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Welcome back to TheRestisPolitics, US election livestream. I'm Alistair Campbell with a to come back for a second term in the way that he's done after losing. Rory. Yeah, I'll wait. So, so, so very quick explainer. The evening has actually gone much more quickly for those of you that are just tuning in than the people expected. Many people thought
because of 2020, more male votes coming and that this could drag on for days. It didn't, a bit like 2016, we're in a situation in which basically the race was over by about half past two in the morning, our time about half an hour ago. And it really finished at the point at which it became clear that Donald Trump had taken Pennsylvania. There was nearly an hour and a half of hanging around as the votes got towards 95, 96, 97 percent of the votes with him leading.
And the reason why on this graph that's showing 267 and he needs 270 to win but we're saying he's won is that it's almost inconceivable that they would not take Alaska. In fact, he's likely to take many more of the swing states. He could end up in a position stronger than he was
against Hillary Quentin in 2016. I'm presenting this all in a slightly cheery voice. I am profoundly shattered by the whole situation and what we've been talking about over the last two hours is that this will have incredible impacts on Russia, Ukraine, where we're likely to see support taken away from Zelensky and Putin increases position in Europe. We're likely to see huge consequences for American democracy, for the Supreme Court, Trump is a man who is threatening
mass deportations, who revenge against his enemies. It's been a profoundly unpleasant campaign. And the Democrats who I felt had learned a lot of lessons from 2016, had turned a lot of things around. Sadly, on the night, did not do enough to win. How are you going to handle this? I'm going to be a good sport. I've congratulated him in
Ilhan Musk on Twitter. I'm an American. I want the guy to succeed. If he's going in a direction that I think doesn't make sense for the country, I think I owe myself and my family to speak out about it. But what I don't want to do is I don't want to be this bitter guy. He won we lost and then we throw eggs into tomatoes at the television. He's got the mantle of the presidency again. Let's hope he succeeds. Let's hope people reach him and say, hey,
these systems are in place for a reason. He told John Kelly, why do we have the 20,000 troops at the DMZ? When Kelly explained it to him, he backed off a little bit. We got to get people in place around him to get them to back off some of the really tough, nonsensical things. These systems that have been put in place over the last 80 years in America have helped make the world safer, more prosperous, and freer. The stuff that he's talking about can potentially damage that
system. Who's happy tonight? Vladimir Putin. That should tell you everything you need to know. Victor Orban is happy. You think Kierstormer is happy tonight? He's thrilled that this happened. I think he's probably thinking, oh, it's quite a tough day in front of me. But anyway, Rina, how are you going to handle it? Well, I mean, I'll be plenty to write about. This is, I mean, as I, we've talked about all sorts of things tonight. I do think, I do find the
whole issue for women very, very difficult. And I find the idea, it's, to me, it's ridiculous that he's pushing ahead with this whole. And the whole abortion thing, particularly, I just, I kept thinking legally, how would I get around saying this? And I guess I would say that if he were a guest on this podcast now, I would say to him, how many, sorry, but how many abortions have you personally paid for? And you know what I'm sure he would reply none. I have paid for no women
to have abortions. And we would all have to make our judgments about that. But the fact that he, half of the things he has done, he doesn't believe in it, and you know he doesn't believe in it, it's very difficult if you're on the other side of those things to sit there and watch him, you know, continue to sort of dispoem himself in a way that you fundamentally know he doesn't believe. I'm hoping he'll just play a lot of golf, but then the people who might be around him, the project
2025, this might be even worse. He said that he's speech of Mar-a-Lago, Dominic, this will be remembered as the day the American people regain control of their country. Yeah, yeah, we've got our country back. It's what populists often say when they win, of course. I think the interesting question obviously is not just what he does, what happens to the world, but his opponents have to do
some really serious thinking. I was thinking about this moment in the break. The Democrats have spent a lot of time talking about mega voters, but maybe next time they should think about talking more explicitly to them. And actually saying to them, this is what Peter Arden has been saying. Your resentment, your anxieties, you shouldn't be ashamed of them. We will make you feel more secure, happier, more prosper. We have the answers. We can deliver for you the world that you want in a
way that Trump cannot. The problem is of course, and the reason why populism is taking off in Europe, is that it's really difficult to deliver. Demographies against us, economic facts are against us, productivity has been stagnant, media wages have been stagnant. And really since about 2006, GDP per capita has not been going up in most of these countries. And so the problem is that you are
talking to people who's economic condition suck. Many of the people voting for Trump, if you were somebody who was born in the 1950s, you will remember earning $15 now working in Michigan, in an automobile factory in the late 1970s, your daughter is now earning $15 now working in war months. So, war months. So, this is a really tough world. And I think the problem for the Democrats says, yes, they can do inflation reduction acts. They can try to move some industry
back. But the idea that they can recreate what Trump is pretending, which is back to the world of the 50s and 60s, where GDP per capita is growing by 3.2% a year. The glory day is of the great booming American economy. It's not doable. I agree with that, Rory. I agree that a lot of those jobs are never coming back. But I think it's not just economics. I think often what some of these people
are so called left behind voters want is they want to feel respected. I think that's a, that's Clinton, for example, made them feel that there was somebody who understood them, who spoke like them, who shared some of their values. Trump clearly sends people a message that he understands them, that he's one of them, that he knows what's going on in their heads. And maybe the argument is that somebody like Eric Linsman or Kamala Harris doesn't, doesn't give them that sense.
