Heyverballers. If you haven't joined stitch your Premium yet, how's the perfect time. Stitcher Premium gets you completely add free episodes of hundreds of shows like Comedy Bang Bang WTF with Mark Maron How Did This Get Made? In so many more. You can get twenty one thousand hours of exclusive content and new exclusive originals like Marvel's Wolverine, Isa Ray's Fruit launching every week for stit your Premium members only. If you love podcasts, you are missing out when you
listen to ad free episodes and stitch your Premium. Best of all, your favorite podcasters get paid help support your favorite shows. Join stitch your Premium today for a free month of listening. You can go to Stitchrpremium dot com and use the promo codeverbal that's sti t ch e r premium dot com. Use the promo code verbal Welcome to the solid verbal. I'm that for me, I'm a man, I'm forty.
I've heard so many players say, well, I want to be happy. You want to be happy for day?
Edith State is that whoom whoom?
And then and Tye, welcome back to the Soliburbo boys and girls. My name is ty hilde Rand joining me as always over there in New York City.
My good friend, the man with the plan.
Uh don't know what else I can call him, but Dan Rubertstein, sir, how are you?
I'm good?
I got my quarter mile time to an all time twenty eighteen low today?
Whoa and great? Do you live your life a quarter mile at a time?
I wouldn't phrase it any other way? Yes, of course, do ty?
What are we down to now? Uh? Today? Was I hit one thirty three? One thirty three? Right?
So it's six low six mile?
Okay?
Are you look like a madman? Just sprint all out sprinting in the middle of New York? But I feel good about it?
Are you training for something specific like a relay RaSE of some sort? No, what is not an ambition here?
My ambition is basically, I get very bored running, even though I like listening to podcasts when I run, and I've been reading more and more that distance running it's just not that great for your joints and for anything. And I'm not getting younger.
Tie. I hope that's not a misnomer.
And I've also read that you know, high interval and sprint and really electric workouts tie for the Matab and I'm a slave for the Matab tie. Sure everybody knows that about me. So I've been mixing in a lot more sprints and the only way I can really get into it is if I am competing with myself and others. Really, but I'm feeling good.
So just a boy out there running at listening to hardcore history. That's exactly what I do. Okay, Well, on that note, thank you for joining us here on the podcast. Big thanks to our guest of her last week, Adam Kramer from Bleacher Report, who was so kind as to join you and to talk all sorts of college all sorts of college football things. Excuse me always to have
Adam on. I'm sad I missed it, but as people who listen to this show are well aware, I am still very much in the process of moving and getting myself all sorted out. So I thought I had everything in place before recording last week, but that was not the case. So thank you to you, Thank you to Adam for pinch hitting for me in my absence. But I'm back. I am back back, baby.
We hit over under Win total stuff we talked about. He did a story on the it's sort of the tongue of a loa family and sort of just focusing on Talia to his younger brother who's still in high school at writing pop high school prospect.
He's the writing, he is the righty correct okay.
And then we talked to summer things, which we I missed you because you always have really good, if not controversial, if not completely incorrect opinions about broad life things. Sure, whereas I think I was mostly in agreement with Adam. There wasn't tension. He just had very good opinions about summer.
Well, we're excited about tonight's show. We actually have a cool little concept here that we're going to trot out momentarily. But of course, if you're a new listener, we're going to be here all off season long talking college football things and life things whatever we can talk about basically until we get to like August, when it comes time to actually start talking about teams and previews and whatnot. But yes, as always, you can find us at iTunes
dot com, Solid Verbal. We also have a Facebook, a Twitter, and Instagram. They started a subreddit. Some of our most ardent supporters out at reddit dot com, slash r slash Solid Verbal. We've got a new website that is very much in the pipeline and looking awesome thanks to our friends over at Superboss. We'll be talking much more about
that in the coming days and weeks. We've got shirts and mugs and hats and all sorts of fun merchandise on the way as well that we can get out to you, we promise in time for the start of the season, and we're going to keep updating that with new merch all throughout the calendar year. So exciting times ahead here on the Verbal. And that's all to say that we've got a live show coming up, Yes I can.
Should we just say the date even though we're not confirmed still, well, just so people know.
I mean, I guess why not?
All right, it's going to be Saturday, August eleventh, Yes, so early to mid August, now that we've said it, ty one way or another. We might just have a gathering in a park.
I was gonna say, this could be on the shores of Lake Michigan. If we're unable to find the a proper venue. We're very much getting help, yes, trying to find that. BI professionals BI professionals, Right, We're looking into all sorts of options for venues. So the planning process is well underway. It's just that that's going to be the date. We had a couple of people write in and ask, and I think we both feel bad about keeping people on the hook any longer than we have to.
Right, people are booking flights or cards or just figuring out weekend plans for the summer. It seems right, we are very much banking on August the eleventh, So yes, let us know if you'll be in town, either for the show or for the after party, which would be somewhere too much easier to book a wedding venue in Chicago for me, yes, than to find a place that will house about three hundred people and has some food and drink and maybe a little stage and some audio equipment.
Did in Chicago's a major city, live performance city, but it's been tricky finding We're trying to goldilocks this time. We're trying to get one that's just right.
So it's either going to be at a sports bar or Jim Delaney's house. We'll let you know. Does he live in Chicago. I guess he probably does live in Chicago. Maybe Dave Revsen will let us have it, either Dave Revsen or Mike Hall.
I know Adam Mamin doesn't have a house. He has an apartment, so that's probably not conducive. But they probably have homes, possibly with backyards. You know what, my in laws if you want to come to the suburbs. Yeah, my in laws have a robust backyard.
I'm thinking flash mob, but podcast a flash pod somewhere on Michigan Avenue also an option.
The Northwestern facility is quite nice, but we don't want to do Evanston. Evanston's cool, but we don't.
Come on.
