Understanding Flock Cameras with Stephanie Lindsey

This is The Secure Family Podcast. Welcome friend. I'm Andy Murphy, the host and founder of The Secure Dad. This show is all about empowering parents to protect themselves and their family. I believe that security is the foundation of happiness, and I want your family to be safe and happy. The information I share on this podcast is for general information purposes only. My goal is to empower you to make safer decisions for yourself and your family because our safety. is our own responsibility.

Today I chat with an attorney and privacy advocate about her experience with Flock cameras. All of that and more coming up on The Secure Family Podcast.

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My guest on the show today is Stephanie Lindsay. You may recognize her from her social media posts about Flock cameras. Stephanie has been an attorney for 25 years. Her goal is to help those who don't know how to navigate the law. And she's a privacy advocate. It's important to note that nothing in our interview is to be considered legal advice. Here's my conversation with Stephanie Lindsay. So, Stephanie, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Introduce yourself to everybody.

Well, Andy, thank you for having me today. I love talking about Flock cameras, as you probably already know. But, um, my name is Stephanie Lindsey. I'm an attorney in the state of Georgia. I've been a practicing attorney for this year make 25 years. Very good. Congratulations. So what, what motivated you to become a lawyer? I get that question asked of me all the time and it's, it's, I hate giving the response because it's so cliche, but it's true.

And when I was little, uh, and my mother, she's passed on now, but she used to tell me that, um, when I was little, probably about three years old, um, a gentleman walked up to me and asked me what I want to do when I became an adult, what did I want to do in the future? And, um, she said that my response was, I want to be a judge. And he looked at me and she looked at me and was like, you don't even know what that is.

And so as I got older, I realized that, you know, in order to be a judge, traditionally, you had to be an attorney. And so I wanted to be an attorney. That's all I've ever wanted to be. And I was blessed with an opportunity to become one. And I've been one ever since. That is awesome that you just pick that and that is what you wanted to do. And here you are doing it. You know, I don't, I don't understand it.

And if you believe in a higher being, then that's the only way that you can explain that because I have never wanted to do it. Anything else but this, um, I've never, you know, said, Oh, I want to do this. At one point, he didn't know. No, I've always wanted to be an attorney always, always. And I w it was gone. It was, that was my destiny. That's my calling. And that's what I'm today. And I'm just so thankful for that, for the opportunity to help you.

And to help people in a different way, because you can help people in all different aspects, but I, I'm using my legal knowledge and expertise to help individuals, um, do a lot of different things. You know, so I have a various area of, um, practice that I have. So I do criminal, some criminal defense. Do a lot of personal injury a lot of wrongful death.

So in all those aspects is about helping people very good That's what I like to have And guests on my show or people who are rich they get up every day To make the world a better place to help as many people as they can. So I very much appreciate you being here Thank you. Thank you.

All right, so you and I uh have a shared common interest and that is a the Flock camera that has recently become kind of prevalent over the last few years, but a Flock camera is just a Automatic license plate reader. So kind of explain to us what that is and why it's used by police. Well, to start out, I think that what fascinated me before even getting into the Flock cameras was the tag readers that were used by repo drivers.

I don't know if you ever heard of that, but repo drivers actually were the first ones to start using those tag readers. And, um, the way that they worked the system was that they would have the camera on their vehicles and literally they would hire people to just drive around randomly, just capturing images. And so that's how they build up the database in order for them to kind of utilize this technology on reading tags and finding tags.

So, you know, I heard a call one day years ago from a client who indicated to me that she had gotten arrested for getting in a fight.

At a Kroger and she got in a fight with the repo gentlemen because she was in the store and um, Her husband was outside and the vehicle was tagged I guess picked up by the repo guy because she had done a title pawn on the vehicle And so the title pawn company had we pulled the vehicle and so as a result of that They were stopped and she didn't know that you could do that. And so that's how I learned about these tag readers that can instantly pick up these tags.

