Q&A: Part 1 - Are Games Too Long? More Conference Realignment? Optimal SEC Schedule Format? - College Football Podcast for 2/21

ahead of the draft. Spring practice isn't really a thing yet because it's what mid to late February as we record this, The National Championship has done, recruiting is done. That there seems like there's not a lot to talk about. But something that everybody can agree on is things are looking sad for the PAC twelve, even worse than what we thought they would be, and that makes me sad, Ty. So I'm trying to stay positive with my outlook here

this morning. We've got a lot of good quality college football questions, but I wish there was something more positive that we could hang our hats on. In terms of news.

as we can. If we have to, we'll break it off into two shows, but we won't put the cart before the horse here. We'll see how we do. Don't forget to hit subscribe or follow whatever your podcasting app of choice allows you to do. Dan and I will be with you all throughout the long cold months of the offseason at a minimum twice a week. Of course, you can get bonus content if you're going out to Verballers dot com. Last, but certainly not least, we got

a newsletter, quick Slants dot Sliverble dot com. I'm putting that out every Thursday if you were ever so inclined. If you want just like a quick wrap up with a little bit of personality, not too much, I don't want to scare people away, but a little bit of personality, a little bit of college football news every Thursday afternoon. Dan, that's what we're doing, all right.

Number two, no untimed downs at the end of first or third quarters.

is a long time. Is as of September, that number probably came down a little bits.

of two, as a college football full time college football podcaster? Yeah, obviously as a college football fan? Or games too long?

of the TV broadcast. Like with our exact rules, if there were an untelevised game for whatever reason, if this were nineteen ninety eight and it was a pay per view Oklahoma Kansas State game or something, my guess is we'd be talking about a football game that's closer to two hours and twenty six minutes rather than three hours

and thirty two minutes because of commercials. The issue with football is that it's an incredibly a rhythmic sport, especially in person, right where the game's happening, and then oh, there's the TV ref with the Neon orange you know, headset and armband sleeve whatever. Who is telling people Nobody

on the field until I say it's okay. It's incredibly a rhythmic, which does not make for a fun experience in person or on TV when you get the touchdown commercial, kickoff commercial, and then it's the beginning of a new drive that's you know, that has that CBS feel to it. When it would be that huge Alabama LSU game and it would just be commercial sandwiches all the time, it would be a buffet of commercials. And so I just

think we need to rethink. With so much money pouring into these TV deals and obviously networks needing to recoup that money via commercials, what's kind of rethink how I don't know advertisers are charged. Maybe there are fewer advertisers and it's more of a premium because oh, there's only going to be two commercials during commercial breaks instead of five or something. I don't think college football fans by and large have a problem with three and a half

hour games per se. If a majority of that is football, I think they have a problem with the oh I mana ja Applebee's on a Friday n whatever. Those awful. And I know I just conflated two different things. A song in an Apple base.

game is too long. It's that not everybody is like us and consumes the sport the way that we do, which is ten, twelve, fourteen hours each Saturday. It's I'm an Arkansas fan. I want to watch the Arkansas game, and I want to watch USC Oregon or Ohio State Michigan, and they're not sitting there for twelve fourteen hours. And so people try to plan their days around the games

they care about most. And if they're saying, Okay, this game starts at you know, three point thirty Eastern, dinner should be cool, and then all of a sudden it goes to overtime and it's eight pm or something, it's not great. I don't think Again, I think people like, or love, or are obsessed with watching football, they're just not obsessed with Applebee's commercials and the place that those things have in our life.

his tweet and his article no mention of replay. No mention of I mean, replay for sure has played a huge role in lengthening these games. And for as much as I'm a supporter of replay, when they have to keep going back to look at a play and then another play, it seems like it happened more often than not this past season, where you had like consecutive plays being reviewed. That tends to be a little bit much.

So I don't know if there is some way we can automate the whole replay to a greater degree to maybe knock a little bit of time off of that. One of the other things that Ross called out is that eventually they'd like to get to a system where there's a challenge type system like they've got in the NFL, where maybe not everything is automatically replayed, but coaches can challenge and you know, we're familiar with that from the NFL. Maybe that is the next iteration of replay to try

and shorten things. But look, I'm in favor of this.

