Part 2- From Scientist to Professional Trumpeter, Laura Garwin

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,880 Kristin: Hi, and welcome to the second chapter, the podcast 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,700 where Kristin Duffy, the founder and producer behind Slackline 3 00:00:05,700 --> 00:00:08,280 Productions, (that's me!) talks to women who 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,580 started the second, third, or even fourth or fifth chapter in 5 00:00:11,580 --> 00:00:15,390 their lives and careers after the age of 35. If you're 6 00:00:15,390 --> 00:00:17,940 enjoying the second chapter, remember to leave us a rating or 7 00:00:17,940 --> 00:00:21,060 review. It helps others to find us and then they can enjoy it 8 00:00:21,060 --> 00:00:24,210 too. This week, we bring you part two of Laura Garwin's 9 00:00:24,210 --> 00:00:27,120 journey from scientists to professional trumpet player, 10 00:00:27,150 --> 00:00:29,970 we'll hear how serendipity played a role in several of her 11 00:00:29,970 --> 00:00:33,390 life changes and why she finally decided that a career in music 12 00:00:33,420 --> 00:00:34,920 just couldn't wait any longer. 13 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,520 Laura: We all know that life is finite, we shouldn't need 14 00:00:38,550 --> 00:00:42,510 somebody died to bring that home. But it was brought home 15 00:00:42,570 --> 00:00:46,770 and I thought, Oh, if there's something that I want to do with 16 00:00:46,770 --> 00:00:48,420 my life, I should do it. 17 00:00:48,900 --> 00:00:51,870 Kristin: So without further ado, here's part two of Laura's 18 00:00:51,870 --> 00:00:52,470 story. 19 00:00:52,530 --> 00:00:56,730 Laura: So when I thought about continuing into a research 20 00:00:56,730 --> 00:01:00,060 career, leading to teaching at a university, or whatever, I just 21 00:01:00,060 --> 00:01:04,650 thought, well, to really get on in research, all but the most 22 00:01:04,650 --> 00:01:07,950 special people and really, even the special people early in 23 00:01:07,950 --> 00:01:10,620 their careers have to specialise. And I didn't want to 24 00:01:10,620 --> 00:01:14,940 specialise, I couldn't think about one particular bit of 25 00:01:15,420 --> 00:01:18,660 geology that I liked better than other bits. And this is where 26 00:01:18,660 --> 00:01:21,990 serendipity came into my life. I wasn't actually under any 27 00:01:21,990 --> 00:01:25,410 pressure to think about what I was going to do after my PhD 28 00:01:25,410 --> 00:01:27,810 because I had this research fellowship that was going to go 29 00:01:27,810 --> 00:01:32,070 on for another year or two. So I went to a conference in 30 00:01:32,070 --> 00:01:36,360 Strasbourg, where I was going to present some of my work. And I 31 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,690 was going to the talks that had to do with my little piece of 32 00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:44,640 geology. And I met at the conference, a guy who worked for 33 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,650 nature, and he was going to the sessions about everything. 34 00:01:50,370 --> 00:01:53,400 Because that was his job, he worked for nature, he was there 35 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,970 to find out what was going on in the world of Earth Sciences. And 36 00:01:56,970 --> 00:02:00,180 that just sounded like such a great job to me. You just learn 37 00:02:00,180 --> 00:02:03,930 about everything. And then later, in the same conference, I 38 00:02:03,930 --> 00:02:09,240 ran into another guy who had been doing his PhD with me, but 39 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,180 he had finished a little before me, and you're not going to 40 00:02:12,180 --> 00:02:15,120 believe this. But this is the absolute truth. I said, Oh, hi, 41 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,610 Dan, what are you doing? And he said, I've just been offered a 42 00:02:17,610 --> 00:02:20,310 job by nature. But I'm going to turn it down. 43 00:02:21,510 --> 00:02:23,100 Kristin: You're like what, I'm sorry, I have Do you have a 44 00:02:23,100 --> 00:02:23,670 phone number. 45 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,530 Laura: So this was a job, I don't all these years later, I 46 00:02:28,530 --> 00:02:31,800 don't know why he was gonna turn it down. But it was a job as a 47 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,370 sub editor, which the American equivalent is copy editor, the 48 00:02:35,370 --> 00:02:39,780 person who edits the articles for publication. And as I say, I 49 00:02:39,780 --> 00:02:43,980 had not been thinking about applying for jobs because I 50 00:02:43,980 --> 00:02:46,110 didn't need to, in fact, at that point, I hadn't written up my 51 00:02:46,110 --> 00:02:51,930 PhD yet. But as soon as I got home, I wrote to nature. And I 52 00:02:51,930 --> 00:02:58,560 said, Dear nature, any jobs, you've got any jobs going. I'm 53 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,100 just about to finish my PhD. And I'd love to work for nature. And 54 00:03:02,100 --> 00:03:08,250 so they gave me an interview. And what I learned later, was 55 00:03:08,580 --> 00:03:12,090 jobs that nature did not come up very often. At that time, the 56 00:03:12,090 --> 00:03:18,150 editorial staff was tiny. There were literally three people who 57 00:03:18,150 --> 00:03:21,060 had anything to do with handling manuscripts on the physical 58 00:03:21,060 --> 00:03:26,910 sciences side of nature. And one of them, one of them was the guy 59 00:03:26,910 --> 00:03:31,560 I had met at the conference, who was going to all the talks, and 60 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:36,480 the other person was, had just the other job was the one that 61 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,990 my friend Dan had just applied for been offered and turned up. 62 00:03:40,050 --> 00:03:45,210 So anyway, I was just incredibly lucky. And they offered me the 63 00:03:45,210 --> 00:03:49,200 job. And but I hadn't finished writing up my PhD yet. Anyway, I 64 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,290 had to fight a huge battle with the editor of nature, who was a 65 00:03:52,290 --> 00:03:55,020 very forceful personality. And he wanted me to start right 66 00:03:55,020 --> 00:03:55,380 away. 67 00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:01,410 Kristin: Of course, I thought, a force of nature. Oh, I'm 68 00:04:01,410 --> 00:04:02,400 terrible. I'll go on. 69 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,700 Laura: Actually, before he tried to make me start right away. 70 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:09,810 They had to fight a battle for me, because they needed to get 71 00:04:09,810 --> 00:04:14,040 me a work permit. Oh, yeah. Because I was American, and 72 00:04:14,070 --> 00:04:17,280 didn't have any right to work. And they were particularly hard 73 00:04:17,280 --> 00:04:20,010 on people who were students and wanted to stay on after being 74 00:04:20,010 --> 00:04:24,360 students. So again, I was incredibly lucky thinking back 75 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,720 on this, they got turned down when they applied for a work 76 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,600 permit for me. And instead of saying, okay, we'll go to the 77 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,080 next person on the list. They said no will appeal. And in 78 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,700 fact, as I was told the story they had to use, I think his 79 00:04:38,700 --> 00:04:41,790 name was Daniel Macmillan, who was, he was published by 80 00:04:42,210 --> 00:04:45,480 McMillan's, which was like the family firm of Harold Macmillan, 81 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:51,000 the former prime minister and his descendant Daniel was Lord 82 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,120 Macmillan. He was in the House of Lords. That is, I heard the 83 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,970 story he had to pull some strings to help them get the 84 00:04:56,970 --> 00:05:00,510 work permit for me. Wow. So they went to all this stuff. For me, 85 00:05:00,510 --> 00:05:03,180 they got the work permit, they tried to get me to come right 86 00:05:03,180 --> 00:05:06,450 away. And God knows how I had the force of characters that 87 00:05:06,450 --> 00:05:09,180 stand up to the editor of nature, who, again, could have 88 00:05:09,180 --> 00:05:12,300 just gone to the next person on the list. But I said, No, I need 89 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:16,890 to finish my PhD before I start. Anyway, long story short, I 