Who Was the Pro Wrestling MVP of the Weekend?

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Especially if you're like a Knicks fan like me. I should have said excluding the Knicks, but go ahead. Nah, that Sunday was a tough one. It was a tough Sunday for me, right? So if I had the right... Just Sunday. All right. We'll leave Saturday Night's Main Event out of it. Just Sunday. Carl Anthony Towns, number one. Mm-hmm. Hangman Adam Page, number two. This is a travesty to wrestling fans of humanity. Number four. Will and Nightingale, number four. Oh, yeah. All right.

And number five, Trick Williams. Those are my MVPs of just Sunday. Just Sunday night. Saturday, a whole different story. Saturday felt like a very souped up episode of Raw, but Sunday. lots of wrestling lots of basketball lots of uh lots of praise to give out incredible performances everywhere it's a good time to be a

Man, we were very negative a few weeks back about where wrestling is right now, but I think... I think we were just in a negative mood, but yeah, okay. I think things are starting to turn up just a little bit. They got to start to crank up. Okay. I'm not going to just like try to tear apart your next fandom here. You can't. Not after Sunday. No, but Carl Anthony Towns being your MVP is sort of like... I don't know man.

But like Santino Morella was the highlight of Raw back in the day. It was like saying more about Raw than it was about Santino Morella. Carl Anthony Towns. And Santino Morella couldn't be further away from the landscape of my basketball and wrestling fandom, specifically my Knicks fandom. You talk kindly about our Dominican sassy king, first off. And second of all, Sunday was a crazy day. I am so happy.

for the head-to-head wrestling night head-to-head wrestling sundays and saturdays i don't disagree with you in principle we have to get to this is a whole topic of conversation i love it because wwe is like we're not faking anymore we're just running yeah yeah it's on now apparently

this is exciting this is exciting stuff if aew like ran a show on like a yeah like uh an aircraft carrier in like you know the other side of the world that aired at like like 4am, 2am on like, on a month, on like a Wednesday, WWE would find some reason. to run a show at the exact same time. Oh, well we just happened to be in Uzbekistan. And, you know, we were on the boat anyway. What do you mean? We were just, we were just, oh, you. Back to the question. Back to the question.

Yeah. And we're talking Sunday only? Sunday only. Mercedes is an MVP. Mercedes ranks above Carl Anthony Towns. Oh, that's okay. All right. Carl Anthony Towns is like the... the kazushiko kata of basketball where you spend where you like really enjoy it when they come through in the main event but the rest of the time you're like Why is he in the midcard? Like, why? Why do I go whole weeks without remembering he exists?

He never had the highs of Kazuchika Okada, so I should take that back. This speaks to how you see Mercedes-Benz Monet, because Mercedes-Benz Monet, who's had an incredible run of wrestling right now. And I think everybody in the world knew who was going to win the Owen Hart tournament specials in the finals. That's expected. You know what's unexpected, Dave? A 20-point fourth quarter on the road down by 20 to come back out of a 2-0 hole? Are you kidding me, Dave? Nah, man. Carl Anthony Towns.

MVP over anything. Carl Anthony Towns is actually just the Willow Nightingale is the parallel. I've always been a fan. Wasn't expecting for her to be the MVP. That's actually a very solid comparison. Carol Anthony Towns is definitely the Willow Nightingale of the New York Knicks. um both new yorkers both new yorkers so attracts attracts right there oh my god Well, Willow Nightingale, we're not going to talk anymore, but we'll talk more Mercedes, more Hangman, Osprey.

Prick. Willow. Saturday's main event, too. We have a smackdown on stuff we have to talk about. The Wyatt Six are back, baby. The Wyatt Six are back. Jeez Louise. We gotta start the show. Cody's back. Good. A little bit exhausted. Since the last time we spoke, we had a Friday Night Smackdown. We had a Saturday Night's Main Event. Check. We had AEW Double or Nothing. Check. We had NXT Battle. Check. And we had Monday Night Raw. Check. Who? Brian?

Brian, Brian on the ones and the twos. If I, please, if I'm leaving somebody out, let me know. Let's try to run through the people, just the people who returned since the last time we spoke. We got Cody. We got the Wyatt Six. That's five. That's five right there. No, that's six total. Five of the Wyatt Six. Okay, six people. Big Bronson Reed? Seven. Who are the shocking returns in AEW? Somebody must have popped up on that show.

Not off the top of my head. Oh, uh, uh, her, uh, uh, Tanahashi. Yeah, Tanahashi. So I'll say, we'll call that a, it's not a return, but that's a surprise appearance. I mean, I, you know, that sling blade was, you know. It was a very surprising slingway. What else? That's a lot of pop-ins, a lot of pop-ups, a lot of returns. We got some big matches, too. Well, Mike Santana was...

He was on NXT proper last week. I think he's going to be on NXT this week. Oh, that's right. He popped up on Battleground and they've already announced that he's going to have a match on NXT. See, too much is happening. Mike Santana is. is a personal fave and uh he is i was shocked that he didn't kind of show up in an xd sooner because he's just a perfect sort of guy because he's legit and he's Well, I don't know how old he is, but feels sort of fresh. Yep, yep.

Brian, you can stay on camera. Brian just disappeared. We have so much to talk about. You just need to let us know. At any point, we go off course. if we veer astray if we ever say anything that is not specifically recounting or recapping some wrestling over the past five days i want you to scream at the top of your lungs um I actually had a Fox fact I was going to throw in, but I'm not because I just said that. Okay. Anyway, biggest win. Since the last time we spoke. Of the weekend.

The biggest win. Mm-hmm. I gotta start the man. It's a to me. It's a dead heat between Hangman Adam Page defeating Will Ospreay. And Trick Williams winning the TNA. You can't give me Trick Williams. Why not? I called Trick Williams winning. I love Trick Williams winning. It's a great look. This is... this is not on the same level as Hangman Adam Page. I think it is, Dave, because I'm going to correct it right there. Okay. Because it's for the same reason why I thought

that Osprey Hangman had to be a match of the year quality because of the setup, because of what they were going for. Whoever won that match was like... okay this is the story they're gonna tell going into their biggest show all in right can you agree now can wait quick time out can you agree now that hangman winning was the right choice now that you felt what it feels like for hangman to win

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I could. I definitely was on the side of Will Ospreay winning because, you know, I kind of felt like... I kind of felt like I know what AEW is at this point. And I almost thought that going the storyline route and not just the, we got a crown, this is the guy now route.

Was something that I don't think it would have done in the past to be honest Which I think is a good thing the fact that they stuck with the story and is seeing it through which is what I've said for the longest time a W's biggest responsibility is the rehabilitation of Hangman Adam Page. I said this for a long time. I said, if they can get him back right to where he was, right before he ran into CM Punk.

They will be okay. Yeah. And they have proven that they will be okay. Now, granted, I wasn't all the way in on him winning it because I thought, man, You don't want to wait too long to not to crown Will Asperger. It's like this dude's an incredible... he's having like quotables every single week with every interview calling out wwe but then he's backing it up in the ring with these like incredible promos incredible in-ring work

Like he's a real reason to watch the show. And it's like, damn, like that's, he's their Cody Rhodes. Like he's the guy that I tune in to watch. And every time it comes out, same insane reaction. Like don't wait too long to crown that guy. Okay. But I am surprised that they stuck with Hangman and I'm happy that they did because I just didn't think they would see through that story and continue telling that redemption story about him. Maybe it was like, well, let's get...

Let's crown our shiny show pony here. You don't want to wait too long to not crown. that show pony right like so uh but yes i think it was the right call after feeling it out after seeing uh the emotion told the handshake at the end between osprey it's like You know, the immediate question you ask is like, all right, if you don't crowd a little osprey, is it going to look like a goofus? After the match and he did it he did not look like a goofus because Is that a term of art?

But it was because of Hangman. They tied in the story of him losing his mind after trying to kill Swerve last year. At that top of the rock rampway and going back and like show like oh you can actually be the guy Because you just you just humbled the guy that we all thought is the guy and well Asper

and immediately they both looked better after the match. So I didn't think they were going to do it, but it was for all the reasons why I thought They need to do more of this type of stuff which is long-term storytelling playing off things that make a lot of sense They're doing a great job of that the match stood up to it I thought it was great. And I thought it was now, with context, I definitely think it was the right move, for sure.

Yeah, I mean, listen, I was not full-throated in my pick of him and Adam Page, but I do think that that was the storytelling. This was the right call. I mean, I do think it's a risk with Ospreay. You know, I don't think, I think, I think. It's because it would be a risk within.

But if there's anyone that you could have confidence with, that they will stay hot, that they will continue heating up, that they will somehow find a new level of heat. You mean it's a risk in not crowning him right now? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I think it would be a risk with anybody, right? I mean, it's like, it's like the case for, it was like the case for Sami Zayn before WrestleMania last year, right? It was just like, man, no one's, like, he's never going to be this hot again, right? Is anybody, is he hotter than Cody Rhodes? You know, like, whatever.

And maybe that's the argument. The same thing is exactly what we should be pointing at, you know, when you say you should chrono Osprey. But Osprey's a different cat, you know, and Osprey's going to be... I don't think Ospreay is going to have any trouble staying at the top of his game. Now, I mean, I don't want to look too far ahead. There's a lot of forward looking ahead. But I do think that in this one instance... It's worthwhile.

