This episode of the Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is brought to you by Confluence by Atlassian, the connected workspace where teams can create, organize, and deliver work like never before. Set knowledge free with Confluence.
Get ready for a game changer. Adobe Express is the quick and easy app that makes creating content for your business easier than ever. From engaging presentations to eye-catching animations and social posts, your teams can produce work that's on brand and on time. every time transform your ideas into standout content with time-saving generative ai features that are designed to be safe for commercial use no headaches just results curious to learn more head to adobe.com forward slash
Hey, I'm Ben Stiller. I'm Adam Scott. And this is the Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam. where we break down every episode of Severance. Today, we're recapping Season 1, Episode 8, What's for Dinner? Written by Chris Black and directed by the one and only Ben Stiller. Ben, second to last recap, or as they say, penultimate recap of season one. How are you rating this show that you made overall on rewatch? Scale one to 10. Thank you.
I'm not good at judging my own work. Okay. So I have been enjoying if I'm like, if I'm reading the process, I've been enjoying the process a lot. Yeah. It's been fun to go back in, you know, and have the different experiences of watching the episodes. with some time in between talking to everybody about them. Sometimes pleasantly surprised at something and other times looking at it and going, oh, I wish I did that differently too.
Always too. Um, but overall I think it's been great and fun and, uh, I'm super excited too, uh, for today cause of. who's on our show. Yeah, me too. Me too. I think also rewatching the show with the intention of discussing it and digging into it is a different experience too. And that's been really fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and also as we roll into season two, kind of looking back at season one and thinking about all the things that we thought about when we were making season two.
And the little details from season one that sometimes I go, oh, there are actually some things I actually look at and go, wait a minute. I forgot we did that. Yeah. Maybe I shouldn't admit that, but. No, I see that stuff all the time, and it's really fun. Also, just incidentally, I'd rate this episode of the podcast that we've done so far as a 12 out of 10. Wow. Yeah. Wow.
All right. That's great. Maybe we should stop here. No, it's going to get even bigger and better because Totoro is coming on. Oh my God. You're right. Today we are joined. by the legendary and Emmy Award-winning actor, writer, and director, John Turturro, who we know and love on Severance as Irving. John. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for doing this. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Very excited to have you here. So excited. As we were excited when you joined the cast.
Back when we were starting the show. As was I. Yeah, that was a, that was a big thing for us when you said you were interested and we met and talked and, uh, I remember we had a nice, uh. We had a nice meal out in Brooklyn. Yes. We talked about stuff. It's always good to read great material. And I also, you know, sort of very grateful had been thought of me in doing something that I hadn't done.
before that that's always a big uh incentive and compliment and you say wow i don't i'm not sure how good i will be doing this thing but i i love to do things that i haven't done before And I was a fan of, you know, a bunch of films that been directed right from the beginning. Was it Reality Bites? Yeah, that was my first. That's right. Yeah, I remember seeing that. And of course, I'm...
obsessed with the documentary of Tropic Thunder, which I consider a documentary. When we met and we talked with Dan and everything, I thought the... The scripts were excellent, and my major concern was who would be the apple of my affection. And then I suggested at the dinner Chris, because I've worked with Chris so many times. And I know Ben knows him, and I just really love something about Chris, the child that's sort of within him with this man who has this great...
experience, and he's very skilled, too. We always have a lot of fun together. I mean, Chris being Chris Walken, Christopher Walken, the great Chris Walken. Sir Walken. Yeah. I mean, that was pretty funny the way that all developed, you know, because we did have that dinner. And I remember at the dinner when we were talking, I think Dan Erickson was there. We talked about who might be Bert. And you mentioned Chris. And I just like secretly, I kind of just there was like a little bit of a.
I had a mini kind of explosion inside of me, as you said. And I was like, oh, this is great. And yeah. And then you said, like, I can reach out to him or I can, you know, see if he's in. And I was like, all right, well, if you're going to do that. I'll be happy to do whatever we need to do. And I know Chris a little bit because my dad...
worked with him back in the 80s. And Hurley Burley. And Hurley Burley, a play that Mike Nichols directed and Chris Walken and William Hurt and Sigourney Weaver and my dad, Jerry Stiller and Harvey Keitel. Just amazing cast. Wow. And Chris and my dad became very...
close during that. And I think knew each other over the years beforehand too. And, but you know, he's still Christopher Walken to me as a fan. I'm just always, you know, you know, slightly intimidated as, as honestly, John, I didn't really know you that well.
before we started working together. And I was, I was a little bit intimidated too, because I think you're a great actor and director. And, you know, I know you're very like, like you're really serious about the work. And I, and that to me was. exciting because I thought, okay, if you see something in this, you know, I was curious, what was it that you saw in it when you first read it? What was it that it... I thought it was so original.
I thought it was so original, and I thought the characters were all really delineated really well. And I thought, you know, obviously you'd put... you know, a lot of thought into it. And I thought, wow, if you have the right combination of people, you know, this could be really interesting. And, you know, the group that you put together, you know, of Adam leading and Britt and Zach and Trammell and Patricia, you know, it's a really good group and everyone works really well together.
