Welcome to the solid verbo.
I'll that for me.
I'm a man, I'm forty.
I've heard so many players say, well, I want to be happy.
You want to be happy for Dake Edo State?
Is that?
Whoo whoom?
And Dan and Tie welcome back to the solid verbal boys and girls. My name is Ty Hildebrand. Joinning me from away over there and beautiful in sunny in southern California, raving out the pandemic in that California. Son, my man, Dan Rubisteine, Sir, how are you?
Ty?
It's raining at the moment, but spirits remain sunny inside my heart and soul. Because one, I'm connected with you to talk about another weird, fun, interesting, large game from college football lore or whatever word I'm looking for. And two I'm I'm okay. You know, I can't complain. This is a it's a strange time, but I'm happy to
be doing this. And I have a lot of thoughts, not just about the two thousand and three BCS Championship game between Miami and Ohio State, but just the two thousand and two season in general, the context of what was going on during the college football season and the world at large, and I got to tell you Tie before you start plugging away at various places that you can find us doing other things.
The teas here is, I was furious.
This game going back on YouTube and rewatching this game because everybody remembers the game basically for I guess two reasons because of something really really bad if you just like the human body, and two really really bad if you don't like to see controversy and a huge college football game. But in fact, everything about this game and season was a lot larger than that, and I am very excited Tye to get into it with you.
All Right, Well, we'll get to Dan's furious Bradley in just a moment, but before we go any further, don't forget to follow us out there on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook. We started doing some video stuff. We're going to continue doing some video stuff. Obviously. Those social media channels is where you can find out about it. First.
If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, you can do so anywhere you get your podcasts, And if you want to participate in a conversation with other verballers, you can do so at solid Verbal dot reddit dot com. The subreddit commandeered by our good friend Peter Hoffman, who does such a good job keeping that conversation going. As Dan said, today we are hopping in the DeLorean setting the date for January third, two thousand and three. It was the
two thousand and three Tostitos Fiesta Bowl. It doubled as the BCS National Championship game between Miami and Ohio State. Interestingly enough, January third was a Friday in two thousand and three, Dan.
I like that It's a date night college football tie, a little after New Year's Maybe the hangovers have worn off, and you get some takeout, you grab some beers, and you watch the National Championship on a Friday night. I don't hate it. It's not going to be good. It's not gonna be as good for ratings as a Monday night game.
But I sort of liked that. Where were you in life on January third, two thousand and three, So.
I would have been in the middle of my sophomore year of college, and more specifically geographically, I was on winter break and watching this game from the bedroom of an ex girlfriend who was in the room. I don't think she was even in the room. I don't think she cared about Big East football. But it was on one of those small combo TV VCRs. So this is squarely for everybody pretty much PREHD, but especially for me.
Yeah, that's at four x three magic right there. Oh yeah, I was watching this game in my friend Dave's baby. We called it the Dave Cave at the time. It was beautiful. Shout out Dave Cave. Shout out Dave k had a pool table, had a poker table. I was in the middle of my junior year up at Penn State. Everyone was home on break and I remember watching this game.
Like you, I was a huge college football fan, right, you got to be to do a show like this for as long as we have, but it was a formative moment for me when Willis McGahee got hurt.
Yeah, we've had some tough, major televised injuries, and that was one of the first I could remember. Obviously, we had the Louisville basketball one a few years ago. I remember one at USC Ryan Podrell and an ankle, but on a stage like this, and you know, going back, I was not old enough for Joe Thaisman in the eighties, but on a stage like this with the replays that were shown, and we'll get to this when we get to the fourth quarter. It's a rough television tie, and
thank god it was an HD. Thank god rough television. It felt like it was CGI and not real life. I remember that.
Injury seventeen years later like it was yesterday, and it had an impact on me. It really did. It was sort of like the first time I feel like I had seen an injury that was quite as gruesome as that, and it just stuck with me. Not to mention all the build up to this game and Miami entering this game as this gorilla and Ohio State being a really good team. There was all this pomp and circumstance around
this football game. But that McGahee injury. We'll get into, as you said, the fourth quarter here momentarily and talk a little bit more about it. It was called by Keith Jackson the Legend and Dan Fouts as the color commentator. Lynn Swan and Todd Harris down on the sidelines. Also had John Saunders and Terry Bowden working as studio hosts in this football game.
Dan An All Pacific Northwest Booth, Keith Jackson, Wazoo, Dan Fouts Oregon. I like that didn't even realize that until just now, and pregame was a little dated. We can get into the broadcast and what we sort of gleaned from everything during the game, but I think it was a Cal Ripkin junior coin toss. I think cal Ripken. I don't know what his stats were at this time, but it feels like he was still active. I could not tell you when cal Ripkin retired.
Tie.
You could have told me two thousand and six. You could tell me twenty fourteen he would still start for the Orioles. Let's be honest.
Are they bad? Okay?
Yeah, before we get into the game itself and the pregame, and I'm sure there's terrible music going into this game. These two programs are two very different points. Even though they're both undefeated and the clear choice for this national championship game, Ohio State is sort of an upstart. The John Cooper era was fine for a long stretch, but he goes to ten and one against Gary Mueller, Lloyd Carr and Michigan and Miami is the defending national champion.
You mentioned them, the big gorilla in the stadium, and they just run away from Nebraska the year before Nebraska team that, Let's be honest, should not have even been in the game. Nobody looks back. It's on the at Nebraska was the right selection there. No, they shouldn't have been in the game, and they played like it. Against Miami, Miami just trounced them. And then throughout the year, Miami had a couple close calls pitt Florida State that was
a wide left game for Miami in that win. And Ohio State is sort of eking by teams as they learn to win. It's sort of a crawl before you walk, walk before you run, and they're just learning to win, but they're pulling out close ones.
You have the Holy.
Buckeye game against Purdue to Michael Jenkins, a fourth down crazy pass from Craig Crenzl to Michael Jenkins, and I think there were a couple of Wisconsin was a close one. They just they have this very I want to say lro season. That's how I would have described this team and this program going into the game. If we had a show back then.
For It's fair four games in the two thousand and two regular season where Ohio State won and did not score twenty points nineteen to fourteen at Wisconsin, thirteen to seven at home, over Penn State ten to six, and a bit of a miracle game on the road in West Lafayette over Purdue, and fourteen to nine at home
in the game over the Michigan Wolverines. So, you know, one thing that came to mind for me as I did the research here was like, can you imagine a situation in which Ohio State would win four games and not score twenty points in twenty twenty? Like, that's incomprehensible to me given where we're at in college football right now.
There were a lot of things, by the way that I saw in this game that I can't fathom being part of the current day and age, but not scoring more than twenty points and still winning seemed like, whoa, that's that's a different era altogether.
Yeah, we've seen close calls. We've seen teams that generally generate a lot of points and go on to this caliber of season have those down games where they win seventeen fourteen or ten twelve, or obviously famously nine to six. But four times is a lot of times to eke it out against not great competition. That year in the
Big Ten, there was certainly talent. If you look around the conference Ohio State didn't have electric players on offense, perhaps outside of Maurice claret Craig Crenzel wasn't the reason Ohio State was winning. It was you know, Chris Gamble was probably a big reason because he was going both ways. But this was not an Ohio State team with the type of talent. And I'm sure you have who went on to the NFL in this game right in front of you, but this was not This was not an
offense that led the way for Ohio State. You look at the Big Ten that year and you know, huge names. Larry Johnson at Penn State led the way for the Nitney Lions. Charles Rogers was you know, borderline unguardable from Michigan State.
Yeah, incredible at Michigan State. Yeah.
