Hello and welcome back to the Run Sensible Podcast with your host Neil Rooney. It's good to be back on and it's good to have another Friday episode where I sit down in studio with a guest.
Before I go into today's episode, once again I need to thank everybody for all the downloads on the last week's episode where I sat down with... ultra runner lee davies who found a purpose in running after having his brain injury and continuing with that team i have um a local legend around dublin in the studio with me today jr copeland he also has had a brain injury um
Due to the complications of a minor skiing accident that turned his life around quite substantially. But I won't go into that too much. I'll let Jer explain all about that when we go into the episode. But before we dip into that interview, if you want to get in contact with me, you can get me through Instagram. run sensible podcast or you can send me an email at run sensible at gmail.com
A couple of people have been asking me about the coaching that I mentioned in the last episode. And yes, I do a little bit of coaching. I have a small group. So if that's something you're interested in, you can send me a message. Also, my clinic where I treat people, I treat lots of runners for various different injuries. is over in Swords on a weekday basis or on Wednesday mornings I'm in Rahini.
Again, you can send me an email or Instagram if you want to get in contact with any sort of running-related pain and injuries. That's absolutely no problem. Anyway, without any further ado, I'm going to go into this week's episode with Jer Copeland. It's good to be back on and it's good to be in studio sitting down with a guest today. I am with...
Local legend around Dublin running seeing Ger Copeland. Welcome to the podcast, Ger. Thank you very much, Neil. It's great to have you on. Thank you. I'm going to start with you, Ger. We've got a lot of stuff to unpack today and some really interesting stuff that you've been going through.
and talking about but before we do um i'll start with you the way i started with matt collins a couple of weeks ago and john doyle actually to give us your marathon running journey and uh imagine we're going in an elevator um okay um in 2001. That was the Dublin Marathon. At that point, I'd always, I've always been through, I was a cyclist first. I was in my teens, I was a cyclist and got a footballer.
I went to university, it was all getting football, cycling. I always dabbled into running but cycling was my first love. And I went through a phase then when I went self-employed in my very early 20s. I put a shed load of weight on. Really? I went up to 16 stone. And I was on holidays with one of my friends.
we got into an argument she's a physiotherapist and she was a triathlete and it wasn't an argument she was kind of looking at me she goes she had it going over how i would let myself go because i started driving self-employed I bought a house all the same time I suppose I had let myself go without really
uh when i say let myself go we've gone up 16 stone wow so we've gone from 10 stone always racing and just in the space of six months to a year we've gone up to 16 stone wow that quick yeah but it's just i suppose when you're cycling every morning you're sitting there work yeah it's easy to have that cavalry for lunch and it's easy to have that takeaway especially when you're after like i was 21 22 i bought my first house living on my own and it's easy
So it's easy just to get takeaway. Absolutely. And we were on holiday and something came up and she's a triathlete and we got to a heat discussion and she said, And I was like, what? I said, you're a fat bastard. Look, you've let yourself go. And I said, what are you talking about? And she goes, okay, your new pair of jeans you bought to go on holidays. I said, what? Have I got more delay?
I'm only a short arse, I'm only a five or seven." And she goes, okay, and what way... because what ways to change here stop mumbling They're waist 36. And she goes, I'll lay my case down now. You've become fat and obese. You're 21, 22, and you're obese, and you let yourself go completely. And I was like... Hard-hitting messages. It really was. I was like, fuck you. I'll show you. And I said, the Dublin City of Maryland is a couple of months' time. I'll run the market.
I said I will, I'll run it and I'll do it in this. three and a half hours. Now we'd never run a mile, that's where we'd run 10 miles, around a half mile to maybe, but nothing to that length and that distance. Okay, so then came home for the holiday and tried to rub a football pitch. i was like oh my god like a space of a year because i used to cycle to all my jobs i was i said i race bikes i did i did run but it just
And so that was the start of my journey. I went down and I think I was like 3.20. won 322 for my first marathon you did that in that dublin in dublin that year and i came home and was like there you go you can take that woman 321 is great because actually 2001 was my first marathon as well there you go and i was playing football i never ran and the longest run we were up in the in the portmark legend one night and a few beers and one of the
bet another bloke that I could do it. And I was like, hang on, you're having a bet on me. I'm like, go on, Nalo, you do it. So I was like, right, the longest run I did, I ran up and down Chesterfield Avenue one day because I was living in town and I did 14K was the longest I did. And I went through half at 1.45. And I finished at 4.23 or something. I remember getting the 20 miles just thinking, if I get an ambulance, like I...
It was a bit the same. I think because I'd run, the longest train run I'd done up to that point, even like three, four weeks out, was like 13 miles. I remember thinking, if I can run the 13 miles, I can actually walk the next 13 miles. But I suppose you get in, it's just, you know, at that time, as you just said, and if you remember, there's only two and a half thousand people. Yeah, and do you know what my standout memory is? That was October 2001, so it was just after 9-11.
And there was loads of Americans doing it. There was loads of blokes. Like, there was loads of people with stars and stripes and all the bangles. I met loads of Americans.
that day. There's probably more Americans than ours at that time. There probably was. I was actually working in marathon sports in town selling shoes. I was in college. It was a part-time job. There was a lot of Americans coming in. I was selling Asics like Asics Kayana was the only shoes anyone wanted. Well, yeah. Asics Kayana. There's a flashback. Yeah. Kenzie's weren't even a thing at that stage. Keanu, and that's what's your ultimate shoe. That's our new ballad.
everybody's wearing Asics are new balance nobody's wearing Nike's running nobody's wearing Adidas and even Pegasus were your training shoe yeah exactly that was it but they weren't known for a Martin shoe everybody's hardcore was that But I remember that year, my standard memory of that year, I remember running down by Kilmainham jail and a taxi man screaming.
because the roads were blocked. But none of the roads were blocked at that stage. Yeah, yeah. Those were so little numbers of like two and a half thousand, three thousand people. and like they were driving down the road towards screaming at us that's right you're running we started on the keys didn't we we did yeah and then we went off down by smithfield and then down yeah and ran all the way down to the point well what was the point and then back up
It seems so long ago now. So I started then, and then I suppose I just got kind of hooked up. I still dabbled, after that then I kind of dabbled in track. because there was very little marathons at that stage as you'd remember there was dublin cork and that was it there was nothing on throughout the year so you'd find yourself jumping to do a triathlon or two throughout the summer you do belfast in may Then you do your triathlon throughout the summer. Maybe the Frank Duffy was on.