We got to get in the city anyway.
There you go, August, Yes, in Chicago. We're excited. It's going to be awesome. Fantasy Things Draft twenty eighteen. What's cool stuff? Head? All right, what is the concept? This was actually your idea as now of our preface. So many of our great ideas on this podcast come from you. What is the concept this evening?
It's a very cute way of playing Devil's Advocate in June. So this is my precursor, my warning. We don't want bad things. We're not rooting for bad things. We want everybody to succeed, even though mathematically that's not possible. But we're just here to ask some questions, ty, and today's
main question is are we sure? And we have a number of college football topics I think as it relates to this season or just broader, but it has to do it this season, like, for instance, are we sure that Dan is a vital part to the solid verbal I don't know, right, I don't honestly know, but we're going to be asking these questions. Are we sure that this piece of conventional wisdom is something that should and has earned the right to be conventional wisdom.
So if I said to you, are we sure that there are only eighteen McCaffrey brothers.
Yeah, I am fully prepared for there to be secret McCaffrey's. Also, that would be a very good name for a fantasy or not a fantasy, like a pickam Pool entry or a bullpick McCaffrey's. Secret McCaffrey's. There is another Fanta baseball team whatever.
Luke did I see it's Luke McCaffrey.
Yeah, there's a fourth McCaffrey that will play college football FBS level, Power five level. I think we had Max at Duke Christian at Stanford, Dylan at Michigan, and now Luke at Nebraska.
Yeah, Nebraska, Eddie McCaffrey, very fertile, very fertile.
Unbelievable, and apparently the credit all should go to the mother. She is apparently a terrific athlete in her own right.
Yeah, okay, well cool. So basically we are challenging conventional wisdom here? Are we sure? Blank is blank? Mm hm?
That's that's the game, okay, And we are going to posit a situation and then we're going to talk it out.
Okay, where do you want to start? Where are we going? First?
Let's start here because this is what started our conversation. Actually, we asked on Twitter and one of the one of our viewers, listeners whatever, uh followers tweeted us this exact thing, and we already had it number one.
Boo boo boo. Are we sure Shape Patterson is good? Oh? So? Are we sure?
Because a lot has been made of Shape Patterson and the drama transferring away from Ole Miss obviously at touted an extremely touted recruit going to Oxford, gets in as a true freshman, plays as a sophomore before getting injured about halfway through the season, announces his intention to transfer, quickly visits Michigan, commits to Michigan, transfers to Michigan, then gets the waiver to play immediately because of circumstances at Old Miss and why he had to transfer, And there
seems to be a sigh of relief because he is seen as savior is going way too far, but he is seen as solidifying a position that has not really been all that solid these past couple of seasons.
It seems like Michigan fans are very hopeful, to say the least about one. That's fine that Shaye Patterson could provide for them at the quarterback position, right.
Yeah, and they should be, I mean, I think because if you're not hopeful in June, why are you a college football fan?
Right? So, shape Patterson, in case you haven't listened to our show water ruling with the NCAA, claims that he was missile ed at Old Miss. Therefore his transfer request should be processed immediately. And by transfer request, I basically mean his eligibility should start right away. You should have
to sit out a year and going to Michigan. Now, Michigan's very excited about this because the quarterback spot has been a bit of a bugaboo for our friend Jim Barbad now Ever, since he got there, they never really had a good permanent solution at the quarterback position. So Shaye Patterson comes over from Old Miss. He's obviously got a lot of talent, form or five star recruit, did
some nice things during his time in Oxford. He comes over all of a sudden, things are looking a little bit more upbeat for Michigan at that spot.
Yes, and I will only speak for myself, but let's be clear, it's better for us if he's good. We want good quarterback play, we want good football. So we are hoping maybe it was just a situational thing with everything that was going on in Oxford. That said, I was expecting him to get noticeably better last year, even with everything swirling in Oxford, even with a pretty tough schedule. I know they had Alabama and Auburn on the road,
both on the road in consecutive weeks. They went to Cal early on, which shouldn't have been that much trouble, but seemed to have been some trouble.
He threw three picks in that game.
I went back and rewatched a number of the games from last year, and again, a lot goes into offensive success, whether it's coaches, line, skill, position players, and mind you, he had probably one of the best three receivers in college football last year in aj Brown. But I was watching shape Patterson and that's when the question struck me, Like he seems okay, and it has a couple of moments, but he's a little bit shorter, he tends to overthrow. His footwork seems like it needs I mean, no pun
intended some strides and made some mistakes. Like my guy, you lost sixty six to three. You and your team to Alabama. This is a great Alabama team. So I didn't even watch much of that game. I watched the next week against Auburn, because I think that says a lot and he'll be judged in an arbor with regards to how Michigan does against Michigan State, Penn State, Ohio State, and this year certainly Notre Dame to open up the season, and against LSU it was kind of a nightmare and
obviously was wounded. But I watched that Auburn game because he threw fifty one passes and they were down something like thirty five thirty eight to three at halftime. I forgot that it got so out of hands so quickly. It was not if I were watching that through an amazing blue tinted lens, I think I would be a bit deflated, is what I'm trying to say, Like, don't I don't know that he is just I mean, he's
going to start as he should because of it. I think their options right now are not great, so he
should slide in. But unless the offense at Michigan, which we had offensive line issues these past couple of years, I think decent running backs, you know, a couple of intriguing wide outs, I think, but in terms of what this offense has looked like creatively and consistency wise, I'm not ready to slide in Shape Patterson and say this is a major, major deal because I don't know if I'm fully seeing it right now.
