Welcome to the solid verbal hell that for me. I'm a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say, well, I want to be happy.
You want to be happy for a day?
Edith state is that? Woo woof and.
Them and tie.
Welcome back to the solid rubble boys and girls. My name is Ty hilden Brandt, joining me as always over there A bit under the physical weather or whatever we want to call this, a bit injured. Yeah, the one and only Dan Ruvenstein, sir, how is your shoulder?
It's okay. I played very low level rec league tennis, not rec league, just with a friend, and I wrenched it a little bit. And that's what happens when you get old. And we'll address it more, I suppose on the twenty twenty one Washed List episode. Yeah, that's coming up here, what probably a few weeks, maybe a little before August. Sort of an off topic for everybody, maybe just for verballers. Haven't decided yet. I think we should make it for everybody that's the most do this thing.
We're all getting older together. Yeah, true, very true. So I'm all right. I'm hanging in there. I've got advil coursing through whatever, advil courses through. I have some iced coffee going. I'm hydrating because apparently today is National Hydration Day. This is your holiday.
I know.
I learned it from the Miami Hurricanes Twitter account, so you know I could be worse. I'm all right. I'm ready to roll for this newest episode of the hard Sell.
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Yeah, I'm really enjoying the Discord community that has grown up, that is bubbling up out of the earth, out of the earth, out of the earth. It's just a it's a good collection of people who like talking college football. We have a really active recipe and food channel in there, and we do brewin a stuff and it's just it's it's talking with other fans online without the toxic Twitter element of like lol, fraud like it. It's really nice. I enjoy the people that you know are. I think
people should hang out with this community. If you're a like minded college football fan and forballer, give it a look. See what the options are. I'm I'm we're pretty active in there. I like it.
We yeah, I need to get more active. We did a survey before we did the Patreon thing at all, and we pose the question to people, which of these benefits would be of interest to you. Discord was near the bottom, and so my expectation was that when we launched this thing, there was gonna be a lot of activity. There'll be a few people coming and going and chatting about whatever ails them. In fact, it's turned into just a eight for ales whatever ails them. A bustling community
of college football fans and all around cool people. It's been a lot of fun, so check it on out again. For Ballers dot Com is how you can find out more information about joining the Patriarch community and getting access to said discord server Dan. Yeah, what is our show today? Well, Texas receiver Jake Smith entered the transfer portal, and I know you had a kind of an extensive guide to his pros cons and where he might end up. So I guess the floor is yours, right, other than Jake Smith?
What is this show about?
This is our newest episode of the Hard Sell, which people say to be enjoying. It's one of our new concepts that we've weaponized for the listening public, in which both you and I. You like that I tried to sneak it past. It's good, worry, thank you each of us, You and I each select a recruiting rival of sorts, and we did Ohio State Michigan last time, and you
could make a case. You know, Ohio State's main recruiting rival is say Alabama or Georgia or Clemson, because they're the ones in it for I mean, the most national five stars. It seems year in and year out, but I think within the Big Ten, within certain conferences, we're looking to find those rivals or pseudo rivals or and this is today's episode. TCU versus Oklahoma State was a suggestion we got from a few people when we asked
for suggestions. Not necessarily at the very top of each conference, but two schools that find each other competing for recruits more often than not year in and year out. And so with TCU and Oklahoma State, obviously it would have been a higher profile to do Texas O, but it's our show. We don't need to, So we're doing TCU. Oklahoma State. You have I think romantic and lust full history with TCU. I have nothing either way with Oklahoma State, though I love a lot of their uniforms and have
always treasured pistol pete in my college football life. So that's who we're competing again. So I'm representing Oklahoma State, You're representing TCU, and we are going to even though we don't necessarily believe ty in Dan what we're saying in defense of and attacking another school, we are behaving on behalf. We are acting on behalf of these schools as recruiters, and this is how we would recruit for and against these schools.
Yeah, we are ambassadors if you will for our active probeam. Thank you exactly. The position, the name of the recruit, so we agreed on the last show a wide receiver, which like instantly gives you an advantage if I'm being honest, if you're taking Oklahoma State, it's already a harder cell I think for me as TCU. But we'll get into all that momentarily.
Two relative two first round receivers in the last five years for TCU, is that right? That is correct? Okay, So I don't think you are starting way way behind the starting line here. It's not bad. It's not as bad as I initially thought. But again we'll get into that momentarily. Do we come to an agreement on the name of this recruit. Yeah, yeah, his name is going to be Junkyard docks and a combination of Junkyard Jim Washington of course from Oklahoma State and Josh Dockson from TCU.
He is six two and a half one hundred and ninety three pounds from Denton guy Or High School, which I believe is the alma mater of JW. Walsh in Texas. Denton is north of the df W area. Maybe it's considered to be a DFW suburb. I don't know how it's officially classified, but it's between still Water and and Fort Worth, so that it figured to be a worthwhile that's good.
That's good.
