John Cena’s Heel Turn Is Picking Up Steam. Plus, Evaluating Today’s Tag Team Wrestling Scene. | The Masked Man Show

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Cold open question of the week, Kaz. What up, shoes? Happy Father's Day to you and to Brian H. Waters. Happy Father's Day to you, bro. And to all the fathers listening to this show. My question for you is this. In kayfabe, which of these men... is the worst father. All right. Paul Bearer. Okay. Rey Mysterio. Okay. Ric Flair. In kayfabe. In kayfabe, okay. Stu Hart. I think his only real knock there is throwing in the towel, but that was a pretty big deal, right? Okay. And...

Should I throw in the Sandman? No, let's just stick with those. Let's just stick with those guys. Yeah, let's not get too dark. All right, so I guess we got to go with the most egregious. fatherly moment of everybody you named. And it's gotta be Paul Bearer, right? Yeah, Ric Flair, I think, was Ric Flair's worst... I mean, he did a lot of stuff on screen, even in kayfabe, you know, inviting the ladies to the bar after the show. It's bad fathering.

when he's married or has kids. Kids were probably in the crowd. But the Lacey Evans storyline was the real storyline. knock on his fathering, on his parenting skills. Gotcha. Okay. I was wondering how deep we could go through that rabbit hole for sure. I mean, you could really, you could get, I mean, listen, he's done a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff on screen.

Rey Mysterio, I mean, kind of a deadbeat, you know. Well, he, you know. Raised a jailbird. Did raise a jailbird. Yes. That is pretty, that's pretty rough. I mean, it's kind of overlooked that despite, I mean, this is like. Dom's gimmick now. But Ray was really more concerned about winning than about fathering for a while. That was how this whole thing broke out. There is some questionable parenting going on. But still, all things considered, Paul Bearer means...

One of your kids burns in the fire after... banging the mom. And he convinced his son that his brother tried to set him on fire. It was the Undertaker's fault. Yeah, it's got to go with Paul Barrett. Yeah, he's a lousy father for sure. It's definitely top of the list, but I mean, hey. If you want to come up and he might be, you know, if that balances it out, then Ray Mysterio might be the worst one. Ric Flair's at least gotten like, you know, kicked in the balls enough times, but I don't think.

were cased in cement. That's top tier right there. That is. Okay, Paul Bearer, rest in peace. Rest in peace, buddy. This week's official worst father on the Masked Man Show. Let's start the show. Welcome to the Masked Man Show with Kaz. How you doing buddy? Doing good, shoes. I know you can't see it if you're recording it, but while we were setting up our podcast today, one of Brian's lovely championship belts fell off the wall.

and in solidarity for him so he wouldn't have to look crazy with just three belts on there. I was like, you know what? This is why I keep my belt nice and close to me and not hung up behind me like a trophy. So if you see me fiddling with the microphone. during the podcast is because I've chosen to wear this belt Fatou style around my neck. That kind of maybe covers my face a little bit, but I will wear it Fatou style as long as it doesn't annoy me.

Former Fatu. Ex-Fatu style. Ex-Fatu style. There's no Fatu's holding belts right now. Jacob Fatu. I thought you meant like Uso Fatu. Oh, no, I wasn't even thinking of the Uses, but I guess they've been doing it before Jacob, right? I was trying to be current with the kids they're listening to today. Yeah, that's good. Sorry about that. My mistake. We'll toss that to Jacob.

I don't even have a belt. That's not true. The kids have a couple of the real cheapo ones. Not the quality that you two are showing off there. Well, these are... Nobody's touching Brian's collection right there. That is... That is some quality craftsmanship over there with those title belts. Yeah, yeah.

Happy Father's Day weekend, man. There was just for the record after the question, there are a lot worse fathers, even in Kayfabe. We left some of the more controversial ones off the list because, wow, that would just derail the whole episode. And I'm not going to go into it in any greater depth right now. And Brian's just nodding with a smile on his face, nodding knowingly. Yeah, that's the great thing about pro wrestling is...

No matter how bad you feel about yourself as a father, you can always throw on the pro wrestling and be like, I'm not as bad as that guy. Not as bad as that guy. Kayfabe or real life. The real life rankings are a totally different story. Anyway. Welcome to a new week of pro wrestling. I'm so tired. I don't even know what day it is. You guys have good father's days, by the way. It was great. You get fathered up appropriately. All right. Oh, yeah.

I was fathered and lathered. It was great. Let's talk pro wrestling. What is the biggest news of the day? I have so many notes from SmackDown. There's a couple of things that are off. Let me... Let me go to some news. Okay, let's talk some news. It's been widely reported, or at least reported and widely aggregated, that the reason that Gunther defeated Jey Uso for the title last week on Monday Night Raw.

was that Triple H had made the decision that Gunther versus Goldberg at Saturday night's main event, which is apparently 100% happening, needed to be for the world title. One, do you buy that? And two, was that the right decision? Yes and yeah. You know me, man. I'm a Goldberg fan. I don't know what it is. You're the biggest Goldberg fan. I think everyone's allowed to have...

one of these guys that you just stand over for no apparent reason through thick and thin. Just unapologetically be a fan for it. I think for me... Goldberg was that guy for some reason. I don't know. He's just one of those dudes. I'm just like, yo, he's on my TV. Whether he's Oldberg, whether he's young, crazy Goldberg with the undefeated streak, whether it was the rivalry of Brock Lesnar.

Sometimes I love me a good car crash, and nobody did a better car crash than Goldberg. So if you're going to get him for one last car crash, why not put the title on the line? Why not? Have it be against a guy like Gunther who, you know, storyline-wise, it would make sense why he would take the match because of all the crap that was talked about him during the Bret Hart stuff and everything like that. But, you know.

Yeah, like, let Jay chill for a minute. Let Jay chill for a minute. Like, let Jay be on the outside looking in on this one. And... I know a lot of people aren't going to agree with me. I want to put that out there also. I know a lot of people do not agree with a lot of my Goldberg takes. Yeah. Good that you're self-aware, at least. I still... love the spectacle of Goldberg, even if the match is terrible. In fact...

Even when the match is terrible, I enjoy Goldberg. I think some of those Crown Jewel and Saudi matches that were just absolute train wrecks, I got to tell you, I laughed. harder than most people have ever laughed at wrestling matches, even at the bad Goldberg ones. Yeah, it is easy to laugh at Goldberg and not feel like you're totally chitting on the performance of the character. It's just like, you can just get a good hearty chuckle out of it.

Doug, how hard did you laugh when Goldberg came back and like flattened Brock Lesnar in like a minute? How hard did you laugh? How enjoyable and inconceivable did you just sit there and just like, just stare at your laptop or your screen for as long as you did and just laugh? Because it's like, why the hell not? Why the hell not? And sometimes if you're a wrestling fan, you want to go and watch the old guys play the hits.

That's almost exclusively a lot of wrestling fans' relationship right now. Sometimes I want to see the old guys play the hits. And a Goldberg world title match with Gunther, who is damn near incapable of having a bad match. I'm with it. There's worse things happening. Okay, that's what I wanted to get to next. Gunther doesn't have a bad match, right? Who in Gunther's WWE career...

I'm going to Brian H. Waters on this one. Gunther's WWE career, who has he had? Who, when you saw the match on paper, were you like, Gunther's going to have to carry this guy the most? Honestly, Damian Priest. Damn.

And it's no disrespect to Priest, but for the answer to this question, I think about people like dragging off Sami Zayn, Jey Uso. It's Damien Priest who's the one that just... kind of sticks out like oh yeah he gonna have to who had to make this work like when we was in at summer slam and we saw all the legends come out there and watch that match for the world title it felt like they were watching gunther not watching damien priest versus gunther

I can see what you're saying on that point. I take exception to that. I think off the top, and I'm only thinking of the big matches here.

braun breaker feud in nxt that might have been his that might have been his hardest work i mean braun is braun is really good but like braun is really freaking green at that point comparatively speaking compared to damian priest for sure braun has the high notes that he can hit um i don't know i mean there has to be somebody there has to be somebody we're not thinking of that's more of a lift right

I think we all want to say J. I think we want to say J because, like, you know... It might be J. It sounds disrespectful to say J because he almost sounds like... You're saying he's not a good wrestler. I just think the answer is Jay in this particular question because he still had a lot to prove as a main event solo champion. And there's like no bigger test than like...

