Clemson Football Deep Dive with Larry Williams

week at least publicly. Please do consider subscribing if you're as big a college football fan as Dan and I. Also, you can get some of our bonus features some of the bonus content. If you're going out to Verbal, it's vr B A L L E R S dot com. And as we've been saying for the last couple weeks, now, you do have a few days left to enter for your chance to win that signed AJ Brown Old Miss Minnie helmet over at Solid Giveaway dot com. So today, in Dan's absence, I'm bringing on an old friend to

help me deep dive the state of Clemson football. You know, Larry Williams. We've had him on this show a number of times. He is the go to guy for all things Clemson football reporting. You can find him at Tiger Illustrated dot com. He's been there for as far back as I could remember. Doesn't just an amazing job. The last we had him on this show was in twenty nineteen, which means that this interview is is long overdue because

Clemson football. You know, things have gotten a little bit more interesting at Clemson over the last year or so, with Trevor Lawrence going off to the NFL, with coaching turnover, with the game changing to some extent around Sweeney. There's just a lot more to talk about now than there was back then. And Larry, of course is brilliant and can help us break all that stuff down. So, without

further Ado, let's just jump right in. As always, appreciate your time and support here downloading the sOliver bol Here's Larry Williams from Tiger Illustrated. All righty, we are joined now by the one the only. Larry Williams from Tiger Illustrated, The host of the Clemson Dubcast, also lists on his Twitter bio that he is a dad, a drummer, and a griller. Larry Williams, how are you, sir, Great to have you back doing great.

And so since then I've done it on the side and it's it's great. It's a great creative diversion. I would highly recommend for everybody out there to have something that you do this totally separate from your your job, even though my job is pretty freaking cool, you know, best job in the world. I think it's still it's still really great to just mentally and creatively to have something apart from that that's the totally different. So I'm in two bands. One is A is a Grateful Brothers

Almond Brothers cover band. Uh. Did I say the Grateful Brothers are Grateful Dead?

fun to go back and forth between the two. And so with things slowing down work wise this time of year, this is when I kind of am able to do more of than music thing, and so it's a great The rhythms of the year are are just I love them because I'm able. I mean, I love college football, I love what I do professionally, but I also love the music thing as well, and so I have a

really understanding why same same who. Really she totally gets the sort of the notion of creative fulfillment, you know, and totally understanding as far as schedule goes and all that. So I'm really fortunate to be able to do what I do on both ends that professionally and creatively.

get this Clemson football program out of cruise control? And you sort of had an incredibleist answer, like you didn't know. Nobody really knew at that point. We still don't, right, But your two answers, if I recall correctly, were A they're gonna miss or they would have to miss on a few recruiting classes and the talent would just have to bottom out, or B it would need to take some mass turnover on the coaching side. The talent's still there.

I mean, it's clearly still there, but there has been a lot of movement on the coaching front, with two coordinators now off elsewhere being head football coaches for the coming season. Assistants have left. There's been turnover in the athletic department as well, So I don't know, like, what did you go down and bang on the drum all day? Like what was your reaction to some of what happened over the course of the last few months.

the changes that have occurred since then. Wow, crazy the portal and NIL, Like I mean, I remember having discussions with my subscribers, you know, Clemson fans, you know what could possibly derail this back at that time, and it's you know, I'm thinking, I, you know, maybe Ohio State or Georgia, you know, the actual teams that you're thinking of. And N I l not on my radar portal, not

on my radar. And so I'm not saying that Clemson is being derailed by that, but it does for Clemson and and other schools, it just creates, it has created a whole new set of things you have to adapt to and overcome and and and and you know, sort of fashion in your culture, I guess, so to speak.

But uh, I think I'm guessing. One thing we talked about back then, hopefully one thing that I should have been able to anticipate at least a little bit, is guys like Trevor Lawrence and and Deshaun Watson don't grow on trees, you know, you know. Djunnglo Lay certainly highly regarded coming in. Certainly a lot of arm talent looks like Cam Newton, but we saw this past season that uh, he was he wasn't really ready for the spotlight. I guess you could say now they had lots of other issues.

