Why representation matters & making sure BLM isn’t just a trending hashtag w/ trailblazer & actor Ayeesha Ash

to the right place. I'm your host, Georgie Stevenson. I'm a lawyer turned entrepreneur, co founder of Naked Harvest Supplements, and social media personality with a community of over three hundred thousand. I grew up believing I had to pursue the safe option and fit into a mold others had created for me. But then I entered my corporate law job and I realized that settling for a reality that did I didn't set my soul on fire, was something I was not prepared to do. I wanted more, and I

have a feeling you do too. Join me and special guests weekly as we get down to the nitty gritty on all things health, mastering your mindset, creating lasting habits, thriving in your career and relationships, plus so much more, and together we'll gain the knowledge and perspective to pursue our wildest dreams and kick fear to the curb. Well, what are you waiting for? Let's rise and conquer. Hey guys, and welcome back to another episode of the Rise and

Conquer Podcast. Today on the show, I'm sharing a very important conversation. I'm joined by Aisha Ash. Aisha is a proud Murray Grenadian woman. Born in Grenadia and raised in Brisbane. Aisha is a trailblazer in her field of creative arts. She started her own highly acclaimed creative arts company called Blackbirds.

Aisha started Blackbirds when she noticed a lack of representation of women in color in the creative industry, and in our chat we get down to why this representation is so important and why it's important for women of color to take control of their narrative. Towards the end two we also discuss cultural appropriation and how we can better check ourselves. I truly believe that having open discussions about these issues and how we can actively help to make

sure everyone around us feels welcomed, love and seen. If you want to learn more about Black Lives Matter movement and how you can help, I've put a couple of links in the show notes Aisha is truly in inspiring and an example of being able to build a company from a pain point to lead the way. I am so grateful for her energy in opening up about some serious issues. Let's get into the show. Hey, Ayisha, welcome to the show.

of not bored. I was still doing things. But I feel like now that things are lifting, I've got so much more impetus to kind of get out into the world and create things again.

I feel almost a bit more motivated to you know, do the next things and start the next projects.

creative stuff for a while. And then I guess after acting school as well, I started to branch out into doing more things like writing, directing, producing, throwing events, and I freelance a lot. I also have an agent, so I get gigs through my agent, who were great, But I also freelance a lot and find and make a

lot of my own work. And I also run Blackbirds, which I think we'll talk about later, but I run a company creative arts code called Blackbirds, which focuses on making work fall buy and about women of color in Australia amazing.

to bed. So that's pretty like I have to be very self directed in terms of the work that I've been doing, especially during this whole COVID season, because a lot of the work that was planned was postponed or canceled, and so therefore there was no rehearsal period or anything. We were supposed to have weeks and weeks of rehearsals

for shows, but that was all postponed. So I've had to kind of pivot and think about the work that I'm creating and how I can use my day still to the full without pushing myself too much and without expecting too much of myself, which I'm sure you can agree is kind of hard, Like you feel like you should be doing stuff, doing stuffing stuff all the time, but it is really important to kind of give yourself

a break. And I think that's what I've been trying to do with COVID, you know, trying to do less but do it better.

a great quality. But now we're kind of being left in the dark by the government in terms of stimulus packages and stuff. So hopefully within the next few weeks we see a bit of change there.

in the film, TV media industry. So you're the artistic director of your own create arts company called Blackbirds, and you've also worked professionally as an actor. As you said, firstly, before we get into what Blackbirds is and how it came about, can you let us know. I guess how you came to have an interest in the creative industry.

I'm just not a sporty person. Unfortunately, I can watch your game, but when it comes to playing it, I'm just I'm good on the sidelines, like encouraging people, but on the field shocking. So I found I found my love. I guess when I was probably about ten or nine, I started doing dancing and I loved that and became such a huge part of my life. I think by the time I finished, I was doing about thirty to forty hours of class a week, so it was a

big part of my life. And I'm so grateful for it because I think, just the same as any of team sport does, you know, dancing offers such a great learning facility in the terms of discipline and working as a team and getting to know your body and getting to know music and all that kind of thing. So I started through dancing and then I went to a creative arts high school in Brisbane and I did theater

and music there as my two major creative subjects. And after that I decided, you know, I really loved acting. I think I was so shy as a kid that acting was something that I felt I could be someone else. So it was really nice for me to kind of get rid of that fear. And so when I went to acting school, it was a really big kind of It was a big change because I moved over to Perth.

