Je’Von Evans Talks Facing Gunther at MSG, Working With Randy Orton, and Being Authentic

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Cold open question of the week, Kaz. What up, shoes? What up, man? We had blood and guts last night. AEW had two big blood and guts matches and a no old bard match or anything. What was it? What was the stipulation? I thought it was a false count. I thought it was last man standing, right? It was supposed to be last man standing, but then it was just a pin out in the entrance ramp. I don't know. Anyway, regardless, a lot of violence happened last night. Here's my question for you.

Is this going to be a question about something I would do physically? No. I thought about it. There are a lot of versions of it. I'm not doing anything. If you were in a real fight... inside of a steel cage you versus somebody just one-on-one ish all right okay okay and you can only choose one weapon do you choose you could go any you can pick any weapon you want but i'll give you some some options of things we saw last night

A kendo stick, I believe a barbed wire kendo stick, but take whatever iteration you want. A staple gun, brass knuckles, a fork, a pool cue. Steel chairs, of course. Oh, title belts uses weapons. Hangman used a boot. You know, his own boot at one point. I don't know. Bed of nails. A full mirror. I don't know. What weapon would you choose? I would go kerosene and lighter. A bottle of kerosene and some hairspray. Like, is that a little lighter?

I just do a hairspray so we can just go projectile violence on it. Just blowtorch. Just blowtorch. You need a little homemade blowtorch for all the kids listening to right now. That's not a real thing. Just kidding. Just kidding. Just kidding. Don't do that. The problem with the homemade blowtorch is while you're like, you know, flicking the lighter, all it takes is for the other guy to like.

boot you in the face one time, and you've dropped it, and now you've lost your weapon. Now you're on fire, too, possibly. That's also another thing. I don't know. I wouldn't... I would... I think the barbed wire bat is the most fundamentally sound weapon you can have, right? Everything else just seems a little bit more showy and less goy, right? Barbed wire, a baseball bat alone...

hurts. A barbed wire, there's details in the paint right there. You know what I mean? Like, I want to take a little bit of skin with you. And, you know, it's intimidating. You can walk around like Homeboy from The Walking Dead. And people know you're not to be messed around with. Everything else, it's like, if I jingle a bag of thumbtacks in front of you, that's not going to... I got to do the work to get you to feel that, right? That's too much. I'm not setting it up.

Barbed wire bet. Final answer. That was my first instinct too. I think at the end of the day, listen, I'm going to lose the fight. I feel like no matter what weapon, after I said that about the blowtorch, no matter what weapon I bring in, I'm probably going to lose it. So I kind of want a small weapon that I can hang on to. I feel like...

I feel like a fork is the real coward's way out here. Even if they got you in a headlock, you can be poking them in the head. No matter what they're doing, you can be forking somebody and really bothering them. As much as I wasn't going to start there, I think I'm going to go with the loser Jon Moxley and go with the four. Let's start the show.

Today we're going to talk about blood and guts, bloodiness, Zootopia 2, and we have a very special interview with the one and only Javon Evans today on... the mask man show with kaz how you doing buddy doing good shoes uh let's see i texted you guys at approximately what was it about 90 or sorry about um 8 12 yesterday 12 minutes after aew dynamite began and i said in case you guys are wondering sky blue is already bleeding like a stuck pig

I mean, that was the beginning of the night. Sky Blue got in the ring and just was busted open. Mm-hmm. They gave her a 7.5 on the Muda scale on there. I can't dispute that. The Muda scale was definitely out last night, for sure. That was the beginning of the night.

Yeah. At the beginning of the night and it did not end. It was get Kylo. I mean, so everybody was bloody. There was a point where like they had, they had a picture of the women after the match, like the, the, the victorious crew. I mean, It's very rare that you see a match. There's some one-on-one matches. If you both bleed, obviously somebody bleeds more than the other one.

But it's very rare that you see a picture like that with so many people covered in blood and you're not even sure if they were all bleeding or if that's just runoff blood from other people or you don't even remember where all the blood came from. And it's certainly rare that someone like... I don't know. Marina Shafir, was she bleeding at some point? Her face was certainly covered in blood. Yeah. The megasus, you know, like she was definitely bleeding.

But like not in a way that it almost seemed not worth it, except for the fact that just the gimmick was everyone was bleeding. I mean, not worth it in the sense that like you couldn't take your eyes off the sky blues of the world who were just like dripping red. This is the weirdest.

note i guess but wow what a crazy bloody night we had a big heel victory in the opener yeah uh you know the babyface team lost uh Timeless Tony Storm and her squad lost, but Love won out because she lost because she had to give up because Mina Shirakawa was about to get...

demolished, you know? That was the story. That's always a good spot. I always love a good surrender or else we'll kill your friend sort of spot right there. I agree. I agree. There's a little bit too much schmaz, a little bit too much... odd staging in both the matches I mean I think that's the point is just that like absolute chaos like in the second match just to jump ahead when

Wheeler, Yuta and Briscoe were up on top of the cage. And all of a sudden the crowd is like chanting along to the chair shots. I'm just like, I wonder what's going on inside the cage for the last five minutes. You know, it's like, it's not like everybody's laid out. It's there's people are still brawling. In the first match, you had three of the other three babyfaces got locked out of the cage. That's how that last spot came to be.

And I know I wasn't watching closely enough, but I was just sort of like, why is anybody making the save? Until the announcers like clued me in. I was just like, oh, that's right. They're locked out. I didn't see that, you know? But yeah, no, it was good. It was good. I don't know. I mean, I guess my biggest, I mean, they fit a lot into a really short amount of time in that women's match. I don't even know what the, Brian, can you check out how long those two matches were?

The women's match felt like as soon as the blood and guts started, it felt like it was over like a minute later. But maybe I was just too caught up. I'll give credit. First off, off rip. I think the women definitely had the better blood and guts match. I think so. I think they stole the show. I think their match, you know what I mean? And I think...

More people had to gain from that because I feel like the women's division in AEW outside of their big dogs and Tony Storm and Mercedes Monet needed some moments and they got them all in. So that was really good. And I'm not going to be nitpicky about the match at all. The event's called Blood and Guts. I need blood. I need guts.

A lot of it. Brian just did the numbers. The women's was 46-10. The men's was 54-10. Dang, the women's, I give it credit. That just flew by. I mean, I do think that there is a... That's a hell of a compliment. If it felt fast, then it was actually 40-something minutes. The, you know, I mean, there is a sort of like issue with the wind up in these matches and survival. I mean, in war games as well, where. I mean, sometimes over half the match is waiting for the match to really start.

The match doesn't officially start until all the participants are in the ring. By the time the match officially starts, you're exhausted watching it already. You're just like, how much more can these people bleed? But it was really fun. I mean, the women's match was really, really good. Everybody got a chance to really shine. Everybody looked really strong. You think it was a faux pas for Mercedes Monade?

to be wearing a blood-covered outfit as she entered the ring? If you were one of the people that... If you were somebody else, if you were sky blue and you were like, I can't wait to go, I'm going to, I have my little razor blade on my wrist tape. It's about to get crazy out there. And then Mercedes walks up covered in blood and you're just like,

But wait, I'm going to really bleed. Shouldn't you just wear all white and let somebody bleed on you as opposed to, well, anyway, it was a nice outfit. I feel like Mercedes, this is how you know Mercedes is a real vet. She was playing 4D chess. It's like, we know we're going to have this really dope photo. at the end of the match. All you guys are really bleeding. I'll have my nice, blood-soaked, non-gigged forehead smiling in that match. The real MVP of...

Blood and Guts is whoever taught everyone in AEW how to gig their foreheads. right it feels like who do you think that is is that like billy gunn back there no dustin it's got to be dustin right it's got to be dustin roads yeah it's got to be dustin back there telling them like yo listen if you really want to get that that gushy look He probably knows the specific artery to cut.

the specific angle like they probably probably has it down to like a mathematical equation yeah he grabs you by the grabs you by the skull and looks at your head for a second he's like right there yeah yeah like he squeezes like your temples for a little bit so

Or squeeze the side of your face until you get a nice little vein on your head. It's like, yep, that's the one. Hit it right there. Probably put a little mark on it before they go outside. Like, yeah, that's the joint. Because everybody bled like pigs. We get blood here and there. We got some blood, some inadvertent blood in the last man standing match with Trick Williams and Ricky Sainz. You get some blood here and there on some AEW shows. A show like Blood and Guts where you got...

