go there first. I'm a little disappointed you didn't. But Tennessee still coached, and yeah, Larry Scott's no longer a top the PAC twelve. All right, solberbogmail dot Com as always, is the email right in let us know your thoughts on this and any and all college football matters. We continue to get a number of questioned comments, and people like sarkstaff.
By the way, what he's putting together at Texas not that whisky. Yeah, the Washington decordinator as his new defensive coordinator brought some Alabama assistants, Jeff Chote, the Montana state head coaches is new. I like the linebackers, I like them special teams. Yeah, I mean it seems like an impressive group of people that Sark is putting in position to win, hoping for the best for them too.
We have him by we I mean mostly you telling me. We've recently gone on a little bit of a binge watch of Steve sarkishan net coaching clinics on YouTube.
That's a good watch. I liked it.
It's not a bad watch. Did you watch it? I did.
Yeah.
The guy knows what he's doing. That's why he's the coach Texas, why he's coached offense at a number of places now. But good watch. I warned something, Dan.
Yeah, it was from a clinic I think a couple of years ago, a year ago, and I believe it was a year ago, and man, it's been a long year. Yeah, it's on YouTube if you look up some sort of Sark coaching clinic. I don't think offensive acumen has ever been the problem with Sark, but good to see him in that position because he's you know, he wasn't able to really talk that much at Alabama. So it's some nice insight into the Sark offense during that coaching clinic.
This transitions nicely because we've talked about the Tennessee, we've talked about USC's conference, and we've talked about Texas. I asked people on Twitter choose one of the teams below and explain why they're struggling to return to Glory, usc Tennessee, Miami, Nebraska, Texas. We got a lot of good answers. We got a lot of good answers that basically said their.
Fans are unrealistic. It's not nineteen ninety three anymore.
And the snarky side of me, flank of me appreciated that, But that wasn't all that helpful. So I want to talk about those five schools with you and being stuck in a moment that you can't get out of, being stuck in the Librea tarpits, a gurgling mass of oil and tar emitting methane that got wooly mammoths and predators stuck, and now there are all sorts of fossils in the
middle of Los Angeles. I want to talk about those five schools specifically and the broader lessons that can or can't be learned from their last I don't know, ten years, thirty years, It depends on the school.
First, Can we talk about the LaBrea tar pits a little bit more? Because I didn't know this was a real thing. Yeah, it definitely has the feel of like the Sarlac in Star Wars or whatever it was called.
The pit I've been on many a field trip. By the way, in my day, is.
This like a thing where you're from? Is it close to you?
Yeah?
Yeah, it's in the middle of Hollywood, West Hollywood. It's probably i don't know, forty five minutes something like that.
Not terrible.
Is it enjoyable? Does it stink because of the methane? Like? What's that experience? Like?
Doesn't crack my top twenty five of best places I've smelled?
Okay, right, Yeah, it's kind of cool.
I mean, you get to see a bunch of fossils and there's some history there, and it was generally paired with something else in the area field trip wise, like you'd get a really good lunch out of it somewhere around there, something like that. But yeah, it was among the things you can go on a field trip to see. There's all sorts of museums and science centers in LA that we'd go on field trips to. But yeah, Labret Tarpits was for sure in the roadation.
We need to do an entire separate episode about field trips from back in the day.
I would love to. We have a bunch of off topic shows coming up in the off season for our Patreon for ballers.
I think field trips would be a great discussion point. But alas we're talking about teams that just wandered into the Lebretar pits or whatever it is closest to them, why don't we start with USC? Since okay, since USA is there, yeah, not all that far from there. What kind of responses did we get to this?
It was a lot of administration stuff. It was a lot of hiring Pat Hayden, Mike Garrett, bringing in Sark and Lane Kiffin to get the band back together. Certainly, what the NCAA did to USC and didn't retract from USC when it became clear that in retrospect their case was pretty awful. Considering the punishments levied at the Trojans, that hasn't really looked all that rosy looking back on
the nc DOUBLEA. So, you know, dealing with the scholarship issues that they've had to deal with, but then it's making mistakes and it certainly seems like Clay Helton is
not going to hit the expected ceiling. But then on a bigger level, on a higher level, what is the commitment like at the top for USC from the you know, whatever it is, President Chancellor regents whatever, like, is there an actual commitment to bringing USC to a national platform or is it just hoping it happens despite not devoting resources.
