What's up, everyone? I'm Nora Princiati. And I'm Nathan Hubbard. And we're coming in like a wrecking ball to announce a brand new series. That's right. It's every single album, Miley Cyrus. Deep dive with us into the career of one of our most creative and confounding pop stars. We're starting, of course, with the best of Hannah Montana.
And ending with her brand new album, Something Beautiful, in June. And don't forget about Miley Cyrus and her dead pets. We certainly will not be doing that. So listen now on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Cold open question of the week, Kaz. What up, shows? I'm going to borrow this question from our super producer, Brian H. Waters, who just DM me about this one.
See, there's a fan who's suing the NFL for $100 million because of the emotional damage of Shadour Sanders sliding in the draft. I did see this, yes. This is a great question. What wrestling event booking decision? Gave you so much emotional distress that you wanted to sue WWE or WCW or AEW or ECW. Oh, wow. That is an awesome, awesome called open question of the week. Brian, I hope you have an answer too. This is your question.
i've got plenty okay so I gotta tie it into like my actual no uh no connection to the podcast world no connection to the wrestling world fandom aside so all my moments are like pre 2009 let's say it's for safety's sake Definitely Triple H beating Booker T at WrestleMania 19. That's the top. That is the top. of the it was so that moment as a wrestling fan as a booker t fan and a wrestling fan was so traumatic to me that I legitimately contemplated and stopped watching wrestling for a long time.
I've said this a lot of times and I guess it's a testament to how good of a heel he was but like I was not a fan of Triple H growing up I thought he was just Thought he was just the guy that was there because bigger guys weren't there and they kept trying to convince me how great he is and he's the game and he's this and he's that and my brain i mean i'm evolved now as a wrestling figure but back then
I'm like, no, this guy isn't it. And then on top of that, you go up against Booker T, a guy who I loved his end of WCW run. I thought the WCW invasion wasn't going to be a bit. He was the first big dude. From WCW like over the line so I'm like okay like now it's gonna really feel like you know These WCW guys are really gonna have a moment Not to just get beat by pedigree, but the slow-ass crawl over to the cover
made me legitimately sick to my stomach as a kid. That was tough. That was tough. What if I... It would be a great bit for me if I just always went to bat for that booking decision. Every time it came up, I was like, no, they made the right call, man. Ultimately, you know, that Booker T never really turned out to do much, you know? Yeah, that was really rough.
That was really rough. I think I've talked about, I know I've talked about this before in different ways, but you know, like, You know, like, when you, um... we're really going astray here you know like have you ever gone to therapy and you like uncover some stuff from your child it's not even like the super traumatic stuff but you like realize why you feel the way you do and it just like your brain explodes a breakthrough moment
yeah yeah just like it's just like oh yeah yeah they they did give me mac and cheese every time after a fight or something and then it was just like You started and started watching and went down a rabbit hole some time ago and started watching a bunch of kevin sullivan florida championship wrestling stuff And I realized that all of the, like, scared, the frightened child feelings about pro wrestling that I have are all from him.
and it's not no not the lead not the dungeon of doom this is before this is the uh no it's the army of darkness when you had like purple haze and this is like back in the early 80s i was like so i would have been like six five or six we're like vacationing at like a friend's condo in tampa
And we did it every summer, like three or four years in a row. And every time, no matter where I was, visiting my grandparents like on vacation whatever i always somehow got my hand on the tv listings in the newspaper and figured out when wrestling was on like the moment we touched down so i was so i remember like my parents were unpacking the car and i was already watching florida championship wrestling Of course, in my head, it's all just rust.
Like, I don't know. I'm not separating. No territories. None of that stuff. Dude, down there in Florida. And they would always show, like, highlight packages and shit. It was like, Kevin Sullivan was, like, hanging dudes. He was, like, fireballing spikes to the eyes. Like, there was...
rubbing like blinding green goo in people's face like it was it was scary scary especially as a kid and i think the worst part about it is i didn't i wasn't watching it like week in and week out i would just watch i would drop in and watch for like a week
And so I just saw these great moments of horror without getting the payoff when like Dusty Rhodes beat him at the pay-per-view or whatever, you know? So it's like the unresolved. So all the memories of Florida Championship Wrestling and Kevin Sullivan is just like all of like the worst.
Scary how do you want like eight? I mean, yeah, I was like between five and eight like forever experience Not as you bring it up. I probably got to change my head The moment that I got to sue for emotional distress was the time that The Undertaker Put a spell on the Ultimate Warrior. No, Papa Shango. Papa Shango. And made him spit up the black goo. And made him spit up the vegetable soup. And Ultimate Warrior's like, I must have been like,
five or four years old. I was very young when I saw that. And the only thing I saw of the Ultimate War is being like the coolest wrestler in the world, right? Like clearly we grew up and things changed. But four-year-old me thought Ultimate Warrior was literally Superman. And watching him just throw up black goo after, you know.
the godfather starts going also nightmare fuel for at least four years of my life when you're a little kid throwing up is also terrifying just yourself throwing up like my little one like get has gotten sick Every time it's just like When he's done, he'll just come and fall on your arms and just say, Daddy promised me that'll never happen again. Son, we'll talk about this when we go to college. Yeah, exactly. It's going to happen again. But yeah, just the terror.
that was that was scary i mean it was silly but it was but yeah a lot of that stuff a lot of that wrestle crap stuff We need to fully acknowledge how powerful it was at the time, even though it was ridiculous in retrospect. I was this macho man getting bit by the snake. I think I was a little too old for that. for that to really frighten me i was still definitely afraid of snakes until i was like 25 years old because of that i was still thinking just in general
Macho Man is going to die. He's going to die on TV. Say it was because of, say you had a phobia because of that and now you can really sue WWE. There you go. There you go. My knowledge of snakes wasn't that big. I think you get bit by a snake, you die. Things get into your body and your body just decompresses in like three seconds and then you just, you know.
That's not totally wrong. Depends on the snake, you know. You gotta bring back snakes. Snakes and de-venomized snakes. I thought all snakes bite to kill. That's all I thought. That's what they're trying to do. You're not wrong about the snakes. I mean, come on. We need more snakes in pro wrestling. Not without. I guess for your sake, I guess not. Alright, well, I guess we've established wrestling is a very terrifying place.
Not just for the fans, for the wrestlers too, but anyway. We have a lot to discuss. We got Backlash this weekend. We had Dynamite last night. And we got Knicks to talk about, baby. I know we're going to get a whole lot of Celtics stuff in this network, but we talk about some Knicks too, okay? I'm balancing it out for you Ringer listeners, all right? I'm balancing it out. There's no shortage.
I don't know what time it is, man. Alright, we'll do that too. We'll give Cass the platform. Anyway, let's start the show. Good is an understatement. David, I'm marvelous this morning. You deleted all the audio of you questioning the... They got three more picks for all I care. Say it with me, Dave. On three. One, two, three. Fuck those pics. Fuck them!
I've been cursing a lot today. I'm sorry because I listened, but it is orange and blue skies in New York. No, I'm not just kidding. I apologize for the parents who tried to listen in their car and now they're just locked off. I'm sorry, but listen, Dave. I know people that listen to this show are gonna listen to a lot of things happening on this network Especially from our all-powerful boss my man bill the legendary bill But on today, on this Thursday, babe.
The Boston Celtics and their entire fanbase Can eat it. My heart. AEW Dynamite fans, you're probably going to hate me a little bit today too. I watched the show. I watched a good amount of it, but boy, I'll tell you. I was not locked in, man. It was a mix. Yeah, that's fair. I caught up, though. I caught up, though. I'm a big proponent of wrestling fans having other things in their life, so I cannot fault you for that. That's it. Anybody who listens to the show.
