Is It Time To Leave Your Gym?

Today in the podcast , we are bringing you a recording of a very , very helpful live gymnastics culture Q&A that myself and Ewa Shute did on the week that my book came out , the Gymnastics Culture Cure .

We offered this to people who bought a book in the first weeks and said hey , you'll get a free recording of a lecture that I did for the college gymnastics people , but also you're going to get a free ticket to this live Q&A with me and Hurt and just talk about any culture issues you have . Are you unhappy at work ?

Is there someone who's stressing you out ? Is there gossip at your gym ? Is the leadership not great ? The kid's not motivated ?

Whatever you got , we got it , and so we really dove into topics I think that everyone really is commonly dealing with , which is again what do you do when people in the staff at your gym are just not really healthy , right , when they're kind of talking behind your back , when there's gossip , when there's drama going on with the parents ?

How do you deal with those parents ? How do you deal with those coaches to be happier at work ? And another really tough one we got is what do you do when the culture is actually kind of being brought down by the person in charge , so the gym owner or the head team coach or something like that ?

What do you do when that person is in a leadership position and you know they're the person who is really making things hard ? How do you have that conversation ? How do you make sure that things are getting changed ? We talked about what do you do when you're the only one who wants to change but nobody else around you really does ?

You feel like kind of stuck in back against the wall in terms of wanting to learn more , new drills , new whatever , but nobody else wants to do anything and nobody else wants to address any of those core issues .

So lots of really helpful guidance and wisdom from Eva and hopefully myself as well , on kind of what we have done and what we think other people should do .

And then we do have a hard conversation around like what do you do if that gym's just unwilling to change and you want to try to think about making a career change or move or something like that , which is really hard to deal with . So hopefully , with that , we give you some guidance and things like that . So , yeah , hope you all enjoyed this episode .

I wanted to make sure I got it out now because , again , a lot of these topics are things that people ask us about commonly and I hope that it gives you some really good information . So , hoping you enjoyed this episode with me and Eva shoot .

You know , I'm just like man . This is like a tough problem to think through and so having someone to bounce ideas off of is really important and just sometimes just validate that . It's hard .

You know , I think that's one of the hardest things is just somebody telling you you're not crazy , that's normal to be frustrated about , and we go through these things too , and you know you're a human and that's okay .

So , yeah , I will fire away these first couple of questions and then you guys can drop them in the chat or you guys can just wait and maybe raise your hand . There's like a little raise hand function at the bottom or just jump in at the end .

So this one's the first one and I got this from three different people during last week when the book was going out . So this is why I want to have it first . So it says what do you do if the person who runs your gym is the reason your culture is toxic ?

And somebody gave that to me in terms of a head coach who was also the owner , and then two other people gave it to me in terms of the owner themselves . And so I have some thoughts here as I think Eve and I agree with .

But , eve , I'd love for you to maybe share your ideas first , because people hear enough from me on the podcast , and then we'll go from there .

So if you feel like the owner is someone you could approach , kind of one-on-one in a scheduled meeting obviously don't do it out on the floor in the middle of practice , but schedule time to say , hey , I have a few things that I wanna chat about , wondering if I could grab some one-on-one time with you , and usually that's best done via an email so that you

have documentation that you requested the meeting and then certainly go into the meeting prepared

. I like to tell people to pick your top three main points that you want to keep coming back to the top three most important things , which might be hard . It takes a little bit of pre-work at first , because usually when people get to this point they're like everything's wrong . There's so many things , there's two pages of issues , and that's likely true .

So pick your top three and really stick to them and think about how to keep the emotions separate from the facts that you're gonna present or your concerns . And that is maybe the hardest part , in my opinion , because we're so emotional about what we do .

We love what we do , and especially when it's the owner , and maybe an example would be just that you feel like you're being demeaned or diminished in front of the kids , like I've heard that a lot and so that feels personal and sometimes it is .

And I think being able to do that pre-work before you go into the conversation to say like , okay , when he or she does this , I feel all of these ways about it . And I'm gonna put the emotional pieces on the shelf for a minute and just present the fact that it's happening , because I often wonder if the gym owners even know that that's how they're behaving .

Sometimes the intent versus impact is a huge discrepancy . The intent is very different than the actual impact that it's having .

And so , again , emotions aside , focusing on your top three points , going in and then at least you can say , whether the behavior changes or not , that you've put effort forth to have the conversation with the person , because I truly feel like how do we grow as people , how do we become better leaders , if we don't have our staff coming to us to say , hey ,

like I'm a little concerned about these things , or I'm just noticing that this is always the approach and I'm not sure it's working or whatever it may be .

It's like sometimes you kind of need to be hit in the face , and I could tell you some stories about staff that have come to me , as I've been a leader in gymnastics for 15 years , so I've had quite a few situations where staff part-time and full-time have come to me and said , hey , can I schedule time ? I'm like , oh God , what did I do ?

But as much as you wanna get defensive right Cause I've been on both sides of it . I've been on the side where someone's bringing something to me . I've been on the side where I've brought something to a leader . It's hard in both scenarios .

But , like I said , if you're putting effort into at least speaking your truth I think everyone needs that space to be able to speak their truth and if the conversation goes well , then maybe it helps your leader grow , maybe it helps your relationship with your leader , maybe you'll notice some changes and differences happening in the gym and you'll know Like , oh ,

like he or she is taking a different approach , like we just had a conversation about this . So that's really satisfying when you know that the conversation you've had has had that kind of impact .

The other side of the coin could be that it's an epic disaster and the leader is like no , like shuts down , is defensive , you know , projects their frustration back onto you , tries to make it your fault , and so in that case , my very simple answer is it's time to go find another gym , work somewhere else . You don't deserve that .

