Hey friends, we are back once again and I am so excited. We've got Dr. Andrea Trudeau with us and this is gonna be amazing. I cannot wait to hear from her, but I am jumping ahead of myself because we need to get our guest here. Andrea, why don't you take a second, tell people about who you are, where you're from. Hi everybody. So yes, my name is Andrea Trudeau. I'm a no-shush librarian who works in a middle school just north of Chicago. This is my 27th year working in that school.
You know, I a teaching assistant in the computer lab, a long time classroom teacher, and this is now my 10th year in the library and it is the best job ever. I cannot agree more man 27 years that is impressive. I tell you I just hit my 25 year mark and nobody's like my god That's amazing 27 you got bury me leave me in the dust.
I love it So you were 10 years in the library, which means that for 16 years before 17 years before that you weren't in the library So how did you end up getting into the library? It was never anything I anticipated. I was in the middle of my career and just sort of like itching for a change, but I wasn't quite sure what that was going to look like.
And I had, I'd been working with an incredible librarian who retired, this woman, Karen Davis, and as an eighth grade ELA teacher, I brought my students down for a book talk one afternoon and she's book talking a bunch of books. And it was like the answer fell from the sky. Hahaha. had just, so in Illinois we put in retirement years in advance. So we do it four years in advance in our district. And so she had, I know, right?
So she had just put in and I'm sitting there listening to her and I'm like, this would be amazing. I want to do this. So I realized I had four years to go back and in Illinois, I can go back and get an endorsement on my teaching certificate. So I took 27 master level hours. and then decided to do it. And I basically like walked right into this job because I had already taught in the school, had the connections and the relationships. And so it made the transition pretty seamless.
Nice. that's awesome. Man, that's a great path too, like to see it and to understand that this is the thing and have the time. Cause my school librarian was like, I think I'm probably going to retire like next year. And I was like, this program is at least two and a half years. What am going to do? Like, so that's, that's interesting that there's such a long lead time on that. Yeah, yeah, it worked out really well. They give us little bumps in our retirement, like in our pay before we retire.
So it benefits the teachers that do that. nice. Well, that's very nice. So we're going to be talking about VR and empathy, and you've put together some really great resources. But I'm kind of curious, like, how did you end up with this particular lesson activity? Thank you for asking that. So when VR was just hitting the stage, I was at what's called the NICE conference. It's the Northern Illinois Computing Educators Conference. used to be ICE was the state level, now it's Ideacon.
And it was like a cold January day. I was in a high school on a Saturday, attended all these sessions. And at lunch, they were just handing out these raffle prizes. And my friend Maria Galanis got this Google Cardboard and it was not together yet. It was just flattened out and we're looking at this like, what is this thing? What does this do? And of course, being the curious person that I am, we brought it back to school and I started kind of playing around with it.
And I'm like, ooh, what could I do with this? This is like in my first year or two as a librarian. And I found this really incredible app, RYOT by Huffington Post, where they had you, you you would put your phone, you'd have this app and put it on your phone and then put the phone inside the Google Cardboard.
And I had a little station I created with seventh grade students where they were basically on the shores of Greece, Aleppo, Greece, and they're like looking out into the water and all of a sudden you see this boat coming towards you and it's these Syrian refugees who have fled war. And they come ashore and they're crying and they're excited and you can see the sky, look down and see the sand. You feel the emotion because you're immersed in this space.
And so it led us some really rich conversations that year because we had been studying refugees and prior becoming a librarian, I was a seventh grade social studies teacher and I work in a very privileged district. So kids see the world, but they're seeing the world in the four seasons. They're not really seeing the world and understanding how people live.
So I felt like it was my job as an educator and a librarian to kind of like burst the bubble and help them recognize how people really are living around the world and how fortunate they are with the hopes that one day they would take the resources they have and do something to better the world. So, you know, we have these really amazing conversations in class. It was a little station of like five or 10 Google Cardboards. Fast forward to, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. actually.