I've had plenty of experiences working with people who are wonderful actors. It's like a one-way street. And when it's not that way, you can create this space between.
the characters you know and so to me that's the most interesting thing and also getting to know people you know you don't know someone i didn't know anyone really except for chris and so you learn how to work together and you start to say oh this is what the person likes and and you know my job is sort of to bring all my homework and everything i do but also to plug in yeah to your brain and to dan's brain to say okay
This is what they're going for. And it takes a little adjustment at times. I always think at the beginning, everyone's nervous. And it doesn't matter who they are. They're nervous. You make choices, and sometimes the choices are too big. They're too small. They're not brave enough. And then once you establish that, then you can go a lot of different places. And then you develop a shorthand.
And, you know, I could tell a lot of times, okay, you know, you want a variation and, okay, let me spin it this way, let me spin it that way. But so that's always a joy for me, you know, to discover. you know, the chemistry between the people that I'm working with. And to me, that's maybe even more important or as important as a script.
It was really fun over season one, particularly at the beginning with the four of us in MDR, remember us, sort of getting to know each other and getting to know how each of us works and all of us starting to, like you said, like... take some chances on whether it's too big or too small or whatever, but trying something out and knowing that we would be supported by the other three. Yeah. Yeah. I watched that happen. I mean, I think I felt it too as a director.
Sort of starting to feel more comfortable. I remember the first few days We were shooting some stuff and sit in the hallways or something and you came in with the Irving voice and I was like, and I didn't know you were going to do that voice. And I was, and so the first time I heard it, I was like, whoa. Whoa. And it was really specific and it was really committed and I liked it, but I was also like, you know, it came out of nowhere and, and.
I remember I was like, okay. And something is, you know, it's interesting, like as a director, you feel like sometimes you have to like kind of... say something or you have to like check in on it and i wasn't sure honestly like the first time i heard i wasn't sure i was like wow this is like a really this is a really committed choice now obviously wasn't not sure that you
you know would be good doing it but it was a choice and i do you remember like i had a little conversation yeah i remember yeah oh yeah i remember exactly i remember exactly and i i said let me listen to it And I listened to it, and I said, you know what? I need to just pull that back a little bit. Yeah. No, but you said, but I don't think I gave you any direction on other than I said, are you like, is this like, tell me? Yeah. Are you sure? You said, are you sure? And I was like.
I'm not sure of anything, really. But no, once I listened to it, I just thought, okay, you're still in a virginal state. And as a director, I didn't want to like... because by the way like I once did that on a movie where I like I did like a New York like more of a New York accent and the director like freaked out about it and it got me and I got really I stood my ground like no I'm gonna do this and I don't know if he ever was like happy that I did it and I don't
But I also know as an actor, I don't want to get, I don't want the director in my head, like questioning a choice I'm making. Cause you want to feel like, okay, like, let me go with this thing and explore it and not be self-conscious about it. And. I swear to you, by the end of the week, I couldn't imagine the character sounding any other way.
Yeah. It was just, you know what I mean? By the end of the week, the first week of shooting, it was just like, okay, this is Irving. And it's like, of course this is Irving. Right. You know? Right, right. But that's... You know, we're all getting to know each other and someone's trying something. And sometimes, you know, it's...
I mean, there are times where people do things and you just go, well, that's out of the ballpark. You know, that's not, that's not in the vicinity. I've been there, you know, you're like, whoa, I don't think this is going to, you know. But sometimes it's just the little adjustments. And also there's so many questions about these characters that we don't know.
in terms of who their Audi is, you know, what their outside life is, where they come from that we don't know as an audience intentionally. And then there's the, you know, the interaction, like you're saying, between the actors, which I think is such an important thing, what you're talking about. that chemistry, because that's really what makes something that works, I think, you know, that when that just happens and you guys develop that. Right. I remember also there's a moment in episode three.
When you pull Mark aside and you say, uh, we should take her to the perpetuity wing. Right. Right. And that was for me. And Adam, I know I remember talking to you because it was sort of very early on. There was such an intensity.
a belief, an understanding of why it was important to take her to the perpetuity wing that told me so much about Irving in terms of his... commitment to the ideology or the, right, the Keir, Lumen, you know, the rules and the mythology that you'd been taught and abided by and lived by.
To me, that moment, I was like, oh, this is why the show can work, because John Turturro as Irving is saying, you have to take her to perpetuity wing, and I believe him, that there's such a depth there that I don't even know if it was even there. in the writing of that scene. Well, there was an opening to go down deep, you know, to go to descend in your elevator, you know, which is sort of a metaphor for acting.
And sometimes, you know, when I've worked with different directors who are even, you know, great directors, I always think sometimes, well, what are they good at and what is my job? What can I do to surprise them? a little bit to give them you know a gift back you know and because i think you know that's that's kind of your job is to give them something that maybe they haven't thought of they because they have to think of so many things
And it would make Mark's character have to deal with this guy who has this kind of belief. Personally, I'm very afraid of cults. I really am afraid of them. You know, there were certain buildings I crossed the street. I go like, I don't want to be even in front of the building, you know? So.
