Welcome to the Rise and Conquer Podcasts. This podcast is for women who want to take ownership of their lives, live unapologetically, and are ready to turn their biggest dreams into their reality. If you're ready to be armed with the tools that will inspire to take bold action, feel confident within yourself, and conquer your goals, then you've come
to the right place. I'm your host, Georgie Stevenson. I'm a lawyer turned entrepreneur, co founder of Naked Harvest Supplements, and social media personality with a community of over.
Three hundred thousand.
I grew up believing I had to pursue the safe option and fit into a mold others had created for me. But then I entered my corporate law job and I realized that settling for a reality that did I didn't set my soul on fire, was something I was not prepared to do. I wanted more, and I have a feeling
you do too. Join me and special guests weekly as we get down to the nitty gritty on all things health, mastering your mindset, creating lasting habits, thriving in your career and relationships, plus so much more, and together we'll gain the knowledge and perspective to pursue our wildest dreams and kick fear to the curb. Well, what are you waiting for? Let's rise and conquer, Hey guys, and welcome back to the Rise and Conquer podcast. Today I am chatting with
Crystal Andrews. Crystal is a journalist and author of the little Book with a Big Mission called How to Win Every Argument.
Well bloody love that title.
This book aims to help people get informed on the fifteen hottest issues that shape our society and learn how to stay calm while debating them. And let me tell you, we even had our little calm discussion about astrology in this one at the end.
I really loved this conbo.
We also dive into a couple of chapters about her book and hear about why having big conversations on big issues is so important and why it's also important to be respectful of each other's views. I hope you enjoyed this chat as much as I did. Crystal is super down to earth and really knows her stuff. Let's get straight into it. Welcome to the show, Crystal.
Thanks so much for having me. Georgie, it's a pleasure to be here. Digitally virtually.
Yeah, actually, I know. I'm so excited because I, well the audience will know this, you would know this, but I did law, and so I'm all about arguments. It's something I'm very interested in and I'm really excited to chat to you and your book.
But before we get.
Into that, something that I always ask my guests is what season are they currently in. Of course, we are in self isolation most of us right now, and I'm just wondering what does this season look like for you?
Yeah, look, it's quite interesting actually because right now I would say that I'm in a season of putting myself out there, which is interesting for the time that we're in right now. As you say, obviously everyone's lockdown in self isolation, you know, depending on where they are in the world. But yeah, this is really, I guess, my time to put myself out there. But I would say that's coming off the back of what has been a
past season of real self reflection and introspection. So it's almost like I've had you know, we're all bunkered down right now. But for me, metaphorically, that was kind of what my twenty nineteen was like. I was really I was lockdown, I was writing the book, I was working on another manuscript and just taking lots of time to work out what's important to me and what I want from my life, and you know, figuring out what makes me tick and what my flaws are, what holds me back.
And I think that's almost like I needed that time then, and you really need to do that self analysis before you can push yourself like way out there. So coming into to twenty twenty, I felt really ready to have kind of my moment in the sun, and I'm just embracing putting out my book and my work and myself to just connect with as many more people as possible
in twenty twenty. And that got off to a real rocking start at the beginning of the year, and over the past kind of months it's taken on a different shape, but that's kind of where I'm at now. It's interesting.
That's so interesting because, like you said, it's a little bit opposite to what a lot of people are doing now. But I really love that the fact that you know, you said, this is your season where you kind of are putting yourself out there, and you're still able to do that obviously, you know virtually and through online platforms and all that sort of thing. So that's really interesting. Thank you for sharing.
No problems, it's yet it's a it's a funny time because I think it's almost opened up more opportunities. You know, even this, even this interview, I'm based in Sydney, so it's not always, you know, an option for people to travel or for me to travel to do interviews and press and meet people and have those kind of connections. But because everybody's not moving around, no one's traveling right now,
everybody's looking at different virtual options. It's almost opened up more possibilities I think in some ways and in certain industries.
Yes, exactly, it is. It's funny you say that because when I started the podcast, I did most of my interviews like online. I did a lot of people from overseas, and then at the start of the year, I was like, my twenty twenty goal is to do all these like in person interviews, and I did do I did go to Sydney and I did a whole bunch. But then this happened and I was like, oh, okay, well back to the online because it is it it's a lot more accessible when you're obviously doing it virtually and all
that sort of thing. So yeah, interesting times.
Yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Okay, so well let's get into it. Can you give the audience a bit of a snapshot of who Crystal Andrews is?
Yeah? Wow, Crystal? Who is she? I'm a journalist and media professional and I'm an author, and I'm super passionate about getting young Australians. But I guess really just people in general very much engaged with news and big social issues.