One is just for the folks who are not as, let's say, experienced as we are, the Google VR, I'm sorry, the Google Cardboard was basically like a little box. And when you kind of unfolded it, it sort of looked like an old Viewmaster, which is gonna even be more dated than the Google Cardboard. it unfolds into a little box. You put your phone in it, and it basically becomes a really inexpensive VR headset.
So just in case there folks who weren't sure of that, we've got some of the newbies out there who maybe weren't familiar. And I do have a question about this program that the students were looking at. And I don't know if you'll have an answer, but was this a produced piece of media or was this like live footage that somebody had shot that they turned into this? Do you know like? Ooh, that is it.
Well, was Huffington Post. So I think it was Live Shot slash produced because they worked with Susan Sarandon, who I know did some of the narration for some of that. Yeah. So it was it was during a time when and I've put this in my resources to share with your listeners, Chris Melk, who's a very famous VR cinematographer, he did this TED Talk in 2015 and basically pronounced that VR was the ultimate empathy machine.
And so that changed everything because now you have all these nonprofits are trying to raise awareness and they're like, how can we help people really experience what's happening so that we can raise funds for our charity? so I think refugees in particular has been a massive focus when you look at like, know, VR for good programs and charitable organizations, because they want to support these people and their hardship.
And so it's such a different experience than just reading an article or even just seeing a video on the news because you are immersed in this space and you are there experiencing it with the people. Yeah, and like you were saying, you can look around and literally see the 360 degree space around you. So your students are not only seeing these people coming toward them, almost like a documentary film, but they're actually, like you said, they can look down and see the sand.
They can look up and see the sky. Like it is an immersive environment. So that's gotta be really amazing as an experience to see that basically firsthand. Like this is, I hadn't really thought of it before, but this is a really interesting first. hand accounting that we can get from VR because you're literally immersed in that space. Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, we as librarians really take pride in creating collections with the mirrors, windows and sliding glass doors.
And I see VR as being a very powerful sliding glass door because now you can bring in this experiential learning experience with this technology, whether it is more simplistic phone in a Google Cardboard or something like a MetaQuest. it allows students to be, you become so present in the space, you lose... you lose sight of the fact that like you're sitting in a library or classroom because now you put this on and you are transported to another place in time, which is so profoundly powerful.
Yeah, wow. So you started with some Google Cardboards. You've got some students that are engaging with this. How did it grow from there? So I think I knew I was onto something interesting because this was a seventh grade.
And so then in eighth grade, they were doing US history and the US history teachers came to me one day and just, was happenstance that a family in the area, had their temple was sponsoring different Syrian refugee families and they wanted to create what they called like a welcome wagon. So they were gonna create this private Facebook page And there was a family in particular that had been, they had spent two years in a Turkish refugee camp. They were moving to the United States.
They didn't know any English. They knew nothing really about American life. And so the goal was to like help them assimilate to life in the United States. So we were tasked with having students create short little videos to help them understand life in the United States. Now I have to just, I know, right? It's so cool, but here it is. It's eighth grade. I have kids that are like, Rockstar super involved kids. They've got Hebrew lessons, violin, soccer. Like they're so super involved.
And the only time we could really do this was after school. So I said to the teachers, all right, we're gonna set a date. Let's see who shows up. I'm thinking like, you know, we'll get like five or six kids and we'll make it work. It was standing room only. We had like 50 kids show up. And they ended up making these amazing videos about like how to use a vending machine, how to use a microwave, who are the Disney princesses?
Because there was a little girl in the family and they needed to know that. And it made me realize that I really feel that the VR experience helped them. It like left an imprint on them. It was this powerful experience and they felt an emotional connection and they felt compelled to do something. And that in turn ended up inspiring my research for my PhD and all the work that I've been doing since in my library. That is just so amazing.
