Chatting with Stewart Mandel

Welcome to the Solid Verbal.

I'm that for me. I'm a man, I'm forty.

I've heard so many players say, well, I want to be happy, you want to be happy for dake Ado State?

Is that whoo whoom? And Dan and Tye welcome back to the Solid Verbal. Boys and girls. My name is ty hilden Brandt. Dan Rubinstein actually not joining me this evening. I got the week off last week, and so it's only fair that Dan would take his turn this week. He will be back with me next week, I promise. But in the meantime, it was my duty to go out and find an esteemed guests to bring on the show. As you know, a week ago Dan interviewed our friend

How are you?

I'm doing well. You've been a busy guy since the last time we had you on the show.

Yeah, it's a much busier role that I've taken on now where I'm both writing and managing an entire enterprise.

But it's a good kind of busy.

All right, talk me through this, because what was it? Last year? Fox Sports decides rather infamously that they're going to try this whole pivot to video thing that leaves you, that leaves a bunch of other talented individuals kind of on the outside looking in. You're in this place where you've obviously got a lot of name recognition within the college football community, among college football fans. Presumably you're like looking for a steady source of income like the rest

Well, so the Fox pivot to video didn't become public until late June of last year. But we myself rust Ballman, we knew about it. We knew that's where it was headed. Nody had outwardly come out and said, like, you guys won't have a place to write, but we knew that was where it was headed, probably from mid January, so I'd had a lot of time to, you know, both think about what I wanted to do next, and.

Obviously started talking to people.

And then in the course of that, I think it was late April, ESPN had their massive layoffs. S I laid off a bunch of good people, and it was just so depressing in our industry at that time. It felt like the whole thing was just dying. And I just kept saying to myself, it doesn't make any sense. There's still a huge demand for what we do. People

They talked to Seth Davis for that college basketball.

Site as soon as he became available, and then it was just a lot of good fortune in that I live here in the Bay Area. They're based in San Francisco. I had already really started sketching out what a college football vertical would look like. It's something that myself and Dan Uthman, who's our managing editor who came from USA today, had kind of talked about in theory for a long time, and when I was going through my transition, if you will, period,

So is it fair to say that you're the frontman of this operator? Were you a frontman in your band in college?

By the way, No, that's I was the guitarist and I kind of consciously avoided being the front man.

Did you secretly want to be the front man back then.

Well, I think everybody, whether they're whether they're in a band or not, right, everybody fantasizes about being the lead singer of the front man, the ultimate rock star. But I was also very very much aware of the fact that I could not sing to save my life.

So it was never it was never really a realistic option.

In this case, you can write, and you do have some degree of credibility within the college.

Thinking Eddie man Halen maybe the only guitarist who's the actual frontman of a or the most recognized person from a band.

But anyway, it's not just the writing.

I just I've been you know, well, I've been writing and also just kind of being part of college football on the internet and the digital space basically almost since the start of the internet, since the nine and I felt like I had a pretty good pulse of what fans want, what's worked for me. Over the years, Increasingly we've seen the direction some sice are going in that I frankly just kind of could tell anecdotally, like people are kind of turned off by this, People are turned

I have that.

I think the startup lingo is what's your unfair advantage? And I guess my unfair advantage was just having a lot of experience and a lot of relationships built up in this space.

And a lot of pop punk and emo knowledge right to boot.

Do you know that hasn't really come in handy in this new job yet, but hopefully soon.

Do you find that you're watching a lot more Shark Tank now that you're officially an entrepreneur.

I think the thing that not Shark Tank, I mean being in Silicon Valley obviously. I mean I was watching to show Silicon Valley before, as long before I was involved with this company, But this season has just felt so much different. It's just, you know, it's real life now. And then you know, I don't think this is a coincidence. You ever heard the Gimlet podcast startup of course, Yeah, yeah. I listened to that probably within a few months of when I first kind of got aware of the Athletic.

It's cool.

I find that I really enjoy much more than I would have imagined the business side of it, and it's actually taken up a lot more of my time than I would have guessed. Like I just kind of naively thought, Okay, we'll get the thing up and running.

Dan Uthman is.

