¶ Welcome to The Secure Family Podcast
This is The Secure Family Podcast. Welcome friend. I'm Andy Murphy, the host and also the founder of The Secure Dad. This show is all about empowering parents to protect themselves and their family. I believe that security is the foundation of happiness, and I want your family to be happy and safe. The information I share on this podcast is for general information purposes only.
My goal is to empower you to make safer decisions for yourself and your family, because our safety is our own responsibility. Today, I get to sit down with a retired police officer who has had a storied career putting away child predators. He'll share his experience so we know how to protect our kids. All of that and more coming up on The Secure Family
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¶ Level Up Your Online Gaming Safety
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In this new ebook, I'll give you a parent friendly breakdown of the online gaming world, you'll get a clearer understanding of why kids love gaming and how it fits into their social lives, You'll learn about the biggest threats, like cyberbullying, inappropriate content, and online grooming, and of course, I will show you how to deal with them.
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¶ Meet Michael Arterburn of Killer Bee Tactical
Chances are you've come across today's guest on social media. Michael Arterburn is the man behind Killer Bee Tactical. He's built a strong following by sharing real world knowledge with a no nonsense approach. He spent 23 years as a police officer, serving in critical roles as a domestic violence detective, an internet crimes against children detective, and even a bomb technician. Now retired, he's traded in his badge for beekeeping, though his commitment to protecting others hasn't stopped.
During the pandemic, he launched Killer Bee Tactical, a platform dedicated to helping people become more prepared, more capable, and more aware. But most importantly, he's a dad. Here's my conversation with Michael Arterburn.
¶ Michael's Journey from Police Officer to Beekeeper
So Michael, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to talk with me today. Introduce yourself to everybody.
Um, Michael Arterburn. I was police officer for 23 years. I worked in internet crimes against children and domestic violence for a pretty large portion of my career. I started the Killer Bee Tactical. Um, during the pandemic and it's just kind of taken off from there.
Very cool. And you just to kind of explain the killer bee thing, you have been a beekeeper before, right? Is that it?
I still am. Yeah. Um, I have 13 hives and it's what I was supposed to do when I retired. Um, but it's kind of now my, my hobby. And then this is kind of what I do now.
Very cool. So, uh, you, you went from police work to beekeeping. You just like stress in your life. Is that it?
I guess so.
So what, uh, what led you down the path to, uh, becoming, um, you know, somebody involved with law enforcement?
I wish I had a really cool story that was like, you know, I've always wanted to be a police officer and I just like helping people. And while those are true, um, I was pre med in college and uh, decided being a doctor is not what I wanted to do and it's all I thought about. And then I was like, now what do I do? Um, and I was almost getting ready to graduate. So, um, a buddy of mine, I was leaning toward something like the FBI or the ATF going federal.
Um, And, uh, a buddy of mine was going to, uh, apply to a local police department, uh, medium sized police department. And he was like, you want to ride along? And I'm like, man, I don't want to be a police officer. And, um, he's like, we'll just ride with him and keep him company. So I jumped in the car with him. We go downtown and you know how governments are, there's like a, they have certain days where they're handing out, uh, applications and all that.
Um, and it's, you fill out the form and, and, and go from there. So I'm standing in line next to him. And the lady hands me a form and I'm like, I've got it and she's like, just take it. I'm like, yes, ma'am. So I take it and I fill it out in a, with a golf pencil, not thinking there's no way I'm going to get, I'm not even going to try. So make a long story longer, a year later, I get hired and he doesn't. Oh, wow.
Yeah, he gets hired a year, a year after me, but, um, it just shows there's no rhyme or reason on how they, how they hire people.
Okay. Well, that's cool that you, uh, you, you went to it. And so when you first started, um, What were you doing? What was your first responsibilities?
I worked patrol, um, and I worked in a urban environment. We worked a shooting a day. Um, so we were, we were busy. Um, and I loved it. If, if I could have just stayed at work and they fed me, I would have done it for free. Um, and that was probably the first three years of my career.
That's awesome that you just you found something that you clicked with.