I think that's fair, right, There's definitely a little bit of hopefulness on the part of Michigan fans. You know, we've often heard the expression about the backup quarterback being the most popular guy on Curtis. There's some element of that here because Shape Patterson, at least as it relates to being a Michigan football player is a great unknown. He represents I think something that could be and something that I think a lot of Michigan fans wanted the
quarterback position to be under Jim Harbaugh. He just hasn't had that breakthrough yet. Now we saw Wilton Spako elsewhere. He's going to be playing some role for you. We don't know what, And I think you're right in saying that Shape Patterson represents the best option for Jim Harbaugh at this point. We'll see what he can do. He's still fairly young.
Yeah, and it'll be his third year. He'll be a junior, a true junior.
Jim Harbaugh does have a bit of a track record for spinning gold at the quarterback position, though we haven't seen it quite yet. In Ann Arbor, Shape Patterson probably represents the most talent that he's had since since he started at Michigan. Yeah, anyway he can do.
The great news, aside from a pretty tricky schedule, is that Michigan's defense should look very good. I would assume just with the number of talented guys that have come back, how well Michigan has recruited on defense and the gold spinning part to me in college in this recent Michigan, not Stanford or San Diego or whatever. The gold spinning was probably limited to only the second half of Jake Rudock's season.
Is one for a year which was and that's.
Very good, and I would say somewhat unforeseen given Rudok's history. But the Wilton Spade earrow was largely dependent on defense. Last year was a mess because of injuries, but the defense was still there. So the good news for Shaye Patterson and for whoever ends up succeeding or quasi succeeding at quarterback, which I assume will be the case, is the defense should often enough put the offense in a good enough position that they get short feels that they
know they're playing with leads or whatever. But my confidence in shape Patterson driving the ball downfield is not super high right now.
I think I'll say this about your question. I'm not sure that he's good, but I'm sure that his floor is higher than sure. Oh yeah, yeah, we've seen at Michigan in a couple of years. And I'm also sure that the parts around him at Michigan will support him better than the parts at all. Miss A lot was on his arm down there in Oxford. I think it'll be spread out a little bit. More responsibilities will be spread out more in ann Arbor than they were in Oxford.
I'll twist it like this, Are we sure shape Patterson is good?
No? Are we?
I am sure shape Patterson is pretty good? Okay, but that may not matter given some context.
All right, let me stay on the quarterback front. We've actually got a couple other ones here on the quarterback front. But are we sure dot dot dot ru that Tua Tongueavy law law is better than Jalen Hurts? Right now? This seems to be conventional wisdom because obviously he came in. He won that overtime thriller in the College Football Playoff National Championship Game. It has been assumed in the early going here in the preseason that two was gonna be
gonna be the starter in Tuscaloosa. There's no reason to kind of back off that assumption. I think we're all kind of proceeding under that assumption. Sure, But if I may, if I just want to play Devil's advocate here for the hell of it, please, he played nine games in garbage time, or I should say eight games in garbage
time right through seventy seven passes all last season. If it weren't for the comeback victory in overtime against Georgia in the Championship, do you think we would still be having this discussion about who's going to be starting quarterback this year.
I think if not for Tua, there's a good chance
Alabama loses that game, right agreed. So in the wake of losing because of quarterback play on the biggest possible stage, I think by now, in the middle of June, plenty of people, either with Alabama allegiances or otherwise will would have talked themselves into Tua that Jalen Hurts is good for games one through Auburn or one until Auburn, onething like that, one until Auburn, and then there's just you know, like he's just like a seven inning starter and just
doesn't have this stuff to close out a game. And that's listen, Jalen Hurts had a remarkable young career. He's been incredible, right, and maybe it's a confidence issue, maybe it's been injury stuff, maybe it's you know, been the fact that and this is something too is going to be facing as well. Tua was recruited by Lane Kiffen to whatever extent, and then he had this past season was Brian Dabele, who has moved on. I think he's in Buffalo, is that right?
Yep?
Yet Buffalo, And now it'll be it's Mike Loxley who ascends from you know, he started there as a an analyst, an offensive analyst. Now they have a co offensive Cordner. I think it was the Penn State wide receivers coach Gaddis, Josh Gaddis. And then Danny Enos comes over and he takes over as a quarterbacks coach and like associate head coach whatever.
So I'm just.
Saying there are a lot of voices into his head. This is also to say he returns four out of the five offensive line well as a ridiculous backfield and has you know, Jerry Judy, DeVante Smith, whatever. But I think, what do you what is the the crux of what makes you doubt to right now?
I think that I when I see a game like this like we saw in the National Championship, I hark him back to the days of Trevor Knight at Oklahoma when they beat I guess Alabama and the Sugar Bowl remember coming out of that game, Trevor Knight was all world everything. It didn't materialize for him. He was okay, right, but it didn't materialize in quite the manner that a lot expected. Now, I'm not saying Tua is the next Trevor Knight, but I'm always a little hesitant to stake
too much on a singular performance. There's no denying that what he did in that National Championship game elevated Alabama to a point where they could win. Jalen Hurts was not giving them the answer in that game. So I think you're right. If it weren't for Tua coming in, we're probably talking about this in a different context, and it probably still goes to the same spot where Tua
is the presumed starter. But I'm always very very hesitant to just put too much on one singular performance when, let's be honest, the previous eight games, the previous fifty throws in his career were mostly in mop up due to your garbage. Most Yeah, you know, so we got to see what he can do throughout the totality of an SEC season. A lot of other big games, certainly Alabama in the SEC West is never short on those but I guess my only hesitation would be that he
doesn't quite have the experience that Jalen Hurts has. Jalen Hurts, for his part, even though he has had a couple of rough patches in the latter part of his two seasons now as quarterback, he's still been pretty good. He's still got the record.
Sure if he really does not make mistakes, doesn't make mistakes for the most part.
Also, if you really want to play Devil's advocate. The all time question here is whether or not Tua or Jalen really even matter in that offense sort of a little, I think earlier point, you know, I mean, having a better quarterback always matters, but there is so much ammo around them that it definitely matters less at Alabama than it would at a place like Notre Dame.