What do you do with Ospreay at all end? Man, now that is a hell of a question. I think that the traditional AEW look would either be to... I mean, I think, you know... He went through the Kyle Fletcher, the various stages of Kyle Fletcher, right? I don't think he's got another blood feud on the back burner, although you could throw him in with I mean, you could have whatever. You could put him in a multi-person match. Could he figure a way into this match?

No, no, no, no, no. Tony Khan is too much of a traditionalist. This is a one-on-one deal. Okay, okay. So you could have him in a multi-man match against other members of the... death writers you could have him you know whatever you could you could find a way to put him and swerve in a number one contenders match coming you know whatever like you could do something like that like um I mean, I don't even know. What is the right solution here?

I think there's three calls and you already named one of them, right? I think. First off, Will Ospreay has to have a marquee match. I guess I'm already I'm also already kind of assuming that we're gonna end up with Okada Omega again, but yeah, but I think that's the move but I think I think that's three options with Osborne, right? And you got to have in a marquee match, especially if...

All of your biggest talents or championship talents are already spoken for. Akata's got Omega. Mox is with Osprey, Hangman Adam Page. There's really nothing else out there that makes a ton of sense. But one is like a number one contender sort of showcase match with Swerve. I mean, I think that's something that you could do with Ospreay. That sort of starts his redemption back.

to you know the top because swerve was like the first guy to kind of like humble osprey in a big match in aaw and maybe getting that one back could be something You could talk Daniel Bryan Bryan Danielson into wrestling at All In I mean he did appear at the press conference he did say he was gonna be at All In he never said he was gonna wrestle but I mean If Bryan Danielson is down to do one more match, that's not a John Moxley match, a John Moxley get-back match.

I could see him running one with Will Ospreay. And because I spend entirely too much time on social media and the internet and just listening to what folks are trying to say. are starting to conjure up this possible Will Ospreay versus AJ Styles match at all. Which I'm just like... AJ Styles? How? Yeah, I'm like, how is that happening? I'm pretty sure he's still...

Under contract, but I mean it's a fun thing to think about and talk about but I I just don't think it's that I don't think that's happening, but if it did happen Shit, I'd be the first one to watch it Be super hyped for it. But I think those are the three options right there. I think you've run ones with Swerve.

You do something with Danielson, bringing him back, first match in a year, first match in those big comeback, whatever. Yeah. Or you do some sort of dream match that nobody's expecting, like... you know, debuting AJ Styles at all. There's one other one that you didn't mention. You could run back. You could run back ricochet. You could. You could. You definitely could. Yes. Because we've had it once in AEW.

It wasn't like it was a meaningless match. It was, you know, the point of the match was their shared history and everything else. But if you want to reheat something... You could make... Ricochet could possibly take swerves. as that, like, de facto number one contenders match because Ricochet hasn't really lost. He's lost many matches. No, and it's like as great as Ricochet is, it's like he needs something that's not just a comedy match, you know, and like it's time to sort of reclaim his role.

as one of the best in the world. Oh, I think he already has. No, I just mean to put him in a super serious match. I really enjoyed the match at all end. Speaking of matches, I enjoyed at all end. I have something very important to say. You were wrong about Hank. Was I? I was wrong about anarchy. That match was fan-freaking-tastic. Everything about it. I even like the Bucks wearing those silly suits. I enjoyed the music drops, although...

They gotta figure out, just in general in wrestling, how to make us hear the music like it's a... movie right like i don't need to wait to sort of like i'm here i'm trying to figure out i'm i'm bad i'm bad i'm bad hearing anyway you know i'm like the last one in the car to realize what song's about to play but like the music

I enjoyed the idea of the music. The execution left a little bit to be desired, but I enjoyed everything about that match, man. It was fantastic. It was so good. Willow, you're right, was an MVP. Swerve was incredible. Powerhouse Hobbs was incredible.

Um, shibata i'm still not exactly sure why he was there but he got to wrap his leg in barbed wire and that was and and and kick weird mark briscoe coming back out of the ambulance with the blood on his face with the mohawk is a great look this has been a great this is a we're in a we're in a peak period for people finding the right look i think um And Kenny Omega looked great. I mean, it was just...

It was good. It was good. Marina Shafir finally got a chance to shine a little bit in that match. Took some offense too, man, which I thought was going to be great. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that whole thing was just stupendous. Anarchy in the arena. It is exactly what a billionaire with a wrestling company should do. It is exactly what you do if you're a billionaire and you run your own wrestling company. It's like, yo.

We're going to use the whole arena. We're going to license the most expensive, most notable songs we can to play throughout the entire match. We're going to have shit that explodes. We're going to have all types of... Stapling and syringes and violence and all that type of stuff. It's gonna be crazy. Everyone's gonna love it There's never gonna be a second off There's gonna be multiple cameras going at the same time like it sounds it sounds like if you're asking someone to explain

What anti-Korean arena is like, if you watch somebody whiteboard it, you would think they were fucking crazy. You would think they were out of their minds, right? exactly what you're supposed to do like if you're gonna make something no disqualification no rules anything goes

Kind of feels homogenous after a while unless you have a match where truly anything goes and like there's truly no holds barred, right? Even even down to the women getting physical with the men like that truly makes it go like oh like anytime you think it's gone too far The women's spots were when it was like, okay, this is definitely a thing that I could only watch here, right? Yeah, I mean, yes. I was a little bit skeptical of their inclusion, I'll admit.

But yeah, I mean, it was... Yes, they were everything. What I loved about Anarchy in Arena without talking too much about each specific spot is that they made the violence look grand and small like violence ranging from an explosion Bloody guy running out of an ambulance. And a staple gun to the tongue. It satisfies every level of how human beings understand what hurts on somebody.

The staple gun stuff was great. I mean, it was because that's actually, if you can make the case, that's the right way to do the staple gun spot, right? Because it's like, I prefer a comical staple to the nut.

than like a gruesome staple to the forehead yeah yes yes yes yes like and even though we got some legit we got the head we got the gruesome side of the staple gun too but you balance it out a little bit and it just it all feels a lot better you sleep easier The stable guns probably the best If there was an award for best new weapon or best latest weapon... In wrestling, it would be the Stample Gun because it mimics a real gun so well. Yes. Like you can do all the cool John Wick.

gun movements it's not new it's new in the you know mainstream but i agree it's like it's the same reason the same way that i would say like you know we always complain about drew mcintyre's sword because like we already have a kendo stick which is supposed to be the sword right but like We don't need a real one because it takes its place. It fits the bill. It evokes the same feeling within us. That's what a stable gun is able to do. It's very John Wick-y. That's great.

you think we'll ever have a stable gun match where like it's just like pure john wick like both guys like draw out of holsters with a stable gun in each hand and start shooting each other from eight feet away you think Would you watch that? No, I think this is enough staple gun. Yeah, that's enough staple for me. I can only take it in an hour. And parts. I don't want too much. Small doses. Yeah, small doses for sure. Okay. So that was great.

We got a lot to talk about. Mercedes mentioned earlier. cannot have a bad match at this point so come where she came from starting off i mean we are gonna have to she's rewriting her own history she's writing wrestling history right now her run is so good And the fact that, I mean, we, I think, had her win as a lock, but, like, the fact that we were even talking about it, this is all in Texas. Mercedes versus Timeless Tony Storm.

is the biggest women's match since fill in the blank, Kaz. Oh, I love that question. Mercedes Monet versus Toni Storm is the biggest women's match since... Golly. I can't think of... who have been kept apart from each other for that long that were also both top women in the company, right? The magic in this match being so big is how they've

operated on complete opposite spectrums of the company for so long. I mean, talk about restraint. This is who you trust, the kind of booking that you trust to... I mean, to handle Ospreay appropriately, even though he's out of the, you know, nominally out of the title picture, right? Man, I can't think of, like, I would probably say... selamat menikmati Rhonda, Becky, Charlotte, that mania. I mean, that was pretty big. I mean, as far as like anticipation and build up, I would probably say.

Becky Charlotte from Evolution was, you know, kind of like that culmination from that big summer when Becky Lynch turned and that was pretty big. But I don't know, man, this kind of feels like... It feels big. It definitely feels big. Now, if the match quality lives up to it, there's a whole other question because I still think right now. You know, we have a benchmark as far as like the best women's wrestling matches of the year. I think it's Mariah May, Toni Storm, the Hollywood ending.

And Becky, I'm sorry, Bianca, Rhea, Io, WrestleMania. Like, those are like... Tier a matches now Mercedes has been operating at a tier a level on every one of these matches But as far as like big matches, I think those are it and I think Mercedes

And it is perfectly set up for them to have a historic women's wrestling match. Just a historic wrestling match, period. But what it says about, you know... I don't think you could find anybody who talks about wrestling professionally to say something negative about Tony Storm, except me last week. But I was just like, ah, I think I'm getting kind of easier. But...

I'll take that on the chin. And you can't really find fault with the run Mercedes has inside the ring. Even before she became a free agent. People would always say the only thing holding Sasha Banks Mercedes Monet back is injury, right? Like the only she would have these hot runs in Sasha Banks.

And then she would get injured. And that was because she would, you know, they'd be bumps. I'd see her take on a random Monday Night Raw. She does not need to be taking those bumps. But now... with i guess the the schedule that she works now she could kind of go all out for any of these matches because now they're all big matches for her it's not like she has to go and like

working on a random monday night raw or something like that like everybody she works is either somebody from japan or a big aew star and she's the prize so now she doesn't have to like You know, she doesn't have to hold back. So all these matches feel great. And obviously, it's...

