Orlando Bloom on The Spirituality of Extremes: Chasing Fear, Embracing Risk & Navigating Fame

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My guess today is... It's some films such as The Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Curse of the Black Curse, as well as films such as Troy, Kingdom of Heaven, and Gran Turismo. You're known all around the world. What do people not understand about what that experience is like? I was freaked out. It was crazy. It was bonkers. His latest offering is To the Edge, a limited-documentary series in which he shoulders three quite risky challenges, wingshooting, free-diving, and climbing.

I felt my life was in my hands, and so I was terrified. Pushing the edges showed me that coming back to the center is a blessing. This one goes deep. I achieved more in my 20s than I thought I ever would, and I realized that most of those things I thought was going to make me happy, didn't make me happy. I'm just so grateful for everything. You know, all of it.

Orlando, thank you for doing this, man. So nice to have you here. I'm thrilled to explore your life today. I enjoyed the show. I binged it last night. Thanks for watching. And just delighted to learn a little bit more about who you are. Thanks, man. Well, thanks for watching. I'm so grateful to be here. I will say I feel quite open and vulnerable at the moment, with what would the show coming out in the first half of the year?

I'm coming out in the first half of the year, and I have been unscripted. And I have read up on you a little bit as well, and you're amazing. And the people that you have on this show are insanely amazing, gives hope for society, actually, in many ways. So I'm like, what am I doing here? Listen, you've lived an extraordinary life. And although the facts of your background are very different from mine, I think we share a lot of commonality in our pronest towards extremes.

And how pushing that edge can be a guru, it can be a way to explore darkness and light, to kind of dance with the polarities. And I think your show really explores that. I think I had two, first of all, it's great. I loved it. And there's two kind of like main takeaways on a kind of top level, metal level from the show that I, that resonated with me. And the first is that like you're a seeker, and you're on this kind of path towards growth.

And the show is a way of exploring kind of where you were at. I mean, that was like two years ago, right? When you actually filmed it, it was a while ago. Yeah, probably. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. A little less, but yeah. But in that window of about you and a half years ago, yeah. But it's sort of this capsule that illustrates where you're at on this trajectory, which is an ongoing thing, right?

So I guess that was my first takeaway. And I have questions about that. But the second one is really about, you know, these gifts that we find in exploring the extreme. And, and how that is confronting for a lot of people who would say that you should be, you should really be aspiring to a life that is in balance.

So I guess the first question I would have is like when people say like just live a balanced life. Can't you just like be in the middle a little bit? Like for me, that ruffles my feathers. And I've kind of gone full circle and how I process that. But I'm sure people say that to you. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah, it's true. Don't disagree with any of that. Just find life to be more exhilarating on the outside of it, on the, on the edges of it.

And actually, perhaps for me, and for us sometimes pushing our edge and stepping out to that place is where you appreciate the center, where you appreciate the middle ground, because I would say in some ways, you know, I've been asked a few times what I would do again.

Wing shooting is one of the most exhilarating feelings and I would love to get back up there with Luke or Jack, he was amazing. But I've sort of simplified a little bit in some ways. I'm like, I'm like, I'll keep doing these things and taking action. But like I'm finding taking action in my daily life, there are smaller things that just require bigger moments so that I'm going, oh, that's just take action, keep doing it, keep doing what you're doing, keep moving forward.

And actually pushing the edges, show me that coming back to the center is a blessing. Appreciating the mundanity, the small moments, yeah, which has happened historically. Yeah. Yeah. So dancing in the extremes allows you to appreciate the meaning that you find in the small moments of everyday life, being a dad, being able to be super proud of sorts of things.

Like being in the extremes forced this like, Uber presence. Like if I wasn't supremely present to my experience in that moment, particularly with wing shooting because of the position of the body in the suit and what's required, I felt my life was in my hands. And so I was like terrified and I was like, never more alive and feeling exhilarated. And so when I come home now, it's sort of like just keep being present.

Just what's, how do I, how do I focus on just how do I keep that presence alive and vital right in my life with my daughter with my partner with my family with my friends, whatever with just with myself at times. And the half life of that experience persists. In other words, you had that experience like two years ago, but you're still able to be present with what it taught you and bring that into your life or do you feel like you have to still go out.

And, and you know, taste that in order to be, be present without experience so you can be present in the moment. I would say that I, it was a reveal about the nature of my way of looking at life and thinking and the sort of habits that I had become, like the habits that had become part of my life, the impulsive behavior, the impulsive nature of my life, you know, which is easy to kind of look back over my life and see the history and why the wears and wires and how's all that happened.

I think that like it showed me that like I don't have to be on the edge to live and feel like I'm on the edge. Do you know? Yeah, I mean, I think extreme peak experiences like wing-soothing or free diving or the climbing that you did in the show can be these teachers, they are gurus, but they can also be like the dark side of that is that they can be escapes.

They're a way to numb yourself or to run away from, you know, mundane moments to escape from the self. You can use them as a portal to explore your interior self and what makes you use so that you can become the most authentic version of who you are. There's a self actualization like peace to it, but I think also a lot of people use it as a way of running away from themselves.

And so understanding that difference and knowing where you are on the, I mean, all these things are on a spectrum, of course. Like, am I using this to better myself to become a more, you know, fully actualized Orlando or am I doing this because I have a hard time being present in my life and I need these peak experiences in order to kind of tolerate, you know, the mundanity of the average life. Yeah, and I think you've just articulated it perfectly. Thank you so much.

But yes, I think historically my life was a lot of risk taking hence, you know, a multiple, you know, multiple visits to the hospital and a near loss of life at 20. Actually, that was a very recentering thing for me. But yes, I think the impulsive nature of my thinking and behavior up until I think the my desire for going into the show was the was to feel that in working with these experts in their fields.

And then I was the one from, you know, Luke Akins and Camila Jabbar and with with with with all true version and Mobeck, amazing athletes. I was learning to unwire this impulsive nature and understand and respect that these somehow we refer to these people as like adrenaline junkies and people think that but they're actually the most present supremely focused athletes and people.

Like Jack, he was on the ground in the show and he goes, you're not, when Monica, Luke's wife says, you're afraid because you're not afraid you're excited, you know, that guy is like that guy is doing the wingsuing through the through the passage. Right. Now he's the dude, you know, and for people that don't know Luke Akin, I mean, he's the go right.

He's this is the guy who jumped out of a plane at what was it like 20 25,000 feet without a parachute and landed in that net, you know, it's like, it's like, he does. Right. But he's great because he's so casual about the whole thing and throughout the show or that episode, he's just throwing so much information at you so quickly. And there's a couple shots of you, like you, you have this sort of ghost pal or like, can I process?

Like I don't know if I could take it like it's like, you're a death stuff too. And he's like, do this, do this. You'll be great. It's fine. Like he's pretty mo with the climbing. She, she was the only one who was like, listen, dude, like if you don't get this right, like it's, it's your day. Yeah, you're dead. You can now like she's giving you the truth and Luke was just kind of making it like this is all fun and games. Right.

Right. But with them incredibly prepared and methodical. And then I walked to the plane with Jack occasionally and he'd be like, yeah, Bob, you know, he'd give me the few. So like, and Monica is well, by the way, whose Luke's other half, who happened to be training me as well for the skydiving aspect was, who was amazing. There was like, it was the trifecta with all of them. Yeah.

You're absolutely right about Luke. You've nailed that. And he is wonderful. And I couldn't have done it without him. But there was aspects of like Monica and Jack both all tag teaming me in different ways with just a little word here or there. It was the trifecta that got me out the plane quite frankly. Right. And the point being like we see these clips on Instagram. We were just talking about the wing suit guy who like wing suited into a flying plane. Like you see that and it's just insane.

And you can't help but think these people are on some kind of death mission. Right. But their whole lives are devoted to the precision of this art and this sport that they're exploring. And you have to understand that. And like your journey towards like appreciating the methodic way in which they've organized their entire lives in order to do this one thing is an antidote to the impulsivity that led you to fall off a three story building.

And you know, these other kind of adventures that have landed you in the ER probably more times than you wish to recall. Yeah. Yeah. We we we've had Alex Honolulu in here a couple times and you know he always gets asked like about fear and his relationship with risk and what you don't understand or can't appreciate and and what free solo was so great at kind of elaborating on was just how precise he is and how prepared and how long it took him to get to that place.

And certainly it's still this unreal risk that he's taking. But his relationship to different because he knew every nook and crag of that entire wall and anticipated everything that he could I mean there's certainly variables outside of your control.

But he was as prepared as one could possibly be on planet earth matched with an unreal, you know, talent and level of preparation and that's what doesn't get seen or appreciate that's what you don't understand I always I kind of pointed that out in the press for the show I was like there's a 15 second clip you see on any social media and people think oh I'll just try that.

Bye see you later nice life you know come back next time let's try again it's the dedication is insane and the focus and the commitment so people say you're going to do it again I'm like I wouldn't just I can't it's a lifestyle choice you know climbing like finding a climbing buddy finding something that you're a team of people that you would want to go and do that with and then you know scheduling make or you know free diving like I went a couple of times after and just on my own I can't do it.

Just on my own I took my friends when we were on vacation and you know I went down to maybe 15 20 meters which was fine for me but but you know it was it's not something you know anything can kind of go wrong do you know what I mean you know somebody watching you and there's nothing there's nothing light or casual about anything that you that that you do in these sports certainly with skydiving you know it's great to get my eyelike a license I can just jump any I could go jump right now you know that's awesome.

But like wingshooting you know I may be the first person to have jumped on 25 jumps in a wingsie when you know that's there is an insanity that that's that was that going off in the plane was crazy. The expedited schedule that you're on for all three of these disciplines is borderline borderline reckless you know I mean it really isn't and I think for me like watching the show the thing that was most confront and borderline reckless yeah we're going to get into it.

You're feeling vulnerable I'm going to exploit that the thing that was most confronting was or that came up for me and watching it yeah was control like I have control issues I have trust issues and all three of these disciplines require so much trust and other people and also in the gear.

Yes and when I saw you climbing it's like I don't trust that gear I don't trust anything any any any of those people are telling me their way to casual about this like I just could not imagine putting my I've done some extreme things in a in a whole different. You know realm yeah but in this context you know I had a real hard time like I got queasy watching you climb.

