F*ck your diet!! How to make eating easy with author Caroline Dooner

Hi, and welcome to the Rise and Conquer Podcast. I'm your host, Georgie Stevenson. I am a lawyer, ten health coach, social media influencer, wife and dog mum. On the Rise and Conquer Podcast, we dive deep into all things mindset, habits, career, health, relationships and more. This is a podcast for women who want to rise up to be the best version of themselves, who have big dreams in who are willing to put

Good?

How are you Georgia?

I'm really good. Thank you, thank you so much for coming on the show.

I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to get into it.

It's always fun to talk to people who get it and who I'm not convincing.

So let's get straight into it. Before we get into all the goodness. As this is the Rise in Conka podcast, I want to ask you what is one thing, big or small that you are rising up and conquering this week.

This is going to sound a little counterintuitive, but for me, if I do not go to sleep at a good hour, for me, if I mess up that night sleep schedule, I mean it's like nighted not you know, no pun intended, but it is.

I'm like a totally different person if I get a good eight hour hours of sleep compared to you know, I don't do well.

I'm much less than that. I'm not my kindest best self.

So I am rising and conquering good sleep habits and actually getting in bed at a reasonable hour and sleeping rising and conquering sleep so I can rise and conquer other things.

I love that.

It's so simple but so important. Do you have like a nighttime routine which helps you get to sleep or.

I don't really, I'm not good with the phone. I'm still really I'm not good with the phone.

But if I if it's a weak.

Night and I am in bed by ten forty five, like that's my with all my friends, I'm like.

Sorry, it's my curfew.

I have to turn off my phone now and I don't have to fall asleep right then. But if I just need to like start the because I can't just hit the pillow and fall asleep, I need like to lie there for a little bit and decompress.

So I just have my my curfew. And I don't.

Always, you know, I don't always do it, but I really do feel it. So I'm like, okay, guys, sorry, friends, I need my curfew again. No texting ten forty five.

No.

I love that you need to have that in place, So that's good.

Yeah, it makes a huge difference, huge difference.

So let's get into it.

So as a big advocator for like ditching diet culture and getting back in tune with your body and all that sort of thing. I'm probably one of your biggest fans, and I adore your message, and so I want you to tell the listeners what is the fucket diet?

And how did it come about?

So the fucking diet is exactly what it sounds like.

It is an anti diet, though some people are confused and.

They think that.

They're like, oh, is the fucking diet like when you mess up your diet and then you're like fuck it. It's like, well that works because it still brings you know, like people who feel that way still I think I'm talking to them. But my fuck it mentality came after ten years of chronic dieting. Essentially, I was I thought I was a food addict. I thought I was obsessed with food.

So many diet it's so weird.

So many diets have this this weird promise that if you stick to the diet perfectly, it'll heal your cravings. Have you ever heard that it's like like long enough, yes, one per exactly if you do it long enough, and if you do it like with some things, like with when I was a raw vegan, it was all about like if you do if you're one hundred percent raw vegan, you will heal everything and you won't crave.

Cooked food together. It was so like such a cult. It was so weird.

But it's that sort of the cultural dialogue around our hunger and our cravings and food and our bodies. We believe that there is something wrong with us, and if we don't constantly control it, then we're going to spin out of control. And it makes sense too, because that is what we experience. For anyone who's listening who has gone on many diets, you begin to feel more and

I need to diet harder, I need to diet better.

Yeah, it's like this vicious cycle.

It is, it is, and yet and we don't realize that we're perpetuating it with what we think is the cure, and it's just making everything worse and worse. And so when we say, like, you know, I really have no control of the food I have to diet. That's what we've experienced, we really think that that's true. And it seems so scary to let ourselves go there because we're

Never eat too much.

And like it was this kind of like diet obsessive version of intuitive eating. I turned it into a diet. I thought that the only reason that anyone would ever write a book about eating was for the purpose of eating less. So even if the book was give you know, the book does give good advice, I couldn't hear it.