90 00:05:16,890 --> 00:05:22,230 joined nature in whatever it was January of 1986. And, and I 91 00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:25,530 loved it. I just thought I had died and gone to heaven, it was 92 00:05:25,530 --> 00:05:28,170 just the most wonderful thing I could imagine doing. And 93 00:05:28,170 --> 00:05:28,560 eventually, 94 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,960 Kristin: that took you back to the states for a time. That's 95 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:31,140 right, 96 00:05:31,170 --> 00:05:33,360 Laura: I worked my way up through the ranks. Again, I was 97 00:05:33,390 --> 00:05:36,540 just I was lucky with the way people left. Within about six 98 00:05:36,540 --> 00:05:39,690 months of joining as a copy editor, they change things 99 00:05:39,690 --> 00:05:41,940 around. So I was one of two people were handling manuscripts 100 00:05:41,940 --> 00:05:44,970 in the physical sciences, which was wonderful because it meant 101 00:05:44,970 --> 00:05:49,800 that I was handling manuscripts in physics, chemistry, geology, 102 00:05:49,980 --> 00:05:54,630 astronomy, climate environment, basically everything other than 103 00:05:54,630 --> 00:05:58,350 biology. And that was just my dream. Then I became then I 104 00:05:58,350 --> 00:06:01,680 became the physical sciences editor, because the guy who had 105 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,220 been my boss left to found another journal. So most of my 106 00:06:05,220 --> 00:06:08,580 time in London, I was in charge of a team, a growing team that 107 00:06:08,580 --> 00:06:12,720 handled all the manuscripts in physical sciences. Then, the 108 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,470 editor of nature, who was always trying to stir my life up, asked 109 00:06:16,470 --> 00:06:21,510 me to go to Washington to be the North American editor to be in 110 00:06:21,510 --> 00:06:26,190 charge of the Washington office of nature. And, as discussed, I 111 00:06:26,190 --> 00:06:29,970 loved living in England, I was actually I was an active amateur 112 00:06:29,970 --> 00:06:32,670 trumpet player, the whole time I lived in London, that was one of 113 00:06:32,670 --> 00:06:35,640 the things I loved about London, there's an amazing amateur 114 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,030 orchestra scene where the amateur orchestras play in great 115 00:06:39,030 --> 00:06:43,350 venues, and play great music. Anyway, so I was really enjoying 116 00:06:43,350 --> 00:06:47,490 my life in London. So what I said to him was, I was willing 117 00:06:47,490 --> 00:06:52,440 to go to conditions. One was that they get me citizenship 118 00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:55,290 before I left the country. At that point, I had permanent 119 00:06:55,290 --> 00:06:58,650 resident status, which meant that I could work for anyone. 120 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,490 But if I left the country for two years, I would have lost 121 00:07:02,490 --> 00:07:05,130 that. And at that time, obviously, it was not just my 122 00:07:05,130 --> 00:07:08,640 right to work in Britain, it was my right to work in Europe, 123 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,300 right. And there was no way I was going to give that up. So 124 00:07:12,330 --> 00:07:15,810 nature was great. And they paid for the lawyer to get me 125 00:07:15,810 --> 00:07:18,480 citizenship, which was fantastic. And then the second 126 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,540 condition was, I really wasn't sure I wanted to go back to the 127 00:07:21,540 --> 00:07:25,620 States. So I said, I'll go for a year in the first instance. And 128 00:07:25,650 --> 00:07:29,370 we're involved, everybody's moving up, my deputy in London's 129 00:07:29,370 --> 00:07:32,160 moved into my job, but he was told he could do it for a year, 130 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,760 but he might have to go back down after a year. He's a very 131 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,480 nice guy, a lovely guy. He's still the physical sciences, 132 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,780 editor of nature. Hi, Carl. So after a year, living in 133 00:07:42,780 --> 00:07:47,040 Washington, I decided it was okay. And so I stayed there for 134 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,600 five years, and then left nature to go work for Harvard running 135 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:52,260 Research Centre, 136 00:07:52,290 --> 00:07:53,940 Kristin: what were you doing at Harvard with this research 137 00:07:53,940 --> 00:07:54,480 centre, 138 00:07:54,570 --> 00:07:57,270 Laura: as I say, I love working for nature, it was just the most 139 00:07:57,270 --> 00:08:00,480 amazing thing I could imagine. But when I was in Washington, I 140 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,430 got interested in the interface between physical sciences and 141 00:08:05,460 --> 00:08:10,410 biology, which was a very it was the new thing when I was in 142 00:08:10,410 --> 00:08:14,070 Washington was when the human genome was sequenced for the 143 00:08:14,070 --> 00:08:18,150 first time. And biology was becoming a sort of big data 144 00:08:18,180 --> 00:08:21,210 subject, which had never been before used to be that the way 145 00:08:21,210 --> 00:08:25,080 biologists would describe what was going on with proteins 146 00:08:25,110 --> 00:08:27,780 talking to each other was they would draw a cartoon apologies 147 00:08:27,780 --> 00:08:31,500 biologists. But that was a level because it was so hard to get 148 00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:35,610 data in biology, that they were dealing with a handful of genes 149 00:08:35,610 --> 00:08:38,040 or a handful of proteins. And their way of understanding them 150 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,070 was by thinking about them in the abstract. Whereas now 151 00:08:41,070 --> 00:08:45,030 suddenly, with all these new technologies, there were these 152 00:08:45,030 --> 00:08:47,280 things called micro arrays, where you could look at what 153 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,120 1000s of genes were doing at a time and drawing cartoons didn't 154 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,860 cut it anymore. So they were calling on physicists, 155 00:08:55,860 --> 00:08:59,520 engineers, mathematicians, computer scientists to help them 156 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,330 deal with the just truckloads of data that were pouring down on 157 00:09:03,330 --> 00:09:05,850 their heads. So I'd written about these things that were 158 00:09:05,850 --> 00:09:10,110 happening, and new institutions were being started to bring 159 00:09:10,110 --> 00:09:13,530 physical scientists and biologists together. And one day 160 00:09:13,530 --> 00:09:17,670 I got a call from somebody at Harvard, who said, we're 161 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:20,250 starting this new research centre to bring physical 162 00:09:20,250 --> 00:09:22,530 scientists and biologists together, and we're looking for 163 00:09:22,530 --> 00:09:25,410 somebody to help run it. Do you know anybody who might be 164 00:09:25,410 --> 00:09:29,430 interested? And I was so naive, I didn't understand that that 165 00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:30,510 was code for 166 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,110 Kristin: I know, I probably would be like, Well, here's a 167 00:09:34,110 --> 00:09:37,560 nice list of people who would be very well qualified for the job. 168 00:09:37,650 --> 00:09:40,560 Laura: I can't remember how the conversation got around to Would 169 00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:44,340 you be interested? Again, this is serendipity in the sense that 170 00:09:44,460 --> 00:09:48,180 I loved my job at nature. I couldn't imagine leaving nature, 171 00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:51,330 I had this unhealthy relationship with nature. You 172 00:09:51,330 --> 00:09:54,930 probably identify with this where it was more than my job. 173 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:59,580 It was my life. I identified with it. And interestingly, it 174 00:09:59,580 --> 00:10:04,110 was only The music that sort of helped me not 100% identify with 175 00:10:04,110 --> 00:10:07,170 it because like, I would stay way too late at work, but on 176 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,560 days when I had to go to a rehearsal for an orchestra, I 177 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:13,260 would leave absolutely on time because I had