Well, it also doesn't matter as much when you have to score seventeen points to.
Win, sure, right right, No, across the board, across the board.
So I was so Tua is well built, which I think is nice. Even though he's at six to one, I don't know if he's above five ten and a half five eleven, maybe his you know, it's always entirely possible.
I'm wrong, it's almost assuredly the case. But TUA is not super battle tested, and in that National Championship game there was certainly throws in plays like I feel like when you sign up for TUA, you were signing up for the Tua experience for better or worse in obviously a lesser way at this point than Johnny Manziel the Johnny football experience, because that is a special talent. But here is the outstanding news. I think it's sort of a dual prong bit of outstanding news about TUA or
whoever actually ends up starting schedule is not terrible. No, especially in the first half of the season. They opened against Louisville. Do you happen to remember who Louisville's defensive coordinator is their new defense?
Oh god, they made the trade, didn't they. Well, they made the trade, but then they got rid of Peter Sermon.
Hmm yeah, b v G b V I don't make me say it. Okay, So that's pretty good. That's a pretty good way to start.
So you have Louisville.
I don't forget where they're playing. I think it's Orlando or something. Arkansas State, Ole miss on the road text say, now, it's a Mike Elco defense with talent. Yes, I think that should be by week and it's week four, somewhat intimidating. They have the rage in Cajun's Week five, they go to Arkansas. It's a John Chavis defense. I'm not super thrilled with Arkansas right now. Missoo at Tennessee at LSU in pseudo, I mean they have a bye week between them.
So it takes until that at Tennessee at LSU and then Mississippi State run late October early November until I have actual concern that a quarterback will be exposed. Whoever that quarterback is, that's pretty good.
Okay, So what I'm going to say here and then we'll move on because we've got four more of these that I think are all equally riveting. I am not sure, quite honestly, that Tua is better than Jalen Hurts, right. I do think though, because of what we've seen out of Jalen Hurts, I am sure I know what Jalen Hurts is as a quarterback, and because of that, I'm more excited about Tua. But Tua is by no means a proven commodity at this point.
What I do like about Tua that I'm not positive Jalen Hurts still possesses or does possess, and he has been quite fun to watch these past couple of years for the most part because of his dual threat ability is TUA doesn't care. Tua will go down field. I mean, I'm not even talking about that play that the Devonte Smith ridiculous, you know, throw over covered too. I'm just I look at two and I say this, this dude
is going to just gun it in. He's going to throw down field, He's going to connect, and I think he is more of a playmaker with his arm and has a fearless quality that I don't think Jalen Hurts quite possesses that. It seems like, barring some kind of fall camp melt down, I know he was sort of nicked up, had a finger issue, I think, or a
hand issue over spring. I am more intrigued by his sealing than Jalen Hurts, which is crazy, Yeah, because Jalen Hurts has done nothing but lead them to the championship game in his two seasons.
All right, where are we going next?
Here?
Your turn?
All right, let's go to Are we sure? I like, you've thrown in a couple here, but I'll go to one of mine. Are we sure that Mike Gundy is I'm gonna go positive with this. Are we sure that Mike Gundy, Oklahoma State head coach, is not a top eight ish coach and the clear best head coach in the Big twelve at this point, now that theops is couch in the Big twelve, I believe that he is. Are we sure that he is not?
Like?
Basically, are we sure that he is like a second tier national head coach? And I understand that there are people that are going to say, well, you know, he's never been to the playoff, he's never been to, you know, a huge game, and certainly in twenty eleven there's a to be made that Oklahoma State.
Should have been.
But because of his consistency, I think they've won ten games four out of the past five seasons. He consistently
develops NFL players. Oklahoma State is not in an advantageous place within their own state, let alone the conference, and certainly te Boon Pickens has poured a lot of money to that program and improved things greatly, But Oklahoma is without a doubt the headline program sure in Oklahoma, and now that Bob Stoops is gone, who was the clear answer for a very very, very long time and probably in some ways underrated as a football coach, But Mike Gundy At this point, I think there's only one other
coach with this claim. That's probably Gary Patterson in the Big twelve. At this point, I think Mike Gundy has done a better job within the context of Oklahoma State without having the Mountain West runway that Gary Patterson has had. I think Mike Gundy is three and two over the last five years against TCU Oklahoma State is mind you. I think Mike Gundy, to me is crazy underrated with what he's done there and should be in conversations with the list of college football's top tier coaches.
Wow, okay, so let's go through, first off, who the coaches are in the Big twelve to argue whether or not he's a top eight coach. I think is fair. I think you can put him in the top eight without even trying to go through all the coaches in college football. I think he's been consistent enough at a place that can be difficult to recruit to that he deserves to be in that conversation. Yea, The bigger question is is he the best in the Big twelve. So
let's go through it. Let's go through it. Matt Rule at Baylor, He's better than Matt Rule at this point, more consistent longer career. Oh yeah, yeah, accomplished. Matt Campbell for sure, better than Matt Campbell. David Beatty, I'm not even going to dignify that, right, Bill Snyder, Is he better than Bill Snyder?
What depends what you want to I'm judging over like the past five years, he's better. So I went back to twenty eleven so that we can even go back to twenty eleven. And Bill Snyder had a very good twenty twelve with Kansas State.
I think I would say right now, I think you could argue that Bill Snyder has done more with less in spots throughout his career. Sure, but Mike the contact Bill Snyder. Yes, my guddy has been so terribly consistent at Oklahoma State. Rights tough to put Snyder in front of him. So we're gonna say Gundy, Yeah, Lincoln Riley really just getting started. If he continues on his current trajectory, he's probably the answer in a couple of years.
But yeah, I mean that's entirely possible. But one season in without a roster, he recruited and assembled whatever. Yes, I'm going with Gundy.