Brad Banks to Dallas Clark at Iowa, Anthony Davis at Wisconsin. They're you know, big names, big yardage, big points, and Ohio State players. Even though Maurice Clarett was both really really good, he was also a workhorse. He wasn't a home run hitter every week, but even when he wasn't, he was churning out first downs and helping to pace this offense. And if not for Maurice Clarett. They definitely lose at least one game.
Oh for sure. We'll get into clarette here. Yeah, as we talk about this specific game. As you said, though, there was a ton of talent on the field for this particular game. And I got this from the Columbus Post dispatch. Forty three starters that night, and you double count Chris Gamble obviously because he played both ways. Thirty seven of them were chosen in some NFL draft, not all the same one, but eighty six percent chosen in the NFL draft, and a bunch of backups in this
football game were also chosen. I think one hundred people participated in this football game. Fifty eight of them played in at least one NFL game, and eighteen of them went on to be first round draft picks. So you know, Will Smith, Chris Gamble, Michael Jenkins, AJ Hawk, and Bobby Carpenter were young but on those teams, as well as Nick Mangold, who had a cup of coffee in this
football game along the offensive line. But everyone knows about Miami when they think about talent in this day and age, Andre Johnson, Sean Taylor, Kellen Winslow, Jonathan Vilma, Vince Wilfork, who's a monster college.
By the way, Matt Wilford in this game is a rotation player, doesn't start. The best modern nos tackle in football doesn't even start in this game.
And he's young.
I think he's a freshman this year. He's early on in his Miami career, but he's inserted early on and makes like three enormous players like, oh, it's just a rotation nose tackle for Miami.
Yeah, cool cool.
Also Entrell Roll, Yeah, I mean that second general, Kelly Jennings Andrell Roland, Sean Taylor in the Miami secondary throwing into that even if you're more talented and more accomplished than Craig Krenzel. Not super fun sounding tie.
No, no, no no. Miami came into this game though, in a much different situation. They were defending national champions right, Yes, they're.
Defending national champs and by and large, and I mentioned this, they kill a lot of teams. They beat up on Virginia Tech. That's their final game of the season. I think they dropped fifty or sixty points and just demolish them. Willis mcgahee's starting in the backfield. Ken Dorsey by the way, great Tom Hammond game, because I think Dorsey was a double major and Craig Krenzel was molecular biology.
So you would have brought up that molecular biology major and GPA Todd Harris during this game and during the broadcast had a little quip, a little quip about this that was very hammid esk but he was just a sideline reporter at the time. Brought that up doublet game on the line, of course, that's when he would have brought that up.
Yeah. So, yeah, there was the cast of characters. The cast of characters in this game was exceptional. The broadcast, I think got started out with Limp Biscuits rolling, rolling, Rolling.
Yep, you had a wonderful highlight package of two very successful seasons by Miami and Ohio State laid down on a comfy bed of rollin by Limp Biscuit. Yeah, so there was there was suitable hype. There was.
You know, obviously when you have Keith Jackson Dan Fouts in this air in the booth, that's a big deal. No no controversy going into this game. It wasn't the following year, I believe, when Auburn goes undefeated and is left out. It was Miami and Ohio State both undefeated. Iowa finishes eleven and one. That's the Brad Banks team. They end up losing to USC in the Orange Bowl. Usc As Carson Palmer who wins the Heisman. David Green is in one of his eleven seasons for Georgia. Darren
Sprowl's completely wrecking shop. For Kansas State, they finished in the top ten. Jason Gesser and Wazoo, Chris Sims in Texas I mentioned Larry Johnson and Penn State. Notre Dame wins ten games this season.
Hi, they won ten games and then got destroyed by Philip Rivers. I want to say in NC State and the Gator Bowl. Okay, fair enough, it was a good year actually for quarterbacks. The Oregon team that I want to say, they went six and six, seven and five something like that. They end up in the Seattle Bowl tie. I'm sure you have a lot of precious Seattle Bowl memory. We all remember our first Seattle Bowl.
They got beaten pretty handily by Wake Forest in the Seattle Bowl. They lost, God, they lost comfortably I think to Oregon State. In the Civil War, this was it was a Jason Fife taking over for Joey Harrington year and outside Ontario Smith, mister Wizzenader himself was the highlight of this Oregon team, but not a fun year to be a Duck fan.
Specifically with regard to this football game. Miami and Ohio State descended upon Sun Devil Stadium for the Fiesta Ball. At the time, this was long before we had the stadium in Glendale and they were competing for the Circuit City BCS Trophy. Daniel, hell yeah, Circuit City Hell yeah. Or service to the State of the Art. We also had a PlayStation two team comparison graphic that Dan Fouts was happy to commentate over.
Did you ever see Will Ferrell's Dan Fouts Dan Fouts Will Ferreld Dan shouts and it's incredible. It's he's just he plays Dan Fouts as if Dan Fouts is just coasting.
Just he's like, that's right. Was this the skit where he talked about like the team that has the most points is going to win the game? Yeah? I think so. I think it was just the most generic by the book. Yeah, it was great. So looking back now, just from a big picture twenty twenty perspective, Yeah, what are some of your observations of not Miami and Ohio State and the way this game shook out, but just the game of football.
So this is right ahead of the sort of beginning of the mainstream spread revolution. What Urban Meyer is doing at Utah, we have some early air raidingis with Cliff Kingsbury as the quarterback, I think completes almost five hundred passes. In second place was like three hundred and fifty. So we're seeing the slow you're seeing, you know, the percolation, some sizzling bubbles of modern offense. You know Rex Grossman at Florida, they're opening things up. Obviously still in the
fun and gun. This is I think right ahead of the ron Zook era. Timmy Chang and Hawaii are throwing the ball all around, so there is at least there are early bubbles of modernization. But what Ohio State does to get here is defense and ball control and trying to not turn the ball over. And what Miami does to get here is relying on its incredible stable of talent.
And it worked for both of them getting here. But ultimately what made me furious was probably the word discipline or lack thereof, when you actually watch the game.
I was blown away by how big the players were. Yeah, it feels like the players were bigger, at least wearing bigger pads. Yeah, the pads were huge. The pads made them all look squared off, like they were Abrams tanks. It was ridiculous. But maybe because it was pre spread era and defensive players didn't need to be as versatile and agile, maybe they could be bigger. I don't know,
but it it felt like these guys were bigger. There was certainly no targeting, But that being said, the thing that really stood out was just how enormous everyone looked. Matt Wilhelm for like, he looked like a perfect sphere with all the padding he had, hit the neck roll, gigantic shoulder pads, a bunch of Michelin men out there. I mean, you mentioned PS two tie.
If you remember was it NFL game day, was that one of the big that was an NFL game day was the game where you could just loft it up right, But if you remember what the players in that game look like, they looked like tanks. They were all squared off and it wasn't unrealistic. That was just the look.
This was back before Jim Tressel was gray. It was what his second year at Ohio State, second year for both head coaches, much like the last game we did. Actually, Yeah, had a little bit of a Ned Flanders feel to him, didn't he. I don't think it was just limited to this. I mean he didn't have the mustache, but he had the sweater, he had the Koif hair, sort of blatter boy air about him, the glasses, that's true, but very proper on the sidelines, and had led a very successful
campaign to that point. What was your take on this football game?
Dan?
How did you feel watching this after all these years?
I actually was really entertained, even though it made me furious and there were things that I didn't like about it. The Craig Krenzell thing annoyed me. The fact that the fact that I had to sit through a national championship game watching Craig Crenzell attempt to run an offense was rough.
Craig Krenzel led the team in rushing. He had eighty one yards. He had more rushing yardage than Maurice Clorette.
I kept thinking when watching the Ohio State offense that Craig Krenzel looks like what I would look like if you were like to put me in charge of a chili's without any notice, put me in charge of a jamba juice where it's just like, I don't know where the strawberries are. I don't know where you plug in the blenders. I'm gonna smash all these peaches and kiwis and put them in a cup. I understand that's not what a smooth he's supposed to look like, but I'm
just doing what I can. That's what the Craig crensil experience felt like to me.