Props to them for keeping those two apart as long as they can because now I think it's going to be a real historic wrestling match between the two if they can stick the landing. If they can stick the landing to this. Yeah, man. I mean, I'm not sure. I mean, you could have told me, I think that you're right about the, about where this kind of the significance of this match in history, but man, this feels so big right now.

The Storm Shurikawa match was really good, had a fun ending, but I think more important than anything else, kept Tony front and center. for to hype this match as it's you know in the offing um you could have told me this is the biggest women's match since like fucking wendy richter fabulous moolah or something you know like and i would have been like hey i'm probably right um

It feels like such a big deal. I still got a special place in my heart for Sasha Bailey on NXT TakeOver. No, no, no. I think that the significance of that match skyrockets it above all else. But yeah, just absolutely, absolutely fantastic stuff. You were right about FTR. They looked great. That was much needed. They're elevated. That's great. I mean, listen, we can talk about every match on this card, but I think that this is...

Those are the real high, high, high points. Just absolute, absolute unbridled praise from Mercedes and Jamie Ader, but of course as well to Hangman Page and Will Ospreay who put on Both of those matches were... were... like the cartoon where you like hit the hammer on the on the

scale thing at the amusement park, and then it busts out over the top. That's the Meltzer ranking right now. They break the scale. They broke the scale. Yeah, absolutely nuts. Do you want to do Battleground or Saturday Night's Main Event? Let's do Saturday Night's Main Event because I think we need to palate cleanse a little bit with all that praise. Alright.

Speaking of five-star matches, John Cena wrestled R-Truth. Should we have seen this coming? I mean, we knew what the outcome was going to be. We knew that, you know, it was a non-title match. Was there anything surprising? I mean, was Cody's return? I mean, I think I predicted Cody's return. You did. Was there anything that shocked you about the show? About the show? The Bronson Reed inclusion. About the results. The results, no. I think we went 100% on all the results. Yeah.

I think... Do you like the Bronson Reed? Do you like Bronson Reed helping out? I like Bronson Reed helping out. I always thought that that group needed another guy. And I think Bronson Reed really rounds them out, man No pun intended. I see that. His injury was so... just the worst timing because he was hot as fish grease can i was like yeah can i can i just dissent just a tiny bit no no i don't disagree but to play devil's advocate uh number one

Braun Breaker looked like half the man he used to be standing in that ring on Monday night with being like one half of the tough guys in suits posse. Right. Still don't have a name. I think tough guys. I saw WWE trademark that. So I think I'm just kidding. TGIS. TGIS is their name. It wasn't just a lack of a spray tan. I commend him for that. But Braun and Braun, the two Brawns,

They're both Bronsons, actually. Yeah, the double Bronson thing. It just takes away from Braun Breaker. Because here's the thing with Braun Breaker. he's actually not the biggest guy no He just feels like the biggest guy. And when you have him standing in a group that big and he's not screaming into a microphone, he feels literally smaller. And I don't mean just because Bronson Reed's big, but just to have him as part of this unit now.

Part of me thinks that they know this and they're going to lean into the Braun Breaker is too big for this group storyline almost immediately. And that Bronson Reed is the backup. But I wasn't crazy about it. Also, I like Paul Hammond going and extolling the virtues of everybody that he works with. It's a time-honored tradition. It always works. There was a little bit of, like, a little insistent. just a little bit of like insisting upon him itself last night and it felt like he it felt like

It assessed upon itself? Yeah, it was just like he was trying a little. It felt like he was trying too hard because he could talk. Paul Eamon can scream at the top of his lungs, quoting the friggin' Zarathustra in the Bible and not say it, and he still wouldn't be over the top for less. peak lesnar right you can say anything in the world and it made sense saying that about roman reigns during the peak of the tribal chief

When he's out there talking about how awesome Bronson Reed is and Bron Breaker are, you know, it's just a little bit like, okay, you're just trying to sell us here, dude. Like, you're back to being a salesman. You're not an ad.

Well, yeah. But that's why you put him next to Paul Heyman, though. No, it's true. It's true. But Bronson Reed, and I'll just say this. I like Braun Breaker in a suit. I don't mind Bronson Reed in a suit. I feel like Bronson Reed... I don't know what the right look is for Bronson Reed. Maybe suspenders? Do we need to bring back the big dude in suspenders look?

Don't know, you know, it's like it was like an episode of Queer Eye and like Seth Rahn's like we're a new group now and Seth is like Everybody's gotta get doing it out. I'm not sure it's like that you're not. Yeah They had like a whole makeover session and like Seth is like waiting at the fitting room and he's like he's like that's the one and then they all went out together and so it's just like that nah um i'll say this man uh

That's definitely an argument that could be made, that Braun Breaker has kind of taken a step back being in a group like this. Well, the thing is, people were making that case prior to this weekend, and I was like, no, it's stupid. He gets to be... Like three horsemen, basically, you know, and now he's back to being only two horsemen. Well, here's the thing. I think with Brombreaker... He's in a position where he was like, he was like,

booked so well coming out of NXT. Anything would have felt like a step back. That wasn't. Launched into the world championship picture after that right like trying the same in the same in the same instance He was kind of booked like that same way in NXT

He came into NXT, the rainbow era, and ran through that thing like gangbusters and became champion immediately. That's true. And then he had to kind of step back through this War Dogs thing with Baron Corbin to kind of show that he had other things. He can do except just like mow through people even though we love watching him mow through people. It's probably the highlight of raw every single week, but

Here's the thing that I think we're missing, Dave. Any good stable has that one guy where we're like, man, I can't wait till he like... Shoves it in the leaders face like Randy Orton was that guy what for evolution?

when it was like man i can't wait till this guy rko's triple h you know what i mean like that's all especially if you're like the young like blue chip prospect of the group like even though the rock was already like talking his by the time the nation was really like becoming his like I think folks were like man I can't wait till him and Farouk get into it so I think that's kind of Braun Breaker's position right now it's like

Sure. They can't heal him up if they tried. Like, they had him beat up Sami Zayn. They had him beat up Roman Reigns. They had him beat up everybody we love, and we're still... Yeah, like... we love broad right yeah absolutely yeah that being said man like he kind of needs to go through this process right now like even though we all know it's coming we all know it's coming and here's the thing when you have

Super strong world champions or super strong Moments that you're trying to make as a world champion. This is only my my only pro wrestling philosophy Not everybody could get up. Not everybody gets a swing at the plate at that time and like sometimes you just gotta You got to pitch. You just got to play the field. You got to play special teams. Not everybody gets to run offense sometimes, right? Like positioning matters so much. And when you have a world champion like John Cena.

And you have a new super over duper duper babyface champion in Jey Uso. You got to take time to establish both of those guys for different reasons. John Cena is already established, but clearly the person who beats him for the championship is the person who they're building towards that. Yeah. Jey Uso, there's been so much investment in him as like the new top guy on Raw, the new top baby face. And there's already so much talk of him having this short reign that you gotta invest time.

into making him credible so what do you do with guys like brawnbreaker in between that what do you do with guys that were just a kind of champion that we all know is the guy that we all know is eventually going to be you know a top dude in this company You'll put them in a stable like this where like... He's getting a crash course and how to run this show Like, you're with Paul Hammond, you're with Seth Rollins.

and he got some muscle now in Bronson Reed, who might be your Batista, right? Like, he might be the guy who was like, yeah, we didn't really think he was going to be the world champ, but holy shit, people love this guy. You know what I mean? Like, there's, that's kind of, that's... positioning matters so much you can be a big deal on a show without fighting for a title or being in a title picture or like any of that type of stuff like brawn And stature, right, is not the biggest guy.

But what makes him feel big is that every week we got to see him run like 80 yards down from the entranceway and throw himself through tables and throw himself through barricades and all that stuff. And when he did that for five or six weeks... anything's going to feel like a step back after that. So it's like, now that they know they got this in him.

They gotta use it judiciously. They can't just do that every single week because they know it's special and now they gotta build these other special parts about him. So when he is ready to main event WrestleMania 43, 44, 45, all this shit like Paul Heyman says, There's a reason why people get behind it. There's a story to be told there. So that was a big part of me for Saturday Night's Main Event. Saturday Night's Main Event just felt like a lot of table setting for the summer.

That's why I really enjoyed the show. I feel like I wasn't necessarily watching... I feel like watching wrestling on NBC now on national television, you know you're going to get a ton of commercials. It's not going to be like... You're not going to get like a 30 minute, like Matt classic. You're going to get a lot of stuff that's pushing the stories forward. And that's all Saturday night's main event was to me. So I enjoyed that part of it.

And as somebody who's flipping that between that and the Thunder and Timberwolves, it was the perfect sort of like half watch when I can just be like, oh, what happened there? Oh, okay, great. And then hop back over to Julius Randall and Anthony Edwards and see what they're doing against the Thunder. Yeah, I enjoyed it for different reasons, even though the matches weren't that great.

