Welcome to Season One of Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, where we explore the strange and troubling era of the 1980s and ’90s when America—especially the evangelical church—became convinced that satanic ritual abuse and occult activity hid around every corner. From local news reports warning of dark rituals to churches hosting “record burnings” to purge secular music, fear of a hidden, demonic conspiracy dominated the cultural landscape. In this preview of our first episode, "The Devil Went Down To...
Jan 30, 2025•13 min•Season 1Ep. 24
From the creators of the hit podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill comes a new show, Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, which takes you back to the Satanic Panic that gripped America in the 1980s and 90s. This limited series explores how hysteria gripped parents and teens through cautionary tales like Go Ask Alice, influenced notorious criminal cases like the West Memphis Three, and catapulted the political agenda of the Moral Majority. Join as we seek to understand how this wave of panic devastated ...
Dec 17, 2024•2 min•Season 1Ep. 23
More than two years since producer Mike Cosper began recording interviews for the show, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill returns with its most poignant episode yet -- a road trip to Seattle to stand in the spaces where Mars Hill Church began. This epilogue of the critically-acclaimed podcast sends Cosper and executive producer Erik Petrik on a trip down memory lane, visiting the buildings and church members who formed the vibrant community that would one day fall apart. From Seattle living rooms c...
Nov 11, 2022•44 min•Season 1Ep. 22
When author and therapist Dan Allender met Mark Driscoll in 1998, he hoped the two might share building space for their respective ministries. While conversations remained cordial, it didn't take long for Allender to realize he and Mark aimed to build entirely different institutions -- Allender, a school for healing and trauma care, and Mark, a faith community with the aspirations of Babel. Narcissism would keep the two from building on a common foundation. Thirty years later, Allender joins hos...
Aug 26, 2022•50 min•Season 1Ep. 21
The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill tells the stories of myriad hurts committed in the name of Christ and his church. Real pain inflicted on real people has consequences; and, for many in the Mars Hill community, the ripple effects have been long lasting. Individuals' spiritual trauma has born out in subsequent church relationships and even personal spiritual practices like Bible study and prayer. In a culture enamored with therapeutic lingo, it can be hard to determine what true trauma is. Spend any...
Jul 20, 2022•57 min•Season 1Ep. 20
Bonus Episode: A Conversation With Tim Keller Mike Cosper sits down with Tim Keller for reflections on leadership, the troubles with networks, and the essential need for communion with God. Tim Keller moved to New York City in 1989 to plant Redeemer Presbyterian Church. In the three decades since, he’s become one of the most influential voices in American evangelicalism. Several of his books have become bestsellers. City to City, the church planting network he co-founded, has planted more than 8...
Jul 01, 2022•1 hr 5 min•Season 1Ep. 19
Building an institution on celebrity power, charisma, and a spirit of grandiosity attracts a lot of people, money and a certain kind of cache for everyone involved. It helps them all to feel like they're part of something that's big — a movement providing a sense of meaning and purpose. But too often, these movements crumble, and those inside are crushed by the process. It's a pattern that extends far beyond Mars Hill, into the realm of politics, academia, media, and more. In this bonus episode ...
Jun 17, 2022•57 min•Season 1Ep. 18
Mars Hill’s music grew out of the same counter-cultural ethos that defined the rest of its ministry. Most of the church’s founding members thought Christian contemporary music was too saccharine and polished for their tastes, and what evolved at Mars Hill reflected the gritty and dark sounds of the city around them. But like many other facets of the Mars Hill story, there was much behind the music. Often selected for their charisma and talent, Mars Hill bands found that few cared about the condi...
May 06, 2022•44 min•Season 1Ep. 17
As production of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill progressed, another story was developing—inside the walls of Christianity Today. On March 15, 2022, CT released the results of an independent report from Guidepost Solutions, which outlined institutionally tolerated sexual harassment and misconduct along with failures in reporting and monitoring. To the heartbreak of many, some of the unhealthy behaviors that were being explored on this podcast were endemic at CT as well. If the story of Mars Hill ...
