Welcome to the solid verbal home.
That for me. I'm a man, I'm forty.
I've heard so many players say, well, I want to be happy. You want to be happy for a day?
Edith Steak is that woo woo? And Dan and Tye.
Welcome back to the solid verbal Boys and girls. My name is ty Hildebrand, joining me as always over there in beautiful Chicago, Illinois, the one, the only Dan Rubinstein, Sir.
How are you? I'm good.
It actually has been pretty beautiful. It's been sunny, and in the sixties and seventies, we went over to the lake. It's hard for me to call it the beach, but we went over to the lake and little Man stomped around a bus, you know, did an Easter egg hunt, did all sorts of fun stuff outside, and I'm I'm doing pretty good. I'm very excited for this show. With the draft ahead, I always get very annoyed at the all the articles that come out that say or the
tweets and people saying, ah see, stars don't matter. This this two star got drafted number eight overall, when obviously the math would indicate differently that you're far more likely to be drafted and drafted highly if you are a blue chip athlete, just because there are fewer of them and the percentages are in your favor that way. But I like to know individual stories at the same time, why guys get passed over as you know high school recruits, and what is behind the tape and the numbers and
the history of these guys as recruits. I'm fascinated by all of this because, as I'm sure Brandon will point out, if NFL gms and scouts were in charge of vetting all actual important positions in life, we'd be living in a much better way.
Well, they do their homework.
They do their homework because it's an investment in their future, especially if you're picking high up in the draft. It really does have a domino effect. So we wanted to bring Brandon on this is Our Like Before They were Stars kind of show, because Brandon's evaluated all these kids. Perhaps he can give us a little bit of insight into their college career as we saw it as fans,
what he projects forward into their NFL career. It is the month of April now, and as we forge ahead, there's going to be a lot of talk in football circles about the NFL Draft. That's just the way it is, whether you're an NFL fan or not. There is a connection into college football, and this is something that I know you and I have seen over the last couple of years, I think increasingly so as the draft has
become more prominent. But there are people college football fans maybe don't have any bent towards the NFL who like to follow along, like to look at mock drafts like the enter pools, because there is that college football tie in some of our favorite players moving on getting to that next level. One of the questions I know we're going to ask him that you have for Brandon is
who you're rooting for? Like, this is a fan as somebody who's rated these guys out, Who are you rooting He's been around them, he's been around them, all of them. Who are you rooting for just on a personal human level to succeed at the next level more so than maybe some others given your affiliation. So yeah, he definitely brings a unique insight that I don't think we've ever fully tapped into in all the years that we've been
doing this show. We're going to bring him on here momentarily to talk about some of these prospects and the NFL Draft. Don't forget follow along on social media if you haven't already, follow along the solid verbal on your podcasting app of choice and wink wink, nudge nudge going out to verbalers dot com. That is our Patreon. That's why we're doing some bonus stuff. We've got an off topic Q and a show coming up pretty soon. I
have to check the calendar exactly when that is. But that has been a big hit thus far in this year off season, some of those off topic shows that we've done. Always excited to do the next one with you.
Because we had talked about doing kids sports movies from the nineties. Is that a preference? Or is kids game shows from the nineties? Oh like Nickelodeon, nick Arcade and Legend Temple. I you know what, I desperately you can make an executive decision here.
I don't know.
I want to.
I want to take it in from the verbowler at soliverable at gmail dot com, reach out in social or through Patreon. I desperately wanted to go on where in the world is Carmen san Diego? Desperately desperately that show so much desperately, and I can speak to it first person.
Going on a game show as.
A kid, So a couple game shows as a kid too, as a legitimate kid. Yeah, legitimate kid, right, okay, legitimate kid. Brandon Hoffman, National recruiting editor from twenty four to seven, Sports stopping on by. Let's have a listen, all right, Dan joining us Now we have them on a couple times a year.
Frankly, it's not enough. It's our friend, Brandan Hoffman from twenty four to seven and tour a high school time tour a high school. Usually we bring you on, Brandon to talk about all things recruiting. This show is isn't too far of a departure from that. But obviously with the NFL Draft coming up, there are a lot of names that you see in your mock drafts, some guys
that maybe you aren't familiar with. And Dan and I had this concept, like, what were some of these guys like in high school, you know, before they were stars? What kind of I don't know, foreshadowing is out there. Maybe that you saw that some of the others out there are doing mock drafts didn't have access to so we thought we'd bring you on here again. The month of April is like all about the NFL mock drafts, and clearly there's a tie in with college football there
as well. So we're excited to talk with you. How are you though, before we get any further, what are you doing with yourself in this yere early part of April.
You know, it's a unique kind of year for me, as it is in a normal spring, there's a lot of camps, seven on seven tournaments, showcases to yodu, but now I get the addeds onus of having high school football games up and around the West Coast in California and Oregon and Washington in actual seasons going on. So I've had about three weekends or I've went to three or four one weekend with the five high school games over the span of three days, all while sandwiching in
a Arizona for the underarmer camp. So it's kind of that unique blend of you know, the fall and the spring all happening at once.
But hey, it's good. I waited a long time to watch high sea football and I'm finally geting that opportunity to do it.
So one thing I wanted to always ask you as it relates to NFL mock drafts. Do people consult with you before putting their round by round things together? Or that's my point exactly, But I'm wondering, like to what end do people hit you up and be like, yo, Brandon, what do we know about this guy?