And by resources I mean support staff, facilities, and they've upgraded facilities and stuff like that recently, but still there is a sort of backslappy way to how things work at Heritage Hall. I don't think has been fully fumigated out of that program. And so now they're just sticking with Clay Helton because he has a huge buyout and is stable at head coach after the Sark and Lane Kiff and eas and it seems like right now they've just set a ceiling for themselves because of these programs.
Their path back to at least consistent New Year six games, if not the playoff, seems the cleanest hypothetically to me. Now, Texas isn't a better place right now than USC to me, But in terms of pathway, especially with the quarterback they're
bringing back, USC should get there quicker. But USC also, I mean, you look at the different elements that helped Pete Carroll get USC to the national stage, and it's luck, it's health, luck, it's hiring Pete Carroll, Luck, it's that the Pac Ten wasn't necessarily consistent at the top during their stretch run between Washington being very very down, Oregon being sort of inconsistent after the Joey Harrington years. You know,
it's dirt cutter. There's not a lot of killers in the Pac ten at this time, like two thousand and two to two thousand and eight essentially, so a lot, And that's true of a lot of teams looking back at their glory days. But for USC specifically, it doesn't seem like it'll take a lot to unmuck themselves beyond starting over hiring super qualified people at the top, which it seems like they've done at Athletic director with Mike Boone.
We'll see what happens if it remains a football higher the name excellent name, But I think it's rather a question of self scouting, self awareness and identity, like does USC want to put into its program what Ohio State does, what Oklahoma does, what Alabama does, what Florida does, what Michigan does schools like that, and even Michigan's been down, but the commitment doesn't seem like it's fully there, whereas with some of these other schools, like the commitments there
with Tennessee, it's there with Texas.
So I don't know.
It's USC wanting to be something without working to get there. Fully, that's what it seems.
It does have a feel of that. I saw. We got one response here from a gentleman talking about talent in southern California, and I want to unpack this a little bit because.
It's another one of those what's his name? I think I saw this tweet and it was maybe one of the stupidest things I've seen, but continue, Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to call the guy out because he was just responding to our stuff. But his point was there's not much talent in California. Everyone wants to believe California is a great high school football state because of its population, but really it's worse than Florida, Texas, Georgia, La.
Okay, so did you see my response to him. I did not see a response to it, but it's okay. I did not see it, but my initial response is that that's way off base.
Okay.
The current number of active NFL players by state is as follows. Yeah, Florida two eighty nine California to fifty seven Texas, two thirty nine, Georgia one fifty eight, Ohio ninety eight. So if my math is correct, it's almost three times higher than number five.
It feels feels like this is a little bit all base, Okay.
Enough to put together a decent roster right now.
I am not subscribing to that logic, but okay, I am firmly in the camp of for whatever reason, USC has had a hard time getting the most out of that talent. And when it shows up on campus, a lot of the guys are highly regarded. They obviously had banner careers as high school athletes, but it just seems like, for whatever reason, over the last better part of a decade now, USC has had a hard time getting those guys to their absolute ceiling.
Yes and no, they've put together some really impressive seasons. I went back, like the twenty fourteen season, was Codyler going like thirty seven touchdowns five picks. I think they went nine to three, But they had that dut against Boston College. I look back, Tyler Murphy, by the way, won that game at quarterback for BC five of fourteen. Yeah, for like ninety one yards. He ran for a ton. But it's just there's that letdown, and so it's our
old favorite Seinfeld moment. It's not about the taking the reservation, it's about the keeping of the reservation. It's not always just about the acquisition of talent. It's about the development and making that talent care every week. And so that has been the issue, along with the actual numbers of talent. If you're only suiting up sixty five scholarship guys because of terrible you know, twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, whatever, but have you, it's it's a bigger challenge. But yes, you
are right. It's it's the coaching staff thing. It's the dedication to growing a program thing. It's not just the acquisition of four star guys, five star guys, but guys that fit in your locker room, Guys that will.
Contribute to a winning culture. That kind of thing. And when you're a.