Wow. And boy, just to think about that level of participation from students for something that is purely voluntary. Like, I don't think we get 50 kids going out for a sports team. Like nevermind coming out to work on an extra project that's going to be more work, right? So, wow, that just speaks to how powerful this is. Amazing. So. I knew it was something magical because like I said earlier, it's just my goal was to help children understand that they can do something.
And this was something that they could do right then and there as 13 and 14 year old students. just to see their joy and excitement and them trying, putting in so much effort to do such a great job, it meant a lot. So I think VR can really change the way people think. So you've got this awesome form of experience that's helping you think about how VR might come in. And as you said, this became an area of research for you.
You've published several papers on this, which are very impressive and kind of lend more depth to the idea that this is a tool that we should be utilizing across academia, but especially, I think, in our lower grades where we really can see that impact on the students and help them see that there's more to the world than just their little slice of it. That's really amazing.
So how did this particular lesson come to fruition as you were kind of pulling all these different threads together that we ended up with stories of displacement? Yeah, so I was really fortunate to work with the same social studies teacher who kind of trusted me to do this little Google Cardboard lesson. He's actually since retired, but he ended up working with me and we decided to basically take this little nugget of an idea and expand it.
So. Our stations were something that we moved from the classroom into the library, which I loved. And I have a large space, so we were able to just set up all these different tables where students could go and explore different picture books. And then downstairs I had a set of about 10, originally it was Oculus Go headsets, now I have MetaQuest. And in 10 to 15 is about a manageable amount for one teacher to oversee. Yeah. so then I have students do kind of the VR experience.
And then we've used, you know, We Are Displaced, which is a really beautiful collective biography book that has all different experiences. So it was just a way for them to kind of sample different stories and find connections between the stories and also see the strength in the people in these stories. really honor what people are going through.
And we're finding in our school that we're getting more and more forcibly displaced children that are coming to our school, especially from Ukraine and Russia. And so it's important for people to be aware and have that understanding and that empathy. And so that was kind of the focus of the piece. So it's just a way to keep the literature there and the story, but also have the VR incorporated. So I'm curious, how did you end up getting your headsets? Was that funded through the district?
Did you get a grant? How did that come about? Yeah, I was able to get, so here in Illinois we have something called Rails, which is a state-right organization that kind of is sort of an umbrella over both public and school libraries. And they have these really wonderful grants called My Library Is. And I was able to win a grant to get 15 headsets. Of course, the summer that happened, the price of the headsets went up, so my district had to kick in a couple hundred bucks to cover me.
But yeah, we were able. to get 15 headsets, which has been great because I've used it not just with the refugee stations, but we do Anne Frank's house, we do Traveling While Black. And at the heart of all of these experiences is about empathy and understanding. Like that is what I want my students to take away from this experience and that has been the focus of my research as well.
love that you are finding a way to use technology as an empathy driver because it seems like so much of the technology that we use these days almost functions in the opposite way, that it kind of separates us, that it puts us in our own little world and our own little filter bubble of information or connections. And you're seeing a way to reverse that completely and help people be present in other situations that they probably wouldn't otherwise get the chance to. That's really awesome.
That's really awesome. And I should mention, so in my study I did, I used a film called The Displaced, which you can actually find on YouTube. And I have a student who had previously used VR, so there wasn't like the novelty of it, who also was on the autism spectrum. And that year had a really, he was having a really tough year. But you put the headset on and now in The Displaced, you're face to face with this boy Oleg from Ukraine.
And right away he's reaching out and he's like, Hey, friend, hey, little guy. He was like trying to talk to him. And his data was just remarkable. Both his cognitive and affective empathy scores. So cognitive empathy is when we can put ourselves in someone else's shoes. Affective empathy with an A is when we can feel what someone else is feeling. His scores doubled.
So that to me, was remarkable because I think sometimes we wonder if students that are neurodiverse are able to relate to others and are we getting through to them? And it was profound what this experience had on that particular student. But all of my students that I used in my study, they had a growth both in cognitive and affective empathy.
