Welcome to the solid verbal Hell that for me. I'm a man, I'm forty.
I've heard so many players say, well, I want to be happy.
You want to be happy for a day? Edo State is that?
Woo woom and Dan and tie welcome back to the solid verbal boys, girls, my name is Ty Hildebrandt, joining me as always over there in sunny Chicago, Illinois.
Sir, how are you? I'm pretty good. Yesterday was cold, today is warm. We get to have on one of my favorite football people. I don't really even watch the NFL that much. It's just out of a time thing. It's fine. It's a totally entertaining league, but I'm always interested in sort of the behind the scenes stuff and the team building stuff involved with the NFL more so
than some of the game watching. And so to have Robert Mays on, somebody I've I've read and listened to for a while and we crossed over with at grant Land briefly. I'm just fall on excited to nerd out over the draft.
Robert Mays. He is the host of the Athletic Football Show for the Athletic. He also writes about the NFL for the Athletic previously, as you said of Grantland and Monday Morning Quarterback at dot Com The Ringer. Yes, so Robert's been around and really knows the stuff when it comes to all things pro football. This is one of those hybrid times of year for college football fans because there are a lot of college people who are frankly in the same boat as us. We pay intimate attention
to the college game. We're interested, if only tangentially, in the NFL Draft to see where some of our players and some of these names go on the next level. But maybe we don't have that depth of knowledge that someone like Robert does about the NFL, where guys fit, where they don't fit, what kind of trends exist in the NFL, etc. Etc. So we're gonna have him all. We're gonna have a nice long interview to talk about all things NFL draft.
Is the NFL not like the what is the retired or the older golf level called when you're forty fifty plus or something like that, the Champions Tours, the Champions Tour. Yeah, Is the NFL not the Champions Tour of college football? Is that its own like suspected level.
They might take exception to that label, but from our standpoint, yeah, sure, not sure.
I mean, I'm just interested NFL wise, since I mean I kind of like the forty nine ers. I don't really watch forty nine ers games, though. I like seeing how the college players I liked for whatever reason, if they're on Oregon, if they're not an organ how they do That's just always interesting to me. And that's just
me following from Afar. But yeah, this is that week where we cross over and I used to do a lot of draft stuff at old jobs and seeing how, you know, the teams that drafted the had the most like second and third round picks, and how do that correlate to wins? And also it's all fascinating to me, the value system and the strategy of the draft that to me is fast.
Yeah, I like the presentation of the draft.
Remember when we did we nail? What song did we nail? That would be like the commercial bumpers? Was that all of the lights? Yeah, Kanye song.
I think I don't remember who got it, but I remember we nailed it. Because there's always like a draft song.
Right well ahead of us. I guess Rihanna had lived your life right, Yes, that was a song. That really hit one year. I don't know what. I'm not paying nearly enough attention to pop music to know what will be used as bumpers. That's that's actually your expertise, Ti, it is, so I'm putting you on the spot. I mean, we'll be doing a show. Well, we'll be recording Wednesday for Thursday, so there's no way we could know by then.
But this is our draft preview episode. So what is I guess in the last three to eight months something like that? What is the song that, either musically or with the lyrics is going to be featured? Is that bumper song? We'll call it for ESPN? I don't you're on the spot?
Well I did. I I did read a little bit about this just in preparation for this show, Okay, And no, I don't know what that song is going to be. I believe that Kings of Leon are going to be performing. I don't know how, Like at where is its Cleveland?
Cleveland? Okay, because it was Nashville last show, which would have made sense. I think they live in Nashville, the Kings of Leon.
But I believe, if memory serves, they're going to be They're going to be part of the coverage. Somehow that does not quite rise to the level of what we're what we're talking about here, we're talking about like the pop song of the moment that ESPN is going to slap on top of its coverage. Let me think about that. To get back to you, I'm looking at the clothing bit here.
Dua lipa would be great to have there. I thought I couldn't tell you what song. I'm ooh hmmm, I'm listening to one right now, but we don't have the rights to play it, but I'm playing it in my my headphones. The levitating song.
Yeah, it's a gem.
I mean, if you Jenny right, it's that. If you want me like, well, that's very You can tie that to the draft.
That was the first song that I thought of when you asked me that question.
Do a lipa featuring De Baby or Debaby featuring No? It is featuring de Baby, Okay, Just to be clear, leave the door open, Bruno Mars. Does that fit from a sensibility?
No, I don't know.
It's a little too sexy, I think now that I listen to it. Man, I don't know any of these artists, which it just means I'm out of touch. It doesn't mean that they're dumb. What's next, drake m? I mean that that fits thematically. I don't know what the song is.
About, right, I need to I need to look a little bit more here.
Oh man, we've we've already featured the weekend in the NFL, so it's probably not going to be the weekend.
This is my assignment for the Thursday show.
Okay, so I'm saying do a lipa. That's my final answer.
That's a very good answer. I will stick with that for now. But this is going to be my homework assignment. I don't know what our show is going to be on Thursday. We'll have some draft theme to it because we have something, did you?
I will continue to watch the Netflix episode of there's some like behind the track, like how various songs are produced and like the Thorough Story, there's a dual leap episode and it's fantastic. I don't think I saw that on Netflix.
I did watch the Maren Morris and z Middle.
Now this is like a fall on half hour well produced show that was like a New York Times.
That was a six minute clip or whatever. Yeah, right now, I didn't see that one yet.
Oh, you should definitely go out of your way. It's really good.
That's all. Well.
On that note, as Dan said, draft preview show, Robert Mays from The Athletic will have him on momentarily in the interim, if you could go on out to our website solid reble dot com. You could find all the links there if you want to follow along with your podcasting app of choice. Also, if you want to sign up four hour newsletter, which you can also sign up for at newsletter dot soliverble dot com. As we said on the last show, send us your writing samples. If
you're interested in being part of the fun. We've had a bunch come in already. Submissions at soliverble dot com is where you can submit some of the stuff that you're proud of. We want to try and add some more written stuff to our newsletter, to our website, et cetera, et cetera as we get a little bit closer to the season. If you're interested, again, submissions at soliverble dot com and last, but certainly not least, verbalers dot com
is where you can go. I believe we're going to post the video of the interview for our Patreon subscribers just as a nice little bonus.
And Robert Mays will tell you the exact level of fame that is okay with him, and he is seems like he's already reached it. So maybe this will push him over the top to being too famous. But we don't care.
We don't care. He gave us permission. It's true to used to video Robert Mays. He's the host of the Athletic Football Show. He's an NFL writer for the Athletic Mister Mays, how are you? It's Draft week? It is Draft week.
I don't feel the least been insulted about never being on because I don't really know much about college football I would not be useful to your listeners except in this context.
So we technically crossed over at Grantland. I don't think we had anybody else from Grantland on. But now this is this is our perfect time of year together.
Yeah. Absolutely. When how long were you there? It was only first year? Right? Yeah? When?
So it was it was the starters, which I guess they were basketball Jones, then men and Blazers and us when they when Bill brought in like outside, it was through Jacoby brought an outside podcast to fill out the grant Land network, and then I took a job at Espanation. They were like, yeah, we can't really have you on anymore. Like that's cool, no worries.
