The Verriables: 2024-25 NBA Season | Group Chat

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Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin barrier in standing before me on the eve of the 2024 2025 NBA season Rob Mahoney. I now have to crane my neck over to say hello to big was. Your life is so hard. We are at the spotify studios. There's just a whole lot of people here coming into town, but here we are just grinding. Well, we get first dibs on studio space. We all know that. That's true. Straight to the front of the line. There's nobody more important in podcasting than us.

I was talking to producer Victoria just now saying today felt like the first day of school Rob had his growth spurt. You know Isaiah put on 15 pounds of muscle. I have new shoes. They look clean. This is a really cool feeling man to be back with you guys. Yeah, and if you're watching this on video maybe on YouTube you could see me as I look over it Rob and then when I look over it was it takes maybe two seconds to get there. This is the most basic part of your job.

We've sat in this exact formation. I haven't liked it before. So many times I sat on this cry for months. That's you know exactly barrier has to let his. Pleasure be known so that's podcasting baby. That's the business if you insist. So not only are we about to enter a new season but today is also a very special day for the group chat podcast.

Is it because it is part three I think of the variables we're back. What is a variable. I don't know how was it felt. We still don't know. In fact, we spelt it the way you wanted to last time. I think we're going back to the original spelling this time. How did I want to spell. I think you wanted the full barrier and then a ball barrier. Rebels. Yes, very. I think it's a bit of it. If it's very. Rebels to me. But I think it's the same bit especially in an audio format.

I defer to your expertise as the leader of the variables. That's right. That's right. The core member of the variables. So we'll get into four big old questions that might define this MBA season. First, we got to talk about some rookie extensions because as we were walking in here, we got some news coming in there had been four leading into today for guys from the class of what is it 20 22 2021 2021

who had signed extensions over the summer. Those were all max extensions. Now we're getting some of the more interesting ones starting with Jalen green three years, 106 million dollars with the player option on the third year. He's 22 years old.

So he could theoretically get back on the market 24 25 years old. Well, it's kind of weird. What do you think? Super weird because I was thinking to myself if I'm Jalen green and how a lot of these high pet agreed players think of themselves and we'll get to another one of these guys who didn't end up getting an extension is like, you know, Franz Wagner went out and got 224 million dollars from Jalen green. I got to think I can give 180.

Right. Like, I can get 190 if Franz Wagner who he probably conceives of himself as a more talented player can get all of that money. Why shouldn't he the problem for Jalen green is just he's never put that tape out like it just he just hasn't put that much quality MBA minutes out. And the times that he did it was like it was March. It was like February. It's like three weeks. Yeah. Yeah, like, you know, people who watch the NBA closely know that like that's around the time.

That's around the time that all the teams that know their season is over just stop caring. And so guys that are playing hard playing like they have, you know, something to win. Whether it be on the court or off.

So, you know, I think it's like 10 to shine in that in that situation and it might not be indicative of like some greater trend for the player. And so Jalen green has not done that much, but I think on his potential not just where he was drafted his measurable in terms of his athleticism and explosiveness.

You know, he probably is a guy worth taking a shot on just not the kind of shot that earns you max money with max years. Well, the big difference to between the guys who are really getting paid right now and Jalen green is those guys off super well rounded games.

Yeah, they're really good defenders. They're really good playmakers. Jalen green were waiting to see kind of what the contours of his game are going to be. How good of a pastor is he going to be? Is he going to be more of a primary or more of a second area or more of a tertiary or like hot hot guard coming off the bench potentially.

He's a variable, might say for perhaps I think the other guys who who landed the max is also have proven enough at this point. Scottie Barnes obviously paid cutting him on the verge there. Evan mobility was like a defensive player the year can do. Even though we have grabs about his offensive games. These are guys who are clearly cemented themselves as players in this league green were still not sure. Maybe he could be a star. Maybe he could be a bus. I'm not sure like was said he only had about a month or so of good play there toward the end of last season.

I think my thing is like if he does show himself to be a star caliber within the means like under this contract in the next two or so years three years because it's this year plus the next two. Then he just walks as like right in his prime 20 something year old player like I can't remember the last guy who did that.

So I'm sure this deal to me from a rocket perspective makes it feel like a trade would be coming potentially sure I mean it's clearly not a long term investment I assume just because they couldn't agree on the dollar figure and so up front. Jalen greens not making as much money as perhaps he would want.

But you're not getting that long term commitment you're getting the potential opt out and from Jalen greens perspective you're getting a chance to come into this season which anything could happen with you since rotation. He's going to have to find his place in it. He they're going to sort out what kind of team they want to be and if a trade does go down.

He'll have a little time left to prove himself before he can hit the market again. I think for him that's not a bad situation considering the sort of rocky start to his NBA career. I think it's interesting that the rockets and Jalen green are making. It's somewhat opposing bets right. It's I think Jalen greens admission that you know the maxi season that we got last year is not coming from him.

Like I think he just like you have to see it that way is like oh I'll be willing to hit restricted free agency. If somebody's going to max the hell out of me because I have a bona fide all star season coming up but that's there's believing you are that guy and there's believing you're going to get the chance to be that guy again. And those are I think for the rockets especially kind of different things. Yeah and I think the rockets are like well I guess there's a chance.

So let's lock them in for something way under that right now it's just those are just two competing ideas to me where it's like the rockets are like there's a small chance that it might happen. Jalen green basically saying is none. So I'm going to take this deal right now and bet that with two more years to show why actually am I can get a contract that's you know commiserate with my actual abilities.

It feels also notable and relevant that Shams was reporting that the rockets are not offering up in shankoon who's also eligible for an extension max money. And so clearly there's some haggling to be done there and I think some definition as far as like what the future of this team is you know maybe Jalen green is the face of it maybe shankoon is the face of it maybe they're both there long term ultimately we don't know.

But they're not making the Franz Wagner Kate Cunningham global commitment to shankoon despite the fact that he's one of the most productive players in this draft class. Yeah I assume the rockets would go through this period without signing either of those guys in order to preserve cap space going into next summer and then extend off of that.

Now it's a little bit more complicated where they're doing kind of a half measure maybe green was like insistent that he get paid now and this sort of short term agreement is some sort of middle ground between the two it's just like it's really weird it reminds me a lot of like Joe Johnson coming off the sons and all of a sudden he's like a max player in his mid 20s like we don't see this in 2024 2025 NBA.

And so it's like a it's a whole new wrinkle here so I'm I'm interested to see how it pays out honestly I don't see where green like stays and becomes a star there long term but I guess we'll see. Why don't we talk about the warriors because they had two bits of news here one that did sign most this moody to three years 39 million dollars he is presumably going to play minutes this year.

We'll see we'll see but John think we've been here before I know John think mingo will play minutes will start but he's not going to get an extension according to ESPN so little weird. I think it's just shows you the nuances of the NBA business structure where a guy who gets treated as an aftermath I mean excuse me aftermath after thought.

Last year and moody could get a deal done right come in and in the worries like no we're going to take care of your contract like let's figure this out even if coming to once to take three years 39 million. I imagine they would accept that sure but they were like no we can get you done right even though you were completely marginalized by the end of last season almost to the point of like people like is this guy even going to be on the team next year kind of thing where's come

you know he he kind of potted his way into a starting position on last year's team and the warriors don't make it a point to make sure they lock him in which shows me that like I think they're obviously at an impasse in terms of where they think his value is.

And I just think that's that's interesting like the guy who has a definitely going to start definitely going to get heavy minutes can't get a deal but moody who didn't matter at all yeah gets a deal they kind of can't win without him right now.