Mar 29, 2022•1 hr 3 min•Season 1Ep. 16
Five days after resigning as lead pastor of Mars Hill Church, Mark Driscoll was once again in front of a crowd—this time, a packed conference of pastors who offered him a standing ovation in support. It only took 474 days for him to announce he was planting a new church in Scottsdale, Arizona. But while Driscoll wielded his own force of personality to get as much distance from Mars Hill as possible, life in Seattle was a different story. A confused and hurting church was displaced, hundreds of p...
Dec 04, 2021•3 hr 36 min•Season 1Ep. 15
Mars Hill grew dramatically in 2012, and it seemed like nothing could stop the church’s ever-widening expansion. Pastor Mark Driscoll’s book Real Marriage released that January, hit The New York Times Best Seller list, and launched a book tour and a series of television appearances that brought him into countless new homes and churches. But in the next two years, the church would experience endless controversy, turn over almost all of their staff, and discover that no efforts at PR or spin could...
Nov 12, 2021•3 hr 37 min•Season 1Ep. 14
Contrary to Mars Hill lore, Mark Driscoll didn’t plant his church alone. Though he prized the image of a solo, entrepreneurial pastor, Driscoll found early success thanks to two co-planters, a sending church, and a network of support. And three thousand miles away in Boca Raton, Florida, the concept of the Acts 29 church network was already taking shape as an offshoot of the Spanish River Church Planting Network. Church planting requires a certain audacity, and in the early 1970’s nobody had mor...
Oct 19, 2021•48 min•Season 1Ep. 13
As success grew at Mars Hill, Mark Driscoll’s ministry dreams expanded. With the advent of the multi-site church and advances in technology, a leader could move beyond the mundanity of local place and community to spread his message far afield, fulfilling his own great commission literally to the ends of the earth. With a talented team and generous budget at his fingertips, Mark dreamed big. 50,000 church members. A New York Times bestseller. The most prominent media distribution channel on the ...
Oct 05, 2021•56 min•Season 1Ep. 12
In 2006, Mark Driscoll met with a group of Seattle pastors who were worried about Mars Hill’s public witness. Mark had risen to prominence with pugilistic bravado, and local leaders expressed concern that his tone and language about women and, in this particular instance, pastors’ wives hurt the perception of the church in their largely unchurched city. Despite their best efforts to connect on common ground, the meeting’s leaders counted the event a failure. Remarkable success had isolated Mark ...
Sep 21, 2021•58 min•Season 1Ep. 11
We are people built for wonder, spiritual creatures looking for spiritual footholds in a culture often devoid of belief in the supernatural. We long for miracles -- the defeat of sin and shame, displays of God’s power transforming our deepest pain. For some who attended Mars Hill, the instinct toward astonishment led them to Mark Driscoll’s charismatic deliverance ministry. In a world where belief is so often hard to come by, Mark claimed to have faith strong enough to move mountains and, litera...
Sep 10, 2021•1 hr 5 min•Season 1Ep. 10
There’s a profound power to storytelling. In all kinds of communities, the stories we tell about who we are and where we came from are life-shaping. At Mars Hill, one of the oft-told stories was about Mark Driscoll’s origin and calling. It began with the gift of a bible from his future wife. That was the catalyst to faith, and a walk in the woods a few months later led to an experience of hearing God’s audible voice and calling: “Marry Grace, plant Mars Hill, preach the Bible, and train men.” Th...
Aug 31, 2021•19 min•Season 1Ep. 9
We have 5 episodes left on The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. Listen to a preview of what's to come. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Aug 26, 2021•4 min
A Bonus Episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Love it or hate it, if you grew up in a youth group after 1997, you probably had to reckon with Joshua Harris’s I Kissed Dating Goodbye, his treatise on dating and courtship. The book sold millions and made him, in Collin Hansen’s terms, an “evangelical boy wonder.”At 29 years old he became the lead pastor of a Maryland megachurch and a rising star in Sovereign Grace Ministries. But when that movement was torn apart by controversy, conflict, and ...
