In the world of metaphysics, spirituality, and the paranormal, there's lots and lots of conspiracy theories. Right now, we've done a pretty good job of staying away from most of those, so we don't fall into that controversial water problems that people have. But we can no longer as of today, delay our conversation about things that make you go hmmm, you know why why? Because to help us breach this topic, we finally have someone who's an expert who can talk
about stuff. We have the man who has all the answers to all the questions, every question, and if he doesn't, he makes them up.
That sounds like you, he does.
We get along so great. He does this with the help of a couple of his friends. On top of things, we are also bringing another friend of ours who specializes in a little bit of chaos.
Oh, I like that.
This one's gonna be fun.
It sounds like it might be chaos here.
My name is Will and I'm Karen, And unlike Boulder and Scully, both want to believe. So we've embarked in a journey of discovery. Welcome to Skeptic Politicians Classic. You are listening to the classic skeptic metaphysicians. Welcome to our version of a walkdown Memory Lane as we present classics
from the Skeptic Metahisician Library warts and all. There's a story that really reminds me of some of the stuff that I've gone through over the past who knows how many years, and that that i'd share it with you. During a research experiment, a marine biologist placed a shark into a large holding tank and then released several small bait fish into the tank. As you'd expect, the shark quickly swam around the tank, attacked, and ate the smaller
fish right well. The marine biologists then inserted a strong piece of clear fiberglass into the tank, creating two separate partitions. She then put the shark on one side of the fiberglass and a new set of baitfish on the other. Again, the shark quickly attacked. This time, however, the shark slammed into the fiberglass divider and bounced off undeterred. The shark kept repeating this behavior every few minutes to no avail. Whatever he did, he just couldn't get to the fish. Meanwhile,
the baitfish swam around unharmed. In the second partition, and eventually, about an hour into the experiment, the shark gave up. Now, this experiment was repeated several dozen times over the next few weeks. In each time, the shark got less and less aggressive and made fewer and fewer attempts to attack the baitfish, until eventually the shark got tired of hidding
the fiberglass divider and simply stopped attacking altogether. Well, then the marine biologists remove the fiberglass divider, but the shark didn't attack. See, the shark was trained to believe that a barrier existed between it and the baitfish, so the baitfish swam wherever they wished, free from harm because the shark was programmed to feel that he couldn't get to them. Many of us, after experiencing setbacks and failures, emotionally give
up and stop trying. Like the shark in the story, we believe that because we were unsuccessful in the past, will always be unsuccessful. In other words, we continue to see a barrier in our heads even when no real barrier exists between where we are and where we want to go. So keep in mind that every day is a brand new day and the only barrier that really exists is in your mind. Welcome to the Skeptic by Physicians.
I'm Will and Care And before we introduce our guests, I want to introduce a special guest host that's kindly agreed to join us this time around. She's a voiceover actor and former radio gal who happens to also host the Keeping Up with Chaos podcasts. Welcome Joslyn Rocky to the show.
This is gonna be so fun.
Thank you.
I'm not sure if you know what you got yourself into, but yeah, we're gonna say it's fun.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
Well, I just have to point out that they said gal. People don't say gal anymore.
So just to make make it clear, this was directly from her bio. She sent me the bio. She calls herself a gal.
So okay, well that's different. Yes, if you are a self titled gal, that's one thing.
Yeah, lady chick gal, you know, I answer it all.
Jos And tell us about your podcast real fast before we introduce KJI, because I know that a lot of people out there just the name alone Keeping Up Chaos it brings up a lot of questions.
Yeah, it's a fun podcast. You know, for entertainment, and it's all about just conversation, bringing on all different types of people, you know, just to have a conversation and just sort of normalize chaos. So and it's amongst friends. We bring our new friends, and we had you guys on. So it was like, you know, it's just a fun podcast.
I love how you say you normalize chaos. I think that's if there's ever a thing that we need to do more, it's normalized chaos. So thanks for the work that you're putting in. Thanks for your service.
Yeah, you're welcome.
All right now, our official guest is also a writer and a producer, but he's in Hollywood. His film and television projects have played on Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Peacock, Roku, you name it, it's been on it now. He's written eight feature films that have been produced, including The Commando, a feature film starring Michael J. White and Mickey Rourke. And most importantly, he produces and hosts the Unofficial Official Story podcast with his co hosts Jennifer Field and Dwayne Perkins.
Welcome Koji Stephen Sikai to the show. Hello, how are you guys doing great? I can't wait to talk to you about all things unofficially official.
I look forward to talking to you all things unofficial official as well.
Cool. Now, your show is really fun, really interesting, a lot of conspiracy theories, a lot of all kinds of different and not just conspiracy theories. That's not really fair to say, but to give you an example of the topics that you cover. The show that I was on, we discussed the possibility of Britney Spears being a secret agent for George H. W. Bush. If that gives you an idea about the topics on the show, right, And you've covered things like are the Grays the best aliens
because they're Asian? Right? So you I mean, you talk about all kinds of fun stuff, and really the whole plot I guess of the show is that you come up with different theories and then amongst all of you, you decide what the real theory is, whether it's real or not. That's you.
