I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners on which this episode is being recorded, the combo marry people. We pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. Today, I'm your host, Georgie Stevenson, and this is the Rise
and Conquer Podcast. This is the podcast where we ch have mindset, self development and becoming your higher self mix soon with a lot of laughs, plus behind the scenes of my life running two businesses and being among Think of us as the perfect combo of brunch with your besties mixed with self development. No matter where you are in your journey, we're here to help you be curious,
pull yourself out and embrace radical self awareness. If you're ready to get into the driver's seat of your own life and stop letting life cast you by, then you're in the right place. We're back, r and C fam Hello, dear turn on your mind. Sorry guys, we are back and so excited to be back in your ears. So you may have noticed, but we've got a bit of a refresh for the podcast. I personally think it looks amazing because you like created it to us. I also
personally think it looks great. No guys, So we reached ten million downloads. This was a huge milestone for us, and so we thought, we're taking it to the next level. We're refreshing the podcast. You know, we're really embonding what we preach on here, and it involved a bit of a refresh. And also we have a very excit series starting on Friday. And that told you it is allowed to say, I Tea, let's just tell them. You're so tight lipped on this, I know. So basically, yes, we've
got a very exciting series starting Friday. This is what all the mysteriousness has been about. But today we're easing back into it and we have a beautiful Oh my god, I'm obsessed with this interviewer, Tea. It was literally perfect, Like I I was listening back with my mouth open, like, so many golden nuggets here, so many good points. Today
we are chatting with Holly Azo Party. She is the author of the book The People pleas As Guide to Putting Yourself First, and so we're chatting about selfishness, setting boundaries, the concept of hyper availability. Basically, if you're someone who you potentially could be a bit of a people please aren't and you I will just say no, or you just feel guilty when you put yourself first. This episode
is going to blow your mind. I just I loved the bit where we spoke about language and how like if you actually look at what word selfishness means, like we're not being selfish our self first, And that was just such a big aha moment for me personally. I also loved when you guys spoke about hyper availability because I think it's something I hadn't thought about before, but it was a pressure I put on myself, Yeah, to
be available to everyone at any time. Yeah, And I am always like the friend that like if someone messages me, I'm going to pick up my phone and respond, even if I'm literally get off your phone. She's like, hang on, Georgie, I've just gotta put through this. Sure. It's actually more like when I'm going to bed and you're like about to go to sleep and then you get a message
and you're like, oh, better just reply. They like emotionally dump on you or like they do something, or even if it's just like hey, I want to have a chat and I'm like I'm okay, I'm so tired. But okay, oh I love that. That's such a good ahat moment. So I loved that chat in there too. This episode
is honestly amazing, guys. And if I will be honest with you, I didn't consider myself a people pleaser, but after reading Holly's book, I did realize I had some tendencies and things that especially as a mother as a wife, you just think, oh, it's normal, I should just do these things. But this book really makes you think twice. And Holly just explains it so beautifully, and she articulates
everything so beautifully. Yeah, and I think if you do enjoy this interview, I would recommend getting the book to read because I also wouldn't have said that I'm the biggest people pleaser, but after reading the book, I was like, oh, yes, I don't know that was Yeah, that was me to honestly get your hands on the book. Guys, before we get into the show, to here a quick little life update. What have you been doing all the week off? Oh, even though you've been working, but just had a party
the whole week. No, nothing crazy, just working, going to the gym. I went to see Hamilton the Musical. So any Brisbane galleyes that you loved it. I loved it. I'm obsessed with it. I think it's best. And also me and a Tear are both seeing Harry Styles tonight, and I'm so excited for Harry Styles. So excited to see Harry. I've been listening to his music all like time and like all the live shows and just like I can't wait to be that. Oh, I can't wait.
It seem so funny. I've actually never been to a concert really, like I've been to a YouTube concert with my parents, but like when I was sixteen, I've never been to a concert like when I'm older. Oh my gosh, you're gonna love it. I've been to festivals. I've never been to festival, so that's like, I'm sure they're similar. Yeah, very I would say very similar, just people aren't as drunk. Interesting, So I can't wait. But yeah. I also had a
really beautiful weekend with my husband. We went to housing and house at Cabareta and it looked beautiful on the weekend, IV free and it was so good for it was really good just for us. I think when you have a child, you like your relationship is like the first thing you kind of like shelf because like will me personally like me and team's relationship feels so solid, it's so easy to just like put it to the side. Yeah, it's like it's fine, it's always going to be there.
But this weekend really made me have a big think about, like, you know what we talk about on this podcast, like if I want an extraordinary life, if I want an extraordinary relationship with my husband, like I do need to put in the work and effort and I do need to prioritize it. So I'm really really happy we did that for us and we had some really beautiful conversations and yeah, it was incredible. I love that. Yeah, I think like we both are like, oh, we need to
do this more. So it's like it was a really big goal. How often are you going to do it? Well, we actually have things booked in every single month. Sometimes it does sometimes it does include IVY, but we also are doing the date night. But it's just more when we are we actually do have some goals. A big thing for us is we want to do one day on the weekend no phones, just us time literally putting phones in the drawer. And then also eight pm every night we have an alarm that goes off that says
phones away, connection time. So I will let you know.
Yeah, you'll have to.
I'd love to know how the no phones day goes, Yeah, because that's what the biggest thing that comes in between me and Tim connecting is obviously Ivy. But then when Ivy's not there, it's like I'm catching up on emails or he's like fucking watching golf or some shit, and just like because you're so like zoned from the day, you just want to like zone out. And we've noticed that's such a huge, like huge barrier. Yeah, that's what we're working on. I love that. So yeah, anyway, let's
get into the podcast. But how's the book launch going.
