Morning. Can you hear me?
Yeah, you're really loud.
Too hot, too hot. I will adjust.
I will adjust that.
Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask what you can do for your country.
Mister garbachow, tear down this wall.
It's the Ricorship Podcast with Stephen Hayward and John You sitting in for Charlie. I'm James Lylyas. Today we talked to Matt Connnetti about a new edition of his book End what twenty five is all about? So let's Saffrasel's a podcast.
Has your Attorney general told you this was a hoax?
One evidence?
Jerry Jeneral, No, I know it's a hoax.
It's started by Democrats. It's been run by the Democrats for four years.
You had Christopher Ray and these characters and call me before.
Him, and some stupid Republicans and foolish Republicans fall into.
The net and so they try and do the Democrats work.
Welcome everybody, It's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and forty nine. Hey you, why don't you go to ricochet dot com. Join up and be part of the most stimulating conversation and community you'll find on the web. I'm James Lilyx in Minneapolis. Stephen Hayward is in California, and also in California, sitting in for Charles C. W. Cook, or, for all I know, permanently replacing him by some sort of palace Who is John Woo Coo Woo you?
And a name is you? When when you bow down before your robot over lord, you better get their names right?
You got that straight? Well, gentlemen, I hope your next are okay and haven't been whiplashed too much. But apparently we have another Epstein twist story which I have been sort of minimally following because I don't know what to think. I have had many opinions and they have drained away in importance over the years. But why don't you tell me exactly where we are now? A letter was released, supposedly in a well supposed letter by Drumm and the
Wall Street Journal, threats of suits, threats of consequences. Trump says it's fake and now we're going to release the files. I say that with hesitation because by the time somebody listens to this, they may discovered there's no files whatsoever. They've been burned, and they have been sent into a pit in the year.
I don't know.
So where are we now?
Well, all I was going to say is what I've said before, is that I don't think there's any There was never any list, or at least not a list kept by Epstein, and any reconstructed list is probably unusable. I suspect we've reached the Keystone Cops phase of the investigation. There's just all kinds of problems with it. And I'm more interested in the Richard Epstein files, which could be even more.
Tedious in some ways.
But I don't know. This is now just a giant distraction. And this new wrinkle of Trump sending a birthday greeting to Epstein twenty two years ago, is that right? Something like that? And Trump is now apparently this morning the news is out He's going to sue the Wall Street Churn for publishing what he says is made up. And I don't know. There is this great debate going on on Twitter about whether there's a certain word Trump used in the letter that someone said no, Trump would never
use that word. I forget what it is now, But then someone found video I'm using a you know, a slightly recondite term. I can't believe I can't remember it. But so we're now down to the you know, parsing out what words are in Trump's vocabulary from twenty two years ago. And so it's silly season.
You're saying it's a distraction, John distraction. Who's being distracted? Are you distracted?
I'm terribly distracted, as it seems America and our political system.
I have to say, I enjoy reading about this, just.
In the way you might like reading about how your former employer the workplace is all screwed up. Now, I guess I used to work at the Justice Department. And first idea of people like Cash Pattel and Dan Bongino, who are wonderfully entertaining TV and radio and podcast hosts actually in charge of the FBI. FIRSTUS shocking. Then they made part of it careers by saying that the government had somehow covered up or conspired to kill this Jeffrey
Epstein fellow. And then they get into the FBI and then they say there's no evidence of that, and then all their fellow travelers are now piling on them. The third, I gotta say, there's no way that President Trump can order the release of the Epstein files. Someone you shouldn't
release anything in the Epstein files. And if you've ever seen a raw law enforcement file, you know, to prepare for prosecutions, could be filled with gossip in you window, people you know, getting back at other people, lies, mistruths. It's almost like the transcript of a podcast. Then, so the purpose of this is you don't release that in the public because you're going to besmirch the reputations of
all kinds of people. Usually the only way the justice departments should be speaking is when they indict someone, and the indictment speaks for itself. You don't go around releasing all the gossip and rumors. You come cross. Second point I'll stop here is the really sensitive material has been sealed by a grand because it was presented to a grand jury for indictment.
It has been sealed by a federal judge. The President can't order it released.
The only people can release it would be the judge or Congress would have to change the law about how we keep those things secret. Congress isn't going to do that. So I don't think we're really going to know unless people who are in the files themselves go to the judge and say I want my name to be released. I want to prove my innocence. Perhaps that's only where we're gonna get it.
Highly unlikely, highly unlikely that's going to happen. I can't see anybody. I mean, I can see somebody volunteering to be on a cold Play JumboTron with their mistress before I can.
Well, any way, that just sounds like another cabinet interview with President Trump.
Well again, you know my whole I don't know what we're supposed to find out from these things. I think what a lot of people. There's sort of nations and numbers of q about this, because there's a lot of people who have gone down to the Epstein file as part of the proof that there's this large satanic conspiracy
of trading children around. And I have no idea that I have no doubt that there are people in Washington, d C. In power and finance everywhere who have absolutely appalling records of behavior when it comes to the youth of America or other countries. But whether or not that there's some actual, you know, Pizzagate style thing going on here, I don't think so. Anyway, that's just my naive belief sitting here thousands of miles from anything important. Moving right along,
we've got McMahon versus New York. This is interesting, John, You being the legal guy, why don't you tell us what this one's all about.
So McMahon versus New York, this is the case about just recently decided by the Supreme Court about whether the president can continue to go forward with his reductions in force. This is at the Department of Education and how to explain it. So the Supreme Court did not issue an opinion. The only opinion we saw were from the dissenters. This was just to lift a district court's ban on carrying out the reductions in force. So this is really the
Supreme Court saying, hey, you chriald judges. There's a thousand of them. Hey you guys, did you not read our opinion from two weeks ago in the nationwide Injunctions case?
