Exposing Con Artists and Cults Preying on the Vulnerable

All right, Karen, let me ask you this, what do you call someone that mixes Toro cards, functory ancient Sumerian texts, and a corporate BS detector in one person?

Busy?

Busy? Yeah? Yeah, Well, before I started researching this week's guess, I would have said a really confused fortune teller. But noe, you actually get the skeptical shaman. And she's here today to expose the con artists and cults lurking in the WU world while teaching us how to use ancient practices to I don't know, boost your business or out negotiate your boss.

Well, I mean that would be good. Well, since I'm lucky at you because you're sometimes my.

Boss, I'm just gonna say you're the boss. So how does it feel about that? I've actually it actually excites me because I'm thinking she might actually be able to teach me how to use the Toro cards to help me finally win an argument with my boss. But she also has functuay tips to avoid the zombie apocalypse, and that's something that's really interesting. Or she calls it a cosmic rebirth in twenty twenty four, And I mean, who

My name is Will, and I'm garous, and unlike Boulder and Scully.

Both want to believe.

So we've embarked in a journey of discovery.

We've talked to people deeply entrenched in the spiritual and metaphysical world.

We've thrown ourselves into weird and wonderful experiences. I even joined a coven of witches.

And wait, you joined a coven.

Yep, all on the interest of finding something, anything that will prove that there's something beyond this physical.

Three dimensional world we all live in.

This is the skeptic metaphysicians.

There.

It's Will just stepping in here for a second ask you for a favor. See, the main reason we do this show is to help others in their spiritual awakening, and nothing makes us happier than to hear or read messages from those that are resonating with the messages we're sharing on the show. So if you have a moment.

I like that. I do feel short.

Well, this is the perfect episode for you. Then tell if you've ever wondered how skepticism and spirituality can coexist. Rachel has the answers. Get ready for a conversation that's equal parts practical, profound, and downright fast nading. Welcome to the show, Rachel. How are you today?

I'm much better and I have to take you guys with me everywhere.

We do offer a service where we record our voice, our interests. We send them to people. If you're interested, we'd be happy.

I'm going to carry a boom box on my shoulder and just play that because you make me sound a lot more dynamic and awesome than if you could see the reality of what the skeptical Shaman is.

It would bum you out.

It's days in sweatpants, making tinctures, answering emails.

It's I was gonna say, in a lot of little bottles.

A little bottles. It's not the sexiest stuff all the time. But yeah.

We did mention a couple of mic drops in the introduction, and you just dropped the first one. Want wall like, how do you go from there? We're suppose just supposed to be exciting and a good and uh not hour, Rachel, No.

Not a bummer.

It's just it's it's it's interesting. Have you guys ever had the experience of it's through the looking glass moment?

For me?

Once someone introduces you and lists you know, you're like, what does that sound like?

All those things? And I was like schizophrenic on the bus.

I like that better than a crazy fortune teller.

Yeah, I mean it's it really is something, and it's funny because it sounds very disjointed and it sounds like a series of contradictions, just like the skeptical Shawman. I picked that moniker for my podcast because I knew it was going to confuse people and if something confuses them, it intrigues them, and it's not a contradiction actually, And you know, skepticism and spirituality are inextricably linked because I think skepticism is inherently curious and there's energy there about

I thought I knew everything.

I was like, oh my god, these you know, closed minded fundamentalists and these superstitious, magical thinkers. And then I had an experience that challenged that, and I knew if I didn't invite that data. And I was just disclosed minded and fundamentalist in my atheism as I saw the religious world at the time. And I always joked that that atheism, I think is a natural reaction to Catholic school, including college. Right.

I kicked out after two weeks of Catholic school, So I wouldn't know if all Wow filed that bill, but.

Several of my family members got kicked out of Catholic schools. It's a badge of honor, it's a very special merit badge.

And I joked that I, you know, like I used to back in my snug atheism, say I got out early on good behavior, like it was prison or something. And I'm not Catholic. Now obviously I'm a shaman. But it's been a real adventure and a real journey. Yeah, and it was fueled by skepticism and curiosity.

Frank Rain, Well, the first hint that I got that you were something different was when we first saw you. You were not wearing feathers and bringing sat Before we started recording, we talked about the difference between skepticism and pragmatism or cynicism. It's important to note the difference, right, Yes, the name of our show is a skeptic and physicians for a reason. We always talk about the fact fact

Right.

So I think it's the same with you.

And nothing that I do is faith based, which again sounds nonsense to people. I say, it's direct experience and evidence based. Now that evidence isn't pure review, quantitative metrics evidence.

It's quantitative.