It was fun to kind of delve into that. What was that like, Adam, for you when you were doing that scene? It was the first real one-on-one time scene that I had with John, so I was nervous about it. But that... kind of fervent stance he was taking there with the perpetuity wing like you're saying it was just crystal clear this was everything to irving this was everything and it really helped me because i was still you know, defining all the corners.
of mark and mark had to be a believer in the place in order to you know become disillusioned with it but he had to be in between someone like irving and then someone like dylan or heli or something like that so it really helped me kind of find the gradations of where Mark falls in the kind of lumen lore of it all. But yeah, I mean it was just – I remember that as a big moment as well. It's really fun and it's really fun to watch.
And also, you say, you know, a gift that you give the director, which that's exactly what it is. But it's also obviously a gift for the audience, too, because everybody's getting to watch it. But there are these moments there that I think, for me... you know having spent a lot of time and editing it and so you look at the material and you look at the takes and all of that as you know as a director you know when you find that okay that take or that that moment that you want to
choose that just stick with me like that moment in that scene and there's I can think of you know two or three or four other ones across the series that for me are sort of like those moments whenever I see them, I'm like so grateful that they're there because they just, I don't know, what is that thing when you see somebody have a moment that's real?
that just pulls you into something in a way that there's no separation between what you're watching and what it is because it feels real even though it's a tv show that's you know crazy I think, you know, the whole idea is to give it away, you know, obviously to the audience. But I always think of, like, you're going to be in that room looking at all this footage. So, you know, you want to give someone...
choices and as much complexity, you know, as is required. Yeah, that's great. And maybe just before we start talking about the episode, your relationship. with Chris Walken, you guys have known each other for a long time and you've directed him a few times, right? I had worked with him as an actor once before in Search and Destroy. And we definitely got along.
I've directed him three different times. I directed him once as a theater critic, like an Oscar Wilde critic in Illuminata. And he's a very interesting guy because he's confident, but he's very humble. He's a very humble person, and it's easy to get something going between the both of you. And I've seen him on stage when I was a student at Yael Drama School, and I've seen him do a lot of plays.
He's a really tremendously talented guy. I know everyone imitates him and stuff like that, but he's so sensitive. You can just touch his hand and it's like electric. So it's so easy to be... in love with yeah yeah and watching you guys work on those scenes across the season was always such a treat to kind of watch how you guys interacted and just sort of played with each other and allowing just the energy to kind of develop. Yeah. Those scenes are just so special. Yeah. Yeah.
John, I just want to go back to the beginning of the conversation. Just one thing I wanted to ask you. When you said that the show was something that you had never done before, do you mean like the genre or the – The character, what were you referring to? Both, both, both. The genre and the character. And I thought, oh, this is something I could sort of, you know, morph into. You know, I mean, I love kind of...
you know, the whole chameleon, you know, approach to something, you know, I love when someone asks me to do something that they haven't seen me do. And I feel like whenever that's, I get that opportunity. It's always an exciting one. Maybe we should take a break and then come right back and then we can recap episode eight. At Lumen, things are not always what they seem. Mark, Dylan, Helly, and Irving in MDR make a great team, but what else lies beyond the four white walls of their department?
There seem to be more questions than answers as the secrets of Lumen are slowly revealed. There's definitely a lot more going on than you see. It's a little bit creepy. I agree. There are more Q's than A's in this place. Yeah, for sure. But luckily, your workplace doesn't have to be so dysfunctional thanks to Confluence by Atlassian. I feel like something like Confluence could really help those severed workers, you know? They're kind of always organizing and trying to come up with group ideas.
things that need organization and back and forth and a lot of creative interaction in the workspace. Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before. where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for, while discovering important contexts they didn't even know they needed. a space where AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize, and deliver work faster.
In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year. I think any boost in productivity, especially with a group like the severed group, imagine how many more files they could complete if they had Confluence. Set knowledge free with Confluence. Learn more at Atlassian.com slash confluence. That's A-T-L-A-S-S-I-A-N dot com slash C-O-N-F-L-U-E-N-C-E. Whether you're a true crime junkie or just getting into it, you're going to love
Crime House True Crime Stories, a Crime House original podcast. Every Monday, you'll go on an in-depth journey through two of the most notorious true crime cases from that week in history, all connected by a common theme. From notorious serial killers to chilling disappearances and tragic murders, we're bringing you the defining events that shaped true crime, both past and present.
Crime House True Crime Stories dives into the full stories behind the headlines, covering high-profile cases like the murder of Gabby Petito, the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart, the Heaven's Gate cult tragedy, and plenty of other... Cases You May Not Know But Won't Forget. Follow and listen to Crime House True Crime Stories and Odyssey Podcast in partnership with Crime House Studios. Available now on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts.