I just couldn't.

And I think a lot of people do a similar thing where they're like, Okay, this is a great idea. I'll eat intuitively and make sure I never eat too much and stay really skinny. And that's still a diet. You know, we're still kind of in that weird restricted.

I was just going to say, it's so funny you say that, because, like I was telling you before, I have an ebook that is all about sort of you know, ditching diet culture intuitive eating. And it's so funny because one of the most sast questions I get with it is is okay, cool, so I can get this a book, I can start intuitive eating And how can I intuitive eat and lose weight?

Yeah?

And you're missing the point here, I know, I know.

But it's like the logical next step, yeah for diet ors. So like, okay, I understand that dieting isn't helping me. I understand these rules are kind of messing up my own hunger fullness. So how can I become perfect at

I only think about food. I'm starving all of the time.

I just binged on disgusting paleo gross like I'm calling them cupcakes but they taste like chalk, Like what.

Am I doing? I've been doing this for ten years.

And the thing that kind of flipped it for me is I was trying to be paleo at the time. And this is over seven years ago at this point, but it was at the end of my like ten year long madness with food, going back and forth and dieting, the binging to dieting and bingeting, thinking I was intuitive eating and going.

On another diet.

I started reading people reading from people in the paleo community or even kind of like the ex paleo community, saying that going low carb messed up their hormones and messed up their metabolism. And I just remember that was a huge light bulb moment for me that I'd never ever ever considered before that my dieting was doing the exact opposite of what I thought it was doing and what I was trying to do, you know, I was trying to be healthy and that was the beginning for me.

I was. Also I went to.

School for a musical theater, so that was sort of my way of being over fixated on being thin and looking a certain way and feeling like it was really important for my career and my destiny or whatever.

And so I.

Deliberately decided to step away from that, at least for a time, you know, back then, because I realized in that moment that what I didn't realize when I tried to be an intuitive eater the first time. I realized that my obsession with being thin and controlling my weight

Why do you think we have this like obsession with trying to fit into one tiny little category of beauty and a way we should look. Like thinking about it, it just makes me so annoyed and so crazy. But it's so true that we all think we should be the certain size and look this certain way. It's yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah it's crazy, but I understand why it's happening because of all of this misinformation. Essentially, like we most of us grow up believing that thin is healthy, the thinner the better, the thinner healthier, and that weight or fatness or being in a bigger body is inherently unhealthy, inherently the cause of the person, like the person's fault, and inherently ugly. That's what we are top, you know. And the more we see that reinforce, the more we believe it.

Actual health way. That body diversity is real, Like it really is real.

And I follow this account now on Instagram called Historical Fat People.

I think that's what it's called.

And it's just pictures of pictures and paintings of fat people, like through time of them, of people being like, look, we're talking about this as if it's this new thing caused by like modern food. Fat people have always existed, always existed. And the fascinating thing is that in the past, the fatter people were believed to be healthier, which is so opposite of what we think now.

Like completely flipped now completely.

Flipped, I mean I think, I mean it's healthier.

And they survived famines, you know, they were like the sturdier stock, you know, and the you know, the people who were really thin and couldn't keep on weight, they were the ones that died in the famine. So and it's not just that, it's that there are scientists who are breaking down these studies and saying, look, they're not accounting for this and that, and they're not talking about

I used to believe that at.

Least I was doing some better than them, right, Like, I'm doing a terrible job of my diet. I am a glutton, I am obsessed with food, but at least I'm able to get it back under control. Meanwhile, it's just lucky I've yo yoed a lot, but I've always yo yoed in a lower weight range, you know, because that's just with my genetics. But yeah, it's crazy misinformation. I'm being really really like, I actually you sent me some awesome questions and I like wrote it everything, and.

I am realizing that I didn't write it. I'm not reading from it at all. I'm like going all over the place right now.