You don't deserve to live , to work in that kind of environment . And if it's coming from the top and the person at the top is showing that they have no capacity to change or desire to Then go get out of the situation .

That's really hard to do because you're attached to the kids , you're attached to your coworkers , so there's a lot , you know , entangled in all of this .

But start with a meeting , pick your top three things that you want to focus on , keep coming back to them , even if someone's trying to derail you , and then , if that doesn't seem to turn any kind of result , maybe it's time to move on . That's amazing .

They don't really have so much going on . They don't see the ground levels like and you and I had this right Like you got promoted to a much higher position , that you were overseeing a bunch of gyms , and it wasn't for any malicious intent .

You just lost touch with the ground level dirt that we were going through in our specific gym versus the other gyms themselves . So each gym had their problem . We had some like ground level problems and because you weren't there every day , you just weren't able to see them and feel their umph factor , you know .

And then , as you and I had a couple meetings , one time I was like listen , like , like even this is a problem . Like like I know you don't see this and like you've been trying to gloss over this , over number , like this is a , this is a problem . And at that moment you're like , oh , you know .

So I mean , I love you to death and , like you were obviously the best person ever to have the leadership role , but in that moment you just couldn't see it because you were farther away than you used to be .

So , yeah , my three steps are the same , which is , you know , privately and professionally , try to bring up the facts of the situation in a very empathetic way . I think that making sure it's fact based and saying like this is exactly what happened . There's no my opinion or somebody else's opinion . This is a documented thing .

And also , I think , if you can frame the conversation in terms of their goals , that's a really important part of cognitive research , which is when the person believes that they are involved in the outcome and that they have some locus of control .

So obviously , that gym owner runs a gym because they probably want to have a gym where the kids are happy and they can supply for the staff and they want to have a good financial you know health of their gym .

So if you frame those conversations about like hey , listen , like this is a problem and it's actually affecting , like how happy the coaching staff is and how happy I am , and the kids are feeling it , the parents are feeling it and oh , by the way , people are probably going to leave if this continues and that's going to affect our health of our gym .

That might be a little bit more in their court of what their goals are , versus you saying like you said , eva , which is like , hey , this is a problem because me and my goals right . So I think that's really important . The other thing I would add , too , is I think strength in numbers is really important sometimes .

So if you have a meeting by yourself and it feels like it falls on deaf ears sometimes when two or three or five people , all you know , have a similar kind of recommendation , or come to Jesus moment that that person is like , wow , okay , like three parents and four coaches and feel the same way about this thing we have an issue with .

Maybe it is a little bit more of a decision I have to make and I'm the one in control and I always more of an intervention almost . Yeah , exactly , and I try to tell , like people too , that you have to . You have to bring solutions to that meeting . You have to bring . I'm a one to three ratio kind of guy .

I think that if you have one problem that's really bugging you , you should bring three possible solutions to that so that if the first or second one doesn't stick , maybe the third one is like oh , that's interesting , I didn't think about that that way , because I really I'm really not a fan of someone just saying the same thing over and over and over and

gossiping about it . That's just complaining , right ? That's not constructive at all , that's complaining .

So , yeah , I agree with everything Eva said and I in the same way , which is like if it really is not happening , then like you have to do yourself a favor and either move or find a new gym or do something , because the average person spends , you know , 30% of their life working and we all love our job way too much , so it's probably 40 to 50 .

So do you want to spend half your life miserable at a job that you don't enjoy , in a place you don't let suck in your soul away ?

No , and as soon as you break out of that and you get to a place where there's people who care about you and value your input and really do like , you feel like the heavens open up and you're so much happier at your job .

So in this , for this particular scenario , have you tried to have a conversation with your gym owner and it didn't go well ? Have you attempted to bring others in the strength and numbers concept that Dave was just talking about for a little mini intervention to say , hey , it's not just me feeling this way .

We care about this gym , we care about the kids and this community . Like we're all coming to you saying these things aren't working , no good , okay , that's strike two . What's the third thing ? What's the straw that's going to break the camel's back ?

You have to really stand by your three strikes , though you have to know , like , okay , three strikes and I'm out , three strikes and I'm leaving . You want to give people a chance . You want to give people a chance to evolve and change , but not at your own expense . Right ? Like , do you feel walked out all over ? Do you feel like it's beating you down ?

You feel overwhelmed and continually exhausted and you're asking for support and you're not getting it . It's like three strikes and you're out , or they're out , depending on what side you're on .

Like that's like a toxic relationship , like did you are not doing any self any favors there . So , yeah , I think we I think we beat that one pretty well , you know . So I have two more here . If anybody here wants to ask questions live , that's definitely a priority . So did anyone have any questions they want to ask or put in the chat before we do it ?

And someone else mentioned in the chat as well that the sticking with I statements can be very , very helpful . So I agree with that too Not making it all about pointing fingers right , pull the thumb sometimes . So I agree with that . And anyone else got one . Before we go to the next submitted one , it's okay .

If not , it was nervous , all right , we'll do this one . So this one came up to quite a bit . So this person said the gossip between coaches behind each other's back and my gym is so bad and it makes me feel paranoid .

We tried to mention it at staff meetings but it only makes it worse because it feels like high school when people continue to know that I'm the one who brought up the complaint .

So it sounds like this person is getting some shit , frankly , from people at their gym and there's a little drama going on or some high school level arguments , and that that's circling behind the scenes and that whatever the leader or person is not really taking it seriously or it's not getting acted upon . Maybe there's no disciplinary actions being taken there .

So this person feels a little on eggshells at work and , yeah , I don't know , I can't say that I personally have had this experience , but I do know a lot of female coaches . It seems to be a little bit more ruthless on that side . So I think , eva , you might be better to embrace this one before me .

