Folks, it's J Kyle Mann from The Ringer. And as always, basketball is so freaking, freaking good. It's so good, in fact, that The Ringer of the best and the brightest prospects in the 2025 NBA draft class. From Cooper Flagg to Dylan Harper to BJ Edgecombe and more. Tap in with me on the Ringer NBA Draft Show every Wednesday and make sure that you follow, subscribe, and hit us. Cold open question of the week. Shoes. Yeah?
So I know I rarely do the cold open question of the week, but I felt like for somebody as chronically offline as you, somebody with a flip phone, probably the most off the grid person I know. Yep. There was only one wrestling question I had to ask you. pertaining to this week. Okay. On social media, a question has taken over my timeline like nothing I've ever seen before, and I gotta know your take.
I will say the edited version of the tweet just so we can have a great conversation about it. Dave, do you think it's possible for 100 humans to beat one gorilla? I mean, my gut reaction is yes, but the fact that you're asking me makes me think the answer should be no. Can the humans work together or do they have to attack him ninja style? Yes, this is... I'm assuming we could...
It's not like the Royal Rumble, right? It's not like one-on-one. We could all 100 of them gang up on this one gorilla. But no weapons, like barehanded, and you could pick any 100 humans. All right? Okay. Now, easily, right? Like, you would think, okay, 100 people. We could take out one silverback gorilla. But you got to think. Those first 10 guys that go at the gorilla might scare off the next 40, right? So...
I don't know. I've seen a lot of Silverback Gorilla videos on my timeline since this question. has uh arisen how many have you seen way too much way too much for me to sleep well at night and it just let me know the horror of what a silverback gorilla really looks like right like there's No way, you know, like, so, so wait, just to be, just to be clear. This has happened? They tried to have 100 guys fight a gorilla?
This hasn't happened, Dave. This is just the silliness of social media and the random hypothetical questions of, you know, how. how our brains can work together and they cannot use weapons can they use tools just to be clear could they use a net you know what i think i think tools are fine right i think i think the big thing was like no guns you know no real deal like weapons i think we could like subdue
But I don't know, man. I mean, if 20 dudes win at the same time, I feel like they could restrain him. Right? 20? They could hold him down. 20 guys at one time? Do you know how strong a silverback gorilla is, Dave? Those first, you got to understand. My only belief in the human race in beating this one gorilla is if the gorilla somehow gets tired at some point. Because those first 20, I think those first 20 get just destroyed.
mutilated like easily easily yeah i think like the next wave maybe the 30 or 40 like figure out okay like five to a limb you know like take each finger try to break a limb here or there just try to slow them down And even those 30 or 40 are probably going to have some stories to tell to their great kids. But I think by the time we get to like the 70 or 80 humans left.
that aren't mangled and mauled, I think then and only then you could probably take down that silverback gorilla. But it's going to take... Some people would have to make sacrifices. Oh, sacrifices is being generous. You're talking about at least 30 or 40 just maulings that you've never seen before in your life. Now, I say all that to say, you got to pick at least 10 humans. that you want to take down this gorilla. Let's pick 10 wrestlers to captain.
Pro wrestlers. See, I was going to go with the entire Gracie family because they are all... Remember those early UFCs when it would be just like Hoist Gracie versus a 400-pound man and he would just take him out?
Oh, absolutely. I think that's the Brazilian jiu-jitsu is really going to be key in this. But if we have to use wrestler... I immediately go to guys who have been compared to gorillas, you know, just like conversationally, like Ryback, he's a gorilla looking guy, you know, like giant dude. I feel like we could use time-specific wrestlers too. So I'm going to go like Hall of Pain era Mark Henry. I like him captaining my one team of 10. Andre the Giant. Like, the tales of his superhuman strength.
He may just back down the gorilla, too. I mean, come on. Might hold him down a little bit. No, I mean, the gorilla might get scared of Andre the Giant. Come on. I mean, he might look like the superior, the alpha male. All right. So if you teach Andre the Giant Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. 100% could kill a gorilla. He's at least snapping a limb. He's taking a limb, I think. Yeah. Maybe. I mean, listen, the tough thing with gorillas.
I say this like I have confidence. The tough thing with fighting any wild animal is the same thing that you will encounter in fatherhood. that at some point your kid gets that your kid gets strong before your kid loses the childlike fighting stance of like, you just go 100% all the time, right? So when your kid's around 10 or 11, you get to this weird point where they're trying to kill you. They don't know it, but they're going 100%.
and you don't have anything you can do except like get hurt or fight back you know it's like whatever you have to like stop and have a conversation Animals are like this too. Animals, it's life or death, right? Any animal you fight is fighting for its life, no matter what. They're fighting for food and survival. And on some level, every human is fighting to win or to not get their arms ripped off. You know, like there's going to be some amount of hesitation there.
Yeah, like, that Silverback has no hesitation. Like, he is going to munch. Like, have you seen the Silverback's mouth alone? It's terrifying. the stuff of real nightmare fuel I don't know I think humans could do it We'd have to have like some real Jerry West level, like roster maneuvering. Yeah. Yeah. I have a better question for you. It'll be ugly. What wrestling promotion would be most likely to put on a gorilla versus 100 humans match? Forthroat. laughter laughter
I hope you get to call him now, man. That would be fantastic. I hope so. You got to somehow memorize 100 names. Hey, man. I've done it before. I'll do it again. We have like 40 in Vegas. So, hey. What's 60 more? That would be wild. I'm glad we got to talk about this. WrestleMania weekend next week. We got to make the gorilla match a thing. Dude, they can never do it. Dudes would just die. Listen, man. Netflix might be looking for content next year. So, hey.
You can do it, Netflix. Talk to me. I know. I have an old pitch for that show Fight 2 that me and my buddy Aaron always talked about. It could never happen in the modern era. Maybe Netflix, though. Maybe. Maybe there's some, like, Netflix. you know, strange part of the world, Netflix, where that stuff's okay. I don't know. Make something happen. Anyway, enough about gorillas. Let's talk about just muscly dudes. We'll start the show.
I'm good, shoes. How about yourself, bro? Doing good, man. Watched a little TNA Rebellion last night. did you catch any of that i caught a lot of the highlights i didn't watch it live because The NBA playoffs decided to be batshit crazy all day long. They sure were. But yeah, I did catch the highlights last night. Very newsworthy TNA pay-per-view, if you can believe it or not. Extremely newsworthy. We had a big...
a big smackdown that we'll get to in a second. I do want to talk a little bit about Rebellion. The one and only Joe Henry retaining his TNA World Championship against Frankie Kazarian, a.k.a. the real real life Kaz and Ethan Page. After the match, one Trick Williams showed up and did the trick shot. on uh on on hendry which i guess is this formally trick's heel turn is this the first time the trick has been a hundred percent heel like not just walking the line i guess if you're a tna fan
If you're a TNA fan, I would think so. But I don't know. Trick just kind of the trick crashing out thing that he's been getting over. It kind of feels like that's what's happening with him, right? Yeah. It's weird. Joe Hendry is such a beloved figure in wrestling. I think everything that's done against him is very heelish.
Yeah, it's like slapping a kid in the audience or something. I mean, everybody loves Joe Henry. Yeah, but I mean, God, if I'm an NXT fan, I'm just looking at that as just a badass moment and not necessarily a... a heel or face turn. It's like the biggest star on your show, arguably, just took out your show's world champion at the end of its pay-per-view.
Hard to do much more cool things than that. So I don't know if it's so much of a heel turn or more of a, wow, this is really a big just moment in the crossover between NXT and T and that. So, obviously, there's a lot of moving parts in that crossover. But if you were only to have watched wrestling over the past two weeks... Joe Hendry shows up at WrestleMania as a surprise opponent for Randy Orton.
You know, gets his stuff into the match, but loses very decisively and then takes another RKO after the match when the two are celebrating together. Mm-hmm. There's been a lot of... I feel like the conversation about this has gotten bigger in the past week than it was right in the aftermath of WrestleMania. There's a lot of people who are out there like, oh.