To be completely frank with you, I will have talked to a number of NFL agents and mostly regional scouts, not necessarily the director of scouting, but a guy who may be the area scout for you know, an AFC Central team might reach out to me, or an area scout for an NFC team might reach out to me, and mostly just learn about the player that they're looking for and what his background was like as a high school player, what was his you know what was not
his charge? But like what was the company he kept? You know who? What did his high school coaches think? What did you think him as a high schooler? What were the people that were around him? Like? And I mean when people say that NFL front offices do their homework on potential drafts draft they're lying. I mean it is if you're going to call a slappy like me who hasn't deublet some of these guys in five six years. You know, they really do want to make sure that
no stone is left unturned. And I'll talk to another of them after a pro day. You know, there's been a couple of proteins I've gone to in years past and I'll have an area of Scots constany and say, hey, here's I never get be called after. I want to talk about those sort of guys, plus the four guys at this school. So it happens all the time, but it's mostly just kind of a union before where they became a college process.
What'd you think of them then? Well, you know, how were their parents.
How were their coaches, how were their trainers? Blah blah blah, Just to give them any kind of insight that they think they can take back to the war room and make the right pickoff.
The follow up question then, is based on that advice that you've given out in the past, as you've seen some of these guys go on into the league and try to make their mark. How accurate do you feel your advice has been.
I see my advice is always accurate.
The NFL team it up all the time.
Correct, good answer, good answer.
Thank you, thank you. But you know, but I will say that it is the one time of year where when people say stars don't matter and this and that, and you know, this guy was a two star at every lect. So the past progressive tweets about, oh well.
JJ Watt was a two star warll.
Jj Watt was also a walk on and one hundred and fifteen schools missed out on him when he was a high schooler. And the same thing with Aaron Rodgers. General managers screw up the NFL dress all the time. I mean, I'm a Cleveland Browns. I watched it happen for about thirty seven straight years. And it's amazing how the mons draft analysts can get a free pass, but the folks that are in charge of stars and ratings don't.
When NFL games are screwing this thing up. Some of these NFL games can screw up a glass of water. And so it's fascinating that all the intel that they have, all the information they have, they still can make bad decisions in bad and drafting.
One of the fascinating things because we do get those stories. We do get those stories where you know, JJ Watt was a two star tight end at Central Michigan and you know, became what he became at Wisconsin when he moved over to defense. And usually there's context to why a recruit is rated the way they are be it like they have a very late weight gain, or they shoot up their growth spurt, happened super late in high school or junior college, or they're hurt this year.
What is the.
Percentage of time that you would say you and the twenty four to seven whatever ESPN rival community just full on, flat out miss on a guy. And how much of it it is like circumstantial, Like we didn't think he would qualify. He was five seven as a junior, and then he was six too as a senior. Like how much is it? How much is explained away with easy context.
I mean, I would say that more and more, we're becoming much more accurate. We're having much better hits and what we're seeing as high schoolers and then projecting three or four years down the line. But you're gonna have guys that through the cracks. You're gonna have situations, you know, and I've talked about this one over the last year.
You know, Justin Herbert is a great example.
You know, when I was on lead his senior year in high school, dealing with my daughter's illness, So I never got.
To see him play his senior year.
And you know, some of the biggest ls that I took in rankings happened in that twenty and sixteen recruiting class with Taylor rep with Justin Herbert, with you know, guys like Evan Weaver, and you know, there's situations like that,
you just don't get eyes on these guys. You don't see him at anyth In the case of Herbert, you know, he broke his leadi as a junior, he didn't do a lot of camps, he didn't do seven on seven, So it was just kind of one of those hues, out of side, out of mind, and then nobody had a chance to see him play his senior year at Sheldon High School. And you know, four years later he ends up a top five pick and an NFL Rookie of the Year and all anybody wanted to talk about out West that year.
Was Jacob Meson.
So there are still cases like that through the cracks and they needing the big school will land guys that nobody's trying to do, or they'll land a guy like a Matt Jones, who was essentially a throw in, a guy who's bet on himself realizing hey, I'm going there at the same time too is and I could go to Kentucky and everything will be great. And you still just think the kid's going to see the field and
now he's a potential first round pick. I mean even the big schools have those guys that kind of surprise everybody, including the school that landed him.
So who are the big crack slippers for lack of a better term, and this year's draft, when you look at the guy who's projects to go first night or the first couple of days, who are those guys where you're like, not nobody could see this coming because a college coach and a college program or programs obviously saw something coming, saw some sort of glimmer. But who who seems to be the furthest away from the recruiting community's radar that is now considered a blue chip NFL prospect.
I mean Jack Wilson, there's probably no better player here, and he can make a case too that you know, there's a guy like Trey Lance, who I think is now probably cemented the fact that every North Dakota State quarterback moving forward will end up being rated highly because of him, because of uh oh gosh, what's our guy in Philadelphia's.
Name, Carson Wentz Carson.
Yeah, yes, so there may be you know, a closer love given in North Dakota State quarterback. But you know it's not like Jack Wilson was a No Namer at the time. He was committed to Boise State and he ended up putting the BYU late wanted to go to Utah, and I mean think about Utah for a second. His dad, mom, welcomes to Utah, the kid Juna playing for Utah, and
Utah would all in on Jack Tuttle. Meanwhile, Zach Wilson ends up at Boise State, cal decides to bring in jay Z Shroud over him, and Jake Shout ends up decommitting going to test. In fact, I ran into Zach Wilson's dad last weekend at the under Our camp in Phoenix and we had a good lass. And by saying we, I mean he had a good laugh at how Zach's recruitment was so boring early on and how it's all
turned out. It was the day after his pro day and you know he's on thirds of Cal basically saying, hey, we got a quarterback, you don't need to ring the Camp Boise skate, then essentially driving to Boise to try to get seen by the coaches, and then BYU gives a late offer to Zach Wilson and the rest is history. You know, he was a mid the solid three star tip guy. Wasn't the biggest guy, wasn't the biggest arm and I would say that because of what Zach Wilson
did at BYU. And then you look at the season that Jackson Dark had at the same Eyes school at Corner Canyon up in draper Uta, who again, he too was a late bloomer, and he had the benefit of having a senior season when a lot of the West Coast teams weren't. He was the hottest quarterback recruit in the country by the fall, and part of that was because of Look what Zach Wilson did at YU. So
there's nobody in this question. You look at the Trevor Lawrence as, the Jamar Chases, the Canay Seols, the Justin Fields, Michael Parsons, all those guys were consensus top ten, top fifteen all American type guys. And then Zach Wilson's kind of the old Destiny Street. You know, one of these guys is not like the other.
