Folks, it's J Kyle Mann from The Ringer. And as always, basketball is so freaking, freaking good. It's so good, in fact, that The Ringer of the best and the brightest prospects in the 2025 NBA draft class. From Cooper Flagg to Dylan Harper to BJ Edgecombe and more. Tap in with me on the Ringer NBA Draft Show every Wednesday and make sure that you follow, subscribe, and hit us. Cold open question of the week. Kaz. What up, shoes? Last night, the Los Angeles Lakers were eliminated.
from the NBA playoffs. At the end of the day, who's going to have a better career? LeBron James or John Cena? Oh, wow. Oh, wow. say a 17-time world champion. Oh, come on. Just say the world champion. Make this interesting. No. Like... I love, no. No. If LeBron James, I love using this. this example. But if LeBron James woke up one day with John Cena's money, he'd wonder what the hell happened to his life. He'd wonder how bad shit got in his life. No, no, no, no, no.
No, I'll take LeBron's life and success over John Cena's success 10 times out of 10 times. Is there any wrestler you can make the LeBron case for? The Rock is the only one you can make the comparison to. Because he's successful in multiple fields and everything else? Yeah, that and just the money, man. I don't think...
I don't think you can really put into proper context how freaking rich LeBron James is, right? He is a billionaire with a B. A billionaire with a B. Of all the pro athletes in the history of pro-athleting, there's literally only been, if you count on your one hand, how many of them has made a billion dollars with a B. with their sport of choice being the main driving force behind.
Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, it's Magic Johnson. It's not a lot of people. Jordan, I mean, Jordan, it's shoes and investment. Yeah, that was way after his playing days. LeBron is still playing. If I'm a billionaire, the type of mental fortitude you need to have to be a billionaire and still compete. in a game that You don't really need the money for her. That's something completely, completely different, Ben.
a John Cena level of accomplishment. No, LeBron clearly is more successful than John Cena. I'm sorry, John. And I love John. I think John would probably agree. I think this is because I was thinking about this question myself and I think this is what makes me a little bit uncomfortable with the... John Cena is the greatest of all time part of the retirement tour I just feel like we should reach a little bit higher for our greatest of all time
How so? Like, what's the heist? I don't know. I just feel like if you absolutely cannot make the case that he's on par with a LeBron James, then we'll just skip that part. You know what? So we just don't even mention it no more. Yeah. Well, I mean, I agree. I mean, I don't know if you could say The Rock is the greatest of all time. I mean, I think. Because there's so much of The Rock, if you're going to make that comparison, so much of that comes from the movies and everything else.
And also, it's the same argument we've been making about The Rock for years. It's like, man, when you do your Mount Rushmore... He's kind of got to pick The Rock or Stone Cold, you know? And I feel like The Rock's relevance in the modern era has actually helped this case because you don't necessarily have to pick him or Stone Cold. But still, I would go Stone Cold. My wife went to an antique store and came back with a Stone Cold Steve Austin piggy bank for me. Nice. Which is incredibly sweet.
Weirdly, it's a Stone Cold Sea Boston piggy bank that I previously owned and probably got rid of when I met her, moved in with her. But it was an incredible moment. But she was like, Stone Cold's your favorite, right? And I was just like, I don't know if I've ever told you that. out loud yes but stone cold is my favorite for sure okay all right understandable i mean that even puts into proper context how great lebron is because
How long did Stone Cold Steve Austin really wrestle? About 20 plus years, if that? His peak was maybe like four to five years? His peak in WWE, like the Stone Cold peak, was shockingly brief. Shockingly small. Yeah. And it's like, all right. That's the only reason why I can see people giving the nod to Cena just off of longevity. Because when you say the sentence out loud, the greatest of all time. I'm not trying to start a sports radio debate here, but that's LeBron's case against Jordan.
Right. It's just longevity. And we watched LeBron too. It's not just like, you know, that's the, oh gosh. Again, no sports radio talk here, but it's like, man. You still can't properly put into context how great LeBron is because he's still doing it.
The book's not closed yet. We can't put it into a nice, great five-day video show on ESPN to let us know exactly the beginning, middle, and end of this day because the story's... still being written and at some point in time when that dude was playing you can honestly say i've never seen somebody that athletic that you know gifted at that age do those type of things you know
But it's true. But part of the thing that LeBron and Cena have in common, and again, at the risk of starting this sports radio debate, is that... I mean, LeBron might be the greatest of all time. I'm not trying to say one way or the other, but it does seem like... the people who are making that case are largely people that didn't watch Jordan, right? So we always want the grace. It's more fun. It's more engaging if the grace of all time is someone that we saw play, right? Or saw wrestling.
And I think that's obviously like that was part of the motivation of. putting roman reigns over for so long so that he would become the you know he would eclipse all these other guys who weren't current guys right you can you can say i'm watching history be written right now and i think that's part of the motivation with the cena thing right it's like I guess. It's just more interesting if you feel like you're watching history in real time. Right? Well, I'd say this.
My case for LeBron, which would also be the case I would use for John Cena, is no matter what you feel about who had the greater peak, the greater height, whether it's Austin, Rock. Whatever. Broman. The one thing you can say clearly about LeBron that you can also clearly say about Cena is nobody in the history of what they do has ever been that good for that long and that relevant. No, Ric Flair. Nah. I wouldn't even say Ric Flair. Because even towards the end, there was some times where...
You know, we've seen the documentaries, Triple H, Michelle Michaels, had to remind him he's Ric Flair, right? Like, we've never had to remind John Cena he's John Cena, right? Like, even... Even this weird period before his heel turn when he lost a bunch of times, we all clearly know what he was doing as far as trying to get people over. He was still the most popular, famous, successful, living, semi-active wrestler there was.
There was times when we looked at Ric Flair during those raw days, you know, when Bischoff was in charge or whatever it was. And we're just like, ah. Yeah, but he was like 60. Yeah. So? I'm just saying he had already done it for a long time. He'd already done it for probably longer than Cena's done it. But not to the, I wouldn't say to the level of...
I'm going to piss off a bunch of Ric Flair fans right now. You're getting in it right now. I'm in there, but I'm in there. Let's talk about it. Ric Flair was fighting and defending that championship in TV studios a lot of times. Whereas John Cena, how many stadiums were these WrestleManias in? How many stadiums were on the back of John Cena?
Every single time out, even when he were bored. Not that many with The Rock. Not that many. He had a couple of WrestleManias, and then he was kind of in and out. I'm talking about... The build was on his back and it's a 60,000, 70,000, sometimes 80,000 seat stadium here to do all this.
Not as long as Cena has, if you're Ric Flair. So if you're a Flair fan, if you're upset about that, Yes, I know he performed in South Korea or North Korea to like a gajillion people who were there against their will. I'm talking about ticket buying customers, people. John Cena is without par when it comes to pro wrestling and that. And that's the same way I feel about LeBron James.
Feel the way about it? This has been a very long, cold open question. I feel like this could be the whole show. It's a hot open. We're just going to start a new weekly podcast that is just debate the greatest of all time. and we just have the same arguments every week i don't feel fresh about it it's work i know i know it's worked for them though we'll just start a new podcast called
called Wrestling Mount Rushmore. And we're just going to go and go and go until we agree. And we're never going to agree. So it'll never end. Anyway, we have a regular podcast to do. It's not strictly about the greatest wrestlers of all time. There's some pretty good ones. Anyway, let's start the show. What's up my friend? I'm doing good. Did you hear Liv Morgan's in a movie?