to get to my 178 00:10:13,260 --> 00:10:14,070 rehearsal. So 179 00:10:14,130 --> 00:10:16,860 Kristin: that's how I started triathlon. exactly the same. 180 00:10:16,890 --> 00:10:20,370 Yeah, cuz I was always working crazy hours. And I was like, I 181 00:10:20,370 --> 00:10:24,360 actually need something in my life. That's not you this 182 00:10:24,390 --> 00:10:27,720 because that was everything, too. In the morning, I say, 183 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,110 Okay, I think I'm gonna go home. And finally, I was like, This is 184 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:34,020 ridiculous. I'd moved to a new city and was like, it's time for 185 00:10:34,020 --> 00:10:38,880 a hobby, right? Anyway, moving on to you. 186 00:10:40,110 --> 00:10:44,040 Laura: All I knew in my head that this was unhealthy, like 187 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,070 friends would phoned me up and say, let's do something fun on 188 00:10:47,070 --> 00:10:53,340 Saturday. And I'd say, oh, I've got work to do. And I knew that 189 00:10:53,340 --> 00:10:57,090 was the wrong thing. But it was so hard to get away from the job 190 00:10:57,090 --> 00:11:01,560 as it were. And it just so happened that the day The call 191 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:05,820 came in from Harvard, asking me about this other job, I was in 192 00:11:05,820 --> 00:11:08,520 the middle of launching something for nature, physics 193 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,790 portal, we were launching this new thing. For physicists, it 194 00:11:11,790 --> 00:11:15,210 only had the physics content of nature. And it had articles 195 00:11:15,210 --> 00:11:18,480 about articles being published elsewhere in physics, and it had 196 00:11:18,540 --> 00:11:22,290 one of my favourite bits. Actually, I stole off that 197 00:11:22,290 --> 00:11:25,290 wonderful physicist who taught me when I was a freshman at 198 00:11:25,290 --> 00:11:28,620 Harvard. So this was like my labour of love. And it was just 199 00:11:28,620 --> 00:11:31,200 about to launch. And I'd been dealing with the advertising 200 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,440 people that nature to try to sell ads on the back of this, 201 00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:37,500 because you need to make a living as a journal and 202 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:40,500 subscriptions, don't do it on their own. And I've been working 203 00:11:40,500 --> 00:11:43,590 with people for years trying to get more physics ads, because 204 00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:46,890 that's also how you get respect in a publication in a way. 205 00:11:46,950 --> 00:11:50,910 Anyway, that day, the publisher had phoned me up and said, I've 206 00:11:50,910 --> 00:11:54,090 been talking to the ad people, and it's not doing very well, we 207 00:11:54,090 --> 00:11:59,340 may have to shut it down. This is before we even launched it. 208 00:11:59,340 --> 00:12:05,250 And I was working like 16 hour days. So suffice it I was not in 209 00:12:05,250 --> 00:12:10,860 a very good mood. And this call coming in from a university. On 210 00:12:10,860 --> 00:12:15,270 a day when I was a bit fed up about commercialism, just push 211 00:12:15,270 --> 00:12:19,710 the buttons and overcame the inertia I might otherwise have 212 00:12:19,710 --> 00:12:24,240 had about changing the idea even of changing jobs. Yeah. So she 213 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,550 is a woman who was speaking to me said, Why don't you talk to 214 00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:29,310 the director and just can't hurt to talk to him. And as it 215 00:12:29,310 --> 00:12:32,070 happened, he was a scientist to my respected a biologist, whom I 216 00:12:32,070 --> 00:12:36,060 respected very much and and hadn't had met and had warm 217 00:12:36,060 --> 00:12:39,090 feelings towards. And I talked to him. And he said, Well, why 218 00:12:39,090 --> 00:12:43,260 not come for an interview? He can't hurt because, you know, it 219 00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:46,110 was really like cutting the umbilical cord leave leaving 220 00:12:46,110 --> 00:12:49,500 nature, but I did go for the interview. And and it seemed 221 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:52,380 like such a different thing, that once I'd made the decision, 222 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,590 it was fine. I thought, Oh, my God, have I done the right 223 00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:57,540 thing. But it was fine. I made the leap 224 00:12:57,569 --> 00:13:00,629 Kristin: see spent Did you say five years at Harvard than doing 225 00:13:00,629 --> 00:13:01,019 that? 226 00:13:01,079 --> 00:13:04,409 Laura: So yes, I had spent five years at nature in Washington. 227 00:13:04,409 --> 00:13:08,429 And then five years at Harvard, my expectation wasn't that I was 228 00:13:08,429 --> 00:13:12,809 going to spend only five years in my second job. These days, 229 00:13:12,839 --> 00:13:18,749 people change jobs so often, but my dad, he joined IBM, straight 230 00:13:18,749 --> 00:13:22,949 out of his PhD, and still works for IBM. And he's retired 231 00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:29,639 officially, and has been for 27 years. He still has an office at 232 00:13:29,639 --> 00:13:31,979 IBM. And if it weren't for COVID, he would still be going 233 00:13:31,979 --> 00:13:35,189 there two days a week. And he did all sorts of other things on 234 00:13:35,189 --> 00:13:39,809 the side consulting for the government or whatever. But my 235 00:13:39,869 --> 00:13:45,779 image of somebody in a job was that they start the job and they 236 00:13:45,779 --> 00:13:50,159 stay in it. And of course, the world has changed. But it wasn't 237 00:13:50,159 --> 00:13:53,279 surprising to me that I was in my first job for what do we say 238 00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:59,189 16 years, but we got this new centre off the ground. And it 239 00:13:59,189 --> 00:14:02,819 was centred around young people, fellows who came on five year 240 00:14:02,849 --> 00:14:06,419 fellowships, and built a lab and did interesting research, 241 00:14:06,449 --> 00:14:09,359 bringing the sciences together, and then going out into the 242 00:14:09,359 --> 00:14:14,309 world. So in retrospect, five years was a good amount of time 243 00:14:14,309 --> 00:14:18,059 to be there, because I saw one cycle of fellows through on 244 00:14:18,059 --> 00:14:22,589 average, but then it wasn't that I was with every transition in 245 00:14:22,589 --> 00:14:26,999 my life so far, wasn't that I was looking to leave what I was 246 00:14:26,999 --> 00:14:30,959 doing it was that I felt the tug to do something else. That makes 247 00:14:30,959 --> 00:14:33,659 sense. And it's interesting because friends of mine who are 248 00:14:33,659 --> 00:14:37,619 my age, who after I changed career, fo you know, went into 249 00:14:37,619 --> 00:14:41,819 music would talk to me and say, Oh, I'm so envious of you. I 250 00:14:41,819 --> 00:14:45,029 feel stale in what I'm doing, but I can't think of what to do 251 00:14:45,029 --> 00:14:48,539 next. What did you do, but with me, it was never it wasn't 252 00:14:48,539 --> 00:14:51,959 there. It wasn't that I felt it's time to leave. What am I 253 00:14:52,259 --> 00:14:55,139 searched around for something to do next. It's that something 254 00:14:55,139 --> 00:14:59,999 came and made it impossible to stay. Right except for that one. 255 00:14:59,999 --> 00:15:02,189 day when I was pissed off with nature, 256 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,880 Kristin: so many people make a move because they're unhappy 257 00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:09,090 versus to having this pool. And I think having this pool 258 00:15:09,090 --> 00:15:12,060 probably has led to some of your success, because it's not like 259 00:15:12,060 --> 00:15:15,300 you just thought anything else anything but this. Yeah. And 260 00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:17,400 because you have so many broad interests, it seems so far, 261 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,010 there's always been the next thing that makes sense, because 262 00:15:20,010 --> 00:15:22,260 it's something either you've been doing your whole life or as 263 00:15:22,260 --> 00:15:26,160 you mentioned, the serendipity. You're probably rare as someone 264 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:30,150 who's loved a job, and just still has other things to say, 265 00:15:30,180 --> 00:15:32,100 I'm ready to move on. Because there's other things I