Do we need to spell it out for you? Let us repeat ourselves.
A district judge cannot stop the entire federal government from carrying out its policies unless it goes to the US Supreme Court. That's all this case says. It's actually not a review on whether President Trump ultimately will win. I think that's going to go back up to the Supreme Court. But in the meantime, the Court said, no single judge in Boston or New York or Maryland is going to sit there and sort of sit and be the onwoodsman
or the micromanager of the executive branch. Now, the important thing that people didn't observe in the news reports is that the government promised that it would not shut down the Education Department unless Congress said so, And in fact, it's said in its pleadings to the court, we're only getting rid of the fat We're not going to fire anyone who's essential for the core operations of the Department of Education. We understand that when it comes down to
shuttering the place, only Congress can do that. And so all these claims in the media of you know, out of control president defining congressional orders, shutting down agencies left and right, it's just not true. It's just not true. Even the Trump administration is court papers says, we understand Congress is preeminent. We're just getting rid of people who are not necessary for the core functionings of the department and try to save money for the taxpayer.
Stephen We've been told that the State Department is now non functional, that war will break out everywhere because because they went through with the with a meat cleaver, with a wood chipper and just absolutely cleaned out the place. Is that what happened?
Of course not I don't have the headcount numbers in front of me, but the State Department's total headcount has gone up by something like ten thousand people over the last fifteen years. And so this twelve hundred thirteen hundred laid off last week is a reduction force of less than two percent. But beyond all that, what do all these people do? Mostly bad stuff? And I've been ranting for quite a while now about three particular places. We spent over a billion dollars to build an embassy compound
in Bagdad. It's the largest US embassy compound in the world, has a very nice reflecting pool by the way, and some nice architecture. And we spent seven hundred million dollars on a huge embassy compound in Kabul, Afghanistan that's now the largest office building for the Taliban. And we're also in the process of building, or may have finished, a
billion dollar embassy compound in Beirut. Now I'll just submit to you that the Israelis did more for the progress and improvement of Lebanon by taking out Hesbola than a billion dollar State Department footprint in Beirut is ever going to do. Why these huge, expensive palaces and the huge staffs that go with them, Well, because of.
Still fair to be fair staved in Beirut. You're going to want the walls to be about fourteen feet thick, so I think.
That's cost Well, yes, but you're going to put hundreds of people in it. And I bet we could do our essential business with maybe fifty people or one hundred people and still have adequate security. You don't need to spend that kind of money. You only spend that kind of money if you have this grandiose presumption that you are there to run the country and run the world. Why do we want to have a big footprint in Kabul Afghanistan, even if we're going to keep some military
force there, which we didn't. It just you know, the shocking waste of all this and presumption of it is to my mind unconscionable. And I think Trump didn't fire enough people from the State Department. I think that you get rid of another ten percent. Oh, Steve, yes, I know, I'm they can all go to work for NPR.
Haha, which brings us to the great cries and lamentations. As I was reading my local subreit about Minnesota and they caught an old lady who lives in the Sticks, who loves the polka show that they run, and now she's not going to have her polka show anymore. I feel for her. I remember the days when AM radio was absolutely full of poker when you drove around the
rural parts of the state. But A, it's possible that locals may pick up the slack if they wish, and B it's possible that she has access to something called the Internet, where one can find in abundance poka of all manner, sort, shape, and variety. We've been told that the cuts are going to destroy in PR and PBS, but A, no, they're not. And B the whole notion of state media in the first place ought to seem a little un American to people. But we've been living
so long with the holy ghost. The whole presence of PBS and NPR held up as a model, an absolute, shining beacon of non partial, essential cultural commission that without it there would be no Masterpiece Theater, there would be no Sesame Street Therapy. Now that'd be a bit true at one time in the past, but it isn't anymore. So it's a small cut and it's not going to destroy these things. And I'm not sure why it's as controversial as it is, unless, of course, James.
I love PBS. I love NPR, actually I do. I really enjoy listening to them. It's just like sitting around at the Berkeley Faculty Club meetings and it's just like on the radio instead. It's great. But look, I actually love Masterpiece there. I love all those British TV shows. I love watching all these ways that the British think of murdering each other. They're so clever at it. They should be killing more of each other. Every British TV show seems to be about who done it? Murders but
loved like watching I Claudius and Brideshead Revisited. But now, if you get a streaming service and you pay I think I paid ten dollars a month, I can watch almost every BBC TV show that was ever filmed, you know. I can watch Steve Hayward's favorite show Doctor Who where the reptilians show up and you can see the floppy arms have human beings in them, and it's really just fake clothes they got on it. It's wonder in black and white,
it's wonderful. But you know what, I've never given a dollar, not a single dollar to NPR or PBS, even though they run these you know, campaigns endlessly because the government paid for it. Now you've put me in this terrible situation where I have to decide where I'm going to give money to keep it going.
Yeah, but John, you really are behind the times. I mean all of the I'll put this way, costume dramas these days are not appearing first on PBS. You know Bridgerton and you know Rome twenty years ago, they're on HBO.
Steve, I don't want you know, you're just watching the ones that you just watch, the ones that have nudity in them. I mean, come on, you can admit it.
Oh no, that was my joke of I never could get into a Game of Thrones because there wasn't enough sex and violence in it for me. I just I actually did find it boring, I have to say.
But yeah, all right, of course I understand exactly what you mean. When I when I was growing up, PBS was the source for Monty Python on Sunday Night, for the Prisoner, for all of these shows, none of which they made, none of which they made, but they brought them over and that was fine and well good. I remember when I was a seed salesman in the South Downe in nineteen seventy nine, I would try to time my weekends for a city that was big enough to have a PBS reception so I could watch I Claudius.