Why would TNA agree to let their champion go in there and lose the big stage of WrestleMania? Randy Orton's not even a champ. But if the trade is just like, we'll put... I can't even frame this question because I think it's self-evidently a good move. I know what you're getting at, though. Is this a good trade-off? Joe Hendry losing at WrestleMania to Randy Orton for Trick Williams. entering into a world title feud in TNA with Joe Hitler.
Yeah. Is that a good trade for TNA? Are you kidding me? Like, yes. One million percent yes. Yeah, I agree. Because I don't really think the Wharton loss is a... I think it's a positive thing. I mean, it was like... It was like a pat on the back. It was like a big hug. It was like a welcome to the big leagues, you know? Like, I thought it was... Of course, like you got to be, you just, you either got to be.
purposefully dense to think that the joe hendry spot at wrestlemania given the circumstances is anything but a positive for joe hendry and tna right like on top of that The trade-off, I think, of you not just sending your world champion to WrestleMania, but now you're sending your top NXT star to end your show is... It's hard for me to find some fault in any of that because now there's real buzz behind Joe Hendry, right? Like even if...
Your first time was seeing him at WrestleMania and you, you know, you're the casuals that sort of like came in. You're all sort of seeing like, wow, that guy who fought Randy Orton, what's he going to do next? If the next thing that he does isn't newsworthy. Yeah.
then that's when it's a waste, right? So Trick Williams showed up right afterwards, and now you got a little bit of a cross-brand feud between two top guys. It's like, all right, now this is... you know, what a partnership, what a anything could happen vibe sort of you want in your wrestling show. Yeah. To go down. So I don't know. I saw a lot of that discourse about like, oh man, are you going to send your world champion to lose to Randy Orton? I'm like, first off.
Godzilla could have been on the card for WrestleMania. You're not letting Randy Orton lose in his 20th. WrestleMania, right? That's just not happening. Well, I mean, I think that you might. This is like the conversation that we were talking about that we had with some folks after WrestleMania. It was like, well, why don't you do Rusev there? Why don't you do Aleister Black there? And the answer is that... I got was, well, you can't have him lose him.
you and i was like why is it self-evident that randy's gonna lose i mean that randy's gonna win it was like oh well of course now we can see because they had him lined up for john cena the next day bingo there you go um so yeah randy orton was not gonna lose given all of that
But yeah, no, I mean, I thought that Joe Hendry, it was a perfect debut for him on that big stage. I frankly would have been worried that he would come out and not gotten a reaction, you know? I mean, this is a WrestleMania crowd. There's a lot of... wrestling diehards that you know believe in joe hendry but there's also you know probably 50 000 other people there who don't keep up with the next year tna you know so it's it's pretty crazy um
the kind of response that he got i mean and i think that everybody you know if whether or not you knew who he was you were stoked to see him it was a cool surprise and And yeah, and I think it was a huge win, even on its own terms, you know? So, you know, I thought that was a good deal. And now Trick Williams is down there at Trickson. Interesting.
Because there's been a lot of talk that Trick might get called up to the main roster. There's a lot of these dudes in NXT right now. Not a lot. But there's a good handful of these dudes. And I put Joe Hendry in this category, too, in TNA. People that have some... you know, that may be a day away from the WWE main roster. I mean, who knows what Hendry's future plans are? But you got guys like Hendry, like Ricky Saints, like Trick. who are all, I'm just speaking about men at the moment.
but who are all like potential top guys that sort of need the runway of NXT or TNA to sort of establish themselves as top guys so they can show up on the main roster as a top guy and not just get lost in the mix. I mean, I don't know what Trick Williams does. I mean, I don't even think Trick Williams could do what Carmelo Hayes is doing. Because Carmelo Hayes has... personality where he can he can be the top dude even if he's not the top dude right and he's also got the real sport
sort of vibe to him where he's like no you got to work your way up you got to lose in the playoffs before you actually win in the playoffs that sort of thing you know it's like everything is a real sports parallel with him and it and it makes sense
and doesn't have and isn't I'm not saying he has to be positioned into the main event but doesn't immediately have a lot of stuff going for him I think he there's a chance he just fades away you know and so I would if it were if I were running WWE I would be very happy to give him...
some run in TNA, you know, and to figure out what the next, figure out what he's going to do in his next act in NXT before I bring him up, rather than bring him up to the main roster and figure it out on the fly. Like, you got to have some real plans for him because he does have so much. It's the same thing I've said about Ricky Starks, aka Ricky Saints. It's like...
As big as he was in AEW, I think that the wrestling world needs to get reaccustomed to seeing him as the top guy in NXT so that when he shows up on the main roster and win it whenever. they will be welcoming in a top guy and not just... you know, someone they're trying to establish. Yeah, I think more than just seeing if Ricky or Trick are top guys, I think...
What you want from that TNA partnership is more real estate to grow these young guys, right? Like now there's this third option of, you know, back in the day. When you've done sort of everything in NXT, which is win the titles, win the tag titles, be over, get all that type of stuff. Like the main roster was all that was left, you know, and some people, even though they had great NXT runs.
the main roster didn't dictate like an open spot for them to sort of like grow that quickly. Right. Like, so, and I think that's what trick is right now. Right. Like trick is so complete as an NXT male star. In Regime's past, we'd all just be counting down for the moment that he's on Raw or SmackDown.
But now you don't have to really rush that because you have this new real real estate in TNA where you can like still make this rise happen. Like at the end of the day, trick showing up on TNA gets him buzz, gets him the same buzz that would happen if. he would show up on like the fourth segment of SmackDown or something like.
Maybe this is sort of recency bias. Maybe more. Yeah. Maybe it's sort of recency bias, but it's like, what got more of a buzz? Was it Aleister Black debuting when we all knew he was going to debut and just sort of kicked The Miz on SmackDown? or showing up at, quote unquote, a rival company's show.
and taken out their world champion at the end of their pay-per-view like both of those generate different types of buzzes and I think you know For guys in NXT, especially in the male roster, I think the women's roster is a lot more... Their talent level is a lot more. There's a lot more talent on the women's side than I think at the top level of the men's side. Right. So I think being able to cross-brand with TNA and NXT for the males...
is going to benefit them way more. Guys like Trick and Wesley jumping in and out and Ethan Page even being in the main event, even though he's been there before. It all just... creates more real estate to get more buzz for the eventual. permanent move to the Raws and the SmackDowns of the world. So I like it. I think it's interesting, and it keeps the guys interesting, which is what you want from them if there's not a ready-made spot for them on Raw or SmackDown today.
yeah i mean they don't have the territories this argument's been made a million times they don't really have a wrestling world outside of wwe to learn the ropes and i mean obviously aew is there but you're not learning there uh in the same way and and and and even if you are i mean that's not to knock aw it's just not a developmental place um for for most people and and But even still, coming over from AEW allows you to have some of that hype that coming in from another territory would.
So I think it's important to sort of create your own farm system, not just the training, but the, but the develop, you know, the territory system of like, you get to go to these different places. You get to go to. I mean, you know, they sent Omos to Japan for five weeks. You know, I think they should do that stuff more. I'm sure there'll be guys going down to AAA, you know, now that they're WWE's.
the owner of a mexican promotion you know i mean who knows they might buy noah or something in the next couple years and then they'll have a japanese promotion i mean it's a there's a lot of people who will be woe is me the whole thing but i think it could be good for at least from the level of guys developing and learning the ropes in different areas and to different audience Anyway.
I mean, listen, Ethan Page was already in the three-way match for the main event, and then Trick comes in and takes out Joe Hendry. I mean, Trick versus Joe Hendry is a good feud. I can't wait to see that happen. What else happened last night? Oh, the Nemeth brothers won the tag team championships from the Hardys. Wow. We've been dying for Nick and Ryan to get together for... million years so that was pretty it's been pretty cool
Masha Slamovich retained the TNA Knockouts World Championship against Tessa Blanchard to the delight of all. Masha is such a killer. I love watching her so much. Um, and then Mustafa Ali and, and Santana, Mike Santana had a Falls Camp Anywhere match that sold the show. I mean, it was so good. There was also the, the, um, What's it called? The Ultimate X Match. Very controversial ending there. Yes. So...