People are busy. People are busy the weekends. For the overwhelming majority of the football loving population, it's a time when you should be able to kick back and relax and you don't have to work, or if you do have to work, maybe there's a way that you can follow the game on your phone and like get enjoyment from the game, Like it's supposed to be something that we enjoy, and when it starts feeling like it is taking too long, when people stop losing or when people

start losing interest in it, that to me sort of defeats the purpose. So to your point, Yeah, if it's a TV product, if I think the veils are off here, and we all know that college football is being run by the TV networks, then let's find a way to make it as appealing as we can. One other idea that you know, I know they've they've talked to various TV executives over the years on the topic of commercials.

Let's get creative about how we do in game advertising. Sure, right does not everything needs to break away from the action. You know, we got graphics, we got the first and tent line can be sponsored by Wendy's. I don't know. I'm not a TV executive, but you get the point.

firms that are producing all of these commercials. But also if it's a sport owned by TV networks, the onus is on them to make this the best possible TV show. And so the a rhythmic nature gets people changing the channel. Like you said, it's replay, it's commercials. It's a delay

for this, a delay for that. And I think it just behooves everybody to even if it's not a demonstrably shorter game, if it's a much more rhythmic experience, I think that's the way you capture people and keep them locked into your chair.

We're not going to go into that. We would encourage everybody to listen to the ads, of course, but we know from our numbers that that's what people pay most attention to, So find some way to do that. Can you get a player to read it. Can you get somebody from the team to read Can you get Quinn Kessenick to read it on the sidelines, to do whatever ad reads you have to do. That's one way they keep people sort of engaged and and not lose interest, not have people tuning away.

You have to be forward thinking with this. You have to be three steps ahead with an issue and right now unless something and look, if it's a rules thing, it's a rules thing, but you want to say, you want to promise that you are concerned about player safety and they should have fewer plays. Great, but also the experience needs to be. I mean, the in person experience has suffered and the TV experience has suffered. So what

does that tell us? We need to go forward and move forward as a sport, not stay where we are or look backwards. Look if you want to eliminate replay. Speaking of moving backwards, I'll listen to that conversation. I know it's going to cause a whole set of like, well, this team lost by three, Well, this toe is clearly in bounds dragging through the end zone for the game winning catch that was called out of bounds or incomplete or whatever. I understand that's a whole new host of issues.

But I don't know. A rhythmic football game might be enough for me, as a jaded college football fan, to be able to make peace with that. I'd be willing to listen to the pros and cons of eliminating replay. At this point, let's go to Brad from Patreon. Yes, Dan, you're a PAC twelve guy.

from a gentleman, Jason Sheer said that at Arizona. At a Swim and Dive championship banquet in Houston yesterday, the San Diego State Athletic director told people that the Aztecs will be joining the PAC twelve. It will be announced soon. So you know this has been reported for a while, that the rumors have been there for a while. Where are you at as a PAC twelve fan? How do you feel about all this is it? Does it make sense? Is it good for the conference?

But it's a big place, bigger than Eugene, Oregon. It's bigger than Palo Alto, bigger than Palwot, I guess is part of the broader Bayry and Silicon Valley, but bigger than Pullman, Washington. And so I look at San Diego State and like, okay, this is an interesting at least, right They've had big basketball success, which is not the most there's not the sport we're talking about here, but as it's a huge, huge campus, I think a ton

of kids. Enrollment's pretty huge at San Diego State. They have a history of winning football over the past decade twelve fifteen years. You know, Brady Hope part one, Rocky Long and now Brady Hope once again. Big names have come out of that program. I didn't realize the number of names associated with San Diego State, by the way, like a ton of NFL coaches, obviously Marshall Fox going back to the nineties. Like it has been a program, not a major program, but that has had an impact

on the sport at large. They have the new stadium, they don't have an NFL team anymore, they have a Major League Baseball team, they don't have an NBA team, And with UCLA and USC leaving, I assume there's still gonna be a lot of interest in LA and Southern