¶ Understanding Online Predators
Now, you talked about you eventually kind of work your way in your career to working specifically for crimes that are targeting children. Kind of tell us a little bit about what that entails.
So, everybody says the same thing. That's the one job I wouldn't have. Um, and after a while, I guess I was probably, Maybe 10 years into my career, you get so jaded on like all the street violence. Kids are pretty much the ones that you care about. Um, so when I was, I was asked to come to Crimes Against Children and I gave it heavy consideration and then I was like, yeah, that's, that's where I want to go. Um, so my area, I worked, um, All, all physical sex crimes.
I worked all of it, but my focus was internet. Um, so at the time I went to like all the FBI training and all that and I hunted internet predators and I did that for about seven years.
Okay. And I know that that is a job that takes a lot out of you as, you know, a professional and as a human being. So, you know, I admire you for stepping up and taking that job that, you know, a lot of people just aren't qualified for.
It does. Um, my opinion, those detectives should go through, every six months, they should get some kind of psychological evaluation to make sure they're doing okay. Because you literally see nightmares. Um, just awfulness. Um, but the other side of that is, I never have to question on whether or not I did some good. That's never a question that comes up in my retirement. I know I did. I know I helped some people, um, and got some true bad guys off the street.
That's awesome. So, you know, you and I are talking here as dads, we have other parents who are listening to us. You know, with your focus, you know, being on the internet and everything, what were the common tactics that you were seeing being used by predators to target kids online?
Almost always the, um, well, when I would set up my character on, uh, so I would pose as a child online, right? And, um, it would have to be realistic because they know there are guys like me that are hunting guys like them. Um, so they'll probe and from real life. calls that I would go to when, you know, grandma calls at nine o'clock in the morning and her 13 year old granddaughters disappeared. And she hands me a computer and says, please find my granddaughter. That's it. That's all you get.
Um, so I would take the, the real life situations that, you know, the child has. They're, you know, um, they have a electronic device in their room at the time. It was a computer, but now it could be a cell phone. Um, they have all kinds of privacy privacy. They don't have any monitoring whatsoever. Grandma has no idea how to get on the phone. Um, just the whole scenario all comes together. Um, so that's who my character would be. And that's what I would see a lot. Um, yeah.
Of real world world situations. Um, a lot of times my character's mom wouldn't be home because she was a nurse and she worked, she worked, you know, odd hours. Um, let's see, what else? Um, basically any vulnerability. Um, you could mention to where, you know, mom doesn't understand me, that kind of thing. And those guys, they, they prey on that.
Yeah, so they're just looking for those vulnerabilities. They're looking for whatever clues that kids are giving them that would give them an insight to being somebody valuable to them. Is that
what it is? Yep, and they'll have a special relationship, uh, with my own kids. Um, I tell them we don't keep secrets. Um, you know, there's, there's, there's no secrets. There's surprises, but we don't do, we don't do secrets in our family.
Right. And that's a good point because like a surprise is a birthday present. A secret is something much darker than that, right? Yeah, absolutely. Very cool. So, are, and I know this is different because each individual predator is different, each situation is different, but what are predators looking for in their perfect target? What are the things that when they see it, they're like, okay, I know that I can exploit this. What is that that they're looking for? Um,
usually the age group between like 10 and 15 years old. Um, that's what I saw the most. And that's usually when kids have the most turmoil in their life on who they are. And you know, they're, they're trying to figure out life. Um, there's usually, usually a lot of conflict with their parent. Usually they don't have parents. Um, and, uh, that's the role that, uh, the predator is trying to fill. So he has an in.
Right. Okay. So, there's a lot of parents who are out there who are like, you know, my child is smart, they're well adjusted, they would never fall for a predator's tricks. You know, what do you say to parents like that?
Um, everybody says that. Uh, and Like I've had parents that have told me my, you know, my child would never be involved in bullying. And then they get a monitored phone to where, you know, the AI is looking at what your kid is saying and you'll get an alert saying, hey, there's bullying and you don't find that you find out that it's not your kid that's being bullied. It's your kid that's the bully, you know, and you're like, this is a side I didn't know about.
