Wasfia Nazreen On The Spirituality of Climbing The Seven Summits

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is next level. It is truly Swiss innovation at its best. Visit on.com slash rich roll and use code rich roll 10 at checkout to get 10% off your first purchase. Mountains like Everest give you an excuse to give up every single moment. Nothing is going to go according to plan up there. A lot of people can't deal with that. Of course physical training is needed. Of course the high altitude training is needed. But if you don't have the mindset, you're not going to last out there.

Waspian Nazarene is a trailblazing force of nature. Patients is the biggest thing that you need up there. Like mother earth can just toss you out in a fraction of a second. I've seen it over and over. I've seen earthquakes, avalanches, anything and everything that you knew could be gone in a fraction of a second. The first Bengali and the only Bangladeshie to summit K2 and the seventh summits. Waspian is a National Geographic Explorer. Recognize is one of the most adventurous women of the

last 25 years. Who has shattered countless records and stereotypes as both a mountaineer and an activist. We all come here for a very short time and we must make this a very purposeful time. Don't ruin it. As much as Waspian's feats are extraordinary, it's her backstory that's even more remarkable. It's one of courage. It's one that's marked with resilience.

And just unbelievable fortitude in the face of almost unspeakable hardship. It's also deeply spiritual in nature and one that has been heavily influenced by her very special friendship with this holiness, the Dalai Lama. And it's one I'm deeply honored to share with you today. Whatever circumstances we are in, we're all suffering and we're all climbing our own

mountains. But there is no mountain high enough for us to climb. If I could do everything that I've done from the background that I came from, anything is possible. Super nice to meet you. Delighted to have you here. And as I was wrapping my head around your story and digging deeper into who you are, what struck me beyond your accomplishments, which are certainly impressive, is really the story behind it, which I think is even

more extraordinary. We're going to talk about the summits and all these amazing things that you've done. But I'm really interested in the depth of that experience and the experiences that you had, the formative experiences that kind of led to these accomplishments, which are really just external manifestations of this interior journey that you've been on. Climbing our inner mountains. Yes, that's right. It's an honor to be here.

The metaphysical mountains. Thank you for having me, first of all. I've been looking up to you for many years and it's a real honor. And I think this is karma too. How we got connected and all that. Yeah, real pleasure to be here today. Excellent. Maybe we should just start at the beginning, growing up in Bangladesh. Paint a picture of what that

was like. I mean, we all know of Bangladesh, but I think at least in the Western world, there's a lot of confusion or misunderstanding or an incomplete understanding of what that experience must have been like for you. So people who might even not know where Bangladesh is. It's on the left side on the map of India. And before my like during my parents' generation, so pretty recent, what is now Bangladesh, Pakistan and India used to be one country.

So 71 was when Bangladesh liberation war happened. And I was born in, you know, the first as the first generation of Bangladesh. And I paint that picture first because we grew up with a lot of stories, every single person that I know going up, well, where rebels, like freedom fighters. I think that was very instrumental in the foundation aspect of it and teaching me how to stand up for myself. But personally speaking, my parents, and

this is going to a long story. So I'm going to make it short. So, you know, I was born to a musician, mom, and he's also a school teacher and my father worked in the ships in Biao Bengal, which is the largest delta in the world. And near that delta is the Sundar Bans, which is the largest mangrove forest in the world where the Bengal tigers are from. So because of my dad's work, I guess the fact that I was literally in touch with nature

from the very beginning. And this is a region in the world where cyclones, floods, I mean, we used to, I still remember growing up, make fun of Americans freaking out over a storm. And we're going through the worst cyclones. And I've seen stuff from the earliest that I can remember, like nature, we just knew nature was the God regardless of which religion we came from. And I grew up in a very secular community. My mom, you know, predominantly

Bangladesh is Muslim, but it's a very secular Islam, our whole constitute. Like when Bangladesh, what is now Bangladesh and Pakistan separated, we were East Pakistan. And what is now Pakistan was West Pakistan with India in the middle, which was already independent. So we have our language, Bengali, mother tongue, when Pakistani government basically or army made Bengalis speak in Urdu, which is their language. And this is when hundreds and thousands of my parents

generation students came out when they brush fired. And that day was 21st February when based on which the mother international mother language day was formed. Anyway, these are just little stories to say, like we grew up with this. And then at the age of 13, one fine day, I found out that my mom left the house. That's all I knew. We didn't know if she was going to come back. I was hoping she would, but it was kind of because it was

such a small town where we were living. You know, we call this cities, but they're very kind of like a rural city. And she was the teacher in my school. So I, and it was such a scandal that I just stopped going to school. And my father was at work the whole time.

My brother was out. And you were how old 13 12 to 13. And so like I had nobody. And so after being absent in school for almost nine months and just being on my own, I wrote or called an aunt in Dhaka, which is the capital of the country, and saying that, you know, like I asked my father first because he had no choice. He had to work. He had to be in the ships. So we, we took a decision together that it's probably best for me to move

with her. And then I requested her like, can you please put me in an English medium school? So till that age, I didn't know how to speak English. So in our country, we have two modes of schooling. One is English and one is Bengali. So I moved to Dhaka city and from the age of 13 to 18, I went through rigorous, like discipline of, because I knew the only ticket out is my education. Because if I could educate myself and provide for myself, then I can

cut through this at that time. There was this whole pressure of like, who the hell is going to marry this girl? She has her mom's shame. Right. So, so your mom's splits, your parents get divorced. They ultimately go and create new families. You're left but twisted in between with nowhere to go. You end up with your aunt in this English speaking school. And you start, I mean, you're an athlete. You're playing volleyball and handball, but you're

also doing theater like you're kind of an artistic, but also athletic kid at the same time. But I would imagine having a bit of an identity crisis trying to understand, you know, how you ended up in this place. While at the same time, having a deep understanding of how important education is going to be in terms of your trajectory, because, you know, Bangladesh is

exactly getting an A plus on the women's rights, you know, report card, right? So talk a little bit about what it's like for a young woman growing up in Bangladesh in terms of access to opportunity and being upwardly mobile. To be frank, at that time, like that period was just survival for me. Like I didn't think of these things like logically. I was just doing

to just survive and get the hell out of there. So for example, I went to that school, but then as soon as I was in the school, I was in my mind, I was like, okay, I have heard of my older cousins be out, you know, going for study abroad. And so I need to get the hell out of here. So I was aiming, even without telling my aunts that at the age of 18,

as soon as I graduate, I'm going to apply to colleges and that's my ticket out. Because I knew that if I stayed in Bangladesh, I would not be able to choose life as I wanted for myself. Also, I think that one incident, just to give context, every other aunt of mine was married off as a teenager. So that I'm the next generation. So in arranged marriages. Majority, yeah. Well, I have one aunt from my dad's side who had a love marriage, but

from all my mom's side was arranged. Yeah. So before my mom left, I was the most timid, silent kid. I did nothing. I would walk and follow follow. Like I was clumsy. I was very vulnerable. That one incident overnight made me completely opposite spectrum. It's like, I need to stand up for myself. I don't want to end up like her. I don't want to end up

like any of my aunts. So when I started applying for colleges, I went to my dad for money and then my stepmom told me that they had enough only enough money for the son, which was her son, which wasn't true. First of all, so I was so pissed off with that one answer. I went back and this one college in the catered Georgia gave me 100% scholarship. I wrote to an uncle who lived in London at that time. My father's older brother for enough money

for the ticket. And I think he gave me a few hundred bucks extra, said me a few hundred bucks extra. And then that was it. And bought a ticket came to the catered Georgia thinking it was going to be like New York because that's all I do. And then I landed. That was to been quite shocking. I was you know, in terms of a cultural shift. Can you imagine as an 18 year old good girl from Bangladesh arriving in America, thinking she was coming to

in the in the south. And then the catered Georgia was very different back than my first in my within my first semester. I almost got gang raped. There was like in the middle of violence and I was like, holy shit, where did I come? Wow. And then I applied right away for a study abroad. And I got into another college in Scotland. And I left for six months and ended up staying in Scotland through my college, Agnes Scott College

in Decatur, Georgia, who was paying for it. And I kept extending it six months went into your year into two years till Agnes Scott wrote and saying, Hey, if you want to graduate with a degree from our college, you need to return. So then I came back and then by that time Atlanta had changed a little bit. And then during my final year, I got another grant to go to India to study how women were using artists therapy because it was double

majoring in studio art and psychology at that time. And that is the trip that changed my entire life. Yeah. Your survivor, like you figured all that out on your own without any kind of like helper support. Passcarpa. Yeah. But this this call to activism was that always part of your internal makeup, like this, this, this sense that the first thing you wanted to do when you finished university was go to India. Oh, I hadn't even finished

the university. So that's in my senior year. Yeah. I actually never came back for my graduation. Oh, you didn't. No, you did graduate. You just didn't go through the. So you went up in India. So I go to India and we had like, I think 12 to 16 regions or locations we had to go and Tharam Sala was the last in that. I had no idea about Tharam Sala. This is pre, I wouldn't super internet, but this is when you had to learn typing with those Macintosh

computers. There was no Instagram or anything. So I end up in Tharam Sala. There was this group of Tibetan. The fact that Tibetans even lived in India, I was not familiar with it. So this group of women who some of whom were former prisoners in Chinese prisons, both lay practitioners and nuns, they had by foot came out of Tibet. You've been to Tharam Sala and I have so many questions about that. But in Tharam Sala and the main road parallel to

the temple road, there's the refugee center. That's like one of the main places where refugees come in when they cross the Himalayas and the second place is Nepal. So these women you were using, many practices, one practice is called Tonglin, which is the whole act of taking in your enemy or perceived enemy's karma, negative karma and sending out your merits to them. And these women were sitting and radiating the type of glow that I had never

seen. And I still remember like, I wanted to be them because I thought I had it wrong. And I was in a very negative space. This was kind of like where if these women didn't come at that time, I don't know if I would be alive because I was really contemplating that kind of like, okay, I had no father to look up to mother to look up to an old or brother to look up to have no role models. I struggled so much through college trying

to, you know, just struggling. And then I thought I had it wrong. But look at these people, they've lost their motherland, they've lost their holy places. They've been stripped naked, taken their nuns and monks vows of made to do things. And all of them physically brutalized, some of the women were sterilized. But they have one inch of hate towards their so-called

enemies. And it was so freeing just witnessing that joy. And I was bawling my eyes out throughout the whole time and these women are sitting in their full power, you know, just so on the way back on that flight out, I took the bus from Tharam Saladudelian in that flight back from Delhi to Atlanta was I just knew instantly I have to go back. I don't know what is there, but I remember my professor and at that time, and my dean was like, you're in your elements. I have never seen

you like this. And then I came back, this is post 9-11, international students were having a very hard time getting work permit. And my name sounds very Muslim, but I had a work permit. I had a confirmed job in San Francisco that I was going to go to after graduation. But in that trip back, in that flight back, I decided hell no. And I came back, had a yard sale, just about enough money

to buy a ticket back to India, Delhi. And I did that. And then the embassy informed me that I had to go back to Bangladesh to return my work permit because you cannot go around the world with a valid work permit if you're not working in the US. So I had to go back to Bangladesh first, go to American embassy. And I still remember the guy was like, are you sure? He asked me thrice. And I had to say every time, yes, yes. So he refused it without prejudice. You have to just put

a stamp on it. And then I took a flight out to Delhi and moved to Daramsala. And ended up living there seven years on. Seven years. And you just showed up without any idea of how this was all going to work. And I had two or 50 bucks in my pocket. And it was those women. I mean, what was, you know, can you explain a little bit more about what that pull was all about and why you felt so strongly about returning? I think whole growing up, I never felt like I fit in. And when I arrived

in Daramsala for the first time, I felt everyone I knew and everything I knew. I didn't at that time, I couldn't understand Tibetan, but Tibetan was more familiar to my ears. And like we say, now, it's all past karma. Yeah, I was going to say it's some past life thing. Yeah, I've had so many past lives, so, so many past lives into that. Anyway, but at that time, as soon as I moved to Daramsala, not knowing, not having any guarantee of if I could ever get a work here, can I stay?