But he so. He was nine for no. Seven for twenty one okay, and two interceptions. Not great as a thrower, but had eighty one yards on the ground and two touchdowns. And to his credit, he had some bigger moments in this game. It wasn't flawless by any stretch, but there were some big moments. We talk about often on the show how guys win moments. Crenzell won some moments in this game. Clarette won some moments in this game.
So Ohio State stays in the game early without being able to do anything on offense, because early on Will Smith might be the best player on the field, He's unblockable. He's getting to Ken Dorsey, and the Miami offensive rhythm
is totally off. He connects a little bit with Andre Johnson, who, by the way, Andre Johnson, a name may be lost to time because of the way his NFL career sort of ended pretty quickly, but Andre Johnson and I think it was Larry Fitzgerald played in the same game in the season as did Andre Johnson and Kwon Bolden for the Florida State game. He was unguardable in this game, and I'm sure he was unguardable all season long.
And he couldn't. You couldn't guard Andrew Johnson. He was six I think they said six' three two fifteen to two. Twenty, yes maybe not. Totally i'm just, heavy but just unguardable in college.
Unguardable AND i Thought Ohio state largely did a really good job of taking away the. Sidelines and this Is Mark dantonio calling The Ohio state. Defense they completely Stuff willis mcgahey and The miami running, game which really did pace. Them as good As Ken dorsey, was he was WHAT i think would be come to come to be known as a game, manager where it's just like get it To Kellen, winslow get it To Andre. Johnson just don't
make mistakes and Let willis mcgahe pace. Things AND i don't know if you went back and watched any Of willis McGahee from two thousand and, two deceptive speed and would have thrived if he had come along really in any. Era but if he had played for a shotgun power running team in like twenty, fourteen he would have put up twenty three hundred. Yards he Was he was a downhill, runner and he was bigger THAN i.
Remember cut and, go cut and. Go he was great at, That, yeah he. Was he was much bigger THAN i. Remember so it Was Clarette clarett was a big. Kid, yeah oh, friend you, know the shoulder pads made him look. Bigger but he was a big boy and had some moments in this. Game the final score here was thirty one to twenty, four went to double. Overtime i'm not going to lie and say that it was an exciting first maybe three quarters of this. Game it was a lot
of defense and a lot of. Turnovers we had seven total turnovers in this, game five By. Miami perhaps that's why they lost to By Ohio. State the other thing THAT i did want to call Out, dan you Mentioned Craig. Crenzel Ken dorsey was thirty eight and one going into this football. Game oh they really did point In, yeah
hammered that. Home AND i remember watching this game at the time, Thinking, Wow Ken dorsey's really, Underrated like he's not getting the kind of love he deserves FROM nfl scouts because he's been so good in college and this is somebody who's going to be a surefire pro for a long long he. Wasn't turns out the scouts are right About Ken. Dorsey and if you watched the first quarter of this, game AS i did before one of Our instagram live, feeds you came away pretty impressed With Ken.
Dorsey the other three quarters not so much turn the ball over a bunch of. Times he had a good fourth quarter ish, yeah ish. YEAH a lot of unintentional back shoulder throws by both of these quarterbacks in this football. Game is that fair to?
Say, Yeah, Well Ken dorsey's second quarter might. Be i'm not going to go through every quarterback who's played in A National championship game since two. Thousand Ken dorsey's second quarter two picks and a fumble stripsack? Fumble is that the worst from.
A quarterback in the modern? Era modern ish modern?
Era and by the, way the game is tied going into overtime at. Seventeen do you know how many Yards Ohio state had to put together to score seventeen points their combined scoring drive?
Yardage what it? WAS i don't. Know i'm going to guess like one seventy.
Five So Ohio state scores two touchdowns and they kick a field, goal a forty four yard field goal to get in position to score those. Points seventeen yard, drive fourteen yard, drive one yard. Drive, wow my rudimentary math says it's a thirty two yards of scoring yardage For Ohio state in this. Game good teams take advantage of. Opportunities Ohio state took advantage of. Opportunities miami gifted them this.
Game and so if you are going to look back in this game and say THAT pi should never have been called and it, Was miami was.
Robbed, no, no, no, NO i don't.
Know miami gave this game away a lot earlier than arguably a referee. Did and so that's what made me, furious because When miami could move the. Ball it was largely down the middle From Ken dorsey And Kellen winslow had an amazing. Game AND i think we'll talk About Ken Kellen winslow With Bruce, feldman who was there and after we discussed this game, ourselves for his sort of full. Context but this game was taken From miami by Both
miami and The Ohio state. Defense so that's why the in retrospect THAT pi changed, everything even THOUGH i don't think it WAS. Pi i'm not on board with that.
Narrative, Okay, well you mentioned, defense AND i am on board with that. Narrative both defenses were, incredibly very very. Good, yeah and you need look no further than what both of these teams did on the. Ground so we talked about, McGahee we talked About clarett mcgaye had three point four yards per. Carry colorette had just two yards per. Carry clorette had some big moments in this football, game Which
i'm going to bring up here just a little. Bit but the defenses were, very very stout in this football. Game Ken dorsey was under pressure the entire, game certainly as we got into. Overtime Craig krenzel was running for his. Life did you see the?
Hits there was a graphic was like the number of knockdowns and sacks and hits Like Craig crenslatt deep into the fourth quarter had been hit like twenty eight. Times it was crazy over and it was a relentless. Pressure and the fact that he was able to stand in. There he took a hit From Jonathan, vilma which would have posted that On.
Twitter Race. GAME i posted that On.
Twitter Jonathan villma lifted it like he Lifted Craig crenzel so. High it was like a child being lifted to dunk his or her first basketball and driven into the. Ground the fact that he was able to keep getting. UP i JUST i tiped my audio hat To Craig krenzel because that's it's one of the guttiest performances from a quarterback on a.
Stage this. Bick miami leads after the first quarter seven to. Zero Ohio state comes. Back they take advantage of some of those turnovers three turnovers again in the second. Quarter they score fourteen. Points they lead fourteen to seven going in at. Halftime as the teams come out in the second, Half miami draws a little bit. Closer after three, quarters
they trail seventeen to. Fourteen, yeah a nice run from a game headed into the final stanza and Then miami kicks a field goal to tie it up at seventeen before we go into, overtime seventeen seventeen after four. QUARTERS i watched this game and was incredibly bored by those first four. Quarters it's it's tough not to.
BE i mean the fact That Ohio state's offense was set up to just give the ball To Maurice claret without a lot of creativity and not Trusting Craig krenzel at one, point so that on the field goal drive where they got they had one yard of offense and they kick a forty four yard field Goal Mike, nugent by the, way come, ON nfl kicker for a long. Time third and twelve from The miami, thirty and you're, thinking, okay they just got a this is this is a big.
Game you got to you gotta get a big play, here draw out of shotgun For Craig krenzel for like six. Yards it was Just you're, right it was a very boring because of those. Turnovers, NOW i will say one of The craig crenzil interceptions was such a terrible decision that if you're not entertained By Craig crenzel rolling out pump faking like three times then launching it forty yards
down the field into double, coverage you don't like. Football you also don't like football if you can't Admire Sean taylor then tipping that ball to himself as he's falling, backwards as he's trained back all the. Time, yeah all time college football. Safety so at least we have some
moments like. That you can pre s the talent of The Ohio state defense and especially that secondary With Chris gamble And Will, smith you, know looking unblockable upfront for The, Buckeyes but you have to appreciate individual moments more than you can the back and forth and the talent and the creativity and the punch counter punch, element because just wasn't really there.