So that's where we are. And just in terms of his background, he is athletic. You know, obviously he's not like six three two fifteen, so perhaps he's not that five star, but he's a versatile receiver and you know, moved all around on his high school team and everything that higher level college football programs would want in a
four star receiver. He's not a full five star, but he's a four star, has the potential to make early impacts for either for any team he ends up playing for, Okay, And it's just he wants to stay relatively close to home, which is why he's looking at the Big twelve. And he's narrowed it down to TCU in Oklahoma State, two schools where he feel like he feels like he won't
get lost in the shuffle you have. You know, Sark has brought in some wide receivers I believe, or I mean just their wide receiver talent at Texas more so at Oklahoma, and so he really wants to to gave his own way to carve, to blaze his own trail. This is why Oklahoma State and TCU really do appeal to him.
Let's play the.
Music's do it.
Hopefully this gets the juices flowing.
Dan, I should have you know that I got a very reserved phone call from Mama H shortly after our last episode and she's like, you know, you're just not very good.
At these episodes.
This is not your wheelhouse. And then we got a comment, a comment from our.
Boy Ben on Facebook, who was a little bit more aggressive in the way that he worded it, but also not a fan of my tactics here.
Well, I mean recruiting is it's dogg eat dog and do dog. It's a little bit of a snake oil salesman. Well, I don't think. I think I did a fantastic job with both Alabama and Michigan. I think you just need to dig deeper, and you need to find the kernel, the core of your selling point, and that's emotion, it's relationships, and I don't know if you've fully tapped into it. You've done your research, you know your stuff. Well, you need to find what's inside the stuff. Ty, So, mister
Junkyard Docks and do you go by Junk? Can we just call him Junk?
Is that okay?
I hope. So. I think the recruiter who recruited for Georgia forgot the recruits name a number of times. So it's good that this recruiter for TCO is really verifying j Junker Junkyard Jay if you want Jyard JJ Docks.
Yeah, whatever, whatever works for you, mister junk Junk is fine. You know, the college experience is all about growth, It's all about development.
It's about you jumping in here. Are you making the first pitch? Is that what I'm making the first pitch? Okay?
I just want to make sure it's about getting you ready for the future, both in football and in the real world here. But we know there are no shortcuts. But you can learn the process. You can learn the process from the best of them. You can learn it from Gary Patterson. Gary Patterson has been at the helm of this program now for over twenty years. He has fine tuned those dark arts of growth and development ever so gradually over the course of the last two decades.
This is a program that turned into one of.
The big boys.
Dan, excuse me, Junk, turn into one of the big boys. They bootstrapped. TCU did bootstrapped their way from the Whack to Conference USA, to the Mountain West, and now to the Big Twelve. This is a growth mentality that is pervasive all throughout the TCU football program, the TCU institution as an academic institution. It's part of everything that goes on in Fort Worth. It's how they constantly produce NFL talent, how they compete for championships, how they get you ready
for life after football. On the other side of things, actually in the classroom, because look, mister and missus, junk feels very weirdy to say that, Docson, I don't know, maybe they go by Junk.
I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, in the classroom. What you'll come to know about TCU is that the core curriculum, it's well done, it's practical. It's set up with a focus on getting students prepared for the real world after graduation. It's a place that's big enough to feel like a big time, you know, huge institutional like the Penn States, like the Arizona States of the world. But at the same time it's small enough, it's personal enough that your professors are
actually going to know your name. So a degree from TCU is meaningful because you get that one on one attention when it comes to actually learning your desired discipline. And it's also setting you up from a practical standpoint so that you can hit the ground running if you do have to go into the working world after you play your football career.
Through going pro something other than football.
Is that what you're saying, Maybe maybe, Okay, yep, So TCU really gives you the best of both worlds. But it is all about that growth and personal development. It is something that Gary Patterson, something that the institution as a whole, they take it very seriously, and I think it's evident whenever you look at TCU that their roots are humble, but they've built themselves up as a football program, as an institution to this level of being just national.
Wee wee wee wee.
Yeah, I'm an agent. I'm an agent here. I can speak.
Oh, you're an agent.
I can use I can use the Royal wee, I can go they, I can do whatever I want.
No, es, that is my opening pitch.
Continue, Okay, I think that's it's an interesting opening pitch, for sure. I'm going to focus on Oklahoma State because that's that's where the good folks at the Berlinnikof Award are focused. Justin Blackman, of course, won it twice, and Jim Washington, you know, James Washington, Junkyard, Junkyard Jim of course, yeah, James Washington won it recently. And it's just been a really great place for wide receivers to thrive on the field.