But I love that question that and I couldn't agree more. That's something that I had to do and sort of my process is obviously I live a lot on Instagram, but just following other accounts of different body sizes. Like to me before that, all I followed was one type of girl who was usually white, who was usually.

Usually blonde, because I'm blonde.

And for me it was so like, that's so simple to just follow people with other body types. But for me, I just never did it. So in my head, like you said, like I just wasn't aware. And so that even though that's quite small, that was like a big step and something that I really encourage other people to do as well, just so you realize that even though in the media and society and all that sort of thing, I know, we kind of see one sort of body

You know, it confuses us because then we're just comparing ourselves to that one tiny subset of people.

Exactly.

It's really healing to do what you did and do what you're telling other people to do, is to follow a diverse range of different people.

It's so healing, it really really is.

And even for me, Like, one of the big things I realize is all I used to follow on every social media that I had was just like it was

Yes, but you have to do deliberate work to surround yourself in an anti diet bubble because it also, you know, it still is everywhere. It is on Instagram that you know, diet culture and being obsessed with looks and weight, but it's also everywhere. I mean, it's our you know, our families talk that way, our friends talk that way, random people in the cafe talk that way.

And I do think.

That it's beginning to change in the media a little tiny bit, and I think that that's great, and I think that there's obviously farther to go, but but it's still kind of like, you know, diet culture still rules the day.

So I think also, like you said, a kind of shift I'm noticing is just people being aware, which I kind of feel like is the first step. Like I feel like there's just so many people who aren't even aware what diet culture is sort of thing like that, which is crazy, But it's great that people like we're putting out this message and then people start thinking about about this sort of thing and they can start to sort of slowly shift and change the ways and that

Yes, it's so fascinating. Again, it's this like complete one eedy right. So it's very chemical, actually restricting our food even just a little bit, even just restricting like a teeny bit less than what we need to run our whole body. It raises our grellin, which is the hunger hormone, and it also raises our stress hormones to keep us going, you know, because we don't actually have enough fuel.

We're kind of running on stress hormones.

But the hunger hormone grellin raise lowers our metabolism and actually wires our brains to constantly think about food. And it actually so our hunger hormone is high, which means that we're hungrier and our brain is actually fixating on food. And so then we think, oh my god, what's wrong with me? I have all these cravings like I need to just you know, distract myself or whatever. But it's really genuinely just the body saying, Okay, you're not eating enough.

You need to eat a lot of food.

With the food and it also makes food taste better, so it's it directly leads to a binge. So what we usually do when we're dieting is we're obsessing over food or we're really really hungry, we're fantasizing over food. But then we shut it down. We try to diet harder, we do whatever we can to distract ourselves or to

I absolutely love this because it just makes so much sense because looking back, when I was constantly dieting, all I could think about was food. It was so much like what I'm gonna have, Like at breakfast time, I might actually be thinking about what I'm going to have

And now that.

I intuitively eat, know, don't diet or anything like that. Obviously, I eat when I'm hungry, and I love foods. I love the taste of foods. It's just not a thought that controls my life anymore, and doesn't factly. And I used to be so troubled by this because I used to think, yeah, like what is wrong with me? And like it was such a struggle, And now I just find it so effortless to not because effortless.

That's such a great way of describing it. Mmmmmmm, that it really can be effortless.

Yes, yes, I love that. Thank you for explaining that. I also wanted to ask you, so obviously you said you were a chronic diet if you could tell your previous self, like when you were going through those stages, just like one thing that you wish you knew, just so maybe you know, you could get on this new way of living faster, and that sort of thing, like what would it be.

I think it would be right along the lines of what we were just talking about. I think the thing that really kept me stuck was I believed that I was like a complete monster around food, and.

That that was just the way that I was wired. I am addicted to food.

I just believed that because that's what I that's what I seem to experience. I couldn't stop thinking about food and binging on food. So I would really just want to tell myself to just explain really quickly, it is not you. It is the dieting. This is a vicious cycle. Eating more is actually the thing that's going to get you out.

Of this cycle.