Well and this is part of what makes college football and the sport of football as a whole so unique in the world of. Sports, yeah the schemes were so, different so. Different when was the last time you saw A power five team run a pro set offense and the quarterback wasn't in the shock Like Ohio state did that multiple times in this football. Game it was just a different.
Era we've seen it From stanford a little, recently but even they've evolved. Exactly so in looking back at this, game LIKE i remember all the scuttle butt about how this is one of the Great miami teams of all, time even a couple of years removed from the football, game not Just miami teams but teams in, general with all the talent they had on the, field and in watching, back it's just impossible to compare. Eras it's impossible because
schemes are, different players were conditioned. Differently you almost can't compare this era Of miami football to any other football team that we see in the Modern, age what we call the Modern age now seventeen years, later because of how different the schemes. Were it was just a totally different football game to watch. Back and you, KNOW i GUESS i felt bad about the fact THAT i was bored watching, it but to a large EXTENT i. Was there was an extreme lack of creativity compared to what
we're used to seeing On saturdays. Now SO i like to the, Defenses i'll come away and SAY i like the. Defenses and even though there is you, know watching what twenty twenty eyes isn't fair to this era at, all there was an element Of miami and this goes back to all of the success they had over THE i guess the fifteen years leading up to this. Game they were built around speed over. SIZE i think ahead of a lot of other. Teams they had, normal you, know
guys who were the size of safeties playing. Linebacker they had some guys who are typically the size of linebackers playing defensive. End they were built around, speed and they looked like the more, Athletic they looked like the more confident team you. Watch you, Know Roscoe parrish who was the number two receiver Alongside Andre johnson Or Kellen winslow at his, size being as fast as he, Was miami
building around speed was ahead of their. Time certainly they have the recruiting advantages of being In South, florida but speedover size was certainly something that you can, Say, Okay miami is the if not or is one of if not the pioneer about that. Notion and so THAT i came away with That we're just like it was a well called defense and it wasn't just one dude making a tackle in the open. Field there were so many fast dudes on That miami defense that they was just
it was gang tag all over the. Place SO i will say that has held up really.
Well before we go any, Further, dan what else was going on On january, third two thousand, three not just in, football but like, Culturally i'm glad you.
ASKED i had a radio SHOW kwva on The Morning. Wood that Was Morning. Wood that was what it was. Called more broadly, speaking because we Mentioned Limp, biscuit the top song In america Is Lose. YOURSELF i MEAN i listened to it before every. Show, yeah it comes through tie. Work it From Missy, Misdemeanor Elliott Air Force. Ones it was a decent enough era for extremely dumb pop songs underneath it, all no. Doubt movie, wise it was actually a good Week lord of The rings Two, towers a
Huge lord of The rings. Guy But i've seen. It it's, fine catch me if you can as an all timer for. Me that was number two two. Weeks, notice if you're in A Sandy bullock rom coms AND i Got Harry potter drum line Tie so It's, actually there's a college football ish movie in the top ten during the.
Line was very. UNDERRATED i love that.
Movie it was.
Good Pete, pablo great. Job and we'll point Out Joe millionaire PREMIERED i think really close to this, game maybe like a week after On fox and that was a.
Show, YEAH i love that. Show Evan. Marriott, yeah watched every second of. It so, yeah it was that was two thousand and three before we get into. Overtime, yeah who was the best player on the. Field i'm gonna Ask bruce when we have him, on but who was who was the best player on the? Field because there's like two different ways that you can look at. It you can look at it from a talent, perspective, right who just seemed like they had more? Talent Like Kellen
winslow is a really a really strong. Answer Kellen winsoll was unguardable in this. Game he rose to the. Occasion, yeah you go with pure talent With Kellen winslow Or Andre johnson or Even Sean taylor who had what two INTERCEPTIONS i think in this, game or do you go to go with someone Like clarette who's very, good very, good but one moments didn't stand out with any kind
of pyrotechnic offensive. Display but one Moment's Craig. Krenzel you, know seven of twenty one passing two, picks wasn't, great but led the team in rushing and won some moments in his own. Right which direction do you go with that, Question i'm gonna Go.
Vilma i'm going to go the sort of heartbeat in the middle of That miami. Defense he was all over the. Place AND i Mentioned Craig crenzel taking the abuse that he. Did there were five shots From, vilma so he's all over the. Place they completely Stopped, clarette who had been the heartbeat of The Ohio state, offense and just in terms of pure talent and what he was asked to, do what he was asked to do in coverage and largely just Keeping miami focused on stopping the run From Ohio.
State to, me that was the dude in the. Game Sean taylor made, plays certainly the early. On Will smith made a ton of plays and kept a ton of pressure on The miami offensive, line which Prevented Duck kanes from getting in any sort of. Rhythm BUT i think It's. Vilma looking back on the, game he was who really popped for me.
From a talent, perspective the. ANSWERS i mean you could list a number of people For.
MIAMI i mean Trust gamble, too but they just on, offense they weren't doing.
Much Sean taylor stood out to. Me vilma had an incredible, game just was in the backfield the entire. Game BUT i THINK i Go corette. Here Interesting corette had to play of the game when he stripped an interception. Away yeah that was the second, half in the third. QUARTER i want to say he had some big runs, late even though he didn't have the stats to really back it.
Up but LIKE i said, earlier was bigger THAN i. Remembered it really seemed to just find a couple key moments late in that game where he made his presence. Felt and he had a huge year that. Year you, Know Maurice colerette was a big. Name but in this, game in, particular the stats weren't, there the moments, were and, those to, me after watching back after all these, years those were really what stood out in a game, that for for again four quarters WAS i felt pretty.
BORING i totally forgot about that, play the clarette. STRIPPING i think it was A miami's. SAFETY i don't REMEMBER i Was Sean taylor or. Not But Craig crenzel finally gets the ball downfield successfully and then the next, player the player a couple plays after, that throws a pick in the end. Zone brought out of the end zone forty fifty. Yards Maurice clorette is the one tackling the then ball carrier and strips him and gets the ball
back For Ohio. State that was Just you're. Right it was probably the most impressive single play of the.
Game so then we go to. Overtime the game is tied at. Seventeen, yeah and that's when this game gets really. Interesting we Had Ken dorsey getting hurt in double overtime after a shot From Matt. Wilhelm we had a backup From miami coming in to complete a pass to a full. Back no. Less but this, GAME i think for a great number of us who go back and watch or at least remember, it are going to remember a very controversial pass interference call that went Against miami And Glenn.
Sharp was it or was it? Not pass?
Interference, so AS i mentioned, EARLIER i think it WAS i think it WAS. PI i think the ball and who is THE dB Glenn? Sharp Glenn, SHARP i think My sharp and the ball arrived at the same, time AND i think it Was it was far too close in that moment to definitively. Call then it was, said, oh it was holding and it was a late. FLAG i thought it. Was it was really poorly. Done i'm not big on haranguing about, officials because a lot goes
into a game beyond that just single. PLAY i thought it, was BUT i don't think it means that we should look back and Say miami was. Jobbed you turn the ball over five, times you have, opportunities so it's tough to.
Win when you turn the ball over five, times and it just really don't deserve to. Win the fact that they were still in the game at that point in time totally a bit of a miracle unto. Itself but here's what. Happens it's fourth and. Three Craig krenzel tries to throw a ball To Chris. Gamble it bounces off his. Hands they call pass interference On Glenn. SHARP i don't think it was pass. Interference really really tough callah in that spot in the, Game but they get a fresh set of.
Downs and by the, way by the, way The miami, sideline the flag came in so late and under the radar that The miami they rushed and started pouring onto the field in that, Moment, yeah.