The crimson mask. The just full on... Yes. I can't even see your skin. But it's blood, yes. But it's blood. Like, my God. You know, and I know I'm not the... we always talk about how sometimes AEW can do a little too much sometimes. And I say it all the time. Is it really a big AEW show? If you don't ask yourself, at least at one point, this might be a little too much. Yeah. That's how you know.

That's how you know you are fully invested in a regular episode of Dynamite or Collision. Something's happened. Maybe two or three things have happened that made you go... This might be a bit too far, just a little bit. So the MVP, presumably Dusty Rhodes, Dustin Rhodes teaching everybody how to properly gig their forehead because...

The face, the images of people just gushing blood everywhere. Fantastic. Fantastic. Speaking of MVPs, I mean, you got to say that Kyle O'Reilly was the MVP. I know you was hyped for that. Should I sell my Kyle O'Reilly stock? I've been sitting on this stock for a while. Should I sell it high right now? Do we think Kyle O'Reilly's star is going to continue to rise?

it's clear that Moxley's, you know, as much as an O'Reilly fan as I am, right? I mean, he's been, I think he got, before the neck injury, he got a big, he got a big moment. It was a win over, over Mox, but regardless, Mox seems to like to work with him, wants to put him over. Do you think we're going to get to see? I mean, is this time for a big Kyle O'Reilly singles push? I mean, beating Jon Moxley usually gets you a big push. Tapping him out.

is a whole different story. That ending sequence, the ankle lock to the, what's Mox's move called? Whatever. the neck hang out yeah the bulldog headlock bulldog headlock and then switching that to the arm bar and then switching out of that to the ankle lock again i mean That is some real old-school wrestling great stuff. Actually, it's obviously more jujitsu or whatever, but to start with the move, the crowd already feels it.

everybody's going nuts like is this could this be the moment all the others no one there to help mox like whatever and then just to pull out pull off the move and then like work your way right back up to it The crowd just turned itself up another five degrees. It was so well done. Is that like a... I'm sure lots of wrestlers listen to this show, so please respond if you...

Get this question. That's got to be like a moment that every wrestler lives for. The bloody face screaming in a submission hold. If you're Mox or if you're Kyle. if you're kyle like that is like a star making moment like if you're a smack dab in the middle of the ring and you got somebody locked in a submission hold and you're covered in blood it's like oh yeah we're gonna see that we're gonna see that visual for the rest of your career, maybe for the rest of

wrestling because it was an ill visual man like that is I saw one clip of it today that was in black and white was AEW posting their own shit in black and white like WWE used to is that a thing nah I think some people I think I know the one you're talking about I think that was just like an edit from somebody but they definitely did post it but i mean yeah i mean putting them black and white definitely lets people know just got how much damn blood was being that's for sure

Yeah. So like, I mean, it was your AEW car crash, man. Like at this point, anybody who like watches AEW programming and then want to spend. the next day or week or however many weeks discussing, oh, that was, I don't know if that was the best thing. Was that great business? And like overthinking it. It's like, listen. This is what AEW does. They go for pushing the envelope violently every time they can. Now it's just like they have set a standard.

where if it's a match with some real consequences and they've been building up for a long time, they're going to do a lot. They're going to try and fit in as much crazy shit as they possibly can and make sure each... person in that match gets a moment. And I think everybody in that match got a moment of extreme violence and just nastiness. He got pot gorilla pressing Darby All into a flaming table.

which was insane i mean that made them both look great that mean i know darby allen's probably about the lightest guy on the roster but but park looked like a million bucks and then darby of course taking that bump is crazy It was great when he was rolling. He's obviously done this so many times in his life on and off camera. He knows exactly how to take the bump and roll to make sure that he's cool. The fire doesn't stick.

He's rolling away from the multitude of people trying to help him out. You gotta let him stop, drop, and roll. You gotta let the elementary school... um, Let's just kick in at that point. He's so good at it that he's better than like 10 people trying to put out the fire. Let me do this. Let me just roll around. You're only going to hurt yourself. Like the people trying to put him out is probably a more danger than the guy who's.

actually on the fire. He's probably done it a zillion times. Pac looked great. Claudio had that great What's it called? Giant swing with Orange Cassidy on his shoulders. That was a great spot. Orange Cassidy looked good. Orange Cassidy breaking his own. The breaking the own sunglasses thing, you know.

It worked better on replay. I'll say that. So much happened so quickly in these AEW matches. It's just like Excalibur's doing all that he can to be like, well, remember that thing that happened three weeks ago? And that's what he's doing. And then by then, it's like they've moved. on to another spot but um but but yeah i mean that was a that was cool i mean he had a bunch of big moments getting his hands staple gunned into his pockets uh you know a great a very memorable moment

Everybody looked good. Even Wheeler Yuta got his stuff on top of the ring and crawling around outside the ring and getting bumped. Garcia. He was in there. He was doing his stuff. I can't wish there was more of a spot for him. There's only one thing. There's only one thing that I'm still just not... Still can't do. The stabby spots, man. The stabby spots are still the ones that are... The fork or what? Yeah, the fork that was like some scraping the...

The bat going on, there was a lot happening. If that fork stuff was shoot, was like, you know, was like a shoot stuff. it was not worth it. I'll just say that because it was not, it didn't look like it would have been just as easy to fake and there was no real payoff for it except that, that icky feeling in your stomach when you see something like that happening.

That's the, that's the one thing I still can't do, man. It's like, I don't want to, I don't, I don't want to too much stabby stabby. Never a big fan of this stabby stabby. That's crazy, man. I mean, just absolutely nuts. It was a lot of fun. We also had a world title match. Yeah. Hangman Page beat Powerhouse Hobbs, threw him through an electrical table, and what I thought was...

Maybe my favorite version of that spot that we've seen a bunch of times. I love that it was like the electric table and the lights flickered afterwards. I was just really well done. And also... for what it's worth, looked like it kind of hurt despite being totally gimmicked. You know what I mean? It looked like a real... It wasn't just like a you saw the inflatable bounce house that he fell into pop up or whatever.

But which maybe I'm just too old, but that helps for me. The end result, of course, is that let's see. Well, for one thing, Paige is taking on Chibata when I think next week. And then at. At Full Gear, his already announced match versus Samoa Joe is a steel cage match now. So we had a lot more violence to come. And I love violence. But what violence I don't like? My gosh, your boy Powerhouse Hobbs.

Taking that tailbone spot off the table. My God. I think every man over 35, like, there's something about the tailbone that is just never the same once you heard it.

It's not one of those things that you can just easily rehab and it's good as new. Once your body contorts that way and your spine and your butt bone just freaking... in debt like that lower back lower back and tailbone is everybody gets to a point it's sometime between the age of like 40 and 90 or it's just that's it man like what are you gonna do yeah i always say i'll never

I won't wish back issues on my worst enemy. Because once you got that shit, you just got it. And then the older you get, you're just like, why did I do that back body drop right into my ass several years ago? on Dynamite. Hobbs put up a great, I mean, that was a good powerhouse Hobbs match and a great pre-match promo. I was just, I only watched it this morning, but like, man, he's, he's like a real great total package wrestler. And I really, I really enjoy powerhouse Hobbs.

Yeah, I'm a fan of power outside. It is funny that they're in this spot in AEW where it's like, it's almost like to be that jacked, it like works against you a little bit. Like it certainly gets you like the spotlight. but I feel like there's a ceiling on anybody who's in just immaculate physical condition at that size that you're just like the fans like don't think you're legit you know there's this sort of vibe that like you're just there for the look

I really, I think he's freaking great. I'm glad he got that opportunity. I can't wait to see what the future holds for him. I think him and Joe together will hopefully do really good stuff for Powerhouse Hobbs because there'll be some point where Hobbs is the star, you know, like the real, like the dude. But, you know, nobody stays together in wrestling that long unless you're like shoot brothers or work brothers. Christian and Edge hung out for, they've been linked forever, so.