The guy who actually does the day to day editing of the stories and coordinating with the writers. I'll just be a writer that happens to have an editor in chief title. That no, like, there's so many from a strategic standpoint, from an operation standpoint, there's so many things that come up on a day to day basis.

And now we're hiring again. So it's just like last summer all over again.

I spent find myself spending a lot of time on the phone with prospective candidate.

Let me play Devil's advocate for a second, because you talked a little bit about what the fans want. I think there's always going to be someone out there covering college football for free. And I guess I should say probably because we don't know where this whole thing is headed ten years from now. But I guess my point is, is a subscription model sustainable.

It's amazing, it's sustainable. And what's amazing is how quickly it's become normalized. When we got this thing off the ground a year ago that, yeah, I mean, there was still a whole lot of why would I pay for this? You know, you guys are crazy. You're so many places you can get this for free. And I noticed that when Seth Emerson, our new Georgia writer, started in mid April,

And he really didn't.

You know, it was really in that short amount of time people have come to kind of accept that, you know what, Yeah, I mean, that's what we do now.

We pay for good good not just sports writing.

I mean a lot of newspapers are now going to a much harder paywall. I just thought Bloomberg is going to be doing one, Banity Fair is doing one, And so what we're seeing is you're right, there will always be free.

Sports writing out there.

I don't disagree with that notion, but I think where we're headed, and I don't know how many years this will take, it's going to be the same model, much the same model you see in TV, where if I wanted to, I could just watch ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox for free and they have TV on around the clock.

The two factors that really seem to be disrupting the business of college football are A attendance is dropping, and b we've got this whole cord cutting thing going on where it seems as if that's accelerating as well now that you're kind of in the business of sports media

Well, the attendance thing is fascinating to me because Michael Weinrad wrote a story for US about I Guess a month ago now on it, and it was started with his kind of first handed count of his own parents, who are a long time Penn State season ticket holders, who decided they'd had enough and canceled. And the response we got to that story, not just in terms of how many people read it, but the comments and the

Well, and the question I guess next is does that sort of jockeying for rights lead to any kind of expanded playoff or any kind of conference alignment? Conference realignment?

Well, it's crazy, I mean, cord cutting has accelerated, you know, so quickly that we're only we're not that far removed from the last crazy realignment cycle of twenty or you know what, twenty ten, twenty eleven, when.

People talk about it like it was a blizzard or an earthquake, right, yeah.

But also the main or one of the main reasons behind it was cable households. You know, the Big ten wanted Rutgers so they could add to the Big ten network cable households. And you know when Larry Scott tried to make that huge play for the Big twelve teams, it was when he was starting the actual network. And I say that because by the time that next round comes up, that might not be a factor at all. That might be in a completely outdated metric how many cable households do you have?

So it could go on in two ways.

It could be that everybody just says we're happy the way we are. We frankly, in some cases went a little too far. Last time we got fourteen team conferences. That's a really awkward number. So that's the moderate end. But it could also be pretty radical. And I've written

Who starts that? Is that? Is that something that athletic directors band together and form on the sly or where does that come from?

Yeah?

I mean it can't you know, obviously probably not going to come from conference commissioners who want to keep their conferences intact, and those tend to be the most powerful figures in our sport.

Jim Delady not dialing that one up.

I think it would come from Frankly, I think it would come from external factors. I think it would come from a TV executive somewhere coming to approaching the schools preemptively and saying, you know, hey, what would you guys think about this? Here's how much money we would pay you for this. Maybe things move very slowly in college sports, So even though we're still talking about something against eight or nine years away, maybe that's still too soon.

I don't know. And there's other things that will influence that.

Will the rules about paying athletes change between now and then, because if so, that's going to give those schools extra incentive to make more revenue and frankly keep more of it from themselves because they're the ones that are going to have the most marketable athletes.

Well, specifically now with college football's offseason, do you have a favorite story that you've been following so far.

I know that every year in this time of year, certainly in the spring, we're focused on quarterback competitions, so that's not necessarily novel, but these are some really unique ones. I mean, to go into a season where the defending national champions have a competition between the guy who's taken them to two straight national title games and the guy who came in the second half and won it, I mean,

Those stories all fascinating me.

