[SPEAKER_01]: there and welcome to our show. [SPEAKER_01]: The shit no one tells you about writing. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm best selling author Bianca Marie, and I'm joined by CC Lira of Wendy Sherman Associates and Carly Waters of PS Literary. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi everyone, welcome back to another books with us. [SPEAKER_01]: We are starting off as we usually do by diving straight in. [SPEAKER_01]: CC can you please kick us off with your query letter. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dear CC, years after a tragic event toward them apart, two former best friends finally fallen love, just as the past rises up, threatening to destroy their relationship forever. [SPEAKER_02]: I am writing to Siegrepresentation for how to be good, a dual point of view, accessible literary novel, of 94,000 words.
[SPEAKER_02]: It will appeal to readers who enjoyed the evolving intimacy of tomorrow and tomorrow, [SPEAKER_02]: the morally complex characters in Heart The Lover by Lily King, and the vivid sense of place in the paper palace by Miranda Kali, heller. [SPEAKER_02]: I notice that you are looking for literary novels with morally ambiguous protagonists, as well as dysfunctional families, and I think this will be of interest to you. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for everything you do on the podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have transformed the interiority in my writing in particular. [SPEAKER_02]: Esther and Louie grew up in households where love was conditional. [SPEAKER_02]: So their unconditional love for each other was everything. [SPEAKER_02]: Until at 13, Louie sent their classmate plunging from a cliff. [SPEAKER_02]: Esther wanted to believe it was an accident, but she saw what happened. [SPEAKER_02]: their friendship to our part.
[SPEAKER_02]: One sweltering summer, ten years on, Esther and Louis return to the coastal English village where they grew up and where their friendship imploded. [SPEAKER_02]: Both still live in the shadow of their overbearing families. [SPEAKER_02]: Louis is shamed him into doubting his dream, job offer, while Esther's mom insists she continue the career that's destroying her. [SPEAKER_02]: Rekindly a friendship with one person who truly understands is sweet relief.
[SPEAKER_02]: They become close. [SPEAKER_02]: neither mentions what happens on the cliffs. [SPEAKER_02]: As the heat intensifies, they teeter on the edge of falling in love. [SPEAKER_02]: But Lewis is reluctant to talk about the incident that destroyed their original friendship on Nerves Esther. [SPEAKER_02]: She can't go on without knowing why he acted the way he did on those cliffs. [SPEAKER_02]: But Lewis can only live with himself by suppressing the memory.
[SPEAKER_02]: As summer wanes, he can save their friendship by giving Esther the explanation she must [SPEAKER_02]: Or we'll revisiting the past to destroy the closest bonding ever known this time forever. [SPEAKER_02]: I've been writing for 15 years and have had some success with fiction competitions, including a place on a previously mislexia adult novel competition, Longlist.
[SPEAKER_02]: I currently work part-time as a doctor in Oxford, England, so I can write on my days off, and live on a village at the edge of the Cox Wolves with my husband and imaginary cat. [SPEAKER_02]: We're about to move and get a real one. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for your consideration, Claire. [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome CC. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: What was the word camp there and then tell us you'll take on that?
[SPEAKER_02]: The word count was drum rolls as I am counting as I look at the manuscript, 400 and 28 works. [SPEAKER_02]: On the long side, although I must be honest, it didn't feel like a long query letter to me. [SPEAKER_02]: It's one of those things where you could have a high word count, but the reading could feel like it went by really fast. [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like time. [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes five minutes can feel like an hour and five minutes can feel like 30 seconds.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's so much of it, it's how we feel. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, from the top. [SPEAKER_02]: You're calling this an accessible literary novel and my brain just opened up like 12 different tabs when you said this. [SPEAKER_02]: So part of me's like, wait, but that's suggesting that [SPEAKER_02]: If you don't say it's accessible, that literary fiction is inaccessible. [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know that I like that. [SPEAKER_02]: Part of me's like, well, just who cares?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, literary fiction is like all genres, something that's not for everyone. [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe this person's saying that, you know, it has crossover appeal to readers of other categories. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I have 12 tabs open on my right now. [SPEAKER_02]: And I will not go through each of the 12 tabs because that is exhausting. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how I feel about that term.