You know. I love paranormal I love true crime, I love conspiracies, I love all other things. And I've listened to every single podcast that is related to I watch all the TV and the movies, and you know the problem with all the shows is that they always do the same thing over and over and over, and they
say the same facts over and over and over. And as you mentioned in my bio, I'm a writer and producer, and I thought I can come up with these theories about what really happened to these things, you know, and it could be more fun because I'm just kind of
making it up. So that's what we decided. We decided to get a group of people together who were into these kinds of things and just talk about these conspiracies and paranormal and true crime stuff and then just make up our own stories about what really happened, and then vote and decide which one is the actual true story about what really happened.
I love that.
I was just going to ask you how you came up with your stories, but you're making them up.
I like it.
Well, you know, we try to, like you know, we try to look around the facts of whatever the situation is, so we don't just totally make it up. But yeah, we try to figure out what the facts are. Then we based on nothing else, we just create stories around it.
So even your guests, you have them come up with a theory behind it, and then you all know, of course, and I was on your show. It's easy for me to say I had the best theory just because you.
Know, I'm sorry for my lack loud.
A little loud, Karen, a little loud. Yeah, So what got you into metaphysics, into paranormal that kind of thing.
Well, you know, I've always been really interested in all these things, but I think I've always come at it from a slightly different point of view than most people. You know, I went to my first UFO convention when
I was like seven or eight years old. I was always really into kind of those kinds of events and those kinds of places, but I always looked at it from a social kind of political framing as opposed to kind of just this paranormal and just looking at it from kind of an interesting side note kind of thing.
So like for me, for example, when I look at like the nineteen fifties and I study what happened, then they talk about you know, space brothers, space sisters, and they take you to the space and you look out and you see, like, you know, they show you the world and say you're messing it up. And then in the sixties it became these gray aliens, right, and they're doing like antal probes and sexual experiments, and it's really tragic. And this is you know, in the fifties it coincided
with kind of peace and everything's kind of great. In the sixties, it was like the Civil Rights, Vietnam, all these things were happening. The women's movement was growing as well. And then now you look at kind of these abductions and you see that they're about people who are being
abducted in as our neighbors. Right These hybrid aliens are abducting people and they're taking them to the Dodger Stadium and asking them if this is what it's like to watch a baseball game, you know, And so what that tells us now, really, to me, what's interesting is that tells us now that we're so afraid of our neighbors that they could actually be half alien hybrids, you know. And to me, that's what's really interesting about the paranormals. It speaks to a lot about who we are as
people and humanity and our society. And that's what I really like. I'm kind of agnostic. I don't discount everything, nor do I believe in everything, and I enjoy kind of being in the middle there now do.
You think your neighbors are part Aliens?
Like, I mean, because I've walked down the street and I have questioned of my neighbors before.
You know, everyone has that shifty neighbor.
Yeah.
Sometimes I think I'm the alien.
So yeah, And we've talked about that on the show, right the Star Seeds of they say that they've come from different planets and things like that. So I think a lot of the stuff that's going on in the world nowadays, they say that with reptilian race is actually taking over our government, which is why we're in such a big mess because they're trying to fuck everything up or whatever.
Yeah, and Mark Zuckerberg is allegedly a reptilian.
So and I also listen on your last podcast, I think you talked about Elon Musk being a reptilian.
Possibly I paid attention.
So they're smart, the reptilians, maybe.
I mean, yeah, you have to be smart to be able to smuck things up as hardcore as they've mucked it up.
But if it's gotten out, then there haven't been that smart.
Right, Oh, that's true a really long time.
Even within the race, you know, or within aliens. There's it's really interesting because they're hierarchy like. So there's the Nordic aliens, which are like the Nordic looking really tall, really good looking aliens, and they're always seen as the best and most the ones that don't hurt you aliens. And then there's like the gray aliens, which are seen as Asian because they're you know, they don't they're small, they're hairless, they're kind of robotic, and this is a
real great people actually think they are hairless. They're hairless. Yeah, yeah, So it's really interesting to kind of see like a lot of these stereotypes and and our projections being put onto kind of these other things that I think are interesting.
I do find it interesting that the Nordic ones, right, the ones that are the best, the best looking ones, and the tall, beautiful looking ones are like the Caucasian ones and everything else that's akin to the minority races are little and withered and shriveled up and ugly.
And yeah, yeah, and being traumatic. Yeah, it's always the it's never good. No one sees a gray alien and says it's good.
I was going to say, like, do you believe in the shadow people, you know? Or like yeah, or what is it the Shadow Ranch, that's out West, I mean, or yeah.
Oh Skinwalker skins.
Skinwalker Ranch, is that that's connected to the aliens?
Correct?
Yeah, sir. I'm actually of the school believe that everything's a tulpa. Have you guys ever heard of toulpas before?
I have not.
