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that michael jordan is joining what uh nba on nbc studio crew like he's gonna be sitting at the desk his official title as of right now is a special contributor which could mean many different things but yeah yes mj will be I don't know what he's talking about the game, which is very exciting. Okay. So here's my question for you. Okay. Tom Brady in the NFL, but he had just retired, you know, and.
Well, whatever. That was still a pretty big deal. Is there anybody in pro wrestling history that is too big of a deal? That seems like Michael Jordan too famous? to be on any kind of studio show. Man. No. I don't think so I don't think so I don't think people truly grasp the level of fame michael jordan has like i think i think the immediate answer that you'd give me i'm like oh you know the usual suspects the rock john cena batista
any of those people but even the rock sort of has to bow down the rock's probably michael jordan's probably the only person who makes the rock bow down as far as level of fame i mean yes oh absolutely i mean The Rock's all connected with TKO, so there'd be some sort of, like...
line there but it would still be kind of weird if he was doing like the post show on that on like you know peacock or whatever right or they just have him do a you know it's special contributors and maybe they just have him do like some like read some
cold open like to start every show start every big game or pay-per-view or something like that or maybe they got one of those uh you know those special interest pieces that they like they got one for like marshawn lynch for like nfl on thursdays where they just like
send them places and do stuff or yeah but that would be even weirder if michael jordan did that michael jordan was like doing interview like one-on-one interviews with like heartwarming stories about the players like michael jordan doesn't give a shit about that no The only segment outside of like him critiquing the game I want to see Michael Jordan do is a gambling segment. That is literally like all that gambling. I don't even I don't even know if there's a bag big enough.
for a gambling company to have michael jordan do your ad it's like it's and it's it's categorically probably impossible so you probably just give them a share of your company like here 10% of draft games just to read our ads or something or FanDuel or whatever. That would be smart.
fanatic sports books are all that stuff i was gonna say jordan should start his own but you know if someone's just gonna hand you a bag i guess that's great i mean yeah i'm sure at this point in time he knows just as much as his worth is but i say all that to say i don't even think there's a wrestle that even
Okay, so there's no one... There's a screaming distance of the level of fame that Michael Jordan has. But would you be shocked if John Cena, who we'll talk about more in a second, announced that he was... After his retirement, he was going to join the post-show. He could be a special contributor with Big E. No, just sitting at the desk. Full-on sitting at the desk.
would that would that blow your mind nah i mean would the rock doing it blow your mind the rock maybe only because it seems like better things to do at this time that and and it kind of seems like not even better things he has other things to do at this time where it seems like john cena doing it
would be the closest to, like, Tom Brady and Jordan Fox. Sure. Where it's like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. And, like, he just only does the biggest of the big games or the biggest of the big matches at PLA. It's like, I can fathom that. The Rock, I don't know, man. The last few times we've kind of just let him talk wrestling with no real restrictions and stuff like that. Oh, no!
The way he talks ball is a little too inside baseball for a lot of people, I think. I don't know if there's a line that like... The Rock could dance on where I could still be entertained that this is scripted entertainment. and also get a little bit behind the scenes. You think he's too real? I think he's too real. I think he'll keep it too funky because he has nobody to reign him in. Whereas John Cena to me at least.
strikes himself as somebody who's almost always willing to play ball and will use his fame and his level to sort of like help elevate a storyline where the rock will just be like Well, yeah, you know, we wanted to do this thing with Cody, but he was kind of getting a pussy, so we went the other way.
You know, I think Cena would still play ball a little bit. The Rock would keep it too real. What about Hogan? Would it shock you if Hogan was doing the after show on Peacock? There is no wrestling legend I would want to hear last. That might be actually the best use of Hulk Hogan. Just have him get on there and just tell utter lies all the time. It'd be entertaining. Hulk Hogan doesn't even talk ball.
Interestingly, like all of the Hulk Hogan interviews or podcasts you'll see is always just peppered with, well, he's definitely lying here. But on the flip side, I got like Bret Hart. amazing to hear talk ball like amazing to hear him talk about the way matches come together and you know what he likes and if he doesn't like something you know
He truly feels that way, right? Like, it's not anything, you know, you don't feel like you gotta work. I feel like Hulk Hogan has been a while. He's always working. The whole of him has been on for 60 years, at least. He has been on all the time. And when he's off... At least a horrible decision. Dude, but how great would it have been last night if it had been like after, or not last night, Saturday night after Backlash, if they had just gone to the studio team?
And you got, you know, Rosenberg and Biggie, everybody's sitting up there and Hulk Hogan just sitting in the middle and he's just like, oh. I choked trying to do a bad Hulk Hogan. If he was just like, I remember when I wrestled Randy Orton in the Tokyo Dome, brother. We drew 200,000 fans from all over the world. President. Washington was there in attendance. You know, Mr. Hogan, I just don't think that really happened. This is what I'm saying. This is the best possible.
See, that's the only version of Ogogun I think I could enjoy. But, you know, it's true. I mean, listen. It's a very short list of people. You'd be like, I can't believe that you're gracing us with your presence. Right. I mean, Punk's already done it. I think Punk would be the most unlikely, but he already did this. He's probably the biggest star that I could see doing that. Yeah.
He's probably, that's probably the level of fame where, and we've heard CNN say he'll still sort of be around wrestling, but just not as an interim competitor. So I think there's a possibility there, but I think the punk level of fame. I'm probably like Randy Orton too. Like Randy Orton and CM Punk are probably like the two most famous wrestlers you can get that would do this.
Yeah, I don't see Roman Reigns doing it. No, me neither. Is Bret Hart the answer, though, for a separate question? If you're running... studio team. You're in there with Lee Fitting, deciding who's going to be making these calls. Who do you throw the biggest bag at? Who's the unicorn? Who's your white whale? Oh, man. Who's my unicorn? Who's my white whale? I mean, Bret Hart's pretty high on the list.
is probably the highest on the list as far as people that aren't wrestling anymore. Uh-huh. Um... I'd have to go with that. I mean, John Cena, I'd throw the Tom Brady bag too. I'd be like, John, we only need you for six shows a year. It's just Mania SummerSlam.
rumble all that stuff and like we'll we'll we'll tailor everything around you it's weird that they haven't had stone cold do that stuff though because he's so perceptive on his podcast damn yeah that's a good answer stone cold stone cold that was like
I think Stone Cold had the best, you know, no disrespect to our show. I think Stone Cold had the best, like, wrestling, like, interview show. Yeah, because he cared, because he tried. He was actually committed to doing it well. I mean, I've heard all kinds of stories about him working on
the broken skull sessions or whatever and how like seriously he takes that yeah i mean and it was great stuff it's still watchable to this day you know what i mean it's evergreen so that's the best the best compliment you get for your podcast that's evergreen like if it's weeks later It's still relevant and all stone cold
Stone Cold's probably a great, the best ball talker also, as far as guys who have been there as well. Yeah, he's definitely better than Brad. I'd throw out the Jordan bag at Stone Cold's team.
Yeah, and Austin can also kind of be in character without it being like, you know, off-putting. Well, he's him. He's him. It's Stone Cold being calm that endears you, but if he's off... on the love that hogan's on it's still gonna be entertaining because that's really him he's gonna talk he's gonna say this guy sucks and this guy's raising hell and kicking ass and whatever and it'll still be good but would be even better
as if stone cold wasn't stone cold and he was just talking like steve williams and and and talking ball that way then i'm like well okay this is worth the check i'm writing we're getting like real inside baseball knowledge with like one of the most
brilliant minds, performers of all time. So yeah, Stone Cold Steve Austin, final answer there. It took us a while to get there, but I think we're in agreement. Now, speaking of Evergreen, let's start the podcast and talk about some very time-specific stuff that won't last.