School like you and you have your proverbial pick of talent in southern California, maybe it's also good to go into Nevada. Maybe it's also good to go into Arizona. Maybe it's good to go into Texas and get the Texas Tesla. Like Ronald Jones, Like you don't necessarily say we can just build a team based on people within fifty miles of the school. It's how do we build a team that adheres to this specific vision. We need
players that meet this specific criteria. And that's where I think USC has fallen off, or had fallen off on their way to inconsistent results.
You know where you don't go though for USC. If you don't go in the little brea tar pits Dan, you don't go.
Should we get like a gurgling tar bubbly sound to put in at it in post okay, okay, at it and post thank you? It is literally natural asphalt. Yeah, it is natural. It's an end natural asphalt reserve. And I think the broader point with USC is what the broader point is, Expectations are tricky, and you can't just as a fan base or as a school, expect certain
things because of advantages. If you're not following through in March, April, May, June on what it takes to reach whatever the high ceiling of college football is right now, that's where USC. That's what I think Al's USC. That's the lesson there, because you're right, you look, I mean that twenty fourteen team specifically, it's a great example. I think they went nine to three before their Bowl game. You're talking Juju Smith on one side, Nelson Aguilar on the other, Antwine Woods,
and Leonard Williams upfront on defense. Legit NFL players like longer NFL careers, successful NFL careers across this roster, and just I know this is when things went sort of hay wire for Sark. But man, it just seems like the story of USC so much potent every year, and just what are they doing behind the scenes to fortified depth and making sure they're recruiting the right guys, hiring the right guys Because I think they hired Sark over
Chris Peterson. That's a nice little what if. I don't know, it's it's sort of the getting rid of the fumigating the Hubris thing. I think it is where USC has struggled.
Do you can you want to take a guess at the oldest material that was recovered from the little brea tar pits, like by year or the actual substance per radiometric dating of preserved wooden bones.
Preserved wooden bones over a million years old?
No, thirty eight thousand, millions thousands, Okay, one a million where are we going?
What I just screw out a number. Let's talk about Texas the school. That's how closely associated. Let's move from west to east. I guess Texas. I'm now looking at a map Nebraska versus Texas has compared to USC.
Well, let's just do Texas anyway.
Let's do Texas. Okay, Texas. So I feel like this has changed over the course of time. What was the rub on mac Brown when he left? The rub was sort of that what the game had passed him by a little bit, that he wasn't turning talent into its optimal version right that. Of course, there was the famous story of recruiting Johnny Manziel to play a safety. So there were a couple of things going on at the end of Max's tenure when they eventually ran him out
of town lightly to my eyes, slightly more west than Lincoln. Oh, it's pretty close. Continue so Texas to me, outside of the whole mac thing which went south, he had a great run, won a title. Of course, they have been in limbo ever since, and it feels like Texas, maybe even more so than USC, has been just a dearth of leadership, Like who has that unifying vision that the entire fan base is going to get behind and can take the next step with that program. I just don't.
I mean, it's easy now after the fact, after a couple coaches that have gone the way of the DODO, like, it feels easy to say it now. I'm trying to think how I felt in the moment about some of these hires that they brought in. It just feels like all of them went south really quick. I remember the Charlie Strong hire, and that was going to be a transformational move, and it just seems like that came off the swivel very quickly. Tom Herman another example of that,
Tom Herman. Tom Herman was on the show. We were asking him about his aptitude and being part of the MENSA Club. Like all these guys that were supposedly going to get the most out of that situation never did. And I don't think it's because any of them were bad coaches. I just think it's there was there's always been friction with respect to the leadership. Counterpoint a Charlie Strong Texas squad lost to Kansas counterpoint counterpoint, Yeah, is that fair to say? Yeah, but I think it goes
a little bit deeper. Well, first of all, Mac Brown. If we're talking about the heights of mac Brown and returning to the glory days, this is what Mac Brown in Texas did between two thousand and one and two thousand and nine in terms of wins including this is including bowls. So take that with whatever size grain of salt. Eleven eleven, ten, eleven, thirteen, ten, ten, twelve, thirteen, not a single single digit win between two thousand and twenty ten. It's pretty good, pretty good, really good.
Two national championship appearances.