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Are there any other notables, any other VIPs from last night? Who comes after Kyle O'Reilly on the list? Oh, I mean, I think Tekla and Sky Blue. Yeah. Definitely stood out as MVPs. Yeah, the old Triangle of Madness, I think, came out looking really good. You know, I mean, the order of entrance into both matches was a little bit by the numbers.

Right. And so when we started out, not just, I mean, by the time sky blue got bloodied up, I wasn't really caring. I mean, I was happy that she was in there, I guess. Um,

But when Julia Hart came out second, I was like, are we just doing this in reverse order of drawing power? Is this going to be just a straight line the whole way through? But watching them in there together was so good. And I think... as great as those big moments in every, in every blood and guts match, there's always a moment or two where someone's like beaten to a bloody pulp and then they make the big comeback, you know, and they're like, Oh, they're in it again.

For me, my favorite of those moments last night was Sky Blue, like five minutes into the match, when Julia Hart came in and just kind of took over. I was like, man, maybe this guy blue like overdid it. Maybe this guy blue is going to be resting in the corner for the rest of this match. And all of a sudden she pops up and is just.

throwing fists in the corner 100 miles an hour and my heart swelled i was like yes this is freaking awesome she's still there there's the only that's the only reaction you can have when you see your own blood if you if you don't If you don't hulk up after getting bloodied like that, that's your opportunity. You have to get that primal thing out of you. If we ever have a reason...

I would love to do an episode of this show. If we ever got popular, I want to do an episode of this show. I think we're decently popular. We're popular, but if ever we get to the point where we can be like, when we get our 10 millionth listener or something... wild like that. We should invite Dustin Rhodes on the show and do an episode where we both gig. We're both bleeding just throughout the episode.

and just have those clips hanging around like just teach me how to gig teach me how to having a very straightforward conversation like could you imagine how much more significant you know your various like arguments over the past couple weeks would have gone just like WWE's ticket prices are out of control. I don't think you're really about this wrestling podcast life. I'm about it. See myself just covered.

And if you get really good at it, we can just do it on command, right? It's like anytime we're doing like a thing we want people to remember, it's like, okay, Brian, get ready. And then you're just like, duck down. and like shuts all your head and all of a sudden it's just like you just blood pouring down your face where you're just like

LA Knight deserves a push to the top of the curtain. Blood pouring down. You got to gig your mic. You got to go hit yourself with one of these. Oh, and then fall out of frame. pop back up like oh man shoemaker's busted open I know I've told this story before but I remember so distinctly as a kid watching a Macho Man Randy Savage match with a friend where he rolled under the ring and came back out bleeding

my buddy was like you know they they do that they go into the ring because they have like ketchup packets under there and yeah i'm sure they do have ketchup packets back there but that's not ketchup on their head no no no it makes total sense but when you're a kid the idea that you would be

that the big fake would be I'm putting on fake blood, but the reality is I'm hiding the fact that I'm actually making myself bleed. It's pretty, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty funny. It's pretty funny. What would you, what would like.

seven-year-old Kaz have said watching Blood and Guts last night? I'd have like several nightmares. I've had many wrestling-related nightmares over my lifetime. As an adult or as a kid? I think I had a... damn I think I had a wrestling related nightmare like pretty recently but like I've had them pretty off and on since I was like say five five years old up until I was like maybe like 17

And some distinct wrestling nightmares I remember having as a kid. A good majority of them included The Undertaker chasing me. And I can't escape him. And he would just pop up in certain places in the dark. Another majority of those... nightmares include those bloody crimson masks because the wrestling that I would watch, they wouldn't embellish that there's so much blood on TV. It'd be like, oh my god, they'd either stop it.

match or just you know especially on you know wwf television like heavy blood wasn't that much of a thing but when it did happen They would sell it like this guy was going to die. You're about to witness someone die.

in a wrestling ring today because they're bleeding from their forehead. Don't you know all the blood is in your forehead and once you lose it, you die? That's how my seven-year-old brain works. Oh, absolutely. There's blood. How's he going to keep the blood in the brain? He's going to die. help him. I would be like, oh man, I just watched Bret the Hitman Hart die on TV. That's how seven-year-old Kaz would probably think of this because it wouldn't compute to me. I would see violence and blood.

and think someone's going to die today. How am I going to sleep? Well, that's the stuff of nightmares for sure. We got... We call it good old nightmare fuel.

full gear is coming up in about 10 days um We'll obviously do a lot of previewing of that next week, and Survivor Series is the week after that. Survivor Series, sorry, War Games is the week after that. But just in terms of the way last night rolls forward.

We got Statlander and Monet at full gear for the Women's World Championship. Sure feels like that's going to go. That's either a stat win, but I think more or just a non-finish. There's no way. I don't think there's any way Mercedes is getting that belt after. the build we've had so far. And as big as their building stat, it just seems crazy. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. We mentioned the Hangman Adam Page with Samoa Joe is going to be in the steel cage.

Oh, FTR, who tried to humiliate Ricky the Dragon's steamboat in Greensboro, North Carolina last night, will be taking on Brodito for the tag belts. And... Obviously, Kenny Omega is going to be back next week to build with his match with the Jurassic Express against the Bucks and Josh Alexander. And then Mark Briscoe is finally getting a shot against Kyle Fletcher for the TNT Championship. Briscoe obviously was...

your mileage may vary on his actual... It was kind of ironic that he couldn't get in. He got beat up backstage by the Kyle's family, and so he wasn't going to be in the match, and that's a great, just timeless spot.

He runs in at the last second when everybody thought he was down and out and he's got all these weapons. Did anything ever come out of the toolbox or was that just for throwing in the ring one time? I don't even remember at this point. But it was ironic that he couldn't get in the match. and then proceeded to spend the entire time that he was in the match outside of the cage on the top. He was just never really doing anything that helpful. The most significant thing he did was trouble.

Kyle O'Reilly to hook some chairs to a rope for him. But Briscoe is obviously getting... Being on top of the cage is a huge space, a huge spotlight, both literally and figuratively. His match, he's been on the up and up and up and up. He finally gets the shot against Kyle Fletcher, which seems like the logical end point of this big push he's been getting. I would almost certainly pick him to win.

Except for the fact that the stipulation is that if he loses, he has to join the Don Callis family, which just seems like an even more perfect stipulate, like an even more perfect outcome to this. Just like, you know, just... briscoe in like an ill-fitting suit or like a or like a you know tuxedo t-shirt or something um being forced to be a member of this yo group it could be pretty fun it could be that could be pretty awesome um

Let's see. Since the last time we talked, we already talked about Raw, but we haven't talked about NXT. Oh, I mean... You mentioned it before. The last man standing match between NXT champ...

Ricky Saints and former champ Trick Williams ended with Saints. There were a couple of big spots sort of right in a row. I can make some similar complaints about pacing there, but I think it was hard to tell how some of those big moments were going to read. They tried to build and build and build, and they did a pretty good job of it.

just the ending felt a little bit like, wait, why isn't, why isn't trick? Why is Ricky already up and trick isn't up at all? Like the whole thing. I don't know. Anyway, but it was a great match. I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed that match.

But more importantly, perhaps... Did that feel send-offy for Trick Williams? Did that feel like it was rapture? Well, they were doing like thank you trick chants or whatever. It did feel send-offy. We know the Cena tournament's coming up. He feels like he's going to be one of these big surprises. Last Legend is in there in the main roster now. You know how they do with the... With the couples? The couples, yeah, for sure. You know, like them traveling together, so...

All signs point to it. All signs might be pointing to Trick Williams' call-up any day now. But we said the same thing about Obafemi and Bing Bang Boom, who came at the end of that match. Funny enough, surprisingly bigger Obafemi came back out. Yeah, how does he look bigger? I don't know. I don't know, but they were in their bag, the production truck out there, because there was like two moments.

where I'm just like, God, this is going to kick so much ass when he's on the main roster. Because the zoom out shadow of him just standing there, and then they showed the... they showed the visual of rookie saints like just like trying to pull himself back up to the ring and you just see like

You literally see the large shadow that Obafemi is casting behind him in that shot. And I'm like, that is one of the other shots. It was a rushed finish, but it made it somehow cooler. They actually aired on TV. I really enjoyed that. So, yeah, I think Trick Williams is main roster. Obafemi is down here for a little bit longer. I think that, well, that it...