Gunther. You know what I mean? It's not like he's whack. It's just that even his run as the Intercontinental Champion was so short that you never really got to see him truly be like... The hunted, you know what I mean? I'm not disrespecting Jay by saying that. I'm just saying in the terms of that question where it's like, this is going to have to be a lot of work for Gunther.

I mean, in truth, Gunther has probably more matches where the degree of difficulty is more about elevating the guy he's in the ring with. Right? Think about the, you know... I mean, listen, I'm not going to say Tyler Bate wasn't over as hell in NXT UK or whatever, or like Chad Gable when they were wrestling in WWE, but the real difficulty there was making you care about the opponent, making it feel like a big-time match, and Gunther's always been excellent at that.

I don't think that's going to be the problem going against Goldberg. I mean, there will be some element of this guy. Why is Goldberg wrestling a match in 2025? But Goldberg might be his... most difficult his most the opponent for with whom he has the most difficult time getting a great match out of them because you know why that is it's because

For the past 30 years, a Goldberg match is a Goldberg match. Yeah. No matter who he's in the ring with. It's a great point. And a Gunther match is a Gunther match. And a Gunther match is a Gunther match, no matter who he's in the ring with. So it's like, whose style is going to win out?

Like, is Gunther going to like stretch Goldberg out for like 15 minutes and then chop him and then do power bombs and do all that type of stuff? Well, I have no doubt that Gunther could get a great match out of Goldberg. I think it really comes down to those, you know.

to whether or not Goldberg's up for it. I mean, he talked about being, you know, how he gets injured when he's training all the time and it's made it really hard. And I have no doubt that that's true. We called it at the moment. We're like, oh, this means he's about to come back. Like he's out there talking about this. That's all you need to know.

And for everything that's been reported, it's supposed to be his final match, too. So I don't know. If you're getting ready to put that match together... How do you diagram it? Is it, hey, let's use the brilliance of Gunther and his ability to make mat wrestling interesting to sort of hide the fact that...

we're not going to bump Goldberg a ton, but it's going to stretch out and it's going to feel long and it's going to be like, oh my God, this is a long, surprisingly long Goldberg match. Or is Goldberg going to come in and just do Goldberg things? What's up? I said presumably Gunther's going to win, right? Yeah, of course. So how do you make Goldberg look good and Goldberg-y without him and still have him lose, I guess? That's the question. Yeah.

I think the brilliance in having Gunther be this opponent is that Gunther could bump like hell for him, one. And two, his thing is... The ring is sacred. His thing is Matt Wrestling. So he can make believable transitions during the match that stretch the match out longer. That may involve just a little bit of rolling on the floor, just mat wrestling, without Goldberg having to really bump. A match that we all assume would be a five-minute Goldberg special.

could really be like a true 10 to 15 minute decent wrestling match. Everybody, listen, whenever, when you're going back, I know you've gone back to the Goldberg tape every month since his, you know, he was last on WWE TV, Kaz. That's for AEW. I think AEW blew it up not having them. But the match that everybody always goes back to when they're watching the old WCW matches is what? It's the William Regal match. Where Regal went and put on a wrestling clinic. He stretched him a little bit.

He tried to, he was, you know, maybe he went a little bit stiff, but he was trying to make Goldberg look like a wrestler. He thought it seemed like he was trying to do his job. Yes. And this could be another one like that, you know? For all we know, that's what Goldberg thinks of as his best match. I mean, I don't know. What do you think Goldberg thinks his best match is?

hogan in the georgia dome i mean is that is that just it was i mean it's impossible to to reach the heights of of that sort of height but i mean you know quietly outside of the regal match I really was a big fan of his match for Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania. Like, that universal title match that they had, like, that was the quintessential...

Bill Goldberg, Brock Lesnar match right there. And it felt good because of the first time they fought at WrestleMania and how panned that was and just sort of like... And you caught yourself watching them like, oh man, these two really give a fuck. They really want to go out there and have a great match. They really want to make up for WrestleMania 20. I love that match so much, yo. Like, if you like a good just balls-to-the-wall, just adrenaline car crash match, Bill Goldberg, Brock Lesnar.

for the Universal title at WrestleMania. That was like everything Jim Ross said in the pre-promo for WrestleMania 20. 13 years later, everything happened in WrestleMania 33 for that match. Like, the way... They're going to have to have the 82nd Airborne. And, you know, I remember getting ready for WrestleMania 20. It's like, yeah, I sat down, locked in, and then they gave me that. But then 33 being there, it was like, oh, this is everything. This is the one I was waiting for. Exactly. So I was.

That's my favorite Goldberg match. All right. So are you going to throw a party for Saturday Night's Main Event? Oh, LaParka. Oh, my fault. I forgot. The LaParka match. Aside from that. Goldberg vs. Leparka where Leparka breaks his leg. By the way, this Saturday night's main event that we're talking about is airing opposite All-In Texas. It's July 12th. This is the counter-programming. And you could only watch one match. Don't do this to me. Hangman versus Mox. Or Goldberg versus Gunther.

You can only watch one. What do you pick? I'm watching Hangman vs. Mox. I'm not taking that bait. All right, Dave? I know what you're trying to do. This is your favorite wrestler, Bill Goldberg. I know what you're trying to do, okay? I... Goldberg and Gunther. It might... Man, whoever gets the small screen, that's going to be the battle of that night. Whatever is on besides...

Go Burgundy. Because I'm sure Sadass Man events are going to put on a damn good show because they want to, you know, go opposite all in. But I'm probably going to pay more attention to all engines because it's not Saturday. Well, it's a weird balancing act for them always because WWE, you know, even now in the era where they're just like shamelessly counter-programming, they don't want to go.

no pun intended all in because then what if they lose you know there's still a chance that you'll i mean i don't even know what the metric would be because when's tv ratings and when's a pay-per-view buy um And what they're interested in is hurting the business numbers, hurting the buy for all that. And so it won't be apparent the next day who the winner or loser was.

But, you know, just like in the NXT versus AEW days, you don't want to lose. You don't want there to be any perception that you lost the worst. So you'll go all in, and then maybe you'll back off a little bit. Who knows? But yeah, that'll be a weird one. Especially for you guys. For, you know, considering your fandom. You know my fandom. You know how I give it up. Yeah. Big shill energy, baby. Just kidding, guys. I think it's going to be big.

I think it'll be fun to have both things going on on one night during the summer. I love competing wrestling shows, man. Like, it's the best. The best part of the Monday Night Wars was flipping from channel to channel. And now you don't got to do that. You can literally just watch both.

you can literally just watch both you can literally enjoy both i know it's a foreign concept for a lot of people but i love that they're going head to head with one another like the more wrestling the better and if it's on at the same time even better because now there is jolted energy knowing that like the counter programming the the the rivals are doing the same thing at the same time like yes it's awesome i love it and you can enjoy them both

And it's July, so there won't be any other big sports competing with it. Like, there might be some baseball games on, but you probably ain't watching no baseball that day. Like, it's a good-ass wrestling night. So, yeah, I will. I'm looking very much forward to enjoying both shows with my two TVs that I can afford because we talk on a podcast about wrestling for a living.

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They're stacking up a lot of stuff for Night of Champions, which is the next big match, right? I mean, the next big card. Yeah, June 28th. So we got... John Cena versus CM Punk. We got the Queen of the Ring and King of the Ring finals. It looks like after SmackDown, we might be lining up another Tiffany Stratton, Nia Jax match.

for that maybe I mean obviously they've been spreading these matches out the big time matches out in different ways but that feels like a that feels like a night of champions match right champions should be a lot of championships should be defended there. A lot of stuff happened on SmackDown, by the way. There's like King of the Ring qualifiers, that little, the Nia Jax bit I just mentioned.

It felt like everything was tying into everything else in a very delicious way. Cena confronted like 15 different rivals. He got beat up by R-Truth at least twice. Like you could... There was a lot of overlap. Yeah. I got a question for you. Is the scene of heel turn starting to turn the corner? I think the scene of heel turn is starting to turn the corner.

Explain, because I have a take that's different than that one. But I want you to get yours up first. Now, I think the fact that Cena has been in back-to-back Raw, SmackDowns... ple's he's there's there's a stat that they said uh john cena's the only uh wwe wrestler who's wrestling every single ple this year right okay and

I really felt on Friday on SmackDown, it finally started to make sense, right? And even if it didn't start to make sense, John Cena did a great job of making it make sense for you. right like he laid out the fact that like you know I'm smarter than all you guys and here's why and even if this wasn't the plan he made it sound like it was you know that's true

I think that's the best thing he could have done to really course correct this whole thing. And right when he's done all that, these variables of R-Truth and CM Punk. Sort of like fall into the rotation now. And this, you know, and the money in the bank briefcase. And Cena's reason.

