This Is How We Talk

The moment at which you are cancelation doesn't matter at all. Hollywood has first sworn and the clergy is then then it'll be safe or who knows that I can show them my special art. Yeah yeah, maybe then Christopher Ruffo will have won everything in the cultural wars will have been yeah. Right, But even that, even that would be too far right. So this is this is not going out. So in case anybody hears this, it's it's it's

not awful or naughty stuff. It's just today it would be very socially unacceptable. It's it's American images from a specific time and place, very much so collected for reasons we can go into later. Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask what you can do for your country. Mister grbachaw tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Bon guest with Rob Long and Stephen Aywards sitting for Peter Robinson again. I'm James Lilas. Today we talked to

Ann Coulter, so let's have ourselves a podcast. I'm not supposed to be here tonight, not supposed to be here, and I'll tell you I stand before you in this arena only by the grace of Almighty God. A new ap Pole show. Sixty five percent of Democrats believe Biden should withdraw from the race, plus fifty eight percent of Democrats think Kamala Harris would make a good president. Welcome everybody, It's the Ricochet Podcast number seven hundred. I just

figured that out in Roman numerals. In quested that we got to this point, and how do we get to this point? Why with the usual fine, sparkling conversation that you find at ricochet dot com every single day, brought to you here in podcast form. I'm James L. Alex in Minneapolis, Rob Long in New York, I presume, and Stephen Hayward sitting in for people. Wow, let's oh, yeah, we don't know what happened to be here. Peter, he's completely he's gone. He's not a runner,

he's gone on a walk. He may be walking across Australia at this point towards the Ires Rock or is it Airs Rockrock? Okay, you wouldn't know, Stephen, being the world traveler that you are. Where do you happen to be today? Not that anybody cares, but yeah, I have been to the top of Airs Rock. By the way, what it's worth it some years ago. I am currently where I usually am, which is the foggy, cool central coast of California. There we go. We got the

country of Paradise. We have the country cut well. To bring everybody up to speed in the news. On the Democratic side, Joe Biden has stepped down. Joe Biden is staying in Kamala. Harris is going to be the presidential nominee. It's going to be an open convention. On the Republican side, Donald Trump spoke too long. I know which side, frankly, I would like to be on if I was concerned about the party's health and how

things are going. But it's almost difficult at this point to say one thing or the other, because by the time this thing hits the hits the podcast waves, things may have changed. Convention, though I'm sure all of you were riveted, I stopped actually paying attention to them when I stopped going to them. As a matter of fact, when I was going to them, I wasn't paying particular attention because it's just an awful lot of theater and it

gets tiresome. Last night, it's always fun. The balloon drop, the hoopla, great fun. Everybody energized pours out goes to the bar, et cetera. But have you picked up anything so far vibe wise from your long distance observations of the conventions. I didn't. I haven't pick up anything vibe wise. I mean, I think it was a it was it was a bad speech. It started great and then it just went all over the place. And I I just it's proof once again that Trump will tease us with

his discipline and then falls totally apart. But the convention itself was kind of mean. It was a good convention in general, and I'm also it's kind of I mean, I was just remembering that we didn't have conventions, really, we didn't have conventional conventions four years ago, and it was it felt like an old friend, you know. I mean, these conventions are always kind of fun. I mean for me anyway, I just kind of like

him. I just like the idea of that, the goofiness of it, and I think this one was kind of on message and had I mean, I mean, I full disclosure that there are things that the Republican parties moving in a direction that's that it's not including me in that they're becoming a lot less economically conservative than I am so. But but to to to present a coherent worldview, uh, and a coherent economic view to the people is how you judge these things. And I think they did. They did a really

good job on that, I really do. I think that you have to give them credit for it. The hardest thing in the world is to be clear, right and to tell people in simple terms, what you what you stand for, what you're going to do, And and everybody did that except Trump. But but he even he did it for the first you know, the first two hours of his speech. The last three hours he meandered. So I mean, in general, I mean, it's it's it's a I mean, I listen, if you woke up this morning and you were in

the r NC, you'd be pretty pretty please yourself. Yeah. Yeah. I have lots of observations. Two quick ones. One is everyone knows the story of the Gettysburg address. Lincoln speaks for two hundred and seventy two words, and Edward Everett spoke for two hours, and Trump decided to be Edward Everett. When the rest of the convention was a little closer to the Gettysburg ad press right, it was sort of moving and emotional and very effective.

The other thing is I'd love to see what the ratings are for this convention. I don't know if we still do ratings of the conventional or not, Rob you would know. But well, the reason I say that is I think there was a lot of a lot more interest in what was going to happen at this convention because of the events of Saturday last Yeah, and in

one parallel between twenty sixteen and now. And also another assassination attempt is you know, I was in Washington as a young kid out of college in March thirty, nineteen eighty one, and you know, watching all that very closely. And one of the many effects of Reagan surviving so bravely that assassination attempt is that the wavering Republicans who were unenthusiastic about his plan fell in line behind him instantly. Yeah, and he unified the party. People Now forget that,

you know, Bob Dole, Pete Damenijie. A lot of the old modern liberal Republicans did not really like Reaganomics, but and there was a lot of doubt that he could carry his own party all the way to the end,

and that un the fight. Everybody behind Reagan. Likewise, today, the people who have doubts about Trump have been unified behind him, and so you had a convention that was much more unified and together an enthusiastic than the one in twenty sixteen, when large parts of the party only grudually accepted his nomination. Right, yeah, yeah. And also I think, I mean, the Republican Party is kind of used to him. I think the audience

in general's used to him. So the other issue here is that it didn't seem like amateur hour the way it has in Trump world since twenty sixteen. It didn't seem like, oh my god, the Dalisters are a charge, this thing's a mess. It felt like somebody had really thought about, Okay, what's the message going to make the American people with that all had a lot of it had to be rethought after Saturday, and I think a good job there. I you know, I'm just I'm going to be the skunk

at the garden party. Unfortunately for me, it seems a little a little too frankly, too left me for me. I mean, the the economic message to me is liberal. It's big government, and I'm not crazy about that. But I think the mood of the people. It might reflect the mood of the people. I'm perfectly willing to be out of step with the American people. I often amd and I think I might be here. Well, there's one significant exception to that, Robin the speech last night, and

it might have been the part you slept through or rolling your eyes. But remember Trump made a big point of saying, we're going to do tax cuts and because we need to have faster growth, that's the only way we can reduce our deficit and reduce the national debt. That is old school Reaganomics, supply side economics, that parts all the sort of map cons say Reaganomics and the Reagan era is dead. Well, that was a significant exception to that.