Yeah, thank thank you, And I'm humped about research that's happening and it's it's really getting interesting. But yeah, when I work, like I have a spiritual transformation coaching program and I work one on one with people, and one of the things we do is gather what I call data, and that data is immersion, it's experiential. And then then we go and we do research and then we test things.

Yeah?

So would you say though that, I mean, it's not faith based, but you have to have faith to believe in some of the outcomes of the testing.

I don't I go in faith as in like yeah spiritual. Yeah.

I don't mean like yeah, like a religious faith, but just a belief. I mean, I think it's true for me.

It's more I'm open minded to the possibility and the data.

Better impress me.

For me to pay attention to it, and then and then you know, I almost get belief and I go to knowing. That's kind of the word I use like I know that that was a real experience for me, and I think that that's unique to every individual.

What you will know is like your thing.

And I don't think there's any way to convince another of a arcane spiritual experience you had, right, you can tell him about it, but it's.

An very interesting point, so that I'm dying to find

It's creepy. He gause, cool with creepy, creepy?

Okay, great.

So I was working at a global real estate company in my early twenties, living in a studio apartment in what's called the Lincoln Park neighborhood, Chicago, and.

It was full of interesting characters.

Shall we say it's buildings full of studio apartments generally are and I'll leave it at that. I am happy to be out of that building now. And I had

Check the lock in the door before I went to bed.

And I remember being a little uncomfortable turning my light off to go to bed that first night, second night or second day rather, I wake up and there's people starting to gather outside of that department building and they look like they're related to the wife, and I go, oh, she's like having a family visit or family or union family in town.

It's Chicago. People have family come stay with them and go see the city.

Right. And that night when I went to bed, much creepier feeling. And again, I'm an atheist. I don't believe in anything, despite having tons of experiences in childhood that I had since dismissed.

Is like a.

Psychological reaction of my parents' divorce. You come up with all these really clever excuses and explanations. And I slept with my light on that night, and I hadn't done that since early childhood. Now the third night or the third day, there's tons of people in the hallway and whatever, and I was like, I don't even know it's on anymore.

I got to get some sleep tonight.

So now now the it's starting to building tension, right, And I'm laying in bed and I just didn't want to go to bed. And I'm watching TV and I my light on and I look over and I see a man's face. And what's weird of that is he wasn't like beautiful as inattractive to me, but I was, you know, like beautiful like a statue, like a marble statue on the loof saying, like a perfect looking being.

Hilarious. I started saying a Hail Mary.

I was like if there was a time, just instinct or conditioning, programming, who knows what. And I felt it exit my mouth and I looked around me in every cabinet door and this studio Perman had all of these little doors and little French glass doors and cabinets. It was actually really cute. They were all open at precise and I need degree angle. And I called my mother and I told her what happened, and she said, get out of the apartment. And mind you, it's like midnight,

Of people outside that apartment.

And I said, finally, maybe because I was so banged up and existentially onto logically really in shock, like that happened. That's literal. If that's real, and that's literal, what else exists? What does this mean for the world? I mean, even like sitting in seven eleven and knowing like is this live? We have war, like just a whole thing. And I said, what's going on here? And she goes, oh, I forgot his name. I can't believe I forgot.

His name, but he had died. And she goes, and everybody's coming to see his body. And I go, when did he die?

And it was the night of that creepy the night I started to get creeped out was the night he died. And I instantly just knew again, not believe, but knowing. I said, yeah, whatever that thing was, it was in him, and it was looking for a new host, like a parasite does.

I just knew it instinctively.

And I in that following day ran into other neighbors and asked them, like, you know, and by the way, side note, I skipped over. Of course I screamed at them, which is terrible because someone's dead.

But I lost my mind. I yelled at them. I said, a body is in this building. I called the city. I was like, this is like, you can't body was just still.

They a couple three three days. Nobody took it.

I mean no, no, no, because they were coming to visit with him.

I mean, this is like, I don't know what was going on A whole religiously that I'm unaware of. But I talked to other neighbors, like on my floor and other floors. They all had weird experiences, like literally in all different walks of life, and everybody was kind of gossiping about it and nightmares and this is like a real event and that is that. Yeah, Yeah, that sparked

Yeah, we found that to be the case as well. The more we learn, the more we have to learn, the more we realize whatever.

Now you know why that list at the beginning when you introduced me is so goddamn long.

Ah No, But you know what, actually, if I had known that story before, I might have introduced you not the skeptical chaman, but the learer craft of spiritualism, because puzzles and di scavenger and uh, that's pretty that's pretty amazing. Something like that for a lot of people might not jumpstart their exploration and might jump start their rush to a priest. Yeah, all right, back to religion, Yeah, exactly, So how did you manage to go in that direction? Versus the other.

I don't really know.