And as long as the information is in the database, the criteria is put in the database about the particular tag. The, the um, the reader will actually like pick it up. So like for instance, if I know that I'm looking for a vehicle that has this tag number, this car, make, model and color, I can put that in the database. And so that computer will just ride around or the camera will just ride around and as soon as it hits, It'll alert the repo guy that the vehicle is right here.

And so that fascinated me. And so as we move forward in life Years past, and I'm assuming that that technology has been, that is evolved into what we have now, which are the clock cameras, which are everywhere. So now this is a stationary camera that is placed randomly in a community, um, and they're placed by private entities and they're placed by government entities and they just basically pick up tags. That's what they used to do.

Now they're, they're, they're more enhanced and they're picking up more than tags now, but it's, it's amazing to me how law enforcement has now, um, developed. A, um, procedure, a standard operating procedure of implementing those Flock cameras in their investigations and how they transact, um, business as relates to crime solving and, um, just getting gathering information on people that may be under investigation. So it's, it's, um, it's big brother at his finest. Big brother at its finest.

Yeah, it sounds like it. So what sort of, you know, you talked about obviously they're getting the license plate. What other information are these cameras pulling? So these cameras are now able to pull images. Of the individuals that are in the car, sometimes it may not be able to capture a full, um, um, image of the person's features, but it may be able to tell that there's more than one person in the car. Sometimes it does capture your features. You have to look at it like this.

How many people that you know, have gone through a yellow light, that's maybe just now turning red, and they get a ticket weeks later, and the ticket, when they dispute it, the ticket shows their face. You know, that happened to me. I just viewed it a ticket and they sent me immediately me driving through the red light with a smile on my face. Like you got to think about that kind of technology is now being used in these Flock cameras.

So there's that information that the Flock cameras are picking up. They're also picking up information about the vehicle itself. Um, it could have a sticker in the, in the windshield or sticker in the back of the vehicle, um, dense, any kind of identifying I, um, markers on the vehicle are going to be able to be placed in the Flock camera system to pick up, uh, these vehicles. So it's just not tagging more. Right. So, you know, playing devil's advocate here.

Um, so like, let's say you have a political party sticker on the back of your car, they could sort all of the information, you know, based on the same political party sticker on it and people who have similar of it and kind of almost build a database of who supports what party in a community. Uh, look, I don't know that specifically, but I do know this.

They're able to identify a particular sticker on the vehicle, the location of a sticker on the vehicle, and you know, like you said, Plains Devil's Advocate, like, what are the limitations to, to that? What are the limitations on you saying, I'm looking for a red and black sticker, um, that has this image on it, and I want to see the tags associated with that sticker? While I don't have personal, um, personal experience. Through my business and identifying that that's what that's used for.

I can only assume that if you're able to identify a particular sticker and a location of the sticker, that you could take that information and go wild with it. I mean, there's nothing, there's nothing limiting what the flop camera system, um, capabilities are at this point, because like I said, initially we thought that it was just reading a tab. We now know that that's not the case.

It's more than just reading a tag, you know, one of the cases that I had where we realized the, um, the ability of the fog camera was when it comes down to these, um, vehicles that are being stolen, like, you know, your popular vehicles that are being so the Hellcat, like I had a client that told me that he just kept being stopped by police officers in different jurisdictions, and he didn't understand and then and then caught his attention was he was stopped In one

jurisdiction and they made a comment about something that he said in another jurisdiction and that kind of, you know, made him think and when he told me that I said, well, how would they know that? And when we found out was that his vehicle was in a database, not the vehicle itself, but the fact that he had a Hellcat that had an out of state license plate, there was a criteria run in one jurisdiction, picking up all those vehicles that met that description.

And when he was stopped, they got his vehicle identification number off of his windshield. And you, you're, you're saying you said, well, how do you do that? Well, when the officer's talking to you, they're able to get all that information. And so they put that information in the database. So that's what caused him to keep popping up along with his license plate.