One of the things are maybe the thing that makes quarterback or projecting quarterback success as a high schooler to college and then college to the pros is you only have one quarterback on the field at a time. So that means there's only opportunity for so many guys to prove themselves and to prove themselves in the right situation and to have injury luck and to you know, have receiver injury luck, offensive line injury luck, a coordinator sticking
around or having the right coordinator. There's so many different factors that go into the cocktail of quarterback success, and so it's it's understandable why that position is so difficult to evaluate. What is the next most difficult position? I mean, you see you mentioned Pine Sewel, he was a clear
high blue chip, elite recruit. And then it's Rashaun Slater at Northwestern, who I don't think anybody saw coming when you look at his offer list in the schools that he was down to was Northwestern in Illinois and Kansas and some G five schools. Is it offensive line? Is there a different position that's hard that's just as hard to project his quarterback. What position group stands out as just being kind of a crap shoot?
Yeah, I mean I would say with that question, it's offensive line, and it always has it, because where the danger starts to lie is that you see a guy who is dominant in high school and dominant maybe in college, but then doesn't necessarily have the projectable traits to the NFL. Then the flip said, you might see a guy who's two forty playing left tackle out of necessity for his high school team. He gets to college and now he's
playing at two sixty to seventy eighty. Then by the time the carline comes around, he's two ninety, but he's still moving like the two hundred and forty times tight end he.
Used to be.
There's just so much development. It's funny, though, because if I look back at someone like my best hit, they were offensive linement, and I look back my biggest Smiths ever was a running back, and all three of those guys in the same draft class are in the same
recruiting boss. Who was yere GARYL. Scott number one out West and I actually had the lowest of any recruiting site, but he was another one running back, but then two and three went Tyron Smith and Nat will who both ended up being the first half of picks and consecutive drafts. So there's easy to kind of maybe see the elite guys, but you know, you have in.
Recent years there's been this real shift.
Toward finding the guys that are a little bit on the center side as high schoolers that maybe aren't the no doubt, no brainers the day they get on campus, they developed into that, and you know, you look at it, it's like a Mitch Hyatt. Mitch Higat started with four years. It comes in on two national championship teams and three that played a national championship games and probably some of the best offenses of the last decade and didn't get drafted.
And you know, he was the elite offensive lineman coming out of high school. But then you see that there's the other guys, like those Seawan Platers that kind of just develop and they put on the good weight. And there's been some some.
Analytics done over the last few years.
I think there's a four year gap in the NFL draft where not one offensive lineman was drafted in the first round who weighs over three hundred pounds as a high schooler, and I mean you think about offensive lineman. You look at the three hundred plus pounders in high school, they look like they got the bodies that are ready
to withstand the collegiate grind. And now you're seeing this shift and more and more players are, you know, center as high schoolers, and coaches want to put the good weight on them, they want to develop them in the size that they want. Then you've got a guy that today, Sewell, who's the opposite. It took Organ taking the bad weight off of him and now he's a potential top two, top three pick.
So who are some names when you look back at their recruitment that you think it was a particularly fascinating trajectory that they had as recruits and as college players now seeing the sort of end of their evaluation period as NFL draft prospects. What are the names that stand out that you'll always remember their recruitment and story.
Yeah, I mean, you know, there's there's a couple of guys. I'm gonna go kind of West Coast as strong on this, but it makes sense. One was whyatt David And part of that was because you know why it's older brother, David, played at Peninsular Palis Bridi's high school, was lightly recruited, played at Washington State, was at cal and I remember talking to his dad and dad said, hey, you've always been so helpful. There's anything you can you know, do you ever need for me let me know? I said, well,
I already know the answer this question. But asked, were you Alvin Max in the program?
And he said, yeah, I used to do a.
Little action back in the day. And like he was the greatest college football player in the history of the cinema by far, Like you will never find a more dominant college football player. He was Monte's birthday before there was Vontes birthday, you know, And it was so funny, you know, by the time why it was a senior he was so tired of that story that why it started to say, dude, I was bury in Pancake al Thannack every single play.
Well did you watch what Why it does in Ohio State?
And you're like, you know, what, he might have been right, he might have done exactly what twelfth grade Why David Day. But you know, the fun fact that people very few people know about Why Davis is that his grandfather is an NFL Hall of Famer. You know, we think about his dad being this college football star on the movies and all the different athletes he play, but you know, he comes from a good bloodline in terms of an NFL Hall of Famers. So it's been fun to watch
why I kind of come into his own. I would say, here's the one. And I tweeted about this a bunch during the season.
It wasn't like the guy wasn't a known name.
I mean, DeVonta Smith was a five star coming out of high school. He was part of arguably the best three headed monster receiver class that that you know, college football has ever seen. Or we'll see what the Ohio state class in the next couple of years out to be. But the Jerry Judy, Henry Ruggs Devonte Smith three headed monster was pretty impressive. And you know, the last time we saw Devontae Smith as a high schooler, he was on a viral cliff at the Army All American Bowl
and it was an East West scrimmage one day. And the one doctor Vante Smith still is dealing with right now is what.
Size skinny skinny?
Okay, So you know that's been something he's been dealing with for four or five years. And Richard, look who went to Georgia, basically drove him a good twenty five thirty yards off the field. It was kind of like watching the blind style of Michael Ower drove the kid off the field. So this really happened, and it happened in a day and age where everybody had their cameras out and the cliff probably had over.