So I've just published a book called How to Win Every Argument, and that really hones in on the fifteen kind of big topics that us shaping our world today and gives readers kind of the language and the context and the key information to have conversations around those topics, which is something I'm super passionate about. But then on top of all of that, I would say, I'm a daughter,
I'm a sister, I'm a friend, I'm a mentor. I'm a West Australian living in Sydney, and I'm self isolating in a little apartment with my boyfriend Pierre and a growing collection of plants slowly taking over my life.
Plants, indoor plans and outdoor plants are everything, are they?
It's just really keeping me entertained at the moment. Every time I get a new leaf, it's just so exciting.
Oh well, thank you for sharing that with us. Let's chat about your career. So I know that you've worked in the daily mail, pop Sugar, and now you have your own digital news platform called Zfeed. What urged you to start your own media platform?
I guess the main kind of driving force was out of a need that I kind of needed to meet in myself, which I imagine so many people who start up side hustles or you know, entrepreneurs. It's the same kind of thing. You look around and see a gap that you yourself are looking for that information. So for me, you know, I've worked for some incredible major global publishers and I still do, so z Feed is my little
side hustle. But I was really looking for news that was produced specifically for social media and digital natives, which I imagine you and I and most of the people listening to this podcast are, but news that actually brought all of the context in together to the one story and gives you everything you need to know at once. Because I guess what I've learned over my career is that the nature of news is that it's new, so you only get the new piece of information with each article.
You just kind of get the latest development. But if you're coming into that at that moment, there's a whole lot of background on context that you might have missed and can seem really intimidating to start at a big topic kind of just in the moment when you don't have that background. I felt that's what a lot of youth news that was being produced, that's what it was lacking.
So that's what I wanted to bring. Provide that context, provide the background, and kind of do all of the reading across you know, what might be five, six, seven, eight different articles, and bring that all together in one piece of content that someone could actually approach in a more accessible way. That was really what I wanted to achieve, And I think I'm doing an okay job so far.
Yes, I absolutely love that, And I couldn't agree more Because I am I'm someone who I don't look I'm
not gonna lie. I'm not the biggest news reader in that regards, Like I personally cannot stand watching the news, but I do like kind of pop culture news, if that makes sense, And something that I do find is I will kind of come into something and be very lost what is even, like, you know, especially a stuff that is quite it's been going on for a while, like the me Too movement and different assets like that. So I've really really loved that aspect.
It's so true. And even you know, working in media and working in news for my day job, like, even I find it hard. And the only reason that I'm so exposed to is because that's what I do on a day to day basis. So I am already constantly reading. I am already constantly consuming this content. But like, let's face it, not everyone has the time to sit around and read, you know, six or seven different pieces on the same topic just to understand it. So it's really
just a necessity I think that people can have. This is something you can just dive into, get the gist of it, get the background and the key points, and then feel like you can go out into the world with a bit of a better understanding and actually engage.
With the topics.
Yeah, and have a bit of your own opinion because you have the whole story exactly. That's exactly right, amazing, and I wanted to ask you do you have because I know people listening, you know, whether they're in university or they're just really interested in, you know, the news and the media and that sort of side of things. Do you have any advice for someone who's interested in learning a career in the media.
Yeah, definitely. Look, it's an interesting time right now, and I guess media broadly has been through quite a turbulent kind of five to ten years and it's constantly changing
and evolving. But I would absolutely say that at the entry level right now, there are so many really big opportunities to get your foot in the door in what people might see is I guess maybe the more unexpected kind of niches within media, So things like social media, digital or video content production and podcasting is a really
big one as well. Those are kind of the opportunities at the entry level right now, and it's an exciting time because you can get your foot in the door with skills that are easy to build up just kind of on your own time. You know, we're all on social media all the time. We know how to produce social media content. You know, if you have an interest in podcasting and interest in audio, that's such a big opportunity.
So I think it does really kind of pay to be tuned into the industry, have your favorite publications and follow what they're doing really really closely, read them all the time, like just stay engaged so that you can see the trendses they kind of arise. And like I say, podcasting is a really good example because lots of big media publishers are either starting or expanding their podcast teams kind of recently. So if that's an interest, that's an opportunity to kind of reach out and see if you
can help those teams. And if you have the audio skills, great, But even if you don't, they still need people to help research transcribing audio, which is such a nightmare.
I'm sure.
I'm sure that you'll know so much about that. So you know, even if you reach out and say, like, hey, I'm really interested in getting a foot in the door and media, I'm really interested in podcas. Do you need someone help transcribing audio? If someone sent that to me, I'd be like, yes, I do need help. So all those little small tassa and opportunity I think to get your foot in the door.