It wasn't just him. They had injuries all over the place. Justin Ross wasn't healthy from the start of the season. With a foot injury, you lose Travis Etn, pretty big deal. Will Shipley showed a lot of promise early, but then he was hurt. They didn't have a center really coming into the season. Matt Bakhorse had to move over. They had injuries all over the place there, and so, you know, I think looking back, I spent the season sort of slapping myself in the face for not paying more attention

to two things. One, it wasn't just Trevor Lawrence and Travis Etn that they lost, even though those were two monstrous voids to fill. It was also Amari Rodgers and Cornell Powell. To two guys I go for those four guys, Lawrence Etn, Amari Rodgers, and Cornell Powell. Those guys weren't just high level talents. They were high level figures in your program, figureheads, and they carried themselves like professionals in everything they did. And that sort of leads into the

second thing. I slapped myself in the face for a lot last season. Was not paying more attention to something somebody told me last summer during the voluntary workout phase of their off season and their summer when they're sort of left of their own devices for the most part and it's really sort of up to them. I was

asking somebody fairly close to the program. I heard things going, It's like, well, on defense, it's amazing, you know, one hundred percent participation and leadership at all three levels just you know, just remarkable what you see on that side of the ball. But on the offensive side it's a story.

Maybe fifty percent participation in leadership really not there. And this person said, you know, he said, we're only a few injuries from eight to four, and I'm like, come on, you know, it just seemed like that seemed crazy to me, And in the moment, I'm like, wow, that's interesting. But I didn't really think about it enough until after the opening game when I see kind of weird body language on the offensive side of the ball, nobody really taking charge.

Not that in the opening game being Georgia, not that leadership was the reason they didn't win that game. I mean, Georgia was obviously a terror on the defensive side of the ball. But you just I saw things last year I wasn't used to seeing, just in terms of that the chemistry aspect of it and the leader ship of things like that, and so you know, I think they have to That's probably one of their big tasks on

the offensive side. Uh. This right now, moving into the into the summer, is is finding those sort of those pillars, those those those strong personalities who who not only you know, want the ball on Saturdays to do their thing and to show their talent, but the guys who are are going to carry themselves like pros and do what they have to do off the field as well. In every way.

You know, he knew that that Venables was there was a chance he was going to leave at some point. Even though I think Venables would have been happy ending his career as a defensive coordinator, you know, I think he the Oklahoma just happened to be the perfect opportunity.

But anyway, so I think that the promotion of Brandon Streeter to Phil Elliott's spot, and then the promotion of of of Wes Goodwin and Mickey Kahn to replace Venables as co defensive coordinators, while it devoked a lot of sort of dropped drop dropped jaws on the outside from the fact that he didn't, you know, go go pluck that you know, highly regarded assistant coach from elsewhere who'd

been through the wars and all that. I think he had that in mind for a while in both respects, and so I do think it's a it's a heck of an experiment because I can't think of a precedent for the good Win promotion. And this is not a criticism of it. I'm just saying this is this is

just reality. I can't think of a precedent in any sport. Honestly, I'm sure there is something similar where a guy at the top of his profession being Venables as the top defensive coordinator, you could argue assistant coach in the country. He leaves and you replace him with a support staffer, you know, somebody who hasn't even been a full time assistant yet I immediately because it was off my radar too when that when that happened, I think.

considered doing. But in the in the aftermath of us learning that that was the direction he was headed in, I you know, the first thing I did was try to reach out to people who had been around Wes over the years, and man, everybody I talked to, from Kevin Steele who worked with Wes when Steele was the defensive coordinator here, to Ellis Johnson, who was with Wes when Wes was a support staff for Mississippi State, on down the line, former players, none of them batter than

I at the thought of him running his own show and calling place. He was the right hand man of Brent when he was here. You know, the whole I guess concept of stealing signals whatever I mean, I call it memorization and and and preparing for every single kind of formation and tendency that I just call it supreme study and and even photographic memory, which is sort of his wheelhouse. Even though you didn't hear his name much during the success under Venables, he was right there.

I can tell you this. It wasn't the co defensive coordinator in linebackers coach at Clemson. So there's there's that Wes loves it here and the belief that I mean, if you're in his shoes. Man. The the fact that Dabo Sweeney, when he has so many options available to him, points at you and says, I believe in you, man. That is just so empowering, and then building of loyalty to Dabbo. We know that wes Is is a really

good schemer, really good play caller. But there's more to it than that there, you know, there's eventibles was was so.

with his comments about the transfer portal. Is Kay's recent comments about the transfer portal, and we know that he's had this love hate thing with the transfer portal, more on the hate side, to be fair, but I think his comments have been, Look, if I go out and if I'm pulling guys in every year, what kind of trust? What kind of loyalty? What kind of sense of ownership does that give the players who are on the roster

right now? You know, I know a lot of people roll their eyes, myself included with some of what Dabo says in that regard. However, it does seem as if there is a through line here, whether it's on the coaching side with regard to the talent on the roster or now the coaches on the coaching side being promoted from within.