It's so simple, it's so simple, and now you know on the other side, and I'm sure you feel this way too, it's so obvious, like it's it's simple survival.

But in the thick of.

It and hearing all of this, you know, diet drama from everyone else and everyone else talking about their diets and being good and whatever, it feels like this war. If it feels like you're completely fighting your own hunger, and that it's a noble.

Cause, you know, druggle, constant struggle. Yeah, one hundred percent Okay, I love that. Okay, So let's move on and let's talk about the negative side effects and miss information and overall ugly side of diet culture. So tell us, like, what some ways that a diet can fuck up your body? As you would say.

Yeah, and it really does well. First, what it does.

Is it slows down your body. It slows down your metabolism to save your life. I mean, the purpose is to make it so you're able. You're actually sacrificing other parts of your body to focus.

On staying alive.

And that's why you're fixated on food. Your metabolism is lower, your heart rates lower, and you hold on to weight faster in this state too, which is the other thing that makes us believe that we need the diet harder because we believe that we're like that everything's just going to spin out of control. Oh no, I'm gaining weight so quickly. But it's the and you know, we demonize

But that actually sacrifices other parts of you. So, like I said before, you.

Have to run on stress hormones. You have to run on adrenaline and cortisol, which short term, you know, is okay, but long term is really really depleting to your adrenals, your adrenal glands, and also leads to inflammation. Long term, you know, everyone's talking about stress inflammation. Stress really does cause and exacerbate so many health problems.

So it's this heartbreaking.

Thing again because we think we're being so responsible with our dieting and we're actually making things worse in the

You know, oh god, yes, I know. I just want to quickly butt in there.

And I want to add to that because my sort of tipping point with the whole getting over my chronic dieting was I started getting all these health issues. So I started getting adult acne. I was so exhausted all the time, I had really bad mood swings. I lost my period, and so I went to like doctors and a natural path and you know, I thought there was this underlying issue. I must have an immune disease.

Or something like that.

And the thing is, as soon as I just started eating more and exercising less, literally all my health issues disappeared.

Oh my god. Yeah, it's amazing.

And it's obviously it took time and I had to do a lot with my stress and that sort of thing, but it's so simple. But like you said, like it's such a simple act of honor. I'm just dieting. But the issues that can happen because of it, I really like obviously life threatening. But yeah, it's hard because it is it's like this cycle and you don't really understand the whole thing's confusing, and yeah, but it is crazy, the whole thing.

Yeah, And that was the last thing I was going to say is that hormones. And again, I mean that's like stress hormones, and then it messes up our fertility hormones and our thyroid hormones, which leads to another, like a million other health problems. It's literally your body breaking down to keep you alive. And just like what you said, I mean, I last my period two and yet I thought that I I was going to heal my hormones by eating perfectly.

You know what I mean. So it's this weird ome.

Like again, it's this weird cycle where like the whole our whole culture is saying you will be healthier if you can just diet better, when that, for so many of us is actually the biggest problem.

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Oh yeah, that was me. I was completely orthoraxic. Yeah, yeah.

And it's funny because I think it's this weird sort of category where obviously I wasn't underweight enough to go to hospital or the usual signs of an eating disorder, but then I had all these like disordered patterns and behaviors.

But also it was hard because I was.

On social media and a lot of these I'm putting air quotes like healthy habits were encouraged and that sort of thing. So it's like this weird sort of like limbo stage where you're obviously trying to be healthy and trying to do the best for your body, but that's not always the best thing, right. Can you sort of

I experienced the exact same thing.

I was able to sort of hide my own disordered eating from myself by believing that I was just a health not I was just a health enthusiast.

Just focus on health. So I have.

Often compared diets to cults, and I know that that sounds a little bit extreme though, but it's the mentality. It's the mentality around it. And I understand we're all human, we're we're lost, we're searching for, you know, feeling good and feeling responsible and having someone tell us what we're supposed to do, and we want to do our best, we want to take care of ourselves, but we get

They you know, they're I need to convert them or whatever.