They rush the. Field Ohio state gets the ball, fresh set of. Downs Craig crenzel runs in for one yard. Touchdown third. Down, yeah ties the game up at twenty. Four in double over, time they get the ball. First in the next overtime, period they score a. Touchdown miami does not. Correct Maurice corrett scores a game when he. Touchdown that's all she, wrote thirty one two twenty. Four the winning streak is. Over Ohio state is your improbable national.
Champion and on top of all of, that we have a moment in the fourth quarter that completely leaves you to this day and me to this day in a little bit of. Horror and It's willis McGahee and in what seems like an ordinary run and an ordinary, tackle he sort of has his legs taken out from underneath him by An Ohio state. Player is just. Wrecked his knee is completely. Destroyed it goes the wrong. Way he tears three, ligaments.
A L mcl and.
WHAT i don't even know what the other LCLOR, plcl all of the acronus ski and he IS i mean for this even Though Andre johnson is the clear top talent for this, offense just what he looks like compared to other people who play his. Position, well it's McGahee is the one touching the ball and pacing this offense and is an incredible talent and one OF i think the year before it was, McGahee portois And Frank gore all on the same on the same.
Backfield this is just. Stupid these are.
Consters, yeah it's, comical and so mcgahe's that. Dude they Bringing Jared payton to come in at the, end but what that must do to a team. Emotionally i'm not saying this is losing the game For, miami but to be able to gather yourself to drive down to tie the, GAME i Just Ohio state weathering all of this on a neutral field is so impressive to. Me they took advantage of. Opportunities but, man what the emotion that must have been coursing through the, sideline The miami sideline throughout
this fourth, quarter throughout the. GAME i can't even imagine they. Were they were very well. Coached Ohio state was to play defensively as well as they, did and to hang around in the manner that they did was it was. Notable and obviously they won the national championpire thirty one to twenty.
Four big moment for The. Buckeyes they had been waiting for this. Forever Jim tressel finally got the job. Done a dramatic game in that it went to double overtime and they competed arguably against a much, much much more talented.
Competitor, yeah And Ohio state would eventually become even Under Jim tressel talent wise. COMPARABLE i don't know if they have that MANY nfl, players but they are a, top top talented. Team they just weren't in this moment in that. Place this was a scrappy, upstart and as much As Ohio state can be a scrappy upstart that they're surviving what they do during the regular season and they just have to ride defense and field position and hope for the.
Best and it worked. Out if this game is played ten, Times miami is probably winning eight of, them, Right, yeah. PROBABLY i WATCHED i also watched this GAME i mentioned the word furious both of these teams when they would call play action passes.
A lot of the time it.
Worked they just didn't do it all that now seeing they're watching, us, like just do what works, more, please and they. Didn't and it just that second quarter From miami it. Was it was just brutal And i'm just not over. IT i can't believe it all happened so. Quickly two really bad passes and a strip.
Sack all?
Right?
Uh scale one to, Ten, yeah one being one of the worst games you've ever, watched ten being the. Best where do you put?
THIS i mean the fact that we get double overtime and the fact that we have these moments and we're on the edge of our. Seats that has to count for. Something even though the first four quarters, weren't you, know a thrill. Ride so seven and a half, eight IT'S i probably a little six point seven somewhere in. There, okay seven point.
Two we need we need a scale to grade some of these. Games we're gonna do more of.
THEM i can't Believe miami lost to a dufist Like Craig.
GRENZL i believe. It, Hi, yeah they can't. Either they can't, either all. Right we have droned on for far too, Long, yeah about what we felt and our perspective watching this game back in two thousand and. Three, sure as we've been doing with all of these, games we need the perspective of somebody who is in the, stadium.
All, Right and finally somebody who has spent far more time around The miami, program Around miami, football measuring different levels of swag throughout the. Decades our very good, Friend Bruce, Feldman were you at this? Game were you covering this? Game where were you in Early january two thousand and.
THREE i was at the, game AND i have a story THAT i didn't think about when you reached out to me until you started talking just.
Now. SO i am working in THE uspm magazine of In New York.
City at the, time not at the time of the, game but you, know at the time at that point of my, career and one of my colleagues of the magazine had put a literary agent in touch with me and, said, hey they know, you you're pretty connected In South, florida and would you be interested in doing A miami. Book they're not sure what it really, is but a book
About miami. Football remember the year Before miami ran through college football that, grade you, know two thousand and one, team and there was obviously a lot of heat Around miami and a lot of you, know it's just an interesting, program you know.
What let me think about. It, YES i would do.
It and so the game is going, on AND i remember the, overtime like they let them the print media be down on the field for like.
The last five minutes of the.
Game once it gets down to five, Minutes, well at that POINT i felt LIKE i had been you, know the game goes into overtime and are both all, overtimes AND i felt LIKE i was, on you, know on that side for an hour and a, half AND i just Remembered warren's staff was near. Me he had a he had like a white towel to just basically wipe the sweat, off AND i, remember you, know being near him and our side of the. Field for some, reason it WAS i was on The miami side was not very.
Packed like every Game i've gone to in the last ten, years that's a national title, game you, know it's like there's almost nowhere to. Stand, well for some, REASON i don't remember it being particularly crowded over. There now it might have been crowded on The Ohio state, side but not as you, know it wasn't really at that. Point and Uh so the game ends and it dawns on.
Me oh, man the book deal That i'm, Getting and at that POINT i DON'T i don't didn't know how much it was, for BUT i knew it was for more than five one thousand, dollars you, KNOW i knew it was probably you, know more than. THAT i was, like oh, man that's probably down the. Toilet oh, Shit and the thought in my head was, LIKE i don't bet on. SPORTS i feel LIKE i can't cover in, it but not That maybe like a, year maybe five years, EARLIER i used to do some freelance writing For Maximum.
MAGAZINE i don't even if maxim still exists by, way BUT i would do some sports stuff for, them AND i had done a story ON i.
Think it Was Lennox.
Lewis and it you, know it's like you're waiting for the story to.
Run, WELL i think it Was.
Lenox whoever it, was got knocked, out maybe By i've Seen blackman over like somewhere in the other half of the, world AND i didn't find out till the next, day AND i was, like you know, whatever and then it thought him was, like oh, man they're not going to pay me the whatever seven hundred and fifty dollars for that story because now it can't. Run AND i was, like it's LIKE i just bet on the fight and lost his Basic, yeah like in my in my you know head at the, time as like a person who's
thirty years. Old, well with The Ohio State miami, GAME i never thought about the book until right As i'm watching everybody run onto the field the second. Time obviously the first Time Miami kaks they. Won the second, Time i'm, like, WHOA i probably just lost a lot of.
Money that was my. Thought and it.
Didn't like it didn't like drop me to my knees or anything like. That BUT i was, like, whoa this just affected me in a way that no other game is going to affect.
Me so now.
Obviously it didn't BECAUSE i ended up writing the, Book but that was my first, thought and it was it was a very crazy game because they're, officiating and one of the things THAT i, THOUGHT i MEAN i thought.
About was, like people remember the end of the game in the late part of the. GAME i don't think they remember like the first half of the. Game it wasn't like the most riveting.
Game it wasn't Like texas or or any of these other games seen probably in the last five.
Years it was.
Different, well the, thing the thing that really came to mind for, Me bruce AND i went back and looked At Ohio state season back in two thousand and. Two there were four games where they didn't score twenty, points which is almost unfathomable given where we're at in college. Football most of these players are under, center the guys are, enormous huge shoulder. Pads it's just such a different. Game and it wasn't all that long. Ago.
NOW i, remember you, Know Craig kremszel, was you, know you want to talk about, like you, know they Just viespan just ran The TEXAS usc great game from you, know probably three years after this or two years after, This and it was Obviously lioner And bush And Vince young and he had these great quarterbacks and, everything And Ken.
Dorsey was a really really good quarterback At, miami and.
