¶ Welcome to The Site Visit Podcast
Welcome to the Site . Visit Podcast , leadership and Perspective from Construction with your host , james Faulkner , recorded live from the show floor at BuildX Vancouver 2025 . All right , roberto , how are you doing ? Good ? And you , james , I'm doing very well , thank you . So you are co-founder of Flowly , yes , and you are making AI agents . That's right .
¶ AI vs Automation in Construction
Very cool .
AI agents for construction , nice . And so , yeah , I wanted to chat with you a little about . I mean , I'm obviously fascinated with where AI is going , so maybe we can talk about some specifics there , yep . So first of all , how do people distinguish between AI and automation ?
I think automation is more a set of steps that are executed , but there's no leeway for it to deviate . So if one thing breaks , then the automation stops there .
I see .
AI gives flexibility to that automation right . So even if you find an edge case , it will find its way around and execute it . So it's doing a little bit of thinking , if we can call it that way , but it's just finding its way through . So it's more open to automation . To just tell it this is where we start , this is where we end .
You figure out the in-betweens kind of I see , okay Now .
So we've seen like big startups , like makecom , you've seen that Yep , where you can basically plug in Zapier does the same thing . So building agents to be able to do a number of different sequences to pull data from one source , crunch that data , then spit it out to another one and maybe do a loop of that .
What other industries are you modeling some of this from ? Is there other industries that are doing great things with this ? Are you modeling some ?
of this from . Is there other industries that are doing great things with this ? I think one of the first ones is marketing , and I think it's where the initial LLMs really
¶ Industries Leading the AI Agent Revolution
shine . They were able to write a lot of marketing copy and then create images and now creating videos . It's an easy way for someone to kind of automate their marketing teams . So I think marketing is one of those industries that's been really good . The other is the whole sales side .
Sales automation yes .
BDMs , bdrs , sending emails , even calling people the voice . Ais are getting so , so good that in a few years we're not going to be able to distinguish an AI to a human calling us . So those are the two that I think are taking more advantage of the AI agents right now . Other industries are starting to pick up , but those are the two big ones .
Yeah , so obviously we're looking at , um , how to save time . This is there's uh in construction . We talk about a number of things I mean , robotics gets into this too uh , which is dull , dirty and dangerous , and this is the dull part . Yeah , this is the stuff you're like . Seriously , I gotta go and crunch all this crap .
It takes me hours a I don't want to do this . So initially , we had this transformation from paper to digital . That was like the first thing , and then the next one . Then is that , what do we do with that digital Right ? So this is like the and I think that this is where I have an interest , obviously , with SiteMax and what we can be doing .
Thank you In terms of the opportunity there is in order to have people doing more on construction , that is , more critical work rather than the dull work . So this is kind of your mantra is like how do you , how do you get people to be actually working in construction rather than uh on mindless stuff ?
yeah , and I think when , when we started , uh , we were in toronto and we went out to talk with project managers and construction sites and they all said the same thing , which was I'm sitting here in front of a computer all day reading all these documents to try to do something , but I should be outside .
My job is to be outside , not here in front of a computer , but for contracting , whatever , I need to be reviewing all these documents . And that was kind of like the light bulb moment for where it was like , well , the ais are really good at just reading the documents . They don't complain . They can read thousands of pages in seconds .
So can we do something to help there ? So so , yeah , the idea is how can we make people
¶ Solving Construction's Digital Bottlenecks
engage in more thinking activities ? and there's just normal copy pastpasting activities .
Right , okay , yeah . So it's basically alleviating the bottleneck of volume versus consumption of pertinent data . Yeah , okay , Lord's heart . So where do you see this all going 10 years from now ? What's your pillow dream ?
that you think about , when you think of . Where all this ?
is going .
I think what AI and its agents and the way things are evolving is changing the way we interact with software . Before , like you mentioned , when we moved from paper to digital , it was still a lot of clicking on buttons . Right , that was the best we could do at that point with the technology , and that was fine and we all got used to that .
But now these AIs are allowing us to work with technology in a way that doesn't require clicking on buttons , doesn't require changing how we do things . So , instead of us working for the software , the software is working for us , if that makes sense . So , for example , you can have the bot that joins meetings right and writes the meeting minutes For a human .
The only thing they have to do is just click on the accept the bot to the meeting right , the same button they're clicking to accept all the other people who are joining the meeting and from there the AI will take over and write the meeting minutes . It could extract a lot of information , do graphs and whatever you want with the meeting data , right ?
So I think it's changing how we work with technology and so that's going to completely change how we feel about software , right ? So the new generations are going gonna grow up used to talking to an ai right , having having an ai as a friend and things like that .
So they're gonna expect different things when they come to to to work right , instead of looking at things in a computer just asking , asking about to to find some information and tell me or create a podcast with that information , right .
So I think that's where we are , is where we'll be seeing less user interfaces like we use , like we know now , and more interacting like if we were interacting with another human with technology . Oh , interesting .