Of course, Colt McCoy gets hurt two thousand and nine, but the two thousand and five season just incredible. So what is interesting to me, especially when you look at some of these other schools, is Texas. I think the Mac Brown thing is not that the game passed him by, that you just can't whiff on quarterbacks and you just
can't get lazy recruiting. And that's the sort of thing where just because you can get essentially for whatever stretch, most of the five stars in the state of Texas that you want for a stretch doesn't mean building a program without being more discerning or seeing how some players start their senior year and so forth and so forth isn't worthwhile, And so we saw a lot of mac Brown wrapping up his recruiting classes on junior Day, and
I guess that's okay if it works out. Guys change, guys, priorities change, guys get hurt, things change, and so it just seemed that the end, mac Brown wasn't attacking every element of running a program the size of Texas like perhaps he wants. I think that's reasonable to say. And then you couple that with every egg in the Garrett Gilbert basket, right, and that doesn't work out, and then
it's the David ash injury issues. He has a somewhat promising twenty twelve case McCoy doesn't fully work out, and that's into you know, you're getting into Charlie Strong and Tyrone Swoops and Jerrod Hurt, Like you can't whiff on quarterback at Texas. There are too many amazing options to choose from that it is mandatory that you at least find yourself a B plus quarterback, which is what I
think Sam Ellinger is. But that brings me to sort of access of mediocrity, and that goes coaching staff quarterback whatever. But there is also that element of I am going to tie my success to this B B plus quarterback with a pretty well defined ceiling and hope that it doesn't come back to bite me. Spoiler it always does.
Yeah right, it's Sam Ellinger, it's Tommy arms Strong, it's ja Corey Harris, it's you know, all these types where you're saying, and I B plus might be generous in some of those seasons where you're saying, I am not going to be I'm going to be too sentimental and I'm not.
Going to be.
Win at all costs and do what's actually best for the program, which is search out the best possible answer at quarterback every year and open the competition. Unless my quarterback is a legit star. My quarterback is not a legit star at Texas, competition is open. I think you have to have that mentality at places that big.
Yeah, the quarterback thing's been concerning, and I also feel like, you know, so I point to leadership Tyler Bray. Sorry, thank you, don't do that ever again. Just yell that interrupt you. Which while we're prey Toiler Bray, but the leadership thing is is one angle. The cohesive, unifying vision is obviously a symptom of that, but like it's just never been both sides of the football, or even two sides of the same side of the football working in Unison.
It's been a lot of disparate parts kind of going opposite directions and never felt like they've been rowing in the same direction since that nice run that they had at the end of I guess the Oughts, right, It's.
Just yeah, and there were moments in twenty eighteen, Tom Herman had a really nice They've had moments.
They've had moments to look under Herman, they were good in big games. They were good in big games, they were they were good in bowl games, right, But as forgetting them to kind of that next level just hasn't happened.
So what's keeping them stuck throughout We're now talking about three different coaches. What's keeping them stuck?
Well, I think what Gotham stuck was leadership. I think what's keeping them stuck is so you're.
Talking ad are you talking Boosters head coach? I think the whole school leadership. I think the whole lot. Yeah, I think the whole lot.
I think it's they've not been able to put together a formula where the coach does this, the ad does that, boosters have their role here, likes it just feels like a big old mishmash. And sure it's hard at a school like Texas, right, that's really tough. So I think that's keeping them stuck. Hopefully they can kind of navigate
their way out of that now. But the talent thing, to your point of you can't have a B plus quarterback or you need to have at least a B plus quarterback, they haven't been able to really develop talent elsewhere, right, And so just that inconsistency to me, I don't know.
There's also well there's also the element of when you're talking about leadership and you're talking about voices behind the scenes, is the coach hiring a staff that he fully believes in or is there somebody saying this is the guy, or don't hire this guy. We don't like this guy a defensive coordinator, you can't hire him. Like, how much
is the coach empowered? And then what is the coach like in terms of force of personality to keep those voices at bay, because that leaks into everything that becomes a distraction when you have all sorts of cooks in the kitchen saying, that's a little much tarragon in that still, I don't know that lunch taragon. Why don't we take out some tarragon? Why don't we take out half of
that rescue like when you start. And that's maybe the singular hidden Nick Saban talent, because it almost seems like it's the exception to the rule at a lot of these enormous places to keep that train rolling as long as possible, what Nick Saban has done, given how many voices are in that background at Alabama, that that might be the singular talent. And it's his winning that obviously does it. But he has full daily control and makes correct decisions every day, because as soon as he doesn't,
that's when the voice get a little bit louder. Was and Tom Herman that that force of personality maybe at times, but not overall. It seems doesn't seem like it was for Charlie Strong. Seems like mac Brown had a really good stretch of being but he got into that sort of senate oriol older not perhaps being as hungry near the end of that. And I don't know if that's the quarterback evaluation thing. And he made changes, he found a you know, a young hungry Manny Diaz, I think
from Mississippi State, like he identified some good coaches. Brian Harson was brought in, I think as his offensive coordinator there, and it just.