And you know how much I love me some AEW Dynamite. You know I love it. The Knicks take precedent at that time. But we will get into it. We will get into it. But man, that was all I was thinking during, you know, that big comeback. I'm like... The AEW fans who love this show are going to be mad at me tomorrow because... Well, the AEW fans should appreciate that they got a great pro wrestling storyline in the Knicks game. I mean, that was our comeback.
oh my gosh it is that was it was it was not realistic like it did not feel cinema is what the kids say I know how crazy these playoffs have been, and I have been adjusting my viewership accordingly. I'm not dipping out on games or whatever.
but there was something about that, like 11 point lead going into the third quarter, whatever it was. And I was just like, yeah, I mean, this is, this is just slow and steady. Like the Celtics have this. I was so sure. And when the Knicks are coming back, I was just like, Uh-oh. It's on. Like, it just as soon as they closed it within 10. You want a wrestling reference? You know why? You know why I never felt comfortable with that 11-point lead?
because there's one word to describe the Boston Celtics, and I'm going to spell it out for you. Oh, my God. S-A-W-F-T. The only thing that worries me is the arena which you are going over the top right now. That's it. I'll be over the top. I'll be over the top, Dave. The arrogance, the arrogance of which Boston Celtics fans carry themselves, not just throughout the regular season, but throughout these playoffs already.
You all deserve this. You deserve this glow. You deserve that pit in your stomach feeling that you have knowing that this next game, these next two games in Madison Square Garden are going to be the most The toughest games. of your fandom. Okay. Dave, I don't want to group chat, you know.
out in your group chats, but please tell me you were on any Bill group chats last night. Please tell me. No, no, no. I'm not part of the Celtics intersection. I forgot you were on a foot phone, too. That's another thing. No, I just don't. Bill's got different group chats for everything. Mmm, I would pay I would pay Mercedes Monet money to be in the bill simmons group chat last whatever they're paying for mercedes to do those meet and greets those like fine or whatever it is i would pay that much
To be on a Bill Simmons group chat last night, boy. Man. Delicious. The job's not done. Game's Saturday. Still got to handle business. But man. To answer your question, Dave, I feel great. Alright. I feel great.
well we got this tape here for when the next crater over the next two next three games and you better hope so dude that's all i'm saying this is bad if you think this is gloating well wait here's another here's another question for you uh what wrestler has have you What wrestler have you been such a big fan of at any point in your life that people looked at you a little sideways the way that I'm looking at you right now? Oh, man. Man, that's a good question.
Because I have an answer to this, by the way. But I'm going to make you figure it out. Did you see someone just posted this? Yeah. I think WrestleSeek. I can only assume it's true. They're verified. Oh, no, no. This is just from WWE Shop, so I assume it is true. The top five best-selling apparel items on WWE Shop.
Do you know what it is? Do you want to get Brian to know? I can do it. Don't look it up. Don't look it up. I'm not looking right now. I know number three. I know number three. For sure. So who would you think would be on? johnson your guess huh john cena yes cm punk no no cm punk in the top five of this moment go on jails though nope Wow. Naomi? Nope. Cody Rhodes? No, Cody, weirdly. Wow. Right there. Come on, Brian, your favorite wrestler. Oh, Roman. Roman. John Cena.
john cena roman reigns i'll give you randy orton because he has a sweet hoodie as a number five number one Joe Hendry, his wrestling shirt. Normally, that would be the news item that I'd be trying to squeeze out of this. But number three, my guy Karrion Kross. That's what I saw. I love that. Did you see that documentary that he seemingly self-funded about his WrestleMania week?
I saw that. If you go to the Karrion Kross YouTube channel, you're going to watch the whole thing. It's fantastic. I don't even think this is not a party of one anymore. I think... I think Carrion Cross Island is getting too bustling and busy even for me. Yeah.
But yeah, there's definitely been some cute moments where my fandom of Karrion Kross got me the side eye. But now look at you. You're looking made in the shade. Is there a guy more... primed for a big 2025 than carrying across like as far as from where he was no and i think and i think that when you look at again it's not necessarily long some of his long-term planning some of it's just to get back
It does feel like that at the end, WWE creative was like, we're not making space for people on the WrestleMania card. Like, there's no reason to cram somebody in at the last second just to have them do a run-in. We're just going to give it back to them tenfold over the next six months, right? You saw Sami Zayn is now the number one contender. Well, number one contender. He's the top rival to Seth Rollins. Right? I mean, he's in the position to have this huge role.
Basically taking Roman Reigns' spot in the storyline. And I think Kieran Cross might get some of that too. I think when the time comes, I think it's going to be... Yeah, that's the crazy thing about it, right? Like he has this, you know, you compare him to Sami Zayn, the guy who's essentially a main eventer on Raw.
and somebody's primed for a big sort of run and karen cross really hasn't done anything really he wrestled like one match on tv last year i mean he's wrestling a couple of matches here and there but his buzz is sort of like undeniable right now just from his ability to like i mean you know you gotta give props to I guess whoever's back there and creative but like waving him into all these stories as sort of like this devil on your shoulder for all the baby faces of the past
Two years, three years now? Mm-hmm. I don't know if it's incredible creative and lots of patience or just the opportunity and the time sort of meeting each other at the moment where it's like, Now there is a space wrestlemania is over usually when you talk about timing the best timing for uh you know somebody to really
Get their bearings as far as I guess becoming a star just having to run is usually right after WrestleMania That's why people always so hyped for that raw after WrestleMania It always feels like a season premiere feels like new opportunities fresh start all that type of stuff And all this time, Karen Cross has been building this momentum. to kind of be one of those guys and I think it all sort of culminated.
being on raw recap of Meg and Sam and he goes on that sort of like that crazy promo yeah pipe bomb promo sort of and lets people have it and speaks for the wrestling fan and the best thing about it is that like he's not really a heel or a face He's not really anything. He's just carrying a cross and people just are into him. Just a man with a great head of hair. Yeah. Like there's, You know sometimes I feel like
It's very easy to get behind certain people because of their positioning, which I always say. And like, whether you're a heel or a face, it usually makes it real easy. But there's that third spot where it's just like, you're not even a heel or a face. You're just you. And people are just really into you.
Karen cross kind of finds himself in that spot right now now where they sort of use this as far as merchant youtube doc and the clips and you know the easter eggs being laid out throughout these promos like how do they use that to sort of like Locking on something on TV or locking on a few or locking on something that's really meaningful. I don't know. I mean money in the bank is next month. There's always that sort of ground to be like all right now's our time to like
put our eggs behind this guy or make somebody or put them on the road to be made or something like that. So money in the bank's right around the corner. It's going to be really interesting to see what they do with him because I feel like they can't sort of ignore this.
Well, okay, yes. First of all, I agree. Second of all, I don't think they want to ignore it. I mean, the pipe bomb was 100%. I mean... it's a plan it's a ww production yeah they wanted it out clearly yeah and so that was a little bit of like oh we're not gonna have you on the card but we're gonna let you do this cool thing right um and being the i mean listen it's not every day that a dude that looks like
a wrestler from her childhood that has like the gimmick and the build gets put in the position of being the underdog. The plucky underdog, right? Yeah, the fans clamoring for more time on TV guy. The role of Bryan Danielson doesn't usually look like that. the role of zach right now playing the role of daniel bryan uh this crazy with a Jesse Ventura impression. Brazilian jiu-jitsu master. Yeah. With a hot wife. I don't know.
Yeah. The hot wife might be the most damning thing. You're right to mention that. Everybody somehow sees themselves in him despite... You know how upset I was when he grew his hair out and it turned out he had a full head of hair. I mean, he doesn't worry about leaving the fans behind. No, not at all. You can't worry about that. Yeah. He's got a... It's... Okay. All that being said, man, like...
i'm really interested in seeing like how they're gonna utilize him because you're right like he's not built like the fan-picked favorite, you know? He's not built like the Zack Ryders or the Bryan Danielsons or like the Kofi Kingstons or like the people that like the fans just sort of get by. Even LA Knight to a lesser extent, right? Like LA Knight. even though he has sort of been this established guy.
