¶ Welcome to The Secure Family Podcast
This is The Secure Family Podcast. Welcome friend. I'm Andy Murphy, the host and the founder of The Secure Dad. This show is all about empowering parents to protect themselves and their family. I believe that security is the foundation of happiness, and I want your family to be safe and happy. The information that I share on this podcast is for general information purposes only.
My goal is to empower you to make safer decisions for yourself and for your family because our safety is our own responsibility. Today, I get to chat with my friend Josh Summers about the backend of security cameras. We're going to discuss what happens to our footage and who has access to it. All of that and more coming up on The Secure Family Podcast.
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¶ Chatting with Josh Summers from All Things Secured
Today on the show, I welcome back Josh Summers. He is the host of the All Things Secured YouTube channel, where he turns complex technical issues about online privacy and security into simple videos. I have personally learned a lot from Josh. Through the years, the channel has grown to almost 400,000 subscribers with 40 million views. And he covers everything from encrypted communication to how to mask your personal data to simple steps that you can do to secure your mobile devices.
But most importantly, he's a dad. Here's my conversation with Josh Summers. So Josh, thank you so much for coming back on the show. I think this is your third time. Remind everybody who you are and what you do
Is it really my third? I,
it. I think so. Yeah. Yep.
Well, I feel honored. Andy. Uh, thank you so much for having me back. Uh, yeah. I am the host of the All Things Secured YouTube channel and website. My whole goal is to just simplify complex. Privacy and security issues that I know all of us are having to face in some way or another as we just enter into this constantly changing world of, uh, of online and digital privacy.
Yeah, it constantly changing is, is absolutely right. We've, uh, seen like technology has just taken off, especially with AI and all of that.
¶ Understanding Home Security Cameras: Wired vs Wireless
But today I wanted to bring you in and talk about home security cameras because I was wanting to cover this aspect of kind of like behind the scenes of home security cameras. What happens. Beyond the lens, and then you came out with this amazing video that explained pretty much everything that I was researching. I'm like, well, let's just bring Josh on and have him explain it and his use, his expertise.
So generally speaking, people can get two types of home security cameras, ones that run off of wifi and ones that are wired. Kind of break those down for us and, and tell us what we need to know.
Yeah, well with between those two categories, wired and wireless, uh, you have different strengths and different weaknesses. What I said in that video, and I'll probably re reiterate a few times as we're talking here, is there isn't like a single best camera system because we all have really different needs and different threat models. Uh, and so when I think of wired versus wireless, a lot of it has to do with one, convenience and two, what you're protecting against, right?
So when it comes to wired, there's a lot of inconvenience when it comes to installation. Running wires through your house, uh, unless you have it pre-wired, can be really time consuming, maybe even costly. Uh, and then you're also having to worry about, you know, what if those wires get cut. So you need to make sure that those wires are put in or installed in a way that, that are not easy to tamper with. Uh, however, on the wireless side of things.
Although it's so much easier to install from a consumer point of view, uh, it's also somewhat easy to jam a wireless system.
Right.
then if you are, you know, if everything relies on that connection to the internet, if something happens to your connection to the internet, that can also hamper how you're able to access the footage from your camera where and how it's stored, all of that stuff. So again, there are pros and cons to each, I would say the. Average person is probably gonna do best with a wireless system, and thankfully that's the one that's most available on the market right now.
Right. Yeah, you could, you like just walking down my street, I can see, okay, that's a Ring over there. That's, you know, all this one and that one and all sorts of stuff. So yeah, it's, it's, they're, they're everywhere now, which I think is, is good for homeowners 'cause a lot of people wanted to go out and get those. 'cause it does give you a sense of security, uh, and documenting what's happening on your property. But a lot of us don't think about like what happens on the other side.
Of that lens.
¶ Data Storage and Access for Security Cameras
So kind of walk us through what happens to this data? What's the workflow? Where, where does it go after the camera?
Yeah, that's, that is the key question. I think when, when I'm worried about, the data privacy and, and everything that's happening, I think it, for me, it really breaks down into three different ways that our data is both stored and accessed. You have two options of storage. One is local and one is cloud. A lot of the cameras you're gonna see from Google, from Amazon, they are, they basically force you to store everything in the cloud, meaning on their servers.