Oh my god, it's surreal. It's just surreal. Like I can't believe people have it in their homes and you're holding it right now, you know what I mean.
I got a physical boy book. I know it's cool.
Hey, yeah, it feels good. It's amazing that it's out now.
I was just talking to my producer, a Tia because she's read it as well, and she's like, I loved it so much. The only thing is she didn't want to write in the book to do the active piece. So she's like, I need to reread it and like do the activities over here because it's so pretty.
Thank you. I actually can't even take credit for the design that was like the publishers. But I know of people who have bought two copies, one to write in and one could just pa us their nice coffee. So you know, if there's that idea, and I'm not going to compline of people of buying multiple coffees as well.
Yeah, you're like, look, it's fine, I get esthetic exactly. No, that is so so amazing. I am honestly just so happy for you. I'm proud of you. It's really incredible. I appreciate it and like, you know, putting yourself first, like this is such.
An important issue.
And it's funny because I've been going a lot of things, going through a couple of things with people pleasing, with just the thought of I haven't I feel like I've never put myself in the box of I'm a people pleaser.
But then as I was, you know, reading the book, and as I get older, I feel like, oh wow, I realized I do still need stronger boundaries and I do still need to you know, think about these things because much like you're say in the book of just like, we don't even realize that's what we're doing.
And it's like, I think there's this stereotype of what a people pleaser is, which is, you know, the pushover or the person in never speaks up for themselves or never chooses themselves. And that's like any stereotype, the extreme version. But you look at especially for me personally, I look at the women in my life, you know, my mother and my grandmother's and the archetype of you know, you always put the family first and you always do all
the things. It's just such a societal expectation. And then you look at that and you go hand in a second.
But why yeah, you don't even second guess it because it literally just feels like, oh, I'm a mother of course, if that makes sense exactly.
So it's been an interesting one because I wrote the book Pregnant I wasn't a mother yet, and then I edited now in the baby stage, and I was like, I actually need to learn from the maiden version of me, Like this is really confronting, but it helped me through that newborn stage in becoming a mother, because I was putting all the activities into practice and discovering myself again, which was really amazing, so so incredible.
I can imagine that being such a yeah, really raw and you know, amazing time to then edit the book when you are a new mum for sure. Sorry I've just gone straight into it, but I will hear this, so guys, sorry, let's backtrack. Holy welcome to the RNC podcast.
Honestly, I was like, are we Are we straight in? Because I can I can put my podcast now.
I love this. Thanks for having me, guys. Me and Holly are are always in each other's DM so you just got a taste of us just catching up. Yes, but Holly, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you on here today and really unpack your new book, people please as guide to putting yourself first. It's just it's so incredible. I've read it at Reddit Jamie's reddit, and like I said before, you should just be so proud.
But can you give the audience a little rundown of who you are, what you do, and how this amazing piece of art came to life.
Thank you, Thank you for referring to it as a piece of art.
That's so kind of art.
So yes, my name's Holly. At this phase of my life, I find myself really hard to define what I'm doing and who I am and like you and the reason that we slide into each other's dms. We became mothers I think, three weeks apart from each other to our little girls. So the last year in my life has
been navigating new motherhood. But underneath all of that, I am a writer and writing a book has been my biggest vision and dream since I was, you know, five years old, though this book has been a long time coming. And in addition to that, I am an intuitive reader and astrologer, and I mentor and guide people in the space of living their best life, but with the focus
on spirituality and personal development. So what you'll find in this book is, yeah, a culmination of my teachings when it comes to choosing you in your life no matter what you're navigating. I guess practices that I use to help people come back to themselves.
So incredible. Can I just say, when you know Ivy was a newborn and I was going through a really tough time, reading your posts on Instagram honestly got me through because I felt so seen and I felt so you know, hearing another mother's raw and real thoughts in those moments where I felt really alone and really confused, and you know, as you know, it's such a whole new journey and it ripped your heart open best way possible.
But reading your words and really sitting with them was honestly the most incredible and comforting thing that got me through my newborn journey.
Oh I can't handle that. Oh you'll get me crying big. No, truly, Gal, I feel the same about you. I was, you know, constantly reaching out because I feel like we did traverse such similar experiences, especially you know, through our breastfeeding experiences and all of it. Really, I know our labors went similar ways, and I found comforting a lot of what you shared, So I feel like it was a very
mutual experience. It's just so nice to have some face to face time with you after that year that's just been Yeah, I know, isn't it.
I can't believe it's been over a year now, Like, is that not just wild to think this time? You know, last year we were in the trenches and then yeah.
I had that realization on the weekend I was like a year ago today, my little girl was two months old. I was like, no, I don't even know, like if I was, I just want to give that version to me the biggest hug and be like, I promise it will be okay, because I remember at that stage I was like have I what have I done?
Like what I.
I'm not going to be able to get through this. So it was it was not an enjoyable time for me. So how nice to be on the other side of that.
I know, I feel the exact same way, Like I look back at memories, you know, how your phone pops up this time last year sort of things, and I look back and I was like, yeah, I wish I could just tell that Georgie of like it's okay and breathe, embrace the chaos, like you're going to get through this. And I think also during that time, like it does feel very bleak in the way of it's so it's so all encompassing and so opposite to how you just lived your life, and it's so soon and it's like
a shock to the body. And I go back and hug her and be like, it's okay, it's gonna be amazing and it just gets better.