It's very but you know, it's very easy to kind of have to go all in because it becomes so all consuming and it becomes so difficult to do, and people really bond over it.

The other interesting thing is, like you talked about good foods and bad foods, but.

If you look at all the different kinds of diets, like every all the different diets have different hierarchy of food, like all the good foods, you know, all foods at.

Some point are in the bad food category, you know.

So it really does become about getting out of that cultish mindset where you're allowing other people to tell you what is good for your body, because they're all going to tell you something different, you know, and it's only us buying in that makes it that much more intense.

So it doesn't really work that way at all. We're actually wired to.

Keep on weight when we're not eating as much. But I think unlearning, like really doing the research to like learn the opposite thing about the food and about this about calories. It really is a lot of unlearning because it's all the beliefs, it's all of the you know, they become subconscious beliefs that we just take as fact. And so there has to be a deliberate unlearning about all these things that have been keeping us stuck.

I love that.

So I guess my sort of question though, is, like you said, unlearning doing your own research. But I guess when you're in this state where you don't want diets and food to consume you. I sort of struggled with this because I was like, you know, I don't want to hear about the paleodet and I don't want to hear about like all this sort of stuff. But I almost, like you said, needed to do the research to be like, no, I don't need to listen to these people.

And that thing.

Do you suggest anything like just completely getting away from I guess it's super hard, but diet culture or like any sort of tips in that direction.

I mean, it really is impossible to get away from diculture.

And you can try, and you can talk to the people in your life and explain what you're learning, what you're doing, and why you don't want to talk about it anymore, and you can, you know, surround your social media with things that are positive. But it is impossible. I really think it's impossible to completely avoid. And that is what makes this so so so hard, because especially for people who are kind of teetering on the edge and want to do it but are so petrified, it's really hard to avoid.

Have you ever read the book Health at Every Size or Body Respect? By chance? No?

I've got Body Respect on my list though, because I heard you talking about it on your podcast, But yeah, do you recommend those? Actually, thinking back, that was a big sort of thing, and my recovery was reading a lot of books. I can't remember the names, but I read a lot of kind of like anti diet books. Yes, yes, do you recommend those books?

I recommend them so much.

And really, because we cannot avoid diet culture. You cannot avoid the people at your work or your family or you know, on television.

It's constant.

So I think we kind of have to combat that by by kind of consuming as much anti diet culture and weight positive and weight neutral content that we possibly can. And again, one of the I think one of the

I mean, for me, that was the way that I did it.

I was like non stop reading about it for probably like two or three years straight.

Honestly.

I love that actually, And I just wanted to butt in and say that if you go to Caroline's website, the fuck It Diet website, she does have a tab full of resources and scientif face research and all that sort of stuff, So definitely have a look there if you want to start unlearning diet culture and all.

That sort of thing.

Yes, So I want to shift gears. I know we sort of touched on this and me and you kind of agree that it's very simple and you just need.

To eat more food.

But I do want to touch on binging again because I feel like it has such a stigma and people are like, oh, but you know then I binge and that sort of thing, And so I want to talk to you you on your sort of recommendations on how do you sort of rebuild healthy relationship with food if you are someone who is in that binging cycle, And do you have any tips for girls who are struggling with that at the moment?

Yes, yes, well again, kind of these myths about binging. We think, or I thought, and I think a lot of people feel like they are one of the only bingers in the world, Like I am a binger. Everyone else can diet and everyone else can eat normally, but I am this like secret monster. And we believe that the binging is the core problem that we need to heal. But binging really genuinely is.

A reactive state.

It's a reactive disorder, and it is a direct response to either physical restriction, so like actually restricting your food, actually eating less, actually not eating enough, or especially after you've been on a couple diets, just the mental part, just the mental restriction or the guilt over eating, or the thought that maybe tomorrow you should go on a diet that can actually affect.

Your hormone levels.