I'm good, man. We got ahead of Backlash this weekend. Happy Mother's Day. Oh, yeah. Happy Mother's Day to my wife, to my mom, to my mother-in-law, to everybody, all the mothers out there. All the moms out there. Absolutely. Jazz, my ladies, my mommy. Everybody, we love you. we are nothing without you wonderful ladies we went out for a picnic at this like overlook and um Oh, we did a picnic, too. Oh, really? And Goat's Head Overlook, it was fantastic. Over on the side.
um there were all these like giant trees that had been you know taken down and people had tagged them or whatever and i was out there with my son and um and i just looked over and one of them had mother written in giant letters uh and this and and it was sort of covered up and i was just like oh my god did somebody tag happy mother's day what a weirdly sweet thing to do
And I went over and I moved the logs that were covering it and it actually just said motherfucker in giant letters. And some nice person had come and... tactfully covered the second half of it with sticks and logs so i moved that i had to put them back then because i don't want to be blousing this place up anyway
um backlash was this weekend um we have smackdown to talk about too because now with these like five match pay-per-view cards like that's i want to talk about the format i have some thoughts before we get to backlash we should acknowledge.
that wrestling legend sapu has passed away we got a great piece it's probably when you're listening this up on the ringer.com from oliver lee bateman got another piece from full schneider uh deep cuts great wrestling matches that you should check out um Sabu was I can only speak from a personal point of view. I think... sort of tragically underrated living legend.
you know like i don't think during his prime or what i don't even know what you would call it during the heyday of vcw when you you know his brief run and wcw I don't even think I ever appreciated how transformative a figure he was I mean he was he was
He was, you know, the dude who made table school. And he was the dude who made... you know that sort of high-flying style like he like invented so much of that stuff he and rob van dam who obviously came up together but he was the one working over there in mexico um really just like
just frontier and, and, you know, FNW just like changing the game, just flipping and flying around. They were already bleeding and stuff over there, the barbed wire, the chairs, everything, but like, he just changed it. And I think that, that. I mean, you see what, like, Sami Zayn tweeting about him and talking about how important he is in the industry. You know the reverence that his contemporaries had for him.
but i mean it's just crazy like he really did create the wrestling world that we know today in so many ways um and i think that There's a lot of reasons why he wasn't as famous as some of his contemporaries. But I think his... His significance in the business outweighs probably everybody that came from ECW, everybody that we acknowledge in that genre. I mean, he is just an absolute trailblazer. Yeah.
I feel like anybody who... takes pro wrestling seriously whether as a content creator whether as a podcaster whether as and you're in any sort of if you've ever made a single red penny off of pro wrestling i feel like Your pivotal moment comes when you first discovered ECW, right? ECW, I think, was such a touchpoint and so many wrestling fans, you know, love for this.
That time is extremely pivotal to, I think, how you watch wrestling now. Because to me, it was the first time I legitimately thought somebody could die wrestling. Right? Like, it was the first time I legitimately thought that, like, oh. What I'm watching on the USA Network and Turner is one thing, but this is real.
right and sabo was the guy that more than anyone made me think oh this is for real like this dude uh you know the homicidal genocidal suicidal maniac uh there was these like they'd have these promos back in the day during those ECW taping or they'd have like the camera like pan up to Sabu and you see like all the scars on his body oh my god like She was like a street fighting character in real life. He was so much. It's so crazy, kids.
Public service announcement. If you use super glue to seal your wounds, you are one, an elite badass, but two, you will wind up with some scars. Like that's how that works. You got to go to the doctor if you want that thing to fade away. He looked like hamburger at times. I mean, and he was, and we all remember like his match with Terry Funk where his arm was bleeding so profusely. He just taped it off duct tape. Like it's crazy.
crazy stuff. He wrestled with a broken neck and a neck brace on flying around. That VHS infomercial they would show in between ECW shows where we see Sabu getting his neck broken. There's just so many times that You would watch Sambo on ECW and be like this dude is exactly
I don't want to say the mascot of DC, though, because that's almost demeaning him. No, that was Sandman anyway, but go on. All right, Sandman. But he's kind of like, he's... the embodiment of what that entire like we all know paul hayman was the brains all right like we all know hayman was like the the mastermind through all this you know insane sort of cast of characters
But if you had to rank who was the dude who represented the insanity of what ECW was the most, it had to be Sabu. Not just because of the believability of him of really thinking like this dude can kill someone or can die in the ring But like you said man like all these hot-flying wrestlers all these wrestlers that we've seen Evolve from them if you've ever did a springboard any Right?
that's sabo right like well i think i think specifically it's the it's the the kind of throwing your body sideways into your opponent that we see all the time that the hardies did that like whatever you know like that was pure sabo And you're right, all these guys are so influenced by him. Now, of course, Sabu's uncle was the original Sheik, Ed Farhat, who was the original hardcore wrestler by most estimates.
and uh and he learned from him it's funny you read oliver's piece up on the ringer.com go check it out you know as far as the actual like bell to bell stuff plunder not included Farah was a real traditionalist and trained and trained Sabu, whose real name is Terry Brunk, by the way, just an incredible, weird wrestling coincidence. He wanted him to work super conservatively. It's the old school, just like every wrist lock builds to the climax, sort of, philosophy.
And Sabu and Rob Van Dam who started training with him just would like go in there after hours when the Sheik wasn't around and just start throwing their bodies like doing all this crazy stuff. And the first time that Sheik went to Japan and when he was already pretty old, he brought Sabu with him. And when he looked around, he was like, shit, man, just go do your thing. They want something big.
And Sabu became like an instant living legend in Japan, kind of somewhat using his uncle's reputation. But he immediately just changed the game. Everybody was just like, what are we watching? I mean, wrestling is one of the few matches where you can just say wrestling really changed, like right in front of everybody's eyes. And, you know, I mean, some of this...
It's funny when you watch him. I think a lot of people whose exposure to him came from the WWE side of ECW. The sort of like, I'm a network wrestling viewer, but I'm aware of ECW. And then a lot of those guys came over. I think it was easy to overlook him. And I'm speaking from personal experience here, even at the time, because, well, one, there were a lot of guys who were all kind of doing the same thing, right? Maybe not to the level of him, but it was like...
you didn't think of like the, like, you know, one of those guys. We're talking about the original Jerry Lawler invasion of BCW, not WWE CW. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but, but all of that kind of thrown together, it's like, even still, it's just a bunch of dudes who have chairs and tables and whatever. You don't know which one is supposed to stand out, and even though Sabu can do this crazy aerial stuff in the ring.
you of course weren't aware of his, his, the legacy that he created, you know, like even prior to coming into wrestling in the United States on that level, you know? Um,
And it's just, I mean, part of that is just, it's a similar thing with the Sheik, man. I mean, everybody knows about the original Sheik now, I guess, all of us wrestling fans, but like... the reason why we call him the original sheik is because like the iron sheik stole his you know and like whatever he's a very different wrestler but he's the iron sheik is the more famous sheik right i mean that's that that's the one that the sheik is one of the most transformative wrestlers
you know, in wrestling history. And he's a little bit lost to history. He was just big time wrestling in Detroit. You know, he's not like as, he's not as well known as a lot of the other stars of that era, despite how big he was. And, um, i mean sabu really deserves a legacy on par with his uncles it's it's just really crazy
I think there's probably an element towards the spots that we know. By the time we were seeing Sambu, he was doing this sort of Ric Flair style, like put a match together, but really just go for these spots. Listen. The first time you saw somebody throw a chair to their opponent so that they could kick him in the face and hit, you know, kick the chair and hit him in the face, it was the most amazing thing you've ever seen. Yeah.