So it's gonna be on AWS servers, it's gonna be on Google servers, uh, could be anywhere in the world. It will be. to some degree. Like it will be encrypted in some way, but those files are not stored at your house. They're uploaded through the internet and stored in the cloud. The other option you have is local storage, right?
That could be some kind of base station that comes with your camera system, or if you have a nas, which is a network attached storage, I always have a hard time saying that altogether
it is a tongue twister.
storage, uh, if you have that set up, you can, um. a number of different camera systems to record directly to your nas. And so now you own the files and they're stored locally. within that, there are differences in how you access those files. So there, like I said, going back to those three ways. Let's say that you've got local storage. access. Right? That's one way that you, that you can have a setup.
That's where everything from my camera goes into some kind of local storage, and I can only access that locally. I go in, I plug in a USB drive, or I get on my computer, whatever it is, and I can, uh, access that. The, the risk there, by the way, just so you know when you're coming, when you're doing anything with local, is that one, if I'm a. A, a burglar and I go in and I see that you have a camera system and maybe I know that kind of camera system.
I'm like, oh, all I've gotta do is grab the base station where it holds all of the local files and rip it out. Um, you know, the, I would be, I would consider where you place that base station instead of just putting it, you know, right out with a sign that says, this is where I store all of my camera footage.
It's right.
be careful about that. Um, it's a little bit harder with a NAS to be able to go in and, and take that, but it, that's still the possibility. So you have local storage, local access, then you have what I'm gonna call local storage, virtual access.
Mm-hmm.
where you could actually set it up with your nas, where you could have a VPN that goes into that nas, uh, which is a ver which is a network, a virtual network where I could be anywhere in the world and I can access. Those files. Uh, same with, you know, the system that I've set up right now, it has local storage, but I can access it through my phone virtually anywhere in the world. So it's still stored locally, but I have virtual access.
And then finally we've got cloud storage, cloud access, and that's where everything's stored in the cloud, with Amazon, with Google or with whoever. And now I can access it through their system and get access to those files and it's a lot harder for. burglar or anybody else to get those files erased. So there, there is a little bit of protection there.
Yeah, and you, you broke those down beautifully. And, and, and you're right. Being able to have, like, if it's local, if that's what you're looking for, that's great, but you've gotta hide that server. So, you know, I guess I'll take my big sign down that says, you know, that's where it goes. It's a great, great security tip there, Josh. Um, but yeah, then you have the convenience of the cloud. So. For everybody who's listening. Alright.
We're, we're kind of talking about stuff that most consumers don't really think about.
¶ The Importance of Data Privacy
Why do I need to care about this? Why do I need to care about this flow of this data and, and how it's managed?
You know, and it's interesting, Andy, you and I didn't really have much of a pre-call conversation here. One of the things that I wrestled with, even before I made my own video about all of this is just this That I. Do I really care? Like, and, and I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's like, okay,
Uh
a camera on my porch that's facing the street. Do I really care if somebody else gets access to that footage,
mm-hmm.
want to acknowledge that, especially for somebody that's listening to this or watching this and thinking to themselves, why are we what? just seems over the top. Who cares if it's stored locally or in the cloud? We're talking about a camera that's pointed at my backyard, or a camera that's pointed at my front yard. I totally get that. And again, when it comes to this type of stuff, there are levels of, I don't wanna call it paranoia, because that sounds bad.
There, there are just threat levels where different people are comfortable with different things. Uh, and so just because you don't mind having your front porch, uh, you know, you could broadcast that on YouTube and you don't care. Other others of us actually. Do care. Uh, and I think it really, there's a step up whenever, if you're the type of person that has any kind of camera that's pointed inside your house, one, I would be very careful about that in
Yes. Mm-hmm.
if there is a camera that's pointed inside your house, that's when I would say I. Okay, where is your data being stored and how, and who can access that, that footage? Um, because, you know, we've seen, and we've heard the news stories that are, you know, sometimes a little fantastic and wild about, you know, they were in their nursery and then some person just randomly started talking to them through
Mm-hmm.
The reality is nothing. Nothing terrible happened because of that, but the feeling of invasion of privacy,
Sure.
kind of like just being, you know, being burglarized or having someone, you know, get into your car even if they didn't steal anything. It's just this feeling of, oh my goodness, like I. That was my private, that that was private stuff and somebody just got into that. So as you think about setting up these cameras, making sure you know, alright, how, how comfortable am I if this footage was seen by anybody else? And then acting accordingly. Do does that mean that I need to get local storage?