Okay, episode eight opens in Irving's home. So we're with his Audi. He's drinking black coffee and cranking Motorhead's Ace of Spades and then just going to town on a painting. So this is... Sort of the Irving is super cool reveal in a sense. It is so satisfying to learn that this character we've been rooting for all season is super cool and interesting in the outside world. First of all, Ben, this motorhead.
song ace of spades how did that fit in or john did you have something to do with it or yeah no i i credit my director i yeah you know we knew we wanted to have a fun song and you know like i was i think i've said before i have this sort of like severance playlist you know
that over the course of the years making the show that we create, and we're thinking of different fun, you know, high-energy songs, and that one just somehow felt right. And I think on a lot of levels, it kind of, it's interesting, too, you know, when we... start to learn more about Irving's backstory. But John, I remember when we talked about the scene, you were really specific about this process of Irving painting.
that you knew you had a sense of it in terms of, I just remember you had a really clear idea of how you wanted to do it. Well, yeah, I mean, I was, I was practicing a lot, you know, in my dressing room during the other episodes, but, uh, I have a lot of painters in my family and things. And I was thinking, well, here's this guy who's really regimented. And a lot of the times these people, they have a whole other life.
you know and i had done a lot of background stuff but when you played that song i thought wow this is great because i had the song and then i i had been practicing the painting and how we would paint it and you were telling me you know use your hands more do that As I've gotten more experience, sometimes you have these sequences where you don't talk.
but you have something to do. And you kept saying, you know, paint faster there and use your hands more with it and more like an action painter, you know. And one of my uncles was an abstract painter. It was real. And he's also searching for something, you know, as he's doing, he's, he's trying to figure something out at the same time. And I remember it was really, I felt like a really great collaboration with him in that. And it was without words.
But you gave me, you know, and I was like, okay, we're like rock and rolling now. Yeah, I felt that too. It was so much fun. And then honestly, the last part of it was Jeff Richman, our editor, just when we put it together, he was so... into it too you know and it just has such an energy to it um and yeah says so much about irving on the outside that without words uh you know that we all of a sudden we have a whole new character that we're that we're meeting and we see as you're
Squeezing out the black paint, that sort of black goo that... really uh looks a lot like all those dreams from earlier right i got i got the info from doug coleman who's our special effects person who doug by the way i've worked with on movies over the years in new york is one of the prominent special effects people he's also the guy who
makes all our snow for real and all the other crazy actual practical effects in the show. And he said it's from Blair Adhesives, this company that is the same company that makes the slime for Nickelodeon. It's not the same material, not the same composite, but they obviously know how to make gooey, drippy stuff really well. By the way, I was talking earlier about some of those scenes where I had these memorable moments.
The wellness scene, this is way back, I guess it's in. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. With Miss Casey. Great Miss Casey. Well, she was brilliant in the scene. And, you know, you think about what leaks in from his Audi, you know, obviously he has a vocabulary and stuff, but you're still in this kind of altered childish state or childlike state.
but I just thought she was so good. And the way you did it, I mean, it's, a lot of these things are so challenging and a lot of it has to do with how you listen and, you know, the point of view that you've developed. to help your listening, you know, from that. And he is starved. He's so, he's so happy when he hears certain, like, yeah. I mean, so much of this is really, you know, the only thing, I think when I read it.
and working on the show, there was this Kubrickian approach to it. Even Adam's character and how you, Ben, went about it. I never worked with Kubrick. I almost worked with Kubrick, but I didn't say the right thing. to Stanley. Which movie? Well, I can talk about it. It's over now. He wanted me to be in Eyes Wide Shut. There was a character that Todd Field played eventually that was supposed to be in the beginning, the middle, and the end, but they cut the end. And he...
They said he was going to talk to me, and he did call me up. And I had a two-hour conversation with him. And I kept thinking, well, this is a joke. You know, it can't be Stanley Kubrick. And he was like, you know, I know every film you've ever made. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, well, I know all the films you make. And he said, you know, I wrote the part for you. And I think you're a really wonderful actor. I was embarrassed. And I said, well, thank you. And he said, well, you are.
And I said, well, I can't walk around my house telling my wife that I'm a wonderful actor, you know, because she'll hit me with a frying pan. And then at the end, he said, you know, how can I get you the script? It was in the 90s. I said, well, you could FedEx it to me. And he said, well, what if you're not home? And I said, well, my FedEx man throws it over my gate. I said, I know him. His name is Ray.
And he said, that's unbelievable. The mind doesn't do that. I said, well, do you talk to your FedEx man? He said, no. I don't know his name. So he said, okay, let's say you, I shouldn't go off. Let's say you get it, you read it, you like it. Then what do we do? I said, well, then we'll, you know, we'll work it out. He said, but I heard next year you may do a film.
This was a year away. He said, you want to direct something? I said, well, I directed one film. I'm not a director. I said, he said, yes, but what would we do? And I said, well, you know, we'd work it out, obviously. You know, whatever. I didn't say, you know. Forget it. You're first. That's what he wanted me to say. And after talking to him for two hours, the next day, they called me up and they said, Stanley said, you're not available. What?