A million views.
And what I remember the most vividly about the play is in this day, they's a lot of kids was sold. If they get did dirty, they'll go on Twitter, they'll get combative. Devonte Smith to go down after the practice to talk to do some interviews, and he looked at John Garcias, who I worked at the time, and he said, first me, he says, how bad is it? And John goes, it's pretty bad. He's like, is it viral yet? And John goes, it's really viral and DeVante just goes, damn
and he laughed. He says, all right, let's see the interview, like he just took the lot. Well. A year later, Devonte Smith is going to torture Richard's account and his dreams for the rest of his life because he gets the walk off touchdown to be Jordia to win the national championship three years later as arguably, you know, the greatest season, if not one of the greatest careers ever
for a collegiate receiver. And to think about, like the last time we saw this guy as a high schooler was him getting thrown over the side of a bench on the sidelines to winning a Heisman trophy, winning a national championship. You know, it's been fun to watch it because of the way he handled it. He handled it so graciously. So those are two guys that I've always and that twenty seventeen class, you know, he also have Jaln Phillips and the roller coaster his career.
You're stealing my thunder. That was my next question.
Yeah, and I'll let you ask the question. But he's another one that twenty seventeen class. Quite some stories that interesting recruitment, interesting roller coaster of a career that all time. Then that's still with the likes that they're going to be gone on Thursday night.
So you bring up Jalen Phillips right now, I'm looking at one of the mock drafts. He's a first round pick. I think according to is this CBS, yeh, CBS, they've got him going in the twenties. I think to the Saints maybe. But Jalen Phillips, like you said, loaded class a few years back, I believe, was the number one overall recruit per the twenty four to seven historical rankings. He's one of the top fifty best recruits of all time.
So clearly a que who came in with a lot of acclaim but had a bit of a journey to get to this state, right signed with UCLA, eventually catches on with Miami, has a pretty good year. You know, I hate to ask the talk about question, but talk about Jalen Phillips and the journey that he's been on that brought him to Where is that now where I guess he's realizing that full potential.
Yeah, because you know, one of the most fascinating side notes about Jalen Phillips is I believe he is the only player in the twenty four seven Sports compositive history who was not named the number one player by any of the media outlets that covered recruiting. And that's what's interesting is you look at the guys who had been the number one composite player in the years before the years after, they were all ranked number one by at
least one of the four. At the time when Jalen Filos was named the composite number one, there were four recruiting sites Scalps, which is where I was at the time, twenty four to seven from that now, ESPN and Rivals, and neither of those for sites had him as their number one player, but all force sites had him up high enough. And there was such a difference in who was ranked number one at the Xagia Hair was number
one at Scout. I want to say cam Akers might have been number one at ESPN, and so there was this wise kind of opinion on who the actual number one player was by all four sites. To get Jalen Phillips ends up the number one composite players. So fast forward him get into the UCLA. He starts in their season opener against Texas A and m has a couple
of players. I think he had a couple tackles for loss, a couple of hurries and shows some splashes really early on that he was going to be a special player. Then I want to say about least three or four he sprained his ankle and was never really the stain. Jim Morrig gets fired at the end of the year. Chip Kelly comes in. Jalen Phillison's having another injury. He suffers and I want to say, like a scooter kind of accident at UCLA that destroys his wrist. He leaves
Ucla on basically he was retired from football. The talk at the time that he was retiring from football may stay at UCLA. Ultimately decided to pursue a career in music, ended up at Miami and completely was re vitalized in Nanny as a defense to the point where he's now going to be a first rounder most likely. Still, yeah, he won't be the number one overall pick, but he's essentially a hit, a five star going in the first round. And all it took was a change of scenery, you know.
And I remember when he picked Ucla. At the time, he seemed like a lot for Stanford. That was the spring of his junior year and his recruitment was picking out. Stanford was just coming off the Christian McCaffrey Rose Bowl win over Iowa. You know, they were once again the hot team out in the Pac twelve.
They had won.
Gosh what, their third Pac twelve title in about four years. At that point he was a four point zero student and he still didn't beat Stanford for those kind of guys. Ever, with Jim Mora and David Shot and Glen Phillis decided pretty early on he wanted to.
Go to UCLA for his dad went. So he was a legacy to some extent.
But you know, for him to come around full circle after it looked like he was walking away from the game of football to then being the dominant player that we all saw in high school. This guy then he played linebackers, He's put out wide play receiver, he could play outside of the end, he put his hands down play a three second. He played just about everywhere. I think he had like a five or six bag game
at one point at Redland Sally. And now you know, he ends up revitalizing under many dias and you know he's a success story. But it's not like he's a guy who outplayed his ranking. He more than I guess, more than anything, lived up to the ranking. It just took a hell of a journey to get there.
You know who the nub well, I know you know the answer. The number two player in the twenty seventeen class.
I want to say it was Nagie Harris.
It was Naji Harris.
Naji Harris also on our list here of guys to ask about, because look, he's obviously been a fixture, he's been a standout performer at Alabama, was the number two overall recruit in that twenty seventeen class. And weirdly, I don't know if it's because running backs often get devalued a bit as we go into the NFL Draft. I don't know if it's because he played on just such
a cast of all stars at Alabama. I don't know what it is, but Naji Harris has fallen into like the second round here per some of these mock drafts. I don't feel like I've heard a lot of him over the last couple months, really, not any of the running backs, because so much has been focused on quarterbacks.
And wide receivers.
But I remember talking to you shortly after Naji Harris was signed on at Alabama, and you were gung ho on Naji, gung ho on him. And it wasn't until last year, maybe this year, when we saw more of him that we got to see as college football fans that dynamic of having incredible moves and elusiveness with the power, and I guess maybe like the closest analog to an Alabama running back in the NFL having crazy success at least currently is someone like a Derreck Henry. This is
a guy who's a different back. He's maybe not as powerful as Henry, but he probably has better moves.