So Tulpa's are where it's a Buddhist term where basically people put enough energy into something and everyone thinks about it, talks about it, writes stories, makes movies, and if there's enough energy put in it becomes real. Right, So the jew Jewish tradition has something like this, right, the golwams. But I really believe that the more energy everyone puts
into these things, they become real. So, for example, Slenderman nineteen ninety nine was the first time that it appeared in an online contest photo contest, and then after that people literally believe they see them now. So how does that happen? It's because everyone's putting so much energy, so much thought, so much work, it becomes real. So that's you know, I tend to believe that, like the Skinwalker Ranch, the shadow people, ghosts, you know a lot of things
are like that. We're putting so much energy in thought, because I do believe we're powerful as human beings and spiritual beings and that you know, even aliens and all these things. I believe that that tulpa is usually the answer that I go for for most most paranormal things.
Yeah, I was.
It was curious because my brother's totally in the Skinwalker ranch and he was saying that they're saying that it's like a portal possibly to you know, connect with and have conversations with possibly aliens or other life forms that are out there.
But I totally see that.
And with YouTube these days, I mean, I mean the amount of information that kids get and you know, from a collective hole. I hear about Slenderman's I hear about all that stuff for my kids, and it's like they believe they get a lot of information from that stuff and they believe in it, and then it could become real like what you're talking.
About that, I mean, well, people see Bigfoot who are not crazy, and then but nobody sees it, finds evidence of bigfoot. So how does that happen? It's either that they are crazy or that they do see something.
Right, So we just interviewed someone who's an expert on Bigfoot. This take is very interesting, explains all of that.
It does explain it all away. So if you're not listening to our big Foot episode, you totally should because it gives you all the answers. It leaves nothing to your imagination.
I find it so odd that we have a big foot sighting. Well it's called skunk foot, I think, or skunk something in Florida. I'm like, why, if you're that, Harry, why are you here? Like that's just too hot down here to be a.
Big butt like creature. You know.
That's why they call it a skunk foot, because you're so hairy. You're all sweaty and disgusting, and.
My showered and sell them a while away killed you.
What kind of stories are the ones that energize you the most? Like, what are the ones that you decide this is the one we're going to tackle on the show this week.
That's a good question to me. It's the stuff that people haven't heard, you know, as I was saying, in a lot of these paranormal shows and podcasts, they always talk about the same stuff like roswell or you know, those kinds of shows. So I wanted to cover topics that aren't as familiar. But one of the things I found in my show is that I'm not really a
paranormal podcast. I'm more of a comedy podcast, because if you're really a paranormal person, you're not listening to ours because we kind of make fun of it, even though
I'm a believer. That's that's the irony of it. But so kind of in the beginning, it was kind of just trying to find weird, random stuff, and then it became, let's like talk about everything because a lot of my audience, a lot of our audience aren't people that know about a lot of the things that everyone who actually listens to paranormal would, So, like, Skinwalker Ranch is definitely something we want to cover because you know, if you listen to paranormal, you know about it, but if you don't,
you're like, what the hell is Skinwalker Ranch? Right?
Exactly?
Skinwalker Ranch, dog Band, right, all that kind of stuff, those new new cryptids that are coming out.
So you believe in paranormal though, like you are a believer, because I was just you know, I was trying to figure out if you are trying to make it seem like not seem like but like that you believe in it and you're proving it right, or you're you don't believe in it and you're proving that it's not real.
You know, because I don't know about you, but sometimes I have like this glow earth ball in my kid's bathroom and it's fine, and then like you know, someone takes a shower in there, it starts, you know, going all glitchy, and I'm like, oh my god, there's a ghost in here. I'm like, no, it's just the steam, you know, messing with the glowball. But i mean, do you really do believe? Because I can talk myself right out of it.
Well, I think I'm agnostic, so I don't believe, like just wholeheartedly, like kind of over the dband. But I'm also not total skeptic, like nothing could ever happen and nothing is real. So you know, I believe that aliens could exist. I don't know if they visit or not, but I could see them visiting, you know. The for ghosts, I definitely believe in ghosts more than I do in a lot of the cryptids. I have sometimes a hard
time trouble. I mean, sorry to hear a former guest about Bigfoot but sometimes it's harder for me to believe some of these cryptids, you know, some of these other stuff that I find interesting and I always want to find out more. So I would say though that, you know, if I had to lean one way, I probably believe more than I don't believe, because why would I listen to podcasts? Why would I horror stories if I didn't believe on some level some of this stuff.
So, of all of your interviews and your stories in these conspiracy theories, is there one in particular that's a favorite or that's been most interesting or fun for you guys to talk about.
Britney Spears agents. Yeah, oh oh, sorry, well show its gonna be his answer anyway.
But go ahead. Yeah that was definitely going to be my answer, but now I have to quickly think of a new answer. No, you know, all of them, I mean, honestly, all of them have been really interesting to me. Though.