John thing means a really important warrior and at the same time you know true to this conversation one of the hardest players I would say in the entire league to peg a dollar value to just say this is what we're comfortable paying this guy within even our system. And the value is so very I'm just stepping in it so bearable you're ready for it depending on your game.

Yeah but even in a trade value context understanding like what other teams think of Jonathan Cummings the range is incredibly wide. Yeah I mean and also he seems like he wants to play more three he's putting up more threes I don't know how that's going to go it seems like he's constantly in this battle of being the big man like the hyper athletic big man that he is versus the player that he wants to be which is this is much more.

Sexy wings sort of player that sells sneakers and whatnot I just don't know if we'll ever be that player and so I can see those two things coming to a collision over a contract so I'm not surprised. Also if you need to trade him for a star package this season it gives the next team the ability to figure that out I assume they'll just end up in the same place but we'll see.

Far as moody it's like 13 million dollars a year that's like totally fine money that's not even stars money especially at the position he plays and so again like I think you just take that just a bit less than mid level. Yeah money.

Oh yeah totally reasonable and these are the kinds of extensions we see it's usually the high end guys the star the clear stars and then like what role players can we make something work on and that's why you know we're taping this a little in advance of the extension deadline.

I would not be surprised to see Isaiah Jackson Corey Kispert like those guys could get reasonable deals on extensions but the Cumonga's are not like not because they're not good players but because it doesn't be who them to lock themselves in last guy as we record this train Murphy four years 112 million pretty good yeah so that's like 28 million dollars a year that could be a lower end of where he ends up if he does pop this year he is hurt right now so we'll see but I think the big thing is just bringing him like if you're in that's.

What the fuck again again nobody in their right mind would say that trade Murphy the third is a better player than Brandon Ingram but because of how salaries is structured in NBA it's just easier to get this role player done and the four year commitment no player options or anything like that like this is good business I think at 28 million per I think trade Murphy could have probably if you really wanted to fight and wait to hit the over market probably get like.

35 but the security of locking himself in for four years is very tantalizing so he took it. Um especially a guy who's had some injury issues. Yeah not you know I get the bet just from a value standpoint from a security standpoint lock in the money see what you can do going forward I think he has a lot of potential but before the pelicans play you at center.

And you know these three and D guys who are more on the three side than the D where like I feel like most teams is just like look if you could be passable on the wing and shoot the way this guy does like you are extremely valuable commodity to any team that thinks they're trying to contend and so like this deal makes all the sense.

Alright next one on the list jailing Sugs yet another Orlando magic extension they're just making a rain out there five years 150.5 million got to get that point five in there so about 30 million dollars a year yeah so less than jailing green per year still a lot of money but this seems like a pretty reasonable deal for a guy who seems like he's part of their identity in core totally I think when you put it in context this is.

Devon Vacelle Jaden McDaniel's kind of money that seems reasonable for me for one of the best wing defenders in the league like an absolute bulldog out there really good off ball playing the lanes defensively I think showed last year which is like his first remotely healthy season that he still has a room to grow offensively so I like the investment for him yeah.

So one obviously that role of being the sort of head of the snake of a team that prods itself on being defense first like he's integral to how like their style of defense they can be that aggressive because they have somebody like him at the point of attack and I think this contract is a reward for finally making his shots last year yeah you know he's close to 40% on three which is like his rookie year like I think we were like pretty bullish on him but.

Like it wasn't because he was showing right any of the stuff on offense and he finally showed and I think you know these one of those classic you know knows for the ball hard knows low maintenance kind of guys and he fits in with the crew I get a he's super complimentary to the two guys that they've already invested in as the future and so it makes sense that it's like look he's going to be our starting point guard and this is what starting point guards get so.

So I think he's also quite as kept really important to the sort of like vibe and physicality of that teams and so if you want to keep the good energy going in the momentum going this is part of what you do is you you take care of the guys who got you here and yeah there's stuff to sort out later you sort it out later one of the rare guys who didn't live up to who we thought he would be pre-jaff but found like a nice little midfirm that is still super valuable and if anything this contract on a potential bargain might make a more valuable than Bob.

So if you're more valuable than Wagner making the full max you know and like if they ever get into a situation where they have to trade one I wonder if that sort of financial difference makes a bit of a difference in who they choose one of the other last one here Corey Kespere in Washington this is what happens when you play good basketball for a couple months you get four years before million dollars obviously look more like the three and these sort of guy last year that we all thought he might be or at least the three part I guess it pays to hit your three.

I think he's more than just three though like he's actually a really good cutter I think he can handle a little bit he's just like showing enough other things to make me feel like he's not just a guy you stash in the corner or or even just the guy you run off of screens into like off ball jumpers I think he's got enough going for him and honestly just like one of the more reliable wizards overall and so for the sake of continuing anything that you had going and especially because it's a really valuable player type why not.

Yeah I just love that he was able to get him up at volume especially when a team like the wizards was not like there's a lot of guys setting you up and putting you position to get these quality looks off and so that he was managing to get off like over six three's a game is crazy and you know super accurate at that and so like yeah that's a valuable commodity obviously nobody's going to ask him to you know dribble the air out the ball anytime soon but you know what I'm saying is that the guy is going to be a great player.

But you know he's a physical guy to he's like he's not a small person for his position which helps you know so you know it's a great deal for him he got moody money essentially it's a little bit more probably because he's more in line for a star position than the moody but like this is what shooters get in the NBA this morning

and he's going to be money sounds pretty good yeah do you guys want to rank the most reliable wizards I mean now the Denny's gone us it's a blitz drop off his fast Valentinus one kiss per I think Kuzma is the most reliable yeah I think Valentinus is to what about Vukchavitch we don't know if he's sad he's so on it.

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It doesn't matter if you tap into Fandall before the game starts or after it has already tipped off so we're waiting for tip off of the NBA season coming on Tuesday and so we're looking at those awards odds we talked about them today on group chat.

How about this one Kate Cunningham most improved player of the year plus twenty five hundred those are pretty good odds Kate already had a pretty good season last year obviously the business did not so I'm thinking the pistons play a little bit better his numbers go up with some actual shooters on that team maybe is like twenty five and eight twenty five and ten get some double doubles in there get the hype train going I kind of like him because he's the type of guy who wins that

so like that and whether you want to ride with my picks or have a hunch on your own now is the perfect time to get in on the action just visit fandall dot com slash ringer NBA for your chance to win $300 in bonus bets have a ball betting ball with fandall official sports book partner of the NBA

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this episode of supported by state farm man I'm one I first got into a car accident it was pure frustration because I did not have state farm and I do have state farm it is an exclamation of pure joy

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I wasn't expecting thrash man I gotta be honest I don't know what I was expecting but you look you're a true takes men and a true artist because you come back every year the vibe is a little different genre shifting constantly under our feet I never know what to expect from the variables I think I googled death core drop and this was among the options of death core so how you guys feel about variables death core

yeah where do you hide oh yeah mom super fired about a death core where do you want to start all right first and foremost a wide open MVP race you ever been a metalhead of any kind no I wouldn't say metalhead no like we know that sort of I was yeah so I was like I wore the studded belt but then I had American eagle on top of it

so it was like the full mall set topic but also America yeah I was just a little glimmer of edge you know kind of describes me when you said I would say so it's very accurate okay so MVP race obviously you know it's gonna be in the mix again and be probably not because he won't play enough games but I assume voter for to go said it especially for you

and so I'm expecting what could be a pretty thick MVP race I assume it's going to be somebody different do you guys feel the same or do you think like you still has a chance because he's one three out for it at this point I think he's one of four guys who I can actually see winning it okay and I would say the list of guys who could be on the ballot is much deeper and that's where it gets really thick but in terms of guys who can actually win MVP