I will say that as a kid, I was adamant that spiritual things were real and I was very interested in it, and I am would ask, you know, priests and nuns a lot of questions and they just use a lot of thought terminating cliches, right, And so nobody really answered my questions. Nobody wanted to dig into it. It's one of the reasons I refuse to get confirmed, because to me, that's you know, you take a vow when you get confirmed to God, it's like you're getting married to God.

And I was like, but nobody can answer my questions.

I don't really know what's going on here, and so I think a part of me still didn't necessarily feel like that was going to be an authority of information that I could trust.

In isolation, my gym friends with Catholics.

I actually am friends with a Catholic exorcist and demonologist who hates tarot.

Thanks all this is silly, but treats me with nothing but respect.

By the way, is very friendly, very interesting coffee conversations.

Yes, actually they made a movie about him and his life story. His name is Ralph Sarci and there's a movie called Deliver Us from Evil with Eric Obanna plays him, and I think Olivia.

Isn't it sounds really familiar to me.

Yeah, And he's a character you used to be in New York City police sergeant. So he's got a bit of an edge to him. He's covered in tattoos, he's yells, he's got like.

Angry gym teacher energy, which I love.

I have a lot of affection for him, and I'll join some of his Facebook lives and listen to his his you know, sort of messed up apocalyptic Bible study, right, because it's actually interesting. And he's theologically literate in a way that people when I was a kid asking questions were not. And so my thing is, you know, the reason I gravitated to Shaman is a number one I

The source is irrelevant.

So I'll learn things from a Catholic, I'll learn things from a Muslim gentleman.

I'll learn something from an Orthodox.

Do you actually went to spurt us in Chicago learn Biblical Hebrew in part to dig into this stuff. So we are intensely heterodox with that, and there's no elitism about where the information comes from. And I just for me, that's the system that works for me.

But you do a lot of looking into the WO for lack of term, because you don't tolerate the type of WO that is set up just to take somebody's money.

I was blown away by this when I first started dipping my toe into teaching and things like that where you know, because I worked in corpor and I was like, I just assume that where I worked, everybody was like openly a demon and really like money motivated, not necessarily bad way, but that's sort of corporation companies.

That is the case. I did mention they argument with my boss, right, I'm sorry, They say, sorry.

Boss, you know, And I just thought, well, all these people doing reiki or who owned Yoka Studios, they're going to be the nice people, like, they're going to be open and trustworthy and sincere, and they're going to have integrity because they have these incredible tools and they're like me, and they're pursuing true massive naive assumption. You know what they say about assumptions. It makes an ass out of you and me. And I was blown away by how

It really started from right back in the day, when hey, you've got a curse on you, let me go.

They still do that. They still do that. A client told me she had that experienced last week. By the way.

Yeah, I mean, people get they get afraid and they can't explain things, so they need a reason, and a curse or spell or evil eye or something can be a reason. Then it'sake advantage of that.

It's the typical story of praying on the week, right the people that to this day, my mother about a year ago, got I'm putting over your shoulders, Yes, yes, your shoulder had She got totally conned. Someone called and said that her nephew was in jail and this is the only way to get them out, and all the kind of stuff, and she totally fell for she's in her aise for God's sake.

So tens of thousands of dollars.

Yeah, so it's no different, right, if you're seen as someone in need or weak, then it's easy to take advantage.

Unfortunately, well when they're getting incredibly sophisticated. So it's it's moving outside of the neon sign, fortune teller nine hundred numbers, psychic kind of world. And I don't know how familiar you are with Nexium, the cult from Upstate New York. Keith Rnary's serving one hundred twenty years of jail.

That was only where the yeah do nextion?

But but people who might be listening may not, so you want to sure.

So there's an excellent HBO docuseriies called The Vow about Nexium and Keith Nary was the leader of it. He's serving a lengthy sentenced think goodness for a very good reason. If you watched the documentary series, don't you'll think it's not long enough. And that wasn't super wo, it wasn't fringe. It was actually personal development using NLP to overcome limitations, and it was one of their main subcompanies.

Was called Executive Success Programs.

So these you know, I was in corporate, we had executive coaching, team building three sixty review processing is so this is not fringe stuff.

And he didn't go for the week in the vulnerable.

He went to the strong and the attractive because he knew that they would run his cult well and they would.

Be good recruiters.

So people like they're now my friends. But Bonnie Peace, who was in Star Wars movies, she played Luke Skywalker, is aunt Beru and she's in the Obi Wan Kenobe series. He wanted her and her husband, who directed what the bleep do we know? The documentary about quantum mechanics.

Thank you.

So I'm interviewing Mark who's the creator of that movie next week on my podcast.