That is such amazing advice. Chrystal and I couldn't agree more. It's funny when you were saying it. I remember kind of growing.
Up and I've been out of school for.
Oh good, like eighty years now or something, but I remember when I first started my YouTube, I was thinking to myself, I did have this like chance in school to do like media and do like video editing, and I remember thinking, oh my god, when am I going
to use that? And then like, I have this career now which is very based off like editing and all these things which I thought the skills didn't matter, and I was like, oh my god, I just wish I kind of, you know, like went with my gut and just like went with these skills because they are, like you said, it's stuff you can be doing in your spare time, because it's also stuff that can be super interesting.
And I actually have help with this podcast, and the girl who helps me, Grace, she is doing her law and journalism degree and she is super interested in podcasting, and I thought that is such a smart way to get your foot in the door.
Absolutely, it's such an opportunity because you know, bigger media organizations are stacked up with people who have so much amazing experience and have kind of come through those more traditional pathways, but that means they don't necessarily have the skills that you need for newer media. So for anyone who's looking to get in, like, I really highly recommend that as an avenue. It's also just fun to learn new skills. I don't know, I really enjoy it.
I love that.
So let's switch gears and let's chat about your book.
So you were.
Lovely enough to send it to me, and I remember looking at the cover and just going, oh my god, I'm going to love this book. Like I said, I'm very into winning arguments, have been since I was a young child.
Really why, I.
Studied law and I took a little with through a little read and it is just such a great book. So it's called how to Win Every Argument.
I've read it.
I've loved it. Each chapter dives into a very I would call them like in topic and it basically helps people come up with a fact base come back to a debate that you might be having. So can you tell us, like, where did this idea come from to write this book?
Oh my gosh, I'm so glad to hear that you love it. I've got such a good reaction from I think a lot of people who think the same as us. Where you see the cover and you go, oh my god, that is written for me. Just love to get into these debates. It was inspired by a couple of different things. I'm from a big family. It's myself and there's four kids in my family and my parents, and we're all
really close. And I remember from the time of being about ten or eleven years old, sitting around the dinner table and getting into these really you know, interesting important discussions and debates, and our parents really encouraged us to speak up and have an opinion, but also to be prepared to back that up with some substance or some
you know, a little bit of something. So, you know, I remember like getting into conversations about, you know, whether homework is important to do, and whether you know, kids should have to wear school uniforms, and you know, those kind of things like that you debate with your parents when you're like ten or eleven, And it's something that still definitely happens now whenever we're all together, and we're quite a loud family, So if you're at the dinner table,
you've got to kind of be ready to hold your own and bring your information to back you up. But I think those those memories and having those debates my parents and my siblings really kind of set the foundation of who I am, and then also this book. But then a couple of years ago, I had a conversation
with my younger sister. She's ten years younger than me, and she's very much conscious and engaged with the big issues, and she'd just studded UNI and she was telling me about this argument she'd gotten into with like some dumb UNI guy about the gender pay gap, and she was trying to explain to him why it was a real thing.
But she was telling me she got so frustrated because in the heat of the moment she'd just forgotten everything, like all the stats, all the numbers, and she wasn't like fast enough to google it and find the information to kind of get her point across, Like you know that feeling when you just remember it after the argument
is over. Yes, So that really got me thinking, like, can is it possible create a guide that is quite handy to the point, has all of the important information with it, and it's written in a way that will stick in your mind. And after toying with that idea for a little bit. I thought, well, you know what, I'm just going to write it and see how this goes. And I think I started with two or three topics and ended up with fifteen. So that's how the book came about.
That is so interesting.
I love it.
It's just so organic. And so what is your advice? Because even though I did just say, you know, I love the title, I've always been one to stand up for myself and argue. I do kind of find in this day and age, I do sometimes not go full full force into an argument or a conversation because, you know, just everyone has such different beliefs. There's a lot of
like hot topics, a lot of controversial topics. What would your advice be to someone who kind of has a bit of trouble communicating their beliefs, especially with people who might disagree.
Yeah, you're so right. Like, some of these topics are very touching and like a bit sensitive, and people have really closely held beliefs, so it can seem like quite scary to get into it with someone, especially if it's someone that you you love and you know that's in your circle and you're worried about kind of offending them
or disagreeing with them. I guess, like my main tip, and this is going to sound a bit nuts, but for those topics that you're really passionate about, it's kind of a matter of really constantly repeating like the key numbers, the key stats, the key facts to yourself over and over and over until they stick in your head, because that is kind of the biggest at least for me, that's the biggest challenge is being able to recall them fast enough in the heat of the moment that it
just seems really seamless and natural. Because a lot of the time that is what's most convincing to other people, that you kind of have a seamless communication of your idea. So like I used to get into I still do get into arguments with my dad about, you know, whether it's harder for people to buy a house now compared to in his time. So I just had to commit those numbers to memory that salaries have been increased by five times, but the house prices have increased by twenty times.