It didn't work.
It didn't work because you got to find a quarterback and you can't stay that well. You can't screw up quarterback in Texas well. So that's what I think big picture it really And I don't know if Sark is that for us a person.
I don't know.
I don't know if the staff, I don't know Sark is that either. But the staff, the staff's interesting, you know. I I remember a few hires ago there was one Division one head coach who was in the mix and wanted the job, but ultimately turned it down because he didn't have control over his staff. I don't know if that would have been a good hire, but I know, at least in one instance, that used to be the case.
Doesn't like it's quite the case now with Sark. You know, he's really thinking outside the box, not necessarily going for the sexiest name, but trying to get guys in there that he thinks are going to be helpful. We'll see, we'll see if it changes. You want to do Nebraska now. Sure.
By the way, Mike Stoops was apparently offered a job on that Texas staff and that was rescinded by Sark because of like internal backlash. Yeah, so it's that might be test number one. We'll see, And that's when I think Jeff Choke got the job. Let's do Nebraska. Nebraska's fascinating.
So Nebraska left the Big Twelve. Nebraska was in the Big Twelve forever mm hmm, and decided to go to the Big Ten, which I still thinks a good move financially. We've got a lot of commentary here that culturally it wasn't the best move for Nebraska, but we can debate the merits of that here in time. Look, the college football world has grown in many different directions since Nebraska was a force, right, It's it's just a different ballgame now. And I feel like recruiting is always going to be
a challenge to a place like Nebraska. You've got to have a system, like a Tom O'Brien had a system and be very good at it.
I know you meant Tom Osborne, but I love that you said to Tom O'Brien.
Different guy tom Osborne. You know who I meant, Nobody in the great state of Nebraska. I apologize, It's okay tom Osborne, right, yeah, But he was very good at running his system. Folks knew what it was. It had an identity, he could recruit to it, and eventually he hit critical mass with it or it just kind of fed into itself. It was very dominant for all those years. They've lost that identity. Right over the years, they've lost that identity. I don't know if that old Osborne identity
would even work nowadays. Probably not. But I just kind of don't know what Nebraska is. I thought we knew what it was going to be when Scott Frost got there, that it was going to be this high flying offense that was going to be a ton of fun to watch. And I still think he's a good coach, But even he's had difficulty building out that system in the same way that we saw it down at like a UCF
hasn't materialized. So I think we got to start with the recruiting question of are they able to attract the talent even to Lincoln, Nebraska that they could down in Orlando, Dan despite the fact that it's like two separate planes of college football. I think that's a fair question to ask. Scott Frost was a no brainer. Higher the sentimentality was there, which can become an issue like we sort of talked
about with USC. I agree to a certain extent. So Nebraska and success was tied to a lot of different things, right. Their strength and conditioning program was way ahead of its time. People snicker while listening and say, well, maybe a little too ahead of its time in terms of what some players, all players whatever put into their bodies. All conjecture, but
that's a line of thinking. But certainly, yes, the strength and conditioning as well ahead they had the walk on program, They had all sorts of things to build up depth. That was the play.
Certainly, it was an extremely winnable conference at its height, because I mean the modern height, because I think Oklahoma was pretty down in the mid nineties if you look back Gary Gibbs and the one year of the disastrous year of Howard Schnellenberger. So there were advantageous things, just like when Texas was at its height, if you look at the Big twelve North and who they had to play year in and year out in a Big twelve
championship game. It's more acxis of mediocrity. So I'll due respect to some of those Northern teams, but still look at the records. It wasn't amazing. A lot of people like to point out the Nebraska thing of like, oh, it's not ninety five anymore. You can't just expect to be amazing. Yes, and no, Nebraska is in a really nice position.