So just to interject, so was that it? Your one's called your fat boss on holidays. You come home and you run a 320, and that was your hook then, are you? Well, yeah, it was always just coming back into sport. It would take me away, buying the house, going self-employed.
and just everything had taken me away for six to eight months away because up to the stage I was still racing bikes I was still okay and then it just kind of stopped because I started driving and it sounded like you know I took I kind of got greedy I suppose with work it was that era where you know there was enough money to be made i was a building contractor uh i went in at the deep end at a very young age but people were throwing money at you and we were building restaurants
It's too easy. And you kind of go, do you know what? I bought my first house at 22. You're thinking, why not? Jump in here, keep on going. I always loved sport. I went to college, I done sport. That's what I studied. So yeah, I came back in the first marathon. I knew there was much more. So for year two, I'd done a marathon or two, a year, a little bit of triathlon. It was always getting quicker. And I think for the first, after the first 320, then I was not going to...
3 or 2. 3 or 1. 3 hours, 26 seconds. Remember, 3 hours, 2. and everybody was saying to me oh you're sub three you're sub three like the course was 26.4 right and then my head was going you know i'm not sub three you race the course you don't race the 22.4 The 26.2. You actually race. You do race the course. So off I went. And eventually I think I got to my 10th marathon. How many years is that? That was probably within probably three years.
right well said there wasn't and then i kind of i got hooked more and more like you're kind of going okay once you enforce them three it's easy it's a mindset yeah and i don't mean that kind of an article kind of way to people but even people i train now as runners
I say whether it's three, like if they're 340, if you look at the 320, it's a mindset. When you get the 310, it's a mindset. And when you get below three, and 250, and 245, now I've been looking over, I've only gone a handful of times under, I've gone 230. and that's I've done that once or twice and that's my PB. But that's, it is a mindset again, it's just believing, the body just believes it better when you can do it.
And I got addicted, I started racing more. But then I got married then, I had kids, and my second child... was very sick when he was born. It has a thing called conjunctive conjunct of conjunct of always can't even say the word properly this morning um and that means he was born with a toilet glance okay and he was a very sickly child and he was in then he ended up being for several months he was in intensive care from two days old and we're looking around this is probably
2010. And we were looking around going, my God, the facilities in intensive care are terrible. I was doing the night shift. My wife would come in during the day. And she did a day shift and I did a night shift with him. And it was just, there was nowhere for the adults to sleep. They were in their little room because he's in intensive care. Just me and the baby. And there's no beds any longer. I've never said to one of the nurses, have you no fault?
And she said, we did, but we can't replace them. There's no funds available. Wow. And I was shocked at this. In 2010. In the end of the recession, the bubble was gone. There's no beds. Anyway, I said, what would it take? How much do you need to get folded beds for each of you? I said, well, $20,000 do it. And she went, yeah. I said, okay, I'm going to fundraise for $20,000. And so then I was going to do $20,000.
I think it cost me, to raise that 20,000, it cost me 20,000 personally, it was stupid at the time when I think about it. But because there was no marathons in Ireland, I found myself, I went off to, I had a great time, I went to London, I went... We've done Chicago, Amsterdam, Edinburgh. There was no marathons. There was really no marathons in the country at the time, except for your three main ones.
and there was a thing called the west of orleans group i came along and these guys put on like like 12 people in like out in galway bay yeah you know doing a marathon once a month these were loopers these were the people who were used to run would say dave brady's very famous name yeah and dave was like the messiah
Dave there's ran like 50 marathons and we've done 700 something since right but that stage like you know and we're running around Galway Bay and we're going okay just there is people that actually do want to run these So this is the west of Ireland. This is the west of Ireland. I think I know where this is leading. This is where the east of Ireland came. This is where east of Ireland. So west of Ireland. In between this 20 miles and six months of the sort of two ultras. And one was the 100k.
Why don't you ever run a marathon and I ran this 100k and I won. my god this is this i'm actually better at ultras than i am at marathon so for going from sliding under sub 3 at that stage i found myself i was running like under eight hours for 100k wow moving yeah yeah maybe because i was racing every once a month or just i found that it was in i was in an area where i could go you know it was very company running three hours and then and that was the last championships that year felt great
And you meet this different breed of people that actually do want to run each month or every week if there was a marathon on. And I got to know one of the other guys, and he was from Dublin. But he didn't drive, and I used to give him a lift to the west. once every six weeks or so and we just got talking um He said, John, but it'd be great if we could do this in Dublin. Or somewhere on the East Cowboys. So we set up East World.
which turned out these two were racers and from that stage then we put horses on in a hout, a little lusk, we had done a bait, we had one there on Offaly, we had someone killed And we just went once a month. And suddenly we found we had on our Facebook group we've gone from, you know, these 10 guys who are always turning up to suddenly those 5,000.
and people were just people were interested we put marathons which we restricted to 100 at the max 150 people yeah and then we had maybe the same for half Yeah, I remember. And we used to have the book online, because I've done it. Yeah, there's a book online, and you jumped in. And we kept it, the very maximum we ever put was 300 on. And that was in Lush, usually, up to a Dumb City margin. Actually, I remember one time, there was a problem, there was people.