Um, And that is one of the things that I would, I would recommend to any parent is to get some kind of monitored phone for their team. Don't give them an iPhone. iPhones are meant for privacy. That's great for adults, not for kids. Kids need limited privacy when it comes to online stuff. Like I said, everybody says that, um, my son was at a young age and it was on a gaming console and gaming consoles are the wild west. There is no monitoring. Um, the government, from what I understand.
Is doing better in it because terrorists were using gaming consoles to communicate. Um, but they're not looking for predators. They're looking for terrorists. So, um, my son was at that age where he didn't understand the difference between online friends and real life friends. So some of his friends introduced him to these other people that were posing as children. And I ended up pinging one of them's address and it came back across the border.
Mm hmm.
Um, so, you know, you think it's never gonna be my kid and then you find out, well, it can be, you know, under the right circumstances.
Right. You make a great, you know, point about the whole console. These boxes are kind of the Wild West. I have to talk to my son regularly that, you know, Fortnite will call your list of contacts friends. You've never met these people, and chances are you never are, so you don't really know who they are. And so I try to help him understand an online contact is very different from a friend that you have in school.
Right. Oh, I always say that real life is more frightening than anything that I could drum up. So I bring up things like I posed as a believable 13 year old girl online for years. Um, and you know, if I could do it, you know, an old man, then anybody could do it. Right,
right. Yeah. And again, it kind of goes back to this parents thinking, Oh, it would never be my kid. It would never do that. But you know, the lines of not being able to be monitored on these gaming consoles or being able to monitor on like a cell phone and that sort of stuff really, I think, can help parents understand that while you have raised a good kid, they're still going to make mistakes and they're going to make mistakes in a digital world where nothing really disappears. Right?
Right. Um, and you know, and I always say that our job as parents, the kid's job is to make mistakes and learn from them, because it's better they make them when they're under 18 than when they're adults. Um, but my job as a parent is to make sure they don't make the fatal mistake. Right.
Right.
¶ The Dangers of Sextortion
Kind of, kind of talk us through, um, like sextortion is something that I think people are talking about more and more every day, and I think that's a great thing. What is that process? What does it look like?
So the way that works is, um, it's almost always boys because boys are stupid. You know, we were boys at one time. Um, and these conversations happen within 10 minutes. So it's fast. It's not like it lasts for weeks. Um, most of the scammers are out of the country. So after you get that IP address that goes to wherever that's not in the United States, the case is basically over, um, cause we don't have jurisdiction. So, um, what happens is, uh, uh, random.
Um, and that female profile will contact your son and cat him up and convince him within 10 minutes to send him send this person a nude. When they do that, the person says, Oh, guess what? I'm actually, uh, you know, a Nigerian scammer and I want you to give me 50 then mow it to me or go into your parents, uh, wallet and get a credit card and give that to me. Um, And it just they're going to demand something. Um, There have been boys.
I'm sure that you've you've read about that have committed suicide because of these demands. They're too embarrassed. Um, you know, to come to their parents and they think it's the end of the world. Absolutely have that conversation with your children. No matter what it is, we'll figure it out. Um, you know, it doesn't matter what it is. One of the great things as bad as AI is, um, as far as changing images and things like that.
One of the best things that has happened is that they're using Real life child faces and then they're making an AI body. So all your, all your son has to do is say. That's AI, that's not me. Because what they'll do is they'll say I'm going to send it to your whole contact list. And they may or may not do it. Usually they don't because they're businessmen. At the end of the day they're scumbags but they're, they're trying to make money.
So they don't have time to, to send your whole contact list, that nude image you sent of yourself. They're going to move on to the next, the next one. Um, never send them money because that never ends. Um, it'll be one after the next, after the next, um, just cut off all communications and tell them that you, you know, you notified the FBI and usually that's it.
Um, but yeah, um, one of the, one of the, I guess silver linings, uh, is that now every kid, if they do send that image out, they can say, you know, that image is not me.