It just gets better every day, especially this stage I'm finding and I know we're just chatting about that. It's like I'm looking at her outside now and she's toddling around and taking in the world, and to see the developmental changes and to be a part of that just feels like biggest privileged. So it's very nice to be on the other end of that, that newborn those newborn days, for sure, I know.
And yeah, if anyone, if you're listening to this and you're going through something similar, just know, yeah, it gets better and you're literally doing amazing at whatever capacity you're doing. But let's get into the book. I I just I loved this book so much. I felt like you were calling me out personally.
It was like I feel lastly attacked, but in a great way where I was like, this is so good.
I'm having to look at myself and I truly believe the best pieces of you know, reading content for me is thought provoking around like, yeah, let's actually unpack this
and look at this. So first of all, I would love for you to, you know, talk to my community just a bit about how as a type a high achiever, you know, you made this change from you know, a high paying, queste unquote successful corporate job to what actually fulfilled you and what that journey looked like, because I very much resonate with the high achiever and being in that realm and completely shifting it. And I just think it's your journey is so incredible.
Thanks Gal, Yeah, look for me. It's such an interesting one because all of it has been self imposed. I didn't come from a family of parents who were like, you must work a corporate job and you know, go and study after you after school. That was all me.
And initially I have a journalism degree, so I thought I'd end up in print publications, but it was around the time that print was dwindling away, and so what ended up happening was I took the first job that the twenty one year old version of me thought was a real job, quote unquote, which was just so honestly, it was like I was blindfolded and I was like that one, and I ended up in strategic marketing. Had never studied marketing my life, had never studied bizz, studied
business strategy in my life. Was like I can wing this, and five years into it, probably three years into it to be honest, my soul was like, what are you doing, Holly? Like this is not you. You're sitting at a partition desk. You are. I was becoming really unwell physically and mentally. It was just everything was pulling away in terms of my physical health and my mental health. I was so unhappy. I ended up crying every day on the bus into
my job and back. And yet I didn't do anything to change because I was telling myself, you know, who am I to have a different life? Like what makes me special? And I didn't even know what I wanted. I knew, I knew I wanted to write a book one day, but I didn't know how I would get there. And even I guess I didn't see the value or
worth in me and what I had to share. And so it really took me smacking my face on bottom, as you read about in the book for me to wake up and go, I can't continue to live like this because I literally just won't be able to continue in this way. And from there it was like a massive redirection into well, what actually makes me feel good? And what are the things that light me up and what brings me join my life? And that doesn't need
to make me money right away. I ended up moving back in with my in laws at the time, and you know, to save money on rent, and I went back into retail, which was.
Like shattering to the ego after my degree and five years working with ASX listed companies and then there I am in my local shopping center with people from school walking.
Past, and I'm like, I swear I'm going to make something of myself one day.
You just wait.
But it really was a mass crumbling away of everything I thought I should have achieved in my life to okay, no, what actually feels good and then rebuilding my life from that place.
Yeah, so incredible. And isn't it so interesting that you often have to get to that you know, rock bottom and that pinnacle point to go to.
My actually doing here and yeah, yeah, like what It's really funny about the picking the job because I was much the same, like I just randomly picked things, and it was it's very much the energy of just like whoever will have me.
Take what I can get, exactly take what I can get, and then you, yeah, get in it and you're like, oh, no, wow, I really need to yeh, actually be deciding what I want to do. I love in the book that you really talk about, you know, values, and I'm sure that's something that is really strong for you now, but I'm
sure at some point it wasn't. I would love for you to just give some insight of you know, how you have reframed your values and I guess even just decided on what are integral to you in your life.
Yeah. So I think what it took was me having everything fall away to be forced to face, Okay, well what how do I want my life to look? Do I want it to feel? And it wasn't necessarily sitting down and doing a values based exercise like you'll find in the book. It was more. I remember I was still working my corporate job, but I took my journal
out and this was totally like channeled, unprompted. I was like, I'm just going to write my dream day and I'm just going to be as specific as possible with no job title in my mind. I'm literally going to write. I wrote things like I can sleep until I wake comfortably and I start my day with yoga by the beach, you know, as an example, or I could I remember I was where I wrote I can wear my spell jumpsuit for the day, like not corporate, like that was like a pinnacle thing.
You know.
My day was spent reading and writing and creating. I just wrote all of these things down without knowing what it would look like, and within two years I could tick every single one of those things off in the life I had created for myself. So when it came to the values, the first thing I had to focus on were the feelings that I was seeking in my life.
And with everything I had listed, there were feelings like freedom and flexibility in my days, and rest and well being and nourishment and connection with my now husband, he was my boyfriend at the time, and so there were these threads that I was starting to pull out, and they were beginning to make this tapestry that now only you know. I wrote that list probably eight years ago, and two years into it I could tick them all off, and now I'm just constantly adding to this tapestry that
is my life. So yes, I could rally off my five values, which I love, kindness, spirituality, well being, and connection, but it's also so much more than that. There's a nuance between it all, which is how do I feel each day? And I'm if I'm pursuing the feelings that make me feel good for the most part, then I'm happy with how I'm living my days.