It was the first time that I lived out of home, but it was such a supportive community, and I think acting has so many other benefits in terms of building confidence and getting to know yourself and also providing you with a lot of opportunities to kind of think about how other people work, you know, when you're doing character work and things like that. So yeah, I guess It's kind of just been like a flow on effect for me. And I could have gone to union, and I was

really considering doing law. I deferred it, but I just knew that it wouldn't make me happy, and it might have been an easier path, you know, and I've heard you talk about this before. It would have been an easier path to go down in terms of stability, but it just wouldn't have fulfilled me. And at the end of the day, you know, I know, I'm very lucky to have that option to do something that I can

feel fulfilled from. Not everyone has that option, and yeah, I feel really lucky to be able to pursue it. It is tough, as any creative industry is, but it's definitely worth it.

uncoordinated with sports. For me, it's just like, yeah, it was really good to have this sort of outing where you did learn those skills, but in a different creative way. And that's so interesting what you said about law and yeah, much the same. I went through the exact same sort of transition when I was like, Yeah, what am I doing? I don't actually enjoy this and I can kind of, you know, try this other thing that I enjoy. So

I love that you're following your passions. And I love so much that you started this creative company called Blackbirds. So I know you said this came as a response to the lack of representation of women of color in earlier in the arts industry. Can you expand more on this and explain what Blackbirds is about.

both finished drama school. I went to Whopper, she went to Nider and we were graduating into the industry and we were both really disappointed and not excited at all about the kind of opportunities that would be out there for us once we graduated, or you know, more more about I guess the lack of opportunities that would be out there. So from the get go, we just thought, well,

why don't we just create our own opportunities. And another thing I guess in terms of being at an acting school and meeting all these people, is that you see so many other women of color who have also trained professionally and who are amazing, but don't get any opportunity to share that because the commercial film and TV theater industries are very small and can be quite limited in

how they choose to represent people. And also I think sometimes they don't give the audience enough credit and they don't trust the audience in terms of what the audience wants to see and how much the audience wants diversity as well. So we just went, yeah, we're going to create our own company, and actually we wanted to start it as a podcast, and the podcast has only come about this year, so very slow on the podcast uptake. We've kind of got sidetracked with a lot of different practices.

But we do theater film, short film we've done visual artworks. We've also done live I guess more live art performances, and we've been able to to take our work to al Toyoto and New Zealand and Melbourne and Sydney, Brisbane and one of our films was even shown in by Batos,

which was really cool. So yeah, we really wanted to make sure that we created something that women of color from the diaspora from all over the world who called Australia home could share their stories and their experiences and feel seen as well as have an opportunity to share the talents and the skills that they've been working so hard on for so long, and often because there is a lack of opportunity, some of these women just decide

to step back from the industry altogether, which I can understand, but is also really it's just sad, I guess, because they've invested so much of their time in their life and to see something that was a passion for so many people just die because there's no opportunity and that they can't feel seen is pretty heartbreaking.

we're only just getting to this point now. I think we really can pick up the pace, and I think, you know, theater companies and production companies and casting agents need to, you know, really set some goals and markets for themselves and hold themselves accountable because one of the best things about Australia is how diverse our population is.