And so I think my advice on this one would be to not feed the monster . If you feed the monster , it lives , it grows , it survives , it keeps going . If you starve the monster , it dies . So the best thing you can do in that moment , if you don't want to be a part of the gossip , is to just not entertain it .

Like , don't give it any energy , you don't feed it , it will go away . And if there are others that feel the same way but feel like they have to engage , it's okay to say it out loud I'm just not engaging , I'm not interested in this , Like . I'm trying to focus my energy elsewhere .

I'd rather focus on building my skills as a coach , or helping my gymnasts build their skills , or organizing for the next home meet , or whatever it may be . I think we only have so much energy in our tanks every day . We have to decide how we're going to use it and where we're going to direct that energy . It's like a bank account .

It's like if you were to wake up every day with a hundred bucks in your bank account . How are you going to spend that money all day long ? How are you allocating it ? Well , it's the same with energy . How are you allocating your energy every day ?

It's amazing to me how much energy people put into just gossiping and squawking and negativity and it's just like ugh . It's tough to be around that vibration all day or even for part of your day , so it's hard to do . But it's almost like the way we teach the gymnasts how to stay in their beam bubbles .

Stay in your beam bubble , right , your focus is on you and the balance beam and your coach , and everything outside of the bubble is outside of the bubble while you're on the balance beam , because you've got four inches to work with and this is your focus . I love the beam bubble . Well , can we do that for the gossip ?

And we have a gossip bubble where all the gossip stays outside , right , like sometimes having that visual for yourself can help create almost like an emotional barrier , so as the gossip comes in , it's like it just bounces off the bubble and then you're not consumed by it . We certainly can't change other people's behavior . We can't change what people do .

We can't change what people think . We can change how we behave . We can change how we take in information and how it impacts us emotionally .

But if we're feeling like the gossip is too much , then we can be the mentor in the gym , the one that's not doing that , like the bold one that's going to go where no one else has gone before , if everyone else is gossiping , and maybe you'll get a couple of followers , and if not , maybe it's time to find a different gym . Do I keep saying that ?

I keep saying that over and over again .

But there's a thing from my Gary Vaynerchuk which is think about the current state of life of someone who goes out of their way to just shit , talk to other people all the time and instead of work on themselves , dude , that's an awful life . Like , that's really not a great life .

So I think there's an empathetic thing that you can try to use to reframe that conversation to yourself . You don't be like , listen , this person's in a bad place , man , this person's hurting inside Person's got something else going on . It doesn't make it hurt less , like , don't get me wrong at all , but it does help you .

Maybe just accept the fact like huh , interesting , like this person would rather talk about me behind my back or this person behind their back , instead of just focusing on themselves and being happy and working with the kids or doing whatever .

And to your point too , like I see the argument and I'm a fan of that kind of like just block it out , focus on yourself . But I think there's a tactful way on the front end of that , to like tell them directly to their face that they're being a child . You know what I mean .

Like I think there's a role to play about , like if someone is really being gossipy and is really doing that , like , just like , like , do you hear yourself ? Like this is how you want to spend your time .

Like you think that , like this affects me , like I know , you think you're like getting behind my back , but like you're just spending your life just miserable worrying about what I'm doing . Like that's really , like I feel bad for you , like I generally feel bad for you , you know . And then you're like okay , and I'm just going to choose to ignore it .

So , like good luck , you know . Like good luck with your side of the gym . And I think , like that sometimes hits a little bit harder in a polite , tactful way . I always joke about like when your parents were disappointed in you , not mad at you . It was way worse .

You know , my dad used to be like I'm not mad , I just I thought I raised you better than that and I'm disappointed in your choices , and I was like oh , oh , there's so much worse . So I think when , like , mature adults hear that from each other .

Like oh , that's interesting , like I thought you were a nice person and like your choices or your actions are just showing .

Like , yeah , you're kind of like a gossipy person and like I'm sorry , but like I'm not going to spend much time with you , and then you limit your time with that person , you limit your attention to that person and you know they learn the hard way that you know like , oh , wait a minute , I have some apologizing to do .

I got to change my ways , so not easy .

It's all we can do to get them to show up in a staff shirt like on time , you know , looking somewhat pulled together to teach a class or coach . It's like that's . It's tough .

It is tough , and when you're in the trenches and you're like it's all we can do to just get everyone to show up for their shift that they committed to . So how , when you're just focused on that , can we be like ? But the culture ? But stop gossiping . And nobody cares how much you drank last night . Okay , like it's Saturday morning .

You committed to this shift . You have eight little kids so excited about gymnastics , with their big eyeballs and the pigtails and the leotards on , and they're ready to go , and they've been talking about your class all week , like can we just get it together ?

It's like really hard with this generation of teenagers , cause they're like no , I don't even care , I don't even , I don't even know , I don't even care . So I get it . It's really hard and I think it's like Dave said nip it in the bud . We don't talk that way .

Like this is , you know you have to just like call it as you see it , especially for the teenagers . Call it as you see it . I think it's a little bit easier when there's an age separation , right , like I'm 41 . I have no problem going to the 16 year olds and being like no , we don't dress like that here . Nope , like , put longer shorts please .

Okay , put the staff shirt on and we can't be talking about the drinking plans in front of the children . So I have no problem saying that it's a little harder when it's with your peers , right , like coaches that you're coaching alongside , like it's tough . It's tough when you're like okay , this coach is being so negative .

I'm just trying to run a vault practice and all I hear is like the negativity on bars , and I think it's hard either way . But when you do have that age separation , take advantage of the opportunity to be the teacher . Be , we are teachers . Whether we like it or not , we are teachers , we are educators and we really have to take on that role seriously .