Does that mean that I need to change the way that I place these cameras? All of that should play into your decisions.
A agreed completely. And you know, you talked about, you started your, your response with, oh, if it's just my front yard or if it's just my backyard. You know, who really cares? And I completely agree there. But, you know, talking about bringing the cameras inside the home, that's when things really start to step up. I pretty much tell folks like, I don't trust cameras inside my house. So like, that's just one thing I, I don't really wanna go for.
And I know that that's something that, uh, is important to you as well.
Well to, you know, on the, to play devil's advocate here for just a moment, because
Hmm.
you're right, I don't have any cameras in my house and I don't think I would. I do have one in my studio here. there's a lot of high value equipment, and I could see, okay, let's say you're, you're the type of person that has a music room that has a lot of high value instruments or something, and you want to be able to monitor that, or you have your own studio or you have this place that you wanna make sure.
Is, you know, your kid, no kid is getting into this place, or there's, there's, you know, it's, it's remains safe. Those are, those are times in which I can say, I can see, okay, there's a reason why you want to have a camera in this place.
Right. Yeah. And, and really I don't want it to like capture footage of like me and my family in intimate moments, like eating dinner or like earlier tonight when a taco fell all over my shirt and I had to change and all that sort of stuff. You know, that's the kind of stuff I, I, I don't really want anybody seeing. So going back to like the date E Exactly. Those are the embarrassing moments that I just want my wife and my son to know. Um, yeah.
Yeah. So, uh, going back to like the, the data management of this, um, does it matter, like if we have, um, cloud storage, does it matter where those cloud servers are located? Like what country they're in, that sort of thing. Is that something that we need to be concerned about?
Yeah, well now we're getting into some, some stuff that goes beyond just cameras.
About Right..
When I, when I talk about anything that's made electronically, and especially when we're dealing with data, data storage, I. Um, I am somewhat concerned about origin. Where, where are the, where are the products that I'm using manufactured? There, there are reasons, uh, to be possibly concerned about that. And then where is the data being stored? Is this servers in Asia? Is this servers in the US?
you talk to most companies and they'll tell you, oh, you know, if you're in the US we'll store it on US servers. It, it even makes sense. It's a lot closer, but there's not always that guarantee. Um, you know, they're gonna put it on there. Maybe they'll keep a copy on another server. The reason why that's important though, is because when it comes to encryption. Encryption is taking and turning data that is personal data. Maybe it's even just the way that you access the internet.
It could be these files that you store and scrambling that, so it's not easy to see. I. Right. I like to think of encryption like a, a locked door. What, whatever's behind this locked door is that's my private room and I want to keep things private that are in there, be it your video files or an email that you sent that's encryption. Now, when you lock that door, you have a key that's your key to the encryption.
And most of the time when we're dealing with what's known as end-to-end encryption, I am the only person that owns that key. And that's a good thing because that means that nobody else can get in that room. Nobody else can see those files except for me. The problem and the this is, you know, a legitimate problem here is that if I lose that key, nobody else can help me get access to that room.
right.
is on me to make sure that I'm responsible with that key. usually when we're dealing with companies like Amazon and Google, they don't want customers to go through the heartache of losing access. So they say. Great. We're gonna give you a key, and we're not really gonna say this out loud, but just so you know, we're gonna keep a key for ourselves so that if you lose your key, we can get in. It's still encryption and we're gonna still call it encryption.
It's not end-to-end encryption, but we're gonna still call it encryption because it is. But now we also have access, and that's what a lot of people don't realize when it comes to encryption, is that a lot of times these companies have backend access. And that's where an imp, you know, a rogue employee or even a a, an employee with a legitimate reason, can go in and access these files.
So anything that I store in Google Drive, anything that I would store on a Google Nest, which is their camera system or an Amazon ring, I need to assume that an employee from Google or Amazon. Could access that.
Yeah.
I go any further, Andy, I, I wanna mention one more thing. There are cases, and Amazon is one of them, where if you wanted to, you can go into the settings by default, they keep a key, but you can go into the settings and request for end-to-end encryption. So in other words, you can go into Amazon's ring and say, listen, I don't want you guys to have an extra key. I'm gonna take on the responsibility of owning the only key and having end-to-end encryption, but I want that added security.