I was trying to I was like I don't even understand how these ropes work like is that really going to help that was all that I'm hanging on it's literally a not by the way it's like there's a there's a small piece like a metal ball kind of that with a with a with a loop on it and then you kind of put that into a crab is pull it and you're like okay that holds okay I'm off we go yeah you know and then I mean listen there's obviously in anything you do you could cross the road and have that accident but there was also.

Also taking responsibility for Mo Mo's life that was massive really really really added a dimension that I hadn't expected because my life is one thing right but like if I didn't get and there is a movement and a physicality that

years of muscle memory will teach you to do comfortably but as she pointed out like people will climb have climbed for two years before the attempt and you know right yeah and I'm like you know not that experience so it was it was the muscle memory and I was like am I going to be able to get this right these knots if I don't and there was a couple of a couple of a kay I'm working to thank for purchase. Yeah the pain and the labor in the ocean.

like the preparation, like what you can control, what Orlando can control. Like I can do all the preparation, I can comport myself, I can be present while also having to embrace like a deep level of trust and surrender. So it's like self-reliance, but also this like letting go. But I think is instructive in terms of life as like a rulebook for life. Like how do you find the balance between those two things?

Because all things, whether you have a goal that you're pursuing or you're preparing for a role in a movie or on stage, you do the preparation, you control the controllables, and then there's like a letting go and like it and allowing, right? Like what is gonna happen is gonna happen. And for me to execute on this goal, I have to kind of let go of all of that and just be as present as I possibly can. Yeah, that's right.

And all three disciplines required a certain, a different kind of preparation and focus and type of letting go if you like. For example, dive was like, I was so possibly more scared and dive than anything else because I wondered if I would come back up. You know, I was like, am I just gonna keep going? Cause I'm so, I love it. That's the one discipline where you can't push the edge because you still have to get up.

And even in a competition context, the best when they rise to the surface and break the surface, they still have that little routine that they have to do. They have to recite their name or whatever it is. Yeah, they can't just pass out as they come to the top or they get disqualified. So you have to know how to come before. And that's the edge is right there. Two could be two feet from the top. That's the edge. It's not the bottom. The bottom is halfway.

And you've dropped all that way down, you know? And Will had had a pass, had had had had an attempt at like 90 meters, which should have been quite well. Who knows what's doable, but he'd had an attempt and had a blackout at the near the surface, like couple of days before I was there and I was like, where you are? And I don't historically, we were saying what we were touching on is my edge. What was my edge?

Like impulsivity meant I had so many accidents cause I didn't know, I don't know boundaries, I don't know my edges. So this was what the show was teaching me. So the reason I was so scared with diving was I just didn't, didn't know if I, not knowing my edge, if I would come back up from that and not, you know what I mean?

Yeah. And as Camila had pointed out, when you train for this, people will go to 80 meters and then they'll go to 81 meters and they won't go from 80 to 20, you know, 80 to 85, 85, it's like, it's incremental, it's tiny increments and it's a huge level of training. And I was doing this in four days, right? But you hit 37 meters? Yeah, that's pretty good, dude. Yeah, I joined the 100-foot club. Yeah, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. I've done, I've flirted with free diving.

I did a one day thing. I was in Malta in Gozo. Oh yeah. You did Troy there, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was a guy there, he's like a four time world champion. And so I spent the day with him and I did a lot of those breath work exercises that you see in the show. And I'm pretty good at that. I was swimming background. But when we got to the water, I just couldn't figure out how to depressurize my head, like the pressure, I couldn't clear it. So I could only get, like the breath was fine.

It was like, what do you call that when you're trying to like, equalizing. Equalizing, yeah, equalizing. I could not equalize. And you ended up like injuring your ear like by blowing too hard. I think I pushed too hard. And that was, that was like really confronting with, you know, okay, this is my body and my body will not. There's something, there's a gate that's being held. There's a boundary being put in place by my body, which historically, I've never.

Well, your body is saying like, not a fast body. Yeah, like this is a longer road. Yeah, yeah. I think the universe, my body too. Yeah. I mean, speaking of breath work that you did when, when I did the death pet table. Yeah. That was, that was next. That took you to a different place. That was great. You travel, dude, because it suddenly, there was like this surge of emotion that came over. I was like, wait, what?

I literally, I was like, I don't know what I just went into, but it was life and death related. And I was like, and I keep thinking, well, why didn't I stop? The funny thing is like, like, my body was like, well, why did you keep to it? Because I'm like, that's, I won't stop. Yeah. You know, that's part of what I had to, like. But where does that come from? Like, where does that default setting, how did that get installed? Where does the impulsivity derive from? Like, what happened?

What happened when you were a kid that, like, formed you in that way? Um, so from zero to seven is when we get imprinted, probably quite extremely, right? So my mother is amazing. My mother is one of the greatest opportunities and for my growth and loves me, like, crazy, but is also like, was in boarding school the age of four in India, in England, when her parents lived in India.

So that's kind of a unique situation in terms of, like, if you imagine, like, what her understanding of what nurture would be, right? So I'll give you two, a couple of quick stories, which, you know, I will preface with, my mother is remarkable and has given me life. And this is why I feel so blessed, right? And all of this. And, and thank you, very grateful. And my next door neighbors were Irish family, the Maccaboy's, and I remember the mother saying, Jesus, what's going on?

I used to see you crawling over the rockery when you were, when you're an infant. And then could you, that woman's going to kill that child? Because, like, you know, that was my life. And before the age of four, I was in a now hospital. I think, and my mom, my mom has said to me, which she probably, like, regrets now in some ways, but I think it's sort of interesting that that, actually, they said, do you love yourself?

Because if he's back in hospital again, we're going to have to think about what's going on. Because I fell out of a tree and broke my arm. I think she was picking wood up in the garden. And I'd like, my head was banging against this aluminum frame that she was carrying me on her back with. So I cracked my skull. I fell off a stool and cracked my skull. I mean, you know, this is before I'm conscious enough. So, right?

So, if you think, like, and then when I broke my back at 20, I went to see the school therapist because I was, it was a near-death experience that had profoundly, you know, impacted my life and thinking in ways that I probably, like, I'm like a can-do guy. I'm like, I can push through anything. Because my mom used to give me, you can do it. That's what my mom gave me. So, you can do it. And I'm like, you know what I mean? So, I had that attitude of everything.

But when I had this therapy session, it was like, so have you been injured before? And I was like, yeah, and I went through the list, which was like, on both hands, you can add it up. And she was like, hmm. So, there's a pattern we could say. And I was like, oh, yes, there's a pattern.

And it was so, it was through that pit process of counseling at the school and realizing that I had had a pattern of every couple of years, nearly, like, breaking or doing something that was very, you know, that led to me being in hospital or close, you know, that I was like, oh, oh, is this attention? What am I looking for here? What is it that I've not been getting, right? What is it that's missing? And so, in a way, you know, you know, is the show all about one big attention?

It was like, is my whole life like one giant screen for attention before my mother? Right, right, right. But like, I know, you know, through the years of therapy and the years of different ways of thinking that, yeah, of course, on one level. But like, I think there are so many, you know, levels to all of this thinking. But I think, you know, what is the takeaway for somebody who's going to watch this? Who's maybe had all of their own stuff, right?

Because we're all, like, on this journey, right? We're all, I believe, interconnected and having this experience and, you know, we're little satellites going around with little, you know, if you, if you broke us all ourselves down, wouldn't we be about the same as a galaxy anyway, right? So I see us as little galaxies running in and out each other, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's like, I don't know, I just was like, well, maybe anything I do here pushing my lead edge will be something where somebody goes, well, I end up doing that. That's crazy. Okay, don't jump out of the plane. I'm not suggesting you do that. But what is that edge for you? Find that edge and do that so that maybe you can come back to centre. I'm not saying live in that space.

And I'm also not suggesting that I wasn't blessed enough to have amazing teachers, as we've just said, help guide me through it. But I do like the idea of taking myself out of my comfort zone. And like that's kind of why I'm sitting here, honestly, because in the way it's the last thing I wanted to do. You're doing like, you're going to go on a camera. That's why I haven't done podcasting. You're doing a podcasting. Exactly. Well, you're here right now.

I'm going to push you out to the edge of your comfort zone. Because there's always brother and sister. You are a seeker. Let's seek together. Okay. What are we going to discover? You've got a lot more interesting people to be able to do. A lot more interesting subjects on this. I think to your point of, we all are imprinted on some level at a very young age based upon how we were parented. And how we kind of just came in genetically into the world. I mean, there's truth in that.

And I share that desire for approval. And then also never quite feeling like I was getting it, which fuels more and more and more and more extreme behaviour. That led me to be in pasta. Oh, yeah. They're going to ring me. Or land out. They're going to come in here and drag me out of here before this podcast is over. Trust me. They'll get me first. Just people. I'll say, take me. People pleasing, you know, being a chameleon, who do you need me to be?

Yeah. You know, that I had a whole kind of dark exploration and substances. Anything to check out. And extreme sports can be a version of that. But I do think that you've leveraged this for growth. So where did the impulse to be on this, you know, journey towards, towards growth come from? Like it's one thing to be an extreme sport athlete and be attracted to that, like a moss to the flame. It's another thing to say, I want to grow. I want to evolve.

And I'm, I'm game for anything that's going to, you know, help me expand. Like I feel like that is a default setting that you have. Yeah. I think that that, that, that's, that started a lot, a long time before the show though, right? Sure. I mean, you have this dates back. I don't know when that began. Do you have a sense of when that kind of came online for you? And why? Probably surprisingly young. I think I just, I wanted to be not where I was in some ways.

Or I wanted to be like, I had this, it's so funny. Like I grew up with a lot of, um, uh, watching a lot of American style TV and shows and stuff like that in, in, in England. But, and I think like there's aspects of, you know, my childhood that were, were, would, would challenge me in, in different ways. And I had a very happy childhood in many ways.

Like a really solid middle class upbringing, really beautiful home, lots of, but there was, there's something that I, that meant I wanted to be away. I wanted to get somewhere else. Like I remember envisioning in this, I was in the, in the, in the, in the gym at school. And I imagine myself flying in as Superman to grab my girl and then this, this girl who had a crush on it, but I was nine years old. I was going to fly out with her or something.

So I had all these, I think in some weird ways because of the backstory of my father, which is very complex. Yeah. It has been talked about a lot, but I didn't, you know, I had this idea of who my father was because my mother had told me that my father was Harry Bloom. And then I found out. Who is a civil rights activist in South Africa? Like an anti-apartite activist, right? Yeah, like a hero in my mind. Yeah, yeah. He'd written a book and called Transval.