Yeah, I guess I hear you there. I found that not full throated enough for me because because it didn't come it doesn't it doesn't come with it. And actually, look, I mean, the man who gave that speech is uh is at least cheap. He shares responsibility with the president president of wrecking the country's finances, I mean just single handedly wrecking them. And then but it wasn't from tax cuts. It wasn't from tax cuts. Well,

no, it never is. It was from spending. But the left is always going to say that what wrecks the American economy is tax cuts because it means that the billionaires have lots of money which they go into their golden rooms and burn and that right, But he's there there against billionaires too. That that the populist message from the Republican Party is and we're going to protect rich people, and we think that you are the wealth that you've created,

and the value you've created over time is yours. It's we're going to get the fat cats too. That's the message of populism. So it's not exactly that. I mean, I'm clinging to Steve's little golden crumbs of Reaganism because I'm that I have to, but I would I would like a more full throat of Reganism, and you can't. There is no way I agree with tax cuts as a stimulus. I think that's true. And in general, I think starving the beast is a good idea, although the beast never seems

to be starved. And if you're if you are chief, one of your chief platforms is I'm never going to touch in titlements. We now have two presidential candidates, both of whom are living in cloud cuckoo Land. There is only one way, especially we're talking about rebuilding the the the defense. Like I'm in favor of strong defense too, I would like the I would like a presidential candidate, either one to tell me why we need one, especially

if one party is resolutely turning to an isolationist position. Why do we need this big army if we are going to the isolationist who are we fighting? Well, you have two points there. One when it comes to the facts. I don't ever see the Republican Party going after billionaires for the sake of billionaires. We hate these guys because they have an awful lot of money,

and that's unfair, is a Bernie Sanders line. If they hate the fat cats and the elites, it's because of something else other than their money. It's their influence, it's their control supposed to control. It's it's it's that, I mean, it's it. They're not mad at billionaires because billionaires have not all the money. They're mad at them because they say that we all have to put on masks and they buy up the farmland and you know, and tell us we have to live in fifteen minute cities. That that that

stuff. So I mean think I think that's different. And when it comes to the military thing, well, you know, you can say best defense is a strong offense. And if we just sit here behind our shores and continue, I mean, part of one of the reasons we need a big military is to keep the sea lanes open. That's not an isolationist thing. Being able to serve power anywhere, to ensure the free flow of oil and goods is not isolationism. I mean, it's just Oh no, that's a

very good point. I would like to hear that argument. That's a good argument. I'd like to hear it. Well, Rob, I think we're coming to the you know, you and I I'm older than you, but you know we've spent our entire life wanting to hear specific things being said by our leader. No. No, But here's what I mean is if you're if you're arguing for a strong defense, and you have a kind of a robust uh position about projecting American power and America's role as a global hedgemon,

and you think America should stay the strongest country in the world. I mean, which, by the way, position I kind of agree with. But it's an old school. It's an old school position. It is not the position of the Republican Party. It is not the position of the vice presidential nominee for the Republican Party. It is just simply not. They do not want us in they that's they're the ones who invented the term forever wars. They don't want us. They don't they didn't want I mean, I agree

with him about Iraq. We should have been interacted. It was a gigantic failure. But the idea that we're gonna we're on the one side of our mouth, We're going to talk about how we need to like, we need to pair back o our commitments to the world, and we can't be given the Ukraine money and we can't be doing all us that's all that. Those all could coherent world points, but they don't. They they directly contradictorily.

They don't complement the idea of a large, robust military. I mean, if the Chinese invade Taiwan, why is it in our interests to defend Taiwan? I mean, all the people saying we shouldn't be in Ukraine, I agree, But what's the what's so great about Taiwan? Yips semiconductors. Okay, yeah, but the chips we got to be you have to build them

here, building them here. And I agree, we're in the middle of an offshore you know, we're drawing back from China in many ways, we're rea shoring, as they say we're you know, there have been moves in that direction, but we're not there yet. And I mean, I get what you're saying, Rob, but I want to go. You just said that you agree with the people who don't believe that we should be sending money to sending money in material or to Ukraine, or you're saying you understand that

position. I understand that. I understand the isolation's argument. It's a good it's a good argument. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. It's an ancient it's an old American argument. It's sewn into the American flag. It's practically it's in our DNA, and I totally get it. And we have for the past century done the opposite. He raised a lot

of questions that unfortunately require extensive discussion, which we have time for. Well, I'm just mentioned a couple of observations, though one is neither Trump nor Vance mentioned the word Ukraine. What Trump did say last night and his speech was if we don't if our hostages are not out of Gaza. I remember there's what eight or ten or twelve Americans there. If our hostages are not out by the time might take office, they're essentially it's gonna be hell to

pay for gods. That's what he said there. He made a very specific point. The larger one is, uh, yeah, we want to. I think the old school would be. So the point about Ukraine is they're preserving you might say, strategic flexibility. Uh. Trump has been very silent about Ukraine. There's disciple and there's there's there's defects and pluses to that. Uh. The point about having a large, powerful military is is no one's going to mess with you. That's old school, right, and I think

that's true. You know, part of Ronald Reagan's strategy was We're going to bankrupt the Soviet Union by out building them. It cost a lot, but it worked. But the problem with China is I'm not sure we can outbuild them. They're outbuilding us, and so this is a serious problem to figure

out. Uh, yes, I agree, I think that's true. I guess what I would just say on on the the what America's position is is that we're playing where the Republicans seem to be playing a lot with fire, and they're making a lot of arguments for things that are not traditionally conservative, or at least not by any definition conservative, like tariffs. And once you make that argument, it's hard to It's just it's just it's hard to back