I don't want to Jalen Brunson this thing. I don't want to mar a questionable ending with some great moments. That Leon Slater dive, that like swanton splash for 50. Off the joint, one of the most insane moves I've ever seen in my life. That was unbelievable from Leon Slater. Yeah, really incredible showing. There were a lot of big moments in that match. And then at the end, Leon Slater...
Got the ultimate X title off the top. Fell down. I think was supposed to get speared in midair by Moose. Was that the supposed spot? Because you have to get the belt. apparently, and have both feet touch the ground. There was an AJ Styles match where that was the finish, right? Where the other two guys got the belt, but he somehow ended up with it on the floor. Here we go. Here's that Swanson 450.
Oh my God. It looks terrible. It's a great looking move. And somehow he jumped, he jumped onto 10 guys and none of them caught him clean. Like he still ended up breaking his fall with his, with his hands, which is not what you want to be doing, but that's it. He has this ability to sort of like pause in midair that I think everybody sort of was expecting to catch him and he was like still flying. And oh, dude, he ate so much. He ate so much concrete. Oh, my God, his face. Jesus.
Well, that was insane. That was insane. How much money to do that? Call up in question of the second call of in question of the week. Well. Probably twice as much as whatever they paid Leon to do that because I would not look as good doing that at all. Who would you rather have catch you when you were jumping off of a 30-foot... stanchion or whatever the hell that is would you rather have
The other six people in the ultimate X match and two referees or one silverback gorilla. Who would you rather? Oh, if I hit that gorilla, I'm bouncing off of him like... That's the thing. If the gorilla is to itself, you wouldn't feel as bad about crushing the gorilla. I'm not going to crush the gorilla though. His skin is probably so hard. I'll probably be concussed by landing on him. Anyway. We're really putting the gorillas over today, man. We really are.
Pro wrestling needs more gorillas out there. So yeah, good night. Good night. Big ups to Santana and Ali. That was probably my favorite match. Maybe not my favorite moment, but definitely my favorite match. But there's been a lot of this WrestleMania, like the Randy Orton, Joe Hendry thing. A lot of WrestleMania runoff. Bianca Belair apparently broke some fingers.
And her WrestleMania match is going to be out for a while. What do you think about that news? I mean, that sucks. Bianca Belair, Rhea Ripley, Yo Sky. Definitely the best match for WrestleMania weekend. I said on Twitter this week, it's probably the best WWE women's match of all time. Wow, that's a big race. Yeah, I put a... I put a list together, too, on my timeline, I think, if I remember it. But I had it number one right over Sasha Bailey. NXT TakeOver Brooklyn, and then...
I think Charlotte Becky at Evolution was in there too. Becky Bianca from a few WrestleManias ago. Bayley. No, no, no. Sasha Bianca was in there too. That was one of the greatest women's matches I've ever seen. And in my opinion, definitely the best WWE women's match I've ever seen. So there was bound to be casualties. Sucks that her fingers are broken. Oh, man, Brian, you are killing it today. He got my list right up here. Bianca Sasha, number six.
Charlotte Becky from Evolution at number five. Bianca Becky from Mania at number four. Charlotte versus Rhea at WrestleMania Hollywood. Bayley, Sasha, NXT TakeOver. And then Io, Rhea, Bianca. as my number one women's match. in wwe history um it was great but
Sucks that she's going to be out for some time. Broken fingers. I mean, listen, it sucks. It sucks to have your fingers broken. If you broke your fingers, I'd be like, that sucks for Kaz, even though, you know, like, I don't know how much it would really affect you. But... There's nothing they're going to do with her that you can't do. I mean, that you can't do with a cast on your hand.
Right. I mean, and it gives her a chance to reset a little bit. I know she's, I mean, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. She can still go on to her next thing. If there's anything we've learned in the past year, injuries can be a blessing in disguise. Man, I mean... You think Bianca gives us a reason to boo her when she comes back?
I think so. I think so. She's in a precarious spot in some ways, though, because she was getting those weird boos in Europe and, you know, whatever. And then... So she's almost got to be like super healy to get booed. You know, I don't know if she, if she's like a nuanced heel, then do we feel awkward about booing her because, because she was getting unnecessary booze. But yeah, I hope so. I hope so. Dude.
everybody and their mom is fantasy book putting her with her husband Montez Ford or with the street profits in general. I think that, but I do think that there's something there, you know, I especially think that like.
I think I said this a million years ago, that even though the prophets have been showing the sort of heelish side of themselves, it would be kind of interesting if like the three of them were put together but bianca was like the four like if they kind of did a double turn like bianca joins up with them their heels she's more of a baby face but then like Eventually, she emerges as the real diabolical one, and Montez is in the position.
Like the Miss Elizabeth position of trying to like restrain her a little bit. Not even Miss Elizabeth. You could just look at the judgment.
That's kind of what they did with Rhea Ripley. She joined them, but she eventually was... Everyone knew she was the leader of that group, whether it was Priest or... dom or finn fighting over it ria was the person who led that group um i don't know if pairing them with the street profits is something but i mean it's it's really easy like listen intergender angles are a really easy way to get Because you have a level of sociological interplay that you don't in regular relationships.
So, I mean, I don't know that that's the best idea. But the other thing is, like, once you're in a relationship, fans do a really good job of pretending that... real life relationships don't exist. If you were dating another wrestler, that's kind of the exclusive territory of that, you know, we'll just, we'll put that out of our mind or married to obviously. And yet.
It's a little bit awkward to be in a TV relationship with somebody else when you when everybody knows that you were real life married. Right. So we'll see. We'll see. Speaking of real life married. Big night for the black household. Malakai Black made his debut on SmackDown. Yeah. And his wife. With the music, by the way. Yeah, the good music. So what's the... By the way, the second half of this is his wife, Zelina Vega, is the new women's U.S. champion, having defeated...
Shout out Queens, Queens, New York, Queens, New York, Queens, New York. Shout out Selena Vega winning the women's title, women's US title. Shout out to Chelsea Green, the Bruno Sammartino of the WWE women's division. Truly one of the most iconic champs of all time. But yeah, Selena Vega won. It was hard not to see that as a package deal, although I struggle to think of what the real motive there would have been.
It's interesting, man. The League of Vegas has been kind of on the periphery a lot. She got that one match against Rhea Ripley that the fans sort of... spoke into reality um and then just sort of disappeared again she got moved to smackdown away from the lwo a lot of people saw that for what it was which is putting her at the place where her husband was about to arrive um and you know keeping letting them travel together and such uh but you know
Zelita Vega as SmackDown US Champion is not a bad look. I mean, she's incredibly talented and, you know, positioned correctly, she's really over. I'm not quite sure if this is... Listen, Chelsea Green's reign was sort of monotonous at times. It has nothing to do with Chelsea Green. She was by far one of the most entertaining things in the whole show. The Secret Harvest part stuff was all very good and everything else. I'm sure she'll hang around in that division.
But she, you know, was fighting Mi Chin for like 18 weeks straight. And it was just, there was a lot of sort of just control V about the whole thing. I don't really know. It's not to say that this won't be the same thing, you know? She's just going to get it back. Yeah, it's a possibility. It's a possibility there, but who knows? Yeah, no, I think that might be the best idea. Just let her lose it and get it back.