I love that so much because often you know, when you do say you know, you've got to live up to your values. Some people can be like it's like it almost sounds like a bit mundane. But if you talk about in the way of like, what are the themes you want in your life? Like, I love how
you spoke about that. And it's really funny because much the same as you of when I was working my corporate law job and I would be on the bus, That's when I used to journal, and I would journal like my perfect today, and that's what I would do. And again I had like there was no actual job in it. But it's just like I would have these themes of freedom, flexibility, yeah, well being like all so much the same that I love it. It's so incredible
mirrors our mirrors. I love that so much. I also something I loved the book because I feel like it was something running in my head and you just define it so well. So the concept of martyrdom, which is often you know when women they have to, you know, fall in the trap of doing everything for everyone, and I feel like I had this in my head and then I read in the book. I was like, there's an actual term. This is amazing.
Oh yeah, martyrdom is huge and you know what it's so it was uncomfortable for me to read back as a new mother who was in the trenches of martyrdom, because I like the pre motherhood version of me was calling myself out. And I tell you what, there was actually this really awkward phase where I was editing the book, going okay, but this isn't talking about new mums, because that's all well and good for you to say, childless Holly.
But you know, I fully triggered myself. But then I sat with it and I went, no, actually, there's so much validity in it. Why do we need to repeat the patterns of you know, our mothers and their mothers of this, you know, almost victim mind set around the world is on the way to the world is on my shoulders and no one can help me. And that's what I feel is the basis for martyrdom is not
accepting help and not asking for help. And it's something that's really humbling, especially when you transition into something like motherhood, But it doesn't have to be motherhood. It could be any life transition where you realize you actually don't have to do it on your own and you can ask for help. And what role are you playing in creating that martyrdom complex where you're not asking for help and you're feeling like you have to do it all on
your own. And that was where I had to lovingly call myself into Holly, where do you actually need help right now? And you know that's in a multitude of ways. That could be more kinesiology sessions or sitting down with a talk therapist, or that could literally me my mom doesn't live close but ringing her and saying, Mom, I need you to come up for two weeks because I'm struggling at the moment.
You know.
So that when we're living from a place of martyrdom, that's when we're more inclined to put other people before ourselves because already we're running on empty, we're not choosing ourselves. When we're asking for help and accepting help, we're going to feel more nourished and more overflowing, so that then we can give to others from a place of yeah fulfilm in and overflow and also know when to say no, Actually, I've got enough on my plate right now, and I'm looking after me.
I love it so much. And I was actually having a conversation with my girlfriend on the weekend, and you know, she was saying how she really wanted some more help with her girls and so sad her mom, you know, passed away when she was a teenager. So that was atn Avenue. But her partner's mom didn't really offer too much.
And that's what I said to her. I was like, well, you've got to ask, and like, you know, because I think she had asked a couple of times and she was busy, and I'm like, yeah, you've got to keep asking or You've got to then be like all right, well then are you free you know this day and really just like plug it in and take that. You know, I want to use the word like responsibility of I
do need help and I am going to ask. And then after our conversation, afters we you know, w always reflect and have some takeaways and she's like, yeah, and I am going to ask for more help because like I'm not going to keep sitting in this. Yeah, very victim of poor me and then I'm so stressed, and then I get angry at my husband and this and this and this.
Sousa, Yeah, exactly right, exactly, And we've got to almost like eradicate this burden mentality we have around asking for help, because you know what, when there's someone in my life that comes to me and asks for help, when I'm feeling fulfilled in my life, of course, like I want to help my friends, I want to help my family. Like it's not like I'm going to go absolutely not like I'm never going to be available to help. People for the most part want to. But we're not mind readers.
And I think that that's where a lot of the kind people please a complex can come in, where we expect people to know what we need and know what we want, but we haven't actually claimed it. So we're just expecting them to know because it's what we're experiencing. But a lot of the time people are so preoccupied with their own lives they forget, We forget to check in, we forget to follow up, we forget to ask if you need to help. We've got to take that initial start.
And it's funny. Just one more point on that, I was having another conversation with a girlfriend and again you know, in the motherhood realm, and she was saying, she's got over a beautiful eight month old, so she you know,
she's still kind of in those trenches. And she was just going through a bit of a phase where she felt like she had no her time, and you know, it was kind of she was kind of saying, oh, but she wished her partner gave her, I guess more permission and was like, you should go to the gym,
you should do this. And I kind of turned around and gave her some like, you know, really beautiful tough love, and I said, why does he have to say that to you, Like he he's probably dealing with new fatherhood, like he's in his own mind so you know, wrapped up and it's not me taking sights or anything. But I was like, you need to advocate for yourself and take away this guilt of because I said, I used
to feel it too. And I had the exact same thoughts with Tim where I was, you know, work back working full time doing IVY when I got home and then I had you know, no weekends and no time for myself, and then I wanted him to be like maybe you should go and do this. And then it wasn't until I took the step and was like, oh, no, I need to do this to myself and I don't need him to give me permission, and I'm just gonna ask him. And then it felt like a weight lifted off both our shoulders.
Because you're also then giving tim and like for me with Trent, it's the same when we choose ourselves, we're giving them permission to choose themselves. So it actually took Trent a long time to follow suit. I've been pretty good in saying I need my time and this is how it's going to look for me. But for Trenny, he was really taking it on as his responsibility was to just be on it in dad mode or work mode all the time. And he got to breaking point and I said, you've got to choose you. I can't
choose you for you, but I don't want happening. Yeah, I want you to choose you because you're you're the better version of yourself when you do, and we all benefit. So it's been in necessary shift and a really powerful one in our family dynamic to see as well.