But that was a very long time ago, and things have changed.
Can I say a quick point of order changing? I mean, I think this is relevant if I recall this right. National PBS was offered Monty Python. They said, no, this is too weird. It was a Dallas affiliate that picked it up first, and then it spread from there, so it was a local station and said, actually we think this is pretty funny. I think that's how it went.
I think I think you're absolutely right, and we've been told a different story, perhaps because we've been lied to. Are you being lied to? More friends? Are you being lied to? You know they tell you to defer paying your taxes by saving it a four oh one k or an ira because you'll retire in a lower tax bracket. But if that was true, why are so many retirees in the highest tax bracket of their lives. Look, it's time to get the truth and discover a better way
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to the podcast. Matthew KANINEITI, director of Domestic Policy Studies and the inaugural Patrick and Charlie Neil Chair in American Prosperity at the American Enterprise Institute. And of course he's a columnist at Commentary Magazine and The Free Press, and he's the author of The Right, The one hundred Year War for American Conservatism. Matt, welcome back.
Thanks for having me.
Well, you completed The Right in nineteen or nineteen twenty two points worth. Sorry feel a little old to I retired in twenty twenty two, and you, of course were aware the story was ongoing. I've thought about how the final chapters your book would look if you were wrapping it up today because right keeps getting redefined underneath us, doesn't it?
It does? And I think a lot about that question. If I were to update the story to the summer of twenty twenty five, what would I cover. When the paperback edition of the write came out, it included a new chapter that I had written and sent to press right after the midterm elections of twenty twenty two, and if you recall, that was really the low point of Donald Trump's political strength in the Republican Party. The midterms had not gone as well for the GOP as they
had expected. A lot of that was because of Trump's endorsing candidates who the electric just didn't really like. Trump announced his presidential campaign, his third presidential campaign for the GOP nomination, shortly after the midterm election, and the event at Mar A Lago did not go very well. People weren't really excited by it. All. The energy was on
Ron DeSantis a side. Ron de Santis, who had done very well in twenty twenty two, seemed to represent the next iteration of Maga Mago, perhaps without Trump's baggage, And within six months of the paperback coming out and me saying that there was a chance that the Republican Party might move on from Trump. Trump had solidified once again his position as leader of the GOP and leader of this MAGA movement. One was one reason for that was
his just natural political talent. But the second and main reason I think was shortly after the midterm election is when the law fair campaign against Trump began, and then in the spring of twenty twenty three is when the New York indictment came down as well. That had the effect of rallying the Republican Party to Trump's side, and
it has not left him ever since. So that was the main unanticipated event was the revival of Trump, a revival that only accelerated from twenty twenty three through the assassination attempt one year ago, this past week and into today.
Yeah, my realization that I know absolutely nothing came to me when I thought Thissaners was going to just walk away with it because I thought it was palatable. I thought that he would cross body like he had this proven record of governance and just died on the vine, and I thought, Okay, that's it. My instinct's I'm never going to trust him again. Stephen.
Yeah, So Matt, you're lucky today that we have John Hu sitting in for Charlie Cook. Because you may not know this, but John's nickname or acronym is og NC, which stands for Original Gangst the Neocon. And that brings me to you guys at Commentary. I do tune into your daily podcast fairly often when I'm home and on a walk on the afternoon, and I've noticed something. I mean, let's not put too fine a point on it, but Trump has never been a favorite of John Putt Hart's
an abe and your colleagues. I mean, you're the one person who's always said the nicer things about him. But now suddenly, starting about three weeks ago and maybe more, it seems to me that you guys have signed up for MAGA. And now is it just because he bombed the forid of Nuclear Side, which you know John said on Twitter a couple of times that's enough for me. He's great, right, But I have to say there's been a real change in tone and looks to me like
it's going to last. And so what say you to that provocation?
Well, I can't speak for my colleagues on the Commentary podcast. I have noticed that my friend and leader John pod Hortz has been very positive about Trump's decision to join the Israeli campaign against Iran and bomb the three nuclear facilities in Operation Midnight Hammer. And that is because John and others in our Orbit and Commentary magazine have argued for exactly that sort of military intervention in order to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon for decades, and
it was Donald Trump who actually did it. So Trump deserves to be commended for that. I still think my friends on the Pod are going to have criticisms of Trump now and then, and there are a few things that Trump has done in this administration that I disagree with, but I think overall, what we've seen in this second administration is, first, Trump has advanced conservative priorities, long standing conservative priorities, along with the new MAGA agenda, not all
of which we agree with. But second, and perhaps most importantly, the left's reaction to Trump and the radical swing of the Democratic Party toward socialism, toward anti semitism isolationism is something that my friends, commentary, my colleagues, and I strongly condemn and oppose. So you know, as you know, Steve, in politics, it's often what you're against matters more than
what you're actually for. And when you look at the Democratic Party today, or at least when I look at it, I see everything that I'm against and nothing that i'm for.
Well, let's take another domain. Let's leave Israel aside for a moment. And so just this week, the Republican Congress finally defunded NPR and PBS. You know, people back as far as the Reagan years want to do that. New Gingridge took a run at it, right, and people said, I remember one interview with Nude in nineteen ninety five and someone said, oh, but you'll kill big Bird, and Newt said, back, big bird makes money. Why I think the army. But he didn't get anywhere with it, right.
It took Trump and the Trumpian moment. You might say, to do that as well, and I can think of there are a few stronger care of that whole domain of state run media. Then again, the commentary crowd. So it seems to me you've got to give Trump and the Republican Congress's galvanized just huge props for doing things that they were always too chicken to do previously.