For thinking that Seth Rollins won't cash in on him, I thought it was really interesting, too. He was basically like, Seth Rollins wants me to leave as champion, so when I'm gone, he's the only one left, right? And we're like, is that true? Who knows? But I think the timing of Punk and Cena, even if it's in two weeks, feels really good because I don't necessarily think it's over after these two weeks.

I think given the back and forth promos that they've had and the history that they have and the R-Truth match happening this Friday, you know? Yeah. Yeah, they announced that for SmackDown. I get the feeling. Yeah, the King of the Ring will challenge, you know, John Cena at SummerSlam or whatever. But something tells me we're going to get like an R-Truth. R-Truth and Punk are going to figure into that match somehow.

Yeah, I think so too. You know what I mean? I kind of feel like that's where they go. I think the original plan was have Cody win a tournament, run back Cody versus Cena at SummerSlam. But I think the arch is variable into all this. It's like, all right, maybe that's not the straight-ahead plan because he's using a date for a SmackDown on a guy who was technically fired a couple weeks back. It kind of makes you wonder, like...

are they going to do this in a triple threat or is he going to be a part of a fatal four way? Like, Oh, you think truth is going to get into the night of champions match or he's going to get, he's not had a straight up title match yet. Like all the matches have just been like fights and just like one-on-one stuff. But it's like, I think if the momentum of the people of the R-Truth, you know, just.

people's champion era that he's in right now, the Ron Killings ever of it right now. Yeah, put some respect on his name, Kaz. Put some respect on his name, Ron Killings. He's got to get a title shot eventually, right? And I think this Friday... is the first time that they legitimately be like, I think R-Truth is going to win Friday. And then if he wins Friday...

what does that mean for knight of champions? What does that mean for the winner of the king of the ring? What does that mean for all this? If the only dude who has been able to pin this guy in a one-on-one match as the champion is R-Truth. Yeah. And I think that's what's going to happen. So for that reason, I think...

The heel turn is starting to like, it's been simmering for a while and now it's like, okay, now it's time to like turn the burners up and I think it's starting to turn the corner a little bit. I agree. with everything you said, my takeaway was not that the heel turn is finally working. I think just anything would be more compelling when somebody is consistently on TV, you know? Okay, okay. There's that.

I mean, I think there is an element where at various times during this run, it's felt like Cena's holding back a little. Like, at first, I mean, again, this is just revisionist history or whatever, but at first, I feel like I was reading into it.

the heel turn came at the wrong time. The heel turn seemed so spur of the moment with The Rock there. And now, you know, I fully believe they were saving it for WrestleMania and they decided to do it earlier. Their initial plan was from the turn heel at WrestleMania. And if that's the case, it's easy to read back into it that...

that Cena was kind of slow walking the first month and a half of his heel turn because he didn't have it all planned out. All of his plans were for post-WrestleMania, right? Right, right, right. And even and if you take that a step further, it's yeah, I mean, it feels like maybe he was.

been slow walking a little bit for when his schedule was going to open up and let him do some back-to-back promos and have nights like Friday, you know? Who knows if any of that's true, but it does feel good to have him on screen at the same time. He got to have... he got to fight with R-Truth attacked him twice. Fight might be the wrong word. And he was in the ring with Punk for the second show in a row after Monday Night Raw.

And then with Cody Rhodes as well. Both of them were sort of coming at him from different angles. But the thing that really struck me was, I think on Monday, Punk said something like, I know what it's like to turn heel. I turned heel. The title made me turn heel too. Not explicitly. You're doing all my best stuff, is what he said. But yeah, but but then on on Friday, he said, you know, you can't see me. No, I see right through you. And I say and I that made me think.

That was the end of it, I think, on Friday. But that really got me going. I was like, should Punk call him out for being a fake heel? Should punk just break the fourth wall again and just be like, we all know that this is a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Like we all know, like you, you just did this whole.

Stephanie's Places. Did you watch Stephanie's Places on ESPN Plus? I watched it this weekend. It's like, you're not a bad guy. You're not this person. You're actually a very good guy. He said something along the lines of... Out of the sliver of respect I still have for you, he was like, don't do this. Like, let us celebrate you. Let us be like, let us just be, just be who we know.

You are. Like, why are you doing this, right? Like, all right, I could kind of see that, but I think it's too soon to go to that well. Which is why I think... Well, they're obviously not doing it yet. So maybe that will be month two. I mean, I don't know. Cena's got how many dates left? Like 17 or something like that? Yeah, I think he's in the teens now. So if you're going by weeks, I mean, that's...

About three. That still takes you up to about, if he's there every week. Yeah. That takes you to about November. You know what I mean? But I'm sure those will be spaced out. They'll space it out a little bit. And they might, you know. that number might not be entirely accurate when it comes down to it because they're still working out that Saturday night's main event date which I think will be his farewell um but

Yeah, I mean, they could... With that many dates left, I mean, this is... I don't know. What is your feeling? Do you think that the initial plan was Cody at SummerSlam? And now it's up in the air just because of truth and everything else. We just don't know. We're just going to listen to what the crowd says.

No, I think they have to keep that variable open. And I think they've shown the ability to keep that variable open for big events recently. And you can't ignore this whole R-Truth thing that you got now. You can't ignore him. He's kind of your most popular act right now in the midst of all these very popular acts.

You never know. I still think Cody and Tina is probably the way to go, especially how this King of the Ring tournament is happening. But who knows? It may not be that. I'll say if it's an opportunity. for Truth or Punk to be into this match. They've shown that fans have at least somewhat of a voice to influence what their plans originally are. If it's Cody Rhodes who wins the King of the Ring, you're saying if...

Punk or Truth works their way into the eventual Cody Rhodes match. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. I could see that because I think two weeks is sort of too soon to burn through all the history you have with CM Punk. And it kind of shows that, you know. Out of the post Cody Rhodes feuds that Cena's had, they're both working, you know, like and Randy is still floating around there somewhere, you know, he's in the king of the ring tournament. Yeah.

That's another person who hasn't really, you know, who might still have a shot at it. So it'll be interesting to see which way they go. It'll be interesting to see which way they go. I still think Cody and Sita at SummerSlam is the move, but maybe it ain't. Yeah, I think I agree. I think at this point you have to just be open to whatever.

I guess for Night of Champions, if the plan is... If the plan is to move to Cody and Cena, I guess I just have a hard time imagining where Punk goes. There's obviously a world in which R-Truth interferes at Night of Champions, and... It's a non-finish. But does Punk just accept that lying down? Like, how do you get... Then what do you do? You do, like, Punk versus R-Truth to get it where they get back? Like, I don't...

What is punk doing when John Cena moves on? Right? There's almost too many moving pieces now, which I love. Which I love. That's what made SmackDown so good, is that it was just like John Cena, who is the most vanilla babyface of all time, now playing some iteration of the most vanilla heel of all time, finally has...

a non, like a two if not three dimensional feud. You know, seeing a king of like the one dimensional feuds when he was champ. You know, it took guys like, you know, Kevin Owens to get another dimension out of him. when that stuff brian danielson when that stuff finally started happening and even that was you know more fanfic than it was like the story they were telling um

he finally has multiple things happening at the same time. He's finally existing in a real world, in the real world, you know? And I think people, everybody, you know, as much as everybody in the, in. In the real world, in reality, as much as everybody was saying, man, I hope to get on John Cena's dance card during his retirement tour, the sort of pro wrestling version of that is like, everybody should want to be the guy who takes the belt off John Cena.

You know, and so it makes sense. Now, R-Truth's got, obviously, a lot of other stuff going on there. Who do you think? You get to pick right now. Who takes the belt off John Cena? I'll give you Punk, R-Truth, Cody Rhodes, or The Field. It should be The Field. It should be The Field. well you think it should be somebody what like new like young and who can actually yeah

Someone who can gain from it sort of thing? Yes, yes. But who is that then? I'm sorry I gave you the field then. I didn't think you were going to go with the field. Nah, I got to go with the field because they're going through all these so soon. They're going through all the big dogs now. You said the big dog. Not the big dog, but I don't know what business is right now, but...

