Welcome to the solid verbal hull. That for me. I'm a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say, well, I want to be happy. You want to be happy for a day? Ato steak is that woo woof?
And Dan and Tie welcome back to the Cliburbo boys and girls. My name is Ty hilden Brand joining me over there in tropical Chicago, Illinois.
Dan Rubinstein, sir, how are you pretty good? It's it is tropical, it's sixty plus degrees. I went for a run. I promptly got back eight Indian lentils and rice because I don't like filling up too much lunchtime, because I'm the type of person who can get slogged down by a big lunch. At around three fifteen pm, and then I saw that we had left over donuts, right because we had friends who brought over donuts for like a little park meet up yesterday and left us with the
left Because Chicago. Everybody likes to think of Chicago as like deep dish Italian beef whatever, like the touristy foods, Chicago may be America's best donut town. If you watched and remember any part of Wayne's world when they go to the donut shop and sure it is rife. If that's the word I'm looking for with donut excellence, La and Chicago are the best I've found. Well, this is why people tell me I'm way down. Nonetheless, as we're supposed to talk about ceilings at the moment, I would
come crashing through some ceiling. So here we are, Here we are.
It is getting warmer, at least here in the mid Atlantic. Over there in the Midwest. It got me to thinking, Dan, what is the threshold in your respective geography for going to the gas station and spotting your first.
Pair of gene shorts for the year.
We'll talk about that a little bit later on. My guess is, do you are you a jort community member? Like, are you are there jorts in your area? Are there shorts in my area? I'm in eastern Pennsylvania. This is exclusively George's territory. Khaki, you're in a hot zone. I'm in a hot zone. Yeah, a hotspot, a big deep red circle on the New York Times tracking index.
Yeah. Yeah, so like when when the government issues it's like stay away from these war torn hot zones. Yeah, you are in the midst of a gene torn if you will. That's correct, that's actually gone. Okay. I don't think I am, but I haven't spent a full summer here yet, so I'm happy to be proven wrong.
We will talk about this a little bit later. We do have pressing business to get to in the form of ceilings with y'all address moment artily. Don't forget to subscribe to the show if you haven't already, going out solibble dot com up a right hand corner gives you all the links that you need.
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It's poppin'. Yeah. I like it.
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Daniel, here you go.
Okay, should we start with news? Do you want to talk about a large bit of news? Sure?
I don't know if you have to sound out wow.
Wow, that was very loud in my years.
Is that loud for you? Yeah? Yeah, like a ton of bricks. So so, speaking of ceilings, we should mention a program with arguably the lowest or second lowest floor, depending on how you feel about the depths of where Utgers has fallen but is climbing out of. Right now. The Kansas Jayhawks employee Less Miles at the time of this recording. Correct, correct, Yeah, hard to see lasting a ton longer. I don't laugh because I'm making fun of the severity of everything that's swirling in the Less Miles
universe right now. But a report was made public about his time at LSU that in twenty twelve he acted extremely inappropriately and made advances towards women who were students at LSU and involved in the football program, and came onto them and had a condo and just was driving them and just it's really ugly. And even more details about what was covered up or thrown under the rug in terms of how players and of course less Miles treated women during that time. You know, some of it
had already come out and was known. Some of it was not, you know, an accusation around Darius Geis and sexually harassing and all older security guard like really ugly, ugly stuff. Anyway, and that was I believe post miles if I remember correctly, But in any case, it was
within the LSU program. But in terms of less Miles specific alleged actions, it looks like Joe Leiva, the former AD of LSU, recommended that they terminate less Miles with cause in twenty thirteen after the investigation into what he was doing in twenty twelve, and that was shot down by people up above his pay grade. In any case, the reflection on less Miles now the reflection on Kansas and Jeff Long, the current AD one of the people that I'm sure was in charge of the vetting of
less Miles, and it's bad, It's real bad. It's a terrible reflection on some pretty horrible, awful accusations.
Well, and now he's been placed on administrative leaving. As we mentioned that that happened on Friday, And to your point, it's hard to see how that's going to be a tenable situation moving forward.
Also interesting in retrospect, it's always easier in retrospect. Hi in retrospect that less Miles, after the successes he had and obviously the shortcomings that he did as a pure on field football coach, wins and losses, coach, interviewed for jobs, jobs that were looking look like they were far not beneath but clearly smaller jobs than what he had at LSU, and just was bouncing around like not able to secure a job, not able to get an interview at big places,
not able to nail interviews at smaller places, and perhaps in search firm some schools better at vetting than others, or makes sense, better able to make peace with moving on from less Miles than what Kansas was able to do. So it is my assumption that less Miles won't be coaching at Kansas this fall, and Kansas once again back to the drawing board if that's the case. After a string of pretty awful hires in terms of turning Kansas football round, Charlie Weiss, Turner, Gale David Beatty and now
Les Miles who I think probably stood the least chance. Yeah, well, look, we to succeed.
We talked about this time and again here. Yeah, in the beginning, the move to go and get less miles before any of this stuff was common knowledge, it was met with mixed reviews. There was one camp where it was like, hey, it's Kansas, what could happen?
It's less miles.
He's right, they'll never be able to do better than a national championship winning coach, right.
So there was that school of thought.
There was the other school of thought, which honestly I think was a little bit more vociferous, and that was what are we doing here? Why are we going back to the Well, we're going to hire an older coach. He's not going to have a long shelf life. It's more of a pr stunt, right. So, look, whatever camp you were in, it doesn't seem like it's in a
good spot now. It's probably all headed to the same place, and Kansas may well find itself in a position soon enough where they have to take another crack at hiring somebody else. We talked about that situation as well. It's the wrong time of year, the wrong time of year, but what does it take if you are Kansas, to try and dig yourself out of this hole, to move forward, to put yourself back on the straight and narrow.
It's going to be a tough place to do that.
I don't think it's impossible, but certainly on the heels of this it doesn't.
Wouldn't I should say, leave them in a great spot. It's also just an especially awful institutional look that you have this outside firm come in and investigate the allegations and come to the conclusion that a ton of inappropriate activity took place, and the ad say, you know, we
got to get rid of this kai. And now maybe it appears that the judgment was they were not going to be able to in court get away with say less Miles was terminated for reasonable cause, and that they would still have to owe him whatever it was, the fifteen million dollars. But such an astonishingly awful institutional look for the boss or one of the bosses to say, yeah,
we got to get rid of this guy. That's my appraisal of the situation, and people above him say, now, we're good because he's a powerful dude who wins football games. It's look, this is a cultural element of this sport. We love that we have to make peace with in our own way, but man, when specifics come out, it's
a terrible, terrible thing to read. And I just hope the women who were involved with this were able to sort of find peace with being treated horribly because I can't imagine the situation they were put in.