He well, he'll come on because he'll talk to you.

He just I think he's in post production for a documentary called Empathy not included, about narcissistic abuse and course of control in the world. So it's it's gotten some polish to it now that old grift of like I'm going.

To help you you have blockages.

They're using terms like spiritual technology, psychological technology, science, the science and joy was a phrase that they trademarked in Nexium. So what I would say too is you only need two people to be in a cult, you only need one unethical life coach and use some numerologist. It's all over the place, and as the economies contracted and inflation's gone up, a lot of people have wanted to get in the game.

Yeah.

Well, it's not to say the Church of Will is not a cult. I'm just saying there are two. There are two of us.

I love it.

Yeah, well, then how does someone figure their way out round that? I mean there's so many.

Yeah, how can you tell? Yeah, someone's taking you for a ride.

This is what inspired my podcast because I wanted to talk to ethical practitioners so people could hear what they sound like and different modalities that also talk to people like Bonnie Susan Doones, my friend Abigail, who left scientology when COVID hit.

Being on zoom broke the spell for her.

Yeah, it just shook up the routine because I don't know, cults keep you incredibly busy and so distracted, so you don't.

Remedy is making a career out of assaulting scientology. So I love what she's doing, what she wants while she's still doing it now.

But well, el Ron Hubbard, people don't realize the study the LIMA under Alistair Crowley.

And l Ron Hubbard is a science fiction writer.

Yeah, I will practice in his books magic.

Well, in his books he talked about the best way to control people is to create a religion, and he talks about it in his books well.

And what sparked it is he wanted therapy. He had mental health issues when he was in the military and they denied him.

So he hated psychiatry.

I mean, it's all you know when you start to peel back the layers and look at this. So I talk about on my podcast, I post about it at length on my substec This is my favorite thing to write about. Like I just watched Breath of Fire about Guru Jaga, a documentary series about more bullshit and yoga on HBFL and I'm like curiously typing and yelling.

At the TV.

But a couple just easy bullet points for people that I think are manageable. One is, no practitioner should ever just use a fake, made up name like Keith Henery made everyone in the cult call him Vanguard. Now, this is different from a nom de guerre or a pen name like my friend Rebecca host Saxon City podcast. Her joke sort of name is card z be because she reads tarot cards.

But everybody knows.

You can just look on her podcast information, first name in her last name, right, so you can look her up.

Has she been convicted of fraud?

Yes?

She run MLMs before you like, so it's a way to look into people. And then the other piece about the made up name, especially like in the Kundalini yoga community, like what this documentary Breath of Fire was about, is a way to subconsciously get people to elevate you to like an ascended being status. So you're not Katie anymore, You're Guru Jagat. You're something other than yeah, than this human, this fallible human named Katie, right, and it ships in

Right.

Yes, you should never leave a session, whether it's life coaching, yoga, tarot card reading, anything like freaked out, feeling like you need to come back, you know, that sense of urgency, of that latent pain.

You should work with people that leave you feeling better. And the thing they do works, it should last for a while. I'm kind of fair.

I don't let clients read book tairo reading. If I see them book a month after I just read for them, I cancel it and I email them it's too soon. You need let this unfold. You're going to get all the same information and you're gonna get confused. And usually when people do that, it's because they have anxiety. And booking with a psychic is not a heuristic you should be seeking to abate your anxiety because we're not mental

That's it. That's it.

And there's no structure where I don't people that do my coaching programmer do I for it's a joke name, but also kind of not business of blu mentoring. Whatever money you make, whatever business you start, that's yours. I have nothing to do with it.

Go be happy. Then you don't have to give me Reddit or like say, oh.

And thank you, you know, to Guru Rachel, it's like, I have nothing to do with that.

That's your creation.

And so yeah, just someone who's just working with you, and what they charge is just an even exchange for a very defined scope.

Of services that they have expertise in.

And one thing I would look at is there's a seeks safely dot org, great organization with tons of resources. Their relative died at that sweat lodge run by James Arthur Ray, the guy who did the secret.

You know, was on Oprah, and.

So they started that foundation, and just check into that if you want more detail.

Yeah, and then what about finding a good practitioner? Is that a source or like, what how do you recommend if someone they're looking for something, I want someone who's an energy healer, where do they go?

Skepticmaneposition dot com.

Well, what's not exact, But yes, I'm talking about it's.

It's weird because I don't know that there are any black and white guarantees.

Right because you could get.

A referral from a friend that you think is really good at discerning and it's weird for you. And also, by the way, just because someone's ethical doesn't mean they're a good fit for you, Like I'm not everybody's cup of tea, right, So there's.

All of that.

I would say, go to Yelp number one and go to the filtered reviews.