And even when you have a film in 360, so for the displaced, I had in my treatment group, people were watching it on the headset, but my control group, they just watched it on their Chromebooks. And so you still have the 360 capability, but you still know you're in the library and you're not feeling like you're there. However, their effective empathy increased enough that it was statistically significant.
So to me, I want your listeners to know if you can't get the headsets, even having the ability to go onto YouTube and get 360, is going to impact the way they feel for others. And that's supported by the research because there is some research out there on empathy that effective empathy is kind of like the basement. It's the lower level. It's something that we learn early on because of mirror neurons. So when I see you're upset, I'm gonna feel that as well.
And so when these kids are seeing this distressing situation and hearing these really moving stories, they're gonna feel for the person that's right in front of them. VR though, was the one that really increased in the cognitive empathy. And that makes sense also because now you're enveloped in this space, you kind of feel like you're there with these people and you feel like you're in their shoes. So yeah.
would let you start filling in the blanks that you might have in your own personal experience and see like, okay, now I understand. Not only do I feel it, but I understand why these people are facing what they're facing. Interesting. can't get the VR, there's still real power in 360. And so I know with the ability for people to do things on iPads or Chromebooks, and there's a lot of really great 360 films that are available on YouTube.
also like anytime I offer a VR experience to have a 360 as a backup because about 8 to 10 % of students will experience motion sickness. They will get dizzy, they'll get headaches, they'll get stomach aches. Some will know that coming in and they'll tell you. Others, it'll happen when they're in there. So I always tell them, you're feeling any discomfort, tell me we're done. We're going through 60. Because I still want them to have the experience, but I don't want them feeling sick.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I have a VR headset, I've got a MetaQuest that I have played around with a bit. there's most of it fine, but there's certain things that will absolutely just make me feel nauseous. And it's like, okay, this is not the thing for me. that's definitely one thing to bear in mind when you're experiencing this, especially if it's for the first time that your body may react differently than you're expecting. Yeah, I feel like for me it's like, it's the fast moving stuff.
so with the cinematic VR that we do most of the time, is pretty calm. And so most kids do well, but there's always a handful that have that issue. And so I want to make sure we provide accessibility. Yeah, that's great.
And it's really interesting to hear that a student who was on the spectrum was really, had a really great experience with this because I think a lot of times in schools, we kind of think, what are we going to do to help those students, you know, have experiences that are going to be impactful and meaningful? And we're not all necessarily trained in the intricacies of what the, that might involve.
So to know that there's a tool that can be very helpful for this for some students is really, that's a great thing to have in the back pocket. Absolutely. And the way the filmmakers are creating these films, think they're getting more creative. So Traveling While Black looks at, that's a longer one, it's about 20 minutes long, and it is set in Ben's Chili Bowl in DC, which is a famous diner.
And you basically sit with different individuals and they tell you what it was like to be black in the time of, you know, the green book, using the green book. And so there's a scene, I know, it's fascinating. And it actually comes to modern day where they show the brutal killing of Tamir Rice. Hmm. You know, I work in a predominantly white school. And so I think it's important for them to understand the black experience.
again, it has promoted these incredible reflections and rich conversations. And it's so impactful. But what I love about that film is the filmmakers at one point, they have you seated in a booth and you look to your left and there's someone next to you and you look across and there's people. It's like you're sitting in the booth with these people while they tell the story. And you're like part of it. It is. It's brilliant. Wow, that's cool. Definitely have to dig into that.
all of these I'm mentioning are free. So that's the other thing that's amazing. And Traveling All Black is also available on YouTube. So if students can't handle the VR, we can give it to them in an alternative format. And just in case people aren't paying attention, you did provide a padlet of some resources that includes videos as well as books, as well as some research to go with. Here's why this is a good thing that we should be thinking about looking at. So. Yeah, yeah.