[SPEAKER_02]: To be clear, it would never dissuade me from reading a query letter or appreciating the pages. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, the point of this podcast is to dissect the query letter, which is what I'm doing, but this would not be something that would bother me if this were a slush file situation. [SPEAKER_02]: Really, thank you so much for your kind words. [SPEAKER_02]: As we record this, I am halfway through my interior decor.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the fact that I have transformed into the interior already and your writing is really, really sweet. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much. [SPEAKER_02]: I loved the disruption. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, the whole, all these two people, you know, they grew up in houses where love was conditional. [SPEAKER_02]: and then they have unconditional love for each other, just let's sing sweet. [SPEAKER_02]: So my brain is going down this road of, oh, this is gonna be a sweet story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, how sweet and then, one of them sees the other, pushing someone off a cliff. [SPEAKER_02]: That is very surprising to the brain. [SPEAKER_02]: The reader brain likes surprises, so that was very, very good. [SPEAKER_02]: I really liked that. [SPEAKER_02]: It made me wonder though, as I finished reading about the plot. [SPEAKER_02]: Is it dual timeline?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't know if there's enough plot in the present daytime line, just because like, okay, they rekindle and then what like we spend However many words I already forgot 94,000 words do we spend 90,000 words or 85,000 words with them just figuring out what happened in the past kind of like rehashing the past. [SPEAKER_02]: It's not that you can't do that in literary fiction.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so many literary novels out there that have very little plot and just tons of character And it's all about the execution. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's not that it's necessarily a problem But something that I'm always on the lookout for is, you know, are there sufficient plot points to I guess keep the reader turning the pages and then if the plot points are the reasons to turn the pages What else is going to be the reason and we talk about that when we talk about the pages?
[SPEAKER_02]: I also really liked the comment about the imaginary cat. [SPEAKER_02]: That was really sweet. [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for sharing [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, CC. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Kali, handing it across to you. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: So I really like this title. [SPEAKER_00]: How to be good? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not entirely sure that I understand how it relates to the rest of the book necessarily, but it is a good title.
[SPEAKER_00]: And once we read the pages, I think it's a bit more clear, but in the query, I didn't really understand the title. [SPEAKER_00]: But it is a good title. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like a little bit torn about it. [SPEAKER_00]: But good titles can get you pretty far, especially at this stage. [SPEAKER_00]: So good job for a good title. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree with CC, like, do we need this word accessible? [SPEAKER_00]: What is it doing, especially so early in the query letter?
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have any sort of word early in the query letter, that can provide an agent with any reason to pause, you really have to think about whether you need that word. [SPEAKER_00]: So if both of us are kind of subbling on that word, that's something to think about. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, dual POV, that's just that both sides, Esther and Lewis, [SPEAKER_00]: What I struggle with about here is everything hinges on Lewis sent their classmate plunging from a cliff.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we get Lewis's point to view about what happens, then we're going to know really early on the crux of everything. [SPEAKER_00]: So the readers kind of getting what they want really early. [SPEAKER_00]: So then what's potentially the point of reading the rest of the book? [SPEAKER_00]: Or if you [SPEAKER_00]: do dual POV and don't tell us till the very end, what was the situation that led Lewis to send the classmate plunging off a cliff?
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you have the reader on the hook for the entire novel and the reader's going to think, well why didn't you just tell me what happened on the cliff? [SPEAKER_00]: So I, Susie, Susie wants to jump in here. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think? [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Wild Dog Shore did it, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like we know, like we have everyone's POVs and we know what happened to Hank from the beginning. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we don't know, but the character knows.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they withhold it, the whole novel and it works. [SPEAKER_02]: So this is just me saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, 100%. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying, like, [SPEAKER_02]: It's so hard to pull off, but it can be done. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, totally agree, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: So hard to pull off totally can be done.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that CC is citing a best selling novel written by very talented author suggests that is such the caliber in which is required to be able to pull that off. [SPEAKER_00]: So I never say that something can't be done. [SPEAKER_00]: I always want to be surprised. [SPEAKER_00]: And I always want somebody to pull it off. [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm just making sure that the author understands how high the bar is here to pull this off [SPEAKER_00]: while keeping a center taint.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a tall order, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And there's no reason why anybody needs to shy away from a tall order by any means, but I can see how this could be a struggle. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a lot of ways that this could fall apart, I guess, would be my main note. [SPEAKER_00]: And also, the reader's going to think, which is a- [SPEAKER_00]: classic love story question, which is, why can't these two just sit down and talk?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like classic love story thing where you're like, what is it that these people can fall in love with each other and yet not talk to each other? [SPEAKER_00]: And literary fiction can do this really well because there's so much of that like cerebral and we're in our own head and it's possible. [SPEAKER_00]: It's all possible, but the fact that this person had accessible literary fiction in the opening line makes me wonder how all of this is going to come together.