So it's really clear then that there's not a comparable you know, there's not a comparable increase. It's really hard to disagree with facts like that. But then I suppose another tip would be to also like really listen to what the other person is saying, because sometimes you're both talking to slightly different things, which means you don't really get to the core issue, so you have to really
listen to find out what they're like. Main beef is kind of like it happens a lot with people who try to deny human involvement in climate change is a good example, because sometimes it's actually not that's not the issue they're upset about or that they don't believe in. It might be something like the fact that they think their electricity bill is going to be higher with renewable energy sources, which is kind of related to climate change,
but not really. So once you know what the real issue is, you can speak to that rather than you know, just talking about two related but different things.
I enjoy that. And something I just want to add on top of that is sometimes I find when you are talking about a topic that you are quite passionate about, you can often get into this mentality where you just don't even hear what the other person is saying because you just like you are so strong on your belief and you just you know, you know you're right or whatever, and you can kind of be a bit small minded and not even really kind of look into what they're saying.
Whereas I find when you really like hear them out and give them the time to, you know, speak and explain, you can jump on at the same page a bit more, if that makes sense.
One hundred percent. And a lot of the time people just want to want their opinion to be heard as well, you know, if it's someone that you you know, you know, I'm not talking about random people on the internet, but if it's someone within your circle, they might just want to be heard.
Yes, yeah, one hundred percent. Well, let's dive into some other topics you cover, just to give the let's audience a bit of a skim And the first one I want to chat about it is you did kind of just chat about it, bet climate change. So what made you want to write this chapter?
Yeah, once I started researching it, Like, it wasn't really the people in my you know, in my real life who didn't believe that humans have accelerated the rate of climate change, but it was more so the commentary online that I was seeing of people who really were pushing hard against this accepted knowledge, and I feel like, again most of your listeners and we can both agree that this is kind of the defining global challenge of our
time that is going to affect absolutely everyone. I mean, no one's immune to this, so it's clearly very important. And even though like obviously right now we're facing another once in a lifetime crisis with COVID nineteen. But once that's been.
Yeah, where's the pandemic chapter.
Exactly, I've got to get onto that asap. But even once that's under control, we're still going to be left with this environmental crisis. So it really felt like an important one to tackle.
Just this is a little bit off point, but just with that, I was thinking the other day with COVID nineteen, it really has I feel like it really has like showt not a light on the climate change issues in just a bit of a different way where it's almost like people are understanding it a bit more too, which is really good. But sorry, that was a bit of a website bit there, So can you kind of explain the misconceptions about climate change and why do people argue about it?
There was just so much freakin' misinformation on the internet about climate change and our role in it, and that I think means that there's a lot of stuff to people for people to argue about, because there's information and then there's twisted information, and it just kind of like
keeps going in this perpetual cycle. But the main big misconception that I kept seeing was people saying that this would have been happening anyway, and that at previous times in the history of the planet, the climate has been it's been hotter, the seal levels have been higher, it's been far more hostile than it is right now, So that proves that it's not our fault, because the funny thing is that that's kind of true, but it's besides the point. And I didn't see a lot of people
addressing the fact that it was beside the point. So if someone says, you know, oh, the climate was already two degrees hotter than it is now three million years ago, it's like, yeah, okay, but you know, there were no humans living on the planet then and we are here now, so it does matter how that same temperature increase impacts our lives now. It's kind of irrelevant that it was hotter before, And I didn't see a lot of people addressing that part of the issue.
I love that it's like a windy argument right there.
Yeah, case closed.
That fit, and you do like, I really recommend everyone to read this book because even though we're kind of skimming over it because obviously this is, you know, a short podcast, but do really recommend because even though we're just talking about little snippets, like Crystal really goes into each aspect and I did like something I did really love about the book is like each chapter is only
two or three pages. I think it's two, and it's like you have basically what they would say and how you would answer, and then really like to the point at each side of the argument.
So it does really equip you. So yeah, really love that.
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fifty percent off your third pre workout or protein. Okay, let's get back into the show. Let's change topics and let's talk about home ownership. So what arguments occur about this topic.