And Stillwater is a fantastic place. Everybody in Stillwater loves college football and shows up to the games in the big stadium. There's just something about Oklahoma State and getting the best of big time football in a town that's a true college town, not a city, but a college town. And between the facilities that, of course te Boon Pickens was able to spearhead and fund between the continuity with coach Gundhy in Stillwater both of course with a storied
career as a player and then longtime coach. The continuity is there. And the offensive coordinators that have gone on to bigger and better jobs. You talk about Dana Holgerson and Todd Munkin and Mike y'ersick and recently Sean Gleeson and now of course Casey Lee Dunn has been a fantastic addition, not addition, he's been there forever. But you're going to be coached by the best in a big time place, playing in big time a big time rivalry game in Bedlum. I'm not sure tc was at the
revivalry with Baylor, the private school pillow fight. I just think there is something about Junkyard Docson that it just spells big time to me. And I see a bee with big time, and I see a bee with Bolitnikoff. I see the whole package here with Oklahoma State and a wide receiver from Texas who's used to big time football. So Oklahoma State it makes sense to me, obviously it
makes sense to you on a certain level. What we do is we develop players here at Oklahoma State, not just for the next level, but to succeed on this level, to win, to be a part of a prolific passing offense that for the past five years finished as a top fifty offense. We can talk about TCU if you want, but I'd rather just talk about Oklahoma State here and how well we develop wide receivers and offensive skill talent here in Stillwater.
And also the All American rejects to be outdone also from Stillwater, Oklahoma.
Big with seventeen year olds in twenty twenty one, twenty years after their seven album came out.
Yeah, I okay, So let's let's unpack that a little bit. You talk about being coached by the best, and for sure Mike Gundy is a good coach. The offense has been high flying. I want to talk a little bit about Doug Meacham though, talk a little.
Bit about the Lee. It's just Casey Don Casey Lee just sounded good to Casey Lee. Done, Casey Lee done.
Sure.
I want to talk about Doug Meacham. We'll get into Gary Patterson.
Sure.
Doug Meacham on the topic of offensive coordinators. He has roots in the air Raid, which obviously is a very wide, wide receiver friendly system. He is an aggressive minded play caller. He has a knack for developing talent, pretty good track record of doing that and in particular getting his best players the football back in the days of Josh dockson part of Doug meacham offense, and his ability to go downfield, his ability to focus on the best player on the field.
Part of that is what made Josh Dockson into a first round draft pick by the Redskins. So he's a guy who if you come in with a lot of talent, he will find that talent. He will find ways to make it better. But he will also try and use the existing offense to harness it and booy the entire the entire operation if he gets that reliable target. And I have to believe, mister Junk, that you are the reliable target. Sure, he also likes to bombit deep, loves
to bombit deep. We saw it in twenty sixteen with mister Dockson, your namesake. We even saw that a bit last year in the absence of a true stud wide receiver. Good wide receivers, no one your caliber, mister Junk. But over eighteen percent of TCU's passes went for at least twenty or.
More yards in the air. I was among the nation's best.
This is an offense that's high flying, an offense that likes to rely on wide receivers, and an offense I should also point out that has produced two first round NFL draft picks from the wide receiver position in the last five years, those being Josh Dockson previously mentioned and of course most recently in twenty twenty Jalen Riger.
I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from, because what I'm seeing with TCU is I'm seeing last season. Now, he was just what a receiver's coaches is, Doug Meecham you're talking about. I'm seeing TCU as a one hundred and fifth best passing offense in the country. So maybe
they attempted a lot of downfield passing. You talked about that that one on one attention that you get going to TCU, right, I don't know if mister Max Duggan and the one on one attention that he was trying to put out into the universe, I don't think they were. There was not a lot of connection, okay, is what I would say. You was really poor one hundred and second in terms of percentage of passes to outside receivers. They threw to running backs, they threw to slot receiver receiver.
So we're talking of a big time receiver here who wants.
But they like to move them around.
You said they like to move around in high school and TCU that offense is creative enough in that it knows how to get the right matchups. I don't think just judging from talking to mister and Missus and Junk Junior, I'm assuming that he wants the football in open space. He wants the football in ways that he can make the most impact if you're looking for that. I think TCU has shown a proficiency in putting its players in a good spot to get those matchups and showcase what they can do.
Yeah, you want to showcase what you can do in man coverage, Max Duggan a QBR of ten point three versus man coverage in twenty twenty, So you gotta start showcasing. I'm right there with you.
See the problem?
The problem though, Yeah, and I think that's fair. We've gotten a lot of questions from other parents at the wide receiver position about that very stat How do you guys do against man coverage?
What I would say and what I have said.
To the Junk Fano Almano, what I've said to the Junk family is that what we're trying to do at TCU at the receiver position is get more athletic. We want to get more guys that wiggle, more guys at that shake that can build it off of man coverage and put our offense in a better position. We think that's that's Junkyard Dockson.