And yeah , I , michelle , I hear you . I think the if you have that age separation , if you have that age separation , you do have authority because of your experience . If you think of it that way it's okay .

It's okay to be the one that's holding people accountable to the basic expectations , even if you're not the leader , because I will tell you , as a leader , my most valuable employees are the ones that are helping me keep everybody up above the basics . I can't do it by myself .

It's way too much work , there's too many gyms , there's too many kids , there's too many staff , right ? So , yes , and you can use the mom thing , girl , use it Like pull mom a bear card , 100% . Because what are we as moms ? We're educators , we're teachers . We're trying to teach our children . Well , it's the same thing for the staff .

The staff are just children . They're just 16 , 17 , 18 year old children . We got to . They need to learn . They have to learn somewhere , and if it's in our gyms , that's great , because sometimes it's happening at home , sometimes it's happening at school , but not all the time , and we can't control what's happening at home or at school .

We can only control what's happening in the gyms . And they will thank you later , trust me , it'll be down the road . But when they circle back and they're like thanks for teaching me all the things and you weren't always my favorite person , but , like now , you're my favorite person because I learned from you .

So it's not the instant gratification we're always hoping for , but years later , when they do come back and they're like , oh , like , you taught me so much and I didn't realize that at the time and now I understand why you were disappointed about this thing and it's like there's something to that .

Those are the moments where you're like , okay , we're doing something right here . I am truly teaching these guys , I am truly the leader . So it's hard , it takes a lot of work . I mean , does anyone feel like , does anyone have these struggles with the staff ? Does everyone employ mostly teenage staff right now , especially for your program level ?

I think we should just give you a mic all the time and let you just rant on your ceiling , because that's important .

I do want to say it brings up a bit of an echo that's important and bigger , which Eva has taught me and that we were very important on , is that it's very hard to hold someone to a standard if those standards aren't written down and contractively signed mutually .

So you need to when you hire these people or when you work with these younger teenagers , you need to , like , look them in the eyes and be like , listen . I know this is a book that you didn't read because nobody reads the giant 40 page employee handbook , but here are the fair things you are signing up for to say that this is happening right .

Like you are agreeing to showing up to these shifts on time in your staff shirt , not hungover , ready to go with a lesson plan 15 minutes early . Like that is part of your requirement as a coach . Do you understand , yes or no ? Do you have questions about that ?

And on that , on the empathetic loop is like , maybe on that meeting or when they start to figure it out , or like , are there skills that you thought you had that you don't have , that we should teach you ? Like that , we're here to teach you and help you . That's part of the on ramping staff .

But Alex from Mozi talks about that that , like , some of the biggest staff frustrations he has in his businesses are at the very baseline level .

90% of the people are great people who didn't have the skill they thought they had and so they got into the lesson plan and they're like , oh my God , I don't really know how to set up this drill circuit or these , teach these giants or teach these , whatever is .

Or I actually don't know how to talk to a parent , well , about this lead heart issue or whatever . Like they didn't have the skill set to handle that problem and that's why things got really tough and why they got frustrated or it was a weird standoff .

So you need to outline the operational guidelines which , eva , I would definitely love you to maybe talk about operational versus cultural guidelines .

The operational guidelines for me are the hard and fast legal safety , like law , almost like of your gym , which is like to stay safe and stay open as a gym , whereas the cultural guidelines are how do we wanna behave , what do we tolerate , what are our , what's our mission , what's our ethos , what's the behavioral contract we're gonna have ?

And then when people don't have a great day or a week , you point to . You point their choices to the contractual obligations . You don't point them as a human to something they did wrong .

You say your actions are you came 15 minutes late , you smelled like booze , right , you didn't have a lesson plan ready and you weren't in your staff shirt Four things right there that you in this handbook , signed the agreement to . Your choices are not reflective of the contract you signed , like do you agree or do you disagree ?

And it's not like you're coming out with a witch hunt , you're just saying , factually , do you agree that this was good or bad ? Okay , and then what are we gonna do about that ? And so I think that's very important to set that backbone .

Importantly , we for sure got into some very hot water with parents when we had things in our mind that we knew we wanted to do , but didn't write them on paper . And then we'd get to a meet and they'd be like , yeah , but like why aren't we competing this skill ? Why didn't my daughter move up ?

And then we realized like , oh shit , we actually didn't say there's guidelines for how to move from level six to level seven with attendance and practice and skills and whatever . So it's actually our fault . We didn't write those in stone and communicate those . So how can we hold the parent accountable who's upset with us because we didn't ?

Their daughter scratched it a meet for a safety reason . So it's a bigger , really important process . I think that saves you a lot of headaches and you have to write these things down for sure . So I'll look in the chat . But , eva , can you talk about operational versus cultural guidance , because that was very important for our gym .

Like it's not me personally attacking you , it's just that I'm not seeing your behavior aligned with these guidelines on both sides . So it's really nice to have those things to lean on , because people are so quick to be like well , she just doesn't like me , or she's playing favorites and I'm not one of them .

And you can even say that in the conversation Like this isn't about favorites , Like I adore you , Like we should go have a drink sometime . It's not about that . It's about that like in this gym . These are the expectations . We reviewed them when you were hired . We review them continually throughout your employment .

I'm not seeing them , that they're being followed and it's posing a safety risk to our kids , our family , our community , whatever it may be , and or it's damaging our culture . And I think having those things down , like Dave said , just helps .

You speak really plainly and simply to it in a very professional way and you can even pull out the piece of paper Like do you see , do you remember when you signed this contract ? Like whoop , pull it out of the file , Then that shuts them up real fast . You're like , ooh , ooh , yeah , ooh , okay .

