Hello there, friends of the program. It's Tate Frazier, and it's officially that special time of the year where we go on a march through madness together for the 85th edition of the NCAA tournament. What makes March so special, you ask? Well, it's the unknown. It's the fact that this is basically Survivor on a basketball court on CBS without Jeff Probst. And no matter how much you prepare, you cannot predict this kind of chaos. And that is what we will be covering
on this podcast, One Shining Podcast, all the madness, all the David vs. Goliath personified. It's the best show in town. The ball is tipped. And here you are with us. Come listen and join us wherever you get your podcasts. Pro wrestling is cool once again. You guys were chanting, this is awesome. Yeah. Yeet. I don't like that. No. I had to do some research real quick. I have to. To finish the song
I'm in on this idea, but only if heard worldwide. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Ringer Wrestling Worldwide. Worldwide? proud member of the faction known as The Ringer Wrestling Show. My name is Ben Cruz, and I'm a producer here at The Ringer. With me, as always, are my tag team partners, senior editor at TheRinger.com, Cal Davenport, and of course, the...
Super producer here at The Ringer, Mr. Brian H. Waters. We are not yet joined by The Ringer Wrestling Show Travel Chief David Shoemaker, who will be conducting a run-in later in the show. Hollywood. I needed to change recently and it needed to pick me up for the week. Everything's getting busy. You know this. You're part of that mix. So I actually changed.
Shoemaker's name in my phone to something different. First and last name, now different in my phone whenever I receive a text message or whenever Shoes calls me. It's two words. What two words do you think those are? It can only be. Hello. Wrestling. That's right. He put that twang on it. I like we put that twang on it. Yeah, yeah. I enjoyed it. The Hello Wrestling remixes by Hollywood are becoming a thing. In my head, I hear a comment, man.
Okay. See, this is why we need to talk these out. I see the inspiration for it behind it. I'm glad we know your motivation. That's funny. What's Shoemaker drafted in our music draft? That's right. That is true. You are right. See, it all comes full circle. That's long-term storytelling right there. Facts. So, guys, we are officially under a month away.
from WrestleMania. 25 days away, I think, right? Because last night, they were 26 days away. So, yeah. 25 days away. It's too soon. Too soon. But we can officially say all of us will be there. We'll be reunited. The whole crew, us three, Shoes, Kaz will be out there. Again, we're starting this now. If you're in Vegas for Mania, if you see us, say what's up. It's going to be fun. It's going to be a lot of fun.
My question for you guys is, is there any extra juice for you during this road to WrestleMania? Just in general, not specifically this mania, but every time it gets under a month. Is there an extra pep in your step for these pods once we hit less than 30 days? Because I'm telling you, the casuals start coming out of the woodwork to talk to me just in everyday life. I'm just curious what it's like for you guys, Cal.
uh yeah it's uh i mean just for me i mean because we were on the road to wrestlemania like i'm i'm trying to make sure i'm not missing anything so it kind of means i'm watching everything but uh no yeah it just natural disasters getting you know nominations or you know again situations where like
seen in that little kid go viral or Travis Scott, like there's different, different parts of my, uh, my, my timeline kind of congregate this time of the year. Always has kind of always has. And, uh, I don't know. It's always, it's fun to see. It's fun to, uh, see that people are as hype as I am for Vegas and Mania in Vegas. Right. Hollywood, what's it like for you to wake up these days before either Masked Man show or worldwide?
Always time to be the nostalgia freak that I am. Oh, man. I love going back and watching the old WrestleManias. I think I may have told y'all last year on the road to WrestleMania 31. I didn't think it was going to be a good show. So I watched one through 30 in its entirety. We'll never do that again because I've seen all that I need to see. It was just, it was exhausting.
doing it. And I wasn't even like reviewing it or anything. It was just for my own pleasure. It's for you. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't have a problem reviewing that if that's what. powers and the ringer be said that would be one thing but you know um so that's what i usually do i'll just think of like you know randomizer you know mentally what am i feeling like do i feel like the attitude error do i feel like the golden error really regression
so i'll do that because like personally like firing up i like the nostalgia of it all the fun part it's fun to talk about what's gonna happen and even what's gonna happen i like to keep it kayfabe in this time of year yeah i'm not one no like look up i don't want to know the match order i don't like watching the set reveal
you don't know yeah i don't normally i learned that though the hard way because i sent it to the group text one year and he was brian was like i'm not looking at that i was like oh yeah my bad because you know what it was you you know the first one when we were all together was the greatest set, in my opinion. Which was Hollywood. And when we just walked in there. You would say that.
I know, I know. The look. And it's still, like, I'll sit back and watch all of them. That's probably, that is my favorite WrestleMania. You know, it had the perfect ending of the night. All hands up in the air, ones to the sky. But just, you know, and all of us being there, you know, it was so much fun. But just like when I walked in and it was like, oh, we here now. Yeah, it was different.
Yeah. It felt different. And then it's always fun. Like, you know, we're gamers here. Shout out to WW2K25. It's always fun seeing how they replicated on the video games. It is true. they nailed that down pretty close every like even 40 last year the set on uh ww2k25 for philly last year yeah it's pretty on point something interesting you said there before um we move on to raw stuff is
So when you go back and watch whatever WrestleMania gets fired up on your randomizer, obviously there's the nostalgia factor of it. How was the wrestling part of it for you? Because I was... I liken this to we. we put nostalgia, especially in wrestling, but we put nostalgia in general just on a pedestal, right? I think we do this in basketball too where we're like, you know, 90s basketball was fire and, you know, Jordan, LeBron, this, that, and the third, but...
Which is, again, we're entitled to those opinions. When you actually go back and watch 90s basketball games, not that fun. So I'm just wondering. Is it the same with wrestling for you, Hollywood? Now, like when you kind of go back and watch these older matches or these older shows, I should say. Yeah, it is, you know, sometimes I'll.
You know, some matches was like, but I also like the story. So not only am I fired. This is the reason why I don't watch it on YouTube is because YouTube just give you the match. I need the buildup. I want to see. Yep. my way playing before Austin versus rock. You know what I mean? Especially like if I'm sitting there with my daughter who, for instance,
when she first got into, so her first WrestleMania, we was actually talking about this yesterday. She's like, Dad, what's my first, like, when did I be really become a fan? I said, WrestleMania 37. I said, it was Sasha. And Bianca, you made a choice based on who you saw come out first, because I told you she couldn't rule for both of them. And that's your parenting right there. You know, so.
One of the things we did was one day we went back and watched WrestleMania 32, seeing the triple threat match with Sasha, Charlotte, and Becky. And I was like... but we got to watch the story. You got to watch the building. You have to understand. So that's the one thing I like to do and then go back and watch the matches.
The old school stuff is different because they didn't always give you a buildup. You know, it was just like, right. Well, here comes the music. You see the match graphic. And I feel like I remember being at WrestleMania 33. And every match had a promo. And it felt long. Because I feel like that was the first time they did that. And I remember, shout out to my boy Corey.