I don't remember much of twenty eleven. It's not like I was drunk for most of the year. I actually wasn't. I didn't do anything fun. I just was working constantly and was getting like four hours of sleep at night as we were trying to run the website with about five people. So that time in my life is very much a blow.
Will you do it?
You were doing the show with Bill Barnwell then, I think or that wasn't.
The first year. That was later.
So the first year that I was there, I actually did a show with e from Salam that we called The Trenches. I did I should not have had a podcast. It was completely irresponsible for Jacoby to put me on the air. I was twenty three years old. I had no idea what I was doing. I had no experience, and they were just like, do you want a football podcast?
I was like, sure, I'll take that.
Actually uniquely qualifies you for a podcast. No experience, no idea what you're doing. In twenty eleven. It absolutely did the idea. If you had told me ten years ago that podcasting would be the biggest chunk of my job a decade later, I would have thought something had gone horribly wrong, and I just never would have believed you. But here we are, and it seems to be a sustainable life, which I'll take.
I think it's I think it's going to continue. Yeah, all, yeah.
Same, because I can't write anymore.
I've lost the ability to do it, so fingers still goes up to dry.
I'm screwed.
So okay, let's talk about the topic at hand here, the NFL Draft. I got to start out with this, Are you an NFL network or ESPN guy? On Draft night? Which covers do you watch?
It's a great question.
I typically go NFL and Network, especially now that Daniel Jeremias on. I've known DJ for a couple of years and he's a buddy, so I enjoy supporting him whenever possible. But I think this year we'll probably be watching on silent because or I'm mute because we're doing a live show the night of the draft, so we're going to have it out in the background and be reacting to it. So we're gonna have to decide on a feed. I haven't talked to the other guys who are going to
be in the room yet. That's going to be something that requires a little bit of teasing out.
Are you at all nostalgic for the weird awkwardness that we saw in twenty twenty with the virtual zoom Oh yeah, combo draft, whatever you want to call that.
Absolutely, we were talking about it on our show that's going to run later this week, me and Lindsay Jones. I'm sad that we're not going to have any Cliff Kingsbury sockless with the speed up on a table and that palatial Arizona home.
All we have now is the Rams.
Who is the coach whose son was like on the toilet?
Oh, Mike Vrabel, his son's friends doting extremely weird stuff. Which if you had asked me to rank all of the coaches and I had to pick the one whose kids would be being weird stuff during the broadcast, I probably would have had Mike Vrabel in my top three or so.
I like, aren't the Rams do? They did? They rent to house in Malibu? This year?
They did? They did? Sponsored by Rocket.
Mortgage of course of course, So okay, how much how much college football do you watch for just college football's sake? And how much do you watch through the lens of like, Okay, this is who's coming, this is where the draft might end up in a few months. What is your actual college football consumption, if at all? So it changed last year obviously for the most part. When I would watch it organically, it would be with friends who went to
certain schools. So my buddy played volleyball at Penn State. Who's my best friend. We watched Penn State games together every so often. I have friends it went to Michigan. One of my really good friends played quarterback in Indiana. So I watch a lot of Big ten teams casually on Saturday, and sometimes I'll catch bigger games if something. If it's Alabama's playing whoever, Georgia on a Saturday night at seven pm, I'll do that, But rarely does that happen that often.
I'll watch the playoff.
Every year, so when it gets a little bit later, I'll watch that just purely for enjoyment's sake. But I will readily admit that I come to the process with relatively less knowledge and drastically less relatively less knowledge of most people, drastically less than I assume the layman would ascribe to me. Considering I do this for a living, I really don't watch that much college football, and for that reason I come to this and I don't know.
I'm trying to think of a good example. I didn't know who Christian Darisaw was before I started the draft process. Somebody like that is never something that would come across my plate in the normal rhythms of my life.
It's sometimes tough, by the if you cover college football because there are so many teams. All of a sudden, somebody appears in the top fifteen of a mock draft. You're like, oh okay, I mean this team is you know, four and eight or something like that, and so you're not paying that much attention. It's difficult to find those standouts playing for underwhelming teams. So that does happen two
people like us as well? I mean, were there people this year where you're like, now that other than I guess Christian Dara saw that you've come into contact with where you're like, is anybody talking about oh yes, they are, oh okay, good like at least it confirms my talent for watching film.
You know, there wasn't really anybody like that again, because I think last season was so strange and I probably watched less than I would in a normal year. Somebody I did like when I watched him a little bit because I was watching him play against Penn State in twenty nineteen was Rashad Bateman. Remember watching him in that game. I was like, man, that guy got some route running savvy to him. He puts a little sauce on some of this stuff. I like the way he plays. So
that was somebody that I knew I had enjoyed. Other than that, though not really. I mean for most of the other guys, it was the bigger names, and I came to them at the same pace that most people would.
Is this a season Do you feel like GM scouts, anybody talking about the sport? Are they looking at last fall as like we can't put an entire amount of weight into what we saw last fall because of the up and down nature of starting and stopping and only playing three games or six games or you know, whatever it is. Is there less weight on last fall or are people just trying to pick it up hard and project like they normally do.
It does seem like the opt outs have raised questions. People want to know why certain players opted out, and I think that's more that's what it is more than anything else. I think it's it puts one more box next to a player's name that you have to check what it's trying to figure out the reasons if there was a drop in play, if somebody opted out. I think it's just led to more questions, even if they're not taking it less seriously.
But I think it's it's caused.
More thoroughness in the process than it might require in a typical year.
What players stand out to you when you think of questions like are there any guys that are on your radar where you kind of have that lingering like I need to know more about this guy before I'd feel comfortable with him.
I think the medical stuff with some of the guys. Caleb Farley is somebody that when you watch him play, I had somebody with the team last week just say flat out, he's the most talented corner and when you watch him play, I think that's true. You know, he just has such great movement skills and the size is there. It's a rare combination of physical profile and movement skills, but I would be concerned about a back injury, a
back injury that's lingering and might require another surgery. I think there are some teams that their doctors have okayed it, but there's a lot of risk involved there. Jalen Phillips is another one. When you watch him, he's got all the physical talent in the world. Obviously, he was one of the best recruits in the country coming out. You see that, you know he's built the right way. You know he uses his hands in a way that I think other guys in his class don't typically. But there's
serious questions about his medicals and some other stuff. So I think that's that's part of it, is guys that opted out and guys that have medical lingering, medical concerns. There's just less certainty associated with those guys than it would be in a typical year.
To that point. Do you have a favorite I don't know, over the top draft critique, you know, like we've heard about. I think it was Penn Suol Dan. His past blocking maybe isn't where it needs to be. The guy's a mountain. I'm sure he'll be fine in the wal term. Zach Wilson. Somebody said early on that he's got like a spoiled attitude. It's not going to play well if he ends up
going to a big city like New York. Have you heard any criticism like that that really stands out to you as being very obvious.
I think that a lot of the conversations about the quarterbacks have sent me back to the drawing board and have caused me to rewatch some stuff and just reevaluate what I could possibly be seeing. Can I watch justin Fields. I'm not a quarterback expert. I know what I'm watching. I watch it, but I don't study it. I guess that's the distinction. And when I watch him play, that just looks like the second best guy. To me, it
looks like the second most talented guy. And if you look at where he came from and what he is supposed to be as recruit, and it's the accuracy. When we have guys that have true that are outliers physically, that have the frame, the arm, strength, the mobility, all of that stuff, I think the bigger questions about them, for the most part are accuracy, can he place the ball where he wants to? And the idea that Justin Fields may be the most accurate quarterback among these four, and.