want to 266 00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:33,210 accomplish, or 267 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,270 Laura: Yeah, what I said to myself when I was leaving nature 268 00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:42,300 was Yes, I love it. But life is finite. And I could keep doing 269 00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:45,990 this thing till I dropped it. But why not try something else? 270 00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:50,520 I love it. But I could love something else and went away. 271 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,060 It's diminishing returns, you've loved something for however many 272 00:15:54,060 --> 00:15:57,840 years, yes, you'll get more love. But there are other 273 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,600 things. So that was when I was leaving nature. When I came to 274 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,040 leave Harvard, it was a life event. Yeah, actually, 275 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,130 coincidentally, it goes back to the man I mentioned, this was he 276 00:16:08,130 --> 00:16:11,850 was the jazz trumpet player who we were together for many years, 277 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,580 but then stopped being together. But we were still very good 278 00:16:14,580 --> 00:16:21,150 friends. And he, he died when I was at Harvard. And he died too 279 00:16:21,150 --> 00:16:26,850 young. And there was a lot left. He wasn't just a trumpet player. 280 00:16:26,910 --> 00:16:32,730 He was a watercolour painter. He was amazingly good. He redid his 281 00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:37,140 whole house by himself, he restored a vintage car by 282 00:16:37,140 --> 00:16:40,500 himself. He did model aeroplanes, he could just do 283 00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:44,910 anything but especially the painting and and these sort of 284 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,590 big projects he had a lot left to do with his life that he 285 00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:52,260 never got a chance to do. I well. And then the other thing 286 00:16:52,260 --> 00:16:55,020 that was happening at the same time, I had taken trumpet 287 00:16:55,020 --> 00:16:59,070 lessons on and off all through my professional life and had 288 00:16:59,070 --> 00:17:02,100 played as an amateur trumpet player, semi professional, 289 00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:05,340 sometimes got paid a bit for it. When I was at Harvard. And 290 00:17:05,370 --> 00:17:09,540 living in the Boston area, I was taking lessons pretty regularly 291 00:17:09,570 --> 00:17:14,040 with a teacher who was quite inspirational. And I was seized 292 00:17:14,070 --> 00:17:17,130 of the idea that I wanted to become a better trumpet player, 293 00:17:17,220 --> 00:17:21,330 but I had quite a demanding day job. So I could practice maybe 294 00:17:21,330 --> 00:17:24,090 an hour before work an hour afterwards, something like that. 295 00:17:24,180 --> 00:17:27,360 And it didn't seem like enough to get better, 296 00:17:27,420 --> 00:17:30,750 Kristin: which it sounds like so much for someone who maybe is 297 00:17:30,750 --> 00:17:34,080 more of a hobbyist and doesn't have it isn't so serious about 298 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,080 it two hours a day is a pretty chunky bit of practice. 299 00:17:37,140 --> 00:17:39,480 Obviously, you were pretty serious about getting better. 300 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,840 Laura: Yeah. And I just Yeah, I was serious about getting 301 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,700 better. And I had role models or people who I wanted to play like 302 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:51,690 that. Go to concerts and hear my teacher playing a Mahler 303 00:17:51,690 --> 00:17:54,210 Symphony. And I was like, that's what I want. You know, it was 304 00:17:54,210 --> 00:17:57,900 very identifiable. So it was in the middle of this that my 305 00:17:57,900 --> 00:18:02,430 friend Collin died. And it was brought home to me very 306 00:18:02,430 --> 00:18:05,490 forcefully, we all know that life is finite. We shouldn't 307 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,930 need somebody dying to bring that home. But it was brought 308 00:18:09,930 --> 00:18:14,190 home and I thought, Oh, if there's something that I want to 309 00:18:14,190 --> 00:18:18,480 do with my life, I should do it. Right. And of course they were 310 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:23,520 all the thoughts of I'm however old I was at the time, late 40s. 311 00:18:23,970 --> 00:18:27,900 Yeah, have I left it too long. But I thought what I don't want 312 00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:33,210 to do is wake up 10 years from now and think back to 10 years 313 00:18:33,210 --> 00:18:36,900 ago and think I should have done it then. And also I thought 314 00:18:36,900 --> 00:18:39,810 what's the worst that can happen? This was harder than 315 00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:43,200 than leaving nature and was both harder and easier. It was harder 316 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,780 than leaving nature. Because when I was leaving nature, I was 317 00:18:45,780 --> 00:18:49,080 staying in the same general realm, scientific publishing 318 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,200 scientific administration. Basically, I was hanging out 319 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,170 with scientists. That's what I did for a living. But this was 320 00:18:55,170 --> 00:18:58,470 completely different. It was easier though, because I was 321 00:18:58,470 --> 00:19:01,740 leaving somewhere. I'd only been for five years. And although I 322 00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:05,910 was enjoying it, it wasn't my identity. Either way, nature had 323 00:19:05,910 --> 00:19:08,550 been. But I said what's the worst that can happen? And 324 00:19:08,550 --> 00:19:11,910 here's here's where I was very fortunate. I didn't have kids. I 325 00:19:11,910 --> 00:19:15,270 didn't have anybody I was responsible for. It was just me. 326 00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:19,650 I had savings. I'd done good jobs for however many years and 327 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:24,180 I'm a frugal person. I just I had that. What's the word 328 00:19:24,180 --> 00:19:27,750 security blanket or I had a bit of leeway. So I thought the 329 00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:33,660 worst that can happen is I go to music college for three years. I 330 00:19:33,660 --> 00:19:36,510 finished music college, I'm a better trumpet player, but not 331 00:19:36,510 --> 00:19:39,570 good enough to be a professional trumpet player. I was 332 00:19:39,570 --> 00:19:43,200 sufficiently confident that my CV would my connections would 333 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,140 still be good enough that I could get back into the world 334 00:19:46,140 --> 00:19:51,390 I'd left one way or another when I can go back to something of my 335 00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:54,000 old life, but I'm a better amateur trumpet player than I 336 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,620 was before. It's funny the word everybody used and still uses if 337 00:19:58,620 --> 00:20:01,770 I tell them you know what i Done. The word everybody uses is 338 00:20:01,770 --> 00:20:05,910 brave, but didn't feel brave. To me. It just felt like the thing 339 00:20:05,910 --> 00:20:07,440 I really wanted to do. 340 00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:09,570 Kristin: I know I do hear people say that was brave for you to 341 00:20:09,570 --> 00:20:12,240 make that decision or try that new thing. And it doesn't feel 342 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,360 like that in your own life. I know that sounds like a really 343 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,330 simple way to put it. But it's just the next step of your life. 344 00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:20,730 I think it's brave what you're saying when you're late 40s 345 00:20:20,730 --> 00:20:23,430 going back to school and trying something that's really out of 346 00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:25,830 the realm of what you've been doing, but you already knew you 347 00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:26,850 loved it. Yeah, 348 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,680 Laura: it's just the next it's the next 349 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,740 Kristin: chapter, if you will, I was gonna say the next step of 350 00:20:31,740 --> 00:20:35,130 your life. And it seems scary, but really logical to me. 351 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,130 Laura: Yes. And of course, in the context in which we're 352 00:20:38,130 --> 00:20:41,430 talking, and I've listened to some of your other episodes, 353 00:20:41,460 --> 00:20:43,890 yeah, people, it's just something people do. And 354 00:20:43,890 --> 00:20:46,560 probably increasingly, people won't use that adjective, 355 00:20:46,590 --> 00:20:48,900 because it'll just see more more natural and what 356 00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:52,380 Kristin: challenges did you find suddenly being back at college? 