The shape Patterson thing to me at Michigan is sort of fascinating because I think much like at Florida, where it's always felt like they were a quarterback away from getting to a different level, I think the same thought almost applies to Michigan. And now Shaye Patterson moves up from Ole Miss He of course wins the ruling he's eligible. Immediately there's either an assumption that he can take Michigan to some new height or that they're going to be stuck in this third place vein in the Big ten

I think that's I mean, I think you're right. I think that's kind of the states that are about to play out. This is this is the no excuses season. Now he has a quarterback we've seen him, We've seen Shape Patterson play at a very high level in the SEC.

He is, without question, upgrade from what they've had.

And and that's not to say that Brandon Peters couldn't eventually develop into that kind of player, But I don't know. I just find a hard to imagine he's going to come out and beat out Shape Patterson. So, I mean, offensive line is still a big question mark for them, it has been for seemingly many many years now. But they have the quarterback, they have good receivers, good running backs, great defense, and so you're right. I mean, if it's ever going to happen for Harbaugh, it would would think

Win kind of season.

It's an absolutely brutal schedule and they could be a better team and still go nine to three. And obviously, people like those Ohio State fans, unless they have just beaten Ohio State in that will be mocking him for being the nine million dollar coach that can't finish higher than third.

Do you think that Harbaugh is truly wearing out his welcome at Michigan because there were rumblings towards the end of last year that that was already starting to take place, and that was kind of his m O at other stops that he'd been.

I mean, you're always going to have that fringe in the message boards on mg vlog who aren't happy and want to go on to the next guy. But I think the bigger picture, reasonable people know how much he succeeded his previous stops, how fortunate they were to get him, and that it would be kind of ridiculous to blow the thing up after four years, you know, just like you did with Brady Hope, just like you did with rich Rod, Like at some point you got to pick

I'm not.

He's not on the hot seat. He's not going to get fired if figure eight and four next year. But I'm also not naive enough to think that Michigan nothing offends Michigan fans more than than anybody who dares to suggest that he would go back to the NFL.

Right, you know, come on, don't be naive.

Like people have blown off their alma maters under plenty of circumstances. And if he feels like he's worn out his welcome, then certainly that's a possibility.

Have enjoyed following the trip to France, and maybe not for the reasons you'd expect. You can't avoid it if you read about college football in the off season, especially not now, because if you go on like ESPN dot com, there are at least fifteen Michigan logos in their news feed about what's going on on their trip abroad. But

Well, first of all, I'm experiencing this a little differently I think than you are. I. I you know, I definitely remember following every minute of that Italy trip last year, and.

That's right, that's right. I forgot that went to Italy.

Yeah, this one just kind of snuck up on me, like, oh, that's right. He did say they were going to go to France, didn't he right? And I think that's a sign of, you know, how much interest people have lost in that program from last year to this year for an eighteen five seasons. But you're probably I think you're right about that. I mean, French, there's nothing more awkward than French humor, right right, exactly trying to figure out and I've been there many times, trying to figure out

That's my point. All right, let's talk about the SEC because another big offseason story has obviously been the coaching turnover you had Jimbo Fisher, Jeremy Prue At, Joe moorehead, Dan Mullin, Chad Morris, Matt Luke. You've also got some assistant hires, top flight assistant hires, and Mike Elko at a and M and John Chavis at Arkansas. Josh Gaddis stolen away from my alma mater, Penn State, now coaching wide receivers at Bama. What is your sense for how

Yeah, I think you almost have to, because you know, you look at the draft this past.

Weekend and once again the SEC had the most players taken.

And that's despite the fact that if you were to, you know, recap the SEC last season, it was three teams, So it was Alabama, Georgia, and Auburn. Those were really good teams that the first two more so than Auburn, So Auburn bet both of them but they didn't produce all those NFL players. Florida still had guys taken, LSU still had guys taken. So we know there's that, you know, the talents there, and some schools needed a new coach. So you know, I put in my past spring top

It wasn't so much like a defined ending as much as it just stopped.

People stopped paying attention.

Yeah, it just dropped off a cliff.

Yeah, like people watched the Florida Tennessee game. I remember watching the Kentucky game where Kentucky completely blew it, and then by the Georgia game, it was just like, all right, we've had enough of them and Florida. Florida and Florida State played a football game last year and I'm not sure anybody saw it outside of the stadium. So anyway,

That's rough. So I don't know.