out of it, because they're they're popular. People like tariffs, even though they're dumb and they're inflationary and they hurt the economy, and these are I just I am, I'm I'm slowly coming to the belated understanding that that the Republicans are no longer the grown ups in the room, hampered and saddled by their good sense. A party that features Kid Rock and Hulk are not a serious party. Oh I like that part. I'm like, I'm in favor

of that. I just mean it used to be that, you know, we had to make not we I'm not a republic Republicans had to make these tough, unpopular, difficult to make arguments about taxes and why though taxes are better? And regulation and what and and federalism and all sorts of stuff and and why tariffs are like sound good, but they're they're dumb, uh, and we just don't do that anymore. And maybe that that's a that's a that's a shift, and that's I guess a shift in the population. That's

fine too. Shift probably in generational politics, that's that's fine too. But I just I yearned for I yron. I just see I yearn. That's all. Just gonna leave it at that. I yearn. I yron too. I do, I absolutely do yearn. But the problem was perhaps in the mind of the voters, and I'm not contradicting anything you said here, that those arguments were made tepidly and came along with a series of things that seemed to be not so much helping the American people as it did the Chamber

of Commerce. That's how it was. The argument that's made is that at the same time that they would talk about lower regulations and lower taxes and the rest of it in an abstract sense that really didn't click with an awful lot of people, they would be talking about immigration and lots of it, so we can get the wages down, so we can get more cheap workers,

et cetera. And eventually I mean what began with Reagan, I think sort of just became a sclerotic series of arguments that were made by people that I never really explained and just seemed designed to prop up one Romney after the other. And mind you, I think Mitt Romney would have been ten times better than Obama. And I think he's a decent man, even though a lot

of the stuff that he says they disagree with. But it just seemed to be an institutional wrote recitation that didn't really address the dynamics that were going on in the country. Now, when you talk about tariffs, yeah, I

hate them to absolutely do. But on the other hand, I think if you said to people, look, we're going to put tariffs on China that are so significant that those three dollars cheap plastic shoes from Timu are going to be four bucks and we're gonna, you know, and we're gonna make sure that American shoes can be made for five and they're going to be better, it's hard to argue with that. Ye, I mean, it's not how

it well. I like the first part of it. If if you want to have a trade where the first part of it makes sense, the second part of it, doesn't the idea that, Okay, we're going to put tariffs on the just cheap ot Chinese shoes and we're going to help Americans make cheap, cheap o shoes. Like, why are we helping people do that? But I understand, I mean, we've just been joined. I understand the one part of it. But I guess I'm just I'm just still a

paleo economic conservative. I still don't like it when the federal government, which in my lifetime has often been controlled entirely by liberal progressives, will be in the White House in an executive branch. Again, I guarantee you. The idea that we're going to see to that administrative branch all sorts of dumb things. To me is I don't know, makes me a little nervous. I'm too old. I remember the Obama administration. So that's my problem. I

agree. I mean, we've been wandering in the wilderness saying these things for an awful long time, and we will continue and we will continue to do so because you know, if nothing else, as a reminder of the basic bedrock ideas that got us through the eighties, and I have not been eliminated or contradicted by time, experience, or changes. I mean, there are some things that abide, there are some things that are true. So yes, let's keep saying them. And the other hand one of those things.

And if the team Moushugars go up to four bucks, I'm not exactly going to be crying. Welcome back to and Culture author, host of the podcast Unsafe with a culture on some one particular Rocoschet networker. Yes, latest books are in Trump We Trust e pluribus awesome and resistance is futile. How the Trump hating left last? It's collective mind And welcome back. Thank you real

enjoyed these four our acceptance speech last night. How about you, guys, Well we clocked the two and a half, but in my ancient Senessen state, I may have dropped out before we get to the RNC, though, your thoughts on the aboard of attempt, the assassination attempt which really to change the complexion of this of this election. Two things. One is I don't think every single speaker at the RNC needed to describe it to us, and

every single one. I'm in a house of people and I got them all groaning when they got to and then the shot whizz passed his ear and he pumped his fist. Yes, and he and accept. It goes on for twenty minutes this description, and he said, fight, fight, This is the most watched video probably certainly in the last fifty years. There is no one in that audience who didn't see it. Please please stop describing it. That's point one point two. Everyone seemed to think, I've I've a bunch

of bets. Unfortunately, the one with James Higgins is only for a nickel, the Culter family biggest bet, but many nickel bets in one stake bet that the nominee would not be Biden, which I concluded immediately after reading the New York Times at editorial in one of my in one of my Ricochet Boba gas, I've described, and I think I'm right about this, that whether Biden stays or goes is basically a fight between two groups within the Democratic Party,

the Blacks and the Jews. And I'm putting my money on the Jews. After Trump got took it in the ear, all my bets started saying, Okay, are you ready to buy me a mistake dinner yet? And I said, hang on, and now we see it looks like, I mean, who knows, it can go back and forth. I'm stronger belief than usual that they're going to make Biden drop out, so I'm going to win my bets. Yay. I think people got a little too enthusiastic in other words about that shooting. I mean just saying, Okay, Trump has

won, it's over. His speech was good, although weird and rambling. Last night, a lot of the convention was incredibly weird. But by and large I can see why a lot of Republicans are thinking, right now, it's over. He's going to win. A lot of people set out out of the shooting. A lot of Democrats, I know, said okay, that's it. I'm voting for Trump. But four months is a long way away. So I'm not making any bets on the general election. And do

we have any bets together? We we we have had we bet together. I don't know whether we're on the same side of a bet as anybody. I can't remember. You know, this is why you got to write these things down. No, by and large, it's usually you and me against the rest of the Hampton's which is which is, but only in this only on these only on every four years because the eight years all Anne does is

like attacked me. Yes, because I'm a true buchananight, And if I could put in a good word for Romney, I think he gets a bad rap as being more of an establishment Republican than he was. The reason I supported him because he looks like it. He looks like mister wall Street, and I think that probably didn't play well with the white working class. He