And so the notation was, we need to figure out how we can get the vehicle identification number from somewhere else in the vehicle, except for instead of just on the, um, on the, um, windshield, you know, you know, in the dashboard area. Right, right. Yeah. Right there in the front. That's what caused me to realize. Wait a minute. Now, how are you, how are they getting this information? And why is it, how are they communicating with one another?

The way they're communicating with one another when you're not a suspect of anything and that's when we delve more into the Flock cameras and we started the Flock camera series because people needed to know like you can be an innocent person. It just has happened to have one of these vehicles and you're going to be targeted because you have one of these vehicles. So, right.

And then we went from there to, to, you know, them tracking individuals that maybe vanished from a county and putting their license plate in to see where they're, where they've traveled. Why are you doing that? You want to see if they're in the county, but Now, you don't even have to have a witness that says that they're in the county, that a Flock camera can pick up your tag and show that you're where you're not supposed to be. Right.

So, you know, there are people who say, okay, the Flock camera provides an important service because they could potentially find a stolen vehicle or somebody who has been kidnapped and this vehicle has been reported. And I think that's all well and good. That's, that's good policing. But then on the other side, uh, we have Well, you know, normal citizens are being surveilled at the same way that criminals are.

Where does, where does the Fourth Amendment fit into this and this new system that we find ourselves in? Well, I can tell you what I've researched. Um, I understand that concern. Um, the concern is how far are they allowed to take it without having some type of oversight? And as it stands right now, there, there has not been any successful challenge to the, um, Fourth Amendment, you know, um, rights that we have as relates to plot cameras.

And the reason that is because you don't have a right to privacy to your tag. And remember, right, the purpose of the plot camera is to pick up the tag. Um, you don't have a right to privacy on a sticker that's on your vehicle. You don't have a right to privacy on anything that is open and obvious, On the vehicle. You don't have a right to privacy. You don't have a right to privacy to the color of the vehicle that you're driving.

You have a right to privacy to make a model of vehicle because there's no right to privacy. There is no Fourth Amendment violation. Now, are there violations? We would have to assume yes, if you are tracking individuals, um, without any justification for why you're tracking the individuals. Sure. Does that happen? I would have to assume that it does. But the bottom line is how do we prove that?

You don't prove that unless you are in a case that has Resulted from that type of surveillance and you're able to track back that investigation to the illegal use of Flock cameras and then you're able to proceed forward with a motion to suppress that information because it was done. You know, illegally or unlawfully. So, so to kind of bring this home for folks, when you are in public, you have no right to privacy and the courts have upheld that for a very long time.

Um, and, and while that may make us feel uncomfortable that any, I was actually talking to my 12 year old son this morning and I said that I was talking to you on my podcast today and I was like, you know, talking about flat cameras and he's like, well, don't people need permission to take your picture? And I was like, well, and that's what we teach kids. That's what we teach kids now. And so it was kind of hard to explain to him, like, no way.

Cause if you're in public, you really don't have a right to privacy, which was kind of confusing to him. And when I said it all out loud, it kind of sounded confusing to me too. We did. Let's think, let's, you know, compare that to facial recognition software. Like when you're out and about, you know, you're, you're. You don't even know how many times you engage, um, that type of software in your day to day routine.

And so, is there a constitutional violation for there to be face recognition software that picks up your image and, you know, Runs any kind of, you know, background check or whatever the case may be as relates to the image that they found. Typically, my understanding is if they catch your image, they're only able to compare that image to an image that they have stored in the system, like a bolo or something to that effect. I mean, are there opportunities to.

Go beyond that, I would assume so, but we, we, we're not the way that we used to be back in, you know, the time where computers and technology, you know, wasn't taking over everything. You know, we're not going, we're not talking about using a Polaroid camera to take an image anymore. That's not right. And waiting for it to come out and then we're not doing that. So as technology evolves, um, as you know, AI evolves.

I would assume that there would be challenges to Fourth Amendment constitutional rights. However, with the evolution of technology, the way that it is, it makes it, it makes it very difficult. And you know, there are always exceptions that are in favor of the government when it comes down to Fourth Amendment issues. So one of the exceptions is like, like we already know if it's open and obvious. Is in plain view if it's in plain view then, you know, you there's no there's no issue there, right?