But kremsell WHAT i remembered most of them was Like Greig kremszell was, LIKE i don't know if he was a four zero, student but it felt like he. Was and he was a four h, student likely like biology or something. Like he was he was going to be a. Doctor he's going to be a scientist or, whatever and so he's very you, know he knew he was very. Smart, remember we had to do, something you, know the magazine had to do something.
As a, preview AND.
I wrote About Chris, gamble who was a great two way, player and just he Wasn't Rod woodson or he Wasn't Charles, woodson but he was really really.
Good but it was just, like except.
For clorette And, clarette became quite a subplot around that they were you, know it wasn't like These Ohio state teams where they're like dripping with like first round guys made good. Players but it wasn't the same you know kind Of Ohio. STATE i, mean credit To Jim, trussell he got that thing, rolling but it was it was obviously a well coached, team AND i think you're, right it was like they were one of those teams that
just grinded people. OUT i, mean they had really good linebackers and everything that you, know good, defense and they were certainly well. Coached but you, KNOW i think that was that was. IT i, MEAN i think they they surprised a lot people every step of the.
Way when you think about the, game do you think more about what the game ultimately meant and sort of the beginning of the end of, high high level success For miami and for the end Of Larry coker's career as A power five head, coach or do you think about the sort of more micro and the call at the, end the back and, forth the. Tension what do you think is the bigger lasting.
Legacy you, know the legacy part was like that was kind of the beginning of the downfall Of miami And Larry.
Cocher AND i used to work With Eric.
Adelson whose Wife Andrew, edelson still works AT espn dot. Com And eric's brilliant, Guy harvard guy. Everything he's worked at other places and now tis's journalism at. You he had said to me That Larry, cocher this is dumbing it. Down but he was, Like Larry cocher is probably too nice of a, guy and this thing is going to. Backslide AND i was fairly dismissive of BECAUSE i knew how well they were, recruiting AND i just, thought, yeah you, know he's got it.
Going all the players buy. In But eric was, right like in the, END i, mean.
The chemistry SID i got, sideways and you, know it was like they still had. Talent and like the next, YEAR i remember one of the few guys WHO i remember really you, know being comfortable talking after that game in the locker room Was Jared.
Peyton you, know he.
Grown up in the spot of others as a Legend Walter payton and, everything And jared ended up having Maybe Florida state it might have been the next year in The Orange, bowl And jared had the basically the best game of his. Career but he was one of the few people who could really come to terms with it that you, know after the, game AND i just, think you, know that program was enough funk almost like they have been enough funk since.
THEN i, mean it was just it really was a big. Change you, know you had.
You had some some of the elements of certainly like you, Know Kellen winslow is his own probably his own thirty for, thirty but you, know things just kind of you, know the next year where there was always, drama but there Was it was just, like you, KNOW i felt like it was hard for them to handle all that stuff and they just you, know it became a very much the most three and out program in college football because you had so many guys go three and, out and
they obviously most of them trying to be really good football players in THE. Nfl BUT i think that made it harder to, sustain and eventually it just kind of collapsed under its own.
Weight what do you remember about the month or, so if anything going into the game that you, Know Ohio states surviving close calls against you, Know michigan And purdue In illinois and. Whoever And miami for the most, part they have a couple of close calls, themselves but they're the defending national. CHAMPS i believe they just completely Bludgeon Virginia tech the game before the NATIONAL champi, ship but
they dropped fifty or sixty. Points do you remember it being sort of a pretty lopsided expectation that this was going to Be miami rolling once again like they did the year, before or were people keen On Ohio state's.
Defense, uh you, KNOW i think it's a hard to read on that because you, know like until you, know it's a little like the aura Of Mike, tyson you, know until somebody gets, wobbly you, know you don't believe it's actually there going to get knocked. Out and as you, SAID i mean This Ohio state, team they were scuffling a lot of, ways you, know like they struggled At, wisconsin they had their hands full of kind of stayed at. Home like you, mentioned The purdue game was, like that
was a Great purdue. TEAM i think they they had to go to overtime against EITHER i think it WAS i want to say It's, minnesota but maybe it Was. Illinois it was one of those teams that they had to go to overtime, about you, know and then they they you, know survived Against, mission and so they were scuffling along the. WAY i, mean WHAT i remember right in the run up was you had so much drama With Maurice clorette at that, point, right so you know
that was its own. SUBPLOT i MEAN i actually. WENT i don't know WHY i, went BUT i was at their first game that. Year it was Against Texas. Tech It's clarette's first. Game it's At Ohio, state And cliff was the was A Texas tech, quarterback and he was A i don't know IF i would say he was a Fringe Heisman.
Canaday he was definitely like on The heisman.
Radar, yeah he led the nation in passing that.
Year, Yeah And.
Clorette went off in that, game and then you go. OFF i want to, say LIKE i had a guy who now that is a buddy of mine who is on The Ohio state, staff and he worked with special.
Teams he was the line binners who work with special, teams.
And he was talking about like How clorette was like their best special teams, player and then we're talking about the true.
Freshman it's just like a.
Great all around football. Player AND i remember that the shoe was by the end of that Was channing Mo, reice you, know like the whole. Place and the other THING i would remember was hearing the. Refs like the next, MORNING i was somewhere where there was there was some officials who were flying out like that, morning BUT i THINK i was at the hotel where they were having breakfast and they were, Like i've never seen a quarterback take a pounding like that GUY i did and still
kept getting. Up well that Was, copse you, know so that was the beginning of, it and they went on this ride and you, know it's it, feels LIKE i, said for the people who are who are way young on listening to your, podcasts who maybe don't remember two thousand and, two like this wasn't The ohio, state you know, Now like it's like the Urban meyer Infused ohio state where they're gobbling up five star guys and and Essentially clemson And alabama esque from a talent, LEVEL i mean
they had they definitely had, some but they didn't have it like what this at least that's my. RECOLLECTION i just you, know it was Like miami was the one who had ridiculous. Talent And i've said it had a lot of really good. Players they were just a really good. Team but you, know as we're, Talking i'm going through you, Know, Chris Chris campbell was Just Michael jenkins was was really.
Good but then you looked at like the offensive. LINE i don't, KNOW i, Mean i'm kind of going through At Nick, MANGLES i remember being a really good, player.
But beyond, that it was you, know Like Will smith was obviously a GOOD nfl.
PLAYER i Remember Mike DAWs And Donnie Nicky york at the safeties and but it wasn't you, know it just to, me wasn't like kind of what we, were what we've become used to, with you, know with that, group you, know just going back, now they didn't even have a guy who went in the first round after, That so you, know credit To Jim trussell was hell of a coaching.
Job, Yet, bruce thinking back to this, game we already heard the story about you perhaps nearly losing, money but beyond, that what are some things we should know about This miami team or just about this game being so you were there that we wouldn't be able to pick up just from being fans in two thousand and two or watching the broadcast that.
NIGHT i think what really stood out to me was the expectation that that group had, had because what was different about? THEM i feel, like and again it's been a, while but the group in two thousand and one had all been on the. Ride like you, KNOW i just did this story for The athletic on like my favorite player that had ever been, around and it Was Ed. Reid me just had a charisma and a glow that was. Different, well when Ed reid got To miami and he wasn't
a big. Recruit they beat Too lane to get. Him it wasn't like he was you, know we're going to beat the whole sec to get him out Of. Louisiana but here's the. Thing when Ed reid was a, freshman they won five, games they were five and. Six they were taken out of the. Sanctions you, know he came in in half a recruiting.
Class.
Right so the guys on that two thousand and one, team most of them were guys who had been like hardened Through they they were battling early, on you, know in their. Careers they were really. Bad they got embarrassed By Florida.
State that was that.
Team the two thousand and two, Groups now there were still some guys who had you, Know dorsey was still.