He has all of those physical tools.
I'm just a little confused about what the conversation is and why we're not considering him the second best quarterback. And I've asked people that I think it's because he plays a little bit more methodically. He's not even as quick to run as you might want him to be. So if you're trying to have an offense that runs on time, is he going to be able to do
that for you? I understand that concern to a certain extent, but when I watch that guy and everything else that I've heard about him, I just don't understand why we're not having a more real conversation about why he should be going to San Francisco instead of Mac Jones or Tree Lines.
Well, I'm glad you bring up Mac Jones because that was where I was going to go next. Is he this year's Daniel Jones in that double Jones? Yeah, We're getting to a point where it feels like mac Jones has been talked up to the point where people are willing to accept him as a potential number three overall pick much the way Daniel Jones was talked up as the sixth overall pick and ended up going to the
Giants pretty high. Now, from the college football side of things, I think we came to that as Okay, Daniel Jones is a good quarterback at Duke. I don't know if he's a top ten pick. I think we feel similarly about Mac Jones. I'm curious to get your take on him, especially since you kind of came into this process with virgin eyes.
I was expecting to like him less than I did when I turned down a few games from last year. I want to watch the Georgia game, and I probably watched two or three other games of him before we did the podcast about him a couple weeks ago, and I expected to just see a guy that wasn't very impressive, that had been overrated for this and this reason. But there are a lot of aspects to his game. Was like, I understand this. I get why you could talk yourself
into this. It's the anticipation. He plays very quickly, and I think a lot of that is the way the offense is distilled for him and what they're trying to accomplish, and they have so many answers baked in because they're both schematically better and more talented than every other team they play, so it's easy to look like you're playing quickly because you know who's going to be open before
the ball is even snapped. I don't know if that speaks to processing or just the overall structure of the offense, but there are aspects of his game like, all right, he gets the ball out on time, He understands space really well. He understands coverage structure and where he can put the ball in order to give his guys a chance. But those plays often include DeVante Smith having to come back aggressively for the ball or come back over somebody.
So there are qualities that he has that if I were an NFL team, especially a guy like Kyle Shanahan who just needs the ball to go to the right place in his mind every single time, I get where you would land on Mac Jones. But I still after watching him, he's not in the same stratosphere as some of these other guys when it comes to physical ability, And that's my biggest question is how is he going to operate in a situation that doesn't involve perfect conditions?
And Joe Burrow is surrounded by really good players at LSU, but he could make things happen out of structure. He can make guys miss in the pocket. His subtle mobility was arguably his greatest characteristic coming out of LSU. Mac Jones doesn't have that subtle mobility. I mean, he can Tom Brady manipulate the pocket a little bit and work in that tiny little space, but he's not making free
rushers miss. And I just think earlier in your career that's a huge, huge part of playing the position that he's lacking.
Look so much of drafting a quarterback, especially in the first round, and I know this is a pain spot for you as a Bears fan, but is talking yourself into a guy up near the top of the draft that you believe can be a top tier quarterback? And you look the last decade, even the half decade that has passed. And I don't follow the NFL that closely, but we're talking about a league littered with guys who had the potential but for whatever reason, be it injuries, situation,
just didn't live up to potential, didn't work out. Is there any broad lesson to take from the last five years of first round dudes or top fifteen draft pick quarterbacks that you can say, Okay, now that we've seen these past five years of tape, this is what we can't have in a top ten quarterback or a top twenty quarterback. Are there lessons there at all?
It's interesting because I don't know if there is. I don't even know if there are one or two, because there's so many different things you can take from each circumstance. The Panthers just traded two picks for Sam Darnolds two. He was arguably the worst quarterback in the NFL statistically
over the last three years. I think Dwayne Haskins was technically worse than him and maybe a couple other guys, but he was in there thirty two through thirty five, and the Panthers thought highly enough of him to trade two picks to go get him, because in their minds, that's all situation why he wasn't playing well, lack of protection, lack of scheme, lack of planmaking talent. So that's one conversation.
I think that for a while we had learned that picking the big, strong guy that was a little bit raw, big strong armed guy that was a little bit raw had been a mistake. Those guys typically don't become more accurate in the NFL. Then you watch what happens with Josh Allen, right, and now it shifts the conversation a little bit. And I think what's happened with Justin Herbert has also shifted it a little bit. We're looking at these guys who are toolsy and saying, all right, is
it worth making the bet on a toolsy quarterback. I don't think the conversation about Trey Lance sounds the way it does if we didn't see what just happened last year with Josh Allen and Justin Herbert. Because he is a little bit scattershot with accuracy. Sometimes there is something you have to read into when it comes to projecting him into a full time role in the NFL. He
some only started seventeen games. But because we've seen toolsy guys succeed recently, I think it's caused both the media and teams to say, all right, I'll take the toolsy guy. Because for a lot of reasons, the rules have changed, offensive coaching is better in the NFL than it's ever been. I think the gap between college and pro football has shrunk a little bit that it's easier to project guys if you can do things they're comfortable with for a
lot of different reasons. I think that that is worth making. But I don't think we would have said that even two years ago.
Do do people overreact to possible exceptions to the rule?
Then?
Is Josh Allen an exception to the rule?
Right?
It's lower level competition as as good as Wyoming football has been to whatever you believe it is. I mean, North Dakota State is not playing top tier teams, so we're talking about toolsy against lower level competition, whereas Justin Herbert obviously, I mean, you can make Pack twelve jokes, but he was playing against higher level competition. He was playing against the Auburn defense a year and a half ago.
What is that an element to things? And you mentioned the number of games guys have started, Mitch Trubisky started a season in college. You look at I mean, there are four year guys who work out. There are four of you guys who don't work out. Is it just see a GM seeing an example of somebody who worked out, and they're like, well, could be our guy too.
I think so.
I think people absolutely talk themselves into the exception too. Often and with Josh Allen. You know, I learned this in the twenty nineteen season. I went to Buffalo and I spent a couple of days there and I talked to him for a while. When you talk to him and the people around him and the coaching staff there in the front office there, he has a real desire
to get better. He's also very smart. You know, when you watched him play in college, I think it would have been easy to see that style of play and think he's this big, oafish guy, and in reality, that's not true at all. And I think that his intellect and his desire to get better played a huge role in the strides that he made. So if you look at a guy and just say that's a tools he prospect, maybe he can beat Josh Allen. I think you're reading
into the wrong things. The thing about that, though, is that everything I've heard about Trey Lance is he is that type of person where he is cerebral, he does approach it the right way, and there are these glowing reviews. If those two pieces are working in concert, maybe he can be another guy that takes a similar step that Josh Allen did. But those other intangible factors I think have to be part of that conversation.
Some of the other guys that come to mind when you talk about exception to the rule or guys that broke the mold. Obviously, Lamar Jackson's had a lot of success. Patrick Mahomes had a lot of success in college. I don't know if anyone projected this kind of success moving forward in the NFL. Who else comes to mind for guys that GMS maybe have in the back of their mind is like, maybe we could get the next blank.