Yeah, and to the point of Booster's Dan, We're not going to cover on this show, but I believe a report is due out at the University of Texas and it seems as if there is a heavy Booster influence on that one as well. Regarding we saw the Texas Monthly. Yeah, yeah, some other stuff, So more to come on that front. We won't get out over our skis there. We'll talk a little bit more about that on Thursday.
But I believe that was an internal investigation turn away, Yeah, both into the Eyes of Texas. So I don't know whatever stock you put into an institution investigating itself, but yeah, that was the foyer stuff of all the emails that came in during the Eyes of Texas controversy among players and students, finding that the origins of the song were not befitting of the University of Texas. So yeah, going on more to come on that on Thursday.
Anything else of note, Dan, anything else in the COLLEGEO ball news radar?
No, I mean We're going to still see more and more transfers. I'm interested to see what kind of spring football we get with you know, some protocols still in place, but people getting vaccinated. We certainly have older coaches, which is good news for them if they're able to stay healthy.
And interesting to see what happens with the transfer portal, you know, shifting back to the less important thing, but looking what the transfer portal has to offer after spring football, Guys getting beat out, guys fully making a decision that they want to be somewhere else. It'll be interesting to see as the pieces continue to shuffle across the sport.
Tom Allen got a one million dollar annual raise in a new deal for him. Good for him, l e O seems like, as we posted on Twitter, a really good value by for Indiana. Also, Randy Etzel Randy edzelll get a two year extension. How about that at you conn our boy? Yeah, I mean we didn't lose this season. The feel good story of stores. All right, shall we
get to our game Djore, let's do that. We put out a call on the old Twitter sphere a little bit ago around one o'clock Eastern time, and say, look, your team in this scenario, it's not Alabama, it's not Clemson, it's not Ohio State. What is your team's win slash bowl ceiling? It can be either your current team's potential, your team's potential potential, it could be another team altogether, any timebox you want to put on it, right, But tell us more about your team.
Yeah, if you want to tell me your team doesn't have a ceiling of a certain number of games or a certain bowl game, but you just want to say, yeah, my team has a ceiling of competent competitive vibes, I'm good with that. That's a ceiling for sure.
So we got a very specific one here from a gentleman who goes by j Train of Jolly on Twitter.
Well, first of all, can can we define things as well before we talk about it? Sure? So to you what determines the ceiling, like when you are going to weigh in on any of these teams, Penn State, Nebraska, Utah, Texas Tech, whatever, What What do you think about? What? What helps? What propels a team to its ceiling, like, there are a number of factors, right, sure, So what are you considering in terms of like how a team
actually gets there where? What propels a rocket? Boosters? What are the that's a good wal tied to college football? I think boosters. What are the boosters here?
I think that's the more interesting way to frame the question, because anybody could say Notre Dame ceiling is probably making the playoffs and as somebody pointed out, losing by two to three scores. Okay, anybody can.
Mean it's one of the more proven situations. Yeah football, Yeah.
It's it's not exactly guess and check, but anybody can put a number on it and say, well, case State, case States may be a low key Big twelve contender.
I would agree, Yeah, I mean I went to the Fiesta bal within the decade, I believe. I think I think the real question that is how to get there? What?
What is what is the propellant to get that team to that place?
It's a combination of factors.
First off, I think it's got to be something on the recruiting slash talent development front.
If you're not recruiting.
Well well enough, if you're not like Matt Campbell and developing the talent that you get. It's going to be hard to try and build up anything right. Secondly, I think you need to have some degree of coaching stability. You know, poor Florida State, Florida Florida State has had so much coaching turnover in the last five years.
It's tough to establish momentum. It is hard. How do you do it? Or if you're swapping out.
Coordinators like we've seen, like, it's hard, it's hard to establish that momentum. So combination obviously of recruiting, developing talent, some amount of coaching stability. Doesn't mean like everybody has to stay, but you need to at least have an Alabama situation. You've got a good, strong leader at the top to set the tone and establish a template for those underlings. And then I would also say that you know, there needs to be a favorable setup with your schedule,
with your conference. There needs to be an opening. It needs to be an opening. I'm not going to come out here and say that I feel great about Mississippi State's chances to win the SEC West. I'm not right, it's not realistic. What's the opening there?
What needle.
Are we threading to get to the top of the SEC West? It does not feel realistic to me. Now, could a team like I don't know, Virginia pave a way to win it's side of the ACC maybe good talk about that seems more practical to me.
But we got to be realistic. Well, I was just going to say, it's it's sort of nature versus nature. It's the nature of your own wiring. So whatever you're able to do to control things internally and then the nature of your division or conference. Now, the easiest way to hit your ceiling is to have amazing coaches and amazing players. You're going to beat everybody you play if you have essentially, I mean, you will likely beat everybody you play if you have a talent and coaching advantage.
Now short of that, which is why we said, I don't want to hear from Alabama, Ohio State, and Clemson fans because that's the scenario with them, and I guess, to a smaller extent Oklahoma, but they seem to be losing it at least a more it's a more common occurrence. And that's still an Oklahoma team than program that's just elite and excellent. I think the point you made about
situation is fascinating to me. So if you take that twenty twelve, I believe Kansas State team, that's Colin Klein, and that's a big twelve that has this incredible axis of mediocrity Texas five and four, Oklahoma State five and four, Baler four and five, TCU four and five, Texas Tech four and five, West Virginia four and five. So if you are able to prove that you are good, maybe not great, but good to really good in a conference
with a lot of sh medium, then you rise. Now you can also get to a point where you are hitting on all cylinders. So let's say you have one of the best, and I think this is the situation for teams basically everybody in college football. You probably need to have one of your five to seven best quarterbacks ever, right, No, I think that's an element. I think you have to
have health luck. I think you need to have health situation. Well, yeah, health, lack of attrition, which you mentioned, especially with coaches, but I even think just you know, you don't have a position group decimated by injuries, and so we have teams that have made the playoff have gone to conference championship games, gone to New Year six games that don't necessarily find
themselves in that position a lot. So you look at you know, Michigan State and Iowa, and you know Washington made up playoff game, and you know, Stanford had a really nice run. But and this is not an asterisk territory that I'm going to, but there are a finite number of wins to be had in a conference. And if there are a bunch of ohn eight two and sevens one in six, whatever it is, in the bottom of that conference, you just you can pick up wins.
You can pick up cheap wins in those conferences, and it makes it so much easier to get to I mean, I don't say this in a bad way, but like Syracuse a couple of years ago, they picked up cheap wins. And that's okay because that's what good teams and good programs do all the time. You look at Clemson. Clemson has hit their ceiling and they're still at their ceiling. But it coincides with Florida State throwing a bunch of wins to the acc right right right, And that's okay
because that's what excellent teams do. And so you know, Colorado pops up and wins the Pac twelve West the year under Mike McIntyre. I believe that was a four and eight Oregon season. So you have these situations that teams that are not winning nine, ten to eleven games, eight games, whatever, that all that often you need to rise. And we make this analogy sometimes where it's really good to draft behind the opportunity truck. So when things start
falling off, you're right there. You're at like what is the you want to road podcast or what's the name of the unit that you want to pick up to upgrade your audio.