So I included the Chris Melk video, which I think is really important to watch if you're just trying to get started. then, famously, I included my research, but it's honestly some of the only stuff out there for middle grade. A lot of the research on VR is more focused on the STEM and STEAM and not as much on cinematic VR. The studies that I looked at before I started my research, most of them were for media literacy students or media students in college or They looked at adult responses.
So it's some of the first in its kind to look at, you know, K-12 students and how they respond. That's awesome, that's amazing. So I kind of sidetracked us a little bit. So I'm gonna try and bring us back around a little bit. So the students are coming in, there's station setup, some of the stations are physical texts, some of them are VR stations.
So once they have sort of made their way through the stations, is there something in particular that like leads them through the stations, or is it sort of a rotate every so often? Yeah, it's just a rotation. there's all different, you know, we did, and I need to look at my notes here. We have a bunch of different picture books. So there's one called Stepping Stones where the art is made all out of rocks and it's absolutely, it's profoundly beautiful.
You know, Stormy Seas, which is kind of this mixed media piece. You can take some excerpts from graphic novels like The Unwanted by Don Brown, and then obviously the VR. So yeah, over the course of two days, we have them kind of cycle through. to get tastes of different refugee experiences in different countries. And I've put in the tablet as well, there's different VR experiences you can provide. So I've put the displaced in there.
There's one called the key, which is really more of an animation, but, and I didn't know this until I saw it, I guess a lot of people when they have to leave their homes, they take their key with them, knowing that they'll probably never return. And that key is the symbol of their home, like of their homeland and their home. And that's all that they, I know it's like so powerful. So I get the chills just, yeah. So that one is interesting because you're kind of on the journey.
It's very emotional and it's very like symbolic, but it promotes such interesting conversation. And all of these resources I should mention, I'm seeing this as kind of a 612 lesson. Some of the picture books certainly could be used with elementary, but most of the VR films on this topic are really going to be meant for middle school or high school students. So they, we don't do enough with picture books in the upper grades.
And I love that you are specifically making that an element of this because it's something that, yeah, okay, sure. Kids, younger kids can understand them, but older kids can analyze them and they can see things that they would not have seen as younger students. So I love that you're bringing those in. Thank you. Yeah, that is something I did as a classroom teacher too.
And I just feel like in today's world where we are gaining so much information visually, like we as librarians should be promoting visual literacy. And so much of the story is not just the texts and these beautiful visuals, the color palette, the placement of objects, know, so, you know, it leads to some really great conversation. And ultimately the students read the, we are displaced and they pick one individual from that collective biography.
And then they showcase their story through some kind of artwork of some kind. So some students got really inspired and they love stepping stones and they're like, can I do some work using stones? I'm like, sure. And then other kids wanted to use Canva and some want to use CoSpaces and create a VR world. So then it's up to them to kind of share their learning and highlight sort of the triumphs of these stories and the struggle and what these people have been through in the grit.
through their own chosen media form and then they can share it with their classmates. Hmm. I love that. I love that they're getting to not only reflect, but that there's a sharing component that they're creating. They're creating something that is to them meaningful, but that is making meaning from these other experiences. And then that gets shared with the whole group so that we're all learning from each other as we go. That's awesome.
Hmm. I can see why your social studies teacher would want to do this. This is amazing. Boy. So, How did you sort of pick what elements you were gonna use as resources for this? Were there any particular ways that you decided these are the VR films, these are the books that we're gonna use, or was it more just as you came across stuff you were like, yeah, that's definitely gonna be something to throw in? It started as an ooh yeah.
you know, Stormy Seas was a book that was nominated for a Rebecca Cottle award here in Illinois. So that's a state book award. So I wanted to highlight that at that time. I also wanted to be mindful of different kinds of art and format when we were picking the books. But with the VR, it's really dependent on.