Well, I think that DeVante Smith is going to be an exception conversation here over the next week, because if you look at the history of guys with that body type and that weight, it's not good. And there are mostly shorter guys. So he's even taller and leaner than some of the other players who weigh less than one
hundred and seventy pounds. If he was drafted in a top fifteen, for example, and succeeded, there are very few players that size who've ever been drafted at that level, and very fewer even still that have gone on to be successful. There are so many it's always funny the players that we get here mentioned over and over again, but maybe he can be this and it's always that exception guy Josh Allen to be the quarterbacks. DeShawn Jackson
is the undersized receiver. Every single time there's a five to ten guy who weigh one hundred and sixty eight pounds and runs a four to three eight, it's like, oh, he can just be to Shawn Jackson's there's one to Shawn Jackson, and I think there are a lot of
mistakes made if you're trying to chase that exception. But I think he'll be an example and in just on a broader level this year, this is the short armed tackle group that it is a prevailing trait among all of these guys because when we talk about Penney Seool, I love Penney School. I think he has a rare combination of frame and movement for somebody at that position, but he's not a generational the word that gets thrown
all the way around all the time. He's not a generational process because he doesn't check all of the typical boxes. He has thirty three inch arms that's small for a tackle, and a lot of guys in this class fall into that category. Rashan Slater's arms are short. Brady Christensen has really short arms. Liam Eichenberg has really short arms. So what are you going to do with those guys? And
there are success stories of that position. Jake Matthews is a thirty three and a half guy, Mitchell Schwartz is a thirty three and a half guy. Lyle Collins is actually shaped a lot like Penney suol Is. But again, you're talking yourself into exceptions, and I think it happens every year at a lot of positions, but this year it's concentrated in a couple specific areas.
One of the other things that I know Dan and I talked about, you mentioned Devonte Smith. I just want to come back to that for a second. It seems like, broadly speaking, at least from our vantage point, it's a
pretty loaded wide receiver class. Maybe that's a bit overshadowed by the fact that so much talk, at least in the top ten has been around quarterbacks and how are we gonna have five quarterbacks taken in the top ten, But at least from our vantage point and about yours, Robert, it feels like a really, really truly loaded wide receiver cord.
It's interesting because last year was build the same way, and I would say the number of guys is probably similar last year in this year, but they're shaped much different.
This year.
You have a lot of guys who are in that five eight to five eleven range. And I'll keep going back to arm length. That sound like a weird.
Scout, No good.
My buddy Nat Tice, who does the show with me, tweeted something I can't remember the exact details of it, but wide receivers with less than short arms shorter than thirty two inches. There's only been like twenty five of them or something in the past decade. I think half of them are coming out this year. So just I think the shape of playmakers is changing and you're seeing
that manifest in this class. So last year you could get a Justin Jefferson or a true prototypical outside sort of receiver at twenty five and that guy could be an All Pro. This year, there are a lot of guys that are they slot guys. Is Elijah Moore Kenny? Can he play outside? What is Rondeo Moore? The idea that Kadarius Tony is billed as a bigger guy compared to some of the other people in this class, I think says a lot, so I think it beyond the
depth of it this year. I think it speaks to how many different types of players are being put in positions to succeed at receiver now compared to would have been ten years ago. And you can understand why that's happening. The idea of space as currency in football has changed a lot.
I think in.
College it had been that way for a while, but I think in the NFL we're kind of coming to that place where we have a lot more three or four wide sets. You have a guy that's playing in
the slot consistently. I mean eleven personnel and three receiver sets in the NFL only became the prevailing personnel group in the league less than a decade ago, so the types of players and body types haven't necessarily caught up to the way the sport currently looks, and I think that we're seeing a lot of that with the types of receivers that are available in this group.
I'm glad you mentioned personnel groupings because if you look across the sport, and this is the stuff that actually really interests me about the NFL when I do have time to watch, which isn't often is certain coaches, especially younger guys, are able to do so much out of
single personnel groups. Right, it's the forty nine ers playing what twenty one personnel and using an athletic fullback, Or it's the Packers and the Rams using twelve personnel and utilizing tight ends, or the Saints not even using I believe it's the Saints not even using a tight end a lot. What is it about these younger minds at coach and coordinator that will sort of affect where where we value certain guys. Be it the shorter receivers, be it Hbax, be it Kadarius Tony who can move all
over the place. How is value changing?
It's interesting because I think with McVeigh and the Rams it gets the opposite. They were eleven personnel right ninety seven percent of the time in his first year because it's what worked, and I think that is to me, the more interesting part of all of this is that fewer coaches are fighting what's working. They're more open minded about how to approach this kind of stuff. I think the Titans are a really good example. So the Titans under MATTL. Fleuor were a Shanahan Kubiak tinged offense a
lot of outside zone play action. As they got deeper into their time with Arthur Smith, who took over for Matt with Fluor, they started using more gap running schemes, more of a vertical power play action game, and less of the boot game. So I think there are just coaches all around the league who are saying, what's working. How do I filter these ideas through my players and not fight uphill against the things that are efficient, And one way to do that, I think is creating complexity
via personnel groups. I think if you're lining up in eleven personnel seventy five percent of the time and that's how you're living, you're probably doing yourself a disservice. You probably don't have as deep, at as varied a group of pass catchers and skill position players as you probably want. You know, talking about the Bengals and what they need to do them going with Jamar Chase at five I think makes a lot of sense because they I think led the league in eleven personnel last year. They have
through receivers on the field. At the same time, I wouldn't want to live that way In an ideal world, I would want to have more options than that, and a way to create complexity, even if it's not really that much more complex.
Something you mentioned in going through some smaller receivers is what is Rondale Moore. It's a fantastic question, and it's a question that sort of pops up more and more. This year we have Kyle Pitts, right who is a tight end who can play like receiver and he's not a tweeter because some lucky team is going to figure out how to weaponize Kyle Pitts. Last year we had Isaiah Simmons. What is Isaiah Simmons? You know, he's a safety, He's a linebacker. He can line up, you know, and
rush the quarterback if need be. Are more and more coaches and coordinators on either side of the ball getting better at figuring out what a player is instead of what a player isn't.
Yes, I think, I think absolutely they are. Ty brought up to DK Metcalf. I think it's a perfect example. One of the questions about DK Metcalf coming in was, well.
What does he get? What can he do? We haven't seen him do many things.