doesn't talk like Trump. But the reason I supported him and supported him ferociously in twenty twelve, was he had the toughest position on immigration of any Republican in my lifetime. Remember he was mister it'll be self deportation. We simply we don't have to round him up. They round him up to get him here. We don't have to round him up to get him. And we're just going to enforce the immigration law to prevent employers from hiring them. And

they'll go back the same way they came. And you will recall, perhaps you will not Rupert Murdoch, one of the immigrants who absolutely does not care about the welfare of the average American. A few weeks before the nomination, had a sit down meeting with Mitt Romney, this is like the centerpiece of his game. It would be like telling Trump to drop build the wall, and he harangues Romney and says, you got to drop this self deportation, and Romney just laughed and said, no, I can't. So he stood

by one being harangued by rupert mock Murdoch. Whereas you know, Trump capitulates in a second no matter who's talking to him, including Jared Kushner. So I think Romney looks like establishment weenie rhino Republican like my friend Rob Long here. But he really was not okay? Was it weird when they booed Mitch McConnell. I mean, you've been a pretty outspoken Mitch McConnell defender. I

was when he was running and they were primarying him. I wrote about this in I think It's I think it's never trust a liberal over three where I think that's the one where I attacked the Tea Partiers. I mean, I loved the original grass roots Tea Partiers, but then you had all these quote Tea Party candidates and as I counted it, we had lost like five Senate seats because of Tea partiers primary Republicans who may not be my cup of tea. But they have an R after their name. And so I was ferociously

defending Mitch McConnell. I think that was that would have been twenty ten, that was the Big ten, or maybe it was twenty twelve and he had that guy forget his name, but anyway, he had a Tea Party candidate running against him. And I'm saying, you know, Kentucky isn't a red

state. We could lose the seat. No, it didn't happen, but you know, Christine o'donnelld Todd Aiken, Richard Murdoch, my roodeek is no, no, but never primary a Republican, no matter how bad the Republican is, at least until you have a massive overwhelming majority in the House of the Senate. That's angel Yeah. And it's Steve Hayward out in California. And you know, as James mentioned among your books, was in trumply Us from twenty sixteen and then and then you guys had you and Trump had a

really bad breakup. I mean it was Ben affleck j Low bad. But I note that benefits back together. At least that's what the tabloids say. So my question for you is is there anything a second Trump term could do that would revive an old trumpter because would the wall satisfy you or you need to buy there is I think I've been very clear on this point. Yes, I want a wall. Okay, I'll tell you the story. I'll

see a story behind this. Uh. We were twenty twenty. We were at a I think probably at that's the very same house you're in right now. We're at a dinner party. A lot of Republicans there, and they were like, they're trying to bring Ann back into the fold and these are these are establishment Republicans, but they're big Trumpers. And what I'm saying,

and listen, I talk to the White House all the time. You know one of those guys who's like, I mean, I know people and what could I I'd like to tell them, what is it what they could do for you that would bring you back to the fold. And Anne said build a wall. I want a wall. And one of the wives said, oh, Anne, I don't think the wall was that big a deal. It's like, are you crazy? Like so that's that's the backstory to that

to build a wall. But it's true, like if he you know that twenty twenty would have been a very different election had he been able to say I built a wall. By the way, Trump Trump missed a major opportunity last night. I think he could still do it, which is he says, let's want to get rid of all this green energy nonsense in these windmills. You know right now, when those things were out, we bury all those blades. How about sticking them in the ground at the border and using

all those stupid blades and windmills for war construction. Wow, I think I think people love that idea, right, A wall that consists entirely of spinning mincing blades. Yes, we probably you know. And interesting, we've been on this podcast for thirty minutes. You've been with us for however many JD vans hasn't come up. One is that because we're too enthusiastic and bound up in the Trump mystique, or is it because it isn't that important? Tell

us what you think about the guy. Yep, she froze. Yeah, she's frozen up. So we'll have to improvise, ladies and gentlemen for a moment there. You may actually have thought that Ann Culture did not immediately respond to the question with a you know, with a delightful series of charming observations

and outrageous assertions. But no, she froze. We lost her, so we're gonna have to get her back here in a second and in the meantime, since it's just us, what do you think, guys, I am intrigued by the fact that it's been a long time since we've had a heep with a beard. Oh right, one hundred years, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, well by the way that beard grew, he was clean shaven at the beginning of Trump's acceptance speech last night the night. Yeah,

yeah, at the end of the game the Civil War general. Right, he's a very interesting character. Oh, we got back. We've got a little land back. We're hearing her back from the other side of the multiverse. Yeah, and she's winking in and out like Kirk in the Thulian Web. Anyway, anyway, so go on, rob uh. You know, I'm uh, Jade Vance has got to be one of the most interesting

people. Interesting in a personal journey, interesting intellectual journey. I mean, I'm again, I'm I don't want to be the jerk here, but I am always the jerk here. I am disquieted by the fact that he was such a full throated Trump critic and then now a full throated Trump uh uh running mate. It's so they were so extreme that it feels to be like, this is an unformed person. It's at Rob accolytes the word you're looking for us act like yeah, yeah, someone going off to seminary ought to

have that one, right, Yeah, you're right. Well, you know, all due respect to acolytes. I just it just to me, it feels a little I don't, I don't. It just feels unformed. Like this is a young man and he's you know, his own personal life story is interesting and his I mean the in light of his you know, populism, economic populism, his his Ivy League roots and powerful wife. I think these are all sort of these were red flags for for a candidate like Jadie

Vance. I mean to say so that I find him. He's confusing to me because I feel him his inconsistency makes me nervous. Well, two observations. One is he's the youngest vice presidential running mate since Richard Nixon in nineteen fifty two. And I think the fact that Trump picked him and as rob points out, was willing to set aside all those old harsh remarks. It's kind of interesting, but I think he picked him because it's doubling down on

the brand of rejecting the establishment, right. Yeah, Instead, and it wasn't he didn't pick somebody to pick a state appeal to a certain group. He said, No, I'm going to double down on my brand and point the way to the future of the party. Second thing, one of the things I thought was interesting in Vance's speech is twice he said, and I think people picked up on us. He said, you know, I know, you know, there's a lot of disagreement amongst us about what we should

do about various issues, but that's what makes us stronger. We'll just argue these things out. I thought that was a very interesting technology. He said, it makes our movement stronger, which I've always believed by the way his church LEXU level right. I thought that was quite significant part of his speech that a lot of people dis missed. Yeah. I agree. And there's a lot of things with JD Events that I disagree with. I'm a Ukraine