Yo get so I think overall the voting will be a little reluctant to give him another one especially if the nuggets aren't as good as they were last year which we don't expect them to be Shay Luca Janus I think those are the guys who I could see it anyone else I kind of need to be talked into a little bit

yeah I think the fringes of guys it's the kind of guys who have finished fifth in the past the tatum the jalen brunson's the jama rants those guys I think are on the fringes of the conversation for obvious reasons like they just don't put out the sheer production that the top four guys that you just mentioned do but if they have the right kind of magical season I could see them you know vaulting themselves to the top of this list it would be tough yeah

you know a lot of things would have to go wrong for the guys that are in front of them but you know if the nicks somehow went 62 games in jalen brunson is like you know the pie piper of all of that like people like the narrative swell around it man will be unbearable and unstoppable you know like I don't foresee them when it's 62 games but if everything broke right for them in terms of injury luck

yeah you know you could see that happening potentially and same with jama rant right if Memphis comes out and just completely reestablishes themselves at the top of the west and obviously that's going to be because jai is playing incredibly well the same thing that happened in you know you know the talk about the f you season coming from tatum because he didn't play over the brawn in kd

uh in the Olympics we didn't play over dark white sure but they played different positions but I'm just saying like we've heard that talk coming out of boss so maybe Jason Tatum has that kind of season and Boston as a team has an f you season goes out and wins 67 games or whatever the hell it is

and um yeah I could like if they do something like that I can see people like look man we've disrespected tatum enough you know Boston media going nuts and I can see that happening but those guys are on the fringes I think the guys Rob mentioned are at the forefront of that combo well so it's an f you season but also words are just words guys that's right they have no power unless you give them power

there's no pressure as well there's no pressure because we're all going to die soon as Joe Maz has been on a heater my favorite thing of that like press chrome was he was saying that you know at his funeral in 40 years none of the reporters are invited I want you guys to know in advance you're both invited to my funeral okay I just want to get that out there if I don't attend would you be mad I mean I'm dead well you know I'm hot me from the grape you have I know

so I think tatum yeah it has to be at least mentioned I think Brunson is the one if you want to enter him into the top chair I just think like the pathway there is always you think New York is a buzz after the liberties title just wait until the nix get there it would be it would be insane I do think

you know what we're talking about these is like these four guys and then maybe Brunson cracks or maybe Tatum cracks it I don't even mean in the sense that those guys would end up at fifth on the ballot like Jalen Brunson could be on the ballot by the end of the thing I think you win it I especially with the injuries especially with McHale Bridges not being able to shoot anymore yeah

this is going to be points at this point we got to talk about that I I think the broader conversation as far as these guys go is who else can kind of storm storm the party storm the ballot obviously Brunson and Tatum are among them I think there's a world in which like AD or LeBron if the

Lakers have an amazing season would have the reputation to do it like there is a certain voter demographic that is waiting to vote for LeBron yes and those and he will get votes for that reason and he's a fucking awesome player like he's a really good player and if they're any good he will get votes I think there's a world or when he gets votes this season as like a fifth place MVP that's right we mentioned jaw I think there's a world where Steph gets votes I think

there's a world where Katie gets votes I don't see those guys winning it sure and in beat honestly it would be very fitting and kind of funny if the year he really doesn't care about winning it he ends up winning like like 67 games right because he doesn't hold on to it so so tightly yeah so who are you guys picking though I'm picking Luca yeah I think they're going to have close to as many wins is OK say I know everybody thinks OK he's just going to come out

and blow the doors off with people especially in a regular season but I think Dallas is going to be a really good regular season team hungry and he's going to get the ball off of the finals and I just think is sheer production and output is going to outpace

shades going to outpace even Yoke inches right even Yannis is and so that's why I think he's going to win MVP this year the win total is going to match it yes his own production which is always sky high and that's the thing like he already met the

one so his case in a lot of ways is the most straight forward the production is unimpeachable the record I agree will be better and will be a little more commensurate like what MVP's usually are coming from which is you know top four or five seed you know like with a really good weight

like a competitive win total relative to the top of the conference yes I think he's going to be there so an NBA history there are only 15 instances of 27 points eight rebounds eight assists Luca already has five of that wow he's actually getting better as he goes along scoring more like

Irie hasn't cut into his numbers the way where that's a concern yeah I think if they win enough games he wins it since we're doing just awards ballots who do you guys have you want to do most improve most improves kind of bullshit but it's always kind of

bullshit I have giddy down just because I think he's going to be pretty good there interesting I he's who I think I want to win but it typically just goes to a player who scores more yeah and so I think Kate cutting him might actually win it I can see that just

puts up 20 and 10 every game they win enough they're like okay it's a guy I guess his numbers are already pretty good that it's just like the game total wasn't there yeah I picked mellow ball if he comes out and he drops like 25 26 a game which is

completely possible on his horrible last team I can see voters being like any any place right like if you plays the 67 games averages 26 you know is obviously you know like a fringe all star voters are going to be like oh my god he broke out when really it's like he's playing actually and so it's such a wonky award that's why I had mellow ball because I can see the production actually from him this year it's super wonky I don't like picking young players for this but I think we're going to be

talking about Jalen Williams very differently at the end of this year sometimes you can just kind of feel it in the air a little bit and he had moments in that Dallas series where he kind of got lost lost in the mix but overall I think still played a really smart playoff overall still played really solidly all throughout good two way player I just think he has a lot going for him he's the type of guy who wins it yeah so I can see that defensive player of the

year we all want to be so I said if what I know what I had what I had put down I was like if I had any balls I would pick a mobility actually because I can see that getting the calves you're going now you're taking it's not my guy it's just I just I just know how voters think and if the calves have a dominant regular season finishing the top two say in the east and you know they continue to have one of the

better defenses in the league I could see voters being like look at all the rules wins they're going to win the games in San Antonio right and they did them saying like mobility is the anchor of the defense blah blah blah blah he is the anchor of the defense right not just saying I know I'm just I'm just literally just talking out loud with voters too but then I was just like who am I freaking kidding like it's not even just that when B is a

great defensive player already this that he's already getting the national TV looks he's like like the narrative swell around him is already happening so it's definitely going to be Wembee but if you know if I was like going to put some money on it to get some like nice expected value in the turn good I'd be a mobile okay it's going to be Wembee though I think Wembee might win the next 10 do you remember simpler times in the summer of 2023 when was bravely camped out on the first on the corner

that Wembee was not going to be good I don't remember that I do not remember that I said it was possible I was better okay that's it was possible now you camping out on the corner that maybe Josh Gidey wasn't all that yeah you might be right listen I'll be right we'll see I was a pioneer in that

what was in Josh Gidey has 16 8 and 8 this year on a really bad team for the 23rd ranked offense let's go can I just tell you guys something it's just three of us yeah yeah I kind of like the bulls this year oh my god did you see Lonzo ball back up there that's fun but it also like when he plays

they make sense in a way that they did when he last played that's true he just like automatically almost like by muscle memory ran like a little pick and roll with Levine where he gave him the ball he instantly rolled and was open and I'm just like holy shit like even Levine seems

more dangerous when he's doing that he's just like constantly moving and when you have all of those guys Levine white gidey like those are just like big wings who move and move the ball yeah like I see the theory I don't think it's necessarily going to work on a high level but like

could be a plan team high level planning I mean they look the threshold in the east is pretty low for that kind of thing so I'm not totally ruling it out I just I don't love the roster I do love Lonzo I do love elements of their love Lonzo I'm interested to see what they've got

honestly I'm interested to see what Josh Gidey has got I'm talking down to him a little bit but I think we're all curious to see what he could do if you give him a lot a lot of leash yeah I just am not convinced it's a plan team yeah all right six minute a year well

as you get again I had my balls take which was doux McBride yeah um that's what I have by the way but I think it's like split take like you got to pick a guy that's what we're doing I'm saying like I have the ability to be interesting but ultimately be you be

interested ultimately I'm thinking Malik Monk I think like he's just such a proven because he's like this errors Jamal Crawford yeah in the sense that no matter where he's at what the context is like he's gonna get buckets period and that's what this award always

comes down to it's like non starter who's always scoring and that's Malik Monk and so I think he's gonna win the award again I think he's gonna like far outpaced doux McBride in terms of outputs so like I don't I don't even think it's close I don't even think the New