Okay , yeah , I mean I think you and I see the same thing . That's good , yeah , no , I see exactly the same thing . So as you look around a show like this , you know here at BuildX , like , what are your thoughts ?
When you see everybody selling there , does this seem like an old school method to you in general , people trying to sell their stuff , communicating with each other and because , like when let's just say you have , instead of coming to the show , let's say I have an AI agent , that's like just get me all the information from all the booths , and maybe we need
virtual booths because maybe that's the reason . But some things are physical . There's door companies here . You actually need to feel what it looks like . There's physical things and the physical world is difficult .
But do you think we're going to get there in terms of I don't need to come to something like this for some things and I can just have an agent go and get stuff for me ? Is it really about the repetitive and redundancy ? That's just a waste of time .
That's a good question . I think some parts of this process , yes , but I think what we learned from COVID is we are social creatures , so we very quickly got bored of being inside right . We crave going outside and interacting with people .
So definitely there are things about this process that me sometimes , as an introvert , gave and I would love an AI to take over . But at the same time , seeing someone gives me certain trust that I maybe don't have if I'm just interacting with a website .
So I think that that part that's so very ingrained in humans , the trust you won't be able to to take over with , AI , right , okay , what is so ?
let me ask you this . So , in terms of , let's say that a lot of the , what are the risks of AI in construction in general on
¶ Future Human-Software Interaction Paradigm
the job site ? Is there like a what like the AI ? And construction in general on the job site Is there like a what like the ?
There is a safety element between , and there's obviously going to be safety pluses , as in , benefits , as in can predict more things , et cetera , but there is a consciousness of human beings interacting with other human beings that a human needs to fact check . If you will , you need to actually open your eyes and go okay .
So do you see the dovetailing of cameras and AI replacing that person's having to fact check that thing ?
I hope not , and I think that's the biggest risk People getting complacent and trusting the output of the AI forever .
Isn't that inherent that they're going to do that though ?
I think , yes , they will , and there probably has to be some control systems to prevent that from happening , because we don't want that happening . Maybe in five years , the AIs are so good that , yes , we don't need to supervise the output anymore , but right now it's not there and , by definition , an AI is just predicting the next token .
So , as much as we try to control what that prediction is , we never know what that prediction will be . So that means we always need to check the output , because it's going to be a random output , so there's always still a need for a human to supervise .
So the biggest risk , I think , is that people are just being zombies , accepting everything that the AI is putting out Right and everything that the AI is putting out .
Right . So one of the things that we are experiencing today and this is where I think this is a great conversation- Maybe we need to have some booze or something . So we're in an economy right now where people are in a consumption economy with their phone . So you'll see people spending .
They'll come home from work , they'll spend four or five hours on their phone and they're consuming .
They're not making anything , they're just consuming and the level of consciousness of the consumption is very low and it's required that they find something that tweaks their interest , because when you have so much volume , only some things get through for you to stop and watch that again or whatever it is .
So do you think that this is going to these controls that you're talking to have these controls in place to mitigate the flow ? Like if you , let's just say , old school , you had to go and look through 50 documents and you'd be like , okay , and then you'd do an analysis between them and you'd go what are the trends here ? Put something into a spreadsheet .
You do an analysis between them , you go what are the trends here ? Put something into a spreadsheet . There is an interactive backwards and forwards there for the consciousness of data . If you just give that to me , I might just rely on it , and this is kind of what you're getting at right on .
Do you think that there will become a point of complacency that needs to be mitigated , and I'm just trying to figure out how that . I mean the opportunities in construction are all things that are I mean , everything's mission critical , but some things are less crucial . They're all crucial , don't get me wrong . Everything's important in construction .
But there are some things crucial . They're all crucial , don't get me wrong . Everything's important in construction . But there are some things where you're like yeah well , if we didn't get that right ? you know it wasn't a huge miss , whereas , like safety or something , it's something that gets killed .
So there's it seems like there's opportunity for these controls to get put in place on things that are not so crucial . Right that these ? Controls to get put in place on things that are not so crucial . Right , that are just a benefit to me . So maybe there are things that , well , maybe we're in there . Wouldn't it be great if business ?
Wouldn't it be great if I could get this information ? I can't get it today , rather than I have it today . It takes too long . What about the ? I can't get it ? Yeah , because the efficiency side is going to have risks , whereas if I never had it before , it's a net benefit regardless of what happens .
But do you ? Right now we don't have it because we are not thinking about those things , because we don't have the time to think about those things , we're spending all the time doing the other stuff .
No , I just think it was too arduous and maybe it was coming out of multiple systems and APIs weren't connecting . Zapier wouldn't do it . You know , what I mean . We couldn't get it because there wasn't a method . So , that's what I'm saying . I think that there's some significant opportunities there .
Yeah , and that , I think , would help us take everything to the next level . Right , because now you're seeing things that you were not seeing before . So what does that mean and what do you do with that data ?
So definitely the AIs could be doing that , but I still think people the first thing they're going to go for is the automation of the things they're doing today , and I think they're part of the thing that we need to figure out is how to teach people to do critical thinking .