The teacher and what they'd like I used to use something called a place called home and that no longer exists So then I've had to kind of pivot so that's the other thing is the VR is constantly changing And so when something is great in a home run last year, it never fails and it's like, it's been sunset and now that doesn't exist anymore So then you have
to go find something else, but there's a wealth of information I also wanted to be mindful of the VR not being too lengthy because you know traveling well back 20 minutes By the time you get everybody hooked up and in and good to go, it takes a long time. You can only get two rounds of kids in there. So limiting it to like a six or 10 minute film was important to me as well because then I could cycle several rounds of kids through in an hour long period.
So it's yeah, kind of timing, mixed media, teacher input. And then every year we, you you mix it up because it's fun to just try different things and see how the kids respond. Absolutely. I can also see a strong case being made for keeping the film short because of our students' attention spans and helping them stay on task. So that totally all makes sense. So you have done this lesson before.
Is there anything that as you have done this, you've been like, next time around, we gotta do this or we need to add this or man, we shouldn't have done it that way. We should have done it this way instead. Like any learning moments as you went? I think the biggest learning moment has been just to be more mindful of where these refugee stories are coming from. it's not just, know, when I first started, it was like very heavily Syrian.
And now we're finding that there's forcibly displaced people from many different countries. so making a conscious effort to provide these really powerful sliding glass doors and give offer students an opportunity to see them from all these different places. because there's sadly a lot of commonalities between the experience and so helping them sort of understand that. I also have had to be sensitive to my students who are forcibly displaced, who are now in my building.
And sadly for them, that's a mirror and it's like, you I want to be sensitive to that as well. And that's a big shift in recent years. So I think just being much more mindful and sensitive to this topic. I gotcha. I'm curious and I don't know if there's a right or a wrong answer to this. I'm just generally curious. So you've got students who may be displaced. Do you try to seek out pieces that will fit with their particular experience or do you avoid that or do you not go either way?
Is it more just a we're looking at the general experience as opposed to a specific experience? So, I mean, kind of going back to that mirrors, windows and sliding glass doors, I so far have just leaned into it because I want kids to be able to see themselves in the work. And then it has provoked such amazing conversations where there's such increased sensitivity and awareness. And I want the students who are forcibly displaced to realize that like we are here to support you, we care about you.
And I think... I want them to feel that. so, and I think having their classmates, for example, see Oleg from the Ukraine and now we have a student here from Ukraine, like how important that is to see like, and it's obviously they're two totally different experiences, but there's some commonality.
And so for the students who aren't from Ukraine to hear this story and kind of know what someone's been through, it's like, they might start to think a little differently and maybe they're more likely to ask that. person to come and sit with them at lunch and be a little kinder. And I think it's really powerful. Yeah. man, that's so great.
So I can imagine that this is a lesson that works on so many different ability levels without needing a whole lot of adjustment because you've got your watching video and the picture books, while they can absolutely be, you know, really dug into, they also are a very accessible resource. So I imagine this works really well with like students with, you know, IEPs, students at different ability levels.
Is there anything that you felt like you needed to adjust or try and manipulate to make it more accessible for any of your students? So we've been having such an influx of multilingual learners. so we've been, especially with like print books, what we've been doing is offering an iPad with Google Translate so they can just kind of scan over and then now it's you translated to their native language, because we have many students that come in that know no English or know very little English.
And so now I'm throwing them into this lesson. And yes, there's pictures, but there's this beautiful story that's written. So having the Google Translate, I think, really helps them. But the fact that they're getting up and moving, that there's a lot of visual components, I find that the students are really engaged. I joke on those days like I could be a cardboard cutout. They just like they are just like doing their thing and they are good to go.
And then even when they're creating their projects at the end, it's something they are excited about, they get choice. We offer options, but then they can also propose something totally on their own as well, and I welcome creativity. So each step along the way, I feel like we're trying to individualize and make it engaging for them. What a great mark of a lesson though that the students are basically don't need you to be there because they are so focused on what's going on.
Like that says it all to me. Like clearly this is landing. So speaking of landing, have you gotten any particular feedback from students or from the staff about how this has gone when students have had the chance to experience this? Yeah, so anytime I do a VR experience, have the students do a reflection kind of selfishly because I'm just curious, like, what do you think of all this?