It used to be free, wasn't it? And then you had to pay, it was 20 euros. It was 20 euros. Because people weren't turning up. I remember, I was used to going mad. Yeah, look, we got to the stage where, because we always, we had insurance, we had, everything we had was official, so we had insurance. Yeah. We had course management, course. So we have that exorbitant measure, of course.
representing medals representing trophies representing you know we're doing it all above the book and then people are going okay book online and this year was 15 quid then it's 20 quid
yeah i remember that because i remember there was there was i was trying for an ultra and i wanted to do a few yeah i think i messaged somebody and they were like look it's full but you keep an eye on it because they think you know and then and then i would see using putting up message going oh look we're gonna have to start charging because people are booking and they're not turning up
And I didn't mind at the time, like I said, because I was lucky enough in business that I could afford to sponsor races. And I didn't mind buying 500 bottles of water. Yeah. 100 cans of Coke and 100 miles. and then we said okay let's make and then we went with 120 quid per race and we did at that stage we were after there was anything left at the end we donated charity and most of that went to temple street
And it's still there. If you look on Tempestreet Twitter, you'll find Jerry Copeland giving checks over. Or Tempestreet coming out and presenting checks at races. And it just went from there. And then we went, I think, probably three or four years later, we decided, let's put on...
I didn't do it but I remember saying that. And that was, that went down so well and we don't, we used to have courses on Holt which were just, it was like four loops they had which were And that went so well the following year we put on 10 Martins on 5 days, which were all in hope.
There was one in the morning, one in the afternoon. And you used to have to go out at 6 in the morning. And you had to be back in by 12. And the race director, who was Frank and Gary at the time, they decided if you weren't fit enough, if you came in after 12, you weren't.
So you missed out on the 10 maritons and five days. It was a world record because it's never been done before. And that's where we're aiming to get the world record in time. So it could have been easier courses than hope. But lucky enough. I did win it. Did you? I did, yeah. And I kept them all below 3.30. So 10 marathons in five days, all below 3.30, running around Hout. So four times around Hout. Hout is 150 metres elevation. No, it's overall...
Two and a half thousand feet. Two and a half thousand feet in the in the marathon. I was savage that week. But we had people came from Italy, people from Australia. Really? We had around 50 international runners with us. I was over there one morning.
when you were doing it I went over to watch I brought my two boys over yeah I remember he was flying around oh it was Cannes TV it was funny to look at the start of the week so we had 10 marathons in 5 days and we had 5 marathons in 5 days and we had 5 marathons in 5 days
so look in the morning you have like three or four hundred runners starting off in the house the neighbours you thought what's going on here Ger like they were looking like six o'clock in the morning people outside the Abbey Tavern and then they'd all finish at twelve they'd all go in for pasta and then whoever's going the afternoon Wow. So it was crazy times. And from that then...
and going, I set up Dublin Bay Running Club. So that came out of that then? That came out of the OI, so I started in 2012.
and then i think a year later i set up dublin bay rental okay yeah so i moved home to ireland in 2013 yeah and i started doing eoy marathons then yes i've done i've done a few i think i did three or four times i think and i did hope once and we did one we started on the alfibyrne road we did we did hope twice and then back that's it yeah so we did a couple of course couple variations
it's great and there was one down in Longwood or yeah Longwood was another one of our courses and now it's I know it's past Longwood three quarter that usually comes this time of year before 20 mile yeah the 20 mile that but that was our course initially as well and that was great like it and it was a fun times but then it just
It's always a death. And is the east of Ireland still going or is it done? The east of Ireland died around a year ago. During COVID. COVID killed it. And everybody kind of lost interest. And then last year, I set up east COVID. which is more just the same team again more some of the different courses and it wants to kick off this year
And unfortunately life has thrown me in a different direction. Yeah. And yeah, that's gone by the wayside for the moment. But that brings us to there. So hang on, how many Martins have you done, do you know? I've done 300, over 300. How many of them are so three? Probably 90%. 90% of the 300 are sub-3 markets. 80% to me. Majority were probably 80% over sub-3. Wow. I've won 70. You've won 70 markets. I can easily say 50 or EOI.
five are probably East Antrim who had a sort of league like ourselves and between and then another five would have been the west of Ireland league and then others were like the Partomna 100k's the national 12-hour championship And still, what a race like that. We had a 50 mile, not a 50k in Donatee, where I went under six hours. That was my first A qualifying. but yeah races like that so yeah i've done plenty of other like yeah Titanic 50k is all we're all mobile everything
24-hour races, you name it. I just love racing. Do you have a distance that you like or is it just anything and everything? I always like the marathon on because there's always a plan B, C, D and even E with anything beyond the marathon. You know, you can be doing it there. in a 50K, 50 mile, 50 hundred, and there's always a little bit extra. You can stop, not stop, but focus, slow yourself down and do a couple of eight minute miles.
I can refocus here, I can refuel and go again. You can't do that in a 10K. Even in a half marathon is very difficult. C. You may have a plan B, but it's the same with marathons. People always say I always have a C and D in a marathon. It's not. It's a B. You're very, very lucky if you get a plan C.
In a marathon. Yeah, because if it goes wrong at B, then it's going to go wrong for C. And absolutely, especially when you're up on, I don't, everybody who does the marathon does the same distance and I get it a little, but most people I would train would be looking to go. And when you're going that fast, when it goes wrong, it's huge because of news.
and nutrition when nutrition goes wrong and you're going to go so treat you're not going to get enough time to get it back exactly because it's gone you're empty yeah um so yeah i've been there yeah look i've been there for so many and i find myself 24 12 hour races and 100 mile races
you know i've been leading flowing ahead and i've lost in the last 10 miles yeah because of nutrition because we're so stuotard you know i don't need no 60 miles in i feel great and you don't take that meal yeah and just so as i said yeah very very lucky as a runner um i've got a green jersey twice green jersey being the irish national yeah yeah i've had the i said 100k championship i've got an eight qualifying time i said 50 miles in under six hours
so there's an awful lot of things that happened like as the 12-hour national championship in belfast there's a couple things i have been extremely proud of i've been very lucky enough that you know i've been throwing my hand to iron man the last couple of years um with very little training and i've come in
You've done a couple of Ironman, have you? Yeah, look, the last two years now we did... Copenhagen? Copenhagen. A friend of ours died of a brain hemorrhage trauma a couple of years ago, and in her memory we decided two years ago to jump in.