Within the first week, I got a job offer within less than two months I met. I'll get into all that part of it. But they just, you like as a journalist, right? That was the job that you got. So the first page up, because there's a lot of work you can do in Daramsala. A lot of it is volunteer work. And I was all volunteering with several nonprofits all related to human rights work with Tibetans. So the group of women that I may met was through this organization called

Gutsu Sam. It's an ex-prisoners organization. I'm sure you pass through it. It's the two main roads in Daramsala. But Payul, which is, which means motherland in Tibetan, is the news archive that was especially at that time, because it was pre-Olympic games, which happened in 2008. It was way before that. But getting right information from inside Tibet is very, it's a big deal, because of the way the Communist Party controls news and everything. So my job was to basically the

informer. I had a pseudonym. All my publication doing that was under a pseudonym. So I was the informer going inside Tibet out Nepal, all over Tibetans lived refugees or inside Tibet. And I was a special correspondent for Daramsala. So the most famous person in Daramsala is of course, his holiness, the Dhananamayan. That's the main. The most famous person in the world. And he lives in this little village. You know, Daramsala is sort of, you know, it's not like,

it's not like some booming metropolis. It's a tiny little mountaintop village. Well, it's grown so much now. When I lived there, there was no, none of these bars and the fancy resorts. And like, it's, it's crazy how much development that has happened. But it's all to a comedy, all the people that that pilgrimage there to visit with him. Yeah. And then when I, you know, Paiul, I was working with it. And then I would meet you're familiar with the temple, right?

Like right in front of his holiness house. So he would come walk from the house to the temple. And during that walking time, there were many times you would just within thousands of people just straight look to me and wave. And there was always a direct darshan. And sometimes my Tibetan journalist would put me in the front because he paid so much attention to me just to get that shot

and use me as the bait. And so I was just happy with that. And also now that now I look back and I realized that just being around him brought so much healing, just the light and the touches, you know, like they were instrumental during that time. And then for my healing at least. And then one day I'm getting ready to go to work super early. I get a phone call that, you know, we didn't have smartphones then. I don't recognize the number. And I say, hello,

I said, Mr. Nazrin, no one calls me Mr. Nazrin. So I knew it was an official call. So I said, yes, it's like, oh, I'm calling from Holiness's office. At some point, did you express meeting him? I said, of course, I said, do you still want to meet him? And then I was like, this is a prank call because what's going to call and ask you want to meet the Dan? I said, of course, I still want to meet him. He said, oh, can you come now? And I'm like, shit, like I was in Upper Tharam Salah,

my home at that time near Tipa. You've been to Tipa. I think the culture is entered. And it was pouring raining outside. So I had to get from Tipa to there. And I know, his Holiness was super particular. If he says eight, he's there at 759. So I was just washing while still holding the phone to get a sorry. Like this is the first meeting. And I had only 30 minutes left to go meet him. So he went and those my first meeting and he was waiting there.

I think it was sharp at eight. That meeting was barely 21 at that time. Why do you think that he felt compelled to reach out to you? I think he heard of me from his brother who I had worked with earlier or not worked with just new through Paiul. He heard that there was a Bangladeshi woman in town who's working for Tibetan human rights. That's why he called me. But when I met him in the first meeting and before

we I was leaving the first day, there's several exchanges that happened. But when I look back now, that was my first teaching on karma. I was in my mind thinking, wow, just last week, I checked out this spot where I could fall from. I was looking at locations. But I was kind of scared, oh, that's going to hurt. Maybe I'm not going to be able to leave. What if I get paralyzed for the rest of my life? You mean you were exploring some self-harm options?

Like that's the mental and emotional state that you were in. And as that thought came into my mind, his holiness looked at me and just said, my old friend, we're all here because of our karma. And I don't know if you've heard his laughter yet. But a lot happens during that laughter. And it was like a thunder that just strikes me on my chest. And then the next line was, you have a precious human birth, which is the first concept, which I didn't know in Tibetan studies, like to value

how long it took us to come to this human form. We have six realms of existence. And the human realm is the most, how to say, human realm is the only realm where we can ascend into enlightenment. And there are humans who are living in the God realm. Like they have no, a lot of people in Hollywood are in the God realm. They have no, you know, they have endless money, everything that you need in this world to survive. But they're so, like their desire is so much with it and they're

enjoying it so much is that they're not going to work towards. They don't have enough obstacles to work to transform them and seek enlightenment. Does that make sense? Yeah, I understand that. Yeah. So, so yeah, he told me that and then went back to his, he has a small office inside the main room and then brought me in there and then gave me my first amulet that many amulets from him.

That was the first, he said, you're going to be needing this one. And he understood what he meant at that time and that amulet is related to, you know, in the Tibetan text, there's a lot of deities and technically, there are all energies or avatars within our own selves. Pal de lamo is the protectorate of Tibet and Dalamo. That's his principal protectorate of feminine entity, very wrothful. So, he gave me the protection amulet related to Pal de lamo

and taught me the text that I'm supposed to read. This is like all in the first meeting. And I'm trying to wrap my head around everything. I'm so young. And he gives this and so then instructs his assistant to give me the prayer to call her in and said, you'd be going to be needing that. And then he said, me off. And then since then, I mean, I don't remember how many times

I've met him. But the inference that you're making about this first meeting is that on some level, he had an awareness of what you were going through and felt like he could be a benefit to you in salving this wound. Perhaps, but also one specific thing that he said is like, you're here because we have car, I mean, he didn't say we have karma. He said because of your own karma. And so karma, which we can extend into later, but I feel like the first few years of this life,

none of it is karma from this life. Like the connection I have with, let's say, Dalama or any other Tibetan teachers that didn't come from this life. It's accumulated karma from many, many, many past lives. That's why he called me as his old friend when I walked in. I think he, it was needed for me to meet him at that time the way I met him. And he could see that this woman somehow I need to detour her from this because I was going back to my past and I was not willing to leave

Daramsala. And I was so heavily involved in free Tibet. And this, when I share the later stories, like he would constantly call me and just say, this is, this is not your fight. And I would be like, no, I'm freeing Tibet this lifetime. You don't understand, Kundun. We refer to him as Kundun, which was the one with the presence. And in my mind, I would be like, what the, like what? He can't appreciate that I'm serving his cause. Like I've never met a leader who's

like removing me from his cause. But he saw the danger that I was going to get into. And to be very frank, like he's the one who brought me to the mountains. I had no goal to be a mountaineer. He was the one who said, your, your, your path is in the mountains. And it's not with freeing to bet. It's more to do with the mountains and also the women of Bangladesh. Like he sort of pointed, he sort of tuned your compass to that. Yeah, but I was fighting with him. Even when he said,

you're supposed to be leading the women of Bangladesh. I was like, what? I'm freeing to bet. I like that you were mixing it up with him and pushing back on him. Yeah. But you developed this like pretty deep relationship. Like it was a mentorship that went on for many years. I mean, you became from what I gather. Like pretty, pretty close with him. Yes. 20 plus years now. But a lot of, I mean, you know, Holiness was much more active before now.

He's almost 90. So he can't give that much time. And I haven't seen him for a long time. But whatever mountain I'm on, even when I was on K2, I got a message that, you know, blessing was there. And every single mountain in life that I've climbed Holiness was behind it. So I have three more teachers that are in the Tibetan world. I've mentioned their names just in case I'm going to recognize it. So Dilgokhinser in Pursheh, who's a very prominent teacher, Tibetan teacher.

She was a lay practitioner. And I shared this because I think a lot of people put Tibetans as like, oh, only a monk can do this or a nun can do this. What the teachings of Buddha is for all humans. And the fact that lay people can do it with, you can be a rockster and you can still reach enlightenment. I'm not, I mean, that's not a, that's a weird trouble. But yeah, but I'm just saying that the techniques work for any human mind. Buddha was a scientist. He, you know, he was a

medicine man. He figured out the mind and taught 84,000 techniques for different kind of mindsets. Right. So we were talking about Dilgokhinser in Pursheh. And he was Dalai Lama's teacher. So right now, we have the next incarnation of Dilgokhinser in Pursheh who's slightly younger than me. But he shapeshifts between the previous and this one. But he, so why I mention him is when his holiness leaves this incarnation, Dilgokhinser in Pursheh alongside several other Lama's will be

holding the region because the teacher can identify the students. So the next recognition of the 15 Dalai Lama if he chooses to come back, which he will hopefully because you know, the next one is going to be very complicated because Chinese government, yeah, it's very, political, yeah. And Mongolia also is sort of involved in that discourse. I mean, it's God knows what kind of shit she was going to have. I know. So someone's going to have to hold it

down. So like this one, this amulet was made by the Dilgokhinser in Pursheh, which was by main protection for K2. But no, so just to say that there's even if I don't have a direct talking relationship with him being so far away, our minds are always connected. I know that when and he says that all the time because in the first few years, I got very clingy to my teachers, you know, not having any kind of family role models and then you get these like powerful

teachers. So they were the whole time track to send me away, you know, and this is one thing that as someone who's practiced or like during my college years, I was, I've tried out every single faith just to like from Baha is to Christian mysticism, to juric mystic Judaism and all everything. I just wanted to learn. And what really appealed to me is like there is no or at least how Tibetan Buddhist teach it is like ultimately you are your own guru. Yes, we have a teacher guru, meaning

teacher, teacher student, teacher student, oral tradition from Buddhist time. But ultimately you'd learn from us and then find your own guru. The power is within you. Pretty much Star Wars, which was based out of Tibetans. George Lucas actually went and spent six months in the Ram Sala and came up with Star Wars. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, Yoda is one of holiness's teacher. I'll send you the article. Oh, really? That's interesting. And you know, it's not surprising though. You

know the part in the Ewok village. Go na. If you hear it, it's rewind. How do you say like Tibetan stalking and he put it back in reverse. Yeah. Played backwards. Wow. So it's like it's encoded. Yeah. Everything that you see in Star Wars was taken from the Tibetan pantheon. The oracles. There's a whole living tradition of oracles in Tibetan diaspora. They're the what is the other one. And within the oracles, they're different kind of like there's a female. There's only three living

oracles right now. Back in Tibet's blooming time, there were so many flying oracles, all the types of oracles. Have you met the oracle in the oracle? The female one. I'm over you. That's a whole nother realm. There are shape shifters of all kinds. Maybe I did and I didn't know it. I own a bunch of spectacles and I made the grave error the other day of donning a normal non-roke affair on my indoor trainer when I was riding my bike indoors and I got to tell you it was a disaster.

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kicker. You can try whoop for a whole month on us. Start your journey towards a healthier you. Do it by going to join.woop.com slash roll and get started today. I appreciate this idea that we're not to deify the guru, right? Like it's about empowerment and a transmission of teachings and wisdom, but not for the sake of advancing the interest of the guru, but in empowering the individual to go on their own journey with what's been transmitted to that person.