He's better than Cliff Kingsbury. He's better than Dana Holgerson. Where it gets interesting is when you get to Tom Herman and Gary Patterson. Okay, so Tom Herman could be another guy who is eventually the answer here. Could operative word could. Hasn't done a lot yet at Texas. I think Texas is primed for big things. But that's really been the case since we started this show back in two thousand and eight.
True, you've never tossed in the good In twenty two and nine, did they make it to the LASH Championship game?
Yeah, So Tom Herman could eventually be the answer here, probably isn't yet, doesn't have a long enough track record. Talk to me about Gary Patterson though, Sure, what do you want to know Mike Gundy versus Gary Patterson.
So the case is Gary Patterson's recent lows have been lower. Gary Patterson was able to assemble a roster, and this is credit to Gary Patterson. This is not a knock, but it's something that Mike Gundy didn't have He was able to assemble a roster and build systems in the Mountain West, right not, you know, with the precious of the Big twelve, and had time to sort of make that transition in a very smooth, clean way, whereas Mike Gundy was sort of thrust into this role unless Miles left.
So I'm going to give him a slight advantage in that even down seasons, Oklahoma State is making bowl games. Now there is one clear knock I think on Mike Gundy, and in his resume, I don't believe he's won a game in Norman. I want to say he's two and twelve against Oklahoma And if we're going to espouse the theory that college football is most fun when you're just hoping your team wins regular season games, beats more rivals than nots, and whatever happens with the playoff and with
bowls happens. But those are the most important things. It's hard to say he is a top tier coach when he's two and twelve against Arrival. That is where I will definitely concede ground. He's very consistent. So he's been at Oklahoma State now twelve seasons. H He only had one losing season, his first, when he went four and seven. But beyond that, he's had double digit wins six times. There are a lot of seven wins seasons in there, and by a lot, I guess I only mean three.
He's won nine games a couple times, eight games once. He's been very consistent, and that's really all you can ask as a head football coach of a major college institution to be that consistent when sorry, Oklahoma State, you are sort of second fiddle to Oklahoma, sort of second fiddle to Texas in the Big twelve in terms of prominence. Sure, but to be that consistent is certainly saying something I say.
As of now, you're probably right, Okay, almost definitely the best coach in the Big twelve and out recruited by at least three schools for sure.
For sure. Now, the more I think about this, I don't want to just gloss over the top eight part of your question. Okay, top eight, he's borderline top eight, borderline top eight. You got a lot of coaching, ammo, in the sec you got it. Do you think coach?
Do you think Jim Harbaugh is a better coach at Michigan right now than Mike Gundy at Oklahoma State. No, I don't think so.
No, but top eight, top eight's pushing it. He's a bubble team if you're cut off his top eight. A lot of coaching AMO in the SEC, a lot of coaching AMO in the Big ten, a lot of coaching AMMO in the PAC twelve, even though we're going to talk about the Pac twelve and a more negative connotation in a little bit. But top bights, top bits pushing it. He's a bubble team in that regard. Okay, fair enough, change my mind mid mid question here, Dan, Okay, I
think he's a threat, a top eight threat. Fair let's stay in the Big twelve here for this next question. Another one.
Actually, I've got the tweet deck up and we had a gentleman by the name of Justin Hm who wanted to talk about Kyler Murray.
I'm going to put this spin on it. Okay, are we sure that Kyler Murray is worth all the emotional energy for Oklahoma fans? Wow?
What a complicated way of thinking about it.
Okay, college football is nothing if not an emotional game. Dan, That's why I've trace it the way I do So here's where we're at. Okay, Oklahoma fans were incredibly fortunate to have Baker Mayfield as their quarterback for the last couple of years. Baker won the Heisman, Baker took them to New Heights, obviously made the playoff, just an electric player, an incredible offense last season in Norman, record setting in many regards. Yeah, of course, so that was all in
Lincoln Riley's first year. And all the while, they've had this guy, Kyler Murray, who came over from Texas A and M when that situation went boom. He's been the backup. He's been the backup and waiting. Now he kind of gets his chance to step into the limelight. He's a smaller guy than Baker Mayfield. He's listed at like five eleven one point eighty eight, one ninety somewhere in that regard. Baker Mayfield wasn't your prototypical NFL starting quarterback mold either,
But Kyler is is smaller. He's smaller, might be more gifted as a runner, remains to be seen how gifted he is as a thrower in comparison to Baker Mayfield. But nonetheless, he's got a lot of talent, and there's great reason to be excited. The other subplot is that Kyler Murray was just drafted ninth overall by the Oakland A's and the Major League Baseball Draft. Today he signed a deal with the A's. He's going to get five million dollars and get this the right to play football,
but only this season for Oklahoma. Yeah, only this season. So he's basically a one and done, which is a crazy risk by the A's. But when you layer the baseball on top of the fact that we still got a limited amount of data on this kid as a football player, he's certainly not going to grow with the Oklahoma program. He's probably an injury risk given his smaller stature. If I'm an Oklahoma fan, Dan, it almost feels like
a publicity stunt. I know it isn't, but I would just be very skeptical that this whole thing is going to work.