And and also to your point that you're making a moment ago The license plate that you have on your car belongs to the government technically it does not belong to you You pay a fee for it and they require you to put it on your car So it's it's government property that is on your personal property. Do I have that right? I'm not sure of that, but I can tell you this much. It really doesn't matter who owns it. The bottom line is, is open and obvious is in plain view.

Okay. That's, that's, that's the main thing is in plain view. You, you, by law, you have to have your tag in plain view by law. You cannot have your tag. Uh, in any way covered, you can't alter the tag, you know, to, to speak to what you just asked.

I mean, that could be an argument that it is government property because you get, if it's yours, you should be able to do it, excuse me, you should be able to do what you want to do with it, you know, but if you are, if you alter that tag in any way, that's a crime. Gotcha. If you, if you hide the tag in any way, that's a crime. So I need to go wash all the white out off the back of my license plate right now. That's what you're telling me. Let me tell you something.

Do you know that that's that criminals like literally have a level of genius that some of us can't even understand. They now have an ability to put a, uh, film or to put pieces on the back of their tags so you can't pick them up on Flock cameras.

There's a way to, there's a way to mask that, and so you would think that that would help you, but again, when you have characteristics on your vehicle that stand out, then that also, you know, it doesn't help that you took the tag off, or that you altered the tag, or did something to the tag, because the bottom line is, they're still going to be able to find your vehicle, and, and, and I've had that instance happen where an individual thought that by taking

the tag off of their vehicle, they would not be, they would not be found. They Okay. And that did not work. Interesting. It didn't work at all. Interesting. Yeah. You know, I'm always fascinated at the ingenuity that some criminals exhibit to try to get around something or to steal or whatever. And I think, man, that is such, you know, a great sign of intelligence. I just wish you could do something legal with it. I'm sure, I'm sure you hear that all the time. Yes. Yes. Definitely.

Okay. So we're talking about data collection. In essence here, like, they're collecting all this data on our cars. Like, when we go to a website, we can sometimes opt out of this data. Can we, as individual citizens, opt out of a license plate reader company? Is that something that we can do? I'm not sure you can do that because again, the license plate is out in plain view.

And so you, with a, with a license plate reader, what they're doing is, my name is Stephanie, I transact business with you. And I just give you an example for the title pawn. I am giving you my title to pawn. When I give you my title to pawn, you have my make. My model, my year, my color, my tag number. Those are the five things that you have and you have my name. And so because you have that information and, and, and I'm giving it to you, that information is going to be placed in a database.

So that in the future, if you decide that you're not going to pay, I'm able to find that vehicle. So think about it from this standpoint. If you are seeking a service from someone that you need, you, you basically are signing away so many rights when you do that, that is impossible for you to later on say, I don't want every, every, every company that's out there that has a database. of collecting tags. I don't, I don't want my information in it.

That's not going to happen because you signed over certain rights when you engage the business with the person that you You know, are trying to not pay. Do you follow me? Yes. So it's hard. It's hard to use that principle of, you know what, this is a privacy issue and I want to opt out and I have a right to opt out because the person is not using the information for, um, financial gain. They're using the information for the purpose of. Making sure that their collateral is protected. Right.

And their rights are protected as it relates to that. Right. And so, and you, you make a great point here. Because I have done research on Flock cameras. They, Flock in particular, and there's different brands that make these cameras. Motorola is another one. Um, but specifically with Flock, they are not selling your data. They're not selling any of that sort of stuff. It really just goes strictly to like police, uh, databases and that sort of thing. So that is at least.

One thing, you know, in their favor that they're not selling this data without our consent. They're not doing that.

And the neighborhoods now, they're now, it started out focused on subdivisions that just wanted to have another measure of surveillance to deter crime in their community. And it, it, it just evolved so much into now the government can lease Flock campers.