Yeah, and that every individual have, we all have our own specific karma. I live in LA and often see bumper stickers that says karma is a bitch, but I feel like here people only talk about karma when it comes to negative stuff, but this too is karma, the positive, the negative, the neutral karma, the word means action and all actions start, like so we have body speech and mind action, things we do physically, things we say through our

speech and then things that arise in our mind. The most important is what arise because the first two depends on what arise in the mind and all of it from timing and memorials since our souls have existed is being recorded in kind of like a database like iCloud or Google plus whatever you use like infinite. There's no unlimited capacity, but the Tibetan word for mind, for example,

is not mind, it's mind continuum because the karma is every instant. I could be talking to you right now very pleasantly and have very negative thoughts about oh yeah, your t-shirt looks ugly or I'm creating negative karma even if I'm and it's moment to moment and it's constantly being recorded

and when we die our root mind which remains in our heart chakra, so the brain is the cognitive mind and the soul's mind which we call the root, a root mind is here and only that let's say it's like a chip that just like a light chip that passes away with that information and then whichever body we go to that's that's what's passed on. I don't know if it's karma or divine timing but there's

something interesting about the fact that you're here today right now. I mean even the timing of it is extra fascinating to me because I am right now in a moment of reflection and sort of deep inner work that was catalyzed by my experience visiting the Dalai Lama six weeks ago. Oh wow. And is also related to some of the inner work that you've done. So going to Darm Shala spending time with him having the opportunity to receive Darshan and his wisdom in a very structured

kind of environment. Arthur Brooks was hosting it and he had a series of questions and a sort of arc of experience he wanted to take our group on but as you know the Dalai Lama doesn't necessarily play ball with that like he's going to tell you what he wants to tell you or what he thinks that you

need to hear or are capable of hearing. And over the course of these two days pretty much without fail his response to almost every question that was asked of him was the same like it was the same answer which I'll track back to you know love and compassion of course but also this idea of the mother's love for the child. And I'm sure this is there's a version of that you know transmission

that you've probably received many times. And I'm curious about not only on a higher level like what you've learned from all the time that you've spent with him and what you've taken away from that but also how this relationship that you that you have with him has informed how you've navigated your own healing over the trauma of being abandoned by your mother. So when he says when you're challenged to feel love or connect with love or to receive love or to give love reflect upon

the mother's love for a child. I'm sure when you at least at that time we're in a position of reflecting on the mother's love for a child all that would produce for you is pain. And it did. Yeah. So it's like what am I supposed to do with that like that basically it's the opposite of what he's trying to tell you because you have this you have you have this experience that

is blocking you from from being able to kind of embrace that message. I remember his face when I snapped like he said something very similar like all women are mothers and mothers love because he has had a beautiful mother loving relationship. His his his thing with his mom is like intense right. So he he shared shared that with me and he said and this is before I actually told him that what happened to me and I was I could feel like because I'm I'm a Mars I'm ruled my ruling

planet is Mars my I'm fire. So it's very it was my biggest thing that I had to get rid of my anger like if you met me in my 20s and late 20s at least I was a different being I would I couldn't control the anger within me different version of anger all the whole spectrum. And then he was very shocked to hear after that and he just went you know is this Tibetans do this all the time to express disapproval and then was it that meeting no it was a different meeting when he said

but your real mother is mother nature no and at that time I had already gone back to Nepal to climb some like smaller mountains which are in Nepal 5,000 6,000 meter peaks which is also a blessing for me like I by default started in the human lives which is unusual for other mountaineers carry the end of the him the Himalayas after they put their time in with a lot of other mountains.

But by default I started there so I realized I went on my own that nature just being in this pilgrimage is because climbing because I learned from Tibetans and Sherpas it's a very different approach how we climb a mountain we never go without seeking permission from the mountains

but throughout those process of taking this long journeys in the mountains I was I could see that how I was healing it was it was really like a healing pilgrimage for me every single mountain and so I at one point he did instruct me to think of like good memories from both my parents and I really

struggled at that time to think of anything good positive with my mom now I can but at that time I couldn't see anything and then at that time he had with my father I had a lot of positive memories and I shared that and then so he was you know just encouraging me to reflect on that in

during analytical meditation and really give birth to gratitude because I this is a time when I forgot how to smile like I was dead inside and holiness has done so much things for me but one of the best things that he's done is made made me realize that I can laugh even in my hardest

doing my hardest struggles and this freed me up and I don't I can't technically explain how he did it but like the reason why I make fun of all my tragedies today with an open heart and it's because he showed it showed me the way anyway so over the months I you know I was going back and forth

usually it was because of work but he would ask on how I was doing with those kind of meditation and I kept telling him like nothing is coming up with my mom and then he just he just kneeled and polite he said but she carried you in your in her womb for nine months no and as he was saying

it I saw myself as a fetus like baby and so I went back and I would just try to it was tough at that time because my body was reacting but to really just even if so he told me to start it short times and then create a habit every day even if it's for a minute so I went step by step

thinking of myself as a baby in her womb thanking her for everything but it took years for me to really free from you know sending them gratitude for the life that brought me in whereas right before that before meeting Holly is like why did you bring me into this life when you couldn't take care of

me and so it was just again polar opposite perspective do you feel like you've healed that wound with my mom yeah I feel so she's still alive when I reached the summit of Chomu Lungma Everest at the age of 29 she was the first person I called to thank she didn't pick up it was 626 am to be fair but you know just because not taking away anything from what she's done I'm not saying it's okay what she's done and there's a lot more into it which the details of which will be in my memory but

I am so happy she did what she did because if she hadn't left it wouldn't have created the domino effect of series of events that I had to go through and not make me I don't think I would be who I am today because if she hadn't left exactly how she left yeah there is a perspective that she is

perhaps your greatest teacher yeah and developing gratitude and appreciation for that in light of everything that happened and this you know story that has you know led to so much pain and and and hurt right to be able to transcend that is a beautiful thing it's beautiful and I kind of

lived with that till I almost died in COVID and it reappeared and we can get into that later yeah we're gonna work up we're gonna work up to that meaning meaning it flared up and you realized there was still work you had to do around that no because she came back into my life for a different

reason and yeah it was a lot of a lot of things just came up things got messy yeah well when I came down Everest every both sides of my family were fighting on who to take credit and there's a specific point in Kumbu ice fall where I stood and I look back towards the summit and because my

satellite phone was beeping with all the news of what was happening in Bangladesh my stepmoment that time was in the front page of every newspaper so these people that that essentially abandoned you were suddenly showing up to take credit for everything that you had done yeah that's the

that's the comedy of the human condition had I known climbing one mountain would change so many things for me then I would have probably strategized climbing that mountain much earlier but no it's not just parents I had more relatives appear in my life that I had even known off

everyone came back into my life and we can talk about that later yeah what is the what is the essence of you know what you learn from your time with the Dalai Lama like if you could condense it down into a few pearls of wisdom that have been instructive informative for you oh my god this is so I could write a whole book in that on that but I would say transforming obstacles into opportunities lesson number one and the concepts of karma like once I you know by first teaching of karma started

in 20 at the age of 21 and throughout my entire 20s I would get a lot of this is like a very young mind to to comprehend such vast teachings right and a lot of the teachings that he gave me on karma in my 20s I only absorbed it after moving to LA in my late 30s and so because when you're next to

the teaching itself I not that I took it for granted but it was so much in a very short time it was so much that was passed on to me that I didn't really I wasn't fully able to digest it see it and well you have to you know sort of leave the metaphorical cave and go live your life

and exactly and and and when things come up that's when you have the opportunity to practice those ideas right otherwise it's just theory yeah if you stay in darmshalla yeah and immunize yourself from those kinds of that's why they send me to the hub of samsara that is last year you know you're

there right it's all going to get it's all it's all going to come come up right plenty of opportunity to practice I also it did resurface a lot of things because for once I was out of whether it's Bangladesh or the place that I got sick and I becoming a national figure in Bangladesh

life got really messy for me and I couldn't heal in that environment so for me to take this distance and also finding so many different practitioners or healers in this city like that was life changing for me so I know that even though I struggled the first few years of being here in terms of work

and finding my community and just like it's a huge city you know like it's hard to fit in here from a place like I always lived in small towns cut moon do you know the entire city I know by heart darmshalla it's even it's a little not even a small town it's what would you call it I don't know

you call it a village yeah I mean it's it's a tiny place yeah I'm used to that kind of place so that's why I live in Venice because I know the two mile by two mile route that kind of is fine and it is kind of its own thing yeah yeah but it's a bubble and I realize every time I leave

a la how how bougie and how pampered we are in this world this is so question for sure I mean there's no question about it when you're in darmshalla I mean if you go anywhere in India I mean it's so it's such a mind-fuck because it's like traveling to a different planet you know as

somebody who's lived in Los Angeles for a long time and you can't help but have a different perspective on you know just how how much we have and also how different our relationship is with spirituality and perhaps like what's most important because when you spend time with people

who have nothing and are more joyful than most of the people that you encounter in the western world you can't help that you know sort of begin to deconstruct like you know the priorities of life I was also like it was eye-opening for me to see how many people who I used to look up whether

they're aleisters or like big names they're really suffering man like people are really suffering in this town and I still don't understand why you have so much money everything basically everyone has so much resources here but still so I can be so unhappy

well it's uh you know they're trying to stuff the god-shaped hole with all of those things and the more you do it and and it doesn't it doesn't like deliver on that implicit promise the more suffering you're going to reap upon yourself right until you have a reckoning and you you know

decide that you're going to approach your life differently and you know it's that's that's a that's a that's an affliction of you know the western way of doing things and all of the messaging that you know we kind of absorb every single day as long as we can remember that tells us that

the path to happiness is built on this path of accumulation and you know power property and prestige and this is a town where there's a lot of people that have a lot of those things but what they're missing is any kind of you know relationship with faith and spirituality uh you know relationship

with the with with other human beings that they care about like all of these things that we that we know are integral to living a meaningful happy life but they become deprioritized for the sake of you know these other kind of goals um and you know that's what's producing all of the pain

and suffering I think for too many people and it's just writ large in this town because you know because of just the nature of the business here etc when you're in dorms shawla though you you you you're nestled up against the Himalayas you can see these snow cap mountains it's quite beautiful

but what you might not immediately understand or appreciate is that those are just the that's just the first range like these are teeny foothills like the real Himalayan peaks are like two ranges behind that that you can't even see and those mountains that you see from the village are like wow those

are huge mountains those are nothing compared to the mountains that you've climbed and and the culture just is you know you said like climbers and mountaineers have to work their way up to you know climbing the Himalayas but people in northern India they're just they're just out on those

mountains all the time so it's not surprising that you found it sort of natural to begin there and you know did it through like you know joining those people yeah every time in Nepal have you been in Nepal yet no I got to go I don't I've only been to India that one time wow well Nepal's next

because yeah all right that's a whole new level are like so much spirituality just in one place and it's buzzing I think you're gonna love it and also you need to go to Everest at some point I don't know if I need to do that there's too many people up there already we're going to see then when

that shit shows not happening I never take people out there anymore during spring season anyway but the when I was going to Nepal because Tibet in the second biggest largest refugee community is based in Nepal because that's another route to come in from Tibet all my colleagues that I was

working with happened to be just outdoors the mountain people so it literally was like hey like over the weekend you go for a pub or drink we didn't have that back then let's go to the mountain so it was just I was friends with Sherpa people Sherpa originally like Sherpa means

coming from the east implying east of Tibet so technically they're Tibetan origin that migrated over 15 than 16th century to this side of the mountain so Everest which is a British dude's name yeah yeah you mentioned the the Tibetan name for it can you say that again

to Chamulungma and that means the mother goddess of the universe it's a very feminine entity yeah that's a much better name yeah and the goddess is called Mio Lang Sangma and she's the goddess of inexhaustible giving only if you respect her and go abide by her tradition and there's I

forget how how many centuries ago this text was acquired but it's a text or the prayer that bows like humbles everything in her feet so we do this puja or ritual prayer ritual in base camp before approaching the mountain asking for her forgiveness first saying confessing that we're

about to step on you for a long period of time so we even bring in our crampons and i-sacks all kinds of objects that we're gonna take up ask for forgiveness beforehand for hurting her promising that we're never gonna leave trash or not hurt her in any way and there's a series of things and you know the chanting goes on for hours and hours and he just keep repeating and then the lama local lama looks for signs positive signs from her there are many ways to decipher it whether

it's a raven sitting on the flagpole or something things like that and only after those approvals come we have a celebration and that's a basic thing yeah yeah wow that's very cool and we did I mean that's passed down centuries yeah through the through the Sherpa lineage yeah no Sherpa will

approach any mountain without a puja even if the client is doesn't want to do it so in k2 which is in Pakistan in a very predominantly Muslim society we did there was there is no culture of doing this kind of puja but we still did it i did it i took in like i said i had two of my main teachers

like supporting the whole climb of k2 and we re so k2 again thanks to the british the dudes came in and it was like rename k1 k2 k3 k4 yeah so it's very creative what is what's the original name of k2 it's called chuguri king of all mountains so it's a masculine entity and god is he a masculine