M I love that and yeah, I just the whole thing of like not giving someone else your power, of them having to give you permission was a huge shift for me. And once she realized that too, she was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I was doing that.
So just take your power back. It's the most liberating feeling.
Yes.
And then also a part I loved in your book. I just i'd never like unpacked it this way, but you spoke about selfish stories and like reframing what selfish means to us. Can you share on this?
Yeah, So I pulled the actual dictionary meaning of selfishness and capture that in the b And because a big objection that I see when it comes to, you know, choosing yourself and putting yourself first, is well, that makes me selfish. And it's like, okay, well let's unpack what selfishness actually means. I'm big on words and their meaning because words shape lives. Like we use our words, that
creates our reality. And so the definition of selfish alludes to at the cost of someone else, like with ill intent, with malice. So you're doing something and you're going out of your way to basically mess with another person when you're choosing yourself you know, when you're saying no, I can't help because my cup isn't I need to fill myself up, that's actually not selfishness.
It's not you're not doing that to.
Hurt another person. Although it might make other people uncomfortable, that's not your intent. You're choosing you for you. And I think when we start to unravel from these stories and these objections and actually look at them plain as day. There are a few of them in the book, I speak about using the word mpath as almost like escape goat to your people pleasing behaviors. It's like, no, let's look at what these words actually mean and call ourselves
out on misusing them. So you're putting yourself first. Doesn't define you as selfish unless you're putting yourself first to upset other people, which just won't happen. It's just not unless you're crazy, Like it's just not gonna happen.
Where's you're a psychopath? I loved this so much, and again it was like so liberating, and I think it is so important to really check in with the language we're using. So I love that you touched on that, and even again, like I went through this weird stage where I felt like I couldn't do anything for myself on the weekends, and I felt really selfish because you know, I worked during the week and then the weekends was for Ivy. But if I did something for myself up,
I was like, oh, but it's selfish. And literally that part of the book completely called me out, and I was like, there is no me going to get a massage on Sunday. There's no ill attent intent. Sorry, and like Ivy's at home with Tim, her you know, favorite person, So there's there's nothing but luck here, Like why would
I do that? And then be you know, resentful, be like I've got no time, or feel really like low in myself, And it's yeah, giving yourself that permission, being like, no, that's not even in my vocab, it's not even in my voecab.
And it's it's just an opportunity to redefine what you make words mean versus what they actually mean, which is huge. And yeah, Ivy's probably having the best time ever and doesn't even realize, like I know, my little girl's the same thing. Doesn't even care when I leave and I come back and I'm more present with her. She's got the flame player outside, but that's okay. Dad's with her like carrying out.
There, right.
No, I am more present with her when I've gone for the massage, when I've sat in the tea ceremony, when I've sat with my journal, and everyone benefits. I'm nicer to Trent, I'm nicer to our dogs. Like everyone wins include.
Me, you know, so important. That was just like that was a huge moment for me in the book, and since then, it's actually funny, I've been really auditing like my language and how I speak, with my internal dialogue because it's not like I was going around calling myself selfish. It was internal. But yeah, once I actually checked, I was like, oh wow, that's no, we're not doing this right.
And then if we're if we are doing that, then we're also and I touch on this in the book, the lowest vibrations, right that we can emulate our shame and guilt. So we're calling ourselves selfish, we're feeling shameful about that, and we're feeling guilty, and so they are the vibrations we're carrying around day to day, week to week, month to month. No wonder we feel tired, No wonder we feel resemble no wonder we think the world's out to get us, because that is what we're perpetuating in
our lives. And it doesn't mean that we don't have those moments. We're human. But exactly what you're doing, Georgie, you're catching yourself in those moments now and going, Okay, I'm choosing something else, even in the discomfort of that, knowing the ripple effects that will have on you and your family.
Yeah, and just yeah, I love that you said that, because I do want to completely promise that with saying I still get those moments and I still you know, feel those feelings, but then in that moment, I'm going, oh, I know what's happening here, awareness, and I'm choosing a new story, And yeah, I'm not staying in that frequency exactly right.
And I even say this at the end of the book. It's like, I still relate to being a people pleaser, not as anywhere near as much as I used to, by the way, But it's not something that goes away entirely. It's just something we're constantly working toward. And awareness is key. If we can catch ourselves out more frequently in the ingrained behaviors and the societal expectations that are placed on
us and choose ourselves anyway. Then we'll find that those choices are going to be less intense and less parder for our nervous system to handle. They'll become more easeful.
Huge moment. I would love to talk about again something that you know, you call in the book energetic hytiene and how we can really identify like energetic exhaustion and those sorts of things, because again I was like, oh, this is such an amazing concept where where you understand it, you're able to navigate this.
Yes, so, and this is why you know, it's a book on people pleasing, but there's a chapter on energy and there's a chapter on intuition because it's so part
of it. And energy for me is well for everyone, it's everything firstly, But when it comes to people pleasing behaviors, if we are acting from a place of disconnect with our own energetic well being and our relationship with our energy center, then we are more inclined to choose other people before ourselves because what we're saying in those choices is, well, what you need from me is more important than what
I need from me. So it's really key that we get clear on when we're doing that, and we get clear on that by deciphering when our energy is running low. And I take you through a process in the book where you can start to get clear on what your energetic yes is and what your energetic no is, and when you're acting from that place of no, you're more likely to feel a spiral in your energetic well being. And I go through you know, all sorts of symptoms and ways that this can show up for me personally.