You have to go in and do that, but it is possible.
Right. And that's, that's a, a great point to bring up. You know, we don't necessarily want other people to have keys to our house that we don't know, that we don't trust. So we don't want them to have the keys to the cameras to our house as well. And plus, um, there are some times where government agencies will lean on companies and say, Hey, we really need to see what's going on here. Maybe that's legitimate. Maybe it's not, but that's something that we also need to consider as well.
¶ Choosing the Right Security Camera System
Um, so Josh, you know, in all of your research and all of that, you've done give me the All Things Secured checklist. If I am buying a new camera system, what is it that I need to look for? What is it that I need to purchase?
So the framework that I came up for for myself is I wanted to look at five different things. I wanted to look at the storage, where, and these, these are all things we've kind of already gone through right here. I wanna look at the storage. I wanna know is it stored locally or in the cloud. And for me, I would prefer to store locally. I just wanna be able to own those files. Uh, connectivity. We talked about this. Do you want wired or do you want wireless? Uh, do you where, what is the origin?
That's, again, where was this camera made? Where is the data being stored? If it is being stored or if we're accessing it? That's another thing that we didn't really talk about, like if we're doing the local storage, virtual access. How are you accessing that? If you
Mm-hmm.
VPN, you can kind of dictate where that goes. But if you're going through a company, you know, I use a camera from a Singapore company and I had to ask them, I emailed them and literally asked, how is this data flow? Where is it going through? And they told me it was going through Singaporean servers. And for me, I was, I was okay with that, um, as opposed to servers in other Asian countries. Uh, the fourth thing I wanted to look at was pricing models.
You're gonna see this a lot where you can get into a monthly contract with these cameras that, uh, just, it sets you up to make, to spend a lot more than if you were to just do this one time thing and, and one time purchase. I don't want to, uh, like I don't know about you. I've already got a number of, I. Things, subscriptions
Yeah.
monthly budget. And I
Mm-hmm.
another one just to have, uh, you know, a camera, when there are so many great options that don't require a subscription. So, you know, I would personally look for one that doesn't have a subscription pricing. And the final one is encryption. Uh, how is this data encrypted? And Andy, again, this is one of those things, if you go onto a camera manufacturer's website. Every single one of them is gonna say, we have the highest standard of encryption. We will protect your data.
The only way you're really gonna know, and even this, you're gonna be taking their word for it, is emailing in and saying, can you explain what kind of encryption, uh, and is it end to end encryption? And they'll. Probably send you a, you know, a detailed, uh, list that may not make sense. You can just pop it into chat GPT and ask it. You know, Hey, is, explain this to me as if I'm a 5-year-old and, and
Right.
to do it. Um, but those are the, those are the five things that I'm looking for. Storage, connectivity, origin, pricing and encryption and all that. If you were to take the first letters, spells, scopes of, I'm scoping out what kind of camera that I want.
That's great. Yeah. And, and I like the acronym a lot 'cause that really does encompass everything that, uh, we need to go. Um, so in thinking about these, these camera systems and everything that we have today. You talked about, Hey, you know, maybe we shouldn't care about this, and this is a just a general privacy thing. For somebody who says, Andy, I don't have anything to hide. I don't care if somebody can see my security footage. What do you say to that?
Yeah, and that's extremely common and, and I want anybody who's listening or watching this who does kind of feel that a little bit, to not feel like I'm. you in any way, because I'm
Mm. Right.
even feel that, uh, that is a natural feeling. Um, and, and I would, it, it's really a shift in your perspective here, because it's not about hiding something, which is generally the way we feel about privacy. You know, somebody's worried about privacy because they're, they're trying to hide something or trying to do something illegal. wouldn't, I wouldn't.
Think of it like that, privacy and the pursuit of good privacy is more about control and understanding that I want, it's my data, so I want to know, I wanna be able to control who gets it, how they get it, and what they can do with it. And that is more when I, when I change it to that perspective, um, there's a lot of things in our lives that we're not just gonna give over to anybody that asks for it. And yet. For some reason, we do that with our data.