It always seemed like just put a microphone in his hand you're gonna be entertained Karen cross is an underdog for so many other reasons that aren't physical That it's gonna be really interesting to see how they use them they put them in a meaningful feud or put them in a meaningful match and how that's booked. Well, I think that's it. I mean, frankly, when you like, when everybody in your team gets released except for you,
it does sort of raise the level of intrigue a little bit, right? It's just, you know, it's not like L.A. Night, where L.A. Night, where everyone was just like, just let him do his thing. With Karrion Kross, they've canceled his gimmick, it seems like, a couple of times. They keep messing around with him. There's some people certainly saying, let him go be NXT, Karrion Kross, get out of his way. you know, but it's not like, it's weird. He's kind of as the spooky metaphysical gimmick.
But now we're getting to know him as a person. It's the dude that we're actually rooting for. And sometimes just keeping somebody out of the ring, you can't do this with everybody. but i think if he had had like five matches in the past year instead of one
we would be talking about him in a totally different way. You know, it's like, it's really like, he's just like, you can say, even though he's been super involved, you can, it's easy to make the case. Look at the stats. They're not giving him a chance. You know? I don't know. I think it's been.
it'll be very interesting because he's still like a sort of, I hope they let him do his sort of jujitsu-y blood sport shit in the ring because he does need a little bit more flavor in there, especially if he's going to be hanging with like the top, top dudes. Yeah. But I've always enjoyed his room work, man. I know I'm not. I'm... sometimes you know not as popular an opinion with him but i've said it before i think he wrestles like like
There's an intelligence to his wrestling that I've always appreciated, even if he's not doing backflips and shit. He also got dealt a pretty weird hand, too, man. He came into NXT at such a... to kill your time That one. He was almost set up to fail a little bit. I keep saying it, man. Everybody who came into WWE with the rap of being a surefire WWE guy, Vince is going to love this guy. Awesome theory. Almost all of them fail.
you know all those dudes who like worked in ring of honor and other indies is like you know doing the rob van dam monday night messiah type gimmicks it's like just because they're jacked or whatever like it doesn't work you know like it just doesn't translate And it's not as much of a layup, I think, as a lot of people obviously think it is. But yeah, he had a... Yeah.
Just because you're like 6'3 and muscly does not mean that you get like a free pass to the main event. Now being the other end of the spectrum might keep you out of the main event. But I'm talking about old WWE here. But yeah, it's... dude he's had he had a weird career don't forget the mask remember the demolition mask you try to forget it that's the yeah that's it i'm in the middle of a lawsuit with wwe over the pain and suffering that mask
caused. But yeah, hopefully this will be a big Karrion Kross here. Before we get to the Backlash Productions I want to hit a little bit on the show that you don't even act like you watch, that you're watching. Jalen Brunson flopping last night. Don't you start with the Brunson flopping, okay? The man is an ethical... Listen, I'm a wrestling fan. I know a back bump when I see one.
No, I did catch some dynamite, but to say I saw a lie would be a complete lie. Even on the small screen, it was just background noise. I went back a lot. yeah i always do that too if i'm trying to watch two things at once when one of them is wrestling and i'm like i'll just put it on the other screen or i have it on my laptop and i'm watching this you know whatever and i know i literally it's harder for me to watch
But you intend to watch. Yeah, no, it's like I can't even watch one thing if I'm trying to watch two things. I don't even remember any of it when I'm done. Well, I'm like watching them at the same time, but it's like a competition for... who ends up on the big screen. Your love and attention? Yeah, it's like they're both competing for my attention. Your love for Bruv didn't draw your eyes away from the basketball game? Like the Will Ospreay hangman promo?
Got big screen treatment last night. I was like, oh, okay. I've seen all these clips with Will Ospreay online. I really enjoyed that promo for a lot of reasons. I only have a couple of nits to pick. I'll pick them. well i mean my main thing is i don't understand how It's like every interaction with Karrion Kross turns you into a heel. That's the sort of thing. It's like every promo... If you touch...
Hey, man, Adam Page, do you get the I look like I'm wearing a wig disease from him? Because Bruv was rocking something weird last night. And they're coming from the hair I don't think I don't think you of all people But yeah, no, it was really good. And I like that. Listen, the line that keeps getting repeated was obviously canned. I don't have any problem with it at all. The thing about this isn't about your.
what is it vindication this is my this is your redemption this is my ascension yeah yeah put that on a t-shirt no and it was great because It's AEW. It doesn't always strike the right tone when they try to shoot a little bit in the promos. This was exactly right. I mean, just bullseye. This is exactly the conversation that fans are having. We've had it on this show. Which win is more valuable to the company, to the wrestlers involved, whatever. And.
he just made the case for himself. Like, no one cares that you're finishing the story here, dude. Like, what's more important is that I'm taking over the industry.
Yeah. And it's legit. Like, it's a very legitimate argument. It's the argument we had on this show. That's what I mean. We were just like, hey, is Is AEW going to be in a better place if they finally complete the hangman adam page reclamation project that seems to be uh seems i've been going on ever since his first title run and the cm punk of it all Or is it more important for AEW to be like, we have the best wrestler on earth.
He has to be the champ. I don't know. I don't know what you do. I don't know what you, if you believe he's the best wrestler on earth is up to you completely. But. AEW fans certainly believe it and the audience certainly sees it. He's clearly the most over guy in the company. He's clearly the most popular guy in the company and he's clearly... Has the best matches in the company. So for a company like AEW, you would think of Will Ospreay since the day he signed.
would be an eventual world champion. And the O2 Arena being after All In doesn't really hurt. The Deathriders thing and Moxley and the Osprey not really crossing paths yet doesn't really hurt. But at the same time... Hangman's still going through this in their crisis.
About the things he's had to do to get himself back to being that guy have moxley and osprey not crossed paths is that like an obvious thing that i should be that we should be talking about i don't think so i mean maybe like in some ape mans or whatever but like during the death riders thing i can't
clearly remember like an Osprey Moxley face-off where it's like oh they're about to go the way that you said it made me think this is a thing that like fans have been talking about that I don't I mean it is it would be To me, and I'm not just talking about that ascension line, the backstage thing with Renee afterwards, it felt like the beginning of a heel turn.
For Osprey. For Osprey. Really? I don't think that's what they were trying to project. I just think two steps ahead, it wouldn't shock me if that's where they were going. Now the O2 thing, you know... maybe makes that less likely. But I think for the purposes of this match, For Brev versus Hangman, I think Brev is working heel.
I don't know. Just in terms of what we see in the ring. Now, I don't know if he has the ability to fully work Yael with his ring style, but that felt like the look there, and it wouldn't shock me. If that's, I mean, I know Hangman's a little bit more obvious, but someone's sort of got to heal it and, you know, be a little heal in the match. I don't think they do.
I don't think they do. Traditionally, they do. You're right. In AEW, they certainly don't. They have an opportunity to do what Probably should have been done at WrestleMania with Cody and Cena. Have them both be like have a good match have a good match have my fans deserve That's that was funny. I mean the build up Dave like instead of turning him a hill and having the hill run lead up to the mat
Have them both sort of, you know, if someone's going to eventually lean heel, it should happen in the middle of that match. But I don't think they are because... The prize at the end of the tunnel is Jon Moxley. Yeah, and you can't have somebody even win the belt and then turn heel because they... Exactly.
The point is the vindication that comes from it. The happy ending and beating Moxley and opening that briefcase and getting that title, that is the goal. That should be the final visual and all in time.
like opening that briefcase and oh my god we finally see the title You can't do that when I hear- can osprey can osprey win and then join up with the death writers and that'll be just a crazy end of the show moment i mean if they just want me to never watch the show again we don't need any more we don't need any more gotcha heel turns all right like sometimes these guys have never interacted i don't know if that's even true
I mean, they haven't interacted in a sense because Will Ospreay's never really interacted with the world champion except Swerve. And that was like, you know, a test of like, you're good, but you're not ready for this level yet.
sort of match and and you know that's why i say that i mean i think they've done a good job of positioning both osprey and hangman as people who need this Not just for their characters, but they're both positioned as like... guys who you would see be the person to crack open that suitcase and
Osprey did a great job in our promo of reminding people like he's kind of the Cody Rhodes of a... Yes. Okay, so I'm glad that you said that because Part of what makes him, I mean, frankly, part of what's working for him is this sort of effortless cool that comes with everybody realizing that you're going to be a made man and there's no reason to push.
yeah right it's like like nobody's nobody is mad that osprey at any point is not the world champion because everybody knows he's going to be the world champion probably within the next six months right but but regardless even if it's 18 months from now he's already the top of his game he's already regarded as one of the best in the world And especially by Kaz. Yeah, I'll give it all. But I do think that there's an effortless cool that comes with that, right? It's like...