What, how do you handle that? This is what we're talking to Peter Hainan about, that he's doing this project on how progressives can tackle populism. I get that. Bill Clinton was brilliant at it. That's why I think he's such a formidable politician. He could speak to those people. But he didn't, he didn't go out to people who were racist and say, I applaud your racism. I mean, that's what I feel is the really hard bit of this. And by the way, just like with you, the Nazi thing, I'm not saying
all the people who voted for the Trump are racists. But I think that a lot of those who are racist are more likely to have voted for Trump than not. So I guess the question that I think the Democrats really have to work through is how do they do what you're saying without having to go and play, you're saying, what are you saying earlier, play the same game? Yes, a tough one, isn't it? I mean, you basically tried to, there's clearly an element of the MAGA coalition that they will never reach
and they maybe wouldn't want to reach. But they must believe, if they want to be a truly national party and a winning party, they must believe that there's a segment of that Trump coalition
that they can take in the future that they can turn, that they can convert. They certainly must believe that the one in three ethnic minority voters who voted for Trump, they can shortly feel, you know, they must be able to see the irony in the fact that the more sort of lefty or woke or whatever and you want to call it, that they've got the more of those people they've lost. Or women who voted for Trump? Yeah. Go ahead and say that we were talking
earlier about who'd be the first leader that he might vote. We still don't know that, but the first leader who's officially recognised the win and congratulated Donald Trump is Benjamin Netanyahu. Because it histories, here's one for you, Dominic, history's greatest comeback. Your historic return to the White House offers a new beginning for America and a powerful recommitment to the greater alliance between Israel and America. This is a huge victory. Yeah, so let's ask you a question.
Yes, we do. So when the Brexit happened, it was a very large group of people in the UK that said, yeah, this is great. We had the Brexit. How long did, or maybe it didn't happen, but I think it sort of has at this point, how long did it take for people to realise, whoa, this is probably not an arreconomic interest? Or did that never happen?
The poll suggests at the moment that the majority of people in Britain now think that Brexit isn't working for them, but that isn't the same as people wanting to rerun the election. And many of the things that Dominic said will still be true of those voters. They will still feel patronised, excluded, that Britain isn't working for them. They are listened to, and that this isn't a country they have mistaken. I just wanted to follow up on this interesting point,
Alice's Raste. The extent to which Gaza has become very important to these elections. Now, Trump's victory has been very, very considerable, but he's been helped by the fact that there has been some interesting articles in New York Times about 440,000 Jewish voters in
Pennsylvania, who felt Trump was much, much stronger on Israel. And paradoxically, Kamala Harris was hit in Dearborn, Michigan from the other side, where Jill Stein seems to have taken about 22% of any Michigan one of the key swing states, because Arab Americans were very uncomfortable with Kamala Harris's position on Gaza. So I think this is something that we will see playing cross. One more final thing. This is a body to the way the world will view America. Do not underestimate
this. I mean, people like me who were betting hard on Kamala Harris are betting on our sense of hope for America. Essentially, I'm saying I believe in this country. They are not going to repeat the mistake they made in 2016. This man is a clear monster, and in the end, the good sense of the American people will prevail. The decision of America to vote again for Donald Trump just feeds into the narrative of so many people around the world that this country is in trouble.
The, just a couple of, I agree on that. You've got eight years of data after that first election, and we're here now. Tell us just something about the country. This is my own. Marina, I don't want to tell you even more, but Trump also said that Robert F. Kennedy is going to help make America healthy again. Certainly, what that means. Does it mean that the fluoride is coming out of the water, because that was one of the, supposedly, that was one of the late-on-vail policies this last week.
You've always thought that these kind of third candidates have been part of the kind of magazine, the ban and plot, particularly RFK. I didn't think. I know. That was part of it. I saw he had, you know, not insignificant support. You then came up with Trump. I mean, there's no single thing that won the election for Trump, but that must have helped. No question. No question. And the Republicans do it better than the Democrats. The Democrats would never put up an all-right
candidate to steal votes away from Trump. Look at what Nader did to our goers. We've talked about Jill Stein that a number on Hillary Clinton. Jill Stein looks like she did a number on Vice President Harris. They're running the same playbook. You know, the other thing, you guys probably remember Cambridge Analytica. Certainly do. Okay. And so Cambridge Analytica, someone's going to study what Musk did, because they didn't have Cambridge Analytica in 2020. They lost the election to Biden.