year we live in more um but i never dedicated myself to it i could always cycle because i was always on swift or whatever in the mornings or um i can always soak on a swim wasn't with the hard part but it was always probably eager enough to think or stupid enough to think i'll always get through i always have i've always gone but just before we uh deviate away from that a second
You don't seem to do a huge amount of mileage in training, do you? Never did. What sort of mileage are you doing? Do you know what? We're getting to what's happened now since. But now I've done my most mileage these weeks. Maybe 55 miles. Most of you. And that's these days in the last six months, sorry, the last four months. And back when you were banging out the sub-trium irons? No, I found, because I raced every, the years I'd go, like last year I would have raced maybe 60 races.
so you were mainly just so and then like you know those years were always banging like over to maybe 20 miles and maybe the EOI or East Antrim were different. I was probably winning maybe 10 of those. But they were always in the releases of 250.
to three hours. There were never... But the training mileage was like 40, 50 miles a week. I have to have 30 miles a week. Like, you know, because you'd race. You know, say you'd race on a Saturday. Like, the next week, you're kind of in recovery. You'll get 30 miles. And then you're going, well, actually, I'm actually racing the following week, so...
you're doing small and I was lucky enough I live in Haute so we ran an awful lot of trails I'm a big believer in trails running when I get fast on the road go on the trails go on the beach um there's no better because it just saps the legs so you get 30 miles on trails it was probably worth maybe 15 miles on the road and that was it and that's we never so when you're raised it's just maintaining it really is
It's hard to maintain because it can go off form very quickly. True, yeah. But I suppose the level I was at, I was a good 250 runner week in, week out. Like I said, just keep it sharp and go again. I used to have people saying to me, So if you concentrate on one marathon a year, you know, you will get down to it. 225. It takes the joy of it, doesn't it? It does. I was always terrified of putting all the eggs in my body.
you know i did like going out more than smaller races whether that was going down to dingle and come and force their second or tour, you know, go down to Monaghan, these smaller races, but you might only get, you're not getting the 8,000 people, you might get a thousand people racing again.
a bit of crack and a bit of crack and I come home and I go do you know what I won one and I came second I came second and thinking like breaking my neck six years ago and you know that that was more of an accomplishment there than going train for nine months don't live and you get
225 but i couldn't do it i was like i was a building contractor i was always on my feet and i just felt it took too much away from life i wanted to live i loved i'm very much a hands-on dad i love kayaking i love mountain biking with my kids I love just being hiking with kids and you can't do that. You can't dedicate. True, yeah. To be 225, you have to have a balance and you can't...
I wasn't willing to give that. So then, so that brings us to where we are now. So tell us what happens at the start of this year. Where we are now, my life has gone a full 360 nail. It's just... Where we are now, back at the end of February I was way skiing with my wife and my eldest son Fionn.
and we went to Morrissey which we do every year which my son has every year with his mum and his other brothers and this year i went back myself my my now wife we went back with our eldest son and i was involved in skiing Funny, I've seen this Jerry John just bits and pieces of it. Nine o'clock in the morning, we're on the fourth slope and we see this big French guy, he's 19 years of age.
and we see him come down this floor so come down a blue slope and he's all over the place and his friends are waiting for him because we're standing close to his friends and he comes down and he has no control and he bashes in he's looking 10 pin bowling he knocks over all his friends as he comes down and you can even hear a friend You're a freaking idiot. You're at this, you're at that. And he's all apologies. And I turned to Jenny, my wife.
he's gonna kill someone this morning look at the size of that dude he's he's like a big rugby player like a big scrum big guy but he had no control and i always look out because a man you know how to jacket on big bubble black man you know The one thing I don't like is, man, you know. He was in his bubble jacket. Big boy. You couldn't miss him. Long and behold, 10-15 minutes later, myself and Jenny are going down this other slope.
that's because it's quarter past nine in the morning there's no one around it's quiet enough you can get away with the slopes and we're on a big wide slope it's maybe 40 foot wide jenny's at the top i'm in the middle my phone's on his way down to do a red run lo and behold coming around the corner is this big french guy now it's 40 foot wide i'm on my own i've stopped waiting for jenny and he comes around but it's like someone taking a penalty against the goalkeeper the goal just gets small
and everything shrinks and it must be the same for him because he just came straight for me and I moved slightly to the left, slightly to the right, didn't I? I was his save. He was going slow down by hitting me and he hit me and he knocked me over. I went down on my side, slight knock to my head, not much I had the helmet on, I could jump back up. He'd lost his skis, he was doing a couple of cartwheels down, he lost his skis and he'd lost...
polls and I've actually picked them up. Okay. And I went back down and I said, are you okay? And he was very apologetic. Young guy. Yeah. So sorry. So sorry. Didn't mean it. I said, no, you didn't mean it. I said, you need to learn to control. I said, you're going way.
And I wasn't being the professional skier. I was just giving a little bit of voice. I said, just be careful to yourself. Yeah. Because I can tell you heard himself, but he was probably too proud to say. He was jumping open. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was apologetic, and off he went. That noise.
Myself and Jenny and Fiona and we had friends over with us from America and we went down and said I have a sore neck. Now we brought my neck six years down the top. Maybe it's just a little bit of a strain but I had a bit of a thumping headache. All night long took a norepinephrine. I don't usually take meds.
um and i took a north end and i kind of calmed it down next couple of days it was coming and going yeah but now being a man you think that's it's nothing it's it's i'll get over it slight concussion slight neck injury no nauseous or vomiting no nothing no and we came home that was the tourist we came home a couple of days later we had a race in Lusk it was a four mile race in Lusk which is usually the start of the season for me it's the start of
And LOSC is a club that I would be very fond of and they've always supported us with ELY and DVRC and we've always supported them. They're a good crew. and i went down i raced the four mile and i think i went 22 minutes but i felt really off i had a pumping headache my vision was blurred and
I felt like for 22 minutes, I felt like we should have run it in 20 minutes. I felt like I put too much effort in to feel as bad. Running that fast, you know when you're running fast because you do feel bad. And you go, okay, we'll get old. or you finish, but it didn't, it was 22 minutes. in the right here. When I finish the race, 10 minutes later I'm over.
a strange feeling. Taught nothing more of it. Next day went to work, nothing more. And that evening I was giving a kettlebells class and I was driving to the kettlebells class. I literally turned my head to turn a corner. My friend Dee was with me in the car because she gives the kettlebells class with me. I was going, this is not good. This, I just knew instantly, I said, I felt really dizzy. We pulled into the petrol station. I said, Dee, I need to get some chocolate.