Yeah. It was totally enjoyable. CM Punk and Sami Zayn 2 are about as over as you could possibly be right now. We talked about Sami earlier. Is CM Punk getting Stone Cold Pops now? Yeah.

i think he's there on monday night because now he just runs in to beat up seth rollins i mean it seems like there'd be a kind of law of diminishing returns thing coming on like when he came out last night i was like This again, but like... in aew the running joke was that they would just have cm punk speaks like as in the promo for every show you know

now and the wwe was you know and did they're certainly indulged in that tactic too it was like cm punk's every house show every every episode of raw he's gonna come out and for his for the first six months of his run whatever would just come out and just like tell the crowd he loved him and he missed him now though we're just fully pivoted to cm punk punches somebody and weirdly this is kind of what i wrote about when i wrote about cm punk right before wrestlemania was it like what cm punk

you know all he really wants is to be to hate somebody enough to justify that moment right yes CM Punk has like the best sort of wrestling career because like he got to like lift his Bret Hart arc for a while and now I think CM Punk's kind of like in his Stone Cold Steve Austin arc he gets to kind of like in a way pay homage and cosplay like his like wrestling heroes and their spots right like the fact that cm punk now all you gotta do is hit his music

and have him run down there and start throwing punches and throwing GTSs and run in the crowd and yell and do all that stuff. That's Stone Cold Steve Austin. That's the Stone Cold Steve Austin playbook. He's got you got some entrance music that people go nuts for and people are waiting to hear and we already heard in the beginning of the day now

CM Punk is not in the building. Oh wait, he's in the building. If you ever hear that somebody's not in the building, they're in the building. He's in the building. That is like a top five feeling.

in professional wrestling as a fan it's like oh he can't be here oh my god he's here that's his music you know what i mean like so he's and and every show that dude His music hits and he gets a Stone Cold Steve Austin level pop. It don't look the same because there's not a million signs in the crowd and we don't have flash photography anymore or else we'd see all the click, click, click, clicks when he would walk down the ring. but you see the phones, you see everything off. He is, I think now.

CM Punk without a championship to chase and just within a vendetta to... with a vendetta to... Yeah. He wants to live like his Stone Cold Steve Austin arc now for like the next like however months it is until it's like WrestleMania season again or Royal Rumble season again. What do you think, Dave? No, I think that's exactly right. I mean, I think the thing with Punk is And we saw this, I mean, I think with the lesson that we can learn from the Drew McIntyre punk saga.

Is that when you get something going with punk, you just gotta just lean into it.

but don't over push it i mean whatever i mean you just gotta just handle with care but just like just you know go keep going and going and going and it only picks up steam at some point i guess there will be a lot of diminishing returns but man the crowd goes absolutely bonkers and that's all you can really that's all i mean all you can all you can hope for in pro wrestling it's pretty crazy so him and sammy is i mean sammy's right up there

Once again, the same as it was before that WrestleMania match he didn't get when he left the bloodline. Sami Zayn is at a point now where if it weren't for the other dude next to him getting cheered more, this would be like the hottest wrestler that we could ever remember since Stone Cold Save Austin, you know? And, um, Sammy's, Sammy's absolutely at his peak. Sammy and Seth are real life.

BFFs. I hope I'm not breaking kayfabe to say that. You can see it in the way they work together. They just know exactly how to lay in, lay out for each other and lay into each other. It's so much fun to watch. I think they gave us just enough of this match. I don't think that there's really reasonable odds that we will run back this match. Not just because, I mean, for no other reason, because it's like a random Saturday's main event, you know, tag match, like whatever. Um...

But it felt like they gave us just enough to not give it away. I mean to give us a better version of it. We'll have multiple iterations of all these people anymore. We'll have Bronson and Bronson, attorneys at law, as the tag team. I'm sure if there's a tag team match coming up, so we'll get that back. Let me ask you something, Dave.

What didn't you like about Saturday Night's Made event? I feel a lot of people were very negative on the show. Really not into it. Too many commercials. Matches weren't great. Cena, R-Truth was whatever. Or Cena, Logan Paul tag teaming up. The other part that got me the most, I don't know if this actually felt bad. I mean, if this was a thing I disliked or a thing I liked. The thing that got me confused more than anything else

What's that? Was Jesse Ventura calling out the logic of having a cage match where you can walk out of the door? This is every cage match, by the way. Yes. I don't think I would have been, I think it would have been less weird if he had just been like, you know, they're not really punching each other. It seems like that. It seems like they're pulling their punches and acting like they're getting hit to call the logic of the cage match. It a question was so unsettling.

i loved it i loved it the thing we all know we don't say this out loud man you just don't say this out loud and yet it was so perfectly jesse and so like irreverent and such a it was this sort of like you felt like you If I was in a room with any other wrestling fans, I would have been high-fiving them. It was just so funny. I loved it so much because

Alright, if Saturday Night's Main Event is going to be a show where you're not going to get the craziest match, whatever. But we get Jesse Ventura just unfiltered. Because he literally watches the show like he has not watched WWE since 1991. Yeah. It's like literally he left our TVs and he was like, alright, I'm done with this shit. And then he comes back with the same 1991 logic that we all remember as kids.

Do you remember how much steel cage matches your store? Oh, yeah. I used to love the blue steel cage. I'm talking about the big square joint. And you won by climbing over the top and both feet hitting the ground. Somewhere along the lines in the Attitude Era, they're like, ah, we need to put a door here or something like that.

And it takes away from such, like, all of the drama of what Steel Cage matches us to be. Well, it's an old school Steel Cage. I disagree. I like that. I like the aesthetic of the real chain link Steel Cage because it looks like you can rub somebody's face against it. Also, you... sets up the bumping because it has a little give to it you know you can backdrop somebody into the steel cage it's more of a hell and a cell thing obviously but like you can do all kinds of stuff um

But I do like the Big Blue Steel Cage. I think they should bring that back for something. I mean, that's like my formative memory. him wwe is hogan hogan versus bundy inside that was the original that was the original super stipulation before tlc matches in wwe yeah in wwe right like before any of your like you know ladder on a pole whatever the hell match it was the blue when shit couldn't get any more deep

Blue steel cage. We couldn't figure a way with new technology because I understood it hurt him. Could they figure a way to make it where it's not as painful like they did the Elimination Chamber? right like i don't know if you know that was is that one of the problems that it was just too painful yeah i remember reading a lot of that in like the wwe magazines you know but it felt if the saying was that it was very painful The game has your source. I can see that I can see it being like

I can see the safety hazards, right? Like I'm sure that many ACL or Achilles have been saved from like not having to like climb up and over the top and like jumping down and like, you know, and even some of like... you know if we're really being like steel cage snobs right now like

Even when you climbed over the top, nobody liked the person who just gently walked down and landed on his feet. You had to get to the top and jump or something. And I'm sure that had to be hell on your knees. I get that. I get that.

But it was so much easier to climb. There's so much more fun stuff he feels like they could do, even the paint, all the flips you could do off the side of that thing and whatever else. It was like going to a playground. I've never been to, you know, I got young kids and some of the playground stuff.

it's so big for you to use your hands and feet. It's like, Oh, like this is, this is what it would replicate. And you can't really do that with a chain link fence. I get that. That's probably a little bit more dangerous, but. Kevin Owens, God bless you. I hope he's feeling up. This is so something Kevin Owens would be like, nah, we're having a blue steel cage match. And you gotta climb over the top to get it. Like, he's one of the folks that I think would truly understand it. So I was...

I'm with Jesse on that, man. People thought he was ranting. I'm like, yes, it is. It is anticlimactic. He just walked out the door. I get it. You beat him up, you can walk out. I miss the drama of both guys climbing and you hitting them on one side and you hit them on the other side and like them fighting at the top of the cage and like who's going to fall back into the ring and then...

Oh my god, he's got a chance. Is he gonna climb down? Or is he gonna jump off the cage and do something? What is he gonna do? All that drama is just gone now. Because like... Why would you and imagine gonna win in the ring jump off the top of this? Why not just sprint?

Why not just push the guy in the corner that's opposite the door and then just run for the door. Anybody can make it out. Anybody can do that shit, right? That was the whole point of climbing the steel cage. It was a dilemma. It was like... Do I win this match or do I hate this guy so much? I'm risking it all. I'm just going to jump off him. Like, that's what made it awesome. Can't really do it that much anymore, but...

It is what it is. I stand with Jesse Ventura on that take. I didn't mind the ending overall. I like Drew. I think it helped Drew. I mean, sorry, I think it helped Damien. It looks like Drew's going to maybe take a little time off. And he'll come back angry. And I think by round three, we'll probably really care about this feud. Just keep on going. So that was good. What was your take on the scene and our truth and everything?

what was expected, right? Like, you kind of didn't think. I'm surprised the match was as long as it was, right? Four minutes and 25 seconds, you're expecting more of that? I was expecting it to be less than that.

like once it was coming on in the middle of the show i'm like oh he's gonna he's gonna he's gonna destroy him like this is definitely what's happening and um You know, like when the match started off and he just like closed on them before the bell rang, I'm like, yes, we're finally going to get the like vicious.

Cena, like we're finally going to show him like, yo, I can't do this to the fans, but I can do this to you. So when he just got at him, I was like, yes, do it, do it, do it. And then he went back into like,

the Cowardly oh my god hit him with the belt don't hit him with the belt Kicking the ball sort of thing. It's like, okay that's the route you're going they were not getting like a new level of anything with john cena when it comes to this to this to this to this last run right like it's i think we all kind of gotta start being real honest about ourselves with this with this retirement role of john cena right

i think a lot of us when we heard full-time all-year return from john cena i think a lot of us probably Silly of us for us to imagine. We're gonna get the John Cena of 13 years ago, who just had like the US title run, who was gonna go out and have all these great, incredible matches. We thought we were gonna get like a Bryan Danielson.

I appreciate you opening up about what's going on, what your expectations were. Not just my expectations. I think it was a lot of people's expectations. I think it was silly of us to think that. John Cena is pushing 50. He is mostly a Hollywood actor.

i mean the danielson thing is sacrilegious but that but setting that aside john cena's run as a good wrestler was about eight months right right that's what i'm saying like i think a lot of us had these high expectations about what this final run was gonna be like and I I don't know I think we live in a you know it's it's It is probably, we are probably or the people that think this way are probably the victims of highlight culture.