One would assume in John Cena's pro wrestling love and heart that he wants to leave this place better than he entered it. And usually that means you make a guy on the way out, right? Well, historically, yeah, but we've said before, at least I've said before, we're in a different world now. You know, I mean. Would I be crazy? If it's like someone along the lines of Carmelo Hayes or Austin Theory that take the title off of John Cena on some open the door, close the door shit, right? Like...

The way John Cena opened the door in his career, he walked down to the ring, looked at Kurt Angle, said, what makes you think you can do? Blubbity, blubbity, blue. Ruthless aggression. Bong. Holy shit. This guy's... fucking made it. I think you'd be crazy to say Austin Theory right now. Would I be crazy? I mean, what is it? It's like he finally gets his win. Did he win at WrestleMania?

Yeah, he did win at WrestleMania, but I just kind of feel like maybe Austin Theory is a reach, but I really wanted to be somebody brand new. I really wanted to be a first-time title winner. retiring John Cena. That's how it should be. It should be the holy-ish moment of holy-ish moments. You get one chance. You get one chance to... really make an absolute main event, undeniable future star with that last person. And everybody we've named already are already main event.

can't miss you know champion stars already like they're already that So, like, I want it to be the field. I want it to be somebody who we don't see coming right now. Yeah. Who, like, at this time this year, we're like, yo, can you believe in July this guy was just in backstage? Like, even if it's Karrion Kross. I don't think it's going to be Karrion Kross. I wasn't Karrion Kross, but now he's got my vote. Go ahead. If it was somebody who just came out of absolutely nowhere and now is the man.

on January 1st, 2026. Like, what more do you want from that? You just made a new guy. All the guys that even have the ability to step to Cena are already made guys. They're all made guys. Randy Orton, Punk. Cody. Truth. Roman Reigns, they can't get any hotter. They can't get any bigger. But you can take a guy who you've been building and trusting, whether it's Brom Breaker, whether it's Melo.

whether it's the theory I think I still believe in awesome theory man and well I do too it would just be real like just pulling him out of obscurity at this point yeah sure but Yeah, I still believe in a guy like theory. I still think, you know, even a guy like Pento, I don't think it would happen with. But it's like, yo, the dude's over like shit. Like, why the hell not? Like, why not?

do that I just want it to be somebody getting their first championship retiring John Cena I don't care who it is I'm sure a lot of people listening to this agree with you I just get stuck in the practicality of it all well I think everyone's I think all those people right now are they're doing their campaigning I think everyone in the WWE

is openly campaigning to be that last John Cena match. Yeah. By how over they are, by how popular they've been, how great they've wrestled, how much buzz they got. They should all be on that open campaign for them to be like, oh my God, can this be the guy who does it? Can this be the person who finally brings the title home? That's the whole story at the end of the day. He wants to ruin wrestling.

And essentially, the guy who beats John Cena, retires him and takes the title, will save it. Yeah. Who's going to be the savior of wrestling? It's like the Death Rider story, basically. Yes. Yes, it is.

Everything's always the same. No, I agree. I agree. I mean, Mellow's an interesting one because he's getting more than a look, but it does seem like he's in a little bit of a holding pattern. He's... lost in his attempt to make it to the king of the ring or to win the king of the ring just running back running down Smackdown's results

December is a long ways away, man. December is a long way away. No, it's true. That's what I'm saying. I don't want to say these names. Oh, you think he's going to hold the belt to December, though, is what you're saying. Possibly? Like, I think SummerSlam's the moment. Like, if it's not him at SummerSlam.

Cody or Punk or R-Truth at SummerSlam, then what do you do? Or maybe you put all of them in the ring together at SummerSlam and the stipulation is none of those three dudes can challenge him again. I got one last scenario. Okay. John Cena doesn't lose. You just said he might have to put somebody over. But that's my last scenario. Wait for it. Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. Okay. He really leaves. He really ruins wrestling. He really wins the title. Walks out with it.

There's no more WWE champion. And then his final, final, final match, WrestleMania. Like, for the first three months, Cena's really gone. It's really Avengers Endgame. It's Thanos. It's like, oh my God, he really did it. He actually pulls off the Summer of Punk thing that Punk never got to because he had to rush back. And then, I don't know by how you do it, but you finally...

John Cena is driven to such madness in his real life, like trying to do real stuff, that he signs a one-night contract deal for WrestleMania night two. And you get one chance. The winner of the Royal Rumble gets that one chance to save wrestling and be the savior at WrestleMania and bring the title home. And that's the official go home of Johnson. He does wrestle throughout the contract.

His contract's done. He leaves as champion. Thanos really snapped his fingers. Everybody really went to dust. It really happens. And then they figure out how to travel through time and re-fix it. like somebody, you know, Tony Stark and Steve Rogers get on the same page and like, yo, that's the best way to do it. We got to get them. Yeah. You got to really sell it though. I mean, they would have to debut a new world title belt, you know, do the whole thing. Just like we got to recover.

from this madness. You gotta take the initial hit of holy shit, he really is God. He's really God. turn it into some real, like, let John Cena live his real life for the first three months, be on the movie premieres, the TV premieres, and everywhere he goes, Cody Rhodes is haunting him. Everywhere he goes, Cody Rose is behind him on a red carpet talking shit. Just everywhere he goes.

Oh, is he really going to leave like that? This would be so hilarious. There's no way this could happen. And then, I don't know, John Cena is married already, right? They already had the wedding. I was about to say, like, Cody Rhodes, like, interrupts John Cena's wedding. Gives him a cobra. as a wedding present? Yeah, he does something so foul and vile that John Cena demands a one-night contract from Triple H to defend his title for the last time at WrestleMania. And then that's...

that's when you make it happen. And then John Cena really walks off of the spotlight, gets his real WrestleMania goodbye, and then that's it. That's the other doomsday scenario. If you don't put over a new guy... on seen us on the way out. Just have him win. Just have him win. Just be like, yep, he did it. Holy shit. He's the GOAT. I can't believe he really did what he said he was going to do. And nobody was good enough to stop him.

Yeah. For four months or whatever. That would be so hard to put over in the modern day, but it's kind of awesome. It is. Put it out there. Just put it out there, man. It might happen. I'd like to see it. Well, there's a couple of people that won there.

king of the ring qualifiers, king and queen of the ring qualifiers that sort of draw a line. I think, I don't remember exactly what we said on the last show. My expectation was that Cody Rhodes, I mean, it was either going to not win or he's going to win the whole thing, right? And he won. So he's advanced in the King of the Ring qualifier. Randy Orton, as mentioned before, also advanced in an incredible...

an incredible ending to that match. We had Rollins' crew, Bron and Bron Security come in and take out LA Knight. which led to Melo going to the top rope to jump off onto him and seal the belt. I mean, and seal the match. But then out of nowhere, RKO. Orton beautifully RKO'd Carmelo Hayes directly onto LA Knight, who was lying on the ground. And then Orton picked up the win. It was just an incredible mid-air RKO. Always fun when they can figure out a new piece of that.

Alexa Bliss advance in her match. Charlotte had the figure eight locked in at the same time as Alexa got the pin. You know, they got, I guess, their respective wins with a... fraction of a second between them, but Alexa wins. They had to stare down at the end. Whatever happens there, I guess, is going to come back to haunt Alexa. I don't even know if I should say no pun intended in the next round. Or maybe help her. Who knows? This tension is very hard to read.

And then, oh, Jade Cargill advanced. It was a pretty fun ending to that match, too, with everybody sort of taking each other out to see Piper Niven in her Mankind Halloween costume. Nia Jax threw the ring railing and then took out Meechan and then Jade came in and hit the finisher, rolled Piper Niven up for the win.

It was good. It was a really good show. I mean, it was big. It's still three hours long. Would you see this bit where like, I guess Meltzer and Alvarez and they were talking and Meltzer reported that they're going to just stick it three hours now for SmackDown. It was actually a really funny exchange. Alvarez was just like, well, I guess are they going to start getting paid more for this? And Meltzer was like, no, they're just going to keep giving it to him for free. And Alvarez said...