[SPEAKER_00]: those are kind of all of the thoughts that are swimming in my head here. [SPEAKER_00]: In terms of the author bio, genuinely love it. [SPEAKER_00]: I have a question about I've been writing for 15 years. [SPEAKER_00]: That part I'm a bit like Hump. [SPEAKER_00]: You've had some success with the fiction competitions. [SPEAKER_00]: Ms. Laxia is a British women's magazine, which I know of. [SPEAKER_00]: Why are the 15 years?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it a classic case of like I want to talk about how I've been writing for so long? [SPEAKER_00]: Or because of my agent, [SPEAKER_00]: casual, hobby, author to wanting to be a novelist. [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder about that shift in the mentality and why now I wonder about a lot of that. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming it's because maybe you were doing your medical training and now you have more time and this is how you want to balance your life between medicine and creativity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are some things I go through my head. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Colleen. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, CC. [SPEAKER_01]: Will you let us know what was in those opening pages? [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have Esther, our protagonist, just thinking, just in her head, dreaming of the surf, the fact that her ankle is hurt that she won't be able to surf, that it's a problem, and then she sees something in her peripheral vision, and she looks, and meters away, there's a pair of women. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm in an orange picnic blanket, and what transpires is that they just got engaged. [SPEAKER_02]: Yay!
[SPEAKER_02]: But, [SPEAKER_02]: They, one of the, you know, the one who got the ring lost the ring can't find the ring. [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, oh my God, where's our ring? [SPEAKER_02]: And Esther actually sees the ring, but doesn't tell them, just doesn't tell them at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she thinks to herself, you know, in her head, to her internity, she thinks that she doesn't have the, [SPEAKER_02]: The gene to be a doctor, she doesn't use the term gene, but to be a good doctor, you have to want the best for people, but she doesn't, she just doesn't have it, and then she goes back afterwards. [SPEAKER_02]: to get the ring presumably or to look for the ring, but the ring isn't there, and then she imagines the women finding the ring.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then she also thinks about the doctors that she works with, Lila and Kimberly, and how they really care about their patients. [SPEAKER_02]: They remember their names and stuff, but you know, Esther doesn't. [SPEAKER_02]: And she really wants to quit, but she has the opportunity to do good. [SPEAKER_02]: as a doctor, so that's her situation. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, CC sounds like a lot of interiority there and you are the queen of interiority, so tell us what you think.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to make something clear before I go on to my notes. [SPEAKER_02]: It's so well written. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's very well written, this person can write very well. [SPEAKER_02]: I did have like some line level stuff that I caught, like some repetition that didn't feel intentional, but it's so minor. [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking copy at it. [SPEAKER_02]: Such minor things. [SPEAKER_02]: very, very, very well written.
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe that I was inside a real person's head. [SPEAKER_02]: I did. [SPEAKER_02]: It is it is incredibly well crafted. [SPEAKER_02]: I think the submission is a really good opportunity to talk about surprise, the role of surprise and storytelling, especially in the first five pages. [SPEAKER_02]: Surprise is essential for storytelling in all elements, including the beginning. [SPEAKER_02]: And here we do have something that's very surprising.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our protagonist finds an engagement ring that these two people are clearly looking for, and instead of picking it up and giving it to them, our protagonist just keeps walking away. [SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't give them the ring, doesn't even say, hey, the ring is here, and that is surprising, because as a reader you expect her to go, hold on, here, let me help you.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, in order for the surprise to truly be leveraged, in order for you to take advantage of this great plot that you included, I need some indication in her interiority of how she's processing this. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not saying I want the full-sum answer about why she's doing this with the root cause and her foundational won't that be too much for the first by pages. [SPEAKER_02]: but I want hints.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what little sprinkles of hints, for example, it could be a thought about how one year ago she would have been on her knees picking up the ring and handing it back to them with a smile on her face. [SPEAKER_02]: But ever since what happened, she can't. [SPEAKER_02]: Bam, curiosity seed. [SPEAKER_02]: Now I'm like, ooh, what happened a year ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or it could be a thought about how she's doing them a favor, how maybe they won't keep being engaged if they don't find the ring because marriage doesn't work. [SPEAKER_02]: So now I know about her, you know, relationship to marriage. [SPEAKER_02]: It could be something completely different. [SPEAKER_02]: But my point is, in order for a surprise to truly, truly, truly be leverage to its fullest potential, I can't just have the character do something that's surprising.