All fair and was extraordinary in high school and inconsistent but made some play as a tex A and m while he was there briefly. I think what I think, there's an assumption that because of the combination of Kyler Murray's talent, his undeniable talent, the talent around him on Oklahoma's offense, the continuity of coaches now with Lincoln Riley and the coaches around Lincoln Riley, and Lincoln Riley's brain, coupled with Kyler Murray's ability that things are just going
to continue apace in Norman. What I think that does unintentionally that line of thinking is it says Baker Mayfield was like a system guy at there's a little bit of that, and I think it devalues and sort of under like under rates or whatever, or dismisses almost just how ridiculous Baker Mayfield was. Like, Lincoln Riley can come up with these plays, and he certainly did, and he can his play calling can be timely. Baker Mayfield throws a hell of a ball. Baker Mayfield did not back
down from any throws, from any plays. Baker Mayfield is a generational talent for Oklahoma, as strange as it is to say, he was just mind bogglingly efficient. And so I think the line of thinking is, while somebody as talented as Kyler Murray can surely keep that going in Norman. And I don't know if that's the case, And I
don't know if it's because he's slight of build. I would be a little bit more worried about how things transpired when it got rough at texts A and M with his offensive coaches and you know, reportedly with his dad and coaches. That to me, and certainly Baker Mayfield has you know, there are stories about Baker Mayfield's dad, sure or not, but that to me is a little
bit more worrisome from Afar. Granted that we are just penciling in the empire to continue when what Baker Mayfield did is essentially impossible.
Man, it is just tough when you know going in that any success you have at quarterback is going to be short lived. You know, like I guess maybe you treat it like a grad transfer. We're all kind of conditioned for that. Yeah, you just know they're going to be fans who demand total commitment to the team, you know, pick one or the other.
It's tough to be that kind of pragmat at like
twenty twenty one. No, it's it's impossible when you know, play quarterback for Oklahoma, play minor league baseball and hope because I think everybody looks at him baseball wise, and I will never pretend to be some kind of baseball scout, but they look at him as you know, unbelievable athleticism and bat speed is off the charts, and you know, has taken huge strides, but still green, still a project, whereas with football there is I think he's more of
a known quantity. I don't It doesn't appear that like he is going to be a first or second round NFL player, But you know who knows. It's tough though, to say, forego the glory of playing quarterback at Oklahoma versus playing you know what, does he play? Second base? Shortstop?
Feel he's a center fielder.
Oh, he's a center fielder. Okay, so there is some glory in center field, you know, picking off home runs over the wall, whatever. But to play baseball and to look at baseball as a a moment of glory, I think it's tougher. That's you know, that's my dumb opinion. We're in our football podcast.
We're in our thirties. Yes, that's true, and have never achieved any height such as this on the athletic stage.
Ty you missed. It's a minute thirty three quarter mile, Tye. It's a minute thirty three, which might not sound fast to anybody listening, and that's because it's not so.
Yeah, Dan, this is a weird one.
If you're an Oklahoma fan, I think you treat it like a grad transfer.
I think you enjoy the ride. You hope, for Kyler's sake that doesn't blow a knee. But either way, congrats to him on getting drafted, because that's really awesome. And you know, let's just see how this all goes. Two more here, Yeah, should we just combine them? Sure, let's do it because we're running short on time. So we've got two. We've got two packed twelve related questions.
The questions a manned pack twelve con.
The question that I wanted to ask is is higher level? And it was are we sure that there is someone actually running the PAC twelve conference, someone actually creating a long term strategy for the PAC twelve conference?
Right?
Yours was more micro in the sense you asked, are we sure that the universally lauded PAC twelve South hires not her Edwards. We're going to exclude him from this equation, but might be successful. But yeah, are we sure that Chip Kelly and Kevin someone are the home run highers that we've been led to believe, right. So I'll answer that second question by saying that I am not at all convinced that Kevin Someone's a home run higher for many of the reasons that I have mentioned over the
last couple months here on the podcast. He feels a lot to me like the previous guy, like rich Rodriguez. There's a lot of overlap there, and because of that, I don't feel like he gives them a whole lot more than where they were at previously. So unless you've got a different definition of home run higher, I think he's a capable replacement, and I think a change of scenery, both for him and maybe for Rich Rod is a good thing for them Professionally. I think it'll work out
just fine for Arizona. But if they end up looking exactly the way that they looked in twenty seventeen, I will not at all be surprised. For UCLA, Chip Kelly's a home run. He can go five and seven and he's still a home run. He brings more excitement to that program than anyone else they could have possibly hired. If you're UCLA, you absolutely have to take a chance and see what Chip Kelly can bring can bring the Westwood.
So I'm fine. Sure, I'm fine with labeling him as a home run, but not Kevin someone.
So let's do you want to start with the macro the big picture?
Sure you can go ahead. All right.
So is somebody running the PAC twelve maybe?
Yes? Is really so? I have been.
I'm a big proponent of swings and that's another that's another baseball.
Term, swings. Okay, go on.
So the PAC twelve has been rightly criticized for the way it's media deal has unfolded. They decided to keep one hundred percent of the network, and the PAC twelve network hasn't gotten the type of distribution I think that they were hoping it would in some form with you know, direct TV and digital means and whatever. You know, a lot of a lot of complaints about bigger games starting, and by complaints, I'm sort of separating it from myself.
It's me. It's me complaining. It's well, so, okay, here here's what this means. What this means that what people might read about you can't get the PAC twelve network on direct TV? Correct, you still can't get it on DirecTV. They've had the network, don't believe you.
Can get it on like a Roku or an Apple TV as a standalone you can get at it, you know via you know whatever service, YouTube or Hulu or something that like that.
Correct, right, You're basically you're limited and it's still is stuck in a lot of craws that you can't get it on direct TV. There's a lot of finger pointing
as to why that's the case. The conventional wisdom, and the one that seems to make the most sense to me, is that the PAC twelve network deployed this strategy where they were going to go out to individual cable providers, they were going to cut deals, and then by proxy, they were going to make it almost such that DirecTV had to pick them up, that they had no choice. It was everywhere else DirecTV would be missing out if
they didn't. That strategy has not materialized in the way that I think the PAC twelve had envisioned, and so it comes across as a gross miscalculation.