He was like, no, you have to do that for people who just watch once a year. For me, the wrestling holds off most of the time, you know, Hogan warrior, you know, I might fall asleep. sometimes but yeah sometimes i want to watch it to see the theatrics of it all i think it may depend on the worker like and sometimes you'd be like
Just the other day I watched, and I didn't watch this match in a while, but just the other day I threw on Savage Steamboat from Mania 3. And I mean, you think about, there's two... I mean, obviously it's two, two goats in the ring, you know, going in like one of our, I was thinking about arguably that may be like. one of the first great Wrestlemania matches like I was trying to think of a match before like a single match where people like nah that was that shit for like
going in there and actually having, trying to have a banger and having that banger. Um, but to, to look at it and the thing like for, for it to be however many pages on legal pad, just like. number or whatever move. It wasn't just like arm drag takeover. He was booking the interference. There was so much that was in there.
with people like that, if you go back to, like, you can go back and watch Ted DiBiase on a Survivor series and be like, goddamn, that man was working. Like, you know, you can see why some of these people were in their positions in regards to the gimmick. But yeah, I think it, uh... I can't say I'm going to go back and watch WrestleMania from 2000 and be like, yeah, I love the work going on and all this. But it varies to me.
it's rare that I'm like, like, I don't, I'll go back and watch those shows. And unless it's like, we'll talk about a little bit later, huh? Unless it's like them doldrums at WCW. Like, and even then there's always like one match. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's two people that can really go. So it just depends on how much of the rest of the show you have to suffer through. And you know, like, shout out to Cal, a couple years, you know, this year I...
so much going on. I've been able to put together mixtapes as far as the articles or matches go back and watch. And so those cases I will watch. But sometimes, you know, Ben, it's just the start and the finish. It's just I want to see the story. I want to see how it closes. Right. Well, I'm going to pitch you a social idea live on the show. Okay. On this road to mania, Hollywood recommends and it's just all mania matches that you recommend on this road. You know what I mean?
Maybe one a week, a couple a week. Just put people on game is what I'm saying. Save less. There it is. Production meeting over. I know. It's now on the pod. Everyone just got a sneak peek at what our meetings are like. Just whenever all of us are just chatting, we're like, you want to do this?
sure that's why people when we together they be like wait y'all really like y'all like each other that's how it is that a company meeting or whether it's a wrestle vegas summer slam they're like y'all always like y'all travel in packs too sweet right always Always, always. Again, we will be all together at Mania. 25 days. It's going to be... It's actually less than 25 days. We get up there the Wednesday before. So it's what? 22? 21 days? It's going to be...
It's kind of wild to think about here. But we got a lot to talk about. And we got to talk about Raw. And I think the jumping off point that I wanted to use to talk about... last night's episode of Raw or yesterday's episode of Raw, I should say. Yeah. And I'll start with you, Cal. Okay. Was this a good episode of Monday Night Raw? That's the simple question I'm going to start with.
then we can kind of go from there. I'm in the middle. I mean, I think there were a couple of matches that I thought were dope or a couple of segments I thought were dope. A lot of Raw's been kind of samey to me. It's the second time we've seen Cena, and I may be talking too much. Second time we've seen Cena and Cody start a show. We have these promos where it's like, yo, we like talking to y'all, but can't wait to see what we're going to do on Friday. Yeah. Yeah.
Bron Breakers closing the show like, you know, there's dope stuff in between that two and a half hours. But, you know, it's it's too. it's too similar for me to be like, yo, that was a great episode of Raw. Yeah, and I guess the reason why I wanted to start with that question is because I think... at least within the last couple weeks, I haven't had to ask myself that question. It's just been, oh, it's pretty good. It was varying levels of good. I actually watched it at night last night.
afterward it's like was that good and it was just it was that's why i was just little i was a little perturbed if you will and i think the sameness of it comparing it to last because i think coming off of last week I remember coming into the show, we were all on such a high. We were like, daytime wrestling, you know, Cena made that kid famous. We're all just like, this is nuts. And then we kind of got part two of it. So...
And I think this is where it really started to get to me on whether this episode is going to be good. Hollywood, I'm curious to see your thoughts on it. Where the hell is The Rock? He was such a big part of... this whole storyline jumping off between Cena and Cody. They made a t-shirt with him and Travis Scott on it and John Cena. I haven't seen this man. I know the UFL is back this week.
That can't be taking up enough of his time to at least be mentioned. He's not even being mentioned right now, Holly. What's going on? I have no idea because I'm wondering the same thing. Like you said, with John Cena... he turned he joined the rock so my whole thing was he sold out he gave the rock his soul it wasn't so much a him
Yeah, it was him turning on Cody Rhodes or turning on the people, but it was about him selling his soul. And usually in those cases, it's like, well, if you sell your soul... You're trying to convince people what you did is the right thing and maybe they should see your light. Cena is saying, no, I'm going to ruin your dreams. I'm going to ruin your lives because of everything you did to me. So it felt like he went in a whole different direction.
I don't know, 100%. Yeah, did he really sell his soul? And what is The Rock doing? So, yeah, I don't know. But it's time for the final boss to make another appearance here. Yeah. Yeah, to at least clarify what happened there. Because it was clearly planned, right? At Chamber, what they had going on. It was plan B, right? Yeah, to the Cena promo part of this, again, last week, cool. You've been waiting to get that off your chest for 25 years, right?
Again, we broke it down line by line. A lot of what he was saying, there was a lot of truth to it. A lot of truth there. This week, it just seemed like it seemed like an alien. being had like taken over his body and then was just you know spewing hatred towards everyone because that's what aliens do when they take over a host body right is they just give you the worst version of that person
I don't mean to cut you off, but why did you say aliens taking over? What brought you to that specifically? Was it just... him or was it something about his delivery or appearance or something? It was the rigidness of the delivery. Because last week, I feel like... It literally felt like we were watching this dude just unload 25 years of crap that he's had to take.
And there was just something so genuine about it. Again, we talked about it last week. There were certain people who didn't like it or whatever. But there was an authenticity to it, a level of it anyway. This week, it just seemed like one, a continuation of last week. But then two, there was just such a... I don't know. It was... It didn't seem like Cena. Whenever Cena's cut promos, even during his... Whatever.
20-plus year run as a babyface, there was always just this fluidity to how he delivered promos. And last night, there was just something missing. It felt like it was a beat off. And again, I think it was just the rigidity of it, which is...
that's where I was like, you know, I kind of thought of like that men in black thing where his face opens up and there's just an alien back there with tiny joysticks that's just making it run. You know what I mean? I was thinking more of like, uh, terminator 2 he's like sure and more evil the t1000 like he got he's i'm not saying he's cloned but like you know it's that version that's because i picked up on that too he had that stone like he had that look when rock
did the throat slash, but the way he was looking at the kids when he first stepped out and... He's not, I mean, he's obviously not moving as fast, but definitely the way he's delivering the, the way he's delivering his lines, you can tell like there's a certain beat. And I, I, I'm wondering if it's a situation where. Again, I think asking where The Rock is is a great question. Maybe until we get that, maybe we're starting to see the evolution of Cena.
into this you know whatever this whatever you want to call this heel version or whatever he is right now I'm not saying that's what it is but it definitely feels like he's deliberately speaking a certain way and deliberately
talking to the crowd in a certain way that's different from what we knew back then. And I, I get, maybe these are subtle tweaks to make his heel character feel more believable. That's interesting. I mean, If the full circle of this is just that Rock or Cena has been wearing an earpiece and Rock is just feeding him the lines to say, and that's why the rhythm is just so...
Because there's like, you know, a half second pause or delay in that transmission coming through. Rock sipping Taramana. Tell him you're going to ruin wrestling. Yeah, yeah. See that kid? That kid inside? The kid with the big cheeks. The one in the front. That one right there. Yeah, exactly. That's crazy. Pull that for social. Like Cena said, y'all saw the video. You knew what I'm talking about.
Yeah, yeah. WWE posted it. They posted it, exactly. I will say, when he brought up the Spinner title, that's when I... I will say, he did kind of land the plane. toward the back end of this promo, we were like, oh, there it is. Okay, and there's John. But the spinner title got brought up, and...
We got to talk about it because, first of all, Hollywood, you have the spinner title, right? Didn't you post it yesterday? Yeah, I posted it on the Ringer social. That's it right there? Yeah. Is that it on the right? Yeah, that's it right there. There you go. My time is now.