entity is freaking like just brutal i the whole time i thought like there was a god sitting on the summit and saying oh you want to come to the top let me just throw you a rock and see if you can prove prove me anyway so we did a puja asking for forgiveness from chuguri and that puja was

attended by people from all faiths including local Muslim people that which are the Balti people in Pakistan all that to say is like so my i'm very grateful that my introduction to climbing was that before i came out into the world and went into you know all every other continent where i

climbed with westerners and other people but it's very hard for me to approach a mountain without the rituals like it's just we call it the approach how you approach a mountain because you know also we function in a very if i may say white says dude like predominantly it's all male and the

energy is very different yeah and and meanwhile none of the sherpas are appropriately sort of you know credited with just how extraordinary they are like we're in Hollywood they're sort of the sherpas are sort of the stuntman of the climbing world right like they do all these

incredible things and they're just sort of overlooked because they're in service to somebody else who gets all the credit but these guys are going up and down these mountains like all the time without noticing they're carrying the load they're overlooked of course i mean that the whole

history of mountaineering is like colonizers it was a very colonial approach we are going to conquer the british and the italy fighting different countries fighting to get to the top of mountains who's going to take credit the first successful ascend that happened it's called the

british expedition even though the person who climbed two person who climbed two people Tenzing Norge Napoli he had four times gone up to that level and that's why he was so important in the british expedition before Hillary and Hillary was Sir Edmund Hillary he was one of the

most kindest human beings you know i've never had the luck to meet him but every i know his i just actually returned from a trip recently with Peter Hillary his son we were guiding in Antarctica they're one of the most hummus families i know in the mountaineering tradition they've done

so much good for the region aside from him like there's and he's always given credit to Tenzing Norge but Tenzing Norge till his death didn't get credited his grants it's you know three generations have passed by it pretty much 70 years after his ascend there's finally a movie being

made about a person who's died and so that just shows how far behind we are in terms of giving these people credit but the other thing i wanted to say is like yes we don't give them credit but as an audience every spring season when we hear of if i may use the term Tom they can hurry climbing

up the mountain fucking ask who the fuck take took you up there what are their names don't just say 50 Sherpas went up it's like cattle you know Tenzing Sherpa went up sonam Sherpa went up give them credit it doesn't take away from it my friend you know between two brothers they have i think 56

total summits of Everest alone just one mountain Camerita Sherpa the younger one he did he just broke his own record of climbing the mountain 30 times wow no human in the world has done that imagine a white man doing that he would be such a big deal and he this guy does it it's like

oh well that's what nobody knows about nobody knows the person's name or anything but this is wild but this is whose fault is it who doesn't give the credit i mean i myself within national geographic has been fighting for this for almost 10 plus years now it only started changing from

2018 when they did when we did our first i don't know if you've seen national geographic magazine the one sorry for racist coverage we did one cover but that took a lot of work and then BLM happened and all this talk started happening it's the westerners who hasn't been crediting the

Sherpa people you know majority yeah i'm not saying all of them but so it's and as an audience now that the world is so open we can always ask who's the one who's led you up there who were who was carrying your oxygen who was your base camp manager the freaking base camp which is almost one

hour to one and a half hours of walking like it's almost like a little village that itself is on a moving chunk of glacier and i have footages that happen of you know what happens before clients go in it's built on the back of Sherpa people it's it's really hard work to make a freaking

base camp out of a moving glacier so that itself is made by Sherpa people so when westerners come in and say oh i did this climb unsupported hell no there's no fucking way you could if even if you spend half a day in base camp which is not usual it's way longer you've taken support

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to access the deal and check out some of my favorite peak design gear go to peakdesign.com slash ritual at p-e-a-k design dot com slash ritual greetings devotees of the ritual podcast universe it's me rain wilson and if you ponder what it means to be a human being with a body and a soul

give my new podcast soul boom a listen i sit down with big thinkers artists philosophers entertainers and more exploring the existential questions we all grapple with it's inspiring soul nourishing and we have a lot of laughs along the way so subscribe to soul boom on youtube or wherever you get your podcasts of all the mountains that you've climbed seven summits i mean i have to think that k-2 was the most challenging and difficult uh well all the mountains in life that have climbed the seven

summits happen when uh it was also a different time in my life i mean i was i started 12 to 2015 yeah uh well i finished so the first five of the seven including our worst i did back to back in one and a half years just like i was going like crazy till i got ended up with a frostbite in

danali and this finger which was cut up to here it literally grew back you can go to sit or sign and see my nail uh how the this case study it's a mere they call it a miracle case study anyway we can talk about the later your finger grew back yes like i have like i have like a lizard really i mean

it was cut off this this one grew back including like the nail the part with the nail and all of that so nail was chopped off i have pictures of in case you don't believe me so this is again you re-grue your finger no this is the best blessed by his holiness i've worn this since i have had that what is that an emerald an opal emerald an emerald yeah wow uh turquoise and uh what was the other one you just said uh opal opal yeah it's beautiful and that's on the finger that grew back yeah so that

so the finger grew back because it was it was super powered through the ring well also and and and the energy of the dolly llama and nine surgeries yeah okay yeah and cedar sion i the best of western medicine all cooperating to regrow finger but you know like when you get a frostbite

let's say if you get it in January there every chance that you could be amputated in August like you don't know how it's gonna develop so they so the first choice citizen a doctor gave me was like we can chop it off right now so that because it was already damaged up to here but it's gonna uh

and then he was giving me options of the different types of uh what do you call them like bionic different ways i could have a prosthetic finger and i looked at him and i said do you have like a Wolverine claw because i was i thought he was joking and he looked at me and said last year this

is really serious like you can damage rest of your hand if you if you don't measure it properly the other way is to live it out go through the pain it's gonna be intense pain but you we can you know because it was like microscopic level uh you know they had to do it in slices it's kind of like

the opposite of uh burn injury so they didn't want to chop off different parts like because some cells were damaged and somewhere anyway so all that to say that when that frostbite thing happened karma pa who uh i don't know if you know of him but he's another very prominent teacher uh

intubate and buddhism but he's very like it's not angry but he's when he talks it's very like it pierces through all your lives like you're just like uh so he just looked at me and he said you're doing it too fast uh and as he was saying it i realized wow you're right like i was

just going bang bang bang bang bang yeah without not not not really living through the journey and so the frostbite happened it basically stopped me for almost a year like because i couldn't the recovery was nine months so i couldn't go back to cold cold zone with that finger

but during that time i really you know and by this time my whole life had changed you know because after everything had changed and it was a national figure which brought in more harm than good being a single woman and you know doing what i'm doing in a country like bang this isn't you know

famous and the best thing for us um i'm not what do you mean specifically i mean you you become this national you go from you know somebody nobody's ever heard of to to literally becoming like your country's biggest national hero right yeah i mean that's that true or no well yeah i mean i from i

did akili kilimanjaro akong kago and then ever so that was the timeline akong kagoa which is the highest mountain of south america is also the highest mountain outside the Himalayan that got a lot of coverage because i somehow timed it on the victory day of bang ladish so the whole campaign

of climbing the seven summons was done to celebrate 40 years of bang ladish's women's progress and akong kago was in December and Everest started in march so when i started going foreverist there was a lot of publicity about it because it was Everest um but i also knew that nobody

believed in me like everyone wanted me to fail and there was a lot there was so much media pressure but i i really didn't want that i wanted to just have my own spiritual time and climb the mountain um a lot of other shit shows happen and then when i came down and there's a specific point in kumbo ice fall when the cell reception and the sat you know i was checking news so when you're coming down you got to be as quick as possible because this is all already monsoon season coming so everything

starting to melt so from you know the crevices that have ladders for example those ladders fall in so there are a lot of rerouting has to happen so you want to make sure that you have enough energy food everything to come down very fast so we came down summit around 26 may came down by 28

me and nima sharpa who was my brother it's passed away um and my climbing teacher and so we came down and in that cell reception the first 50 messages was like your so and so is on the front page claiming to be your mother you're so insulted like no and i remember looking at the new like

can you imagine coming down 29,029 feet hypoxic you're still you're hungry you just went through like avalanches and this whole three months long expedition and the first news is like your two sides of your family's fighting and i at that point i look back you can't really see the summit

what kind of tours the summit i look back and i was like should i just go back because i i don't want to deal with this right now and from that time when i came back to bengadish i mean in the VIP section there was my father's side was one side you know every there were two village like two

sorry there were two buses full of people that came from my village my so even though we live in the city we all come from some particular villages and my dad's village is one of the most conservative part of bengadish and these people have all like my pictures on their crown buses and drums and

just like before i was i was because i got into a lot of trouble as an activist and i was the i was bringing shame for my village a lot happened with the chinese government that's a whole nother story but so my village people actually didn't recognize me at that time there were a shame

because intelligence went into the village is looking for me knowledge intelligence and now the same people traveled all the way from my village to the capital in buses with food and they brought pyjeros to take me and like all everyone was there and you know in the pictures you see me smiling

because that's then i had to be waspia out there but internally that was probably one of the lowest moment in my life like externally i'm having to be waspia and asreen da da da da da but internally having my parents come back everyone who came back to my life yes it was great

but i also knew the reason was wrong i knew why they came back and so that kind of uh yeah i i didn't realize how big it was gonna like i didn't think it out um and also because i think it was a lot of people doubted me and it was kind of like a slap on their face like i told you i'm

gonna do it and i'm gonna do it and i did it because people in my land speak a lot they don't not everyone is a doer uh we generally talk a lot of shit yeah yeah and then do you find that is that um is that motivating for you when you hear that you you sort of think well i'll show them or

no i think my personality i'm a doer i am um i come from the karma family or i'm ruled by mars i don't know if you uh you're familiar with the Vedic astrology but my my wife is very familiar but you'll have to you'll have to fill in my yeah if you give me your bedtime i can figure

it out for you but it was very important for me to understand who what planet i'm ruled by which is basically it's called ascending lord or your lugna lord the so i am ruled by mars is the energy of pioneers athletes uh doers everything should have happened two days ago that kind

of energy but the fully embodied positive part of being ruled by mars is the commander in chief who doesn't fight himself they or themselves they sit back send off warriors to fight which i didn't know before i was the wounded i was functioning from a wounded warrior's stage and my progression has been to learn how to be a skillful warrior which i don't think i've been there yet but i'm learning and i'm getting there so i don't fight anymore i don't do my activism

anymore like i would i would have in my thirties or twenties in i think forty was a major turning point also of realization thanks to osanjles in other words this this wounded warrior uh incarnation of the the mars energy um in your case would be one that was fueled in part by this pain body over

the abandonment right like this this anger this latent anger that gets translated into action so that being um sort of an impetus to these challenges that have that have like served you well and you know given you this platform and um and all the good kind of things that have come from that but recognizing that they're still healing to be done so that you can ascend into a more of a commander in chief energy like that's a cool way of thinking about it. What do people misunderstand

about Everest? We all see the the photos of the train of people going up to the top now and how it's you know littered with with you know what people leave behind there yeah like i know that you i mean you like had to kind of walk past dead people right that you that you had spent time

with in base camp yeah um but it's easy to make presumptions or conjure an idea of what that experience is because so many people have done it and they talk about it and we see these these videos and these photographs but where where are our kind of assumptions about that

wrong i would say you don't need $180,000 to climb Everest first of all do not pay these western companies to take you for that much money or even locals they're local people and end of the day it's the local people who's doing the work so your might as well

better off going with a local company with Sherpas giving them credit and paying wheyless so when i did Everest for example i did it all like in a very small team i knew i was going to climb with Nima i hired everything separately because i already knew the cost structure of what

happens the permit is $13,000 that's the main chunk of money every single person going past base camp whether you make it to camp one or two has to pay $13,000 that goes straight to the pockets of politicians or locals but it doesn't go to the locals of the region it goes to Kathmandu so