Yes, I did. Shout out Liv. Did this take up way too much oxygen this week? Or is it just me? A little bit. You know why? Because it definitely felt... Like a lot of folks, the timing of it was kind of crazy because like the movie was announced. And, well, they announced Love was taking time off to do a movie. To make a movie. And then there's all these stories about how this is a real breakthrough. But the same week.
Yeah, but the same week, like, the Russo brothers announced that, like, Avengers Doomsday is, like, starting filming this week. So everybody was putting two together. Like, oh, man, like. Liv's going to play like Harley Quinn or something. Oh, yeah. Wrong universe. Wrong universe. But what's the name? What's Shorty's name? Not Mary Jane, the blonde one. Oh, Spider-Gwen. Spider-Gwen. Yeah, Gwen Stacy. I was like, okay, I can see Liv Morgan playing Gwen Stacy in the real-life adaptation.
No, but congrats to her. Big look. As far as, what was the name of the movie? I think it was like Tokyo. The same people who created... It's Bad Lieutenant Tokyo. Takashi Mike's directing it. I mean, listen, it's super cool.
It's the same makers of what? Atomo, right? Or what was the movie that won Best Oscar? Best Picture of this movie? Takashi Mike has a sort of... i mean he's an incredible director but it's not but he's a also sort of a workman director my bad that's what it's called oh that it's like a24 or whatever whatever the studio is neon who did it i don't
but that's you know the director is incredible so i mean it has the potential to be a really cool movie let me pull let me pull up the real details let me let me not guess okay let's let's pull up Let's see what Cage Side Seats is saying. Liv Morgan's big Hollywood movie revealed. Deadline reports. All right, deadlines is even better than that. Deadline reports.
Now, Morgan will star in Bad Lieutenant Tokyo from legendary Japanese director Takashi Mike. Liv is one of three named stars for the film, along with lead actor Shona Guri and Lily James. Mike is best known for graphic horror and thrillers like Audition and Ichi the Killer, but he just tackled about every genre in the career that's been, what, 30 years in hundreds of projects.
This would be the third Bad Lieutenant film, each from a different team, Tokyo Files 1992, non-subtitled original starring Harvey Keitel. From director Abel Ferrara and Nicolas Cage's in 2009's Warner Herzog directed Port of Call, New Orleans. Each centered on a dirty cop in a moral crisis while solving a major case. Yeah. Dope. I mean, that sounds dope. All right. Sorry for the tons of misinformation in the beginning of that.
But that is the role, according to Deadline. You got worked by the sheets. But yeah, it's going to be big. There's also talk that Drew McIntyre has a big movie role coming up. Did you hear that one? I can see that. I can see that. Who would you... If you were a Hollywood talent... not just a wrestling agent, but if you were looking to cast a wrestler or looking to turn a wrestler into a big star.
What wrestler would you pick? Oh, that's a good question. Turn them into a big star. Who do you think has the most legit Hollywood upside? Not to be The Rock, necessarily, but to be like a Dave Bautista, like a real actor. That's a good question. I think it's harder to be the next rock. I think the rock is already the rock. You know who would have been great, by the way? Who? Scott Hall.
If he had just cashed it in and become an actor. I mean, there was too much of a stigma, I think, in his day. But like, man, like if Scott Hall was still even not even like if he was young today, if he was alive today, Scott Hall on like a. prestige HBO TV show. I mean, you'd kill it. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I don't think Drew's a bad choice either, right? I know. Drew's always underestimated. He's got this Game of Thrones, you know what I mean, sort of thing going on, I think.
I think Roman is... I feel like... I don't know. I feel like we unfairly sort of judge Roman on his Hollywood sort of potential. Because of his status. Vanity Fair photo shoot. And the Vanity Fair photo shoots and et cetera. All right, maybe he's not all the way quite there yet. But as far as people who can convince me, I feel like the women's division has a lot more potential stars than the men.
do i mean live morgan obviously uh you know said not for nothing when the rock went out to hollywood it was it was dumb but they at first they told him to lose weight you know in the and when you're just imagining stars The women are, by and large, more sort of regular size. It's hard to imagine Drew McIntyre as like Dom Draper in Mad Men or something. But, you know, there's a lot of there doesn't mean there's there's not a lot of opportunity.
Yeah, I mean, shoot. I thought Bianca Belair, I think Bianca Belair has a big... you know, crossover appeal, Hollywood appeal, just because she's like a living like action figure. I could definitely see her being the star. I could definitely see. I mean, hell, like Trick Williams. I mean, he just did a turn on All-American on CW, and I know All-American.
isn't like The Sopranos when it comes to television, but it's a very popular show and does really well. He's got a great look about him and a great charisma about him that I can see in some future projects. Man, who else? I think, you know, in a weird way, even though he probably won't. because he calls himself a lifer, but Randy Orton. I was always shocked that Randy wasn't...
the dude who was, like, the, you know, pegged to be, like, the next, like, crossover sort of guy. Here's the thing. Yeah, I mean, he could. I think we've talked about Randy a lot lately. Maybe he's just too big, Kaz. Maybe he's just too, not even muscle. I mean, he is enormous.
He's a muscular guy. He's too large of a guy. These Hollywood films don't have the apple crate budget to have Randy Orton in these scenes. He's going to be a foot and a half taller than all the other dudes in the movie. I can see that. What should we talk about today? We had a big dynamite last night. The finals for the Owen Hart Cup are set.
I mean, we are set and sewn, and the bill has been incredible. At Double or Nothing, which is still a few weeks out, right? It's May 25th, Glendale, Arizona. Oh, I should say our buddy Phil Schneider. has just announced on Twitter the other day that he's running Dean 2 on May 24th outside the Desert Diamond Arena, free admission, just the outdoor parking lot show.
And indie wrestling, I mean, it's going to be fantastic. It's his tribute show, and he did one of them before. I think it was last WrestleMania week, and now he's finally made these announcements. So if you're going to go out there, you've got to go to Dean, too. But anyway. Double or nothing is going to be in Glendale on the 25th. We only know two matches, and those are the two finals of the Owen Hart Cup. We got Will Ospreay versus Hangman Adam Page.
and Mercedes Monet versus Jamie Hayter. Presumably, I guess both of the winners will get title shots at all in. But these two matches on their own. Just incredible. Hangman's match last night. I mean, Hangman gets put in these feuds that are incredibly compelling. The matches are always good. But just to see him in a straight-up match against Kyle Fletcher last night was... I don't know what it is about AEW where you have all these wrestlers and somehow every big match is a revelation.
Hangman Adam Page might be in my top five right now after watching him in that Kyle Fletcher match last night. That dude is always good. He's always on. And I think more than anything...
I've never even seen a whiff. I haven't seen a misstep in one of his matches. For all the flips that he does, has there ever been... anything approaching botch territory with this guy he is the he might be the most like competent pro wrestler in the world and also is great and compelling and one of the top two characters in aew and i mean he's just so good
You know what's going to happen now, Dave. The very next Hangman Adam Page match. He's going to trip. He's going to completely botch that Buckshot Larry on that flip. I apologize in advance. It is pretty impressive that he managed to hit that thing so perfectly. Not just as far as his ability to flip, but... You got to have like a specific amount of.
Torque? Space to make that thing look impressive every time because if it's too far away or if it's too short, it doesn't really have the same sort of impact. But he seems to time that thing out perfectly every single time. Last night he did it off the top rope, which I don't think I've ever seen before. And then he followed up with a traditional buckshot from the side. It was an incredible match. I mean, Kyle Fletcher is... I mean, he's just he's someone should someone should like.
input everything about Kyle Fletcher's rise into AI and use that to build the next generation of wrestlers because he's just doing it perfectly every loss feels like a win you know I mean it's just wild to watch that guy come up But yeah, that match last night was sick. What were you going to say?