¶ Encouraging Open Communication with Your Kids
You know, as a dad, I'm sure you've had these hard talks with your kids. Um, what can you do to encourage parents just to get this conversation rolling? What would you suggest that they do? How would they have this conversation? Maybe something that worked in your life or didn't work. And you're like, man, I shouldn't have done it this way. I would have done it this way. What is a way that parents can, can actually say these words to their kids?
Um, The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has really good icebreakers like on how to talk to your kids in there. They have videos on, you know, if you want to show them a video that are age appropriate. Um, and I think that's the main thing is that, um, I try to walk that line from seeing all these nightmares in real, real life to not scarring my child for life, but educating him and bringing him up to speed to like real, this really does happen. This is real world.
Um, So it was always a balancing act and I probably started that when he was seven, um, because it's a digital age, man, my kid could fly on that iPhone on apps that were called toddler teasers and like, you know, identify the circle and he would hit the circle and all that. So, um, that part was great, but also seeing the part where I know there's bad guys that have access to him and I need to limit that as much as possible.
Um. So I would say the key to that is being age appropriate and having those open lines of communication early. The one thing you don't want to do, and it is, um, it was, it was hard for me not to do, um, is something happens online. Your child comes to you and tells you about it. And your response is to take that thing away. Um, and You know, like you can't have your PlayStation for a week now. All you've taught them is that you're going to punish them if they come to you.
Um, so that's the one thing you don't want to do. And it, like I said, it's, it, it feels natural to do that and you want to protect your children. But um, if you do it once, they'll learn from that and they won't come to you again.
Right, so you just gotta foster that honesty and that open communication that they will come to you if something bad has happened. That's, that's a very good point to make. Um, yeah, that's awesome. So, what are, I, I know that kids when they're being, You know, talked to by some predators. They exhibit different behaviors. They, they, they're maybe not as happy, or they can't sleep, that sort of stuff.
¶ Recognizing Red Flags in Your Child's Behavior
What are some of the red flags in behaviors that parents need to look for to understand that something might be going wrong with my kid?
You know your kid, and you know when something's off. Um, and If they start acting weird and I don't that's different for every kid, I'd start paying attention to that. Um, especially if they start getting more and more secretive with their phone or their electronic devices. If you come into the room, First of all, they shouldn't have any electronics in the room to begin with.
Um, it should be computers and gaming stations should be in public areas and they should be in places where you can just walk by and look at the screen and see what they're doing. Um, if they're real young, I advise against microphones unless they're just playing with their friends and that's it. But if your kid sounds like he's seven, he shouldn't have a microphone. Um, If they mainly if they start being secretive, if you say, give me give me your phone and they refuse.
Um, that's a big red flag or if there's any kind of hesitation or whatever. Um, Now they have apps that look like other things that are actually texting apps. So it may look like a Cal, it may look like, look like a calculator when you're scrolling through it and it's totally innocent, and they need this for school. And it's not, it, it's a texting thing that you're not checking. Um, another thing that they will have access to because of school and at school is Google Docs.
Google Docs acts just like Snapchat. Um, you can invite as many people as you want, and type back and forth, and then erase it, and then it's like it never happened.
Wow, that is, you know, that's, that's something I had not heard, but yeah, that makes complete sense that you could just type in whatever, drop in an image, drop in a link, that sort of stuff, and it's all right there in Google Docs. Man. And the school allows it. Yeah, and that's what a lot of people think when they, when they have a school issue device for their kid that, oh, it's got to be 100 percent safe. And I have discovered that's not the case, at least in my district.
Right.
Yeah, so yeah, we, we have to look after the school devices as well. We have to treat them like we would, you know, anything else. Um, so let's say you have a child that has sent a text, sent a picture that they weren't supposed to, they haven't told you, somehow you find out what do parents need to do next? How do they turn this into a teachable moment? How do they address this so that they can resolve it in a positive way?
