Speaker 1 (00:00):
<silence>
Sandra Ingerman (00:32):
Hi everyone, I'm Sandra Engerman and welcome to the Shaman's Cave.
Renee Baribeau (00:37):
And I'm Renee Baribeau and we are both delighted to be here with you and each other. And just a reminder right now, hit the, like, in the subscribe button if you're on YouTube watching us, because that makes a big difference for us in reaching more people.
Sandra Ingerman (00:53):
Yeah. If you, if you find anything that we're sharing meaningful, a way to give back to us is to hit that subscribe button and to write a comment. 'cause YouTube, uh, really pays attention when people write comments.
Renee Baribeau (01:09):
So, exactly.
Sandra Ingerman (01:10):
Thanks for listening to our little promotion ad <laugh>.
Renee Baribeau (01:14):
And then we don't feel quite so alone, which is our topic today, where today we're talking about the, the feeling of loneliness lately. Come around four or five o'clock at night, when I get done with my very, very busy day, that usually goes from 6:00 AM when I write to then a full-time job. Uh, I, I've been finding myself almost despondent in a overwhelming pain of loneliness. And for the people who know me really well, know that I'm pretty happy go lucky. And so to be sitting with my own loneliness lately has been a real surprise and a real question of what's going on.
Sandra Ingerman (01:57):
Yeah. Well, um, I, I know for me, um, what happened for me because I, I was, Renee and I were, have been talking, and I'm also dealing with a lot of loneliness too. You know, in my 40 years of teaching, I taught so much. And, um, I'm a Capricorn and I have a Gemini rising. And so <laugh>, I always felt schizophrenic because my Capricorn just wanted to stay home. Um, I used to, um, I, I was telling Renee, I don't know how I used to get so much stuff done. 'cause I used to work 10 times more than I'm working now, but I used to sit on the couch and drink tea and watch the birds and read books, and how did I do that? So anyway, I used to sit on the couch and, uh, drink tea and watch the birds. And I used to say to myself, as soon as I'm 65, I'm gonna retire and I'm gonna give my Capricorn self what it always wanted, that I never have to talk to another person again in my whole entire life.
(03:06):
And so I've always felt schizophrenic. 'cause my Gemini and I have a sad moon. It's like, let's talk, let's share, let's, uh, talk about the cosmos and the most esoteric things and interventional beings. And, um, and then there's this part of me that just wants to sit, like, um, just sit and be. And so I've been dealing with this for my 40 years of teaching, and so now I'm 70 and I can't just sit on the couch <laugh> and watch the birds, which was what I always wanted. But I found that I missed my community and that that was what was really happening for me. And with the pandemic, with everything going online. Um, and I've shared this before in other shows and my workshops, um, we laugh so much. We have to take so many bathroom breaks and, um, <laugh> and we sing and we dance and we hug and we cry and we fight with each other and we love each other.
(04:14):
And it's just not the same online. You know, I've been a, a talking head. I haven't had the opportunity to really, um, connect with my students. And so I found myself, although, um, I'm married to the most amazing man on the planet, we're so in love. It's unbelievable. I found myself feeling really lonely, and it was about the lack of community. And so how I dealt with it, I've really been off of Facebook for my health. It's better for me to be off the computer, but I said to myself, you can just look for 10 minutes on Facebook. And there's my old friends, my old community posting things, and it just, um, it made my heart feel good, um, to be able to see some names that I knew again.
Renee Baribeau (05:10):
Hmm. That's, that's really wonderful. I was kind of doing an experiment this year. So after teaching the, uh, wind work apprenticeship for two years, I was wondering how the community would sustain itself without, you know, the, this month we're doing this, this, this, and this. And, you know, because I started to question whether online community was real, or was it just in that fleeting moment that I, I got something from it, or it got something from me. And I started to realize that, that that doesn't really matter if, if that online community gives you a sense of, oh, I am connected to other things. Even if it's a fleeting five minute, 10 minute, 30 minute while you're there, then maybe that's enough to sustain you through the day. And who am I to judge? But when I get to do the in-person retreats mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I really feel more full.