I was open who was in prison with Nelson Mandela, who was like this hero in my mind. So until I'm 13, I've like got this heroic view of a man. Like my mom has given me a little bit, but my imagination is just, you know, I have no idea who that guy was. You know what I mean? Right, he's asked why I'm in here. He's asked why I'm in here. When you were four, right? And he was gone even before that, right? Yeah. So you never really had a, he was in the house, but I have one memory of that.

So I think I had this idea, I'd create my imagination. I created an idea of a man, right, that was based on the framework of who Harry Bloom was. And then my father, who was in my life, but I didn't know he was my father. He was my legal guardian, who is like, I have just a wonderful relationship with, still and continue to. He was in business with my mother, but he was also like, he was younger. He was 10 years younger than my mother.

And he was in an office in the bottom of the house, like trying to build this business out, a foreign language school. And I'd sort of see him at weekends and we'd go and like, walk and build, like, huts and then I'd, you know, stay with him for weekends. But I think he was struggling as well. His own masculinity was struggling at that time. We're trying to build a business, not being with my mom probably, or being confused about whatever that was. He was 24 when he was, you know, where I was.

Right. And it was a consensual thing that he would, that he would father you. Like, it's a complicated weird thing, right? I know. It's a dry answer for you. Uh-huh. You still don't know the answer. There's, there's my mother's story. And then there's, you know, and then there's his story. There's a lot of, there's a lot of ambiguity. Yeah, ambiguity, but that created a lot of uncertainty. I would imagine being a young kid trying to figure out, you know, where you feel safe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But also, like this incredibly eclectic household, I mean, it sounds like your mom was really supportive and she was able to see that you had this imagination and this artistic sensibility. She really fueled that. She really supported that. She was like fully throwing everything. Yeah. My mom was the one who got me to do Bible class it, Bible reading. And like, so there was the Ken Festival, which was a Canterbury Festival, where you do poetry, prose, Bible reading.

And I did all of them and I won all the competitions and I was a kid and like basically got the cups and I was like, yeah, I did it. I mean, I did it. You know, she was the one who was like, took me to, drove me to teachers who were like, this is how you recite this poem. This is how you say this piece of text. This is, this is how you read this piece from the Bible. And, you know, then you would like sit in front of like teachers or not teachers, but judges.

And then you'd see if you came first, second or third, you know. Yeah. And you were naturally good at that or you got good at it. I was probably good and I also worked at it and I, and it was something that kind of gave me that was a really strong foundation.

And so, although I will say that I had terror when it came to stage fright, you know, and if you like just before this, I'd been wrecked coming down here in the car, but, you know, I've been like, oh, and if I have to, if I have to say anything publicly, you know, which is random because here we are without scripts. I'm like, oh, God, I'm just going to put my foot in my mouth. Oh, God. I'm, I still feel this way. You're very charming, though. You should, it's not rational, but you feel that way.

Well, there you go. There's nothing very rational about who I am, but I live it, you know. But it's like, I don't, I don't know that I think that's part of what it is as well was looking at like the emotion versus the rationale, right? And then if you think, you know, I mean, I can unpack all of this, but it's not really a therapy session. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it is. But it's like, but I think there's, there's, there's, there's instructed aspects of this story.

There's, there's a lot that's instructive about this. I mean, I think, I think, I think understanding that, that your mom was so supportive and saw this in you and realized like this, this is, this is what needs to be nurtured in this kid and to see you kind of thrive and, and, and, you know, ascend in that world so much so that you end up leaving school or leaving home at like 16, right? So you're in London, you're just a kid. Well, back to that school at 11 actually.

Oh, 11. So you were out of the, you were like, 11, I was like, you were having to take care of yourself at a very early age. Yeah. So, I mean, that, that seems to me to be related to the question of like, what instigated this desire to be on this growth journey? Like you had to, you had to figure things out for yourself. Yeah. That's true. That's true. I've had to, I definitely went on a, I've been on a long journey of self discovery. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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The hardest lift and the most courageous act is to understand that the real answers that you're searching for are really not going to be found there and they're going to be found only by going inward. And none of us really want to do that. That's a very challenging, inconvenient thing to do. It's kind of lonely. It can be quite lonely that process. Well, because it's on you and you alone. And there's nobody telling you that you have to.

I know I listened to your podcast with Trevor Noah and you said something along the lines of how Katie, your partner is sort of demanding your evolution or not. That's the wrong word demanding. But like is pushing you, right? To always be growing. And that's Julie's here. That's something that I think we share. And that is a fantastic thing to have in your life. Somebody who sees you for who you are, who holds a vision for the better aspects of you and can see how you can be better.

That is not willing to just accept you for who you are, but is expecting you to grow in lockstep. But it also makes it difficult. It's hard. Who wants to do that? It's a choice. Nobody's saying you have to do that. You have a great life. And so it would be easy to coast. It's all good. I don't have to do all this other shit. Yeah, no, I can't do that. The balance of life is for me in putting myself in other positions.

I feel, I mean, one of the things that I'm most grateful for really is the opportunity to work with Unicef, which I've had for 20 years now. And I think the first thing I said to Unicef basically was, I said, I'll go anywhere nobody else wants to go. I was like, you can send me there. If they don't like the worst places, I'll go there. Because I'm like, that's where. And so, I was in Liberia, the tail end of Ebola. And that was so terrifyingly shocking.

And I was in pretty unique places with them. And I remember when I first went, I went to Nepal for my first trip and it was like a soft touch or was it was like, here, do this. I even went to a tiger sanctuary or something. You know what I mean? It was like introducing him to this. And I remember you'd want to go to Nepal anyway. Right. And I remember sitting at the top of this village in this village and I was like, wow, this is like a billion dollar view, by the way.

Like it's, I mean, it's like, you just look, and I'm all around me at these like, is a community that was really struggling because they didn't have a tap. A winking tap. Right. So the kids, the daughter, this young woman was walking two and a half miles upper, upper hill to collect water that was contaminated, right. And this is 20 years ago. So they were putting water in plastic bottles on a corrugated iron roof.

So the sun would go through it would kill all the, but then they're getting all the plastic too, right, which we know now. But like that was at least they weren't getting sick from drinking the water. And there were the, and it was basically the women in this community who had done a map and they were like, so this is the little lake and this is the woods and this is the, this is the houses and the, the, the, the, the hearts that people live in. And this is the one they don't have an outhouse.

So we're trying to get them to put a little outhouse so that they're not defecating anywhere because basically kids are dying from, you know, the disease of, you know, diarrhea. It's like we'll kill a kid under two and like this, you know what I mean? And, and these communities and I was like, sitting there thinking, what do I have to do? What do I have to do to be able to have an impact in a big way for this community, for these, for this, for the, for the things that go there?

And I think that part of doing the show is, and, and all of this is that sometimes I just don't want to keep pushing myself out there because it's just a lot because I think when you're trying to do something good in the world, you just get swung with the negative. You know what I mean? Like the backlash is just, do you, do you ever feel that?

That, that, that when you, when you're trying to message really good things, you get, you get the, of course, yeah, it just, so it's like I'm, and I'm sweating. I'm wearing the wearer, not, not nearly on the level that someone like you must have to experience that. Well, I'm super aware of it. So I'm like, I'm going to do this now and I'm going to get this then, you know what I mean?

It's like, so I like literally have to go, okay, I'm going to do this podcast now and try and put a lot of positivity and messaging out. And I guarantee you I'm going to get a slap on the, you're back from the universe. No. You're going to be like, you know what I mean? It's like a set up. It's literally like, it is a set. I feel like sometimes I'm like, is it a set up? Is this a simulation? We like literally is that, you know what I mean?

But my Buddhist practice would have me go, that works too. Whatever. It just pulled me all over on it. Yeah. Well, what it, what it, what it demands of you is to really look at your relationship with the opinions of other people, right? And this is like a huge thing for me, you know? I mean, you can't get it up. You can't get it up. Yeah. But you can't be you without having to contend with that though, you know? But I'm sure there's an emotional, you know, cost to that. That's the one.

That is the one for everyone, right? That's the one. So you have a choice. You can be a shut-in and do nothing or you can do what it is that you're here to do and share your gifts and try to do good and let the chips fall as they may. That's right. Yeah. Give less. But it's going to be tough. I mean, you're, you know, you're known all around the world and your partner is known all around the world.

Like this is a, you know, this is like a Wonder Twins powers activate situation where I'm sure you guys can't go anywhere. Like how do you do it? We do, we do, we do. You do. Yeah, yeah, we do. She's, we're very good at that. She's very good at that. She was always good at that. Yeah, we get on with it. This isn't 2006. I remember what it felt like to be Justin Bieber with Ailey Beamer. I remember what that felt like.

You know, it's a different time and thankfully, great for like, and we're good at it. She's always been good at it. And I've always been, I got good at hiding, which wasn't good, actually. Like hiding from the world or hiding from yourself. Like just like, like I want to miss it. I just hiding so that I didn't, I think it played out in a lot of ways, but there was a period where I just couldn't go anywhere. So I used to ride motorbikes to get from A to B. I wore a baseball hat or I had a hat.

I mean, like a different hat. Peak lower to the rings. Or time. I was, it was pirates really. Yeah. It was in a Blomwig, didn't it was hard to, but it was pirates through pirates and all this, all this stuff. 2006 on, you know, my mom had this article. I always start talking about this because I must, I must, it must play into my ego. My ego loves this story.

So I'll tell you, but my mom kept this article from the New York Times saying that I was the most, she was like, darling, you're the most Google person on the planet for four years now. It's in the article. You know, and it was like, that's a lot above, above Britney Spears. That's a lot. So how do you even like mentally? I was freaked out. Freaked out. Freaked out. She was like, we've got to do something with the internet to do. You know, I'm like freaked out. No, we're not doing anything.

I'm hiding. I'm going under this shell and I'm just going to come out and be on set and I'll do my best to, you know, no idea. I was, it was, that was a lot. It all happened really fast. I mean, you, you booked and landed Lord of the Rings like right as you graduated from drama school, right? You've done other things. It wasn't your first thing, necessarily, but I mean, I'd moved to London when I was 16 and I also had like a crazy person to get anything. Yeah, it was a lot. And you were what?