Not only that, I think Nagie Harris is one of the best pass catching running backs that I've seen in the last five to seven years, And that was something about him that I always really appreciated that when you're an elite player, when you're even an elite back, seven on seven is not necessarily a great avenue for inside linebackers and running backs to show what they do their bet You know, linebackers are inside guys. They're the ones
that shut down running games. They're the ones that get into the backfield, and maybe they're not as good in pass cotvergs with running backs. Hey, I'm the guy that takes the hand off and runs over people, you know, but I'm not used to the ball being thrown to me. I'm used to being put in my bread basket and then I run but now he did a ton of seven on seven just so he can improve as a pass catcher, can really be a weapon as a receiver. But when you watched him run the ball, I mean
it was a treat. Guys just could not bring him down in the open field. I mean, if you were an elite open field tack where he'd make you look like an average field tack where because he would either run over you, run around you, run through you, or might do a way of finding doing all three at the same time. And I was convinced early on. I mean, I think he might have been when at the old scout dot Com rankings day, if he might have been
on wire to wire number one. When we saw him as a freshman, you could just tell he was special. And what I think kind of helped open the doors of why we thought he was going to be silly lead is you know he was coming out his freshman year was Joe Mixon's senior year. Joe Mixon was one
of the top backs out West. Leonard Fournette was also in that class, and you looked at it, he was kind of a combination of Fournette and Nixon in terms of just the all around game that he had, and then he doesn't put up video game members at a pretty high level in northern California, commits surly to Alabama. There were other schools that kept trying, but he doubled
down and stuck with Alabama. Then, you know, his senior year, his junior year as Derrick Henry Heiland Trophy when he sees and then at senior year he comes out and puts up more big numbers. And there was a big debate at that time who would better gamer camp makers even out west, Who's better Cam or Steed of car And you know, I think Cam Lakers was criminally underused at Florida State. But I think Nage his career played out exactly as he thought it.
Was going to be.
He knew going to Alabama that unless you were at Mika Fitzpatrick or even a Joan and Williams, there was a hard chance that it was going to be hard for a true freshman to come in and be the starter, especially with so many established players. And you know, Josh Jacobs was there. I want to say both Scarborough may have come back four year or maybe he left before that, but there was you know, a little bit of a blood of backs in Alabama's back of Damien Harris is there
as well, and it just took him time. He stayed the course, and you know he's going to go down historically as one of the most productive backs in that SEC history.
But like you said, the running back position has been so.
Devalued over the years that he may not be fully appreciated. Comes the draft, he's probably going to be, you know, one of the top two or three backs pick, but it might not be until they too. But I don't think that say away from the fact that he was every bit elite running back and the elite player we thought he would be, and I think Nick Samon got exactly what we thought. And hey, Derek Henry went the second round. I think there are a lot of NFL gms that would have loved and had that one.
That it's a good transition because you mentioned both Najia Harris and before DeVante Smith, guys who really have shown themselves to be impressive, not just on the field, but you hear them speak, you see there you learn more about their stories. Najia Harris, I think has become more outspoken these past few months, and DeVante Smith has certainly
carried himself really impressively. Who are the guys at or near the top of the draft just from interacting with them as humans that you're rooting for because you firmly believe they have a strong head on their shoulders and that you know they end up in the right situation that they're you know, their maturity will shine through with It's a very difficult thing to be an NFL player sometimes. Who are you rooting for as humans that's being talked about at or near the top?
Yeah, I mean this be a little bit of a cop out because he's going to be the number one pick in the draft and lets something crazy happened. But you know the attention that was thrust on Trevor Lawrence, it wasn't one of those where you know, he was the golden child, you know at a young age like Lebron when he's on the cover of magazines. But I mean he was pretty quickly identified as the number one player in that class, and you know, Scott we had
him as our number one player. Twenty four seven did as well.
There was a little bit of a dip after the opening.
Where twenty four seven, who we hadn't merged with at the time put Justin Fields at number one before ultimately studying on Trevor Lawrence. But I mean between the long hair, the just kind of the sunshine label that he was given, but just the expectations of what Trevor Lawrence was able to do, and you know, to really see what he became symbolic of college football over the last year and being so adamant about getting these guys to play, and
Justin Fields too. I mean, it's almost a cost out to say those are the two that you really root for, But the reality is those two.
Are going to be intertwined forever.
And you look at what both those guys meant to the game of college football the last two three years, and you know, each of them played for a national championship. Uh, you know, won one a national championship. They're both just the special players that they were one and two and you know there's a chance they can go one and two now. But it's more than what they did on the field. It's what they did off the field and the attention that they brought to the game and for
their peers and for their teammates. Those are two guys that just really root for and you know, they're going to be successful because like Kirk kerb Street, I mean, the whispers, it happens every year. There's always some agents in those rogues and tries to start, you know, knocking off one of the quarterbacks or a scout does it. But the whispers about Justin Field's and the work effic that's not at all anything that I've ever heard coming out of high school, coming out of college, either of
his collegiate stops, and you know Trevor Lawrence too. I mean, just both those guys. They meant so much to the game. Those are guys that are easy to root for, and they're super talented players on top of it. And you know, give me a chance to talk to Trevor Lawrence at the Opening I remember he at the time when he had come to the Opening Finals, he had just committed the clumbs in a couple of weeks before, and I
just kind of did a sidebar review. I was a guy who wasn't a familiar face because I was covering just the webs of the time, and you know, just talking to him, you realize the kid just loved football. He just wanted to be there, and he didn't care that he was a number one player. He didn't feel like he needed every rep and every throw, and he was fine sharing the duty on his seven on seventeen And even at that event, Justin Field went just nuts.