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to see how they process that. [SPEAKER_02]: with some hints that make me curious. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't need to understand why a character did what they did. [SPEAKER_02]: That is not essential in the first five pages at all. [SPEAKER_02]: I do need to have a sense of why they think they did it or what is orbiting around their why. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have to agree with them at all at all, at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I have to have those hazy contours of their reasons at reach so that I can go, hmm, okay, and I'm going to fit all these puzzles together, all these puzzle pieces together, [SPEAKER_02]: person in my head.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so my second note, we have her thinking a lot a lot about how she isn't cut out for this doctor thing, you know, and there are, there's some really insightful paragraphs about this very well written, I highlighted it, our sub-stacks supporters will be able to see it, where I'm highlighting it and going, oh my god, this is so insightful, I love this, this is great, [SPEAKER_02]: Towards the end, there's another reference to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's, I'm gonna read a little bit from it. [SPEAKER_02]: They really care about their patients. [SPEAKER_02]: They remember their names. [SPEAKER_02]: They remember their diagnoses. [SPEAKER_02]: Esther doesn't remember details. [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone seems to have a chest infection. [SPEAKER_02]: And at this point, I'm like, okay, it is interesting that she's the outsider. [SPEAKER_02]: Smart story set up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone else is born to be a doctor in her mind, but she isn't. [SPEAKER_02]: This feeling of being an outsider, very powerful. [SPEAKER_02]: But what does she make of it? [SPEAKER_02]: like I need a little bit more of what she makes of it because this is literary fiction, right? [SPEAKER_02]: And literary fiction, the truth is that since the plot isn't what keeps us turning the pages, it's the depth.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not about moving the story forward so much as it is about moving the story deeper all the time. [SPEAKER_02]: And I need that depth in order to think that, okay, I can spend 95,000 words. [SPEAKER_02]: So again, really strong writing, very, very strong set up.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am I am curious like I did read this and I go huh, I would have kept on reading like good job I do wonder however whether and again, this is why I need to know where where authors are in the process But I do wonder where are you in the whole process, you know like is this like a third draft is this a first step like where are you in your process because if you're early on
[SPEAKER_02]: then none of my notes probably are going to be surprising to you because you're like, yeah, I'm figuring this out. [SPEAKER_02]: But if you're like, I'm querying, then I think that you might be querying to early because I don't quite see the depth in the first my pages, maybe it's it's different later that I would need to see. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, CC. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Kali across to you now. [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the query in the opening pages aren't fully matching up because I was page book that was very focused on relationships and potentially this friendship love story. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I felt like these opening pages, I felt so distant from this character and her the choice about why she chose to walk away from that engagement ring that she saw.
[SPEAKER_00]: She suggests that by watching this potential engagement that, you know, she has these, I don't know, kind of feelings about watching it, whether she should be helpful, whether she shouldn't, but we never really get to the heart of what was pitched to me in the query letter. [SPEAKER_00]: requested the pages, which I sent to my Kindle, which I would read later. [SPEAKER_00]: I would forget what book this was related to, based on the query that I requested.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm feeling like these are very separate concepts, which makes me wonder, yeah, where we are in the process, is this book finished, are we pitching a book that is imagined to be versus the book that it is? [SPEAKER_00]: I have a lot of thoughts about that. [SPEAKER_00]: But coming back to the actual pages that are in front of me. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree with CC, the most interesting point of these pages [SPEAKER_00]: finds the ring, but walks by it, that is incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is like, you know, claps to you. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you can hear me clapping on my microphone. [SPEAKER_00]: That is great. [SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely loved that part. [SPEAKER_00]: That was very, very well done. [SPEAKER_00]: The rest of it, I just felt so distant from her because she still felt so distant from her own life. [SPEAKER_00]: And when you pitched me an accessible literary novel and I felt actually very, [SPEAKER_00]: Far away from this character.