The most attractive person at the bar is the one that knows that they could get anybody, right? I mean, it's just sitting back there and they're just like just having their drink and they're like, I'm not working here, man. It's the swag of the uncrowned champion, man. Exactly. But the problem with that is you occasionally do have to remind people. That you're like a main event player.
I'm not just going to be doing exhibition matches that get five stars in a steel cage every pay-per-view. You've got to remember that I'm a top guy. And that's what he did last night. And he really accomplished it, I think, really well. I, you know, I get a little bit of anxiety when we talk about it, when you just call them like the best wrestler in the world or whatever, like, because
I think ever since Kenny came back, I'm like, I'm not quite sure he's been eliminated from this conversation in an appropriate way. Although I kind of think that everybody would agree.
And listen, wrestling is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately business. I don't even think the wrestlers themselves would take offense to somebody saying, you know well he's the best in the world because i've seen more of his best in the world matches over the past x number of months or whatever right um but but it is weird we're like we're all sort of saying oh yeah he's the best and it's just like
Brian Curtis co-host of the Press Box with me and longtime friend used to always joke, remember when Michael Johnson With the Olympic runner. was out there baylor a train at baylor university second bears the gold nikes man can't forget those yeah but they would always call him the fastest man in the world and brian would just be like i just want to point out that i was never eliminated from this competition
I would just like to point out that Kenny Omega has never been eliminated from the best in the world conversation, despite being the previous champion, right? I mean, despite being the title. So anyway, somebody was saying the other day, you watched Monday Night Raw, I assume. There were no Knicks games. Was there a Knicks game on Monday night? There was. Did you watch the main event of Monday Night Raw? Seth Rollins versus Jey Uso. Maybe, no, definitely Jey Uso's best singles match ever.
Wow. Okay, alright, I'll give you that. It was a hell of a mess. If you would ask me going into Raw, if you would ask me right before the match took off, if there was any way... Jay and Gunther at WrestleMania wasn't nothing to sneeze at either. No, no, no, no. But I just think this one was significant. It was better. It was noticeably better.
If you would ask me before this match if there was any way that Seth would win, I would say like a .02% chance. Like, you're not going to trick me with this one. Nope. But man, once that match started going, once they guys started getting into the false finishes, I would have believed that Seth Rollins could have win so many. Like it was, and that's the mark in so many ways of a good match. It had me totally eating out of the palm of that match's hand. And it was a very, very good match.
I bring this up because there's certainly a feeling that Seth Rollins... Maybe this is just me. It feels like Seth Rollins really gets some personal satisfaction out of giving best matches ever to people who aren't necessarily like... widely regarded as the best battle machine. Yep, yep, okay. That's why I knew I wasn't going to get tricked. That's why I wasn't going to get tricked. Because that's just that damn good. Seth Rollins doesn't get enough credit.
As far as greater wrestling. I think Jey Uso wrestled a hell of a match. I think Jey Uso is a great wrestler. Match is a very good wrestler. I think he's a great wrestler. I think the stuff that he does. as far as getting you to believe in those matches is as good as anybody, right? And you're always, and I always say this,
It takes two to tango. But you cannot convince me that Seth Rollins didn't take a little bit of a... straw poll of what the internet marks were saying i'm not just about jay uso but about his reign and being like oh how many redditors out there was like, all right, we'll have Jey Uso win that WrestleMania, but then he could lose the next night on the WrestleMania or all that stuff. So as soon as they made the match,
And they said it was tonight. I was like, Seth Rollins, you're at it again, Chief. You're not going to fool me this time. But they did a damn good job through that entire match of convincing me They're really gonna do it this time. Except the Rons is actually gonna win this match.
And they're going to take the title off of Jay. I mean, even going the other way, there was the false finish right after the interference where it looked like Jay was going to get the win. And Seth kicked out. I mean, it was just a really, it was, it was a very good. What made the match great is they made both of those guys look like equal. Jey Uso looked like an equal to Seth Rollins. Seth Rollins kicked out of all of Jey Uso's big shit. Jey Uso kicked out of all of Seth Rollins' big shit.
And it really took the never-ending hatred that this man has for CM Punk for, you know, Jay Uso to finally get the dub. But... the actual action, the reversals, the spirits of the pedigree, the falcon arrow, all those things were incredible and and i love even now that like
Jey Uso's got a submission. Now the sleeper hold is a dangerous thing. Now he gets that shit locked in and people are like, oh my god, it's the movie Ted Gunther out with. Immediately the sleeper holds over with Jey Uso. He's got the three most Basic. simple wrestling moves over on the planet. A top rope splash, a super kick, a sleeper hold. Yeah. And if you get those over,
Any match you do is going to be good because any of those moves. This is the MJF kangaroo kick theory, right? Right, right, right, right. Yeah, no, no. I mean, listen, I'll do credit to Jay. If you, I mean... There's more credit when you get simple moves over. The reason why I brought this up, I mean, the reason why, I mean, we had to talk about it, but the reason why it occurred to me was that Seth Rollins, I think, I mean, you said it.
we don't grade WWE and AEW on the same scale, right? If somebody came into AEW, if there was a new Will Ospreay, if there was new, you know, whatever. If somebody comes in the door and suddenly, you know... solidifies themselves as the best wrestler in the world, the best bout machine, just totally just takes Ospreay and Omega out of the running. That would be the biggest story in AEW. I don't know who the top five wrestlers in WWE are, on the other hand.
right like i'm not i say that with a little bit tongue-in-cheek but like Seth Rollins, I think, would be on anybody's list, but I don't know that I would have just been like, Seth Rollins is definitely the best wrestler in WWE. His wrestling is a lot more cerebral, but who are the best wrestlers in WWE?
This is great because Ospreay did say, you know, WWE is on fire, all this type of stuff. At the end of the day, from bell to bell, once the bell rings, we have better stuff. So who's in the conversation of like... Once the bell rings, like, who's in there? I think Pence is in there easily.
I think... Penta falls back on some stuff a lot, but I wouldn't take away anything from his talent. I think Drew McIntyre is in there. I think Drew McIntyre is like grossly under. Gunther is definitely in there before Drew McIntyre. Gunther is one million percent, for sure. Bianca Belair, obviously. Io Sky is definitely in there. Bianca Belair is not in my top five. Bianca Belair is it? Not in my top five. Oh, no. She's cracking mine. She's cracking mine. Man.
As far as just flat out go out there and just tear the house up for like 20 minutes. I mean, yeah, Gunther, clearly. Drew McIntyre, for sure. Penta, definitely. I mean, I don't know. I feel like if I knew for sure that Drew... AJ Styles. I mean, he still ain't no slouch. There's people in there. Brian, who are we forgetting? Chad Gable. Chad Gable. Yeah. I mean, I mean, no one has said Cody Rhodes. Does everybody agree that Cody Rhodes is the top five in-ring guy?
cody rhodes is in there i mean he definitely this is the point this is the point though is it like it feels like we're learning how to speak english like i don't like like in any like in in aew we would do it because it's because it's graded on the curve It's not even on a curve. It's just a different scale. We don't have these conversations in the same way about WWE. In the same vein, a couple of months ago, Miro slash Rusev and powerhouse Hobbs have one of my favorite matches I've ever seen
Like that first meat classic, whatever the hell they called it. I was like, this is one of the best matches I've ever seen in my life. By the way, Miro looks so good. Rusev, sorry, looks so good. You forget how beautiful that spin kick shit that he does is and just how effortless and... Yeah, there's a tank. There's a floating tank. He's ridiculously large. But I say that to say, like, Mero's on the roster.