(06:11):
There's a more fullness. So for me, I'm, I'm having this campaign in my life right now about that. I really believe that we need to take a lot of the work home to our neighbors. And, and, uh, if you've watched me on Facebook that I'm the chairman of the beach committee, <laugh>, I live <laugh>. And so I'm a very, I'm a good community builder that way. And so the other day we had a picnic with 50 people, over 50 people there, and there was everyone from like two year olds to 80 year olds and maybe older, who knows. And, and you know, I noticed people were sitting in their lawn chairs, they were visiting, they're sitting around the fire. I did not hear one political discussion. I did not hear, and I, I might have been cooking the burgers and the dogs, so I might not have, you know, hearing it, but there was like people playing volleyball and, and, and then I put it on Facebook and they're like, oh yeah, we had a really, oh, well, my community is all distraught and disturbed. And I'm thinking like, yeah, that's a perception because I really believe we have more in common than we have indifference. And the fact that I was feeling lonely and I happened to call you for something, and I'm like, yeah, having this really overwhelming sense of loneliness when it didn't ever occur to me. Why don't you pick up the phone and call a, a friend or two <laugh>?
Sandra Ingerman (07:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, um, I, I think, I think that it's like, uh, the, the pandemic kind of, um, uh, it just changed a phase of life very quickly mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and people are, are, you know, uh, finding their ways back to it. Some people never left. You know, some people didn't, um, uh, believe in Covid and what was happening, and they kept their lives going. And some people really stepped out of life and, you know, uh, really, um, sheltered and tried to take care of their health. And, and now people, it's like, um, uh, one of the metaphors I used in my newsletter was, it's like, um, it's like the chips are now thrown up in the air mm-hmm.
Renee Baribeau (08:30):
<affirmative>, you
Sandra Ingerman (08:30):
Know, something changed and we don't know where the chips are falling yet. And people are trying to find, okay, I was living my life. I went through this, I believe the pandemic was a shamanic initiation. I went through this initiation where my own soul and the universe has asked me to make changes in my life. And it's like, okay, I got that. I have to make changes in my life, and now the chips are thrown up in the air, and what does that mean? And it, does that mean I now create more community and, and, um, get off by a flip phone and get off the computer? Uh, doesn't mean I, I wanna finally do the hobby that I always wanted to do. Um, you know, it, it's, there was a big, there was a big event that happened and is still happening, and for a lot of people, they're still in it. And, um, and now it's, okay, so what's next?
Renee Baribeau (09:43):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and it's really not even what's next, what's now, you know, like I have a few friends who carry flip phone, Sandra, and it's just like, I'm like, how do you, you know, how do you get by with the flip phone? And they seem to get by just fine. Like, how do we get by when the phone was over on the, you know, the standover there and you went off of the day and, you know, then you didn't even have answering machines back when we started. But, you know, so we're at that same kind of a transformation between when the phone was sitting on the, on the, the stand to when we, you know, now have this whole new transformational time no matter what you believed or didn't believe, a big shakeup just happened in the world. Right. Doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on, we got shooken up and here we're standing now.
(10:33):
And how, how do we find it? And it is like, you know, sometimes when I was looking at the loneliness the other day and there like, Renee, is this an shamonic initiation for bigger than you? Are you feeling into the loneliness of all of the people around you that are connected to you, that are feeling lonely? Or is this your personal loneliness? And I thought, well, now there's an interest. And to me, sometimes that doesn't matter if I'm feeling your loneliness or my loneliness, it still feels like this. Like, it like, it's like a tin can ripping open this wound that I haven't experienced in, in, in decades. Mm-hmm.
Sandra Ingerman (11:19):
<affirmative>. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think for me, um, I, well, I've had so many different adventures in my life and so many different lives. I've led so many different lives in this lifetime. But I, when I was in school, uh, when I was in, in, uh, San Francisco State, uh, studying for marine biology, I had a strong community. Um, and, but everybody had, uh, partners and so on weekends I had nobody to hang out with. And I was really lonely. I really experienced an amazing amount of loneliness. And, and then my life kind of went berserk. I got into shamanism and it went the other way. And it went, I wanna be lonely,
Renee Baribeau (12:12):
<laugh>,
Sandra Ingerman (12:13):
Um, can I get that feeling back again? And, and there's just, um, there's so many states that we go through and I think that, uh, there's a, a bunch of different thoughts for me. Some of it has to do about just acknowledging where you are mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And when you don't fight it and you acknowledge it, you know, just using, um, the example of energy, if you're fighting an energy, it blows up. And if you meet an energy, it transforms. And so, you know, to really feel what you're feeling. And, and then in the last years, for me, um, because I've been dealing with a rare, uh, health issue, there's a lot of loneliness for, even though I'm in a community of others who are dealing with the same thing, we have this, it's so rare. We have something that nobody can understand. You try to explain it, you know, we talk on Facebook.