357 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,840 Like you said, you had some savings. But I imagine there 358 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,660 were financial challenges, there probably were some sort of 359 00:20:57,660 --> 00:21:00,540 challenges based on you being a different age bracket than the 360 00:21:00,540 --> 00:21:03,150 majority of the students, Did you find anything like that? 361 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,310 Laura: I felt very welcomed. I was worried in anticipation that 362 00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:11,670 it would be so weird, me being so much older than the other 363 00:21:11,670 --> 00:21:15,990 students. And in fact, the very first week that I was there, I 364 00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:20,550 was walking down the corridor, and two students, probably 365 00:21:20,550 --> 00:21:22,770 undergrads, because at the Royal College of Music, they have 366 00:21:22,770 --> 00:21:25,770 undergrads and post grads to students were coming towards me, 367 00:21:25,770 --> 00:21:28,470 and one of them said, What are you going to do this weekend, 368 00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:34,980 and the other one said, Oh, probably get plastered. And that 369 00:21:34,980 --> 00:21:38,400 probably wasn't the exact word they used. But But I just 370 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,940 thought, oh, I've not I'm that's not the stage of my life that 371 00:21:41,940 --> 00:21:46,020 I'm in. Although actually, since then, I have thought I probably 372 00:21:46,020 --> 00:21:48,240 should have spent more time in the pub when I was at the 373 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,970 college because most of one's connections seem to come from 374 00:21:50,970 --> 00:21:54,390 spending time in the pub, I think part of the challenge was 375 00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:58,200 just that I was in a different place in my life socially, 376 00:21:58,230 --> 00:22:02,280 right. Although I made some very good friends there, who are my 377 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,300 friends to this day, we formed a brass quintet at the college and 378 00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:09,390 we still play together and or in this environment, have zoom 379 00:22:09,390 --> 00:22:12,450 calls together. And there are now some of my closest friends, 380 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,660 the social life of going to the pub at opening time and staying 381 00:22:15,660 --> 00:22:18,720 till closing time, which I did do when I was a geology 382 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,630 undergraduate, even if I knew that it's a good way of 383 00:22:21,630 --> 00:22:24,990 networking, I can't bring myself to do it. As much as I probably 384 00:22:24,990 --> 00:22:30,030 should, I think a mental challenge was was trying not to 385 00:22:30,030 --> 00:22:34,380 compare myself to people too much. And this is a, I think 386 00:22:34,380 --> 00:22:38,220 this is a constant challenge for any of us. And maybe 387 00:22:38,220 --> 00:22:41,880 particularly in the arts, I'm not sure, in that the people I 388 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,930 was with, a lot of them had been living and breathing music 389 00:22:45,930 --> 00:22:49,230 constantly, since the age of six, they'd gone to junior 390 00:22:49,230 --> 00:22:52,950 college, a lot of them every Saturday growing up before they 391 00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:58,770 went to senior college, or these hot houses, or the post grads 392 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,830 might have just come from three years of music college, whereas 393 00:23:01,830 --> 00:23:05,580 I had been coming from my demanding job trying to practice 394 00:23:05,580 --> 00:23:10,320 an hour or two hours a day. So I felt very behind. But it doesn't 395 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,550 do any good to compare yourself to the other people. And I guess 396 00:23:14,550 --> 00:23:17,670 another good thing I learned at the time was, it's good to have 397 00:23:17,670 --> 00:23:21,840 goals, but not to think about all the things I want to do that 398 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,220 I can't do in terms of my playing. And it's easy to look 399 00:23:26,220 --> 00:23:30,000 and see how far I am from being able to do that. But it's better 400 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,420 to look back and see how far I've come. Because no matter 401 00:23:33,420 --> 00:23:36,150 where you are, you've come from somewhere that's where you 402 00:23:36,150 --> 00:23:38,970 weren't able to do some things you can do now. And it's a much 403 00:23:38,970 --> 00:23:41,940 more positive thing to focus on those things other than the 404 00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:43,140 things you can't get. I was 405 00:23:43,140 --> 00:23:45,030 Kristin: thinking because yesterday I was in a while I was 406 00:23:45,030 --> 00:23:47,490 on a workshop that they talked about sort of bite sized goals. 407 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,190 And there's a quote from Neil Gaiman, about there being a 408 00:23:50,190 --> 00:23:52,470 mountain. And you can see the mountain in the distance 409 00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:55,170 completely paraphrasing. But if it's only about getting to the 410 00:23:55,170 --> 00:23:57,510 top of the mountain, you'll never get there because the 411 00:23:57,510 --> 00:23:59,580 mountains huge. But if you see that the mountains in the 412 00:23:59,580 --> 00:24:01,680 distance, and you can find yourself getting closer to the 413 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,710 mountain and I really liked that. But even better than bite 414 00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:07,470 size goals is sometimes actually taking the time to look back and 415 00:24:07,470 --> 00:24:09,540 see how far you've come. Because I don't think we spend enough 416 00:24:09,540 --> 00:24:10,770 time doing that. Yeah, I 417 00:24:10,770 --> 00:24:13,530 Laura: think that's right. It's something that I'm particularly 418 00:24:13,530 --> 00:24:17,010 bad at is I tend to compare myself to other people. So even 419 00:24:17,010 --> 00:24:17,520 in the past. 420 00:24:19,470 --> 00:24:21,570 Kristin: That is so something I know about you from the dress. 421 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:26,130 Okay. You are a musician now professionally, you graduated. 422 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,650 How old? were you when you graduated? I know. Sorry about 423 00:24:28,650 --> 00:24:31,470 the age question. It's not a favourite of anyone's, but 424 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,010 Laura: I've given up trying to soft pedal my age. I'm gonna own 425 00:24:35,010 --> 00:24:35,610 it now, 426 00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:38,520 Kristin: as you should, um, you've done plenty. 427 00:24:40,050 --> 00:24:43,440 Laura: Yeah, except there is this second chapter thing where 428 00:24:43,620 --> 00:24:46,350 maybe I've done plenty in a previous life, but it doesn't 429 00:24:46,350 --> 00:24:48,600 really count in my current life. Now. That's 430 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,460 Kristin: you comparing yourself to other people again. 431 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,530 Laura: Yeah. All right. All right. We won't turn this into a 432 00:24:52,530 --> 00:24:56,940 therapy session. So I finished in 2009. So I must have been 433 00:24:56,970 --> 00:25:01,290 just getting on for 52 Yeah, but In a way, it was still pretty 434 00:25:01,290 --> 00:25:05,520 easy at that point because I had just graduated and you put on 435 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:10,620 your CV graduated from the Royal College of Music in 2009. And I 436 00:25:10,620 --> 00:25:14,460 didn't put graduated from Harvard in 1977. 