I think maybe that's why that title changed. Was it shocking to you? When Aleister Black was debuting and then Zelina Vega had a women's titles match, did you immediately think she was going to win? Because I didn't. I was shocked. It was shocking. I mean... I think it's, like I said, it's easy to look at it and be like, oh, well, that's Alistair Black got a promise that his wife would get the belt if he was going to show up. But it just doesn't.
but like there's no real logical connection there right i mean it's like how are you getting why on earth do they do it the same night unless there's some like weird play like social media play that you think doing both things for this couple on the same night will just kind of like amplify both of them a little bit you know because there will be people talking about it you know otherwise there will be people talking about why does Lena Vega lose
on the night that her husband showed up? Or why did she not wrestle? So I think there might be some sort of... low-key SEO brilliance at work there, but I'm not sure. Alistair Black put up a video on whatever social media that was thanking the fans for their love and support or whatever. One of my buddies... texted me the video and just immediately his only note was why do none of these people have couches
Everybody that does this streaming stuff or these videos just seem to be sitting in gaming chairs and have empty apartments or whatever. So it's pretty incredible. Maybe they're just... They need the whole living room floor to do push-ups or whatever the hell they're doing. Kickboxing training. Let them cook, man. Get your content out however you need to get your content out, man. It's all good. You got to work your way up to the good couch. That's not a, you know.
You think good content couches just grow on trees? No. You've got to earn those. Chelsea Green, for the record. I mean, and this match in general could have been a WrestleMania match. Chelsea Green, of course, despite her greatness, was left off the WrestleMania card. So was the entire SmackDown tag team division. They had a killer 30-minute...
match on SmackDown that was just... Tables, ladders, and chairs, man. It was a TLC match that if that match had been... I mean, if that match had been at WrestleMania, it wouldn't have been 30 minutes long. So there you go if you need a rationale for feeling okay about it, but whatever. If that 30-minute match had been at WrestleMania, that would have been the best match of the week.
Am I right? Yeah, absolutely. There was no pre-show matches this year, right? There wasn't any matches on the pre-show. I don't think so, no. No, no, we're not. So, yeah, I mean, in years past, that's probably, you know, that or... Or you could argue, well, did we really need AJ Styles and Logan Paul at WrestleMania? Or did we really need...
I think they would have said, yes, we need Logan Paul at WrestleMania. Yeah, and that's the thing. I'm saying that's what I think people would argue, but I would say, yes, Logan Paul is a very popular person. You want him wrestling on your wrestling. So yeah, it definitely smelled like, oh. We get that. And now we're going to have the best match of the year on SmackDown. Yeah.
I'm sure that was Triple H's pep talk, too. Of course. Choppa freaking came out with a fresh shave. I'm like, oh, they are not messing around today. And they just... It was an absolute insane match. Street Profits. continue to... have these incredible showings when given the ball to really just cook in these multi-man matches. They had one of those in NXT that was incredible. Back in the day? The old NXT? Yeah. When they first won the NXT tag titles, I was like, yeah, these guys are shit.
And I'm glad that they retained. I'm glad that they retained because I think their character development is of most importance. as opposed to the Motor City machine guns and DIY. No disrespect to those guys. But... You got to know what should happen to street profits right now. I think they do. I think that they, and some, you know, listen. I just spent five minutes earlier in the show talking about you got to take some of these surefire talents a little bit carefully.
You know, you got to you got to move slow so that you don't overexpose them and end up hurting them in the long run. I mean, I don't know if that's the right. I mean, I don't know if I'm right about that because the street profits are one that it seems like at times they've been going so slow to sort of protect them that it's been killing. I guarantee if you put truth serum in Triple H at any point over the past five years, he would have said Montez Ford is a future main eventer. Full stop.
But maybe because of that, he's been too careful. He's so worried about it. I mean, putting all this on Triple H, but like just creative in general, you know, you kind of get the don't F it up. label on somebody and you end up not doing an effing thing. Nah, I think if we're continuing to... Drink some of that truth serum. I think athletically and, you know.
Yes, Montez Ford is a future main eventer, but they definitely need a little bit more seasoning as far as their character was concerned, right? Like the, you know, the red cups and the dancing, like you could still do that. You could always still do that, but they needed this edge that they have right now. Those promos that they showed leading up to their return and the changing of the music and all that type of stuff, that was needed. It's sort of...
It's the steady progression of like, you know, for lack of a better term, being too entertaining too soon. Right. Like, cause when you're super entertaining so soon. you have a danger of just being that for so long, right? For sure. And it's safe and it's easy. But, you know, then... You want to see a guy, if you're going to look at them as someone who's at the top of the card, you want to see them...
have a little bit more depth, do something different that's successful. And now they're showing you that they can do that also. So it's like, these are all the boxes that sort of get checked. Before, you know, you get super duper established as like can't miss, have to be on the card every week sort of act. And, you know, as far as tag teams go. it's really them left right like it's it was the uso it was the new days era
Maybe like, you know, when they were all healthy and a unit and before Kofi Mania, really. Then it was the Usos era during the pandemic and the Bloodline era and all that type of stuff. As far as established tag teams are concerned, as far as guys that were entertaining and then had to change a little bit or give a little bit more depth to their character.
I think the Street Profits are right on time. I think they're right on that same timeline to sort of be this great tag team. You're basically saying... As far as like homegrown tag teams go. Yes, yes, yes. They're carrying the Uso New Day torch at this point. Right, yes. And especially if... We're all looking at Montez and Angelo Dawkins as eventually being successful solo acts with all of us.
Sort of thinking like, all right, Montez might be the person who might be just a slight level above that could be a main event sort of guy. I mean, listen, it's just a fact. I mean, I'm sorry. History might prove us all wrong. And it could be Angelo Dawkins is just like the freaking goat of his generation. Sure. But it's not. It's not. I feel like sometimes we get too precious about this because Dawkins is so good and has improved over the years at such a clip.
I mean, Montez is just on another level. He's just got every single tool in the world that you would want for a champion. I do the special, man. Freaking. I love the spot with the prosthetic leg, you know? Yeah, the improv, yeah. Everything is just so innovative with him, especially with these ladder matches, especially with these. his ability to just freaking jump out the gym. You know what I mean? He's just, he's just, he's just an insane sort of freak athlete. Not for nothing. Like, you know.
Dude, I don't care what kind of physical freak you are. You can only jump 75 feet in the air so many times. You know, at some point you're going to hit 40 and that's not, jump's not going to look the same. So let's capitalize on it now. Yeah, no, I feel you. I feel you. I'm just... I'm just digging the progression. I'm just digging. Yeah. Well, they should. I agree. I agree. I mean, enjoy the ride. They're in their day one-ish era of their tag team right now. Or it's like, all right.
carry the torch as the guys right now, as the tag team in the WWE. And they're doing a pretty good job of it. New Day obviously ain't going nowhere. They're still tag team champions over on Raw. But... It's time for the street profits to sort of like take that as a personal challenge as far as like tag team wrestling is concerned in the company. Sure. Until, you know. The eventual split off, the eventual. So we all know that'll come one day. But right now, that's what I want to see from them.
The breakup. I don't know. I've always said, I don't know they need to break up. I don't think they do either. I don't think they do either, but I just want to see it first. I want to see it from them first as the guys in the tag team.
Maybe they could stay together. I've been dying for someone to do the killer bees gimmick when they don't look alike. You know, it's just like, let them wrestle masks. There's too many masks in wrestling. Forget it. Although they should have done that at WrestleMania. Did we talk about that on the air? I was talking to somebody about this at the meet and greet. When Ray got hurt, they ended up replacing him. which was fine, you know, like let Phoenix have that spot.
But like... What if they just put... Are you about to say what if they just put like Rey Fenix or Rey Mysterio's gear? No, no, no, no. That would be great. That would be great. I did for years make the case that Ricochet should have been Sin Cara, but that's a different argument. When he went down, just put a dude who can really work under that mask. But no, if they had said, how great would it have been if instead of Rey Fenix, if they had said Rey Mysterio is her?
And so we're giving Chad Gable his WrestleMania moment. So it's Chad Gable versus El Grande and Arcana. And it's both like a cool storyline, like twist, but also it's like the GM, you know, Nick, all this trying to get one over or sorry. Adam Pearce trying to get one over. on, um, chad gable who he suspects has been lying to him this time right and then you have Brutus Creed come out as El Grande Americano to take on Chad Gable.
And at some point, Brutus Creed as El Grande Americano rolls under the ring and Julius Creed comes out with the mask on. And then he goes back under to some point, Ivy Nile comes out with the mask on. And everyone's just like, God, ref, can't you see what's happening here? And the ref's acting all comically confused. And then... At some point, I guess, I guess.