There's diminishing returns after that. In terms of viewership, it's not going to just shock you and crack you up at the same time. You know what it's like? It's funny you mentioned Michael Jordan in the opener, right? It's like the first time you saw Michael Jordan go up for a dunk, hang in the air, and then lay it in. And everybody was like, oh my god, this is the craziest thing of all time.
the dominant mitchell just did that in the playoffs this past weekend and it's just like okay you know what i mean like there's nothing like the first time you see some shit like that. Like, it's supposed to blow your mind. When Jordan was playing the Lakers way back when, a million years ago, I'm very old. And he did that, remember when he was going up, it looked like he was going up for a dunk, and then he just for no reason at all switched hands and laid it in with his left?
Yes. Yeah. I remember like Arsenio Hall was like complaining about that on the Arsenio Hall show. Did you really have to do that to us? It's just showing us up, you know, like whatever. But now like people do crazy stuff all the time and it's like, you know, it's not, but you're right. That's a, it's a good comp. And, and when, you know, to see Sabu do so much, the stuff they did on and on and on. And it's a relative old age.
It was really impressive. He had his last match, I think, against Joey Janela at WrestleMania weekend. Yeah, it was right before our show, actually, right before Heels Have Eyes. Sabu's last match. So a lot of the folks that... I spent time with him. That was the last time seeing him, was that night, which is crazy to think about now. We all did it in the same building in the Palms in Vegas.
So a lot of the guys that were, they were wrapping up as we were getting started for fourth rope. So there was a lot of time in that green room that, you know, people, you know. went up to him and like i saw him i didn't you know i didn't know him personally but you know you know it's like wrestlemania week and it's like oh that's taboo oh that's jbl oh that's you know what i mean you just kind of see them and it's crazy to think and that's man that's
That's the rough thing about WrestleMania weekend, man. Like, it's... It's a reunion of sorts for so many folks, but I can count on two hands now. how many times it was like my last time seeing a wrestler or my last time my friends saw a wrestler that they were very close with so um it's beautiful but at the same time it sucks because man that dude He's truly an innovator in this industry, man. And ECW... for what it was, for everything it sort of like gave to
Pro wrestling at large, especially now in 2025, man. There's so much of that that's attributed to Sam Boon and Sami Zayn was right. Sabu should be in the Hall of Fame. It would have been great to have him in there when he was alive.
But knowing how Sabu talks, I can understand why. There was probably some trepidation there. His memoir is just... incredible yeah yeah a little insane and uh his his like online presence was there's someone circulated an old sabu tweet from like 2010 or something where it was like stephanie mcmahon thank you see this
Stephanie just went to some event and took a picture with her husband and sort of just did one of those tweets where you thank your husband for being there and being your support, like whatever. It was not a WWE thing. It was like something out in the business world.
and it was just a picture of them hugging and it was like thank you triple h for being my rock or like whatever and sabu just like quote tweeted it and wrote gross Yeah, but that's a boom and and there's there's definitely many more stories like that with what sabo, you know, he's definitely As folks would say an acquired taste if he didn't know him, but you know all the people that didn't almost were by love You know, as fans, man, he's All you can ever ask for.
is you know those people that put their bodies on their line to entertain you and at the end of the day man like that dude sabu obviously used his i mean just to to bounce off what you said sabu obviously used weapons
like his uncle. His uncle had the famous fireballs, used the pencil to poke people, all this stuff. I'm not saying Sabu was some sort of originalist or anything. But the real evolutionary shift... sat with like was what you just said it was going from being willing to do anything to win a match like his uncle did you know i'll use any kind of plunder to being willing to do anything to myself to win a match
And it wasn't just the gimmickry of, I'm going to jump off this top. I mean, listen, when Shane McMahon jumps off the top of the cage, he's really putting his body on the line. There's not like a safe way, particularly, you know, purely safe way to do that. It's a fall 40 feet.
But it's not that kind of like gimmicked fall. There wasn't these sort of like just planned little bumps that like are going to look cool and then hopefully everyone's going to walk away. Like Sabu's stuff, a lot of his stuff, like the plan was not for him to walk away unscathed. He knew he was going to get skated. you know and that was just the way he worked and that was and he was just
Someone tweeted, I forgot who, it was like every single Sabu match was a highlights match. It was a match that you would put on a DVD back in the day. It's like every single one. And it would have been the craziest thing a lot of people had ever seen if they had been exposed to SAPO.
his entire body of work will go down in history in a way that I don't think anybody else as will. And yeah, I mean, he changed the way that we... that we watch wrestling, that wrestlers wrestle, that people, yeah, I mean, he is one of the real pioneers of the sport. So, you know, RIP Sabu, it's, you know, sad to see him go so young. Yeah, 60 is pretty young, man. But, yeah, RIP Sabu. loved watching this dude wrestle man and uh truly uh
I think the embodiment of what ECW was and what changed my fandom as a wrestling fan, as a kid, man. So, yeah. RIP Sabu, man. Rest in peace. The PLA this weekend. We had a backlash. Very mixed reviews. And by mixed reviews, I don't mean just like they're just the normal, like just, you know, some people gave it up.
B, some people gave it an A- sort of situation. Immediately after this show, I saw a bunch of people, I saw a lot of people saying this was like, so bad it was a disgrace and people saying it was freaking great like it was kind of nuts the levels here what was your take On Backlash 2025. I thought Backlash was good. I think a lot of the... I think a lot of the...
The negative reaction probably comes from the main event and probably from John Cena's hero run as a whole, which I think we can get into later. But I think the actual show was fine. I mean, obviously, you knew the four-way. I said in the beginning, the four-way is probably going to be the show stealer. The fact that they put it on first was probably their indication that like, hey, go out there and get busy. And they did. what else we had uh what you call it
I thought Becky Lynch and Lyra Vicaria was really good, man. Yeah, it was very good. She continues to raise her game. I mean, this is obviously the point of this feud, but it is crazy. Yeah, she's definitely... you can absolutely see the Becky Lynch like I'm gonna come back. I'm gonna you know I'm gonna come back. I'm not just gonna do work just because there's this young star that I'm trying to put over. It's like...
Yeah, we can put her over but like I'm also still a very big star and like the fact that they're both sort of like Clashing in a way that doesn't make Lyra Valkyria look like lesser than Becky Lynch is super impressive so far in this view. Man, what else? Do you want to talk about the main event? Should we just go into Cena Orton? Well, first of all, I just want to say... Moonwalk it back? Yeah, we should talk about the main event. Okay.
what was john cena's quote about coming back about retiring he said which one well no the one where he said like i'm basically like once i know i don't have it anymore i'm just gonna walk away i'm not gonna I'm not going to put you guys through that or whatever. I'm not going to go there. When I'm a step slow, this is his promise before WrestleMania. When I'm a step slow, I'm out the door.
He said, I made a promise to the audience. When I'm a step slow, I'm out the door. I'm there. I feel a step slow. I don't want everyone to buy a ticket and feel robbed. That's all. Good sentiment. I think we're officially in the he's a step slow. place now. Now that's fine. We've all paid lots of money over the years to see wrestlers who were a step slow who maybe should already be retired.