Yeah, this was one again obviously, as you'd imagine, very much inspired by my dad and the arguments that we would sometimes have about it. And again and broadly the commentary that you see online with people just getting stuck into millennials for having too much avocado toast and that's why they can't afford to buy property, and you know, then the millennials getting stuck into the boomers saying, well, you know, you've created this situation where it's an impossible
housing market to get into. And this was really one for me, I think, where I know that I had the feeling it was harder to buy property now than it was in, for example, the seventies, but I didn't know that for sure, so I wanted to really investigate it, go and find all of the numbers and oh my gosh, researching this chapter was like a kind of a pain because it involved like going into the ABS data from nineteen seventy seven and nineteen ninety seven and scrolling through
all these reports and trying to you know, figure out all these huge tables with all this data in it. So it was a bit of a mission. But I've been able to like condense that into a much smaller table that just compares the prices, the average price of the houses over three differentferent decades, average incomes over three different decades, so that you can really just see at
a glance what the situation is. And yeah, this one, for me, you know, it is a simplified take on the topic because there are so many factors that go into it, of course, but for me, it just really is that stat that you know drives at home that even though our salaries, the average salary is so much higher than it was, you know, three or four decades ago, the average price of a home in Australia has gone up twenty times what it was, And that's kind of the you know, that's the one that I hold up
and say, this is clearly not the same way. Not comparing light for like, it's not about spending too much at the coffee shop. It's kind of about a more fundamental problem. I don't have the solution for it, but at least we can kind of get a better understanding of where we all stand and almost stop that generational argument where it's just two sides at each other, Like, really, we should all be on the same page with it.
Yes, yes, one hundred percent. And I love that you did have that table and there it was very simplified. I love that you did speak about even like the cost of living. I know, I think you spoke about like a big mac or something like that, and it's just like, the cost of living is just so much more to since the seventies.
It is, there's so much that goes into it. I love that big Mac indicator. I think it was actually a concept. It's a concept that's been around for a little while. But they map the price of a big Mac over the different years because that's kind of an indicator of what the cost of living is, because you know, as time goes by, the price of things increase, So yeah, when you compare it across all the decades, it's interesting. But then also really informative.
Yeah, for sure, it's so interesting. I was like, oh my god, it was so cheap back then.
And the whole point, like, you know, the whole point of the book is really to your point, like to make it accessible and simple and quick, like nobody wants to. I don't wish upon anyone to have to read did the abs tables that I had to read to write this chapter? Like it needs to be quick and easy to understand, I think for people to dive into because otherwise just who has the time?
Literally awesome, I just want to I just want to go into one more topic before we wrap. Yeah, and this is this is going to be a bit controversial. I'm not gonna lie. So you do have a whole chapter. I when I say whole chapter eight is two pages. I know, I keep saying a little chapter. And see this is this is the interesting part. So you do have a chapter on astrology. And I am someone like I did a law degree. I'm very structured, I'm very science based, but like I believe in astrology. I'm not
gonna I'm just gonna put it out there. My star signed all that sort of stuff. And you do have this ad chapter where you go into it, and you were kind of on the opposite side, and it was quite insightful for me because you're really seeing both sides of the argument, which I do enjoy, even though it's probably not what I wanted to hear, if I'm going to be very honest with you, but I do love that you have both sides of the argument and you
really go into it. Did you find it it was like kind of difficult going from both sides of the argument, or did you.
Just kind of go off your own beliefs.
It was I would say it was difficult, but it was really interesting and opening to me to approach both sides.
I knew I wanted to set it up that way because it's more like a conversation, and the whole purpose of the book is to encourage people to stimulate conversation and get into, you know, discussions, So I knew that I wanted to be framed as two people kind of having that debate, and I guess like to do the research for that, I had to go down these rabbit holes of you know, forums and comment threads and reading opinion pieces that were the total opposite to what I believe.
Because you kind of need to find out what the other half thinks and what the other side is saying if you want to get into a genuine communication with people, because otherwise, like I said, you're just yelling your opinions out into the abyss and not really caring who respond. So you do have to understand the other side. It was fascinating reading some of these, you know, some of these threads and some of the things people believe.
That's what I do. I do love about it because, even like I said, even if you're on the opposite tie side, I think it is very beneficial when you know what the other person is thinking and you can almost have I'm trying to think of what's the word, like almost have a bit of a respect for their opinion, if that makes sense. So, like even me reading the astrology section, like in my head, I was going, yeah, cool, I still believe what I believe, but it's good to
know what you know other people could be thinking. That makes sense, And it's like having a bit more respect to the other side because it is kind of spelled out a bit more fear.