California and UCLA and USC football. But if there are a host of three star borderline three four star type kids who don't get that USC and UCLA offer but have the ability to stay in Southern California and go to San Diego State, whereas maybe they had otherwise thought well, I'll go to Arizona, or I'll go to cal or I'll go to Oregon State or something like that, you can build up the roster to a power five level

at San Diego State. Of course, so that to me is at least interesting if you're talking about schools to add value to the conference because of its location, because it has a winning infrastructure to a certain point, SMU hasn't had that as long in the recent past. And I also think where SMU is located, it's like in fourteenth place in terms of interest of team, right because you're talking about Okay, obviously the Cowboys and Texas football and Oklahoma football. You have a playoff team in TCU,

a small footprint in terms of an alumni base. But you have the MAVs, you have the Texas Rangers right that they'd say, a completely saturated market. And so SMU going from big G five conference to smallish medium power five conference whatever, the PAC ten to twelve ends up looking like this is as an outsider, and it's an assumption and it's a guess how much does that actually

move the needle for local fans? Are people going to swarm to SMU games because Oregon State or cal or Arizona States in town when so much of that area is consumed with fandom too much larger, large organizations, So that to me is just sort of there's somebody we can add, but not really And so big picture, I think the PAC twelve is in a lot of trouble. If if George Clavicle can find a bunch of money via ESPN and streaming services, Amazon obviously is the big name,

so be it. Good on him. But in terms of the future of the conference, if you can get that twenty five to thirty million dollars per year, it's you know, it's still dwarfed by the big ten in the SEC. But if you can get around that number and you can get Washington and Oregon at least short term on board to see what can happen with the conference. It's a big win for those two schools because their path

of the playoff is super smooth. Right that those are the two teams right now that seem to be building towards Okay, we're in a good spot to get into a twelve team playoff. We have a smooth sailing through this conference because Cal and Stanford and Washington State and Oregon State and the Arizona schools will not build up rosters in this way. Utah's right there. I left Utah out. Unfortunately,

Utah's also there with Oregon and Washington. They're just not that big name, organizational franchise type name that is coveted on a national level. But yeah, it's smooth sailing for those schools. But then what is the Big twelve going to offer? Right? How much do you want to be in on the ground floor of what essentially becomes a startup. I don't know. Man, If I'm Oregon and I'm Washington, I sign on short term and see how USC and UCLA like being on an island in the Big ten.

They're gonna make a ton of money. But you know that kind of travel is going to become a lot for those schools. And if the Big ten is looking to compete with the SEC to have that big Western division, you could see that being attractive. I'm sure Oregon and Washington would snap up a Big Ten offer in a matter of seconds if it came their way. I just it's hard to see a PAC twelve existing with San Diego State and SMU existing on anywhere near the level of the SEC and Big Ten come twenty thirty.

week ago. Now, the joint statement quote the ten PC twelve universities look forward to consummating successful media rights deals in the very near future based upon positive conversations with multiple potential mediaized partners over the past few weeks. We remain highly confident in our future growth. And I'm not going to read the rest of it. If you have to say that that doesn't leave me feeling confident. I post that at all. That to me was a little

bit weird. And I do think that they're like the article has been written. This isn't my idea. I think there's an outside chance that the whole thing could go bust depending on how these media rites negotiations go. There's a chance the whole thing could go boom that if they can't come to an agreement that's beneficial for everybody. We're staring down the barrel of more conference realignment as a result of PAC twelve or PAC ten or whatever this is, you know, inability to get a deal done.

I don't think that's likely. But I think the fact that that's on the table at all, that people have written that article at all in February of twenty twenty three, right, I don't know, that doesn't leave me feeling all that confident about where things head next. So, you know, the San Diego state move, you know California better than I do. Right, you know California much better than I do. Pulling SMU into this potentially, you know, again, it feels a little

weird to me. I don't know. It just seems like you're trying to get numbers as opposed to adding real quality, no offense to SMU people out there. So I don't know. They're in a very awkward spot now because of those two California schools deciding to go and join the Big ten.

home games to your one, fine whatever. Sign all sorts of deals and go four wide with those that they're in the same geographic footprints, so you can still travel relatively local. You play each other, and you sign deals with other conferences, and you get to that number, that magic number, while controlling your own TV deals. Right because right now Oregon and Washington kind of have George Clavicle

by the Gonads for lack of a better term. So now are they going to get more money like USC probably should have been getting from the PAC twelve under Larry Scott. It's entirely possible that they're going to sign twenty nine million dollar deals and some of the smaller PAC twelve schools are going to sign twenty three million dollar deals. So I'm still that micro conference for wid microe.

does not wrap up its deal soon. Right, the fact that it could happen in these tenuous times is enough to project what the process might look like. So that does not instill confidence in it.