It was doing what at that time was cutting edge with the hurry up, no huddle and tempo and all that stuff. And so when Maris goes to SMU, my position was was, man, you need to go out and take that one point three million dollars that you that you were paying Chad Marris, which at the time was the it was a long time ago. That was the lot a lot of that was the host paid I

think assistant in the country. Go out and find some other rock star, you know who's been through some of the some of the wars, you know, a season play caller. Well no, he he looks over and says, I'm gonna I'm gonna promote Tony Elliott and Jeff Scott who hadn't they hadn't called plays. And I there was lots of second guessing of that at the time. You know, I didn't totally get it, you know, And so I mean

the through line that you talk about it. It goes back to the beginning of Dabo's tenure itself, because absolutely and and and taking a you know, betting on something you believe in, you know, something that's that that you've seen with your own eyes, meaning Terry down Phillips saw Dabbo with his own eyes and said, I believe in this guy, and so you know, grooming from within all that, you know, the culture fit. I do think it it applies to the portal as well. And I do think

that that Debo. I think it's fair to criticize, you know, them not going into the portal more. But I do also think he gets a lot of excess heat.

media voices. I think I'm respectfully, I have some dissent with the way they've approached this. And I'll go back to last summer and I'm as far as the legality and all that of name, image, likeness and the portal, I get it. Man, Like, sure, there's a lot of there's a lot of people out there that are making a ton of money, you know, off these players, off what they're doing on a football field. So and the Supreme Court has spoken, you know, like there's no going back.

And it applies to what I'm talking about here with sort of the discourse on nil and the portal is if I'm a sports writer or media voice who back in the summer was saying, oh, there's nothing wrong with this. We're just talking about some Instagram endorsements and a few autographs, just some pocket money. And I dug myself in on that at that time. Then now that it is absolutely not.

It's more than that, you know, with eight million dollar commitment and things like that, and for a quarterback, the Tennessee quarterback and then Texas A and M and am I going to be less willing to back down from that and to be to look at it honestly because of how much I dug myself in last summer probably so, so, you know, I think something that was not anticipated enough and something that probably the media folks, including myself, probably didn't do a good job of, is man the graduation

that the academic part of this. Of all these guys in the transfer portal, their chances of earning a degree are way down just by being the portal. Even if they do end up, even even if some of these guys who don't have somewhere to land do fund somewhere to land, all the credits that you have to transfer, the progress towards degree requirements just going to be naturally harder for them to end up graduating. And uh, you know that's something nobody talked about back in the summer.

And I'm sorry, I'm cynical in a lot of ways, but man, I for my podcasts and other other avenues, I talked to a lot of former players, just catching up with them, like where are they now? What are their thoughts on things? And men that degree, that education. You could argue, Okay, they're all clustered in one thing and all that, and it's not worth it. It's worth something, man, education is still worth something. And then to suggest that

it's just a zero zero value is just crazy. And I think that's where Dabo's where where his emphasis and beliefs have been genuine all along, is that, man, we kind of value the education and keep if we're going to do an il when we should, we should tie it to graduation and maybe put it in a trust and then make it equal. You know, where all players get the same thing, and then upon graduation is when

they can get the lump some of that. That makes a lot of sense to me, Man, I don't think it's practical right now, because, like I said, the toothpaste is kind of out of the tube. Like the first guy who doesn't get you know what, he's maybe worth some superstar, he has to get the same thing as everybody else. Well, lawsuit and then the whole thing's blown

up again. So anyway, I do think you know where Davo has sort of paying himself into a corner as years ago when he said, you know, if we get to pay for play, you know, I'll just do something else because that's not what this is about. Remember that, Well, that's kind of where we are. Like I know, every story I read about this, they it's almost like the obligatory paragraph clea rules forbid players signing nil deals in exchange for their service. Come on, man, Like, I think

we can just delete that at this point. You know, you know, if if they don't get an offensive lineman in the portal, I think they will an interior offensive lineman. Like if they hypothetically, if they don't get one this cycle and then their offensive interior line is a train wreck in twenty twenty two, then absolutely, man, Yeah, what happened there? Why aren't you more aggressive in the portal?