No, I was going to say he's really talented, Kyle Fletcher. But I wasn't shocked that he lost because he's still kind of in that weird sort of position where we all know this dude's like the next guy up. But him winning cleanly over a guy that we're all supposed to love isn't the way he's supposed to take that rise, right? He's the Don Callis guy. I didn't realize how much him and Don Cows favored each other until that.
uh entrance when they both came out and they both had like the shades and both had the baldy i was like yo he really kind of looks like his son I didn't realize how similar these two look until just this moment. In another wrestling era, he'd probably be billed as his son. Probably. Probably. But I really do like both of these guys, man. Just for the simple fact that every match they...
It's a special talent to feel like every time you have a big-time match, you should win. And when you don't win, it doesn't feel like the end of the world, right? In this case, though, I do think Adam Page needed it more than... Kyle Fletcher. Well, yeah, I mean, and I think you could even make the case that they, that if there's... if you want to say anything about the Owen tournament at this point, is that I thought it was a little bit projected.
Right. I mean, I didn't think there was any chance in the world that Kyle Fletcher was going to be going up against Will Ospreay in a match of this caliber. One, we've seen it before, but two. Like you said, Fletcher's not quite there yet. And that's not a knock on Kyle Fletcher. That's just a statement of fact. We need Hangman. This is the spot for him. I can't wait to see. I can't wait to see. hangman and osprey go toe to toe yeah who do you think wins that one
Who gets the main event shot at All In? Is it Osprey's time? Are we going to take the momentum of... I'm really torn on this. Me too. I really don't know which way you go here, man. I really don't know which way you go. First of all, are we arguing? I mean, is the point, is your assumption that whoever fights Moxley, if it's Moxley at all in, is going to take the title off of him? I would hope so.
I would hope so. If you're not saving, well, it would make a year since he's been champion, since he beat, no, no, no, no, I'm bugging. been a year since they like gave uh brian danison the anime death uh but um i would assume that like all in is the moment that you crown a new champion um
I don't know if it is, but you can't really go wrong with either guy, right? No, you can't. I mean, I think that sort of you may either make the case that this was hang. I mean, listen, we said it in other contexts over and over. that hangman was the main character all along right uh and and so it does make a lot of internal sense. But to be fair, this hangman was the main character all along, shtick.
started before Will Ospreay joined AEW. Correct. And Will Ospreay is far and away, not even far and away, but quite comfortably, the most over good guy you have in the company. It's true. Also, I don't know which way this pushes you, but after All In is Forbidden Door, which is at the O2 in London. And Will Ospreay is the only person on the promotional art for it.
um the existing commercial art obviously a lot can change um so I don't know if that means they're just going to Photoshop that belt around his waist after he wins it, or if that just means maybe you save his big moment for England. Or England is his. crowning sort of, you know, conquering hero welcome coming home sort of moment, which I think is probably the best way.
to go about it because lost in just like beating moxie for the championship and winning the owen and you know winning the main event at all in is the grand re-reveal of the aew world championships we haven't seen in so long and i think that's like more than just defeating moxley the big moment is being that guy who gets to crack that suitcase open and celebrate with the big gold finally and whoever becomes that dude
is like going to be like the de facto savior of the company yeah and i wouldn't want to i wouldn't want to tell the same story that we've been telling with hangman adam page if that's the way that they go like if you are going to be the person who opens that case back up and re-reveals the championship, that means the entire way your company is going is going to go the way of that champion. And I think Ospreay being the baby face.
match freaking best wrestler on earth as far as a match quality is concerned like maybe it's a lot less about who is the soul of the company or who has control whatever and it just gets back to like yo i'm the champ Every time I wrestle, it's a five-star, six-star match, and we're getting back to having the best goddamn matches.
in the world. And we're starting at the O2 Arena at Forbidden Door. We're going to have some big shit happen. So I would go Ospreay. I think he'd be the perfect guy to... Get a nice, clean slate. I think I probably would have agreed with you before last night, but man, that was just a... I mean, Hangman is just so good. I would not complain about Hangman. You know, it's just sort of like... I would choose Ospreay over just about anybody else on the roster.
But I think you can make a compelling case for hangman. It's not, it's not. I don't know. I mean, I think I would be, I think I've expressed this before. I would have some anxiety about holding the belt off of Osprey strictly to give it to him in the UK. There's been some chatter about that, right? Like, oh, we're going to save that moment. that cannot be your only reason, right? Because for a lot of reasons, but for, I mean.
If nothing else, this is not a British wrestling company, right? I mean, this is, you gotta, yeah, no, no, no. I mean, right. But regardless, I just wouldn't factor in that at all. But if you can tell a compelling story that gets you there, and this is not like somebody else is just like filling time. i mean i think and i think you i think it's fine and i think that hangman is hangman is there hangman is that guy i don't know we'll see
We'll see. I don't know. I don't know. I think Will Ospreay is that guy, man. I think Will Ospreay is that guy. I mean, I think Will Ospreay is going to... I mean, dude, when Will Ospreay's contract is up, he might be the highest paid wrestler in the world when he signs his new one. I mean, just think about it. He's going to have his suitors, man. I don't even think he's going to jump ship even necessarily. I just think that the...
I mean, I probably shouldn't get too deep into just contracting fantasy booking, but I just think Tony Khan's got to be like, all right, who's our highest paid wrestler? Give Ospreay $5. that's how negotiations usually work in the big sports man it's like not only do we want you back but we want you to be able to tell everyone that you
are the biggest breadwinner we got. And with good reason. And with good reason. So I get it. I get it. But yeah, no, no. I mean, I don't have any doubts about Osprey. This has nothing to do with him. It's just sort of... Well, I mean, you got to tell a story one way or the other. And I think in general, AEW has been telling more compelling stories, but...
you know, I'm the best wrestler in the world and I deserve this isn't exactly like a thing that's going to get people into seats. Right. I mean, that's something that's it. thing that wrestling has dealt with for the longest time. Anyway, listen, there's no wrong answer here, I think is my argument. But anyway. What about on the women's side? You think this is just a setup? Are we just on the... Is the Mercedes Tony Storm?
all-in match just so obvious at this point? Or is there a chance that Jamie Hayter comes away with this? I don't think Jamie Hayter has a chance, unfortunately. I don't want to sound like a hater. But nah, man, it's the biggest wrestling match you can make. It's the biggest match you can make. Just want to let you hang out there with that one. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, let it marinate. Yeah, that's the biggest women's wrestling match you can make.
kept Mercedes away from the women's world title long enough. And they've kept Tony away from Mercedes long enough. There's a time to do it. All in's the time to do it. I don't think there's another place that you have a match of that caliber.
Maybe, you know, there's a way you get the TBS title off of Mercedes before then. So maybe there's a little bit more. Jamie Hayter punched it off of her last night. Did you see that when she came out? Mercedes was there in her heels or whatever. Hayter just laid into her. and the belts just like two of the three belts just like went flying um yeah it's like he lost one over 25 belts or something like that i thought that was funny um
I don't think you can have her lose a title before that match. That's why you strip champs of titles because you can't diminish her. You can't make her look weak heading into the Tony Storm match. But it would be nice to get one of them off of her at some point. Maybe she relinquishes the title. Although it's weird because she's been holding so many for so long, only one of them, I guess, is technically an AEW title.