Hawk supporter. He isn't. There's some changes in his opinions on this and then the other. I don't agree with it. But on the other hand, if we'd got if you've gone with a Doug Burgham for example, or somebody who what would Doug Burgham have been? He would have been another Pence, He would have been sort of another hologram decent man was, you know,

integrity and smarts and all that. But it just brings absolutely nothing vance bring that that that cohort of the country that is worried about people mired in intergenerational poverty and drug use. I mean, that's that's just that box tick and and it's it's hard not to see that. It's a way of saying, I see these people, I see this problem, I understand it, and I'm concerned about it. But you know when you say that he was

a strong critic and then he's changed, well two things. One, all of us by this point in our lives should know that politicians are infinitely malleable depending on the circumstances, and we shouldn't trust any of them. Uh. And Two, from what I understand about Trump, it's not what you said yesterday is what you're saying today. If you were just if you if you were a critic a month ago, but today you are in full throwner agreement

that matters more than what you said before. And I don't know if that's a personality defect or if it's just human nature for him, or well, he does like it when you bend the knee. Yeah, the people around him tend to be I guess I will use the term acolytes, but there's not people around him do not tend to stand up to him, and the ones that do don't last. What do we mean by bend the knee though, because I mean, I mean, we've used that, We use it.

We use it a lot during the early, you know, the first Trump presidential campaign and administration, because we wanted to say that a little bit of the Caesar to it. We wanted to say that a little bit of the king and the authoritarian and the rest of it, bend the knee. We had that. But you know, maybe it's not so much as that, as not bending the knee, but just assuaging the the ego of of of of making sure that he knows you're on his side. That's not necessarily

submitting yourself to the to the magisterial authority of Donald Trump. It's just it's it's just saying I'm on. I'm on the side of the people who don't laugh at you as Donnie from Queen's I'm on the side of the people who are not making fun of you as an RV stay short fingered vulgarian who doesn't

really belong in polite society at all. I'm not one of those. And I'm coming around to the idea that's that's what it is, not the authoritarian nature, because the whole season of authoritarian stuff just got very, very tired early on when we saw that that was not how the administration was going to go. Yeah, I'm not sure though that I'm not sure that that that's true. I mean that I understand what you're saying, except that I think

that the people the bending the knee means you have to capitulate. And you know, he has one thing we can say about him is he has terrible, terrible taste in staff, right. I mean, by his own admission, he's fired them all and didn't like them all, and he surrounded himself. He's a very bad hirer right, And so loyalty is the most important thing for him because he's inconsistent. So bending the knee is it is a

pejorative because it did. It does seem like there were times and even I'm sure we'll see in the future where he's surrounded by willing eunuchs, right, I mean, they think what's happened to Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or any of those people who were sort of statesman in twenty fifteen, and then by twenty eighteen we'reus sort of I mean in Harem practically, so I'm not sure.

But again we're talking about then, is right. We're talking about politicians want access to power and the ability to use power, and so the clearest route to that is is going to be going through the guy who's at the top. Yeah, now, oh sorry, No, I know nothing. I'm and I don't mean to get particularly spun up or part of this issue. If I if I sound as if I am, it's because I'm really energetic today, and I'm very energetic. Why are you energetic? James?

What I am? I am? One of the reasons is my potasha metabitalism working. Sorry, I checking that tabs somehow reset my metabolism. So I went to Europe for two weeks. I ate absolutely everything. I came back at longch the time. I am serious and people say it's the walking. People say true, people say it's the fact that the food isn't process and full of seed oils. Whatever it is. I mean, I ate a lot of fish and chips, and I had dessert after every meal, and

I came back and I lost a pound. So the metabolism thing is really important, but it's a mystery sometimes, isn't it. That's where Lumen comes in. And I love this thing. I absolutely love this thing. I wish I had for you an unboxing video where I could show you the Lumin. I wish that I could show you tell you the wonderful, silky feel of the portable pouch it has. I wish I could just impress upon you how this thing feels like an Apple device. It's so cool, and I'm

glad they sent me one. What is it? You ask? Sounds great? I want one? But what is it? Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's advice that measures your metabolism through your breath. It's got an app right. It lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs, and it gives you tailored guidance to improve your nutrition, your workouts, your sleep, and even your stress management. All you have to do is to breathe into your lumin first thing in the morning, and it's this process.

The app tells you how to do it. It's very simple. You watch the app, you breathe, You wait until the ball starts boncing, and then it goes, and then it thinks and it cogitates, and it will tell you what's going on when you do with metabolism, whether you're burning mostly fats or carbs. Then Lumen gives you a personalized nutrition plan for the day based on your measurements. Your metabolism is your body's engine. It's how your body turns the food you eat into the fuel it keeps you going.

And because your metabolism is the center of everything your body does, optimal metabolic health translates into well a bunch of benefits until they easier weight management, improved energy levels, fit, better fitness results, better sleep, and the ability to go to Europe for two weeks, eat absolutely everything in the continent and come back just as you were. Luman gives you recommendations to improve your metabolic health. And that's what I love about it. I started using this thing

and it knows me right off the bat. It knows exactly what's going on. So here's how many carbs you can have for the day, Here's how much of this, and it's it's it's it's it's like a gift. I look at that carb measurement and I say, I'm going to have that, and I'm going to have that in a pancake and I'm going to have that and you know, in a Mars bar. It's great, It's absolutely great.