And you end up making up for it with stuff like schmozzy finishes and a lot of gaga and people running in and GMs getting RKO'd. our truths and everything else. Um, But I think we're at the point now where I think even you would admit the match, like the WrestleMania match with Cody was not a gimmick to be a bad match. This is just sort of where our world champion John Cena is right now. I'll say this.
And shout out Bomani Jones, because I'm completely biting Bomani Jones' reference right now from the right time. But he said Stephen Curry is kind of like Stevie Wonder, all right? If Stevie Wonder is about to drop a brand new album, I don't want to hear it. But as Stevie Wonder is about to go do Superstition and then songs like K-Life, all the classics,
Yes, I'm in there And that's kind of where I'm at with John Cena and Randy Orton like I Know what I was getting at. I know what I was getting going into this match. I'm like, bro Just give me the classic. Give me the entrances Give me the stare downs give me the tilt or the the twisting power slam Give me the RKO's give me the punts give me the STF
Give me all the stuff that you guys have been doing for the past 20 plus years. I'm not expecting John Cena and Randy Orton to reinvent the wheel here. What I expected them to go out and do is have a fine wrestling match that isn't necessarily going to blow my socks off bell to bell. And... For what that was worth. Am I grading them on a curve? Probably. Probably a little bit. But it's John Cena versus Randy Orton for like literally the 300th time. Even the past 299 versions of this.
Didn't necessarily blow my socks off unless like it was a crazy stipulation like the TLC match or the championship unification matches or you know the hell in the cells or anything like that I went in there with my expectations low, but my openness to be entertained very high. Yeah. Because I just wanted to see the classic. Is John Cena a step slow? Yeah. Yeah, he's definitely a step slow. i don't think randy orton is i think randy orton has always worked slow so he's never
He never gets the ability to be like, oh man, he doesn't look as crisp or as sharp as he's always been. And he's always been a... he's reinvented himself a few times. I think he'll always find a way to work depending on his opponent at a... acceptable pace or whatever, you know, but yeah, this one was, I mean, I, I agree with you and your reading of the match. I, I went in with an open mind and was not mad at the match at all.
And especially for this one. We all talked about the scene of matches that we want to see. I mean, I think I'm going to be a little bit... I'm going to have a little bit of a different point of view for the R-Truth-John Cena match. Sorry. But John Cena versus Randy Orton is just... It's fine. It's one of those matches that I knew I was going to see on this retirement tour, and I was excited when Randy Orton RKO'd him.
And, you know, I'm happy that I was there to watch it, not there in person, on my couch to watch it. Yeah, it was totally... I think, you know, it's going to be one of the ongoing sort of things with this Cena retirement run is that there's going to be a number of these matches that there's no real question about who's going to win. I mean, that might be all of the matches until November or whatever.
you know, December even. And that's just sort of, you know, it's certainly better than just John Cena doing his retirement run with no stakes. Right? Mean yeah, I think the lack of stakes in this match probably made it My expectations pretty low, you know that wasn't like you know there was no stakes here it was like is we're gonna win probably not Absolutely not.
If he won, he'd still be two championships short of John Cena, so it wasn't like some massive chance to make history or anything like that. It was just a fine wrestling match. Perfectly normal post-playoff watching Saturday night main event. No pun intended. But the R-Truth of it all, I mean... Let's talk about it. R-Truth interrupts the match or interferes in the match to save his childhood idol, John Cena. One of the great running jokes in pro wrestling.
R-Truth is an icon. And ended up, you know, losing the match basically for costing, or sorry, costing Randy Orton the match. Yeah, so... One thing I noticed after the John Cena match was that he did seem conflicted, right? Like in the post, in the post, you know, in the MCU end credits. they've been on on Backlash. They focused on John Cena through his entire walk back and for the first time since his heel turn at Elimination Chamber.
He looked like he was questioning himself a lot. Like he looked, you know, he looked conflicted as he was walking back. And then in the press conference, he started this press conference by pretty much saying like, hey, i know i haven't been great to you guys in the past i'm gonna do my best to be a better person like it kind of seems like he's already sort of having this change of heart and to be honest
I didn't think the R-Truth match was going to happen this soon. I thought... i thought you're gonna save that one for for for survivor series yeah honestly like i thought i thought And it kind of, it's weird, right? Like it kind of plays into how this heel turn of John Cena is going. I personally believe that the John Cena heel turn was going as well as folk. As maybe Cena wanted it to go.
I always thought R-Truth would have been the perfect person to get John Cena to see the error of his ways and be like, dude, this guy looks up to you. He's a lifelong fan of you. He believes in you, all this type of shit. Our truth, the guy that everybody loves. would have been the guy to make John Cena at least see like, dude, he can be the embodiment of the fan. John Cena can't fight the fans.
Because most of this heel turn hasn't really been about Cody, hasn't been about The Rock, hasn't been about any of this. It's been John Cena against the fans for the past 20 plus years and how bad they've treated them. And he can't fight a fan. But the closest person you can fight as a fan is R-Truth. And I don't think anybody thinks R-Truth is beating John Cena for the WWE Championship.
But you definitely get the feeling that our truth is gonna tell some sort of emotional He's gonna be some emotional touchpoint and John Cena on how he sees the fans and how people that's interesting So would why do it so soon? i mean do you think they're they're gonna give up on the Cena heel turn sooner rather than later than? I don't know. That's why I think it's very interesting. I do not know. If you would have asked me if the John Cena heel turn was going...
As good as it could be since Elimination Chamber, I'd have to say no. i don't think it is no i think it's entertaining i think it's entertaining i think it's i i love the promos i love him talking about raising your your generations of children and you watching me be great at home and all those Poignant promos. I think those are fun but i think all of our expectations were hogan level hollywood hogan level like success as far as this heel turn is concerned and i think we can all agree
It hasn't really hit that yet. So... doing the r-truth match now is definitely interesting because maybe they get that feeling maybe they get that thing of like he's not really all the way there yet And maybe you push R-Truth to the front of the line now to really drive home the fact that this dude is evil.
Or start the, oh man, maybe I'm not doing this the right way. Like the inner conflict that he's going through. It popped into my head during this match because I'm constantly trying to imagine what this timeline would have looked like.
had Cena waited until WrestleMania to turn. The build to WrestleMania would have been, as discussed, slightly less interesting as a baby face baby face thing but then you know you could really turn it up if the moment was at Wrestlemania I don't even know the mechanism but I kind of thought like we all know logically outside of kayfabe in the real world This whole run is a sort of, it's a cool story if they do it right, but it's a thank you to John Cena, right? It's almost like an honorary run.
I was trying to imagine a world in which John Cena... it was going to be given that honorary run or even a thing in the match with cody if cody does the does the sean michaels rick flair thing and just says like you know i'm sorry thank you like whatever before he like puts on the last crossroads and that's the moment where john cena's like I do not accept your, your charity. Right. And just like John Cena, just.
and like whatever or you know or just like that's a heel turn right it's just like like f you you think this is just like i think i'm somebody you can put out to pasture like give me a gold watch and say goodbye it's just like no like i'm here and i don't care what i have to do to hold on to this thing for as long as i can That'll be a great twist. That'll be a great twist at the end. if he tries to go i'm sorry i love you As you alluded to, R-Truth shows up in the press conference
and seen a F-U-Z, or sorry, S-T-F-U, or no, no, F-U-Z, whatever. The attitude adjustment day from our KG era. The one real fantasy booking thing I'm mad about is it would have been great if Cena had done the attitude adjustment and then just sat back down to answer the next question. That's what I thought I was going to do. Just leave Archer without there. It's a light take.