What do you mean? I'm going through this torture for charity? I did not do that justice, but anyway. I don't know what he said. They're doing this for free. I'm suffering through this for charity was the exact line. Oh God. It's worse. You guys watch and talk about wrestling for a living. There's much.

much worse existence it is listen it's a wonderful life that we have it's a wonderful life we're blessed to do it but it is worse listen we don't we're not we're not doing live reaction no but we're not doing live reaction shows either so Oh, that is true. That is true. But that's, you know, Dave, you had the unenviable, you know, shoulder of.

being respected in your industry so i think it's it's a lot it's a lot of weight to carry when you know you could just talk about what happens because it's true

Your, you know, your mind is, you've given so much to this wonderful world of wrestling media that you don't have to do reaction podcasts and, you know, get off of viral reactions and stuff like that. I was at a birthday party, one of my... six-year-old's friends had a birthday this weekend and i was just like talking to the dads and somebody asked what i did and i told him and he goes oh my god and then he looked he like called to another guy from across the room

And he was like, did you know that David does professional wrestling podcasts for his job? Yeah. And I was like, oh, we got a fan over here? But it turned out he was not a fan. This was just the way that this father just wanted to help me strike up a conversation. He was being the matchmaker or whatever. Oh, that's nice. It was. It was incredibly nice.

It was a wonderful party. It was very chill. Shout out to all the dads that got to talk about wrestling this weekend. Unencumbered. It was a good weekend for all of us.

you know what i'm saying oh yeah uh you know it's it's always funny having combos about like my career with other dads during the weekends like i went to i went to a little family gathering yesterday and you know, I get more, more conversations about, you know, the mellow stuff recently, but it's always like they always ask you like the most.

broad wrestling question on earth when they find out you work in wrestling. Like, the first thing they ask me to be like, yo, so Vince McMahon is really like that? And I'm just like... Where do you want me to start, Chief? I don't know what that... Oh, that's great. I thought you were going to be like, you mean the fake wrestling or the real wrestling? Right, right, right. It's always a weird...

Just overly general question to which, you know, because we do what we do, it's always never a weird or straight up answer. But like, I don't know. I don't know. Wrestling dads are having a great, great moment right now, especially for a millennial who grew up with the Attitude Era and stuff.

Don't we kind of get to prove everybody wrong now, right? We all grew up telling people to suck it. Oh, Brian says yes. Well, I mean, I feel like the Attitude Era was the first version of that, right? I mean, we had people who weren't even wrestling fans who were gathering. around the TV to watch Monday night stuff. But yeah, right. But this is the first time since then, for sure. All I got told back then was how it's going to ruin, you know, society and people are going to listen.

Statistically speaking, millennial dads are the most present dads there is, and we outperformed our predecessors by damn near 67%, all right? You remember how dads used to be back in the day, bro? They would just... you know, they'd go out for smokes. Like those go out for cigarette stories really happened. You can't do that no more on social media. They'll find you.

Yeah, it's true. People used to do that type of stuff. So we're proven wrong that being raised on, you know, suckets and beer drinking and middle fingers, you could actually turn out to be a halfway decent person. Social media and cell phones too. I mean, I like...

I love it when I'm like watching an old movie or not even old, like a movie from our childhood, from whatever, from the early two thousands. And there's just some degenerate dad who's like, sorry, honey, I got to work late. And then you guys, it's the bar or something. It's just like, That could just never happen, man. People used to start whole families and just move down the street and nobody would know. They would literally be like a mile down the street.

And they raised a whole other family and nobody would see them. That's the advent of... Listen, we're doing alright, guys. Just put it there. How did we get here? I don't know. Dead stories. Happy Father's Day. Let's toast the degenerates of the previous generation. Listen, I think we have a lot of dads that listen to this show. And I think we like to prove...

Everybody that said we were going to grow up and be screw ups wrong because every guy I know is a pretty wonderful dad. All right. And then we all told somebody to suck it once or twice in our life. So. I think it's all right. I think we're doing good. We got all that out of our system. We got it all out. There you go. Watching DX. Watching our puppies and all that type of stuff. All this garbage we watch these kids.

Built character. There you go. There you go. It lets you know you can enjoy the puppies, but you do everything in your power to make sure you are more than puppies as they grow up. You are more than puppies. You are champions. You are athletes. You are stars. You are the stars of the show, all right? More than that. This is why we have context now. We saw all the bad. We were like, all right.

We saw the electrical wires and the parents and the TV, right? It's like, all right, we know the guardrails. Don't touch that. That's too far. That's too much. Dude, I love this. WWE should do a PSA. The Azubair was actually good for this generation. Look at what happened. Look what turned out. Look how it all turned out. Look at all the incredible women's wrestling that we have right now that we all raised on.

It's not like we saw it at a time. Shoot. Our kids want to be like Bianca and Rhea now. That's true. Beautiful. It's beautiful. That was a wild tangent, but I hope it made sense to someone out there. Oh, my God. Happy Father's Day to everybody. This is what happens when there's no collision on Saturday. We just let it rip. Yeah, we don't really have any AEW specifically to discuss. And All In is still a ways off. We'll have more of that on Thursday.

I can't believe WWE's counter-programming that. What a bunch of crazy people. Okay, I got some AEW stuff. I'd love to get your thoughts on that. Oh, hit me. Dax Harwood. Oh, that's a good one. This is a good one. Love this. Go read it. Let me see if I can find the actual tweet that he had here. But I'm paraphrasing here, but Dax. Quote tweeted a fan this week. Boom. Quote tweeted, Russell Banana said, WWE will never be forgiven for making fans believe that the tag team division is mid-card.

And Dax quote tweeted it and said, this, this for years, tag team wrestling was top of the card. Then one man decided he hated it. Fans eventually accepted it because... There was really no other choice to excuse, quote, I have to pay twice as much as bullshit. Cash and I worked over 180 matches one year, more than any other wrestler, and we're still the lowest paid wrestlers on the roster. Even if you doubled our pay, we were the lowest.

The wrestlers as well bought into this belief. They became selfish and wanted to, quote, hit all my moves. The tag team wrestling can be the single most exciting part of the show with the most story involved. It just takes a little bit of creativity. Dave, your thoughts on that? Well, that's undeniable. I mean, the idea about tag team wrestling used to be top of the card. I mean, just go back, just Google, like, you know.

wrestling posters from his from their vintage wrestling posters or whatever um it wasn't always just tag team wrestling but there was also i mean listen there was a there was a sort of exotic allure that we used to initially it was called like australian rules wrestling that's what tag team wrestling was and there's no reason why a tag match was any less than a big time match i mean it was part of how they kept things fresh with more limited rosters you know

And there were tag, there were specialist tag teams, but a lot of the time it was just, you know, two biggest Saturday night type things, you know, like John Cena won, you know, like tag team event. So yeah, I mean, I think that obviously Vince McMahon played a big role in this. I mean, Eric Bischoff gets a lot of flack for saying tag team wrestling is dead.

which I don't even know if he claims to have said that. I know he's made excuses for it a lot. I don't know if he's disputed actually having said it. All right, so let's... Let's play devil's advocate here. A tag team match that I think could have main evented a WrestleMania I think was TLC, right? If TLC main evented... WrestleMania, and Austin and Rock did it, would that be considered a better show or a worse show? It's so hard. Isn't it? It's so hard to imagine.

even if TLC would have been that good if it weren't sort of playing the underdog spot on the card. Because I'm reading the tweet and saying, and in the tweet he goes, one man decided... tag team wrestling wasn't a main event. It's like, nah, bro. The people decide that. People like one-on-one matches to main event their shows. I don't think it's just, oh, Vince McMahon didn't think tag team matches to main event shows.

But that's also the way that we're being fed the stories, right? I mean, the way that all of those Hogan matches, you know, Hogan-Andre was magical. Hogan-Savage had some magic to it, too. But a lot of those big Hogan feuds were just kind of paint-by-number stuff. They could have pulled that level of storytelling off. Of course. In the tag team ranks. And I'm not saying tag team matches can't.

main event you know i mean i do think there's a modern era sort of conversation to be had here because you know we are so much more we're so much closer to our to the modern I mean to wrestlers now we hear him in interviews we see him on social media like we know them personally you know the same way that like people follow NBA players more than they follow teams these days you know like we like and I think in the tag team

you could tell so much more. In some ways, the tag team was better for storytelling in the ring, right? Because it's not just the story that you tell with your opponent, but it's the story that you're telling with the people on the same team. You know, it's like watching tag team partners celebrate together after a win is, you know, is an obvious moment, but just seeing them reach in to try to get the tag when the other guy's getting beaten down and like, whatever, there's so much more drama.

that you can pull out of a tag team match. And some of those roles can be filled by managers or friends outside the ring, valets, whatever. And even, you know, in those days too. But there's so much more drama. But that drama is less necessary. in the modern era because we're so much more invested in the individuals um you know like if if this were if they had social media at the peak of like whatever the rock and roll expresses heyday

Would Ricky Morgan and Robert Gibson have separate Twitter accounts or would it just be like the Rock and Roll Express Twitter account? It would be like WWE Usos and you'd have to have a little... mark at the end of the tweet to know which one I think they'd probably have separate Twitter accounts and they'd probably be like angry about who angry at each other if they had more followers right they'd probably they'd probably be a lot of backbiting and stuff going on

All right. Okay, so all that being said, though, right? Should the Hurt Business be the main event? Like, if he's saying all that. conceivably, what MJF, Lashley, Shelton, and MVP are doing right now should be the headline story, the main event story of AEW, right? Well, I think it is one of them. According to what Dax is talking about.