If I've said yes to I don't know, a catch up with someone that I know actually really drains my energy. Hello people, pleaser, I know that I'll start to feel like more lethargic in my body. My limbs will feel heavy, I'll probably get a niggle in my throat. My body's sending me all the signs that's off I am. Yeah, I'm probably talking faster than I usually do. I'm less grounded. And once you become aware of those things, you can identify, Okay,
my energy is way off in this decision. Let's use some energetic hygiene techniques to get back into a place of clear energy so that I'm making choices from that place it's honestly such a game changer, Georgie, not just when it comes to putting yourself first and people pleasing, but literally to how you live your life. If you have a deep knowing of your energetic well being and how to bring yourself into energetic alignment, everything shifts like game changer.
And like, could you give us an example of like a tactic you will do?
Yeah, so something that and I run through these in the book as well. I'm big on support from energetic practitioners, so it's not just me. I do know how to do things like self muscle testing, which is what kinesiologists use, and I can clear myself, but I actually prefer to book in for a reiki session see a kinesiologist. You know, I've got all the mists, I've got the smoking tools
and eldging tools. I meditate every day. All of those are my foundational tools for energetic alignment, like my non negotiables, definitely metation, definitely some sort of sprits and missed. But getting that additional support from practitioners outside of just me has been paramount when it comes to my own energetic hygiene and how I look after myself in that way.
I love that so much. I've actually recently been getting a weekly massage which she always finishes with some energy healing and life changing life Jay. It was like, how have I never done this before? And it's so incredible. I always leave like a lighter, amazing, just feeling so good, just going back on like the energetic hygiene. I love this so much because I had this huge aha moment last year where like a key thing that happened last year was because I knew and I'm a control break.
I knew like most people listening to this podcast, because I knew how you know the year was going to go in regards to not knowing because I was a new mum. I then went and planned all these work things so I could know exactly what was going to happen in work. So reflecting it was my way of coping with not knowing how motherhood was going to go, because at least I knew how my work year was going to go.
If that makes sense death, it does.
And I didn't realize this until the end of last year, but then something happened towards you and I realized this and I was like, Okay, next year's going to be different. I'm not going to book things in I need to surrender more. It's not a vibe. And then one last thing happened where I said yes to and you know, a situation that I really did not want to but it was a people pleasing, loved this person sort of situation.
Even saying it, I knew energetically it was like it was screaming no, and then I said yes, I still went. And I remember that day no joke.
Like.
Was a basket case to be you know, like energetically, I remember waking up and just crying to Tim and feeling so angry at myself, so drained, so defeated, so not integral with who I was, and just completely like my body was just screaming at me like how you wow totally And that's when I was like, no, twenty twenty three is the year of And I told, you know, my team, I told everyone, if it's not a hell yes, it's no, like we're not doing that because I could
just feel like such a lag of all the things that I said yes to when I did not check in with myself, and yeah, it was it was this overwhelming feeling like I everyone was against me and the world was so heavy in all these things, and as soon as I like left that in last year, this year has just felt so different and just so high.
Yes, yeah, exactly. Well it's that culmination of say, like your shoulds versus your wants, which I talk about oh I should do that versus I really want to do that, and then your life force is just completely sapped and every time you're saying yes when you want to be saying no, there's there goes more of your life force until exactly what happened to you happen where you've just got nothing left to give and you're forced to pick
up your pieces again. So yeah, I'm glad it's feeling light for you this year, and definitely the same thing for me happened, and I'm this year feels so different.
Yeah, sometimes you need those moments to be like oh wait home, Yeah exactly, I remember again home, Okay, I'm back and again. Well, let's let's switch gears and really get into like I feel like everyone who is a people pleaser, this is a huge and probably the most important thing. Let's talk boundaries.
Oh yeah, yeah, how do we create boundaries?
How do we stick to them?
Tell us? Oh my gosh, it is the hardest pieces. Why it's the last chapter in the book, and do you know what's really hectic. I don't know if you've spoken to anyone else who's written book like in this way. But what happens is the book initiates you. So you can't just write the thing in the book and then be like, I don't need to do that because you
know whatever, I'll just teach it. The book goes, oh, you're talking about boundaries, Well, let's start to bring some experiences into your life where you have to put what you wrote into practice. So last year for me, it was like solid boundary overload. I feel like I've graduated boundary school for behaviors. But one analogy that I use in the book, and it's a really good one, is
the analogy around the keys to your home. And so if you consider your energy and access to your energy as if it were your home, you are not going to go around and give every single person that you meet in your life a key to the front door. It's crazy and ludicrous and unsafe. So the same goes for access to you and your time and your energy, your friendship, whatever that thing is. To assert boundaries first you've got to get clear on who has access to
all of you and who doesn't. And it's kind of like a phasing out, and there's a tiered phase that can happen where you know there are going to be people in your life that have access to parts of
your life, but not all of them. There are going to be people in your life that don't have access to any of those parts, and boundaries for me are now around where do those access points come in and how do I lovingly create very clear understanding with people in my life what they do and don't have access to.