We're looking at the road cast pro at the moment.
Road cast or pro. Yeah, So if you're you just want to be drafted off that road cast or pro truck and if a few fall off and nobody says anything there, you were to pick them up, Tie.
I would be fine with that. I would so fine with that.
In this scenario, like a team who hasn't necessarily been winning a bunch of games and is suddenly looking excellent Iowa State. Iowa State is in this position because they have a good coach, they look like they have a good culture, they look like they've recruited really smartly and developed really well. But also there are some extremely down teams in the Big twelve right now, and so Iowa State is good enough to pick up those wins drafting behind the opportunity truck. How about so.
How about Indiana? In twenty twenty, Indiana had their quarterback go down too. Yep, their quarterback went down and they still turned in an incredible season.
Weird year, blah blah blah. We all know that.
But if you want to talk about how you build it, Tom Allen's been doing the slow burn. It has been the slow burn. I'm not going to say recruiting has been off the charts, but he's done a really good job developing the talent there. He's done a really good job, I think, building that culture from within. And it just so happens that in twenty twenty we had a situation where Penn State was down.
Yeah, Michigan, Michigan was down. Penn State and Michigan combined to go six and nine. Nice, So it's in Michigan State's two and five, like the like. These are the things that the opportunity truck presents, And maybe it wasn't Maryland's ere to take advantage, or Wisconsin's eer or Minnesota's here to take advantage. But when everything tends to come together, quarterback depth, upper classmen, coaches and players on the same page,
that's when you get the nine Windiana pursuit. And we see it every year.
Every year there's a team that benefits, and it could be from schedule, it could be from a number of different factors, maybe getting a top recruit, a diamond in the rough. We see this pretty constantly throughout college football. Each year there's a different team that kind of steps up and bubbles up in a way that a lot of folks didn't see coming. And that's okay, that's okay. We're not necessarily talking about continued success with this question.
We're just talking about what's the ceiling. If there's that one year spike, what's the ceiling.
Isn't that Also, by the way, the enduring success and reputation and legacy of Nick say been that up SEC down SEC doesn't matter, coaches leave, coaches, state doesn't matter, every year doesn't matter. Greatest coach of all time, Yeah, they've been the most. I'm not gonna say there isn't
some context, but the most context free winning program. Because you look at the other programs who sustained success for four or five, seven, nine years or whatever, you can say like, oh, well, this other superpower was extremely down even like my team, the Oregon Ducks, USC was sloping downward because of the sanctions as Oregon was ascending. And you look at the PAC twelve and USC was incredible,
not all that great. So, but there's something with Alabama, which is why we're not talking about them, because they've already proven the case out that their ceiling is above everybody else's historically. That's you need factors plural.
Yeah, all right, well let's let's dive in then. So we got some really interesting answers on Twitter. Jaytrein Okay says, for Florida's ceiling, we could go twelve to one, make the playoffs to compete for a national championship. Realistically, though, until Todd Grantham either gets fired or somehow the defense improves, we will likely be SEC East champions and losing the championship game, ending up with a New Year six Bowl game.
Is it Todd Grantham?
Dan?
Is it Todd Grantham holding Florida Beck? I don't know. We've had good Todd Grantham defenses, but have we had championship caliber Todd Grantham defenses. Unclear to me. I don't think that is. I think part of it is recruiting on defense in terms of sheer depth of NFL level talent for Florida on defense has fallen off some if you look the last couple of years, in the last couple of classes and the development thereof. But I think he kind of nailed it. I think there's there's something
lacking with Florida. You have to imagine with I'm sure Kyle Trask will be drafted at some point and Dan Mullen's quarterback reputation between you know, the little bit of Cam Newton, Tim Tebow of course Dak probably not Nick Fitzgerald in that conversation, but Kyle Trask turning a backup into what Kyle Trask became. They're going to be able to recruit quarterbacks, they're going to be able to attract skill talent, and they'll be able to attract NFL talent.
But that defense right now seems to be a not clearly solvable issue under Todd Grantham.
And my how quickly things have turned because it wasn't all that long ago we were talking about Florida like we were talking about Michigan, a team that was led primarily by defense, offense really none to speak of. It seems as if a lot of that has flipped Florida. No questions about Florida's offense, but getting that defense now up to speed, I think is.
Going to be job number one for Dan Mullen. Yeah. When Jeff Collins was running things, it was incredible. Yeah, it was great.
Yeah, So I I think I tend to agree. This is another one though, where situationally, it's very difficult. It's very difficult to get past that SEC championship game and forge ahead into the playoff because in all likelihood you're dealing with an undefeated Alabama and that's just not an easy scenario. I don't care who you are, how good your players are, going up against luck Saban in this current mold is really difficult.
All that said, Florida's ceiling potentially, because we've seen it in the last now fifteen years. It's a player national championship caliber program.
It's a playoffs, it's competing for national championship for sure.
For sure. Heisman conversation quarterback plus NFL level speed and creativity on offense, and health on defense and sound defensive scheme and development, they can beat Alabama. They were within not that many points this year when the defense was
not all that amazing. So if they're actors together on defense, their ceiling is Dan Mullum holding up a trophy to me, there are one of the very few clear national championship caliber programs because of the level of talent that can be amassed in Gainesville.
Yeah, and we have a couple teams that I think fall into that category. And these are true national championship let's put this way, true playoff contenders who if all goes right, could potentially get a crack at the title. Oklahoma falls into that category. I think are wrung above Florida. It's an easier path to get there for the Sooners.
They've been there.
Oklahoma falls in that category. Georgia certainly falls in that category as well. Maybe a rung about both of them, to be honest, given recent success. Notre Dames in that conversation, they've made the playoff a couple times now would obviously like a different result when they get there, But they're certainly in that discussion. Where's Oregon at is organ that playoff conversation continuously, Well.
First of all, I want to sort of dive into a little bit of Oklahoma just because their ceiling is with a good defense, they can win a national championship, good like top fifteen in the country, which they are trending in the right direction right now, and they have found themselves in national championship games they want last won a national championship what twenty twenty one years ago, So the talent, the ability to find a best five or seven quarterback of all time is there. So they're a
national championship caliber program. Even though recent results suggest that their ceiling is just short of that. That does not seem like an unfixable thing or a situation where they're just not going to be able to attract the talent to fill out a deep, nasty defense. So yeah, they absolutely do have that. Oregon does seem like they have a more pronounced ceiling just because I mean, the path is fantastic right now. There is no clear and obvious
threat in the Pac twelve North. And in terms of a proven commodity, a killerrette quarterback, you know, all the things that you'd like to see. The problem is Oregon themselves does not have a proven quarterback, but they have been one of the best schools in the country in terms of attracting high level quarterbacks and developing high level quarterbacks. They've had a recent Heisman winner. They just they attract
good players. The problem to me with Oregon is when they get to the playoff, and I know they beat Florida State, they're I think the only Pac twelve team with a playoff win. Believe that's true. The problem is once they're there, there is an element of organ that under Mario Cristaball I don't fully trust in terms of stubbornness and what and I know they're getting very close in terms of total depth of talent. There is something
that scares me. Now. They were essentially Michael Dyer away from winning a national championship, so I would say they are, you know, a careless whisper away from being a national championship program. But I think they're ceiling right now.