York overhype factor can't even help um doux McBride here what if I said to you this was the one year we're not just gonna give it to the reserve that scores the most points I would say good luck you're right but I want to believe in a future where that's sure I

want vengeance for like the Andre Iguodala non-foad I did my part officially and unofficially Andre Iguodala should have been six man of the year it's ridiculous that he never was if we as a society have evolved to the point that we haven't but what if we did that we

could get Alex Caruso six man of the year if you're an all a first team all NBA defender who's shooting 40% on threes as he did last year we'll see for a contender I just don't see how you're not one of the best reserves in basketball yeah so I think Caruso is the

kind of NBA player who could buck the normal what do you mean by that I think he's got a lot of admirers amongst our media cohort myself included by the way I've been driving Caruso trained for freaking four or five years now fellow bald guy never strong union I just

think Caruso definitely is the kind of guy who could buck that trend especially if he plays on a team that just outpaces even their own expectations right which is like you know close to 60 wins are they getting high 60s somehow this year and he's that spark plug guy

off the bench he could definitely do it here's my concern with Caruso will he start too much now especially if heart and steam is hurt we'll see that would be that I also think there's a chance it door like his shooting just falls off a cliff probably supplants him

in the starting line up probably more of a playoff thing than a regular season thing but like you know cruises the more reliable option so I could see that but that's a good pick I have to make pride we've talked about this in the past I just I think they have six good players

the next two some of whom might not be able to shoot out and so I think make pride is going to play probably 30-ish minutes and he's going to be relied on to be one of their best scores yeah the pathways there Rookie of the Year I think we talked about this last show

Zach Edie you guess of Edie I have shepherd support the stash coach of the year Rob actually think juma zoolah can get it I don't see what the team is that's going to have the huge win total jump other than Memphis and that's not really a Taylor Jenkins issue

although I think he's a solid coach and so if you don't have the huge win jump usually it's almost more of a retroactive award and I think there is a growing consensus around the work that juma zoolah did last year obviously and if they can get through

this season in one piece managing all of their various injury concerns with porzinga out with you know our horfords minutes with Drew holidays minutes all the stuff going on and still be the number one seed in the east I think he's got a really strong case my pick is Kenny Ackinson just because the calves like it's the only change that they will have made have you seen what he's doing with Evan mobility just to say like actually letting him do stuff actually letting him be a basketball player

yeah letting him cook I think I think we're in for a good a good time with that both Evan mobile and the calves the calves like it's difficult right because they made so many improvements when a lot of their guys went down but they a lot of their guys didn't play like close to 30 games like each of

their three best players missed like around 28 games last year and so you know just the added that those guys would play more and the team is going to improve and that being the only change that happened this off season is having your guys actually play more and just changing the coach I think

Ackinson will get a lot of the credit if they do improve upon the team so yeah that's my big Kenny Ackinson Ackinson's a good one you're right like it's Taylor made for him to win it because if he just if they do better it's

because of him yeah Max truce out for a couple weeks how did you feel it I was thinking about putting on a jersey just like the fan play Thompson I have spoke yeah Eric Bolster has never won coach of the year and so much like Greg pop of which before I'm going to predict and then vote for him every

year because he deserves one he's probably one of the best coaches of the past decade I think he could make some magic happen I think that the he have some stuff to over exceed expectations with the expectations are playing I can see them as like at the 6th seed you see maybe that's not enough wins

is typically goes to the best team not the best coach but I think he deserves recognition but I think if they end up supplanting one of these other really good Eastern conference teams like the calves or the bucks or the magic like I think

you would have to tip your cap to the work that's what he's doing as as we often do yeah all right next one maker break teams for someone who's engineered this bit you have not head banged a single time I gotta mean into it more as I think you got to I've been doing this Sabrina

I an ask you like head like the face like arms old man that's the face you make when you go one for 19 and the nation game or I mean the variables yeah all right so the teams kind of out of crossroads wants to go first speaking of the Milwaukee bucks yeah person foremost yeah I

think they got to be there this quote from Janice pop recently from an interview with Sam Amick if we don't win a championship I might get traded yes this is the job we live this is the world we're living in it's everybody I don't

know if that's true unless he wants it to be true why does he keep doing this did this to the top with the times right before he like they traded for for game and then you got the extension locked in he's just a little too quiet and I don't think he's doing it intentionally just seems like a weird

guy that weird he's a weird guy about like his leadership sex with this white all the time he talks about like having like boners like very publicly is the maturity of like a five-row he's great I love the first movie bit but I think Janice's leadership style is weird

because I think it's intention with somebody who knows that he's supposed to be playing a part but just isn't great at it right and you know like I've watched a little bit of the starting five like LeBron is so good at it that we all know it's fake where's Janice is like just not good at it

at all he knows there's like certain things that he's supposed to say and he knows what's the most project and he tries it but like when he's like there's no such thing as failure what's failure yeah he doesn't do the political theater yeah he just he's just not gifted at it and him coming out

and saying like I might get traded I think his recognition that like the core of this team is not a secure one yes right like let's just say OK see comes out and somehow loses in the first round this year no one is going to be like break up the thunder like it's not happening like they they

are who they are same with Boston at this point especially after the championship some fluke think that happened nobody's going to be like these guys have to be broken up finally I know we did it for years but we're not doing that I think the bugs are not that if this does not work this year a

lot of people going to have questions to answer the age of the team and then the superstar is like you know he did resign with Milwaukee two times but there was all kinds of buzz around him before those signings that he might be packing his bags to get out of there and so this definitely make a

break for them will Chris middle put tin play not opening night apparently I missed that yeah for opening night well I think you know maybe we'll see him sooner than later but the rehab continues to pace if this season doesn't go well from Milwaukee you would have to think middle tin brook damn all

those guys could not be long for being in a bucks uniform beyond that you could see dock getting fired after a season like this you could see John Horst who's engineered a lot of this being out one way or another and yeah you could see on this whether by his I imagine we have to be by his choice by

his call moving on if you wanted to do that I let's play it out and see how they do because ultimately they still do have a dominant starting five I really like the fit of some of the guys that they brought I think Gary trend junior makes a lot of sense there but they're dicey they're really shallow you could absolutely see them having a worst case scenario season and a lot of people losing their jobs or losing losing their spot on the team because of it

what do we think would lead to a mass change would it be not getting out of the second round because I think we probably are all agree that they will probably be decent enough in the regular season to have maybe top four top six seed right I think if they get bounced in the first round yes but if they make to the second round that seems reasonable considering the way that used to stack but I don't know what's reasonable for more there's reasonable and what's