Are you going to put Meryl in that conversation? Is Aleister Black in that conversation now? I don't know if Aleister Black is really healthy, but it was great to see him. but it's weird because it's like you put some of those people i i don't know it's definitely a different grading scale like i definitely turn off Bits of my brain. When I'm watching AEW and I turn off bits of my brain.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's sort of implicit, and maybe a lot of people are saying this and saying, like, yeah, well, duh, guys, and we all know this. But it's funny. It's like if it's like Ricochet goes to AEW and all we can say is, man, he's going to get to show out. Like, imagine the matches he's going to have against guys like Kenny Omega and blah, blah, blah. And like...
you know, Miro or Malachi Black come this way from AEW. Nobody's like, oh my God, he's going to put on some five-star classics against Drew McIntyre. It's like, no, it's going to be fun to watch. You know, that's pretty much it. I can't wait to see what the gimmick is. You know?
But every couple of months... they'll throw they'll throw rusev and gunther in like a 20 minute raw main event or something no and it's gonna be fucking awesome right like it's 100 true and i think that we saw that with sath i think that you see it over and over again that there's certainly more that there's more internal value and putting on those kind of matches.
I really think that we're on a scale now, like once a month, Triple H is just like, all right, try to go get a five-star match. It's like, whatever, we got time allotted for it. Let's do it. It's like your dad's like, okay, kids, you can play in the pool. And they're like, yay! And it's like, with the floaties, he's like, no floaties. No floaties! And they just... we get to do whatever you know but it's different man like it's it's it's yes it's
Love the Osprey's quote. Honestly, like I know we We take jabs on the tribalism of it all of everything but I love that wall Osprey feels that way and is willing to say that with his chat. Because, yeah, why wouldn't you feel like you put the best stuff out? Why wouldn't you feel like as a competitor, as an artist? or as somebody who just takes their craft seriously, that you feel like you do it better than your chief competition. I love conflict.
I love tension. I love... that there's somebody on AEW's side that's not willing to be like, Oh, we're all great. And, you know, support all wrestling. That is great. I do like that sentiment. But there's got to be one guy to be like, yeah, but we're the fucking best. All right. And I'm glad it's him. If it came from anybody else.
if it came from anybody else it would seem extremely corny right but like when he says it when swerve says it when ricochet says that stuff the young bucks all like I'm okay with that. Is Kevin Owens in the top five? I'm sorry. That's the thing. Kevin Owens could go to AEW tomorrow and put on the best match of the year. Easily.
And Kevin Owens has probably had to, like, that Kevin Owens-Sammy Zayn unsanctioned match is probably a top five WWE match of the year already. Yeah, that's the thing. We don't know if Kevin Owens can do this, right? Kevin Owens could go out there and have, like, a five-star match. Sammy Zayn could do it. Yeah? I mean, Sammy's in my top five. Yeah, I was about to say, I'm...
A shame that I didn't think of him in my first batch of top fives, but Sami Zayn could absolutely on a random Monday or Friday night. Owens has a little bit more of a universality. He can kind of do everything. I'd probably give him the edge over those two. Kevin Owens is like a playoff riser, right? He's one of those guys where it's like, he can always have a good match. But when you give him a real top-tier main event type of match...
He goes to another like Samoa Joe. They go to another level when it's like oh, it's the main event Oh, it's an unsanctioned match. It's a no-disqualification match. It turns to something completely more with those type of guys. But that's the thing. It's hard to grade it on the same scale because it seems like on AEW... No bullshit. They're sort of going the same speed all the time.
Whereas in WWE sometimes they're not going 100 miles per hour Sometimes some shows some shows gonna be 40 miles per hour with lots of twists and turns But the time that they do let them go 100 miles per hour, you're like, well, yeah, they're allowed to do this every single week. It's crazy. There's two ways to skin a cat. There's people who are entertained by wrestling by saying, like, give me the best single match every single week.
no matter who's in it. And there's ways to get a cat where it's like, build me up get me there get me emotionally invested so by the time you get to take the take the handcuffs off and go crazy and have a match like That CM Punk, Drew McIntyre, Hell of a Cell match doesn't hit the same if we don't have those months and months and months and months and months of buildup.
where everything meant something like friendship pellets and like all that shit everything played into it and not to say aw rushes don't do the same thing But you definitely have a different level of appreciation for it when you're seeing some semblance of it than they're everywhere. If that makes sense. Not to take anything away from it. I love it. It's incredible. We gotta get to the Backlash preview before we do.
Big shout out to Miles Bourne for winning the Battle Royal and becoming the number one contender to Obafemi's World Championship. The Randy Orton spawns are rising right now. Miles Bourne, Kyle Fletcher. Do we need a Miles Bourne-Kyle Fletcher Worlds Collide match? Is that...
One of these days one of these days the winner gets the rights to the Randy Orton polls and Randy retires um elijah's back down there and uh back in and with back home and oh i popped hard for that one i popped hard for the elijah and i'm glad he was elijah too i hope like I just have a better name than Elias, but yes, I think that everybody gets the point. It is funny just to sort of, I mean, Fandango.
had to go through the same thing when he made his appearance it's like hey you're not working for a company that has a wwe deal but you can't use the name that you used in wwe and maybe you don't want to because you're gonna go and take indie bookings with this new name whatever it's just funny juxtaposition um congratulations to julia for getting dropped on her head eight times uh in her match with jordan grace i don't i've watched this match three times and most of those bumps like 100.
I know that there is a thing in Japan. I mean, I know that deliberately going headfirst into the mat is a thing that happens in Japan. We've seen these matches. We know how brutal it can be. None of this looked deliberate. It didn't look particularly messy, although the first time the ref seemed to really get in there and make sure that she was alive. Yeah. That match was freaking brutal, man. Like, I don't even, I don't even know.
It did affect my enjoyment of it. I will say that, constantly having her dropped on her head. But maybe if this just kind of becomes her gimmick, like when Danielson was pretending he was getting seizures and shit, that at some point you're like, okay, this is happening on purpose. But man, her neck just isn't thick enough to be dropped on her head 45 times. I don't need to see that. That was brutal. That was a brutal match.
Does it seem like Battleground is going to be the last hurrah for the... for the nxt for roxanne julia Stephanie Vocker. Roxanne and Julia are on the main roster. Oh, you mean all of them? Yeah, I do think so. I think Roxanne and Julia are out of there. I think... Stephanie Vakere, man, like she is over like Rover on Dovers on both rosters. Like she is. Yeah. She can be on Raw tomorrow or SmackDown. Yeah, I mean, how much talent are they going to put on Raw? I mean, I guess.
They could keep shoving it over there. You know, and I guess Netflix is the right spot for sort of international talent, right? I mean, it seems like she's going to be primed for a big spot at Worlds Collide, which is, what, in two months? A month and some change? Yeah, July, I mean, June 7th or 6th, whatever it is. Yeah, so I don't know.
Do you think the NXT women are lapping the men right now? Well, that's why it was so nice to see Miles Bourne win, that it's not just the same three dudes over and over again. It's not just the easy...
like love Ricky saints, but like Ricky saints being put in that position, I think would have felt a little bit familiar. You know, it's just like, Oh, just came over from the competition. Now we're going to put you at the top. And like the only, And another problem that they had, frankly, is that Obafimi, it just got over too fast.
I mean, it's not, it's not, it's not a problem. Like, I'm not saying they should have done anything to stop it, but somehow people are acting like, oh, but Femi's an institution and not like another guy who's like learning the ropes, you know? So it's like, I've never watched new guys. It's like. Dude, the reason why there's so many veterans in the main event picture is because these guys are teaching Obafimi how to be a wrestler. We need hands. But...
But no, the Miles, I mean, that's going to be an intriguing match. And I love that Miles Bourne got that spot. You think the best gimmick that he does on his prowls? The what? The deaf guy might collide. He actually is deaf.