Florida could that surprise team. A and M could be that surprise team?

I do.

I really like Mississippi State, but they're not a total surprise. They were top twenty five team last year, so you know, I think it'll be. I do think it'll be a little deeper than last year. Maybe Alabama's still dominant, and maybe even Georgia too, but maybe a little bit more of a middle class which just was not in that which the conference just didn't have last year.

Hey everyone, just a quick note to remind you that today's show is brought to you in part by our good friends over at zip Recruiter. Every business needs great new people and an even better way to find them, So forget about posting your job online and just praying the right people find it. Zip recruiter has that smarter way. They built a whole platform around it that helps find

No, there's a reason for that.

He has. He has completely shut off access to himself in that program. He has not allowed a single Bruce s Feldman or Andy Staples or whoever to come to a sit down interview with him.

He has.

I don't know if the assistants have either. There's just you know, you think, oh you seel a la major media market. Well, they always get kind of second fiddle treatment to begin with the USC and if you can't talk to anybody there, then they're going to get no treatment. So I'm sure that's by design. I know that they're probably not having very good team this year. Maybe he's tempering expectations a little bit, but you know he's not. He's not out there doing the booster circuit by any means.

Guys still think it was the home run higher.

Whoever would end up getting him would be making the home run higher of this past coaching carousel, and UCLA won those sweepstakes, and I think they'll do well, but I don't think it'll be an instant, instant impact kind of thing, like when he got to Oregon and Dennis Dixon was already there and Jonathan Stewart was already there and he had a lot of success right.

Off the bat.

So you think you would rate chip Kelly to UCLA higher than someone like Jimbo Fisher to A and M.

Yeah, because chip Kelly is.

So much of it is about I mean, the whole Jimbo to A and M thing still feels a little weird to me. I'm sure I'll get over it at some point, but he has no ties whatsoever to there. They're paying forwenty five million dollars. It's have you noticed that this offseason whenever they show Jimbo Fisher, he's wearing like a blazer and a button down shirt that's unbuttoned at the top.

So you can like, it's.

He's getting paid all that money. Now, how are you gonna spare?

I don't know, I'm not I'm not trying to make any bold predictions here, but no, I mean, I think chip Kelly is unique. He's one of the most innovative coaches that we've seen come through, and generally speaking, those guys, those guys, it's not lightning in a bottle. They're able

I don't know.

It's impossible for me to picture him in the SEC. But when it was Washington, I remember everybody felt like, oh yeah, that makes sense and chip Kelly back in the Pack twelve because I remember Florida fans thought they had him.

They chip Kelly Florida coach. Done deal.

And I kept saying, I don't know, I don't know if he wants to go there. He probably wants to be in the in the Pac twelve if he can, and that's what happens.

So it's a good spot for him.

I don't I don't think he'll be instant impact because it's going to take him a little bit to build up his program. I think the Jimbo thing is interesting because he actually has a lot of youth that he can work with. But the two in particular we talked about Joe moorehead in Mississippi State. We just think on this show anyway, we've talked about how we think that's

Yeah, and you know what, I'm going to take back what I said earlier, Chip is the one a to Scott Frost and Nebraska as the number one home run higher of this past offseason.

That's very specific to that.

It's such a good fit.

Yeah, it's the perfect fit, and frankly one that I didn't know he for sure that he would do.

I mean, it turned out.

After the fact that he was a done deal for weeks, but at the time there was a lot of well, I don't know, he might feel like he has a better chance to win national championships at Florida, and he might off for Florida over Nebraska. But he went home and he's I mean, the excitement is off the charts. There's you know, I know several writers who went to Nebraska this spring. They said there's forty to fifty reporters

How good are they going to be this coming season?

I think they certainly have a better talent on hand than than U.

S LA does right now.

But it's not top twenty five quite yet, but that'll happen pretty soon, and he's going to give them an identity. They're going to be basically the organ of the Midwest. And that's something that Nebraska has been lacking for this entire century. I mean basically since they went away from the triple option, which was their hallmark. What has the identity of Nebraska football been? I mean, for for the only thing I could come up with this for a while,

Do you have a general sense for the direction of the Big Twelve this year because it feels like there's a lot of turnover.