Yeah, absolutely, and like you know, probably not as relevant to the astrology will come back to that, but for some of the chapters. When I was doing all of this reading about what other people think, what really struck me is that for most of us I'm talking like for ninety percent of the of the comments and the articles that I was reading, people are all driven by
the same thing, and that's fear. And that is really something we can all relate to because when it comes down to it, like you know, anti vaxxers, they are scared for the safety of their children. You can't argue, Like, you can argue with that, but you can have respect for that as you're saying, you can understand it and appreciate where they're coming from. You know, a lot of people who support coal mining in Australia, they're scared for
their own job security. They're scared for the very fragile local economies of their communities. And again you can't really blame them for that, Like I would be scared of that too if it was my local community. And so even though you might have to do a bit of digging with someone to find out what is driving their belief, I think when you get to that place of understanding where the opinion comes from, why they think the things that they do, you know, where their information comes from.
You know, what do they read, who do they listen to. You can get a real sense for why people think that. And it's just made me so much more aware of how I go about in the world, how other people exist in the world, and it's important to be sensitive to other people, even though it might seem on the face that they're really aggressive or tough or whatever. It is a lot of the time is underpinned by fear.
Hmm, that's so interesting and so yeah, that's so correct.
Yeah, it's crazy, Like it does take a while, I think to get to that bottom layer. Like there's this technique called the five wise. I don't know if you have heard about this or kind of come across the theory, but it was originally developed I think by the founder of Toyota. Might have to fact check that one. I think it was Toyota, and it was a technique that they were using in the you know, in their car manufacturer to find, like to try and solve functional issues
that they were having with the cars. But the general concept is you go through and you continue to ask why why why until you get to the core problem. And if you solve the core problem, you'll fix the issue right at the top, and that really applies, I
think to some of these arguments. If you ask someone why they believe what they do, you know, and just keep drilling down, you can find a commonality and something that you can understand, something that you can appreciate, and something that you can actually discuss with them in probably a more constructive way than just having an argument about, you know, about something that's very personal to both.
Yes, I love what you just said. The word constructive. That's what I felt like when I was reading the book, Like even if I you know what I was just saying about astrology, e though I didn't necessarily agree, it felt very constructive knowing the other side, knowing the kind of points and being like, oh that's fair enough, Like respecting that constructive.
So yeah, i'd love to know, Like what you know what appeals? Like you? Why do you like astrology? Tell me I'm selling to this now.
There's really I was actually thinking about this.
I was like, should I bring this up?
Because I often have No, it's definitely not an argument. But the only way I can kind of explain it is like, for instance, like I even though I am someone who's definitely like I'm ostructured. I love facts, I love science, I love all that.
Sort of thing.
But it just because I'm let me, let me get my tray to thought into order. Basically, you know, like if you think about it, we haven't found out everything in the world, Like we haven't. I guarantee there's you know, like maybe animal species we don't know about it, or like different stuff we haven't figured out. And so my thing is just because we fully don't understand it right
now doesn't mean we weren't in the future. So for example, you know, back in the day, like I'm talking medieval times, there was certain stuff that they just like couldn't understand. Where's now We're like, oh my god, you're so silly, Like yeah, yeah, gravity. You can't see it, you can't feel it. It's such a hard concept to grasp, but we know it's there because we're standing on the earth,
if that makes sense. So I'm a big believer in like law of attraction and manifesting, which is so hard to kind of grasp and put down into you know, a specific structure or words or science or something like that. But like I really have this like trust in this like bigger thing of Oh my gosh, I just like.
I feel it. I feel it.
I don't know how to explain it, and that's obviously just me as a person.
Does that make sense, It absolutely makes sense. And like this is really the appeal of astrology in particular and a lot of those similar kind of belief systems. I mean, this is the underpinning of religion, like astrology is.
I wouldn't want to say that, but then I didn't want to.
Yeah, astrology is probably, like you know, a lighter way to dipute into what is ultimately a discussion about faith and belief, which is so personal to people. And there's really, you know, not a lot of right and wrong way
to have faith and have belief at all. And yeah, that's the role that astrology has played in all kinds of societies throughout history as a way of understanding the world, of understanding the things that we cannot see, and I think ultimately being able to trying to like, you know, frame this in the right way, but absolve ourselves of some of the responsibility of how our life turns out, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse, because if it's in the fate of the stars, then there's only so
much you can do. But I actually think there's a real merit to still thinking that and having some degree of that in your life, because the reality is, luck plays so much a part in, you know, how our lives play out and where we all end up. Whether you think that's luck guided by the stars or just total randomness of life, it doesn't really matter, so long as I think you're not pinning too much of your life decisions on it, If that makes sense. I don't know if that's come out right.