20. 20, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty, you know, that would be enough to derail anybody. Yeah. Yeah. And alcohol was never a thing for you though. Was it? Yeah, it was. Oh, I did. You didn't get into big trouble with that or anything. Did you? I had more, I think, you know, because I was on my own at 16 in London. I had more, I did a lot of drugs and had a lot of alcohol, but I had that Buddhist practice.

And I remember that David who had a Shaka Bukumi, which means introduced me, had sort of, I'd said to him, I was like, I even remember saying like, so you saying I could like chant for like more of this, more of that and more of this. And I was like, really into this girl and whatever it made me. And he was like, yeah, do what? Turn for all of that. Chaffer, you're self-serving needs and desires. Which is very short.

Because it was, because there's this phrase which earthly desires lead to enlightenment. So the earthly desires of me seeking these things, these negative parts, I would wake up in these crazy situations where I shouldn't be at that age. And I'd be like, I shouldn't be here. Okay. Where should you be? Not here for starters. Okay. So I would just step out of this and then it was like, David also shared the teachings of those sacriocates, my mentor. So I would be reading little bits.

And I'd be like words like integrity or wisdom or courage or compassion were starting to filter through my, which I was finding through reading. Nobody had told me to. So it was like a part of this edge self, the self-education tool thing. But with my probably undiagnosed ADHD and dyslexia and a lot of things, I was like, everything was had to be experienced to be understood. So it's been a very interesting learning curve over the years.

And I think that I was disciplined enough, self-regulated enough to know that I didn't want to live in Canterbury. I'm born in 77. So there was a period where there was a thing of like go out and be your own, there was a statue. But go out and be your own hero and build your own, all of that. So I think in a way, I wanted to build. And I had a taste for really good things. And I could mix with people from the estate.

And the estate means like an area where it was like low income housing or other public housing situation. And then I'd have like a boarding school that I was going to where there were like kids who were like, you know. And so, and I just kind of, I don't know, I never felt like I was one thing or another. You know what I mean? I know I get it, I get it. I mean, this idea, you're not going to go home to Canterbury.

You're going to continue to pursue this thing, but you're touching up against like some crazy experiences and you know well enough like, hey, that flames too hot. But I've got to figure out a way. And I've got to figure out a way of living for myself. I want to go. I'm still going there. When you have this Buddhist practice that is as philosophical as it is faith based, like it is this roadmap, this sort of art of living kind of philosophy. That's right. And for me, how did that come in?

How to explain how that originated for you? So I was 16 and I was 17, sorry, 17 probably. So I did sculpture, photography and theater studies, knowing that I wanted to be an actor, knowing that I needed art and creativity for my imagination and knowing that like education had been a real challenge up until that point and I'd taken a ton of extra classes to get it, any of it. But I got it all of it. But like it was hard.

So, but for my sculpture exam, I had, I was really good at just sitting and like you could just put something in front of me and I'd be like, and we like, whoa, cool. But I had no, I hadn't done a piece of drawing and I had to have drawings to back up every piece of sculpture that I made and I had to have to show the thought process that went into it. And then I had a 15 hour still life drawing exam, a 15 hour oil painting exam along with my 15 hour sculpture exam.

And I, and my teacher sort of told me there's like three months before, before the exams and all that and I was like, wait, what? It's like an endurance event.

And I was like, my brain just like, because I was hanging, like I needed those grades for drama school, whatever, I just like, you know, so my best friend Mark, I was like, who's like my brother, who I've known since I'm 13, has, and is like literally, you know, saved my life in many ways, was like the reason I moved to, like, help me get to London and stuff.

Introduce me yet again coming in to save my life to this artist David and David lived in the hometown next to me and every weekend for about, for every weekend up leading up to the exams, I went down to a post and I, and he would set me up with an ease or when he'd go here, just look at the, yourself and the mirror and paint this and use these.

And I'd hear him in the other room and he'd go, now me on, you're, now me on, you're, now me on, you're, now me on, you're, now me on, you're, now me on, you're, so one day I go, what are you doing? You guys, I'm chanting that you're going to be really successful in your life and that you're going to have this like great, you're going to do amazing your exams or like, oh, cool. Well, will it help? He goes, yeah, I go, cool.

So I get down on my knees and I'm just like, now me on, you're, now me on, you're on, you're, I start chanting, right? And then I'm chanting them. I mean, this like exam for sculpture and there's a whale bone and a, and a, and a, and a great fruit or something I'm painting. And I'm like, I'd be looking at it. I go to the bathroom, now me on, you're, now me on, you're, now me on, you're, now me on, come back out and I'm like, okay, come on, carry on.

Anyway, got the highest exam, got the highest grade in the, in, I believe they asked to keep my work because I think they were like, this is the grade that we want following you to have to hit. So we'd like to keep your work in the highest grade in the country kind of thing. I got whatever I was like, and I was like, oh, well, this, this is, this is working. Yeah. And you know, like, what else did I jump for?

You know, that was enough proof for you to look more deeply into whatever this tradition is. Earthly desires leads to enlightenment was a big one for me because I think I, in my young life, in my 20s, I achieved more in my 20s than I thought I ever would. And I realized that most of those things I thought was going to make me happy, didn't make me happy.

You know, like making a lot of money, making more money than I probably ever would need to have made, you know, just meant I wanted to need to make more money to keep up the things that I was buying that I didn't need that I was, you know, there's a whole slew of it, you know, it's like we're all just over consuming, right? We all just think we need that. And I'm still doing it. Trust me. Still doing it.

But I'm so much more aware, but I'm like, let go, let go, let go, let go, let go, let go, and the show was just like, oh, so you need to be near death for you to understand that. And that would work if you look at the framework of like probably nearly dying many times. So it's like, so force yourself into that so that you springboard into growth for me.

Yeah. Yeah, the experience of falling off the building and breaking, you know, falling out of trees and all that kind of stuff on some level, like, oh, the universe is trying to get your attention. Maybe this isn't the best way to go about things. I know what we can do. Let's give him everything he wants. And then maybe he'll discover something about himself in that process, like all the earthly desires satisfied. Now who are you? Yeah. Now what are you going to do? Right.

Where are you going to find meaning? Right. That's right. What is your, you know, where are you calibrating your compass, you know, to have that lesson at an early age? You know, it could have, it, it, look, that experience buries a lot of people, right? But for you to be able to extract that, that kind of wisdom out of it to reconfigure your priorities, I think, is there's, there's something inspirational about that. Oh, that's good.

Well, to be gifted with that experience of not only you were presented with this Buddhist idea as a young person, a lot of young people would have just said that's weird and have no interest. But there was something inside of you that was like, I'm going to move towards that, like that seeker thing, I think that is inherent in who you are. I actually got to meet my mentor, which is a huge deal.

You were saying before we met that you met the Dalai Lama and I've met the Dalai Lama a couple of times. Amazing, human, amazing to be in his presence, right? Dysaku Okita was not somebody anyone could meet, really, and it was very, like, he's a, he was a, he's of a unique, he was, he's no longer with us, he passed recently, but I was in Japan with this friend of mine from LA, this really powerful, strong Buddhist woman, Symbia was like, he's going to meet Sensei. I'm making this happen.

So she put out a call to say I was there in a way, because I'd been there countless times actually for publicity for movies, and she got a response to say, okay, that Dysaku Okita was wanted to meet me. And I think there were a lot of really, there's a lot of amazing members in my organization for across the world and one of them is this therapist from London, friend of mine, married to San Diego, amazing guy. He was saying, I couldn't understand why he would meet you.

And then I realized he must have been wanting to suss you out. He wanted to see, because I had at that time a huge following, and I couldn't go anywhere following, which was not harnessed by platforms on the internet. It was just, you know, it was just out there. And I think he probably wanted to size me up. So I remember meeting him, I had to get up on stage of this rock fan, the festival, and say, he environment, I was just saying something like, you know, it was like crazy.

And all these Japanese, because I had a big following there, went crazy and then I got taken in a car and I got on a train and I went with these amazing butters who just like had a sandwich for me and a bottle of water. And then we're talking to me about what I was about to do, which was to meet my mentor, I was like, okay, then I was like, and I remember getting off this bus and seeing him. And I literally kid you not, I was like, oh, I've done this before.

And that moment, I was like, oh, we've this other lifetimes? What? That was, it was, I've got goose bumps going through me as I remember that. Wow. And I got off the bus and I went over and I gave him this bus and he pulled me back and he went, boom, boom. He smacked you? Like this. But it was like, it was so, it was like, and then he helped me and looked at me and he went. And then he was like, I think first of all, culturally, you don't run up to a Japanese. You don't?

Yeah. You know what I mean? He was constantly teaching and I looked at him and then we went on this journey through the Nagano training center. And I just remember he was, we were in this golf car and there were people and it was felt like I was on this rollercoaster. I was felt like I was on a flying carpet, honestly. And then he was, I had, actually David was with me and my best friend from the show. Chris was there as well.

I think you remember the blonde gibo and my sister and he said, I'm giving you a reward. I want to give this medal to your mother. I want you to take this home to your mother and I was like, you know, and I was like, wow. So, what's coming up for you right now? What is that? What about you? My mom, so I gave her this. I just feel very, yeah, don't I, man?

It was, I think the moment remembering that because my mom is somebody that I'm constantly learning to evolve and grow the relationship with a boundary that I can, that I can navigate and feel safe, you know? We were talking before the podcast about the experience of visiting with the Dalai Lama and his recurring message around the mother's love for the child as a pathway towards compassion and forgiveness and understanding that how we think of ourselves as individuals is an illusion.

You were talking about like the caught, you know, like we're all one, we are all connected. And a vehicle or like a portal for really embracing that is being able to connect with that mother's love. And there's something about him deciding that the award should go to your mother that feels related to that in the sense of it's him recognizing that like his mother's love for you, like what she nurtured in you allowed you to become the person. That's right. And I think that it's all mothers.

I think that when he refers to the mother or when you're talking to the Dalai Lama, it's the mother, the mother, all mothers. He wrote this amazing piece of dialogue which he said to, and I would love to, there's just the one line in it is that I would love to share briefly because I think it's something that you might appreciate is he talks about a great future lies ahead of you.

We will see a transformation of history from the revolution of the external environment to that of the inner self, the human revolution. It will be an age in which the action of leaders will naturally be based on the guidelines of making all mothers happy. And I don't think that, you know, we can always understand that, the depth of that.