That's right, you know, not only were they chicken to do it, but they just didn't have the consensus within the party. They weren't prepared to do it. This is a paradoxical advantage of having such narrow congressional majorities is there's less room for that marginal member to hide and to throw a wrench into the congressional agenda or to the president's agenda. And Trump has been able to exercise incredible leverage over the Republicans in Congress. That's partly because
Trump is so popular in the Republican Party. It's also because Trump has changed the Republican Party so that people who have been vocally against him or his policies just aren't there anymore. And then it's also I think a result of the twenty twenty experience, the pandemic experience, the great awokening that happened in twenty twenty that had the effect of making many Republicans much less tolerant of taxpayer
subsidized leftism. And whether that was in the schools, whether that's in the universities, or whether it's at PBS and NPR, Republicans as a rule just don't have the tolerance for it any longer. They don't want to continue to spend taxpayer funds propping up anti American, anti Western ideologies.
Hey, Matt, good to see you.
I'm not going to revise any details, but Matt and I were at one of the last remaining as Steve calls them, neo conclaves. I think they were just the two of us there and all these other constr heard. It was great. It was like it was like Back to the Future two thousand and six edition. That was wonderful. I got to see the CONTINENTI family struggle at pick a ball at pick a Ball as Dick Cheney slammed on them with his aeriel Michael Jordan reverse back slam
on the pick a ball court. So, actually, I got to ask you about something I just don't get, which is, why is this Epstein thing causing such a disruption in the Trump I don't know if you can call it a coalition or explain why this is so important. It's totally I think killed Trump's political momentum. He spent the last week talking about Epstein instead of the passage of his tax bill, instead of the recision package, and it seems to be flooding both conservative and liberal media.
What explains this well killing Trump's political momentum explains why the Democrats are so excited by the Epstein story. They have finally found a story. They finally found an issue that puts the administration on its back foot, and that divides the Republican MAGA coalition. It's been months since they've been on the offensive the Democrats. So that's the Democrats,
that's easy. The question is the Republicans and MAGA, and in particular the MAGA influencers, the podcasters, the kind of activist crowd that, at a recent conference held by Charlie Kirk of Turning Point USA, went after the Trump administration
for covering up the Epstein case. Is what's going on here? Well, I think the writer Park McDougall had a very good piece in The Free Press speaking about how what's happening is some of Trump's podcast base has been alienated from the administration in the second hundred, whether that was Operation Midnight Hammer, which they had argued against, whether that was the One Big Beautiful Bill which Elon Musk famously left the GOP over and other figures like Steve Bannon felt
should have raised taxes instead of keeping them low. There's an ongoing debate inside the administration right now about whether there should be some sort of immigration arrangement that either legalizes or at least kind of puts safe caps on safeguards around the migrant worker population or even the hotel worker population. So for on those three axes, you see that the new right wing, the Bannons, the Tucker Carlson's, they are very much on the defensive and they have
real problems with certain policies of Trump. How does this manifest itself, Well, it manifests itself, I think in going after the administration on Epstein. Now, a couple more things. The first is the administration hasn't helped, and that is Attorney General Bondi did over promise and under deliver. Whether it was saying that the Epstein files were on her desk, Maybe I'm sympathetic, she may have misspoken on TV, but you know, when you're ag you have to be careful
with what you say. Whether it was that photo op where they brought the influencers into the White House and then they gave him these binders where it turns out that it was pretty much previously disclosed information about Epstein.
To have those two moments followed a few months later, by this just pronouncement that the investigation was over and that there was no list, there was no blackmail, and there was no foul play in Jeffrey Epstein's death really antagonized a lot of people who look at other stories, whether it's the JFK files that have been released, or whether it's the UFO story where Caroline Levitt came out and she said, we looked into this, what we found that the strange lights in New Jersey that we were
following last year turned out to be all domestically made right. Whether it's the president's health, you know. Just yesterday, in response to people who had been noticing that Trump's ankles had been swollen and the bruise on one of his hands, the administration came out with the letter actually from his physician saying that he has a typical condition for people
of his age that leads to ankle swelling. Epstein, there just hasn't been that same amount of transparency and even though there may be no there there, and I'm very skeptical that there is a there there, that's led to additional question students as well. So it's a combination john of opportunism by the Democrats and never Trumper's, along with a mishandling of the way in which this information was presented to the public on the part of the administration,
which then has produced this kind of revolt. I will just say this finally, the Wall Street Journal story that broke today July eighteenth, before what broke on the seventeenth.
We're recording this on the eighteenth, with the alleged letter that Trump sent Epstein on for Epstein's fiftieth birthday, that has had the effect, it seems to me, of rallying MAGA together, because yes, a lot of MAGA pundits want transparency and they believe in kind of these theories that powerful people are shielding one another from accountability on sex crimes.
But they hate the mainstream media even more, and so if Trump was able to focus on the media as the common enemy, then he might be able to bring the band back together.
I was provided by a producer a quote from your recent piece of yours, James Burnham. I like this quote. I hate it, but I like it. Quote when the Western liberals feeling of guilt and his associated feeling of moral vulnerability before the sorrows and demands of the wretched become obsessive. He often develops a generalized hatred of Western civilization and of his own country as part of the
West End quote. And we've been seeing this everywhere. You see it in stories every single day on Twitter, of course, if the algorithm has figured out that you kind of like these things. One of the most notable to me the other day was they were having a cultural enrichment diversity celebration event at a school in England and a girl wore a Union jack and she had a speech about englishness and how it was wonderful and she was proud to be She was sent home because I was
the wrong. We're not going to celebrate that. Somebody else pointed out that a quote that talked about suicidal empathy, referring to I think it was a New York Times piece which talked about how empathy became a toxic subject
on the right and the rest of it. The idea that one should become a globalist, a global philanthropist before a national philanthropist, because the West has committed so many sins, has done such evil is so uniquely inherently intrinsically bad that the only enlightened position is to detest it and to seek to tear it down, or at least to acquiesce in its destruction. So you wrote that, Explain how you used that quote in your piece and how it applies today to let's say, the campus situation.