It may be functional. Well, they're doing the curtain calls, I think. It feels like a curtain call. And there may be a functional component to it, too. It's like he counts as an NXT guy, so he gets to wrestle. Now he gets to wrestle on a... on Cena's last card, right? Because if every match is going to be NXT versus established talent...

It can't be like Miles Bourne or something. No offense to Miles Bourne. But also, could you be Obafemi just having been called up to the main roster? No, you have to still be NXT, I feel like. Well, who knows if they're going to abide by the rules, but by the letter of the law, and we know that John Cena is a big stickler for those details.

If Trick gets called up next week, he's in the tournament, he's no longer NXT. They still got to bill him as an NXT guy. Yes, I guess so. I guess you can work in the margins there. But that, I mean, it's interesting to see what Obafimi's going to do. There's a lot of very over people on the main roster. I mean, look at those people. I mean, what is the bar for...

bringing Obafimi up. Now, I know there's no limit to how many people you can have on the main roster or whatever, but what do you think? They have to say, if you and I both work for WWE and we're trying to decide if it's time to call him up, not on his own terms, based on is there room on the roster? And I say, do you think, is he a sure thing to be bigger than, like, who does he have to be bigger than for it to be, to definitely call him up? Hmm. I think the baseline is like...

Bronson Reed. Like, that's the baseline, I think. Okay, that's a good one. I was going to say, like, is it Rusev? Is it Rusev, Bronson Reed? You know, Damian Priest is obviously high. Yeah, yeah. But even, like... Priest, Rusev, Sheamus, those guys are like utility players as in like you could bring them up into a main title picture storyline and it doesn't miss a beat.

Bronson Reed right now is a main event adjacent guy. He is somebody who is always at the top of the show, opening the show, closing the show, but not necessarily challenging for the title. in the mix over there, right? Just as far as how it goes. And I think that is somewhere that Obafemi could strive to be at, especially given the way he's gotten over. Now, if you're not having him in the tournament, which, I mean...

Unless we hear something different, it doesn't seem like you will be. I feel like you got to get him over in the main roster the same way you got him over at NXT and have him do big, strong, scary shit to people for weeks and weeks and weeks. To let people know, like, this guy's freaking awesome. I mean, I don't know. He's been very, very, I don't want to say protected.

But they've been very deliberate with him in his whole time in NXT. It's not that he hasn't had any great matches. He can certainly have a great match. It's a little bit unclear to what degree Obafemi is ready to go do it on his own. Ready to just take everything.

Obviously, you can protect him on the main roster as well. But we don't need a Ryback thing with him where he just goes and beats up jobber tag teams. But you're going to need it for a little bit, though. You're going to need that for a little bit. That, to me, would not get him over. But that's kind of the open spot on WWE right now. If you look at an episode of Raw, every match that doesn't involve...

Tozawa or something like that. Seems like there's a shot at winning a match. It seems like a pretty fair, everyone's pretty paired off pretty equally. You know what I mean? Like the mid card roster. Intercontinental Champion. Obviously, John Cena being Intercontinental Champion changes it. But, you know, Dom, Penta, Rusev, all those guys kind of seem like they're on the same playing field. L.A. Knights, Jey Uso, Seth Rollins, Punk, Cody.

All in the same playing field. I think what they don't have right now is a guy that when his music comes out, they don't have a Braun Strowman. They don't have a Brock Lesnar. They don't have a Mark Henry. They don't have a guy where it's like, oh. Now we're going to see somebody die for the next five minutes just because, you know? And I think that's kind of where he fits in right now, just to start. Okay.

out there. You know what I mean? That's not my instinct, but I'll give it to you. It would be a thing. It would be something. Yeah. Obviously, I think everybody wants to see him just be treated like... I think everyone just loves NXT continuity and just seeing people who dominates from NXT dominate on their main roster and be like, yeah, why shouldn't he just go and bury Cody in a minute and become the world champion? That would be awesome. I agree.

But just like looking at... Where's the butt? No, no, just that's it. That's the end. That's it. That's the end. That's what it should be. But just looking at a macro level, I mean, like, you just look at where the card is and where a guy like him fits just right now, right this second. I would say at least if you're bringing him up before the end of the year, you can do that up until the Royal Rumble so that when the Rumble starts and he's in there...

He can have that showcase again that makes people realize, oh, he's going to be a main guy. He's going to be an official tissue dominant star for years to come. Obviously. I'm a big fan of doing crazy shit. Like, winning titles on your first night, dominating main event guys on your first night.

burying those dudes as rookies. I love all that, but practically speaking, that's probably the most logical thing that's going to happen with them. Agreed. I don't disagree. We got to get to Javon here. Yes.

Speaking of guys who are going to hopefully have a great run in the near future, wouldn't that be so sad if he got squashed by Gunther in like five seconds and we had to come back here with our tail between our legs on Monday? That is literally the worst thing. That is the worst thing WWE could do right now. Worse than high ticket prices. Worse than fucking...

A history of racism. Worse than Sheamus winning the Time Is Now tournament. The worst possible thing WWE can do right now is send Javon Evans out there to get... fucking Kofi like yeah that would be bad don't do it dog there's no way there's just no way there's no way they're gonna do that but I'm just saying I hope not if you okay let's just say this last thing on Obafemi

If Obafemi does debut, when he does debut on the main roster, wins a title on his first night, what title should he win? You got the book here. What title should he win?

He's going to win a title on his first night. The WWE Championship. Like, it's the one that makes the most sense, obviously. I mean, I think, you know, I think the U.S. title tournament is going to do what it do. And I think with Ilya Dragunov, he's not going to be a guy who gets like... blindsided but like I don't I can't think of the last time something like that actually happened like like somebody challenges the champion the champion accepts

And he kind of gets in over his head like, holy shit, this guy's actually the truth and beats him cleanly. One, two, three. I can't... Do you remember the last time? When's the last time that actually happened? I don't know. Brian, if you know, you can pop on. I have no idea. I think I'm gassing it too much right now. You know what I mean? I think I'm setting people up for disappointment for whatever they do with Obafemi on the main roster.

Oh yeah, it's not happening. I'm just saying like, but if he's going to win the title, you go straight to the top. You go straight for Cody and you make him overnight. You know what I mean? Like that's... If the goal is, if you've reached into the fishbowl of names and they're like, Obafemi needs to win a title on his first night, which is it? Why not win a WWE championship? Go for it. Just go for it all and just be like, holy shit.

Everything in this company just changed over the time. Would this service surprise like Diesel? Like if you was watching at that time... And all of a sudden you just turn. I would say Diesel was a close one. You know what I mean? But Diesel didn't even happen on TV. Yeah, it was in the garden. Turning on the house show. Superstars when they first showed it. Yeah, it was on Raw. No, it was on Superstar. It was like a Friday or Saturday night in the garden.

and then they showed it the next Saturday morning, and I'm like, wait, what? I remember because Brian, no, who was it? Was it Brian? Yeah, I think it was. Brian Curtis, because he would watch the pay-per-views, and I would watch Raw. He didn't always watch Raw. I remember him telling me at school, he's like, you'll never believe it. Or he called me, you'll never believe it.

What's his name? Who is the champ? Bob Backlund. Yeah, Bobby. He's like, you never believe it. Bob Backlund won the title. I was like, that's crazy. And then days later, I called him. I was like, you'll never believe it. Bob Backlund is not the champion anymore. Diesel's the new champion. It's crazy.