reasonable to Yannis and when you and frankly what's reasonable when you have a player like Yannis I think it's going to matter how it looks yep if it doesn't look dysfunctional and they lose on the second round and it's like you know a team is just playing better than they play but they

work competitive and all of that I think it'll be fine but if they look like none of these pieces makes sense together the way that they did at times last year this is going to be like we gave this two years and at no point did how we conceived of this come the fruition so we got to do

something else that's what I think is going to be the key how does it look yeah or if they look like they can't stay healthy I think that would be another thing to push them over the edge any other teams to mention here the suns yeah the suns you know their new ownership came in spent a

bunch of money talked about how money is no object and we don't care and all of that stuff but the bottom line is money matters it even eventually matter to Steve Balmer who's Richard and every owner and NBA combined and so the idea that this dude's going to come in and be fine with spending

money for a product that consistently underachieves like that's going to come in a question and then of course as everybody knows they have the most mercurial superstar in the league this guy is very fickle about how he feels about his situation at any given time and so like this idea that you can

count on KD being happy no matter what the results are okay like we're talking about coming off of you know championships back to the he was coming off a back to back championships in Golden State and was like I'm not feeling it and Brooklyn a situation that he basically single

handily orchestrated in terms of superstar teammates and a coach and organization that just cow down to him at every second was like I'm done being here I don't want to mess with this no more so the idea that he's with the sons and he's going to be like I'm just at home in Phoenix right now like

there's no reason to believe that so I think the sons are definitely a make a break candidates 235 million dollar roster not including the tax that's this year that's this year you're next year is how bad 253 million dollars and so the Celtics who we've talked about they're so

expensive that they needed to literally break up the team or sell the team in addition to that 278 well the good news is the sons might be Lehman brothers they might have to just go away nobody looked too closely at the books over there yeah the good news is they don't have young players that are

waiting to be paid you know there's no like extension waiting to burst the money is on the table and we're going to see if the money is good now I kind of think they're going to be a really good team this year yep they have the

makings of it on the other hand Katie also a free agent after next season so notable that's an added wrinkle there I also have the heat down here if only just because all the Jimmy stuff yeah yeah it's very messy I also have the calves I think we're all pretty high on them but I think if we're like

sticking to the maker break definition if this doesn't work they're going to break sure and so they will break at least parts off in order to form a different team that makes sense anybody else I think the sixers are worthy of

note not because I don't think I don't think they're in danger of breaking anything up yet a lot of it is still so new but they just breaking the will of their families maybe or their tendons to L&B is 30 years old and if you're not contending every year that your MVP caliber guy is in his early

30s it's kind of a failure in its own way so there's a lot of pressure on them even if they are necessarily a maker break candidate here's my questions just overall with some of these teams do we think help is coming for teams that need like an extra move because I was thinking about the warriors

in this regard clearly kind of biting their time with some of these mid-tier options body healed etc until they could land a superstar for staff seems like they're very much in that market or at least want people to think that they're in that market I just don't know with the new CBA seems like things are going to get more restrictive as we go into the season because we as we saw the the next cap gymnastics pretty successfully in order to get towns now fewer roster spots

it's just like it seems more difficult and so I wonder if like the big help is coming at the deadline as teams tend to like talk themselves into at this point of the season maybe I don't know it's an interesting question unless that big help is a Zach Levine there's that too like who's the guy

yeah that's that's what the problem is to me it's like the guys that are actually available have been available so you see a comment yeah and even with towns where it was like you know it was I think it was surprising that the Nick so the ones who ultimately pulled the trigger but I'm

not surprised Minnesota traded him no he was always going to be the first person out of town whenever they felt like we can move on from this iteration of the roster and so nobody's coming out of left field with some I don't even I don't even know the contours of a trade for like a remarkable player it's just not going to happen. Kauai if he's healthy he plays five games get fuck out.

Zach Kram said okay he should try to do it they got enough depth if they were like look man we only need you for 15 games in the playoffs Jesus Krami that's a mercenary shit that honestly would be like really inspired by us so not the way they don't operate like I'll tell you what I'd rather the pick that they're getting this year oh yeah that's that's Blake sorry Kauai who's for some reason in a pretty good way to get a good one and then I'm going to NBA commercial for the season

was the best odds on his A player in the NBA that's for sure that's for sure all right number three breakthroughs that's better that's better you're you're leaning into the the appropriate degree so we're talking about players now on the verge of a breakthrough and we're

gonna segment this into four separate tiers thanks to our friend Rob for for bringing this to the table you're welcome so our scale is dude guy player thing and that's from best to least best yes a dude is I mean you're that dude you're dude you're that dude your guy is pretty good you're a guy

yeah I think my my threshold is like dude is all in B.A. kind of caliber yes a guy is all star maybe ranging down into like really good player really good starter guy you can depend on in huge moments I think all that qualifies a player

a decent guy in a rotation who's gonna be able to stop a minutes rotation worthy of note on the radar and a thing is like we're just starting to kind of blip you know we're oh isn't that interesting that this prospect got minutes for the first time that's kind of what I'm thinking of not as we're

talking about things do you want to quickly pour one out for for your guy mark was it Marvin levy not Malify Leones yeah it's tough but look I'm hoping this is ultimately an in-road to get him to the O.K.C. believe I was about to say can we do even what happens to him I missed

he bit of news somehow he got cut oh tough I potted about him and he immediately got cut tough or a lot our friend you know our Dutch brother really do our aren't our true friends the guys we named along the way that's true it's a good point do we start with dudes I think you start with dudes so it's like a a guy who could become a dude right yeah so I look at a little bit differently like dude I thought was like top 10 15 player that's all in the air yeah

but I'm talking about like if you're doing a player ranking like for instance Jalen Williams good good test case I have him as a guy not a dude I have a mess dude but he could be coming to you could be a guy but I think he's going to be an all star not all NBA so maybe that is the distinction yeah I think we're on the same page okay okay but you guys have a mess of dude dude big major dude potential I thought about him as a guy who could become a dude

for sure I think that's kind of the the air he's in right now yeah because O.K.C. has one guy who can be like their ball dominant showstopping creator and that's Shay he's like a obviously MVP can't like Shay Shay like we like we already know all the superlatives but they need somebody else to

take those duties like they're not trying to be a Dallas Maverick type of team or there I said Atlanta Hawks type of team where we have the one guy who does every single thing on offense and everything revolves around and everybody sort of orbiting around it they want to be more dynamic than that

and the way the fastest way to that besides check getting some more on ball stuff which I think he's deserving of it's got to be Jalen Williams yeah who turns into that quintessential secondary guy the you know Jalen Brown to as GAs Jason Tatum right that's what they're counting on I think

when you see the construction of the team that's another reason why they was like Sayonara Josh kitty you ain't that guy you know I'm close to that guy there's 23 usage percentage points that have to be redistributed yeah Jalen Williams will get will get a lot of them and I think the fact that he plays at his own pace in a way that's very hard to speed up and very hard to take him out of it makes me think he's really qualified to continue to do that at higher dosage

in higher usage he's also a guy who you're starting to hear the rumblings around the league among other young players that are like I'm watching J W tape like I'm trying to see what that guy does because I want to incorporate those

elements into my game and to me that suggests like he's a guy who I mean has already taken a certain leap but really could take another one yeah 54 43 81 efficiency last year it's like fucking good unreal yeah other dude I have in the mix here Zion Williamson maybe already a dude

yeah to me already a dude but me I do do place yeah you got to prove your play so that stretch um of possessions before he went down in the playing game he was just dominant he was dominant that's playing on the floor yeah exactly like to me he's already shown that he's that guy when

he raises his competitive level and he's actually on the court so like to me Zion isn't like questionable dude material um to me who's like I'm like is he a dude is Franz Wagner like oh dude territory for France but doesn't he have to be though I have that's an honorable mention for the guy