People come from everywhere, and it's such a shame to kind of waste those stories and just kind of pigeonhole what Australian culture is or what Australian culture could be to one type of person.

provides a real representation and not a stereotypical representation, because we know that stereotypes are so problematic, and you know, I can understand why they come in that they are a quick they're a quick fix, and it's kind of a bit of a lazy job to just put a stereotype in and not actually delve deep into the depth of a person. But we've seen before. There's this study that was done and I really recommend everyone go on YouTube and you can look at it. If you just

type in dole test on YouTube. You can watch it. But a study was done in America in the nineteen forties and they were trying to figure out the impacts of segregation on black and white students. So if anyone doesn't know, segregation was where they separated people of black and white races and they weren't allowed to go to school together or drink from the same water fountains or anything. It was mad And the black children they were given a black doll and a white doll, and they always

had bias. They wanted to have the white doll, they wanted to have the white skin because they were told that black was bad. Black was bad. And then in twenty ten they did a similar study kind of seeing

if anything had changed, and unfortunately it hadn't. And it was so heartbreaking to watch these kids pointing at the black doll, Black kids pointing at the black doll and saying, this doll is bad, this dole is ugly, this doll is dumb, this dole, this dole has nothing to offer because of the stereotypes and the lack of representation of black people on TV and in film. So to see that, you know, taken all the way from the forties to

twenty ten. This study was done in young children, I think between the ages of five and ten, is like, it just really highlights the importance of having people in control of their own stories so that you can have diverse and strong and beautiful representations of black people and you know, people who are from other minorities as well. I think it's just so important and it benefits everyone.

You know, no one wants to be going around with a very small minded view of the world, so it's I think it's everyone's benefit to have more interesting stories on screen.

But it's also an opportunity to learn and to challenge yourself and growth can often be uncomfortable, but you know you have to go through that to get to where you need to be or where you want to be. So I really think that you've just got to take the plunge. It's not always going to be easy, but just keep going, honestly, just don't give up. My mom has this magnet on the fridge. She's had it since I was a little kid, and it says, if you're going through hell, keep going. And I think about it

all the times. It's like, sometimes you've just got to keep going because if you stop, like, what's all that hard work for? And know that there's something there at

the end. You don't know what it is, maybe, but just keep going one foot in front of the other day after today, and don't compare yourself to anyone else, because you know, I think This is saying, you know, comparison is the thief of joy, and everyone is really running their own race, and everyone has a different life story, and you just can't compare yourself to someone else, because then you're just wasting your time and energy in stet

into you know, something that's not going to get you anywhere, instead of putting that into progressing your own goals or your own career.

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off your third pre workout or protein. Okay, let's get back into the show. I want to switch gears a tiny bit. And I've read in an interview that you were featured in in Folk Magazine, and you said, and this is a direct quote. I'm doing little quotes from my fingers right now, guys. So you said, our capabilities as women of color are often ignored or diminished because we've been denied access to certain space and or told that we're not good enough to thrive in the same

steares as white people. Can you kind of talk about this quote a bit more and explain the idea of tokenism?

as far. And what's meant by that is that even though some people don't know that, the implicit biases that they act on or the way that they have internalized racism because they've grown up in a society that you know, the indigenous people still don't have recognition in the constitution. That's also going to affect then the way that people

of color and people from minorities have access into these spaces. So, for example, even with something like a resume, there was a study done a couple of years ago in America talking about how if you have an ethnic sounding name, you're like fifty percent and this is probably not the exact number, but you're less likely to even have your resume read because your name sounds ethnic and not white.

So from the get go, someone with a name like mine, like Aisha, or someone with another ethnic sounding name, isn't even going to have a tiny foot in the door just because of their name. They won't even look at your qualifications. Also, you know, similar things happen though, even with age. You know, with agism, we know that agism is a real thing, and that women over a certain age they're probably not going to get a job because

people will think they're too old to employ. Saying with your gender, you know, sometimes if you have a male sounding name, if you're a female identifier and your name is something like I don't know, Blake, you're more likely to get a job interview because they will think you're a man. So it covers a lot of different things. And so there's a lot of different doors that are closed to people just because of you know, their race,

their age, their gender. So I think it's really important for especially people who run companies or people who have sway, who work in HR and all these types of things, to think about the way that you make room for difference, the way that you make room for people of minorities, and really look at your own practices and just hold

yourself accountable. Like I said before, you know, look at the structures and how they benefit you, and how something that is benefiting you is directly keeping someone else out.