The other close, maybe Sheamus, when he beat Cena. Because I don't think he was a mid-card champion yet. Yeah. Nah, yeah. I mean, you know, was it a tables match? Yeah. It felt like an accident when I watched it. I was like, was that supposed to happen? Yeah, that's funny. Well, listen, hopefully, hopefully they've got a shocking one in store for our guy Obafimi. Anyway, we've got a big interview ready to go. We ready to do this? Oh, wait, we forgot. We forgot to mention the biggest news.

to come for wrestling this week. Why? Roman Reigns and CM Punk. Oh, God. And Zootopia 2. Zootopia 1 is a good movie. Classic. Yeah, very good film. Love Zootopia, yes. This is actually a really brilliant promotion. I don't know if this is Paradigm or who's doing this stuff, but it's really smart.

of them to if if to do these things as a package deal if that's how it's done you know if you're the agent just to roll in there and be like i can give you both of these roles and i promise a little subculture is going to come along for the ride yeah and i think they know that too like i don't think they're

I don't think they're not slick enough to be like, oh, if you're niched in to know who CM Punk is, like, yeah, that's a hell of a package deal for a Disney movie. A lot of CM Punk fans and Roman Reigns fans out there in the real world. The Rock is in that movie, too. Is he really? Yeah, The Rock's in Zooto.

2 also so that's what they should do one of those they should do a movie like that where it's just only wrestling talent like would it be significantly worse than like I love Jason Bateman or whoever's in that really like is that like come on I think we can just get by just do a lot of edits Hold on. Let me see if I can pull up the Zootopia 2 cast right now. Okay. Gazelle, obviously, voiced by Shakira.

Uh, you got my guy, uh, K who Kwan, who was from, uh, God damn, I forgot the movie he was in. That was fricking awesome. Oh, everything everywhere. All at once. Oh yeah. Of course. Uh, Macaulay Culkin, Quinta Brinson. Um, Idris Elba, Brenda Song. By the way, can we make an anime? This is this dad corner. Is it possible to make... an animated animal movie without having Idris Elba as a scary, loud-voiced bad guy? Like, does he just stay and live in the studio? Does he just live all the time?

Have you heard his voice? His voice is awesome. Of course, no, it's awesome. But it's just like... Why wouldn't you? And Idris Elba is never just like, dude, I've done Giant Lion three times this month. What can I do? Can you get me an antelope, please? Yo, hell of a cast, though, by the way. They got...

Brenda Song and Macaulay Culkin, one of my favorite couples. To keep the wrestling theme going, Macaulay's probably more gassed than anybody to be in the movie with Roman Reigns, CM Punk, and The Rock. The Rock is playing Zeke, an accident-prone animal. Wilmer Valarama. You got Josh Gad. You got Steve Irwin's son, Robert Owen. You got Ed Sheeran. Yvette Nicole Brown. Listen, Tommy Chong. You know what I mean?

You got Tommy Lister Jr. Zeus? Oh, my God. Deebo's in this? Yeah. Hell, yeah, man. Rest in peace, Deebo. That's crazy. He died in 2020, and he's listed. It's like Tupac. They still got tapes. They still got studio recordings. A Fennec Fox and Nick's former partner in crime who acts as undercover as a baby bunny, Lister died in 2020 and his family allowed Disney to use unused recordings from Zootopia for the sequel to fill in his lines. There is so much wrestling lore.

and Zootopia 2. This is the biggest wrestling movie ever made. That's crazy. It might be. You got WrestleMania headliners. Zeus, Roman Reigns, CM Punk. And The Rock. You got WrestleMania. You got wrestling superfan Macaulay Culkin. You got, uh, geez, Ezra's Elba, who starred alongside John Cena in those, you know, Fast and Furious movies. Yeah, we got, this is...

Lots of grabs happening in Zootopia 2. And if you haven't seen Zootopia 1, do yourself a favor. Go watch that joint, man. Classic. A little too deep for the kids, but the grown-ups will fuck with it.

Don't trust the man. That's the lesson I took away from that. That's the theme of this entire podcast. Don't trust the man. Alright, let's do it. We got the biggest future star. He's already a living legend, but in five years, he's the only wrestler we'll be talking about. No, we're not doing the five years thing. We're not doing it in five years. He is a star now. It'll take five years for him to get everybody else to quit just out of disappointment and dejection.

Anyway, let's do it. We got Javon Evans on the show right now. This episode is brought to you by Disney. This Thanksgiving, Judy Hopps and Nick Wild are back on the big screen. So grab your family and friends as Disney invites you to return to Zootopia for the furnominal movie event of the holiday season. See all your favorite Zootopia characters plus new favorites in the most pawesome movie of the year.

Don't miss Disney's Zootopia 2 when it hits theaters everywhere November 26th. Get your tickets now. All right, and joining us today is... friend of the show but somebody that we've been talking about for now it feels like years right on this podcast I mean listen oh yeah This Monday, biggest match of his life. Last time is now tournament taken on Gunther at Madison Square Garden at the 10 to 8, 21 years old. Ladies and gentlemen.

Jamon Evans, welcome to the Masked Man Show, brother. How you looking, man? Man, I'm good, man. Appreciate y'all for having me. Man, listen, we have spoken your crazes here so many times. I think the first time I met you... was at an Ashe wrestling show in North Carolina. Oh, it was, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know we passed by each other like a bunch of Wiley manias, but that was like the first time I actually like.

got to chop it up with you so like seeing it go from there to where you are now and just completely capture the imagination of everybody who's watched you man you've been on a hell of a run so So glad to see you get this opportunity this Monday at the Garden, man. How does it feel? Bro, first, thank y'all. You know what I mean? Bro, honestly, it's a blessing.

The garden, bro. I wasn't expecting to wrestle in the garden. You know what I mean? Like, let alone be in a tournament. You feel me? So, I think it's cool, bro. I found out that I was in a tournament that day. Like literally like a couple hours before the show. I'm like, oh, that's tough. And then I found out that it was in the garden. So I automatically got nervous.

The garden, it don't get bigger than the garden. I've been there a million times. I've worked out of there. It literally feels like a stage. It literally feels like... Insane. The spotlights are unbelievable. It's unmistakable. It is as tied into WWE history as any venue is. Hasn't sunk in yet that this is a massive opportunity for you.

Oh, for sure. Most definitely. For sure. Every time I think of it, I get a little, you know, get a little butterflies. You feel me? But like, like I said, it's an honor, bro. Like for them to pick me. It's cool. I don't even know, bro. I'm literally... So many emotions, bro. So many thoughts, bro. It's crazy. It's funny because me, like Kaz said, it feels like we've been talking about you forever.

Most of the time when we have these conversations where it's like, oh, we've been fans of this guy from this youngster from the get go. We look, we look down and they're 30 years old or whatever. It's. I feel like we've been talking about you for a minute, but you're, I mean, I remember saying like, there's this skinny kid in North Carolina who's just, he can do freaking anything, but you're only 21. Like when did, how old were you when you were first?

when you first got the feeling like this could be my job, like this could be my forever thing? Oh, man. I literally... First time I saw wrestling, it was a segment with Triple H and Sheamus. And Triple H... gave Sheamus a pentagree. God, you just aged me so crazy. I know, right? I'm so sorry, bro. But Triple H gave Sheamus a pentagree through the announce table. And I saw that and I was like, oh, this is...

fire, bro. This is tough. And then I started training at 13, but once I got the opportunity to train, I already knew it's wraps. I'm in this. You feel me? Yeah.

And so at 21 now, like, do you feel when you, when you've like, you've done some shots, some, some appearances on the main roster, you're going to be up at MSG. Like we said. Do you feel like a kid when you're amongst all those people that you grew up watching? Oh, yeah. But honestly, it's so hard not to, like, mark out, bro.

Like, these are, like, my coworkers now, you know? So I can be like, oh, what's up, bro? You know what I mean? How you doing? How you doing? But, like, in the inside, I really was like, bro, I remember watching you, like, wrestle this match. I remember this promo you said, bro. Like, you really made me mad when I was eight years old. Like, you know what I mean? But nah, it's really hard to hold that fan energy in.

especially when they are coworkers, you know what I mean? You know, I cover a lot of athletes and a lot of other mediums I've done. And, you know, there's always sort of like that time right before somebody who's either a rookie or coming into their second year. what people call their breakout year, right? And I think this year was definitely a breakout year for you. And I think it really started with you and Randy Orton.