Yeah, no, it's all hypothetical. The good news here is what we saw from Spencer Sanders from Oklahoma State, a quarterback. We're quite proud of his progress and how he is
ascending up the college football ranks at quarterback. We saw we saw him throw for four hundred yards against Texas last year, throw four touchdowns, averaging ten yards per attempt, and then how he finished the season leading the Pokes to a forty two to three win over Baylor, and just I mean it was three touchdowns, it was eleven yards an attempt, completing almost seventy percent of his p is the bowl game against Miami with first round talent on
that defense, another seventy percent almost completion rate, three hundred plus yards, four touchdowns, no picks. We're talking about a growth at quarterback that isn't hypothetical. It's something that we are already seeing seeing guys develop like Tylan Wallace. We're seeing guys develop Dylan Stone or marcel Aateman. These guys are accomplished on both the college level and making names
for themselves on the pro level. We can't control that, but obviously the way they contributed to us here in Stillwater and in the Big Twelve, we're always quite impressed looking back at what they've done for us in these last couple of years. So it's not a hypothetical for us. We are showing and proving that, and we have been able to despite offers from other schools, huge schools, that we were able to keep Casey done here in the fold up. Lee done a great job. Now just Casey done,
Casey Dunn. Maybe it's Casey Lee done. Who knows who's to say, but I just have Casey done here, and I just it makes sense to me. And there's something about still in college football with you know, Fort Worth great place, an unbelievable city, and you know that the DFW area is a cowboys town. I'd love to say it's an Oklahoma State cowboys town, but it's a pro sports town. And I mean, frankly, there are more ut people. They are more Oklahoma people in the DFW area, and
understandably so TSU's a tiny, little private school. It's a cute story obviously, and you know, you maybe fired it's a small school nine ten thousand kids in Texas, you have fifty thousand. Now you just numbers wise, TCUs, it's going to be tough to compete, and I get it. And you can be a little froggy or a blood frog. You know, it's hard to keep track, but you could be a cowboy pistol pee. There's just something about especially with the nil stuff coming through. This is a college town.
You can be the face of a college town, not just another person in the DFW area. You can Wow, I'll just I'm just spitballing here, Ty, in terms of the opportunities available, do you want to be the face of Little Shop of Flowers, Spin City Laundry? Don Evans window Tints, Balance coffee crouches, heating and cooling, whatever it is that does it for you. You are going to be influential. Don Evan, Oklahoma, Don Evans window Tint, look it up.
The reviews are fantastic and we'd love to be involved, Don. I've spoken to Don. He'd love to be involved more with the program. So there is something exceptional. He's being face Boone pickens that Don, Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I think you know, I have a number of friends who have been to Fort Worth, have attended TCU, and they have nothing but great things to say, and I'm taking
them at their work. It looks fantastic. But playing in a big rivalry like Bedlam, playing on the national stage, you know, guys getting drafted into the NFL at quarterback, there's just it's a different level. And that's why we see you as a different level wide receiver. It just fits. The facilities are second to none because of t Boone Pickens and his contributions to the program and his passion about poke football. You see all the uniforms, you see
the fantastic facilities. Ye, something like six hundred and fifty million dollars. That's to the school as a whole, a big believer in both high level athletics and academics. So of course it's it's a fit. It's just we see you in your style and your personality, and you see the success that we've had with these high flying top offenses quarterback after quarterback, coordinator after coordinator, and call me crazy, it just makes sense. It just makes sense. It's a
marriage made in heaven. Let me tell you what else makes sense. What makes sense is if you want to get to the NFL. If you're really serious about growing as a player, you're really serious about growing as a person, football won't last forever. You go to the place that's got the track record or doing all of those things, and you put yourself in the best best basis to succeed. Excuse me, by working under the tutelage of one Gary Patterson. We could talk a good game about Mike Gundy and
the hair and ooh, that's a lot of fun. Yeah, let's talk about Gary Patterson. He's coached TCU for the last twenty years. He was hired December two thousand, been there forever. Second longest tenured coach in college football. The only one who's.
Been at his place longer is Kirk Farens at IOWA. This is a guy who has coached TCU in four different conferences now I said it, at the top, the Whack Conference, USA, Mountain West, and Big Twelve. He's been there all along that journey. He is such an authority on college football. Dan Not only is he successful as a coach, not only is he revered by his peers in the coaching profession. He sings, he sings, he dances, He's on American idol. He's on the ESPN film room.
You can watch him with your own eyes every college football National Championship. You can see him there, and you know what the other coaches are doing as he's espousing his endless wisdom. They're taking notes. They're taking notes. We saw it with Major apple White a couple of years ago. Gary Patterson is seated right next to him. Nobody can get a word in edgewise because Coach Patterson just sees the game. He's like John Nash in a beautiful mind.
He sees it sure the way he sweats a little bit more too, he sees it in a way that many coaches do not. He is an authority on all things college football. He's an authority on that development aspect that I think is just so vital in getting you to the next level. Well, if you're looking for a coach who can't stop talking, may I tell you about coach Mike Gundhy. No, obviously, Coach Gundy's been there, been in Stillwater since two thousand and five. He lives and
breathes poke football Oklahoma State. Of course, he played for the school. He's been involved in the school.
Obviously, some people think he's a bit of a joke because of the I'm a man, I'm forty, But we're talking about somebody who goes to the mat for his players, talking to somebody who believes and having their back, and me using the phrase having their back and going to the mat. It's not an accident because still Water also the home of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame. It's a hold on. It's a big time school, well, big time athletics.
Wasn't there an instance where the star running back for Oklahoma State was so dismayed by the handling of certain events, particularly as they related to Mike Gundy, that he was willing to sit out last year, that he took a really hard line was very open in the media against Mike Gundy. Is that the kind of player coach relationship that is cultivated at Oklahoma State?