Wait, look at theirs to road reader review practitioners.

I've been on there since twenty eleven.

Yeah, so go on there, but don't just wrong look at the reviews that are visible. Go to filtered reviews because they there's a whole rumor, and I have to say that for legal reasons, that you can spend advertising dollars with Yelp and they'll help you move on savory reviews to a certain category.

I might have heard the same rumor somewhere along the line.

I have not, and now I have.

You know, you know destructive gossip can be. So I'm glad we're defining it that way. But also I won't spend advertising money with them, and every time I say no to them, they filter my good reviews. So if you go to my filtered reviews for Total Reading, it's fifty five star reviews that are invisible, so you can do that. The other thing would be, you know, talking to people getting referrals. But also one of the other reasons I wanted to do a podcast is it's long form.

Go on their website, look.

Around and just if it's like if there's something charmed jewelry like magical amulets, probably a no, you know what I mean.

Or even if they're just on the podcast to promote their book or their if that's all they're talking about, that to me just is like a bit of a flag.

It's also a bad way to sell things. So it's they're totally shooting themselves in the foot. If you're just having normal organic conversation and people like what you have to say, they're gonna look into you and what you have to offer. Absolutely, the hard, hard cell was over a long time ago. Even in corporate people do not do that in the business world.

Coming from the branded content world, production world, I could not agree more with that. That shape is sailed unfortunately,

To Yeah, one thing I would say, so you can. There's a great podcast called The Dream that digs into MLMs for like four seasons. And also she had the little come to Jesus moment where she ends up getting a life coach who's sweet and sincere and she has to kind of like take the white pill instead of the black pill.

Which I thought was a cool like story arc.

But MLMs, you can. You should never buy inventory. Number one, that's not normal business practice. So if you have to buy inventory and put your own money up at the beginning, big red flag. And the second one is it shouldn't require you to constantly produce content for social media or recruit friends and family. The recruitment thing is a problem. That's how you know you're in one problem.

And that's how I recognize it. Right when she started talking about that, and she wouldn't tell me who it was or what the company was, but just meet with my coach from the UK. Just meet with him for a half hour. Sure, get talk to me about what the opportunity is, and then maybe y'all meet with your coach. But no, no, no, no, you got to you got to commit to Jesus.

Have you seen the meme of Ben Affleck like this, yes, smoking a cigarette and Alley. I have one that I send people who try that on me, and it just it says, hey, can.

We get on a quick call?

And I send it back to them and that's my response to their nonsense. It's like, if you can't define your value proposition to tell me why I should spend my time with you, like what it is, I'm not showing up to the call.

It's not right right right right, yeah, one hundred percent. And Rachel, I need you to send me that meme because I need to start doing It's.

A good I am a real meme person. So if you open that.

Door, no, you're actually more nice, You're not mean at all.

Then when people get into the inner sanctum with me, I mainly my love language is memes at this stage.

Of my life.

Yeah, all right, we need to take a quick pause,

We're heading into the Wood Snake now five?

Yes, good god? Okay, Well you said it's more of a cosmic rebirth than a zombie apocalypse. I want to get dive into. Yeah, that for us because it sounds very intriguing.

So I love zombies.

Well, there's a zombie component to it, it's just not literal.

It might be as creepy though a little bit.

Yeah, So the Wood Dragon year, Dragon years in Funchuei and Chinese astrology are years of revolution. And then so when we were having the Wood Dragon year, I'm not a Western astrologer, but my friends are, and they were like, you understand this correlates because Pluto is moving into aquarium at the exact same time, and the last time that happened were the American and French Revolution.

And I was like, so we.

Were getting it from both hemispheres of the astrology brain East and West. And you know, dragons are big on meritocratic things, on big change, not incremental change, like rapid major transformation. And wood element is associated with trees or living things. So a wood dragon year is symbolized by a redwood. It just grows and grows and grows and grows. It doesn't care who it defends. It's not trying to

And I was like, here we go, wood dragon snow.

With all that wood growing, growing, growing, like rapid growth, there's change fatigue, There's rudeness fatigue, there's political discourse fatigue,

And it's it just going to be about releasing old things.

Uh, there's a Chinese astrologies this wild stuff around like flying stars of the air, and it's it's a totally different kind of astrology. But they have a lot to do with greed and not like in bad grief, but like letting things go, processing things, releasing that which no longer serves us, letting old systems die. Maybe you got laid off, you know, and you have to grieve that cycle of your life. Maybe you got divorced. In the Woodragon,

So then you're saying, no, no revolution is coming, No new American revolution or civil war or anything like that is coming.

I don't I think the revolution happened. It just didn't

I think it's gonna get weird.