He is actually deaf, yes. He's 100% really deaf. Oh, you mean just, like, leaning into it. And they lean into it, like, with the gimmick. Like, they'll be saying stuff, and then, like, he'll get his team into, like, some, they'll get the No Quarter Catch crew into some predicament or whatever. And then he'll say something and they'll be like, what?
like right like right at that point of like yo why did you do it like huh i can't well what what was what you said no it's funny big joseph the first time he did all the commentary was like oh man is he okay Is it okay with the deaf jokes but not knowing it's a bit? I'm like, oh, okay, I like this. This could be interesting. Listen, I love anybody who leads it to their disabilities and uses it for my own personal entertainment. My God.
I think it's single-handedly bring back the watch I totally agree, but that's for him to decide before we make jokes. Yeah, that EO Sky-Roxanne Perez match was sick, too, on Monday Night Raw. Talking about Roxanne Perez, also talking about best wrestlers in the company. Good to see Sheamus back. Yeah. Good to see JD McDonough back in his role as being the guy that loses to people the judgment they are feuding with. It's just fantastic stuff all around. All right, let's do it. Backlash preview.
You know, one thing to say about this backlash. Very little, very little lashing back. Not a whole lot of rematches. Yeah. Usually that's what Backlash is all about, right? Not a lot of rematches on this card. Usually Backlash is kind of an echo of WrestleMania. This year, not so much. We got Dominic Mysterio defending his new IC championship against Penta. Jacob Fatu defending his new US championship in a four-way. LA Knight, Damian Priest, and Drew McIntyre. That thing's freaking loaded. Um...
And then Pat McAfee versus Gunther? Uh-huh. Lyra Valkyria versus Becky Lynch and John Cena versus Randy Orton. Notably absent are all of the big stars of the company. It seemed like we were going to get Jey Uso versus... versus Logan Paul coming out of WrestleMania, but that's not on the card yet. After Monday Night Raw, it felt like we might get a little, what? Maybe Jay and Sammy against Rollins and Braun Breaker, that is.
We could do a little, add a tag match like that, just to really bump up the star power. CM Punk would still be left out. I don't know, man. I mean, there's certainly the potential to add one more giganto match to this card. I mean, we'll probably see what happens on SmackDown on Friday. Like, I think... We also don't have anything with the SmackDown Women's Championship, you know, with Naomi and Jade. There's Naomi, Jade, Nia.
all sort of hanging around. So I could definitely see us doing a women's title. thing being added to to backlash card but i mean i think the backlash card is pretty solid already i mean i mean it's not going to get that much bigger it's going to be one of the smaller shows you know in terms of match size i mean card size and that kind of stuff but like
There's no Cody Rhodes on here. There's no CM Punk on here. There's no Roman Reigns on here. There's no Jey Uso on here as we're speaking. There's no Seth Rollins. Something else has got to be happening.
I mean, WrestleMania was a lot. We did probably need a little bit of a palate cleanser. Dude, I know. This would be an all-time, like... people posting online saying i bought my kids tickets to backlash for his birthday and he didn't get to see any of his favorite wrestlers you know first off first off If that person from St. Louis buys tickets to Backlash and you're not satisfied with Randy Orton versus John Cena, what more do you want? That is a...
That is a main event match on Mars. That's a main event match anywhere. And Randy Orton's from St. Louis. Who else are you coming to see? It's the Randy Orton show this Saturday. People are coming to see Rey Mysterio. You know, people are coming to see all their favorite wrestlers. Knock yourself out, Rey Mysterio fans. I think you leave. Punk Roman J Cody off this card because this should be
This is a legacy match. This is one of those matches that, like, it may not even be for the kids, to be honest. Like, it may not even be for the new fans. Like, this is one of those main events that is like, yo. Me and your uncle, we're going to go watch this. I've been watching this probably the last time I've seen John Cena. Wait, you mean Sam vs. Punk?
Nah, Cena vs. Orton. Oh, Cena vs. Orton. I'm like, yo, this might be the last time I see John Cena vs. Randy Orton. This might be the last time we see Randy Orton win a world title in his hometown. What could happen? What could happen? And it's like Randy Orton and John Cena. are big enough stars to carry a card without... Listen, I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with you in principle. I just think logically it feels like they're going to add one more, but...
That does open up a whole new... I mean, dude, WWE is clearly still looking for every opportunity to make more money. There was a while ago that you were talking about the potential of doing... rock versus roman as just its own thing basically like a boxing paper you you remember that conversation yeah yeah uh
It wouldn't shock me if WWE pushed a little bit more towards boxing moving forward. Make feuds that people care about that much and just build the whole card around that because, look, you could be doing twice as many PLE. Like, you're right. They don't need to add anything to Backlash. They could put on another PLA the day after Backlash. You know what I mean? Don't give him any ideas, Dave. More ideas to spend money. Travel. I won't give him any more ideas. Let's do this thing. Brian.
Mm-hmm. We're doing predictions? You gotta get your picks into. Number one. I mean, something weird is going to happen on this card, right? Something interesting? Okay, let's start at the bottom. Dominic Mysterio versus Penta for the IC title. I mean, this is a cool one. What'd you say? Yeah. Normally, you'd look at Penta at the arc that he's been on in his brief time in WWE and say, okay, he's got a solid 60% chance of winning. To put it in Steiner math terms, 66.6% chance.
But you just don't fuck with Dom Mysterio after the reaction he got at WrestleMania, right? Does that make it automatically like a 98% Dominic Mysterio is going to win? Yep. And it's the perfect, it's the perfect.
percentage to have because he doesn't have to win fair like penta could be dominant and still look awesome and still be that dude that we're all gonna eventually see as a champion here and be over as hell and Dom just has to cheat to win and everyone still goes on happy because we want to see Dom cheat to win we want to see Dom be
be a slimy dude uh in this in this in this reign of his so he's they're both in the perfect position penta gets to do awesome shit and still come out looking awesome and dom still gets to go over without happening outshine penta which i don't think he would anyway yeah but diamond five right right You want to make the case for Pinto winning?
Yeah, no Liv Morgan. Liv Morgan's out. Filming a movie? Yeah, so Don Don't Have His Lady might get a little distracted and Finn Balor could use that time to be a snake and call some title. Like half of my timeline on Monday night was people noticing Finn talking to Roxanne Perez in the background. Oh gosh. Old enough to be her dad. No, no, it's just for storyline purposes. I don't follow anybody that's being creepy about this stuff. I think Roxanne Perez is...
Going to be the next Judgment Day member? Are we still adding members? Well, he didn't seem to want to add members, but maybe... He's going to, maybe he'll have something to do a different thing and get a new crew. Her and Julia teaming up, they're rocking with him. That could be fun to watch. Yeah, Finn and those two would be sick. Take the tag titles from Rakawa live. That's vengeance. Yeah. See, there you go. But I don't think Dom's losing. I'm with cats on this one. I don't think so either.
No, you already made your bet. I've made you do it, and now you have to keep it. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, I think Dom's definitely winning this match. I think we all agree on that one. Is that the Stone Cold Lock? We'll find out. All right, Jacob Fatu versus LA Knight versus Damian Priest versus Drew McIntyre. I mean, this is a give Jacob Fatu all the flour situation by giving him two world champions and LA Knight to feud with. This is a, you know.
Good job by Drew to hold down this part of the card and really make this match seem like a giant match. This match is going to be sick, man. This match is going to be some old school Fatal 4-Way. 2007 shit. And it's going to be awesome. Jacob Fatu will be playing the role of Jeff Hardy, I guess, in this match. Who do you got? Brian, I'm going to go to you first. Who do you think is going to win?
Do we all think Jacob Fatu is going to retain? I'm not going to go in deep on this. Does anybody... I'm not always old. Okay, okay. I'm not always old. I was going to say, make the case for someone besides Jacob Fatu here. I can really see... drew or priest stealing this title because of solo sokoa like the solo of it all still makes me think man their relationship still really isn't that tight.