any sort of actionable tips. Obviously, I don't want to sit here and ask you to explain everything, because we do have to go out and we have to do our own education, and we have to take responsibility one hundred percent. But I guess, you know, with being more aware with the content we consume and more mindful, do you have any actionable tips for the audience they can sort of do right now?

benefiting the culture or the minority group that they're showing off. So, for example, something that I've seen some people being called out about on Instagram over these past few weeks is some fashion labels all of a sudden, they're posting photos of black people or people of color on their instagrams, but you scroll down their feet, and before this Black Lives Matter was very much front and center of the media,

there was absolutely none. So it's very see through transparent that people are trying to jump on the bandwagon instead of saying, you know, something better to do would be say, hey, we're really aware that we have not used any black models or any models of color in our in our work before, and we're actively changing that and this is this is what we're doing and these are the steps

we're taking. So leading on from that as well, I think something great for you know, the listeners to think about is maybe if they have a brand that they love and they don't see any diversity there, just send

them a message. You know, it doesn't need to be it's not, you know, attacking someone, but just say hey, I've noticed that you don't have a very diverse range of models on your website or and that can be in terms of size as well as skin tone and even ability, like there should be models of disability on websites and things as well, So you can send a message to them and say hey, I've noticed this. It would be really great because the brands should want to

reflect what the purchaser wants, right. So if you're actively reaching out to them and saying this is you know, something that I want to see and more people and more people are doing that than they're more likely to change. Another really easy thing to do, and I know people feel uncomfortable about it, but just call out racism when you see it. You know, it doesn't need to be a huge fight, but just say, hey, that's not appropriate,

and or hey, that's actually really offensive. Sometimes people don't realize they're being offensive, and all it takes is for you to say, hey, this is offensive because or I really don't think that's an appropriate thing to say. And don't just let that fall onto the shoulders of your friend who is black or Asian or something different to you.

Don't let that fall onto your friend who's of a minority group, who probably has to do that all the time anyway, and probably feels even more uncomfortable about it than you do. So just do that. Those little things can make a huge difference.

injustices happening around the world and in Australia. I usually has an episode with these topics that runs through it very in depth, and I highly recommend you go listen. I'll make sure I pop it in the show notes because you know, iish I was so conscious because I don't want you to sit here and you know, explain stuff to the audience when we can go out and listen, and we definitely have the responsibility to do that. So I'll put that in the show notes for you guys.

But let's touch on In an episode, you did touch on cultural appropriation, and I know this has been a bit of a topic recently, and I want the listeners to just be a bit more aware about cultural appropriation. Can you explain a bit just what this concept is and a bit more why it is so important to be aware of this.

just for having it. So it's like when you're putting your understandings of another culture over that actual culture, you know, putting a package on it, modeling it and sometimes selling it and profiting off it. And yeah, it's using a culture that isn't yours for your own personal gain, and it it happens a lot, you know, and not just in terms of people wearing Indian headdresses to festivals, which I think a lot of festivals have actually now banned

because of cultural appropriation. And that can be very very offensive to people who those headdresses actually belong to, because they represent so much and also represents, you know, the years of oppression and the genocide that goes along with being an Indigenous person from those cultures. But it also has happened with fashion labels. I mean, I think a few years ago, maybe it was three years ago, Chanelle actually released a boomerang as part of their spring summer collection.

So you know, that's so inappropriate and you can't just take something that is so important to indigenous culture, here are our First Nations people and just put a Chanelle symbol on it and try and sell it for over one thousand dollars.

why it's such an issue. And it is because, you know, black women, especially black people, from when they were taken taken from Africa and used as slaves, their traditional hairstyles were were mocked and they were called ugly and uncivilized and disgusting, and they weren't allowed to show their hair because sometimes white women would get jealous of it, and so they would then wear these head raps that you see, and it was even made a law that sometimes you

would have to wear a head rap if you're a black woman with black hair. And then after that, you know, black women then designed wigs because and weaves because it was also part of the I guess stereotypical idea of beauty that if you had black hair, because of all these years of oppression already, then you would be ugly. So they wanted to cover their hair and hide it because if you had straight a hair, that made you