Because I wasn't available for two years. By the way, you really would have had to have been available for two years. Yeah. I would have been replaced, probably. A lot of people were replaced. But I wanted to see what that experience of the 100 take thing was. Yeah, that's incredible. But so when I was on this show, I kept thinking about that kept coming into my brain. I never really told you.
I was thinking like, you know what? This is better anyway. I'm better off being here. The one decision I ever made that could compare with Stanley Kubrick favorably is that I hired you for this. Well, no, I'm telling you.
kept going through my brain because I certain certain you know yeah I think he's in I think he's in all our brains you know in terms of just his influence on on film and I can't imagine what that's like to have Stanley Kubrick say to you I wrote a part for you yeah yeah and then he asked me about all the actors what do you think of this person
What do you think of that person? Of course I'm going to say, you know, they're good. All the actors, all the actors he was thinking of hiring or that he had all for. Yeah, he had hired. Yeah. He wanted to know about, you know, what I thought about Tom and everything. He's like, he's terrific. That's amazing. That's an amazing story. So at least I had that experience. So I figured I'd share that. That is incredible. Well, I want to ask John just what is it that –
You knew about your Audi kind of walking in, the conversations you and Ben and Dan had about it. Dan gave me a whole backstory and I did a lot of research. on that backstory to see, you know, what would be the remnants of that for his inning. Right. And so, you know, I was looking forward to that, but then...
You know, once we decided that he had a leather jacket, and then Ben really liked the leather jacket, and then he paints. Well, I figured he likes painting, and he likes classical music and all that stuff. But when Ben put that song on, I was like, oh, man. This is great. This is like the secret. Yeah. This is the secret Irving, you know, who goes to the underground clubs and stuff. Who knows, right? Yeah, who knows. Who knows, you know.
I mean, all of us have surprises. And that's, you know, that's the funny thing about this show, too, is like a lot of it is like, you know, we don't say what the backstory is, obviously, you know, for the audience. But there's also the influence of... a wardrobe choice of you know right like all of a sudden it's like wait i was thinking this or you know here's and the feeling of what that is that even though it's all thought out ahead of time and incredibly specific i feel like these
choices in the moment are, can really affect everything too. And you have to be open to that too. That's right. Absolutely. And that he has a dog. That's really interesting to me too. Yeah. Radar. Radar. Yes. Your Audi likes the sound of radar. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of the man with his dog. That dog, by the way, is named Ditto, the actor. and ditto yes is also known for being in succession that's right yeah we had to work around this availability for the star
Okay, let's get into what the other folks at MDR are up to. Back in Lumen, Heli is scrambling to meet quota. John, did you have any personal theories while we were shooting or otherwise about... What the numbers are, what they mean, what they're for? I would usually defer to Zach.
And we'd have these discussions, you know, but, but Zach, of course, Zach had all the theories numbers or was enamored of those. Yes. You know, I had various theories, but obviously, like in anything, when you're in a factory, if you're counting and you're trying to get to a certain number, you may not know. what that number actually means. But I did have...
But I would change it because I would talk to Zach. But I thought that was something important, at least in the state that we were in, that they needed this information. that we were breaking down a certain kind of statistic that they need. Yeah, you would think it's important. I had various scenarios. Yeah, and then when Helly hits 100%, there's the animated video of Kear Egan comes up.
Which is sort of like this really kind of rudimentary video screen animation. Like from Apple II era. Yes. Animation, yeah. That was Jeff Mann who... Came on as a consultant who designed that, who I've worked with as a production designer over the years. Incredibly. Love Jeff. Yeah. Very, very talented guy. Because it's actually interesting to me. I love, again, Irving's complete investment when he's watching the congratulatory silly little video as if it's...
as if you're like meeting the Pope or something. I mean, it's so important. That's this fascinating thing about this moment is that even though we're all kind of banding together to rebel against this place, when this video plays, both Mark and especially Irving get really excited and have all this reverence for this guy in this video. And yeah, should we play that little moment?
Even in your darkest moments, I could see you arriving here. In refining your macro data file, you have brought glory to this company and to me, Kier Egan. I... I love you. But now I must away, for there are others who need me around the world. Goodbye, L.E.R. And thank you. So, Ben, that voice, it sounds familiar. Yes. Some guy.
Yeah. Well, it's not the real Keir Egan because we hear the real Keir Egan recording in episode three. Right. In Petey's head and in the perpetuity wing. But this is some actor that they hired to do the voice for. the congratulatory animated video. Obviously an out-of-work actor who needed the gig. Really needed the work. Probably a guy who had a couple of callbacks for Severance but couldn't get in. Sure.
Uh, yeah, stuff really gets me, man. I don't know what it is. I just listened to it. I'm like, yeah, wow. But I also, I also love at this point, like where. Where Irving's arc really is, in my mind, when I look at it, like a guy who's a true believer who becomes disillusioned or whatever it is that allows you to make that choice to...
to be a part of this sort of insurrection, if you will. Yeah. But you're right. It's a much tougher armor to pierce with Irving. Yeah. I think it's, you know, because, you know, what happens personally to him just sends him, you know. Yeah. This is what happens to people sometimes who believe so much in something and then they get really disappointed and really let down. And that was a...
the challenging thing to do. And I, I, I enjoyed doing it, but it was, it was challenging. Yeah. All right, let's take a quick break and we'll get into the waffle party when we come back. Severance examines the relationship between employers and employees and the concept of separating one's work self from their outside of work self. Our partner, ZipRecruiter, connects companies with people who are looking for a job they actually enjoy.