Um, I think that open line of communication, explaining the dangers, um, explaining that, you know, the internet is forever. If you, whatever you upload or whatever you say, it's there forever. Um, and you, you might not be thinking about college now or a future job, but you know, all those things are on the, on the plate and you never know how far back a college or a job is going to look to, you know, to Google your name to see what kind of online, online activity you've had.
Um, If they do do something that is, um, first of all, uh, images under 18 of genitalia on a child is illegal. It's like heroin. You just can't have it. Um, that includes your child. That includes you. And that includes the general public. Um, So if that does happen, you would want to contact the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, NCMEC. I work with them all the time. Um, they have a database of all the illegal photos that are out there that they know of.
And they attach an age to an image and they they give it what they call a hash number. And they put this and it's more unique than a fingerprint to that image. And that way, if your kid's image shows up on one of my bad guy's devices, I don't even have to see the image. The computer goes through and looks for that hash number and says, Oh, that's that image and it's illegal. So now I got my bad guy. Um, They also have a program called Take It Down.
Um, so if your kid does get posted somewhere, um, they have resources and things set in place where they can notify companies to say this image is illegal, it cannot be put up, and then the companies have to take it down.
Okay, those are two awesome resources to have.
¶ Positive Outcomes and Final Thoughts
Um, you know, as we wrap up here, we've talked a lot about, you know, what parents can do to be proactive. Is there a positive story that you can share about maybe work you did or your team did to really Help a kid who was in a crisis situation so that whatever it was, they were facing was made a little bit easier by what you guys did. Or maybe there's a big bad guy you took down. Of course.
I know you can't say names or anything like that, but is there a story like that you'd like to share with us to help us understand that there are good people like you out there fighting for kids?
Um, gosh, there's a bunch. I mean, over the years, I probably put away a hundred people. Um, the, what I was, I was saying a little bit earlier that. When you're working child crimes, the cases are tough and you will carry them with you, some of them for the rest of your life. Um, cause you can't unsee something. Um, and, and, uh, the upside was, like I said, you're actually helping an innocent child.
Um, and you're, you're trying to correct a horrific thing and maybe get them in contact with counseling or, you know, whatever they need early. Um, but also. Juries are sympathetic to catching child predators and all of my cases were, um, pretty easy in that it was on a screen and I'm recording the screen. So all I do talk to jury and say, do you see that? So did I, you know, and this is exactly what happened, you know, and so there's no question on what happened or anything like that.
Um, the conversation. For, um, of a sexual nature with a child, the conversation itself is illegal. Um, and even a lot of people don't know that even if it's like a grooming situation to where they say, Okay, when you're 18, I know you're, you're 14 now, but when you're 18, we'll get together and we'll do the deed. That's an illegal conversation too. Um, but, uh, when I worked with, uh, The federal government because I took my case is federal.
Um, there are heavy penalties for these types of crimes. Uh, and like I said, just that conversation can get you 10 years max, mandatory minimum 10 years. Um, but we would do them one more and we would make them meet. So these dudes would actually show up to my decoy and then we have a takedown team and all that. Um, Some of them brought weapons. Some of them brought restraints. I had people bring drugs, um, sex toys, you name it.
Um, so, yeah, one less bad guy on the street hunting, uh, hunting children. And, uh, um, the wild thing was, is that when you're doing interview and interrogation, I have to get that confession. I don't necessarily need it, but the jury wants to hear that guy say, I really am attracted to a 10 year old. Um, because normal people don't understand how that's possible and that could be reasonable doubt.
So,
um, man, I'd go in and I'd wear a Hawaiian shirt. I'd be as non threatening as possible because. These bad guys are not like bank robbers. They're intro, they're introverts. There's a reason they like children. Um, and if you go in there and try to bully him, they're going to shut down or they're going to ask for a lawyer. Um, so, uh, yeah, and it's. I think it's kind of almost tribal. I think there's something in us that knows a relationship, a sexual relationship with a child is wrong.
And I think it goes back to caveman days where the people in the village will kill you or they'll throw you out of the, you know, they'll throw you out of the village. Um, so meeting a guy, arresting him, getting him to my office in the interrogation room and getting him to admit to me the deepest, darkest secret he has. In like an hour. Um, it was always, it was always quite a challenge.