Chad gets the win? But anyway, that could have been an epic match. They had the nerve to actually go out and have a decent match too. I would have much rather watched that. It was the best match of the night. Was that the best match of night too? Night two? Oh, no. Are you kidding me? Bianca, Io, Rio. Oh, yeah, yeah. You have that. That's an all-timer. That's night one in my mind for some reason.
The IC title match too, also. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I love that. Lots of fun matches. Night 2 was a really fun night of wrestling. It was. Very good. Night 2 was a damn near perfect night of wrestling. Damn near. Damn near perfect night of wrestling. Damn near not including the main event. Is that where it sucks to be near? The damn and the near. It was right there.
It was right there. It was close. Are you still convinced that the main event of night two was deliberately bad and that that was a good move? Are you still going to go to the mat on that one? Maybe deliberately bad wasn't the term or phrase I was trying to use or should have used. I would say deliberately anticlimactic. Yes, okay. I don't know if they were going for bad. They were simply going for no fan service. They were definitely going for...
WrestleMania X7, the crowd's gonna be like, why, why, why? And not just... this great sort of classic finish that we expect from our WrestleMania main events that we talk about for years and years to come. It's more about the, oh my God, I can't believe this thing just sort of happened sort of thing. So maybe deliberately bad.
Wasn't what I was... I just don't think you can do deliberately bad in pro wrestling. At least not in a big match. You could do deliberately bad as an opener. If that's really the gimmick you're going for.
But deliberately bad, I mean in the sense of like... You could be like performatively bad. That's a little bit different, but like... A WrestleMania main event ending on a title... hit to the face but here's the thing and i'll go yeah you're right listen it's like you're not that's not a happy ending like you're not even getting the big fancy finish you're not getting the big fancy entrance you're not getting the big fancy anything
You're just getting results. I win. You're getting story. You can tell a story. I just don't think bad. I think in a staged sport, deliberately bad is a terrible... You could do a lot of other things to make that match unfulfilling, right? Okay. You could have done... Like what? What do you mean?
Old man John Cena is back. And guess what? He's only been watching Brock Lesnar tape for the one guy who just destroyed him. He's been like studying everything that he did. So he just comes in and hits like. 12 attitude adjustments on Cody and wins the belt. Like, that's it. You know, just have that Brock Lesnar style.
You know, where it's like you come out and you're like, damn, that's not at all what I was hoping for from my favorite wrestler, Cody Rhodes, whatever. Like that's deliberately unfulfilling in its way because it's like a wow thing. But you can't be like, no, I'm bad. I'm going to ruin wrestling. How? Because I'm bad at wrestling.
Because I can put on an entertaining match. But he didn't ruin it by being bad at wrestling. He ruined it by not giving a satisfying conclusion. The match itself was fine. The match itself was fine. It was the conclusion that was just like... It was the beginning and the end that made you think this was a deliberate attempt to not give you fansurf. It was the black and white font. It was the slow walk. It was all that stuff mixed with the Travis Scott, the slow ass walk.
The ball shot, the title shot. That's what I meant. Oh, they're deliberately not trying to make you cheer this. not this was bad. I think everything in between that was a perfectly fine wrestling match. It's not like a fucking five-star, four-star, whatever, but it's like it's a John Cena, Cody Rhodes wrestling match. What were you expecting?
But that's what I meant by purposefully this. The other thing is, no matter what the feelings were about that match, and maybe this factored into their planning, I mean, to their staging a little bit. But no matter what the reaction was about the match, it was swallowed up in the whole where's the rock thing at the end. They had to know that's coming.
You know, it's like, yeah, I don't know if that match was good or bad. I know that I'm disappointed right now. I'm disappointed in the ending of the match, but now I'm really disappointed because The Rock's not here. Cast a weird shadow over the entire road to WrestleMania, honestly. Maybe we look at this entire...
road to WrestleMania a little differently if we just knew from Rip that Rock wasn't going to be involved at all. I think it would have been a much better road to WrestleMania. I do think that they deliberately... I mean, listen, here's where I am on... In some detail. And correct me if I'm wrong. I definitely saw advertisements that said John Cena and The Rock on Raw or SmackDown at one point, right?
Was that like some Mandela effect shit? They said he was going to be at Mania? Is that what you're saying? No. There was one of these Raws that was advertised overseas. where they said The Rock and John Cena will be at Raw. And then they were just gone afterwards, and he never showed. Oh, God, I don't even remember. You're probably right. I'm positive I've seen them. If I didn't...
Forget all this, but I'm almost positive, unless there's some real Mandela affection. Well, I can tell you one thing for sure, and that's that they didn't dissuade you that The Rock was going to be there. I think it would have been a really smart storytelling move to say The Rock won't be at WrestleMania ahead of time. But clearly the same impulse that led Ari Emanuel to call The Rock before Elimination Chamber and say, can you show up or having trouble selling out?
It's the same thing. It's like, dude, we're not going to forfeit ticket sales by telling people The Rock's not going to be there. But then you'd have to believe that. But then you'd have to believe that. You'd have to believe that. Toronto had trouble selling out, which... Oh, is that a point of contention? I honestly don't know. I just took that at face value when The Rock said it. I am not completely sure.
that they had trouble selling out. Comparing the timeline to when The Rock, when we knew The Rock was going to be at Elimination Chamber and when he wasn't. I just don't know. I didn't hear anything about like, oh, elimination. Not that I look for this type of stuff anyway. But I feel like I would have... As much as they talk about their consecutive sellout streak, their consecutive attendance record, all that type of stuff.
I think it would have like went off my brain a little bit if, you know, I heard Elimination Chamber had trouble selling tickets in Toronto. I mean, listen, WrestleMania, I'm not even going to, you know, they'll tell you they don't kayfabe ticket sales anymore. But WrestleMania, I'm pretty sure they claimed sellouts on both nights, right? And yet the total attendance was different on both nights. Yeah, yeah.
So I'm not exactly sure how to square that. I'm sure I'm just missing something obvious, but that doesn't, you know. In any case. I mean, I think it's sort of like, it's a functional sellout. It's like, it's like, you know, when my kid comes home and he says, I aced this test and he got like a 96 and I'm just like, that's not, an ace means a hundred, but you know what? I'll give you ace. I'll give you that works. That's an ace in this household. Yeah.
I think there's, I think there's room to say, I mean, I don't have any moral problem with being like, yeah, we sold out when you were like. you know, a thousand tickets in a football arena shy. Right. When all these wrestlers are like, we sold out every house up and down the road. They're not actually looking at numbers. You know, it's more of just like an emotional thing.
If it was having trouble selling out, I'm not sure if The Rock was that person that pushed that last extra 3,000 tickets over the... Over the, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I don't know how much the Rogers centers hold, but like 40,000, 30,000, something like that. Like a pretty high number. I don't know. It's just. You're just not believing anything The Rock is selling or cooking for that.
Dave, and you know how much I love me some Dwayne Johnson, bro. You know how much I love The Rock. That's my all-time favorite. Go to Go. It just don't smell right. It don't. It ain't. It's just not adding up to me, man. I'm Zach Galifianakis with the numbers floating behind my head during the hangover. No, I fully believe, yeah. I'm Iraqi. I just thought... Listen, here's where I am with WrestleMania because it gives them too much of the benefit of the doubt. I was going to say this before.
before this giant rabbit hole erupted in front of us. I think that Cena was supposed to, I mean, I firmly believe that Cena's heel turn was supposed to come at WrestleMania. That there was a sort of lackluster build because they didn't really have much planned. They were planning on it being a babyface versus babyface build, which would have been...
probably pretty boring, but at least you would have understood what the point was, right? And then Cena turns heel at WrestleMania. All this stuff's ready to go. We said that last time. I mean, it's felt like they didn't even have anything but the t-shirts ready when he turned heel. But yeah, whether or not The Rock was, whether or not that was the plan when The Rock was called into duty, whether or not The Rock got the call from Ari Emanuel or whether he injected himself.