Not one they just want to forget about at the end of each day. So what if Lumen used ZipRecruiter to connect with potential employees? ZipRecruiter would have to find candidates with very unique skill sets, like grouping numbers into buckets. ZipRecruiter is the hiring site employers prefer the most.
Let ZipRecruiter connect you with the right talent for all your roles. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. No special skills or security badges needed. dot com slash severance to try zip recruiter for free again that's zip recruiter dot com slash s-e-v-e-r-a-n-c-e zip recruiter the smartest way to hire
Okay, so it turns out when you meet quota, one person from MDR gets awarded a waffle party. Cobell asks Mark who should get it, and Mark suggests Dylan. I just have to say Adam. the moment that starts that scene with you and uh patricia the laughing you're laughing about something that was said right before the scene starts and i remember we did it a few times but you
There was one where we said, let's just try one where you're like laugh, like for way too long and just keep the uncomfortable laughing going with each other. And we used every second of it in the cut. i love that it's just so uncomfortable and weird and sort of you know forced kind of camaraderie or whatever it is and you have your agenda you know what you're doing she's always kind of like sussing you out too and the two of you are just sort of you know in your own worlds but then
Yeah, it's great. Yeah, watching it back, I had forgotten just how much laughing there was. It just kept in there. I remember we literally used every single second of it. Um, and it's great. And then she says, yeah, she kind of, you, you kind of tell her you want, you know, Dylan to take the waffle party cause, cause that's part of the plan. Yeah. Yeah.
She's like, you can choose yourself if you want because it's such a – we're starting at the idea that the Waffle Party is a coveted event and why would you choose someone else to do this? And so Mark's covering and just trying to – convince her that, you know, Dylan deserves it because he's been working so hard. And also, that's also one of the phrases, a waffle party, you know, that Dan created.
Along with innie and outie and all those things that feels they're so specific to the show and I remember when the show finally went out Into the world after working on it for a couple years, you know hearing people talking about a waffle party As some sort of like, what is a waffle party? And we've been talking about a waffle party earlier in the show. But then I remember thinking like, okay, what is the waffle party?
And Dan and I had conversations about like, how far do you go with a waffle party? And what should that be? It's the ultimate perk, right? Yeah. Oh, it's kind of what everything is leading to. Yeah. Yeah. And he wants his waffle party, you know? I mean, everybody wants their waffle party. So when we got to that point of having to sort of visualize it and figure out what it was going to be, you know...
I knew that it had to involve an actual waffle, of course. There would be waffle. And then there would be some other element of other, you know, perks that were, you know, it's obviously there's like some, you know, these dancers come in. And that whole, I mean, just us figuring out how to choreograph that, how kind of seductive it would be, how risque, what was it insinuating.
That was a kind of an inflection point, I remember, because it's almost like one of the first questions we had to answer that we'd put out there. in terms of like you know you could just be thinking forever what is a waffle party but we had to somehow show it and i remember being a little bit concerned that like people would again would buy it would feel like that's okay you know
Is that too weird? Is it too, is it inappropriate? I don't know. The whole thing is just so, you know. Well, it does have a real sexual charge to it. It has a very risque. kind of overall tone to it. And it's – I always thought of it as you toil away for this whole time and then you kind of – you meet quotas so you get this reward and since – The entire place and the entire culture of Lumen is devoid of any affection or –
You know, anything that is even anywhere near sex or anything, but these are feelings that all of them probably have and don't understand. This is the ultimate reward that they can engage and just sort of let themselves. be a part of this? Is that in the realm of what you guys were thinking? I thought so. I thought that would be part of it, these human instincts that are...
that they're sort of deprived of. I mean, that's a big part of the Burt and Irving relationship, I think too, is the sort of, you know, there's two moments between you when, you know, the first time when, when you go to O and D and Burt, you know, sort of touches your hand and Irving sort of...
gets a little bit freaked out by it and leaves. And then the second time, when you're back at O&D and you move to touch his hand, and then in the moment in six that Aoife directed so well between the two of you, when you... you know in the in the plant room that energy i think if you know if you're starved for any kind of you know connection these things rituals take on a stronger resonance you know and obviously other people do
you know, too, you know, and that's what happens when, when you deny someone, you know, whatever state they're in. Like in a prison story too, same, same thing. Yeah. It's also interesting that there's a sexual charge to the dance, but the dance also has a dangerous feeling to it. So it's almost like be careful. Here you go, but you need to –
move with caution as well. Yeah. So these dancers, we tried to figure out how to visualize this thing and we worked with a great choreographer named Tara Rodriguez who... really came up with this very unique dance that sort of embodied all the weirdness that we were looking for. And the masks, do you want to talk about the masks that they're wearing, Ben?