You missed the opportunity there. But yeah, I mean, so it is interesting to think about what they're going to do next. I mean, it looks like we're going to get our truth at Saturday night's main event. Like this is going to be a whole, you know. not exactly a big time pay-per-view thing, but it's still significant. And this is going to be the biggest moment of our truth career. I mean, by a lot, which is kind of crazy.
Yeah, I mean, it's... Listen, the match wasn't the best thing ever, but, you know, this was Backlash. Like, this is your Randy Orton Memorial-John Cena rival match. I do want to talk about just the sort of pay-per-view philosophy in general. This is five matches. There's a million more matches they could have put on there and decided not to. It's definitely part of the Triple H booking philosophy now. We're just going to have smaller pay-per-views that are not, aside from the majors.
And I like it. I like it. But it's a little bit like mind-blowing when I'm like looking at the show rundown for today. And like half the stuff I want to talk about, God, who knows if we'll have time with everything else we're talking about, but half the stuff I want to talk about is from SmackDown.
And it's stuff that didn't even come up on the PLA. It wasn't even a part of Backlash. Because Backlash is just this very self-contained five match thing. There have been points in... WWE history and pro wrestling history in general but you look at the way that they run these things historically the point was the point of TV was to get people to go to the arena on Friday or Saturday night. Right. You run basically a loss leader TV show on Saturday afternoon.
in your local territory, and you want to get people to go buy tickets, right? And WWE has been through these different eras where The Point was pushing people to the pay-per-views. or the point of pushing people to the show and the pay-per-views were just sort of hanging out there and maybe pushing you to monday night because and a lot of that had to do with who they were whoever they were in hock to the most you know it's just like
usa gives him a shit ton of money it's like okay we'll make raw really matter you know and then it's like oh no we're just trying to make straight cash dollars let's talk about pay-per-view sales let's like let's let's push everybody the big pay-per-views now we're in this weird world where like
everything sort of exists on its own terms, right? And the pay-per-view is just sort of... The PLEs at this point are sort of a... almost like the coliseum home videos vhs tapes used to get as a kid it's just like you get like one tapes worth of good stuff that matters you know but but there's so much more vibrant stuff going on on this not more vibrant there's more and vibrant stuff going on on Raw, going on on SmackDown.
And I think it's really cool. You know, it's like at some point you got to be like, man, these SmackDown tag teams deserve a pay-per-view. They deserve the spotlight. But also at the same time, you got to say like, no, we're trying to redefine what the spotlight means. You know, if you can put... Nia Jax versus Jane Cargill in such a huge spot on SmackDown.
If you can put these tag team matches in such a huge spot on SmackDown, well, that, you know, what you're projecting is that SmackDown matters, you know? And... I don't know, man. I mean, it's kind of invigorating. Also, I'm always happy to not have to spend six, seven hours on a Saturday watching a PLA.
At some point, you get exhausted. Talk about diminishing returns. What do you think? Do you like the five-match structure? Do you like what they're doing with the other shows to make them matter in different ways? It depends on the show. It depends on... The quality of each show. You can make a five match pay-per-view really matter. and you could also make a five match pay-per-view just kind of be a show and and nothing really changes right i think people tend to judge if a show is good or not
off of like, oh, what happened? Like, was there a heel turn? Was there a debut? Was there a title change? Was there... Well, you said what matters. Like, what from this show happened that mattered? like i'm not talking about matter i'm not i'm not questioning it i'm saying let's run it down things that mattered in a way that like not like change the course that makes you want to watch raw or smackdown right so the cena r true thing matters right
Jeff Cobb debut. Jeff Cobb debut as a new member of the solo bloodline that matters. Um, I think Lyra retaining matters. Yeah, I think that match in general propels you forward. What a good match. Gunther McAfee? As much as I enjoyed it, I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme of things. I'm a little bit perplexed by the whole thing. I think it's a cool thing for... I mean...
Listen, I like McAfee as a wrestler. I liked him in NXT. I think it's a cool thing to have in your back pocket. And maybe this is part of just, you know, testing the waters or keeping them fresh so you can pull this out again at WrestleMania next year or something. You know, like there's... Whatever. And I get the idea of getting Gunther away from the main event picture and giving him something sort of... Side quest. Yeah, like a legit side quest.
But, I mean, I am hard-pressed to really find any great internal logic for the actual execution of it. I thought Pat looked good.
This is his first match without his shirt on. I think it was. And he looked like a million bucks out there. Well, a million regular guy bucks. I was about to say, like... a million bucks as in we spent a million bucks on this ground turkey that we're gonna make and cook on the grill or something turn it to a lasagna you know like that's good as as far as Here's the thing, Pat has this He exists in his unique space where he's a regular Joe.
with a super irregular life and irregular talents, you know? Yeah, that's a good way to put it, yeah. Even the way he got into the NFL wasn't your typical, like, yeah, I played football my whole life and da-da-da-da-da. If I remember correctly, I think he won. I think he won a football scholarship or something in high school or something.
i think he took that money to gamble i forgot that was some wild story but he's this regular dude who has an incredible gift for kicking and talking and um It seemed to me that the entire point of this match was To show how much he loves wrestling. Like how much he loves. Correct. And even Gunther wouldn't go as far as shake his hand. Now, there's a show of mutual respect. But he gave him a little, like, our brother, you hung in there, you know? He had a little hat tip and went on his merry way.
And I got to tell you, if I was up $100 million, I wouldn't be taking chops from Gunther ever. You know what I mean? So just say what you want about the quality of the match, whether it deserves to be on the pay-per-view or anything like that. That's a dude who probably as we're speaking right now is talking to like half the sports watching world
With his chest probably feeling like an EDM beat. Just thumping right now. From all the punishment he taught. From all the shit that... I saw some people say that McAfee... despite getting just absolutely demolished, looked too good, that he put up too much of a fight against someone who's supposed to be a world-beater like Gunther. What's your read on that?
i'm not i'm not i don't definitely i wouldn't go that far right like i think you had to give something because yeah he gave it but like gunther brushed almost all of his offense off like it's not like i don't understand like if you know mcafee had him like you know dead to a to the ghost three count where like the rough bump was knocked and it was like oh my god he had this match won and then uh like at no point did pat had this match won like there were moments of of of hope
There was comeback moments. There was lots of things that happened. But at no point during this match did McAfee ever have the upper hand. Like, even when he got momentum. he was almost always immediately get chopped down so like i don't mind that he got some offensive because at the end of the day he's a pro athlete like throw some balls throw some hands throw some fists like show your agility
And that's great. But at the end of the day, I don't think Gunther looks any less than because McAfee got some offense on him. Like, he shut down every single attempt with either a powerbomb or a chopper. Yeah. And I was looking for that. I agree with you. You make Mac if you look any, I mean, any worse, but like if you make.
If you make McAfee look more ineffectual than he did, then it's just a boring-ass match. Like, what's that like? I mean, maybe that goes back to the basic principle of it. Like, why are we having... But I thought once you're having it, that was booked. I appreciate the way that they constructed it. Yeah, well, whatever. But I guess going back to our original question.
Does that make you want to watch more? I mean, I do. It does make me want to see what's next, but I guess the concern is that next might just be, well, good job, Pat. You really showed something out there. Now Gunther's going to feud with Ludwig Kaiser. You know, we don't... The fear is that there's not going to be much that comes out of this.
except for like Pat making jokes about it and Michael Cole, you know, being smart, being like, like thanking him for defending the honor of journalism or whatever out there. Michael Cole kind of cheated. I'm surprised he didn't eat one of them chops too. You know, he almost pulled a Bobby to bring in on Gunther and cost him a big match. So I don't know, man. I don't know what's next for him.