I don't know. It's all very strange, but whatever. I'm sure there'll be a documentary that they say is going to come out in like two weeks and it'll come out in October and that'll explain, that'll not explain everything. You saw the rumor that there's an expectation that Travis Scott and John Cena are going to have a tag team match together at some point? Yeah. Yeah. I can see potentially Cody Rhodes in bad bunny. Does that do anything for you?
It does a lot for me, Dave. Does it really? It really does. Yes, it does. Do you really need? I can't do it. I just literally can't. I've been wanting to see Bad Bunny wrestle again for a long time. Well, sure. That was a lot of fun. But I can't do two. I can't do both of those guys in the same match I just can't do it
Because it's like fucking Dennis Rodman and Karl Malone being in the same match in WCW. You can't go into a match. Which was awesome, by the way. You can't go into the match saying there's two of the four people in this match are zero. Unless it's like the gimmick is that they're zeros, unless it's like a dude in his valet against another dude in his valet or so, you know, whatever. It's like you can't.
You can't. Bad Bunny is not a zero. Bad Bunny took Damien Priest to the fucking limit. She's not a zero. That's great. Bad Bunny versus Travis Scott is a net zero. Dave. You are alone on this one. I would love, love to see Bad Bunny and Travis Scott wrestle. I would love to see Travis Scott get arm dragged by Bad Bunny, get stretched out. Get put in a Romero special. If we're not trying to see real-life celebrity death match.
What are we doing all this for? If we're not trying to see real life, go ahead. If you're a fan of Bad Bunny, I would have... Which is like a zillion people. You should not want to see that match either. You don't want a bad bunny getting put in the position of getting hurt. What? A zillion people will watch this match. You do understand this, right? Like a Travis Scott Bad Bunny wrestling match.
would shatter records these are two of the most popular oh i'm very aware like it's it is they have a level of cultural relevance just in music between them both that rivals a lot of WWE combined. That would be a match that everyone would watch. And on that buddy's side alone, you know it'd be at least decent. It will be at least decent. I haven't seen Travis Scott Russell at all. But you at least have seen what Bad Bunny, like he's at least competent in there. Like he does, he's done it before.
at a high level, at a sold-out arena, sold-out stadium. No way. He's done it multiple times already. I'm not saying it won't happen. I have my reservations. Listen, I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm certainly not saying it won't make a lot of money. I'm just saying this is a terrible decision.
Hard disagree. If pro wrestling isn't about the ridiculous spectacle of celebrity and violence, that's not the pro wrestling I want to see. How many dates left does John Cena have, according to the chart? 23, 27, mid-20s, I think. You, as a diehard wrestling fan, want John Cena to use one of those teaming up with Travis Scott, who will never wrestle again.
against bad bunny and cody rhodes who absolutely yes yes yes why why why would you not want to see it oh because we need to This is going to sound awful, but it's going to be like... If I'm on the roster and I get bumped off of whatever card. because Travis Scott and Bad Bunny are going to wrestle. I got to understand that, Chief.
These are two of the most popular people on earth. Dude, I don't disagree. I don't disagree with any of this. I just wouldn't put them in a match together. I'm happy for both of them to wrestle. But I don't need... It just does nothing for me. Absolutely. It does less than nothing. Not even for... Not even just for the sheer... Not even for the sheer curiosity of what this will look like. What if Travis Scott gets in there and he's like Leon Slater?
And he's just like ridiculously athletic. Like what if he shocks us? Sure. Let him show me that in a match against Cody Rhodes or something, you know, like. maybe it's just weird it's weird maybe something happens I understand you gotta get the celebs in there I understand it's like a wrestling it's a historical wrestling thing I'm okay with that but it's just if you're gonna get the golden rule of my celeb involvement
in WWE is if you're going to get there eventually you got to get physical and if you're respected enough to get physical to have an entire match in the way but we all like I have an extreme amount of faith in what Bad Bunny pulled off. several times at the Rumble, at Mania, at Backlash, to be like, I'm down to see whatever. Whatever he wants to have back in WWE, I'm down to see whatever it is. And if it's against Travis Scott, so be it.
So be it. It'll be the big story of music. I can understand blind Bad Bunny excitement. That I can understand. But the rest of it is just no. Just don't put them together. Travis Scott Bad Bunny wrestling mask. If you have to have John Cena and Travis Scott team up, and I don't let you pick Bad Bunny as the opponent, if you have to use wrestlers or full-time WWE employees,
And I can't use Bad Bunny as Cody's teammate? No. You got to use full-time WWE employees. It doesn't have to be Cody. It could be anybody. But you can't. But they have to wrestle John Cena and Travis Scott. Yeah. I mean, you could convince me on like a dirty dom. I mean, you could convince me on like some. Dirty Dom would be a good one. Yeah, if you want to do Dirty Dom in somebody that could work, like Drew McIntyre or something, you can get me.
You can gas me up to a freaking Lucha Brothers versus Johnson and Travis Scott. That'll be my map. I mean, that would take a lot of heavy booking, but yeah, sure, sure. You could heat up Penta for a month and get him a world title shot against John Cena. And then just be like, hey, before we get into that, we're going to have a tag team match. And then, you know, Penta, who's your guy? You need to go get a tag team partner. Boom, here comes Ray Phoenix. And now you got John Cena.
working with a guy, and you got Travis Scott in there with someone who's going to make him look like a zillion bucks. Two people are going to make him look like a zillion bucks. I mean, you might need to do... You could do like Rollins and Heyman against Cena. than Travis Scott. That way you have at least one professional wrestler in the match in Seth Rollins. Rollins and Braun Breaker versus Cena and Travis Scott. Now that...
would be my CTV. Oh, I just put Heyman in there because I was trying to think of a non-wrestler who bounced it out. Rollins and Breaker would, yeah, that could be big. You think they got another guy? I don't think they need another guy. I kind of like the idea of them having, I mean, a lot of people have booked. Did we talk about this last time? A lot of people have fantasy booked Fraxium into it because Nathan Frazier is, of course, a real Seth Rollins student.
And Seth has frequently paired himself with people who he real life likes, you know, like whatever, has relationships with. I don't know that that's the most compelling look for them. And I don't know they necessarily need a tag team in this thing. Unless it's from Miz and Mello. Oh my God. Did you see that Miz thing? The giant observer? The giant observer?
No, the giant Andre chain is amazing. The Andre chain is awesome. Like they should sell those, man. Fire. I love that idea. No, there was like a, there was like a, just a. screenshot from the observer that was getting passed around because it said here i'll pull it up I sent this to the group chat. It said, it was announced later on SmackDown that next week's show will have Blackface Miz in his first match. And it means Aleister Black, but the way that it's written...
Looks like they're debuting a new gimmick for The Miz, which is Blackface Miz. So when you said that in the group chat, I did not catch it until you just explained it to me right here, right now. I was like, why is he sending me this? What would be more exciting? Who are you more excited for? The return of Aleister Black or a new gimmick called Blackface Minutes?
Oh, Dave, you don't understand how I stared at that screenshot all week. What's he talking about? Blackface Miz. Oh, my God. The Blackface Miz gimmick would be... Horrible on so many levels. Oh my gosh. The worst thing ever. The worst thing about it is it wouldn't be the first one. It wouldn't be the first blackface gimmick. WWE, if Miz went hot rot, hot Miz and hot, hot, hot Swizz. Yeah. If you want the split phase, I don't know.
No, I don't want to see Blackface Miz. I like him too much as a guy. He's a good dude. I don't want to see that for him. Damn, you observer. What are you doing? Jeez. That was not deliberate. yeah yeah the Miz stuff has been great I mean I think
I don't know, the old guy, young guy stuff, it has a sort of baseline level of, you know, it has a high floor, I guess, right, is the way to put it in sports terms. It always works a little bit. I like their chemistry. I feel like it's working way more than I would have anticipated. with Miz and Mello. I don't think they need to be a part of it. this new crew uh with seth and hayman but just let them cook let them do their own thing um i mean listen there's
We went through all the names last week. I don't think they need another guy. I don't. At least not right away. You know, I mean, there's only so many times you can pull that rabbit out of the hat. Maybe, maybe they, it's like the, it's like all the, whenever a new. Bloodline member would debut or whatever. It's like, we'll save that for the moment where we need it. Let him pop up in the match. Let him surprise everybody. Because that's what Braun Breaker did. He popped up when they needed it.