And in particular, I think the UAP phenomenon is really going to perforate the mainstream. I really do, yes, And I think, you know, boomers are going to be talking about it. I think it's going to be undeniable. But I don't I just don't maybe on missing the mark. I just don't see the the rights and the streets. We may have a little bit of it because it's plan on. Earth is a big place, a lot of people on it.

But yeah, you know what from your mouth to wherever universes. Yeah, because yeah, yeah, we've got a daughter and we need to make sure this planet is good enough for her to live through. So yeah, yeah.

I think the Wood Dragon we're past the bulk of it being really intent, you know.

Yeah, Well, it's interesting because we've heard differently. We heard the twenty five is supposed to be the year where settle in because it's coming right, and then after that things will settle in after that, But one more year is what they're saying.

Yeah, what happens If everything just kind of.

Works out, then yay.

Well, and I think though it'll be psychologically and emotionally a challenge year for people who maybe haven't like challenged their own perception of reality. Right, So in that way, internally, that's more a snake thing. It's a little more in and you know, you processing or integrating what do aliens if they're real? What does that mean for me, either as an atheist or a Catholic or you know whatever.

If you listened to the show long enough, you know I am ready to see the UFOs, the UAPs, but not the aliens. So we just keep your distance. And I'm good. I mean I do. I'm hoping that the UAP disclosure happens now, like I'm ready for it.

I think it's good for us, but I think it's going to freak people out a little bit.

And I think that's what you're saying. That's why the government has been keeping it closed mouths right, because it didn't want to cause a panic. But I think we're ready.

I do.

I really think we're ready.

Well, I feel like kind of what you're talking about, there's going to be you know, more belief for openness, for Ajuveda and things like that. My concern is like the opposite. I feel like we're going to go well while people are, for lack of better words, you know, waking up to all of this more rapidly and more and more. I feel like there's going to be something trying to shut it down.

Oh yeah, absolutely, you know, Oh yeah, But they're whatever magic you know, quote unquote they have is thinging rapidly, and I don't know if like they're not making the proper sacrifices that the heman grow.

What's going on, but it doesn't have the umph on it that it used to. So I'm I'm cautiously optimistic. But also, as shamans are, tolerance for effery if a little higher.

Than other people. So I'm like us yourself.

By the way, yeah, keeps our family friendly rating on Apple Podcasts, but.

I do what I can and yeah, but so to you know, what's maybe like I'm very open to and I'm chill about may not be the same for other people. But I don't think we're going to see the wood dragon has a lot to do with political revolution, would snake has a lot to do with like more social psychological reframings. And we're now an age of aquaried It's.

Beautiful, beautiful, that's hoping for I'm hoping for beautiful because we could use a little bit of beautiful in these days.

And by the way, I'm not known for my cock eyed optimism, trust me, so well, good.

Well, I gotta I gotta say, Rachel it Actually it's nice to hear some optimism from someone who calls herself the skeptical shaman. It's a nice brought the fresh air, especially because you've been looking so much into the colts and the garbage inside the woo and all that kind of.

Stuff, And I like how you temper. There's going to be a little bit of everything in anywhere. It's either one way or the other. From a lot of our guests. Now it's going to be greater, now will be terrible. There's no in between. But this is kind of like, Okay, this is going to happen, but there'll be some of.

This well, I mean, and I think it is. A lot has to do with the fact of your own perspective. Right, we create on reality, So the perspective is going to guide you. If you're feeling the world is the sky's falling, well, hell, that sky is going to crush you. But if you look at it from the fact fact that, well, now it's uncovering something else on the other side of the sky maybe.

And also, if we all find out, let's just say that our government is allowing UAPs to abduct people or mutilate cattle, that'll be really upsetting to some people. I'll just shrug my shoulders and go, yeah.

I know, you're right. However, along with all things, you hear that that whole abduction thing was actually a governmental cover up to trying to make people scared of aliens, and there's a faction says that aliens are here to help us, and oh yeah, and.

They're they're doing the same thing that everything in religion and wound does, which it's one extreme or the other.

They're all good, they're all bad. They're here to save us, they're here to do the us.

And where Shaman's come from is it. It's complicated. That's our constant status. My relationship with spirit is it's complicated. And I think there's all manner of flora and fauna things that we don't perceive with the visible band of life that we have as humans or here people with extra sensory perception pick up on some of it some of the time, and I don't. I'm never going to pretend to know what the hierarchies are, with their political

Yeah, we need to take a quick pause, but we'll be right back right after these messages and now back

Absolutely so. I own a spiritual practice called Totem Ratings. It's been around since twenty ten and I had it part time off the side of my desk when I was in corporate.

I do it full time now.