I've always had this fantasy of a Gunther Roman Reigns feud, but I still think we're a little far away from that. But I don't know where Gunther kind of goes from here. You know, like, he did still tap out at WrestleMania. Fans are still going to chant that. I'm sure he's probably going to run a running back with J after Saturday Night's main event. But there's lots of possibilities there. And maybe, you know, if I was a betting man, I put him in there with CM Punk.
right now. Punk talked about John Cena being champion for now. I was going to let you finish before I said that, but after the John Cena win, CM Punk... threw out an Instagram post of him saying, of the screenshot of John Cena being announced the champion, and he just captioned it for now. Yeah, I can see that, but I can also see, you know, the R-Truth of it all sort of being the roadblock before we get there. Like, I don't think CM Punk's going to go straight for Cena. Now?
I know Punk is probably going to be occupied with the Rollins crew. and that stuff does seem like that's really what matters to him yes yeah it does so i don't know maybe maybe you don't get punk gunther but i am really interested to see why they put gunther after this because you know he's been a champion 80 of his time here in the comp and in wwe
So, the side quest that he's probably going to be on for now, because I don't think you're in the back with Jay so quickly, and I don't think you... you know have him show up against john cena yet but eventually you're gonna you could you could do like a gunter You know, Gunther could get in Logan Paul's way as Logan Paul thinks that he should be the next champion. You know, you could do a little heel versus heel thing over there. I don't know. I mean, there are a lot of things you could do.
It's interesting, though, that we kind of have this side question nowhere specifically to go. It would also be interesting to put Gunther in the sort of Seth Rollins' CM Punk storyline as just like a third party. Just a sort of irritant. But I do think that just getting him involved in another feud could actually bring some intrigue.
But yeah, it'll be... Listen, I'm interested to see where we go from here. As said, I'm not sure that this match really helped me raise my interest except in just the sheer fact of its existence any more than it had been. Wait, was that all the matches? Did we cover everything from the show? Yeah, we had that. We had the Women's International Championship match at the Fatal 4 US title match.
jeff cobb debuting well you want to talk a little about oh yeah i guess oh no we didn't talk about dominic and pinta i mean that was sort of that was a fun match sort of by the numbers all things concerned i mean all things considered um i don't know what was your what was your take on that match Dominic Mysterio. Super duper sorry. It needs to be the main event at WrestleMania 43. You are crazy.
He needs to be, is it 43 next year? 42? 42. 42? Domester needs to be the main event at WrestleMania 42. That's nuts. He is so genuinely over. He's the most genuinely over person in the company, I believe. I think the people who love him, love him sincerely. I think the people who hate him, hate him sincerely. And I think there's no person on the entire WWE roster that has a bigger hold on their character than Don Mysterio. We can attest to that. You can understand...
And all the interviews we've done with him, there's never been a moment where he was just like, all right, guys, I'm going to do, I'm going to, I'm going to work him a little bit here. You know? He's him. Just fully in character. I do this. You know, all the interviews I've taught them.
about over the years. He always mentions how he's really a 21-year veteran or something like that. He always puts a wild number out there to correlate with the custody on a pole match and whatnot. But when you really think about it... It's during this time that you truly understand how much of a student of the game he is. He's more than a student of the game. In many ways, he's more experienced than damn near the entire roster in WWE. And it's showing now. It's like...
We know this dude is not going to win any Intercontinental Championship matches against any party that we like. Fairly and he's still gonna get shared. There's only a handful of people that have pulled that off And, you know, he's, he, he is.
Eddie Guerrero reincarnated like down to the mullet down to like legitimately down to being a ladies man like once that moment happens where when dominic breaks away from the judgment day and he shows how much heart he has like like he could The five minutes he wrestled babyface at the end of
Wrestlemania for that Intercontinental Championship match. I'm like he's going to be the main event next year and there's no question in my mind do you he's going to be can we talk about that you said once he breaks free of judgment day it seemed like the whole just judgment day just like worn out conversation which has been ongoing forever He's not going to need somebody to field with. And I think this is, I think obviously he's going to have to, you know, that's.
That's a Judgment Day graduation. You gotta feel it with Judgment Day before you can actually move on. Well, that's what I was going to say. I mean, it feels like that conversation sort of quieted down after WrestleMania just because now we're just excited to talk about him, talk about Dom. We're in the Dom era of Judgment Day. But, I mean, he's got a feud with Finn at some point, right? I mean, you can't even ask, though, how long they're going to be able to drag it out because
They've dragged it out way longer than you would have ever guessed already. It's kind of the not-believe-it-when-I-see-it territory. Am I crazy? When do you think they're actually going to pull the trigger on it? Before the end of this year, I still say, you know, you get Liv back in the summertime when she's done with the movie. You finally push the button on this Finn thing, you know what I mean? And I mean, gosh, she's such a great heel, but everybody knows. Everybody knows.
A great heel is just somebody the crowd is just waiting to cheer. And once they get that dude or reason to be cheered. to the freaking moon and the beautiful thing about Dom is in the same way of Eddie Guerrero he won't have to change a thing he can still cheat He could still, you know, be sarcastic. Yeah, he could still be sarcastic as hell. He could still do all these things.
He's a natural man. I want this all without talking about Penta. Penta's awesome. Penta's the coolest wrestler ever made It's like somebody went to a lab and it was like let's just take all the cool things about professional wrestling and just put it into one guy like let's get like let's get like the scott hall swag with like ray mysterio ultimo dragon gear and the coolest moves on the planet
Oh, yeah, are we gonna give this dude the illest pyro and the illest entrance in the entire company? And you got Penta, the coolest wrestler on the planet. So that being said. Those two guys put on a hell of a match. And it wasn't exactly how I thought it was going to be. Still protecting Penta, still made Penta look like a badass. And Dom went by cheating. Everybody wins. Yeah, well, that's true. I mean, I enjoyed the match a great deal.
Why do you think this one made the cut for Backlash, just because Dom was so over at WrestleMania? Well, they're both over. No, no, I know, I know, but there's a lot of people, even on Penta's level, that didn't make the cut for this show. well you probably needed to get another title match in there you know so that's that's the That's the burden of being champ. You got to work these matches and you don't really need a huge build up for it. You're the champ. I want to be the champ. Let's fight.
Um... It started and started before WrestleMania Yes, absolutely. I'm not saying it was forced. I guess my point is if you're... why have this match? And I guess my answer is, should we be, I mean, now is when they're going to break up the judgment day might be an answer. Like, let's put that back on the front burner and make sure everybody remembers.
even on the biggest show but i don't know man i thought i really enjoyed that um the u.s title match was great uh i think my predictions were completely wrong for it but that being said i guess i didn't expect them to just totally take just to do it too intense. I was trying to explain to my six-year-old what every man for himself means before this match. It took him a little while. He's just learned the concept of teams, and now he's trying to figure this out. But basically, this was...
it was every man for himself for sure, but it was basically just two one-on-one matches combined at a certain point, right? I mean, it was like we had this, uh i mean drew versus priest on one side yeah drew versus priest was the real backlash that was going on on this this was your wrestlemania backlash right i mean it was That feud was continuing. Drew took a scary bump. It's apparently okay. And the big, I mean, in LA Night, I thought it looked great.