Is playoff team, yeah, and they do have a favorable pathway in But the problem is the problem is this trying to get in over in Oklahoma, trying to get in over a team out of the Big Ten, the ACC.
The SEC.
It's it's a difficult spot for the Pac twelve to be in because I feel like it, like it was one thing, and this is probably the wrong way to put it, but when Oregon under Chip Kelly was setting the world on fire with its Neon uniforms and crazy fun to watch offense, that was a team that, again, rightly or wrongly, you wanted to see in the playoff. You wanted to see that team in the TV.
Yeah, this is a.
Different Oregon team. It's still a good Oregon team. It's a more physical Oregon team under Marrio Crystoball. And I'm not saying I don't want to see them in the playoff. But it's a much different conversation now when you've got high flying Oklahoma, when you've got unstoppable Alabama and Clemson, and then you've got a team like an Ohio State
or a Penn State or even a Notre Dame. It's it's a difficult conversation, a much more difficult conversation to have nowadays than it was under Chip Kelly.
In my Here's the other thing, and this I think has to do with everybody, but it's how good are you at attracting a high level head coach who then can recruit both coaches and players to that program, retain those coaches for as long as humanly possible if they're very, very good, and then go out and have to replace often if you do have a good eye for assistant coaches. Oregon hired Willie Taggart. Oregon couldn't attract the head coach
of Temple to Eugene Oregon. He instead took the job in Waco because he felt like that was going to be and now they gave him a seven year deal and I understand that. But Baylor, who has had no real history recently, I know, you know, they have the Brill's years where they score a ton of points and they have a good national team. But Oregon has been a better program, and a coach selects Baylor over Oregon,
and so they go to Willie Taggert. It's how far down the roster of backup offers to head coaches do you have to go? And that's where, like you mentioned a team like Oklahoma or Notre Dame, even though their results, you know they've they've had similar stretches. Both Oklahoma and Notre Dame and are a better place right now? Is what can you attract to that place in terms of coaching talent, And that's yet to be seen as a
strength of Oregon right now. Their best coach ever was a New Hampshire offensive coordinator, which is not necessarily a sustainable model for success. So that to me lowers their sealing. That careless whisper.
Notre Dame, I think is a true quarterback away. You know, we've covered this ground time and again. There a true quarterback away from I think getting to that playoff and being a serious threat.
Here's a question, though, and I want to tie both of your teams together because we got responses about both of these teams. Why can't Notre Dame and Penn State find a high high level recruit or develop a medium to high level recruit into something special. So Penn State's best modern quarterback was I guess, depending on your vantage point, either freshman year Christian Hackenberg or twenty was it twenty seventeen?
Twenty eighteen, No, twenty seventeen, Trace mcsoriy, Trace McSorley. Yeah, right, So you have one season of excellence or very goodness from Trace mcsory. But then you go back ten fifteen years you're like, well, I mean Darryl Clark was fun, but like, they just have not been able to traditionally. Matt mcgloin's fine, but they are not able to both of these schools. You have a really good statistical year from Jimmy Claus in a losing season. What is it
about those two places? And I don't know, I don't have an answer. Maybe you do. Well, it's like they can't find it. They can't find and develop a like let's have a conversation deep into October about whether this quarterback is Heisman caliber. Yeah, I mean I.
Hate looking back like twenty five years. I let's say so, let's keep it. Let's keep it in the present with the current situation. The Penn State one is easy. James Franklin and Christian Hackenberg wasn't exactly a marriage made in heaven. But the trace Big Sorely thing under Joe moorehead was electric and that was exciting and that propelled the early part of Franklin's tenure in State College. I mean, it
just it was incredible. Trace Saquon Chris Godwin on some of those teams like these are really awesome college players who that offense. Yeah, for sure. So look, I think there's definitely a lot less to go on with Franklin than someone like a Brian Kelly. But on Franklin's side, the Clifford thing hasn't worked out the last two years. I'm all but certain they're going to end up going
in a different direction. I don't know if it's with a guy like a Taekwon Roberson or if it's Christian v Oh, they're going to go in a different direction. I think they have to at quarterback and especially bringing in Mike Yersich, I just think it's inevitable that Clifford's not long for that job. On the Notre Dame side of things, you know, it's really an interesting case for Brian Kelly because so much of the recruiting elsewhere has been awesome. They have done a great job turning out
pro talent along both offensive end defensive lines. They've developed the tight end position, they've had standout wide receivers, the two spots I guess.
All American defenders. Yeah, yeah, the.
Two spots that I guess I would point to or really haven't had that high high level talent cornerback and I think quar turnback.
They just haven't they.
Yeah, it's big, and you know what affects you against the past, the other inhibits your ability to pass. And they've had flashes here and there. You know, that first year with Deshaun Kais was really good. Even the second year under Deshaun Kaiser was pretty good, but even that felt a little bit like catching lightning in a bottle. It was by virtue of an injury that they were.
But it's all relative to their ceiling as well. Pretty good is not going to get you to Notre Dame. Notre Dame ceiling is. I think it is where we see it. I think it's right. I think it's right there. Yeah, I don't think I think they're a national championship caliber program with like an additional half a booster, Like what with what they have right now, they're going to peter out as a playoff team. Yeah.
Look, you could argue, you could argue that the job that Ryan Kelly did with Ian Book was outstanding, that he developed him into a good enough quarterback to run a system, a specific system that got them through to the playoff. That was a successful campaign that was like the most successful quarterback campaign in the history of Notre Dame quarterback campaigns in terms of wins and losses. Ebook was very good. He just wasn't good enough to elevate
them above the likes of like a Trevor Lawrence. And that's saying something, right, that's pretty damn good. Why haven't they got that generational quarterback yet?
I don't know.
Maybe it's just dumb luck. I don't have an answer. I don't have a specific answer for that. Guys who are supposed to be that, but I don't know. I think a lot of it too. And it goes to Penn State as well. Is it's not just recruiting, it's recruiting strategy because if I remember correctly, Penn State had a commitment from Justin Fields and so the evaluation was there. Justin Field was a no brainer as a recruit. James Franklin convinced him to go to Penn State from Georgia.
Is that smart to put your eggs in the basket of a quarterback that far away, who is that pursued and lives in a state and a region now obviously ends up leaving the region. But is that smart given the precious, he's going to feel to stay home to
risk it all. It probably is because you have to have that kind of confidence in a program of Penn State size, that you have the confidence that, like, of course, the best quarterback in the country or one of the best two quarterbacks in the country is going to come to our school.