Sherpas people are still not benefiting from that most foreign companies i would let's say even if the chart you're 180,000 or 20,000 or whatever number the maximum that would go to a Sherpa person which is pretty much their whole year's earning $6,000 maximum and these each of these Sherpas

mostly males have a number of children to feed and they're the main bread harners so i would just say structure it in a way i think everyone needs to yes there is the commercialisation of it but Sherpa people do need that money that's their living so i don't think we can change

we can you know at one point everyone's like just barricade ever is don't let any more people in no this is always going to be attracting people we cannot stop that this is the highest summit of the world but we can bring in regulation right but the stuff that you see out here in news i will

say that does happen but that's only a very small time on the mountain i can show you two hours of presentation of how remote and silent of this mountain is in different parts of the year so before i used when i used to guide for ever's base camp i've now moved everything to fall season like i

only take clients towards the end of the year there's not a one person on the trail it's so nice and pleasant weather is much better then how come that's not that's not in the media yeah because the weather season up on the top part top part of the mountain

may is really the perfect time fall season can be cold up there so a lot of no very few if anyone is climbing the mountain at that time it would be like the rough european strength right right right right like in a two percent so it's only in a very specific time window and

may when you see you know that like the the the traffic jam doing so if you notice everyone's summit days it's usually all like Edmund Hillary Tending nori Gessamit in May 29th ice summit at May 26th it's all towards that last week that people start summit in 1920 and you know with the

current the way things are planetary wise climate crisis wise the weather window is like the year that i submitted there are only three nights you could go to the summit whereas even like less than 10 years ago it was much wider window to go reach the summit and you know like the monsoon weather

that happens in lower region in Bangladesh and this in my talks i show this without the borders is like whatever is happening in bay of bingo that that kind of predicts how the wind is going to form above average during the summit season right it's all connected yeah the interconnectedness

of everything which is you know very Tibetan Zen Buddhist right yeah and the other thing that really fascinated me is like when you have the orbital perspective for off like being on the summit or just from space just looking at the Himalayan K2 which is a masculine entity and chogh

ever is which is a feminine energy they're kind of like the head and tail off this kind of backbone that's going all the way from Nepal to it's it's just so beautiful k2 isn't as high as ever as but technically much more difficult that was that was there's quite a story around your a cent of k2

yeah so we are currently filming making a feature talk about it which would give the more inner journey of k2 but geopolitically speaking k2 is in a very it's one of the most dangerous zones of the world dangerous i mean if you're climbing k2 nothing is nothing else can be dangerous

and i remember so it took me i was the first Bangladesh to get a permit to climb the mountain 50 years after Bangladesh was formed to so to get the permit so you need to at one is a trekking permit and an climbing permit and i needed to acquire two for k2 and also broad peak so i climbed

broad peak before climbing k2 which is another 8000 meter peak people underestimated but it's such a long mountain it's like it can so many people have died in broad peak i saw with my own eyes one guy just falling off like when he sat down just to rest and he couldn't hold and he just fell

on the Chinese side fell fell to his death right in front of you yeah i mean on k2 the shit i've seen i'm still waking up from it two years after that more than or yeah literally two years after so that's also another story like i have PTSD and stuff that i have been dealing with but k2 i've seen

so many dead bodies in my entire career actually have an album in my phone called ic dead people and so sorry it's of all that of oh my god so that's so heavy type of dead bodies i've seen on k2 is crazy it's like i'll broken because you know the body freezes overnight it becomes

super heavy super hard so it's very hard to first of all move it you need more than 8 to 12 people to carry a body but when the winds come and it's like tossing the body the first thing that happened it breaks the neck so there's a lot of headless bodies on these mountains

majority of them are headless because this is the most you know like tennis part of and they're just up there because there aren't 8 to 12 people to retrieve the bodies and so they just processed up there usually on average you need so Nepal climbing scene is much more logistically

advanced whereas compared to Pakistan Pakistan is almost like 50 years behind there's no logistical infrastructure to do anything out there but in Nepal usually your family has to come with the request no one's going to move anyone's dead body unless you ask for it so for example before

I went I left a will saying if I die in dead zone dead zone is 26,000 feet up where human bodies basically stop reproducing any cells you lose brain cells that are rate faster than it can be replaced so your body is basically eating yourself out so you spend as less time possible in

dead zone so that 26,000 to 29,000 feet is the hardest push given also that you've already been on the mountain for almost so many weeks already so your body is all dying so I left a will saying if my death happens in dead zone don't worry about bringing me back because I'm already a

probably left with the best view be I don't want to you know end-anger my shepherd brothers bringing my body from up there because it's one of the most risky as job to bring can you imagine holding a frozen body through a steep hill all the way from like why would I let anyone go through that

and the cost of it is super expensive but then I also knew that if I died below dead zone my brothers would come and get me so I mean Nepal's been in my spiritual home from so long ago so I had that in the back of my head but to answer your question the bodies aren't being brought back

because the families probably preferred them to be there how many dead bodies are up there then over 250 dead bodies so up there you're hypoxic you're so this is also part of the trainings like meditation and you know the mind-training part of it because I knew what I was going to face up

there but in that low oxygen level your mind is so fucked it's like you don't have energy or the capability to make rational decision so when you see a dead body even from the side of your eye automatically your mind starts this negative conversation am I going to be next of course

who I could be next or and just spiraling down and so to really bring myself out of the spiral and like saying okay do not focus over there sometimes it's just a hand like sometimes you'd be like oh is there trash and I have pictures of this like no it's a dead body of the back without the head

like it's this it's kind of like being on a shroom trip or you're seeing stuff and you really don't know what the hell that is and you look closely and it's like oh shit it is it it is what I think is in terms of of making sure your mindset is dialed in for those you know kind of super

acute situations how how important is or has been your your meditation practice like what is the relationship between meditation how you bring meditation into your daily life and how does that inform like your ability to you know kind of navigate such heightened experiences I always say

meditation or mind training stuff is 90% of the game because I've seen world class athletes I've seen Olympians go up there and even ever is camp three this woman I won't mention her name super famous athlete this avalanche happening in a different mountain and she fixed out saying oh

I left my daughter at home I'm like oh all this time you didn't know your daughter was at home no it's just Everest gives you and mountains like Everest gives you an excuse to give up every single moment so for your mind not to because ever nothing is going to go according to plan up there

you can prepare as much as you can and you know if there's a saying that as a mountain you have a backup plan of a backup plan of a backup plan but also going knowing that none of it may not work and you have to be adaptive next day if you wake up and see this and a lot of people can't deal with

that so yes of course physical training is needed of course the high altitude training is needed off all those is required but if you don't have the mindset to deal with it you're not going to make it you're not going to last out there and forget about K2 like just getting to base camp of K2 90

kilometers like most people get sick just going in and this is not with the T house law situation like Nepal this is all remote as part of the Kara Koram and if you have to define what that mindset is the mindset that is going to allow you to succeed in that environment what is that

number one positive just that and that there's a solution to everything no matter how things are turning out and that you know there are some days when people wake up and then the things that it's doomsday nothing like people give up but really patience is the biggest thing that you need

up there and wise decision making skills but you can't make those wise decisions unless you're in a calm newtrial state right so so much of it is about adaptability and you know being able to have some equanimity or neutrality amidst chaotic shapeshifting circumstances the other thing that really

it's not formal meditation but really helped me was having a connection to God is Chambunumma that started months before that through his Holiness Dalai Lama and he told me who she was and really whether you're in a dream state physical like waking state like having that connection with her

and she will welcome you if you reach out and you'll hear many Sherpa say this over and over they've had so many dreams about her the Kamibita Sherpa who was just talking about who was the highest record holder 30 climbs he quit his 26th I believe 26th or 27th push because he woke up with

the dream in camp 4 I believe where the goddess was telling her no you're overdoing it and she feedbacked off like that's how respectful Sherpa people are and I I also think it's important to stay here like in Western media especially in Western media in all media but especially out here

people just say oh these Sherpas like Sherpa has become and I have been called a Sherpa in my life will you be my Sherpa right it's a monolith but it's a derogatory term because not all Sherpas are climbers not all Sherpas are portors Sherpas are also doctors Sherpas are also engineers so

for the current generation so I know it's said in a good way positive way when like someone told me oh you want to be my Sherpa like oh you're someone who's going to guide me or help me that's how it's said but from their perspective or if you were a Sherpa person like a lot of my Sherpa friends

they don't want their children to be ever going back to the mountains they don't want to do that work and they don't want to be identified with that work anymore because they're they started as as portors right for the British and then the kid that did all the work it's hard work that never

never been recognized for so Sherpa is the ethnicity name but it's also the culture name so it gets all modeled up there are many other ethnic cities that are working in the mountains they're muggers they're gurus they're rise the media just portors everyone is Sherpa people and it's

important because in Nepal there's so many different ethnicities and unfortunately there's a class system there's kind of like a hierarchy and so Sherpa people don't like from their angle they're very proud people and so calling a rai a Sherpa or a different ethnicity a Sherpa it's kind of

insulting that's interesting I didn't know anything about that I mean I you know I suspect the use of the word there's no there's no intent to you know be using it in a negative way it's just a you know it's just a lack of education around that yeah but I won't mention people from

a certain country but there's specific group of people that also use that term not from Western world in Asia there's a one country that treats Sherpa people as like as if they're slaves like the term Sherpa means oh you're supposed to be helping me but so yeah this I have a great

article on it I can send you later but just really because there's the new generation of Sherpa people they're all in New York they're they're they want to be Uber drivers rather than being in the mountain they don't they don't look at that job as you know so what I'm trying to say the

many Sherpas that are just engineers or doctors are in so many different professions that are I guess from an angle looked more respectfully yet yeah understood with respect to your your K2 attempt the thing we haven't talked about is the fact that you had a really severe case of COVID prior to that

like not I mean not that long before you made the attempt right yeah so originally I meant to go in 2021 because I wanted to time it with 50 years of on this independence in 2020 March sorry end of February March-ish I was coming back from Hawaii after doing like 19 back-to-back talks

17 or 19 and it was very tired my immune system was down and I hopped into a flight back to LA and as I entered the plane I instantly knew that half of that plane was coming from Asian they were all affected and and then that was the night that was this in March of 2020 when

was this March of 2020 this was like before America officially closed everything wow and then hospitals didn't know what to do they didn't know anything about COVID but there was this one night when I believe it was Trump who called all Americans in Europe back to come back to the country

and that group had just come in and in LAX I was stuck in this group of people just back from Europe with the Italian virus I forget which version of it was like the first one the lethal one that was killing everyone in Italy so everyone was coughing and I think I was exposed to it for a

long time and so I got COVID I went flatline yeah your heart stopped actually it was that bad but I entered you know doctors or my friends everyone out here was freaking out but I had that was one of the most profoundly enlightening time for me when I went out I was you know a practice called

you're familiar with Tibetan book of the dead so we we study I'm have a long way to go still but we prepare for death from in part of our practice and if you study the Tibetan book of dead and a lot of the things that are there it didn't actually work out for me of what I thought it was going to be

a tunnel vision you know like the typical description of the but it was for me and a detailed version of it will be in my book but it was a profound kind of like a floating light and I it was I could feel it was me but there was no physical version of me and my teachers all four of my

main teachers were there and I could hear their voice and but I couldn't see them but I could feel them and it was just vast as the ocean and you know holiness was speaking Dalaman was speaking Dilgokin Srimin Pasha who's my root teacher he was there and this one line from my

another teacher Carmapa he said you have work to do still and I was so I was because I had suffered so much physically I think that light really was healing so I didn't want to come back but Carmapa I think me was it Dilgokin Srimin Pasha said something from the side no as via a very gentle way he was trying to bring me back but then Carmapa was very like sharp and just says things that just jabs you in the heart and he said that and I that's when I woke up you snap back

into the body so you you literally flatlined yes and then how long were you flat? it's not finished then I got diagnosed with pneumonia and my heart wasn't like it was they didn't even tell me that I had pneumonia because my Chinese doctor who I was who I had prescribed his she's an herbalist

she was coming to see me and she said if we told you that your heart was really struggling like with everyone dying in the hospital like people were dying at this time they didn't know what the hell to do said we I don't think you would you had so much and I think I was like I had

a lot of anxiety at that time I was all alone like how all my relatives everyone was at home and um and and lockdowns were happening at this point and then they won't keep me in the hospital so far away from home yeah and also people treated me like I was I could kill them

because they didn't know what what what the hell was going on they didn't know at that time that if you come you know you like even getting grocery or anything right this is when we were spraying our our our produce and all that kind of stuff right yeah early early days yeah so long story

sure it was a huge recovery 18 months recovery but my left side hold on so you're jumping ahead so you flatlined do you know how long you flatlined for uh no but it it should be there several seconds I think uh huh but for me it was a long time in right your your experience of it was

different from like the actual amount of time yeah uh but it wasn't like they pronounced you dead or anything like that but like did they were they did they have to like put the no they the doctor had that ready what do you call them the paddles they had it ready they were about to zap and I