Colorado has more juice because of Dion. You know Arizona. Both Arizona schools have been to conference championship games, so we know what those look like built up. So then the Big twelve becomes a lot more interesting. And then you're left with the Bay Area schools and the Pacific Northwest schools, and so then you're gonna see the sharks, right the sharks are going to be swimming in the water for that chum. And somebody's gonna pick up Oregon

and Washington. Be it the Big ten, be it you know, some sort of affiliation with other conferences, but not fully joining the other conferences. And then where does that leave Oregon State in Washington STI.

conversations again, and we're right back to square one. People were not happy about that conversation with regard to USC and UCLA. Yeah, people were. People were very affected by that, and we saw a lot of the emails in the comments. It left a lot of people feeling like college football was going to a bad, dark place, and you know, maybe it's still headed there, but we'll see where this goes. The PAC twelve definitely interesting to follow.

ourselves in the opening in the open market. And so that would have been a signal that it was waving the white flag as a sovereign nation.

shaping up to be a pretty monumental season. It's not just when I think we're gonna get what USC and UCLA over in the Big Ten, but obviously Texas and Oklahoma now joining the SEC, the start of the new playoff format, the twelve team playoff format also get the video game in twenty twenty four, So a lot happening this season after this one that's coming up here at

the end of twenty twenty three. But I think as a result of going up to what sixteen teams now in the SEC, they are going to be doing a way with the divisional model that they've had. This is the last year for it in twenty twenty three, and they're going to be changing up how they schedule games. So there are two formats that it appears the SEC is centered around, and it's been this way for a while.

The first is eight conference games with one permanent rival or nine conference games with three permanent which is the format that you most prefer.

and LSU. I just do. And I'm good. I think enough teams can figure out enough permanent rivals that makes sense, and then the rest of it is open. The rest of it is open. The rest of it's ping pong balls. So we got all the teams playing all the teams much more often than we do now, and we have some sort of ceremony, and you know, it's a big deal in whatever it is in January or February or something like that, when the scheduled are determined FIFA style

and there's already there's already conspiracy theories. Now why not put those conspiracy theories in four K on the SEC?

see more of that. And I like the fact that in doing a way with the divisional structure, it means a team like Georgia is not going to be locked into playing Vanderbilt in South Carolina and Kentucky every year. No disrespect to those schools, but I'd like to see what Georgia can do against some other opponents on a more regular basis. And this would get us to that point.

This would get us to the point of not having to wait twelve years in between matchups against some other hated rivals or competitive schools on the other side of the conference.

And if it is this new era of SEC football, you know it's it's, for lack of a better term, it's like the positionless idea of sports, right that you're just like, no, you're not locked in on a division just because that's what the title says you should be. There's nothing terribly traditional about playing your fourth most hated rival in a conference. There just isn't. And I know there's scar tissue, and I know there's battle wounds and

all that stuff between these two teams. Because of this one game four years ago, You're still gonna play them, maybe not every year, but you get those locked in three and then you spread it all around and it's novel every year. That's great. That to me is the secret sauce.

did in the transfer portal. The schedule is conducive to it. There are a lot of things that are that are that are very much in their corner. So I think it's realistic. I don't think you're an idiot. That's not the same. I'll get to ten and two, but I think it's a very high flour for Wisconsin, and I

think ten and two is there. You weren't quite as optimistic about Wisconsin, but even you, I think acknowledged that if you squint it, if you look at all the factors here going into the twenty three season for the Badgers, ten and two, it's not unrealistic, Dan, No.

of the old guy. That's right, and so this year was an especially good year for new coaches to come in and win double digit games. When you look at Washington, you look at USC, you look at TCU, Oregon, depending on if you count the bowl game, I tend not to. They were and three team that won a bowl game, but even still flirting with it in that place, so it's entirely possible. We talked about their schedule. We talked about improvement what we perceived to be improvement at quarterback,

improvement perhaps in scheme. The defense isn't where it was a couple of years ago. But once again, I think they miss Michigan and Penn State. Is that correct on their schedule?