We are Penn State. Literally it says we are, So you have to have that confidence. But also when it doesn't work out, if there's no not necessarily backup plan, but no way to organize around not getting that guy, it feels like a risk without much of a net. And that's what now has come to fruition, it seems. Yeah, all right, some other responsible way I think. I think
Penn State ceiling is opponent irrelevant. So the best of Penn State can win the Big Ten, no matter how good or bad Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, whoever is because the best of Penn State involves an excellent defense and a creative, effective offense. So the best of Penn State, I don't know if it's a playoff winning team, but it's a playoff semi team. It's a playoff semi team for sure. Yeah.
Some other answers that we got here. I'll run the full spectrum from National power to Missouri.
Whoa unnecessary slam at Missoo, we love you Como at least I do, Davis says with drink Witz at Missoo.
I have to say my expectations are to eventually have nine to ten win seasons. That feels like the ceiling now, giving the trend in the SEC. I'll tell you if Mszoos win a ten games, it's a hell of a year. And I like you I drink, I like Eli Drink.
It's a lot.
Excuse me, but it might take a little bit to get there. But I do believe in him. Uh he's excitable. You gotta love that about him.
Miszoos won the East twice in the last decade. If my math is correct, Yes, I've ended up in the SEC championship game. I think that's probably the ceiling and their opponent dependent very much so very much so. Georgia Florida, Georgia Florida, both Georgia Florida. One of the two needs to be down. I have no idea what to make of Tennessee long term, because nobody does other than just like expect a little bit less than you think you should.
So they're opponent dependent, but also they've proven themselves able to attract talent and develop talent. Now it's hard to say, just like Missoo in general because these are different coaches. Is a different program, but the program is set up to win the programs in a major conference. The program, when they do succeed a little bit, can attract talent. I think they are ten wins in the short term seems ambitious. I'd put them at probably nine with help.
But if things break and the health is unusually amazing, Yeah, it's winning the East. It's absolutely winning the East, especially if they have a bunch of upperclassmen and one of the quote unquote traditional powers in Georgia Florida is you know, hitting a run of mediocrity.
We've got Vandy here. The number one goal the next three years is a winning season, including a bowl win. Ceiling for US is likely number three in the SEC East in a complimentary bowl game outside of the state, hopefully in parentheses. Clerk Lee taking over at Vandy. We know that clerk Lee.
Really wanted that job.
He really wanted that job because he could have held out with the defense. He had built at Notre Dame and gotten a higher profile gig. There was any question about that, but he wanted Vandy. He has a familiarity with Vandy, and it excitedly took that job. A winning season has been done. It has been done. James Franklin did it at Vandy. Derek Mason, you know from the grow.
But interesting stretches of defense.
I think I think that's entirely possible in the next three years at Vandy under Clarkley.
So twenty twelve, Vanderbilt goes nine to four, five and three in the SEC and they finished the season ranked in the top twenty five. Amaze. No, you probably don't have the standings in front of you, but I do. Do you know how many wins these six teams or just the bottom six teams that year Missoo, Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Auburn, Ole, miss combined to win in the SEC. Six teams combined to win five games Miszoo two and six, Tennessee one
and seven, Kentucky, Ohn eight. That's a joker Phillips team, Arkansas two and six, Auburn O and eight. Jean Chisick gets fired. That's the Scott Leffler BVG year Ole miss Oho to five. I believe this is Hugh Freeze's first that they vacated Wins.
Yeah, this is the opportunity truck we were talking about earlier.
So Vandy needs that, you know, that air horn Hong Hong. They they are so dependent. Now what is Vandy's ceiling in terms of what they can do within the program? Well, they can recruit smart. I mean, obviously Clark Lee is looking at his job as can I be the Pat Fitzgerald of the SEC East, in which year over year, basically forever and ever, there's a baseline and a floor that's pretty high of competence that they get guys who
buy in. They play a very specific system in both cases defense and offensively, searching for efficiency as the absolute best, probably because that's what Northwestern has been able to get by with. But right now and in the long term, I feel actually pretty good about Vanderbilt getting somewhat close to the opportunity truck because the East is not in
an amazing place. South Carolina is starting over again Miszoo and its infancy with a new coach, Tennessee, Kentucky starting over, Kentucky not starting over but they are down right now. It's because of that offense, but they've had a good defense and they did just hit a ceiling recently. So Kentucky, I would say, is a decent spot. I'd take it back. But Mississippi State's in a down place in infancy. Arkansas interesting,
but you know it's going to take a while. Auburn's starting over, Ole miss starting over but promising, but defense was pretty atrocious. So Vandy has a truck opportunity, but they don't internally have much. So I'd say with the right drafting, I'll put it right now long term at six, Yeah, I mean I think that's the and it's a good expert winning season. I guess if you get crazy lucky with a bowl match up, yeah, you can get to seven and six.
Yeah, I mean it's going to require you to win what two sec games.
To s Yeah, it'll required no, maybe three, two or three on the table. Three with your non con it probably means getting either extremely lucky with a high school quarterback, or Clark Lee and his coaching staff clicking with a pretty good transfer, a proven transfer having a good defense. The Nashville thing is interesting to me. I am not a big believer. I've said this before in being able to recruit to bigger cities and hit ceilings in those
big cities. I guess we'll see with Texas. But right now, in the modern era, I think there's so much distracting about recruiting to a city as opposed to a town that I don't know. I don't know if Nashville is the allure that it is to sports writers as it is like seventeen year olds. But here's what you hear a lot of sports writers saying, oh my god, it's a no brainer, I can go to college in Nashville. Like I don't think. I think kids just want to go where they get developed to be NFL players now.
But my point on Vandy is they're not exactly scheduling goliaths in the non con. They've got a game against Stanton think this coming year, which is a nice game for them, But otherwise Eastern Tennessee, Colorado State, Yukon, those are winnable games.
Those are winnable games.
In a circumstance where Clarkley has built up something of a of a foundation, you can win those games. So I don't know. I think I think six and six is is right for that? Let's go through some other ones here real quick. So I mentioned UCF, and Josh says, I went to UCF. I know for a fact the ceiling is New Year's New Year's Bowl Game. I got the receipts to prove it too. The group of five
teams very interesting to me. Okay, very interesting to me because the obvious answer is, of course New Year's six, rightly or wrongly. Is there a scenario in which a group of five teams ceiling is actually the playoffs?
No, but I still think it's fascinating it does. The playoff doesn't matter to me with regard to I mean, basically most teams in twenty twenty one. No, I guess depends.
No.