The one that really hit home the most was actually a nine to eleven episode which we didn't have a special guest, so just me, Dwayne and Jennifer, And the reason that was the most interesting was that Dwayne, my co host, he's a really wonderful comedian, he was talking to me about how he believed these conspiracies about nine to eleven, and it blew my mind because I'm totally not a nine to eleven truther, and I thought that
pretty much everyone around me wasn't either. So it was such a shocking moment, you know, in the middle of the episode to be like, wait, what do you believe this? You know, you believe all this stuff, and it was just kind of shocking to know that, you know, like, you know somebody for I've known Doined for maybe ten fifteen years, and then to find out on air that, you know, he believes in a lot of this stuff. Yeah he's not. I mean, I'm not saying he's crazy.
You don't worry, but you know, like just to find out that he's entertaining these things because he didn't, like, for example, he doesn't entertain that Britney Spears is a government agent for the CIA and George Bush, right, but he doesn't. So that was that was probably one of the most interesting episodes for myself.
For some the people who don't know, can you give us some idea what these conspiracies nine eleven conspiracies that Duane believes in.
Entail Yeah, So there's a first of all, there's a lot of conspiracies about nine to eleven, and they say nine to eleven is the beginning of a lot of kind of the q Andon and the flat earth thing that came back. A lot of that was like kind of the beginning of that, a lot of people distrusting the government. So there's a lot of conspiracies. There's a conspiracy that you know, first of all, there were no planes like that anything. That's like kind of a first conspiracy.
There's other conspiracies in the United States government knew about the planes that were going to happen, it didn't do anything to stop it. There's another one that the United States government is the one that that funded it and did it. And probably the most persistent one is that Building seven, which is a small building that you know, not the first two World Trade centers that we saw on TV.
The seventh building fell and a lot of things. A lot of people think that was demoled, that was self demolished by the government to bring the buildings down or all the buildings down, and that was the proof that the planes didn't hit Buildings seven. So why did it go down? Is kind of this proof, and so Dwayne, I believe was entertaining the notion that the United States government brought down the buildings on their own.
I would assume that's because they wanted to go into Iraq and get control of all the oil fields and all. And really the other conspiracy that I heard about it is that Genie's company they wanted to go in there and make all this money on the reconstruction of Iraq after the invasions.
So now, yea, I will say, and also the patriot react as well, right.
Right, right, I will say. I was in a control room in a newsroom when nine to eleven happened, and as I watched, the plane hit the second tower. So I know for a fact, Duane, that there was a plane because I saw it. I watched myself in my own eyes.
Actually you don't know this, but it was. It was on the Sony lot and it was all part of a Plinton Tarantino actually shot the movie that we watched on TV.
I thought it seemed a little wonky, a little soft.
On the string on the right.
It seemed like they did the original Star Trek in right, But you don't have.
To recovering up the alien invasion that was coming, or the zombies.
I know you like zombies.
I do love zombies. You know. One of the things about conspiracies that I find really interesting is that, you know, I'm much less believing in conspiracies than I believe in kind of the paranormal stuff. But the reason, you know, to me, the conspiracies are really interesting is that we humans want to have an explanation for all bad things happening.
We want a person to blame, we want a reason for things, whereas usually it's just a lot of really bad things happened all at one time, you know, and kind of in a serious of bad events and it becomes really bad. And I think that that's most likely because we all know that if you tell one person
something that it's no longer a secret. So to think of, like how big a conspiracy would have to be in order for us to for the United States government to bring down buildings of that size and do it without it ever getting out, truly getting out, would be crazy, especially nowadays, right, and.
Yet they've been doing it with the evidence of the UFO's existence for years and decades, right, So you just never know, that's right. I've heard that that was also in the same Sony lot. Actually that was no Having been in that same newsroom, I did see some things that maybe go hmm, right. And I'm not an expert in forensics or exclusives or anything like that, but the
towers did collapse really strangely. As I'm watching, the entire newsroom is in complete silence watching the tower collapse in itself. The way it did. It was very strange. It was almost as if there were explosives set inside the building. I can't confirm nor deny that, but it was strange, which is why I can see why some people might think, well, maybe there's some foul play here, especially because Cheney's company stood to make a lot a lot of money going into reconstruct Rock One.
Well, I mean, disaster capitalism is real, right, the whole idea that people make a ton of money on disasters, Like the companies have made a ton of money after Katrina, they made a ton of money after Not Eleven, all those kinds of things. I mean, there's definitely money to be made, for sure.
So then would you say that that's your favorite conspiracy theory? I know it's your favorite episode, but is there a conspiracy theory that you find even more intriguing than that one.
Have you ever heard Have you guys ever heard of Betty and Barney hell case?
It sounds awfully familiar, definitely from.
The early nineteen sixties. They were an interracial couple coming back from a unscheduled vacation to Niagara Falls. As they were driving, playing or UFO was allegedly following them and then they scot out. He tried to shoot it, of course, because that's what you do, and then they eventually got taken, and then they both got taken. They're both producted. It's
really the first abduction case that people talk about. When you think of modern abductions, you generally thinking of what you heard from the Betty and Barney Hill case, but people don't know it. I find it really really fascinating.