I don't know. But regardless. But what does the end of that match look like? Does that like... Is it winner? I think you make that a winner-take-all match, to be honest. like i think somebody has to leave with all the belts and somebody has to leave with nothing well i mean and and what does it look like i mean i think i i would assume that mercedes will win but maybe that's the all the that maybe that's the argument for mercedes not winning
Maybe. I think Tony Storm is so close to bulletproof at this point. you know i mean she's got both in terms of what she's accomplished but also maybe more so because of her character you know I think she could lose that match and just re-energize on the next show and that's it. And it does feel like... as great as tony storm is there's a little bit of that will osprey case for mercedes at this point too right it's the she's the greatest in the world let's acknowledge that
Although, I don't know. Is Mercedes the greatest women's wrestler in the world right now? I don't know. I don't know, man. EOSky has a case. I think Eosky is the only person in WWE with an argument. And I think that you can make a really strong case for Eosky. Dude, that's amazing. 1000%. I mean, I've been saying, I mean, I've for years have been saying.
and i don't mean this is like to pat myself on the back you know it's like when i when when my wife comes in and watches wrestling she's just like who's the best women's wrestler and i'm like yo sky like for years you know yeah yeah um Yeah, I mean, the way that she's going now, she's so freaking good. And the championship reign is finally caught on. i know we're jumping to kind of another subject now but i feel like it's finally like when she does the the um what's it called the
The arm thrust. Are we talking about EO? Yeah. You're doing the pointing at your head and wobbling that. No, no, no. The palm thrust. Like when she does that. The superhero palm thrust. Yeah, the big uppercut. That has become... That has become like a...
I don't even know what the... Like a Superman punch. Yeah, it's a Superman punch. I mean, it's like the crowd goes nuts for it. And it looks like a movie. It's one of those movies, like if you do that on your way up, it looks a little bit silly, but you do that as like a champion that people buy. And it's like, it's the freaking rock bottom. You know, I mean, it's like the crowd goes nuts. And justifiably, I feel like she's, I mean, she's all over the place. She's on Raw. She's on NXT.
She won the best match at WrestleMania. Yep. The emotes are over, man. We need to have a WWE AW Forbidden Door just to get that match. Man, one of these days, yo. One of these days. I think an AEW WWE crossover show is going to happen one day. No time soon. No time soon, but only because it's the one thing everybody says will never happen. I'm almost positive one day it will happen. That'll make it happen.
Yeah, I think so. That's how the universe works, I think. I think the more you put it out there, the more you say this thing isn't going to happen. Now we're getting deep. All right. This is how the universe works? This is how the universe works, Dave. The more you put it out there, and the more, you know... I think sometimes stars align and the cosmos align itself to make these moments happen.
And it's definitely not happening anytime soon. But I just want to be able to get it on record saying this will happen one day. I want to talk about some WWE number one contenders since we're talking about some AEW ones. On the women's side, I mean, obviously, EO Sky, as we were just discussing, is out there feuding with Roxanne Perez, Julia, as it was reported today. Well, it's been reported lately that Roxanne and Julia are basically called up to the main roster.
Oh, wow. Stephanie Vaquer has been on Raw for the past two weeks, too, although she's the NXT champion. Although it was reported today that all three of them are still listed internally on the NXT Raw. Mm-hmm. Listed internally is one of those phrases that seems to carry a whole lot of weight. I'm not really sure how they would do it differently.
But maybe they're, I mean, I guess maybe they're just holding out. They're going to getting the fans used to them and they're just going to have them in the draft whenever that happens. I mean, it's a little bit weird, but that could totally be it. And it could just be that, you know, they haven't changed the internal rosters yet.
It definitely gives a different look to... the stephanie vaquer champ champ moment right where it was like everybody said julia was hurt and then it kind of turned out she wasn't hurt or at least not significantly And then there was the story that was like, no, no, 75 here just got more over than Julia. And it kind of took everybody by surprise. So we're fixing the situation.
Now, maybe it's just the answer is we're just Julia is just more ready now to be on the main roster. We're not going to waste any more time. I mean, you could read it kind of any way you want. What do you think? Are Julia and Roxanne Perez, and hell, talk about 71 here too. Are they fully main roster ready? Is there any reason to have them keep going in NXT?
Only to continue to give NXT the buzz. But yeah, I mean, I think anybody who watched Stephanie Vakir... or Julia in the past several shows that really had them blow up in North America, one of them being against Mercedes Monet. I think they would have told you they were main roster ready. I think the only thing that was... different was can they get over without being necessarily the best English speakers.
And I think that question is a resounding yes. Like, you can absolutely get over without necessarily speaking the best English because... Wrestling is his own language. Vakir specifically. Well put, yeah. I mean, she's got that it factor about her that you kind of saw from Rhea Ripley when she started getting over, you know? I don't know if it's the dark hair or like the sort of...
mystery, sort of... I don't know what it is. I mean, she's got an incredible look. She can wrestle her ass off. She has like this... Level of quiet confidence that I don't think anybody else on the women's roster in NXT has. And I think that's why her ride happened so quick. Including Julia and Roxanne Perez?
yeah yeah yeah yeah i just i just want to be clear here all right yeah and even even the roxanne perez about it like you can plug roxanne perez into the roster and she fits in just fine because she fits in, right? Yeah, she just looks like she's supposed to be there, 100%. She looks like she belongs immediately. But Vakir, not only does she fit in, she stands out. Like, she's clearly...
great enough of a wrestler to lock in there. But she has that thing that all the megastars sort of have that you can't really... put in a think tank. You can't really write for it. It's just a thing. And you kind of have it or you don't have it. And I can't really describe it. I mean, Booker T could probably describe it better than I could describe it. But she has it. She has it.
And it's captivating, like from the entrance to the music. I mean, she doesn't really speak menacingly. Like there's something about somebody who's super talented. and doesn't speak to you menacingly, just speaks in a very calm but confident tone. Confident, yeah. Yeah, it's probably that. It's probably the confidence that when she speaks and her skills that make you be like, yeah.
yeah like you should be on raw every week like she gets a pop every time she comes out you know like and maybe it's the the buzz of having the nxt championship on her shoulder as well but i think it's more than that i think that One of those people that you can see being a mainstay on the main roster. I'm not saying she's the next Rhea Ripley.
get that confused no i think she definitely has that i think she definitely has that same it factor that rhea ripley had that when she came in we're all like all right it's only gonna be a matter of time before she top dog here. And we all saw how that's turned out. Yeah, and we saw, I mean, Rhea Ripley had some incredible matches in NXT UK and NXT.
but there's you know she was still kind of growing as a performer stephanie vaquer in some sense i mean she'll change a lot but she's sort of fully formed yeah julia though i think is uh i think that this is going to be you know a wwe documentary i can't wait to watch in 10 years but the way that they came in together I think they're always going to be compared to one another. And I think that makes it really exciting. Because I think Julian's just...
just elite too. In the same vein of people who have come in from NXT UK and just been elite. Lyra Valkyria was awesome on Monday Night Raw. She finally figured it out. Yeah, like that promo she cut. I wonder how much time they were just like kind of treading water for an inevitable Becky run they knew was happening. I still don't want to give them too much credit for like...
playing the waiting game. But she is just giving her a microphone and just letting her just be her. Yeah. And like I said with Lyra, with Stephanie Vakir. It's all in delivery and confidence. And the way she said... I'm going to be a better person than you. Because I already know I'm a better wrestler than you. I was like, oh. She said the quiet part out loud. It was really good. And by the way, she had a lot of work in that promo too.
yeah uh she had to do the i know you're gonna ask for a title shot so i'll just give you one you know i mean like she had to get through like there was a lot of there was a lot of And she got the crowd behind me too. When she was like, yo, I know this crowd wants to see a fight. Y'all want to see a fight? And I was like, holy shit. She got low.