I'm just gonna stick with no. But I'm curious about certain schools that have had success or should have success on the G five level, which is still the FBS level. What schools are interesting to you five? I mean, like you see, if we know yep, we know they can go undefeated, they can beat good teams that are Power five teams. Whatever. Houston, I think, ah man, it felt like they were hitting that with Tom Herman with some flaws offensive flaws they should be. I don't think they
will be under Dana Holgerson. But yeah that Houston has that that high high ceiling. Cincinnati has that hig high ceiling. Cincinnati absolutely does.
See Cincinnati has the defensive component that oftentimes you don't see from group of fives. That that's been the knock right on teams like UF in the past.
We've had some really good Boise defenses, San Diego State defenses, but yeah, on that high high New Year six level, Yeah, you're right, I mean you defense is essentially what led them to that season. But yeah, I mean they have this crazy efficient offense and fun offense, but it is the defense that was really doing a lion's share of the work. I'm gonna say, Yeah, I'm trying to think, like, who is the most fascinating group of five teams in terms of a ceiling we have hit yet? We know
Boise State ceiling. Yeah, But like, so is it Fresn. You know, San Jose was definitely an opportunity situation with a down Fresno and San Diego State lost a couple of times. I believe it's just weird season in general, but they really improve things internally. But man. I mean, I know we like to focus on the American but I don't know. Conference USA, like Charlotte has an interesting ceiling. They go on that run a couple of years ago. But I don't know if you're good in that area.
It's tough to become a forty nine er. It's tough to like build up that that class of killers year over year, just because you know, if Will Healy goes whatever ten and two, this, he's gone. He's just gonna He's gone.
He's gone, all right. Some other answers here that came in. Nicholas writes in about Michigan. He says, Michigan's ceiling is to start ten and one, be competitive again to Ohio State in the first half, and then lose a bowl game somewhere in the state of Florida. A pessimistic fan of the Wolverines, Nicholas, what is.
Michigan's ceiling are they? I mean, Michigan fans, obviously, what have you believed that they're a national champion caliber program? It's haven't they haven't been to the playoff?
Yeah, this is where this is where there's a room for interpretation historically, historically now Michigan's absolutely a national championship caliber program. It's a blue blood historically. Recently, though, the way things have been trending, I think Nicholas a spot on here. I think the conference championship is sort of the upper rung of where we're at. Can they get back to being playoff contenders? Absolutely, And I don't think it takes much to get them there, because recruiting still
has been really strong at Michigan. But just if we take the pri that we've seen on the field, I mean, your absolute upper rung, everything going blessed me, thank you, absolute upper rung, everything going according to plan, opportunity truck driving in front of you, Ohio State getting a new quarterback right in twenty twenty one, Penn State still trying to do the thing with Sean Clifford, Michigan finding its way,
maybe with British comedy legend Allan Bowman. It's probably the Big Ten conference at best.
I think so. I think they just occupying a division with Ohio State, who seems to be set up for the long term in a way that they're only going to grow stronger somehow. It is very difficult to start to compete against like It's going to take years for Michigan to get to a place where they could just happen to beat Ohio State twenty eight to seventeen would do it. But the confidence and ability to be a
program that is eleven points better than Ohio State. We've seen Ohio State lose to lesser teams, but Michigan right now, it's almost institutional, like, are we willing to do whatever it takes? Are we willing to pay coordinators an obscene amount of money to keep them if they're excellent and
everybody's trying to hire them? Are we willing to recruit in a fashion that sometimes Michigan is unwilling to allegedly And I don't make any value judgments, but that is something that separates allegedly Michigan from some of the big, big, big national powers that Michigan no longer is. Is there that element of Michigan saying internally externally are they broadcasting we will do whatever it takes. Now they're paying Jim Harbor a bunch of money, though now they're paying them
less money. They went after a huge fish as a head coach and it worked out in terms of they got hit. So that was a big success. But with regard to developing guys, with regard to saying, look at all of these NFL players that we're developing. With regard to this is this quarterback who's a Heisman contender, which is what all of the schools that they fancy themselves to be in the company of Ohio State, Clemson, in Alabama, Jority, Oh,
you know whatever, Oklahoma, I don't know. I think there is still that element of we do things the Capitol are right way to Michigan that gives them that ceiling that you and was it Nate Nick talked about of Nicholas. Yeah, ten to eleven wins, but not competing with Ohio State or losing something dumb to Iowa or Wisconsin or Penn State or a team like that that is going to hold them back from becoming a true killer. I think Michigan does self impose and have the bad luck of
having Ohio State and the division. They they have that ceiling. So, yeah, ten and eleven and one not a national championship program.
I think to go up or wrong, it's without Harball at this point. And that's that's not because I think Harball is a bad coach. I think it was incredible hire to go out and get Jim Harbaugh at there was We had conversations I remember what the distinctly conversations with Brian Cook from m GO blog around the time that these horrorball rumors were heating up. And I'm not even sure he believed it. You know, among the most connected in the Michigan universe, I'm not even sure he
believed that that was a possibility. They went out and they got him. It's a huge hire. I don't believe it.
Yeah, yeah, I mean neither.
It hasn't really worked out the way that they had hoped, but it was. It was a noble effort and they paid for it handsobly. But a noble effort hasn't quite worked out. And Harbaugh has this track record of places that he's been, whether it's in college or the pros or you name it. He sort of burns people out around him, and he burns himself out a little bit as well. I just don't see him being long for ann Arbor. I think if they really want to achieve their their maximum, I mean.
He already is kind of long fran Arbor well, okay for seven years or something. Looking forward, yeah, okay.
Moving forward, I don't think it's going to be a long term solution, and I think if they want to get back to that mountaintop, it's going to be with somebody else.
But they also, for whatever reason, this is just me pulling it out of thin air, they feel like in perpetuity, how much it takes in terms of luck, in terms of recruiting, in terms of coaching and attrition, whatever, that they're never going to be a half team, but they kind of always will be. If I can contradict myself real quick, like they will have a killer quarterback and a defense that falls apart like we saw with Denard Robinson.
They will have this killer defense but start Wilson's spate and rely on power that works a lot of the time on the ground, But then when they need to do something creative, there's nothing there. We're talking about a fatal flaw. We're talking about a fatal flaw, and to some extent, they're going to be like a one point eight too. They're going to be a blink one point eight to two team. Yeah, we're talking about a fatal flaw. We're talking to some extent about a self fulfilling prophecy,
at least among the fan base. People sure feeling very pessimistic, people who are pessimistic yet somehow still optimistic. Everything blunted a little bit with that qualifier. So, okay, Michigan's interesting, let's do like two more if you got to Virginia Tech pitt TCU. We got responses about all of those Wisconsin.
Were we out of Virginia Tech's USC What was the answer in Virginia Tech?
Uh? This tweeter said, six wins. I believe, I don't know how that's the ceiling. Six wins and making a ball feels like a ceiling. I miss when an a SEC championship and in an Orange Bowl was the ceiling. I suppose maybe he's talking about them as a six maybe seven win team because of justin Flente and the depths to which recruiting has fallen that it doesn't seem like a turnaroundable situation in Blacksburg. I think right now it's eight or nine wins?