We probably just thought we were going to see John Cena having these incredible last-time-ever matches with some of the greatest wrestlers we've ever seen. And what he's doing is just telling a story. Manz is just telling a long story about his relationship with you, the fans, and everything that he's dedicated these 25 years to. Was it worth all of it?

And I think if you start looking at this run at that, if I was telling this story about his dealings with... fans whether it's why he's not a dad or like the people who idolize him or the people who told him he couldn't wrestle and like when you start to think about it on that terms it's like all right

I can see this being more of a table setter. Like when he saw Jey Uso after the match and it was talking like a robot and it was just like, Wouldn't it be crazy if I leave and I have this title and your titles on the on the on a youtuber It would feel like that ruined wrestling Ha ha ha. And then walked out, right? He's like, I'm glad you remember the last time we were next to each other. You tossed me out of the wrong room, but you kind of caused this whole thing. I get all that.

But I can see where this next chapter is going to go. Which is where? Which is... He brought up the I'm going to ruin wrestling thing again. And he's tag teaming with Logan Paul in two weeks in Los Angeles. I get the feeling they're going to win this match, right? I get the feeling like the two Hollywood guys, the two guys that don't have respect for quote unquote this business anymore, blah, blah, blah, but are mega stars in spite of it.

are gonna have a match and i think they're gonna win they're gonna beat the guys that are all about this place the quarterback and the yeet man right so like it's it's

It's building towards someone's redemption. Whether it's Cena's or the guy who ends up beating Cena, it's building towards someone's redemption. But I think my expectations of like... for this like retirement runner like out the window now yeah it's just like yeah that's not that's not happening chief like it's just Yeah, there's not a man classic left and I don't think this conversation like Mexico all right watch and then goes out and just has one just a spite

A Spike classic or something like that. But I just think, just being realistic, that's not anything fair to expect from him at this point. No, I think he's very aware. I mean, I think that's why he's having the kind of match that he's having. He's having the matches that he's having, right? I mean... It's not like they're booking him to be a great wrestler and then he's missing dropkicks. Like you said, they're just booking story here. That's totally it.

So we got John Cena and Logan Paul sort of teaming up because Jey Uso beat Logan Paul. Then John Cena ran in and beat him up. And then Cody came in. Even the odds. Um... What, is that good business? Yeah. Yeah, it is. I mean, James, you got four of the most popular guys you could put in a tag team match. It's Los Angeles. Are we going to get any title matches? at money in the bank you know that's that's

I guess Becky versus Lyra will happen again. So the women's IC belt. Even though the tag team match is like, all right, it is what it is. You got four of the most popular guys back. in a match having to have money in the bank sort of like opens up the possibility like well somebody gonna cash in during this match like is there gonna be something sure somebody who works his way into this like john cena pathway like You know, that's sort of...

You know money in the bank has sort of been like a midsummer reset for WWE kind of like the Royal Rumble is where it's like now I can create a new you know street fighter like a new challenger has appeared for you know uh whoever john cena uh goes up again I think there's a lot more clear pass than Jay. I think, you know, being on Raw kind of makes it easy. I think whoever wins that Money in the Bank briefcase is going to figure a way to...

Put Cena on his back foot a little bit. Like, he's kind of too in control right now. I think now you got a guy who, whoever comes out of there and wins that briefcase, now you have a reason for Cena to kind of watch his back a little bit and see what's going to happen there.

Yeah, it's not lost on me that this tag team match is happening in that Money in the Bank because that kind of like opens your eyes like, all right, well, depending on what time this is in the car and if you have a Money in the Bank winner. Some shit could go down during this match. That's not just, you know, you guys want to tag team. We have a lot of time to talk about money in the bank. Yep.

Wait, do you think this is Travis Scott's spot that's been rumored and Travis just didn't make the cut? Travis didn't pass his physical? What do you think is going on here? I don't know. If he just started wrestling, if he just started training... at the Elimination Chamber in February and is expected to have a match in June. I've got a great question. Cold open question of the week. Redux. I think what's happened here is Travis Scott's already done his thing. And...

On some level, John Cena's heel shtick is just not working. And then there's probably some people back there who are not saying, well, how can we do this differently? They're saying, how can we get him booed better? And the answer is Logan Paul. Okay, I can see that. In all of WWE, if you were assembling a faction solely for the purpose of getting John Cena booed, You're starting with Travis Scott and Logan Paul. Who else is worthy of that mantle? Brian, do you have any ideas?

Like, Heyman can get people booed out of respect, but just to get people freaking booed. Like, go away, he booed. Damn, I can't think of... I think Logan Paul is the only person in wrestling that people truly do not like. Right. Like, I think there's heels. I think there's cool heels. I think there's people who we respect as heels, so we boo them. But as far as, like, people that wrestled that truly are in that dislike...

And are willing to be disliked in real life. I don't think anybody's touching Logan Paul. Okay, no one's going to get Logan Paul, but let's say you have to add three people to this faction. Okay. Just to get the boos. Just to get more boos. Yeah. Man, alright, I'd say... I'll go Charlotte Flair. that's another one i mean it's just because adding him to any group as if like it's a big game changer

Man, I don't know. I feel like anybody who's a heel right now don't really commit to being hated. I know, it's tough. They just kind of play the role of being a heel. Nia Jax, maybe? Yeah. She'd fit in. But I don't know if her and Charlotte make a good stable. If this would have been three months ago, I would have said Karrion Kross. I was going to say New Day. If it had been three months ago, you would have said The New Day. Yeah. True, true, true.

You can still probably fit the New Day in there too. The New Day would actually kind of gel. That would not be a terrible idea. Yeah, and now the crazy thing is... I say this with all love and respect. More so than any point in recent memory, the best person to put in the faction to get John Cena boot is The Rock. I mean...

That's a fact. Mostly because he hasn't been in the storyline, right? I mean, that's it. If he had been around, we would all be saying like, oh, we love you, but we're going to boot it. No, no, no. Now if The Rock came back, it would just be like, boo, boo, boo. Apparently Ron DeSantis is another one that could be a member of the faction. They got a bunch of boos on Saturday. But yeah. So anyway.

you know who's not getting booze tiffany stratton jeez louise overlay rover called it man that was her story she looks on on smackdown it's so crazy to watch smackdown we're going to get to NXT, I swear. But forever, SmackDown was just Cody Rhodes. It was just the Cody Rhodes show. Cody and whoever he was fooding with was like half the show. Now it's a show about tag team wrestling and women's wrestling.

And it's weird to see them sort of like finding their footing there. Not weird in a bad way, just like it's interesting to see them kind of remake on the fly. The SmackDown Tag Team Division, which has been operating at like on all cylinders.

with the machine guns, with DIY, with Street Profits, now has a new, apparently, there's a new... group and that's who are messing with the tag division some new people to reckon with and that's the wyatt six I guess it was no surprise that Candice LeRae appeared as part of DIY for the first time in forever because Nikki Cross needs somebody to, like, you know, attack.

I kind of like the idea of, like, the, you know, the SmackDown tag team division is a real Warcraft division. They could use a couple of crazy freaks, and they've got some good tag team options there. You know, I mean, there's a... There always is some crazy freaks.

well what's the do you think that there's is this a new version of the wyatt sex where we're just like gonna actually like wrestle or you know just like or are we gonna keep trying to find some deeper meaning for these guys no i think they're gonna wrestle i think they're Well, I think one thing you said makes a lot of sense, right? SmackDown is a tag team show now. It's the tag team show that occasionally has Cody Rhodes and John Cena on. But it's really the shows that main event most of the...

Most of the newsworthy things that happen there that are are like tag team title matches or like tag team matches So add in the y6 in there that's another tactic that people care about people have been wanting to see them back people wanting to see how they fit into the grand scape of Smackdown with Alexa Bliss being back in there like well how does that all sort of work out so

Funny enough, the Wyatt Six is just kind of like Bray Wyatt. Bray Wyatt, as great as they were, as great as their presentation is. They're a little difficult to book. They're a lot difficult to book. They're a little difficult to book because it's like when you're supernatural, you have to establish dominance. Somebody that has to be real fair of what you guys do or else you're just...

Playing with the production truck is just like okay smoking lights whatever like you gotta win you have to win so Smackdown being the tag team show. Perfect opportunity for the wide 60 to get people to care about them because they'll be able to main event shows They'll be able to have these great matches on go homes right before pay-per-views that people watch like

you know, and if it's done well enough, all right, like then it gets elevated into like a premium live event show. But as it stands right now, like. the wide six have had so many sort of stop starts that like, we need them to sort of like be a big deal in this tag team division for folks to even get remotely invested. They have to either be big parts of this tag team division or tie into whatever's going on with Alexa Bliss somehow for us to even like.

for people to even care like let's get to that step first i don't deny i don't doubt that they'll get to alexa bliss at some point but i'm just sort of in the like well i'm not gonna bother discussing it until it actually happens territory with her I don't need a fantasy book, this Alexa Bliss, Wyatt Six thing, any more than has already been done.