Yeah, yeah, it sounds like it, and it's, it's, you make a good point, because we always think that these predators are like these monsters that sit behind these keyboards, and in a way they are, but it's, these are introverted people that probably, maybe if you looked at them, you wouldn't think that they would be somebody who could do something like this.
And, um, It can be anybody. And I've said before in my videos, nobody gets a pass. I don't care if you're clergy. I don't care if you're a police officer, a lawyer, a doctor. Until I'm done with my investigation, nobody gets a pass. Because if you look hard enough, you'll find that it can be anybody. Um, now usually they'll intentionally position themselves around children. So they'll have jobs or, or like be, I don't know, scout leader or something. And they'll have a job around kids.
Um, because they're putting themselves in that environment. But almost always they never had a record. So I'm getting 10 years of prison time to somebody that's never been caught committing a crime.
Right. And so like a lot of times, you know, like I coach youth basketball. So I always have to go through and do a background check. And I know from having conversations with folks like you. These people don't have records, so there's a lot of times, like, the basic background check won't catch these folks, right?
No, they, they, they've never, uh, been caught committing a crime. It's not that they've never committed a crime. Um, and with, uh, with sex predators, they evolve. Um, so, like, what they were doing five years ago is probably Um, not as bad as what they're doing today and they've evolved and gotten worse. So they may have only been talking to kids five years ago, but now they're like. Trying to open some kind of relationship because they're evolving.
Um, kind of like how peeping Toms are, are, are dangerous because they're going to evolve as well.
Right. You start off at one place and you end up somewhere else. And given how technology is changing, how relationship for social media, AI. I feel like this problem is going to get worse before it gets better. How do you feel?
Um, I think with, um, the AI and the tech becoming better and better. Um, I mean, you can use it. It's not good or evil by itself. It's how you use it. Um, like with a monitored phone. I don't know if I can mention Bark or not, but they're, they're doing, um. I don't think anybody else is doing what they're doing, um, and having it for my kid when he was, you know, 13 and it was invaluable. Um, eye opening.
I tell people all the time, just be ready when you get that phone, you give it to your teenager, just be ready because there's a whole side that you don't know about. Um, and, um, you know, it's just like I said, it's just, it's just growing up, kids making mistakes and hopefully they don't make the, you know, the, the super serious ones.
Right, you know, you and I, we are older than the internet. This is not something that we grew up in a household that had these sorts of rules. This is stuff that we're learning as first generation digital parents. So we're making mistakes too.
Oh yeah.
Yeah. Very cool, man. Well, Michael, thank you so much for talking with me today. Where can people find out more about you and your mission?
Um, my webpage is killerbetackle. org, uh, and you can go there and it has all my, I'm on all social media, name it, and I'm on it. Um, I'm, I'm bigger on some than on the others, but if you follow me on, on, uh, You know, if you're on Facebook and you do Facebook a lot, I'm on Facebook.
Very cool. Yeah. I follow you on Instagram. I think my wife follows you on Tik TOK. So yeah, it's, it's really cool. So you're, you're at both of our phones, man. And I, I appreciate what you're doing. Um, you know, I know that you've retired from law enforcement, but you were still using your skills to help people, man. God bless you. I appreciate you.
Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate you. God bless you guys.
¶ Closing Remarks and Resources
That's all we have for The Secure Dad Podcast for today. Thank you friend for listening. Take back your privacy and personal data with help from DeleteMe. Get 20 percent off a privacy plan when using the code DAD at checkout. DeleteMe is the official data removal service of The Secure Dad. Keep your kids safe while gaming with my ebook, Level Up. You can get your copy today at the link in the show notes or visit TheSecureDad.com. If you'd like to know more about me, visit TheSecureDad.com.
There you'll find free downloads, books to buy, podcast episodes, and a whole lot more. I'm Andy Murphy and I want you to talk with your kids about what you learned today. Don't make it a big deal. Just talk to them at the level that they're at. You'll be surprised how well it will go.