How can they understand the output by asking questions to the AI to find hey , this number that you're putting here , why is it there ? What is it coming from ? So , trying to understand those things , and how do people learn ? Today ?
They first have to go through that process of being the ones filling in the forms , filling in the spreadsheets kind of understanding where the data is in the PDFs and all those things . But are they really thinking ? Not right ? They're just copy pasting and they're just walking there .
So you start learning once you give that to someone and that person turns back and starts screaming at you because you did something wrong . Right now you're all okay , I messed it up here . So how do we help young people become that person that screams at the AI
¶ AI Risks and Need for Human Oversight
to know that something is wrong Because , yeah , the data inputting is no longer going to be done by a human . So what's the next thing that humans do today after someone filled in the spreadsheet ?
Yeah , it's interesting when you say screaming at the AI , because that can be kind of interesting . It's kind of like , you know , when there's a company that you have a service with and they only have an email address for you to contact them and they're not getting back to you . Yes , it feels like that .
Sometimes you get someone on the phone and you're like what the hell ? Like well , I can't get this thing to do something . So , yeah , so you when you show up in places and obviously you know I want to sort of keep this confidential , but when you show up places and people are like , oh shit , the AI guy's here . Do people think about their jobs ?
Do they see the net positive of maybe their job being easier , or do they see it as a threat ?
I think it depends on who we talk with . If we talk with the people whose tasks the AI will do , they feel threatened by it , but then it's a matter of having them understand . Is it really you and your job filling in spreadsheets , or you're here for more than that ?
So having them understand that filling a spreadsheet is not a high value thing you could be doing . So there are more things . It is not a high value thing you could be doing , so there are more things . But what we've seen change since two years ago when we started is then people started to hear about AI .
They were concerned because all the things that they were seeing in the news is that things are hallucinating , that things are stealing your data . That was everything that was on the news . Now , when we talk with people , they're way more interested , because this thing has been happening for three years now . So more and more of my competitors are using it .
More people are talking about it . So I want to know about it . Maybe not start using it , but at least I want to understand what this thing is and , if it can help me , how it can help me . So it changes and even maybe the people who felt threatened in the beginning now they're starting to see .
Well , maybe this is the way in which I can differentiate myself and the job site yeah , that makes sense , if I take a tool , then I can be more productive , more efficient and my boss will be happier with me yeah , that's cool .
Yeah , I think what we uh , it's going to be one of those things where you see the , the sort of larger companies doing the tech adoption and then sort of moving their way down .
I had a podcast I did in Toronto with one of the guys from Lafarge Concrete Company and he's like the transformation guy and he's doing he's making agents , like you are , for them internally , and so it's an interesting path that we're at . Now . Let me ask you this At what point is making agents agentable ? What do you mean by agentable ?
Well , at what point agentable ? What do you mean by agentable ? Well , at what point ? I mean so to make in order to . At what point can you ask an agent to make the agents like you're talking ? Do you know what I'm saying ? Yes , like , at what point does that ? Because we're looking at that in software in general .
Right , at what point do you get AI to make the software for you ? Well , it's multifaceted in that point , right , because it's complicated-ish , but it can get easier Once one does it . Once , then you can start spitting this stuff out pretty easy , right , it's just the one that's going to be .
So , you know , if I look at Sitemax , for instance , I go okay , well , what AI can just make our whole platform ? Well , not that easy to do today , but once one person does something like SightMax , it's going to be easier and way easier and way easier
¶ Teaching Critical Thinking in the AI Age
and way easier . And then suddenly that's the watershed moment , right ? But yeah , do you think about that in terms of at what point is the action become ? Does it self-cannibalize itself ?
So , for example , if you look at Zapier right now , they actually have that feature now where you describe your agent and it will try to find what's the best way to build it based on what they have right . So that's already happening . But there are two pieces to the agent . One is what is the agent interacting with ?
So if you don't have those integrations , it doesn't matter what you ask the agent , it won't be able to pull the data or push the data . So that's one piece . The second piece is the prompt , which is what makes the agent act .
So I think the prompt is easier-ish to do , as long as the agent , or this AI , is capable of asking the relevant questions and asking for the relevant information to then be able to generate its own prompt . The integration is where it becomes harder , because someone might be using a software you've never heard of and it's going to ask for that integration .
So today you won't be able to do that . So I think that's really where the challenge is , because there is no universal API to connect to whatever is out there , so it won't be something that can integrate with all your tools whenever you need it .
I mean , it's getting , it will get that way , but it's going to take some time , yeah , but yeah , that's pretty cool , all right , well , that's pretty cool , man , um . So yeah , well , you did a good thing at the show here . That's been awesome , and I look forward to having more chats with you . Maybe this is just the first one .
I think it might be , yes , um , but but yeah , we wish you luck with everything and yeah , let's keep our conversations going .
Perfect Love , it All right , well , thank you .
Thank you very much , Bye . Well , that does it for another episode of the Site Visit . Thank you for listening . Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube .
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