It can actually affect your hunger levels and lead.

To a binge. So I say, you know, binging is a direct response.

To restriction, but it's both actual physical restriction. And then even if you're eating enough, but you're still thinking that you shouldn't be, or that maybe tomorrow you shouldn't be, or that something's got to change, that can put you right back into the binging, which then just like continues the cycle. And I know that this is really you know, it can sound really overwhelming to like, well, how do like,

It's stopped dieting.

But the actual process of stopping dieting, practically for most of us, it comes with a lot of fear and resistance, and so we do need to be prepared to work through those things.

I love that, and I love what you said about you don't fix it in one go. It is this like constant process that you have to work on, and it's okay that it takes time and you know you'll go through different beliefs and that sort of thing. Like, it's not I don't really think there's a quick fix, if that makes sense.

No, because it's so scary for people. And that's why I like to talk about the famine, because if we were in a famine and we weren't in diet culture, and it was two hundred years ago and we had like a really bad winter or something, and we finally had food again, we would be starving and we would eat so much, and everyone would be celebrating how much we were eating, and we would like be tired and like resting and repairing, and we'd gain weight and it

Know, yes, love it, eat all the foods, yes, Okay. So I before you spoke about Health at Every Size, and I was just thinking, that's a new concept that I have been looking into. I honestly hadn't really heard it until maybe like six months ago. And I really would love if you could touch on that and explain that approach.

Yes, oh that's well.

First, I do want to recommend the book Health at Every Size. It's by Linda Bacon, and she's a scientist and she studies weight and health. It's fascinating and it'll do a way better job of explaining all of this, but I will I will give my overview. So basically, it talks about how size diversity is real. So it's counter to this sort of unspoken belief that everyone is

It's not.

Actually true. Size diversity is very real, and we all have weight set ranges. So you and I will yo yo, you know, if we eat a lot of food or restrict a lot of food, we will yo yo in our weight, but it'll be within a small ish range. It'll be a couple sizes up and down, and that's it.

It will be really really hard for us to go up two hundred pounds.

And yet that's all our fear, right, We're like, oh no, I'm just going to keep going and going and going and going. But that's really I mean, unless some like big health thing happens, or a big thyral like something that's kind of more rare, I would say, that's not going to happen to us. You know, we really do yo yo within a range, and so do larger bodied people.

Most of them were.

Bigger as children, and of course they believed that they weren't supposed to be and they probably were put on diets early.

So a lot of them have been dieting their whole lives.

But they've been yoyoing too, and they've been feeling horrible about themselves, believing that it's all their fault.

But they've been yoyoing within a higher range.

And just understanding that we all really do have different places where our body feels safe and is able to be healthy. Now, health at every size doesn't mean that everyone is healthy at every size. That health is something

If they develop an eating disorders, say.

And everyone's praising them and they get down to a lower weight, their health is suffering at that lower weight that might even be higher than you and I, because their body doesn't want to be there, and it's in this crisis state that we'd essentially be talking about this

And you know, slightly tweaked their their habits.

And it really just breaks down the misconceptions that we have currently about weight and health. And again, I've sort of been talking about it this whole time, but it also, you know, it is advocating.

For larger bodied people who are really.

You know, at a disadvantage when they go to the doctor because of all of these beliefs, and it's what's sort of taught in medical school, just sort of like broad strokes about weight and health and these assumptions that you know, these people are going in saying, you know, I have me problems, and instead of just getting the physical therapy exercises that could really help them that they would give to a thinner person, they say, you have to lose weight first, and then we'll talk about what

It's like that can put.

Them into a whole horrible eating cycle and which makes their health even worse and long term, you know, we're not that science really is not supporting that weight long term is really possible for almost anybody that when you actually have a study that looks at it long term, and so if you do, everyone regains weight and more and their health is like worse than they even started. So it's fascinating. I'm actually not an expert on health

You know, that was a great sort of overview. I was actually I can't remember what it was on. I'm exactly like you, but I don't know. It may even being your podcast, But I was listening to something and they were saying it's actually really bad where you know, someone who's in a big up body will have these health issues and the doctors warn't even kind of look

It's heartbreaking, And of course I went to knees when yeah, people go in with lung cancer saying they're short of breath and the doctor says, you need to lose weight, and then they die of lung cancer a couple months later.