But I think it's kind of cherry picking to look back and say, oh, Jamison Williams and all these other players, you know, why why didn't you get in the market for those guys. I think we have to put ourselves, take ourselves to the time the decision was made and look at what Clemson had on its depth chart at whatever position it was. And I think it makes a

lot more sense when you're able to do that. I know that that's not that's not fashionable now now it's it's just our impulse to just to Monday morning quarterback everything. But I do think it's fair to say that, you know, maybe they should be more active in the portal. I don't think that's a I don't think that's over the top.

to keep guys around. I hope for his sake there are more stories about what he is doing to try and counteract the portal, because it's clear where he stands on it, you know. And he softened his stance a bit over the last twelve to eighteen months, I think it's fair to say. And he's come out and he said, look, if it's if it's something we need to do, we'll

do it. He's just not as big a proponent of it as say somebody like Oregon State, where they're bolting together a roster every off season, So I'm fascinated to see which direction things go on that front. I did want to shift gears a bit if we could into where things stand right now with spring football and with some of the questions that we've got building into the twenty two season. I will start at the very top because Dju, as you rightfully mentioned towards the beginning of

our conversation, had some moments earlier in the year. Last year did improve as the season wore on, and Clemson football on the whole still had a pretty good season, Larry, it just maybe wasn't to the standard that we had grown accustomed to seeing over the past five seasons or so, certainly under Trevor Lawrence. But we do kind of have this. I don't want to call it a quarterback derby because

I don't think it's a quarterback derby. But you definitely see more articles written about dj Uliangalle and kid Klubnick and Clubnick went out there in the spring game. He looked good. He definitely showcased some of the tools that I think make people excited. But like, can you help suss this out for us? There's not really a quarterback controversy at the stage.

he does things. And you know, just looking back to the past with Trevor Lawrence overtaken Kelly Bryant in twenty eighteen and back in fourteen with Deshaun Watson overtaking Cole Stout, his sort of position and policy has been that it has to be a knockout punch for the freshman to overtake the veteran starter. And you know, you could argue he devo's that he that he used that policy to a fault with with both of those guys, particularly with Deshaun.

You know, they lost a game at Florida State that you could argue, had he had he started that game, that they might have they might have won. He did start from that point forward. But anyway, I do think and and please don't misunderstand, I'm not sitting here saying, Hey, it's only a matter of time, kay, club, it's going to be the guy. It's just going to take some he's gonna have he'll he'll do it early in the regular season and then they won't look back. I don't

know that. You know, DJ, what was so perplexing to everybody last year was it was it was so hard to square what we saw last season with what we saw in his two emergency starts in twenty twenty when he he was subbing for Trevor Lawrence after Trevor got COVID and looked great against Boston College, and that her name. Dad's position for most of the last season was, Hey, ain't nothing wrong with DJ. The only thing different is he doesn't have the players around him that the quarterback

in two thousand. Yeah, that's absolutely totally fair. Avta, Mari Rodgers, Cornell Powell. You know, uh, but I think to an extent that was sticking up for his guy has always been something. He's he's he's he's been good at you know, he's he's in his fox hole with his quarterback when he faces criticism, and that's a that's a credit to him. DJ has some things to work on, and he's been working on him. He was two hundred and sixty five pounds at the end of last season. Yeah, yeah, he lost.

He lost twenty five pounds. He was down to I

think under two forty during the spring. He's also been working with private quarterbacks coach to refine his mechanics, footwork, which he really needs to refine and hone those I mean, when you're when you're the biggest dude on the field, and in high school football, even even high level high school football, all that he was in in the LA area at Bosco High School, you can you can get away with with a lot of a lot of rough edges and you can just you know, the big arm

is is is you know that sort of that's the trump card. You know that that sort of supersedes everything. But in college, when you're dealing with the speed of the game and the talent being even in a lot of cases, I mean, you gotta he just he had. He needs to spend a lot of time this off season working on working on his his fundamentals, But I think it's it feels like he is committed to that. This time last year, he might not have been ready

for that. He might not have been totally He might have maybe he needed to experience that, that nightmare of a season to really for it to really yeah, for the magnitude of it, the importance of it, to really to really hit.

bit different last year. Hopefully as we get into twenty twenty two, it'll be much more of a normal cycle.