You know, there's this interesting time we're living in, but it's, and it's constantly for me, it's this constant like, like the love relationship with my mother is such a, such a unique thing. And it forces me to grow in such an amazing way. You know, and it's the reason why I'm here.

I remember when I was doing Lord of the Rings, I wrote this facts because we only faxes there's no emails, and I wrote this facts to my mom and I just said, because I was having probably, that was like, nivana of an experience, you know, over time in my life. I was the age-wise playing legalus, you know, this theory or being that was like, you know, so just like, and imbuing that, because I'm a 100% committed.

I'm not a mentored actor, but like I really try to shift my makeup when I go into a character. But I wrote this letter to my mother and I said, I just want you to keep this facts mom because I'm just so grateful for everything. You know, all of it, because actually like, that was, it was, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be on this set with these people. If whatever you had done hadn't worked. And even if you knew it or not, you know what I mean?

And all of it, you know, because I think, I think we're all, you know, I don't know, like are we all coming back lifetimes? Are there different, do you feel like you met people who've like, oh, they've done this a million times? Yeah. I feel like there are people who just go, oh, there's an angel. I don't know how many times have we done this podcast together?

Right. So I'm like, but like I would say my mother, I would say, I would say perhaps I've been here, I would say in some ways, I don't know, but like there are aspects of my mother's I'm like, wait, wait, what? This is the, wait, and then come back to, no, okay, this is the lesson. This is the lesson. So what am I going to do with it? But the gratitude seems like a consistent thing with you. Has to be. Yeah. Has does that come easy? Or do you have to work on that?

I think when you say, now I'm your angel, you're just basically saying I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful. So no, I work on it all the time. No, you kidding me? My head is like, I mean, it's untebid. Yeah. You told me you saw the shot. Yeah. So there's a kind of recurring motif of you chanting the mantra and there's, there's something funny about it too. Like there's a comment.

I mean, if anything's going to get meamed out of the show, prepare yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Memo one. However we can get the message out there. But I think, listen, it would have been, it would have been an easier and safer choice to just leave that part out. You know what I mean? Let's just make a show. You're jumping out of planes. You're doing all this stuff. And clearly you were like, no, this is central to what I want to say. To my life. It's my life.

And what do you want people to take from that? That I was always looking for a roadmap. I was confirmed in the Cathedral of Canterbury by the Archbishop of Canterbury. That is no. Yeah, that's some real shit. That's a big deal. Yeah. You can't not do this. And you have like 10 names. Yeah. What's your full name? I can't believe it. It's a mess. Yeah. It's a mess. You just need like a duke or you know, order or whatever attached to that. You can't, so you can't knock Jesus, right?

But I used to see him on the cross. In I'd sing hymns and sarms and chapel every morning. And I'd be looking at him every night. I feel so bad. But I didn't put you there. I'm so sorry you're there. And it was maybe through the teachings as well. And I had an amazing school chaplain by the way. He was just like, basically love, you know, like, but for whatever reason.

So, but I was like, so I met the practice at 16 because I hadn't, you know, I hadn't found a church or something, but I knew I needed a philosophy or a practice because it's, I think I'm just inherently also quite spiritual. So everything is dialed slightly that way, whether it's journeying with medicine or whatever it may be, it's always got that element to it.

But I think that, you know, I saw, I think it's just, Namiorengiakure was my journey, my path to understanding that we are all connected. We are, you know, what you do to somebody else will come back to you, whether that be good or bad. And that, unless we're all happy, none of us are happy, not really. So I can get all of these things, we can go out and I can keep accumulating and I can have all these things, but did it make me happy?

That like the process of like, yeah, of course, like when I'm driving really fast in my Porsche, I'm like, that's what I'm talking about. But I can enjoy that moment. But what makes me most happy is when I'm standing on the edge of the village that actually had a tap and that there were prayer flags and there were classrooms and they were just living, like with just being able to have water, right? But like, so I don't know, like, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm a big hippie at heart probably.

I'm like a big old. The hippie from Santabury, around the Church of England. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm a mess all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just, it's interesting to be raised in the church in that way and then connecting with a different faith tradition and having that resonate with you and and with staying power, like from 16 on, it wasn't a flirtation.

There'd been times in my life where I haven't chanted as consistently, but the fundamental practice and that thing and I'm always saying it even when I'm not, if I don't sit in front of my gohons and every morning, but I do now more and the more. And actually through these conversations, I've realized how much I need to get my study up. And also my practice, practice, study and sharing and it's like, I need study so much because I'm doing a lot of sharing right now. And I need this study.

What makes this tradition different from Zen Buddhism to better, other, other variations of Buddhism? For me, it's very user friendly. It's very taking action. I do meditate, by the way. I do TM, but I find that yoga for the mind. This is like my eyes are open and I'm about taking action in this moment. It's very accessible. There is amazing wisdom by Dysakuokater that I can get very easily, little snippets. I can go as deep as I want.

If I want to study the goh show and go deep into what the thinking of Nishwanda Shonen was that brought this teaching to the world, I can go back to Shaka Muni. It kind of encompasses everything. And there's a mystical aspect which is completely unfathomable, which plays into the part of my magical thinking, which is how am I even here. So for me, it's the trifect, it's the perfect package. It's the art of living. And I'd encourage anybody who wanted to chant, I'm Muni Gekyo.

Do you say it after me? Will you say Nam? Nam. Mioho. Rengue. Kyo. Kyo. I don't know how you... Mioho. Rengue. Kyo. Nam. Mioho. Mioho. Rengue. Kyo. So now, like I believe, and I said this to Jai, you never have to say that again, but my practice, my faith has taught me that you've just protected seven generations in your past and seven generations in your future. I believe that for you. So you have. And that's my faith. That sounds wild, but I believe that.

Now, if you imagine, let's take that forward, this lifetime is just in preparation for the next lifetime, right? I'm an eternal Buddha. I'm going to keep coming back. If I... Maybe that gives me a certain... It's like my escape. It's like Superman's cape, I'm meeting it. I've gone fly. I can... You know what I mean? It's like my protection. Maybe that thinking, because of my upbringing, is what helps me, right? Like I respect all people of faith.

I do think that faith has led to some catastrophes around the world, but like my parents-in-law, my own Katie's parents, pastors, you know, and always praying. And when they pray for me, I feel that. And I respect it. And I feel it deeply. And I know that they're protecting me. That's beautiful, man. But I'm... I know also that for me, like access to Namun and Yerkeel is what works. So, you know, check out the SGI.org. Yeah. And they don't want money from you. That was the crazy thing.

I never got asked for a cent. I've never been asked for a cent. Not one cent. And look at your blessed life. Yeah, I mean, I've given a lot, but only because I chose to. Not because nobody's ever asked me for a thing. It's so interesting. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. I always think that's a really interesting tell there, isn't it? You can tell something where they want money from. And when you recite the mantra though, you do it. Is there something about the speed, the cadence?

Because you do it so quickly and it takes on this tone. It's sort of like oaming, you know, in that tradition. Not like the sound of the universe. Like there's a throat singing kind of vibe that you get. I'm also recite, by the way, two chapters from the Lotus Sutro as part of my practice. It's very Japanese because Nishin and I shown it and took it through the Silk Pass landed in Japan, right? And there's a very Japanese aspect to it when I love Japanese culture.

I don't know how much time he's spent in Japan, but like, oh, love Japanese culture. And so I recite two chapters, the lifespan and the experience mean chapters as well. And like just, it's like, you're only going to get your whole bunch of money. You need to use it. You use my Android, your G.I.S, your G.I.S, your G.I.S, your G.I.S, your G.I.S. Your G.I.S. and it goes on for five minutes. And that's in me now because I've been reciting that. And it comes very naturally.

And then, you know, and that's, and I jump to a scroll and I have a little incense and like a candle and there's a little bit of greenery and some fruit. It's very beautiful and it just is like, centering. That's it. Is this something that your partner and your kids practice as well? Like, how does that go down question? In the household. So my partner definitely has, I said, as I've said, has had a history of, you know, being raised in a church.

So she has her own relationship with all things that are of the world and not, right? And it's really, really beautiful actually and really interesting. But she fully is on board and respects and wants me and loves and appreciates me doing that. And we'll say, like, now me only, you know, we like went before when she really is in moments, she'll say that. And Daisy, I say every morning and night and she says, oh, whenever I hang up my phone, I'm like, if I'm away at first timing.

And Flynn had had the same every now and then, but I, the way that I was shackled with Booku by David, again, being an entity, he was a very hands, he was very aware. Like he didn't, you know, he didn't force anything. And I feel that that's something that's really important. People will, they need to make it their own, right? It needs to be your own. You need to feel good about it. You need to want something or there has to be a reason for it. And it resonates, it definitely resonated for me.

So that's why I'm doing it. And maybe it doesn't for everyone, but then, you know, whatever works for you, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you're doing respect, but when you're doing your TM and you're, and you're reciting your mantra, do you feel like you're cheating? Yeah, yeah. You feel like you're cheating on your first true love. Oh my God, that's such a good question. I literally came out this morning and I told you, my brain was like going, why am I doing a ritual?

What have I got to say? What is there? There's nothing that this is insane. What are you doing? No, you're like, you just, you just have, you know, you just driveled on with Jay. I mean, well, you tried like those are the stories that the intruder in my head would at me believe, right? So I'm literally meditating for 10 minutes. I'm like, charm, bro. Like I, like the 20 minute time is on my phone and I stopped and then I'm like, when you're meditating, you feel like you should be chanting.

No, to be fair. Actually, no, no. No, no, so, so TM is not a religious practice. Right. And I find it to be really helpful to me, just like, if I'm on set and I'm just like, my body and brain are tapped because I'm like redlining because that's how I am. Yeah. Then I just go, and it's like, it just shuts everything off. But when I wake up in the morning and I charm, it's like starting the engine. And when I go to bed and I charm, it's like saying, thank you. And it's just saying thank you.

I'm just saying thank you all the time, basically. Those two practices are compatible for me. Yeah, absolutely. And I think they are. Yeah. And by the way, don't you think every religious practice, every spiritual thing, it comes at a certain point, it's all like, sure. Sure. Sure. Well, we get caught up in the trappings. I mean, you can get caught up in the words and the mantras and the, the, the costuming of all of these things and lose sight of the core truths.