more desirable. And we even see that today. I mean, you just have to google unprofessional hairstyles and what comes up is black women with curly hair or afros, and that is so crazy to me to think about that. You know, just having my hairstyle is something that will

make me deemed unprofessional. And so then you know all these hairstyles that Black people have created, cornrows and braids, not only to keep up the health of their hair, but also because it has cultural significance in terms of showing things like you know where you're from, where I'm from in the Caribbean, my grandma and aunties and the

women there. It's a really cultural, culturally traditional thing that you sit on the steps on a Sunday and all the kids would have their hair braided every single Sunday. It's like it's a thing that brings people together. And then so to see fashion labels and these big celebrities then just wearing these hairstyles. Willy nilly because it makes them look cool and having no understanding of the years of tradition and also the years of oppression that come

with wearing a hairstyle. Someone like me, if I wear braids, then someone might say I look ghetto, but if a white person wears them, then they look really cool. So it's this real double standard that people need to be aware of. And like, there are so many other hairstyles that you could do. You don't need to have cornrows, you don't need to have those braids.

you so much for explaining that. And like I said, guys, please go and listen to Ayisha's podcast No Offense, but it will be linked and there's so many good episodes

in there. Before we finished the interview, I wanted to as you and we kind of touched on this, but how can we keep showing up and doing the work to ensure that this Black Lives Matter movement isn't just you know, something that is happening now and trending on social media, Like, how can we work towards ensuring this is a long term, long term sorry movement?

Keep having these conversations with people that maybe still aren't there in terms of being progressive, not even being progressive, just you know, having and open mind and challenging their own way of thinking and really have a conversation with people, because I think if you are putting in the work in terms of finding influences of different ethnicities to follow, finding different businesses that are owned by people of different ethnicities,

thinking about what type of media you consume in terms of you know, for example, this was quite a famous one, but I think it was maybe last year year before Sunrise, they did this segment saying that Indigenous children Indigenous parents can't care for their kids, or something ridiculous and offensive like that. You know what, don't watch that show anymore.

Don't buy into that. Don't believe it. And if you read something somewhere and you think it sounds a bit off, then look into it further, because sometimes some of our news sources can be really biased, and that's a really huge problem because a lot of people think that they don't have the time to kind of find the facts in there. But you know what, you do have the time, and it is fun actually to find out more information.

It's really amazing to have the opportunity to open your mind more, to consume more podcasts, to find different films to watch in different documentaries, to have genuine conversations with people. And I think it's so important to listen and when someone tells you something, you know, if an Indigenous person says to you, oh, that's racist, accept that and don't

try and fight it. And really, as I said before, I think it's so important for everyone to take time to sit with themselves and reflect on the world and the society that they're operating in, how it benefits them and how that keeps other people down and think about okay, well, what can I do to change that? Or how can I be an active ally? How can I support my friends? And also not even your friends. You know, some people say, oh, you know, I have a black friend and that's enough.

It's kind of like, well, that's not really to have a black friend. Great, good for you, but what are you doing? Are you supporting them? Are you buying a ticket to their show? Are you standing up for them when someone says something about them when they're not there? Like are you really having the conversations with your parents or your grandparents over the dinner table when they might say something that's not quite right? Just say something, you know,

not everything has to be a huge fight. Really, think about who you're talking to, how you're talking to them, and don't be afraid of it. I know it's hard. Sometimes it can be hard, but honestly, it's hard for us too, and we need people, we need non black people to be helping us because this is hundreds of years of work that we've been doing and we're still doing it and it's really would be so nice to have some help.

and to dig deeper. So yeah, I really appreciate your time and thank you so much for coming on the show.

keep talking and don't feel afraid. And also don't forget that Google is amazing and there's so much information out there.

for you to join us. Just search Rise and Concer Podcast Community or find the link in the show notes. And if you loved listening as much as I loved recording this episode, then please subscribe and leave a review. It really helps us out. And if you think of anyone who would benefit or enjoy this episode, please share it with them. You can also find more on Instagram at risinconcor dot podcast and more from me your hosts at Georgie Stevenson. Once again, guys, thank you so much

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