So some examples are, you know, I have an out of office on my email that shares all of the ways that people can get in touch with me, but also that I am a stay at home mum as well, and so they're not going to get a twenty four hour response time for me. Like, hyper availability is a huge overriding of boundaries. If we're constantly in our DMS replying to every message that comes through. Whether you have a big community or not, it could just be your
friends in the WhatsApp group. If we're hyper available and picking our phone up every second something's coming through, we're not creating boundaries around our accessibility and so I mean, there's incredible functions on our phones that are like the focus mode and do not disturb in all of those things, but even down to really clearly expressing to people in our lives. There are some examples in the book, like a friend contacting me and saying, do you have the
bandwidth for an emotional vent right now? And if you don't, saying no, like it's literally ugly, No, I actually don't, but I'll call you at a time that feels good house next week. You know, I'm also really good And no, everyone's not going to agree with this, but I flag phone calls like my dad could be calling me, and I'll look at it and go, I just don't have the capacity for that call right now. I'll send them a text and give him a call back in a
day or two. You know, it's and everyone's boundaries are going to be different. The first point is getting clear on what feels good for you and then actually communicating it, which is the hardest piece when it comes to you know, there are going to be some potentially challenging conversations when you're showing up with someone in a new way and saying, you know, I'm actually not available for that. If they're used to your hyper availability, there's going to be a
tension point. But that's where changes create it. And there's that quote. What is it. It's something like, the people who aren't appreciative of your new boundaries are the people that were taking advantage of them in the first place. So for the most part, in the implementation of these new boundaries in my life, I haven't actually lost any friends or family or loved ones. Mostly everyone's gone, oh cool, I'm going to start to implement these in my life
as well. So it's a case of being the example a bit too.
I love it so much, and I think it was really beautiful for me to read that in the book, because like even that word of like accessibility, I think
is sometimes you just you don't think about it. And it's funny because I used to have some weird feelings around the fact that I, you know, I was that friend who wouldn't get back to you for a couple of days, or I would screen my parents' calls or like, you know, different stuff like that, and it was I kind of wore a bit of you know, shame around that because it was I was so busy, but I was also really good with my boundaries of this is actually not you know what I can do right now,
so I'll take you back in a couple of days. No one was really you know, I guess modeling that for me. So it always felt like, you know, I was like, you know, a bitch, or I'm too important for them, or like you know, these weird things that I would then have to you know, reshape it in my mind. So you know, when I was reading this chapter, I was like, oh my god, this is you know, I've I've been doing this for quite a while, and I think so many people can benefit in not being
accessible all the time. Like it's impossible, you say that, Yeah, yeah, this is no wonder.
We're all burned out and on like magnesium supplements through the roof because we're just not We're not How can we possibly wind down if we're constantly available. It's just impossible to keep up with Yeah.
Yeah, and that's even like I have this new thing that I'm doing on my emails where I look at my emails for an hour max, you know, every day or every day or two, and it's a designated spot in my calendar and I go through, I flag I FAWD, and then that's it. I'm not checking my emails. Like just because you sent me an email, a text or call me because you know you want something or you
know whatever, that doesn't mean yeah, I'm available. And I think when you put those boundaries in and you stick to them, it feels really good because a lot of the time, too, I realize how much time I was wasting, you know, just checking emails or deleting emails or doing these things where I was making myself accessible and almost like you know, a slave to my inbox, where I was like, this actually is not productive or important and I don't have to be available twenty four hours exactly.
And I think the discomfort also comes from the fact that it's societally expected for us to be in this backlog of emails and to be constantly available, and because that's how the majority live. I remember there was a little instamm doing the rounds last year that was around someone's out of office that was like, I only access
my emails between these times. And it can almost have that eye roll effect where people are like, oh, it's nice for some, but it's like, but what would it be like if that was actually something that you could start to implement, how would that change your day? How would that change your nervous system? And what example is that setting for the people receiving that as a result, And it's only going to be positive. We're going to
be more present as well. That's the other thing. Like my people in my life know if I've answered their call, they're getting all of me. They're not getting a destructive may, not getting a me quickly squeezing it in. It's like Holly's here because she's got the energy in the time to have this conversation. And what a nice example to set for the people in your life to know that you know, yeah, I know.
I was having a convo with my girlfriend because she's like, She's like, it's so weird because you only ever text me late at night. But then like I see you on social media all day, like are you ignoring me through the day? And I was like, oh no, My assistant posts my social media posts during the day that I have prepared earlier, and then I on you look at my personal text messages at night because that's when
I actually have time for you. I'm not going to look at your beautiful personal message during the day between meetings, get distracted and not give you my energy. I'm gonna wait for a time where I actually can give you that love and energy that you deserve. So that's why I text you late at night, like it's you know, what you see on social media is not necessarily your accessibility, if that makes sense.
One hundred percent. It's you choosing when you are focused and present. And I mean, gal, there are days weeks that I go by not replying to a friend, and it is around this. It's a reconstruction of that high per availability concept because we're all burning ourselves out with this expectation. And I know, on the receiving end, if it takes a friend for the most part, you know, give or take. If it takes a friend a few days to reply, I'm not batting an eyelid because I've
got life going on anyway, you know. So yeah, it's like I've got things. Oh cool, you forgot to reply. That's fine, it's all good. And if we can start to develop that in our friendships more, oh my gosh, the pressure, but it will alleviate. My favorite friendships are the ones where it's like, oh, it's been a couple of weeks, it's like, oh, it's all good. Life happens,
you know, no expectation. It feels like it's just a settling in the nervous system when you're not showing up for that place of expectation and urgency as opposed to when you have the space to be fully present and with them. Yeah, it's huge.