He lined up on the left side of the formation at ole Miss and ran very fast in a straight line all the time. That's what he did. And instead of saying, well, what else can he do, the Seahawks picked him and said let's just have him do that for a while. And it worked. And that's what you saw him do. I mean as a freshman, as a rookie. He lined up in one spot and he ran go routes and slants. That's it, and it worked because that's what he's comfortable doing. His teammate from ole Miss, AJ Brown,
I think, is another great example. AJ Brown is fantastic with the ball in his hands. He is a monster. He is so big, he's so strong, such a smooth mover that Titans said, okay, this is what you do. Well, we're gonna build in yack opportunity after yack opportunity into the structure of the offense until you get your footing and you get a comfort level with some other aspects of what we want to do. And I think that's happening more and more often. And a guy like Rondeo Moore,
there's a version of him that fits in the NFL. Now, if you go look at what the Rams have done, for example, with all of the jet motion that they use and the eye candy that they use. The Chiefs are another good example of that. The one I'm picturing is green Bay. Green Bay runs a similar The bones of their offense are similar to what the Rams want to do. They come from the same tree, but they don't have that eye candy deception element to what they
are because they don't have that small space receiver. They had to use Tyler Irvin in that role, who's a hybrid returner. They had to use Aaron Jones in that role even though he's a running back. A guy like Rondel Moore fits perfectly into that idea, And that archetype of player didn't exist in the NFL ten years ago. Even if you had a slot guy, it was a Wes Welker type. There wasn't as much motion. You didn't
need as much explosiveness from that type of player. And I think that now a guy like that is more valuable in the league than he ever would have been before.
So basically, if you could reboot Taevon Austin to twenty twenty one, there's a better chance that he could find a niche in the league.
Yes, but I also think that I don't know if it would have been a bigger niche than he had before. I think the problem with tavan Austin is not his usefulness. I think it's where he was drafted. If Tavon Austin was a fourth round pick, we wouldn't look at Tavon Austin's career and say that's a disappointment. And I think that's an aspect of drafting and value that comes up over and over again. For me, I would never take the small, fast guy high. I just wouldn't do it
because you can find that guy elsewhere. Speed is available. Can Jalen Giten is a perfect example to me. Jalen Geiiten, I think was available after cutdown Day and signed with the Chargers last year, and he runs a four to three. He gives you a vertical aspect to your offense. You don't need to draft him eleventh overall like the Raiders did with Henry Ruggs. That's not necess I feel like teams are looking at what it's happening with Tyreek Hill
and said, speed is what we're missing. Tyreek Hill isn't good because he's fast. Tyreek Hill is good because he's fast and he is able to weaponize that speed because he doesn't have to slow down because he's incredibly strong. Again, he's one of those guys that I think leads to evaluation mistakes among other teams because they're looking for the wrong things.
So we haven't mentioned his name yet. Trevor Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence comes into the league presumably first overall pick. He's going to go to the Jacksonville Jaguars. He's going to have a new coach, a former college coach in Urban Meyer. What does that situation look like for a guy like a Trevor Lawrence, who many on the college side have viewed for a long time, even before he was playing for Clemson as a generational type talent. Can he succeed at the next level quickly?
I think so.
I do believe that he can, because if you look at what the Jaguars have done, I actually think it's a really fascinating way to do a teardown. I am a fan of pressing the reset button hard. I think that it's a way to get it out of these really murky middle ground situations. The team find teams find themselves in what the Dolphins did at what the right after the Browns did it, I think is exactly how
you should approach that sort of thing. It's why I get frustrated with the Bears and them trying to tinker with this model that clearly isn't working. The Jags have done that. They hit the reset button in pretty much every conceivable way. They traded Khalais Campbell, they traded Yanni Knakway, they traded Jay and Ramsey. That one we can discuss, but they I think that by purging the roster of expensive talent starting over, you've given yourself a blank slate.
The one area where they did not do that, where they did not purge the roster of second contract and third contract veterans was the offensive line. They brought back Cam Robinson on the franchise tag to play left tackle for them this year. Jawan Taylor s so their right tackle, so off aj Can, Brandon Linder, Andrew Norwell I believe is still there. Rattling off starting offensive lines by hard
is something at the copy. But they have five starting caliber line and they brought back to their left tackle in the tag, and I think at first glance, you look at that and you'd say, why is a team drafting first overall, using the franchise tag on someone. That's something you do to keep your roster together when you think you're close. But the idea of saying our offensive line is going to be intact when we get this once every ten year sort of guy in here because
we can't ruin him. I actually like that as a way to allocate your resources. So if the line is and I think sometimes it's overstated how bad these situations are, but it's not as if we have to dig back into deep history to find a number one overall pick with a bad offensive line. It happened last year. That's very recent. And I think that Lawrence's situation with the protection, which is where I'd start in any of these conversations, is better than it was with Joe Burrow last year.
The weapons is an interesting conversation because they have Leviska Chanalt, who they drafted last year I believe in the second round. Interesting talent. I mean, obviously he had was one of those super charged yack guys coming into the NFL. I'll be curious to see what he looks like in this offense. But he's young. They have Marvin Jones they brought in as a one year free agent rental. I think he's the perfect sort of guy you have as an outside option. And then DJ Shark is in the last year of
his contract. They have another first round pick and an extra second round pick because Chark is going to the last year of his deal. He wasn't picked by this regime. He could absolutely see them trying to draft a pass catcher high up in this draft to add a little juice to that group. If they go get an Elijah Moore or somebody like that, that's a I like that. That is a group you can work with. In the personnel side. On the coaching staff side, Daryl Bevell is
their offensive coordinator. Daryl Bevell is as NFL establishment as you can possibly get. Everyone's team has had. Daryl Bevell is their office at that point, and he's not an exciting name, but if you look at the results, it's been pretty solid. You know, they were too run heavy in Seattle. How much of that was him and how much of that was Pete Carroll at the end, It's hard to say, but they were I believe seventh in EPA per drop back over the from twenty twelve through
twenty seventeen when he was there with Russell Wilson. That is encouraging to me. He was very good with Matthew Stafford in twenty nineteen for the first half of the season, that play action, aggressive down the field approach, which I
think will work out well with Trevor Lawrence. And the other thing that not a lot of people have talked about but I find interesting, is that he was double was with Russell Wilson at the beginning in Seattle when Russell Wilson was kind of the cog in this machine that had a great defense in a great running game. And I don't think Trevor Lawrence should ever be that.
But I do like having an offensive coordinator that understands how to insulate his quarterback if necessary, how to take something off of Lawrence's plate, if they get to a place where he's getting hit way too much, something like that, like we need to drop back a little bit less. So I just think the pieces are in place. And that's before we even mention what influence Urban Meyer is going to have. What does this look like, So all of the factors combined, I'll say this, The offensive line
is not great, the weapons aren't great. We have not total certainty about what the schematic circumstances are going to look like. But we have seen recent examples where it's been much much worse with much lesser quarterbacks than Trevor Lawrence.
You bring up Urban in college obviously a god. How do NFL people feel about a Ramayer?
I think it's curiosity more than anything else. You know, what, how do you build a program at this level? What types of players do you look for? What does he look like in building a roster when he can't have anybody that he wants. You know, when somebody that you pick in the third round has to start for you because you have no defensive talent, how frustrating is it going to be when that guy is talent efficient in ways that you're not typically used to dealing with Schematically?
What does it look like? I mean, obviously Urban Meyer ushered in an entire new era of what offensive football looks like at the college level. What does it look like in the NFL? How does he mesh with? Again, somebody who is extremely traditional in Daryl Bevell and Brian Schottenheimer is their passing game coordinator. It's hard to have a more establishment last name in the NFL than that, So what does it end up looking like?
That? To me is the overarching feeling here is I want to see what it is.
I don't know how to feel about it yet, but I know I want to watch what it looks like from day one.