I think it feels a little bit more wide open for a simple reason. Baker Mayfield's gone and Bob Stoops for that matter.

You know, I'm not.

Taking any the thing away from Lincoln Riley, but you know now is when when the real challenge for him begins life after the number one pick.

So you know they've they've.

Dominated that conference for the last three years when they had this transcending quarterback. And so does that open the door this year if they have a step back, and I think that's inevitable. How much for a step back, I don't know, But the unrealistic Kyler Murray will come in and do all the things Baker Mayfield did. That open in the door for a West Virginia for a TCU who I'm really high on.

At Kansas State.

I don't think Texas is ready to contend for a Big Twelve title yet, but I am interested to see what kind of progress they make.

Do I understand correctly that you're not gung Ho in Florida State.

Well, I didn't have him in the spring top twenty five, if that's sure to I had him just outside of it. And that was actually, let me think for a second, I think I had them in the one in January because there was this expectation that you know, Jimbo had punted on the last part of that season and once they get your under here, basically like once they get DeAndre france Will back, they'll be in much better shape.

But it turns out the Andre Francois was selling drugs.

And I don't know who the quarterback's gonna end up being there, but that that did not you know, that was not exactly the best sign for Willy Taggart's first team at Florida State.

Do you like the higher though of Wily Taggart at Florida State?

I do.

I think he's a good coach. Obviously his career has taken off. Great recruiter, and again it's one of those things where Willie tagger to Oregon was kind.

Of brandom in terms of which school.

I mean, he was going to go to a Power five school, but he really had no ties to that part of the country.

But he grew up a big FSU fan.

He was just coaching in that state two years ago, so that hiring makes sense for a lot of reasons.

All Right, my final question here, two questions actually for you. We got one on Twitter from Andy Staples, and he poses a very interesting dilemma. Some forty one in Newfound Glory are playing at the same time but different venues. Which one of those two shows do you attend? Assuming you can't make it to both.

Yeah, I saw that, and I gotta be honest. So I was a huge pop punk fan in the days, but certain bands have.

Remained in my memory more than others.

And I have to say, when I saw his tweet, it's like I hadn't thought of some forty one. I hadn't forgotten some forty one existed until that tweet. That they are so far off the radar for me. But I do still love Newfound Glory, so that wouldn't be very that wouldn't be a tough choice.

I went back and listened to Fat Lip.

That's funny. So did I.

Into Deep a few of those songs that you can get pretty quickly on Spotify. It doesn't hold up, does it?

No?

No, really, don't hold up the way that it was just that one album, right. I remember being totally taken by All Killer, No Filler, and then years later to go back and listen to it Newfound Glory. Their stuff had much more staying power.

Yeah, and I can't really explain why that is, but you're absolutely right. A band that that gets no credit in that era, and they may have been toward the tail end of that era is something corporate. Oh yeah, if you listen to them now, like that could be a popular band right now, some forty one probably would not get a record deal.

Well, you you're also pretty into the whole tailor swift thing.

Well, that's the things you get older. You become lazy man. You're not really like actively seeking out music the way you were when you were nineteen, and so you start consuming it more. I guess I shouldn't assume everybody this way, but me personally, I just become more and more passive about it. So you just you just hear Taylor's fist songs by Osmosis and you're like, oh, those are catchy.

What I'm going to do after I hang up with you is I'm randomly going to call Mama. H up. Every time I go over there. She's got t swift plan.

I went to her show at Levi Stadium on the last tour and I just saw and it was great. But I just saw an ad that she's playing there again. I think in next weekend or the weekend after.

Would you would you go again?

Would I go again?

I think that was one of those ones where you've seen it once, you've seen it, and I don't need to see her play those songs again. The band that I just keep going back to the band from when I was nineteen years old is Weezer. I saw them there's a I live five minutes from Shoreline Amphitheater in Mountain View. They played there two years ago and I went, and they're playing this summer and I bought the tickets months ago, and it's for people of my age. It's

I don't even know.

Why the whether the pixie should be the opening act, the or the headliner.

I saw Weezer about two years ago here in Bethlehem at Music Fest, and I came away a little underwhelmed.