I was so disappointed seeing like I was just hanging out with my teachers I had seen for a long time and then I'm out into this reality I was disappointed to be alive again to be very frank and so what do you make of that experience I don't know yet but uh that experience didn't stop there it

prolonged into an 18 months long recovery where my entire left side was you had bells palsy yes but also my kidney was stopped not functioning well my spleen had gone like entire left side was dysfunctional I couldn't walk to the kitchen by myself everything was really hard and

that was my physical injury but that period of 18 months was probably the most inner work so the left side is related to mommy wounding or not necessarily wounding with mommy sides so it's all kind of it's all it's all it's all spilling out yeah and you thought you thought you would heal

I thought I was healed so this is like a a reckoning but also at that time I was still in contact with her and so it was aggravating me a lot every time he she checked in and so that is that is the time when I cut her off from my life 2020 when I was healing and I was so this is a time when a lot of

you know from 2020 onwards to now I've somehow gotten connected to a lot of shamans and healers around LA and now I know why my teachers send me and because I was I really struggled in LA and I was always like every time I would talk to my teachers like it's my car over now can I go back

like and can I leave and I haven't I done haven't I done enough like we're done with this right so from that perspective there is a there is a you know this idea or this perspective that you know COVID is this gift this very challenging gift that's been delivered to you and this very long

recovery as a way of slowing you down like to your point earlier about you know being impressed with the idea of patience right patience is something you resist so you you can track this virus you have a very difficult time for a long time but this is forcing you to stop right so that you

can actually confront this thing and finally heal it yeah so I think healing has to be like it's not like we reach a summit in this remain there it has to be step by step and up to that point whatever healing work I had done especially concerning my mom was from the time that she had left

me to then whereas I never addressed the little girl that yeah that was there when she existed and was still in our lives so and I that moment and or the period made me realize how entire like since 29 to now or then I was overcompensating not just for my parents

in every work that I did because I was still functioning from a wounded wounded state so the hyper performance like that yeah all of that is like a product of this unhealed wound yeah the short version of why I go went to how I went to the top of all mount this is on resolve

childhood trauma which is true though right which is majority of people with in on top of their game yeah but so that period made me and I was finally ready to like just heal like I'm just done you know and so I'd really use that time to deep dive into every work that I could have done and

like my teacher root teacher said that you know you've cleared to almost 20 years of karma in that one year 2020 and had I not like before I moved so I moved to a lay permanently right before pandemic end of 2019 not knowing that the pandemic was going to hit before moving here I was almost

for years I was just t t t t t t t t t every continent like I was performing performing performing achieving achieving achieving but running away running away the whole time kind of not necessarily running away I think the environment in Bangladesh being the figure I was I couldn't really do the work you cannot do the work where you you can't heal in the place that you got sick yeah so I think it was it all it was all meant to happen I was sent

here so I could heal properly I could create the community or find the community of healers and practitioners who would help me you know so it's been I mean I'm so still healing like I don't think we are like I said we don't reach a summit and just exist there what are what are some of the modalities that have been most helpful well somatic therapy I did I went to therapy since I was a you know late teenager but and talk therapy does help but I had a lot of stored trauma in my body from 2020

with this physical illness and all the work that I did like that my body is so light now like I can't tell you rich like in 2020 up to 2021 I was carrying so much baggage in my body my everything cleared up like I look younger now than I looked in my late 20s because because I just let that out

and you know there are many ways I've done it and it's a bit esthetary I mean very esoteric so I went to all kinds of practitioners but the other cool part of it is like when I because I couldn't go back to Nepal at that time no traveling was happening but when I ended up going to Nepal in 2022

I hadn't even discussed anything with my Tibetan teacher the Gokensi Yang's here in Peshir but he when he saw me he told me the version he saw and it just it was literally like he washed me throughout the whole thing he knew everything that I was going through and he was doing his prayers for me it's his crazy from the time that I entered the dream state or not dream state dead state and came back like this was all just divinely orchestrated and he knew how it was going to unfold the whole time

no I mean he they were worried as hell like there was no guarantee of even the medical system here like it took me like I had to figure all of it out Bangladesh has better medical system than America I have to tell you like if I was in Bangladesh I would get VVIP treatment and just the way insurance

and shit works here it's it's crazy anyway whether that's a whole nother topic but um what's it going to say so then 2022 summer is when I ended up climbing did you have I mean during that 18 months when you're trying to physically heal you have kidney issues

um a variety of issues you have the the bells palsy all of these things that you're trying to heal was there was there lung damage also yeah lung was the main my left lung was main and I didn't feel it till camp 2 in k2 it hurt like hell but they're still great uh yeah I mean you have to have

unbelievable lungs to do something like that and go in impaired you know it's still trying to you know that's that's like wild man you know the stitches that you trying to breathe in but what happened was in k2 I they were bolder size like humongous rocks

that were falling and just knocking people out like while you're hanging and mind you I'm also filming at this time with another guy like being much sharper in myself we film our entire like two people camera team if climbing k2 wasn't hard enough like filming the entire journey was

a much harder task but I had this rock fall coming and that's when I had a second or an episode of major panic attack and just PTSD rush after a long time and I thought I had dealt with it uh and you know first when you experience that it's like guilt and just anger or for me it was

like why the fuck is this coming up again and in high altitudes very hard to you know your mind the air energy within you it's very hard to control that so I had to actually go back down to base camp and just like sit with myself and have a talk and just just come back again I feel like

now and then the last episode was in this march in Antarctica another incident happened that resurface some things like just I didn't know till coming to LA and going to somatic therapy that I was living with survivors guilt for a long time even though I've I've not killed them personally but

I survived just the people that you survived on these on my best friend died on I mean I've lost really like close people on the mountains and I somehow survived and in 2015 in the earthquake that gave you know the biggest avalanche that took my best friend Dan my biggest climbing partner

brother of life and you know just visuals from the bodies and everything Nima was Nima who was my climbing partner died in a motorbike accident like all these deaths happened and people just left and coming from that place of losing so many people already in our life in my life yeah but what I

was going to say in Antarctica I feel like because it's in Iraq have you been to America now everything is slow like air time stops there is no concept of time or space uh so things are already happening slow moment in your mind or at least for me was but I think this time

because of the work I have done in the last three years specifically I was able to bounce back way faster half of my mind could you know I get paranoid and anxiety kind of feeling in half of my mind and half of my mind is like no you've done this before like there was this courage is aspect

where like no just breathe in do this do that so I was able to process the whole thing was actually talking to Conrad about it because we have similar you know incidents about losing people and stuff and it's just it's we're never gonna he like be at a place where never comes back

it's just how we manage it and how we deal with it on a daily basis your your commitment to the ceiling journey that was really inspiring to me it is it is it is and you know as I said earlier I'm kind of processing this experience that I had in Durham Shala

and I'm very confronted by this idea of the mother's love for the child because I have a very tricky and challenging relationship with my own mother which which is you know trifling in comparison to like what you've had to contend with but it's been an impediment to me kind of embracing

what the Dalai Lama had to share like it's a block right and that block obviously is exactly what I need to be seeing because that's where the work sits right I'm just gonna see that's that's probably why he said it right and this is a thing this has been a thing like you know

for many many years like I know that I have to heal this thing right but I've I've lacked like the proper way to approach it like I don't I don't really like there are many times where I thought that I had kind of transcended this issue clearly I have not it's that same thing when you think

that you've kind of managed it and then it comes up again and this is like my mountain to climb right and I'm trying to figure out how to do it and then here you arrive who who you know has had this exact same experience except super heightened in comparison to mine and I'm like oh my god this

woman is gonna give me all the answers that I need to figure this out for myself it's like unbelievable well and it all and it and it like I can't help but think like this is part of some kind of design that that exists outside of myself like there's a there's a divinity and a mysticism to it that's

quite extraordinary and when I think about all the things that you've done you didn't sit down and say here are my life goals and I'm gonna write it out and here's how it's gonna happen like no this has been this unbelievable fantastic mystical journey that you've been on that is deeply spiritual

and patient zero is like the Dalai Lama who says go to the mountains and like you go and then look at all these things that have happened it's really quite extraordinary thank you I as you were talking I just I wonder if there's a lot of it stored in your body which I know it is so much of it is

but when those blocks you what helped me in my journey is removing those blocks because when those blocks are still in your body our nervous system cannot function properly 100% so there's no point forcing yourself to release it before you somatic therapy change my entire life thank you LA

because I didn't do you're familiar with that term no but you're gonna tell me who I'm gonna go to okay and you're gonna be I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna say you're gonna be my Sherpa I know I now know better he used that word right but maybe you can be my my my guru or my teacher here

no I missed you healing healings is healing your sister in your healing journey yeah all right in some way I'll I'll go with that but you're gonna you're gonna help me out right by can but I can assure you that what he said to you was meant for you yes I know right

and I'm like sitting with it and I'm like what am I supposed to do with this you know I know I'm supposed to do something no I think you know I think when when and I was talking to my wife about this like right after the experience like when he's like well you know in order to like

experience love and give love you have to just you know embody the mother's love for the child and when I think about when I when I reflect on you know my own mother I don't experience compassion I experience resentment and and and and and misplaced anger and all of these

complicated like emotions that that obviously are impediments to the solution which is love right and so how do I break down those impediments how do I like how do I deconstruct that wall and find a way forward like this is really like this is like the biggest thing that I'm trying to do

right now and then suddenly you appear that's really interesting because it's very similar like when I was telling you that he was telling me to do this and in my mind I was like yeah just like that but over time the more I sat with the one-minute practice of imagining myself in her womb

and what she was going through and the trauma she came from the generational trauma she till today carries reflecting on that being her not as was here not as rich take your mom embody your mom at where she was do you know much about your past history like your grandfather's and a little

bit but I could learn more yeah so that really helped me generate compassion towards her and ultimately get really forgive her like I really from the bottom of my heart want her to leave very peacefully like I don't want any kind of suffering and I know I mean that and but I wasn't I never felt like

that even 10 years ago and how do you feel you said you feel lighter like what is what is the feeling that you have like I always really there was a lot of chronic pain and I would get injuries all the time and I think I've cut that pattern I released the all this stored trauma and like I think it was TR who said how the fuck did you TR is our he's the guy yeah yeah yeah my trainer he's like how the fuck did you climb all this mountain with all this trauma in your body your leg is separated from

like this thing he only fixed after K2 which is post 2022 this is last year mainly but um so yeah just energetically just so much lighter like it almost feels like I've lost 50 kilos like from my like this backpack I was carrying it's just out and and more free just mine was very free just

I'm I'm under no captivity yeah and maybe you can draw yourself a map on what that freedom might feel like and have a goal like oh I'm doing this because this is what's gonna give me or I'll do it freedom yeah I like that I will also say that doing that work towards my mom like when I um

not this mom parents anyone who's hurt you like when I started you know step by step doing that work it changed my entire pattern of people that I used to attract to because when we still have that mother wounding and operating from that mother wounding and father wounding so I'll just give

an example I had a lot of narcissists people around me therefore with the wrong agenda starting from my previous trainer to like only friends because they could gain something from me because that's what my mom was so it's attracting all these people because somehow I was probably also

codependently you know trying to recreate friendships like there were all versions of my mom right you're seeking validation and acceptance in people you perhaps look up to right to to sell that wound but I would also imagine I wouldn't be surprised if also those abandonment issues

show up in any kind of attempt at a romantic relationship where you're gonna push people away before they can push you away what anytime it feels like perhaps the relationship is teetering you're gonna be the one to break up to protect yourself fight or flight yeah right is that right yeah