Sure well, the quote comes from James Burnham, the Titanic intellectual who exercised such a remarkable influence on William F. Buckley Junior in the National Review. The quote specifically comes from Burnham's book Suicide of the West, first published in
nineteen sixty four. And what I like about that quote, and what I like about that book is this is James Burnham really diagnosing the liberal mentality decades before I was born, and you know, some sixty years before what we've seen on our college campuses after October seventh, this guilt drive that seems to explain a lot of liberal views, in particular their obsession with the victimizer binary and always identifying with the victim, and the victim is always the
victim of Western society or systemic racism or the patriot barchy. That it can be identified throughout the history of the left, in more radical forms, but also in the mildier forms of American liberalism. So it's a very stunning quote, and
I recommend the book, which is still in print. Encounter brought out an edition about a decade ago that you can get to understand liberals, and there are some dated parts, but really that fundamental diagnosis holds up, and we, like you say, we see it on campuses today, and we see it in the anti Semitism, the anti Zionism that's coming from campuses today. This guilt over Israel, the guilt stemming from this idea that Israel is a Western colonial project, which it is.
Not, saying God, I hope so.
The whole.
And so.
This tendency to always fall back on oppress or oppressed uh, and this guilt complex that motivates, I think, a willful blindness among liberals towards the enemies of civilization. This is something that has been present for a long time. In one way, it's reassuring because it means that even though our technology changes, the names and faces change, the fundamentals of politics remain the same. The argument remains the same.
But what I think we need more of today are people who will stand up for the Western civilization, stand up for Biblical civilization. Judaism Christianity, Zionism, and Americanism, the principles and institutions of the American founding, and say that
we're proud of these, we are not ashamed. And if I have to identify one source of Donald Trump's political longevity, I would say is that he does proudly say he is for all these things, and he's certainly not afraid when the left or others try to delegitimize him, demean him, or kill him.
It is refreshing. I mean, because when politicians are the left talk about how much they love America, either the words just sort of turn to ashes in their mouth you don't believe them, or it's a theoretical America that they like. It's one that's never existed that will be perfect if and or when they're particularly I mean like New York's mayor in a year may say I love America, but that's just because he's successfully nationalized every corporation in Manhattan.
Stephen Well, one of the other things you mentioned I can send your book is that Bill Buckley, much more back in the news because of the Townhouse biography, once kind of equivocated about his famous remarket it's better to be governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston phone Directory than the faculty of Harvard University. Okay, so maybe Buckley is at his core an elitist. They used to say, look, when I want heart surgery, I want an elitist doctor. So of course, so you confess
to that. But I've always thought that that phrase should be modified, that it'd be better to be educated by the first two thousand names in the Boston phone directory than the faculty of Harvard University. That I don't think he would dissent on at all. Now, I'm not following the machinations at Columbia at a granuar level, like your successor, the Free Beacon, el Eanla Johnson is, But you're a
Columbia graduate. What's the latest on that? Are you optimistic that for all the blunderbus that Trump is using, much of which I like, maybe all of which I like, are you optimistic that we're actually going to see some fundamental changes at Columbia or anywhere else.
Well, the Free Beacon has been reporting that the administration and Columbia maybe close to a deal, and many in the pro Israel community, many critics of Columbia University. Columbia University are a little bit alarmed at the details of this deal, which has not been finalized. They feel that though Columbia would pay a very large fine and make some changes to its governance, the underlying problems will not
be treated appropriately. So we'll see that what happens. Of course, the deal would have to be authorized by Trump, and he hasn't done so yet. I think, Steve that Columbia's problems run really deep, and they think that there are many decades in the making. And I always have to say I was a little bit shocked when Trump suspended
the foreign student visas to Harvard. There was a flurry of articles about the percentercentage of foreign students at ar Lee University's Columbia, if I recall correctly, was somewhere around forty seven percent of the student body comes from overseas. And that was not the case when I graduated there
twenty years ago. And I think what's happened over the intervening years is that Colombia really decided to become Edward Sayid University really decided to become the institutional body that represented the views of one of Columbia's most famous professors, Edward said, the author of Orientalism and a supporter of the PLO, a critic, vociferous enemy of the State of Israel, and someone who was a stylish literary writer, but who used that verbal ability which he did have to advance
a very anti Western, anti American, anti Israel perspective. That mindset has been slowly embedded into the institution over time because of different decisions by the administration successive administrations. Let's not forget that. When I was there, we welcomed Lee Bollinger, the famous defender of affirmative action, from the University of Michigan.
He came and became president of Columbia University. I think in my final year there two three, and just a few hours years after I left, he ostentatiously invited Mahmud Ahmadinijad to address the campus, the man who had called for the destruction of Israel, destruction of America. You know, a radical Iranian politician. And to get that word radical in front of you, when you're an Iranian politician, you really need to be radical or it's not. It's not
just an ordinary anti American mola. I mean, I'm aninjod if you remember, as I know you do, he was he was out there and yet here he was at Columbia. So this deal, you know, making Columbia pay is important, But if we really want to change Columbia, I always prefer the Carthaginian option.
You Know's well, you know, it used to be said that we want foreign students to come here so they can learn about America and love America and spread their love of America when they go back home. And now it's just like, well, you know what, you can hate America from a distance. From now on, Colombia is only going to be for American kids, so they can so our kids can learn how to hate America the Columbia way. Johnny got something, I got a last one from that before we go.