There but for the most, PART.
I don't think the nucleus of that group had really been had come through all the path and had to watch it get built back up like this was kind of the guys who came who And i'm not saying they didn't know what it, took but they were there when you, know it had already been. Rolling So i'm not sure that they they saw quite that side of, it so maybe had a different perspective and a different shape on. It to, ME i think that made it a little different for the mindset of the.
Place thinking back on that, game AND i know it's been a, while but who was the best player on the field from your vantage, POINT i really.
Remembered winslow being the best player on the. Field like you, know again the guy had mentioned before who Coachedest Ohio. State he was, like he didn't have any answers for, Him like he was. Unstoppable AND i think that was a big that was a big thing FOR i, mean that was kind of a coming out party for him
on a national. STAGE i think he had eleven, CATCHES i meaning he was just and that those were good, players like Like Ohio state had two really, good experienced, safeties they had a bunch of linebackers who were, good solid, players and he was just a mismatch for, them you, know and at least on the field that. Night that's WHY i remember being the best player on the.
Field he was just they couldn't do anything with.
Him If miami could Protect Ken, dorsey he was going to tell on Wins well and they were moving the.
Ball what was your reaction to the McGahee. INJURY i know what it was like watching for from, home but from your vantage, point what was what was that?
Perspective it was later than probably what you guys, saw because you, know when you're watching the game or a press, box you're not seeing a.
Replay you didn't.
See you know how how gruesome that. Was you, know you see, it it's just, like oh my, god that's not quite what the thisement.
Injury, was but it felt like it was in that.
Realm kind of thing where it's bone snapping and just like and then there's a part of, it part of the situation where you're, thinking, man this is this guy's going in THE nfl to have this great. Career and fortunately for, HIM i, mean you, know with technology AND i guess medical science the way it, is still had
a really good. CAREER i, mean it wasn't Like miami had a had a great running back probably fifteen years, Earlier Melvin, bratton who also had a devastating injury in his final, game and it Derailed melvin's career pretty much, entirely where at least mcgahees it. Didn't so you, know it didn't take long to think about the ramifications of that for. Him AND i think you, know it was different then because, whatever it's seventeen years.
Ago it also wasn't.
At that stage where you'd have guys after that say all, Right i'm gonna sit out a bowl, game and this is a national title. Game i'm sure you know that Was that was a sobering, play to say the.
Least and.
You know when you said what plays stand, OUT i MEAN i was the first one in my. Head between that the, passitor it's you, know. Controversy those are the two things that stood out the most individually from that.
Game was it past? INTERFERENCE i don't.
KNOW i, mean you, know it's like you watched that so many. TIMES i, mean that's not AN hd, game by the, way right.
CORRECT i don't.
KNOW i remember talking To Mark stoops after the. Game he Was miami's secondary, coach and it was just there was so much controversy around, THAT i think because it.
Was so, delayed you, know and it's just, like, LOOK i don't think that was.
Obviously Ohio state won the, game AND i think you can ask Any Ohio state fan they could probably point out six different plays that they felt like should have you, know could have gone the other, way you, know officiating was SO i don't think that's ever a good situation for. Anybody it's certainly not a good situation FOR i still remember the name of the, official and it's sure it, wasn't.
You, know good for him and his. Family AND i think he's you, know it's probably even worse than this day and. Age so.
You, know it's just that game has had had so much drama around, it AND i think certainly that was part of it because of the, lag and you, know they're celebrating and then they're, not and then al, SUDDEN i, say we better get ourselves back up, again and find he really couldn't do.
It do you think A Jim tressel coach team in twenty, twenty which obviously the way he, coached the way he, recruited the Way Ohio state played football evolved over his tenure there until about a decade, later do you think that sort of blueprint could work now in playing as conservatively but intelligently and sort of focusing on defense and ball control or are we too far? Past are we
too evolved college football? Wise with, big wide open offenses and the sort of more leaning on creativity on offense is trestle?
Ball is it twenty twenty? COMPATIBLE i think it.
IS i, mean if you get the right players for, IT i definitely think it. IS i, mean, Look Mark antonio did a lot of the, Stuff Like Jim trussel didn't have a lot of success a decade, later AND i didn't have success in the last couple of years.
And was the defensive coordinator in this game For Ohio.
State he was, right and so there was a lot of that blueprint. There you, Know i'm trying to think of people now who are coaches is who are really using similar models to, That and you know it's hard to, FIND i mean right now a program because you see WHAT, lsu you see What alabama places that had been you, know winning with just defense and let's not screw it up for the offense kind of.
STUFF i think the better Of, Northwestern Pat fitzgerald And northwestern have sort of gone with that.
Model they, Have but AGAIN i THINK i GUESS i was talking about like could they could do for national, Championships LIKE i, mean Like Pat fitzgerald's a terrific, coach but they're not competing For National championships. There you, Know i'm just thinking like in terms of you, know it's
Like Kyle whittingham as a really physical. Team they're very well, coached BUT i feel like they're a little more aggressive on, offense you, know with some of the stuff they, do certainly some of the stuff they did last, year you, know When Andy ludwig went back. There BUT i you,
know it's just thinking off the top of my. Head it's hard to find somebody who has who had, that but that was a, really really Good his teams are really well, coached and they recruited, well and certainly it helped that he's At Ohio state where you can get a lot of players because you, know you have a big brand school and a lot to.
Sell SO i get that part of.
It and With miami going the direction that they, did still succeeding and they make the move to THE acc and then ultimately they have the down year And Larry koker's. Replaced you made an allusion to him being probably too nice for that. Job what Did miami?
Need? What you, know what is? It is it Just Butch?
Davis is it just you, know that big personality to keep everything you, know to keep the fire under the feet of everybody in the locker, room or as we've seen in a lot of, places that there's just sometimes a shelf life to.
EXCELLENCE i think it's really who's who's in, charge how well you.
Know Butch davis was a great. Evaluator account you learned Under Jimmy. Johnson HE i mean you look at a track. Record his back record for evaluating stacks up with anybody's coach college football in the last twenty five years from that eventually left, THEN i think it was you had a core group of. Guys edred was certainly the main guy who held people, accountable and that kind of fed into the locker. Room once that got away from, them
it started to. Implode AND i, MEAN i, think if it's too soon to tell, it Many diez will be that. GUY i Think manny's really. SMART i don't know how all the pieces will come. Together you, know it's not like there's less talent around them In South, florida, RIGHT i, mean it's, just you, know it's JUST i think chemistry is a tricky thing with how it.
FITS i, mean it wasn't that long Ago Florida state was on top of the college football, world and now it feels like a long time, ago you, know because once it starts to kind of get a little bit, off it's almost, like you, know you're starting to run up, hill and you, know you AND i you guys all we all remember WHEN usc was was, everything and now all of a, sudden it's, like, yeah we still can get, players but it's just the balance gets, off and so it's it's IT'S i don't think it's as black and
white a question as like a lot of us would want to, say and it definitely doesn't fit on a, tweet you know that kind of.
Thing final, question, now when you look back at this, game do you look at it, as you, know what do you give this overtime double overtime. Game you have the back and, forth you have a comeback From miami DESPITE i think they turned the ball over five. Times was this a great game or was this just a close?
GAME i think it was. BOTH i, mean it was good because of That.
Drom it had you, know a HISTORIC i, MEAN i guess any national title game is going to have a historic you know component to. IT i, mean would you ask me if it was one of the top five games the national title. GAMES i feel Like i've COVERED i would probably SAY i MEAN i WOULD i would put the to me The TEXAS usc game is a clear number.
One but THEN i would look at like the drama around The Alabama georgia game was a great. Game alabama And clemson had a great.
GAME i feel like there's been other ones that Even Florida state And, auburn you, know had plenty of drama in.