437 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,760 Kristin: Right? We haven't mentioned this, but you're 438 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,400 saying royal. So we know that you're back in the UK at this 439 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:20,820 point, 440 00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:23,099 Laura: I basically had two choices. When I was applying to 441 00:25:23,099 --> 00:25:25,349 music college, I could either stay in Boston where I was, 442 00:25:25,349 --> 00:25:28,649 which I loved. And inertia has always been a powerful, 443 00:25:28,739 --> 00:25:31,799 actually, as I say that I seem to contradict that. But believe 444 00:25:31,799 --> 00:25:35,579 me in my own head, inertia is very powerful. And if you'd 445 00:25:35,579 --> 00:25:38,429 asked me when I was applying to music colleges in Boston, and in 446 00:25:38,429 --> 00:25:41,189 London, I would have said, If I get into New England 447 00:25:41,189 --> 00:25:44,339 Conservatory, I'm going to stay because at the moment, at that 448 00:25:44,339 --> 00:25:48,059 time, I was living a 20 minute bus ride from New England 449 00:25:48,059 --> 00:25:52,409 Conservatory I loved where I was living. I liked Cambridge mass. 450 00:25:52,469 --> 00:25:56,219 But when I got into both mega conservatory and the Royal 451 00:25:56,219 --> 00:25:58,679 College of Music, I went to an open day at the Royal College 452 00:25:58,679 --> 00:26:01,619 and oh my god, London is just such an amazing place to do 453 00:26:01,619 --> 00:26:05,999 music. Boston has the Boston Symphony and one and a half, 454 00:26:06,089 --> 00:26:11,009 sort of minor opera companies, apologies Boston, London has for 455 00:26:11,009 --> 00:26:15,989 World Class symphony orchestras, two World Class opera companies 456 00:26:16,019 --> 00:26:19,229 that value everything, there's just so much. And then the 457 00:26:19,229 --> 00:26:23,519 college also put on a good open day. And it just seemed like it 458 00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:26,549 was going to be a wonderful place to go. Plus, I had lived 459 00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:30,419 here I had lots of friends here. I think you had talked once 460 00:26:30,419 --> 00:26:33,509 about having two homes. And that's the exact same way I feel 461 00:26:33,539 --> 00:26:38,399 when I was flying back to London to go for the Open Day. And I 462 00:26:38,399 --> 00:26:40,919 had left my home in Cambridge mass, which really felt like 463 00:26:40,919 --> 00:26:44,309 home. As the plane was landing in London, I felt like I'm 464 00:26:44,309 --> 00:26:45,059 coming home, 465 00:26:45,180 --> 00:26:48,300 Kristin: end up calling a lot of different places home, or at 466 00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:51,090 least a few different places where you grew up where you 467 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,209 Laura: lived, where my friends are. And for me, that's what's 468 00:26:54,209 --> 00:26:57,089 so important. Exactly, yeah. So I was back in London. And when I 469 00:26:57,089 --> 00:27:00,059 finished at the college, the obvious choice was to stay in 470 00:27:00,089 --> 00:27:02,969 London, because this is where my connections were the idea of 471 00:27:02,969 --> 00:27:06,299 just turning up in Boston and saying, Hello, I'm a recent 472 00:27:06,299 --> 00:27:10,589 graduates, musician. And what made it really easy. And 473 00:27:10,589 --> 00:27:14,099 actually, the smartest thing I ever did in my life, bar none 474 00:27:14,129 --> 00:27:17,609 was that I already had a flat that I bought when I had my dog 475 00:27:17,609 --> 00:27:20,939 at nature. And the smartest decision was not selling it. 476 00:27:20,969 --> 00:27:24,599 When I moved back to the United States. Some people say oh, 477 00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:27,869 yeah, what a great investment. The reason I didn't sell it was 478 00:27:27,989 --> 00:27:30,419 I thought there was some chance I would come back, I didn't 479 00:27:30,419 --> 00:27:34,859 know. And I had looked at literally 100 flats before I 480 00:27:34,859 --> 00:27:38,849 bought this flat. I was the same room. I was the same. 481 00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:42,779 Kristin: Yes. The first thought I had here it took, I would save 482 00:27:42,779 --> 00:27:44,279 and more like 150 I had a 483 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:44,970 Laura: stack. 484 00:27:45,539 --> 00:27:48,299 Kristin: That was huge of all the brochures they had handed me 485 00:27:48,299 --> 00:27:52,079 and everything but it was so it's so hard here the balance of 486 00:27:52,139 --> 00:27:57,209 affordability and location and having any space and oh my god, 487 00:27:57,209 --> 00:28:00,779 I looked at so many. Yes. So I understand. But when you say 488 00:28:00,780 --> 00:28:02,940 Laura: looked at Did you physically look at them? Or are 489 00:28:02,940 --> 00:28:04,650 you just Yeah, yeah, good. 490 00:28:04,679 --> 00:28:07,409 Kristin: I physically went to these places. It was different 491 00:28:07,409 --> 00:28:10,829 from the flat I live in now, which had a lot to do with 492 00:28:10,829 --> 00:28:14,639 location because it's close to the travelling club. But yeah, I 493 00:28:14,669 --> 00:28:17,849 physically looked at and the some of the things they showed 494 00:28:17,849 --> 00:28:20,489 me, I was like, for the amount of money that you're telling me 495 00:28:20,489 --> 00:28:23,279 this flat cause you've got to be hitting me Oh, I 496 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,490 Laura: know, when I came back, my original idea was that I 497 00:28:26,490 --> 00:28:31,470 would rent a flat because my flat is actually a two bedroom 498 00:28:31,470 --> 00:28:35,820 flat when I bought a flat fee or nothing like they are now in 499 00:28:35,820 --> 00:28:38,670 terms of price and I thought I don't need a two bedroom flat. 500 00:28:38,850 --> 00:28:43,050 I'm a starving music student. And I'm just going to get a 501 00:28:43,050 --> 00:28:45,750 cheap flat somewhere near the world, actually not anywhere 502 00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:47,760 near the Royal College of Music because you can't afford to live 503 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,480 in Kensington and I looked at flats when I came back to go to 504 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,770 that open day. And they were so expensive. Yeah. So I decided to 505 00:28:55,770 --> 00:28:58,410 stay in I decided to stay in London because all my 506 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,020 connections were here. I don't know why we're talking about a 507 00:29:01,020 --> 00:29:04,440 flat. So I stayed because I had my connections and I with my 508 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:09,330 teachers and my colleagues. And so I have been a freelance 509 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,620 musician ever since. And I'm still climbing the greasy pole. 510 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,860 I don't love doing auditions. You have to do audition. Who 511 00:29:16,860 --> 00:29:22,740 does? Oh, yeah, I did. auditions. I got on to one extra 512 00:29:22,740 --> 00:29:26,370 list. But I haven't gone in with the big orchestras yet. That's 513 00:29:26,370 --> 00:29:30,330 still an ambition. I'm on the depth list for some West End 514 00:29:30,330 --> 00:29:34,500 shows. I would love to play in the West End. I was about to sit 515 00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:37,680 in on my Ms. It was supposed to be three days after this 516 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:38,820 lockdown started. 517 00:29:40,380 --> 00:29:43,440 Kristin: I hate I've heard that from some not that exactly. But 518 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,870 I've heard similar stories from so many people. It's so 519 00:29:45,870 --> 00:29:46,770 frustrating. 