And so I'm curious to see if DJU can grow, because you're right, there were issues with footwork and mechanics and balls sailing, and you know, there were plenty of conversations last year, especially going into the year because of the lack of depth at the quarterback positioned for Clemson, Like maybe Dabo should have done something on the transfer portal here to boost that quarterback depth and in the event that it doesn't work out with dju so with

the benefit of a season, with the benefit of an off season. Now I'm curious to see how he does, especially now with some competition, because all you got to do is google Clemson foot ball spring game and you're going to read a lot about kid club.

study of it. And I know we've seen that in the last seven years, obviously to a Tongue, Bay Low and others, but at the time it was like unheard of. And so I was still proceeding under this notion that Okay, yeah, you might avoid a red shirt, you know, and we'll see it's hard to transition to college, you know. And then somebody close to the team at one point it's like, Larry, this dude is the best quarterback on the field and it's not even close. And I'm like, oh, you know.

And so then fast forward and obviously everybody knows what happened. He turned into Superman in pretty short order. So then in the spring of eighteen, I was at a one of my daughter's softball games, youth softball games, and Brent Vinnables,

his daughter's played in the same league. And this is during that spring of eighteen, and we had, I guess our teams were playing against each other, and so I was just sitting there chatting with him, small talk obviously, didn't have a pen and paper off the Yeah, just like, hey man, what do you what do you think of what you've seen so far? And blah blah blah, Yeah, good, good good. So what do you think of number sixteen? He goes his eyes just got really big. He says,

best freshman I've ever seen, except for maybe Adrian Peterson. Wow, And I'm my holy crape. And he said, I'll tell you what, We're not going to have the same problems passing this year we had last year, meaning twenty seventeen, the transition between you know, from Deshaun to Kelly Bryant. Kelly Bryant pretty good quarterback, but certainly not in that in that realm. But so that's when I just started writing, Hey, folks, it's only a matter of time before.

He's got to put on some weight. He's he's pretty skinny, got a thick and thick in his his his stature. I don't know if he necessarily has a cannon for an arm, but he did it at the highest level in Texas and and between the ears. Like this kid, he's hanging out with seniors and juniors, everybody on the team. He's a He's at all the minor sport events at Clemson. I saw him at a high school basketball game at

the local high school here Daniel. He was cheering on four of his freshman class members who are who aren't in enrolls yet but who were finishing up their senior seasons of basketball, including one of Dabo's sons. And he's like arguing with yelling at the ress, like not in an innoxious way, but like he's into it. Yeah, you know, And like for a kid to to be to basically come to a different world, you know, he's from Texas and to immediately ingratiate himself with everybody and just to

be right at home. I think that's important. And I think when we're talking to last year, you know, leadership issues, not that it was all DJ, but DJ's was real quiet. You look at him on the sideline, he's just sort of standing off, you know, to him, to him else. That's a factor having somebody come in who's a galvanizing presence. And so in addition to a very truly talented quarterback.

So is he Deshaun or Trevor. No, that's unfair to I think until further notice to sort of put him put him on that level as an early enrolled true freshman. But is he a special talent, a special person? Every indication points to that.

What we saw in the Clemson spring game was that defense was dominant, which is probably going to continue being a theme, hopefully continue being a theme for this football team. It certainly was a deal last year as well. As you look forward now just based on maybe what you saw in spring, maybe what you didn't see in spring, but you still have questions around what what should we as maybe non Clemson people keep our attention on as

we move through the summer months. Where are your big question marks for this team now going into the new season.

had injuries during spring practice. Adam Randall, the freshman receiver who they think a lot of they thought he was gonna be able to help him right away, he tours acl and on the offensive side of the ball. That's why it was just hard to really get a read on what we saw in the spring game. Like, you know, I heard people com play and well, there are no vertical throws, and what happened to this exciting new offense

we're supposed to get it? Well, it's kind of hard to It's kind of hard to throw a vertical pass when you have like zero point five seconds to throw it before you have a defensive end there and down on you. So I look at August camp as being like really captivating, because that's when it's really game on for a lot of these competitions, and when you're going to have the whole roster together. Will Shipley'll be back.