The right it came down to the last. Play there's Been there's just there's been a lot of great. GAMES i think what was what that game had.
Beyond just the controversial. Call it had a, great great team getting knocked off by a.
Story program that was on its way. Back.
Right so you, know if Like miami wasn't on the thirty four, game Win. Street If miami was was a team like you look At, alabama as great as they've, been they've, had you, know so many seasons where they've won national titles or played for him with one. LAW i, mean they're still probably the best team in the country that. Year but there there's an element of there's there's not
the element of. Invincibility miami at thirty four in a, ROW usc, saying you, know that's WHAT i think ads ratchets up the intrigue around those games because of.
That Bruce, feltman thank you very much for your, time and everybody, listening go buy every.
Question before we.
Go, Oh i've stick myself now That i'm now THAT i heard you shilling for, me but, YEAH i still. Will, Okay so our our Podcast The audible today we got a question about somebody. Referencing my favorite episode was When bridge asked to do if he Smoked whedon in. College stu was and our stew was in our it was in a. BAND i was going to say rock. BAND i would assume it's something like, that But i'd never heard of their, music and he said he never. HAD i had said to, him when this thing is all over,
again all. CLEAR i think the first episode, Back stu's Gotta SU's gotta blaze it up.
And and do The audible that way good. Idea that.
IDEA i will fly to Northern california and put on a hazmat suit and personally produce the. EPISODE i will make sure record gets. HIT i will make Sure stu is in a safe. PLACE i think it's a fantastic. Idea we may copy the. Idea, yeah we might think might Have maybe maybe we implore all relevant college football podcasters to celebrate in such a way when we get the all, clear.
Like it's like the it's Not kim going on fine. Bomb we have an.
Editor If stu like drists down the road of talking about his old mailbag crushes and it gets a little, weird and you can edit that.
OUT i, mean we can talk About stuartmandel dot com and then edit it. Out everybody if if you, know you, KNOW i think it's a terrific.
Idea, okay, Well i'm. Glad i'm Glad i'm not alone on that.
Front i'm Also i'm also skeptical that he's telling the.
TRUTH i, don't you know. What you can say a lot of things About. STU i find him to be very. Honest, OKAY i. DON'T i don't think he would make that. UP i don't even know why he would claim. It it's like he's ever going to run for.
Office, yeah he's not joining THE, fbi he's not running for. Office he's he's a college football, writer AND i think it would give him a little more Cred And i'm dying to hear what he would have to say if his mind was a little bit.
Altered, YEAH i would.
Be fascinated to see that version Of. STUE i have seen the lit version Of. Stu there was a window where it was.
Different and what does this? Mean it's not for this? Podcast Was?
Stu, okay you don't have to say yes or? No Was stu implicated in The Gold club?
Trial? Now and this doesn't have anything to do With John. Junker, ah that's a.
Shame.
Okay, uh, well then that's a good great. Seas you should subscribe to The. Audible you should subscribe to The Solid. Verbal bruce And stewart turning out episodes there horrific and they've been doing it for a long time. Now AND i don't know If Trader joe's is still a, sponsor But bruce likes the Orange.
Chicken there's still a. Sponsor AND i would highly recommend what are the sweet potato tortilla chips for a? Moss?
Oh those are very?
Good go look On amazon for first of, All Kine mutiny is the name Of Bruce's miami book that he talked About look for THE Qb look For Meat, market in which he follows at oorgeron around and had no idea that COACH o would eventually become a national champion head. Coach and you, know Find bruce. Everywhere you know where to Find. Bruce just Google Bruce. Feldman you'll find. Him, bruce thank you very much for your.
Time thank you always good to hear, you, guys voices especially, now appreciate.
It all, Right, dan there you. Go Bruce feldman from The Athletic Fox. Sports please do subscribe to the show he does With Stuart, mandell our good, Friend The, audible another college ball. Podcast we're all kind of in this big universe together trying to figure out what to talk about right now in the midst of a global. Pandemic but we're doing our. BEST i, mean are we going to keep doing? This do you want to keep doing these? Games it's been, fun.
Yes so we need to come up With we need people to give us suggestions for the next game we would. Like it doesn't have to be a championship. Game obviously we did The Bush push. Game just a big. GAME i think we're giving preference to it being pre Soliverbal, era so pre two thousand and. Eight but if there's something weird and Fun we are happy to do any.
Game just give us a suggestion and pay attention To twitter Or, instagram in which we will tell you which game to go rewatch so you can follow along as you listen to the.
Show we will do our best to do.
That by the, way as a, PostScript tie some some really weird after the after the what is it on The bachelor after the rose or something like, that after the final. Rose, yeah after the final something like. That So Larry coker's. FIRED a few years, later as you, Know miami joins THE acc and it's clear that they succeeded With Butch davis players and he couldn't hold it,
together even recruiting pretty. Well Jim tressell just goes on a tremendous run with as many problems as you know some people have with trestle ball and sort of being conservative on. Offense what he does In columbus is, incredible and the way it ends is also very, strange with covering up tattoos and trell pryor and everything like. That it worked out fine For Ohio, state and now he's the president Of Youngstown state where he used to. Coach so it don't cry For Jim. Trussell it ended, weirdly
but he had just a tremendous run. There Larry koker went on to eventually COACH utsa and was not. Good it was not good FOR. Utsa you, know largely what happened TO nfl. Players we've Mentioned Will smith's. Name he dies in just just a wild. Fashion it's just tragic for everybody. Involved Maurice clorette and he has that single year he sues THE. Nfl he's kicked off of he's hooked out Of Ohio, state the. Institution he sues THE nfl to be, drafted and it's accepted and then it's
overturned and so there's a whole. Drama he ends up. Incarcerated Ken dorsey's a coach in THE. Nfl Craig, Crenzel i'm, sure is a wildly successful doctor. Somewhere Ohio state was fine And miami wasn't in the long, term and they haven't been since they've had you, know they had the year With Mark, richt but, otherwise you, Know Randy shannon Replaces Larry, coker and then you Have Al golden And Mark richt and it just have him able to find
that that swaggy elixir. Tie they just have swaggy. Elixir seems like a good way to sign off. Tonight Jim tressel nine and one Against. Michigan so that worked out. Well it's undeniable That ohio state and that was the beginning of something incredibly special for the Buck eyes and beginning of the end of something incredibly special for The.
Keynes all, Right, well As dan, said let us know what game you want us to do. Next solidverbo at gmail dot com is the email. Address you can also follow along with us on social. Media we would love to hear from you about what game we should do. Next, yeah we are planning to do. Bunch it's been a lot of fun going back into the archives of college football to watch some of these great football. Games so one more, time soliverable at gmail dot, Com dan fun.
Show we appreciate our good Friend Bruce felman stopping on. BUY i think that's ALL i. Have it was fun to go back and watch this game.
Again OH i should point out That Frank abagnail did serve time the character and catch me if you. Can but, now, yes he has been HELPING i think THE fbi with with counterfeit and and sort of prosecute those sort of counterfeit you, know checks and everything like, that and they were able to destroy the. Ring eventually they wrote a giant bird On Middle earth and they just sort of dumped and.
Dropped Yeap Mount.
Doom so they defeated Sore On AND i think everything has worked. Out J low got married to or is With Alex Rodriguez. Ty everything's.
Great everything's, great except for the fact that we've got a global. Pandemic we hope everyone out there is other than, that staying safe and washing their hands and, hey you, know enjoying the time at home with your. Family weird, times but we'll get through it. Together we will be back in one week's time to talk about another ancient game from college football. History can't wait in the meantime for that guy over, there my good friend Danre, ygenstein for,
Myself Tie, hildebrand thank you so much for tuning. In we will talk to you all. Soon in the, Meantime stay, solid, peace