That was actually the genesis of the unofficial official story because my first thought when I first heard it was they were trying to cover up their interracial relationship by talking about UFOs and that people would stop talking about them about being inter racial and start talking about them
being UFOs. The crazy thing is, when I was doing research for the show, that was one of the theories that people have online are that it was a cover up for because they were inter racial couple in the ninety sixties went obviously it was sometimes illegal to be in a racial Yeah.
But I have I have heard of them before and probably on another show, and I did hear that same conspiracy theory that they were trying to cover up their forbidden love, because if you listen.
You can actually hear their hypnosis and it's really really fascinating me if you've never heard their hypnosis sessions where they're recounting it, it's really fascinating.
But the interesting thing is they did it separately, right, They were hypnotized separately, and they had the same stories. So it just makes that much more interesting because they had to have really talked to each other and two, Okay, this is what we're going to say.
Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of weird things like the clock. Their watches stopped at the same time, they had the same amount of missing time and all these things. So it was a very I mean to me like that. That's like one of the most interesting cases to me in terms of the UFO because people usually think of Roswell, but Roswell was just a plane crash, right, or a balloon crash, whatever, if they want the official STU.
I saw those little being little little bodies.
Oh, actually, that's interesting. Do you know that people think that it's actually okay? So there's two conspiracies I love about Roswell. One is that they were there were secretly special needs people from Russia, the Soviet Union. Have you ever heard of that?
I've never heard that one.
Okay, So this is this is where the theory comes from. People So allegedly Joseph Stalin heard what happened in America after the War of the World's broadcast and he's thought, oh my god, we should like cause chaos. What if we sent aliens to them? And so you put them on a balloon. He put special needs people on a balloon, put them in a crashed them d of New Mexico desert, thinking that's going to cause like riots everywhere. So that's
one thing. And the other theory is that they were little Japanese soldiers who got lost in the jet stream and then they crashed. The Japanese one actually has some merit in that. Then in the World War Two they did send these balloons, these large balloons called Fuu balloons where and they were dropping bombs from really high. They dropped a bomb in like Orion, So there were balloons, but this was you know, that was like nineteen forty three, forty four, not nineteen forty five in New Mexico. So
there's a difference. But yeah, I always find say, there's so many conspiracies. We could talk about conspiracies all day for every single case.
Do you mean to tell me there was actually a Japanese balloon that came over Oregon and drop bombs.
Yeah, there's a documentary. There's documentaries and it's it's proof. It's called Fugu Fu Gu and there are there are these balloons and I think, don't quote me on this. I believe someone was killed by one of the balloons. But it was you know, it was such a terrible weapon because it you know, you you're you had no control over where the balloon goes and you kind of stuck really high. It's like it wasn't a good it was kind of a desperation move.
Now, is there one conspiracy theory that's like the most ridiculous one in your opinion?
Actually, you know what, Before you answer that, let's take a break and we'll be right back and now back to the skeptic metaphysicians.
Now, is there.
One conspiracy theory that's like the most ridiculous one in your opinion? I mean, for me, I'm thinking the flat earthers. But that's just me because and I'm like, you're not sailing off that you're not falling off the end when you're on a boat.
Just get on the foo goo balloons and you can see that.
There's I mean, there's so many, you know, I think what's interesting to me. One of the most interesting conspiracies are out every every major politician, major actor, musicians. They're all related. They're all aliens, right, they're all reptilians, or they're all robots. If you look hard enough, you can find any any celebrity and put robot next to their name, and then you'll find somebody talking about how they're robot
or find out how they're they're reptilian alien. So I think, you know, I think all those are all those are super super fascinating to me. But the flat Earth. The interesting thing about the flat Earth is we think of flat earth is a modern thing. It actually started the eighteen hundreds, and it's kind of gone down.
I mean I kind of understand it better then than I do now.
No, they already knew then that was a globe too.
Yeah, it's ridiculous back then it is now, but you don't have like satellites and stuff that kind of prove that you're you know, so I can understand a little better nowadays. If you still believe the Earth is flat, then wow, uh yeah, I'm not anyone who's listening who believes that the Earth is flat. I fully support your belief system, and you're welcome to believe anything you want.
I just don't see how I love to. In fact, if you're out there and you believe the Earth is flat and you want to come on the show and talk about it, I would love to have you, because I can't imagine what evidence you have or what the thought process you have that will make you think that. So please reach out to us if you're interested in that.
Well, and that's interesting.
Yeah, I was gonna say you're a skeptic of the flat earthers then apparently like yeah, yes, for sure.
Yeah for sure.
Well what's interesting about the flat earthers are all all the conspiracies of that is very much like a cult in that you know, you'll you'll get the more you talk about something, the more you get separated from your family and friends, right, and then all of a sudden you only talk to the people within your group, which is aka cult. So it's the same thing for QAnon
flat Earth. There's like if you go on Facebook and say I'm a flat Earth or you'll lose like a lot of friends and then eventually you keep posting it. No you will, And I mean there's like a there's a phenomenon where they talk about flat Earth Thanksgiving because they're no longer invited to their relatives houses or children's houses, and so they spend the Thanksgiving by themselves and they share pictures of their Thanksgiving at home because they're by themselves.