[SPEAKER_00]: I struggled with that a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a classic case of this book was pitched to CC and this book was not pitched to Carly And there are reasons why you pitched different agents for different things because I really like the idea of a complicated love story But what I'm seeing here is really starts off very internal, suggesting to be internal But again, I actually feel very distant from her because [SPEAKER_00]: She feels like she's sleepwalking through her life.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like I'm watching somebody sleepwalk through their life a little bit, which just felt really distant for me personally. [SPEAKER_00]: Classic case of somebody's taste is one way, somebody else's taste is going to be a different way and that's why you pitch different agents, because I think CC could see more of the interiority and the depth that was there than I could see as somebody who reads a bit more for where we're going and the novel in these opening pages.
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are my thoughts. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, now I work from our [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Kali, we're now handing across to you, let's hear your query later. [SPEAKER_00]: Dear Carly and CC, thank you so much for all you do for writers, and somewhere only we know my YA contemporary romance with survival elements, a girl who doesn't believe in love gets stranded on a deserted island with the one boy she tried to avoid.
[SPEAKER_00]: As they fight to survive, she's forced to confront the grief that made her stop believing in love, and the boy she might be falling for, complete at 62,000 words, considering the tropical islands of French Polynesia, it will appeal to fans of Nicola Yume and K. L. Walther. [SPEAKER_00]: 18-year-old Emmy Davis stopped believing in love the day her mom died two years ago. [SPEAKER_00]: If she's learned anything from grief, it's this, letting people in only leads to losing them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if that's the case, why bother? [SPEAKER_00]: So when she heads to a so-specific island for her high school grad trip, all she's looking for is a decent tan, time to herself and maybe a fruity drink with a tiny umbrella, which is not prepared for is fellow hotel guest, Ben Fox. [SPEAKER_00]: A knowingly hot and somehow impossible to ignore, Ben has troubles of his own. [SPEAKER_00]: and yet he's a master at getting under her skin and all the wrong or maybe right ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: She vows to avoid him, but when a snorkeling trip goes horribly wrong, she ends up stranded with him on a deserted island. [SPEAKER_00]: We're allowing on Ben for survival means actually talking to him and trusting him, and she'd rather drink sand than do either, but with no food water or rescue and site Emmie's arms, length policy crumbles. [SPEAKER_00]: As the days stretch on, admits the palm trees and turquoise water their connection grows making it harder to keep regard up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Emmy must decide if falling for him is a bigger threat than the island itself or the only thing keeping them alive and a place that doesn't care if they make it home. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm originally from Los Angeles, which inspired Emmy's hometown setting. [SPEAKER_00]: My experience as a critical care nurse helps shape the physical realities of Emmy and Ben's struggle to survive.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a member of SEVWI and have a degree in English slash creative writing from the University of Southern California. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for your timing, consideration. [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome, Coli. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: What was I with, can't they? [SPEAKER_00]: So we came in at 380 words. [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, so the title, somewhere only we know. [SPEAKER_00]: This is a reference to a song that millennials know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if this is a reference that the gen is going to be gen Z is going to be gen Alpha's reading this yet. [SPEAKER_00]: How older gen? [SPEAKER_00]: Gen Alpha's old gen Alpha's young gen Zs. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know my YA age group at this point. [SPEAKER_00]: But would they get this reference? [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe maybe not. [SPEAKER_00]: Is that important? [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe maybe not. [SPEAKER_00]: It could just be a lovely line.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's completely fine as well. [SPEAKER_00]: So this gets stranded on a deserted island business. [SPEAKER_00]: This requires immediate suspension of belief, which is tough. [SPEAKER_00]: It is not impossible. [SPEAKER_00]: And I actually think you do a really good job at this because we think in the stay in age, it's actually really impossible to be stranded on a deserted island.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, in the Polynesian islands, there are so many of them that I actually, I will get to this, but I actually do believe this story. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I think you did a good job at the suspension of belief, which is good. [SPEAKER_00]: the word count 62,000 words. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot to happen in 62,000 words actually, which I think is a good thing. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm I'm definitely excited to see how much we actually accomplish in 62,000 words.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this I think that's great. [SPEAKER_00]: time period. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't suggest, oh, you just take a temporary. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a contemporary. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to suggest that they have phones. [SPEAKER_00]: Again, which comes back to this whole, would teenagers be willing to put down their phone for a snorkeling trip so that they could end up being deserted.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I think that you do a good job at this, but just flagging, you know, for some people that might be hard for them to believe. [SPEAKER_00]: The hotel guest Ben Fox, what gives me a teeny bit of it is that you don't actually say how old he is. [SPEAKER_00]: You just say fellow hotel guests. [SPEAKER_00]: I [SPEAKER_00]: T is the a teen is a young like low 20s. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, do we need a mage drop here just to [SPEAKER_00]: frame this a little bit better as, you know, whether they're relationally suited. [SPEAKER_00]: Question mark, you know, doesn't need to be answered necessarily. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just plugging that as something that I had a question mark about. [SPEAKER_00]: I think one of my biggest question marks about this query and I actually really like this query is just the tone. [SPEAKER_00]: Is this supposed to be cute?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it supposed to be suspenseful? [SPEAKER_00]: It could be both, but I'm actually not sure about the balance between these two things. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to be a really intense novel, which sounds great, but, you know, should we be thinking that they're not going to survive? [SPEAKER_00]: Or is it a romance where it's a happily ever after ending? [SPEAKER_00]: Because all romance have a happily ever after ending.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just not sure our balance of suspense and happily ever after, and what exactly that tone is gonna be. [SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a lot of cute travel novels, but the fact that they're for days with no food and water and rescue, and then you say in your author bio, your critical, care nurse experience, help shape your understanding of us. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, how dark are we going here?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not sure, I'd like a little bit of a nod to how dark, how suspenseful, you know, in terms of that balance. [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to know that. [SPEAKER_01]: Kikali, okay, CC, your thoughts? [SPEAKER_02]: I was really curious when I read this. [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was a really strong query letter. [SPEAKER_02]: Good job. [SPEAKER_02]: Good, good job to the author. [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't looked at the tiniest note for you, but it's so tiny.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a line that reads, relying on Ben for survival means actually talking to him and trusting him and she'd rather drink sand than do either. [SPEAKER_02]: wouldn't be relying on each other for survival. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, first, as a feminist, let us not say that it is just the girl relying on the boy, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Let's just say that. [SPEAKER_02]: And as a feminist, sees he don't say girl, she's a woman, woman, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: But also, it's not just the fact that she has to rely on him, that's weighing on her. [SPEAKER_02]: It's the fact that he has to rely on her, having to help someone, having to be there for someone is a toll. [SPEAKER_02]: on people as well. [SPEAKER_02]: So actually emotionally speaking, I do think that we should be highlighting, you know, both sides of this. [SPEAKER_02]: It is a very small thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, point of the podcast, I guess, is to to point out all the things, big and small. [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, really good job. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, CC. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, colleague, what was in those opening pages? [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: So we opened with our main character at work. [SPEAKER_00]: She's working at some sort of store. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming, it's a retail experience of some kind.
[SPEAKER_00]: She also seems to work with her best friend and the two of them are kind of chatting as they're working. [SPEAKER_00]: Their shifts almost over. [SPEAKER_00]: They're counting down the hours. [SPEAKER_00]: Her best friend's boyfriend comes in, they chat to them a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: And then her mom, who we know has passed away, her friend comes into the store, which triggers our protagonist to want to just run away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And amidst all this, they're kind of just chatting about their boyfriend's and high school and the trip that she's going to be leaving on tomorrow. [SPEAKER_00]: Ki-Kali? [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what was your take on that? [SPEAKER_00]: Rock place to start? [SPEAKER_00]: I really liked this. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was really strong. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the teen banter.
[SPEAKER_00]: I made a note about the teen banter, because I'm like, I'm like a 38-year-old woman, and I wrote like LLL in my comments. [SPEAKER_00]: So clearly, I'm probably cringe for just typing the words LLL. [SPEAKER_00]: But I didn't really like the banter. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was very teen authentic to the best of my abilities as not being a teenager. [SPEAKER_00]: But I really, I liked it. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was really strong.