We need to talk about the spinner title. Yeah, let's go. He's right in that when this thing first came out, it's still spinning. It's still spinning. It's funny. It's still spinning. I remember when this thing first came out. The vitriol that was coming out about it was... It got to the point where it was hilarious. Hollywood, you're the belt aficionado of the group. Clearly, you have it. You're a fan on some level. Where were you then and then where are you on it now?
Good question. So, when it came out, 2005? Something like that. Whenever people had the spinning rims, yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't like it. Didn't like it at all. It was mad. There we go. How dare you take... That gorgeous title that had only been around for like four years, three years. Right.
the Undisputed Championship. And we just, you know, nice size and, you know, all the, you know, the crescents and all that. And they brings in this, make a spin. So, I didn't like it. But what really made me... dislike it, was the fact that they didn't change it. It was a spinner for a while. Yeah. I would have been fine. You remember the U.S. spinner? As soon as he lost it, they took it away. They gave us back the regular U.S. title. I was hoping that.
Edge was supposed to get his own championship, which he would be gifted later. But they gave him his version. So I didn't like it at all. Probably until the mid-2000s. It was like... okay. You know, and then I saw it in person. I was like, all right, this is cool. I ended up getting it. I got it in like 2021 and, you know, but by then it's, it's nostalgia. So, but yeah, when it first came out,
Didn't like it at all. And I hoped that he wouldn't do that with the big gold, which he didn't. Yeah. Well... Nervous about that. But that's my thing, because I was watching a couple of videos after this morning, people talking about the spinner. So I didn't remember too much of the nostalgia, but I forgot Brian H. Waters had the belt on his wall. Initially, my thought for Mania was Cena doesn't win.
When he mentioned that spinner, and I'm sitting there thinking about that damn spinner, just like the winged eagle that they brought out a couple months back. Watch The Rock. When you talk about where's The Rock, watch The Rock come in with the people's spinner. And she wins it at Mania or something like that. I want that to happen. I don't want to say me, but I really, really, really hope something like that happens. Let's go get a pop. Speaking of getting the pop.
The Ringer Wrestling Show, Tribal Chief David Shoemaker has joined us. No one saw the pop, but we popped on our face. Shoes, how you doing? To quote the greatest wrestler of all time, CM Punk. I work with children. That's right. You do actually. Spinner builds. Come on. I want it to happen.
I wish you all saw Shoemaker's face when he popped into the recording here. We were talking about the spinner belt. But I am going to force you to talk about it a little bit, Shoes, because I do want to know, where did you stand then and now with the spinner belt? Because Cena brought it up. It's a going concern. Definitely the most heelish thing Cena could possibly do is to defend the spinner belt, the greatness of the spinner belt.
Yep. It was terrible at the time, laughable at the time. I'm not even a big belt guy. Like I have belts that I prefer, but I'm not the sort of guy that sits around like, like, you know. having conversations about the winged eagle as you know Gunther is coming to the ring or whatever you know like that's just not my jam but and as the years have gone on as you know
It's become nostalgic and everything else. I have to say, I still fucking hate the spinner belt. The only thing the spinner belt is good for is like a watch. That's like a belt replica. Like if you want to wear the spinner belt as a bracelet, then that's fine by me. Maybe someone could feud over that in a future WWE storyline. But no, it's a terrible thing. But it's great for him. I mean...
Listen, I love John Cena. I love everything he's contributed to the business. And more than anything, love him as a heel right now. But the spinner belt is the perfect metaphor for John Cena's career. Because we all look at it now and we're like, oh, it's kind of cool in retrospect. Oh, there's all this nostalgia. Oh, it was sort of better than we thought. And then you go back and watch the tape and you're like, actually, Cena wasn't that much better than we thought.
soft spot for the Cena like golden age where he was like people like to talk about him like he was like Bret Hart 2.0 for five years when he really got his shit together nah it was still John Cena it was still just a spinny piece of Just jokey jewelry. I mean, whatever. I wouldn't wear a spinner necklace, so maybe I'm not the target audience. So you weren't wearing the Chris Webber Dada shoes, the spinners, when you stepped on them?
I was not. My point of reference for anything tennis shoe related ended when John Cena took off the Reebok pumps. The pumps? That's pretty much it for me. Now, actually, now occasionally you say, well, John Cena's current foot gear is probably closer to what I'm familiar with now. It's just like, hey, I'm the one guy who's on his couch just like, hey, are those all birds?
I know he did that colorway. No, but in all honesty, what was it? Was it Undertaker that came out in the hokas the one time? Apparently that really spiked hokas.
We have a friend whose wife works for Hoka's and they were like super excited about it. I don't like Hoka's. The brand name's too big for what that shoe is. But like... you know that's more in my genre i'll wear some like on clouds or whatever they're called like every now and then or whatever it's it does make me excited when i see somebody come out and just some like black and white
Nike low tops where I'm just like, I don't own those, but I could own those. That would totally work. Drew McIntyre told me about hulkers when he was wearing some J's at SummerSlam last year. I think Punk's rocked the hokas a couple times. Punk's rocked the hokas. Didn't he wear that on sneaker shopping? I feel like... I believe so. Maybe not. Maybe I'm remembering that incorrectly. I want to say he had a run-in or a beat-down with some hokas on. Sounds like Punk. Yeah, yeah.
That's very on brand. All right. The line of the night, though, which we need to talk about. Yep. And we're not going to do a breakdown like we did last week, which was fun. But this is the one line that stood out. I am going to ruin wrestling. Yeah! That is word for word what John Cena said last night during the back end of his promo. What does he mean by this? Because...
It was probably the most real thing he said during this promo last night. Damn. I don't know exactly what he means. I mean, I think they're, you know. The people that he's yet, well, I was going to say the people that he's most upset with. It seems like he's weirdly most upset with the people that have had his back the whole way through. Yeah, yeah.
But for the people that have been booing him the whole time, at least there's some consistency there. Maybe he respects that. I mean, but there's a lot of those booers who probably, you know, would probably argue that he's already ruined wrestling, you know? Right. But I don't know. I mean, like, there's a lot of ways you can ruin wrestling. I think by, you know, winning the title and retiring with the belt, that, you know, doesn't ruin.
wrestling it's happened before but that's you know uh maybe that's it um and you know i don't know maybe i have to think on this what do you guys what's your take on how he's going to ruin wrestling i I thought it was going to be winning at WrestleMania and then getting a spinner belt. I think at some point, the fact remains that him and Flair are still 16.
wins a piece. A lot of these numbers are falling and I really do feel like Cena's going to get that 17. For the way those crowds are booing and for the way the story's going. it would be cool to see a big, I don't want to say shock, but like, you know, a big heel win at a mania like that. I don't know if that's quote unquote ruining wrestling, but.
It feels like for somebody who's last year, he's on the way out. He's literally talking about retiring or leaving the game with the title in his hand. The story he's telling, that could be his endgame. I could see the Joker or whatever B-level Batman villain in the movie. They want to destroy the world or whatever. But then it ends up being... a beam that comes out of the sky. It's never as grandiose as they say, but he's still got to be the dastardly heel at some point.
Well, I mean, you could make the case. Go ahead, Ben. Sorry. No, I wanted to pick Hollywood's brain to kind of see what he was thinking when seeing the drop this line last night. I mean, I was trying to figure it out. I'm hoping it's not win this championship and put it in the trash bag. I mean, could do that too. Yeah. You know, talking about the spinner, but I really don't know. Like I can't.
You know, other than winning all the matches or not showing up as champion, that's what I think he would ruin wrestling if he wins the title and literally don't show up till SummerSlam. That would actively ruin wrestling, right? I mean, maybe it's as simple as like the best, like the one way you can actually ruin wrestling in some, you know, existential ways to just tell the truth.