And you know, that's like a very common because I mean, if you think about it, like you know, if you go to if you go to Thanksgiving and the person is talking to you about, you know, anti globe conspiracies, after a while you're like, can we not talk about this? You know, and then you get annoyed.
And to the Americas, they didn't fall off and that's why they have Thanksgiving.
That's just so ironic and they made it.
They were still on the flat plane. It was just one really well plane, long flat plane with ice on the edges of it. Oh it's ice, Yeah, it's ice.
Yeah, I never.
Knew that there was ice. And now I'm thinking of what was it Game of Thrones, the Ice.
Wall, right, the North Wall whatever.
Yeah, when you were talking about celebrities and being robots or aliens, like I think of time travel. My kids always believe that there's like these celebrities that have time travel. Do you believe in that or is that also like kind of a conspiracy type thing.
Oh, that's all conspiracy. But Elon Musk allegedly was a World War One pilot and there's a there's a picture of him allegedly as a World War One pilot. The thing was that I thought he totally looked alike and that was really shocking that I thought they looked exactly alike. But then my coast said I was racist because but to me, they totally looked alike and I could see them being the same people. But my coast did not believe it.
Now I'm gonna to go look at that picture.
But you do hear about people that pictures would that where a guy has like a digital watch on way back in time, and things like that photo at least at least call for you doing it.
Well, you know, like they'll always say things like how did how can the pyramids being built so long ago? Like that kind of technology are like, well, you know, they weren't stupid back then. They could figure out stuff too.
The menu and the alien helped it.
I just got back from doing a shoot at the Edgar Casey Ari Institute here and he was just talking about when when he was channeling, he knows how the pyramids were built.
And it's all in the readings. So if you really want to know, check it out.
Interesting check out heygre Casey. Yeah. Now, one conspiracy theory that I've well I'm not sure it was a conspiracy theory, but one theory. One one paranormal thing that you used to hear about all the time you don't hear about any more at all, Like I haven't heard a thing about it in decades, is the Bermuda triangle. Do you remember that?
Oh?
Yeah, yes, happened to that? Did it just like no longer become a triangle.
Or something turned into a circle.
I think part of it is that there's not as much ship travels there used to be, right, but I know planes go down to but yeah, nobody really believes it. But the interesting thing there is on the opposite of the opposite side of the planet. So if you go through the planet, on the opposite side, there's an Asian per metera triangle, so there is really yeah, they're allegedly there's a media triangle.
You mean if you go along the straight long, flat line to the other side.
No, go through on the other side of the globe.
It's flat light flat.
Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry, that's not a globe, it's a flat plane.
I'm sorry, but that was one of my favorite stories because I grew up in Puerto Rico, so I was right on the triangle and whenever we flew from Puerto Rico to Miami, we flew over THEA triangle and it was all exciting. It's like, are we going to make it? We get this, there's this the time when we find out what's happening in the A triangle and then radio silence, like total radio silence. Don't hear anything about it at all.
I think they've done studies where it's not more there's you know, that area doesn't get more plane crashes or about missmissing boats than anywhere else statistically. I just think that they got there's more. There's more press on this on the cases that have gone there, you know, because there's famous cases of like pilots going missing, and we hear the we hear the pilots going missing. So there's a lot of things like that.
Every party needs a pooper.
I thought the area was connected to aliens, like there might be like an alien ship buried deep down and in there right and it's like then they are coming and going and land it's like a landing pad or something.
I don't know.
Well, the new theory now is that the whole hollow earth thing right there, there are portals inside places in the water that that UFOs are coming in and out of. But then apparently there's this whole like you into these caves and there's a whole subterranean world.
I've just seen that Maria is called Godzilla and kin Kok yeah, yeah, that's where god came from.
But we can go down this massive rabbit hole now. But there's even talk about a catastrophic event that's coming in a couple like five ten years or something. Like that, and the government is actually building out these cities, subterranean cities that are going to house them, so that that's how they're going to survive the cataclysm. They're not telling anybody because it can't fit everybody underneath it. So I mean, there's all kinds of stuff that you can look into.
Can I just say that in a future society, they definitely need screenwriters and producers, you know, so somebody myself, I'm not gonna say, you know, somebody like me would be perfect at such a place if anybody's listening. Well, and my family did, My family and my dog, my son, and we all were all needed, right.
Right, totally.
Well, I think you're talking about is a zombie apocalypse. That's what I think you're talking about. That it's going to really happen, that we need to be saved from all the humans are gonna have to play, We're gonna have to hide someplace, And that could be another conspiracy theory, it could be well.
Yeah for sure, yeah for sure. But I think this has something to do with the Sun going nova or something like that. But I also heard along the same lines that this is why so many alien abductions are starting to like ramp up because first and foremost, we've talked to people who say, there are hundreds of different
alien races. There's a whole galactic federation that is watching over us, and they're just poised waiting that if we can't ascend ourselves and help ourselves, and they're going to at the last minute, they're going to come in and grab us and help us out. Have you heard about that?