Because sometimes they're just like oh , I just really want to get hired . And they sign at the line . They're not really reading and they're not digesting it . So I think it's important to keep touching back on it in regular staff meetings as well .

I think some folks make the mistake of , you know , putting the info out there , getting people to sign it , and then it just collects dust in a folder somewhere and it's like well , no , we have to keep coming back to like the repetition is so important .

It doesn't have to be a full review , taking up 20 minutes of your staff meeting every other week , but I think you definitely like pull some points out to touch back on , Like remember , why are we making these decisions ? What are our core values in our gym ? What are the things that we care about ? What do we do that keeps us safe ?

What are some examples of how we keep our gym safe and our kids safe ?

So yes , in terms of operational versus cultural , I think your operational umbrella starts with safety first , always , without question , and you can , depending on the structure of your gyms , kind of physically decide you know what safety means for your gym and you know , down the road , happy to share what safety means in our gym and some more specific details around

that . But I think you can't do anything , you can't even take a step in any direction until you've identified what safe means in your space and whatever you need to be doing to contribute to that . And then , underneath that umbrella of safety , then you have your basic expectations . So it's basically like best practices in gymnastics what are they ?

What are your top five to 10 major pieces that if you know those pieces are happening in your gym and they're being followed , that you're in a good place and you're kind of poised for growth , so to speak .

If something doesn't feel right , something's starting to fall down , people are unhappy , membership is complaining , gymnasts are falling apart Like then you can come back to your best practices and go okay , are we doing number one ? Yep , all set , not an issue . Okay , number two ooh , we're missing a few things here . Okay , this side of the department looks good .

This is really suffering . Okay , we need to look at that . That's a crack in your foundation . That's why things are falling through right . What's number three ? Number three is good . We're awesome . Everyone's following a rotation schedule . We have rotation schedules . So there's that .

You have a rotation schedule and everyone's following it and they know where to go and what to do . I'm just giving you examples . Okay , we're good there . Check what's number four ?

So don't be afraid to come back and kind of reevaluate , and you can do it yourself , or you can pull someone that you trust in to say like okay , can you take the sheet of paper that has our best practices on it and for the next week , just observe While you're coaching , or come in a few minutes early or stay a few minutes late and I'll pay you for

your time . Pay your people for their time , please , and just be honest . Make some notes . And can we meet next week about the things that you're seeing ? Like bring , it could be a parent that you trust .

It could be like , if you're working in , so our program is run out of the YMCA , so we have other departments , Like I literally have called the sports director at times to be like okay , when you're not in basketball season , can you come down here and just like an innocent bystander , act like you have a kid in the program .

Just check it out , like evaluate with this sheet , Tell me what you're seeing . Again , they're basic expectations , so it shouldn't be hard for the basketball sports director to identify . Does everyone have a staff shirt on ? Does the equipment look safe and organized ? Is everyone engaged or is there a lot of sitting around ?

Okay , like we shouldn't be sitting on the floor unless we're like learning choreography in a straddle . Okay , like , stand up , move , engaging . Kids are moving . Parents are not paying for the kids to be sitting around waiting their turn . Like these are basic things that you have someone . Come in .

It could be a family member , it could be your husband , your wife , your sister . Can you come in and just observe ?

I can't press this point enough , because there's nothing more valuable than another set of eyes that has no bias , right , or is just not your own set of eyes , because sometimes you're looking at it , going something's not working , but I don't know what it is and it just doesn't feel right .

Or you have to just kind of take the 5,000 story , view from the top and the birds I view and go okay , this is good , we're gonna keep doing that . This is not working . We need to , like , deploy the troops to this area . We need to throw resources on this . It's not working . This is okay .

Right now we're gonna need a few things , but we can band aid a few things for now , until we fix this thing , and then the resources come over here . Like , how can you kind of play chess because I know we only have so many resources at our fingertips , right ?

How can you kind of play chess by , like , rising up a bit and just looking at everything you're overseeing ? Or even if you're not overseeing it , you don't have to be overseeing it . You can still rise up and look at the whole picture and go this part of the picture is just not fitting . This is not fitting .

So really important these and it sounds , I mean , it is cultural . Like the cultural pieces and the operational pieces definitely intertwine , but for your basic operations , like , you just need to identify what your top 10 things are and then evaluate them continuously and have other people evaluate them continuously .

Don't be afraid to jump into your staff meetings and be like all right guys , slap those 10 things on the table . Where does everyone feel like we're at ? But these basic core functions of gymnastics programming , where are we at ? How are we doing ? Everyone lives in the world , especially when we're in season of scores .

So what would you give us on safety right now ? Are we at a 10 , or is it a 9.5 ? Or are we like hovering around a 7.7 ? If it's a 7.7 , there's some work to do , right . We would say the same thing about a bar team that gets a 7.7 . So why don't we evaluate our safety that way ? Or the timeliness of staff , the consistency of staff ?

Is there a leader present at all times to ensure that there's enough support for the folks that are working ? Is everyone engaging their membership ? Are the kids feeling like they're being taken care of ? Are the parents feeling like they're paying for an excellent experience where the kids are having fun and they're learning new things and they're meeting new friends ?

You can decide what it means for your gym . I can tell you what we do in our gyms , but like and you could take it and like copy paste . Fine with me , it's all yours . But I think you're probably gonna have your own ideas of like what's important to you . So decide what they are and stick to them and keep coming back to them .

I'm going to ask Quintin's questions here . If you guys have more questions , please drop them in , because the conversation is very good , but this is a piggyback off of what we were just kind of highlighting .

So Quintin says what methods or media do you like to use to reinforce the values of the core cultural values , besides just having it in the gym's handbook and I will jump in first and share mine and then Eva can share hers . From the owner kind of director point of view is when we first had a lot of strife with the cultural guidelines .