Oh, for sure. First off, Randy Orton will be doing NXT. Not at all. And to work with you, first off, taking it back to that moment, and did you kind of see... that like, oh man, like not only am I here on the NXT, but like they have big plans for me. They really believe that I could, I could. be the face of this thing one day, especially with a guy like Randy Warren, who was like the last real young prodigy to come over and do sort of similar to what you're doing right now. Bro, that was like...

such a crazy opportunity, you know? Once I heard, well, first, they didn't tell me that I was wrestling Randy at all. I kind of just used my context clues, you feel me? How'd you find out? All right, so, I was talking to the writer, I'm like, yo, like...

I'm on the St. Louis show, you know what I mean? Which I got from him. He's like, yeah, we just got something in the works, but we'll just let you know. So I'm like, all right, cool, whatever. That same week, Randy Warren followed me on IG out of nowhere. So I'm like... I'm like, all right, that's cool. Randy Orton just followed me. But why would he follow me? You know what I mean? What's the purpose? And then before the match, the week of St. Louis, I believe.

Not the week of, I'm sorry, but the week before. Before the match, I'm like chilling or whatever, and I'm about to go out. And somebody's like, hey, Javon, you check your phone? And I was like, nah, it was like, oh. It just walked off. And I was like, bro, what do y'all? Like, calm down, bro. But after that, literally, I was like, something's going on, bro. And then they announced it right after the match with No Core, the catch crew. And I was like, okay, well, I knew it.

I knew. I knew. That moment, that opportunity was so... It was crazy. Just learning from him is insane. crazy opportunity i remember like being so nervous you know i mean like i was usually i'm an energetic person There's a moment in the match where I think, you know, I think you went for a, I forgot which finish you sort of went for, but it didn't go the way you sort of planned it. Was that a double cutter? Yeah. Yeah. I was so, I was so hot about that, bro. I was like, bro, I'm so sorry.

bro and he like like no man you're the effing man and i was like radio just called me the man bro i'm good i'm chilling now you know like all right i'm the man now i ain't got nothing don't be nervous about anymore

It's such a great opportunity, especially now. I can hit Randy up whenever. He'll be straight up honest with me. So that's a blessing. Okay, so from that moment, fast forward to... where you've been in the past several months. I would say from Bound for Glory with Leon Slater, which is arguably match of the year, to just these pop-ups with the US title challenge with SmackDown. Yeah. Like now it's kind of like every year fans take an inventory of NXT.

and be like all right like who's gonna be the guys that come out of there and make an immediate impact on the wrong smackdown and i think this is obviously the era of yourself trick williams over femi as like this is y'all nxt like this is y'all era yeah um how does that take me to the person that was nervous to wrestle randy orton to that guy now like where's that confidence level at uh for that that's when oh man

My confidence is up there. I'm not even going to lie. Not even in a cocky way. But it's just like I'm more confident than ever now. I know I can go in the ring and have a banger with anybody. I know I can get on the mic and...

have people feel some type of emotion. You know what I mean? At first, I was really nervous about, oh, what if I do this wrong? Or what if I say this the way they don't want me to say? You know what I mean? But now it's just like, bro, I'm literally having a great time. I'm having... so much fun. It's a great feeling. Like I said, I just be having a good time. You can tell. I just be having fun.

that's what makes that's what makes watching you so much fun because it's like not only do you do things that like make you know i've been watching wrestling for damn near my whole life and like right you know you you make me feel like Yeah, this is fun. This is supposed to be funny. It's supposed to be cool, fun shit like you do it every single week. So it's like it's it's it's really a pleasure watching you grow.

and continue to grow, especially this Monday. It's going to be unbelievable. I can't wait. I'm excited, bro. I'm excited. You said they didn't even tell you that you were going to wrestle Randy. I wonder, you know, whenever we watch NXT, like Kaz was saying this, it's like, there is a bunch of folks down there now. that would have been on the main roster already you know in a previous era right i mean it's just so there's so much talent in the company if you're in another sport

if you play football, if you play basketball, you know your timeline, right? You might, you might decide to go pro a year early or something like that, but do you, do they give you some concept of the timeline when you're working down there? Just like. We're looking at early 2026 for you on the main roster, or is it just keep your head down and wait for the moment to come? They literally just don't really tell you anything.

Honestly. Now, there are some people that are like, hey, you'll be in NXT for how many, you know, how long or whatever. But then, you know, we got you, whatever. But usually, you just grind to NXT and say, like, yo. We need you, OG. I'm like, all right, say less. Usually, that's what happens sometimes. I want to know about your relationship with Shawn Michaels, man. Obviously, he speaks.

the world of you. And I love if you ever watched this old Dave Chappelle bit on Chappelle Show where they have like the true self cam where like he puts a mirror up to the camera and he's like, that's what he looks like. i said this about carmelo hayes a couple of years ago but i really feel like about it with you i feel like with sean's number he probably sees like himself as like you you know yeah yeah cocky arrogant super athletic but like

you know, hanging with the big dogs. Tell me sort of the, you know, the mentorship and the coaching that Shawn Michaels has sort of put you through, especially as one of his star pupils, I would say. Yeah, man, honestly, it's a... I feel like our relationship is more like at first it was just like, you know, boss and, you know, worker, employee, whatever. But now I feel like it's more like a, like a mentor. Like I can go.

to Sean about whatever, you know what I mean? Outside of wrestling, you know, I can talk to him about life situations and he'll look out for me. And of course, like, you know, wrestling, he's completely honest with me. If he thinks a match was dog, just ass, he would tell me. He's like, yeah, that wasn't good. I'm like, I appreciate you, boss, man. You know what I mean?

This is the relation we have. And I feel like some people can't really take that, that honesty, but he knows that I'm, I'm here to work, bro. You know what I mean? I'm, I'm trying to be the best wrestler to ever do in the wrestling industry. So I think he understands that. So. I know that he's trying to get me to that goal. And the only way for me to accomplish that is honesty. So that's what he gives me. You want me to go? No, go ahead.

Yeah. So I've talked to Sean a couple of times, talked to a lot of the folks down there who've been in NXT. One of the things Sean always says is just like, it's weird for him to tell people to like tone it down.

because of his career, the career that he had, you know, like, don't be crazy. Like I was crazy, like whatever. But the one thing I've always wondered is like, there's so many good coaches down there, but, and who, Are there any coaches that give you advice on doing absolutely... like batshit crazy moves like there's nobody there's nobody that i know that works down there that can do what you or soul rucka or like you know there's so many others can do in the ring like how do you work out

How do you pitch a double cutter? Who do you talk to about that stuff? Usually, I'll just stand in the ring by myself and just think. Like, just literally standing in the middle of the ring just licking ropes or, like, licking the corner. I'm like, hmm, what's something I can do? But, honestly, it's either Sean that gives me, like, a transition idea or...

Matt Bloom, he'll walk up to me and be like, hmm, I'm playing video games with you right now, but what if you can do this? And I'm like, hmm, I can try it. Let's see what happens. You know? But everybody else, like, all the other coaches are just, they're chill. Like, they kind of just let me do whatever. You know what I mean? But, yeah, Javon got it. He'll do something. I bet.

Man, the reason why I'm such a big fan of you outside of what you do in the ring is that you are so authentically you, right? Like there's nobody that you can't, there's certain people that you can't write for. There's certain people you can't go into a bubble and be like, all right, we need the new young star. What's it going to be like? You just got to have it or you don't. I think that's a prevalent theme in all of wrestling.

People can create for you. People can write for you, whatever. But if you don't have that thing about you in you, it'll never come out. So follow up to that. I saw your interview with little Shea Jackson and those guys on their podcast.

you know um you know the one thing you're worried about is like change the way you talk or like you know people would you know not take you seriously because of how you were and you know i came on this podcast i was like brother don't change a thing you need to do like you're doing exactly what you need to do because I think you fill a need that I think WWE is sorely lacking which is like authentic young black you know

point of view and on top of it you do stuff in the ring that is just you know unheard of has anybody come to you since then about like just the way you've carried yourself and sort of either assured you be like hey like what you're doing is exactly what we need What's been the experience like just being yourself in this sort of industry? Well, it's literally they're letting me be myself and they have no problem with it. You know what I mean? The only thing that...