Jacob's sort of finding his own voice doesn't really need somebody talking for him Solo kind of needs something to sink his teeth into he's definitely still somebody who's highly invested into and a short Jacob Fatou run as the US Champion.
might be it you know i i still think jacob fatu wins because this is definitely one of those matches where you just let him loose and do crazy with mad people in the ring and he just looks like an absolute beast but i can't say i'm like he's definitely not a stone-cold lock i'd say i'd say what is the mechanism for solo for for jacob losing this solo tries to interfere on his behalf and fails or solo joins teams up with drew mcintyre yeah solo solo's a fuck up man like he he wants to help
and sometimes he messes up Or maybe this time he messes up purposely and screws Jacob out of it. I can't say. And that would be Jacob Fontu retaining, just losing and retaining. Right, right. there's no disqualifications of fatal formaries either too so anything could really happen you know so oh yeah right so if solo sekoa interferes and cross jacob into the match it'll be resulting in a jacob fatu law
Who do you think is going to win? Just in a vacuum, which of these three guys should be carrying the U.S. title? Big Drew is a US title away from the Grand Slam. Oh, I wouldn't be mad at Drew being US champion, man. I mean, he's the guy that would elevate the title. Yeah. Like if you want to. It's weird, right? Since he's on SmackDown... Santa's title is kind of the title.
And you kind of expect that title to not sort of be around as much. And if you had to pick somebody to sort of be the uncrowned top guy on SmackDown, the U.S. champion Drew McIntyre, you can definitely convince me.
can he be the scotland champion the old heel gimmick of like i love that can definitely do that just get that blue and white cross or whatever behind the belt instead of the american flag Possibility, but I still think Jacob Fatu retains, but I could get behind Drew McIntyre and if that's the way they go. Yeah, Brian, what do you think? If it had to be one of those guys, it's Drew.
You know what, though? Something to scream, please. I was just thinking the same thing. Because I can see, I mean, that rock we haven't. uh something and then drew chasing priest for the title because priest took the world title from him and that's the only thing standing between drew and the grand slam that's a yeah don't don't let that be an afterthought let that be the whole storyline yeah i'm gonna go with damien priest on this one and just seeing him with the us title feels right
Yeah. Okay. All right. Pat McAfee versus Gunther. Now listen, this is another one where it's like there's sort of chalk, but I'm not like that compelled by it. There's no world in which Gunther should lose this match. If it don't happen So let me finish and then I'm going to let you go in. When Pat McAfee starts, here's the thing in canon. I mean, we all know what he did in NXT, but I'm pretty much, I don't.
So maybe canon is the wrong word. But as far as most wrestling fans know, Pat McAfee doesn't know how to wrestle, right? I mean, the people have been watching him only on the main roster. He's going to show out in this match. It's going to be bonkers, man. People are going to be losing their minds when he starts going off. Mm-hmm. But you also got to walk the fine line. Like he's not a wrestler, right? You can't let him like, and this is not NXT. This is not the same.
We're not breathing the same air as we were breathing down there. He can't go over. He can't look against Gunther like he looked against Adam Cole. You know, like, he's got to get beat. He's got to get beat the F up. It's going to be hard to balance the crowd reaction to what the ending's certainly going to be. Now, all of that said... Anything could happen here.
pat mcgarvey's getting his face beaten is michael cole gonna come help is whatever is this gonna be where we set up gunter versus goldberg somehow you know is this gonna be some you know we're gonna have some run-in situation here there are ways that Gunther can lose this match. And frankly, I think that it's almost so obvious that he's going to win that it would be weird if he did. And also, they keep making a big point of...
Gunther being a champion like 80% of his time in WWE and usually when they start to like make emphasis on like how much a guy wins that's when they start losing like unexpectedly too like there's Hasta la próxima. Pat McAfee is not going to be. But. Well, straight up. He's not going to be. No, he's not going to be straight up. And I feel like, man. Is this the Goldberg moment? Is this the time to load up that final match?
I mean, we're definitely on Gunther. This is definitely Gunther's walkabout phase, right? Instead of trying to make sense of his disappearance from the title picture. We just put him on a side quest. Oh, I'm going to be mad at the announcers now. Oh, I'm going to fight Pat McAfee now.
I mean, eventually he's got to get back into the main event, but before he gets there, I think you knock out Goldberg, right? Is Goldberg a SummerSlam match, or are we just doing Goldberg's last match, a standalone PLA? Like, what's the story? I wouldn't mind seeing that on Money in the Bank in LA. I think that's going to be a big WWE night for them with Worlds Collide early in the afternoon. We should just make him the inaugural WWE era AAA champion and watch people's head explode. Yeah.
Goldberg. But what are they saving Gunther for? Are they saving them for a Jey Uso rematch? Are they saving it for... Well, I just think you gotta... I think that his... I mean, I'm not saying this is particularly profound. I just think that you... We're going to work him back into the title picture at some point. He's a top guy. But having just come out of it, I mean, clearly, look at the state of this backlash card.
Somebody smartly made the decision that what this company doesn't need is six rematches in one night. Right? And this is a great opportunity to move. I mean, Gunther's going to get back in the main event, but he can't spend the rest of his life there. This isn't, you know, 1970s. So I think this is a great time for him to be doing all this other stuff. you know and still seem super legit super like you know a big he's he's gonna be he's selling tickets
Let's keep it tall too. Gunther can still kill Pat McAfee and we can still have Goldberg come and save him. Exactly. You know what I mean? And still sort of... Well, I think because of the Gunther that we've been seeing lately, it really only works if Pat McAfee somehow wins. Right? Even if it's like... It's about this qualification. Yeah, exactly. Or Goldberg helps him. Rough stoppage, something. Yeah, just something. So Gunther can have more to complain about. Yeah. Okay, I can see that.
I'm going to go with McAfee here, even though it's not a pick from McAfee as a wrestler, you know, like whatever. But I do think it's an interesting... I don't know man. You know what I would do? For all the football guys. I'd have a challenge reversal. of a victory. I would have Pat McAfee be seemingly defeated.
And by, like, some... Oh, yeah, they review the tape. They review the tape and, like, Gunther's shoulders are somehow down or something like that or... or anything like he just pins him in a peculiar way where like don't they clearly hasn't beat and defeated but you know they go they go they throw the purple flag out and challenge the play challenge the call I don't know if you can do that.
I'm going to have a nerd breakdown right here. I'm having real issues with this. I don't know if you can just institute instant replay. Even in pro wrestling on the fly like that, I think it messes with the internal logic of the fucking sport too much.
But you already you already introduced all the McAfee guys in there you can run all the McAfee guys down that help them in a job I know what you mean. I know it's like you're talking about it kind of being a gimmick in this one instance but that might be that might be like using a gun in pro wrestling like that might introduce introducing
Introducing the potential for a referees challenge might break the entire space-time fabric of professional wrestling. They're gonna do it eventually. Like, everything is challenges. In tennis, they got challenges. Basketball, they got challenges. Football, they got challenges.
eventually they're gonna they're gonna have challenges in pro wrestling i think it works for a specific match like there's specific rules or like whatever like an iron man match something with a clock something with like Something with like an outer element that you could be like, oh, he like...
I don't even know if you can do a dusty finish in modern wrestling. You can do it in a strap match, right? Like when you're tapping all the corners or whatever and be like, oh, we went to the videotape and... It turns out blah, blah, blah happened. I don't know. I just think McAfee would be the perfect person to introduce that.
and like give gun 30 more more things to be like no i love i love the idea i just i'm not sure that you can i mean Referees being not only idiotic, but also like the final arbiter of the rules is sort of the most intrinsic part of pro wrestling. But yeah, you're right. I mean, that's the stuff that Dusty finishes are made of. You can figure out a way to do it. And you can do whatever you want. It's pro wrestling. Anyway.
So who's going to win this match? I'm going to say, I mean, I think it's a toss up because it's just going to, I think it's going to end in some schmozzy fashion, but it could just end in Gunther choking him the fuck out. I'm going to say Pat's going to win. Just to keep the gun dirt. Gunther's self-hatred gimmick going. What do you got, Brian? I like that, but I'm going to stick with Gunther. Yeah, that's the smart money. I just don't think... I think he's going to take him out beforehand.