Yeah, that's the other thing she had to do. They didn't go through the paces of having, oh, you want to have this fight tonight? And then the heel backs out. Lyra sort of had to get through. 20 minutes of promo battle all by herself. Word.
And it was really, really good. And she definitely ran the risk of... cool heel getting cheered over young well Becky's getting cheered I saw a whole there was a whole post about that this week that's just like somebody posted on Reddit I don't even think it was weird circle I think it was like on the WWE page or whatever but somebody complaining that All the heels are getting cheered now. Very old school. We have some old school topics to discuss. So I'll just segue right in. Is it a problem?
For you as a wrestling fan or wrestling commentator, that... Becky Lynch, Seth Rollins. Never heard that. What do we do here? I have no idea. Is it a problem when heels like Becky Lynch, like Seth Rollins, like Ron Breaker are getting cheered, just actively cheered by the live crowds? Nope. Nope, nope, nope. The only problem with any wrestling crowd is when you get...
Silence? No reaction. That is literally it. If they cheer, if they boo, it's something. It don't matter if you meant for them to cheer for somebody. It don't matter if you meant for them to boo somebody. You got to get a reaction. The only reaction you don't want. But like in our childhood.
Like when I was a kid, you know, I mean, if like the crowd at WrestleMania 2 had started cheering for King Kong Bundy, WWE would have been like... shit we got a problem right right so it's like it does mark a departure in pro wrestling even until recently
you know there was the hayman i always say got like the respectful booze you know uh people knew it people loved him but they knew what he was trying to do similar when like when punk was with hayman and like there was nobody stopped being a fan you know, over the age of eight or whatever.
but it was the booze of respect then wwe started leaning into the the you know you're getting worked bro like real heat you know they sort of the sort of go away heat for a lot of their heels you know so there was that there's that whole period too And then, you know, we still react to heels doing despicable things and boo them. And like John Cena got booed at Elimination Chamber, even if he got cheered at WrestleMania.
i don't know so it's but just not a problem like we're in a new world now it's okay yeah like we wouldn't boo king kong we wouldn't share king kong bundy but If you are nine or 12 years old,
And you found a community of people that were like, you know, actually King Kong Bundy is kind of awesome. King Kong Bundy would have his own subreddit if he was around today. Yeah, like, come on. It's one of those things that you don't ever... want to happen if you know you're trying to establish something new which i think is happening with braun hayman and seth rollins but i don't necessarily think crowds are cheering
than because of what they're doing. They're sharing it because it's something new. They're sharing it because it's... Well, they're excited about it. Yeah, for sure. It's exciting. I think that the flip side is somebody's got to... Right? And I think that's what leads to things like Bianca Belair getting booed. Because it's just like, wait, we don't know who, like, we like everybody.
right so do we now who are we gonna boo like you gotta if you're if you're out there cheering for the heel well you then you presumably are disappointed when the baby face does You know what I mean? Yeah, I can see that. I mean, I think they did a really good job picking Sami Zayn, speaking of number one contenders, as the...
as the first foil in this whole thing, because nobody's going to boo Sami Zayn. Is Sami Zayn the most un-boo-able wrestler in WWE? The most un-boo-able? Shit. I mean, Rhea's up there. Nobody boos her. Even when she's sort of working, she kind of worked heel her whole way, the whole road to WrestleMania. Judgment Day was even the Judgment Day days. Everybody was getting booed but her. So she's up there. And I guess...
Yeah, I mean, like, Jey Uso doesn't get booed. Rey Mysterio doesn't get booed. Like, Jey Uso only exists on, like, Twitter. No, no, no. I completely agree. I'm not trying to make a snarky take. I think if you look at it this way... I don't know that there's anything that Sami Zayn could do to get booed. Like if Sami Zayn... help John Cena win the world or, you know, retain the world championship and back.
I don't think he would get booed. I think we just love him too much. I think fans, as a rule, would just be like, well, Sammy must have had his reasons. Let's wait to hear him out. Like, I just think he's just so lovable. And he's so good on the mic now, too. I mean, I don't know. Talk about doing a lot of work, like having your words.
just having to accomplish a lot in a promo. That promo with Seth, one of my buddies compared that to, you know, late stage Mick Foley, where he was just, could just go out there and talk, just regular voice talk and be the most compelling voice on the show. dude i am is it by the way is it is it kayfabe canon that sammy and seth are real life friends or did they just sort of introduce that for the first time on raw
They kind of touched on it on the road to WrestleMania last year. Yeah. Right? Like, when Sami was kind of getting built up to possibly take out Roman. There was a whole thing there. Cody was sort of in the mix. They mentioned it before. But they've definitely doubled it up enough once CM Punk returned, I think. When it was like, yo, we got all these indie stories we can't tell. But, you know.
ring of honor like that's basically what they want to say it's like guys the ring of honor we were homies like we've we've come up together through that like el generico tyler black like that's how far we go back that's what they want to say But they do enough wink, wink, nudge, nudge to be like, hey, if you've paid attention to us before we got to WWE, you know how far we go back. Yeah.
It's cool that Sami Zayn, Sami Zayn's also might be the only wrestler who's allowed to have more than one friend. Like, usually you just have, like, your kayfabe best friend and that's it, you know? Sammy Zane, who is so tied in, so well-known to be Kevin Owens. you know best friend is actually a human being who has like multiple functional relationships sometimes dysfunctional
So that's nice for Sami. I'm very excited. That match against Braun was a whole lot of fun. That was just perfect booking. Where are you on Gunther and Pat Mack? let me tell you something i know there's a lot of people out there that feel a way about pat mcafee right whether it's his commentary style whether it's just him as a personality
That promo he cut on Monday Night Raw was one of the best promos I've ever heard anybody cut about anything. Yes. I was not that high on it. Yes. I was high on that promo right there. McAfee, man. He knows, like, you can say what you want about him. The dude knows how to galvanize a crowd. He knows how to speak in a way, and he does it on the show all the time. He knows how to speak in a way, in a cadence, that lets the energy sort of breathe.
He knows how to hit every point. Like he knew how to hit the Kansas City Chiefs crowd in there. He knew how to hit about like, yo, listen, I know people out there don't like. But to the people in my circle, this is the type of dude that I am. And I do X, Y, Z. This is that and the third. The whole promo was about friendship. We're talking about friends and having more than one friend and all that type of stuff. Yeah.
The basic thing was, I know I'm an acquired taste, but the one person who's had my back since this entire thing was this guy right here. And I don't care if I get my ass kicked. This is what you do for a friend. And kayfabe, didn't Michael Cole hate? Pat McAfee when he first came on. He hated his shorts. It was the shorts thing. We all saw the shorts thing, but I think, you know, that was probably what made.
them become even closer friends because as my memory serves, he told Michael Cole, fuck off and was ready to leave after getting screamed at by the higher-ups led by Michael Cole. But in any case... I loved that promo because it felt like a real dude speaking to us. It didn't feel like a pro wrestling promo. That's obviously McAfee's gift. He's a sort of... real dude whisperer. He's a gifted talker and has a level of...
He definitely has a level, despite how wildly rich and famous this dude is, he has a level of relatability to a good chunk of the WWE universe that are guys. that you could say a couple of things and be really fucking like... locked in and i'm locked in and i know gunther's gonna destroy him and he put it out there like i think i'm gonna get my ass kicked yeah of course but it's not about him winning the match
It's about sticking up for his friend and showing that he's a tough guy. Like, yeah, he's a talker, but like... Dude, you make it to the NFL, you are a top percenter athlete no matter where position you played. And... Let's not act like he's not capable in the ring. Well, we've seen him in the ring. He's really good at being in the ring. We've seen him do things in the ring where it's like, yeah, like him and Gunther could go out there and have a good 15 minutes and we'd be locked into it.