520 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,760 Laura: Yeah, there is an element of starting over again. Well, 521 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,720 people have forgotten me. I did get to do some work in lockdown 522 00:29:54,750 --> 00:29:57,030 I there's an orchestra that I play with regularly called 523 00:29:57,030 --> 00:30:00,270 Covent Garden Sinfonia. We managed to do a cover recording 524 00:30:00,270 --> 00:30:04,320 session actually for Fitbit in November, and I had some gigs in 525 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,860 November in December some Carol concerts where sadly the 526 00:30:07,890 --> 00:30:11,160 congregation had to wear masks and weren't allowed to sing. I 527 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:11,340 got 528 00:30:11,340 --> 00:30:13,560 Kristin: to hear you play around Christmas time. And did you? 529 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,240 Yes, I did not at a concert. It was a special concert for 530 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,930 wilston. And I do have to say zoom Christmas party felt 531 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,320 infinitely more festive with a little trumpet music. Oh, good. 532 00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:27,870 What do you can sing or not is a good one that we didn't get to 533 00:30:27,870 --> 00:30:30,660 sing because we were assuming. So I think you're downplaying 534 00:30:30,660 --> 00:30:33,090 how far you have come though. Because I do feel you're like, 535 00:30:33,090 --> 00:30:35,070 Oh, I'm still climbing the greasy pole. I've been a 536 00:30:35,070 --> 00:30:37,710 freelancer but you've played with some pretty, you've played 537 00:30:37,710 --> 00:30:40,410 a lot. You've managed to make a career off of a freelance 538 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:41,850 musician life. 539 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,190 Laura: Yeah, combined with some other things. I've done some 540 00:30:44,190 --> 00:30:47,520 freelance work for nature as well to help pay the bills, put 541 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,690 food on the table, done a bit of tutoring. But yeah, I think we 542 00:30:51,690 --> 00:30:55,200 all I think every performing musician, almost every 543 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,870 performing musician does something other than perform. 544 00:30:58,260 --> 00:31:01,560 And most people combine it with teaching their instrument, I 545 00:31:01,590 --> 00:31:05,340 took a constant conscious decision not to do that, because 546 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,570 other kinds of freelance work are more flexible. So for 547 00:31:09,570 --> 00:31:12,450 instance, if I'm doing some writing or editing, I can do 548 00:31:12,450 --> 00:31:16,050 that at midnight and my flat, the deadlines are usually long 549 00:31:16,050 --> 00:31:20,190 enough that if I suddenly get a call to go play, I don't have to 550 00:31:20,190 --> 00:31:22,830 turn it down. Because I'm teaching the students in an hour 551 00:31:22,830 --> 00:31:26,490 or whatever. I am making a career and I'm enjoying it. And 552 00:31:26,490 --> 00:31:31,080 one thing, one thing that I was reminded of these few times that 553 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,010 I got to play during lockdown was just the sheer joy of 554 00:31:35,010 --> 00:31:37,650 playing with other people. I have been keeping up the 555 00:31:37,650 --> 00:31:41,310 practice in my practice room, but it's not the same. And I 556 00:31:41,310 --> 00:31:44,850 have done some recordings where you record your own part and 557 00:31:44,850 --> 00:31:49,080 then they mix it afterwards. And boy, is that not the same? No, 558 00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:50,130 Kristin: definitely not. 559 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,080 Laura: So you know, this recording session we do with 560 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,570 Covent Garden Sinfonia where most of us hadn't seen each 561 00:31:54,570 --> 00:31:57,990 other for 10 months. But there's just the joy of seeing each 562 00:31:57,990 --> 00:32:01,140 other as friends and then playing with these wonderful 563 00:32:01,140 --> 00:32:04,020 musicians. I am lucky in that a lot of the groups I play it 564 00:32:04,020 --> 00:32:07,170 everybody else is better than I am. Just I know I shouldn't say 565 00:32:07,170 --> 00:32:07,350 that. 566 00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:09,600 Kristin: I rolled my eyes. 567 00:32:10,530 --> 00:32:12,450 Laura: I just feel privileged to be playing with them. 568 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,490 Kristin: They're equally privileged to play with you. 569 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:15,660 Laura: Thank you very much. 570 00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:18,180 Kristin: I promised everybody we'd talk briefly about you 571 00:32:18,180 --> 00:32:22,050 joining the travel club as well. So the reason I know Laura is 572 00:32:22,050 --> 00:32:25,050 because I am her coach for triathlon, you mentioned that 573 00:32:25,050 --> 00:32:27,720 you did sports in school, but you came to triathlon, quote 574 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,470 unquote, later in life as well. So what kind of inspired you to 575 00:32:31,470 --> 00:32:33,390 suddenly decide to become 576 00:32:33,420 --> 00:32:36,840 Laura: a triathlete? For me it was really just I want to keep 577 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,400 fit, and I was already cycling a lot. Cycling is my way of 578 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,820 getting around London. And I had recently at that point started 579 00:32:44,820 --> 00:32:48,060 swimming again at the sports centre where the track club is 580 00:32:48,060 --> 00:32:51,510 based. And I guess I don't even know how I learned about the 581 00:32:51,510 --> 00:32:54,900 track club. I must have seen some publicity and I had always 582 00:32:54,900 --> 00:32:57,360 hated running. So I thought, okay, I'm already doing two 583 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,390 thirds of triathlon, why don't I just join this trike of and 584 00:33:00,390 --> 00:33:05,190 learn to like running, and at first, I was the antithesis of 585 00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:09,030 competitive in that I didn't want to do any events. I just 586 00:33:09,030 --> 00:33:12,540 wanted to do it to get fit, but there isn't Christina's smiling 587 00:33:12,540 --> 00:33:15,150 at this point is that she witnessed that if somebody 588 00:33:15,150 --> 00:33:18,690 passed me in the pool, I would suddenly start to go faster. 589 00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:27,870 Kristin: Laura says she has one speed but the minute someone 590 00:33:27,870 --> 00:33:34,710 passes or she is suddenly like Olympic calibre. Maybe this is 591 00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:37,200 turning a new to a therapy session. But do you think that 592 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,900 triathlon has taken the place of trumpet when you were working 593 00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:42,600 your job at nature, for example, then you'd come home and have an 594 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,150 hour of practice at night or you'd have an hour in the 595 00:33:45,150 --> 00:33:49,230 morning and you had obviously a friend network around those and 596 00:33:49,230 --> 00:33:52,620 now you have the whole trumpet thing, and you're putting in as 597 00:33:52,620 --> 00:33:55,380 much running as you can. On the sides. I had a sort of friend 598 00:33:55,380 --> 00:33:55,950 network. 599 00:33:56,490 --> 00:33:59,880 Laura: early on. When I started at the Royal College, somebody 600 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,510 asked me about my hobbies. And it took me aback because I 601 00:34:03,510 --> 00:34:06,870 realised I didn't have a hobby anymore. If somebody had asked 602 00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:09,960 that question a month previously, I would have said 603 00:34:10,020 --> 00:34:15,270 Music is my hobby. So yeah, so that was weird because I never 604 00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:19,320 consciously thought in terms of hobbies. So now that you 605 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,850 mentioned it, yes, I suppose the triathlon is now my hobby. And 606 00:34:23,850 --> 00:34:28,110 especially, I have to say through lockdown, shout out to 607 00:34:28,110 --> 00:34:32,070 Willesden triathlon club. They've been amazing, giving us 608 00:34:32,070 --> 00:34:35,160 a social network as well as helping us keep fit. It's been 609 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:36,390 wonderful. But you also 610 00:34:36,390 --> 00:34:38,130 Kristin: are a huge part of that because Laura is one of our 611 00:34:38,130 --> 00:34:41,520 founding members at this point. How many years have you been 612 00:34:41,550 --> 00:34:45,690 Laura: seven? Yeah, so 613 00:34:45,690 --> 00:34:48,270 Kristin: you are officially like your one. We cannot even be one 614 00:34:48,270 --> 00:34:50,520 of those people who doesn't say like, I'm not an athlete, or I'm 615 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,680 not a triathlete or anything anymore, because you're like a 616 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,800 founding member of triathlon club treasurer. 