I cannot endorse this thing enough. I love it. And you know, the feel of the unit just tells you that it's it's a solid piece of tech. I just anyway, if you want to take the next step in improving your health and see whether or not I'm telling you how cool this thing is, go to Lumen dot m E slash ricochet to get fifteen percent off your lumen. This is l U m E n dot m E slash Ricochet or fifteen percent off your purchase. And we thank Luman for sponsoring this

Ricochet podcast. Any chance we have a back yet or if we just did. Think I'm seeing her, but Steve, you got you had a you wanted a you wanted to chime in on this is she had a sloped rough or something. You get up. She get an update for cloud from crowd striker. That's That's one of my jokes is how do you flumox the Secret Service? You slip them a roofie. Now you are you are just you know, stand up king today. I'm having a good time with you guys.

I'm like you, James, I'm kind of I'm kind of amped up. Uh, but I do dissent from Brother Rob. But Brother Rob, you are my favorite rhino and I usually thank you. But on this loyalty question, I have a different perspective. First of all, as an old guy, my knees don't bend very well anymore. So this is a tough subject. But I will concede to you that Trump gives loyalty a bad name. But look there, but loyalty to presidents and administrations is actually very serious

and significant problem and a reasonable demand. I mean, Nixon complained about disloyal appointees. The Reagan administration had a big problem with that. And by the way, I think you want to make a distinction between political loyalty, which is are you loyal to the president's program and ideas or are you personal loyalty

to the person, or are you out to make your own career. You know, it used to be said that Nancy Reagan had a superpower for being able to tell when someone was working in the Reagan White House to help Reagan look good and help achieve his executives, or someone there to build up their own resume and maybe sometimes undermine them. The problem with Trump is, and I'm coming back closer to your position again, is you don't know what his

program is. Necessarily. I think a lot of people who went to work for him, like General Kelly and some of the others, they probably intended to be loyal to him in the ordinary sense. Hr mcma all those there's very bard. They're all very able people who would thrive in any other administration with a president who was less shall we say, mercurial than Trump was. So one question for a second term, if we have one as expected, is Trump going to be steadier and more consistent in what he wants done?

Or if not, it'll be just like the first term with lots of chaos. Even if your point really able and people who intend to be loyal. So it's some more complicated problem, that's all I mean. The second second term would not have Russia Gate. It would not have from the get go this whole concerted narrative. That absolutely clud what I mean, Yeah, that's I mean, that's important. Is it not? No, it's not,

It really isn't. I mean he blew it in the first term. As presidents in their second term have less power, they accomplish less when they talk, I'm talking about they need accomplishments. What they need to do in the second term is compromise and they think about their legacy. And that's when they get nervous because they don't have any leverage because everybody knows it's not running again. And the minute you get you take off. As any second term president,

it's the same thing. The clock is ticking. That's you know kind of what they why they call the second term president lame duck. We don't have the stick you used to have. Well, not going to walk in with that. That's going to be this that's the political reality of his second term. It would be that. It's the reality anybody's second turm. I'm sorry, Steve, go ahead, No, that's another reason for the JD Vance pick, right, is that is pointing beyond it. In other words,

he doesn't want to be a typical second term president. Well, yeah, I mean I think I think that that would be the three dimensional chess argument for it. But I just wish I knew what their what their plan was in a country that is not He is not going to I mean, we're not going to have suddenly a lock on the house in the Senate. Even if he does, it's only for two years. What his plan is to do things differently from the way he did them in the first term,

No, and I don't see that. But when I when I say there won't be Russia Gate, I mean we will have all We will have a political landscape that is actually about the issues. You may disregard, you may disagree with what issues he wants and the way he wants to do them, But it seems as if we have a fighting chance to do that without having this immense, tornadic activity in the press and the media and the culture about

Russiagate. Yeah, but remember, Russia Gate was a problem for him because he made it a problem for him, because he woke up every day and spent three hours in his bedroom putting on his makeup and fixing his hair and tweeting and watching the morning shows and getting furious he chose to do that. I mean, if you look at when Bill Clinton was being impeached, rightfully, so in my mind it was about to be kicked out of office, which I wish he had had been. He actually managed to get things done.

If you cannot compartmentalize as a chief executive, especially in your second term, you're sunk, you're sunk. So the idea that his I mean, I mean, I know I'm a broken record on this, you should probably, I'm sure there's a million the Trump supporters now turning this thing off because

nobody wants to hear it. But no regards he didn't. The stuff he got in his first term attacks a bill, which I agreed with, and then some foreign policy successes which were great, but he passed steel tariffs which were idiotic and hurt the American economy. This is not an argument. You

can't argue this. This is twenty nineteen economic data, and it was because of what he did in steel for steel, our trade gap I mean in terms of importing exporting to Mexico went south when he renegotiated foolishly NAFTA and didn't change much except to include the big trade unions on the bargaining table, and then he went to China. This is what happened. Right then he went to China and rattled his sword, and I was all in favor of it.

But the first thing he gave up was in the intellectual property protections that American businesses need. So it's like, this guy is inconsistent at best, and we haven't gotten to the part where he seated the entire federal government to the swamp during COVID and he attacked the Republican governors who stood up. So I mean, I hope he's going to be better, But like I think we if you have the if you have principles that are conservative, you have

to you can't just give them up. Because you know, he got shot in the ear and looked heroic and is in many ways kind of a cool dude. I think he's a funny guy and I think he's super charismatic, But I don't know, Like this is the world's getting more complicated. This is the funny part is that you have on the left right now people who believe that Donald Trump is going to get into office and institute Project twenty twenty five and put them all in camps. They actually believe that we're here.

On the other side, you have Rob Long saying no, I'm more's just going to get back in and and and put in more steel tariffs. But I literally said he's going to which I agree with you is a bad idea. But what I'm talking about is that we had four years, for three years, of a cultural narrative about this guy that was overblown. It was absolutely, you know, just a volcano of paranoia that I don't think we're

going to have this time because it's burned itself out. And the idea that we're going to replay the four years of hair on fire that we had previously, I don't think that's the case. I think that that has been spent, is what I'm saying. And so in the absence, I mean, one of the reasons possibly we couldn't have good arguments about any of the things you were talking about was because we always were back into a corner about well, he's a tool of Putin, and that was the only thing that anybody

ever really talked about for a very long time. In the absence of that, I think there's an opportunity in the first two years to have a little bit more clarity and a little bit more you know, discussion of the issues. That's my hope. I may be a Pollyanna. I'm sure I am. We've got a few minutes here and where we send out the part and I will settle it, Rob. But it won't go well for you because I have to say I'm really unused to Rob Long, the policy wonk.