Is that the norm? Or is you know, what should what should the junks expect from this?
It's a great question, Ty, and I can tell you this coach Gundhy's looking at twenty twenty as a learning experience. He absolutely is. And one of the great things about Oklahoma State is it's a place where somebody like Chewba Hubbard is out spoken, is developed. Is somebody he feels comfortable in an environment to speak up and say, you know what, something is wrong here. We need to fix this program from the inside. And somebody like that. That's
a man of Oklahoma State. That's somebody who represents Oklahoma State exceptionally well. And Mike Gundy absolutely did not meet his own standard in what he did in twenty twenty. But I can tell you this, he is reinvigorated. He is reinvigorated as a coach. We all tie. I'm not going to tell me tell you I'm perfect. I don't think you would tell me you're perfect. We all need
wake up calls. And that's what twenty twenty was for coach Gundhy and Chewba Hubbard in the family of Oklahoma State was able to help him wake up.
Wow.
Look, if you're gonna use that against Oklahoma State, that's a tactic. I you know, that's a TCU tactic. I guess, but tactic. It's a TCU tactic. It's a sort of Look, if you're a private school, if you're a small school and you're punching up, I get you. You got to do whatever it takes. I get it.
Tie.
I get it, I absolutely do. But you know when I'm sitting here in front of the docks and this is the docsins, excuse me, they're they're just they're classy people. Tie the doctions. They see through this weeder dogs. That's what that sounded like, the junkyard docksons. Yeah.
What what's the status of the Oklahoma State football facilities in?
I mean, they're fantastic? How phenomenal? How fantastic? How phenomenal?
Tell me? Do I want to know more before I send my son there?
Sure? I want to know more about the facilities. What are we what are we getting ourselves? The locker rooms are wonderful, the weight rooms are incredible, the uniforms, just the combination upon combinations. We're here to help you pop. You look good, you feel good, you play good. And that's something about Oklahoma State that we're creative. We want guys to stand out. We want the Oklahoma State football
program to stand out. We are we do whatever it takes to help differentiate ourselves because we feel like in Stillwater, Oklahoma State is a different place. Different and so whether you know whether you're you're mingling with fans at Eskimo Joe's a legendary, legendary haunt in still Water that's up there with the best of places in the country in terms of college food, eats, drinks, whatever I know Fort Worth has and it's more of a honky tonk town. If you want to, you know, go varsity at the
two step over there. Billy Bob's, I believe, is the place that's good, that's cool, follow your path. Everybody has their own journey. But there's just something. It's big time college football and still Water in Oklahoma State, and this is what we're selling here, We're selling the big time Well.
Gary Patterson wanted to make more of a light experience, let's say, in the facilities. So in effect they built their own Dave and Busters full on arcade, all sorts of cool games trying to lighten the mood. Football is fun, Football is serious business. We obviously all take this seriously. At the same time, you got to be a kid. Man, got to be a kid. You gotta have fun out there.
If you're not having fun, as you said, you got to look good, you gotta feel good, you gotta play good.
All three things need to work together.
So let's build an arcade in our facilities make people feel good about it. Let's build facilities that are so top notch, so top arch If you're looking to attract children, it's the move. It's absolutely the move to attract children and adult weirdos. To build an arcade.
News Slash Newslash. These kind of our children and adult weirdos end of the side, we're talking about young men. We're talking about molding these teenagers into young men. And if for you that's galaga and tech in, that's cool.
Also, these facilities are so advanced across the board, not just the arcade.
The arcade is something that people gravitate towards. These facilities are so advanced that some NFL reporters who have been on site have gone around and told their peers, like, yo, these might be better facilities than most NFL teams.
It's that advance.
At TCU, they've really put a strong commitment into bettering their facilities, making sure that all the players have nothing but the best at their disposal. It's one of the ways that they were able to get into these bigger and better conferences over the years by demonstrating time and again that they've got a real serious, ongoing commitment to
the football program. And so you can trace that line all the way back to when Gary Patterson started, all the way back in the Halcyon days of the Whack right when he coached one game at the end of the year, through Conference USA, through the Mountain West, all the way up into the Big Twelve. That through line has always been incremental upgrades, finding ways to make the program ever so slightly better from year to year to year to year. And that's where we're at now. The
facilities are second to none, second to none. Yeah, I think TCU is using those facilities wisely because you don't just get to four, five, six wins every year in dilapidated facilities. And so TCU has a six win program. They're doing what it takes behind the scenes. And hats off to Gary, your shirts off to Gary, whatever it is, whatever cartoonish thing Gary Patterson is doing these days, but just winning games, developing players. I think that's what we're
focused on here at Oklahoma State. I just, you know, whatever it is, the arcades, the second to none, the NFL reporters, this is all. It's all external tie. We're a tightened family here at Oklahoma State, and we focus on football, well, focus on the development of young men here and again it's fantastic arcades children. Whatever it is that you were going on and on about TCU, I think it's great. I think it's great for some people, but for big time receivers like Junkyard Docks and we're
focused on some bigger, real life stuff, that's all. Mike Gundy's been at Oklahoma State for fifteen seasons now sometimes lane's.