I'm having a low or something here. I don't know what's going on. And off we went in and got our, came back. And they were talking to me at the station, but I couldn't make it. I kind of knew and they were laughing. It wasn't making sense. It wasn't making any sense. And Sonya got the shooting pain now.
behind my left eye i was just this crushing pain i was like my head was in a voice and i said d i said you need would you stop here it's probably a trapped nerve or something i said no i said ring jenny I chose no with the other swift scares and no, go to Bowman. I was actually, it was in the Porsche Jeep, and she was like, I'm terrible, I'm not driving that car, I've got my glasses on, I'll crash. And I said, I can't drive now. Just get me there. And I tried to take a sip of the Diet Coke.
that was the i went i can't swallow it down i tried to spot on my saliva and i couldn't and my breathing was getting was my friend breathing down was getting heavy wow And I really did start to panic then. I was like, this is... Can you remember this now? I can remember this now. And always mentally was always there. So we got on the ball mount and they looked straight up, they're looking, what's your name? I was like, you need...
and gave all the details. They brought me into trials, and straight away they looked at me and went, okay, we need to get him into resource. And brought me down for an MRI.
The top of my head, you can see there was shadows that shows us that there was now a blood clot. Okay. But it didn't know where it was coming from. Right. Because it seems like Sarah Bellum on the top of your head. I don't know if there's been things on my social media where you can see a picture of my skull and you can see where it's black, where the blood didn't flow.
So that's where my head and my cerebellum is dead now. And... That's part of the cerebellum. That's... And cerebellum controls everything.
so but it wasn't it was the car is actually going up that took the impact and they did so they've done another mri in the concealer there was more blood there was where's this coming from straight down for a cal scan and you can see there had been a dissection yeah it's it's it's funny now they can say to you like this happened three or four days ago the first
and i could take this all then i was gonna how can you tell us the different shades of gray the blood shades in different ways and they're like in your head we can tell this one was seven days ago so we've had three hemorrhages now in the last week You have a full door section now. How long after the skiing? This is probably six, seven days.
So when your man hit you on the ski slope, he dissected your caravan archery. He bent it over. Look at a straw. Bent it over. And when he bent it over, you see, there's so little known about this. The only research known through U.S.
and UFC is putting the money into the research and basically we're saying for years that people were being these young lads choking each other out and they didn't know why why are they paralysed and they're going I don't know what's wrong with them but they couldn't tell because they couldn't see muscles they couldn't see ligaments that were broken
the lack of blood going in yeah if this hadn't happened 10 years ago it slides out and for like 12 hours later so actually when they did see me then they brought me up to it was brought straight away and then to the the critical order Everything started. Within 12 hours then, my body got limp. I lost my vision, so I could just see blurry.
Jeez, it must have been terrifying. I couldn't breathe. I had my ventilation. I was on suction. My vision, my hearing was gone. I was like, your speech is going to go. I can't swallow. And they were like 12 hours later. It's game over. Jesus. And the consultant, the senior consultant, Professor Boyle, came around the next morning on a genuine day.
I remember just, I could hear him, even though we're hearing, you can still hear the conversation. It's just not crystal clear any longer. It's getting worse. And he was like, he's had severe brain trauma. This is life altering. and like you can't swallow when you guys really swallow say everything was will you hear it again we can't say we don't know it's important the word used to be impossible impossible
And the best they could say is he's going to be here for three or four months minimum. And that's when we're going to get him into Dun Laoghaire Rehab. Rehabilitation. And he will be there then for six months. Six months is the minimum they will give him to begin with. But that's where he's going.
and i was like so this is best case scenario you're lying in the hospital bed and they're saying six months in a in a neurological rehabilitation yeah i remember saying to me like can you look at my hands like my only hand because my now well once my body was now completely clumsy
But in my head, I talked, because I walked in from the Caribbean Park in Bournemouth, I walked in, man, that's the port. But I walked in, in my head, I can still, I'm still a runner, I'm still, put your finger on your nose. and they're like, can you see?
And I remember they were clicking in my ear. And I thought it would be smart. And they were like, can you hear that? Can you hear that? And I was like, yeah. And I thought it was maybe two foot away. That ready start. But they were actually clicking into my ear. and i just remember saying we need to get a nose feed into him now and then we'll have to and then organize for a permanent feed to his stomach he won't
And then, because you can hear all this, and in your mind you're still, because you're in the stroke ward, and you're looking around, and it's just full of old people. And people are all thinking, you know, anything that's a brain bleed. It's like saying, I bought a new car and someone goes, I bought a car. Exactly. There's a million different cars. And when people hear stroke, you always think, oh, it's that guy that's in the 60s, 70s or 80s. Smoke or drink or just unfold.
It's not like anything that's brain bleed. So I couldn't say the word stroke for a long time. It actually embarrassed me because I was like, I'm super fit. How can I have a stroke? But it wasn't. It was just that brain bleed.
From the trauma, if I had been, if I went in a week earlier, if you went in the hospital with a headache, pain in my neck, no one's going to give you a scan. They're just going to go home and take it from an orphan. If I had went in six hours earlier, they could have got a stent in before they did it.
Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. But the fact was, I went in at nine o'clock at night. There's no consultants on. And they're ringing John Call, emergency consultant, and they're just going, just keep him in a stable position.
so you walk into the hospital at like say nine o'clock at night you walk in and then how long does it take then before you can't you can't move your hand you can't I just knew everything was... i was just just life has been soaked out of you and it doesn't sound dramatic look at jenny was there and it's not there was it's the memories i was sick of boys and the only thing that kept me going when kids were away skiing with their mo-
so i just need to see my kids one more time jenny yeah i just want to see and that she was like okay so we said it's too late to ring lisa and the kids yeah like so she rang lisa next morning they spoke and they said that they weren't going to tell the kids that kids unless it was a case that we had to get home yeah asap let's wait and see and they were
here that you'll never, just the simple things like when you walk in, just remember that word impossible. And I actually have a t-shirt that I run on occasion. I got it for the DVRC top and it just says, fuck brain. And it says, you know, and it says, impossible or only. And I'm possible because the recovery...
So just give us a rundle. So you leave, you end up in the rehabilitation hospital. No, no, I didn't even make the rehabilitation. This is where I turned around. So I'm in Beaumont for the first two weeks and I'm literally lying there. I have a nose fade trip and the kids come back.
They sent me on the armchair, the kids walk in, and I make an effort. And that's what I wanted. I just wanted to see my kids again. But I couldn't feel them. Because my body is now... Totally numb. No, I can use my left side, but it's clumsy. My right side... you know and they're like see my kids and we all just felt it was devastated because he knows that this from he was schemeless and he knows this will happen he's got he can put two or two together
your drill and i can't like my vision i can make them out but i can't i haven't got crystal vision and everything's and that was probably for the first two weeks i had the physios embalming and the occupational terrorists But the video, there was one video, Sonia, and she was, she had been an Olympic Taekwondo Judo representative of her and she was just amazing.
And she used to say to me, you know, you're going to get you in Dunleary, but you're going to walk into Dunleary. No, you couldn't walk. I was going down in a wheelchair. Like, I was like, back, I suppose, low in a wheelchair, going down. I was failing swallow test after swallow. And they were like, okay, you're booked in to get your permanent fee. It's always time. And I was like, in my way, man, from like 10 stone, 10.
down for like seven half stone really yeah yeah i probably was only taking 250 calories a day wow because i was taking the nose feed i was getting sick and i refused to take and i just there's no and i used it and you say to me have your head I'm taking milkshakes from my nose. I'm taking 250 calories a day. Wow. You know, there's no, I was just, I was so humiliated. They're fantastic. Nurses were amazing. There'd be nurses that would carry into the,
and in your wheelchair in to shower with you. Yeah. And just all your dignity is kind of gone. You lose all your agency is all gone. Absolutely. And it's just like, this is my life now. i was wondering maybe it was 22 minutes or maybe i was skiing last week down red slopes and my life was like i've had a wonderful life like i've never i always thought like you know we don't tomorrow i'm okay with it in many ways of having fantastic people in my life.
You know, it was just like, but it wasn't ready. It was kind of like, this is not how it goes. So the physio started harder and harder. And I remember I said, if you can, if you get your stomach feeding, your permanent feeding your stomach, you can feed. And if you can get in the Zimmer frame. And it doesn't mean they will force you to unleary. They'll give you home rehab. Yeah. To look after yourself. Okay. Early discharge. And the physios and occupational therapists. And the nutritionists.
So around four weeks, five weeks in, five weeks in, I got my permanent failure in my stomach. And I was happy that was going in. I was going, that's great. But also I was devastated. I haven't had a failure in my milkshake for the rest of my life. And as it turned out, then, my buddy... Flipping kidding me. I got a load home for a couple of hours on the Saturday. And I go home, I don't have a cap of jam. I can't in the car, I'm getting sick in the car. I'm all over the place.
And I go, in my wheelchair, in my Zimow frames, in the car. You know, we get home and... I started bleeding out. My stomach started bleeding out. I was like, I don't believe this. So we were back in and the doctor on call that night and on the ward was freaking out.
severe pain and she was like what's the level I was like it's 10 out of 10 like all my body is constantly in pain but this is worse now and she's like you know you're an athlete you're an endurance athlete your levels will be so much higher But this on a Saturday night, there's no Castro consulting the same...
Monday evening at the 80s because gastros are just they're out the door they have all the weekend people that are in and Monday morning this speech and language came around and they deal with your swallow and they said And I've been doing rehab, you know, biting your tongue, just all these exercises that make you go through. You know, biting my tongue, my vocal cords were coming.
passed it so there's there's eight levels and I jumped and usually they were saying you had to usually go to level one puree food they can have moist fields and i jump from nothing to moist fields i was actually eight minutes That's the most amazing meal ever. Cheers, I bet, yeah. And once I started getting food back in, things started lifting. I hate to be honest, I was at the loo for the first time and passed something for the first time in five weeks.
wasn't diarrhea yeah you know and i got stronger and sonja and the other physio teams and they were amazing they'd like they were like okay and next thing like within a week like you know i'm on the bars walking the bars i'm holding on um and it just progressed from that and within the six and a half weeks then
I was always in my frame. So the six and a half weeks is all in Bonmont Hospital? All in Bonmont Hospital. You never make it. It was actually Sonia that said to me, I will put you, because they have their consulting team every Thursday, and she said, I will put you for early release if you can go.
Now there's videos, there's a thing called Work It Out and that's my, it's about my recovery and it's on Instagram. And you'll see me like, you know, there's some days when I'm trying to walk and I'm like. I'm so awkward. I can't walk. I'm trying to bounce a ball or I'm trying to do things. It's just my story of some of the things that happened. because I still see on that like you still put videos I'll kind of jump forward a bit but I rock up to the
So I saw you put up on the chair, Copeland Instagram, the picture of you in the hospital that we all saw. Yeah, yeah. It was the thing saying, I rocked up to lust. Typical bloke I had a headache probably should have thought I would just run it off right so I read this and then explain what happened to you this is probably you're probably a week or two in hospital
No, that was the day I left. I posted it. I didn't tell anybody I was in hospital. Okay, so it was whatever. Tom's friends. That was six and a half weeks. That was the day I was coming home. I was coming home with Zimmerman. So that's when I saw that. And I'm like, fucking hell. I couldn't believe it. Everybody's shocked. I sent you a few messages. But... So I see that, but then I rock up at the 10 mile in the park. So I'm at the 10 mile. And I ran that that day in, I think I was...