That's another continuation, obviously. He's the previous US title holder. The big shocking moment of this match was, like you mentioned, the debut of Jeff Cobb in WWE as another member of the... ah the new bloodline Or Bloodline 2, 2, 2, 2 Blood, 2 Furious. Yeah, exactly. I mean, listen, I was saying before we started. Bloodline Tokyo Drift. Yeah. I was saying before we started.
I'm glad that I weirdly, I'm glad that we're back in the blood, like shocking new bloodline member, every PLA period, because, uh, you know, that sort of. that I kind of missed that as much as it was getting kind of obvious at a certain point. I love, I like Jeff Cobb in this role. I think I've always been sort of, I mean, I like Jeff Cobb. I've seen Jeff Cobb wrestle live any number of times. I mean, he's a great wrestler. I kind of thought he would... I never thought he would...
Even after seeing him in AEW, I was just sort of not convinced he would ever make it up to WWE or even a full-time in AEW. You know, he's like a... I thought maybe he had been market corrected a little bit, to be totally honest. Like, like there's just,
The first time that we saw Jeff Cobb, we were all blown away. And now there's just kind of been, you know, in the time that he's been working in Japan, there have been a lot of other kind of Jeff Cobb types that have come and kind of taken his spot. That's what I thought. And you know what's funny? Jacob Fatu was the Jeff Cobb type. Yeah, Jacob Fatu was one of those guys, yeah. But we thought he would never be in WWE. So I think the fact that he got there before Jeff.
made it be like like him Bronson Reed like these like a hybrid huge guys who just can do everything like it does think that does sort of Temper my excitement a little bit for Jeff Cobb's debut But at the same time, I think my excitement is tempered for almost A lot of these. wrestling free agency now, right? I think we're at the point of wrestling free agency where, you know, CM Punk, Adam Cole, Cody Rhodes, Daniel Bryan, Jade Cargill.
That was like the summer of 2010. I know we're beating it in the death of NBA terms. Yeah, I know we're beating it in the death of NBA terms today, but it's the ringer.
There's like, that was like the summer of 2010, the free agency. Like LeBron's a free agent, Wade's a free agent, all this other stuff. Now, you know, we're going to have some free agency periods that aren't as... sexy as those eras so it's like when somebody new pops up from somebody from a show or promotion that you've seen before there's excitement for sure but it's all always going to be placed on the scale of
Not everyone can be Cody Rhodes, right? That is not everyone can be Cody Rhodes and CM Punk. Like those are the, oh my God, the entire company will change. because of these. Well, and comedy has an incredible career, incredible track record. I mean, it's just so much fun to watch. Right.
It didn't even come with, like, the, you know, I think to a lot of fans, it would have had, like, you know, even the Girls at Destiny came with a little bit more hype because they had that whole, they had the bullet club on their resume, you know? They kind of got that casual fan cachet. And, you know, Cobb doesn't come with that. That said...
Of all of the potential uses of Cobb, I'm glad they're just throwing him right on the main roster. I'm glad that they're going to really give him a chance to go because... He can go out there on Friday night and put on a banger and make you understand who Jeff Cobb is and why we should care. I have every confidence that that's exactly what they'll do. it's like yeah he's definitely he definitely
I'd say WWE has done an intentional job of trying to bolster their mid-card as of late. Oh, for sure. Yeah, good call. Rusev, Phoenix, Black. Cobb. Not just that, but having Drew McIntyre and Damien Priest competing for the U.S. title. It's definitely a deliberate move. It's not just bolstering the mid-card, it's kind of redefining the secondary title scene. And redefining weekly TV, right? Like you said about SmackDown and Raw being like,
you know, SmackDown really being a tag team titles TV show, you know, you're not going to get Cena every week, guys. You're probably not going to get Cena defending any titles on free TV. so you're gonna need some fun guys in there to be excited about for the WWUS title. You're going to need some folks to be really excited about the tag team titles and even the Intercontinental titles.
I think it's a deliberate attempt to make the mid-card matter a lot more. And even if they're not fighting for titles, like, you know, if you're telling me Jeff Cobb and Sheamus are about to fight, I'm like, yeah.
Let's watch that. If you tell me Jeff Cobb and Bronson Reed or Drew McIntyre or Damian Priest, I'm like, yeah, this is going to be a banger. But... I will say, yeah, it's definitely... a lot of diminishing returns when it comes to folks jumping from company to company it's like there's initial excitement and then it's like all right another it's
It's signing James Jones, man. Like, it's not signing LeBron James. Like, you got a nice corner three-point shooter. Jeff Cobb is not a James Jones. You take that back. He's a nice corner three-point shooter. No. Which every team needs. Which still is a lot of points. Three points is a lot of points. But am I clearing out? Am I giving Jeff Cobb the ball at the top of the key and say, yo, take us to the promised land? No, Jeff Cobb is like a dream on.
He's like, when Draymond is the most talented guy, the most valuable guy we've seen, how valuable he is in the Warriors, but if he's a free agent... And with his age, with his, you're not sure how he's going to mesh with any other team the way he did with the Warriors. It's like, is he a $10 million guy or is he a $30 million guy? I honestly don't know the answer. Yeah, he's definitely... He is a superstar. He is an all-star situational player. He's an all-star situational player. That's it.
He has a potential to be really freaking elite. I mean, listen. We all knew how good Jacob Fartu was, at least to some extent, but we weren't expecting a level of explosion. You know, just the way that he got over, I don't think we can really predict these things even as much as we think we know. I don't think people thought Pencil would be as popular. I mean, Pencil was already pretty popular, but that dude is.
Yeah. No, no, you're absolutely right. The level? No, no, no. I do think there's an interesting thing where it's like when they refer to him as the top free agent on the market or whatever.
Are we just going to do a thing where we refer to people as hot free agents only when... word of their signing is already out it's like everybody like there there were news reports that his new japan deal was up and so we're just going to call him a free agent otherwise it would be like oh my god where did they find this guy you know um but i do like them addressing the real sports i like them yeah i like them doing You know, addressing the free agency rather than, oh my god, who's this person?
who are we gonna find out raw like dude people watching i like that they're using his real name i like it and everything but it does put a little bit of a it does like you know make it a little bit more difficult to do the shocking debut and then who is this guy because you can't make it be a mystery and then have them show up on SmackDown next week. They're like, finally the mystery man. They're like, this is my new, the new acquisition for the bloodline, Jeff.
The big mystery is that his name is Jeff. Not Jeff. That's Googleable. They could have found that. Yeah. I'm excited for the Jeff Cobb thing. I'm excited, frankly, because of Pinta because of Jacob Fatu because of the way the WWE is found to make giant stars out of these people who you know they could have
it could have gone another way in another era is all I'm saying. This is the era where WWE is finally like making hay of the shirt things that we thought, you know, the things that seem, there's a lot of things that seem like shirt things. In the olden days, it did not add up to being sure things, if you know what I mean. And yeah, I'm excited for this one. Do you want to talk a little bit about SmackDown?
yeah let's talk about it charlotte flair crashed out she's leaning into it leaning into the bit now wwe finally leaning into this thing and charlotte flair as well What do you think? What was your takeaway from that segment? Well, she's doing exactly what I said in our interview, by the way. Yes, that's correct. And I was just like, hey, I know this is... a little personal but like once you put on sherry shepard like clearly
you're happy that it got here because you can now use this right and uh you know uh she played it and she's the ever ever the pro charlotte is she played it close to the best but Yes, they're definitely using the crowd's reactions and her own reactions. Now is the storyline. But I think what's more interesting is Alexa Bliss.
and charlotte flair saying they have to talk do you think that we think the elect is is the wyatt six thing just done i mean there are all these rumors that it was that that's that was the hold up that's why alexa wasn't on tv because they were going to bring her in as part of the wyatt six and then And then Bo got hurt and like whatever, like, is that what we're seeing here? Like, are they just taking a new direction with her? I hope so then.