And then he's out there telling the truth the first time, you know, if he keeps being honest with us, then I mean, the way he, how could he really ruin wrestling? He could win the title and be just like, guess what? Triple H made that plan. You want to see the group text? Yeah. Oh, boy. So I... Would that be if they released the signal correspondence of all the major players? The Rock, Paul Heyman, Triple H, Cena?
Would that be more of a national calamity than our national government leaking their defense structure? It'd be worse. You could argue it would be worse.
For some people, it would be worse. So when he said it, initially I was confused, but then, I don't know, for some reason my mind went to, and maybe this is a stretch, but I'm going to ruin wrestling. And again, I think it is centered around... winning the title at Mania and then kind of going off into the into the sunset with it and retiring with it but almost like in a in an almost an anti CM Punk way right like we always kind of look at that you know Punk's
end of run with wwe where he had the title pipe bomb comes about right and in a way that people kind of look back at that time as like a way that it almost reinvigorated wrestling right and this would be his way of kind of doing that but the opposite where he just again to all of your points winning the title and then just never bringing it back so that was just my read on it and again that that may be too far of a stretch and maybe i'm like reading too deep
in between the lines here but I mean if the punk connection has just always been there with him right so that's I think that's just the way I was looking at it but it was definitely wouldn't it ruin wrestling more to win the belt and then not retire and then just but still just not show up like pull the Roman Reigns Brock Lesnar except to like an even bigger extent and just be like no I'm still the champion I just but just never be there
He just cuts promos from movie sets. I could see that. It would be funny if he won the title and then immediately went to go film a movie. overseas or something. Everybody's cutting promos on him on TV, and then he just responds to the movie set, and he's just like, kind of cuts a promo, but then he's like, but I'm not going to show up for that, Matt. Almost like a combination of Roman, Brock.
and Moxley. Don't show the title and just don't be on TV. Just really double down. That would be wild. Then they have to make another title. Well, they already have one. I know. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You could just slot the Jey Uso's title for his forthcoming title into that spot. So I do want to talk about... this Jey Uso thing. Because some of my text messages I'm getting in wrestling spheres, they're getting a little toxic. And I just...
I want to talk it out with the three of you. Are they leaning into this internet narrative with Jay? It just kind of seems like it. Him slipping before the spear. I watched it a couple times. The first time, you're like, oh no, was that a botch? And then the rest of it, you're like, oh. No, I think they're leaning into the story. I went back and watched it again. Well, clearly they're leaning into it and they mean Jimmy brought it up. They're leaning into it to some extent.
It's the chicken and the egg question, really. Was the first botch organic and they decided to lean into it, or was the whole thing part of the storyline? I feel like the first botch was organic. Was the first botch the crossbody spear? Was that it? Or was there a... No, no, no. Was it the over-the-top rope? It was the dive over the top, yeah.
um i i think that was i think that was an authentic botch and then the crossbody spear thing was like they still finished the match with it right so it's like it's not like that you think if it was a deliberate botch they would have played into it a little more but maybe they're just trying to work us i don't know i i i think it it's the one i think the thing is is it actually it
kind of the botch in a way kind of solves a problem. You know, however many weeks of hell for Jey Uso, I mean, I'm not trying to be funny. That shit can be lame at a certain point. Like he wrestles another match and then Guther comes out and tries to choke him out. Again, these Rawls have been feeling similar. At the very least, they said, boom, he's really messing up in that ring. Let's get, we've got this combination and people wanted Joe Hendry for whatever reason. Let's get Jimmy out there.
Jimmy, they get to do it. They pull off a legit, a fake botch in the ring. They worked you with a botch. So they could have that conversation with Jimmy. But then what's really going on is Jimmy ends up slapping Gunther. He's going to be the sacrificial lamb to give Jay even more of a oomph to go out there and take that title. Like we're finally getting a story that.
makes sense i'm surprised jimmy's not doing much on smack and i'm almost surprised i didn't think about this sooner but it it solves a really big problem that that jimmy's promo alone backstage kind of sets the rest of this story in motion for Jay to have that drive to A, a rise of the occasion, stop with the botching and actually deliver the way people want him to deliver as a champion. And B, he's got enough.
inspiration to go out there and take the fight to Gunther because I'm assuming Gunther's about to give Jimmy hell. Shouts out to Jimmy. He's about to have to take one for the team. Yeah. One assumes. I mean, he could win. If you want to really make it interesting, he could be the brother that could actually get it done. There's a lot of stuff you could do here. Right.
I like Jimmy's involvement. I don't need like Jimmy and then, oh, Sammy's back in two weeks or something. It's just like the rolling procession of pep talks for Jay. Jay's out there and do an interview saying he's going to shock the world. And I was trying to actually think about it. Like what?
what would actually qualify as shocking the world? Because him winning would be the least shocking thing that could possibly happen. Maybe him having a five-star match and then winning would be the most shocking thing. But I feel like him... I feel like him just straight up losing the match would be the most weirdly fulfilling shock that we could get, right? It's like after all this build, all this build, all this build, Gunter beats him in a minute. Right, right. What about the...
That would shock the world. If Jay beats him in a minute. I feel like that would be surprising, but not like a good kind of shock, you know? Yeah. unless it's like storyline right unless it's like first of all you gotta put it exactly at the right place on the card like maybe it opens the show you know like whatever maybe it's just like Jimmy Jimmy
distracts the ref and Jay just straight up hits Gunther with a roll of quarters and pins him. That's the whole match. A roll of quarters. Knuckle dust. usually when that spot like when it happened with Brian Daniel Bryan and Sheamus it was supposed to be the baby face going over but that was when Sheamus wasn't it was kind of rejected The show opening squash, you mean? Yeah. That was incredible. The in-house reaction to that was...
borderline a problem. That was wild. I hated it. Our expectations at that point were relatively lower than they are now. And so... I think that if that happened now, that would be a much bigger issue. Oh, yeah. They also low-key ran that playbook with Seth and Brock. What was it, 35?
where, you know, Brock, I think they were supposed to be a semi-main. Brock didn't like their spot on the card, so they ended up going first. And then he hopped on the plane. Essentially, yeah. So there is precedent for it. Shoes, where are you on Jey Uso? I think something that you've said in the past which has really stuck with me was...
with these kind of builds towards championship matches. It's, you know, starting at the night after Mania or, you know, after someone wins the Rumble is a good way to go and that's kind of what we've had here with this Jay Gunther situation. And Gunther framed it from the top, right? 10 weeks of hell. I guess my question to you is, has it been too long? Has 10 weeks been too long for this specific feud? Yeah.
I think is the short answer. I mean, it was the wrong feud to kick off with the Rumble. If they had had... everybody's schedules had lined up, it would have made a lot more sense to do the Elimination Chamber ending at the Royal Rumble and have John Cena win the Rumble and then turn heel on Cody Rhodes right afterwards, whatever.
with with the rock there and then have jay winning the elimination chamber i mean listen there's there's you know, the good news and the bad news about Jay being like a guy who trips and falls in the ring and like can't get his act together because there's a, it doesn't help him, but there is a consistency to the idea that like he would be.
sort of a dodo because he won the Royal Rumble and chose the second tier title to go after he went with the guy that's on his show yeah like what in what world Do any of us make that choice? It's like, if you got a golden ticket for whatever job you want, it's like, Ben, you're the new CEO of The Ringer. Like, you're running the entire operation, but you can have whatever job, and you're just like, you know what?