Oh my god, yeah, six wins, come on, it's definitely higher than six wins.
But are they winning nine? Ever? With justin Flente moving forward? I think they could? Okay? Why not? Why couldn't they.
Is it is it that stiff of competition in the ACC that win they can't pull off nine wins.
It's hard to get better as recruiting gets worse year over year. It's hard to have that element of your program go downward, but your win totals go up unless you're in a terrible conference or you already have an amazing quarterback and group of coordinators. And I don't think Virginia Tech as a So it's that's a hard inverted graph to sell me on.
I guess I just the Coastal Division has Duke, Georgia Tech, Pitt Virginia, Virginia's gotten better at football Miami. And obviously we're talking about all gettable teams these past couple of year, all gettable, they're all going. Virginia Tech wasn't picking them up. They weren't anywhere near the Coastal truck.
I don't know. I just I think for sure, nine.
Wins is that's not even the peak. The peak is winning your side of the of the conference right now, because you're just not gonna be Clemson.
You're not You're not gonna be Clemson. It's not gonna happen. Yeah, techam a the a SEC championship game in twenty sixteen, and that was our I believe extremely early on maybe the first year of yeah, first year of Justin Fuente, y on ten and four. Right, So what has the trend line looked like? No, it's not great a Tech. Yeah, it's not great. And there's some tough games on the schedule this year. They got North Carolina's Sam Howe to open up the year.
It's in Blacksburg. It's a tough game. You got a game against Notre Dame on the road at Miami, on the road at Virginia So it's not the easiest route, but they miss Clemson, like they could easily go eight or nine wins with this schedule right now, easily this coming year.
Hold on a good Virginia Tech team could who are they starting at quarterback? Raxenbourg? I start, I get back to you about that one. We'll get back to you. Right We're talking about Virginia Tech continuing what they look like in like twenty twelve, could go eight nine wins deep into this year's this season. I just I don't know. You gotta watch Virginia Tech football time I've watched.
Maybe you shouldn't I've watched. I mean, this is a get There are some tough games on here. This is a very gettable schedule.
It's a gettable schedule for like Florida State maybe, or Louisville or you know a team that appears to be on an upward trend.
All right, whatever, let's go on two more here, Arizona State, Dan, Let's go out west. Rose Bowl is an is the absolute top of the ceiling? Win the PAC twelve, ten or eleven wins. I cannot imagine a scenario where we are a contender for the playoff. That's from Nick strong showing by the Knicks here.
Yeah, this this question resonated with our Nick friends Rose Bowl.
Saying absolute, absolute top is the Rose Bowl.
I think I'm leaning more Alamo Fiesta. Fiesta Bawl is a New Year six game. Fiestaval is a great game. It isn't wrong the Fiesta Bowl. So he's seeing the PAC twelve.
Nick is even struggling with this. I understand absolutely, he's not like emphatic the Rose Bowl. Yes, he's saying, maybe if the opportunity truck comes rolling around the corner, we could win the PAC twelve. Otherwise it's like ten wins.
Yeah, it's probably ten wins in Fiesta A ten win Fiesta, ten win Alamo appearance, just because I struggle right now looking at if Arizona State's winning the PAC twelve. We are talking about them edging out USC, which they almost did this year, which was the South champ edging out USC, or having a down USC and probably a down Utah.
We're being honest about teams that are squarely ahead of Arizona State in terms of the South pecking order, having UCLA State as down as they've been, although that's an ascending UCLA program right now, and then in the North have an uncharacteristically down Oregon year, which twenty twenty was in twenty what was it sixteen, the final year of Mark Helfrich was, So that can happen their own health.
Recruiting has been really climbing in a good way for Arizona State, but there is still something about what their overall talent level needs to be and where the rest of the conference needs to be. That ASU having a top twenty unit on both sides, or having a top eight unit on one side and a top fifty unit on the other side, that I am not ready to call plausible. I think there's too much standing in the way. They can't recruit their state, which is a growing talent
of a state, and that concerns me. I just I don't know Herm Edwards raising the trophy? Could he raise a Holiday Boll Trophy at Alimo bol Trope? To be sure? Sure? Even then they are they're all in on recruiting, but don't recruit in state. And I don't know if I love the coaching staff the current one. I think you're can attract pretty good coaches, but there's also that element
of ASU. You know, it's Dirk Cutter, it's Dennis Erickson, it's Todd Graham, It's there's an element that I just think to myself, are they are they going to be able to find a guy if it's not Herm Edwards.
Who's the perfect guy for Arizona State, who's a perfect coach that would turn that program around outside of like Urban Meyer.
Oh. I think if they get lucky with like a West Coast up and comer, like if Andy Avlos just as incredible at BOIS, I think that's an interesting name because I think he would hire really well at his own Power five program. I think he's hired pretty well at Boise. I don't know enough about Brent Brennan at San Jose State, though I know the job he did
was great. I think guys like that are interesting. But they're also always going to be that program because I don't think they can I don't think they can have killers at every position. That they're always going to be that program that needs an zero to nine Arizona A two and seven UCLA the opportunity, but they need well, they need the But I mean ten and two ceiling
is incredible. I don't understand why why we have to like hold ASU to a uh an over ten win standard for a ceiling when ten win as a ceiling is pretty great.
We're again, this is a relative measure. Yeah, and there are some folks here who are clearly winting to try and see, squinting to try and see this ceiling. And I think in this case we've got that exact situation. Let me close it out with this one. Okay, A M no, whatever you want. Well, I was going to go to West Virginia, but we can go AM as well if you want. Yeah, I got nowhere to be
West Virginia. Best case scenario ceiling is probably eleven and one and one of the traditional New Year six Bowls and eleven and one, West Virginia surely gets passed over for a national championship birth playoff berth hard to realistically believe West Virginia ever puts an undefeated season together with their travel and a nine game conference schedules. There's a lot to unpack there. From Mountain Raven great name, eleven
and one is robust. That is a robust schedule and a robust so ceiling for West Virginia.
One of their all time great coaches, Dana Holgerson, won double digit games once, went ten to two and twenty sixteen. Believe West Virginia's best season record wise of all time involved one of the all time great backfields, Steve Slaton pow White two thousand and five. Rich Rod Right, yes, rich Rod, And that was a different conference. That was the Big East. I have West Virginia right now at an absolute ceiling of ten wins in the Big Twelve.
Lose to one of the more quote unquote traditional powers and then lose like you get just bad scheduling luck and you get a road back to back and or bringing you back and forth, whatever it is. It's hard for me to envision West Virginia right now under Neild or under whoever getting to that point in not the best recruiting area, though they do have a pretty incredible inroads in Florida traditionally getting to the point where they can overcome I think the built in limitations to win
eleven games and be in that playoff conversation. So I think they are. I think their ceiling is above Arizona State, but not quite eleven, so I think they're right in that nine point eight to ten point two win ceiling.