69 minutes was I? And you passed me within the first kilometre. And I'm like, is that? Jerry Copeland. But it looked like you were, there was a bloke which it looked like you were touching your forearms. Yeah, so I run with it with a band. So when I run now, I go blind again. All I can see. okay I can't see and I've no balance so even now I can drive fine and once it's slow Like I can run all day. I never, because it's not.
so walking is difficult now because of the balance when i live here now i'll go to dcu yeah i'll spend an hour with the dcu high performance team and they put me in what's called
Yeah, so that's what I'm asking. So I do see you still on Instagram, so that's why, yeah? And they put all your gait, all your soys in it, and that teaches me about it. So the white gait, because I'm not bonnet, so I have to keep my legs spread wet apart. So at the moment... what i'm left with at the moment is the whole root of my body i'm numb okay i have no feeling yeah and on my left side my left leg is clumsy okay and i think i'll hone or syndrome
That's a small pupil. Yeah. And you can see my face. So the top of my head is I have constant sunburn around my mouth. And it's on my left hand side. And around my mouth is a frostbite. On the left side. On my left side. And it's right on my body.
and it's just how the blood flows when it hits the cerebellum so your cerebellum because the blood doesn't stop flowing to the cerebellum yeah so one long so and the best way you just describe it he was going your blue flow if he asked you to get the bone hospital to get the towel That's why I live here and I go down to you. I'm out to the M50 and I go, okay, that's not going to work anymore. Now we need you to go.
inchy core, and they go, okay. That's where everything's gonna flow now. That's how you learn how to re-walk. That's how you learn how to re, like the brain is amazing. And it just figures it out. Exactly. Nature wills to survive. Lay down new neurological pathways. Absolutely. And you said you're young.
I'm not young. No, you're so young. You will be fine. But at the moment, I can run fine. If you ask me to race, I can race at six and a half minute miles. Because that's what I have to get my heart rate below 150. That's why, isn't it? That's why. So it can go faster. Because there's no buttons. There's no buttons involved in running. See, okay, let me just clear it up for anybody here that he can run at 630 per mile, but that's...
The limiting factor is he has to keep his heart rate down. It's not as if his legs won't take him. Oh, no, look, so we were on the national tank, we were there that day, and we went off and had done 64 minutes. What did you do that in? 64 minutes. 64. That's my PB for the bleeding 10. I remember thinking, look, okay, last year we went 58. i can give so much better oh yeah yeah watch this one and i go i felt so much stronger the easiest race my life was going breathing's fine everything's fine
But then I had to be done there. Because you look, obviously you passed me. You look, you look all right running. Yeah, people think, so people see me now, they go, oh, you made a full recovery. Yeah, that's what, when I saw you running, I thought. geez, he's made a massive recovery. Yeah. But then, yeah. It's all in town. Right. I suppose you always hear people who have mental illness go, you don't see the inside. Yeah. And the inside is, so, on my right-hand side,
But my organs only work 20%. So I have lung capacity, my pancreas, my lower intestine when it hits the right hand side slows down completely. Everything on that side. i can't tell no more sharp i can't have no feeling
And will that get any better? They can't say. And what were eight months after the accident? Over six, six and a half months. Six and a half months. So seven months next week. And do you find it, do you notice it getting a little bit better? No, this part of my body may never get better. Yeah. The consultants say that.
But I mean, your overall function. Oh, my function, oh yeah, I'm great. But it's progressing, isn't it? Oh, absolutely. Look, I go running every morning. Yeah. I go running, I go and... I can't... I try to cycle and I fall over because I've not...
So I'm straight on the beach, I will cycle all day. Ask me to turn, I bring my middle son because he's a mountain biker. And he just breaks his arse laughing at me. This is the funniest thing. Dad's going great. Then suddenly, I'll lose feeling. Because I have no feeling, it just goes completely hollow. So when I run, I have to believe that I'm going right. Yeah. You just have to trust that it's going to move forward.
No, I can't feel it, but I have to believe it's there. And that's exactly what you're saying about doing the rehabilitation, is learning that. You can't learn to run again the way you used to run. You have to learn a new way to run. Absolutely. Everything is new. When I run, I go blind. That's how you say, you see me with the guys. And they'll lead me up for the first mile or two, and then I lose the crowd.
but look like a plane going around corners my arms are out for balance there's no balance things like that have completely changed um but yeah in many ways like you know we went from being on it leaving on a zimmer frame to being on sticks that pole seemed to awkward to another and then my outpatient physiosera it was amazing
brought me running then within two weeks. Yeah, I saw you were putting Instagrams up over you. And when I won then I was back racing. Look, we went back out to LSA and Donna Bate, they had their 4 and 1. i was like jesus i can run so every day i run now i run the beach because i'm on my own obviously everybody else yeah
So you can run on your own, can you? When you do those beach runs. I fall over. Down in the sand. I'm okay. And do you fall over? I do occasionally. Or else a dog jumps me in. I fall over. I get up and I'm rolling on the ground. And you see people looking at me with a dog. I don't know.
it's brain trauma don't worry about it and you can take your dog away from me and they're all apologetic yeah but if we go on the road so tomorrow morning i'll go for 20 mile run when we run club yeah but it'll be fine because you'll be with i'll be the crown somebody's on my left and they're like i can't turn to look across the roads they look at here yeah because we look we turn my head quickly off
but you'll probably find that those those uh sensory inputs to hearing cars will get a lot more acute absolutely you're relying on them more so they become heightened yeah absolutely the sense of smell look so my sense of taste is like you know my taste buds have come back on both sides
And that was like, oh my god, I can taste it again. But I can't tell if it's hot or cold on one side. It's very frustrating because you wake up in the middle and you're covered in blood, your lips, because you bite your lips and you bite your tongue. and you know i'm in constant pain like because yeah like so my right side of my body
And there's only because all my nervous sectors are fried now. Yeah, yeah. They don't. So I can't take painkillers. Because they don't do anything. They don't know where they're going. Yeah. And I'm out of the consultant trying to explain. They go, Jared, the only thing your body can pick up on now is pain. Yeah. The only thing I don't... and that's what like you know it can't give you tickles it can't give you happy the only thing about when the nerves are damaged
And that's it. It just feels like it's in your bones. You can't feel it anywhere else. It's just dead pain. Do you know what? You're getting to live with it now. you get the yeah and that's it so so doing Dublin Marathon yeah yeah good stuff so I'm hoping to go anywhere between 3.15 and 3.30 in Dublin big gold dentists before the 50s so it's about four years Is it? Yeah. That was always the goal. You know what?