I'm for the guy already a guy come on I don't know if he's a guy they paid the hell out yeah he's not a guy at this point like what I think he's a guy I think maybe to your point kind of on the borderline into guydom we need

we need something in between guy and player that's for next time like a maybe guy I just think if you give him if you give him his absolute max in years and money sure and you're already obviously we know palos the other guy like by default that's what he is if you take this core of this team

seriously which I think Orlando is signal like we got our core right they pay everyone though like yeah they like some of that's the model they've resigned a lot of their guys recently you've had the the go go patat says the vloggers like they they want to keep these guys in house and a lot of

my team like team options on the back end of it you would think because when it's time to make trades those guys will be important to but France is the kind of prospect you invest in and among the guy among the players of this

caliber he gets a lot of run in the pick and roll he has a lot of chances to create I think the bump for him and Paulo both is going to be can the magic offense hit a higher level with though with them in the lead because they have the opportunity but Paulo is trying to prove he's a dude and I

think Franz is trying to really cement himself as a guy because France has the ball a lot yeah but they're offense is very France centric and I think you know a lot of that is because of the roster construction they don't really have guards who can soak up these you know initiation duties right

on their guards are guys like Jalen Suggs who's like look you're a point guard in name only like realistically you run around and you know basically try to get scraps on offense and you guard the hell out of other teams lead ball handler then so you know you got the money you're going to get the

opportunities you got to show approval yeah France over seven from three in preseason the shooting has to come around you know it has to come around yeah if you're going to hit that level it has to come around another guy to dude candidate Tyrese Maxi oh sure I just think the number of players who

have who shoot like he does and have the burst that he has incredibly short list and if you have those two things you're how scalable your offenses is just like off the charts like you can always do more if you can do those two things and you fit that around a dude like Joelle and Bede who

defenses are like glued into right and rightly so it's crazy I compared him to an electric car one of the blurbs that we did what's what's the what's the pitch I'll go no torque he's like he can he can be can round a corner though yeah well still can elect your car yes you ever turn on one of those bad guys I'm a lot more focused on just gas guys okay diesel but I think he's notable in the way that he already is one of the best pick and roll players in the league he

literally just won most improved player and I think he still could make another huge leap this season so you're saying guy who could be a dude yes okay I'm for that he's firmly in my dude category yeah he's already a dude yeah who

facts I had Zion who by the way has he played 21 minutes in preseason and he took 21 shots so that's my like I'm looking at him more as like MVP yeah yeah like we'll see about the center stuff but I think if he plays enough games like and he will put up a lot of points in small ball so that's why I

have no I mean I had one B2 but like I guess he's already a dude he might already be a dude yeah so those are my dudes for guys I had Jalen Williams as she had in sharp hmm wow he's already a player is he yeah for sure I think

he's closer to a thing than a player you don't think a thing no I think I think Shaden Sharp at this point in his careers he's a rotation player he is a femoral yeah he has an idea of a concept of a basis of a plan he like love it dates you know I think he certainly does in sharp played on a real

team where he was asked to define his game I think he could find it but on Portland they're asking to be like you know franchise player guy yeah and so I ain't seen that but like in terms of his he a player like I think it's obvious he has like tools to wear like a feature so tools he like if he was asked to work around like great players already I think he'd be well positioned to do that it's just that's not what's being asked to him and so that's where I think

the confusion comes in but like yeah I'm not in guide mode I think what makes me nervous about him is he has the the air of a player who might get lots of minutes eventually and put up a lot of points but would end up with like two rebounds a game and not be a playmaker and being like maybe okay defender in the grand scheme of things and that player type does not appeal to me very much he's also currently out with the same injury he had as a rookie which is a

laborer so he's currently not available so this is a bit of a stretch but I do think things are working so that he would be the guy to pop there in Portland but we'll see I mean this could ultimately just default to Ampereen Simon's being the only guy there maybe like where's scoop neither him or sharp really pop but I think sharp is ready I think there's more playmaking there I think they can run him off screens a little bit and also like he's so athletic and tools

he defensively like there's sometimes he just kind of falls backward into place he could hang so high in the air like that I just constantly think about him with the block in the corner on a three where it just seemed like he was literally put his Mario K-Pon and did that and so I think there's guy potential there I have a candidate who is of a piece with shade and sharp and that's Brandon Miller I think brain miller's a player already already really good season I think he could be a guy

yes and I think it's in part he's kind of already an NBA player defensively like he's really guarding the hell out of people he's really trying hard yeah there's some way to pick up as a young player in the league but if you already have that foundation and now you're playing with a real point guard for the first time in your career I'll do respect of a silly mechich I just think that the lead is going to be lifted off his efficiency and I don't want to overreact the preseason shooting

numbers but he shouldn't the hell out of the ball from just nailing everything that translated so quickly and easily I think he had among the most three pointers made as rookie he was like top five of all time yeah so yes the shooting is there he just needs to get a little bit better in isolation and I wonder having mellow there to bail him out well but true to someone who is go to his Paul George you can see the kind of Paul George arc of coming in and having

to kind of get your legs as more of an off ball force to begin with and then slowly rounding into being more of an on ball element and I think he has that in him yeah just elite feel in terms of especially somebody his age to have that great a feel have all these physical gifts and already be shooting it you know last year's a rookie I think he proved like all right this isn't some bust or whatever like he's clearly a player and yeah I had him I'm

transitioning in the guy mode in my other two guys are guys that I've mentioned before because I'm just in love with their games and that's Derek lively and Jalen Johnson I think lively again young guys showed he's a player already starting in NBA finals games and like holding his own even though at times he got exposed but I think he's going to be ascending into you know God mode and Jalen Johnson I just think the world of and I wonder you know how many opportunities he's

going to get to explore the outer reaches of his game we mentioned what Moby's being allowed to do on the Ackinson I wonder if Quinn Snyder is going to try to incorporate more like I Jalen Johnson you also to get to touch the ball and meet the hey ball Johnson like you think they need to be introduced yeah and so set up on a date yeah Craig young like get off of it every now and again that's what I think is important and like I think just you know these are the

kind of guys that get people fired but it also the other guys that make your career right like Jalen Johnson or Derek lively like or Brandon Brandon Miller's like sometimes GM's way around all their whole careers waiting for these guys to pan out and they don't but like there's a reason why people so tantalized by those dudes completely what is the Jalen Johnson's CV at right now like it is through the roof your stock I mean are you arguing it no I'm saying

like you must be proud of I feel great about it put a couple bucks in there and all of a sudden you're in goddamn millionaire I've been out here trying to tell y'all about Jalen Johnson I will give Rob credit the first mentioned probably on any podcast about Jalen Johnson very proud first week last year picked him up in fantasy has a result at a great year you're welcome yeah that's right anymore guys you guys have see I think I I looked at this a little differently I had

to have him only two but he's already a guy it seems like yeah I think he's we's well above that no that he's not he's not he's not a dude so I think he's probably a guy I think he's a guy now he's on the Ackinson diet should we do that how are you how long you've been waiting to bust that was was saying that I also have key Murray I think he's one who isn't a guy who could be a guy we talked about before I think they need him to play defense they need him to shoot seven a

threes again yeah classic young player situation where he's shown all of the discrete elements at various times and never all of them at the same time yeah but if he can defend the way he did last year shoot the way he did the year prior continue to explore not just his open floor game but in the half court some of the game is a good player to that's a really good player players now but trace Jackson Davis hmm I get started four of the Warriors six preseason games