Oh, you don't think the match is going to happen? Nah. So we're only going to have four matches on this card? Yeah. They'll find another one. They'll make it set tomorrow. Ryan's making dinner plans right now. He's just like... He's like, well, I think I'm going to be doing wrestling at like 845, weirdly. So... I don't know, man. This match has potential to be a show stealer, I think. Yeah, that's the thing. How are you? I mean, for those of... I kept saying for the...
For a lot of main roster fans, they don't know what McAfee can do in the ring. But for those of us who do, we're going to be pissed off if we don't get a freaking match. I'll be upset. McAfee could go in there. He hasn't wrestled in a long time. He really can.
he could he could he could do his thing in there and gunter if you want to talk about if you want to test our five-star theory that we talked about in the show this is a test right here like if gunther and mcafee end up having like a four and a half five star match out there then we're all going to be like oh yeah like clearly
the best wrestlers in the world are also in WWE as well. Cause he just went out there with an announcer and had a classic, which if you're a Gunther man, like the certain things that we've seen motivate him. is sort of like what happens in between that squared circle so maybe there's like something inside of him where he's like yo i'm gonna get an incredible match out of pat mcafee yeah man i mean that's maybe I think you're right. I think it's going to be really good.
Anyway. Alright. What's your official pick, Kaz? I'm still taking Gunther. All right. Lyra Valkyria versus Becky Lynch for Lyra's Women's Intercontinental Championship. This has been, I mean, I don't understand. Lyra has been a freaking revelation on the mic. We had her on the podcast, WrestleMania week. She was... Very entertaining. Sorry, the ringer bump is real, man. That was the other way for Kaiser. Kaiser's next. But Lyra has been crazy on the mic.
with Becky Lynch over the past couple of weeks. She is a whole new person. I wish we could have interviewed her. Let's get her next week. Like, what happened? She just, like, took her freaking sarcastic pills. Like, she's just, like, she's arrested now. Yeah, she was very demure when she was talking with us. And now she's, like, she's talking. Shit! You're talking shit now. I'm like, yo, what was this? What was this during WrestleMania? My God. Fucking cash shit. Yeah, yeah. There it is.
That's crazy. Well, okay, so make the case because I think that I would say that my feeling and the general conventional wisdom is Becky came back clearly with a single minded, you know, vision of getting Lyra over. Mm hmm. Well, she's gone out there before.
Well, yeah. And so, of course, Lyra's going to win because that's the point of all this. Now, I guess you could argue that it's going to go on further. But if Backlash doesn't even have rematches on it, I don't know that we should be counting down the days until some... other rematch that we don't even know is going to happen. What's the case for Becky Lynch? Especially what?
beats people she's a heel this isn't some like becky hogan argument right like wow wow wow can i tell you how much i love those memes by the way it's the funniest shit even though it's so inaccurate The moment anybody wins more than three matches, they start calling somebody something Hogan. And they put like highlights, not even on like the real Hulk Hogan music, like the shitty TNA version of it. I think those videos are hilarious.
uh so you know becky hogan she wins she's a champion um you can still get lyra over Продолжение следует... uh you know by losing this match by her losing this match you can still start a chase there and Lyra's been the only Intercontinental Champion.
It might be a hot time to get on somebody else for a little bit. I mean, listen, this match also got set out by Lyra just freaking offering it. She was like, I know you're going to demand a title shot, so Harry, no problem. And that's a little bit just like babyface 101, just kind of like vanilla stuff.
but it would also be a good, it might be an interesting cudgel for like, what if she loses man she just gave that away like she's still got a lot to learn i mean that that could be that we we've seen the he's still got a lot to learn gimmick over and over again and pro wrestling in this kind of situation So maybe that'll be it. Maybe that'll be it. Brian, who do you got? I got, I got back.
And I think Bailey returns and we get a program with them too. Yeah, we got something. Talking about people who were left off the WrestleMania card. Becky is, I mean, sorry, Bailey is, you know. a great deal of political capital by WWE and probably real capital too. This might be the right time for her. But if she returns... Is she still Lyra's friend? No. Well, see, like, I love when Becky said on that interview that her and Bayley was, like, never friends.
Yeah. We just put them to, you know, the Four Horsewomen. So I would be very interested. I love wrestlers who are still committed to working us outside of, even when they're not on WWE television. I love that. And I want to see them sort of programming.
All right, so final pick. I'm going to go with Lyra. You guys both got Becky, right? Main event match, John Cena versus Randy Orton. There is no way that Randy Orton is winning this match, Kaz. I know that you're trying to put that in the universe. You cannot tell me you're going to pick Randy Orton.
I'm not picking Randy Orton. This will be a lot of fun, but this is just like, I mean, this is, this will be perfect. I mean, it'll be what it'll be. They'll have a fun little match or they'll have a terrible match if WrestleMania was any indication. And we get to see John Cena and Randy Orton wrestle one more time.
I think Cody's shadow is sort of floating over there, too. You know, we haven't seen him. I honestly don't know. If you told me that I wouldn't see Cody Rhodes again for the six months, I wouldn't be shocked. The dude could use a break. I said that throughout the entire world to WrestleMania. I'm like, they're working Cody like a guy who's getting ready to take a vacation, right? A sorely needed vacation, by the way.
Not just for himself, but I think for the fans. I think, you know, the fact that he was starting to get booed a little bit during WrestleMania week, it's like, yeah, you gotta let them miss you a little bit, my G. So I wouldn't be shocked if Cody Rhodes comes back, but...
Take your time, champ. I mean, they got to drag this thing out. You think they were dragging it out before WrestleMania? I mean, if Cody's going to be the one to finally defeat Cena in the end, which I think is pretty likely, but who knows? I mean, that's... We got nine months, man. Not nine. How many months? Eight months. Not nine months anymore. We got about six, seven. It's about, right? It's May. It's not that long. It's not that long.
Still might be a little bit early, but that wouldn't shock me. Brian? You want to make the case for Randy? John Cena's going to cheat and John Cena's going to win. Hotel pop. That's the only case. Mm-hmm. I just want to hear all of St. Louis serenade voices. Is it possible that Randy Orton gets such a big reaction that they change the decision? They change the win on the fly?
While he's standing in the ring getting cheers, Triple H calls into the ref and he's like, fuck it, have Randy go over. I would love that. I mean, I still think there's a strong chance we get a punt kick and Cena gets written off for a couple of weeks.
you know what I mean like really oh just so he can disappear just so he can disappear for a little while you know I think you know I think you still send the crowd home happy that way I know that what I just suggested was ridiculous But if this behind-the-scenes show, what's it called? I always remember Unreal. If Unreal takes off, you better believe we're going to have a moment in the not-too-distant future where they change a decision on the fly.
Triple H radios it into the referee just because that would be an episode that everybody wanted to watch. Just make that huge. Anyway. All right. John Cena is going to win. John Cena is the greatest professional wrestler of all time. I'll win one more match. by the way you see rick flair is now out there claiming to be a 21-time world champion on his chyron just to make sure that everybody knows sit down relax nobody cares it is true nobody cares nobody um
We're going to get to up the number after all these years. We're actually 16th number. Our official picks are John Cena. We're split on Lyra versus Becky, split on Pat versus Gunther, split on... I think we all... No, I think we're split on Jacob. I don't know what our official Jacob Fatu pick was. I want with Jacob. I want to go with Damian Priest. And I think we're all together on Dominic versus Pinto. What is more certain, Dominic retaining or Cena retaining?
Cena retaining. That's 100%. Okay, well, we're all on board. The John Cena retirement train. Thank you guys so much. We got to get out of here. We've been going way too long. Kaz, want to get your plugs in? Yes, sir. Go next. And also, a new episode of 7pm in Brooklyn is out right now with J.R. Smith. It's our longest episode of the season. We sat down with him for three hours. Next fans, NBA fans. Yeah. Alright, thank you, Kaz. Thank you all for listening. See you back here next week.