Two thousand and five. Yes, heavily invest.
Fifteen seasons, only six double digit win seasons. So we can talk a great game about Yeah, you know, you got to spend all that money to get the six wins, But I don't see a whole lot here on this coaching resume that excites me.
Dan.
Yeah, I mean, if Oklahoma State were a Mountain West Pro Conference USA, whack is that what you were talking about? You know, those numbers might look a little bit bit different. But again, it's it's a big time program and always has been. And I think it's really nice that TCU has found its way. You know, it took sort of stops and starts to this level. But uh, it's gonna take some time for Gary Patterson to fully get used
to things, playing playing big ball. That's all. That's okay, hmm okay, So I like there is there anything else? Selling Point TCU Quarterbacks? Fort Worth? You really haven't mentioned?
I don't know.
I don't really I feel like about fort Worth, to be perfectly, I know. Here's what I know about fort Worth. Here's I know about for the only thing I know about fort Worth I've never been there.
I wanted to go.
I have a chance.
With weird Dad, I've been down there a bunch of times. I've never had a chance to go. So I'm not even gonna try to fake it. Call me out if you want, I don't care. All I've been told about fort Worth is that you've heard of the wild West. The wild West starts in Texas.
Anyway, when you get to fort Worth.
Doesn't start in Dallas. It starts in fort Worth. Is that is that accurate? That's something that you've heard. I couldn't tell you either way. Have you been? People's experience was? I have been a fort Worth and I enjoyed it. It's nice. I'd love to go.
We didn't. We didn't have a chance.
Anytime I've been to Texas and never had a chance to go. No, it's a it's a good place. Have you been a still Water? No, I haven't been a still Water. I've been to Norman. Interesting, what your thoughts about everywhere? Uh, Norman's fine, Fine, it's fine, It's good. A ringing endorsement for the state of Oklahoma. Norman was, well, I mean, Norman's right outside of Oklahoma City. It's a little bit different. It's a different experience. I'm just telling
you right now, Oklahoma State is big time athletics. We're about to see what the number one overall NBA draft pick. There's a gravity to Stillwater. There's a gravity to Oklahoma State. The best of the best find themselves at Oklahoma State. Sure, am I taking credit for Kaid Cunningham. I'm not. I'm just telling you about the gravity and what it means to be a poke and kid. Cunningham saw this experience in Stillwater and said, you know what, I want to be a part of it. I want to be a
part of it. Big time basketball player, big time wrestlers. It just keeps happening over and over again. That big time means a big move to still Water. Ironically enough, nothing stays still at stillwater. It's always moving. We're always moving here. Did you just make that up?
You just made that? I did?
Yeah, it was pretty good.
I like that.
Thank you?
All right?
Well, Solid Verbal at gmail dot com is email right in. Unload on us.
Let us know your thoughts on how we did with this here argument. We will also obviously be posting to all of our social channels where you can again weigh in and tell me how delusional I am.
For the last five years, TCU has not produced a top fifty offense. I just I worry about Junkyard Dockson like I'm going. It's gonna keep me up nights a little bit. If if you make a choice to go to TCU, like, how do you showcase your receiver skills if you can't get the ball?
See, you're still recruiting, and I stopped about five minutes ago.
No, I just that's we're at a lot.
I thought I've given this. Look, this is me diving inside the stuff, tie inside the stuff. I can't tell when you stopped recruiting. I'm always recruiting here, Tye twenty four to seven.
I mean the line would have been, you can't tell when I started recruiting that would have been the line.
But you can keep doing for next time.
I would still done.
We're done.
I like, I like done, like Casey Casey Lee done.
I like your argument.
I think it's I think this was the hardest pairing that we've had because all the other ones, the two schools that we've done before, in both cases, right, we just had more material to work with. So recruiting a wide receiver to either of these two schools was inherently much more difficult because they're just not as big a programs, are not as steep with rich recent college football success. Those harder is much harder.
Yeah, I mean, but the good thing about this one is they're similar too. TCU in Oklahoma State similar in that they have had big successes that have not carried over to two three four year runs. But what TCU is in the twenty sixteen they demolished ole Miss in that was twenty fourteen, but they demolished Old Miss like forty two to three in Peach Bowl, I believe. And Oklahoma State went to the Sugar Bowl that was twenty sixteen, also against ole Miss, and Oklahoma State lost that game.
So the you know, you have Trevon Boykin twenty fourteen. You have higher highs. Oklahoma State has more offensive firepower, but TCU, you know, they win the Rose Bowl. There's just a higher ceiling. I would say that I would push I would have pushed TCU just on bigger stages, more often, in bigger national conversations. But you know, Oklahoma State was number two in the country before they lost
to Iowa State. So they're very similar, which I think makes it like my job as a Michigan recruiter was harder against Ohio State, and yours as Georgia was probably a little less hard against Alabama, just because, yeah, competing for similar recruits. But Oklahoma State and TCU I think have similar sites, similar sites.