Sure, And so the miscalculation specifically is that instead of partnering with an existing network in the way that the Big ten and SEC and now AC, I think that
launches next year twenty nineteen ThEC network. The ESPN with ESPN, yeah, is that they are foregoing leverage to say, you know, ESPN suddenly has you know, if ESPN has the Pack twelve network, they can say okay, unless you accept the PAC twelve network as part of a standard dealer, as part of this kind of tier direct TV, you know, we're not sure if we can do this for you
or that for you. You know, obviously everybody is going to need ESPN that is a sports fan that has DirectTV, which is a company that directly tries to appeal to sports fans with their NFL Sunday ticket package and whatever, and it's a national satellite package whatever. I'm saying whatever a lot because I'm trying to get past my frustration with this. The PAC twelve though, it took a swing, it tried to do something new, it tried to get attention.
It did get attention, It tried to take chances, and I am all for this, but you need to have a backup and things don't go as you know, maybe it's ESPN owns a third of it, or Fox owns a third of it, maybe it's you keep two thirds of it, whatever, so you retain a lot of creative control and distribution control or whatever. But so I appreciate that. I appreciate going out on a limb to do something new, but no backup plan and the fact that and I know people are going to point to the Bowl record
last year that's super embarrassing. Well that's it's not it's not meaningful, but it's very public, which there is a you know, I think there is a gray area between those two things. So I am I am positive the PAC twelve will be fine because the PAC twelve was never going to be the SEC or the Big ten
or even the ACC in terms of viewer interests. They just need to do a better deal of a better job of figuring out how to get good coaches out West, which I think is a challenge on the way up, and putting their games in whether it's you know, the Friday night Thursday night thing sucks, but if you scare around it makes your teams have buys and everything like that.
It works.
You need to get your team's attention. You need to market these games, and especially when you have a ranked Stanford against a ranked UCLA, a ranked organ against a ranked Washington, a ranked USC against a ranked ASU, you need to do a better job of not just putting it at ten forty five Eastern on a Thursday. That can never ever happen. There needs to be outs to the scheduling.
Let me let me ask you this. I'll follow this up. Okay, Yeah, there's no denying because of the time zone issue that the PAC twelve is put at a disadvantage, that is a built in disadvantage.
And it's it's smaller alumni bases.
A smaller alumni bases. There are a couple things working, a couple of headwinds there working against the PAC twelve. Do you feel like their inability to maybe grow the brand is due to leadership or do more to logistical issues things that are beyond their control, like we've referenced here.
So it's I mean, it's always going to be column A, columnbe column C. I think the thing that's probably hurt the PAC twelve the most is that on the biggest stages, and I'm not talking about the Holiday Bowl or something like that. I'm talking USC, Alabama, Oregon, LSU at the beginning of the season, Oregon fading the back half of the Mark Helfridge era, Washington being really good, but difficult to market, I would say, is that fair?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah.
Style of play is just very efficient to nothing, you know too electric UCLA being down as long as they have, the Arizona schools never really breaking through. I would say realignment hasn't been the best for the Pac twelve. That's a whole other thing. Ty if we could add, like a bonus question, are we sure realignment has been exciting for college football?
Totally a totally different question, but sure.
But for the Pac twelve specific, Colorado and Utah have not driven national or even huge regional interest. So I think it's a combination of all of these things. The quickest way for the Pac twelve to see an uptick in attention and ratings, and you know, how to market themselves. You've got to win big games on big stages and make people aware of your brand as something impressive and worth watching. In Oregon did a good job of that, USC did a phenomenal job of that for about six, seven,
eight years. But beyond that, the PAC twelve's margin for error when it comes to attention and viability is so much thinner than everybody else's in terms of Power five conference.
I would agree with that and I think because of that, you need to come up with, as you put it, a backup plan where you basically just flood the market. You know, they've got all sorts of Silicon Valley tie in as being where they are. Put your games on YouTube. I understand that might not be profitable, but find a way to do it. Just get it out there so
that people have something to watch. I think if you take another chance, bet on where we're headed as media consumers, bet on streaming, bet on cool things that maybe aren't being tried elsewhere, Just to try and position yourself as a conference as a forward leaning thing.
Do you watch YouTube on your TV? Not talking YouTube TV, which I know you have, right, I'm talking specifically, will you watch like hot ones or whatever on your TV?
Generally? Know? I do?
Okay every day? Okay, I think things are going there more and more. I just got a new TV, right.
I just got a new TV. I don't think because I don't watch YouTube, I don't think that's a representative sample. I think it's getting easier to stream that kind of stuff, and at a minimum, people are way more comfortable with it now than they were three years ago. It is the direction that things are headed. So if you're the PAC twelve, really, if you're anybody to enable that kind of distribution, I think works in your favor. I don't know why, how do you like YouTube TV? But I
love it. I love it. I could be done a season with it. Yet, yeah I did a season with it last year.
You did it last year? Quality would like that. There was no like ground grading of I could be there.
I could be there, chief evangelist for the problem.
What was the lag time between what you saw on your screen and what you saw on Twitter?
A little difficult, A little difficult about I found that to be the case. I had Sling TV for a season. It was the same about fifteen seconds. But that's not terrible in general. In general, and this is no disrespect to our friends on Twitter. It doesn't add as much to the experience as I think people on Twitter would love to believe. Sure, that's fair. You just can't. You can't watch Twitter simultaneous to again, yeah the problem.
Yeah, I tend to because I like seeing thing that it's not about reacting. At the same time, it's like, oh, look at this ridiculous flip into the end zone from Marshall UCF You know, I like having Twitter open so I can sort of scan across, whether for visual things or injuries or whatever.
It's a really good news feed.
So all of a sudden, like if everybody's watching Oklahoma Texas and everybody starts screaming about, you know, a ridiculous puna Ford pick six or something like that, that it's kind of a bummer, not a not a deterrence, but kind of a bummer.
It is kind of a bummer. It's going to require a bit of a behavior change, but I think I already adapted to it. The National Championship being a good example. Just close the laptop for a little bit, watch broadcast. Really take it in. Don't be distracted by what's going on in the computer monitor or the phone of the iPad.