So we actually had amazing operational guidelines because Eva was a fantastic person to document them and do it all .

We adjusted them , we changed some things , we added some stuff , but a lot of the problems we were having fell more on the cultural guidelines point of view , which is , you know , I don't know , maybe this is a blended book but like , how do we move athletes up ? Like , what is the ?

What is the , the guidelines or the recommendations that we have for how we're going to move kids up so that the parents can know . I wouldn't say that's a hard and fast , you know , safety thing , maybe a little bit , but it's not more of like just making sure everyone's on the same page .

So we made a stoplight system which is like yellow , red , yellow and green in terms of like these are things for you to level six , level seven requirements . Here are the skills you need on each routine , here are the values you need and here is how you get green light and these things . You can do it seven times , no problem .

Without a spot , any day of the week , no problem . That's a green light , right ? A yellow light is you need to spot sometimes , but sometimes you're good on your own . You're still working on it . It's an upgrade in progress , but you're generally there and you're doing that on an almost competitive setting .

But maybe there's a map put in , maybe there's a bump here and there started the season , that kind of stuff . A red light is you're just . You're still working on it . It's a work in progress but it's just not quite there yet .

So we told the athletes that they had to have all of their skill categories and requirements done with all green lights and maybe a few yellow lights , because there's always context , specific issues . Somebody really struggles on beam to go backwards because they have a back thing right . Somebody really struggles on bars because it's a fear thing .

Like we get the reality of that . We don't want to be , we didn't want to be , so you know , cutthroat with it . But every what quarter , eva , maybe like preseason and end of season , we would have meetings with the athletes .

We would do their green light sheets or their yellow light or their red light sheets before and we would bring that to the meeting one on one with the athlete . Like hey , like you smoked it on floor and vault this year , like you did so good , like you have green lights across the board totally ready to move up , not even a problem .

But like what we really need to work on is we need that release on bars and that beam series is still coming along . You're getting there , you're really close , but like which is not quite there yet .

So that's going to be a big part of our focus and I felt like it was like giving the athletes their report card beforehand so that when their parents ask us , we send them the same thing and it's not weird about like what's this , what's that ? You know they can talk about it .

So that was one that we literally printed out sheets and use those repeatedly over and over again . We also had one with the competition setting , so we talked about this a little bit in the book too .

But like the rule of seven , which is like we really struggled with getting into hot water of , like you know , last minute deciding that kids weren't ready to compete certain skills or upgrades where they got sick , they had to test them .

As to practices before a meet , and you know parents were really upset when they go to a practice that you see their kid step up , salute , step off , and you know they were like wait a minute , and that was our fault . That's a kind of buddy , because we were blind siding them with things they weren't ready for .

So instead of we said , okay , we need a way to be a little more objective about this , which was every week , you need to show us seven of that skill or that routine in a competition setting with no spot on the real bars in a time period no spot on the real bars in a time warm up , like going safely , completely not that someone's going to miss sometimes

or somebody has an issue , that's totally fine but like safely doing this . It wasn't going to be a everyone's squint and close their eyes , with somebody cast a handstand for a giant , like we're not going to do that . And so that became a rolling every single week of a meet .

You had to show us seven of those on three different days , so Monday , tuesday , wednesday or practice , and then we'd have a meet run through on Friday before Saturday meet and it started to become like a non negotiable and like somebody I remember even I both have probably the person I'm thinking of in mind that wanted to flip a suit and she was like well ,

like I was like well , are you safe to do it ? Have you done seven ? She was like no , but like I'm okay , like if I land short and get hurt , and I was like that's not how we do things here . I was like if you do seven and you did it without a spot , you can do it , but you didn't . So that's where we're at . And she was upset with us .

But after the meet she was like , yeah , that was probably a good thing , like when I , you know , was flustered and stuff when I warmed up , it wouldn't have been good . So those are two things that we , like you talked about other mediums , those were literally sheets of paper we worked through almost quarterly or bi annually .

That were like things we did with the athletes and with the parents and another version of this , not to belabor the points here . But we got into a lot of problems with what's the PR word for this pettiness , maybe gossipy , bickering I want to say bitching , but I'm not going to say bitching around the practices and stuff like that .

People were just like caddy towards each other , like really caddy . So that's not an operational thing , that's not like a , that's not like a law of the gym safety lawyer ring , that's more of just like it's not fun to be at practice when people are all talking crap to each other and are being a little caddy , you know .

So we sat our group down , which I was working with the optionals , myself and my partner , coach Mel , and we said like , okay , like we all agree , this is a problem , right , we all agree , this is not fun to be here and everyone's like , yeah , this is kind of like rough , like we're not airing our stuff out , this gossip .

So we collectively , as a group , we're like we're going to outline the 10 things that we agree upon that are important for us , to be kind and respectful and honest with the core values of the Y towards each other , and are going to make practice fun because it's a voluntary activity that all of us do . Right , like me and Mel .

Eva pays us well , but we're not here bank rolling , right , that's not what's going on . We do it because we love you guys and you guys are here because you love the sport and you enjoy what we're doing . So we need to all make sure we're on the same page , that when we're here , we're going to actually enjoy that .

And that's where it started with and it was like all right , what do we care about ? It was like , well , we should be , we should be good , good humans . We should be good humans , and that means being respectful when someone's having a tough day .

And if you have a side comment to say , you don't say it because you know that someday you're going to have a bad day . So we would talk through these things and we had a list of a bunch of stuff . Ego is the enemy .

You know books that we would pass around , stuff like that , and we literally wrote them in bubbly letters with all the fun creations Mel and the girls did it because my handwriting is horrific and we put it slap in the middle of the gym on the vault runway .