I'll tell you what was interesting to me going back and reading up on Doug Meacham. So, Doug Meacham, you skipped over the Kansas part.
I noticed that.
Yeah, I skipped over the Kansas part.
I didn't hammer you on that. Yeah, skipped over the Kansas part. That was entirely by design. But Doug Meacham had been paired with Sonny Comby right in Sunny Cumby.
It depends where you read.
There's actually a pretty wide spectrum of how fans view those.
Two coordinators and what their roles were. The Doug Meacham thing was interesting because I found an old interview that our friends over at Frogs of War did before Meacham. I guess it was immediately after Meacham was hired as part of the new Kansas Football State and the question that was posed to the Frog's War writer, whom I do not remember his or her name, what's this guy like?
What should we expect? And though it took a very positive tone and sung the praises of Doug meetchim, his ability to be aggressive, his ability to develop talent, his ability to make things better than they were when he started, there was also a distinct tone of negativity. And it all came back to a third and one play I want to say against Texas Tech, where they ran a double reverse and it was like and I remember that
play because we talked about it. It never dawned on me that it stuck in the craw of TCU fans quite the way.
Well, you have that, right with a notre dame, like an individual or an individual moment. Everybody has that. But my point is no, for sure.
But my point is that everywhere I read about Doug Meatchum, that specific play kept coming up, that specific play kept coming up. That and and in this particular interview again and our friends Frogs of War go check them out a great TCU site. They talk about how, yes, he did great work with Josh Doson, but on the same note, it was almost like he forced the ball to him
too much, like everything had to go through Dockson. And so it was good for Dockson, it made him look good, but at the same time, it wasn't really a balanced offense. There were holes in that offense because it was so one dimensional. So I tried to spend that as best I could. I think in either case, you could do just fine as a wide receiver going to either of
these two schools. Lord knows there are going to be plenty of opportunities in an air raid or air raid like system to get yours if you are a standout wide receiver. I think that's ultimately what it comes down to. You probably will have, at least if recent memory is any indication, a better opportunity to play with a better quarterback if you go to Oklahoma State, because that's been a huge, a huge con on the whole TCU program
over the last five years. So maybe Max Duggan will be better in twenty twenty.
I don't know. I hope or we're fans.
Of Max, it does on the TCU poster will be BETTERCU poster. He's shown flat, he's for sure shown flashes, and he's a great dual thread in that you know, thirst you can get fourteen with his legs. But yeah, there have been some some questionable stretches, So we'll see. We'll see where it goes.
If if Max Duggan goes out there and has a banner year, perhaps this is an easier recruiting pitch to make. But I still like that just set up of putting yourself in a Gary Patterson system at a school that we know does have a track record for placement of talent, for development of talent. The other thing that I didn't really mentioned here because I don't know how corners all right, Oh sure, I didn't know how to spin the fact that TCU is is not typically a powerhouse when it
comes to recruiting. But one of the ways that Patterson has made his name is by developing that talent. So how do you pitch that to a kid who is like a four star obviously thinks he's that's easy.
How do you pitch that? How would you have pitched that? Well, you say, look what we've done with guys who were not as physically ready for the sport as you are Junkyard docks, and look, look we turned them into Imagine what we could do with you. The potential is tantalizing, right, tantalizing? Okay, tantalizing potential. And TCU has had some good classes, they have, they've resonated pretty well on the trail so much lately,
but yeah, it's been less so fairpoint. I feel like whatever the year is with sheewoh alona lua, is that how that was pronounced those classes in that time? Maybe it was like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty fourteen. I think they took advantage pretty well. You also didn't mention that TCU was beating Oklahoma State what three or four years. I don't think you mentioned that that. For all of my talk of big time football, TAC has recently owned the back and forth.
Can we submit that as exhibit A?
I don't think that's I don't think you can do it after the fact. Yeah, the Gundhy is a wild card thing. The quotes that he was he would call players by their numbers, not their names. I was prepared to address that, but I expected to hear that from you, that sort of negative recruiting, that like, how can you play for a guy who treats you as a number and not a name? My other my other angle was going to be to just flat out make stuff up. But I always have to. I don't think I have to.
I was surprised that you did not come back when I started talking about the ESPN Film Room. Gundhy's been on those things a bunch of times too, he hasn't.
I don't think it doesn't. It doesn't register with me as being important till a sixteen year old, seventeen year old it's on TV is important. Yeah, but they're not watching it like they're not watching they didn't watch. No, we aren't watching the film room. You're just watching the game. If you're sixteen seventeen, maybe after the facts, maybe they show it to you on your official visit.
No.
I definitely think a small private Christian university is going to have a different feel on an official visit than a huge school. Oklahoma state isn't Texas size, but I think it's about thirty thousand, so it's three times the size. So I wanted to push that. I wanted to push, you know, because big time in your DFW Greater area in Denton and the Blennikoff stuff that I mean, the TCU offense to me, and this is something we'll get
into more in the preview. It's just like, I don't know how you whiff on a quarterback at a school in Texas. I know it is one, Well what about.