I guess we could. Or should we not? They're so weird. I hadn't watched 8 for a while when I watched it for this, and for a second I had... forgotten that Dylan had the Keir Egan mask waiting for him on the bed, which just not having watched it for a couple of years, the. The just like we really went for it in terms of just the weirdness of this whole whatever this ritual was going to be that he ends up, you know, walking out on. But the masks were made by.
This artist that we work with on the show named Planko Patakanov, who is just incredibly talented. And I remember we were shooting, John, I'm sure you remember this location. We shot the Keir Egan. replica house in a real old Victorian house in Yonkers, New York, that is part of the Hudson River Museum.
And we shot there, we shot everything we were going to shoot there for the whole series. So, you know, the first, I guess, episode three, all those scenes we shot there in the same couple of days that we shot for episode eight. And we didn't get to, and I think you probably had gone home by that point, John, but it was the last night we were there. And I think it was like one or two o'clock in the morning that we finally got to shooting the waffle party dance.
And the dancers had been waiting all day and we were at the very end of our schedule and we had to get it done. I remember we only had a few takes to get it done and those dancers came in and they nailed it. They were so good. and they were so prepared and it was really that energy of like okay we got to get this and you know they're gonna they're gonna kick us out of here in half an hour and it was really really exciting and fun
Yeah, I was wrapped and I came, I stayed to watch the waffle party and it was incredible. They were. So on point, it was really impressive. Yeah. I think they were going to kick us out of there because the Gilded Age was shooting there the next day or something. Is that right? Yeah. I saw a rehearsal of it. Yeah. Wow.
Anyway, that was a really fun, weird scene. And watching it, having not watched it for a while, I was like, oh yeah, this is weird and a little bit out there. Should we talk about the egg party? Yes. I mean, this is basically the celebration for reaching 100% and Dylan is going to go get his waffle party, but they have a pre-waffle party egg.
mixer social type thing and yes yeah what always makes me laugh about this every time I watch it is that the party consists of the same four people who've just been working together it's just they change the lights they put on some you know some kind of tiki music uh and it's just the four of you having to hang out with each other
And yet it is kind of like a party because you like split off into groups. But now with eggs. And I am not an egg person. Do you like eggs, John? I do, but I don't like to, you know. hold them in my hand. But they came in. But I like to, like, make different, you know, omelets and things like that. And Kat Miller, our props master, she came in with a food stylist and created these crazy different egg concoctions.
It's like giant deviled egg within an egg. Yeah. Scotch eggs. Yeah. Oh my God. I like deviled eggs. Ah, well, that worked for you for the scene because I was staying as far away as possible during shooting. Yeah, you really don't like eggs. I have no problem, and Christine will make fun of me. I have no problem with eggs in something I eat. It's just the actual, I don't want to eat an egg on its own.
Okay. Like you can put it in a cake batter where I'm not, you know, I'm not vegan. Um, I, I just don't like the actual egg situation, but that party is like, everybody starts kind of going off into groups, which is basically. Helly and Dylan are talking, and then Irving kind of goes over to the Keir Egan portrait, and you have this kind of, how would you describe it? It's sort of a private moment where you...
It's like a reverse prayer. It's almost like what you normally go to pray or something. And then I guess I put the egg inside of the manual, the book. where all the laws are, the Bible of Lumen, and then crush it. I remember I was holding that egg for a long time. It's part of his sort of rebellion.
Yeah. And that's a turning point for Irving. And I mean, I guess we had the turning point earlier in seven where Irving says, let's burn this place to the ground. But this is sort of, you know, the next nail in the coffin where almost. directly to keir egan's face you sort of defy him and yeah yeah i mean keir egan i mean the the actor you cast is that's genius he's great
I mean, I'm in the show and I saw it and I was like, oh my God, no wonder I was a believer. You know what I mean? He's amazing. His name is Mark Geller. Yeah, Mark Geller. Bravo. He's so much a part of the show. committed to the show and he's just great um but yeah the waffle party pre waffle party uh
And social is also where Mark and Heli kind of connect with each other and have sort of a final check-in before the plan goes into action. Yeah, it's kind of the first time we let each other know that we have feelings for each other. And this is sort of where everybody sort of does the gut check and says, all right, let's go and sort of all systems go and are we all still up for this? Let's take a listen to that.
Look, it's likely we'll all wake up around. People could be driving or skiing, whatever we do up there. So be ready for anything as you go up the elevator, okay? The important thing is you find someone it seems you can trust and you tell them. everything and we don't know how long dylan will be able to give us so we can't get distracted digging into our lives right the mission is the priority I probably should have told you guys. But I kept this. And there was a part of it that...