No, I'm with you, And that's like I do want to preface that. So for example, right this second, I'm going to I have this app called Costar, and you basically put in your birth date, your birth time, and it gives you, you know, like your your sun star, your moonstar, your moon z.
Yeah, so many friends who are obsessed with coast.
Yes, I get the appeal.
I see the appeal.
For example, I often go into Kosa and I don't agree with like my my daily horoscope and stuff like that. So for example, let's just look at today. It says, let's go on to updates. Bear with me, guys, this is not planned, this is real.
We're off the cuff.
So it says it's easy to align your intellect with your desires.
Today.
Now is the time for you to catch feelings, rediscover what's in your closet. That's fucking very.
Vague, but wow.
Like sometimes I'll read my crosa and just be like, what the fuck this is crazy? So I one hundred percent I agree with you in the way of I don't look at like my horoscope and then decide how my day is going to be. I'm a big believer in like you create your own reality. So like everythink I have, Like I'm very much like I go out
and work for things. I make the first action. But I think what you were saying about there's almost this sense of relief when you do trust in whether I'm personally not religious, so I think I do attract to astrology and you know, law of attraction and that sort of thing, because you almost have this sense of relief that a higher something, whether you know it's God, universe, whatever is like I guess like guiding you or has your boom or it's almost just this relief of oh
my God, it's not me against the world. I have this force or intuition or whatever with me and it. I don't know, it's almost like comforting.
Absolutely, It's like you don't have to do it all on your own. It's not the weight of the world on your shoulders alone. There's something else supporting you, and that can be a relief.
Yes, exactly. And even though I'm here, I'm like, I'm taking all the actual steps, I'm taking the inspired action. I think, just me as a person, I do find it comforting having this overarching thing and this overarching belief that, you know, like I can make these small steps and in the bigger picture, I'm you know, getting closer to whatever I want or you know, my desires, beliefs, blah blah blah. And also you know, when things are a bit bleak and aren't going right and things are a
bit in the shit, if you will. For example, like with with what's happening with COVID nineteen, I went through a couple of bad weeks where I was in this place of very like lack of mentality and was just struggling a bit because I am such a structured human being. And then with you know, the next six to twelve months plans out the window, I was just like, yeah, I was not in the greatest headspace and so kind of coming back to the you know, everything happens for
a reason. Even though my twelve month plan isn't working out, it's that or better, you know, like those sorts of things. It does give me a sense of relief and I can kind of let go of control and be like, Okay, I can look at today, I can put one foot in front of the other. But you know, like something the universe has my back or whatever the saying is.
If that makes sense, yeah, absolutely does. And you know, I guess this chapter of the book, it's probably one of the lighter, one of the lighter chapters, but it does kind of acknowledge that there really is a merit in you know, if you believe in astrology and you like to follow the stars, and you know, you read your horoscope and you know your your sun and moon and rising signs, there can be a real merit to that,
so long as you have enough awareness and understanding. And it sounds like you really do of why they seem to work and how it seems to work. And I do think like seem to work is the key. Astrology and horoscopes are kind of based on this general it's all called the Barnum effect, and the book explains it much better than I will now, But basically, it's that we will identify with and remember those kind of general
descriptions that astrology tends to use. We remember them more so when they seem to match us, and we don't really pay much attention when it doesn't seem to match us. So that kind of creates this self fulfilling loop where you just remember the ones that are good and you forget the ones that are bad.
Ae hundred percent. And it's just like you know, that's saying, you know, when you want a certain car and then you start seeing it everywhere, Yes, exactly, it's in there bit just because you're putting your attention on it. And I exactly one hundred percent I agree. I was reading this book. I can't remember. I'll have to try and
think of it and tell you. But basically it's this whole book and they did a lot of scientific studies on law of attraction and manifesting and so like, for example, the study would be they would get this like two sample groups and one sample group they would put in a room and they'd be like, everyone, think of the number eight and you have to like really believe it that you're going to get this number eight, and they'd have a random black number machine.
Bear with me, this is a bit of a long story.
And then the other sample group they would be like, think of the number eight, but don't believe in it, like it's not actually going to show up. Like basically one side is a believer in it and one side isn't. And they said, the craziest result of all these studies showed if you believe in it, you're correct. If you don't believe in it, you're correct.
Yes, that is exactly like you get me.
And I was like, like my brain exploded, and I think that's why I do believe in it, because it's like yeah, but as long as like it's okay if other people don't believe in it, because they're not going to see the benefits because they don't believe in it, whereas I do. And so one hundred percent, it's like you said, it's like self fulfilling prophecy sort of loop. But I personally use that to advantage in my life.