[SPEAKER_00]: I liked the interaction between the two of them. [SPEAKER_00]: I really liked the line because she's talking about how her friend, her best friend is a boyfriend now. [SPEAKER_00]: And she says, you know, but she's into him, so I'm trying to be supportive, even though I think it's a mistake. [SPEAKER_00]: Most relationships are. [SPEAKER_00]: I love that she just like, you know, has these strong opinions and she's just like, you know, don't want to bother with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of teen girls can relate to that moment where their best friend gets a boyfriend or like, well. [SPEAKER_00]: don't want to deal with that. [SPEAKER_00]: Overall, I thought I was really strong. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really make a lot of notes.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was really curious by the end about why when she sees her mum's former best friends or mum passed away, you know, sees the mum's best friend walk in, why her instinct wasn't to talk to her, instinct was to run, love that, you know, I mean clearly she's a teenager, and he's feeling all of her feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I felt like this was a very accurate portrayal of a teen experience, and I didn't really have a lot of, you know, in my notes other than, you know, and my cringe for writing out a well. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Kali. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, CC handing it across to you. [SPEAKER_01]: You are not cringe, Kali. [SPEAKER_02]: As the youngest one of our group, you are not cringe. [SPEAKER_02]: Because if you're cringe, we're cringe. [SPEAKER_02]: And we can't be cringe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our first line. [SPEAKER_02]: Our first line reads, whoever said you can't outrun grief. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I've got a boarding pass and tending oil that says otherwise. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a good line. [SPEAKER_02]: and like it, and I'll think it's your first line. [SPEAKER_02]: I worry it's a little too on the nose, thematically speaking. [SPEAKER_02]: I would would have preferred to be surprised by her reason. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm for going on this trip.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the reader brain would most likely assume a teenager is really [SPEAKER_02]: looking forward to getting away because she wants to get away from some boy or because she's looking forward to an adventure or like all these teen reasons and then we could have had the surprise of her reason being grief when her mom's friend comes into the store and that would have like recalibrated everything in my brain and that would have been a more in my opinion of course
[SPEAKER_02]: Just like guess more powerful way of introducing the the themes of grief and how she's trying to out run grave It just felt way too when I say on the nose I think honestly if I were a listener, I'd be like this is very confusing to me. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm supposed to deliver pages that match the query letter But it can't be on the nose.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just mean [SPEAKER_02]: At the same time that you do have to deliver pages that match the query letter, we can't be unsurprised by all the five pages. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, we need to discover something in the first five pages. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that if you were to set it up in the way that I'm suggesting or any other way that that would reveal surprise, it could be a little bit stronger.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, when she was talking to her friend, like the dialogue, I was curious about what she was not saying. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm always looking for what's being left and said. [SPEAKER_02]: The most obvious example of that is, you know, she's taking her friend. [SPEAKER_02]: She's telling her friend, you know, take it up with my dad. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you can convince him that you can come on the trip.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, is her interior already going actually looking forward to being alone? [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she wants to kind of like maybe spare her friend's feelings.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe she's going, [SPEAKER_02]: I really do hope she'll talk to my dad because I really want her there, like just extra layers and the layers don't have to be contradiction, doesn't have to be like parsing A and meaning B. [SPEAKER_02]: It could be her saying A and then her interior already giving us just more context on the intensity of A and the importance of A. [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, otherwise again, really strong. [SPEAKER_02]: We had some really strong submissions today.
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt there was a whole paragraph, night in the paragraph more. [SPEAKER_02]: that I highlighted, substock supporters will see it, where just the way you introduced a surprise a disruption to the protagonist was really strong. [SPEAKER_02]: You were zooming in and zooming out in a really masterful way and it was very conversational and fun, so good job. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much, CC.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just a reminder to our listeners that we've now got the meet your dream agent segment in our sub stack and it's so interesting already to see the contradictory advice and the contradictory takes that we have in terms of query preferences and what what an agent thinks about voice queries compared to what another agent thinks.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is an excellent way for you to get to know agents a lot better because they answer a ton of questions, some of them give excerpts from query letters they have received, but it's also a great way again to see the subjectivity that we constantly speaking about. [SPEAKER_02]: basically you're saying it's a great way to be confused. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a great way to be confused everyone. [SPEAKER_02]: Go look at our sub-stack, go be confused.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's a great way to meet the perfect agent for you because when you feel like your feelings on something aligns with someone else's feelings on something. [SPEAKER_01]: then it feels like a love match. [SPEAKER_01]: And the problem is with pairing is that you don't know very much about agents. [SPEAKER_01]: You can see the manuscript delicious and you can kind of follow them on socials.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you don't really get into the nitty gritty of the things that really make their hearts flatter when they get a query later. [SPEAKER_01]: So definitely subscribe to the sub-stack for that to see the different takes on that and maybe you will find the one. [SPEAKER_01]: Right, Colleen CC, thank you so much as always for your excellent advice and we will see you next week for our awesome interview.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have everyone who'd like to query CC, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wshermen.com [SPEAKER_01]: Carly Waters is a literary agent at PS Literary Agency, but a work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host. [SPEAKER_01]: They do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of PS Literary Agency.