Uh, we do that with our personal information. We do that with our address, our phone number, our credit card. And what happens? Well, we get inundated with spam. We get phishing calls and emails, like all of this stuff that potentially could be avoided. But the problem, the biggest thing that I want to point out here, Andy, is that, uh. The thing about privacy is that once you lose it, it's kind of like when we talk about, you know, words spoken
Mm-hmm.
you've said that thing to your wife or you've said that thing that you wish you could take back, you, you can't like reverse time and like put it back in your mouth. The same thing applies to privacy. Once you've lost your privacy. You cannot gain it back. So I want to be as stingy as I can about what I have to give out because I don't wanna find out later down the road, oh, I shouldn't have done that.
The number of people that went onto MySpace and Facebook when it first was out and just went crazy sharing everything they wanted to
Yeah.
are like, they probably wish they hadn't have done that. I would rather be a little bit more cautious so that when. Quantum computers, you know, come down the road or when AI becomes even more of a, an issue that I'm not looking back going, oh man, I wish I hadn't have just handed over all of my data because now look what, what's, what's happened?
Yeah, I have this, uh, dystopian theory that probably in the next 20 years, somebody will be able to just, you know, go to Chet GPT and type in who is Josh Summers, or who is Andy Murphy, and it's gonna pull up all of our social media stuff. It's gonna pull up all of our, you know, our pictures or posts and everything. And it's gonna be, it's, it's gonna be creepy. It's gonna be real creepy, but that's kind of my, my thoughts for the future.
Um, so Josh, like I, I'm gonna run through a scenario here with you and I want, I want your thoughts on this. Think about the average two story suburban home. I'm going to give you three security cameras. Where do you put them?
Hmm. Well, I mean, for me personally, I'm just gonna be worried mostly about the outside.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
and I'm gonna put them in the places that are most vulnerable for the house. So I'm gonna be looking at the front, at the back, and then if the garage is off to the side or in some way, uh, not covered by the front camera, then I'd make sure that there's something in front of there as well. Unless, you know, in my case I had a, a studio that had high value equipment, I would make sure that there's a camera nearby, something like that. Um, but.
you, you can, everybody's gonna have a different reason for putting it in a different location. Um, the way that I've set that up, as you hear me talking about it right now, I'm not putting one on the doorbell, which I know for some people is something they really. Vik and value being able to see who's at the door speaking to a delivery person. I don't live in the US so this is like a, a scenario that I don't, it doesn't even cross my mind delivery. People don't do this out here in Asia.
Um, but I can see a reason why that would be of value. I'd just be really careful about where it's pointing.
Right. Yeah. And that gets into a whole nother conversation of does it show too much of your neighbor's house and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, so yeah, no, those are great, great, great options there. Uh, I like that a lot. And one of the things that, uh, I thought of while we were talking was, you know, if you decide that you want to do a wired security system in your home and you have the cameras with it, wonderful, you can still go by a Ring Doorbell and just put it on there.
But that's the only wireless option you have, just so you can kind of track the Amazon delivery guy coming. There's, there's no rule that says you only have to have one system. If you have the budget for it and that's what you want, you can, you can blend the two.
Yep, exactly.
¶ Final Thoughts
Awesome. So Josh, again, thank you so much for hanging out with me today, educating us on the back end of security cameras. I know people are gonna wanna know more about you and All Things Secured, so where can they find you online?
Well, they can always go to AllThingsSecured.com or they can find me on YouTube, which is at All Things Secured. Um, and then if someone wants to message me, I am on Twitter slash X. It's just at all underscore secured, I believe. And so I'm much quicker to answer that than I am email for sure.
Very cool ma'am. Well, I appreciate you. Thank you for helping us to try to remain more secure and private. God bless you buddy.
Same to you, Andy. Thanks so much.
Well, that's all that we have for The Secure Family Podcast for today. Thank you, friend for listening. A special thanks to Josh for being on the show. Check out his great work at AllThingsSecured.com. Take back your privacy and personal data with help from DeleteMe. Get 20% off a privacy plan when using the code Dad at checkout. DeleteMe is the official data removal service of The Secure Dad. If you are a DIY person and you wanna secure your home, then I have the ultimate checklist for you.
My Family Home Security Assessment will walk you through how to protect your home without making it look or feel like a prison. Download your copy right now of the link in the description. I'm Andy Murphy reminding you that our safety and our privacy is our own responsibility.