They should be the main event story. Because they're the tag team champs or because it's the best story? Both. See, that's why that tweet was kind of like, how much do you mean that? Because he says they could be the main event story. They just got to get a little creative. What MJF and the Hurt Business aren't doing isn't creative. Are they not the tag team champions?

So, like, what are you really saying? I think they're definitely closer to the top of the card than, you know, the tag-ups normally were in the WWE. I think story-wise, outside of what's happening for the world title, I think... The MJF and her business stuff is the most entertaining stuff AEW is doing right now. But it is not the main event story. And they are the tag team champions. So it just kind of makes me realize it's like, all right, I understand Dax is always...

going to defend tag team wrestling to the pits of his heart. But at the same time, to believe one man had so much influence in saying, oh... It's because of Vince that he just conditioned everybody that tag team wrestling... can't be the main event it's like no nobody's saying that naturally people like to see one-on-one matches like that's all it is it's like at the end of the day if you're if you're selling something if you're selling a top of the card like consistently

If you're doing it right and you're trying to do it profitably, it's been shown that a one-on-one matchup is usually your best bet, right? Yeah. So say that you got to get creative. Well, I mean, I think it's implicit. It's not a nigga. It's explicitly.

a knock on vince mcmahon but i guess you got to take it a step further right i mean to the point that you're making i mean what so what do you say about tony khan obviously he's given more at times, you know, more bandwidth, more spotlight to the tag division, but is he still like, from a Dax Harwood perspective, is he still...

irrationally influenced by growing up during the WWE era that he doesn't see tag team wrestling for all it's worth too? Would that be the argument? I'm not saying it's true or not, but is he blinded to the possibilities as well? Or does he know and he's just choosing not to do it to the same extent? I love Dax's passion for wrestling. Me too. I love that he gives this much of a fuck about tag team wrestling. For real.

But a lot of this just kind of seems like it's just not being logical, honestly. Well, no, no, no. Listen. Can tag team wrestling main event pay-per-views? Absolutely. We've seen it plenty of times. What I'm saying is what does he mean? Should tag team wrestling be the main event every show? Did he say it should? No. I think he's saying it can.

It has. He's making it seem like it never has. It definitely has. Be interesting. That's one thing you could do. Be interesting as hell and it will be the main event. We know that we'll always steal the show wrestling-wise and athleticism-wise and all that type of stuff. It would be like saying... There was a time in this country when banjo was the instrument that everybody cared about, right? That like people fucking gathered around a campfire to listen to a banjo play.

And you can be the best banjo player in the world. You can be so freaking convicted of how banjo is. And I love it. And I have a, I have a. bruce music aficionado i love a good i'm saying this is david jimmaier not just this imaginary person but back to the imaginary person You can say, you can make the case that banjo is so central to the American ideal and to the music world and everything that we listen to now. But as you're saying that, and maybe...

you know, there's going to be a great moment in music history. You're going to turn on the Grammys and like, you know, Bruno Mars is going to bring a banjo on stage or like whatever, like that might happen. But in the meantime, you are the biggest proponent of the banjo in the world have to realize that like you can convince a few people along the way but you're still playing the state fair on the weekend right I mean you're not

Just because you make a compelling case doesn't mean you get to play the Super Bowl halftime show. Right, right, right. Damn. You just called tag team wrestling a banjo. No, I was just listening to some banjo music. Damn. That's probably a better comparison. I feel Dax, though. I feel him. And I feel his passion for tag team wrestling and how much, you know, I think a lot of that is... a little short-sighted. But again, who am I to judge? I mean, I don't know shit, but I'm just going off of...

Just going off of what we've seen for so far, it's more than just one guy, right? Yeah. He says it as if like tag team wrestling has never main evented a show before. Like it was women's wrestling is what it made it sound like. I was like, I'm like, no, no, no, no. Women's wrestlers.

really were not in the main event. Like, they really, at some time, were literally just one part of the show that wasn't this, right? It's like, no, Tag Team Wrestling is... What are you talking about? Like, Tag Team Wrestling is the main event in plenty of shows, but like... by and large combat sports people like what like dog you've seen that viral video of like a tag team UFC out there like the cage by the way like I'm sure it's great to watch

But like, by and large, because it's chaos and it's awesome and it's something you don't see and it's variable to the show. But by and large, people want to see one-on-one, mano-a-mano.

like they could only be one it's highlander dog like that's that's usually what it's yeah i think you're i mean then like it's human nature right and even if you're really into a tag team you're waiting for them to split up you're waiting for the next alright there's always that talk about it but it's just like if you want to blame one man and what he's done with his company to all that sure but then you'd also have to blame like that's inevitable

You're right. Every other successful person who never thought, you know what would be great, Mike Tyson, if he puts you with another guy and you fight another guy. I'm sure they thought about it, but... Probably didn't make the best sense of the world to do it, you know, so I don't know.

You're right. That part of it is true. And it's lost its novelty, too. Like I said at the very beginning, there's a novel aspect to tag wrestling that got worn out sometime along the... time of the killer bees or whatever you know i mean you're just there's only so much you can really do to make it seem fresh and and whatever i mean listen tag team wrestling can and should be the you know main event when it's when it's the biggest thing on the card

But it's not often anymore the tag team specialists, quote unquote, that are in those roles. It's things like MJF and Adam Cole or the Hurt Business Now that you were talking about. Those are the sort of tag parts that... that really catch on. And maybe MJF and Mystery Partner versus her business when they split up is going to be a main event feud. Sure. The tag team match is literally closed out.

two WrestleManias, two WrestleMania nights in the past three years, right? And they were all not just great tag team wrestling. It was great creative storytelling that culminated in something, right? Like... It's true. I feel his passion. I feel him. But it just seems like, to me anyway, it just kind of seems like, I don't think, I don't think. I think you just mean. You want your tag team matches to main event. Well, you can't fault them for that. You can't fault them for that. You can't.

Because it's like, yo, you can't convince me that anything that FTR is doing is more interesting than what the Hurt Business is doing. And they're beating the shit out of people on top of that. So it's like... What's the real thing here? They're the tag champs. MJF has made them infinitely more interesting. Are they more important than what's going on with your world title? I wouldn't say so.

I wouldn't say so. And I think what they're doing is actually pretty creative and really entertaining. And on top of that, I get to see these dudes just mow through people, which me personally, I love to see. Right? Yeah. Come on, son. Let's just be real. I mean, tag team wrestling could have main evented WrestleMania 9. Facts? Facts, right? Like, you're talking about... Well...

Wait, which match are you talking about? You're talking about... WrestleMania 9, Hogan and Beefcake versus Money, Inc. Well, that was... I think that was, I watched the documentary. That was the thought at one point, right? That he was going to main event or something like that? I guess. But, you know, I think that's off the back of Hogan. I'd much rather see, you know.

I'd much rather see something else. I think everybody wanted to see. You see, here's the thing, right? You mentioned that. The only reason why I could have main evented WrestleMania 9 is because Hulk Hogan was in it. And the only people that wanted to see it. was Hulk Hogan in a one-on-one match. And Hulk Hogan couldn't do a one-on-one match at that point. So that's why they had the tag team match. It wasn't because the tag team was so wow. You know what I mean? It was because of Hulk.

And people just wanted to see Hulk. I mean, yeah, you're right. I mean, that's the right use of tag team, right? WrestleMania 11, too. Like that... The LT Bigelow match should have been a tag team match. Let's give LT somebody like WrestleMania 1. Let's give this celebrity a partner. We didn't know what we was going to get from him that night, but...