When gms and scouts or whoever is making decisions in the front office look back to college, do they look in the way I guess Bill Belichick has done. Like Bill Belichick will listen to Nick Saban, perhaps more than other college coaches, and I guess draft Rutgers players. That's a thing that was there for a little bit. But is there some sort of benefit of the doubt, especially with coaches who used to coach a position group. Nick
Saban used to coach defensive backs. Kirk Farens as your beloved Marshallyanda, We'll tell you he was an offensive line coach. He was an offensive line coach in the NFL. Dabosweeney coached receivers before he was the head coach at Clemson, and Clemson receivers have done pretty well in the NFL. Is that something that gms and scouts have in the
back of their mind as they're building their boards. Just the background of the college head coaches positionally that Okay, they can identify, they can develop this guy's going to be ready for the NFL because this is their specific head coach and that is his specialty.
Oh.
I don't know if the GMS are necessarily thinking that, but I absolutely think if I were the owner and I were looking for a slightly out of the box hire and somebody who and I go back and forth on this, I typically land when if I were hiring a head coach, yeah, and I were building my qualifications, I would start with a list of play calling offensive head coaches. That's where I would start, because I just
think it's the easiest way to sustain success. You look at what happened with the Falcons when Kyle Shanahan left and how quickly they fell off. What's going to happen now that Arthur Smith is no longer in Tennessee after he had so much success. We don't ask those questions about Andy Reid and Sean Payton or even the Patriots with Josh McDaniels to a certain extent, they're there all the time.
So that's where I would start. But if you weren't one of those people.
If you were a little bit more open mind about the types of coaches you'd want to run your program. I think looking at a college coach and saying that person has managed a roster, he's thought about where holes can be, he's thought about how position groups fit together, all of that stuff. I think there's value in that. I think there's value in being able to look at a coach who has big picture experience and how that can translate to having personnel control in the NFL, which
he most likely does. I don't know what the actual details of it are, but he's in charge there, and I think that you can absolutely talk yourself into his experience building rosters at Ohio State informing what he'd be able to do in Jacksonville.
Are there systems on either side of the ball that that scare gms that's just like, Okay, this team ran this three four, but I don't like what they did with gaps. I don't like the coverage is that they played. Are there specific systems in the way that like, obviously, the spread was something that NFL teams were wary of early on. Whatever spread means it's now obviously means like
thirty different things. But other systems to this day where you're just like, I don't trust that these guys aren't taught to do this on either side of the ball.
I feel like there's not as much hesitancy or there's not as much reticence among coaches now as there was five to ten years ago, because the same problems still exists. You know, the spread offense hasn't gone away. There's the RPOs and the way that the screen game works. When you watch Trevor Lawrence, mean, it's a Mickey Mouse offense compared to what he would run in the NFL.
I mean, it's.
Incredibly efficient, but a lot of it is baked into the structure in terms of what he's doing.
And I don't think that is as.
Much of a concern as it used to be because those two things are converging. There's more RPOs in the NFL than there was five to ten years ago. I think NFL teams are willing to steal from college wholesale in a way they weren't ten years ago, So that concerned to me, is a little less important. Same goes
for wide receivers. I remember Kys Shanahan talking about this a couple of years ago in regard to Deebo Samuel where he was saying that you don't see as many receivers run traditional routes in college for a few different reasons. It's not the structure of the offense. They're not playing against a lot of pressman coverage, if they're not playing in the SEC, all that other stuff. But instead of saying this is a problem because I can't evaluate that person,
he's saying I'm gonna do what works for him. I'm gonna get the ball in his hands. I'm gonna let them play in space. So that's kind of what I was saying before about offensive coaches evolving in the league. I think there are fewer excuses and fewer instances of Bill Walsh did it this way, so that's how we're going to do it. I think those walls have fallen down a little bit defensively, I think it's a little
bit more complicated. I think that's where some bigger gaps are starting to exist, especially when you're not dealing with some of the teams that have high quality quarterback cornerback talent.
If you look at what Ohio State.
Had been doing when Okuda was there and some of those other guys, what Alabama can do on a play to play basis Georgia, there's a press man, they're doing things and you're seeing them in man coverage. You can project that into the NFL. If you're looking at some of these teams in the Big Twelve or other places where it's quarters every play and that's all you see them do, it's really hard to project defensive backs out of that system in terms of what you expect from them.
I mean, if you're watching a corner turn in quarters every single play, you don't know what he looks like in man coverage for the most part. So I think that gap is interesting, But also I think that stuff is starting to converge a little bit. The idea that Carl Scott, who was one of the people who oversaw the secondary in Alabama for so many years and the ways that they would play those specific coverages that they measured in, is now on the staff with the Vikings.
I think that's really interesting. I think that's even another example of the two games kind of coming to get other in ways they weren't before. Brandon Staley is another good one. He did a ton of college specific stuff, especially with fronts with the Chargers last year. So as coaches get younger as coach, as they get more open minded, I think we're gonna see some of this stuff filter both ways.
Are there guys that you don't anticipate being taken high at all this year where you just you've caught them, even caught them watching tape on other guys where you've said, I don't know, I think this guy's just gonna be good. He might be projected as like a fifth round pick. I guess this is your football guy, right, capital F, capitol G football guy. Are there guys this year Whe're just like, Yeah, I think this guy's gonna be in the league for six years.
Those I haven't digging that deep into the pool of players, if I'm being honest. I mean I've watched the top ten or at top like eight to ten at most positions. I'm trying to think of somebody that I've stumbled onto that, Like, there are guys that I've watched a little bit lower at certain spots that I think are intriguing. Peyton Turner from Houston is an edge rusher that I watch him. I'm like, Oh, that guy, I don't know. I like what he's He's high cut, and the competition isn't very good.
I don't really know what to make of him, but he's somebody that jumped out to me a little bit. But other than that, I mean, most of the guys I've watched are in the top one hundred or so, so I'm not the best person to ask about that.
Do you have any theories like you did about Justin Herbert that aren't necessarily grounded in specific data? But you're just like, look, this is how I feel about this kind of player, this is how I feel about this position. I don't care that I don't have a ton of supporting proof. Maybe you did for Justin Herbert and he was the exception. What are your latest theories about anything with the draft?
This one is rooted in a little bit of data.
One of the conversations I've had a lot over the last month, and I've written about it, We've talked about on our show A Bunch is what the Bengal should do at five and all of the kind of points in forming that discussion. So if you're the Bengals and you could pick between Penny Suel and Jamar Chase, you I don't think that whatever direction you go in that whoever you pick among those two, you're not just picking one of those players. You're sending a message about what
you value in picking one of those players. And I understand if they went with Chase, if they assigned Riley Reef in free agency, they have two starting caliber tackles. You probably find an interior alignment in the second round. And if you think Jamar Chase is a rare talent, if you want to pick him at five, go crazy.