It was like literally in the middle of the gym for everyone to see and even though it was our set of rules , we felt that it inspired the younger coaches and the younger athletes quite a bit .

So that's an example where , like sure could we have written that in a piece of paper and tucked away in a binder , probably , but like it's probably better in giant ass letters on the wall so that when somebody does something that's a little bit weird , you can be like number four , be a good human . You know what I mean .

In the same way that you're holding employees accountable and I think that's a really cool team way to do it . I think it's a really cool way to sit down there and I'll do it together , because there's definitely some times that I'd be held accountable . You know I come in I was working two other jobs at the time . I come in late .

I'm kind of tired , you know , I'm kind of run down and I snap off on something and have a short fuse and , like Alex , one of our older gymnasts was like roll three , you know , like be a good person , and I was like , oh , you got me , like I'm sorry , I apologize , that was my fault , I'm just going through some stuff , so it's a much .

It's a much better , fluid way to do it . And , michelle , on the template of the stoplight , we have to have that in Google Drive somewhere . I don't know where that is , but we should put somewhere in there so we can definitely find it .

I have to say that you know our gyms are lucky being a part of the why , the YMCA , because our , the Y of the North Shore , has a mission statement that is like our overarching entity slogan for all things . And so our mission statement at the Y is that our Y welcomes all .

We strengthen communities , educate and nurture children and promote healthy living in spirit , mind and body . And the vision at our particular Y is that all children , adults and families are healthy , confident and connected , and that is tied into our values of caring , honesty , respect and responsibility .

So that I mean everything we do , all the tough decisions we make , all the great decisions that we make or easy decisions we make , should always filter back to the core values and the mission and the vision of the why , because that's the umbrella we operate under . And then , like Dave mentioned , as you know , sub kind of programs .

It's almost like we're running business , you know , running our gymnastics business under the umbrella of the why . Right , we definitely have our gymnastics , specific pieces like our family rules and you know that we're coaching the people before the athletes and our priority filters everything you guys have heard on the podcast endlessly .

But I think it's like having the mission statement , is like having your north star .

When you get lost because we do I have been lost many times you can look back to your north star and find your way again , come back to your core values , come back to the when you're making the tough decisions and you're like like spinning your wheels on something you can be like , okay , hold on , move , kind of shake it off . What is ? Why are we here ?

What are we doing ? What is the meaning of all this ? Okay , this is about the kids . This is about healthy living . This is about social responsibility , youth development , whatever it , whatever matters to you and your gym and you've already decided on it . Then it helps you go okay , okay . Okay , I was getting a little caught up over here .

We're going to come back to the north star . We're going to come back to our direction . I think that that is like so valuable . I'm not sure what I would have done in so many situations without having the mission and the core values and the vision and our priority filters . I mean like saving grace , saving grace so many times .

So sorry , dave , I just Right . It's off from Bricio's comment and I'm like yes .

But this last one that came in submitted I wanted to make sure that I got to . I'm going to do that . This person said I feel like I'm the only person in my gym trying to improve things , but no other coaches are open-minded . I read books , I learned from podcasts and so on , but everyone else just seems to be putting in the minimal effort .

And yeah , I think the instant thing people jump to is like the old guard , the old people who don't want to change things . And I'm this young , like you know , very excited 20 , 30 year old . But in my experience actually , I think it's not really an ageism thing .

I think we talked a little bit how sometimes we have some younger staff who are a little bit going through the motions . I've worked with programs where the I'll call them the wiser people who have more years in the sport are actually the ones pushing the needle forward pretty hard and they feel like nobody else around them wants to do anything at all .

And I think it's tough . It really takes the winds out of your sails when you know everyone gets razzed up once a year to go to Congress and learns all these drills , but then , like two weeks after you get back , everyone's just doing the exact same things they always did . So my two cents on this .

The best way I've only ever found to motivate people is to have a conversation with people about what their goals are for working in the sport . So this could be a parent , this could be a coach , this could be a staff member , this could be a gym owner , whatever right .

You need to understand the context , specific nuances that a person has for working in a sport like gymnastics , and use those as your advantage to why somebody might want to change , and so in a way that five gymnasts in front of you one person cares about scores . One person cares about having fun with their friends .

One person cares about getting a college scholarship . One person cares about some skill that's always haunted them and want to be better . One person is like I don't know , I just kind of like it all . You know , like there's very different reasons for why people are motivated and they need different motivation techniques .

Adults are no different , right , and I can tell you bluntly that some of those things that people say are going to be selfish , and that's okay , you know . Some people say I love working with the kids and I love what I do for them , but , like , I like making a living .

That is something I enjoy doing and I need to make enough money to make it worth my while . I'm like that's totally okay , right ? So not everybody needs to have this pie in the sky . Love everybody goal of wanting to make everyone's life amazing .

It's okay to have some hard competitive goals , and I work with some programs that are very high level , and it's like our goal is to win a goddamn gold medal and it's like fair sounds good . You know what I mean .

Like we can work on that , and I think you have to understand what someone is motivated by in reverse , engineer steps to that thing getting better .

And so when I say that , it comes in the context of sometimes we tell athletes about like okay , well , if you want to flip a suit , here are the seven things you have to do every week or every day to get that goal , bit by bit .

And when you ask people what they're really motivated for and they say , well , I would love to have a team , a team of level eights . This year We've never been able to get a team of level eights together . We've always been working hard to have an optional team and it never quite works right .

Okay , well , if your goal is that , you have to realize that if it hasn't happened yet , maybe something needs to change right . Like , if you have four years where you haven't made a level eight team , maybe there's something that has to change right .