But the promo, I loved it. I know a lot of people don't like McAfee. I'm not one of those guys. I'm not going to complain about McAfee. I think I probably like him more than... a lot of the people that I talk to but um But I wasn't all the way there on that promo. It felt a little bit too not wrestling. And I get that's what he is. He represents something else. Like he's the sort of... But that's the point. That's the whole reason why.
That's the whole reason why when he came to WWE, he was a breath of fresh air. We had so many people on commentary that were just really trying to do their best version of Jim Ross, do their best version of Michael Cole. And Pat McAfee is not that. Pat McAfee is somebody completely different, which I think the WWE truly needed at that point. And yeah, of course, there could be certain folks that feel like he's a little bit...
too much at times, but I'd rather be somebody, I'd rather somebody be too much than not enough 10 times out of 10. And the fact that he's a legitimate. sports voice outside of the wrestling bubble and can legitimately get in there and and and rumble and and do what he's got to do
The dude knows how to... I think it's going to be a better match than I think people are anticipating. I don't have any question about the match. I don't know. I think it's a good idea. I mean, in principle, it's very much like... It's the shit that I grew up watching. You know? Like, I don't, like...
Dude, beat up the announcer, get some comeuppance, like whatever. Like this is, it's a great, great means to get Gunther away from the world champion, the world title without it feeling like forced. Like the whole thing has been very good. I just didn't love that promo.
Well, I thought it was good. I really liked it. I enjoyed it. Is it weird that he was... Should I have been bothered that he was standing on the table? No. That's what he does every live show. Like, during the commercial breaks, he kind of... He ramps them up and gets them fired up in between commercial breaks. So I think he's good at that, man. He's good at that. I know he's divisive to a lot of people. Not to me, man. I've always been a Pat McAfee dude.
I fuck with him. And that's, that's, that's just how I see it. See, I'm not taking the big, I'm just leaving the whole big picture Pat McAfee argument of this. I just said. So a little bit meandering, you know, just a little bit meandering to me. Anyway. That will be a fun match, though. We know McAfee can go. I mean, that's going to be... That's great. He was a lot of fun to watch wrestle when he was in NXT. So...
This will be a good one. This will be definitely good. Jey Uso, the man who beat Gunther, has a new rival in the person of Logan Paul. This is another one where it's like, Joe, we should have seen this coming because of the WrestleMania results. like the Orton thing. I don't know. How do you feel about Logan Paul, number one contender? I get it. You know what I mean? Again, probably in the same vein, I look at the McAfee stuff where it's like...
You know the dude can wrestle. And you know the dude is... The perfect sort of foil for Jey Uso as a first challenger because nobody wants to see him win. And if you want to get your world champion established, you got to be the guy. Is this like Danielson winning the world title and feuding with Kane the next month? Is that the...
No, I think it's a step up than Kane. I don't think Kane had a real shot at winning. I agree. I was just joking. But there is a feeling to this backlash build that it's almost like... this is like what people thought the mania build would be yeah you know all these like uh crossover matches you know whatever just like you got maca that's true you know and they actually they kind of went straight played it straight with wrestlemania
Like WrestleMania we used to call, I mean, SummerSlam we used to call WrestleMania for nerds. It's almost like Backlash is now WrestleMania for... You know, it's like celebrity matches and just John Cena match, John Cena versus Randy Orton, like throwback matches and stuff like it. Right. There's a very specific flavor to this one. I guess I'm having a hard time putting my finger on it. But yeah, I like the Logan Paul thing. There's no way that he wins, right?
no because that's where i stopped enjoying it but he's yeah but he's just as good he's good enough popular enough and hated enough for them to play the hell out of you with some crazy near falls at backlash to really make you think this dude's gonna this dude's gonna have Jey Uso lose the title just as quickly as he lost the Intercontinental title I'm glad they brought that up
I'm glad they brought that up. So it made it, you got to put that doubt in there and say, hey, we got the big WrestleMania moment. Everybody that you speak to online that has an issue with Jey Uso all believes that this dude's going to be a transitional champion and he's going to lose it. People were penciling him in to lose the title on the Raw Aftermania. Like that Monday. I discussed it. I discussed the possibility. So all that was out there for a while. But at the same time...
I think this is the perfect sort of dude for Jey Uso to start his championship legacy with and be like, beat the guy that nobody wants to see be world champion. Even though I do think Logan Paul is going to be world champion one day, but I don't think it's going to be right now. Maybe. But I do think that there's something to making a sort of foregone conclusion match for Jay because it shows, again, that WWE has confidence.
You know what I mean? Like it's like, I think if it were, if you were fighting Gunther again, if you were fighting Seth, if you were fighting, I mean, pick your poison. We would have spent so much time. contemplating that Jay would lose that I think it would have actually hurt our estimation of Jay in a weird psychological way. And I think regardless of what happens, us spending the next month assuming that Jay is going to retain the title, actually, it's a good thing.
But we'll see. I mean, they could do a lot of stuff with this. And I think that, again, no one can say this isn't a big match, right? I mean, this is Logan Paul we're talking about. Your mileage may vary. But that's big time. You got two world title matches in one night, man. How can you be mad at that? Jey Uso, Logan Paul, Randy Orton, John Cena.
That's a hell of a card already. It's a hell of a card already. It is. It is. It's going to be huge. We're going to get Becky versus Lyra. I mean, this is going to be a huge show. Question about Logan Paul. Did you see the thing with him in Stone Cold that came out this week?
He said on, was it, I guess, probably on Impulsive that he kind of said what other people had already, the story had already leaked that he tried to get Stone Cold involved in his WrestleMania match and Stone Cold said no thanks. And then Sung Kul came out and was like, it seemed kind of. Yeah, they wanted to put them in the Prime bottle. Like they put Speed in it last year. And you got... RKO'd into, right? Yeah.
Seeing Stone Cold Steve Austin in a prime bottle might have killed a lot of my wrestling fandom. I'm not going to lie. Thank you, God, Stone Cold. Stone Cold seemed a little bit pissed off that the news had gotten out at all. uh right he's old school man he don't like he don't he likes to keep the mystique especially like dude these you've made a zillion dollars being this character taking one million dollars to completely cut its nuts off to
it's still real to him. It should still be real to a lot of other people. It's having the balls to ask Stone Cold to do something so just implicitly like such a bad idea. That's what makes Logan Paul who he is, man. Yeah, shit. I mean, damn, maybe he's smarter than I give him credit for it because that's probably as heel a tactic you could possibly do. Yeah. Can you believe this guy offered a million dollars?
Put Stone Cold Steve Austin, our beloved Stone Cold Steve Austin in their freaking prime bottle? Nah. Speaking of old school, Stone Cold also seemed to be pissed off about this new Netflix show. What's it called? I think it's called Unreal. WWN Unreal or something like that. Can we talk about this for a minute? Let's talk about it, yeah.
A lot of people are upset about this show. It's going to go behind the scenes, talk about WWE creative process. There's embedded cameras. This is made not by WWE documentaries, it should be said, but by NFL film. And by the Manning Brothers. Omaha. Omaha Productions. There's some connection between WWE and Omaha. At least one former well-placed WWE front office person is working at Omaha now.
But this is going to be the NFL film's treatment. As far as I know, WWE has, like, advise and consent role on this, but this is not their baby. This is, like, Netflix and NFL films doing a thing. obviously with unfettered access. Now...