He feels in need all that stuff. But I think it's led to conversations about scarcity and about where we find these players, because in my mind, when I wrote about it and have thought about it, I just see things you can't get elsewhere. And I've just watched what's happened at the receiver position, especially we talked about DK Metcalfe and A. J. Brown already where you can find star level receivers in throughout the league. And then I
think about tackles. It's harder. It's much much harder to find high quality tackles beyond the first round, and even past that, it's hard to find starting quality tackles in free agency. Riley Reef was the best offensive tackle in free agency this year that's not very good. There's so many receivers now, whether it's the depth of certain draft classes or guys that you can find in the free
agent market. I just think it's harder to find a really good receiver or really good offensive tackle than it is to find a really good receiver. That, though, leads to a conversation and some questions about do you need high quality offensive tackles? Where does positional value fit into this? So everything about the Bengals and what they're thinking about and the debates that are happening in that building has just led me down so many different paths over the
last month. I've thought more about the Bengals than I ever thought I would in the lead up to any sort of NFL draft.
Let me jump in real quick. So, what is because you mentioned that, and you mentioned earlier you can wait on speed. You can find speed in the fourth round. You know, you can find a dude who's five to eleven, two hundred and can run a four to four or whatever, and you can plug him in the.
Way you see fit.
What does your positional value draft board look like? What do you need to grab as soon as possible if you are Robert May's general manager, and what are you waiting on?
I think, I mean, quarterback is a different conversation outside of quarterback. Yeah, yeah, outside of quarterback. I don't have any hard and fast rules. I've rethought a lot of this stuff compared to what I would have thought five years ago. If you had asked me five years ago, I would have said quarterback, edge rusher, offensive tackle, a corner, receiver, and then probably interior defensive line, interior offensive line, and
safety somewhere in there. I think the game has changed a lot, and I think that my views on it have changed a decent amount. I think corner and edge rusher are closer than they would have been. There's a lot of data out there suggesting that past coverage is more valuable than past rush. I don't know how much I believe that or buy into that. I think they're
probably pretty close. I also think that if you can find a dominant interior rusher, that that changes the equation in the same way that an edge rusher might like an Aaron Donald or Chris Jones or even at Toforest Buckner last year. I think those guys. The gap between that and the best edge rusher has probably shrunk a
little bit. I think that safeties aren't less valuable than they've been, but with the way the league is going, or seeing so many more split safety coverages in the NFL, that prototypical middle of the field center field safety that needs to be rangy isn't as valuable anymore because there are a fewer teams sticking in a Cover three shell
and playing that way. So if your safety requires less movement skills, maybe he's not as impressive on tape and you can find him a little bit later in the draft. So I don't know if their importance has changed, or if the types of players that can fit those roles that pool has just gotten bigger. So I think it's very muddy. I mean, it depends on what sort of
system you're running. It's definitely something that I've rethought and reshuffled more in the last couple of years than I probably had in the previous five years combined.
All right, mister Mays, we'll get you out of here on this rapid fire. I'm going to put you on the spot. I hate to do it, but's why we're here. I'm going to give you a handful of teams and I want you to tell me who they should pick. Okay, let's do it. The Jets at two, Justin Fields. I like that pick. That's the correct pick for those playing along at home. The Falcons at four.
Trey Lance if Justin Fields is off aboarded too, Okay.
My New York Giants at eleven.
Elijah Vera Tucker if he's there, and.
Your Chicago Bear is at twenty.
That I don't have as much of a conviction on because I think that it'll depend on who's around and certain positions. That team is not nearly as fully formed as people seem to like, or people seem to think and people seem to talk about. I don't think they're one receiver or one tackle. I think they need an offensive tackle, they need secondary help, they need receiving help. They could probably, I mean, there's so many different areas
so idea. If we're up to me, and I think if Darisol was on the board, I would take him. I don't think he will be. If it were beyond that, I think it would probably come down to Rashad Bateman and Tevin Jenkins, and I'd probably take Bateman just because I love his game in the style which he plays, and who knows how long Al Robinson's going to be there, So again it's hard to say one specific guy just because I think they have more holes than other people might.
And because we need to be inclusive. I should also mention at three traded up big big headlines here leading up to the draft, Dan's San Francisco forty fives.
Well, if they, I mean, so can we use the players we already picked? Because if Justice Fields is there, I would.
Pick Justin Fields.
Yeah, But if he were to go to the Jets, then I'd still probably say Trey Lance for them too. That's who I would pick, probably over mac Jones. But I understand the argument for mac Jones for them. You know, Lance is a little bit more of a project in the sense that if the accuracy isn't where you'd want it to be, all that other stuff. The thing though he played the exact same amount of games as mac
Jones in college. The idea that we talked about Mac Jones is this finished product and Trey Lance has so far to go, which I think is how it's being viewed. You know, mac Jones is the win now guy. Trey Lance is somebody who could sit for a year they started the exact same number of games in college, and that has not been brought up nearly.
Off fit enough, Ty, here's my final question, just because life seems to be opening up Chicago. There are few, if any better places during the summer. What are you eating this summer in the beautiful city of Chicago, inside, outside, everywhere between.
I'm so excited. I have dinner reservations at Suko, which is the Carlos Guiden who was on Top Chef and he ran Mechik. It's his new restaurant in River North. I'm excited to eat there this week.
I have kind of.
What kind of food is that?
Mexican?
It's Mexican food, so it's Mexican food with like French influence. And Samus's other place, who was had a Michelin star Rosemary, which is the new restaurant from Joe Flamm who won Top Chef. I know about the Chicago guy. So it's a Croatian Italian place in Fulton Market. The menu looks crazy, it looks exactly like what.
I want to eat.
And then there's a new Greek place in Logan Square Semi knew by one of the guys who was the head chef. I think at rpm Italian that opened a place called Andros Taverna in Logan Square. I want to say it's on Kedzie, right there near the park. I'm going there the week after. I have like six reservations I've already set up over the next couple of weeks.
My wife looked up Rosemary and apparently there were only reservations at like nine to thirty on Mondays available, But that is stashed away. We will get there this summer.
I may have pulled a couple strings, so WHOA. I don't want any more people to know who I am than know right now. I want this level of whatever fame is not famous the wrong word, but this level of awareness. The fact that I can get a table at a Chicago restaurant is exactly the sweet spot of where I want to be living.
I say, no more than what I have right at this moment.
That's a perfect level. I have no complaints. I would love to reach that level. I mean, I'm in the burbs, this is not that exciting, but there are so many places in the city I'm dying to try. Because I've only been here less than a year, so I essentially my Palette is still extremely green with Chicago.
Yeah, you got to get down here. I mean it's this.
There's so many places and they keep sprouting up. I mean obviously some places closed, but I mean there are three or four even new places that I'm really excited about that I haven't even gotten a try that came out as the pandemic was happening or right now. I mean Rosemary's brand brand new, So I'm really looking forward. Have you been to the things I'm most excited about.
I think it's called Pizza Friendly Pizza. Have you been there? I have not, and I think it's in Ukrainian Village. You actually go through an alley to get it. It's like the perfect level of like very dumb, hipster pizza stand that could exist. It's wonderful.
I think there's a bunch of them now on the West Side. There are too many of them for me to even try. I live right near the new Polyges and Wicker Park, and that they already have a Logan Square location. I mean, there's so many of them, I feel like I'm never gonna be able to try them all. I have to come and try your pizza at some point anytime.
Anytime you tell me what toppings would make up the magnificent maze or whatever we call your square or circular pie. What is your topping of choice? Are you like your topping combo?