And that, that's another layer of issues that you have when you see a block camera and, um, and, and ironically, I started the series and probably a week after I started the series, the series, I got a call from an individual from local law enforcement, let me know, um, that because of my, they, they, they believed, and they were joking when they said it, but it was true because of me talking about the block camera so much, someone had come in the community and had destroyed a block camera.

Oh, all right. And, and I was like, well, that's not smart because they can capture you destroying the Flock camera because they're going to capture your image. Because even though you're not a vehicle, you walked up to the camera. And so as a result of that, you now on image for the Flock camera.

One of the things that I, um, a positive thing for Flock camera is this. I, I was talking to one of my friends and they had indicated to me that someone had dumped, I know everybody deals with this, people that do illegal dumping in your community, right? Mm-hmm . And they had dumped on one of the main roads in our community. They had dumped a sofa. And chair. I was like, this is the craziest thing ever.

And as we were talking, they made a comment about the Flock camera being close to where they dumped it. And I said, well, maybe Flock cameras can be used for that as well. Because if you are on a Flock camera and you're driving a truck because you know that the sofa and the chair is not going to fit in the car. You're driving a truck. You may be able to identify who the person was that was transporting it and, um, dumped it.

And so, you said earlier, there's so many positive things that the Flock Camera can be used for, and it is. You know, we had a murder in our community that was solved because of a Flock Camera. Okay. So, the things, like, kidnappings. Um, there's a show that used to be on Hear No Evil, See No Evil. Mm hmm. It used to be on Identity. And what they would do is they would just If somebody was missing or something happened to someone, they would track all the cameras that that person had.

Um, came in contact with and just the track, keep tracking their movements through the cameras. Same thing with block with the vehicles. You know, we have crimes that are solved because you may have a vehicle that's picked up near a crime scene and you track that vehicle everywhere that that vehicle is gone and it sets a pattern that that may be the suspect that you are looking for for a crime that occurred. So it's a lot of positive things that block camera can be used for.

You just have to set Parameters so there's not misuse. Right, right. And we'll, we'll talk about, I want to ask your opinion on those parameters here in just a few minutes.

Um, but I think about three weeks ago, uh, Motorola, uh, faced privacy issues due to the fact that they had data leaks, uh, on their websites. And what was happening was car details and images were not properly secured.

And so, and I use the phrase hacker like loosely, it was somebody who just realized, oh, wait a minute, if I plug this information in, I can get all of the data off of this Motorola license plate reader camera, and then all of a sudden I'll Somebody who is unauthorized has access to this information. So with the data that's like being collected with these cameras, how strictly does this stuff need to be safeguarded against from it falling into the wrong hands?

Well, I would say that with with any collection of data, um, if you're going to be the catalyst for that type of industry, then you need to know that there are people that are going to be ready to challenge your ability to use those items, especially if you are a person that likes privacy.

And so the first challenge would be whether or not the actual company has employed measures To secure that data, because while that information may not have a financial interest to the company that's collecting it, if it is breached, then it could be a financial repercussion that the individual can suffer as a result of you not properly securing my data. So, I think that that starts the dialogue of what are the proper parameters to regulate that particular market.

And that's a conversation that needs to be had because, you know, excluding what we're going, what's going on right now with, with data collection and individuals that should not have, um, access to certain data. The bottom line is you have individuals that have, um, malfeasance on their heart. They, they, they don't have good intentions for your information.

And so they're going to figure out a way that they can capitalize on getting this information, especially when you don't put in place, um, I guess, mechanisms or measures to kind of deter from breaches happening. Like think about, think about all the losses that have happened in the past.

Where these companies, they were, they were proud of the fact that they were able to collect all this data on you and they would sell your information to other companies that needed, you know, information about mothers that, you know, are single mothers or, or individuals that are in a particular demographics in a particular region. They're selling all this information. And so now, you know, you got, Okay.