Seeing COVID seemed like a good time to just jump in to the maelstrom, a kite and a hurricane. And you know, I make flower essences. I have a garden in the backyard where I grow everything from seeds. I make all these myself. They're all organic. My husband's a chef. He would never tolerate chemicals or poisons out there. And in terms of the work I do, it's either one on one kind of one off sessions with clients or

Like they know they do it, or they're curious about it.

And a lot of that's just showing them that they have a special skill that can be a value in the world and they can get paid for it, and how to structure that. And I don't make anybody psychic. I don't give them that. I'm not, you know, it's not hogwart. I can't do that. I'm not the sorting hat either, right, I'm a little bit more of a Snape figure.

Actually, Snape was a hero at the end.

Cranky people always surprise you in good ways.

It's the one.

Motto that is my new motto. Cranky people, creepy, creepy, cranky.

Cranky he was. He was always just cranky, curmudgeony. Yeah. I think he played that up.

I think that was you know, yeah, yeah, and Alan Rickman was such an amazing actor.

I love.

Loss, but yeah, I love working with clients and the coaching and mentoring work. I do it all one on once. There's no group work. Nothing's economy of scales. Everything gets tailored to me, like I like making things hard on myself. Oh, my therapist will have to figure that one out. That's above our pay grade here. And yeah, I just I love showing.

People that, you know, spirituality in the rest of their life.

They don't have to be disconnected and if they want to explore this, they don't have to start wearing matching outfits, you know, or go vegan or any of these things that they're told that they have to do, because I don't care. I don't care what your lifestyle is. I don't care what your religious beliefs are. If you want to get into this, I'll shirpay you up the side of the mountain.

Can you help those that don't have any powers whatsoever but have a podcast that talks about powers all the time.

Absolutely, Oh, we're on board.

We're talking yes, yeah.

And you know, even just things like meditation, as silly as it sounds like shamanic journey, meditation puts your brain into a data wave state, which is really good for neural pathway redevelopment and neural plasticity. You know. Learning about microdosing, you don't have to go to Mexico and take a big dose of yahuasca to benefit. It helps of memory retention, learning languages, learning music, all of these things.

I've been actually very called to look into microdosing, but I thinking more about microdosing south Hyban is what is called.

That's what I do, yes, offline, Yes, and it is.

I have a PTSD diagnosis, and you know, it's pretty pretty rough there for a little while. I don't know if you guys know, but COVID wasn't in downtown Chicago. Wasn't that much fun if you have OCDNPPS. Yeah, And so between shamanic journey, meditation and micro dosing, I'm effectively asymptomatic. And it's also whatever it's done to my neural pathways.

And we've talked about that with different guests we've found on the show. And it's not just those folks, it's not just PTSD folks, but in general of people, it actually helps them to ground in a very profound way.

And flower essences are on the other they don't grow in the darkness. They're not mushrooms, they don't do that. They're much gentler, you know. But they effectively imprint plant medicine like herbalism onto you.

And this is old.

I I have not innovated an ounce of this work. It's what they used to do in Europe five thousand years ago. It's what Chinese medicine a Ierveda's based in just different plants. Because by the way, I study European arbalism to say, I'm not that smart and hard words. Well now other languages, man, I was like, this is tough enough to memorize. I don't like ashradanga, gol angle. I'm not let's just do mint time hard willow bark, Yes, I'm here, and so like, there's a lot that can

And you don't have to get weird.

You don't have to start wearing crystal jewelry or your point like the feathers and the whole affectation aesthetic. You don't have to do that. You can be you and find what tools in this world worked for you and neither the rest.

I got to jump in, man, you do you do? I have too many questions?

No, and I do too.

So we talked and this is kind of a slightly different topic before the interview started. We talked a little bit about testing that you do so that you've got proof that helped you know things. And I will know about the testing if you would share a little bit now with us.

Yeah, and again not pure reviewed, not truly scientific. But right now I have two, you know, spiritual transformation coaching clients that are actually scientists, like hard science scientists.

One is an archaeologist out in the field.

The other one is doing research on bird diseases, specifically like chicken diseases, things like bird flu and Merik's disease. So there are hyper rational people that are really into that you know, can.

Test, hypothesis, verify, falsify world.

So what we'll do is immerse them initially into shamanic journey meditations, direct experiences, and are to collect ephemera, take notes, share the notes with me, I explain like here's the context for that, based on what Michael Horner had to say about it, like these subject matter experts, right, And then we keep going with practice sessions meditations and get very quickly discover if they have a latent talent for

So that's sort of it's way.

Looser than science. I don't confuse the two. But my clients that are hardcore scientists. Others are fundraisers, political parties, lawyers. I've had multiple surgeons and doctors in here, and they'll get into things like remote viewing because.