I have conversations with Sean about is, like, having the fans understand what I'm saying. You know what I mean? Not, like, words-wise, but literally, like, what's the word? Pronunciation, I think. Annunciation. Yeah. Annunciation. One of the big words. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, like, and bro, they're just so, they're so cool with letting me be me, you know?

And, like, I appreciate you, Cass, because, like, you know, we already had our separate conversation about it. But I was, especially on the indies, like, like I said, I've been training since 13. I was wrestling on the indies since 14 years old. So, like, playing promos was... or talking on the mic was never, like, one of my themes because, you know, I had a squeaky-ass voice. So I'm like, I wonder if, like, the...

my opponent or fans are going to take me and say, I'm going to beat this old man. You feel me? Nobody's going to believe a 14, 15-year-old kid. I'm going against a 30-year-old person. You know what I mean? I was never good, never focused on promos. I was always just like, all right, I'm just going to let my work do what I do. You feel me? And then I got signed to WWE. And I just appreciate them because they didn't let me just wrestle.

and not worry about promos. You know what I mean? They was like, no, like, you wrestle good, but we're going to make sure your promos are better. So, it's, bro, I'm just happy that they let me be me, for sure. Do they ever try to make you... Do they ever try to make you do a promo in character when you do promo school? Do you ever go down there and they're just like, hey, you're a vampire now or anything crazy?

Yeah, no, we have our drills sometimes, you know what I mean? Like, they'll tell us, you know, be like this character or they'll be like, hey, like, what's your favorite piece of candy? And then say it's like... Skittles. I'm like, all right, well, cut a promo about why Skittles is the best candy ever. And I'm like, okay. Well, hey, you know, I learned how to count money.

in school, but they didn't use any other candy, but what? Skittles. Boom. We all want to make money. Thanks to Skittles. We're about to be rich. You know what I mean? And they're like, hey, it's smooth. But yeah, we have our separate drills. Your relationship with Leon Slater, man. Obviously, you guys are going to go for the NXT Tag Championships as well right after.

Monday Night Raw, Gold Rush. And again, I mentioned it earlier, but that Bound for Glory match, probably my favorite match of the year so far. Thank you, thank you. I just talk me through that, man. Like I know, I know we made the joke where you collectively outside is like the UK version that you and vice versa and stuff like that, but like talk me through how that sort of came about in y'all relationship now and it's both, both sort of being.

on separate but similar paths in your career? Yeah, honestly, me and Leon are, we're just, we're dogs, man. You know what I mean? Like you said, we're on similar but separate paths. It's kind of like you're looking in the mirror. I think we're kind of like, like I said, we know that we can wrestle any and everybody. You know what I mean?

But also, I think we both understand that it's still like a competitive sport. You feel me? So like, I'll do something crazy and then it'll do something crazier. You know what I mean? So I'm like, all right. All right, you know, it's a competition, but, like, it makes us look like we're one of the best tag teams ever. You know what I mean? Yeah. But, no, bro, that's my dog, man, and I know he's...

He's planning to do bigger things in TNA. I'm planning to do bigger things in WWE. And if anything ever cross paths again, then we might have another banger one-on-one. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's freaking awesome.

Going back to this Monday, you got Gunther Madison Square Garden. First of all, which freaks you out more? Wrestling Gunther or wrestling at MSG? What's got your nerves going more? Man, wrestling at MSG, man. Go on. No, I was going to say, just go to the Gunther part of it, though. You've never wrestled him before, right? I don't think there's ever been any weird crossover in the Walter, like, 14-year-old Jay Malachi days. But, I mean...

He's one of those guys that it seems like you got to get up for. You know, number one, that it's probably going to hurt. And number two, that it's the absolute apex level of quality of wrestling. right? What's your headspace like going into that match? Bro, I'm excited. I'm nervous, of course, and of course when I get there, bro, I'm having so many butterflies and all, but I've literally watched...

Gunther for a very long time. I was watching Gunther on the, on the indies. You know what I mean? Like, cause I wanted to learn how to work against bigger people. So like, and he was like a great example of that. I'm excited, bro. I know it's going to be a hard fight, bro. We're going to be scrapping. I ain't backing down either. You know what I mean? You try me, I'm going to try you back, OG. Straight like that. You know what I mean?

But I'm so excited. Like I said, this is a great opportunity to showcase what I can do. And I know there's a lot of people that are looking at this fight kind of like David and Goliath. You feel me? But we know... how the David and Goliath story ended and I am planning on, you know, redoing that story.

so that was my next question man like i'm sure you're you're even though you're 21 years old you're kind of a historian of the game like i'm sure you're aware of the history of the manhattan center the one two three kid and razor yeah big sort of like you know we saw that match card a lot of people like oh we're happy for javon but man he's gonna get his ass kicked you know gunther's gonna be the last guy like i think there's that element of yo like

brackets are meant to be busted. Like, you know, one seeds go down all the time. Like, I know that's crossed your path, crossed your mind, right? Just being like, yeah, I'm not just in there just to have a great showing. For sure. I'm going in there to win this thing, right? Most definitely. Bro, I literally, like, thought to myself, like, dang, nothing might beat my ass. Yeah. But what if? What if I just catch him lacking one time?

You know what I mean? Like, bro, it's a reoccurring thought that's in my head for sure. You know what I mean? Like, just that what if, you know what I mean? And let me tell you something. the new york wrestling crowd right like it's up there with all of the wrestling crowds like the chicago's the toronto the uk's like especially the garden it is i already told people i'm like yo

Every time wrestling comes to MSG in New York, something like that, there's a match that I always make sure my non-wrestling friends, non-wrestling friends watch. It's the match that you show people. to get them interested in like if you haven't seen anything watch this right like yeah there's a huge responsibility of being that match that everyone's going to be like yeah we hit the main event but we're going to steal the goddamn show um

Has that crossed their mind yet as far as being able to be like, this is going to be a match that maybe the most people have ever watched me wrestle before and they're going to be behind you. It's going to be yours. It's going to be-

Yeah. A lot of shit happened there. Has that crossed your mind? Honestly, no. No, not at all. I think that's also kind of like a thought. that I haven't really, like, how can I say it? Like, I've only wrestled in New York one time, and that was in the theater. You feel me? So... Actually, twice, but the first time was on the Indies. But now that I'm walking into MSG, like you said, in an iconic arena, I just feel like that energy...

Especially for me, it's going to be insane. I'm excited. I can't wait to hear the reaction I get. I can't wait to just feel that energy. You know, there's a lot of people that say, oh, but I get chopped when Walter or, you know, Gunther chops Javon. Like, that's going to suck the air off the place. Honestly, I can't wait for that to happen, bro. I'm excited. It's about to be fire. It's about to be great. We're about to turn up.

You know, if there's anywhere, I mean, there's only like a couple of places in the whole world that have the sort of wrestling history venues, I mean, that MSG does. One of them is Greensboro Coliseum, which is where you were born, right? Did you grow up there too? Yes, sir.

Did you ever go to the Coliseum for like a concert or something like that and look around and you were like, oh, shit, there was a lot of wrestling here. Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure. They actually got like posters and stuff like Starrcade, I think.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a couple of circades there, yeah. Hanging up on walls. I mean, what's in the water with North Carolina wrestlers, though? It feels like y'all have a huge pool of talent from past... present the future like north carolina just seems to be a hotbed yeah of uh of wrestling talent what what is it out there that just makes everybody want to go and do this for a living bro we're we're different we're unique uh i think

we understand that, like, North Carolina is underrated, you know? So I feel like everybody in North Carolina knows that we got to put belts to ass. You feel me? Like... We got to make sure people know about us in North Carolina. Yeah, listen, that's totally true. Listen, I was watching a...

Bunch of Javon Evans videos, matches last night. Getting ready for this was like, want to call out some certain moments or some certain matches. You know what I got stuck on? Like the only thing I could think of when we started doing this today. Let me guess, let me guess, let me guess. oh wait was it was it uh was when i broke my jaw no no that's a good one that'd be a good one no it was an old kid black america match and i just saw and i was watching i was just like

This is crazy because for everyone listening to this, it doesn't know this was like your first gimmick. You were legitimately like 13 or 14, right? I mean, you were just like a little kid wrestling in like the Patriot as like the Patriot, right? And like a USA mask. And I'm watching this and I'm like, this is hilarious. This is hilarious. And about like two minutes in, I'm like, dude, this gimmick would work.