He wasn't able to practice. Kobe Pace was out as well, Brian Berzi was out, you know, Trey Williams and other really good interior defensive lineman was out. Lannon Xander's safety was at I could go on down the list, but I'm just saying that things are going to feel big and important come August in a way that really wasn't the case at all during the spring. I'm interested to see what the offense looks like schematically strategically, I know that Brandon Streeter is going to try to get back

to doing more tempo stuff. You know, that was kind of a calculated decision they made when Elliott and Jeff Scott took over. They didn't want tempo to be as much their brand as it was under Chad Morris. They basically wanted to focus more on getting into the right play and saying, our guys are better than yours, right. So not that they didn't do tempo. They did it when it suited them, including in some high profile playoffs and championship victories. But I'm interested to see what things

look like under Brandon Streeter. Their passing game has to get rejuvenated. One interesting takeaway from talking to the coaches during the spring has been that they some sort of self study of recent years and trends they spotted was was not really throwing to the middle of the field

as much as they probably should have. So I think that they're going to introduce some new concepts probably and while on this kind of sounds contradictory, while also pairing it down and eliminating some of the some of the clutter. Kyle Richardson, who's the first year tight ends coach, is also the passing game coordinator, and so it's conditioning to see how that sort of meshes and develops moving forward as they try to, you know, bring the flash back

to this, to this offense. I mean talking about twenty nineteen. Like what's wild is how much has changed on the field. We talked about off the field with nil and portal and all that, Like in January of nineteen, we're sitting here saying, can anybody keep up with Clemson? Has Clemson

eclipsed Alabama? You know after forty four to sixteen, Now a few years later, you know, Ohio State and Alabama are much more known for the receiving prowess than Clemson has been the last could not just last year, but year before as well, you know, can they get back to what they're used to and that is, you know, a prolific offense being largely defined by throwing and catching, you know, really high level throwing and catching. So we'll see.

what what should people know about Will Shipley? Who may not be familiar with his skill set.

the Heisman. I'm not either, But for the if you're coming up with lists, sort of the case for him would be he's going to touch the ball a lot, not just on offense, but in a in a return capacity as well. That's one thing devo Is has been good at since he took over wash And as head coach in eight was one of his first initiatives was, hey man, we're gonna get our best players the ball because C. J. Spiller under the previous regime, C J.

Spiller and James Davis weren't getting it near enough. And so I don't think you'll see a shortage of of touches for him. Just a a super talent who's really good in the open field, a physical runner who can who can lower his shoulder and and move the pile. But just the consummate competitor. What's interesting is that off the field, he's he's uh, super thoughtful and and uh he's a he's he's really involved with his faith and

and and in the church and all that. Not that not that you can't be a good football player if

you're sure, uh you know, if you're really spiritual. But people say he just turns into a different person once he gets on the fields, this cutthroat competitor, and he was instantly one of the team's leaders when he when he arrived last year, by the he was an early enroll league, but by the summer debo was was was including his name is as one of the one of the main leader figurehead types and that might in hindsight speak some to the void of leadership on the offensive

side of the ball that we were talking about. But man, it's hard to find a better package, I think than than will Shipley, just as a person, as a as a competitor, and as a a person that you put as an asset to your to your entire team who there are no frills with him, So it's going to be fun to watch, and if he can stay healthy, I certainly think he's he's one of those one of those elite skill player talents in college football. Yeah.

What else can we promote for you? What else are you working on over the next couple months here As we enjoy the I don't know, last couple of weeks and months of some degree of freedom before we really dive back in to this whole college football thing.

headed to Clemson but then Major League Baseball intervened. And what I love about this sort of the theme of this is we're sort of getting out of the way. We're asking them three questions, that's it. One is what are you up to now? Two is what are your thoughts on the state of the program with Dabo? And then three, this is the most interesting your thoughts on the current landscape of college athletics with Namo's likeness and

the portal. And I think it's opened a lot of people's eyes so far in that I think almost everybody we've surveyed has said, yeah, these guys should be getting some money, but where there is some nuance. Is I think they're also learned about where things are headed in terms of the portal because they can put themselves in their back in their eighteen nineteen year old shoes and oh god, the coach, just the coach just chewed me out. I'm a fourth day of August camp. I'm going somewhere else,

you know. And the educational part of it, which I referred to earlier, like these most of these former athletes are are are are very passionate about the role of education and the importance of education to a lot of

these kids. Anyway, not to go off on that, but if you're a Clemson fan out there and you're not already a subscriber, this is a really cool sort of gear shift from the day to day of a season in spring practice, sort of kicking back and catching up with a lot of these a lot of these really interesting personalities for former players from from years past.

for today. Again, big thanks for downloading for supporting the show. My name is Tye hilden Brandt. Thank you as always, and stay solid.