How did this happen? You know?

And then and and the answer of how we can begin to change it is just start talking about it, which is what we're doing, which is which is good.

I just also wanted to touch on what you were talking about at the start regards to sort of that

Yeah, it just doesn't help. It only leads to like pain, really.

And so I want to finish off this interview.

Well, like I just want to say so many amazing points in here, but I just want to finish off this interview. So your book is coming out so soon. I think when this episode goes live, it should be kind of out everywhere. So after we finish this question, I'll get you to tell the audience where they can get it and all that good stuff. But I got the first ten pages for free because I'm a big fan.

I was very interested.

Yes, So I do a lot of talk later on in the book about our beliefs, and I've you know, I've been talking about it in this conversation too.

But really, when you get down to it.

We have all of these beliefs that are unhelpful and untrue, and without examining them, they're going.

To rule us.

They completely shade our entire perception of the world, and they actually also affect the way that our body responds to things on a very physical level.

So I talk about that a lot.

I talk about science behind them, but I also I talk a lot in the book about beginning to feel what we have been avoiding feeling.

That's like what comes before the belief.

Section, and how we actually to process a lot of stuck emotion, and that it's kind of similar to our way. I'm going to make this answer way too long, but it's kind of similar to our to our to the way that we approach our hunger. We do the same thing with our emotions. So there's a lot of unfelt emotion that wants to be felt, and it will help us get back into our body, help us be willing to feel what our body feels like and kind of

So I, in my whole healing process, I've really tried to figure out the easiest way for me to begin to, like in bite sized chunks, just begin to process all the pain and disco and suffering that you know that humans experience and then aren't equipped to feel.

And then how can I kind of bottle that up in a way that is really really applicable and doable and just one foot in front of the other, put it in the book and give people little tools to help them begin to release the stuff. That's kind of like running the show. So that was a really roundabout way of answering your question. But it's hard because that's the last tool, and like all the tools before that kind of like build onto each other to create the

So I'm excited. I'm really excited.

That's amazing. I love that.

So let's finish off, and I just want to thank you so much for coming onto my podcast. I have enjoyed this conversation so much, and I just want you to let the audience know where they can get your book, where they can find you, where they can follow you, and all that good stuff.

My website is the Fucketdiet dot com, exactly what it sounds like on Instagram. I'm at the Fucker Diet and my book is coming and I'm assuming that your people everyone will be listening to this after it comes out. But my book is coming out March twenty first in the UK and Australia.

It took me so long to figure.

Out when it was going because it's so confusing because I think Australia's Amazon, Amazon Australia, I don't even know what it's going on, but the US version of the book before I had a UK book deal, so it's selling that. I was so confused. But basically you should be able by the time you're listening to this. You can buy the book in Australia on Amazon or book Topia. There's an audiobook and there's a kindle so you can

Fix the whatever.

So if that happened, hopefully that'll be all fixed by the time anyone's listening to this.

But you can just search my name.

Yeah, I will link all this in our show notes guys.

Sojo yay.

Wonderful. Yeah, So that's it. The Fucking Die dot Com.

You so much. It has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show.

It was so fun. Thank you so much for reaching out and for chatting with me. I've loved it.

No problem at all. Okay, I'll talk to you later.

Thanks Caroline, Thank you so much for listening in. If you like this episode, make sure you subscribe to the Rise and Cocer podcast so you don't miss the next one. Also, if you found this podcast valuable, it would mean the absolute world to me if you.

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At Georgie Stevenson.

I hope you have an amazing day or night whenever you are listening in Bye for now, and I'll talk to you soon