Yeah, I'm just curious about So this split you were talking about before within the GOP that you see reflected in the response at Epstein files, what do you think that shows about the struggle inside the administration? You know, is this is this the JD. Vance wing versus the Marco Rubier wing? What does suggests for what's going inside
the administration? And uh, you know, if you I mean so early, but you know, how do you think this plays into handicapping who you know Trump's successor is going to be.
Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's less about a struggle inside the administration because it's clear from the past several weeks that Trump is the decider. Trump is the most powerful force in the administration, and even if people are counseling alternate approaches, they really don't bring their their differences of opinion to the public. So there really is Trump that he he defines what that administration is
going to do. And as we were talking about in his true social posts this past week, he said that the critics, the outside critics of his position and appin were former supporters. He doesn't want their support. I think where this really comes into play, though, John is the twenty twenty eight stakes, and clearly JD. Vance is the front runner for the Republican nomination in all the polls. He's far and away ahead in first place. He is the incumbent vice president, which always counts for a lot.
But I do think that Vance is has his kind of eyes over his shoulder at a potential candidate from the more online wing of MAGA, the podcaster wing, if you will, would Tucker Carlson decide to run for the Republican nomination. That would present a political challenge for Vance and how he formulates his policies and message. At the same time, though, I also think that what's been revealed over the past few weeks is these podcasters don't have
much influence. You know, we're looking at polls of Republican support for Trump. Republican support for Trump went up during the Epstein scandal, even as the public says the administration should be handling it better and should disclose more information. So the same thing with Operation Midnight Hammer. By the way, all the polls we have showed that Republicans really support Trump's peace through Strength approach on Iran. So I do
think there's more bark than them bite here. But it's one reason that Vance is very circumspect about how he handles these more controversial issues for the podcast.
Right, the idea that podcasters are not influential is one of those ridiculous statements.
Men, well the other podcasts.
You're absolutely right, And it's the same thing with people who marinated on twitter x all day. You become convinced of a certain line of thought that it's the dominant line of thought. It shapes everything that you hear, and you're completely unaware that most people don't agree, don't know what you're talking about, and don't care, or.
They view it as entertainment.
Right.
I think a lot of people just watch these podcasters and it's just something to do. It's better than what's on TV, that's for sure, But that doesn't mean they're going to believe everything they say or act on what they say, and.
It doesn't necessarily mean that they even listen to the podcast. They may see a video clip that shows up on TikTokers. They're scrolling between a million different feeds. Well, thank you for being on with us today. Man. I have to say, you had the opportunity to write an extra chapter to that book about twenty two that ended with twenty twenty two, and you did not go back and redcon the rest of it so that you could be proven absolutely correct.
It's a marvelous opportunity you've missed. But it shows that you are an ethical man and we admire that also.
Lazy.
Yeah, right, Well, we'll look to see what your next prediction is and then we will go on and bet, perhaps in a contrary wise based on that so we got to get that average out there. Matt Conanetti, follow him, Mariam wherever you got them, And it's been a pleasure as ever to talk to you today. Have a great rest of July you too, Thanks again back by. So we need to tell you about a couple of things before we head out here, and one of them is, well, well,
we got Ricochet meetups. That's right. Ricochet is not just a website with a bunch of guys who gam are away on podcasts. It is a community and if you go there and you sign up for the member feed, which is cheap, you get access to all kinds of new friends. Frankly, that's what they become quite quickly, and then they get together sometimes periodically in person and talk
about generally anything except politics. The Ricochet meetups I've been, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can talk about that, but there's so much more to discover about each other and share it and talk. Hey, you're into old coins from Rome too, so am I? And if you go so we got three coming up here, we think. Matt Ballser holding the annual German Fest meet up July twenty fifth to twenty seventh, In of course, Milwaukee, Randy Wilva.
I never pronounced your name right, Randy, And as a guy who's been Lilix all of his life instead of the correct Lilacs, you have my sympathy anyway, Randy. Long standing members assembling a group to meet in Detroit August fifteenth through the eighteenth. Huh, I wonder if I'm going to be anywhere close and Red Herring, I am so tempted. Just posted about a Ricochet at Sea cruise meetup to
tour the Caribbean in December. If you're a fan of the old National Review cruise is you know what that's like. It's a great ship. Actually, it's one of the new ships. I haven't been on it and just bobbing are on the Caribbean for a week, having good meals, enjoying the buffet and the shows and the conversations and nights up in the Crow's Nest. I miss it, I really do. And I am tolutely tempted anyway. So that's that. So, John, what's on your mind that you would like to leave
us with. I'm curious about your take, since you are a Californian, and you since you know the state intimately, whether or not. People there are more upset about the funding of the train to nowhere, or upset about the fact that Ice, cruel mean Ice is apparently keeping pot farmers from using illegal migrant children to.
Grow the weed.
Where are we as a country, for Heaven's sakes.
Well, since Steve is the only one who's ever likely to see either Sings in person, high speed rail or the pot farms right given where he lives down in the center of the state. But I can tell you up here in San Francisco people are pissed off about the pot They don't they We're never going to see the high speed rail up here. Although I have to say, and I think Steve agrees with this, people san Francisco are suddenly turning optimistic because we have a mayor who
doesn't seem to be a left wing radical. Crime is dropping, the streets are becoming safer. I think businesses are returning. And it's all because we put the guy whose family made Levi jeans in charge.
Now that's where.
That's you know, that's when I hope we can get the guy from Wrangler to come next, because.
They are turning the city around.