Our job is to taste free air. Your so-called boss may on the clock that taunts you from the wall, but my friends the hour is yours It's so much fun watching Irving now on the other side of this big betrayal have such a shift in tone from those 107 scenes. in the closet when he was so just sort of appalled by these burgeoning plans and feelings that everyone was having about Lumen. So what happens next, Ben?
so basically everybody goes you go to the elevator you you say what could be your goodbye to the group which is let's find out what's for dinner which which is sort of i always thought that was kind of Irving's catchphrase, right? Yeah, what's for dinner? What's for dinner? And that scene in the first episode was really one of my favorite scenes when I read that that made me want to do the show too was that whole interchange about breaking down.
what that meant when Irving says, hey kids, what's for dinner? Because it means you're the worst dad in the world if you're asking your kids what's for dinner. Anyway, it was so funny. So you all kind of go up and then, you know, Dylan is left in the... control room and security room and has to figure out how to uh basically you know turn these two knobs that are gonna activate the overtime contingency and it's uh very very
tense and we build up to it and then the episode ends right when he hits the switch and we don't know what's going to happen. Yeah, it's the cliffhanger before the cliffhanger. At one point, Ben, I think I remember you mentioning like Is this cliffhanger going to be too suspenseful for us to then follow it with one? The next one needs to be. I remember when we edited the episode, I was like, oh, this is a cliffhanger. I hope the next cliffhanger.
tops that cliffhanger because this is like a real cliffhanger and then of course nobody ever really talked about the episode 8 cliffhanger because they felt the episode nine cliffhanger was the real cliffhanger. Yeah. But it's, but it's embedded. Yes, for sure. For sure. And it's also like, I feel like that sort of like basic idea when you do a television show too, is like you want people to want to watch the next episode. You want to keep the story engaged.
Hey, John, I just wanted to ask you, you know, Irving and Dylan have such a fun rapport and relationship. I just want to ask you about working with Zach real quick. I have to say Zach is a big surprise. I said this to Ben too. And I know we're not supposed to talk about season two or whatever, but to see Zack sort of blossom, you know, at first I thought, well, he's this really funny guy. And then he has all this other dimension.
to him as an actor and Dylan as a character. And one of my favorite things is, you know, when he explodes and he bites Milchick. I don't know why, but...
It makes me laugh so much because it's a rebellion, you know? But I really think Zach is like a special guy. It's hard not to kind of, you know, really, really... want to put your arms around him you know and uh and i think his character is really interesting you know where he's going and that that ben gave him this opportunity i mean i think there are directors who do that
They see people and they, and they put them there. They, you know, and the same thing, you know, with Brit. And I think Ben has a great eye for that. And I have to say, I was really, you know, impressed. He surprised me in a lot of different ways, pleasantly. And I think he's a terrific part of the show. First of all, I think as actors, we all have that thing where there's a director who...
you know, is willing to give you a shot in some way. But I wasn't giving Zach a shot because he's like incredibly, you know, accomplished actor, comedic actor. But he, you know, we've talked about it. He didn't really have material like this that he'd worked on before. But the fun thing for me was
knowing who Zach is and knowing who you are. Like, I just say, okay, Zach Cherry is going to be sitting next to John Turturro. What's going to happen here? Cause he's, you know, and I think over the course of the eight or nine months of shooting, a lot of great stuff happened there that. I never in a million years would have imagined. I love the relationship between you two. It's a pleasure, really.
And that brings us to the end of episode eight of the severance podcast with Ben and Adam. What's for dinner, John? Thanks, man. This was, yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank that was, that was, uh, so much fun talking to you about this stuff. And next. and we'll talk about the Knicks and we'll see where we are at that point. Okay.
The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions, and Great Scott Productions. If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Odyssey app, or
or your other podcast platform of choice. Our executive producers are Barry Finkel, Henry Malofsky, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Leah Reese Dennis. The show is produced by Zandra Ellen and Naomi Scott. This episode was mixed and mastered by Chris Basil. We have additional engineering from Javi Crucis and Davey Sumner. Show clips are courtesy of Fifth Season. Music by Theodore Shapiro.
Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael LaVey, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Schuff. And the team at Red Hour, John Lesher, Carolina Pesikov, Jean Pablo Antonetti, Martin Valderutin, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker, and Oliver Ager. And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith at Rise Management.
We also had additional production help from Gabrielle Lewis, Ben Goldberg, Stephen Key, Kristen Torres, Emmanuel Hapsis, Marie-Alexa Cavanaugh, and Melissa Slaughter. I'm Adam Scott. I'm Ben Stiller. And we will see you next time. Hey, Adam. Yeah? Is your experience at work a bit dysfunctional lately? I don't know. I think it's... It's... Okay, I'll take that as a yes. Or...
you could try Confluence by Atlassian. Oh my God. Well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose Confluence by Atlassian. Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before.
where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for, while discovering important contexts they didn't even know they needed. A space where AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize, and deliver work faster. In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year. So that would equal out, like if we're playing with like, let's just say 100%.
5.2 of those percentage points, that's the improvement. I mean, I'm not great at math, but that sounds very close. Well, I'm doing the math in my head right now as we speak, and I think that's great. So why not keep your team unsevered? Confluence, the connected workspace where teams can do it all. Set knowledge free with Confluence. Learn more at Atlassian.com slash Confluence. That's A-T-L-A-S-S-I-A-N dot com slash C-O-N-F-L-U-E-N-C-E.