I have a couple different ways that I go. I'm a big fan of artichoke on pizza. Okay, really like artichoke, and I am thinking of all the things I can put it on, put on it at piece because they have, like the most the biggest list of toppings. I'm a big fan of green olives on pizza, so some some sort of pepperoni, sausage, artichoke, green olive conversation combination is where I often.
Like to live.
You like that punch of salt?
I do? I do?
I know it's a lot, but for whatever reason, I just love green olives and it doesn't overwhelm me.
I'm gonna think on this ty this. This is as good an insight as I could have hoped for.
This is a natural segue from draft to salty pizza. I love it. A good way to close it out here, Robert Mays, enjoy the rest of your week. Best of luck to you. As the NFL Draft continues turning along. I'm sure you'll be short on sleep at some point, but always appreciate your coverage and watch us. Thank you very much for stopping by. Yeah, watch the stream.
Check it out.
Where can we find Can we find the stream?
It'll be on Twitter, It'll be on the Athletics YouTube page. If you check the Athletic app, you'll be able to see it. I'm sure I'll tweet about it fifty times between now and the draft.
But good.
It's me Nate Tice, Dane brug or Lindsay Jones, and we're gonna start live at nine thirty Eastern, essentially after the fifteenth pick. We wanted not to compete with the broadcast, but as things are slowing down, we'll be speeding up. So hopefully people will come and spend some time.
Done cool, well, enjoy the week, enjoy the draft, and we'll have to have you back.
On soon anytime. Guys. I really appreciate the time. This is great, all.
Right, Dan Robert mays one more time from the Athletic I feel smarter, actually.
As do I I when he says things like you can wait on speed, just like draft speed, and like the third or fourth round. You know, there's always guys, of that body type with that ability. I thought to myself, Yeah, I will wait on speed as if I will ever be in that that that share deciding on how to build an NFL team. But like, yeah, yeah, that does make sense. Great call, so I mas was fantastic.
I appreciate the insight of Mac Jones because Mac Jones, no disrespect to him. I don't get it.
Give me well Son, I don't get. Let's break things out. I don't know if you want to pull up a mock draft or something like that. Are tell me the guys that you get and that you don't get or like, don't get that they're not higher and don't get that they are high? Who like? What names to you in this process? As a very casual NFL fan, sure ring out to you.
I don't get any of the quarterbacks outside of Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. That's it. I don't I don't get the fascination with the others.
You don't get the fascination with Zach. Like Zach Wilson had a really nice year, he had a great year.
Now he had a great year, he had a great year. I still don't get it. I think it would be awesome. It may not make total sense to reunite Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase, but as Robert said, receiver is a position of need, and I think it would be a cool union to bring those two back together. So that's interesting to me. That's just sort of narrative though, that's narrative. Yeah, it's it's not, you know, necessarily a gets versus not gets. I know that running backs don't get drafted that highly.
I love Nagie Harris. So I love Nagie Harris, and I think he's going to be a monster at the next level because, as I think we said on the show, I feel like just this past year we got more introduced to the moves that Naji Harris has, sure and O, but like was given that chance to be more of an all purpose back exactly fully weaponized in the SARK system. Yeah, he's got serious moves, and I think he's going to be a force at the next level for many years to come.
Yeah, to me, this is all half baked. My theory is about NFL and college value. It's what are the things that you can do, not the singular thing that you can do, Like for Najie Harris, it's what is it that you can do as a receiver as well as a running back as the NFL heads to a more open place offensively, and that you're you're hunting for mismatches if you're an offensive coordinator. So if you get Najie Harris on an outside linebacker or something, that becomes
a problem. And so for offensive lineman, sure, it's great to be able to, you know, protect the quarterback. It's great to be able to move defensive lineman the other direction, But like, what are you doing in the open field if you're called upon on us? You know, what are what are large dudes doing in terms of small dude activity and what are smaller dudes during in terms of larger dude activity. Are you a safety who can rush
the quarterback? Are you Derwin James? That to me is where like the unicorns, special players are are the guys that can do multiple things on an extremely high level. That's fascinating. That's why I brought up Isaiah Simmons. That's why we bring up Kyle Pitts because you know he can be an inline blocker if asked to be, but
also he's an unguardable threat in the passing game. So that is fascinating to see not just who is valued, but why they're valued and what can they do at three different elite or responsible actions than more so than the players are like, yeah, I can, I can run off tackle and that's sort of what I do. And I think that's that's where we're heading from a football perspective, is what is the what is the total bag of tricks that I possess. That's fascinating.
Yeah, I also think that Micaeh Parson should go higher than what I've seen in a lot of recent mock drafts. And again, I know means am I an NFL analyst here right. I think he's the best linebacker in the draft, and I'd be surprised if he fell to Like, gosh, I'm looking at one that's got him at twenty, that would stun me if he failed that far.
I'm looking right now. I mean, it's a pretty fun draft. It's interesting to me to see Jalen Wattle and DeVante Smith. DeVante Smith as accomplished as he was behind Jalen Waddle, who seemed like more of a specialized player, I mean an incredible specialized player, but DeVante Smith was just unguardable. Now it's the size thing, But I don't know, as May's mentioned it, just it seems like he's going to succeed and be looked at as an exception because it's
so difficult when he's that thin. But he was playing against SEC corners like he is in a position to have the experience to succeed. People love your Notre Dame linebacker a w SU Carmoa, Sue Caromo. Yeah, yeah, not a huge linebacker, but crazy athletic and productive.
Had a really good year, really really good year.
Was all over the place. No, it's it is fascinating, especially and he mentioned Christian Darasol like I could not I knew the name. I couldn't tell you that he was a first round pick versus a third round pick. And it's just because Virginia Tech has been difficult to watch for a couple of years, so I haven't been watching their offensive lineman too closely, so they haven't been
playing too many huge games. But no, some of those guys, like I remember Rashaan Slater a couple of years ago, popped the Northwestern tackle who sat out this past year. But man, there are some names in here I'm like, oh, man, this is you're rolling into the second round, and you know we're seeing god whom I seeing the second round that I remember just being like Jalen Mayfield was really good for Michigan. They're just it's it seems like and it's this way every year for me. You're like, man,
this guy's a third round pick. He was good in college. Then I realize they're all good in college.
It's yeah, it's a it's a sneaky good tight end draft too. Kyle Pitts of course, is chief among them, but Baby Gronk Pat Fryarmuth also in this draft. Brevin Jordan from Miami. Also in this draft. You've got a whole list of guys who are I think potentially playmakers coming out of that tight end spot. So I don't know, right in soliverbal at gmail dot com, let us know your thoughts on who you like who you don't like, because we said, well, we'll do a show on Thursday.
We'll have some draft angle to it.
It's the only thing to talk of Notre Dame guys in here in the top like three hundred yeah on a Notre Dame guys.
Yeah.
Along the offensive line, along that defensive front. Fascinating.
Building a winner, Dan, that's what they're doing.
I guess, so hard for me to argue.
Big Thanks to our guest of honor today, Robert Mays from The Athletic. We will be back on Thursday. In the meantime, going out to our website sliverbal dot com, check out our patreon at verballers dot com, and follow along on social media for that Go there, Dan Rubinstein for myself, Tie Hildebrandt, We'll talk to you all soon. In the meantime, Stay solid, peace
MHM.