All this data about vehicles, all this data about individuals and, um, their, their loan frequencies, you know, because most of these, most of these things started out with title pawn companies using this data. And so you got all this information on people and you're not putting in any kind of measure to make sure that that information is safe. I mean, I know that I know that people feel like we're in a litigious world, but that's how you fight, you know, your privacy issues right there.

Sometimes the privacy issue is not fought on privacy grounds. Sometimes your privacy issues are fought on financial grounds because you messed up, leaked my information, and as a result, somebody has stolen my identity, pretended that they own this vehicle, um, that I own, and, you know, here we are, I have now these individuals that have, um, loans in my name.

Just to give you an example, when you go through your credit, um, clearances, like when you apply for something and they ask you all these questions about, um, they may ask you a question like, what vehicle did you own, uh, in, in 2000? Um, who was your loan? Um, who's your lender on this particular vehicle? That's information that overlaps into these databases. Mm hmm.

Okay. And so if they can get information on Stephanie, and they may have, this is her name, this is where she used to live 10 years ago, this is where she used to live, but they don't have my information on a vehicle, but they're able to get my information on a vehicle as a result of your sloppiness and your inability to secure my data, then they have a whole picture of who I am, and if that question is being asked, They're able to provide an accurate response to that question. Right. Right.

Sometimes your best arguments are not necessarily arguments regarding privacy. Sometimes you can argue those issues and be able to get, you know, what you're trying to get accomplished. That you would not have gotten accomplished if you challenged things by the Fourth Amendment. Right.

Okay. So, Flock cameras and Motorola cameras and all these, you know, ALPR cameras, they are holding and retaining the data. But, they are also purging them. But, it seems to be, in the research that I've done, it's kind of up to the company, where and when they want to do it. And then it's kind of up to local law enforcement to say, Oh, wait, we need to hold on to this one for a little while, and they can kind of flag it to keep it for longer.

Um, you know, if you could write a law about, you know, ALPR cameras in the state of Georgia, what sort of, like, data retention would you put into it? What sort of, I don't know, even public notice? Like, what, what would Stephanie's law be? To help one police and also to privacy advocates when it comes to these cameras. Well, for one thing, I think that there needs to be education, um, to the individuals that, you know, definitely are going to interact with this particular camera.

I think that there should be a notice placed in the paper. Um, you know how they have legal notices when you know that there's a camera that's going to be coming to a particular community. You need to put that notice in a newspaper of that community to let people know that there's going to be a Flock camera that's installed in the community and where it's going to be installed. Now, I know that there'll be people that'll say, well, you know what, why would we want to do that?

Because, you know, this is, this is, this is primarily for criminals. This is primarily for criminals. You know, depending on who you are, depending on how much stink you make, everybody is one step away from being identified by law enforcement as, I mean, that's the reality of it. And so I think that it's important for us to have full transparency, especially when the government, they're the ones that are leasing it because you don't have to be a government entity to lease a block camp.

You could be a neighborhood, but they'll be able to use it. And so I think that that's a start. With, um, with writing legislation that addresses privacy issues with, with, um, flat camera as relates to anything else. It's such a complex area and people don't realize how complex it is. When you talk about the information that can be gathered in this, um, if I say, you know what, let's go ahead and purge the information after a year, but then there's something that happened.

You know, two years ago, and this would have been, you know, great for us to be able to utilize the technology to find out what the information was during that time period and how we can move forward with our investigation, then that information is lost. It's hard to tell a parent of a child that has been abducted or a child that has, um, you know, unfortunately has met, you know, unfortunate circumstances. Um, I purge, we purge the information so we can't get that information for you.

You know, you keep everything else forever, but you couldn't keep this information for four years. So just in case it was needed, you know, later on, we would have it. So it's so complex. I mean, I've never really even given it a lot of thought because the concern right now is just educating the people on what they are. I mean, some people don't even know what they were. They, they, I mentioned it. I said, I'm gonna post some pictures of what they are.