I really have some unfinished business at the insurance company I worked at five years ago. I really could have shown them a thing or two. I'm going to go take that job. Come on. It was dumb. It was dumb. And they haven't given us anything. to make it feel like it's a bigger deal. Saying all this, I can say with utter confidence that if this had been, you know, Gunther's an old school wrestler. If this feud had been the headlining feud going into whatever big, you know...
Big basketball arena event at whatever territory in the South 30 years ago. Yes, it would have worked, you know, because all you need is to have somebody who's over like Jay and you need the announcers to keep telling you that he's an underdog. right and that you have the big bad like there's some very elemental stuff here that should be working i was very excited about the 10 weeks of hell they've turned out to be 10 weeks of sort of the same thing over and over again
I guess part of hell is monotony. It's been more for us than it has been for Jay. I like how you put that. David Shoemaker. I think so. But yeah, I mean, I just don't know. It's like, there's part of me that thinks, especially with Jimmy popping up last night, there's part of me that thinks that they got more planned for this. And there's going to be some more...
some more elements, some more surprises along the way. And by the time we get to WrestleMania, we'll be really hyped. But that doesn't do anything to answer your initial question, which is, is this too long of a time to spend with this build? And the answer is yes.
It's just too long. They've stretched it out too long. It would have almost been more interesting, and I'm talking about this on the fly. I don't have any great fantasy booking solution. It would have almost been more interesting if he had chosen to go after Cody. and got lured back into the match around this point in time by Gunter. Right, right.
you know it's like he's still facing Cody but then he still can't beat Gunther and he's like fuck it I'm reversing my decision I'm the Royal Rumble winner I can do that you know and then that would have had some stakes but like Or be convinced that he was taking the coward's way out even though it was a bigger payday. I don't know. I mean, here's the thing. Main event Jey Uso is a sort of ironic nickname.
Sure. He did main event that match with Roman Reigns and it was a big deal, but it said more about Roman Reigns and about the Bloodline storyline. You got this guy into the main event. Yeah, yeah. You know? He's so over. He's over in a way that almost nobody in professional wrestling has ever been. Right. But is he a main eventer? His nickname says yes.
Again, kind of ironically, and his place on the WrestleMania card says yes, I guess it remains to be seen. There's no doubt that we'll be, like, yeeting all over the place if he wins at WrestleMania. You gotta do it. Yeah. I don't think... Again, I think for all the reasons you said, especially if the ultimate question ends up being, can he be, like, can he ever achieve the moniker truly of main event Jey Uso? I think there's only one way to find out, and it's going to be...
give the yeet man the title, let everybody turn up. You could turn up at that Raw after Mania and the SmackDown after Mania. But then he's... The work's got to start. The work really has to start with him because it could be a three-month run. It could be a nine-month run with some twists and turns in there. It really depends on if they believe he could be the main event Yeet Man.
I mean, it looks like, to give him his credit, it looks like he's trying to work on integrating some new moves into his ring work. Like, he's listening to all the doubters out there. Right. Aside from the trips, he's looked good in the ring. I know we've joked about this, at least me and Kaz have, like, a hundred times, but you know how, like, you know, with the Super Bowl or whatever, they print the winner's shirts?
Yeah. Basketball for the winners and the losers. Yeah. And then they ship the loser shirts over like some underdeveloped country. And, you know, at some point you'll see. a picture of somebody as a kid, some kid with like an Allen Iverson NBA MVP shirt, you know, finals MVP shirt on or whatever. Right. Um, There may be something there with Jay. Have him lose at WrestleMania, but have the shirt still for sale like he won. The Yeet titles? A blurred Mania win shirt. Yeah.
But you know what, too? That could work for John Cena. If he loses and he's upset and him, you know, that face he made at the elimination chamber. I had these shirts made. Yup. and makes people buy them oh that'd be I love that they're still selling the Cena t-shirts kind of as if nothing has changed but it would be a really cool A-B test if they also just had just like the
like the Travis Scott style shirt where it's just like a black shirt with a black and white photo of full face. John's seen his face when he's about to turn heel with nothing else on it and see how many copies that sold. I, it's the, remember when Becky Lynch got arrested in Atlanta and then they sold the shirt with the mugshot? The reason I bought, I almost wanted to take, it just says Atlanta GA and there's no WWE, no nothing. It was the perfect.
shirt for that moment. I 100% agree. 100% agree. What's the pro wrestling shirt that you bought that you've never worn? Oh, it's a lot. You have a lot that you've never worn? I have this... this kind of agreement with my wife where if I see a wrestling shirt on sale, no matter where it is, if it's $10 or less, I just got to buy it. So I have a lot of questionable wrestling shirts. One being... A very tan-colored Roman Reigns shirt.
That was like $9. I've worn it one time maybe, but it is a terrible shirt. Are we talking like a Target shirt? No, the quality of the shirt is actually pretty good. And if it wasn't tan... And the colors with what Roman's wearing didn't clash so hard. He's wearing his black acknowledge me shirt with his red boots. It's all messed up. It might be the worst wrestling shirt I've ever purchased. I just saw it before I came out here to record.
And every time I see it, I'm just, I'm, I laugh. I wear it to like, wait, is he standing in front with like, there's a black square behind him with his logo. I'm looking at it right now. Yeah. Yeah. It's terrible from shoe palace. Yeah. It's yeah. Shoe palace. That's it. But also, It was $9. My wife was the one who was like, hey, is that Roman? I was like, well. You can buy one for $25 on eBay right now. Don't do it. You got a good deal. I'll sell you mine for $6.
just if anyone wants it. No, I'm good. I couldn't find it. The IC title is now before we wrap up on Raw stuff. Right. Is anyone else excited about this potential? Fatal 4-Way. I know it's another multi-man match for Mania, which that's just becoming the theme here. But Bron, Penta, Finn, and Dom? Bron, Penta, Finn, Dom. Kind of dig it.
I like it. Because Judgment Day feels like it's splintering, I feel like it's hard for me to believe that either of them would win. But I may also just be projecting that I won. penta to win you know what i mean like i would really like a penta win at mania for that title but uh um the the
The fact that Judgment Day seems to be breaking up feels like it may take precedence for those two. They may be off doing some other nonsense letting Penta go in. But I'm not booking Mania matches. I'm just saying that's what it feels like when I hear that foursome together. I would just want Dom to win for the chaos. It would be ill. It would be ill. I think he's got good odds in a four-person match. You see him yesterday with his overalls and no shirt underneath? That man is...
I mean, it's full of confidence. He would wear that Roman Reigns shirt, you know? Who would you put the belt on if it is those four? Actually, like real answer, Penta. Yeah. Yeah. Penta? Yeah. Just got to capitalize on... what he's got going on now i would say finn but he pins dom by like accident and then creates the dissemination
I don't think it's by accident. I think I would go Finn too. And I think it would be Finn. I think Dom and Finn take care of the other two guys at the end of the match. And then Finn's just like, you know, double birds to the sky and then just kills him. Well, I was going to say Finn's probably got the best chances of like that heel.
title win in a mania situation for I think for all those reasons I think I want Penta because I think the Penta moment would be ill but Finn makes way more sense especially Because now it would kind of solidify that he's on this singles run that they've kind of been building to. Yeah. You have to change the end of the Masked Man show, though, Shoes, if Finn wins.
No, Finn's really going to be okay. You've been telling us for a long time he's going to be okay. If he wins, he's definitely going to be okay. Can somebody who knows better than me, who's listening to this show, answer me? Does Pinta have more of a claim to the Sling Blade than Finn Balor or Seth Rollins or anybody else that's doing it around the world?