Yeah. And I think that that's it. That's really at the root of all the, you know, strife that we have when it comes to the institutionalization of these various strands of thought, which at their, at their core, you know, are all beautiful in their essence, I think, and share more than they, you know, disagree on. Yes. Yes. Agreed. Meditation has been a recurring theme on this podcast dating back to its beginnings.

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So what is it that is the thing that you're working on now? Where's the piece where you don't really want to grow but you know you need to? Where's that edge with the inside job work? Like study, I think it's always study. It's always for me is like just going back to, I think I can always learn more reading, studying, not getting distracted by other things or choosing, like time navigating time.

It's pretty much constantly trying to come back to studying and learning and educating and myself so that I'm just like a more, keep being a more fully formed human. So what does that look like now? What are you reading? What are you looking at? What are you exploring? It's kind of like edge was an opportunity for me to physically push that boundary and go out. I think a lot of stuff that I've been reading have been around relationships.

So just because I didn't have a frame of reference for a relationship, so a lot, I've done a lot of stuff around relationships. I've been reading a lot around relationship. You did half men too. Half men was a great reveal. We possibly one of the greatest reveals. What did it show you? That if I leash in my intellect, which is that voice in my head that can be super judgmental and negative, and or is the one that is able to analyze a paper and take things on, which is super necessary.

If I leash in my inner child, which is the one that is like, you just need a hug or is the one that is like, let's play Beacuse is the creative genius in me. If I pay attention to my body so that my body is functioning and I'm taking care of it, then my higher self, the best version of myself, will be the operating programming that I'm working from. That's the best version. Because there are five things that I was once told.

There are five things, just to keep check of, which is like, and I'll probably forget them now, but don't do drugs, alcohol drugs, whatever, don't like spiritual practice, physicality, movement, relationship. This is in no particular order, by the way, relationship, and I'm not going to remember the last one, sorry. But I have these touchstones that I keep. But for me, it's like, I'm constantly trying to navigate the inside of my brain and focus. So I'm drawing things down.

So it's constantly condensing, condensing, condensing, condensing down to presence. So that formula for accessing your higher self, the real life that I can't remember the fifth year, it's probably something around service or work. Yes, service, right? Exactly. Work, career, service. It was, but the same. Everyone's like, what's the flip side of that way to access the best version of yourself? What comes up when you're not conscious of taking care of yourself in that way?

That maybe Hoffman kind of put a mirror up to. A frustration. You mean the flip, the negative? Yeah. The thing that I'm, the inverse. The inverse is, it's like frustration, I would say, from a very early age. Because sometimes I feel like if there's a window to my brain, I have to move the window, other people have just like, they can just go, but I'm like going and that's really frustrating. But what's the upside to that? In moving it, I'm seeing other things. You know what I mean?

I'm always trying to find the positive. And so where is the fear land for you now? I think it was like the show was about me and my practice about taking responsibility. Right? Like, if it gets so good at taking responsibility for myself, then you can start taking care, responsibility for all those other people. And people that just don't have the possibility, don't have either, they just don't have this lifetime, in this lifetime, haven't been given the opportunities. Right?

And so I think responsibility being taught to be super capable, being physically, and then trusting that, and just letting go, and just not caring, less caring about what other people think and say, and just like, let's go. And so the fear is around what would happen if you really didn't like going that way? Yeah, the fear is like, yeah, it's like, it's the usual things. It's all the usual things in arrows, right? People are going to throw at you for this, that and the other.

You know, trip you up along the way because you're not, you know, you're not, you haven't articulated that correctly. You haven't, you know, you've rambled on, you haven't, like, I think there's new ones, right? The amazing thing about a podcast, the amazing thing about sitting here is that there's subtlety in new ones to this level communication.

And if somebody actually bothers to take the time and watch this whole thing, they'll see the way your heart and communication and intellect has probed questions in me to allow my heart intellect and to do a dance, right? And hopefully they'll appreciate where my heart is coming from, right? But when things are put in writing, they get lost.

Yeah. So often things get put in writing and then the new ones and subtlety of what's being communicated at the time, I can say with all my hand in my heart, I just want this to be a loving and it'll be taken out of context. And he said this about her. Right. He did this, you know, it's like just so that you can, and that's what I mean about stepping out of your comfort zone, being brave because you know that's what's going to come around. And that's a control, like, that's a control.

And you have no, you can't control that. No. You can control what comes out of your mouth. And it doesn't matter. You can't control how people are going to interpret that or what they're going to do with that. And I think the other thing is that it doesn't matter. And actually, like, if somebody had said to me, if I'd had anyone to say to me, bro, you're good.

Early on, like when I was in, in some of that period of time where I was like, wait, super visible and it's okay, bro, you're going to make a mistake. But it's all right. You didn't have a mentor or some older person in your life who is. I was a caker with Cater in that. I didn't have, like, I didn't have, I didn't necessarily have a mentor who was going, no, no, I don't think I don't think I didn't have anyone. I don't know. By the way, it was a super unique circumstance.

I mean, like, how many other people like, you know, I think, right? No, not many people could even relate to what I was going. I mean, I was like, you know, I think when I got out of the car in Leicester Square, like here and I, when we were doing parts of Caribbean and Johnny wasn't there that time. So I guess I was the, it was like, she was like, he's like a one man boy band. It was crazy, bro. It was crazy at that time. It was bonkers.

Do people not understand about what that experience is like? That it creates a pattern of thinking or it creates an earwig or a, that you just, you're overwhelmed the whole time. You just overwhelmed the whole time. So when you're like, like, just when you see somebody coming at you and all they want to do is for you to go, hey, can I get a photo?

And you're like, but you're in this feeling of just like, you're just trying to get from A to B. You just want to get from A to B. You just want to, you got to swim across this, this field of sharks to get to this island so you can have lunch because you're overwhelmed, the feeling of being super overwhelmed by the visibility, by the self-worth. That's right. I think it comes back, am I enough, right?

And you see it, play out with all of these wonderful artists in the world who are just trying to do that thing. You know what I mean? All of these artists in the world, you know, my partner, people in the world, they're all just like trying to put this messaging out because they've been born with it, right? They've been born into it. And they don't quite know how to navigate all of it.

And there's a whole thing and there's a whole programming going, yeah, but you've got to have this, you've got to have it. And it's like, no, no, no, no, but just pull more love on it, pull more love on it. And that's what they're really trying to do at their essence. But at times, I think they're just so overwhelmed, you know? It's just like, it's like a bracelet on the skin. Yeah, it's bad, the age, the brain. And the brain isn't developed and it's too much attention.

And then it's like, I mean, you talked about the world being a simulation crash. You have to imagine like, it is a simulation. Why is everybody in the world responding to me in this way? Of course, that's going to fuck with you and make you crazy.

I mean, go and you'll, and unless you're lucky enough to have some, you know, be surrounded not with yes people who are financially invested in whatever you're doing, but like objective people who have your best interest at heart and aren't afraid to tell you what's what. You know, you're going to go sideways. I had a great, my manager was always so wonderful. And in a way, like, I didn't, you know, I stopped working there recently, not because I didn't love her.

And I do love her and I miss her. And I kind of like, I'm like, but because I needed to, like, fly, I needed to let go of, I needed to build something out because she had been this protector in some ways as well. And she was amazing. But I think, yeah, I think the real, it's an interesting, it's an interesting little pool to navigate. And I think my, I do have a great therapist and he gives me this analogy. It's like getting into a burning juggernaut, right?

It's like, you're getting, and everyone goes, oh my god, I like the fire. The juggernaut is going to explode. And everyone's like, wow. And then you just got us, you got to be able to go, okay, getting out now, guys, ssh, stouse me down, get me back, okay, am I good? Yeah, we're good, bro. You had the suit on, you're good, you can get out. And then, but I think for some people, they just think the burning juggernaut is the thing. But it's not. You got to be outside of that, right?

Like the burning juggernaut is the thing that you get paid to do for that 15 minutes, or whatever that may be, but you're going to be a natural, but then you got to get out. And then you got to go, okay, what are the things that I can do in my daily life that helped me to navigate it? I was 16 when I was learning how to cook pasta for myself and that and survive. So I know I know how to devute do that.

But like, you have to keep learning those things, because by the way, when you get older and you've got somebody who's making food or whatever, you put yourself in a position where, but it's like, so what are the things that keep bringing you back? The walk in nature, the bike, the, what are the things that just keep bringing you back to doing the work? Because if you're not doing the work, whatever that means for you, then it's going to come and bite you. Yeah. Right? And the work is the thing.

The work is the thing. But how does that mesh with somebody who's so prone to these heightened peak experiences, who experienced them to an extraordinary degree as a young person, right? Like you, you can't, as somebody who's going to always chase like, what's the next exciting thing? It's impossible to match like pirates and Lord of the Rings. But to remember them, it's about the work. You know what I mean?

And like, you're still doing the work and the work is the thing and you're really good at it and you're sharing your art and your craft and, you know, all of it. But it's a different thing now. I think it's like a canvas. And I think the canvas in this lifetime will come to an end when I drop this flesh, sad, you know what I mean? But until then, I'm painting a picture.

And I'm just going to keep going and if it's a dark purple because I've F something up or if it's a bright pink because I did the right thing. At the end of my life, I'll look at the canvas and go, cool, bra. Nice one. And then back, you know? But the colors of my canvas, I want to be just a whole bunch of pinks and yellows and palblos. I want the rich colors. I want that stuff. And if I don't mentally want it because I'm like, I don't want to deal with it. I actually do. I know I do.

History has taught me that I do. Circumstances have taught me that I do. So if I just keep, and then just keep doing it, just keep doing it. It's okay. This too shall pass. All of it. All those old adages, right? All of it. Idol hands, there's a devil's playground. You wonder like this simulation? Yeah. Somebody went like, you know, like, for this one end. Well, and the Buddhist idea of impermanence. Also. Yes. You know, it's all a sand, sand mandala that's, you know, blowing in the wind.

And we hear like this. Yeah. Like, you know, but the canvas that you're painting with edge, this TV show is different in that it's you. Is it the, is this the first thing you've done where it wasn't a character you're on screen, on script yourself? Totally. So it's not surprising that you have a heightened sense of like vulnerability. Yeah. I'm doing the show and now talking about the show and being out there and who you are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really like a lot. And I'm grateful.