But we'll see. We'll see. I'm not opposed to them getting another member. I just think there's a... I think especially with the unknowns, like Fraxium is a relative unknown to main roster viewers. You got to slow walk it a little bit. You got to be careful because if there's too many folks you're not familiar with, it will seem like less of a big deal.
It's different if you're going for pure muscle, like when Seth had the Authors of Pain with him or whatever in that Monday Night Messiah run. Then muscle is a different thing. But if you're trying to convince us that like... you know, Paul Heyman and Seth Rollins have a better eye for talent than he, I don't know. I mean. Dawnbreaker's a good choice. Just don't keep giving us guys that fans haven't heard of. That's what I...
I mean, he keeps saying, you know, now with hindsight being 20-20, he keeps saying this is going to be for the soul of professional wrestling. And, you know, it leads you to believe that there's going to be more than just Braun. You know, the visionary, the leader, and all this type of stuff. You see him at the draft, by the way? Great appearance by Seth Rollins at the draft. Killed it at the draft. Killed it at the draft. Him and J. I mean, Jimmy. Jimmy Uso. Jimmy was fried at that joint.
And Ariel Helwani. Helwani had a great moment at the draft as well. But, yeah, I don't know. I would have been shocked if they get some more folks in that group. Seth seems to do well in stables, and I think with Heyman there, you know... Well, I'll say this. If it stayed at a trio, it seemed like it would just be like... we all know Bron Breaker's going to run this shit, and this is the way we get him ready to do that. Just being both in his ear as like...
Dude, you can be the guy who can fucking roll Roman Reigns over. You know what I mean? With both of us in your ear. So I could see that, but who knows? Yeah, I just don't need it. I don't need it. And you're right. Seth, you say Seth has done well in the stable. Well, he's done pretty well. I mean, you're talking about The Shield, I assume, but there was a Monday Night Messiah crew that didn't really amount to much. There was...
What were his other... Did he have anything else? All I'm saying is we've seen Seth Rollins run this table. Well, he was in the authority for a long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've seen Seth Rollins... You're right. We've seen Seth Rollins run these plays before. Right now, we're trying to figure out something different for Seth Rollins. My feeling is... maybe we don't let him, like, let us put him in a different position, you know?
So, I don't know. I do want to see how they interact, though. I do want to see, like, what backstage is between, like, Braun and Seth and Heyman will look like, though. Like, that's... That dynamics can be really interesting. I know they're doing this sort of backstage dynamics. I know this is, like, the... silliest conversation but there's this thing i was hearing i was listening to it on the radio this morning We're like in some European country, like the Denmark something border.
There is a annual moose migration and there is, and they play it on TV locally. And it's just a 24 hour camera that just is like put in one place and you just occasionally see a moose walk by. right or a group of moose i don't know how this works they call it slow tv because it's like the antithesis of everything we watch right it's just like not it's like literally real-time tv okay watching mooses moose is a plural of moose watching muses just migrate in front of a lake or whatever
so i started trying to think what the wrestling equivalent of this would be and i couldn't think of anything i mean you get moose from tna just to like walk across the country and film him but even that would be more interesting But I started to wonder if it's real time. They kept saying real time and multiple hours long. If they did it in real time. This is a totally different idea, but it's a spinoff. If they just put one camera.
with a live feed and audio, but the audio is going to be garbled at some points, that was just in the gorilla position room at WrestleMania. How much money could they pay? How much money could they ask for you to watch that in real time? To watch. Just you have a camera in the upper corner of Gorilla for WrestleMania weekend. Could they charge like 500 bucks for that? It's a lot less... I don't need to give WWE any ideas about how to make money.
Obviously, once you do it, then people stop having the same conversations. It's electric in there, though. I can't lie. That's the one thing I do miss about working at WWE. There's nothing like... that moment in Gorilla just before something is happening or like during something is happening. It's electric in there. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know how many people would get a kick out of watching stuff like that, but it's like... Every single wrestling fan.
I mean, a hard knocks, you know, like if they ever did like some real life, like hard knocks, I mean, with the, with the writer's room stuff, right? Oh, you're talking about the writer. Well, they're, I mean, this is Netflix. Yeah. That show has been in production for a long time in various forms, but it has always been thought of as WWE's answer to Hard Knock.
Okay. All right. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, nah, that play. All right. So yeah, if there's going to be a lot of, you know, guerrilla conversations on that show, like you're going to. that thing, you know, especially when something great happens, when something terrible happens, like there have been my, my highest highs and lowest lows of my tenure in WWE all happened in that room. Being in that room when something great is happening is literally like...
The most incredible feeling you will ever have, especially if you're on a headset and watching it all sort of like manifest in front of you. Yeah. I was in Gorilla when I found out with the entire locker room that Roman Reigns' cancer had came back. And that was a moment where I was like, this is a feeling I've never felt in my life.
I've been in that room where I've had shit go completely off the rails. I'm hearing, what the hell is going on? That's another. Who is that an impression of? What in the hell? God, click. Hearing that, boy, that'll put some hair on your chest. If that show is going to be a lot of stuff that happens in Guerrilla, you're going to get some... lifetime's amount of memes on your social media of what comes out of that room. Absolutely. Yeah. Anyway, we've just been running off our mouths forever.
We haven't mentioned AEW a single time. Sorry. What's the EW news, Brian? What should we be talking about? The Owen. The Owen is about to wrap up, right? The Owen's been really good. Kyle Fletcher versus Hangman Adam Page in the men's finals, it looks like. Looks like Samoa Joe and Moxley is legit. It's happening. I should hope so. He choked him out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Fletcher.
He's got to win the all-in. He's the blueprint, man. If you're these up-and-coming wrestlers, go look at Kyle Fletcher because he figured out how to be the best wrestler in the world and also figured out how to be the best character that he can be at the same time. He's not sacrificing one for the other. Yeah, he's like... It's wild how at one point he was just sort of like Will Ospreay's Jr. This is just like, you know, Will Ospreay's little, you know, his dolder. But then like...
It's like he was on his way to being another Will Ospreay and then just went to the Randy Orton School of Professional Wrestling. Yes. It's like somebody just put Randy Orton highlights in his VR headset. six months and then out came this guy and we're just like yep this dude is with a little spice of that little you know united empire i forgot was it australia a little bit of australian sauce on top of it He's the goods. I like him a lot. And he's got to be a hangman at a pace to win the Owen.
But I'm pretty sure he's not going to win because, you know, it feels like what the winner of the Owen faces off the winner of the world championship at all in. Is that what I'm to presume? Yeah. Okay, yeah. I feel like that could be a Hangman Mach story more than a Fletcher Mach story. But... Wouldn't mind either way. Wouldn't mind either way. But I think Fletcher is built for... Yeah, I don't think Fletcher's there quite yet. And I don't think he's going up against Mach.
I mean, it's just he's there both heels or like whatever. It doesn't quite do it for me. I think Hangman's the way to go. Building Fletcher up this high is only specifically to like finally... finish the Hangman Adam Page reclamation story, which I think is supposed to happen at all. Yeah, I'm glad that Page is in this position. He better win this match. I'm going to lose my mind. By the way, speaking of AEW...
I saw some people joking around about the devaluation of the yin, which is kind of funny. Naito is leaving New Japan. What, uh... oh yeah mayu itami is leaving stardom she's like the best one of the best wrestlers there's a lot of there's a lot of speculation she'll go to marigold so still kind of off
our normal radar. But Dave is speculating that she's going to come to WWE. So that would be crazy. I think it would be worth it for them just to put a lot of money in her lap just to let her and EO have one big match. You know, even if you're not going to come full time, just like before you go to Marigold, maybe just come here for two months. You know, let's just do a thing because she, those two would be crazy.