I mean I dated my mother for I think 15 years uh-huh all in all seven continents literally a version of my mom till I started doing work uh-huh yeah yeah I mean not like I said like my work work people trainers people around me so many of them were versions and then the people who would actually be the right mutually benefiting relation those people started pouring in from yeah and it's actually you have to heal yourself you have to be the person that those types of people would be attracted to

before those people come into your life and then also every now and then the universe is gonna send you a version of her again to see to test you yeah how's that going it how I was like oh yeah now I know my boundaries now uh no I laugh at now when I see over it is like two years even two

years ago it fall for this shit uh but now I know better I love how uh you frame your climbing in the context of of humility like people like to say you conquered a mountain and you're always quick to say like nobody conquers a mountain like it's a surrender you surrender to the mountain

what are what are some of the lessons that you know we can learn from your experiences on you know being on such you know incredible peaks yeah from the very beginning I found that word and even now media says waspia conquered this I hate I just my whole body's like why do you still use it because

the view before the summit is like everyone's begging the mother to go up for even a split second even it's like once again please give us give us one moment on the summit as soon as you come down you're like no I fucking conquer like the ego steps in and some of our mountaineers egos are

bigger than the mountains they climb themselves so I feel like not just with mountains with any part of nature like even with the environment climate crisis uh especially in America I hear often save mother earth like oh please like mother earth can just toss you out in a fraction of

a second I've seen it over and over I've seen earthquakes avalanches anything and everything that you knew could be gone in a fraction of a second if a tsunami comes so we know we need to be healing ourselves we need to be saving ourselves and mother nature will heal herself by itself

so like so having this ego state of higher ego state over the mother mmm hmm I feel is really wrong and another practice is I think when the internal elements within us are balanced and when we are calm and this is a very Buddhist practice as well the external

elements settle on its own when so many of us humans are functioning in anger jealousy all this negative greed whatever you want to call it that creates a lot of these outer dimensions it the microcosm yeah produces the macrocosm exactly I've read that you said uh you know

mental health is planetary health like there is an excess between like how we treat ourselves and and you know the outer manifestations of our interior world is what's creating what we see around us that needs to get fixed yeah absolutely which is also a very Buddhist thing right like the way you

the way you save the world as you save yourself or if you want to fix the world fix yourself if we all focus on mental health and our own health I think half of the world's would world's problems would be gone like we don't have to do anything if we were in full control of our

mind and our bodies it's empowering to hear that I truly believe that but mental health right now is not we're not doing well with that are we collectively knowing in the West well in the East it's a shame to talk like what mental health like I think in West is ahead a little bit

a laze for sure but yeah that's that's my focus too I was just thinking coming up here my podcast is going to be called climbing in around this yeah well that's what we've been doing today yeah but it's like nothing impresses me like your world like whether you've gone to space or whatever

if internally you haven't done the work or yeah what is your relationship with gratitude look like oh every moment every day it's not honestly like this past couple of months have been hard not even the last year like to really go back to a state of gratitude but I think

like again going back to karma like there's positive karma neutral karma negative karma and when we don't have gratitude it often goes automatically to negative because where we are not appreciating what what like this the fact that we can sit with food three types of drinks on

with such a nice environment talking to you this means already that both of us and those people associated with us have done a lot of good work in the past good merits for us to come sit in a time like this when so many people in the wars are in rest of the world are suffering that we can

have this positive experience rejoice we use that word specifically and rejoice automatically when you look at other people's good things good achievements and rejoice on it especially on things that you don't have that's what multiplies your positive karma and enough people don't reflect on

that that there's a way around multiplying your positive and you know putting the negative like subdoing the negative karma I think we should do a course in that but yeah no I'm interested in the formal practice of cultivating it when you when you notice like you're not experiencing it

like is there something that you do or like every morning to 6 a.m. I have a two hour period two hours before heading to the gym walk me walk me through that before he go to the gym wow well now he has made the time 545 so I have to be at goals at 545

be where oh at the gym okay so you get up at what time usually I'm on the mat by 4 a.m. yeah I haven't been sleeping properly I must say but 4 a.m. and that's you know that's practice has been going from Tharam salad days so the first part I mean it's not same every day but usually

it's the several texts that we study and it's different every every like right now I'm finishing certain practices so it's the more the mantra chanting so clearing your speech so the you know we have so many mantras that we do but and I'm not the most highest expert to explain mantras but

I would say that it really refines your inner karmas and it really helps me and we all have different body types so what speech practices are going to do for me might not do the same for you if that makes sense so then after that I have sitting meditation which is which is both analytical

and just like we call it inside meditation I guess here which is Vipassana and then sometimes visuals like so let's say I'll just give a stupid example if I'm working on a certain project really planning it out visually and how morally

ethically rightfully I would do but also projected visually and then you know people who are not familiar with Tibetan practice might get confused with it but like the deity practices we do I'll just say like it's almost like having those deities are avatars so these are the deity

practices are more in which is called the tantric practices and it's hard to explain over a podcast but the specific deity that I'm practicing with is ultimately the avatar within me it's the energy quality so I'm trying to develop that within myself and at the end of the practice the

deity marches into my my heart chakra which is my where my mind lives and we become one and then yeah and then closing ceremony and then wow and are you doing this with the council of a of a teacher that we're growing everything has been passed on so I have four main teachers

both the Dalai Lama and Karma Par so busy now so Karma was often considered as the second most important Lama after Dal Lama but I don't think you can hierarchy put it like that this is again the western media description of it Karma Par is the second Lama in Tibet which is not true

often they portray him like that but karma Par is his father karma is action so father of all action so he comes from the action family we have five different families I am of the action like do do do yeah so so this makes him the perfect teacher for you yeah so he was my I found him second

after Dalai Lama but he's the nor of all times like he literally saved me from earthquake saved me from gun violence saved me yeah who's the one who who who talked you off getting on a plane right yeah so he's the he's clairvoyant like and that you were going to Katmandu and that's when the

that's when the earthquake was right to me then what's that to me then who passed who was the first dead body to call it wow my last text to you and said don't get on the plane karma but it yeah yeah he knew I didn't even tell him he didn't he didn't know that you were about to get on a plane he

just said come come come back no I was fighting with him he said don't go and I said why I have like I was very stubborn still I'm shocking but I was fighting I was like I'm not gonna miss my fly but also a number of so karma and they'll go consider and push it they're both kind of similar

age so I kind of have a very friendly best friend version of it like not a lot of people would fight with these high llamas but I always argue and they kind of love it because debate is part of the Tibetan culture I think you who went and visited arts saw some we have a lot of time with

with some of the monks who I just love I loved hanging out with those guys so even diorama he would always say come and come and challenge me question me yeah there's part of my teaching that you don't he told me personally there's anything in the text or teachings that I give don't just

believe because I'm the Dalai Lama question the Dalai Lama you must question the Dalai Lama and if it's not working for you don't practice it like he would yeah yeah that is part of it I remember this debate is debate it was funny it was Arthur Brooks and all these social scientists you know

and then you have like the llamas the llamas on the other side we're kind of laughing the whole time like you guys are so up your ass in your head you know like it was very entertaining actually go ahead sorry no I was gonna go into my teachers we were talking about we were we were talking well

we were talking about how he talked you off the plane and that you have this jocular relationship with them where you you know you can debate and argue and then he hung up when I was like no and then and then he the text I got is come see me and then I texted Dan say you were where at this

time almost near the airport so I have the darm shala no no no in Bangladesh Dhaka so Dhaka took at least less than an hour flight it's like it takes longer to get to my home in traffic then get to Nepal it's literally like if India allowed us that 30 minutes of road on overland it would just

be a small car car short car right so I go back and I forgot where he was and I call his assistant and he's like oh yeah come to New York I said wait what he's in New York I'm gonna fly to New York to beat him and next day I got a Qatar flight woke up in Qatar like it was a layover when my phone

started Qatar Dubai somewhere in in those two hubs and then my phone started beeping with messages of the earthquake and but I had a flight to catch and when by the time I landed and saw him he was already in meditation so when when the earthquake happened both the lama and kamapa

went into deep meditation and you know they don't say it but they tried to take on as much of the suffering that they can and so I think it took us three days to took me three days to see him and by that time you're just hanging out in New York waiting for him to be done meditating

no I knew by that time I was kind of just because I had already gotten dance news and I knew but then when he when I saw him I didn't know like I was angry but I was also I guess fighting with guilt because I was recreating the whole scene of if I was there I could have maybe saved him

he died basically in base camp doing nothing you know he wasn't even climbing and so I was replaying it which is again a version of survivor's guilt because it was his big sister and though he was older than me I was like we will always wash each other out on the mountain so yeah it was just

I and then I had so I saw him and then I went back to Nepal from America and I ended up staying there and there were 360 plus after after shocks after that so it was a very tragic time but one of the most powerful time in my life where we spent almost a year rebuilding we all from poor from poor to

rich to all walks of life people and only Nepal this could happen coming out living under tents holding each other random strangers just out in the street while the aftershocks are happening like everyone watching out for everyone the amount of community collective work that happened post

earthquake and I've been in other earthquakes I feel like in Bangladesh people wouldn't have behaved like that so just like seeing people who just lost everything still like going and recovering or you know just doing what it was necessary at that time was very powerful do the mountains still

have the pull in the lower like do you feel like you still have some things you want to do there or do you feel like you've learned what you needed to learn from those experiences I think I tell my last breath I would want to return to the Himalayas there's this longing of like

this is the longest time I've been away from Himalays my ashes are supposed to go to the Himalays so I have a connection there that it's more like it's almost like therapy every like annual therapy kind of a pilgrimage like if I'm not in touch with the rocks and the the vibration that you feel

what is it that's so unique about the Himalayas it makes them different from other mountains irrespective of like how high they are they're just so alive they're like living being so there's this territory within so Everest and all these mountains there's it's almost like curves out in

the Nepal side like almost like an embrace like a mother and when you put a camp in there and sleep on the ground let's say based camunglacia if you're I'm not talking about this crazy people who are just like doing stuff but if you're in tune with your body you you within three days you'll be

attuned with the mother and I there's a chapter in my book called avalanche lala bhai and it was about an episode in my life where post ever as I couldn't sleep anywhere like in Bangladesh I had insomnia I never struggled so much with sleep I would be up all night till I went back to base camp

the next season and you know officially speaking you're not allowed to stay in base camp without a permit but I have enough sherpa friends where I just put up it wasn't sneaker was I mean all the official people knew that I was coming so but I stayed there just to sleep and while you're lying

down whether it's morning or evening it just goes from it's like a whole layer in the embrace there's so many big mountains just avalanches happening and that was so calming for me because I slept with that sound for so long like that became mad lala bhai and it's only in that lala bhai

that I could fall back into sleep you can't fall asleep unless you're listening to avalanches but it was so sweet it's not like the wrathful even though they were wrathful they could take it the whole village but that sound was so pleasing and so I felt so protected in her embrace I would

say and also the lot happened while I was climbing ever is like my entire camp three which is on the lots of face went off with an avalanche and right before summit push so I had to recreate so if people aren't familiar with how the climb goes you basically don't climb the mountain all

at one go you acclimatize you go from camp one camp two carry I'm talking about people who are actually carrying their shit and then you go back carry more stuff but this is a that's why it takes so long to climb these mountains and so by the time we reached camp three it was almost

summit push time and summit push time is a window we'd never know when that's gonna come too much later in April and then we do several you know satellite so we there are two main satellite readings that you can do very costly one is Swiss one American so I bought the American one