including the last three I think Golden State is increasingly just based on my view of watching them and the quotes coming out of there coming to terms with the fact that playing dream on green full-time at centers not a good idea for their immediate term like that's a bad idea for trying to win this season so playing Davis is a good idea at the five for the long term I think you want trace and pods on the floor as much as you can possibly get them and so why would you not

be investing in a player like this at this point in time and he's almost the anti-crumingga in a way because he is the way the flow he plays with is such a Steve Kerr style totally and they need bigs they need size they need that flow I see a trace Jackson Davis season the only problem and I like trace Jackson I think you're right he fits what they want to do is a thumper even though he's a little undersized it's just if he's playing center dream on's playing the

four and then coming as playing the three welcome to the Golden State's roster my friend and then melon who's a good three point shooter low volume though like Steph might have to take 53s a game just for this team to be what's old is new yeah my player was John think amiga is he a player I think he's a player I think he's a player yeah I think he's he's in the maybe guy territory now maybe guy oh yeah they need him to be a guy yeah but I think he's more he thinks

he's a guy he thinks he thinks he's a dude I think they need to be a player first and foremost he plays that level no because he hasn't defined himself yet Rob like you you're not a ball handler ish okay yes like you can he has it he has

it he has his like his nice go to stuff where he likes to get like 5th 14 feet from the cup create some space you know rise and fired like that's a cool little thing that he does but that's not what a game is based off of for anybody who's calling themselves a dude or like yeah it's not based on oh

I create contested 14 footage for myself all the time like that's not a thing still hasn't shown he could shoot it obviously we know he's not a on ball pick and roll type of dude so basically he's not a wing I think he's a I think he is

a decent enough creator from like second-side opportunities if you want to give him the ball and say runner offense you're gonna go straight into the ditch but if the ball moves and finds him I think he creates advantages pretty well and milks the advantages he has pretty well fine but wouldn't he

become such a more valuable commodity if he just was killing people on defense crashing the boards transitions garbage pale guy sorry like highly you know are you reading Steve Kerr's text so that's what I'm saying like he's in between types right now and like in between type is not a real rotation

God for it before it seems like it's actually trying to win sure right like if he's not going to embrace the qualities that would make him a consistent contributor to this team which is like no I just need the space you know to f up all the time say we're not there with you coming like we

we can't have those minutes go to a guy who's exploring the outer reaches of what he can do so that's why I'm like is he even that right now I think they will still give him the opportunity to explore those outer reaches just because there's so few warriors who can do anything resembling

that yeah there's a lot of guys who can play their roles in very tight space your buddy heals for example your Kyle Anderson's like those players have a use but I think when you need wild cards and you need juice someone like Kumanga can be helpful but I take your point like if he

were a more clarified player the warriors would be a more clarified team they would have a much better idea of what they're trying to do and it seems like they're still reaching for that as much as anybody I have Julian Strother

down here as a potential player really good preseason you think he's already hit things status oh he's definitely a thing I mean you guys talk about him like he's fucking well we talk about every candidate I'm talking about lots of guys he can I think he's he could be a rotation

player for the nuggets at a much needed spot and thus I think he's on the the already a thing could be a player yeah yeah people over there were excited about what he might could do last year he just never got the minutes Mike Malone was just like screw that I'm not playing this kid obviously

with the departure of even more veterans this all season he's just going to be thrust into more minutes and so you know hopefully he does become a player for them they they absolutely need one of these guys to hit in that way I think the weirdness of some of the Russell Westbrook

experience to will make it an easy hook on some nights to be like we just need more shooting like we just need something a little different in the mix tonight and Strother as much as anybody could be a beneficiary of that any other players I think came wit more could be a player I just don't know if he's getting the opportunity to prove it like we've talked many times Houston is so clutter they have so many viable prospects but if he was on a team or if

the rockets are this kind of team that could give him even more consistent run I think he could be a player pretty telling that he's the first rocket when I think the entire roster we're trying to figure out what we named him as a player but we're not talking about greeners and good news that a lot of guys who could be something yes things now things was the hardest one because we already kind of did this yeah we named a lot of guys I want to circle

back on a guy did name who hasn't really been on the radar and I think could be a thing and that's Taylor Hendrix of the Utah Jazz. Justin and I have talked about him at length. I just think Utah is in desperate need of some of their guys sorry some of their some of their people on their roster to become things yeah I'm so confused yeah I'm you know the terminology is a little bit here but I think he's going to get real minutes it seems starting at

the four they need someone who has the kind of quick twitch defensive instincts and ability that he does and ultimately I think your read on Taylor Hendrix comes down to do you think he can actually shoot and I do and because that I think he can be a thing saw him in a preseason game the other day and I was startled by how big he is but how proportional he is he looks like a wing on the board yeah but if you see him up close he's a big and I always love those guys you

sound like a baseball scout right now like one of Billy Beans the old school guys got a hot girlfriend I have no clowny down here a guy that I target a thing I targeted last year at the end of last year now he's actually playing games I think I'll get a good run as being that sort of like switchable

toolsy defensive guy we'll see what he could be an offense but I think the defense is gonna hit here I also have and this is a born line candidate again Jordan Hawkins who's been playing pretty well for the pelicans can he get some

minutes because he can hit every shot takes pretty much I feel like he could be if there is some kind of brand and in from trade in the offing at some point he feels like a guy who could step in on the back into the rotation if a couple of guys and I'm getting moved in a deal like that and find

minutes or maybe he's attached in some way to make that a three team trade to get out as we eat and use to make everything make sense but wherever he goes I want to see him get a chance to cook because the limited doses we got of Jordan Hawkins have been really promising. My thing is Luca Garza.

Hell yeah yeah my boy shot my boy John Krasinski who just did a feature on Luca Garza and you know what I thought was was great about it just again it exposes you to the different NBA lives that there are this guy, you know, drafted on the fringes, dominant college player. There were no rotation minutes for him. Whenever they bumped them back to the Glee, he smoked everybody. And she's just like, this dude is averaging 32 points in the Glee.

He doesn't belong here, but couldn't scratch the, you know, couldn't scratch the timber wolves crowded front court rotational minutes. But a night or two ago, he stepped in and started against, um, Yo-Kitch and drop 30. Yep. Right. And what I like about him is one, obviously, he's a high motor guy, but he's a skilled big. He's got the floor game for him. Yes. And he's not going to be asked to physically overwhelm and beat people. They have those kinds of players on the roster already.

He's going to come in and just fill in blanks when he's actually asked to do that. I think he's capable of doing this. He's an older dude, which I tend to like too, just in the sense that like, yo, they're going to go out asking to execute something and it won't be above his, you know, his mental faculties in terms of understanding what's going on out there. And so, yeah, I think he might be a thing this year. Are you an older guy? Is there? I'm a step right by that one.

I don't want to get trapped into a age difference discourse. That seems like a really bad place to be. Yeah. I'm just, I'm shocked that you brought Luca Garza to the table. Rob's never been more proud of you. I've never been more proud. And I think in the name of guys who could become things or prospects who could become things, I do think there's more of an opportunity there for him now. We were talking about the walls.

Like there's some gaps in terms of their front court rotation and they're going to have to shuffle some things around to make all the pieces fit. Why wouldn't he get a chance at some point this season? All right. Last one on the list. We have parody. I've never heard of Pig Destroyer. You've been really odd. This riff just kind of reminds me of Pig Destroyer. Pig Destroyer? Shout out to all the group chat fans who are Pig Destroyer fans.