There have already been stories that there are people who didn't know that they were being considered for big WrestleMania positions and that they ended up not getting until they saw the trailer for Unreal. This is wrestlers saying, oh shit, I could have had that. So there's going to be that kind of runoff. Stone Cold is saying, I'm old school. I don't think you should pull the curtain back.
i got a text from somebody inside wwe that did i send you this yeah yeah i mean let me let me read it because it's just great it was uh Whatever is left of kayfabe, this show is going to drive a stake through it, douse it on fire, and then bury it. give it the full katie vick treatment but you know but uh uh This is an interesting one because it's not just the old timers. It's not just WWE people. It's not just traditional. that are coming down against unreal.
There's also, it seems to me, a large portion of wrestling fandom that is taking umbrage, that is taking exception to this. So, you pull back the curtain just an inch too far. You know? We wanted to, we've spent our entire fandoms trying to get a peek. Behind the curtain. Trying to see the Wizard of Oz. But now that we have the option to see his pants and not just a glimpse of his face, we're like, no, this is too much. I can't do it.
Does it seem weird to you? I mean, the only reason I feel like I get so, it always trips me out when like, Squared Circle on Reddit goes through all these like jumps through all these hoops to keep spoilers secret. It's like this is a live television broadcast. You know, like I get it if it's like news about something that's happening in a month. But a thing that was on Raw last night, a thing that was on a pay-per-view last night, to me is not a spoiler. This is reality.
You know, you know, you don't go on like the politics subreddit and they're just like, well, you know. talking about the election the next day with like spoiler and brackets instead of the winner's name. You know, I mean, this is like a thing that has happened on television for all to see. Right. So the spoiler thing always trips me up. But now that I see fans that are just like, I don't know, I don't want to know what goes on. It feels so bizarre to me because I feel like
the only reason that we're hanging out here. It's like... it would it's like it's it's like if you're hanging out with like your bar buddies back in the day like i had a group of like you know five ten dudes it just like we were friends at the bar like we were friends outside of the bar but like we always knew you know show up at the bar some of your friends will be there you know we are our friendship was built around this thing it would be like
Not if somebody decided to go sober. It would be like if someone just decided to come to the bar and complain about... the caloric content of beer every time we're together. Be like, no, the only reason we're here is because of this beer. The only reason that we're having this conversation. is because of the spear. We wrestling fans have been brought together for 20 years by the peaks behind the curtain.
By the shoot interviews, by the wrestler podcasts, by the rumors, by the rumors about the rumors, the websites posting. Dave Meltzer's reporting in bullet format. You know, the newsletter is everything. This is what has brought us together. This is what has made us a modern wrestling fan.
Now they're giving us a thing that so many of us have dreamed about. So many of us have fantasized about. And wrestling fans are saying, no, no, no, this is a bridge too far. Not all of them. But there are people out there that are opposed to this show. What do you think about it? You were on the creative team. What do you felt like if they were about to do this? I can't wait to watch it. I cannot wait to watch it.
Obviously, I had a different regime when I was back there. And I've always said, man, if you guys knew half the stuff that went on... to even get XYZ on the show. it's 10 times more interesting than the stuff that was happening on the show. And judging from my timeline, like, yeah, that actually checks out because some of the stuff that was on TV around that time probably wasn't the best. It wasn't as good as it is right now. I'll tell you that. But I'll say this.
It's a very simple fact, very simple self. Do not watch if that is the bridge too far. And it's not like it's happening real time, right? It's not like... we're finding out the behind the scenes of you know, McAfee and Gunther's pull-apart brawl on the brawl after Mania. From what I can tell, this is all stuff that is already taking place. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And in addition... And in addition to that, This is such a unique sort of form of entertainment.
It's the only form of entertainment that you don't get a behind-the-scenes look in. When Spider-Man's done filming or the Avengers is done filming, you get to hear from the director, you get to hear the director's cut, you get to hear everything about everything that went into the making of this movie. Same thing in WWE, man. I feel if you're going to do this.
Sure, there's going to be those people who are going to feel a type of way. And obviously the old school, the legends should feel type of way about it. But I ultimately think this would all be a good thing. I've always said for the longest time, man. The people that helped put this show together. the thought process, everything, all of the, and again, I don't know how much insight we're going to get. There's only like, I'm sure it's only an hour long show. You can't fit in a week's worth of.
TV into a week's worth of TV shows if you're going to do a behind-the-scenes thing. I just kind of feel like we've spent all this time the behind the scenes of WWE. And now they're going to say like, you know what? If you want to know so bad, we're going to be the ones who tell you. we're gonna be the ones that show you what it is and I think that's sort of been I think you're right I think in some ways that's what's most offensive to people is WWE but that's they're an entertainment company
If this is what people want, we're going to give it to them. This is what people want to watch. If you don't want to watch, if nobody wants to watch, there definitely won't be a second season. There you go. There you go. And then I've met with Lee Fitting and I've met with... Nick Khan and Hunter. And I've had long talks with them about a lot of these, you know, a lot of their content plays coming up in the future. The prevailing theme I get from talking with all these guys is...
There's so much wrestling content out there that they do not own. There's so much wrestling stories that they do not get to own. The postgame shows, the podcast, the rumor mills, all that type of stuff. It's like... Their goal is to own those conversations again and own those conversations now. If you're going to pay $20 to listen to hearsay about what possibly happened on the road to WrestleMania.
why not pay Netflix $15 a month? And we'll show you exactly how it went down. And we'll show you in a way that we get something back. And ultimately, if it goes the way that... I think ultimately everybody comes out looking better. Maybe some people may come out looking worse. There's always that risk. We've seen it. That would be great if they still booked it a little bit and there was somebody on the creative team that was just... Of course. That was booked as the dodo.
Every TV show. That would be so funny, man. The one thing that I'm interested in is who's going to be the Dodo. Who's going to be the guy that comes out looking bad out of all this? You know a lot of those guys. You have a theory? I know them all. You're not going to get me. I know a good portion of those dudes. But at the same time, I think with the NFL films of it all, the Omaha productions of it all.
I think of what happened with the New York Giants and, you know, Hard Knock's front office where you get so much access. Now everyone's going to see like, oh. This is the idiot who said we shouldn't pay Saquon Barkley. Huh. Yeah, nobody agreed to do season two. No, exactly. And that was, it was a wrap after that. So, I mean, that level of access to this type of content, I think is going to make for some great television.
As somebody who's been back there and knows that like, you know, and I said this last episode, the one part I do miss. about working at WWE in creative is that rush you get going into Guerrilla. There's literally nothing.
And they're like it. It's like being a quarterback and being an offensive coordinator at the same time. And it's a rush and a... shock to your nervous system that I've yet to recalibrate to, you know, I've yet to have that same feeling doing anything else, you know, and being able to see that.
or have people see what what that room is like when is going great or when is going bad or you know something incredible is about to happen i think it's going to make for some incredibly compelling television when somebody gets hurt, when somebody's not hurt, when everybody is being kayfabed except for Hunter and the truck and whoever's in the ring.
All these things are things that really happen in there. So I think people will be a little bit shocked just to see the level of secrecy that happens. right before TV happens. I'm sure there's going to be moments where it's like, there's what we know. There's kayfabe, though, and there's like the super duper kayfabe where it's like Nick Khan knows, Hunter knows, and whoever's in the truck knows what's about to go down. And even people are sitting there in the gorilla like...
Like us, like fans, like what the hell is about to happen right now? And that's going to be, I think, some really fun TV is to sort of see how that all sort of... works itself out. It wouldn't surprise me. The office ends up being the heel in this show.