Yeah, No, Yeah, definitely, there's always been there's always been that element of especially in the nineteen fifties, there's always been this element of like kind of saving the world, saving their earth, saving us from ourselves. Right, Generally, a lot of like in the past, it was the Space Brothers and Space Sisters, that they're here to help us, that they're here to make sure that we don't destroy
ourselves with nuclear weapons. I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of sim there's a lot of cases with aliens and nuclear sites right where they couldn't like the UFO was flying around and they couldn't do anything about it and all the systems go down and things like that. But yeah, I think that there's always been that element of people who believe that the UFOs are good.
But my personal belief is I remember what happened during colonization, you know, in Americas, and for me, like if I saw an alien, I assume it's going to be bad because usually when you have a higher life farm and not the lower life farm, it usually doesn't end well for the lower life warm and unless you just being a cock, from just being like a native American is already tells me exactly how how it would be for us. So we'd have to figure out how to be a cockreach as opposed to a human.
Right. No, that's a great point. I mean, I got to ask because you're coming at this from a very here's the explanation behind all this stuff, And that's awesome. That's I relate a lot because that's exactly how I was. But three years ago or two years ago, whenever we started the show. Ways, are you looking for something that's going to surprise you that you can't explain or are you just to the point where you feel you're going to find an explanation for everything?
No? No, you know, one of the cliches with paranormal stuff is that when you look into the paranormal, the paranormal looks back at you. So I'm waiting for that time for the paranormal will look back at me, you know. I mean I've had like paranormal experiences or I've been around that kind of experience, so it's not like I
don't believe. Like, for example, one of the stories from my life is that when my dad passed away, my mom and my dad used to talk about how when you're when one of them passed, they'll tell the others they'll be okay. And so you know, when my mom came home once she was really devastated, she came home and then she smelled incense in her room when she
hadn't burned any incense for a long time. And for those who don't know, Asians, Buddhists believe incense is the way you get from the spiritual realm to our wealth, and so she took that as a sign. And I smelled the incense too, and we don't burn incense regularly, so it felt like a very like real experience, you know.
Or other times when you know you feel connected to people, like I knew my when my dad got sick when I was young, I knew that it happened even though I was far away and I wasn't I had not heard about it, so you know, there their experiences and I felt like, I think I've seen ghosts or been
around ghosts. But you know, I just want to in terms of like all the most of these stories, for me, it's about again, it's mostly it's about that political social kind of what it says about us as humans, because stories are stories are about us and they tell us about who we are, and as a storyteller, that's what's important to me.
So then what about something a little bit more esoteric like reincarnation? Do you buy that?
I love? Those are some of my favorite stories about the people, the children who know so much right, and they know so much about like they have bab ruth swing or whatever. There's a kid who knew had a perfect swing as everybody else, you know, and being a lot of the Asian religions have reincarnation, So I could be I could, I could be convinced that reincarnation could work. You know, I'm not against it. I think it's I think it's as valid as anything else.
And then what angelic beings and spirituality things like that in your wheelhouse or no out of it?
I've always had a strong faith, not in one religion, but a strong faith in general. So I do believe, you know, I think that's probably where the paranormal comes from, is that I believe that things exist even if I don't see it. So, you know, whether it's God or whoever, it's something that I definitely have a strong belief in. I just don't know if it's you know, a certain
religion or one religion versus another religion. And again, even for religion, to me, it's about what it says about who we are, you know, and the rules and laws that they make. It says a lot about what we believe about ourselves and what kind of people we can become.
Well, I absolutely love your show. I had such a great time being on it. I love listening to it because you guys literally make me laugh out loud every time I listen to your show. And I know you mentioned earlier that the people that listen to your show aren't into that kind of thing because you make fun of it. I'm here to tell you that's not true, because I'm into that kind of stuff and.
Still love your show.
So just don't count yourself out. People out there out there, who do have a sense of humor who can take it, so it's all good.
Yeah.
I was talking with some of the other day and kind of telling him some of the stuff that I believe in, and I'm like, oh my god, I sound like a lunatic, you know, like, if you don't think I'm crazy, then I'm not telling you this is the truth, because I was sounded like a crazy person.
But that's part of the fun of it too.
Yeah. No, I mean, I think what makes paranormal fine is that there is no answers right, whether it's right or wrong. There's and I think that's where a lot of people go wrong is that it's like it's either completely one hundred percent truo. You have to believe every single conspiracy and every single thing or everything is completely wrong and nothing could be real. And my philosophy is like, I don't know. I don't know if it's real. I don't know if it's right not real. How do I know?
You can choose for me.
I've got to wrap my head around it could it be? How could it possibly be plausible? And I gotta tell you, I say it all the time on the show Quantum Mechanics changes everything. It's a game changer. It's suddenly anything's possible. So it's a little bit more difficult to discount stuff unless you've been Cody on the show and then he explained.
It for it. Dog comes down to bring.