And both students and staff have just said that it's a really powerful experience to be able to read all these books and to view the VR. You know, they'll say things like it really has brought it to life more. I feel like I really understand it because I mean, it can be a really complex topic. And yeah, and to watch it in the news or watch just a quick video clip isn't the same as hearing someone's personal story. And that's the beauty of all of these pieces.
So many of them are someone's personal story. And that provides that level of connection that you don't necessarily get from a textbook or something like a student news channel that we turn on for them. And I try to find material that has a child character in it. because students have said when it's someone around their age, they feel even more connected than if it were an adult.
So I think being mindful of the age you're working with and trying to find individuals of that same age in your media is really important too. makes a ton of sense. I mean, again, coming back to primary sources, like as good as a news source might be when you're getting firsthand information from a primary source who has been through this, you're going to experience it differently. You're going to understand it differently. So that's really such an important reminder.
I also love how you very specifically make a point of having them reflect. And I think that's so easy to overlook when we're doing lessons with students, especially if they're coming from a class and they're, you know, participating in something here, but then they're going back to class. That's something that I know I need to work on building into my lessons more often, because you're right. Like you want to know, is this landing? Is it working? Do I need to change stuff?
And I think it's really easy to get in habit of, I'm going to present this 92 times because all the classes are to come through and hopefully it's working, but I'm not really sure. So man, so many things I'm walking away from this. It does. you feel good. And you know, and it doesn't have to be hard. Like I'll sometimes just do a hash sheet and it's just like two questions or like QR code, scan it, go Google form, like two or three questions. That's it.
And I always have an open end and what is there anything else you want to tell me? Because it never fails that a kid will have this aha moment and just like blow my mind. So yeah, I mean, and I think it's good for us because we're working so hard behind the scenes and It's great for advocacy too, because when a principal is wondering, how are things going? Well, look at this. Look what the kids are saying about all that I'm providing as this instructional leader. It can be such powerful data.
Wow, that's great. Man, all right, so I'm already designing QR posters to put around my library so that any time we do something, just go right to it, students, you know you gotta do this. so is there anything that if somebody was gonna do this for the first time that they should sort of have at the front of their mind as they're getting ready to dive into this? Well, I think the picture book part is easy. The book part is easy. I think we can do that.
When it comes to the VR component, my advice is to just start small. When I started, had, I think I had like five headsets. Full transparency, MetaQuest is not really designed as an educational tool. There's no like platform like ClassVR where you can like push everything out. So you have to work with your tech department to figure out a login system. I have to then individually push out everything to all the headsets. And doing it with 15 can be cumbersome.
It takes like a week or two in advance for me to make sure it's all ready to go. And it never fails that a couple don't work. So I would say anyone starting out, just a couple. And you maybe that's, you start really small. Maybe you're not digging in to do these stages first thing. You find somebody who's willing to give up some time and just have a couple kids come and try it out and see how it goes. Because then if it goes well, maybe you can get the funding from your district to get more.
But. It definitely can be overwhelming at first, but the more you do it, the easier it gets. And then as you see the kids responding the way that they do, it becomes so worth it to put in all that time because you know it's going to be such an impactful lesson. Yeah, boy, this is so awesome. I mean, there's so many things now, like not even necessarily about this lesson, but just having this conversation has got me thinking about all these things that can go on in the library. I love it.
Man, this is awesome. Thank you so much for sharing it. We are now gonna take our 90 degree turn and go into our book break. So you can share whatever you wanna share, just some titles you think people might wanna know about. So what did you wanna bring to the table and let people know, hey, you wanna put this on your radar? Okay, everyone, librarians, educators, administrators, you absolutely have to read That Librarian by Amanda Jones.