But well, I mean, I can do a different balance sheet on various policy season, but I won't. Instead, I want to look at something that normally I would expect from you to observe it. And just one example, when George W. Bush pulled us out of the Kyoto Protocol back in two thousand and two, he just did it with a letter, an executive boarder or whatever. Yeah, when Trump pulled us out of the Paris Climate Accord, he did a big White House ceremony, He had a brass band,

he invited me down. He talked about how we love our coal miners. By the way, coal mining went down more under Trump than it did under Obama. Okay, but the point was is that why is that important? That's important because like I said, I have a more favorable view on the balance sheet of policies than you do. But the broader point is he is he is, he is working a well. First of all, it's

a frontal challenge to the premises and the dialogue of our establishment. You know, no other Republican would have had a brass band to say, I'm going to give the middle finger to the Paris Climate Accord, which is a nothing burger agreement. By the way. He didn't need to do that, by the way. Everybody around him was against it. His Secretary of State was against him doing that, if Jared and Ivanka were against it, and he went and did it. And that's what I like about the guy. And

I think we're getting more of that. Please, And I'll just plant this now and you guys will talk about it later some other episode. But the civil service reform idea, it sounds wonky, and it's actually, I think quite significant, And if he get makes some progress on that, that's going to be very significant. I think I won agree. Okay, I do too. And here's something else that I'd like to see back. I'd like

to see back the push toward traditional architecture and government building. Yes, and I know that a lot of people believe that this is just a precursor to fascism, because you know what did Musolini do well, Actually he went with sort of a stripped down fascist modern thing. But that's irrelevant. The idea that somehow we are going to be repudiating all of the progressive elements of the twentieth century if we go back to a more eye pleasing symmetrical form of architecture

is ridiculous. Of course it would be. It would be they'd have a better job making the argument on the other side if they weren't defending hideous monstras these that that that soil the landscape at nearly almost every American city where they're planted. I just love the idea. Biden, I think got rid of that that the edict on day one, on day one, and I think,

you know, Trump will probably do it back. There's probably some building out there, and given the pace at which these things are constructed and planned, that's been in you know, that's been moving along for six years now, and now the guys who stripped off the columns for the version that they're planning to build are been wondering if we're going to have to put the columns back on that good thing. With computer aid design, it can be,

it can be. Okay, when Trump was Trump did this thing and we had you know, it was symmetrical, it had a portico, it had the columns. And then Biden came in. We made it asymmetrical. We added a whole bunch of reflective glass and brutalless concrete on this side. But not Trump's coming in. I wonder if we can eat anybody got that drawing

beg that we had. You know, one of my my professor of architectural history in college, gave a big, like a like a five day five not five days, like three day lecture on the the horrible turn in public architecture from sort of you know, you know modernism, if you like it, you know, the steel glass thing, it's that's that's kind of everywhere, but to the brutalist kind of concrete stuff that they were doing. Every

federal building looks like that pretty much. And he said, and he used the perfect example of it was the Boston City Hall, right, which is on this Skully Square, which these old squares there's kind of beautiful and it's like we used to be kind of a rabbit's warren of roads and was just this big flat plaza with this concrete beehive on top of it that was asymmetrical

and kind of top heavy. And he said, and I remember, this goes this building, and this plaza is fit only for angry and violent demonstrations. And you look at you like, yeah, like it's a it's a it's a government screaming at the people and providing them flat ground in the you know, with no trees to screen back. And and it was exactly right. I can never look at those buildings again. So yeah, okay, I'm I'm in favorite brass bands when we pull out of stupid climate change nonsense.

I'm in favor of putting a doric columns back. But he's about to say no, no, no, no, I must not be right there, because you're right. He was right about the brutalism building. And as I've said before, it's interesting whenever they make a movie about a dystopian future, all they have to do is go and find a college campus somewhere that was built between sixty five and seventy five, and they have all of the

humorless oppressive nature of an authority and state, authoritarian state right there. It's an awful form of architecture. And I thought it was dead. I thought we were past it. Yeah, it was in Edinburgh last week, a couple of weeks ago. I got to see the new Scottish Parliament. Oh it's that awful I've seen now, absolute excressence of it. It's one of

the worst buildings I've ever seen in my life. And if you look at the design, and you will say, well, you can see that it's intended to be a tree that grows out, and that these are the leafs. Yes, if you are about a thousand feet in the air looking down, if you are standing around it, it is a boldus formless, shapeless thing that is spattered for no apparent reason with these strange shapes that look like sevens or inverted elves or something like that. And I couldn't figure out what

they were. They're all over the place. They're like a strange barnacle that fastened to the building. So we go inside and it's brutalist. It's it's a brutalist bill. It literally is raw concrete. You can see it everywhere, unadorned. It's the sort of thing that you can just I mean, it looks like what the who are relieving their bladders on and the Who's next

cover album. It's awful. You go to this door that takes you up this this meandering staircase, so you go and see your parliamentary people at work. And instead of I mean, I'd just been to Holyroot, I'd just been to you know, other beautiful buildings, and I'd seen that even the humblest of spaces elevated the soul, embigned your sense of glory, that the smallest, most reasonable buildings, commercial or otherwise had an element of uplift to

it. They said that we're going to gather together the spirit of humanity in this doorframe. What you get in the Scottish Parliament is an unadorned, concrete, dank little thing through which you have to pass, and it makes you feel as though you are just nothing but a gnat, that the great stony finger of the state is going to come down to crush. But at least they explain what the things on the outside of the building are. They have a keith. Here's this shape, it means this. Here's this shape,

it means this. And I found a strange seven inverted l whatever the hell this thing was, and it is a abstract representation of a skating minister meant to meant to connote motion, joy forward movement. Well, well, no, no, no, no, I know what painting they're talking about. I had seen it the day before in the museum. I'd literally been staring because I know the painting before I saw it, and I'm looking at it as I'm happy to meet an old friend in person. How are you.