I mean, he was by far the best player after the opening that particular event and won the Elite eleven, won the ninety seven on, and you know, both of them, they were competitors, but Trevor Lawrence wasn't the guy that said I need to take every rest, screw this other
kid on my team. I don't know who the other kid he was, but it was kind of like, hey, we both earned our spot here, we both should have the opportunity to play, and just you know, you see things like that and you realize that these guys are good teammates, These are guys you want to go to battle with. And I think both those guys are players that you really root for. I mean, I already talked about Devonte Smith and just the way he handled the
whole Richard Accounty always earned him bonus points. But I just think the expectations of what Justin Field and Trevor Lawrence were supposed to do in college and what they were supposed to do now going to the NFL, you can't help but root for those guys.
I wanted to get your take. You mentioned justin fields. One of the bits of criticism that I've seen floating around now as we get closer to the draft is that he locks onto his primary receivers too much. I forget what the stat was and who did it. I'm probably batching this, but something like seventy percent of the time he is zeroed in on his primary receiver. And some have pointed out that they think that's that's important to note because you go to the NFL need to
be better with your progressions. When someone like you hears that, how do you react to it?
You know, I think it's a classic case of what every Scot deals with. You got to find something. You got to find a knock on everybody. Everybody. There's no p player, there's no perfect prospect. You have to find what their inability is, or what their area of weaknesses, or what the area they need to improve is.
And I think that's the one that e'sn given.
Unfortunately, that's not necessarily one you want to have a quarterback begin it. Maybe you want to say out, well, he takes too many risks. You know, maybe he throws a few too many interceptions because you've got such a strong arm that he tries to force these at times because you know that's the only speed he knows how to throw at. But the whole progressions things, I think that is something that ends up becoming your red flag
for some people. But I think it's unfair. I think when you have a receiver lack, a Crystal Lave or a Garrett Wilson at Ohio State, you lost the end of those primary receivers because you know you've got a mismatch on offense every single time. If I've got Chris Olave, who's going to blow by every defensive back just about that he lines up again, I'm going to find it.
Yet maybe he is the primary siver. You know, people didn't have a lot of those same knocks without Sam Darnold at USC being a guy that locked on the February receiver. When you look at USC's office going back to when Clay Helson was there, they always had one receiver who was kind of the guy who got the
majority of the touching. And I think if you look at the Alabama and the LSUS in the last few years, where you have four or five elite pass catchers and tied ends, then maybe Burrow and Tua aren't getting that as much because they're able to spread the field a little bit more that they have weapons. Ohio State's got a fantastic receiver room, but it was pretty top heavy this year with the Lave and with Garrett Wilson. They
have a lot of really good young talent. But you know, Jackson Giba, Julian Fleming, Gee, Scott Junior, none of those guys really emerged his true freshmen. You know, Jeremy Rutger didn't seem to get utilized much until the the ballgames, until the National Championship game. But a lot of it it's not so much he lost his premiary receivers. I've got the best receiver on the field. I've got a mismatch. I'm going for him and I'm gonna throw him open.
I think that's something, you know, It's funny when I talk to some of the NFL scouts and I know that say that they see the back gets overplayed a lot, that it's something that some people are just looking for a reason, you know, And how are you determining the eyes when you're watching the All twenty two from five hundred feet away, How are you able to determine who his eyes are on? I mean, the eyes aren't that
crystal clear. It's one of those where it kind of becomes the Every year we hear the buzzwords of the draft are different. Oh, I watched the tape taste the one thing. It's like the fax machine at letter of Intent. Nobody's watching tape anymore. Okay, we're all watching digital video. But it becomes the cool buzzword, and so that becomes the cool buzzword. Knock is Oh, he watched on to Well, if you have mismatches, you're going to exploit them. And I think that's what he did more than any thing,
is he's found his primary receiver. And I watched enough adjustment fields as a high schooler in the last couple of years of Ohio State to see when he needed to spread the field. He spread the field just fun. But when Chris Delator was blowing by an eb that's who he walked into and looked at the success that brought him.
It brought up six points almost every time.
Yeah, I mean that's and that's the thing, right, Like, did he have to go to a different receiver or with primary guys open.
It's also what he's asked to do too.
Write Well, it's.
Funny you bring that up, because I remembered talking to a Fact twelve head coach one time, and they were talking about the grading system that some media outlets will do the day after the game, and they'll say, oh, well, you know he was the leading you know, the leading defensive end of the country because he graded out of a ninety eight percent and the coach is saying, well, we did our internal grade. He rted out as like
a seventy six percent. He missed so many blocks or he missed you know this play and that It's like they're just looking at the end result. We're looking down at what player assignment was, what was he whether he askin to do, what do we need him to do? What is he expected to do? And he did not do the play right at all? What the end results ended up being that he fell backwards on to defensive end or you know, the running back trip and the look like the outside linebacker made the tackle for locks
in the backfield when he did everything wrong. Leaning up to that place remind me of you know, a teammate in high school who had I think like nine or ten interceptions one year. And normally you have your coach audience, and that's a lot of the receptions our coaches sweet of your nine interceptions. One time you actually did the right seat. And that's what people don't understand is what the coaches are asking and what the fans and the scouts as seem often are that's the different.
One thing that you slipped into an earlier answer was that you had I think it was Darrell Scott the lowest ranked of any of the recruiting analysts or services when he was the number one running back.
And I love that.
I love throwing in your own personal take. So when you look at this year's class, is there a player, so this is this year's draft class, is there a player that you remember, you know, standing on the table for saying there's no way this guy is a three star, this guy is going to have a great career that you can now say I told you so. As he appears to be a you know, a top fifty sixty prospect. Who is your I told you so from this year's class?
That maybe you you didn't win that argument when you were evaluating well.