But it's a lot. Yeah. It's been a lot in my head. Yeah. Who are the people that that inspire you? Like, who do you look to for guidance, counsel, in art, in life, in lifestyle and well-being? So I sacrificate it was at the top of the artist because it's just because that's been part of it. And I have like a cool group of like Buddha brothers who I just like refer to when I'm like, and I like David who introduced me. I love how he lives.

Celeste, who's this remarkable artist, founded the Trevor Project. Amazing. Celeste Lassine, my best friend Mark White who's like, kept me centred and give up who you see on the show. Like we have this little, so those are the people that I'd kind of like look at. It's a lot. It says a lot that your closest friends are the people that you grew up with that you've known for such a long time. I think I needed to choose family and I think I was fortunate. And I feel like it's very mystical.

I definitely feel it's very mystical. The same way that I still, Dysaku Okita was like, oh, I feel like these guys we've just found each other again in a way. That's how my brain works. I'm sorry if that doesn't work for you, but that's how it works for me. And I definitely feel that way. Because those boys, that team, then I think education was always a real challenge.

Up until I went to drama school where I felt like I got my first dose of real education because like I was like, metaphysiology was like the writings of, you know, the metaphysical poets like John Dahn or Milton and there. That language helped me to understand what I was reading. And you know, helped me to key into my imagination. Because otherwise I think I was just really like so. Yeah, like, you know, and then I'm a malgommation of all my own, you know.

There are books that I've read that like had an impact like at different times, but like I think I tried to keep coming back to that. Like the Dysaku Okita capsules. Because it's also like bite-sized and I can swallow it and it really resonates for me.

But you know, like I remember reading perfume by Patrick Saskyne, then it was like, wow, that was like, what a, you know, the journey that that character went on and the, or you know, I don't know, like I know it's Anne Ran, but the fountain head was like, you know, that was not like Dennis. She's like, some of the thinking in there. But you know, or, but there were, there was just lots of different at different times.

But because reading was such a struggle for me as well, you know, it's like listening is much easier. So now I get much more. Like listening to a podcast. Yeah, audio, audio is really hard. And like, you know, like there were so many experts on your show. It's like, I was like, that's, there's a whole, that gives hope. Does that give hope? Don't you sit in front of people and go, oh, there's hope. You know what gives me hope, the young people. Like I feel like. Alaborate.

Well, my son's 13 and I'm like, he doesn't want the things that he's like, I, I bought I'm a pair of Travis Scott sneakers and he's like, he's like, great, but he's not really attached to me left them behind. He didn't take him home with him. Do you know what I mean? Or they hopefully there's, they're not so driven by the need to consume, but experiencing the world and what's the best way to experience the world nature life, right? So what are we doing it? We're ruining it for them.

So they're going, you, we want to go and swim in that lake without having to wear like a wetsuit because the sun's going to, but or whatever. Like maybe the young people, once this old hopefully, you know, I don't not speak into anyone or anything, but like, you know, there's a lot of like, hopefully those young people are just going to be like and, and you know, sensei, they can't, okay, to always refer to the young people. There is something to that.

There's certainly a level of empathy and, and a kind of more purposeful meaning driven sensibility to, to hope Gen Z. Yeah. Like, it's not about like, like, I don't get the sense that they're all gunning to go work at Goldman Sachs. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's more important to have experiences and to, you know, find something that is giving back and gives them a sense of, you know, I don't know. No, I think it's a reaction. Yeah, it's a reactionary impulse. You know what I mean?

But to your point of like, earthly desires will be your teacher like, our example, good or bad is creating that, right? Whether it's reactive or influenced by matters less than the fact that it is happening. And I take, I take comfort in hoping that as well. Yeah. You know, that is interesting. And the young people, you know, historically always they, they get grief. They're, you know, what are they doing? Blah, blah, blah. But, you know, I see a lot of hope in the younger generation.

So you're, your, your son's 13, right? So he's just sort of coming online with what he's into and what he wants to be and what he wants to do, which is an exciting time. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. We barely even talked about like acting at all. And this is really about, you know, you and the show. But what is it about acting that gives your life meaning? Like what is it that you're channeling that feels resonant and important to you that keeps you coming back to it?

The opportunity to portray a character and hopefully shine a light on, with compassion on, on the experience of that character. And if you're doing it well, which I don't know that I've done sometimes, it's a bit hidden, but like, which is why I love doing it because I'm trying to get better all the time is, um, that you're shining a light, you know, Lear is a great one, right? You watch Ian McKellen do Lear and it's like, oh, you suddenly understand compassion when you see him do it.

The compassion of a broken human because we're all broken. We're all, you know, we're all lost looking for it, right?

So the opportunity in performing a character is like, oh, I'm going to get to shine a light on the psyche of this person, you know, and my job is just not to f that up and to really understand what the psyche of that character is and sometimes you get an amazing character to do that with and sometimes it's like, oh, character, well, I'll try and create something and fill that, fill in the blanks for that character.

But, you know, but I, I just keep throwing myself at everything and into it because, because it, so long as it's like resonates, you know, I feel like I'm going to learn something and like, you know, my cousin used to say when we go to see movies, like, there isn't a bad movie.

And something from all movies, you know, even the worst movies you learn something from like, that's done through that, you know, but like, you know, I'm, I don't think anyone in Devaz on an artistic, you know, exhibition, like creating a movie with the intention of making it bad. It's just, it's just so, it's just me. It's amazing any movie even gets made and that is not an actual miracle.

And by the way, with the event of AI, you know, you know, it was, what's it all going to look like 10 years from now? I don't know. I don't know. I think, I think the movie industry is very much in question right now. And it's trying to figure out a way forward. Like what does it, what does it mean? Where is it? Where is it's place? Yeah. Culture that is named there and Bobby can make sure they break out. They break out and they're incredible.

But by and large, like it isn't, we don't, you know, it's a good thing that we're not in a monoculture anymore. But there's something lost also when we don't all come together as a collective to enjoy a piece of art in the way that we did when we were kids. Yeah. That I have some nostalgia for, I think. Yeah, great. And it's not a gesture like, I don't know that any of this is good or bad. But I just think it's changed and it's continuing to change.

And I think that change is going to accelerate. I don't see AI upending movies per se for quite some time. It's really hard to imagine that as good as the technology could be. I think the first email which is yet to be, which we're still, and I'm, and I keep trying to think, what's that first move? What is that going to be? And whether, what do I, how much of that? Because it'll be interesting. But I'm like, you know, what is it going to look like?

Because at some point, you know, that it's, I was fortunate to hear Sam Altman speak on some of these issues at a conference. And he just said, and it was so interesting. So, you know, Flynn is not known a world without the internet, right? I grew up without the internet. I didn't have any of it. I'm a mobile fan, so we, you know, as we didn't have, my daughter is, is, is never going to understand a world without super intelligence. Super intelligence. And what does that, what does that do?

What does that mean? Because I'm like, what is that? What, how do you combat that? And he actually said something, which is what a secular caterer said. It's the, it's going to be about the inner revolution. And I think it's going to be about discipline.

Because I think it's going to be the people that learn how to say no to their spending 10 hours swiping or whatever you need to do on your phone, which I, or buying, or, but, the people who have the discipline to simplify, right, to come back to the basics, right? Perhaps those are the people that aren't the NPCs, as they're called, right, who are going to be the ones that move forward and actually have an impact. Because I think everybody's got the opportunity to have an impact.

It's just whether you know it or whether you were raised with the opportunity to understand that or whether, you know, your makeup has given you that, has posed that possibility for you. That's an interesting idea. It makes me think of, of, you know, how one comes up with a new idea. Like you have to sort of step outside the matrix and not be influenced or part of a certain kind of machine in order to see things differently and take a stand for a new idea. Right.

And super intelligence and the internet is sort of commandeering all of our attention all of the time. And the algorithms are dictating what we see and what we read and what we hear. I love my algorithm, by the way. Those algorithms start to program us, right? And then it becomes harder and harder to have an original idea. That's right. That's right. That's what is part of what Sam or maybe you are saying. Yeah, that's right.

And there are people that just are uniquely gifted at having a unique idea, by the way. Not everybody, we're all, you know, some people, I do think some people are born lucky than others, you know. There's not, I mean, certainly you can make a certain amount of your luck, but it depends how much work you're willing to do.

And I think that like we are being conditioned into thinking less work is more, but I think, you know, like that old adage, like we said about the idle hands-make for the devil's playground, because actually I think just getting up and moving some dirt or planting something or doing something physical, whatever it may be, there's such benefit to that, you know. And so what does that daily routine look like for you? I don't know. There's a routine, but it's like, there is. There's something.

I mean, it's, you know, if there's definitely a chance, there's definitely a, you know, a moving my body, trying to sweat, there's definitely, you know, getting into the sun and moving into nature, there is definitely, if I have the opportunity, you know, different times, and then I'm trying to vary it all up, you know, trying to mix it up, like so that my body doesn't expect the same things or my mind or my experience isn't the same.

So like, but I'm not much of, I'm not one for sitting down and around much, you know, I'm more like, you know, moving, so like I could keep learning to sit down and around more, maybe we'd study more would be good to add to my, what about the fitness piece? I mean, you're incredibly fit in the show. Thanks, pretty fit right now. I'm alright. I was at, what is that? Because I'm my back injury, a lot of it is like, you know, does that cause you pain to this day? Yeah, it does.

To a certain, not massively to be fair, actually not massively, but it just requires stabilizing my spine, right? You know, because the spine is a weird thing, right? Isn't it a little funny? You know, anyway, so yeah, just functional, functional work now. Like, I think, I just did this movie, which I, you know, I'm really proud of called the cut that I produced and it's going to come out, but I had to drop, it's a boxing movie, but the fight is making weight, like the cutting weight.

And I dropped from 185 pounds to 180, I'm 180 five, I'm about 180 weight now, I went to a 151. That's legit. And over how much, how long have the period of time? Two months, something like that. And it was, what was going on in my brain, the dehydration, because I was cutting water, I was like, I did, I threw everything at it to get to it. And the final thing, right, I was saying it 160-ish, 160 something for like weeks to the end.

And then this wonderful nutritionist, Philip Goldie, who like, had helped some great actors do their thing as well. He's in Santa Monica. He said, all right. He timed everything out, but he was like, now's the Epson salt bath. So I get into an Epson salt bath with 25 pounds of Epson salt in the bath. And I get into it, boiling hot up to my neck. And I'm like, I have videos, let me just like, which is what the fighters do actually. And I have, that's what we do in the movie as well.