You know, had it been two years later, or he had the skill set that he would have had a couple years later, that was a tag match. There you go. Yeah. Damn. I didn't think that suite was going to take me there until we started talking about it. I was like, oh man. Listen, man. You know what? You got a lot of big takes today. Goldberg is the best and tag team wrestling is the best. That's the name of the show.

That'll put butts in the seats. Yeah, for sure. A couple of news notes I want to get to before we head out of here. For a guy who loves Goldberg, you're going to be excited about this news. hikuleo is officially working all right he was on i'm just kidding he was on uh uh joking what was he on the main event main event the main event he's out there getting his reps in

He's been under contract for a year. Yes. And now, you know, Solo Sakoa is looking for, might be looking for some new muscle now that he's lost his friendship with Jacob Fatu. Or we might be in for another whole bloodline versus bloodline thing. Who knows how this is going to line up? I guess Hikaleo is... Or Talatanga, as he's known on the internet. Is...

you would assume, would line up with the Tongans. Yes. Dave, can you stomach some more bloodline? Do you got any more room on your plate for another help in the bloodline? I think as long as Jacob Fatu is involved, the answer is yes. Whatever he's doing, I'm in on. And by the way, Solo Sekoua. And Solo. Yeah, let's not sleep on how great Solo's been since he's become like... Solo has been a really integral part of this, of the Jacob Fatu.

eyes and has looked great in his past couple of outings in the ring or look as you know as good as you could possibly hope yeah I think I have room for this I have room for this I am not mad at this at all I think Solo's really coming to his own, man. Like, can you believe they didn't let this guy talk for like a year and a half? And now he doesn't shut up. He doesn't. And every time he talks.

It's hilarious. The dude got Cedric the Entertainer mannerisms all of a sudden. I'm just like, where did all this come from? For that only, I'm willing to see where... this solo and Jacob feud is going to go. And yeah, we might get a little bit of a, you know, NWO Silver and Black era of Bloodline right now. NWO 2000 a little bit, you know, with the...

the new Tongans and the JC Mateos and all that stuff coming in, but if this takes Solo to a higher level, I think it's all eventually worth it. Jacob's already there. Like, Jacob is... And just wait, if they can keep it siloed at all...

If you want to make him your preemptive Royal Rumble pick in 2026, I wouldn't be mad at you. But Solo still needs to like... hit a level and I think character wise he's done it but I think in the ring he's got to start like convincing us like yeah he's really one of them too yeah I can't decide if he needs to just sink a little bit deeper into this character or just like sink or into a whole new thing

you know like there's still like I guess Jacob Fatu has a little bit more of that you know old school Islander sort of vibe to him just this sort of wild man but i would love to see solo be like this like mob boss who also is like literally has blood on his hands you know like david be like have some of that have some of that just red face paint or something. You know, just a little bit more. Nah, you know what it is? Solo... What I love about Solo's character is that he's kind of like...

He tries to be like Suge Knight, but we all kind of don't buy it. Yes. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't know. Have you ever watched those Luke Cage or something? Those cheesy... you know, bosses that swear they're like, you know, the connected guy and they're really not, you know what I mean? Like, but I like that. I like them leaning into more of.

Honestly, like... But at some point, he's got to be real. At some point to get over... No, but that's the thing. I think him leaning into the more city, like urban side of, you know, what the bloodline is instead of the more island, tribal side of it. I think would be more interesting for me. Like if it takes more of a street angle to it of on some, you know, like if you've watched what Jacob sort of evolved into, he's sort of...

just evolved into more, you know, wearing the Raiders jerseys and all that type of stuff, more authentic version of himself. And I think this probably speaks a little bit more to, you know, if this was a Fast and the Furious sequel, this would be like Bloodline.

six, right? It would be the time that he got a little bit more sophisticated. I do think Jacob's so incredible in the ring. I think for me, for Solo, it's like he's not limited. He's still got a lot of upside in the ring, but where he is right now...

I like the Samoan spike. I just want to see him get more brutal, more violent. That's sort of where you have to go. Let's say historically with like, I mean, he's not a monster per se, but like historically you want to put them over. Let's let them like murder somebody. I feel like. I feel like with that, there's still the shadow of Zillofatu out there too. You know what I mean? I still feel he's kind of...

Arguably, outside of Jacob, he's probably got the most buzz in the family that's not signed to WWE. He's really, of all the... Cover your eyes if you're sick of more Fatou and Hawaii dominance. that dude is going to be a WWE star soon, and I don't see him starting from the ground up. He seems like a dude that they're going to bring in immediately and make an impact whenever that happens.

And his character kind of speaks to where Jacob and Solo are right now and less of the history, the tribal, our family. It's got to be like, all right, this is where they are now, though. Yeah. you know so i can see what's true but just wait i mean you talk about how do we have a stomach or can we stomach more bloodline you know in fighting

If they just keep this going for a while, imagine the moment at the Royal Rumble next year when like all of the bloodliners are in the ring at the same time. You get Jade, Jimmy, and Roman in there too. Roman, solo. Like everybody starts staring each other down. Jey Uso, by the way, your ex-champion Jey Uso, has officially been announced as the mystery entrant in tonight's Monday Night Raw King of the Ring qualifying match. Now, in kayfabe...

Was Adam Pearce just leaving this spot open in case Jey Uso? Or was it going to be either Jey Uso or Gunther? Or did somebody get booted out? Did all of our suggestions as to who this might be get... kicked aside when Jay lost the title and demanded his way into this qualifier? Babe, I have no idea what they're doing with this. No clue. I couldn't tell you. One, why announce it online? It kind of takes the steam out of it a little bit.

You announced the mystery while he was still the champ. I think because too many people were fantasy booking who he was going to be. So why even make it a mystery is my thing. No, that was the mistake. But I think when they realized it, they should have just said it's either Jay or Gunther in the match.

right the loser of this match will be placed into the king of the ring tournament boom right like that's what they should have done but leaving out the mystery but hey guys you figured out the mystery it's this guy So now tonight we got J versus Miro, sorry, Rusev versus Sheamus versus Big Bronson Reed. Who's going to win? This has been a very front runner. or obvious winner, King of the Ring qualifier so far. I kind of feel like... Jay is the most obvious person here, I guess. I don't know.

To be honest, like... Jay, the story they told with Jay was that he ran out of gas and he was going to put him in a four-way tournament with like three monsters like the very next week. I don't think Jay's winning that. Well, that's going to be the excuse, right?

Right. So whoever wins this match is going to go up against Cody Rhodes in the next round. So you could tell an interesting Jey Uso-Cody Rhodes story in the next round. You could. That might be more interesting than... I mean, Rusev just seems like, why would you have him win? and then lose to Cody Rhodes. Just sort of like exactly like establishing him and setting his ceiling in two consecutive weeks, right? I mean, I ain't gonna hold you.

I'd be pretty excited for a Cody Rhodes-Rusev match around this side. I would too. I would too. I would be hoping Rusev would win. And we got Sami Zayn and Randy Orton on the other side. I mean, this match is going to happen. at at king of the ring i mean sorry at knight of champions right the finals of both sides will happen there so

It does feel a little bit like Randy Orton versus Cody Rhodes at Night of Champions makes some sense, right? You know, I mean, just the biggest match possible for the Saudi crowd. But maybe that's the Sami Zayn spot too. I mean, he's so over there. So Sami Zayn versus... If Cody's not in it, Randy's not in it, you could put them in other matches. You could do Sami Zayn versus Rusev for the big King of the Ring crown. I mean, there's a lot of different ways you can go with this.