Yeah, I was actually just talking to a woman who lives in the community where I teach and she was talking about how she just adores librarians and she's so sad by what they're going through and I recommended this book to her. It is a powerful story. It's a part memoir, part manifesto. It shares Amanda's... journey defending LGBTQ plus books in her public library in the summer of 2022. basically all the threats, death threats, smearing, everything that she has endured.
She is a champion in our field and continues to battle for, you know, this is not even battling for books. This is battling for humans. That's how I see this because yeah. And so she is my hero and one of my dear friends. And I have both the print book, which I've read, and I have her audio book, which she has read, which I love when authors read their own books. And I recommend them both. are phenomenal. Yes. did the same thing.
I ended up listening to it because when you've got the author reading to you and you know she's a good reader, because she's a school librarian who reads to students, so you know it's gonna work out. It was great, yeah. I am totally, I could not agree more. What a great book. And like you said, not just for school librarians. Like this is something that so many people should be reading to see.
It boggles my mind how few people still really understand some of these battles that are going on that are really about dehumanizing other humans. it's really, it's sad, it's scary, but you're right. Amanda is such a champion and she is just, she continues forward and is just doing her thing. She is such an inspiration. Man, yes, absolutely great title. And I think you had another one you wanted to share?
do. So as someone who is nearly 48, And you know my hormones are I kind of laugh I work in a middle school where I'm handing out books about periods all day long to the sixth graders and now I am entering the next phase of my hormones where I'm Entering the closure of all of that and menopause. So there is a fantastic book called new menopause by dr.
Mary Claire Haver and This is a very understudied topic and so she is a really incredible ob-gyn who basically lays it all out there, like all the things that we can be doing. And it's great because it's small things like taking creatine to improve our cognitive function and to help muscle gains, wearing a weighted vest to help our bone density. So there's a lot of little things we can do. And then if you're really suffering, working with a doctor to look at hormone replacement therapy.
And she debunked some of the previous studies that kind of scared women off from doing hormone replacement therapy. So. I just felt very seen and heard and empowered. So as I work with my doctor on navigating this next phase of life, I like being educated. And since librarians are a very female dominated field, thank you, Steve, for being a token male guy. It's important, I think, that we as women are empowered and knowledgeable about what's gonna happen to our bodies. Absolutely.
It boggles my mind regularly how little medical research there is specifically for and about women and women's issues. And like, there's this great book called Invisible Women, and I'm not gonna remember who the author is, but it is very specifically about how so much of our world was designed based on college educated white younger males. And so like, That's part of the reason cars are the sizes in the way they are. That's part of the reason why roads are the way they are.
That's part of the reason why transportation is the way it is, like public transportation. this, the author goes through, like, if they actually looked at how women use these systems, they would see that they use them a lot more than men do. And therefore, these are the adjustments that should be made. And it's like, how has no one, like, that women have not risen up and just taken us all out is... I applaud your restraint. Let's say that.
Well, yeah, I think I heard a podcast recently that said it wasn't until like the 80s that they had to require women to be part of like drug studies. They would just like do a drug study on men and be like, we'll just like tweak it and make it less for women. I'm like, we have a completely different body chemistry. Are you crazy? So yeah, it is baffling. put it in a pink container and it's for women, right? We're good. boy.
Well, this absolutely sounds like an important title and one that I'm gonna be interested in checking out too, because I'm curious. I mean, it's good to know what's going on with people. So. Well, I mean, we have to like, it's not something to be afraid of. And you know, I know you're married and you have a wife and every woman is going to go through this if they live long enough. So it's important for men to be allies as well. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming.
Thank you for sharing your time and your resources and your lessons and your ideas and your book recommendations. I mean, so much stuff you have shared here. I am so grateful. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you so much, Steve. It's been such a delight to spend time with you and any of your listeners are welcome to reach out to me if they have any questions. Awesome, and your contact info is in the show notes. So if folks want to track you down, they know where to go find you.
So hopefully they'll take advantage of that because you are such an amazing school librarian and resource. So thanks one more time. I can't say it enough. Thank you so much. Thank you, Steve.