Yeah, it's it's interesting because I do feel like the Big Twelve is gettable.
The Big Twelve has a very.
Thick middle crust of teams that fall into like that seven and five, eight and four territory. It's not a bad conference by any stretch, but Oklahoma is clearly the upper crust of the Big Twelve. The rest of it, I think there's a lot of upward mobility, and West
Virginia probably falls in that category. But what the respondent Mountain Raven what a name, what he or she accurately points out is that they are geographically removed from the epicenter of the conference, and that's part of the reason why it's always felt like a really odd fit for West Virginia in the Big Twelve. There's so much farther east than the rest of the conference, and that poses an interesting challenge on the recruiting trail.
For sure.
I think we both like their coach. We both like the coach, we like that move looking forward at the next like five to six years of non conference games. They've of course got the game against Pittlake every year, and for at least the next two years they're slated against Virginia Tech. But along the way they pick up Penn State. If you go all the way out to
twenty twenty six, they pick up Alabama. So if we're talking about one loss, that's a really good West Virginia team that's knocking off all of those teams on his schedule, probably losing only to an Oklahoma or a Penn State or an Alabama. Ten wins I think is tops. I'm with you. Ten wins is absolutely tops. And that's contingent on them putting an offense together. That's contingent on them playing the Neil Brown defense that we've seen in years past.
At other stops for him, like it all has to go right, I think to get the ten wins.
If you're the Mountaineers, I would love. I would love as he also cannot mess up a coordinator higher. No, no, of course not, because we've seen the desktops to which both sides of the ball can fall with a pretty bad hire, the margin for err is pretty slim. Yeah, all right, did you want to do A and M real quick? Yeah?
A and M thoughts, So you know they're paying Jimbo Fisher at King's ransom, came over from Florida State Man.
We don't have to talk about his contract there on the edge of the playoff, he's fine.
Well, I'm saying they hired him. They hired him to raise this ceiling specifically. So in order to get to the playoff, you probably gotta win. You probably gotta be damn impressive in the SEC in the SEC west yep. And if the opportunity truck is rolling around the corner for a team like I don't know, a Virginia Tech, it's sure as hell ain't rolling around for a team like a Texas A and M, at least not in the same way, because's got to deal with Alabama. God,
deal with LSU. Gotta deal with just a ton of AMMO in the SEC West. So is the ceiling the SEC West or the ceiling the S Is a ceiling Alabama?
I mean, if you're good enough to win the SEC West, you're going to to win the SEC. Yeah?
Is the ceiling Alabama? Beating Alabama?
So early Kevin some.
Twenty twelve or whatever, it was twenty thirteen, right.
And that was a non national champion. They finished five in the country. They win the Cotton Bowl, impressive win over Oklahoma in Johnny Manzel's first season Heisman season. To be clear, I ba ba bah. I think that's their absolute ceiling. I don't think they are a I don't
think we will in any sort of short future. Look at Texas A and M as a perennial playoff threat, which if we're saying eleven wins ceiling, that's what we're calling them because since twenty twelve, and I'll throw out twenty twenty because that wasn't they didn't get the full twelve games to prove it. In terms of the win column, they haven't won double digit games again. And in the ten or so years before for twenty twelve or even like fifteen years, they didn't get to ten wins. Now
that's at this point agient history and whatever. They're operating at a really impressive on an impressive plane, I'm gonna say ten wins. No, I'm gonna say ten wins while looking like the quality of a playoff team a good amount of the time. But in the sec SEC West, I don't think I trust it. I don't think I trust them to go Like, how are you supposed to have any sort of impressive ceiling in the same division as Nick Saban?
Well, so, speaking of opportunity truck and speaking LSU.
Did it for a year for a year?
Yeah, speaking of circumstances. Nick Saban turns seventy on Halloween in twenty twenty. Okay, how much longer is Nick Saban coaching? Because I mean, I hate to talk about it from this perspective, but he can't coach forever.
Disagree?
At some point he's got a step aside. Jimbo Fisher is a younger guy. You maybe he can outlast him.
Dan, I mean, this is the old what Stephen Godfrey, Bill Connolly game? How much longer? Exactly? And National championships. I don't know. I seventy years old. How many more years can somebody survive, not even survive, thrive as the most successful coach of all time, five six somewhere in there to me? Sure, No. But the thing is, I think it's entirely possible that the end of the Nick Saban era is essentially waking up in you know, the middle of fall camp and saying I'm done. I'm not
feeling that that eternal burn that I normally do. I just did. I just imply Nick Saban with Satan, I'm not sure you might have. Yeah, I'm not feeling that eternal competitive booster, and it's I'm wasting everybody's time. If I'm not feeling it, he's just gonna leave. So that could be a year from now, two years from now. But I think the flames are the flames are high, ty, So yeah, four or five years all right?
Well, look, this is I thought we had a good conversation here. I enjoyed talking to you about this.
Yes, please write it and listening and talking. Yeah, soliverble at gmail dot com. Let us know your thoughts. We didn't cover all the teams that were sent to us, but I think some of the ones that intrigued us the most. Soliverble at gmail dot com. Obviously you know where to find us on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and Twitch and all the usual hotspots. We will post as part of this show, posting I don't know, poll
we something to provoke further thought. Let us know some more about your teams and what you think of our analysis here. Also, don't forget to subscribe. Find that at website soliverble dot com. Forballers dot com is a Patreon. We're doing some cool stuff here in the off season, Daniel, I think that's all I got do. We have Patriot League football starting soon. I think we do.
I didn't want to say I don't want to do it starting.
I'm seeing the twenty seventh of March. Yeah, is that right? Yeah? Oh no, the Patrio League schedule is set to begin. That was one. That was one game. It looks like it's March thirteenth. There's two divisions. The north is Colgate, Fordham holy Cross. The South is Bucknell Lafay at Lehigh TI. I'm gonna I'm gonna come up with some uncomfortable adjectives for you. I think starting today's the A. So the thirteenth means nine to ten Saturday. So on our next show,
are we doing Patriot League? I think we might have to? Yeah, Oh my god, I'm very excited for this. I think we might have to.
Yeah, don seeing Saturday, March the thirteenth. I'm looking at Lehigh's schedule. Patriot League lightning around coming back on Thursday.
Dan, Oh my.
God, Crosssaders coming to Goodman Stadium this Saturday.
I should go. I really should go. It's the cross Saders coming to town.
They are yeah, Sonny.
I Plus, I know spring football has already begun other places, but we've been This has been our our tan trik holdout. Yeah, it really has. It really has to talk about Patrio League football this coming Thursday morning. Great done, full Patriot League breakdown coming your way on Thursday morning. Yes, Stursday tune okay, Danne, fun show.
Thank you to one and all for your support for playing along with our madness. Soberbal at gmail dot com as always.
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