And then even going back to you know, people pleasing and their boundaries of even me and my best friend were chatting about last year, we probably only saw each other maybe three times in the whole year where it was a one on one situation, and that was because you know, it's that friendship where it is very deep and it is very you know connecting, and if I did not have the capacity for it, I would just
be like, look, I just need it. And I also know my energy gets recharged by myself, so I'd be like, look, I just need some time by myself. Let's rain check. And she had no worries with that. And it's not like we felt like our friendship you know, wasn't strong. It was stronger than ever. But it's like those three days were so you know, impactful, and we were so there and we're so connected. That's so much more important than you know, you know, five to fifteen I just random frantic visits, if.
That one percent. And there is a chapter on friendships and connection in the book as well as a whole section on it where it's it is this piece around what friendships grow and evolve with you as you grow and evolve, as you implement these boundaries, as you make these choices, and you know, we come from this mentality of friends forever, and that's just not the case, and that it doesn't mean that there needs to be constant conflict or falling out. It's just that I talk about
it in the book. You know, who are your seasons, who are your reasons, and who are your lifetimes? And how can you grow and evolve with each of those with a real love and reverence for every person that's shown up in your life. But also the expectation that we place on people to be there for us all the time is what fuels that people pleasing behavior, because it's like, well, why didn't you choose me when I
needed you? And perhaps that person was choosing themselves. And it's an alleviation of I write in the book that expectation is important because it does at times lead to disappointment. But disappointment is important because when we're looking at our friendships, then we can go, Okay, why am I feeling disappointed? And wasn't an expectation that was unfair that I was placing on this friendship all this person or is there
a values mismatch here? And maybe it's time to lovingly create some distance in that connection.
Wow, that is so powerful and I even love like that's something you've got to check in and that's something you've got to like order and have a look at, because otherwise you are going to have Yeah, like you said, like a mismatch, and I think it's really beautiful in the book, how you do describe like there are friends where it's just a season And I think also, you know, I know in the book you were saying, like your lifelong friends, what do you call them? Lifers?
Life is yeah?
Life, Your life is like I have life of friends. We're still we we have seasons where we don't see each other and it's it's fine. There's not literally something.
We're neutral. We're neutral. That's my favorite Georgie, because it's like when you patch up you get the connection, you get, you receive it, and then you know most of my we moved up to the Northern Rivers after born and raised Sydney, right, so I've been up here two and
a half years. I was pregnant during COVID and none of my best friends saw me pregnant, none of them because they were all in Sydney, and so there, you know, I haven't seen my favorite people in the world majority of pregnancy in new motherhood, and yet we're still as solid as ever because we have that foundation of oh,
we're in this life like it's a given. There's no expectations in terms of hyper availability, and when we do see each other, it's like we cry and it's the most beautiful connection and I get feel from that, and then you know, I've got new connection up here, which is also amazing and feels a different desire that I have in terms of community, and we really do need to get here on not placing the expectation that every friend is everything for us and actually having the friends
that feel certain components of our lives in different ways. It becomes a lot easier that way.
Oh Holly, this has just been the most amazing chat you completely fill up my car, Like I just feel so warm and fuzzy after this conversation, and I bet my community does as well. So thank you so much for giving us so much information and helping us, you know, really be a bit stronger in our boundaries and realize where we can, you know, maybe stop people pleasing and really lock in how we can do things for ourselves. I appreciate it.
Oh, thank you for having me. It's been so so nice to chat.
Before you go, though, two quick questions. This is who I ask all my guests. So what is the best advice you have ever received?
I feel like it's not even going to be a surprise now, but it's from my parents, and it is just do what makes you happy. And they've always said that since I was little, little little, There's been never any expectation on a certain career or a certain way that I live my life. It's what makes you happy, as long as you're a kind person, do that, and that has definitely been what's led me down the path that I'm at today. It's very very grateful for that advice.
They are going to be shook by the way that I reference them. They're going to be like, we gave you the best advice, but it's true, it's true. Just do what makes you happy. Yeah, follow happiness.
That is incredible. Oh my god, they sound so sweet. And my last question, I feel like I don't need to, you know, explain this to you, but what is a core belief that you hold close to your heart that has really been techral with who you are?
So my very first vision board I created, I was sixteen, so that's almost almost twenty years ago, ik and on it in the center was a quote that I lived my life by to this day, and it's by Laotsu and the quote is the journey of one thousand miles begins with a single step. And that has been a reference point that I come back to consistently, like not even just annually, it's like every moment, it's what is one step I can take in my journey that's leading
me down the path that I desire to walk. And when I look back on that sixteen year old version of me that placed that quote on her first vision board, it's like all of those incremental steps I've taken since them have led me down the most incredible path. Imagine where I'm going to be twenty years from now, following that quote at the forefront. So it's definitely a core belief that's held me strong in yeah, walking the way that I do today.
Oh, oh my god, that is incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. And where can everyone find you? Where can they get the book?
All the things? Oh? Thanks Gal. Well, I'm definitely most active over on Insta, so you can follow me Holly underscore as a party and you can find the book. It's very it's like very surreal. But you can find it in any of your favorite bookstores. It's on book Topia, it's in Kmart, it's in Big w and it'll stand out because it's bright orange and pink and yellow and all of the fun colors. So yeah, you can check it out. It's all R and c's favorite colors. I'm on brand. I love it.
You're so brand for this interview, Holly. Thank you so much. Guys, make sure you go check out the book by it. It's honestly incredible. It's such an amazing read. And thank you so much, Holly. It has been such a pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Georgie, thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Rise and Conker Podcast. If you enjoyed it and want more, come connect with us on Instagram at Riseinconquer dot podcast and join our Facebook discussion group, a Rise and Concer podcast community. We're an independent podcast and we have a small team, so we do appreciate your
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