Right right right, So on the by the way they're saying, I'm surprised James that you didn't Maybe you did think of the link between high speed rail and getting high on pot. I mean they want to run the rail through the pot farms. I think one thing. You know, I am not far away from those pot farms in Camerio. I drive by there when I head down to Pepperdine every week during the semester, and I watched the TV
news coverage and it was all hysteria. You know, they kept interviewing the protester around the corner saying this is the Gestapo, this is fascism, all the rest of that. Well, I know a few people in the egg business down in that area, and they all hate the pot farms because they're some smelly and intrusive, and a lot of them got their permits during COVID. I have a sneaking suspicion that the media will never investigate that a lot of those other people in the egg business are the
ones who dropped the dime on them to ice. I'll bet some of those people called up Eisen said, you know who's got a whole lot of illegal farm labors and children working or this this this farm Otherwise, how did Ice know to go, you know, ninety miles north of Los Angeles to conduct those raids. I am convinced that is what happened, and you heard it here.
First listeners entirely possible, or drone surveillance using some sort of height calibration devices. I mean, who knows, who have absolutely no idea, But yeah, I mean I don't want to. I don't like the pond farms either, But dead generally has to do with my dislike of the stuff today because it is absolutely everywhere. The guy who stole my car was reeking of the stuff, and when I got in my car it actually went. After it was recovered,
it still had that faint skin. No, No, I had a driver on for a day with the windows open and the AC blasting full, just to get it out. I mean, just the guy had spent maybe thirty five minutes in my car, and it was permeated with weed smoke, and downtown when I work downtown, which I don't anymore, you would just smell it wafting off people as they and it's just I don't remember it from my youth smelling that bad. As a matter of fact, I remember
having an almost attractive aroma to it. But there's something about modern pop culture and modern pot strength and the rest of it that I don't think it's a good idea. I really don't. I don't think that you can't.
Afford the good stuff back then. James. That's what.
Yeah, right, Minnesota, ditchweed is what we're talking talking about. You. That stuff that they brought up from from the south of the state in black plastic garbage banks, bushels.
It like tumb me anyway now, James, Yeah, So since you you brought it up briefly, how was your first two questions? How was your first week of retirement? You may have talked about the diner, which I have not caught up with, but how was your first week of retirement? And secondly, after my dad retired and started working from home, my mother said they should have changed the wedding vows to for better or for worse, but not for lunch.
My dad drove my mother nuts. So how is missus Lilacs adjusting to your new retirement regime?
Fine? Because I get into the house the first week. The first week was great. First week seemed to be primarily paperwork because getting your pension on your social security and all these things requires phones and forums and the rest of it, because, as I said in the podcast before, everything that came to you as part of your employment was just this gravy that naturally flowed from their bucket to yours, the paycheck, the health insurance, all the rest
of it. And once that's gone, you have to get it yourself and clawed in and fix all these things and dot the eyes. I ended up calling Social Security on Monday morning, being the first in the queue, and it was expecting two hours of gruesome wait time and then some an indifferent bureaucrat who didn't care about my story, the whole Brazil movie thing, And what I got was a kind, pleasant, easy to understand, a helpful woman who really wanted me to get my money and really wanted
to help. And it was the first experience I'd had with the system, and I was I was impressed with its.
Professionals, except your creation. After you, what is this social security?
You speak of nothing, John, You don't have to think about it, you don't have to worry about it. Boom us boomers will just sop it up and then pull the gate, pulled the bridge, you know, the Drawbridge up with us. So there was that and that was nice. But it's been finding a new gym. It's been doing stuff around the house that I've been putting off. It's
been realizing that I don't have to sort of subject. Well, the funny party is really is that the last thing I did before I left the paper was to file a piece that was the antithesis of the thing that they'd wanted me to write. When they took away my column, the idiots in charge of that said, now we want you to write, but we don't want you to write opinions, and we don't want you to write humor. So the last thing I did there was to hit send on a piece to the op ed section. And the op
ed section, of course, can do whatever it likes. And I sent them a humorous piece with opinion about being carjacked, and they not only published it, they put my name in the headline as if to say, hey, everybody, that writer you liked, he's right here. And it did baffo business. So that's that, and that was the end of the paper. But I've been writing tons. I've got my substack to do, I've got a new video series. I'm ramping up. I've got the bleat, I've got a book that I'm putting together.
So yeah, it's been wonderful and I've been relieved of the opportunity to go downtown and to be frank. I don't miss it a bit.
So Yl's unleashed, Lileox unleashed, I'll call it. And by the way, James, you you know, I should have known that you would make a fleeting reference to the greatest anti bureaucratic movie ever made, that being Brazil from nineteen eighty six. So I have to tease you. Did you see the director's cut or the theatrical release?
I've seen both.
God, I'm gonna shoot myself.
I don't see. That's why I brought it up.
I thought I kind of escaped the three whiskey hap how and all these crazy references by coming to this podcast.
No, no, no, Michael Baylon is a friend of mine and so I think he did really well. No, but yes, but no, we we had dinner together in London a year and a half ago. Wow, we have mutual friends.
So did you say John stepped on your line? You say he liked the theatrical or the kid?
I'm kidding. We never got around to it. I never asked him about his work. I asked him about this stuff you talk about, this stuff that other people don't ask about. And when we did a show, my friend and I who knows him, did a show in London last he came to the show and it was a highlight of my life to look out at the audience and see Michael freakin Peylins sitting there smiling at our at our bits and our routines, and he remembered me. After we I got to introduce him to my wife
and daughter. My daughter was absolutely thrilled. He's about the nicest man on the planet. He really is just a decent guy. I gave him a bag of swag from Minnesota, including spam. I mean, you can't not make a spaw way for a time, so I gave him. I gave him spam from the source, from the absolute source, and a copy of my book that with which he could do as he pleased.
Another kind of spam.