something like that. But it's attainable. But it's also you know, seven to five is on the table because there was a reason why Wisconsin took a downturn, and some of that was talent acquisition, some of it was talent, some of it was talent not being used correctly. I just I think it's a lot to ask, but yes, I'll stand by three and a half breaks can get you to double digit wins if you set, if you gave me even money either way, I would go under if

you said nine and a half. But it's a universe exists absolutely in which they can get there.

than Stetson Bennett did. With how much Bennett moved around and was counted out and didn't have the confidence of his coaches, you'd think whoever gets the job this year will have will be more empowered at quarterback with the job immediately, but it's a lot to start over with with a new quarterback and a new coordinator. It has to be the vision of Kirby, it has to be the vision of the guys they do return on the

offensive coaching staff. So yes, i think they're going to take a step back, but I'm also excited to see what Bobo can do. He is still considered be a good offensive minus I've had some health issues. I just for the short term because of the lack of experience on this offense. I think they're going to be more

conservative than they've been these past couple years. I think there are going to be happy to get up to a medium amount, right, to get up twenty seven to ten and sit, to get up twenty one to three, twenty one to seven and sit, and just shorten that game even more than Greg Sankie already wants to shorten games. They are going to absolutely crockpot every week in the medium, short to medium term. So yeah, I think it's going

to change the complexion of the Georgia offense. I don't think they're going to succeed less in the wins and losses column. Yeah, I mean a couple things that I point out. Yea, right, Mike Bobo was there for a good long time under Mark Rix, so Georgia fans are

familiar with Mike Bobo. He was there this past season as an offensive analyst, and his role on that squad really was to do self scouting and to look at whatever Monkin was doing and figure out ways to either avoid tipping off plays or make things more efficient or make them better. So he's familiar with the offense that's been installed at Georgia, he knows the verbiage, and there's been some commentary out there that he doesn't want to

change it too much. He doesn't want to be like he's starting things from square one, because obviously what they've done has been really successful.

he had brock Bauer back in the old day. If he had Darnell Washington back in the old day, like perhaps we would see a different version of the mic Bobo offense as opposed to the one that you know, some would say was all too happy to just run at every play right, to lean too heavily on the on the ground game. So I don't think it's going to take any step back in a meaningful way as you described. I mean, they're so talented up and down that roster that the splits, the run pass splits might

look a little different. Maybe they're not as explosive as they were under Todd Munkin just because of the play calling. But by and large, I think George is just such in such a good place with their talent that as long as they remain at that really high level on the defensive side of the ball, which I think we've come to know and expect this point, the offense is always going to be in a position to score points

and succeed. So I'm not too worried about it. I hate retreads, but I think just given the fact that he's been around the program, he's a hell of a motivator. By all accounts, people like playing for him, so I think it'll be fine.

defense is. But this is now the era that it's Kirby Smart dealing with attrition as part of the success, right, the attrition of coaches in successive years. He's now lost a defensive coordinator and an offensive coordinator who wouldn't want to coach at Georgia, who wouldn't want to recruit at Georgia, who wouldn't want to be responsible for that level of success at Georgia. Right, it's a crazy enticing of coordinator jobs. But also success isn't guaranteed. Success is just not guaranteed.

We're coming off of a year in which Alabama, who's had everything in the world, not make the playoff, not even win the sec West, Right, it's entirely possible with a roster full of NFL players to not win your division, to not win your conference as one of the two three four most talented teams in the nation. And so I don't think anything's guaranteed, but this year, I think the train will keep running well next year, So twenty twenty four new teams in the conference, because you know

how everybody's scared of Texas right now. Sure, in Oklahoma's defense, it's a question. It's a question what the actual long term plan is for Georgia's offense and who that quarterback is. You know, they put ever, they put all, They pushed all their chips to the middle for arch Manning and it didn't work out. And so again they'll be just fine. But what's the next phase. What's Kirby three point zero

look like at Georgia? That to me is an interesting question because again, nothing guaranteed, even with a back to back national champion.

iteration will produce the same result. I think they'll be fine. I don't see any reason to really doubt it, but it is a fair question.

as the threat. That's a dual threat whatever to George's dominance, and right now it's not a twenty twenty three problem for the dogs, it seems.