I ultimately won the argument, but it was kind of a kind of a risk at first. And this is one that I think you'll like, Dan. It's Javon Hollands. You know, Javon Holland. At Scout. We were the first ones to make him a four star. Everybody else had him as a three star. He got invited to the Opening Finals, didn't get invited to the Army All American Bowls, didn't get invited to the under Arma All American Game, gets invited to Polynesian Bowl, And it was probably our
MVP throughout that full weekend. He was a player that as a sophomore, as a junior, you know, he could have been a wide receiver at the next level. And it was actually at about a two day event in Las Vegas that I saw him. At the Adidas Regionals or Addis National seven on seven, he had a touchdown catch playing receiver. In fact that it was Carson Straw, who's now the quarterback in Nevada, was the quarterback of that team, and it took Javan about four strides to
get himself open on this post for a touchdown. And it came a play after his team got the ball back where he was lined up on the right side of the field, went to go provide safety help to the left side, flipped his hips, did a clear strength back to the left side of the field to pick off a pass in that same game. Then he comes out in the roads like a forty five yard post for a touchdown, and we already had it as a
four star, but nobody else did. And I just kept thinking, like, I don't care what side of the ball this kid plays. This kid's going to be a special player in college. And he ended up starting I want to say it started pretty quickly into his freshman year at Oregon. Obviously was a huge part of their Roosevelt team as a sophomore. I didn't play the last year, but he was a player that I remember going early on and thinking that, you know, man, this kid is just a special football player.
I just need to figure out what the heck he's going to play. I think we originally rate him as a receiver, then we said athlete before we finally settled on dB and see what he did at Oregon was never really a surprise us because we thought early and I remember thinking, you know, after the week he had
fallen Agenbolle and you know, Jaban the nicest kid. But he even said to beginning fall an Asian Bowl League, you know, I want to make the other AFSCAR games, regret that they didn't invite me, and then he goes out and back to up the entire week. So he's a player that.
I still think too.
You know, his best football may still be ahead of him. Uh, just a versatile defensive back that could play really if he even played corner, he could, if he could play a free, he could play a strong, he could play you know, just about any spot in the secondary. And I think he's going to have a hell of a career.
Is there anybody that you were worried about that they were going to get lost in the shuffle? And it's sort of been a pleasant surprise that they were able to pop in college. You know, maybe it was you know, injury concerns in high school. Maybe it was you know, transferring a bunch or grades that like they just had a tough seeming road to success going from high school to college. Who is now considered to be a top level talent. That just a pleasant surprise for you.
Yeah, I mean I wouldn't say he's so much as a surprise as the kid just run every ounce ability out of his body. And again, I'm gonna go back to the state of Oregon this time, but I'm going to go back to Elijah Molden. You know, Elijah Moulding was a phenomenal high school football player. I mean as good of a high school football player as you did
ever imagine. I remember see him as a sophomore at West Lynne going to watch him play as a running back, and you know, he wasn't the biggest guy, wasn't necessarily the fastest kid out there. His dad a trainer half the ax abilities as a former first round or played at Oregon, played in the NFL. But with Elijah, you know, he was a great player, but he wasn't considered one
of the elite players nationally. And even if you look at the co owners that were in that class out West, you know you had Darnay Holmes, who started a couple of games for the New York Giants this year. You had uh Jaylon Johnson, who was probably the best corner in that class in terms of what he did a U T. I C. He was either late first round or early second rounder by the Bears. You know, you also had Diamere lean Or at Oregon that same class, so there were some really good dvs. Jeff Kudah Sean
Wade were also in that class. So there's a lot of good natural vs. A lot of good West Coast TVs. And I remember this thing with Elijah Molden is it was always a three team race in his recruitment. It was Stanford, Washington, and Oregon, and obviously Oregon had all the family ties. Stanford again, just like with Jale and Philip, if you look at that Stanford class, they really reaped the benefits of that twenty sixteen rose Bow win over Iowa.
And I remember going to the.
Game the night before the Oregon Washington game when that week Elijah had been admitted into Stanford and Jimmy Lake was at the Wash or at the the West Wind Tiger game. And about a week or two later, I think Elijah committed to Washington and it was kind of a surprise. It was like, if he doesn't go to Oregon, he's going to stamfyf doesn't go to Stampley, He's going to Oregon. And he picked Washington ended up really being h you know, probably their defensive NDP in the last
couple of years. And a guy that I think you could sneak into the second round. It's not higher, but was just a phenomenal player and a player that was a good really I would say, a great high school player, a good prospect who just made himself that much better of a player. And again, one of the great families that you'll ever meet. I think he's one of eight kids and just the most tight knit close to the family,
just wonderful people. And then you watch Elijah Mobile on the field, and I mean, the kid is out there just destroying people, and he really just outplays kind of what his body does because he's just he works his ass off. As a lack of a better term about to say that.
Governed by the FCC here, Brandon, even if it's not true, you can say it. Final question, as I look up and down the draft board, here there are two notable cornerbacks, Patrick Sirtan Santi Samuel. I'm not so much asking a question as I am for advice. I remember both of their fathers playing in the NFL, Brandon, and I wonder, in your particular line of work, how you avoid just this perennial feeling that we're really getting old seeing these names out there the intense march of time.
Yeah, it's you know, especially when these guys that are the dads are younger than I am. You know, it's one thing that there are guys that were.
Like my age, when these dads.
Are a couple of years you know, the man, I'm like, wait, you know, wasn't I watching Antline Winfield playing college when I was in college and now I'm watching his son Fred Taylor and I were the same graduating year, and I think, I tell then, well, I'm my oldest and the junior in high school, you know, than Taylor I think was eight nine classes ago. Ray Lewis is another
one that was my age. I run into that all the time now, Like there's guys I'm sing, how in the world do you have a college aged kid or you know, a recruit or a kid that is going to be in the NFL like I saw were you just playing like two weeks ago? And it's just it's fascinating. But again that that's something that you know, it speaks to kind of a larger thing too. One thing that I would say we sometimes get lulled into It's not
so much that we're old. It's sometimes like, oh, well, he's the offspring of so and so he's going to be really good. And I've said, I've told this story for years and it's one of the biggest bells that I've ever taken. And I remember saying on a local radio stition on signing day, I'm really going to regret naming Nick, making Nick Montana a four star and making Sean mann In a three star. I probably should have put those two.