Like some kind of human being tied up.
Yep, you know it.
Get back to where we started from, all right. So that that that's the PAC twelve. So I guess our conclusion here is that, yes, someone's running it. Were sketchy on the backup plan, and at least me and I'm sure you would like to see them come up with something more of a forward leaning strategy. Yeah, I mean, I don't think the TV deals are up anytime soon, so I don't know how exactly they can pivot.
I know they just hired somebody.
They I saw a short interview I think it was with John Wilner from the San Jose Mercury News. They hired somebody to sort of take over content, and a lot of people feel very good about that. I don't know it came from the like the Oprah network, the owned network, I don't know. They're on Direct TV, I think, so hopefully that's a worthwhile hire. As for the micro.
Tie, yeah, let's talk about it. And also we're.
Selling micro ties in the merch store right As for the micro the reason why I'm asking the question, you know, our Chip Kelly and Kevin someone the you know, these lauded home run hires that it appears that they are the reason I ask we're not getting them choosing to be where they are. Chip Kelly would choose to be in the NFL, Kevin Someone is. It's certainly a step down from texts A and M to Arizona. And I know a lot of people were speculating that he was
going to and should have taken a year off. I know people were, you know, there were reports of him interviewing with bigger jobs than Arizona. So there is a sense to me that these two coaches I obviously identify and it's a huge part of their entire identity as
being major football coaches. But I don't know that it's necessarily a winning formula that they are going to places that will hire them, right, Okay, not the other way, you know what I'm saying, Like any country club that's willing to make me a member isn't worth you know that kind of like old grouchow marks thing that this is. You know, Chip Kelly at UCLA is a different phase
Chip Kelly than Oregon chip Kelly. And I'm hoping that's not the case because I've loved watching his offenses with a great passion and hope I can still watch them. And Kevin Somelan, if he had his brothers, would be at a bigger place than Arizona. And I think the this is me being bitter about something. I why couldn't
they hire ken Neomadolola. I am still bitter because I really think that Arizona cave to short term thinking and these are both basketball schools that need to think about things in a different way, and Arizona just didn't.
They did. It's the exactly the same. It's the same thing. That's that's why I'm a little blase on it. I like Kevin someone and I like rich Rot. I just don't know if replacing one with the other is going to move your program forward in any real way. The Chip Kelly thing, I'll just come back to what I said earlier. Chip Kelly is a home run higher for that program, I hope. So he's a home run higher.
He's a home run higher because he injects he infuses an excitement into that football program that we haven't seen in a long time. Maybe ever. So who knows if it goes busts. Who knows if he is still at UCLA in another five years. But I think the short term, for the short term, to get him to get a name like that and what he represents on the college level is very exciting. So I don't see how you could look at that any other way.
The big thing is does he view himself now because he's been sort of forced to into it the same way that Nick Saban looks at himself, although he did things voluntarily. You know what, what I do and how I operate, and the type of control I like to have over a program perhaps works better with eighteen to twenty two year olds than NFL players. H R Has Chip Kelly made peace with that possibility. Probably, I don't know. Probably not, Okay, So I think that's important. Probably not.
I think that's a tough realization to come to. And if you're a competitive guy, if you've been at the highest levels of the game, it's tough to sort of force yourself back into that old box. But he's he's
a very smart dude. And obviously stories have come out after his time in the NFL, players either anonymously or on the record, of sad like you tried to do this, He tried to do that, He tried, you know, wanted us to pee every fourteen minutes, and you know was involved in this and then tried to become a GM. And there is a good chance that that type of control, like having those types of fingerprints on a program or a team, he probably realizes that that way of coaching
is better off in college than in the NFL. And people talked about that with Jim Harbaugh too, that he wear people down, that sometimes it's just more difficult to only worry about coaching than it is to fully immerse yourself in the infrastructure of basically a small company. No, that's my doubts. That's my doubt is that Chip Kelly has not made peace with that yet.
Fair enough. Well, there you go. So we covered about five and a half big tough tracks here. Covered a couple quarterback situations Shaye Patterson Tua and Jalen Hurts down at Alabama, as well as Kyler Murray and what he brings to the table now for Oklahoma. Also talked about Mike Gundy on the coaching front, and then close it out with the PAC twelve. That sounds all that sounds like what we did absolutely So on that note, we
made kind of an announcement here, an impromptu announcement. The live show in Chicago will be on August the eleventh. Stay tuned for details on where. We actually don't knowwhere yet, so as soon as we find out that information will be sure to let you know. But keep in mind and at some point in the next couple months, we'll
be putting tickets up for sale. We're also going to be putting shirts and some other merchandise up for sale here, Yes, in short order, as part of our new store experience, which we'll then usher in our new website experience, which should hopefully give all of our listeners in the verbalerhood an easier way to access all the stuff that they care about on the podcast.
You've covered a tie two months from now, hopefully I see you before then.
We will for sure. We've got other fun shows that are that are foot. We're ready starting to plan them out. I'm excited about the one for next week.
Oh man, next week's gonna be a good one. Controversial, I feel.
Like controversial, but I think it'll be fun. Yeah, I'm excited. Anything else? Did I leave anything out?
Dan?
No, I think you hit it.
I think you, uh, you were pretty thorough with it. And next stop one thirty two, one two, I'm going to hit that one thirty two baby.
All right. We'll keep us posted yep on here, on Twitter, wherever the Verbowlers are, that's where you can find us. Don't forget to look us up on Facebook, on Twitter, on Instagram, on Reddit, on iTunes, Stitcher, Google, Spotify, tune in all the usual hotspots. Wherever you can find a fine podcast, you can find salverbal in the meantime for that guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein, for myself Ti hilden Brandt will catch you all of the week. In the meantime, stay solid, Pace,