Aug 20, 2021•1 hr 6 min•Season 1Ep. 8
Church planting isn’t for the faint of heart. It requires a tenacity few pastors can fully anticipate when they set out. Healthy planting demands not only clarity of mission and relentless work, but practical partnership, wise counsel, and responsive governance to the changing needs that come with growth. From the church’s beginning, Mars Hill leadership committed to all of these -- a vision of Jesus as senior pastor with elders serving with “one vote each.” But somewhere along the line, the vis...
Aug 10, 2021•1 hr 2 min•Season 1Ep. 7
Mark Driscoll rose to prominence in the early days of the Internet. Unlike his megapastor predecessors like Robert Schuller and Bill Hybels, Driscoll harnessed technology to build his brand and bypass cultural gatekeepers who might hinder or influence his success. He formed a talented media team that would expand his reach and, inadvertently, reinforce his ego through an online presence. Quickly though, his star rose too far, keeping him at arm’s length from the collaboration and counsel of thos...
Aug 03, 2021•1 hr 3 min•Season 1Ep. 6
Sex sells. It might be hard to imagine a church harnessing this popular marketing technique for church growth, but that’s exactly what Mark Driscoll did in Seattle in the early 2000s. Whether condemning the Western erosion of manhood or elevating women as Christian pornographic ideals, preaching from the Mars Hill pulpit mixed toxic cultural messages with biblical theology in the name of forming men, women, and families for God. And, like Mark’s campaign against diminished manhood, when sex sold...
Jul 27, 2021•59 min•Season 1Ep. 5
Mark Driscoll’s vision of manhood indelibly shaped Mars Hill culture. Drawing from his own difficult childhood story, Mark created an ideal for those searching for meaning and direction. Men responded enthusiastically. From “dad talks” about issues about sex, career and family to “holy anger” over a feminized church culture, he invited men into a stirring narrative where manning up meant passionately loving God and their families. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosp...
Jul 15, 2021•54 min•Season 1Ep. 4
Church planting, even under the best of circumstances, always requires grit and determination. Planting in one of the most progressive cities in the US at the turn of the millennium required even more. But if Mark Driscoll struggled with anything in his ministry, it wasn’t a lack of will. The earliest days of Mars Hill were a whirlwind of activity – launching new campuses, preaching as many as seven times a Sunday, assimilating new people, and developing new ministries all at once. The church qu...
Jul 07, 2021•53 min•Season 1Ep. 3
In the mid-1950s, Rev. Robert Schuller began preaching in a drive-in movie theater in Southern California. He melded traditions like vestments with a theology of post-war optimism and self-esteem. As his ministry grew, guest preaching in his pulpit became a mark of celebrity achievement. Three decades after his drive-in movie days, Schuller would welcome a young Mark Driscoll to the microphone to speak. To understand the Mars Hill phenomenon, you have to understand how big churches developed in ...
Jun 29, 2021•57 min•Season 1Ep. 2
In 2014, after more than a decade of tremendous growth and ministry, Mars Hill Church imploded with the resignation of its lead pastor, Mark Driscoll. Once a hub for those disenfranchised with cultural Christianity, Mars Hill’s characteristic “punk rock spirit” became its downfall as power, fame and spiritual trauma invaded the ministry. But how did things fall apart? Where did Mark Driscoll take a wrong turn? Who could be held responsible for the hurt and disillusionment that resulted? In this ...
Jun 22, 2021•55 min•Season 1Ep. 1
When Mars Hill Church was planted in Seattle in 1996, few would have imagined where it would lead. But in the next 18 years, it would become one of the largest, fastest-growing, and most influential churches in the United States. Controversy plagued the church, though, due in no small part to the lightning-rod personality at its helm: Mark Driscoll. By 2014, the church had grown to 15,000 people in 15 locations. But before the year was over, the church collapsed. On January 1st, 2015, Mars Hill ...
Jun 08, 2021•3 min
A first glimpse at the podcast, coming in June from Christianity Today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
May 24, 2021•2 min