(13:22):
How many times did you try to explain what's going on to you for another person? I try to explain it a hundred times. They just can't get it <laugh>. Um, and so that immediately makes you feel lonely. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you're living a life among hundreds of people. You, you know, I'm teaching, I'm on the phone. I'm with my husband, I'm with friends, and nobody understands what I'm going through. And I think that that's true for, I just happen to have a rare, um, disorder. But I think that, that, that feels, um, true for me for a lot of people, even if they're not dealing with something rare. Um, when you're doing a lot of inner work and when you're making a lot of changes in your life, even, uh, making consciousness changes, there's oftentimes a real existential loneliness that comes mm-hmm. <affirmative> because she actually realized that you're, you are alone on this journey.
Renee Baribeau (14:28):
Absolutely. That last wind breath out will be your own. And we're gonna talk about that in our next one. I was thinking about what you were, were just talking about. 'cause when you were talking about it, I could feel that existential loneliness. I mean, I'm a empath, and so as an empath I've learned that, that I can hold that space for another person without having to enter it, try to fix it, try to change it. Not with everybody, but with some people. I do it way better than, you know, than my own, you know, tight, tight circle. But that I, I came up with this exercise recently for, for Facebook about, um, we just read, so it's one of the new exercises in my book, but we read so much about tragedy and so much people always are sharing about losing a pet. And, you know, and you're just, your heart could be bleeding all day long if you just go through your Facebook thread that I put this idea of, you know, kissing with the wind and doing, you know, that little care emoji.
(15:32):
So my little, my, I'm, I'm kissing you with the wind and sending you my little care emoji. And I just find that it's a really nice way of, of honoring that we witness somebody's experience of loneliness or death or loss. And somehow in doing that, it gives me a sense of connection that I'm connected to you, that I'm connected to these people who really need that connection, because otherwise, you know, would they be sharing that if they didn't need it to be heard and or seen? And I think that we have, we, we can do more of that for other people without sloshing around in their business. But just breathing into that, that, that wind of compassion for ourselves and for other people, knowing that if you're listening to Sonder and I, and, and we're, you know, we're pillars of this channel, we're champions of this cause and we're telling you that yes, in the afternoon I'm going into some deep loneliness and I go water the plants and it, and it moves, but that it doesn't move without me saying, Hey, old friend, I see you. I believe you. And there's obviously something here I still need to uncover. And lucky I have Sandra say, well, you're writing a book, so you get to live that book. <laugh>,
Sandra Ingerman (17:03):
I can be very helpful at times, <laugh>,
Renee Baribeau (17:06):
And then we laugh <laugh>.
Sandra Ingerman (17:09):
Yeah. I guess, I guess that's why I did the shamans or gardeners of energy page is just like, God, I need to time out from tragedy. And I found myself, I found that my state started to shift when I could look at beautiful photos mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and beautiful posts. Um, you know, just kind of taking a time out. But we also don't wanna get into a place of a spiritual bypass, and we wanna be compassionate to what's happening for other people. I think for me, my whole life, and it's changing, I'm changing so drastically right now. I can barely keep up
Renee Baribeau (17:52):
<laugh>.
Sandra Ingerman (17:54):
My husband loves it because I'm like completely, completely, I'm not the woman married.
Renee Baribeau (18:05):
I'm
Sandra Ingerman (18:05):
Just moving into a really good place no matter what, no matter what. And, um, but that wasn't what my, what my life was. You know, my, my life was, you know, coming, um, you know, I come from Brooklyn and immigrant family, just an amazing amount of tragedy. And what happened for me is I took it all on, I ate it, I swallowed it. A lot of my neighbors committed suicide, and I really loved them. I, I was only eight, nine years old. Um, hearing gunshots going off into some, um, so what happened for me was I just started eating people's pain. Can I relieve people of their pain by eating it? And um, and, uh, luckily I didn't get sick, but I became suicidally depressed. And when I realized what my depression was about, it had nothing to do with me. I had a good life.
(19:13):
Um, I had the, the normal challenges everybody has. Um, I struggled a lot, but, um, but things were good. And, um, and so I had to learn because I, I got my master's in counseling psychology, and I'm a licensed therapist, so I had to learn the difference between my pain and other people's pain. And, um, and that's a big one. We, we really, there's a difference between being an empath and being compassionate. And what Isis, who I work with, and I wrote this in medicine for the Earth, she yelled at me that if I was an empath, that I wasn't doing shaman work. Because if I was an empath filled with people's pain and in shamanism, I'm supposed to be a hollow bone for the spirits, how are the spirits supposed to get, get all the pain that I'm holding so they can help the person?