And I posted the pictures and I had everybody that's in my neighborhood. There's several of them. They had no clue. If you, my dad used to raise us where, when we, he only did this to the girls, he didn't do these to the boys. We had to learn, um, um, as we drove to pay attention to different things. And my dad was in law enforcement. So he would always have us drive and then ask us questions about what we saw or what the street name was.

As you know, he would, he, you would be a street name 2020 paces back. And he'll ask you, well, what was that street name? You know, a mile back? And you're like, what? And, but you, you could not drive or get your license until you master this, the girls. Okay. Uhhuh. . So what that did was that, that allowed me to learn how to pay attention to my surrounding when I Dr. When I drive. And so when I started seeing these things, I was like, what in the world are those things? You know?

I mean like they, because they don't look like cameras. Mm-hmm . And I thought that they were solar panels. Right. Right. But there were mini solar panels to help, uh, I guess, um, you know, provide energy to certain things that were underground. That's what I thought there were initially. Sure. And then later on I realized it was, there were, there were cameras. Right. Yeah, they look like, um, they look like little bird houses on a pole with a little slanted, uh, solar panel on it.

And if you go to pretty much any Lowe's Home Improvement store, you will see them in their parking lot because they are tracking all of the cars that are coming in and out of their lot. Even if you don't have business in Lowe's, you're just driving through, the flat cameras there are gonna pick up your license plate. So that's, uh, that's, that's crazy. And you, you didn't ask for that!

You just want to go in there and get your items from Lowe's, you want to get some plants, you want to get some fertilizer, you want to get, you know, some equipment. You didn't ask for all your information about your vehicle to be blasted all over the United States because everybody is going to have it. Right. Yeah, and that's the hard thing. Okay, so we've talked about Flock cameras, you know, I felt like you've done a great job in educating us in what's good about them and what's bad.

For anybody who's just learning about this, what tips do you have for them just to be able to navigate this subject and still try to maintain some level of privacy? You know, what I've been telling people is Don't do crime because that that's the thing you there's nothing that you can do to get around a Flock camera There's you can't there.

There's no way that you can drive down the street see a plot camera and say I'm not I refuse to You know adhere to this Invasive intrusion on my rights and I'm gonna stop and I'm not gonna go this way I'm gonna turn around and go another way because there's gonna be one wherever you go. There's a plot camera. You cannot miss it You know, that's all I can say.

It's just that if you are a homeowners association and you're interested in getting a Flock camera, I would suggest that you really educate your homeowners on what that entails, because while it would all it would be great for the neighborhood to monitor activity going in and out of the neighborhood. At the same time, you need to advise them that this is a permissible invasion of your privacy.

Right, yeah, because a lot of people are like, Oh, that sounds great, because we'll catch criminals coming in and out. But it's also gonna tag you going in and out. Maybe you're going in and out at odd hours. Maybe some car is driving to your house that you don't want to have to explain to everybody else. Because it's your own private business. But that sort of stuff is getting logged by these cameras that are owned by HOAs. Well, and you know what?

The crazy thing is, um, when we first started talking about this, I said, you know, we don't realize that when we, when we first learn about a product or a type of technology, we learn it the way it is and the way it's intended. Over time, the purpose and the use. Changes. And so while now is being used as an investigative tool for criminal activity, there may be a time will it be, it will be used as an investigative tool for civil activity.

For instance, if you are married and you're getting a divorce and in the divorce action, you're trying to prove certain things in the divorce action, there may be a time where you will be able to utilize a flat camera by. Providing a tag number, make a model of your spouse's vehicle, and asking the company to provide the activities of where that vehicle has gone over a certain period of time. Mm hmm. Yeah. And that's not what people think about at first. They don't think about that at first.

They're thinking, oh yeah, you know, we want the criminals to be caught. We want this. We want that. Yeah. But you, but then when you're the subject of it, then you, then, then you worry about your rights. That's right. That's what always amazes me. You don't, you don't think about your rights. You thinking about, look, we're going to get these criminals.