It's really rigid and there's like.

A very uniform, repeatable, testable system. I don't do remote viewing, but I set them up with people who do, and they have fun with that. Yeah.

If you don't know what remote viewing is, go back and listen to the metaphysical moment that where I dive into remote view It's super interesting, so.

Interesting using the science of this. We interviewed someone who is a channeller and she's working with Is he a brain surgeon? Yeah, and he did scans.

Of he's a brain researcher.

Oh, I would love.

To get scans of my brain for a number of reasons. If you guys have that information, please share it.

Happy to realize.

Yeah, yeah, he did scans of her like oh wait, just talking, yes, and then sleeping and then channeling.

And then healing. He did a couple bunch of different ones and you could definitely see a change in her brain patterns when and you.

Can use a flear for temperature like infrared and body temperature changes with people who do reiki, both the client and the practitioner. You can actually visually see a number of these things.

Yeah, so things like that kind of show you this is real. Stop, this is not just woo that you're taking on faith to your point. So I'm a reiki practitioner and I couldn't believe it at first, but until I felt it. When I got, I mean, you go, you get, you get tuned or whatever. You're in a dark room and someone's doing crazy things over your head and you come out and you're like, I feel nothing different. But then the minute you start channeling the energy, Wow,

The more often you do it, the more often. One of the reasons I emphasize practice and like practical immersions so much is you'll start to learn a feeling that comes with it, like a set of distinct physiological ships, ships in your visual field, your auditory fie, like all of these things that tell you I'm doing the thing. And the more you do it, the more of a hand feel you get for it. And I think in

Yeah, really interesting because when I do, when I give reiki to somebody not six months ago something like that, went to a reiki retreat again for the first time maybe twenty years, and it just all came right back. It reminded me of how much I loved giving reiki, and yet I haven't done it since. So it's a matter of just making a decision and moving forward it because it is really probably when I'm very strong.

I mean, he's it's like when we were dating it we were watching TVA seting on couch one time and I had hurt my foot, and so he's like, oh, break your foot. And I don't even know when the last time you had done it, but we're watching television and I had a time of like, you're pushing down on my foot too hard, and he's like, look at me, and his hand was not touching, not even closed, and I could just feel that pressure, wasn't.

Touching at all.

Yeah, I can't believe you just shared that story.

My husband really hurt his ankle and we don't know how but it was black and blue and swum and took him to the hospital, got scans. They said there was no break. But and he's a chef, he has to be on his feet. So this was like a real issue being me being the good WiFi and I said, I'm going to take you to somebody else to do

This is like a very real thing. And that's another thing that, Yeah, you can't do it the.

Way like science does science, Like you can't peer review, publish that. But to me, that's evident.

And that's why I said, yet you can't measure it yet, Yeah, hindline or arts C. Clark or forgot who says it. But magic to a prune, to society, it was just science to someone who's mortgage.

Well, and that's why they were doing these brain skins with the channeling, because when she was sleeping it was one her brain scame was one color. The when she was just regular conversation, you could see the activity. Then she she was channeling, which is involves the same you know, mouth movements. It was like she was sleeping.

It was totally different.

Yeah, it was wild.

It was a theta wave state, so lucid dreams and like a shamanic journey or channeling. They look the same in scams and it's wild.

Yeah, Rachel, you, the three of us have got a lot more to talk about.

We do.

We are running out of time, as much as I hate to say that. But if someone wanted to reach out to you and connect you one on one or or learn more about you, what's the best way for someone to reach out to you.

Totemreadings dot com. My email is on there, or you could contact me through a submit form. I'm on Instagram and all social media passive aggressively.

But I'm also on substack and i spend a lot more time on thubstack.

Just because I think it's metior it's it's longer form, so it's the totem Reading Substack.

Check it out and yeah, that's about it.

You can get those little bottles there too, huh oh yeah.

Yeah.

You go to my website.

There's a link to my Etsy shop on there, and it's super easy to get there, just email me and we just do it directly.

Yeah right, But we're going to add a direct link to your website on our show notes, so if you need, if you didn't have a pen, just go to skepticmanephosition dot com, go to her episode page. You'll see the link laden directly in the show notes. There's a lot to unpack about Rachel that we haven't even touched on, so I encourage you to go visit her. This has been so much fun, that way, way more fun than I ever imagined. So thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you, and you guys are really good at this, and thank you for keeping this conversation going.

Thank you.

We love it.

Thank you, we do love it. And when we meet people of like mine, like you, where the conversation just flows away. It did. It's just we're gonna be we're gonna be in touch, we're gonna be stay connected for a long time. So thanks so much for coming on the show.

They do