If there's an El Grande Americano or El Generico in the future for Javon Evans and it's Kid Black America, this could be the most over gimmick in the history of pro wrestling. Do you ever think about what you were like back then, man? Of course I do, bro. I was trash back then, man. I was horrible, you know? I was so dookie. Kid Black America is... If y'all don't know what Kid Black America is, he is a legend in the making, for sure. For sure.

They still have the Captain Black America 2. That's polished, man. Oh, my God. It's so funny. They put a mask on you. it's just a great it's just almost as if if you weren't if you weren't wrestling another kid it would be like are they trying to trick us into thinking he's not a kid like whatever but it was but but man you have you

Listen, I'm not going to say it was trash. You had a lot of confidence out there, but I think the confidence has carried over, right? I mean, has there ever been an unconfident point in your career? Oh, for sure. Of course. Of course, man. I think once I... Honestly, I think once I realized that there was people that was working harder than me, then that's when I started taking this way too... Not way too serious, but like...

to a whole different level. You know what I mean? Because at first, like, I was trying to be doing this, like, not so much for fun, but I was having too much fun when I wasn't supposed to. You know what I mean? Like... So, like... I was, I wouldn't say I was like cocky or anything, but like coming in being like so green, I was already telling people like I knew myself that I was like, yeah, I'm going to be signed.

You know what I mean? I'm going to be the best wrestler ever. But I wasn't like, at that time, I wasn't putting in the word to be the best wrestler ever. You know what I mean? So I was kind of just like telling people that, but like, then once I start seeing people...

trying to accomplish that same goal that I was trying to accomplish, then that's when I was like, okay. All right. Like, my boy Jackson Drake, like, that's my dog. You know what I mean? My champion. You know, he was doing his thing, and we was in a tag team, and, like, people start looking at...

him kind of like at a higher expectation and like, he's like, okay, like our names were the wrestling priorities. You know what I mean? So, but he was getting booed way more than I was because he was messing his ass.

So I was like, oh, I see what y'all doing. Say less. I took wrestling to a whole different grind mode, bro. You see what I mean? Man, it's great to hear that, but at the same time, it's like, yo, a lot of athletes that I've spoken to around this same time in their career. all have like a similar sort of story right like especially if they have like you know prodigal talent you know that there's always you don't get smart enough to know what you don't know yet

Right. Right. Right. And, and, and it's just, it's, it's, it's mind blowing hearing you say that because like, I, I've talked to so many guys who are 21, 22 years old before they became MVP, Superbowl, NBA championship. I was like, yeah, man, like I thought. I knew everything until XYZ, right? I think the best example I could give is like, you know, Wemby had a press conference like after his first game where he was basically like, I didn't want.

I didn't want my greatness to be taken advantage of anymore because I saw how fast it could be taken away from me. So I didn't want to take it for granted anymore. You know, did you, did you kind of feel something similar? You know, he had his blood clot on his shoulder. He had to sit out for a while. Now he's like, yeah. Then that's when we saw him go training with monks and KG and Jamal Crawford and all these people.

Was that sort of similar for you? When did that moment hit? Was it just seeing Jackson get booked more or was it like being around folks in WWE and seeing how they worked? Literally seeing Jackson... grind and I was just having fun and kind of like, you know, like I said, having too much fun. He was getting his name out there. That just took me to a whole different, you know.

whole different mentality. And also, um, once I realized that like, sorry to get a little, you know, religious, but like, once I realized that like, God can give you a gift, you know what I mean? And like, if you start playing around with it, then he can take it away just as fast as he gave it to you. You know, that's just like, that's something like, that's something scary, bro. I love wrestling, you know? But I didn't want to...

You feel me? Just playing around with something that God gifted me. Okay, last two questions I want to ask you. Up until now, what's been... Just a personal question. What's been your favorite match so far since you... up until this point? So, of course, I can say that Randy Orton won. You know what I mean? But, honestly, I feel like my favorite match was my second match on TV. It was me versus Ilya Dragunov for the NXT title.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of people don't remember that. But I feel like that was the first opportunity to show that I can hang with literally the... the big dog of NXT at that time. So I was literally about as, and we both came from the Indies. So it was so easy to just kind of like, I understood what he did. He knows what I do.

Yeah, that for sure is my favorite match. I feel like I can show that to anybody. And last question I want to ask before we wrap this up is, you know, there's a thirst. for like a new young black star on the main roster right like from fans from people i've known like it's been a conversation for a long time it's like all right we're gonna get somebody in there like greater you know

the women are doing that thing, Jake Cargo, Bianca Bella, and Naomi, obviously, but like the black male main roster star has been like a point of contention, a point of conversation for a long time. What do you think you bring to the table? to be that guy when the ball is handed to you? Man, whatever they need me to bring to the table, I got you. You know what I mean? Yeah, bro. Like I said, bro, I'm just myself.

I'm here to have fun. And if you need me to throw hands, I'll do that too. So, man, literally, if they need me, whatever position, whatever spot they need me to fill, I'm going to do 110%. to fill that spot. Man, I know this is one thing I love about doing this show is that we get to see the progression of a lot of great guys throughout their careers. So I know this is one of our first times kicking it on the show. I'm sure it won't be the last.

Congratulations. Good luck this Monday at the Garden. Wait, Cash, can I say something for a song? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go for it. Number one, I just want to say I appreciate y'all for having me on this show. Yeah. But we can't forget about NXT, son. You feel me? You can't even get my NAC. Gold Rush. Yeah, Gold Rush, man. Gold Rush, Tuesday, Tag Team Titles, Theater, and MSG. That's a great time. I hope you're out there, too.

I'll be there for both nights. Y'all don't have to carry me to the ring after that Gunther match, for sure. That's a bold schedule back-to-back, man. I can't believe it. Most definitely, man. I really appreciate y'all, man. This is cool. I wish and I hope that I can come back. Of course. You definitely will be back, man. We'll see you in New York next week. Continue success, and I'll catch you next time, brother.

Yes, sir. Thank y'all. That's it. That's the Masked Man show for today. Kaz, you want to get your plugs in on the way out? Yeah, man. New episode of 7 p.m. in Brooklyn is out right now with Ja Rule. We got a new one dropping this Monday with special guest Mike Epps. Make sure you check that out. That's going to be super funny.

My podcast, Say Less With Cass and Rosie, you can catch on the weekends, on your social pages, all that good stuff, especially on the YouTube. And last but certainly not least, Fourth Rope. We'll be at Wrestlecade November 28th in North Carolina. We're bringing the whole squad out. And, of course, we're going to come in with North Carolina legends.

The fourth rope tag team champions, Matt and Jeff, the Hardys. It's going to be special. Check out fourth rope, baby. November 28th. November 28th in Greensboro. The night before war games. Night before war games. There you go. That's cool. Well, thanks, Kaz. Thanks to Javon Evans. Thanks to our producer, Brian H. Waters.

And thanks to the Hoboken Public Library for letting me record. If Paz was a little quiet, that was why. That was why. I'm sorry, guys. But, you know, I was definitely a lot more excited than I sounded in there. I just want to put that disclaimer. you know we just want to talk to you the greatest i sounded like i was i sounded like i was on quiet store i was like oh man people are gonna be

frying me. As much as I bring this kid up. I was going to say, Brian, make sure you work on his level so it doesn't sound weird, but don't leave it weird. Don't leave it weird. Don't leave it weird. It doesn't make it be just like, Javon. It's creative. You're just a creep. Anyway.

Thanks to our producer, Brian H. Waters. Thanks to AP Ben Cruz. Thank you all for listening. Thanks to the United States Library System. Go support it and check out a book. Finn Balor's going to be okay. Who your mama? We'll see you back here. I speak humanoids. Peace. A message from McAfee. Wondering why the post office is texting you? Or why you owe thousands of dollars in toll fees? Because someone's trying to scam you.

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