You're not, your, your rights are not in the fourth, you know, front of your thoughts because you're saying, I said, well, I'm not doing anything wrong. Cause that's the first thing people say on social media. I don't have anything to worry about. I'm not doing anything wrong. Well, you have everything to worry about because if you're the target of whatever it is, then, and you're not doing anything wrong, but you're just a target.

You don't know what extent that they will go through to make sure that they can establish what they're wanting to establish about you. So, it's something to think about. Right now, it's criminal investigation. Later on, it may be civil. It may be civil now, we just don't know it. True. We don't know. Yeah, I mean, this is just the very beginning of 2025. Who knows what things are going to look like in 10 months. We don't. We don't.

I mean, look, I'll be the first one to tell you, I learned about AI three years ago at a law convention. Right. And, you know, when they were talking about AI, they were saying that there is a particular, um, um, software that will allow you to enter and draft up a brief and draft up documents from the standpoint of an attorney. I was like, no way. And so in one of those areas, they were looking at a law change to not make it where you have to pass a bar to become an attorney.

Like you didn't have to take the bar exam to become an attorney because this technology was available to help facilitate some of the legal things that you needed to do. And I was like, yeah, right. Look at how many lawyers now are using chat GPT law. Yeah. Look at how many non lawyers are using it. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, we're, we're finding out new stuff every day. So what I've, what I've learned from, from you today, Stephanie, is that, um, don't commit crime.

I need to back into my parking place, uh, from now on so that, um, somebody doesn't get my tag that way. That doesn't help. I had a client that did that. Really? It did not help. He backed into these places so you couldn't get his tag. He took his tag off in some places and they still were able to track him because of a sticker. Oh my goodness.

Because of a sticker on his vehicle and the fact that he had an accident and the accident showed the damage that he had from the accident was on the vehicle and they put that into the criteria and they were able to track him. Good. And I wish I could go into more detail on how they actually. Went through step by step to track him, but they went step by step and tracked him. And when we had the case, we were able to obtain all this information.

And I sat there and I looked at this and I was like, you have got to be kidding me. It was, it was amazing because There was nothing that would identify him at all. Wow.

Wow. Well, Stephanie, I have learned a lot from you today from, you know, the folks who were listening here. They want to find out more about you and the series that you were doing on Flock Cameras on social media. Where can they find you online? Um, Attorney Stephanie. So it's at Attorney Stephanie on TikTok and at Attorney Stephanie on Instagram. And our YouTube page, um, at attorney Stephanie, do you, I think that is, um, it's set up where the Flock camera series is in one.

Location so you can pick up all the slot camera information and is the same way organized on TikTok and Instagram but is a great series for you to look at because We started in the early stages and as we went along we still had people that were contacting us asking us questions about black cameras Ironically, we had attorneys contacting us asking about black cameras Law enforcement was very engaged because I got I got calls from law enforcement.

I you know, I have a lot of People in law enforcement that I consider to be friends and close to, and they would tell me this is what's going on. And this is what happened. And you're not going to believe this. And that's how I'm learning so much about it from the other, the other aspect of it. Yeah, well, that's amazing. So Stephanie, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate you.

I appreciate that you were trying to educate us and you were trying to make your community a better place. God bless you. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you Andy for having me and giving me an opportunity to talk more about Flock cameras. They're everywhere. They are every where. Well, this wraps up this episode of The Secure Family Podcast. Thank you, friend, for listening. Thanks again to Stephanie for being on the show. For more from her, visit TheLindseyLawFirm.com.

Take back your privacy and personal data with help from DeleteMe. Get 20 percent off a privacy plan when using the code DAD at checkout. DeleteMe is the official data removal service of The Secure Dad. Keep your kids safe while gaming with my eBook, Level Up. It's available exclusively at TheSecureDad.com. There's a link for you in today's show notes. If you'd like to know more about The Secure Dad, join me on Instagram and TikTok. My username for both platforms is The Secure Dad

. And of course, my website is available to you 24 7 at TheSecureDad.com. I'm Andy Murphy reminding you to be aware of your surroundings, and you'll start to notice cameras in places that you never thought they'd be.