And I've seen very like very much with physical results, how that can be played out to my advantage.
If that makes sense.
And how it can be helpful for you. Yeah, no, I totally understand that. Like I think I almost see the star signs as another way that people kind of use to understand to categorize our personalities. So they're almost like personality tests that we're kind of just choosing, which I think again, that has its merits. If you read,
you know, a personality discrima pisces. So if I read a description and I thought, ooh, those do sound like my strength, those do sound like my flaws, that is kind of good because it gives me a bit of an awareness of what my you know, flaws and errors to work on might be. So I do think.
There's and you can lean into them.
Yeah, exactly, there's there's there's a lot of merit to be had. What I will say personally ticks me off so much much. I get so fucked off when this happens during the year, the mercury retrograde.
Shit.
Oh, I just can't get on board with.
I know, I saw your answer in the book, and I like had a lull because I'm gonna lie, I do agree, because I feel like it's happening all the time, and I'm like hmmm. Mine's like if my if I'm on my period and it's also mercury retrograde, I'm like, oh, yeah, I believe exactly.
And I just I get so fucked off because I feel like this is driven a lot by meme culture as well and social media. But I do kind of think we're approaching this point where we're using mercury retrograde as an excuse.
Oh, I'm with you.
Yeah, it's like, oh, you know, if shit's going wrong, don't worry. Mercury is in retrograde the planet of communication. Like, clearly I know a lot about this because I've had to research now, haven't I. But it's you know, it just but then what about the rest of the year when it's not in retrograde and shit goes wrong? Like does that mean at those times it's one hundred percent
your fault? Like this is why I just I can't buy into the thing as a whole, because I feel like I have to take it all or none.
I do one hundred agree with you. And that's what's really interesting is I'm not like all or nothing with it. There's like certain parts that I take and I use my life and I'm I'm with you, but then I definitely agree with you, and then sometimes I can be very much like you know, my brain is like what is what are they talking about? Responsibility of your life?
I do love an astrology meme, though there is the astrology memes are good.
They ah good.
I love the astrology Instagram accounts where they like do funny like star signs with I don't know they match it to you know, a personality or like a celebrity or something like. It is entertaining for sure. Well, thank you so much. I'm going to wrap up this convert because we just like went off on a riff which I I really enjoyed.
At the end, I have loved, loved this chat. Thank you so much for having me.
No, it's good, and this is what I'm talking about, like a good sort of back and forth argument, well not even argument, but just conversation. Is can be so beneficial and just like really constructive.
Absolutely, I think it's it's one of the ways. It's an underrated way. One on one conversation is a really underrated way of creating change in the world. I really believe that.
No, I'm with you so much, and this book is so great because you have picked you know, fifteen on point topics that everyone should really be around, even if it's just to know the opposite argument a hundred percent. So thank you for even bringing to the world something like this.
Oh, thank you so much of course.
And lastly, Crystal, something that I do ask all my guests at the end of each episode. It's kind of like an odd question to ask at the moment with everything happening, but what do you find is your source of motivation and inspiration?
Can you link?
That's a really yeah, that's a really good one. Look. I know that you're not supposed to get too much external motivation, but I will say every time I get a message from someone who's read the book or read you know, one of the articles that we're breaking down
on social media with z feed. Whenever I get messages from people saying that it was helpful and that they are having conversations about it or they found it interesting, that just really lights me up and I do a little dance because that's truly the reason why I'm even doing any of this. So that is something that I really love and keeps pushing me to do the same, especially on those tough days where you know, you just
can't get up and go. I kind of think, you know, someone's going to read this and it might help them, so you've got to do it. So I suppose that's an external motivator, and then internally, I just like to try and better myself a little bit each day. If you've had a bad day, it's like, Okay, it's fine, we'll just get up and try again tomorrow. I think
that's particularly relevant right now. I've you know, as many people, I think, I've had some really good days in isolation, and I've had some really bad days, and it's really just one foot in front of the other at this point.
I love that I resonate with that so much. Like I said, I'm such a planner. So a big thing for me right now is exactly that, just like looking at today, what can I do today for myself to move forward in you know, my projects or goals or whatever, and then that's enough, leaving it as that and not getting caught up in you know, the future or the bigger pitch out because it is just so uncertain.
Right now, it really is.
Well, thank you so much, Crystal, this has been a delight.
Thanks for having me Georgie of course.
And that's a wrap on another episode of the Rise and Conker Podcast. I hope you got something valuable from it, and I want to say a big thank you for tuning in.
I really really do appreciate it.
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