So so yeah, Brazil Is Brazil is a great movie. I think DeNiro is miscast in it somewhat. But and Jonathan Price apparently, you know, he had his difficulties the woman, Kim Kim. What was her name, Alistair Kim. She was apparently a pain for everybody, but she was a great eighties heart throb with that short hair and that sort of go to spirit. Great movie depressing ending. I love Terry Gilliam. He's another Minnesotan and a brilliant man. But
that's probably his highlight, I guess. And it's been a while since I've seen it. I'll have to go back and give it another look.
Yeah, well that'll be it.
Unless you, guys want to talk about a movie or television show that you think the viewership should listen to. So you've got about a minute, John, what are you watching?
Oh?
I just watched the third seed final season of Squid Game and I'm about to start the course. I'm just about to start a Foundation on Apple TV. I've been I love this series. I mean I love the books when they came out. I mean I wasn't around when they came out, but I read them.
John, have you heard have you heard anything about that Foundation television show?
Yeah?
It's bad.
Oh, I mean it's so different from the books, but I love.
Yeah, I love the books. And then I watched the first couple of episodes, and I said, I hate everybody involved.
Yeah, I mean, it's a different story, but I'm kind of curious how they changed it or updated it. You know, it's I think, isn't it directed by the guy who has done a lot of superhero movies and so on. It's it's certainly got that take on it. Yeah, and then I'm about to start watching Star Trek, you know, the Star Trek series on Parallel Plus. I think that's starting in a week or so.
Be very careful for If it's Discovery, don't watch it. If it's strange New Worlds, You're absolutely going to love it.
But why would you make a New Worlds?
But I don't get it. We're going to make a movie about the Foundation books that everybody loves, but it's not going to be that story. It's like we're going to make Lord of the Rings, but it's actually going to be about a couple of women traveling around Southwest America in a car. I don't make It's not that hard. I mean, yes, the first book is episodic from what I understand, because asthmov cobbled together various stories, yeah, stories, you know, but you know that's what Raymond Chandler did
with his novels. But that's fine, go episodic. I don't care. Just give me those stories please. But yeah, I understand, I understand. So I didn't watch. The second was the season of Squid Games because I just figured that it sort of left the story where it was and it was such an appallingly violent show in the first place that I really did not want to go back to that world ever again period. But then again, I watched Mobland,
So what do I know, Steven? You Yeah, I've I have to stop saying Johnny's on the podcast.
That will confuse him.
Right, I finally got my last name, right.
Yeah. The only thing I've watched lately because I've been too busy to watch anything, is the Netflix documentary about the Ocean Gate Titan submersible. And the amazing thing there
is it's almost an hour and forty minutes long. The amazing thing is that a Stockton Rush guy was such a megalomaniac that apparently had either a film crew or people's cameras constantly, so you have footage of the whole saga, which now looks very bad, of course, right, And then I interviewed the engineers, he fired, and so forth, so that I found the interesting. You know, you knew what the ending was going to be, but it was still
fascinating watching. Otherwise have been too busy to take in anything except for John when he appears on Outnumbered on Fox, where this week he outdid himself by engaging in fat shaming. So I'll just leave it at that.
I didn't even know that fat shaming was a thing. I thought you to make fun of the fat kidding class, Like, what under that rule change? I still do it when.
I teach I was the fat kidding class. What did you do? What did you say?
Oh? So the you know this Outnumbered show, you know you're the guy in the middle. There's four Fox four women have Fox hosts on the couch with you, and half the show's about current events. But then the second half of the show where I really unprepared his popular culture and lifestyle. So they said, the use of ozepic has gone up amongst children because there's a juvenile you know, outbreak of juvenile obesity. So they said, what do you think?
And I said, I know a secret, you know, recipe for weight loss.
It's called sports.
And I say, just get the fat kid out there, make him play sports every day.
That's what I had to do growing up.
I went to school, I had to play sports every single day. I hated it because as a good Asian kid, I just wanted to go back for preparing for the exams, but they wouldn't let me. So I learned these sports and I'm glad I did. I was forced to, and I still play some of those sports today.
But then we don't need.
Know of zempic. Just get the kid, kick the kid in the butt and make him go play sports.
That's incredibly so.
Steve immediately says, I'm shaming fat kids right because he's so sensitive to the plight of the week and underserved community.
Let me make this then a promo John Woo's promo for The Diner, which discusses the trials and tribulations and humiliations of being the fat kid in junior high in gym class which I was more grade school, but the last guy to be struck in battleball, the last guy to stagger across the finished line of this.
It worked, James, because now you're in great shape because of humiliation.
That's precise. That's exactly why. Because I was shamed, and I was ashamed of myself, and I was determined not to be that kid, thinking someday it'll be the fiftieth high school reunion and I'll come back and I'll walk in fit and all of the old jocks will be dead or have a big you know, or be out of shape.
So yeah, tell me it wasn't that satisfying? Did that make you warm and fuzzy inside?
I haven't hit it yet, but yet, fiftieth anniversary. I think that's next year. Oh good old. Anyway, with that cheerful note, we would like to thank bank on yourself. Go there and find out exactly what they're talking about for these investments and these opportunities for you support us also by becoming a best part of the best place for civil and center right conversation. That would be Ricochet. And am I going to ask you to do a five star review on Apple Podcasts? Or am I not?
I don't know. It's Shortinger's into the show thing this week, so just leave it at that. Thank you, John, It's been a pleasure, Stephen. Always good to hear from you. Next week, John, I hope you're back. You know, it's because it's.
I'm always available.
You know. I've been waiting and waiting to get a call back from the Bush leagues to play in the MLB within the show the show. I finally made the show again and.
We're happy to have you here. So we'll see everybody next week, and we'll see you possibly tonight in the comments on Ricochet four point zero. Bye bye,