617 00:34:56,010 --> 00:34:57,870 Laura: Actually, that's something locked down did 618 00:34:57,870 --> 00:35:02,430 because until locked out I'd hardly a at first I didn't want 619 00:35:02,430 --> 00:35:05,940 to compete and you guys bounced me into it. We we had an event 620 00:35:05,940 --> 00:35:09,480 and I volunteered at it or I was going to volunteer at it. And 621 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,210 somebody said, Are you going to compete? And I said, Oh, no, I'm 622 00:35:12,210 --> 00:35:15,570 just gonna volunteer. And they said, Well, why don't you 623 00:35:15,570 --> 00:35:18,150 compete? And then suddenly, I was surrounded by five people 624 00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:19,350 saying, why don't you compete? 625 00:35:20,340 --> 00:35:22,350 Kristin: Yeah, I think we may do I really do. 626 00:35:23,370 --> 00:35:26,880 Laura: So I did that, in general, I'm a musician. I do 627 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,290 most of my work at the weekends. And you have to sign up for an 628 00:35:31,290 --> 00:35:34,740 event months in advance, because they sell out. And it happened 629 00:35:34,740 --> 00:35:37,860 to me more than once that I signed up for an event and then 630 00:35:37,860 --> 00:35:42,390 got work and lost my 50 quid or whatever it was, because I had 631 00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:45,480 to go to work. So that's again, the one thing knockdown is done 632 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,080 for you. A I have more time and be I'm not working on the 633 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,590 weekends. And I'm doing events. I've done more events this year 634 00:35:52,590 --> 00:35:56,130 than I had done in the seven years previously. So yeah, 635 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,890 Kristin: you're probably the only triathlete who has ever 636 00:35:58,890 --> 00:36:04,350 said that over lockdown. All right. I'm going to go now to my 637 00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:07,650 question that I posed to everyone about a quote, 638 00:36:07,740 --> 00:36:08,730 Laura: cheesy, 639 00:36:08,850 --> 00:36:13,170 Kristin: but do you have one that either you go to? Or just 640 00:36:13,170 --> 00:36:14,190 that you really enjoy? 641 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,570 Laura: The honest answer is no, I don't have a go to quote, If I 642 00:36:18,570 --> 00:36:21,000 had voted probably would have been the public has always one 643 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:27,000 that popped up last week. Yes. Last episode, because that I was 644 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,210 really taken by that when I first heard it about, why do you 645 00:36:30,210 --> 00:36:33,780 keep practising because I still think I can get better. And 646 00:36:33,810 --> 00:36:38,520 actually, that applies in spades to me, but rather than a quote, 647 00:36:38,610 --> 00:36:43,140 I think something that drives me, and that gives rise to lots 648 00:36:43,140 --> 00:36:45,630 of quotes, if you want to look them up is the whole growth 649 00:36:45,630 --> 00:36:52,710 mindset idea. I came across that just in recent years. And it's 650 00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:55,860 been very powerful for me, and just in case people haven't 651 00:36:55,860 --> 00:36:59,010 heard of it, it's the idea that we can always get better at 652 00:36:59,010 --> 00:37:04,230 things. And it involves the idea that failure is not a bad thing. 653 00:37:04,620 --> 00:37:07,860 But you see the wonderful ice skater doing her triple axels, 654 00:37:07,860 --> 00:37:10,560 and you think, Oh, my God, how does she do that? And you 655 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,580 haven't seen the 89 times she fell on her bum? On the way 656 00:37:14,580 --> 00:37:18,810 there? Yes, earlier is almost the only way we learn and I 657 00:37:18,810 --> 00:37:22,500 realised later on in life that having grown up in a high 658 00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:27,150 achieving family and with the idea more so probably when I was 659 00:37:27,150 --> 00:37:30,390 growing up, then today, I hope the idea that they were smart 660 00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:34,050 people and Oh, you're a You're a smart kid. And they're the smart 661 00:37:34,050 --> 00:37:37,170 kids and the less smart kids or whatever, this idea that 662 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:42,330 intelligence or talent, or any human ability is somehow 663 00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:46,050 inbuilt. And there are some who have it and some who don't, I 664 00:37:46,050 --> 00:37:49,920 think is so pernicious. And if you read Carol Dweck, you learn 665 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,280 all about this, that just the idea of that can lead you to all 666 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,490 sorts of horrible habits shying away from trying something new, 667 00:37:56,490 --> 00:37:58,980 because you think you're not going to be good at it. In fact, 668 00:37:58,980 --> 00:38:04,200 actually, I did find a quote, now occurs to me, thinking about 669 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,900 the growth mindset and shying away from doing something new. 670 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,010 Einstein said, anyone who has never made a mistake has never 671 00:38:11,010 --> 00:38:12,000 tried anything new. 672 00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:14,580 Kristin: Yeah, I've said this to some of the other people I've 673 00:38:14,580 --> 00:38:17,580 chatted with. But I do feel like one of the things I love about 674 00:38:17,610 --> 00:38:20,520 this whole idea of bringing a quote is some of the most 675 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,210 powerful things that people say on the podcast are their own 676 00:38:24,210 --> 00:38:28,620 opinions surrounding what the quote is, I see, I do love a 677 00:38:28,620 --> 00:38:32,580 good quote. But I also love when people start looking into or 678 00:38:32,580 --> 00:38:36,600 thinking about the quote, or the idea of the quote, they always 679 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,480 say something that I think is better than the potentially more 680 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,320 famous person who initially said it. So I do really like what you 681 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,290 said around that. And I love the idea that we have to make 682 00:38:46,290 --> 00:38:50,160 mistakes, because I think both of us are examples of people who 683 00:38:50,190 --> 00:38:53,010 love a lot of different things and want to try new things. And 684 00:38:53,010 --> 00:38:55,800 I hope that neither of us ever stop doing that. 685 00:38:56,490 --> 00:38:58,890 Laura: Absolutely. I sound Einstein. Yes. 686 00:38:58,980 --> 00:39:01,710 Kristin: So on that note, I will say thank you so much for 687 00:39:01,710 --> 00:39:04,590 joining me, Laura. It's been a real pleasure to hear about the 688 00:39:04,590 --> 00:39:07,860 many chapters of your life and you're really inspirational to 689 00:39:07,860 --> 00:39:08,910 me. Thank you very much. 690 00:39:08,910 --> 00:39:11,340 Laura: It's been a pleasure talking to you and see you on 691 00:39:11,340 --> 00:39:13,980 the track someday, fingers crossed. We'll be there soon. 692 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,800 Kristin: Thanks again for listening. The second chapter is 693 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,380 just getting started. So your subscriptions and five star 694 00:39:19,380 --> 00:39:22,530 reviews mean so much. The second chapter is brought to you by 695 00:39:22,530 --> 00:39:25,590 slackline productions, a production company dedicated to 696 00:39:25,590 --> 00:39:28,470 redressing the balance of women stories being told and he's 697 00:39:28,470 --> 00:39:32,460 telling them with a specific focus on women 35 Plus, for more 698 00:39:32,460 --> 00:39:36,690 than slack line, visit slack line productions.co.uk. 699 00:39:37,050 --> 00:39:37,620 Laura: Thanks again.