He was doing it for a long time. I was going to say, I feel like when I see him do it, I don't think of other people when I see them do it. Although I may have seen them do it more often. Who invented the Sling Blade? Was it Mescata Dorada or something like that? I don't know. And it's also funny because Penta will just throw in other people's moves. I think he did it last night. He kind of just, if something's going on or something's around, he has no problem.
adding a little move to his arsenal. He's just that fucking good. I'm sorry. I assume it's not Tanahashi because he uses it just only because he uses like a signature. Eddie Gilbert? Did Eddie Gilbert do it? Jeff Hardy did 1-0-2. I'll give Eddie Gilbert credit for whatever. I was a big Eddie Gilbert fan as a child. Yeah, it looks like it was a Lucha thing. Masato Yoshino is listed as the first person that everyone saw doing it, but he learned a lot in Mexico. Right.
I don't know. It's interesting. It's weird that that went from a movie that was relatively speaking a signature movie that was kind of interesting that Seth and Finn were doing it at the same time and now it's just like everybody and their mom does it. It's a very functional move. It's a great move. My creator wrestler in 2K has that as part of the repertoire, I should say. It's a great move. Aesthetically very pleasing. Alright.
It's now time for Cal's favorite segment. We touched on some nostalgia with the spinner belt. But it's now time for Nostalgia Freaks where we look back at something that happened this week in wrestling history. For this week's edition of Nostalgia Freaks, we're taking it back to March 26, 2001 for the final episode of WCW Monday Nitro. Subsequently, the first ever WWE WCW simulcast with Shane McMahon being named the kayfabe owner of WCW. Kayfabe?
I misunderstood this whole thing. Before we get fully into Nostalgia Freaks, can I just give a quick Nostalgia Freaks shout out to the Natural Disasters? New members of the WWE Hall of Fame has announced on TheRinger.com. Shout out. Yesterday, those guys were big and strong and freaking awesome.
earthquake literally took out earthquake was the reason i i wrote i wrote a letter in support of hawk hogan because he squashed him on the brother love show did you get a bracelet back for that i got a hulk rules bracelet back to that yeah yeah that was uh what You still have it? No, no. All of that stuff is long gone. I was hoping you'd say yes. No, no. You could have made some good money. I know. You said good riddance.
was it a friendship bracelet like with strings yeah it had like uh it was yellow and red it was yellow and in red it said hulk rules at the end it was like a couple of the strings that you would actually tie on there I don't remember if I wore it a lot, though. It looks like this is for sale on eBay for $25, but this could easily be a replica. See? You could have made $25, Cal. I could have made $25 from something I got, what, 35 years ago? Yeah. Shout out to your peoples.
The stamp. Facts. No, yeah, for real. Shout out to moms. Moms always indulge me. Alright, so final episode of Nitro. I'll start here. Hollywood. Do you remember watching this episode live? Pre-cable days. So no, but I remember going to school the next day and everybody talking about it. And I remember being confused because this isn't...
freshman year of high school. So, you know, we had the internet, but it wasn't something you just jumped on every single day. Sure. Yeah. 2001. Yeah. It's a, shout out to grandma. She recorded it. So I got the tape a few days later though. Oh, nice. Oh, there you go. Well, which one did she take? Grandma? Phenomenal. Did she tape Nitro or did she tape Raw? Raw. Raw was the only way, which ironically, she liked...
Nitro better because she liked that they got into the wrestling, but she recorded raw because that's primarily what I wanted. But if it was spring break or summertime and I was spending a night over there. That tape saw the channel changing like we did on the book of wrestling. Oh, sure, sure, sure. Okay. I love it. Shoes, do you remember watching this episode live? Oh, yeah. This was Must See TV. Which broadcast did you pick?
I was flipping channels. I was, I mean, at this point in time, you just, you're flipping like crazy. Yeah. It was, it was really just incredible. We all knew it was coming to some extent. Like we all knew that the deal had been made. Okay. And so we were all watching to see what happened. I mean, this was appointment television. And yeah, and the cool thing was they pulled a swerve. Like, this is one of the, I mean...
It makes sense in context. It's not that brilliant of an idea. I think after that, we saw so much McMahon family drama and WWE ownership drama that it sort of gets watered down in your memory. 100%. But it was absolutely perfect. And you could tell as a semi-adult when Vince started teeing up the sale that something was about to happen. yeah um and you know watching it now it feels pretty obvious but it was it was a shock they did it right and i think my biggest
I mean, it's such a huge moment. And I was a WWE guy. I mean, I watched both of them all the time, but like, I guess I was rooting for the WWF. They had the better, you know, had some, well.
Yeah, I'd say more of my favorite active wrestlers and whatever. I guess that was my slightly longer-term investment. So it was cool to see them win, but it's also maybe the only... end of a storyline in the history of professional wrestling like it's one of the most weirdly gratifying moments because you're actually seeing something that you like a story that you've cared about actually come to an end I'm sure there's you know
Hogan slamming Andre or like actually they fought for like nine months after that so never mind it's like everything in wrestling sort of in I mean sort of keeps going forever right you know the bigger a big finish is the more the more of a motivation they have to run it back But this was like something we've been caring about for so long. And, and there was a winner, you know, it was kind of crazy. Cal, where were you on it? March 26th, 2001.
It's funny because, I mean, I was not actively watching wrestling at the time, but because I had heard that this was going down, I flipped and I watched Nitro that night. um i was a big wcw guy for a while i i think towards the end i i I was not watching a lot of WCW towards the end just because I didn't like the show as much. So I was probably watching more Nitro, but I had to watch it. Like Shoemaker said, it was appointment television. This is literally the end of an era. The company that...
tried to take WWE out with that particular show is going to have McMahon on it. Like it's, it was, it was too weird. I was probably of a different mind because I will say I was also kind of done with it.
the mcmahon like i i wasn't into wrestling like that a lot so uh when i realized like oh this is gonna be for and it was what a week or week or so before mania like it was yeah it turned it ended up being about that drama so much i remember I probably watched a little bit of going into that invasion angle afterwards but I was like on the way out the door and watching wrestling at that time that McMahon stuff was not holding my interest like it like a lot of the other stuff used to right
I mean, so Shoes, you kind of alluded to this, that you fully understood what was going on. Because for me, I was similar to Brian, I think, in that I didn't really understand what was going on. Because this is one of those... moments that it was one of the last moments I feel like for me that I experienced organically without any dirt sheets right now it's obviously you know reading dirt sheets is just part of you know
the routine uh this and it became part of my routine shortly after this but this was just i remember kind of a genuine surprise and shocks like she seeing shane on with that nitro graphic in the lower third was insane at that time. So how did you come about it? shoes where you just fully understood what was going on. I just didn't see the stuff in the news that it was actually happening. It had somehow avoided me.
talk me through your process it all happened pretty quickly right i mean it happened like at least i think in reality it happened really quickly as far as the public was concerned it happened super quickly but you knew
I don't remember exactly the play-by-play, but you knew that by the time Raw came on, they would have to address it, right? You just didn't know exactly to what degree it would be part of the... show you didn't know if they'd keep on running i don't think we were clear on the wcw turner cable rights or whatever you know we didn't know if that was gonna they were gonna keep it on um
So yeah, we were just kind of watching to see what would be addressed and how it would be treated. I will say, I think even at the time, stylish as it was. Shane's turtleneck was more distracting than anything that like Sable ever wore on television. I could just feel him sweating wherever the hell he was. You could just like the uncomfortableness. I mean, I listen.
We all rocked some awkward ribbed turtlenecks back in the day, but that was such a choice. Maybe he should have pulled out a suit for that gimmick, you know, like I just bought the company. It was spring break in Florida. I mean, he was also like the antithesis of his pops. He could have just worn like, you know, a little short sleeve, you know. Yeah, just wear like a tank top and swim trunks, you know, spring break. Just be like.
the young kid not the weird stylish kid from up north um uh but yeah i mean it was it was not like i said not shocking we all knew that something was coming we knew the sale had taken place There's probably more shock in the TikTok of the story that's come out since then of how bizarre that sale was. But at the moment, it was just so cool. And we all love Shane.