I don't mean to- be too harsh about it but that's sort of what i feel i'm kind of over it too but they kind of gotta address it though like eventually and they're very clearly locked into this tag team division thing so it's like how long do they Ignore that elephant in the room. I don't know. No, it's true. All right. Was there anything else from Friday night that we need to discuss? Sorry, I have like a million notes. Oh, yeah. Julia and L.A. Knight are officially in the Money in the Bank.

match at their respective Money in the Bank matches. We got Sola Sokoa, LA Knight, Pinta, Seth Rollins. Pinta and Seth Rollins both won their weigh-in last night and two more TBDs. Um... It'll be interesting to see where they go with that. The men's or the women's? Both, but I was talking about the men's.

I mean, it would be kind of funny to have like Bronson Reed and Braun Breaker and the Money in the Bank match, but I don't know if Solo, if that really fits in with the rest of the people that are there. Alexa. Roxanne Perez, Rhea Ripley, Julia. And then two TBDs there. If all we got, we got to move. We got it. We're not going to spend any more time on money in the bank, but good luck on Julia, by the way.

That was a huge, huge win for her, such as it was. The new girls getting their big wins, man. Roxanne, Julia. hell um uh gosh yeah that's that's big for them if you if it was gonna be for one of the four people in both matches who won Dolce Coale, LA Knight, Pinta, Seth Rollins on the one side, Alexa Bliss, Roxanne Perez, Ray Ripley, and Julia on the other side. Who do you have?

Penta as Mr. Money in the Bank would be the funnest, funnest outcome by far. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I'm sure storyline reasons like Seth Rollins might make a lot of sense. No disrespect to Solo Sokova and LA Knight. I don't necessarily see them winning it. But Penta by far... There's the funnest potential Mr. Or Mrs. Money in the Bank right now. Now, at the risk of offending people,

Is Penta... Is it mandatory that he go by senior money in the bank because Damien Priest has established the tradition? Uh... Maybe. I hope that's the last time anyone ever used that phrase. I think that's canon now. That's cursed. Yeah, but nah. He would be cool with it. um so i think so i i can just imagine solo If somehow Solo, with all of his help, with all of his dudes, can pull off that win,

That could be something. That could be something. Imagine the heat. That's actually the guy who should be in John Cena's crew. Because Solo Sokoa gets those boos, man. John Cena's a body to many Samoans for him, too. Yeah, that's true. ever be down with them. He's got to be op number one from the Fatus and the Hawaii family.

can you believe just the level of just general pacific islander dominance that we have right now that you got like bronson reed is not like for a minute he was in the bloodline Yeah, he's like a Pacific Islander adjacent.

yeah he's actually Samoan right like he's actually got some Samoan he's got Samoan family despite being from Australia but yeah he came back and they're just like no no no we're just not we're gonna put him in something totally different neither of the existing bloodlines we're just gonna put them in something else man um anyway

I think Sola Sakoa with the briefcase would be pretty interesting. It's crazy that Seth Rollins is in it, and I mean, just because he's so elite, again, doesn't need this for a title shot, one would think. But it's a big look for the match. He wants it just for the control that it brings. Yeah, exactly. And on the women's side, I think... Roxanne Perez man Rock Beach because of what that could do to the Judgment Day

So they're playing a lot of hits. They're replaying a lot of hits. There's a lot of cover songs going on the Judgment Day all of a sudden, you know, with all the Dom stuff. I think that would make the most sense to me. Although I have a visual of Julia with the briefcase that just looks right. I don't know. Anyway, let's talk about backlash.

uh battleground battleground what did i say backlash backlash and then we're going to talk about worlds come on because there's uh we got a lot of scheduling stuff to talk about moving forward is there what do you want to talk about on battleground defeated Kalani Jordan. Yeah. Still your North American Women's Champion. That was a really good match. Solrock is one of those, she just shows out every time. I kind of like, she kind of fades in my memory a little bit.

Feels like it's going to be a little bit empty calories with her. And then I really enjoy the matches. So whatever. The best tag team match in the world. Hank and Tank and Josh Briggs won their match. Here we get into the stuff that we talked about. I was right. I called it. Stax beat Tony. Yes. Tony D had a moment of conscience.

A couple of moments of conscience when he could have theoretically put it away. It seemed like the family was turning on him by the end. He'd lost control of the family and then he lost the match. I don't know if this is call-up time for Tony D'Angelo or Tony D'Angelo tries to find himself on NXT outside of this, but I do. I feel more convinced than ever that the family will continue. Tony D'Angelo will do his own thing. But that was a lot of fun. I thought that was a good match.

Yeah, Tony D'Angelo. Who do you like better, Sax or Tony? Tony D'Angelo is such a ready-made main roster character and wrestler. That's a guy who will... He could theoretically be where LA9 is right now. Maybe not in a level of like over but I mean like every TV show every Raw or Smackdown he has a match he has a promo he has a character like that's what you that's what development's for like find out who you are

be a dependable dude in the ring and help move stories forward he's done all that so i don't know if it's time to call him up quite yet but if he was he i think he'd fit in like a glove like you'd have to do a lot of Stories around them you would have to just I would hope it wouldn't just put them in the ring and not explain that this dude was like a mob boss and all this type of stuff. I'm sure there'd be lots of TV real estate.

Given out for vignettes and all that type of stuff, but I like Tony D a lot man And he's and he's been there for a while. I think he's ready. He's part of that broad breaker Carmelo Hayes class like He should be good to go whenever they feel like it's his time. Yeah, I've said it too many times at this point, but he's got real big dog energy in real life. And I just think he's a dude. And again, I think we've had this conversation a hundred times. I slightly dissent from your point of view.

I don't think you can come to the main roster and be a mob boss. I don't think that really works. I think you gotta scale it back a little bit. You know, what's a level below mob boss? Does he come in as like a guy from the old neighborhood?

i lived in brooklyn for a long time i lived down in carroll gardens which is just like you know the most italian neighborhood and or old school italian neighborhood in carroll gardens there's still a lot of guys a lot of 60, 70, 80 year old Italian dudes hanging around there.

who would go set in like the front the the little you know the lawn chair yeah the lawn chair on their like four by eight front patio or whatever you know the front yard of the brown zone they bought for like fifteen thousand dollars not that long ago and is now worth three million dollars they have like they're sunning themselves getting the dark tan and

You ask them something and they just sort of, all of their responses are like 75% pause, like pregnant pause. You're just like, they're like, well. and then you're just sitting there like am i supposed was i supposed to talk those dudes and also but but also these dudes are like

There was one guy, like, there was a candy shop over on Smith Street that was, like, legitimately the front of a bookkeeping operation that got busted when I was living there. Like, it was, like, crazy. So that was real. I'm sure they're making...

you know, 200 bucks a day back at the time. All I'm saying is they're a bunch of old dudes in the neighborhood that where the mom probably wasn't doing a whole lot anymore, but still carried themselves like they came from that, you know, and like their, their kids sort of carried themselves like they came from that. That's the sort of. You know, you can be a little bit of a man at a time, but I'm not. But it's like, come on.

It's sort of like the staple gun that we got to, you got to do the staple gun version of this. You're not going to off somebody. Right. You don't have, and also what we've. Tony D'Angelo is not leading the mob. He has two dudes.

and one young lady that followed him and the one and two and and and when when two listen if tony if two of tony soprano's guys were like uh we're not feeling this anymore then tony would just call in 400 other dudes to murder them like it's not this would not be that big of a deal this is not a mob this is a faction right Anyway, I'm ranting too much. I just want him to be like... I kind of want to see him now if you kind of just bring him in as a criminal who's like...

Dom that in jail or something like canonically like that's the big house like Tony they knew a guy who knew a guy or something like You can always tell that story again if you bring him up from the main roster without necessarily being like, oh, he's a mob boss again. Exactly. Whatever it is. Okay. All right. I feel you. You are felt, sir. I appreciate that, man. It feels good to be felt. It's a good one.

So yeah, but I think he's absolutely ready. And I really enjoyed that match. I just like watching that guy ruzzle. Stephanie Vaquer defeated Jordan Grace. Jordan Grace, by the way, should be part of John Cena's All Boo's Posse just for breaking up the devil's kiss and sending the crowd home unhappy. We talked to Jordan last week. If you guys didn't see it, she's great to talk to.

She looked really good in this match, but she wasn't going to win. She wasn't going to beat Stephanie Vaqueror. Zoe's just the biggest star on this show. If not her, it's the next guy, Obafemi, who beat Miles Bourne. in a very, very good match. Miles Bourne really showed out. But Ova won. And Ova gave him the nod of respect afterwards. And then in the main event, the fact that this was the main event, I think, kind of projected what was going on here. Of course. Patrick, what? Me to Joe Hendry.

Can I predict this one too? I feel like I at least winked at it. I'd definitely call it. Trickster new TNA champion. i think the only the only the real argument against it was like could joe hendry possibly be put through this again after losing all the people that were upset that he lost to Randy Orton at WrestleMania. What nonsense that was. But now that this is going to happen. I mean, listen. Trick Williams is TNA champion. Has a lot of juice.

Um, and Joe Hendry is now in the position of, you know, having something to conquer, having something to reclaim. Um, what was the base? So it was Chuck Williams. He was in your MVP list. It's a bigger win for him than for Obafemi is Obafemi. Before we get to Trek, Obafemi beating when I was born wasn't the girl. Obafemi is low-key putting together one of those runs where I'm not going to try to put him and bruv in the same sentence here.