Oh yeah. I can see that. That's my, that's my, there's definitely a few. Oh, Nikon. Oh, they're, they're demanding all the, you know, it's, it's, it's easy. Not like they're really going to play Mr. McMahon style villain. I just mean, that's a, that's a kind of easy story to tell. You know, we're out here trying to write this, write Shakespeare. And they're demanding all this, you know, making demands of us. So it's just the discomfort, you know, whatever.
I think that would be, or the, you know, the Lee fittings of the world. I think they're going to play that up, that tension up a lot. So it'll be. I get it. I think that you got to protect. We were just talking before we came on the air about Shaq telling the story about when he first. When he first made his forays into wrestling, he was, you know, his kayfabe was shattered when he saw the people who just wrestled a match hanging out in the back together.
Cody Rhodes actually tells a similar story about going backstage with his dad when he was a kid and seeing his dad and Ric Flair shake hands and his dad always, you know, his dad who constantly kayfabed him like his whole life. I think his dad said something like, you know, in the locker room, it's nothing but respect. It's when we get out there that, you know, the tensions start flowing or whatever. You got to come up with a storyline. You know, you got to come up with an excuse.
I do think you have to protect some of that. And I don't mean to protect it like no one can know the truth, but I've said it a million times. What makes pro wrestling really unique is that the wrestlers and us, everybody. we interact with wrestling as if it's a real sport, right? We all know it's fake, but in the moment that it's happening, when you're sitting there in the crowd, you're cheering and booing and whatever, as if it's real.
and you can't shatter that right we could we can't have we can't have you know John Cena defeats Cody Rhodes or or. Seth Rollins, you know, and Paul Heyman turns on Roman Reigns and CM Punk and joins up with Seth Rollins and then go. And then the post-show is the documentary footage of them hugging, all four of them hugging in the gorilla, right? We got to protect it a little.
But I do think that there's a reasonable amount of time where you can just tell the story and not get too much into the wrestlers and their performances, but tell the story of telling the story. But also, you know, one thing that they did mention to us about the Netflix era is that like... The curtain is going to be pulled back more than it's ever been anyway. You know, like they're not hiding like the first. promo that they showed on Raw on Netflix was them using terms.
that are insider wrestling terms. And that was like a Clutcher Pearls moment. So, like, WWE is fully aware that they're letting the world know, hey. This is an entertainment product. This is a show. This is not a sport. You know, like this is a show. So I think everything that leads up to that is only going to get bigger and bigger and bigger, especially if it's, if it's, if it's successful, like if a ton of people watch it. We're getting season three, season 10, season a million.
of wwe unreal it's going to be like the real world rules challenge where eventually the the the real world and the road rules just became a feeder system for the challenge At some point, we're just going to start having professional wrestling so that Unreal can keep going. If it really succeeds. Yeah, of course. If it's successful, for sure.
I can't wait to watch it though, man. I'm so looking forward to that show. I think it's going to be super dope. Yeah. I mean, obviously, they're going to protect, I would assume, very protective of people's personal lives.
I mean, that said, if you have a show like this, like, and you have like a brawl out or something, like, can you avoid it? I don't know. I don't know. Everyone's going to be demanding it, you know? Stone Cold, when he walked out for the first time, you know, we were supposed to... That would be an episode people would be demanding to see. So there will be some tension there, right? Of course. But I think having the distance and the time to tell the stories, I think, will probably be helpful.
but yeah it'll be it'll be interesting it'll be interesting to see how they throw out all those needles man oh i know what i wanted to talk about today's the uh the anniversary of the signer math promo As we say goodbye. 17 years ago today, one of the greatest promos of all time. But I, I got a 66 and two-thirds chance of winning because Kurt Angle knows he can't beat me and he's not even going to try.
So, Samoa Joe, you take your 33 and a third chance, minus my 25% chance, and you got an 8 and a third chance of winning at sacrifice. I was rewatching it. And I really wanted to ask you, how do you watch the Steiner math promo? And by that, I mean, when you watch that promo. Are you watching it thinking... Damn, Scott Steiner is like secretly a genius or apparently a genius. I don't mean to diminish what people's expectations of him might be.
Or do you think it's more of just like a work of like naive art? Like, is it just like he's like somehow stumbled into this brilliant. I think it's more of the latter with a touch of the former. Okay. It's like, when you watch the Steiner math promo. Or would you just watch any TNA from that era? Mm-hmm. You're just kind of thinking, these are guys just getting another paycheck. Here's another wrestling promotion that's paying these guys. Yeah, does he give...
Is there such a lack of fucks given that stuff like that can happen? But that's the beauty of it, right? It's like if you record, I'm not going to make any assumptions here, but it's like, if you've ever done a podcast, well, I mean, I've done a podcast, a couple of beers in, you know, when we do like post shows and whatever.
And you're like, man, that was the greatest podcast of all time. And everybody compliments you on it. And you're just like, I should just drink before every show. And then you're like, you know what? I should not drink before every show. That would be a terrible idea. But is it something like that where it's just like, man, I just let it fly. And if only I could recapture that moment, that would be great. But it's not going to be like that every time.
What do you think? Is that, is that what he was? He just let it, would he just, just let it go? And it was just accidentally brilliant. I think the beauty of the Steinemath promo is that like, he didn't try to go back to the wall too often. Oftentimes when like something great like that happens. There's t-shirts. There's been all these other things. I don't know if it was really appreciated in the moment to that degree, but I agree. He didn't keep going back to it.
He didn't go back to it. So I appreciate that heavily. I do. And I think it's, it's, it's stood the test of time, man. Like that's what stood the test of time. over the years uh of this you don't get to pick what's on your tombstone you know well i guess you can have it made but but yeah i mean that you don't In wrestling, it's almost never... it's almost always an accident for better or worse. You know, the things that you're remembered by or remembered.
But it's that is just it's so great. It's so great. I love it because I think regardless of really how you watch it, it does sort of. add a layer of self-awareness to the product, right? It's like everybody knows how ridiculous and silly. And that's basically what I've been, you know, arguing for for so long, just like wrestling has to be at least to some extent. So. Because it is what it is, you know? Man, I love that promo.
Did you see Braun Breaker's redo of it on WrestleMania weekend? Oh, yeah. That's it. And the best part about it is that the math was sort of accurate. I think that's the best part about the entire promo. I mean, there were some moments there that he probably could have carried the one, but...
You know, I got what he was going for. Well, no, the fact that he was able to hold those numbers sort of like in his head in a logical fashion regardless of the... non-mathematical mathematicality of the whole thing that's what's really impressive about it you know that's the part where I'm just like dude I don't if I were a wrestler I would never be able to do that promo regardless of
what is like what the plan was regardless of it was a good idea at the time it was impressive man um just such a good such a So good. Well, happy birthday, Steiner math. And good for Braun for getting all that in before Scott's son comes up into the main, decides to be a wrestler and lays claim to the Scott Steiner. Braun's just laying claim to all the Steiner legacy before he loses half of it when his cousin comes up.
Anyway, I guess that's probably it. We've probably touched on everything. Yeah, we definitely have. You want to get your plugs in? Yeah, 7 p.m. in Brooklyn. New episode today with Malik Neighbors. Go check that out. And that's it. Say less with Caslo Kia Rosie. Check that on my YouTube page, my podcast page. But that's all I got for you, buddy. That's it. You can find me here. You can find me on the press box. We'll be back on Thursday with another episode of the Masked Man Show.
Thanks to our producer, Brian H. Waters. Thanks to our EP, Ben Cruz. Thanks to our producer, Brian H. Waters. Thanks to our EP, Ben Cruz. We'll be back on Monday with a new episode of The Masked Man Show. Thank you all for listening. Finn Balor's going to be okay. We'll see you back here next week, humanoids. Peace.