So it's about cutting weight, cutting as a boxer. As a boxer. It's called the cut. It's about making weight. Paul Nellis directs it, John Tuturo, Katrina Balfe and myself. And then a wonderful cost, supporting axes. And we shot it for no money in London just like last summer. And it was, anyway, so I get out of this bath. He said, chug two bottles of water and like, really, I had people help me get into the bed. Because I, again, no barrier, no gatekeeper, push it super far.

Do you think the water get, I work up in the morning and I don't know, it's a arse muskis, but I dropped 10 pounds overnight. Wow. 10 pounds of water. And so it's just seeping out of your, your skin. This is why we have the video out on the photos. And I'm like, on the sodium in the middle. Wow. It was wild. 10 pounds overnight. Yeah. And that took me to one.

And then I was like, then I was living in this space just eating cucumber and tuna, cancer, tins of, like, because basically, and like hardly any water for like, until I got, so we started the movie. We filmed the end, the final scene is him like standing on the scales going. And making weight. And making weight. And there's a part to it which is, it's a slightly crazy thing that he does to get there finally. Because anyway, I won't spoil it, but it was wild.

Anyway, and I get, and he's like, so we started the movie at that point and then I had to put on weight as we went through. So the crazy thing was there's me going, wow, at different points I'm like, wow, 169 looks pretty good, bro. Or once, you know, and it's all really about male, you know, the male body to smoofy. I mean, you can, you can, you know, I mean, you can speak to this too. Like, it's like, we're so over overly aware of what we look like and stuff.

So part of it, part of the movie, we're all like that by the way. And I realize that everybody's got a decent decent disorder. You know what I mean? It's like the movie is about that. Male, the look at all of that stuff. Like, why do we do this to ourselves, right? I like to say it's because I want to improve the way I think can feel. So I'm eating from my brain now, right? Right. Which I think is convenient. That's convenient. Yeah. I like to do that. That's my, that's my ego.

What did it feel like when you were 151? Like there is a weird euphoria with that, right? It was the we, I mean, I mean, I was like paranoid. I was having paranoid attacks. I was totally like psyched the dehydration and everything. I was like, I had a real, I was really struggling. And I was open and vulnerable. I was like, I couldn't, I like, I literally sometimes was holding people to move around because I was so dehydrated as well.

I'd like, you know, I'd taken things to help with the dehydration. So I was like out, and my bones, like so bone, you know, like that was where my body was like, okay, where you haven't blood worked on and I'm sure you're medically supervised doing that. Some, some what? Yeah. Not what I got to England. I mean, that's, that's like machinist territory. Here I was. Here I was doing that movie, the machinist. Yeah. Well, a guy who I work with, yeah, he's worked with Christian Bell.

Not sure on that one, but he's worked with him bail on some stuff. Yeah. And he, you know, part of a really great performance when you actually put your body through that, we'll get that will what that's what we'll come of. Sure, because you're actually doing it. You're living it. You're living it. So obviously that's going to translate onto the screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every aspect of it. Yeah, that's very, that's, that's very method though too.

I guess you kind of have to, you're not, you're not going to be able to costume your way through that. I mean, no, and also like, you know, I wanted to burn the barn down on this one, you know, it's like I kind of had been developing it for years with this producer and, you know, getting to make it like we said is lightning in a ball and, you know, who knows? How do you choose your parts?

It's not like I get like, to be honest, I know what, like there was a period where I was just all top-to-all material and I'm getting sent and it's like, I don't know, I had a, I'm really great manager and a lot of it was like, can't see the word for the trees. There was things I looked back and I go, how did I miss on that? Because I remember that being on my path, but I didn't do that. Yeah. And I didn't do that. Why? I did this.

Okay. But that's, and you, so letting go, letting go, like everything is, so now it's like, I don't want to leave my family too much, but there's nowhere I'd rather be than on set. So I'm like, and I've, and I've, and I've, and I've, and have late, you know, I would say in the last few years, a lot of it has just been like, let's roll the dice, see what happens.

There's, there's variables here that don't add up, ordinarily, you know, like, and of course, there's the, there's, there's a very kind of low hanging fruit joke with your shell, right? Like, is this not just a big, you know, sort of mission impossible audition? Like, is there some one up, up, up some in ship for crews to, one thousand, feast his eyes on you. A hundred percent. Yeah. I don't know if he's done what he said. Yes, I don't think he has. He's done a lot of shit.

No, I don't know if he's done what he's told me though. But by the way, he is, I consider him to be the head of the arrow. He has been a movie stuff. Well, the stuff he's doing is the final of the movie. Yeah. And he is like, so like nothing but hats off, he produced a movie I did with Cameron Crow called Elizabeth Town and I have the utmost respect for them. But he, it is interesting because he does, he does it all, and he just does it all.

He just keeps, he keeps showing up and doing all of it. Yeah. I'm like, he's got no time for anybody one-offing him though. You know what I mean? I think he's not interesting. I don't think he's interested in having anyone come in and take over the mission. I think somebody told me. He's going to do it. Yeah, he's going to do it. He's going to, he's going to, he's going to, he's going to wing suit into a call in the next mission. That's what he's going to go out.

I think somebody told me that he, if he hadn't done it, which I think maybe, I don't know if he's done it, but I can't, I wouldn't, but I think, I think part of it was like, you don't see it on film in the same way. Like wing-suiting, it's hard to see, but it's the fastest, you're moving faster than anything. Right. And it's the fastest we can possibly move on aid without, you know, and you're, you know, you're cutting through the sky, but it doesn't, it doesn't, it's hard.

I don't know if you saw in the show because we went over water, so maybe you see it. Yeah. But it's, it's hard. You have that long lens shot where you can see the water moving beneath you really quickly, which helps you. Yes. And there's some other shots, but it's, it's hard to capture. Whereas skydiving, there's, you know, you can get like, yeah.

A bunch of guys with, who really know what they're doing in the air to catch you like that, you know, which he's done at epically, you know, and made a remarkable, you know, and, you know, the jumping and the, with the, with the bite, it was, I mean, I'd love to do that. I mean, imagine you're getting paid to it. And he loves it. He's for sure. He loves it. But he's sure. He's a, he, now, now, now there's a guy who's like an expert at everything. Well, he's been doing it for a very long time.

He's just. He's surrounded himself with an incredible team of people that facilitate and train him to be that guy. Yeah. And I, and I, and I have no, he fucking doesn't fucking, I mean, he, he, he, he goes all the way. Dude, he does. He's speaking your language on some level. Oh, yeah. We, we definitely had, I definitely, yeah. But as you said, the low-hanging fruit is, is this just a massive commercial dynamic? It's one giant franchise that I'm, by the way.

It's just one big audition tape, right? I mean, there is that aspect to it. In Hollywood. There is that aspect to it. But and probably in the back of my brain is a part of me, which is like, what have I got left to prove, you know, and what else do I, you know, but hopefully people will keep come back to the, to, to just the humanity of it. Because I think it's more about humanity. And I try to have that play throughout all the characters.

Sure. There's a sense of like, what am I, you know, I'm trying to prove to myself that I can do these things, that I can do hard things, be on the edge, learn something about myself. But fundamentally, the greater lesson that you're also trying to embrace is that you're already enough, dude. Right. Yeah. You deserve to be loved for exactly who you are right now. You don't have to go out and accomplish anything in order to be entitled to that. Well, I really hope that's the takeaway for everyone.

Yeah. They all go, I'm enough, you know what I mean? Because that's really, that's where it, that lands. And that's the, you know, and that's, but, you know, that's also, you know, that's also life. That's the trajectory. And I, and I love it. It's not like I'm not having a great time. I'm not not, you know, it's not like, I meant it when I said I'd never feel so alive when I'm at close to death.

It wasn't, you know, I wasn't, it was all these things, these thoughts and feelings as I blurbed, they all came out because I was like, you know, under these pressure cooker of feelings and emotions. I remember my, you know, I have this, I had this assistant, Lindsay, who became a producing partner because I worked with her so long as she's, and this is all she ever wanted to do, working this space. She's actually doing that with her husband now. And she, but I was like, I'll be screaming.

Why am I wearing this t-shirt? I was like trying to control. Like the only thing I could troll was what I was this t-shirt that I'm wearing. Why am I wearing this t-shirt? What's this? Is this the right one? You know, because there was like continuity to the show. I was overly focused on all these little things. You know what I mean? So that is, that's an aspect of my other thing, which is like- That's just your fear, like trying to hold on to something. Something, right?

Something, you know, like- In a situation in which you- Like, it's not you, it's me. It's not me, it's you. You know, it's that. Well, you did a great job. You know, maybe before we shut this down, any last thoughts about what you want people to take away from the experience that you had that you're sharing in the show or just in life from your path, this kind of extraordinary journey that you've been on. I think sometimes just pouring more love on it, because loving is the hardest thing.

Sometimes the most scary thing, the most vulnerable thing is just to keep loving. Just keep giving more love to self first so that you can give to others, but just pour more love on it. I think that's a pretty good way to end it. Cool. Thanks, man. Thanks, man. We did it. We did it, feel alright? Yeah, I'm like, I feel like I've just gone through the ringer and I've been overexposed myself and I'm going to just- You're in a supportive, loving environment. Yeah, I know.

We're here for you, but- I adore that. And thank you so much. I loved it, man. I love getting to know you a little bit. It was really cool. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Well, I love what you're doing and the messaging you put out there. I feel honored that like my little conversation will be up amongst some of those remarkable conversations that I've been listening to. There is an education in your show for everyone to have. I do. Try to. May come on. It's brilliant.

I'm like, that's the school a lot. And you- I mean, I mean it when I said, I'm really grateful for the call because you curate some remarkable fingers. Thanks, man. It's been cool to- I'm like, I'm going back now because I had to, you know. I got a 800 and some number of them for you. I know. Keep your dyslexic brain engaged. Exactly. Maybe that's my new school, the School of Rick Roll. All right. Well, come back whenever you feel like sharing a little bit more. Thanks, man. I appreciate you.

I think you've run me dry for a while. Right on. Peace. Peace. Peace. We're brought to you today by Element. Get your free Element Sample Pack with any drink mix purchase at drinklmt.com slash rich roll. We're brought to you today by On. Visit on.com slash rich roll and use code rich roll 10 at checkout to get 10% off your first purchase. That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation.

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