I'm looking at this painting. It's having a wry sense of amusement at its composition, and it's and then I'm thinking, I just saw this thing, and it never occurred to me looking at your building, that these shapes movement to be an example of that. If you failed with me, you failed with absolutely everybody. And if we have, thanks to Donald Trump, a new architectural standard that once again speaks to the deep roots of the culture and

the country in all of the antecedents. You know what, I don't give a rats pitute about steel tabs, But I remember Churchill's famous line about architecture. First we shape our buildings, and then our buildings shape us. And by the way, it's worth reading the whole speech where he lays out why Parliament has to be rebuilt exactly the way it was after the Germans bombed in

the war. And so yeah, if you get brutalist architecture for your a parliament building, I think there probably is a connection with our brutalist politics that have come along at the same time. Wrapping it up there, Steve, good for you. Well, before we go, a couple of things. One I'm going to Rob. You want to tell him about the meet up, So we just should tell him to go to ricochet dot com and see if I go to riche do com. We got a couple of meetups one

last week of July. We have one scheduled in Saint Louis early October. There are plenty slots left. He's joined Ricochet, or come to a meetup, or just join Ricochet and tell people you want to meet up at a certain time and place and people will show up. I would be remiss if I did not give Rob the opportunity to tell some delightful little Hollywood anecdote about Bob NewART, who's passing. We deeply lament since he was an incredibly you

don't want to say influential. I don't want to replay his krusty eulogy, but it was hard to know if he influenced anybody. It was in very subtle ways because his his ability to style was so unique and so wonderful. Yeah yeah, I mean I think unfortunately he didn't influence enough people because he was a really he was a genius and he and he was just a pure economy this guy. Uh never no movement, no no line, no eyebrow move nothing was out of it. All was just the perfect timing. He

sort of invented it in a lot of ways. And he has the people who don't know, I'm like younger people like he did this trademark stammer, he did the button down Mine of Bob Newhart was the biggest selling album and biggest selling comedy album and it remained that way I think until the the eighties or something. I mean, he just was the number one and and it was just him having a one way phone call. Uh and with the variety

of things are one way conversation, and it's unbelievably brilliant. It's sort of Will Rogers Mark Twain kind of level of genius. And he and he had a way of talking that was really his way. Although it had had you know, become more of a signature, and I just will tell he he I don't think he told me the story because we worked, we did a show together. But I think his son told me the story. I know he made he told his story that he's at. You know, he said,

my kids, you know, they don't even listen to this. Only the oldest one served my albums. The youngest is youngest daughter, Courtney. He's this wonderful, wonderful person. Uh she you know, she's she's too young. She didn't really know what he did. And they're at Thanksgiving dinner in his house, his beautiful house and Bellair having Thanksgiving, and he's telling the story to the kids. He's saying, and you know, he's trying

to tell a story about when he was growing up. And his his daughter, youngest daughter, Courtney, says, Dad, can you talk faster? And he said, no, Courtney did this is the way I talk. I talked, and and then he gestured the house into the and that is why we we have these things. It's because this is how I talk.

And just like he nailed it, like and and it was you could you could imitate it, but you couldn't catch whatever that little spark was inside him that made it funny, so you could you could repeat word for word with the same number of pauses everything he said, and for some reason was missing the soul and and uh, he was just the He was the greatest. He was the greatest, and an incredibly nice guy to work with and very

very thoughtful with the writers. But every now and then he would come up to you and say things like, can can we just give somebody else this line? Or or can I just not say anything in the scene. The star of the show rarely makes that request, but he's like, I don't really, I don't know. I feel like you gave me a line for no reason. I could just stand there. This isn't mind stay there.

He was like, yeah, I'll just stand there behind the desk, or stand there at the table, or's all just stand there like that's what I do. I'm fine and like to have a star of that level that magnitude actively lobbying for less was kind of a gift. Was he responsible for the greatest ending of any sitcom series well conceived? I can tell you what I think he remembers it that he had come up with it, and he might

have. However, I worked with a very, very very talented writer who had been a young writer on New Heart before he became a young writer on Cheers and was there when I was there, and years before the end of New Heart, he said that he had pitched this idea once in the room and they all kind of laughed. So somehow the idea was out there. And I won't give it away because some people don't know it. But it's a great ending to it. But but I remember Bob was telling me like

it was a great ending. Everybody loved it. The only problem was it was extremely painful and emotionally damaging to the woman playing his wife in the second series, who felt like because she knew she never she had never measured up to zample set Well. I was just going to say, yeah, the entire thing may just be if you have that much power in Hollywood, the ability to get back in bed wizards. But there we end for the week and Stephen, it's you anything. Yeah, I've just said we're ending,

all right, Stevens still here? You got anything you want to say? No? All right? Been a pleasure. As ever, this was episode number seven hundred. How did we get him? Only because Ricochet is fun and once you go there, if you have not gone there yet, uh just discovering this podcast, I entirely possible, go there and you will find the place you've been looking for all your life. On the Internet. Seriously, not Facebook, not Twitter, not x not Instagram, not The Talks,

no Sane Center, civil conversations and crazy. Sometimes elbows are throwing, pans are hurled at heads, but it's all part of a community that we love. The member feed, that's where it's at. And yeah, you got to cop up a couple of shekels to get there, but it's worth every single one of them. Go to iTunes if you wouldn't like is there still an iTunes no music podcast whatever Apple's calling it? Give us five stars? Would it kill you? Wouldn't kill you? And join us next week

when who knows, maybe Ann will be back. I have this horrible feeling that actually she doesn't know that she was disconnected and that she was answering our She's been answering our question for the last forty seven minutes, so much knowing her would be possible, and it would be hilariously funny anyway to listen to. So if there's a lost recording of Ann's reply in forty seven minutes.

We'll be putting it out as an extra bonus adjunk podcast. Gentlemen. That's it for me, I except to note that Bob Newhart's second album was recorded here partially in Minneapolis. Thank you very much. Mat. That's it. We'll see you later, and we'll see you in the comments, said Ricochet four point zero. Next week, Fellos Ricochet join the conversation