But I did.
And boy, the next four years become prophetic to me. As Sean Mannin threw for over ten thousand yards in Fontana. Last we saw with throwing like eighty seven pick sixes for Tulane, you know, and we're seeing it now too. Where you've got a lot of legacies, a lot of guys that are the son of former NFL players, some are former NFL stars, and you think they're going to be every bit as good as their dad who were stars, and maybe they're just average football players. They're just good,
solid football players, not the elite. Then you have the occasional kids where like a Patrick Sustent, where the younger one might be better than dad, you know, where there are cases where the youngster is even better.
The ultimate backup is better than the starter.
Exactly exactly.
And so that's why it's so important to ignore the name and really just dive into who the player is and what kind of player he is and making sure that's what you're evaluating on, rather than just because they have the elite bloodline.
And I think, you know.
Maggie Johnston and Michael Jordan's kids probably weren't that great and now we're you know, thank god, I don't have to do basketball rankings, and I'm going to evaluate Browny James over the next couple of years because I can only imagine how polarizing that's going to be.
But hey, Archie Manning, we.
Got the nephew and the son of a Manning and the grandson of the Manning, and we got three years of m So we'll see if he's you know, Eli or Peyton, or if he's you know, Nick Montana or Jack Olway. With all due respect to Nick Montana and Jack Olway.
So I think, ty, if what I'm hearing, if there's subtext to what Brandon is saying, is if you would like to have superstar athletes for children. It's cool if you at one point were, but maybe try to convince a strong athletic woman to have children.
That's true.
Yeah, if that's I mean, isn't Steph Curry's mom was like a terrific athlete?
Right?
Does it? It helps if not? Is the most important thing.
He was in a who was our guy at LSU a couple of years ago whose mom was a OBJ I should know that.
Yeah, world class sprinter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, sometimes moms the one carrying all the athleticism and dad's just carrying the last name, or you know, it's the dad's Like most dads, they're taking all the credit in the world when the reality is mom really did a good job of doing everything. That's right.
It works, all right.
It's a good way to go out, ty, good way to go out.
Brandon Hoffman check him out, National recruiting editor for twenty four to seven Sports. Also the founder and executive director of the Avery Huffman DIPG Foundation. Go and check that out at every strong DIPG. Longtime friend, Brandon, always great to have you on. We'll talk soon, all.
Right, thanks. Bella has always enjoyed talking Shot down memory lane.
All right, Daniel, that is Brandon Huffman again, longtime friend of the show. Always gracious with this time. You texted him mere minutes before he came on the air with us, so always want to come on and share his insight. And we're glad he did.
The best, the absolute best.
And I will say this, and I was thinking about this a couple of days ago as I was reading a bunch of draft stuff, just because I'm always curious. It's not what we do. We are not draft analysts, we are not NFL people, but there's a certain amount of curiosity I'm sure with college football fans about how the NFL values certain players and guys that we've been fans of for a long time where they're going to go in the draft. But the draft broadcast itself is fascinating, oh,
because you think about love it the number. Yeah, and last year's was particularly fascinating because it was all remote, but just in terms of the number of clips that have to be available at any given moment based on who is drafted. And you know, every analyst has to have thorough opinions and evaluations and projections for every guy that's taken and how do they fit in with the team, What were they like in college? What do they you know,
do they change position? Like every single minute detail has to be covered and covered quickly. So I think what we need to do is come up with some sort of fantasy things for the draft that we just love.
We'll come up with.
The fantasy things for the draft, and you can draft your own squad of like, you know, five things depending on you know, when they happen, how they happen. Something I love that is absolutely going to make its way in there is the Endomicansu played soccer memorial clip where it's a it's a it's a clearly very old clip of a prospect playing another sport athleticism absolutely to show his athleticism. Or remember there was a I think he
was a nose tackle I forget his name. His name escapes me at Wisconsin who was there was like a viral clip of him doing a backflip on the.
Beach like that.
The non highlight video roles that happened during the draft, not a lot of like improv guys, here's here's this nose tackle in an improv class, but playing another sport or doing something freakishly athletic. I do live for that, because then it kind of throws off the host and analysts saying like, oh, I mean that's pretty cool. It throws them off a little bit in their talking points. So any any clip of you know, a shot put
or track and field or swimming or basketball. You know, oh, a big one is an offensive lineman dunking, dunking.
Yeah, they got the ups. They love that.
Yeah. The other one, the other flip side of that, is the Miles Garrett Honorary Concert Pianist Award, where.
Oh, I mean, I think that's Joey Harrington time.
Well, right, whoever it is, you've always got, like the guy who can speak six languages, or somebody who's really good at chess, or you know John Erschall.
They make the guys fluent in other languages, say something about like welcome to the twenty twenty one NFL draft.
In you know, Farcia or Mandarin. Always good.
Well, we'll get to that. We appreciate everyone stopping on. I none more so though, than Brandon Huffman, our guest of honor on this Yere's show. Solid Verbal dot Com is the website going out there yellow boxes where you can put your email address. We'll start sending emails as we get a little bit closer to the year, keep you up to date with what's going on. Also, verballers dot com is a Patreon where we're posting some fun
bonus stuff here throughout the offseason. Dan so I got tame for that guy there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein, for myself, Tie hillde Brand. Thank you so much for downloading, for listening, for supporting. We will touch base again on Thursday. In the meantime, stay solid, peace,