And so the best way to find what might need to change is to research and to have some conversations and try something different . And listen to a podcast , listen to a book , go to Congress or do whatever , and just try a few things that are different , because you know , if it was working , we wouldn't be having this conversation .

You know , and I want you to be happier . I want you to be , I want you to enjoy the sport , I want you to enjoy working in this area you are , and I want the kids to be happy as well . So let's try to find some ways that maybe you're the biggest frustrations for you and work on that backwards .

And then usually that person opens their mind up a little bit more and they're like , okay , well , you know , what's really frustrating for me is that , like you know , the girls aren't fast enough , you know like , and their form is a little funky . And it's so frustrating for me because , no matter how many drills I try , we just can't get their speed up .

It's like , okay , now we're talking . Now we're talking about something that you care about . That , you know , is frustrating . It's going to directly help your goal . I guarantee you , if everybody ran four meters per second faster , they would probably have a better chance of flipping their vaults and sticking them well and being happy , right .

So you kind of just go down that rabbit hole of okay , what like , what means to you , and you pull your way backwards into that and when you have that conversation over coffee outside the gym not in the heat of the moment you find common ground and on the back heels of that , not to believe in the point , but like that person in the back of their mind ,

either consciously or subconsciously , is like , this person cares about me , this person actually wants me to be happy and enjoy the sport and do that . They're not here just to , you know , cash in , cash out and then say like , okay , good luck , this person actually cares about you know me or the team or whatever we're doing .

And so I have tried many , many things to motivate young athletes and motivate , you know , I say young athletes , but sometimes the old adults that I work with and consulting meetings are more stubborn than the athletes that we work with .

So , like I've tried many , many things to try to help people change their ways , and that is the only thing that has ever worked is empathetically trying to understand what they're doing it for and why they want to change , and being okay with selfish and being okay Saying , hey , it's okay if paycheck or metal or score is part of that equation , we can work with

that , but yeah , so that's my and Dave , just to piggyback on that .

Sometimes people just don't fit . They just don't fit , and that's okay and we can try and try and try to help them fit the mission , fit the culture , fit in the gym , have the right approach , positive coaching model . It's not for everybody and that's okay . So we help them move on or do house , some house cleaning , so to speak .

But like , sometimes you have to let go of people , or just one person . Sometimes all it takes is letting go of one person . That is literally fueling the toxicity in your gym and it's amazing and Nadine is describing in this chat here that that's what she did and it must have been really hard and it sounds like it was really hard .

It sounds like you inherited quite a beast . So good for you for doing the hard thing when it was the right thing to do , right , dave ? You're so good at that , dave . Dave practices what he preaches on that end .

I think you're doing great and , honestly , everybody that's on this webinar right now it's like if you're here , then you care . If you're here , then you're doing the right thing . If you're here , then that's already a step towards improving whatever needs to be improved . So good on you for taking the time on a Thursday night . Is it Thursday ?

Yeah , thursday , thursday night . I just wanted to say that out loud before we're done .

You know , I think even I will probably tell you that as a fact that the first year or two we work together , there are so many things that I know I avoided .

I think we avoid because they were uncomfortable and we didn't have the muscle to do the thing nice and easy , because it was really hard , it was an uphill thing and you know , eva inherited quite a challenging gym and I entered shortly thereafter and it was really hard to do some of the things that easy .

It's easy for us to say right now like , oh , we'll just fucking leave the gym . You know , like , oh yeah , cool , cool on a zoom call when your whole livelihood doesn't depend on you , have two kids who are in the school system . Sounds good , bro . Like , I understand that's hard . Like , don't get me wrong .

But the first time I remember like the first really big struggle I had I love her to death . A girl that we coached was not the easiest to deal with . She was very talented but she came from a hard background and it was really hard to get her to not blow up a practice and spoil the mood and even those exactly what I'm talking about .

But the first time that I actually chose to have a conversation with her instead of letting her store muffin to the corner and be upset and ruin it for everybody , it was incredibly hard . I had like a gut wrenching stomach problem because , like , I don't want people to be upset with me .

But the first time I did it it was hard and it was awkward and it was not good , it was clunky , I said the wrong things , couldn't really get it out Right . But the third time it was a little bit easier and I was like I know what's going on here , I know this person's personality , I can kind of feel better about this .

And the seventh time I didn't think about it at all . It happened right away , right . And then two or three years later we have a new set of athletes that are older now and they're going through the same drama as I do .

Didn't even bother me , not even like , didn't even bother me at all to pull that person aside and say like hey , like listen , like are you okay , like you know something going on , or like you got to realize , like what you're doing now is not really acceptable for our cultural guidelines . And it was just smooth , it was very fluid , you know what I mean .

You just get better at them , and so I hope that people can maybe take some of the suggestions we had and be a little inspired to have that conversation , send that text message , you know , sit down with that person over coffee and be like Listen , we have to talk about this . You know this is hard .

I love you and I want you to be better , but like this is a problem . So , yeah , we'll keep it there , hannah , your message . Go back to the start of this recording . I don't want to talk about the private message to me , but we answered that question earlier and I think that will help you quite a bit .

So I'll put the recording up and then I'll send it to everybody as well . Michelle , let's see , I just want to drop a huge thank you before we finish . This is my first year of coaching level twos , level twos and I only ever did direct , you know so gymnastics . Your podcast has been so helpful . I'm grateful beyond words , and same take .

To put it together , you and Eva looking forward to the stoplight chart . You are too kind , michelle . Thank you .

I appreciate everyone taking time to read the book or read whatever finding useful , like it's cool for me , so I'm happy to do it , but yeah anyone have questions or comments that you want to say ? In person . Final call in person . It's okay if not .