I think that's a small van diagram, but I bet there's somebody in there. I never asked you, did you ever have a metal face? No, I have not. But my brother is a genuine metal head. He comes by it honestly. He's in deep. Why? You? No, I can't say that I have never heard of metal face. Not even like a rap rock? No, I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't enjoy Lin Biscuit to be honest. You know, it's cringes that sounds. I enjoy these guys when they had their run.

I look, I'm not even ashamed to say that I've enjoyed Kid Rock before. I think you should be ashamed. Especially these days. Yeah. No, heavy metal, heavy metal death stuff. No, I've never really been in today. Damn, maybe this is your entry point. Yeah, maybe dying feet. Or get a pick. I think they could be for you. Appreciate you guys. Let me go back. Yeah. Yeah. Who do you guys have for finals, Bix? I went chalky. But I think this is an error of the NBA. We're repeating.

It's going to be genuinely hard if not kind of impossible. I agree. I just think the Celtics will still get to the finals. And I think when they get there, they're going to lose to the Thunder. I went Mavs versus Celtics in the finals. This kind of reminds me of the 2016 season where the defending champs are going to roll through everybody. Again, they're going to get to the finals and they're going to have a rematch.

And I think the Mavs will be just a year smarter and hungrier about taking this team down. And I think even Luca with the LeBron parallels, which funny for me, I was thinking about this. Lucas now my third next LeBron. First I had Yannis. Yeah. I had Yokecch. And now my next LeBron is Luca, honestly. I just really do think that like the way they got so panced in that finals, like they just looked.

Celtics made them look bad, man, like they just dominated them in a way that a lot of it was execution. Lack of focus. Just not taking it as seriously as the Celtics that I think this year will be much different. It's going to be a series that comes down to the wild. I don't think they're going to beat up the Celtics like that's ridiculous. But I can see it going with seven. And yeah, man, the Mavs because they will have the best player in that series.

And it's actually going to matter this time. The best player playing his best because Luca again didn't play his best in the finals last year. I think just a really close NBA finals. The Mavs barely pull it out. Wow. I think the Mavs are better. Like if that series does happen again, the Mavs as they're constructed now are better suited for it.

And some of it is as you mentioned, like young players going through that kind of experience for the first time, not just Derek Lively, but like BJ Washington and Daniel Gaffer and even Luke, he's played in some really high level games, but not quite like that in the NBA. And I think the finals level very different thing. Now you're a little more ready for that. Now whatever Clay gives you or doesn't give you defensively, like that's a threat.

You have to guard on the weak side in a different way than anybody they had in that spot last year. I think things open up for them a little bit against Boston. Like it's still a really tall task to get past even the first line of defense that the Celtics put up. But I think the Mavs are better suited to do it now. Also, there's something too that I think in the modern era is like this. There's something to actually reach an amount on top.

On the Celtic side, where it's just like, ah, we don't want this finals. Our careers aren't being questioned anymore. The very logic of our team's existence isn't being questioned anymore. It's like, ah, it relax. I can put my feet up. Everybody's gotten paid. Everybody's got their ring. Like I'm good. Yeah. Play, pay in Pritchard. I cannot say that fucking name. Play Pay in Pritchard. Yeah. Yeah. I have neither of those teams, unfortunately. Whoa. I have the thunder over the Nakerbockers.

Wow. And I have to say, I'm sticking with this pick because it's going to be in print if not already on the ringer website, but soon this week, my confidence has been shaken very much of late by what? The fact that Pritchard said Chua is out, the fact that they couldn't even keep Landry Shamit healthy. And they had to get rid of him because of the money that they, he would have been owed and they just can't pay that because they're right up against the second apron.

Also because of me, kill bridges as we've referred to a few times, over 10 from three in a preseason game the other day, the shot looks janky is all hell. I say this is someone who myself have a bit of a trebuchet jumper. I feel very qualified to comment on this. It's not great. Okay. In terms of your release time, in terms of the consistency of that shot, the kill bridge has been a really good shooter for a long time.

Yeah. I know that there are, there are always guys who, if they just don't attend to it, you can develop these little quirks in terms of your motion. This feels and looks like something that was more deliberate than that, not just like a hitch that developed, but a hitch that was purposeful trying to fix something. And I, it didn't fix it. Whatever it was. Yeah. Those class saw those clips running around Twitter.

The only thing I'll say about, did you see the clip of Anthony Edwards commenting on the kill bridge shooting free throws and be like, that guy changed the shot. Yeah. Yeah. I did not see that. That's not great. I'm just saving graces that he's not going to be asked to create three point shots, which I think a couple of those are like off the dribbles. But he has to hit them. He does have to hit them at some consistency.

I just think as long as he can make a decent amount of stand still threes, not when he takes the dribble to the side and pulls back up or God forbid is like running a picking roll and it's like, yeah, I'm just going to pull up off the drip. No, I don't think he should be doing any of that. If he makes a decent amount of stand still threes completely left in the corner three or completely left by yourself time to shoot time to gather threes, it'll be fine. But anything more than that?

No. This is when it helps to have the support of your bros though. It's true, right? It might be daddy A time sooner than we think. Is it? Let me tell you, daddy A don't like that. I just want to leave. Oh, my God. Good for it. But I want to know what is your case for the nicks over the salt. Yeah. I'm throwing over the Celtics. It's the same one I have been making. It's just like, I don't know if porzing is going to be healthy. And if anything, I think the odds are that he's not going to be.

And if the door is open, I think the nicks are set up in order to win a series. But if they themselves can't get to that point, like then it gets nicer than I think the solvents are the much more likely.

And I think that's a bummer about all of these playoff prognostications is like the injury factor has just been so prominent or just felt that way more recently where like, you know, even like somebody like the calves at the end of the playoffs last year, like they had nobody playing, you know, that's not to mention the nicks. Same thing, right? And so I don't know. I think if all thing, if everybody's healthy, I do believe the nicks present the biggest problem for the Celtics.

I just think the Celtics are just, you know, because they're deeper, they can withstand more problems to their roster than everybody else. So I got to give them the edge there. And one way to look at it is depth. And you're right. If you miss a guy from your rotation, obviously, if you have a good reserve who can plug in, that's helpful. If you have that top line versatility, I think that's really important.

Because if you're losing key players, you just need guys who can all of a sudden shift their roles dramatically and everything still works somehow. So I think the Celtics are going to be. So like the Celtics, right? Like, you think you're thinking about daddy? Let's just say no one else is trying to do holiday or Derek White or one of those guys goes down. I feel like they're still going to be pretty well positions to do what they do. If bridges or OG gold, like it's, it's over.

Like it's not happening, right? And we're talking about the fourth, fifth best players on the South. Make a lose them and still cook people. Where's the next man? If they lose their four for fifth best guy, it's completely different. Celtics are and should be the odds on favorites.

I just think I'm hoping that this is a little bit of an early season scare where it's like, oh, this is bad right now as we're making these picks, but as the season goes along, if that starting five is as bulletproof as we think on offense, like I think they could be pretty damn good. And so thunder, I mean, we've talked about a bunch. Yeah. Going to be very much in the mix Western conference finals at the very least, I think, is the reasonable expectation. Yeah. I think so.

Okay. Why don't we wrap it there? Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz sitting and staring at us this entire podcast on the couch. In front of us, thank you to Victoria Valencia. And if you are around on your couch watching NBA basketball on Wednesday, we will be recording live after the first game, first national TV game. So check in with us. We'll send out a link and whatnot. So follow Rob on Twitter for that. Thank you. Until then, we'll talk to you later.

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