You hope so. I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. I was always a little bit weird on the Wyatt Six of it all, to be honest, anyway. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I get it. Bray Wyatt's a brilliant mind and they want to keep his spirit alive and obviously keep everything they put together with him.
sacred but the alexa part of it always just seemed a little bit on the nose to me like i like she i don't know and that was not my favorite era of either of them bray and alexa it didn't seem like it was so intrinsic to alexa's character even though i mean obviously it was taken taken i mean she was spun off of that but you can be spooky without being like part of the bray wyatt mythos you know like you can i mean i could i could see i could i could see
you know, Alexa sort of like taking the Bray Wyatt mantle and using all those mind games and, you know, looking into the person's psyche as a storyline. using it in the women's division, you know, I can definitely see Charlotte being the first person to kind of be in that boat where, you know, Alexa Bliss sort of psychoanalyzes her and you know that turns into a feud uh but i also wouldn't mind if like
Alexa just kind of went back to being Alexa and like this glam girl with Charlotte. And you know, what if Charlotte just pulls you to the side like, yeah. What's all this? What's all this spooky stuff? This ain't true. And then just gets her back together and then just when Alexa thinks, you know, well Charlotte thinks she's got Alexa under her thumb and then and then only
You bring out the spookiness and be like, ha ha, you thought you had me. And then you can bring back the Wyatt Six and make that one. Yeah. But I think if you just go straight to Spooky, which I think is why they've sort of held off on her return. I don't know, man. Like, Wyatt Six had their moments. They've had some moments. Injuries suck. Man, I hate talking about this because I feel like you're kind of disrespecting Bray a little bit.
But what's the issue with the Wyatt Six is the same issue I sort of had with Bray where it's like It's hard to book Supernatural Unless you're an imposing guy like The Undertaker and you're committed to having this guy lose rarely. You know what I mean? Lot of times it's just it's just gonna not it's not gonna work as well as one would hope it to yeah, because there's no commitment to Like they committed to the undertaker being the supernatural character and yes that worked but
it worked more because the dude almost never lost, right? And that's, you know, and the moment The Fiend lost to Goldberg and lost to... Braun Strowman or lost to Roman Reigns. Also people like it was just a knockdown. Like we just come knocking this thing down a pet. And it just doesn't make a whole lot of storyline sense where, you know, in storyline, these guys have mystical powers and they could like hop in your dream.
take over sound systems and scare the shit out of you, but they can't be like an inside cradle. A lot of that stuff is strange sometimes, you know? So I don't know. It's hard to book the wife. yeah well we'll see when and if that comes back it does seem like it was it was such a it was so great when it happened um But yeah, I don't even know. I'm not going to go into my... My Wyatt Sex monologue here. Fraction, we had a shock win against the Street Profits. Nia Jax and Jade Cargill had...
the best match for either of them that I can remember. I mean, that match was a lot of fun. I've been saying this for weeks, man. I've been saying this for weeks. Jay Cargill, the time off has really helped her. She's gotten really crisp in that ring, man. and the microphone scales are coming along a little bit like yeah
The game's starting to slow down for Jade Cargo. I think this is my 20th basketball reference I put in today's episode. But the game is definitely starting to slow down for Jade Cargo. Definitely a great... A very good showing with her and Nia Jax last Friday. Aleister Black beat Carmelo Hayes. Aleister Black's looking really good. There was a promo package where he said he wasn't going to talk in riddles anymore, which is wonderful to hear. Great! I like how Carmelo didn't even take...
the finisher. It was Miz who somehow came in and took the finisher after the pin. That was really well choreographed. Los Garza lost to Andrade and Ray Phoenix. That was kind of a turn or maybe the beginnings of a turn also. Yeah. Yeah. Berto walked out. I don't know. Birdo, love him. He's a great wrestler. Remember his heyday during the Heyman running Raw era where they just booked him into being a big young star and then we just sort of forgot about it?
I think she's with Zelina too, right? It's like Zelina and Orton. Yeah.
third generation stars and burles and that weird um you know shout out to sean michaels and and and diesel like the growing his hair out phase where he's like just sort of always post-match looks like a teenage boy with that haircut um but he's he's great and i can't wait to see i mean i don't know i mean those are two those cars all these guys were up on stage um when they announced the triple a takeover wrestlemania weekend so it's It'll be interesting to see how much spotlight this crew gets.
And if it's people they specifically have identified as potential stars that they're going to use in Mexico, it's just something to keep an eye on. But yeah, I mean, that's the SmackDown run. Now, to me, the Charlotte thing was the big thing. The leaning into it. The actual, like, crashing out. Um... If there's any degree of realism to this, and I feel like there must be, I think that we've come to that justifiable conclusion. It's a sort of dangerous line to walk.
Pro wrestling is always best when it's like playing around with reality and sort of walking that fine line and blah, blah, blah. Am I overthinking this? Not really, what? If Charlotte Flair really is this person that's crashing out sometimes in the ring... Is it a little bit dangerous to make this the gimmick? Aren't we just sort of like tempting disaster here? I love it as a commentator and a viewer. It makes me a little bit worried. There's definitely a little bit of worry, but...
Maybe we're just being worked bro. yeah maybe we are maybe she's been working us this whole time yeah maybe charlotte really isn't that emotionally broken that everybody expected her to be yeah after this match and divorce and all this type of stuff like man she's kicking it with a rod courtside at the conference finals man like i think she's i think she's a little happier than than she's given off to us low brown wrestling fans maybe so maybe so okay well
That is what I said at the interview. I was like, hey. I am enjoying this. Use this. Yeah. I am enjoying the potential here.
I would say I'm slightly more than Becky Lynch-Helter. Now, like, Becky is making a lot more hay with what she's doing. I mean, it's a lot. Her match against Lyra, her feud with Lyra has been absolutely great. But Becky's doing, like, cartoon heel, right? Becky's playing, like... like how you or i would play heel if given the opportunity you know it's just like oh i get to go be a bad guy in front of fans like this is gonna be great man they're gonna i'm gonna yell at all them you know um
but it is crummy town yeah i'm a bigger deal than all of you i i've said it before the greatest my my favorite um uh cheap heat of all time the least over number one contender in the history of WWE, Mabel, when he was feuding with Diesel. And he went out and he started like running, like he was trying all the cheap heat in the world. The crowd just wasn't saying a single thing. And then he goes, I'm going to be the first black champion. And the whole crowd.
There we go. Got him. We got him, folks. Mabel vs. Diesel. We gotta do the rewatch of Mabel vs. Diesel. I would love that. Which is an all-time thing. Anyway. Speaking of all-time bad things, we have to end the show. Oh, sucks. It's all good, though. There wasn't any other news that we're forgetting here, right? No, we're all good. I don't think so. No.
All right. You want to get your plugs in on the way out? Yeah. New episode of 7 p.m. in Brooklyn is out with J.R. Smith. Check that out when you get a chance. Great episode there. Great episode. Yeah, that's it, man. Say less to Kazo, Ken and Rosie. Catch me on my YouTube page, youtube.com. And we're here at the Masked Man Show, folks. it you can find me here you can find me on the press box um we have some exciting things coming up on this We'll be back in Thursday.
Another episode of the Masked Mansion. or two. Thanks to our producer. waters. Thanks to our EP, Ben Cruz. Thank you you back here on Thursday here