Well, you know, we're slightly different age, and there's a study recently about it was pretty fascinating. I'll try to sum it up as quickly as I can. They used Spotify's data to figure out like, for instance, let's sake the sweater song like, based on that study, the people who download that or listen to that stream that song the most are people my age, people who were nineteen

All right. Well, he is the frontman of the All American on the Athletic family of websites. His name is Stuart Mandel. Also check out his podcast that he does with our friend Bruce Felban. It's called The Audible as always really good stuff and it's good to have you back on the show. It's been far too long, so wish you nothing but the best with the venture. Keep doing what you're doing and we'll have to talk again soon.

Thanks so much, ty I always enjoy coming on here and we'll talk again soon.

All right, again, that's Stuart Mandel. You can find him over on the All American as part of the Athletics Network of Great Sports websites. I mentioned at the end that I was going to call Mama h to talk about Taylor Swift. Let's let's actually give her a call here and see if she has anything controversial to say. Hello, Mom, Yes, you're actually on the podcast.

Okay, what are we talking about?

Let's talk about tilor Swift?

What would you like to talk about Taylor Swift? She hasn't been in the news much lately, although she'll be starting her reputation tour. I suppose it was very soon.

I need someone to talk to. I talked to Stuart Mandel, you know Stu.

Okay, yeah, I know who that is. Yeah, And he.

Was telling me about a show he went to see, a Taylor Swift show at Levi Stadium.

Okay, did he say which one it was?

Which show?

Yeah? Like which album he went to?

I mean, you know, I think it was a war. I think it was a couple of years ago. Oh, okay, what are your what are your top three songs off the New Tailor.

Album off the New Tailor a.

Reputation because if we tried to power rank all of them, we'd be here forever. But everyone on the show, everyone who listens to the show, knows that you're pretty big Taylor Swift fan. So he started talking Taylor Swift, and it jogged my memory. I'm thinking I should call mom. So what are your top three top three songs from the album?

Yeah, okay, I actually liked Reputation, the song.

Okay.

I liked end Game because I like anything she does with ed sheering.

Okay, I'm writing these down the way.

And then it's either Delicate or Gorgeous. I don't know which one, you know. The Delicate video just kind of came out not too long ago, which was kind of intriguing.

I haven't seen any of the videos, but Delicate's an underrated song.

I'll give you that.

Okay, Well, how about Gorgeous?

I don't know that one. That one doesn't jog my memory.

Well, in the very beginning of it, well, I don't know. They just they they say it's about her new boyfriend or whatever. You know. So, but you know, I listened to them and as I learned the words or whatever to them, I end up liking most of them, so,

You know, well, see, now you're not a country music fan, so this is like a natural dilemma.

He's not a twangy country person. She never was, Okay, I mean, she definitely has her roots in country, but there's I mean I like listening to her. I like Keith Urban. I mean he's country too, but he's not country country, you know what I mean. It's like, you know, they're not the cars aren't crashing and they're drinking their

I don't know, So let's go here, let's close out here. What are you? What are you listening too lately? On on your speaker on Spotify.

You're not gonna believe this, okay, or maybe you will believe it. I don't know. I just I saw the movie The Greatest Showman.

I love yah Hugh Jackman.

Yeah. I love listening to music that is from an original motion picture. And I love the music from I love the music from that, and I could just keep listening to it over and over again. I'm always amazed at Hugh Jackman's ability to do what he does. I mean, from The Wolverine to lay Miz to now this Pet Barnum. But the music is all original. I listened to that a lot. And I'll tell you what else I listened to.

Okay, so I like that.

I always like listening to Ed Sheeranto, you know, I like his music, and that would be me.

All right, mama, So are we are?

We signing off? Now?

We're going to sign off. I'll I'm sure I'll talk to you later.

Okay, all right, Haunt, thanks for calling. All right, take care you too, Bye bye.

All right. There you have it, a little bit of a left turn bringing Mama H into the show here. Hope everyone enjoyed it. Big thanks to Stuart Mandel again from the All American Big thanks to Mama H for talking a little music. Big thanks to all of you for downloading the show. Don't forget you and find us out on Facebook, on Twitter, on Instagram, and anywhere where find podcasts are sold. Dan and I have a bunch going down over the next couple months or so, so