someone else bought Swiss one and then we exchanged and anyway long story short I saw that there was one window on 26 the second window on 27th was a no go and 25th could be a window and if I if I can touch based on camp three so me and Nima we were already up there we had our supplementary

oxygen that we were gonna carry to camp four and then go for the summit push food was there and it took weeks you know to it took weeks to bring them up and then Nima just came in to the tendons like did he did he mean sister older sister we're not sleepy we're not going up tonight so do you

want to just go to camp two and sleep there because the idea is as much as you can you sleep at lower-arms like there's no point losing here stuff and I just shrugged and I don't know what I just said yes let's go as we we were wrapping down camp three two camp two we heard this

from the top and I thought it was an avalanche and it was an avalanche but it happened on another side of the mountain that made us humongous like building size Sarac and we're watching it come straight took my camp took the next camp two sherpas where it had to be airlifted out with their

backbone injury and so my entire camp how long after you had left camp three we were still the rope coming down and then next day Nima and I when we go back to the place because we were like okay if we could have say one oxygen cylinder something nothing was there and then a cracked

amulet the one his holiness had given me forever is that was just there with a crack and broken everything else has gone except this amulet the there's some like little stuff left but the main stuff like food oxygen everything was taken so I took those broken pieces and later gave it to

the like this happened and that happened and then he just looked at me and he was like time for a new one he went back and gave another one I keep asking this question but like what so what do you make of that like what what is this what does this mean to you the way this series of events unfolded

well I think that was Chomolungman's way of because the first night that people started going up it was a total shit show I would have died in that line there were over 250 attempting I didn't make that a crowd a lot of people died in that crowd by the time I reached the night of me reaching

the summit I crossed over seven dead bodies out of which there were people from that same season who I had tea with and those people died in the just just previous summit window so that was the time when I was like okay I was looking at them but also I must say when I went back to camp two

automatically it was very depressing like I still didn't know if I would make it I had to go back to base camp my supplies came on a helicopter from Kathmandu and we me and Nima had to re-carry back can you imagine the energy lost the mental thing but as soon as I reached back to camp two and

settled my mind I'm gonna go I felt like someone like a mother a goddess fearless energy was like you're gonna come up and was just pulling me we reached dead zone camp which so dead zone starts above 26,000 feet so camp three above technically speaking is dead zone you spend as less time there

and you have basically no appetite in dead zone I went into camp four I was so hungry after eating my food that I ended up eating Nima the next camp next tense all the Sherpas left over food and all everyone was like did he what happened to you like I had this new found energy that I couldn't

explain and then throughout the night of climbing I felt like someone was pulling me like just this big energy and it was as cliche does it kind of sound that climb itself was probably one of the most profound spiritual experience for me and I'm so happy that it happened because if I was in that

chit-chaline before I wouldn't be having this experience and the other thing that happened Nima but hold on a second so profound how and why because I was constantly like I knew mother was there she was protecting me she was pulling me and then my entire life at that time I was only 29 but

my entire life flashed through the last couple of hours of reaching the summit and everything from very life altering moments to insignificant memories like random people crossing in Heathrow Airport or like just but it was happening at with a rate faster than the speed of

light like everyone just passing passing but the overriding feeling throughout that was of gratitude like I was so I was like bursting with gratitude I was like wow and you know there was this last ridge line before the summit so I visited I studied the mountain obviously like the maps so I had

I knew of what was there but you're at nighttime climbing it you know you have no concept of high how high you are high low you are you're just going up up up and then all of a sudden from my right side from literally below me you know how sometimes you fly in the plane and you can see the curvature

of the earth so just like that the curvature of the earth and the sun started coming up and I looked down and I was like holy shit like how high I was and and I knew that was Tibet so the mountain summit literally goes on the border of Tibet and Nepal so on that on the summit that

side is Tibet and the side is Nepal so I was even joking like you know with Neemais like oh if you fall like in this place we have two places to die two countries to die and we have a choice if you fall on the right you fall into Tibet if you fall on the left you die in Nepal and Neemais

like yeah don't fall on the right did they we can't get your body out from China so we were just joking non-stop about that and then we finally reached the summit at the time when sun was literally sun rise was happening and I got to watch that from top of the world with Neemais alone there was no

bloody single person but I must say here Neemais if it wasn't for Neemais he he was one of the very few there were at that time this is 2020 2012 he was one of the 18 Sherpa people to have learned English and he was person the international guiding certifications it was very skilled and ahead

so he he climbs like an angel like without rope or anything oxygen and he had seen what could have happened on the balcony and other places so he brought extra rope with him which is abnormal because the ropes are already set up so when we hit a traffic point he detoured me through a rope

and we basically bypassed the traffic and that's how I could and I was fast and I was so surprised like how is this happening it's the mother you know that she's the goddess of inexhaustible giving and then I bawled my eyes out on the summit just like and Neemais was like trying to it is like

your cornea is gonna freeze like just don't cry and I read now but it was just overwhelmingly I don't think I felt gratitude in that way ever before you were being looked after and you were being looked after by the great mother who was expressing love for you

when you needed it most and then I did a naughty thing after that what you do so I was banned from Tibet in 2007 five years before the climb and it was because of a book that I was carrying it was a meditation book called Art of Happiness with a very smiley picture of

Dalai Lama and I got caught. I'll do it. So the officer he ripped it looking at me like this and then he threw the cover like this on my face and this is I mean yeah it's a but it but meditation book but it's a it's a spiritual scripture for me so I found it I mean

that he just literally ripped the cover with my teacher on it and threw it and threw my passport through the rest of the book and the last line he said was you can never step into Tibet again and I was so pissed with that line so I carried that cover to the summit just as a backup knowing

that the border of Tibet lied over there and I after watching sunrise on top of the world I was like Nima are you ready do you feel good it's like I think we are doing very good let's go because you know you have to also remember that summit is only half the way and you still have a mountain

to go down so we wrap up down Tibet side and I put the cover of Dalai Lama inside Tibet and I said I stepped into Tibet again and then I gave a picture of me holding a picture of him so there's a picture of Dalai Lama holding a picture of me holding a picture of him inside Tibet

that's hilarious what was his reaction when you told him that story he had so what he was like why why did you like he was just so shocked and but then I also took a zoom lens to I took a three like 180 panorama in several sections as far as I could and I also gave him that like the

view of Tibet from top of the world and just how much the glaciers have gone out and I don't think I've ever seen Kundun this sad when he was looking at those pictures those are in his home all of those yeah that was very sad but yeah that was the naughty thing I did and then

we came back did he ever reflect back to you like his thoughts on what you accomplished not yet you know this idea that he's like go to the mountains and then you go and you you you you go to the mountains and then some and then you go back to him what is his what does he say you about like this

this arc he never takes any credit and he doesn't like when any time I've gone back and said remember when you told me that and because he counsels so many people and also it's a very Tibetan thing a thing do not you know just everything don't don't take credit none of my teachers

ever won credit but so I in my 20s and 30s I was I had this karma with authority figures in pretty much every single country I was getting into trouble with the army the intelligence and a lot of this shit show that was happening in China and side China and so he would one was concerned

that a this young girl is going to get into a lot of trouble and probably get killed I already got banned and dah dah profile and so he was always you know I was going to him for protection and said like can you do something almost like can you call up the gods to remove this this so he

would he would be very serious and then wanting to know what happened back in Bangladesh when I would go back and then somehow something oh it was basically after Everest every single politician to intelligence they all became my friend because they had to claim me for their

parties right and so when I went back and told told him that he was just going from his home to a Sukhla tongue which is the temple and we met in in the street and I was like oh is there's no more trouble anymore like did I don't know what happened like dah dah dah dah dah dah and he looked so

disciplined he made this very disappointed face he's like oh like he made a disoriented face and said I must go back into prayer now to cause you more trouble because the whole concept is if there are no obstacles then you're not going to learn anything yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but I

to answer your question to go back to your question I think my memoir would be the good way to let him know and that because there's so every chapter has him in some way or other so I think I got to finish it soon and yeah the clock is ticking you've been working on it for a while right

no because I know why because a lot in my the first book proposal I got was after Everest 20 when I was only 29 I'm going to be 42 this year and my story hadn't finished at that time so this one is now finishing at 40 when I leave for K2 and that's where it should it because I hadn't

gotten the healing the mother wounding stuff we talked about all of that work only happened in 2020 there's so much more I want to talk to you about but I'm going to have to release you back to your life but I'm not going to let you go I think until we kind of land this and the way I want to land it

is is with a little reflection on what you might be able to share about the many transformations that you've undergone like somebody can look at your story and and be inspired by all the things that you've overcome to achieve all the things that you've achieved and I want to leave people with

some thoughts on how they might reflect on where they are in their life and and and what's what's standing in the way of them achieving some aspiration for themselves and and how to go about perhaps manifesting that that dream or that goal when I share my stories I think one of the most

important thing for me is to really make people realize that it does we're all climbing our own mountains regardless of whether we are an a-list or like we spoke about or wherever sort whatever circumstances we are in we're all suffering and we're all climbing our own mountains but having a

purpose having honesty and really working at it there is not and there's no mountain high enough for us to climb if I could do everything that I've done from the background that I came from anything is possible it truly is it's not a cliche line but we got to work hard for it you know

we really got to be prepared and train ourselves for it but there is a way out and we only get one chance at this game none of us know when we're going to exit this planet the likeness of me dying on a mountain is way less than me dying in the streets of let's say Taka City or LACD I don't like

civilization I don't function well in but just to give that like we cut we all come here for a very short time and we must make this a very purposeful time don't don't ruin it it's like what the Dalai would told me in different ways in our first meeting what do you say to the person who says I don't

know what my purpose is or I don't know how to find purpose or I know my life could be larger or more expansive but I don't even know where to start yeah that I think I mean that's how I was questioning in my mind when his holiness gave me the purpose lecture on my first meeting

but I think we all need to go on our own journey in our own ways and really dive deep into understanding what karma is and I don't mean again karma is even though the word means action what what what is the purpose that we came in but no one else can find it out for you we all have

to find it on on our own terms in our own ways and that journey will teach you so much like it did me you know I had to find my own purpose and oftentimes you know we go through journeys and it never makes sense but ultimately in the end it all makes sense yeah it doesn't make sense when

it's happening yeah later on you look back and you're like oh yeah of course but you don't get to see or have that feeling when you're in it it's not it's just sort of rigged that way isn't it hmm that was beautiful that was so I don't normally get to talk like this with a lot of people in

LA so how do you feel do you feel like we did it do you feel okay yeah I think we covered them a lot in the short time but I think we could talk for days yeah I think there's more I think we're gonna have to do a part two at some point yeah in the meantime I'm gonna I need to go to

this somatic healer we can do all our somatic work and come back and have a different episode on the inner work you really inspire me with your example we didn't even go into all of your activism and the kind of moral compunction and you know ethical way that you go about showing up

in the world to speak truth to power and to address the causes that are important to you so I think that would be something we could go into next time as well I just think it's a it's beautiful how you do that it's really powerful it's inspiring as an example of service and I'm just so glad we

had a chance to meet thank you for what you do and for coming here today to share thank you so much for having you need to get that book done and you need to get that documentary done right yeah we're working on it yeah good if people want to learn more about you where's the best place to

direct them to your website to your Instagram yeah I mean I got a step up my game on Instagram that's all my relief people are disappointed but yeah it's all my right it's just an illusion yeah yeah my Instagram is wasv in a zrin website is wasv in a zrin dot com either of those

uh Facebook same wasv in a zrin people still go to Facebook I have I have so many people huh globally yeah yeah no I mean all my American all the NGEO people are there it's a different crowd yeah but it's it's a Instagram is short attention span Facebook is more like long version

stuff yeah cool um thank you thank you thank you what is the um what is the word that you use in closing that is it's not a goodbye but it's um oh it's in Bengali actually yes starts with an a right what's happening so in Bengali we don't we have a this culture of saying ashi like uh

I'll be back or coming back shortly so we never we don't say goodbye we say ashi all right so let's end it with ashi yeah thank you so much that's it for today thank you for listening I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation to learn more about today's guest including links and resources

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