But at the end of the year when we're just like, what WWE wrestler is the wrestler of the year? And I don't think Obafemi is nearly as good in the ring as probably 20 other dudes I could very quickly name. He might have the best 2025 so far. Every match he has is a big match, and every single one has 11.

like this is like a you you've compared him to gunter you've compared him to gunter before he's obviously not a gunter level wrestler but like this is one of those gunter like gunter 2024 2023 well both years really but 2023 is one thing but it's like

We're like, it's just every time he gets in the ring, you're just like, that's it. That's as good as that could possibly have been. All right. Another notch, you know, like it's crazy. Yeah. He's definitely not Jordan going through. Maybe not in sense of like wrestling skill just cause.

Experience I would say I don't think there's anything separating go there and all the family except that which is massive but On top of that man Obafemi you mentioned like not only he has big matches and those matches deliver a big factor into why he's Nigerian Gunther is that like you know he's going to win. To still have matches that are exciting and watchable, and you kind of know he's going to win the match. Every time. Every time.

that's special that's a special thing you got there it's got and and which makes you an even bigger star like because whoever becomes that guy is immediately established right like even like miles born gets to look good and he's a star now just because he hung with all the family and

Maybe a couple of people didn't know who he was two or three months ago. All right. Like, so that speaks to how great Oba has been. Now it's going to be, you're talking about wrestlers of the year, people who are going to have. award-winning years at the end of this.

There's going to be wrestling snobs that turn their nose up at you comparing Will Asprey to Obafemi. No, I did not. I said it specifically. I'm not comparing Will Asprey to Obafemi. I'm not saying Obafemi is one of the best wrestlers in the world. I think that would be borderline sacrilege. But he's going to be, like, there is a real reasonable case for WWE Wrestler of the Year just because of the matches that he's had. But yeah, without a doubt, man.

The NXT Championship has some serious lineage, right? I think people still kind of look at it as this developmental title, but it's like, even when you go back, a lot of people's best runs... are still the stuff they did at NXT. So like...

I think if you have that championship for any length of time, you're automatically talked about as one of the best wrestlers on the planet. It's not even a question. I don't care if you just started wrestling last week. You hold that title, you're one of the best in the game. right now right like so um i think i think the way people still look at it as like this developmental like nothing title is a way that to sort of

you know, put hierarchies on what titles mean the most. And I don't think NXT is that far below what a WWE champion can do or an AEW champion could do right now. Like all those guys. you name me the fast the last five or seven or eight nxt world champions and they can go anywhere on the planet and be considered one of the best in the world just because they were nxt champion at one point you know so it's like

He'll get some MVP votes this year. I don't know if he'll win it, but he'll definitely get, like, you know. Obafemi's got to continue our basketball now just because we love it. Obafemi's got that Edwards energy where it's like, he's not the MVP, but like... You tune in to watch that guy because that dude is special to watch, right? So he'll get some MVP votes. He'll probably be even first team All-NBA, but he's not really the MVP. But when it's time for me to...

spend money to go watch a guy do something. He's one of the guys at the top of the list. Yeah, I think that's a great way to put it. But let's talk about the guy that really matters, Trick Williams, your new CNA champion. How long do you think this is going to go?

Oh man, that's a good question. I don't know. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say a nice summer run i would say like right up until the end of the summer i could see i could see trick dropping the title to somebody either in tna or uh nxt so it's not like he's gonna lose it i think it's really like does he lose it in the next two weeks I don't think so. I wouldn't. I mean, listen.

you said it trick williams tna champion has real buzz to it like we always talk about the difference between great wrestlers and wrestlers that are stars and this is the perfect example right there on sunday night What were wrestling fans talking about the most? The best wrestler and a star wrestler. You know what I mean?

Trick Williams is a star wrestler, man. There's been lots of things said about Trick over the past... year or two whether it was his championship run or his match quality as champion and all this type of stuff and he's had to go through that right like you kind of have to go through that when you're About to be a top dude and I compare him to Roman Reigns a lot like if you watch the early Roman

If you watch like big dog Aaron Roman, like you all, we all saw what we see. We all like, okay, this dude is definitely going to be it.

But he's got to figure some things out before he's out of there like that. Same sort of athleticism, same sort of... offense same sort of like can't teach charisma that you know only certain folks have but there's that combination of youth and inexperience that I think Roman and Trick both had at the same time, that Trick had to go through those moments of not necessarily being trusted. As it, dude.

who can, like, put on these, like, classic wrestling performances now because it's a star wrestler. Yeah, somebody compared, I mean, we've said it a million times in the show, I feel like, but somebody made the comparison between Trek and John Cena, which is just... Yeah, yeah, yeah. you know just so ridiculous i mean i mean not ridiculous but like it's so out there i mean it's it's it's such high praise you can't even yeah you can't even rate it but roman reigns is actually a really good comp

from where they both were sort of at that point in their career. Yeah.

so yeah so i think it's not my fault so i say all that to say uh i think he holds on to it for for a little while i think i think like two to three months as TNA champion, it gives TNA some buzz it gives those pay-per-views that have been drawn from really good houses some real energy behind it now this nxt tna thing feels legit it feels like a real like oh anything could really happen now if an nxt guy won their tna title so it's like all right what's the get back like i think now

You have an opportunity. You can probably send a TNA guy over to NXT, have them win one of their titles. Like Mike Santana or whatever. Like Mike Santana. Like any of these dudes, you know? So now it's like real. Now this partnership. alliance whatever it is now it feels real that's why i think you don't change the title in like two weeks or anything like that it has to feel like something substantial and

Trick is kind of the perfect guy to kind of bridge those NXT and TNA audiences. I'm sure that pie chart or Venn diagram is still pretty much the same, but... He's the type of wrestler to be the answer to the trivia question in 20 years. He's like, who was the guy who was the first NXT wrestler to win? TNA world champion oh easy that's trick Williams yeah I mean so it's true perfect perfect opportunity and for Joe Henry too right like

I know there's going to be people that are going to be like, oh my God, what kind of partnership is it if we send our champion over there and it gets beat by a guy who's not even your champion? It's like, wow. Joe Henry!

is very popular. And I think his popularity got him the championship. But I don't think we should confuse Joe Hendrick for some world beater who can't lose to anybody. That's not who he is. He is a guy who... relies on the power of the people and viral songs and like he can wrestle a bit but he's not

Brock Lesnar. He's not Gunther. He's not some dude who should never lose just because he's the champion. Trickle-Him's perfect guy for him to drop the title to. Perfect guy for them to go back and forth with. And I think he'll be just fine. It's about the entirety of this NXT TNA thing and not just about Joe Hendry. Yeah, I agree with that. Totally agree. Well? I think that's it for the real wrestling. I can't believe we made it that far. Can we talk a little bit about the scheduling stuff?

We alluded to it earlier. In his Double or Nothing press conference, Tony Khan said that WWE and its counter-programming strategies is the most consistent event head-to-head scheduling since Jim Crockett promotions when WWE and Vince McMahon were doing everything they could to put JCP out of business. Keeping them off pay-per-view, all that kind of stuff.

There have been a few of these instances so far. It wasn't just Battleground running on the same night as Double or Nothing. They're doing a show in Mexico just like three days before Grand Slam Mexico. They are at a Saturday night's main event playing for the same day as all in Texas, but it's not just that anymore. WWE announced today that they're running Great American Bash.

On the same day as Saturday night's main event. On the same day as All In. I guess they're going to do Great American Bash. from the same venue just earlier and then segue right into Saturday night's main event? Is that what's going on here? I'm taking this as AEW's biggest show of the year. Definitely. And WWE is going to be like... Oh, are you guys doing something?

You had a show that weekend? Oh, I mean, we have shows every weekend. This is like if we show up for WrestleMania back in Vegas next year. And all of a sudden you start seeing flyers for like David Mania that's going on Thursday night at some club. Oh, you were doing something on a Thursday? Oh, you had a something planned? Oh, sorry about that, guys. That's awkward. Except David doesn't have the same cachet as Wale. I think it's reversed.

That's lies, Dave. You can sell out the Palladium just by yourself. No, it's actually kind of like WWE just throwing giant club parties the same night. As you're doing Wale Mania. Actually, that's probably the better example. So you can speak from personal experience. I can. I can. So that would be just like big timing, big footing, big... big ball ring all over everything. You know what, Dave? And speaking from personal experience, running programming alongside or countering WWE has been

Good business? Good to me. It's been good to me. Now, there's definitely a couple of hurdles that you got to hurdle through, like any showmaker you're doing. But I think ultimately... It was good, because as a fan, There was things for me to do and watch as a wrestling fan. If I'm somebody looking for somebody, the reason why Wally Mania is even a thing is because that Thursday night was so open for... anybody to just do anything that night Obviously, WWE saw the same way, right? Like, so...

With AEW and WWE running the same shows, I have to look at it through a fan perspective. Do I know if it's good business for AEW? Does it take away from the all-in or anything like that? I don't know. It's not my business. I don't know what their ticket sales is, but... I think it should be fine.

Because to me, as a wrestling fan... Well, at this point, they're still about ticket sales. I think it's about biting the pay-per-view buy. And WWE obviously has the advantage of being a free broadcast. Well, free if you're... Me, as a wrestling fan, I'll look at it like I looked at it this Sunday. This is a great night to be a wrestling fan.

That's all it is to me. I love that they're both on at the same time. I love that whatever is worth watching again is going to be the stuff that sticks with you anyway. so like if battleground and all in and double and nothing to happen at the same time and literally on one screen we have soul ruka and kalani jordan and on my other screen i have mercedes and jamie hater I'm literally going to watch both at the same time and then be like, oh, oh, oh.