And by the way, that's the sort of thing that you should be doing between these big programs. Just give us these crazy dream matches. I mean, that's something that WWE could really learn from AEW or whatever. Oh, and Thekla's done with Startup 2. She's... She wrestled WrestleMania weekend, had a great showing there. She's incredibly talented. I feel like she's...
going to end up in AEW, where especially if Mariah May is leaving, they could certainly use her, even as good as that AEW women's division has been of late. But Dakla's a real talent. It'd be crazy if WWE wasn't looking at her too. I mean... Is Mariah May leaving? Is that what's happening to her? It feels like the rumors are shifting in your favor, Kaz. Wow. Should we go put together a supercut of you speculating about her being done with AEW?
Not quite yet. I wouldn't do that yet, but I, you know. I know nothing, man. I'm just a harmless speculator. So crazy. We'll see, though. We'll see how that turns out. Let's see. What are we not going to be talking about today? We will not be discussing Bryan Danielson's statement that All In was bigger than WrestleMania 30 for him. Guess what? He's allowed to say that.
We will not be discussing this weird Hogan Eric Bischoff post. I don't know what it is. Is it a podcast? It's got to be a podcast, right? Yeah. Which I guess is fine. It's so weird. And then... Am I terrible for thinking like it? No, I'm not even going to. Am I terrible for wanting to kind of hear what he's going to say a little bit? Hogan?
Yeah. I mean, Hogan's always entertained to listen to, even though he never tells the truth. Yeah, that's exactly why. That is exactly why. You know he's going to tell some of the tallest tales. And thankfully, we live in a world where some of the greatest wrestlers and the people who are all there all also have great podcasts as well. I would love to tell their sides of stories, too.
I'm not going to pretend I'm not interested in hearing him talk about professional wrestling. Any other topic, he can go straight to Felton. to hell out of here, right? But I'm not going to pretend that like a Hulk Hogan wrestling podcast full of cap would not at least be entertaining and interesting. Sure.
Somebody posted way too early predictions for WrestleMania 42. I won't really go into it because a lot of them are like, eh, some of them could certainly be true, but for the most part, it just kind of felt like... matches that could happen at SummerSlam or even sooner. It's kind of hard to get out of the now when you're doing these things. But if you had to predict a WrestleMania main event for next year... My WrestleMania main event.
I think you can go, if I'm putting it together, I think it's Roman Cody 3. I think that's the biggest match you can make if you're... If you hand me all the cards that I have right now. I think Roman Cody... That's bigger than Cody versus Punk? Yeah, I think so. You know.
yeah i think i think it is depending on the type of year that punk has i could say that right now and then all of a sudden punk could go on like another insane like genre defending run where like he's got to be in the main event at wrestlemania but as of right this second Like Cody Roman 3 is the match in New Orleans to have if you're going to make a main event. Alright. I don't hate that.
i mean you got to do it at some point the thing is i know that aw does trilogies all the time this is not a knock on aw at all um Although the insistence upon trilogies does sort of take me out of the moment a lot of times in watching these matches, but I will say WWE doesn't do them.
as much at all i feel like when you do cody versus roman 3 it's really like the last time you're allowed to play that card right so it would feel like a bigger deal even than it was well it's depending on how you play it right if i'm doing it next year You could definitely see a world where they switch roles and Cody's the heel and Roman's the big face. So that's the way I would see it. But definitely the last time you can do...
Cody fans versus Roman fans and just see how it happens. Like, no, somebody's got to choose a hard and fast line in the sand on why they're fighting again. Wait. Yeah. Okay. I wonder, part of me wonders, and I'm going to, we got to end this episode. Part of me wonders if we're moving past faces, face turns and heel turns in a weird way.
i know that we've been saying for i feel like years on this show that we're the sort of post heel era right that everybody just kind of is who they is and you is who they are sorry do you you boo them for their actions but they don't actually need a heel turn right they don't need a baby face turn but part of me thinks that we're just like so invested in these people outside of the ring too that like
Cody versus Roman Reigns. What is Cody going to do to get booed? If Cody actually turns heel, we just saw this with John Cena. He's going to get cheered five minutes later. Probably. Probably. Doesn't mean you don't switch it up. Doesn't mean you don't, you know, you let the fans. How they cheer, who they cheer or who they boo is irrelevant. It's just how they react to somebody is all that matters. Cena is getting cheered like crazy even though he's doing the worst shit ever.
And it's because people are actually interested in seeing that again. They're not just cheering him. mean things he's saying. They're cheering him because he's interesting. I'm cheering all the mean things he's saying. I agree with him. He's making a lot of good points. He does make a lot of salient points about toxic relationships. I'm like, yeah, this is what I be talking about all the time, John.
That's what I be saying. It's not normal. It's not normal. Oh, man. All right, let's get out of here. Before we do it. Let's roll. What was the worst? booking decision at Wrestlemania with now with some with a couple of weeks of separation Ooh, that's a good question. The worst booking decision of WrestleMania. Given what you had, you can't say Over the Rock not being there or something. Man. Man, I would probably say... Damn. That's kind of so cool. Steve Austin, run that lady over.
I don't know. That's a tough one. Maybe I might have had Charlotte Flair go over. Yeah, that was my pick. I might have had Charlotte Flair go over. I feel a little bit awkward picking it. Yeah, I might have had her go over. Tiffany won, but she didn't look like a champ. And they didn't really...
They didn't really have great chemistry out there, and I'm not sure that was all the way one person's fault or the other. But if I had to pick something, just for the sake of the exercise, it would probably be that. I don't think you can convince me on possibly getting some more mileage out of Naomi beating Jade, too. That could have been something.
I mean, if they're not going to run it back, then that was a bad decision. Right. But they're running it back right away, it looks like. So I'm not mad at that. Yeah. Maybe I just don't have Travis Scott involved in this match at all. That's, I think, what I would do. I mean, what a mess.
Like, have Travis got to come out to celebrate and all that type of stuff. Or have him get involved. Have him get involved. He doesn't need a 20-minute entrance, you know? Yeah, yeah. That's probably where I'm at with it. And seriously, I think I said this last week.
But imagine if The Rock's music hit and John Cena got on the microphone and was like, no, no, no, no. I'm doing this without any help. And the only reason The Rock wasn't there, they gave John Cena the heat for not allowing The Rock to... Like that would have been something at least. Are you allowed to play The Rock's music if The Rock's not there? Like would The Rock be upset if you teased him? Mm-hmm.
I don't know the rock from a hole in the wall, but I'm willing to bet he'd be hyper pissed off. But he already did the same thing. He spent the past, he was at Elimination Chamber, set up the main event, and then chose to not tell anybody he wasn't going to be there.
right i mean isn't that basically i listen i agree with you that he would be upset but i'm telling you this is the argument i would make against him well you let everybody think you were going to be there like what what did you do true but This is why I think that backstage beef in between Hunter and Rock is deeper than rap, man. I think it's deeper than rap. Wow. It's deeper than rap.
Yeah, it might be. It might be. Hopefully, we'll learn more about that in the upcoming imaginary documentary about WrestleMania 41 anyway. Kaz, you want to get your plugs in? Yeah, man. Catch me on Fanatic Sportsbook. Catch me on 7 p.m. in Brooklyn this week. Got some great special guests. Hey, that's all I'm plugging, man. That's good. No more party promotion for you at the moment. No party shows. Nothing to promote yet.
I like that. You can find me here. You can find me on the press box. Special PSA, no worldwide. Worldwide is going on a bit of a break, but we're going to have some more exciting stuff for you in that slot very, very soon. Much love, of course, always to Kyle Davenport, to our EP, Ben Cruz. And to the producer of this episode, Brian H. Waters. Super producer, Brian H. Waters. Thank you for doing this, man. Thank you all for listening.
Finn Balor is going to be okay. Especially on TikTok. He's doing great on TikTok for us. Go check those clips out. Ringer Wrestling everywhere. Check out those videos. We'll see you back here on Thursday, humanoids. Peace.