Certainly.
Recruiting change that got more national to move to the Big ten I think was a disaster for its recruiting because you lose the Texas footprint if you're all the sudden, if you're playing Texas Tech and Baylor.
And TCU or whatever.
If there is some sort of evolved Big twelve whatever with Nebraska still in it and adding a school like TCU, there's good reason for a high level three star, low level four star, four star whatever kid to go to Nebraska because you know you're going to be playing in front of friends and family, you know, you know you're going to be playing in your home state. So there is that recruiting footprint element. And Nebraska is I mean, it's.
Just a small state.
I think it's the thirty eighth largest state in the country.
Can you name the third largest city in Nebraska. I had to look it up.
The third largest city.
Yeah, Omaha one, Lincoln two. I'd be shocked if many people that are not from Nebraska could name Bellevue, Nebraska. Is that the answer, that's the answer. Yeah, nah, no, sorry, you're right. It's just it's different. It's difficult, and I don't want this to come off as tectoring or lecturing or whatever, but Nebraska has to be very specific. And I think the specific fault of Mike Riley, who recruited pretty well, but the specific fault of Scott Frost. It
comes down to. It's that sentimentality. Four years of Tommy Armstrong four took over for her Taylor Martinez four years Okay, okay, but that is a signal. The Frank Solich thing I know people are going to point to because he was winning a bunch of games and whatever, and he went to Ohio and he's been very good at Ohio for a long time. There were high expectations. Nebraska just couldn't see the writing on the wall years in advance that
college football was evolving. And if you've got a successful coach, just hold on to him. Now, maybe there are interpersonal issues that I'm not touching on here that are part of the story. But all the same, the Nebraska thing, it's just harder to win there, but I will insist it's not impossible.
So let me as if you let me, let me ask you a question, then let me ask you kind of a related question. Yeah, Scott Frost, I agree, no brainer. Hire. I still believe in Scott.
Frost, though it was almost hired at Florida, almost hired at Florida, Scott Frost, no brainer, hire, take him home to Nebraska.
I like the move. My confidence has waned a little bit. Not going to lie, but I still think he's the right guy for the job.
Mhm.
That being said, if I were to unhire Scott Frost and in his place hire Matt Campbell, would you feel differently about the state of the program.
Uh?
Yeah.
I think Matt Campbell has proved it at a difficult place to win and Scott Frost hasn't. I don't think UCF is a difficult place to win in that conference. I because of the nearby talent. Now, there are lots of schools Miami Hurricanes near a lot of talent that cannot win on an expected level. But you seef in that specific conference with that talent, and you know, having nearby powerfy programs that guys are transferring away from, I can just land at UCF that kind of thing. It's
a great place to be. And this is our old what our iron chef versus chop thing? What can you do with weird ingredients? What can you do with the best ingredients? People aren't food? But that's my analogy.
And Nebraska is.
But I think I'm going to insist you can win at Nebraska. But the vision has to be very specific. The recruiting has to be very specific, and the assistant hire and culture has to be more specific on a level probably unmatched at any other Power five wanna be huge program.
The recruiting thing is a very interesting problem at Nebraska because you're just not buy population center. Somebody wrote in about this, and it's fair point true. You're not by population centers, which means that, given the fact you can't really ride on the old tom Osborne coattails at this point, not riding on legacy in twenty twenty one, you have to be very deliberate about where you're spending your time and your resources to go out and bring new talent in.
And now that you're removed from the Big twelve, do you lose that pipeline you might have had into the state of Texas. I don't know, but it's a very very difficult nut to crack if you're Scott Frost to go out there to bring talent in. And you know, I almost compared a little bit to like a Lubbock, Right you're kind of in the middle of nowhere.
No no, no, no, no, no, no.
No, not quite.
Come on, you're still in West Texas. Is that can be out there, but you're still in state and playing in state schools every week. That's my put a lot of the time. Yeah, that's my point.