The University of Texas? What about you.
Till they've gotten big commitments? And like Sam Ellinger was pretty good. Yeah, and he played starter for four years, right, I just I mean, I know it's difficult choosing the right guy and figuring it out how you know, to uh to uh to predict what they're gonna do. It's very tough. But yeah, the TCU offense. And there's like something I really don't like it when schools are just like, well it worked with these guys five years ago. Let's like roll it back with Doug Meatrim or roll it
back with you know, sunny compies. I think of Texas Tech, but I'm like I don't know. I think you have to evolve. I think you have to find, you know, up and comers. And that's what I liked about Gundy with You're sick and Holgerson and you know, dipping into Houston, dipping into Division too, dipping into you know, Todd Munkin
coming over from the NFL. Like there's a creativity about Oklahoma State and that offense, and they're they're both in weird places though, because Oklahoma State's offense has never been this bad. I expected you to hit that. I expected you to hit Spencer Sanders throwing interceptions. I saw Oklahoma State something like eighty first in points per drive last year. Uh and I spun it as far the past five years, finishing with the top fifty offense.
But interesting, Okay, I don't know.
I expected I expected you to hit. I was gonna hit back, but I didn't get that initial that initial damage.
So fine, I did my research at three in the morning, So give me able to be slack, All right, that's fine, right in soliverbo at gmail dot com us.
By the way, all of those businesses are real. Oh, I'm sure little Shop of Flowers, which is a great name. Spin City laundry. There's no way he made any of that stuff up. Don Evans window tint. And if Don Evans isn't all problematic, has done anything problematic? I take no credit a window tint companiation always has that chance, doesn't it.
Yeah?
Oh yeah, let me see, let me see what Don Evans looks like. Don Evans window tint. I always just a fantastic dude who likes car privacy. No relation man Bob who is down on the farm. Dude, Don Evans window tint is just like a hot with a seven up machine in front. But I just looked up places with good reviews and it has amazing reviews, So like Dawn has to be pretty cool. It's seventy three Google reviews.
Okay, that's not bad.
I don't know d by Stillwater High School. So what was the other business I mentioned? Balanced coffee and crouches heating and cooling crouches heating, And I actually think that is interesting, Like you brought up the Ohio state thing with nil and like Columbus is going to be a good place.
And people supported that.
By the way. People wrote in and said that I was actually selling Columbus short as a hub for business. We heard from people who worked for who work for Ohio State in the athletic department saying, ty, you're killing us here.
Yeah, that's a shit. That's a shit.
I think where I think. I was listening to our friend Ari Wasserman's podcast, It's an Ohio State show. He had Brian Windhorst on, and he brought up a good point that it's not necessarily the market, but it's the rabid fandom of the people in that market about that school that will help dictate how much a player might
be worth endorsing or selling or appearing in commercials, whatever. Whereas, even though a place like USC is in LA and bigger than Columbus or bigger than Stillwater or bigger than you know, Clemson, I don't you name it Lubbock, the people in LA by and large do not care about USC football unless it's like playing for national championship year in and year out. And Pete Carroll's a charismatic guy. There are many USC fans, but you're competing against the Los
Angeles Lakers, right, and the LA Dodgers. Whereas if you're in Columbus and I don't know how well the Blue Jackets are or were received or whatever. But like Columbus is only Ohio State and the state of Ohio is ninety whatever it is. I'm sure there are Cincinnati fans and Bobcat fans whatever, but that's an Ohio State state. So there is something about where in relation to how influential team fandom is that I think you didn't hit on with Columbus. That was should have been a direction
you went on. Not that like Columbus has all these huge corporations, but like Ohio State is the team in the state. There are Bengals and Browns fans, and maybe the Browns are I don't know, it's probably not the Indians or whatever the baseball team is called now. It should be the Spiders, right, that's a thing that people have talked about going back to that name. But yeah,
maybe it was the Calves briefly with Lebron. But like, I think that the magnitude of fandom has to be the hardest, has to be the fiercest for Ohio State. So I think that's that's the angle with how we talk about nil is like how influential are a team's players in this market, the heavyweight metro market.
Yeah, who's the heavyweight.
Yeah, so that's just it's going to be tougher like, Like it'll be easier for a Texas player because they're the show in Austin and a Texas A and M player maybe, although the proximity to Houston isn't necessarily an advantage, but in those like diehard college college college towns, Eugene, Oregon, South Bend, whatever, I think that it's gonna it's gonna resonate more as an influencer and an endorser.
All right, well, soliverblegmail dot com right in. You can also hit us up on social we know you will. Also going out to verbawlers dot com. Verbowlers dot com again is where you can find all of our Patreon stuff. Are tiers which we are working on, ever so diligently behind the scenes.
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Damn, I think that's all I got, All right, that's all I have. I'm good for.
That guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubenstein, form myself Tie Hildebrand. We will catch you all next week. In the meantime, as always during your weekend, stay solid, peace, Go pokes.