As a writer, you know, one of the things I know that the real life is always weirder than the stuff that you may make up. And every I teach screenwriting as a couple of colleges and there's always that student he write, They write the paper or the script, and then the note is that this couldn't happen. And then that person's number one comeback is this happened to me, this is my life. And then it becomes really.
On this is real story.
You asked the kids these days, if you've watched the Simpsons, everything that is on the Simpsons show has come.
True in real life.
Right, So if you're a screenwriter or in that whole world, sometimes art is happens in real life or art depicts life.
We talked about time travel a little earlier on. There's a theory that Mett Green, it created the Simpsons, is a time traveler. That's how he's got all those stuff out there.
Makes sense, It makes sense.
I mean, I do believe that there's like a consciousness, right, like like once once you put it out there, all of a sudden, it gets picked. I mean, it's like why GM tree was found. I was created in Americas and Europe and Asia around the same time, right or there's these discoveries at the same time, and it has to be. It can't be that we all discovered at the same time randomly. I definitely believe that there's something
out there. So as a writer, as a creative, when we put it out there, all of a sudden, it could happen.
I have a quick question why zombies, Like what is the love of zombies?
Ripping and guts?
And you know, like I know that there's romance behind it, and I know you write books centered around zombies and I think it's cool, but I'm just curious because it's like I'm a vampire kind of person.
So sorry, but.
I think it's the survival thing. It's just a matter of wanting like whether I could survive or not and being really into kind of that that idea of being able to have a horde of people and can can we hold up in our house and can we can we survive this this this apocalypse, the zombie apocalypse, and what I say to my son and everybody, If anybody takes anything from anything I said today, this is it.
In any kind of world changing event, the number one thing, the number one way to survive is having a will to survive. Is that you want to survive. There's enough food, water, shelter in the market, like we could live meanwhill, we could live in the Vonds down the street, the Safeway down the street for twelve years on the can food. But what's the difference between.
I'm glad you mentioned that because it's just just reiterating the fact that you need a will to be able to survive. You need a will. So keep guys lying when you're making those underground cities and thinks.
Like that, because a lot of people they just don't want they won't want to survive. They just don't want to live. Like I don't have Facebook, I can't go to drive to work, I can't watch TV, I can't go to McDonald or whatever it is. I'm not judging whatever it is. They just don't want to live anymore and they'll die you. And the difference is that you have to want to live. You have to that will will allow you to live. And that's the thing that
I'm really interested in in terms of zombie apocalypse. Yeah.
And for those who don't know the reason why Jelson asked that question because we didn't talk about it, the fact that you you actually write a lot about zombies, Like your debut novel was Roomy and Juliet versus Zombies for example, right, and you've got another more recent novel which called Zombie Run, and you also did Santa Versus Zombies, and you do have a little bit of a track record with zombies.
Yes, I love I mean I love every zombie thing related thing. My wife does has no idea what the hell.
Favorite zombie movie?
Twenty eight days later, Okay.
Do you think zombies could be real?
Coming back to the conspiracy stock, No, I mean it could have happened, right, No, Yes, yes.
I mean it could. I mean it could happen like rabies as an example. There are examples of zombie like viruses and other animal kingdoms, so it could definitely happen. I can't say it couldn't happen, you know, but but hopefully it doesn't.
It'd be terrible In South America.
Yeah, that'd be terrible. But they get in the brains and they make the creatures do crazy things.
Right, you're just validating my husband's reason why he gets to go to Costco and shop and buy and stock everything up, all the stuff you can say that they want to eat, and then they stop eating it as soon as you buy it in bulk.
So, but we're prepared for the zombie apodcalyst.
We're going to live. My family will live off of spam for a long time. We have a lot of spam.
That's stuff that stays around for eight long times.
Yeah, I could last forever. We'll be on the roof eating spam for.
The Yeah, my favorite zombie movie, if you haven't seen it, check it out Trained to Boussan unbelievable of it, unbelievable movie. That's a really good So Goji. Someone wanted to listen to your show, what's the best way? Where can they find you?
They can find an official Official Story on any everywhere you listen to normally listen to podcasts on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and all those great places. Or you can go to our website the www Onnofficialofficial Story dot com and you could get everything there.
And then jobs and if someone's listen to your show. We showed a little bit of your interview skills, but man, you your show is super varied that you talk about all kinds of stuff, and it's like listening to a conversation between people that are really interesting talking with each other. Right, you just come right into it. It's a lot of fun. So how can people find you if they are interested in checking out your show?
Well, apparently we're not going to survive if we don't have a will. It's just so I'm gonna have to get myself a will. But I have a nikky and I have a Yeah, so you can find me. You can find us at Keeping up with Chaos dot and and yeah, so we're on all the normal podcast platforms.
That's a tongue twister.
Yeah.
Now we're going to go ahead and add direct links to all of that stuff on our show notes. So if you're listening to this on the radio and you are looking for the links, just go to Skepticmaneposition dot com and you'll see that on their episode page. Just click it. You'll get gets you a one stop shop directly to Kogi and Joles and guys, Thanks so much for coming on and talking conspiracies with us because this was so much fun.
Thank you for having
Me, Thank you