This was the storyline I was 100% into. It didn't really go anywhere interesting, but that moment in time was just absolutely perfect. Cal, you were talking about this a little bit in our group chat earlier, but what's the most memorable part? of each show's card for you. I didn't go back and watch Raw, which is funny. I couldn't imagine what was on Raw. The most memorable, because it was, oddly enough, not only was it the night of champions where five titles were on the line, but...
because it was WCW, it was technically Spring Breakout 2001. I think Tony Schiavone mentioned it once in the intro. There was so much going on, but it was that Sugar Shane Helms, Chavo Guerrero. I've watched it. I've watched the Sting and Ric Flair match a lot. I've watched that Booker T, Scott Steiner match a lot. Shout out to Booker T. But I had forgotten. They were rapping for a little bit. It was good to see. I don't remember watching a lot of Shane Helms from...
WCW, so I've not seen him at that pace, and it was dope to see him and Chavo get to graps a little bit. There's a lot of bad about that Nitro show, too. I didn't like some of them. it was it's an odd show and and and i i like shouts out to stacy keebler i didn't care for that whole segment um
Yeah, it was weird just how they put the whole thing together. You're watching at the time thinking, oh, they must have made a bunch of really deliberate decisions about the parts of this show that... we care about that we the new regime cares about in retrospect it was like no they didn't care at all like they just like how can we piece a show together you know without getting something just objectively wrong or whatever you know like but yeah
The raw side isn't that great either. I'm looking at the card right now. There's no match over five minutes. Let's start there. The first two matches were one was 52 seconds. The next one was 28 seconds. So they clearly built it around the foundation of this announcement and they were just going to kind of ride that wave. So segment heavy. You saw a lot of Vince and Trish together on this show.
And Stone Bone, Brock, and Debra. Yep. Yes. Who main evented this card, by the way. They beat Taker and Kane in a tag match. So... Again, it feels like they kind of knew what they were doing where they were able to bury a lot of the wrestling with just kind of that announcement. And as Brian said, all the segments, but it was a- I'll never forget watching this live. It's one of the last ones I do remember watching and being genuinely shocked and surprised. So it'll always hold.
some sort of special moment in my brain at least that it was you know it's one of the last that I experienced wrestling in that way it's also funny when you hear the people tell about how they were people behind the scenes talk about this show there was all like the you know legal aspects to it the business aspects to it but how much the live broadcast was a huge like technological issue for them too talking about conversations we'll never have again in life you know
Like, you know, you could broadcast live from your phone anywhere, anytime, you know, like whatever. But that was just like, yeah, huge issues getting Shane on the screen. We're getting the, you know, the two screens to simulcast the different places. It looked dope, though, I will say. I mean, to have it play off, again, the way the story culminated, it was awesome to be able to have a camera in Cleveland seeing Vince react to Shane in Florida.
I wouldn't even, you wouldn't normally think about, you know, how much of a nightmare that was, especially with 20 some odd years ago, but they pulled it off and I think it came out looking pretty solid. yeah i agree and by and and the name on the contract does say mcmahon pregnant pause is one of the greatest lines of that whole yeah you know like you knew exactly where it was going but it was just so perfect that how does that like because he he just showed up
Like there's this deal that's been going and I mean, did he lie? He was like, oh, my dad's in Cleveland, but I got you. I think the implication was that he made a better offer, right? So it was his money. Yeah, or sure, sure. That's where my brain always went at a certain point. I could see Vince buying a company. Shane's got enough bread to buy a company? As a child, he wasn't thinking that because remember, just two years ago...
They offered $100,000 from Shane McMahon's trust fund if you eliminated Stone Cold Steve Austin from the Royal Rumble. So you just knew, like, me, I was like, oh, Shane's got a lot of money. Vince McMahon's being arrogant. Oh, I'm going to sign the contract at my greatest creation, WrestleMania. I'll do it there and be a big thing after I beat my son Shane. Shane's like, nope. I signed it first. Yeah.
Maybe that's why Ripley thinks she can just hop into this mania match with Bianca and Io. She's like, we're a contract in wrestling, really. Just write your name on a piece of paper. It's so funny. Like my daughter, I said, oh, it's going to be a contract signing. Because when our Adam Pierce goes, she runs to the TV. Dad, you know what a contract signing means? It's going to be a fight. It's going to be a fight. See, look at you. Raising them. Yeah, you're teaching her well.
So wait, what's happening next week? We get the EO-Rio Ripley, sorry, the Ripley-Sky rematch. Yeah. With Bianca as the ref. Which will end in some sort of hijink that puts them all together. Right. Unfortunately.
The way that they were interacting, I want to see the three of them have a triple threat match. I think that will be a... this isn't crazy but like I that'll probably be the better wrestled triple threat between that and the like the Roman Seth punk stuff story wise I think they're gonna nail it In ring, what I saw on Raw yesterday, no, that feels like that's going to be a fun match. They look like they were practicing spots. They definitely did. It just seems so...
Like, okay, you do this, you do that. Yeah. You know, it's like, okay, I get it. You know, I think we write in ring. Yeah. But I think the other one's going to be a fight. Which one of them broke out the savage legal pad? Like how many, how many different steps were there in that segment's interaction? Who calls that match? Yeah, that's really interesting. Maybe we should say it's a positive that they're not working out spots, that they're doing these moves on free TV.
And that means they're going to have to do something even crazier when it comes time for WrestleMania. And it feels like they're actually thinking about it. Yeah. What? There it is. You heard the drop. It is time for They Said What? And for today's edition of They Said What, we're going straight to the Ringer Wrestling Worldwide Hotline. Hollywood, tell us about the first caller.
The first caller is going to be a very familiar voice. Let's play it. All right. This is Bartlett from Philadelphia. You may have heard of me. Yeah, I'm calling in with a hot take. I'm sitting here working on a portrait of possibly John Cena, and I'm just sitting thinking, you guys and everybody else has it wrong, and Cena has it right. Let me tell you why.
We've all been asking for this heel turn for years. For years, we've been wanting to, come on, John, give us the anger. Give us the heel side. Give us the juice. And what do we do when we get it? We psychoanalyze it. We break it down. We talk about, it may be good. It may not be good. Are you kidding me? We got to just appreciate what we're getting.
This was supposed to never happen. I don't even think it was the plan to begin with. But here we are, and we should just enjoy it. Yeah, that's the hot take. Love you guys. I love listening to the analysis, of course. and worldwide. Nice. That's a great worldwide. That was Jonathan Bartlett, the part of the art department here at the ringer.com. And also more importantly, for the purpose of this podcast, the guy that does all those amazing.
paintings of pro wrestlers that you can buy through WWE and he's done them for the toy company of the video games like he does all kinds of great stuff What's his take, though? It's to appreciate this heel thing, just for what it is. Oh, I appreciate it. It's fantastic. I think he's absolutely right. Yes, yes, yes.
I liked the promo from last night. I think there were things that I would improve, but no, so far... The first night I thought was perfect. Last night I thought it was zero, solid B. The thing I think I disliked more... I don't know why, because I don't have a better answer, but the thing that bugged me about last night was the walk away at the end. It was like, I just wanted like a...
I wanted some, something different, something that felt a little bit fresh, not just the standard heel. Like I'm going to walk away. Right. Right. Especially after Cody. tore his shirt open into like Saturday Night Fever form. Yeah, I feel like he found his legs with the promo toward the back end. The first one just felt like a continuation of last week. But he was able to find...