I thought there was always going to be something. That was always the goal. Everest was always there. Was it? Okay, so before this. Before this. The plan was always to give up being a building. like last couple of years now i've been studying to become a trauma therapist brilliant which works out really well now you were studying that before it is yeah so wow yeah around two years ago it was sort of like things have changed my life and yeah you know i was like you know i need to
Redirect myself. Yeah. And I've got to do Greenhouse. And Dan said, I was going to mix. And Dan was going to do trauma therapy. Yeah. And I was going to mix to it again. And that's where the name Work It Out came from. And it's trauma therapy. And it's therapy for men. And it's only for men. Right. It's only for middle-aged men that are going through this and that. And that was it. Fantastic. Yeah, that's the plan. So I was always getting out of building. I always wanted to climb.
still the goal are you finished your building now i can't go back i'm not i would go back to yeah you can can you drive i can drive yeah so i'm completely independent um plans to an iron man next year oh yeah i was in for alcatraz this year to our own man. Had to cancel that obviously without the accent. I was in for it for the third until next year and we said, you know what, a friend of mine then, Roy, who we were, is like, let's do our own man. And he done the own man with me.
so yeah either a four or a half next year normally yeah and how will the bike work out i don't know that's what i have to and i can't scream either so we swim well you can't live my head because there's no balance but i need to let swim on them but the same way you said you can run yeah i'll figure it out there probably is a way yeah yeah and there's i'm just thinking like obviously what i'm putting on my
with people who have like balance issues like from cerebellar trauma. You can get those electrodes. Have they spoke about that? Yeah, we talked about it in DC again. The balance clinic in... and is that something you're you're on what made appointments where it gets him in the future yeah basically it's just manipulating the brain again yeah
It's like, so long as you can get that sensory input in there, it doesn't matter which way it goes in, so long as it gets in. At the moment, you can't get it in, but yeah. It's always just, people say, I've never asked why. I've never asked why. spiritual and you know why not like i used to say my eldest son who was there and he's got quite upset Michael Schumacher was a statistic, or he would be a statistic, but also a statistic that gets old.
and i love it as a challenge i love it's stupid because i love a challenge and i love it's always been my life the same as racing the same as you know when i was that 16 16 stone guy i see it i wake up and i'm going i'm going to learn how to walk again i'm going to learn how to run
even eating and everything it's like embracing a whole new way of life and i'm probably the happiest i've ever been that sounds really silly you look great you kind of look and the energy coming off is great and people say but you missed working i go no look i'm very fortunate Or don't have to. Because of other things that I have going on. But I'm going to go, no, I'm a maxi.
I'm actually happy enough. I like getting up in the morning. I like going running. I like getting on my swiftness. I like that I'm around my kids 24-7. And I like that when we said my wife, we go kayaking. We can go off and do things and we're friends and we go kayaking and we have a tandem. So we go cycling and we tandem.
look it's not really there's a lot to be appreciated for yeah and you know you do appreciate life so much more i bet you know you look around and you go do you know what as much as i ever thought i was ready to croak it or die you might have a great life you know there's so much more i want to give And now the consultants have asked me, they'll come back in January and February, I want to give talks. So 10% only live when they get to my level, because they usually choke out.
And the fact that I've lived beyond that, and they're going, yeah, and they're going, you're way better than we ever would have imagined you ever could have been. In such a short period, even three or four years, you were... we are now and i go okay yeah we'll come back and give talks i've gone yes who do you want to give talks and like to some other consulting meetings and to other patients because we're people that just give up
And that's great. It's very powerful to be able to do that. Like to be able to, for you to even mentally to be able to do it, you know, after what you went through, you know, which is fantastic. I don't want to be an Instagram hero. I don't want to be a fake. I'm not talking to people. I'm like, listen, it's okay. We're going to get through this. and that's my match so that's that's the plan carry on brilliant people setting goals and
Go forward. Look, that's fantastic. Look, we'll wrap it up there. Look, it's been amazing talking to you. Thanks for having me, Neil. I've known you for quite a while. And yeah, when I saw that message that time, it was devastating reading it because, you know, you just think...
somebody who's so fit and healthy but it's absolutely brilliant to see you looking at your best thank you and seeing you racing that day was one of the happiest things I've seen when I've been out running but yeah and more power to the future and good luck on the marathon well thank you very much I'll see you then before I wrap it up
People want to follow you, get in touch with you. The best way to follow me, obviously, there's always Jerk Holkin on Facebook or else you'll get me on Work It Out 2024. my story in a post of one or two stories a week just about recovery rehab and just things that little achievements and sometimes they're just little small look it can be having the energy to read a chapter of a book yeah and that's that may seem silly to people but sometimes then we win some we
And some weeks it's just not falling over. Take the wins. You won't always get them but take them when they arrive. Listen, thank you very much for coming in, Ger. And like I said, I'll link all that in the show notes below so anybody who wants to get in touch with you. And that is it. Thank you, Neil.
Okay, so that's it. That is a wrap with the J.R. Colburn interview. I hope you all liked it. Like I said, if you did, and you found this helpful give it a bit of love give it a like give it a comment give it a share You can follow me on Instagram at RunSensiblePodcast or you can follow Jare on his Instagram. I'll link all the stuff below in the show notes. And remember, in the meantime, guys, run far, run fast, but most of all, run sensible.