this past year. I don't think we should extend him anytime soon, but I don't know who would a better hire be. I'm not delusional and think Syracuse should be ten and two every season, right, but eight and four seems reasonable from Kevin. Thank you, Kaz, A good question. We like Dino on the show. We always have a couple reference points, just to throw them out there. In terms of returning production, which is not everything but is

a meaningful number, especially for a school like Syracuse. They're a top twenty five team in terms of returning production seventy three percent on offense, seventy two percent on defense. That's inside the top forty on both fronts, so got enough coming back to hopefully continue some of the momentum from last season. I would also add that the schedule

looks beautiful on some level. There is a stretch. There is a stretch in the middle of the season last week of September through the middle of October where it's Clemson at North Carolina at Florida State. But otherwise it's Colgate, it's Western Michigan, It's at Purdue, It's Army at Virginia Tech, Boston College home against well the neutral site game, excuse me, against pitt the one that they're playing in Yankee Stadium now at Georgia Tech, close out the year against Wake Forest.

So I'm not counting anything as a surefire win for Syracuse. However, outside of those three games in the middle of the season, it feels like a pretty workable schedule. So what I would say here is whatever you want to do with Dino Babers, it will probably be very clear after this season, because this is a schedule, and this is a roster that's got enough back and that's got I think enough runway here with this slate that if they want to win eight games, seems like it's there.

regular season? Eight and four plus type seasons since two thousand because they actually did, you know, under Donovan mcnapo team, so two thousand more modern era, So two thousand and one, they go ten and three after the Bowl nine and three top fifteen team. After that, the number of eight win seasons in the Big East in the regular season is zero. So it's nice to say, and maybe the schedule workout has it definitely did a couple of years

ago when they won ten games. If you remember, they played a bunch of all kind of overrated ACC teams and pulled those out with the senior quarterback. They got very lucky on in Eric Dungee, who I think is

from Portland, Oregon. Eric, you're your guy, Eric Dungee. The evidence is not there that Syracuse should be an eight ish win team more often than not, and that's generally not because on paper they look like they could be, but in practice, this is not a team that can recruit a too deep that can compete with the upper half of the ACC consistently in an average year, and so six I think Bowl should be the expectation at Syracuse, all things considered, with the amount of dedication or lack

of dedication, however you want to view it. For Syracuse. I think Dino's fine. I think he's absolutely fine. The weird thing. The thing I would be concerned about is cash money, because they don't seem to keep coordinators around ever. And so maybe that's a good reflection on Dino Baper's ability to evaluate new assistant coaches and hires and everything like that, But it doesn't seem like they're matching buyouts

or doesn't or matching you know, Okay, we're off. You were raised to stay instead of going to coach you know Nebraska's defense Tony White, and so lack of turnover is concerning ability to recruit and build up that too deep to win eight games more often than not, pretty concerning interesting home field advantage in whatever they're calling the carrier dome now, JMA wireless.

got just demolished in that year they went ten? I think it was Notre Dame, right, Yankee Stadium, I believe, so, Yeah, they lost like thirty five to three. And so that's that's the issue where you just don't have a twelve game roster. And I think you win six or seven in Syracuse. It's pretty good. And Dino Babers is buy and large done that.

offensive guy. If he can get offense out there, then we're talking, then we're talking.

But what I am saying as we look forward down to twenty three, the schedule's there for it, and the roster is there, I think to go eight and four if they want to, not a whole lot of teams on that schedule that really put the fear of God into even on the road at North Carolina with some of their turnover, with how they've underperformed on defense, it's not a stretch to envision to shootout in which Syracuse comes away winning. But I think this is the year.

This is like the mistest for Dino. If you're a Dino fan, if you believe in Dino, if he can get everything going in the same direction, you can envision an eight and four season. If not, if he goes five and seven again against a schedule like this, then then maybe there's a reason for some healthy skepticism.

it seems. So they lost five straight, they lost by six, seventeen, ten, thirty five and ten once again, and so in their wins. They beat Perdue last second, they eke by Virginia by two. So they go seven and five this year and they're

like ninety seconds from going five to seven. Yeah, so that just it doesn't give me a lot of confidence that they're able to build up that roster to like, oh, our you know, left guard went down, our week side linebacker went down, and we're not going to miss that much of a beat, which is what better teams are able to do. And so they obviously didn't have it at quarterback when they got hurt there. Yeah, I just think they're right around five hundred.

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