I'm a different path toward the end and that could kind of keep this thing going. So it was a we're with you, though, Bartlett. We understand. And thanks for. Everything that you've, uh, you've created for us, man. You're the best. All right. I hope he kind of, what he should do. I mean, the, the, the thing that always rings in my head about both scene and promos is the, you're making this too easy. Right.
And that's, I think, at the end of the day, for all of his grievances, the real core of it. If they're smart, that will evolve into basically just like a thank you, right? Like he and Alcina just thanking the crowd for the booze, you know? Right. And that's what's going to fuel him onto whatever he does at WrestleMania. By the way, I don't know if you guys talked about this before I got here. Is The Rock still around? That's what we were wondering. We were trying to figure it out.
On his schedule this week, I know he has the UFL is back for season two. So that's taking up some of his bandwidth. Jesus Christ. We have no idea where the hell he is. I'm not saying he needs to be here. Right. I'm just saying it'd be nice if somebody referenced him. Yeah. If he wasn't in the room. That's what we were talking about earlier. We just don't know. We're trying to figure it out. Okay. We'll put out the bat signal for him. The rock signal.
Giant Brahma bull in the sky. Can we do a plane? He must have a private plane. The people have the plane trackers for Elon Musk and Taylor Swift. You can do it. Track the rock, I guess. Don't do that. Yeah, that's weird behavior. Don't be weird. I know we got another caller, Hollywood. Who do we got? We got another call going down to my guy, T5.
Worldwide? This is Tobias, or as Brian H. Waters knows me and my handle, T33000. The comp I have for Bianca J. Naomi dynamic is from that Fat Man story, Under the Red Hood.
Bianca's Batman. Naomi is a Joker. Remember, the Joker always says it only takes one bad day for you to snap and lose it. And Jay is actually the second Robin, a.k.a. Jason Todd. And y'all remember... the joker kidnapped jason todd tortured him and ended up taking him out and bianca who's batman feel like that's a big failure because he let her down
Naomi snapped because she was jealous and still wants Bianca approval like the Joker still wants Batman to laugh like we joined at the hip. But flip it now. Jade got her getting vengeance against Naomi. But she's not cool with Bianca because she forgives Bianca that she could prevent what happened to her. But it's ultimately going to come out that she resents the fact when Bianca, once she found out Naomi.
took out jade then why bianca didn't beat down they on me and but bianca could say look you didn't respond to any of my calls and texts after i sat in the hospital with you so i had to move on and that other part is jay gonna be upset that bianca moved on so quickly so i think
that Naomi's going to be Jade at Mania because the Metagirls may show up then that night. Jade gets whatever she was Naomi, but I think it ends up going to be Jade Bianca probably in the summer because... of jay resenting bianca for replacing her with naomi and not beating down naomi once bianca found out the news what do you guys think about that and worldwide Shut up, T5. I do agree. Before Jade had that conversation with Kathy Kelly, I believe it was on SmackDown.
turned into the Jade versus Liv match. Jade was talking about how she was pissed at Naomi but then upset because Bianca was still kind of kiki-ing with her or whatever. She was still kind of what? kiki-ing, like, you know, there's people laughing and whatnot. They kiki-ing with each other. It's just a woman. Anyway, they were cool. They were cool. It wasn't like, like you said, you know, she wasn't, it wasn't on sight. She wasn't beating down Jade's ass.
when she saw it. But I think because of that, I don't be surprised. If that turns into that triple threat or whatever that match that Bianca and Io have at Mania, my assumption was automatically...
Jade would be getting involved in there and that would be turning into whatever Bianca would be. I don't know if that's going to happen. I hope that doesn't happen because I do want Bianca to win, but I feel like that Bianca Jade is going to be like right around the corner. I don't know how it can't be.
Yeah, I feel like they've set it up so that all three of them legitimately have some sort of beef with each other, or at least a legitimate reason for why in the future they're going to have a feud. So, you know, Jade and Bianca included, right? Obviously the Jade and Naomi one that's built in that we understand that's, that's pretty straight up, right? She attacked her. So, but the.
The tension between... And they've been building it on social media too, right? They've been going back and forth on Twitter, I believe. Big tweet too. Bianca and Jade. So they're planting those seeds, which I think is really smart. I do like the Batman Under the Red Hood connection. That was a deep cut. There's a lot going on there. Great film, by the way.
So I really appreciated that. Shoes, any final thoughts on this Bianca Jade Naomi situation before we recall it? My guess is, although a lot... I don't want to feed into the weird Jade rumor mill that's going on. It wouldn't shock me if Jade and Bianca... We're just sort of on ice for the foreseeable future. We'll see. It's something we need to come back to in a little while.
as much as cool as it is i mean it's sort of like a mini bloodline thing right it's like now but you know the bloodline thing was so cool for so long and now what's interesting is the world that is exists outside of the bloodline for roman reigns right and i think that j i think that bianca
got all the mileage she's going to get out of that and now needs to experience the rest of the world. I don't think that she's been... I mean, her promo with Naomi right after Elimination Chamber was... probably her best mic work in a while yes uh she's been sort of in the position of having to carry the the conversations and a lot of this stuff with io and ria yeah um
but has not been her best mic work. But I think it's a good position for her to be in. I think she's in a position to really evolve. And I think the more work she does with those two... I think the most important thing about this really has nothing to do with her. It's establishing Io is like co-equal with those three, but in a bigger picture, establishing those three is like the top three wrestlers on Raw or anywhere else. And I think that's a story that...
is just endlessly renewable you know like every time that Kaz would talk about just doing Bianca versus Rhea at Wrestlemania and these are the two wrestlers of the generation I get it but it's sort of like no matter how many
times we've seen that match and I don't even know the number I feel like it's too many already and even though it's like three you know like whatever having three people involved really just kind of keeps it perpetually fresh you know it's just it's I think it's there's a million ways you could do it I feel like they'll get back to it. I'm much more invested, I should say, in Naomi and Jade than I expected to be.
Oh, indeed. And again, I think you, like you said earlier, some of that credit is to Bianca and how she was able to kind of guide how that story went. Well, I think just actually X-ing her out of it and having, on the one hand, their feud being more kind of straightforward, but also there is a sort of nuance and like, it's not Bianca.
sitting in the corner crying over like every single segment, just like stop fighting. You know, there's, it's kind of, I don't know. It, it, it feels cool. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well. A big shout out to everyone who left us a voicemail where they said what takes. We can't get to all of them. We get to as many as we can. Keep the description of this episode with a number to call in. Drop your take. We'll do our best to get them on the show. Guys.
That is how you do Tuesday. Be sure to check out the Masked Man Show with David Shoemaker and Kaz on Mondays and Thursdays. If you're not already, be sure to follow us, subscribe, and hit us with those five-star ratings here on... ringer wrestling show feed cal brian tell people they can find you on the socials once again actually before i do that oliver lee bateman shouts out for writing that uh natural disasters oh yeah amazing
Go check that out on TheBringer.com. I'm at Cal on Twitter and Blue Sky at CalDub on Instagram threads and TikTok. But it's not about me. Hollywood, where can they find you and where can they find the squad? You can find me at Brian H. Waters on TikTok, Axe Threads, Instagram, and Blue Sky. More importantly, Ringer Wrestling on all those social media platforms coming this week. As you heard earlier, it's been said.
Hollywood recommends. So, recommends a WrestleMania match. Shoes, Press Box, what else you got going on? Press Box back next week. Masked Man Show on Thursday. I'm going to try to write something before the week's out. If Cal will let me. Hey, just hit me up. You know the drill. Check out theringer.com.
There we go. Thank you very much to Brian Hollywood Waters for producing this episode, making us sound better than we should. Gentlemen, thank you as always for the Graps chat. Everyone else, we will catch you next week. Worldwide!