My point is that there's a similarity there, but it's almost more difficult. So, I don't know, more difficult. It's a very interesting problem. I certainly hope that Scott Frost can put all the pieces together. But I think with all the schools that we've talked about here so far, USC Texas, Nebraska is the one that's the hardest to solve for a number of different reasons. That being said, that being said, I think the Big ten West might be the easiest side of the conference to win.
Oh, it's the easier side for sure.
So if you can get a little bit of momentum, you can build your profile up pretty quickly. But it's getting it's breaking out inertia, right that I think is the hardest car Yeah, getting out of those pits. Yeah all right.
So, by the way, two thousand and nine, two thousand and nine, the two thousand nine Nebraska defense was arguably the best defense in the country. Now we're going back now eleven twelve years. Where's Jared Crick from Tie I'd be shocked if you knew this because I had to google it eleven seconds ago. It's from Albuquerque. Where's Damakan Sioux from He's from Portland. They can build a program, they can recruit. It's Bo Polini and he had that reputation.
But if Scott Frost is going out and hiring or whoever is replacing scy Frost next year, the year after whatever, is going out and identifying assistant coaches with very specific relationships in different parts of the country, maybe the western half or the midwestern part of the country where they're just they have this reputation for unearthing high quality starting three star defensive lineman offensive linemen and turning them into four star, five star type talents once they're in college.
Nebraska can beat most teams in college football, but it's that very specific vision. It's hiring that coach with those relationships, with that ability to sell, with that ability to build a culture, which it seems like Scott Frost just isn't that guy, because that's a tough ass job.
Tough job, tough job. Look, I've enjoyed the fact that we've had actual conversations about these situations and that we're not just buzzing through it. So my proposal is, why don't we bump off what schools do we have left? We have Miami?
Who else Tennessee?
Tennessee. Maybe we'll throw another third school in, maybe like Michigan or somebody can't believe you're giving me the red light, and we'll talk about that on Thursday as part two. Okay, I like that we have to find an international tar pit,
an international tar pit. Sure, yeah, but I want to give ourselves a chance here to you know, expound on some of these points and get some more commentary from the overballlerhood because I'm looking through we got a lot of great answers, and the show's already running a little bit long in the tooth, so we'll have that conversation on Thursday. If you're cool with that. I'm cool with that, all right, Dan. Where can people find us?
What your only fans? Your secret only fans is as follows. They can find us solid reble dot com, follow us, Instagram.
Twitter, blah blah, bah blah.
Everybody that's listening to the show still at this point either knows where they can find us or is an above average Who's an above average quarterback? Who is the most above average quarterback currently playing in college football?
Tie?
That's what I'm going to compare their googling skills too. And if you'd like to support the show, because this is what we do, this is your support is extremely meaningful. Patreon is an option for you forballers dot com to learn more who is the most above average? Who is the quintessential current above average quarterback in college football? Or from twenty thirteen your choice or from twenty thirteen or from twenty thirteen.
Man, I need to think more about that. I don't know, not off the top.
Of you want to say, Sean Manyon.
Sewn Many was very Shawn Many was a pro prospect.
Wasn't he? Hey?
He was on some rosters. Quinn essential above average quarterback. James Franklin missoo as a senior.
I thought he was.
Full on gooding about the okay casual address. Right, we want to talk about Chase Reddigg.
I can't even remember what I had for Connor Shaw thirteen. Connor Shaw was Connor Saw not just above average, He's probably he might be the answer, though.
Kevin Hogan.
Kevin Hogan was he was a clustant guy.
Shane cardon ECU.
Wow, you're really digging these out, aren't you.
Of course?
I mean I have a list here. I'm not going to Nathan Shieldhouse. Do we have Nathan Shielhouse level googlers in our midst?
I say, yes?
What about Max Brown?
Oh, I mean he started a game.
I think for you, I think he was, but then he went to I really like the media work he's done. But yeah, above average college quarterback, I'm not sure. Brat Hunley J.
W Walsh, we had him on our show. I think back in the day.
Yeah, I'd say he's quintessential above average too. I think he led the year led a season in efficiency rating, though Devin.
Gardner oh Man, Devin Gardner.
Shout out Hankster. I think that's where it's from. Okay, that's all I.
Have for that guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein, for myself, Tie hilden Brand. We will talk to you all on Thursday. In the meantime, stay safe, stay healthy, day solid.
Can't wait for part two. Please