You know, Sami Zayn's XP goes up like 10 points in Saudi. Yeah, I know. You know, so he ain't losing. He ain't losing in front of that crowd. So that's another thing. So if he gets past Randy Orton, he's going to win. He's going to be King Sami, King Zayn. King Zane sounds crazy. I'm so focused on who gets the title shot that I completely forget.

you get the crown and we get to call you king for a while, right? Like, so who fits? I don't know who fits that the best either. King Cody doesn't seem... Rusev would be up there. Yeah. I mean, it would be kind of a... it would kind of be a great fallback for, for Jey Uso too. I mean, just the sort of like King Harley race style, like, like the champion in exile. Right. Um, uh, Yeah. I don't know. King Orton? King Randall? I hope that one of these baby faces gets it and just goes full, like...

like, you know, like lunatic heel, just like gets, thinks there, does the, does the King Booker thing. That's the best use of King of the Ring. I don't even care about the title shot. I just want to see you. take it so very seriously like change the accent walk around with your pinky in there go full booker t man like i love it's true king of the ring and it just takes over their entire head like i don't even care about the title at that point

It's funny. Dang. And then we got... Is this other wins tonight too, right? Asuka versus Stephanie Vaqueror versus Rico Rodriguez versus Ivy Nile. It's going to be obviously Vaqueror or Asuka. And it's just so uncertain now to see how Asuka is going to be booked upon a return. I feel like either of those, it'll feel obvious as soon as it ends.

kick ourselves for not realizing it, but whatever. And that winner takes on Alexa Bliss. We got Jade Cargo versus Roxanne Perez on the other side. I think we're all in agreement that this is going to be Jade Cargo for the win. That's my guess. Heading towards some sort of Naomi Jade Cargill match at SummerSlam. Unclear. What's Bianca Belair's timeline now? Do we have any idea? I don't know. She had a broken hand.

showed up for a little bit but gone I don't know but you know so you could do Naomi versus Jade for a title at SummerSlam if Naomi cashes it in or you could wait till Jade comes back and gets a title I mean I Well, the timeline's all kind of off, but I would assume... Who knows, man? Who knows? All that matters is all the big three will be positioned for a title match. What? Uh...

There's this lawsuit with AEW. Jon Moxley shoved the camera guy. I just saw that. Have you seen the clip? It's playing right now. I'm literally looking at it. Yeah.

I'll read what this quote here says. This was during the Omega Moxley steel cage match. Moxley goes and takes the... what does he do he like grabs a screwdriver and shoves a cameraman on the ground and the cameraman is now saying he wasn't he's not a worker this wasn't scripted he's holding this expensive camera and he really and he got injured so I guess if that's true I mean listen if that's true if Moxley just

decided to shove a cameraman. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm saying that's the kind of thing that people get sued for these days. There'll be some sort of settlement. Oh, for sure. If that person is not a worker and he filed a lawsuit, oh, he's going to get paid. That's happening. I'm the biggest wrestling fan. I would...

It would be the highlight of my life if I got to be a cameraman who got shoved by Jon Moxley. I love it. But I got to tell you, if that was my job, no matter how big of a wrestling fan I am, I'd be like, it'd be dumb of me not to take this $5 million, man. Are you kidding me?

Especially if I don't see it coming. Are you shitting me? It would not be a moral argument. It would just be a purely financial one. You mofos do not pay me this well to get shoved by Jon Moxley in the camera. Which is kind of funny. Wrestling as a whole is how many times we kind of see that during wrestling and then we see what happens if you actually do it in real life. It's like, yeah.

you don't get paid enough to get shot by a wrestler. For sure. I was on the indies. I sit there and watch people shoot like CZW shooting those death matches. No, I stood, I was doing social media. I stood far enough to have enough distance. Like, I was not getting paid. Or you better have some real love of the game, bro. Like, you better be one of our boys. And you just know, like, hey, man, Moxie's my guy. You know? And, you know, he let me know. Like, all right, I'm going to, you know.

If I get into it, it's no issue, whatever. Just, you know, whatever. If he didn't see that coming, if Mox didn't give him a heads up or none of that stuff, like... Or even if he did, you could be like, hey, I'm going to shove you. And if you don't know it, you're going to be like, oh, it's going to be a fake shove. You know, like, whatever.

but also it's like you're holding a camera it's like you know it's like when you're like holding your kid and then something happens to you and you're like oh you're like you're liable to die because you're just worried about them

you know yeah nah yeah i knew a guy once one of my old bosses he was an older man uh he was he was he went and got ice cream for him and his lady friend and then on the way back stepped off a curb didn't see it coming and was so worried about saving the ice cream he like ended up

waiting to the last second to catch his fall and like broke both his wrists but anyway nah there's a reason they do this though man like when i was there when i was in wwe for every single any single segment that involved physicality you needed a producer on the segment and you know if the producer on the segment with the producer on the segment you usually needed an extra and back then if you knew you're going to shove a camera

or do something with somebody who's not a wrestler like there was usually a ton of extras in the back that would pose as whatever you need and then you'd have to have a producer sort of like double check the physicality that's going to be taken before it's even approved to get on the show uh d malenko was one of my uh physicality guys arn anderson All the legends back there, they usually get the A-OK if it is what it is. And it's for this specific reason, right?

Which I learned the hard way, right? Like, funny enough, one of my... It's funny this happens now. One of my first months working at WWE, I was doing pursuit in a segment with the Authors of Pain. And... during one of the segments, and again, I didn't know this, I had one of the AOP guys shove one of our assistants while walking through the hall.

And somebody pulls me, and thank God it wasn't live. It was a pre-tape. And, you know, when the producer said, yo, yo, yo, what are you doing? He's like, oh, you know, I thought you were good. I'm still thinking out the box creatively, all that type of stuff. It was like, nah, bro. Anything that involves physicality, you come and see one of us. Writing, if no one's getting physical, it's all you. You got it.

But like if someone is, if one of our wrestlers are putting hands on somebody who was not a contracted wrestler. You see us. There is a protocol on what we do to do that. Well, you know, that's growing pains, right? For AEW? I don't know. It just seems so whatever. It's only because it literally just popped up on my screen.

As I'm wrapping this up, I was like, oh, yeah, this is exactly why they do this. They can sue you. This is it. This can be good. Jon Moxley's just got to make that his gimmick. I just beat up the cameraman. All right. Cut the check. You got to lean into it. It's whatever. Like I said, I have really no opinion on this. What else? Hey, Big Oma signed a new contract. Congratulations to that guy.

Shout out Omos. Cut the check. Triple mania is going on. You see the Vakingo beat Alberto again in a very botchy. steel cage match finish not sure if you saw that but but hey climbed over the top Which is all I can ask for. That's how I want my cage match at the end, baby. Climb to the top. Climb over. Both feet touch the bottom. I can't disagree with that. Can't disagree with that. Those guards are the tag team champs now.

down in AAA. So good for them. Congratulations. We'll see if we see them on TV. Should be good. I think that's it. You see the WWE going to Mexico in July? So they are? Yeah, a couple of live events in Mexico City in Monterey on July 26th. Monterey, yeah. Monterey at the CDMX Arena. Nice. So yeah, super show. All right, we're getting closer to that paid Mexico City trip that we've been dreaming of, guys. Just kidding. I think that's it, man.

Last night, I mean, listen, I want to start a new tradition where whatever Wikipedia page I have open from the show, I ask Brian Waters a trivia question. Okay. That I think he'll be able to get, but I know there's no way I would get it. Mentioned WrestleMania 11 earlier. Lawrence Taylor versus Bam Bam Bigelow was the main event. What match opened that show? Oh. That match was opened by the Ally Powers.

versus Jacob and Eli Blue. That's correct. I didn't think there was any way you would remember the Blue Brothers. I just thought that's a memorial. One of my famous five tapes, as I deem them, where I only had those tapes for a period where I didn't have cable, and I watched WrestleMania 11, WrestleMania 9, Royal Rumble 96, World War III 95.

and Survivor Series 95 over and over again after school. I know those shows by heart. Not exactly a deep cut for you then, as it will be for a lot of people. Shout out to the Blue Brothers. Shout out to Uncle Zebukaya, one of my favorite wrestlers as a kid, Dirty Dutch Mantel. Kaz, you want to get some plugs down the way out?

Yeah, man. New episode of 7 p.m. in Brooklyn is out right now with Ahmad Shumpert. Check that out if you haven't gotten a chance to. New episode will drop this Thursday as well with Kyanne Anthony and Jared Harper. top three pick in this year's NBA draft. You can check that out. And my podcast, Sailor, Casual, King, and Rosie, you can check out on the Fireside Podcast app. Download the Fireside Podcast app and, you know.

do that whole thing. And if anybody's going to be at Fanatics Fest this week, I'll be roaming around there. So any wrestling fans, come hang out. I'll be saying, hey, we ain't got no live shows this year, but I'll be out there. So it'd be cool to say what's up to you fellas and people. That's it. I forgot to mention. The Raw preview finally materialized on the website. Big news. Bayley has a message for Becky Lynch.

Uh-oh. Look out for that tonight. You can find me here. You can find me on the Press Box. Thank you to our producer, Brian H. Waters. Thanks to our EP, Bing Cruz. Thank you all for listening. Finn Balor's going to be okay. We'll see you back here on Thursday, Humanoids. Peace.