Top rope soul snatcher. I'm gonna let me pull this up or if there's a clip that goes crazy like I'm a fan The counter-programming means absolute dick to me because I get to watch both. Fair enough, but it doesn't mean dick to Tony Khan, presumably. Do you feel like it doesn't mean dick to you? Do you feel like it's sort of a dick move? by wwe to be deliberately programming all this stuff a little bit a little bit but there's also that part of you that

Says, all right, let's go then. Like, as a competitor, like, of course it's a dick move. I mean, by the way, they're running the Triple Mania show right before Grand Slam Megasco, but that's already after... wwe had previously bought a mexican wrestling company triple a right and decided to run their own worlds collide pay-per-view the week like a week and a half before theirs right yeah yeah i mean listen

it's everybody's competing for the eye right now and honestly if I'm WWE and I see that my third brand is going to get a little bit of a boost or a little bit of attention because it's running the same time as your competitor's brand or the show that's also in the same demographic of audience that you're trying to get at. I understand why he would want to run a show on the same way. If anything...

It's kind of digging up AEW. It's kind of showing that this crowd is going to help us. They'll never outright say that. i don't think they'll ever outright just be like hey like aw's existence kind of helps our business but a blind man would be able to see that like nobody It speaks to the health of wrestling, watching in general, and obviously, AEW's mere existence, even...

The fact that it even exists. Oh, and by the way, this isn't even a... Clash in Paris is a week after Forbidden Door in London. You guarantee WWE touring through London at the same time. Like, we're just doing... They're just... Like... Dude. The WWE booking department, whoever's scheduling all these events...

has never had it easier. They just got to look at what AEW is doing and just, like, try to book on top of it. Like, it's... They'll never admit it to each other, but it is Batman joker. Well, it's funny. At this point, it's gotten funny. They made each other. At this point, they don't have to admit it, and it's... It's funnier if they don't. It's funnier if they deny it. Yes, absolutely. But up until the past couple weeks,

It was just irritating when they wouldn't admit it. I mean, it's just sort of nuts, man. It's this old shit. This is as old as pro wrestling. This is the Vince McMahon model. You hire all the stars away from... you know st louis then you go run in st louis like on the same night or you know or whatever you you counter program maybe maybe you paper the whole thing so everybody can go for free just all you want to do is just like

Put the other guy out of business. But here's the one thing, though. Tony Khan said it's not going to go that way. And I think... I don't think it is either. I think that's ultimately... helps the health of the wrestling business because Tony Khan has assets that those previous people did not have, right? Oh, for sure. Plain and simply. So I think in what we can look at it and be like, oh, they're trying to put AWI in business, they're trying to sell less tickets, they're trying to...

you know, take money off the table. I'm seeing it as you got a guy who runs AEW who is saying, all right, let's go. Like I can go toe to toe with you guys. Like when it comes to bringing a show and as a wrestling fan. You are, you're the winner. You're the one who wins out of all this. Like, I love that they're doing competing shows. I love that they're doing council programming because at the end of the day, they're both.

they're gonna try and put on the better show and as a wrestling fan what more could you ask for it is it is I hate channel switching sometimes. You know what I mean? Channel switching was a lot more fun in the cable era. I'll just say that. It was a very old man complaint. Now you got to like...

Toggle out of one app and go to another app, grab multiple things going. It takes forever. We got our MacBooks, dog. We got to put the hierarchy on the screens, man. My screen hierarchy on Sunday was Nick's big TV, double or nothing laptop. battleground cell phone when the Knicks went down by 20 double or nothing get the big screen Knicks got the laptop battleground was on the cell phone But Trick Williams and Joe Hedger are about to wrestle. Wait. Thanks, Corian.

When the Knicks went up by 20? When the Knicks went down by 20. Oh, went down by 20. When they went down by 20, they went back down to the laptop. They already got a bunch of 20-point comebacks. I'm like, all right, I'll put it on the laptop just in case that happens. Of course I have. when Trey Williams and Joe Henry. started to wrestle. When the final sequence came on, I'm like, all right, big TV for this match.

I think the game was over already. And, you know, I went to a little screen for the MacBook, whatever. Once that was over, I got uninterrupted. Will Ospreay, Hangman Adam Page. It was the perfect wrestling experience. For me, any great match that I feel like I needed to watch again, I could go there and watch again. But it's 2025. You walk around the house with at least a minimum of three screens on you every day.

You can figure it out unless you're going to the stadium or going to the arena. Anybody comparing about there being too much wrestling on TV is stupid. Watch all of it. Enjoy what you want. And if it sucks, hey. Talk about that too, but I'm not going to complain. It's true. Yeah. Well, you know, we should start counter-programming too. We'll just... We're only going to schedule our podcast. Who is our competition? I don't even know. I mean, I've tried to do this before.

busted open uh inside daily show i'm out yeah hey listen that's i look at the charts i don't even look at dailies or whatever it's like yo whoever's above No, maybe we should just start scheduling live podcasts. for the same time as pay-per-views, but we're not, well, I'll show Jackson. I'll show Jackson. I'll take that. I'll take any, anything to be in the same sentence as Den of Thieves. Uh,

We should just start having live podcasts at the same time as pay-per-views, but they're not watch-alongs. They're just live podcasts about the stuff that happened in the previous days. So we're just competing. That would be terrible. Anyway, before we get out of here... We should say something that WWE has managed not to say over the past week, which is best wishes to JR, who is officially going into surgery, cancer surgery today.

We talked about him on the press box. I don't remember. I'm sure. I think we talked about it when the news first broke on here. What a run of, I mean, it seems like what a run of bad luck this dude's have. I mean, I think that there's a lot of people and we all have like people in our. you know, friends from way back where it just seems like a string of bad luck because that's the only time that we hit them off.

he's been living a life too and like i'm sure he's had many joyous things happen but this is it seems like he's had a string of of you know illness and injury and tragedy and everything else and this is just another one but uh we're saying jr is such a legend. The pro wrestling world would not be the same without him. Pro wrestling fandom would not be the same without him. Most of our greatest memories would not be the same without Jim. is absolutely the best. And...

And yeah, I hope WWE shouts him out. Yeah. Because that seems like a thing that, you know. I think Jim Ross transcends wrestling, man. I'm not trying to eulogize him at all or anything like that, but I forgot who said it. I think it was. I think it was Bill. But it says something along the lines of like... We talk about the greatest American sportscasters, greatest voices in sports history. It's like...

Howard Cosell, like Marv Albert, you know what I mean? John Madden, Jim Ross, right? Like he's on that, he's on that list. And Jim Ross is, he's, i've had i've had like you know some interactions with him over the years he was at the first wally mania uh famously um I have to smoke an L with him on a bus on Sohojo. And man, Jim Ross is... one-of-a-kind human being who's just an absolute legend.

It does suck to hear about the string of health setbacks he's had over the years. But like you said, man's of the hell of a life and we can look at it as the dudes have a bunch of setbacks and we can look at it as this dude is resilient as hell and has come back from a lot of shit and I have no doubt that he's gonna come back from this.

So, you know, health, all speed and health and prayers over to good old JR. And, man, can't wait to hear you call into more wrestling matches, dude. So I hope you hear a lot, bro. Yeah, I mean, I think he's probably suffered from people's memory of him and from the expectations that were set by those memories and everything else. You know, when he popped up in AEW, everyone's just like, it's just like pro wrestlers.

You know, it's like we have them frozen in our mind at a certain point in their history.

And so, you know, when John Cena comes back looking exactly the same and then he can't wrestle the way he used to, we're just like, what is going on? Why is he sandbagging? Is it me? And Jim Ross, you know, by the time he got to AEW, wasn't... peak jim ron wasn't like attitude or jim ross anymore you know but he's actually found his niche there and i think you know i think he's he's found a way to really be the best version of himself and to improve all the product that he announces on so anyway

Best wishes to Jim Ross. He's a freaking national treasure. I think that's it. I think we managed to get through everything. We didn't do Tessa Blanchard versus the table, but I think we can worry about that later. Do you want to get some plugs in, Cass? And a new episode of 7pm in Brooklyn. And...

Did a crossover episode with Podcast P. So myself, Paul George, Carmelo Anthony, out right now. If you missed last week's episode with Amari Stoudemire and Rudy Gay, that's out on the podcast streams right now. My podcast, Say Less With Kaz, Loki and Rosie. Uh, it's out right now on the episode to drop today. And, uh, yeah, that's it. He's still Podcast P. That's the official name here. He's still Podcast P, man.

It's an interesting listen. Go check it out if you get a chance. Especially if you're a Philly sports fan. You need to check that one out. All right. I'm sure I'll be hearing about it secondhand on philly radio before too long um brian yep i want to thank you but did you have a favorite wrestling moment of the weekend Hmm, that's a great question. It's got to be true. Really? Yeah. Everything that happened.

Yeah, because that was something I really, like, really, really wanted that. Like, there's sometimes where I can actually just go into just fan mode and, like, really root for somebody. Okay. And that was one of those moments. All right. Fair enough. And there's nothing really beats a title change that whoops that trick playing in the background. It's like, as long as you get to that, man, it is nuts. I don't disagree with that. Oh, yeah.

All right. Well, thank you, Kaz. Thanks to our producer, Brian H. Waters. Thanks to our EP, Ben Cruz. Thank you all for listening to all of this. Thank you all for loving wrestling like we do. Finn Balor's going to be okay. Hey, man, there were some moments last night where I was like, Finn Balor's about to be really okay. He's about to be in this money in the... But guess what? Finn Balor's going to be okay. We'll see you back here on Thursday.