(20:15):
And I'm getting hurt from the pain. So, so it's still a struggle for me. I wrote medicine for the Earth back in the, in the late 1990s, and I'm still trying to understand the difference between compassion and empathy, because it's just a natural thing to feel we're all, we're all one, so we're all gonna feel. But the change that's happening, where I'm trying to go with this is I'm realizing through our spiritual practices, if we go deep enough, if we really spend time not on Facebook, but really out in nature and really doing our work, it is a lot of work. And please don't judge me for saying this. Um, I have come to the place of realizing we all have the opportunity no matter what our life is like through the spiritual practices that have been taught for thousands of years, every one of us has an opportunity to turn our life into a better place. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And in understanding that we all have the same exact power. I stop taking on people's pain
Renee Baribeau (21:35):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Sandra Ingerman (21:36):
Because we all have the same power, and I'm trying to work through my pain right now. And so I can be compassionate. So I'm finally in a place of being compassionate without taking on. And, um, and, and, and that feels like a, a good place to be. 'cause I can really honor people's strengths. I can really see the strength and the tools that they have available to them. And that's a place of power for, for all of us. And that takes us out of a place of loneliness when we tap into our personal strength and our personal connection. You know, I feel connected to everybody now, and I feel that we all have this amazing opportunity and I wonder how many of us are going to accept it, um, and move out of a place of loneliness. And, um, I'm borrowing a term from somebody else's podcast. Um, uh, it is time for us to get off the struggle bus <laugh> <laugh>, and, um, and, and we can do it, you know, we can do it, but we really have to focus on the spiritual work that we know can transform loneliness or whatever state that we're in.
Renee Baribeau (23:00):
Hmm. I really think that just, you know, said it pretty beautifully and, and to actually to end this, because we, our, our next subject is gonna back to back with this. The, the thing is, is that for me to be able to, to stop, like, I banged my leg pretty bad about a month ago and I tripped over and now my heel won't even let me take a walk. So, so I'm having this experience where I have to sit with myself. And so if you have those experiences where you have to really sit with yourself, and if you like me who go, go, go, go, go do it. There. There's like, it's such rich earth to sit here and look at what's going on within me that brings up this, you know, this, this moment of that I get to look at the time when I was six and I was lonely, or the time that I was 20 that I was lonely, or the time that in my sixties that I'm lonely, but not to feel sorry for myself, but as a place while Wow, look at how I get to plant and bloom new, new seeds here with this.
Sandra Ingerman (24:15):
That's beautiful. I absolutely love that. And I think that we should start out next show with that second. Okay.
Renee Baribeau (24:22):
<laugh>. All right. We'll, so make sure you like us and tell us about your, how you're dealing with your own loneliness, because if we're both here as leaders dealing with it, I'm sure many of you at home are dealing with this as well. So this would be a really good place to share your tools.
Sandra Ingerman (24:41):
Yeah, we'd love to. Um, you know, I am on the Facebook shaman, shamans gave Facebook, Facebook page more, and people are starting to not so much share, uh, quotes from other people. There are some people starting to ask questions from their heart and starting to share from their heart. And thank you for doing that, because that creates community. Hmm. And so we can create stronger community so that we don't feel lonely and that we have a spiritual family if we speak from our heart and stop trying to advertise our work and stuff, trying to quote others, but speak from our heart. We have an incredible opportunity.
Renee Baribeau (25:26):
<laugh> just one final note on that. 'cause I'm gonna share a post today that I, it's a quote from somebody else, but when, if I'm gonna share a quote from somebody else, I tell you why it's resonating for me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, like, what is, what does this mean for me in my life? What does this help me move through? So think about it taking a little bit longer, a little bit more thoughtful approach to why you're even moved by that other person's words. Mm-hmm.
Sandra Ingerman (25:55):
<affirmative>, I like that.
Renee Baribeau (25:57):
So, well great. Well, we'll see you soon and we look forward to it. And as always, thank you for all those people who send us donations and support. This is a self-supporting show and we are happy to be here with you.
Sandra Ingerman (26:11):
Thank you everyone. Thank you for the brilliant work that you're doing. Thank you for subscribing to us and thank you for listening to us. Have a beautiful day or night.