But they did have Elon Musk, and they did have access to the $44 billion musical instrument known as X, where they were playing notes out into the marketplace. And it worked for them. I don't know if there's a pun in here. Emmanuel Macron, the person that really always calls your friend, Emmanuel Macron. He said, congratulations, President Donald Trump. Ready to work together as we did for four years with your convictions and mine, with respect and ambition for more peace and
prosperity. I think the use of the word convictions is probably a lot of fun work in French. Conviction, yeah. Really? Listen, I think Macron speaks very, very good English. Right. I think we're doing an unknown word conviction meant that. I noticed Adam Biancoff has put, well, he certainly got some convictions. Listen, we haven't talked, we haven't talked at all tonight, really, which is extraordinary thing about the climate. What do we think this means for the climate crisis?
I was talking to a, I actually was the other week, and I was with a marine biologist, and we were talking about the election. She's American. She worked for the government. She was like, I can't. We were banned from using the term, she's a marine biologist at a very senior government level. They were banned from using the term climate change in the department, and she said, I can't go back to that. I can't, I just can't get
that level of reality denial. I can't deal with it, but it seems that she will be going back to it. Yeah, it's international cooperation on climate change is going to be very, very difficult. I mean, frankly, impossible in the next four years. How well, how different the world would have been, if we hadn't had the hanging chads drama and Al Goread? Well, how different the world would have been if in 2016 Joe Biden had run against Donald Trump,
because I think Joe Biden would have won in 2016. I think so. I was very close. I mean, it was close as it was in terms of there. There was a few votes that swung it. So if Biden had won in 2016, you know, Trumpism, the roots of Trumpism would still be there. The resentment, the anxiety, all of those things, but the character, the main character would have been beaten.
So climate is absolutely central. US is 13.5% of all global emissions, but more than that, the US is absolutely central to all these sorts of international cooperation. Climate is probably the most important example, but it's also true on international security. It's true on the Middle East peace process. It's true on Sudan. It's true on Russia Ukraine. It's true on China Taiwan. Trump is fundamentally an isolationist. He doesn't give a monkeys about
what's happening around the rest of the world, hence make America great again. For climate, this can quite easily put the entire move back four years or more. We can expect him to be drilling more, extracting more coal, investing less than renewable energies and green technology, putting less subsidies behind all this stuff. Once the US starts doing that, what incentive has China, which has got 30% of global emissions, and India, which has got 7% of global emissions,
ready to go along with this stuff? We have to hope they will, but why? We get ready to do your final NordVPN of this session, but I just want to read out what Kierstarm has said. Congratulations, President-elect. Trump, on your historic election victory, I look forward to working with you in the years ahead. As the closest of allies, we stand shoulder to shoulder
in defense of our shared values of freedom, democracy and enterprise. From growth and security to innovation and tech, I know that the UK, US special relationship will continue to prosper on both sides of the Atlantic for years to come. So what do you think of that, Marina, is a piece of writing, a piece of drafting, a piece of diplomacy? Well, I mean it's quite bland, isn't it? It's less obviously funny than Macron.
It's longer, so it's trying to say less. I mean they've all got to do this now. They've all got to do this, they've all got to pretend and they've all got to be asked about their previous comments and say, yeah, you know, I was, you know, being, I don't know what they say. What do you say if you said something was a Nazi? What do you think? David Lamy? I actually think David Lamy is doing a pretty good job as a front secretary. I think he's been a big part of trying to get close to
Trump, but do you think that becomes a problem that dissentifies him? Anthony's view is that provided you've been the knee, you can say whatever you want, provided you then humiliate yourself and for not ill forgive you. That's all you got to do. If Trady Ansking can get away. All your America's Hitler, I love you now, no problem. But now you're in the woodcut.
Yeah, but you're in the woodcut. He's going to go on, they all go on to the woodcut, eventually, but the thing about Mosk is it's so interesting to me because he's so brilliant and so successful in so many different ways, but he got snubbed by Biden and he got snubbed by the administration. And by the way, he voted for Biden. Okay, he told everybody I'm a lifelong Democrat, I voted for Biden. I would love to get, excuse me, President Biden, why did you snub Mosk? You didn't invite him to
the electric car summit. You didn't invite him to the rocketry summit. What was the deal with snubbing him? Also, she could have made a move to talk to him. She elected not to do that. So, look at what are you actually doing? You know, you're talking to Liz Cheney. How could you not pick up the phone and call you on Mosk? Marie, you're final. Absolutely right. A huge thank you to NordVPN, who have made this amazing
livestream, which I hope you've all been watching for many, many hours possible. NordVPN is something that you can put it's an app you can put on your phone or your laptop. And it protects you from malware, from unsafe websites, from viruses, from attacks, from people surveilling your data on the internet. It's a great thing to travel with if you're opening up your laptop in an airport. It's something that you can sign up to and get the best discounts available on NordVPN.com.
Slash, rest is politics. I'm going to use that as my sneaky attempt to just get into this debate for a second. Just before you do that, can I just do a last shout out please for questions? We'll take a few more questions for the end of this second of our livestreams. We've got another one later on. And remember, you're just going to chat on YouTube or hashtag trip live. Terri, so given we're on technology, given we're on Elon Musk. AI policy.
Elon Musk is profoundly skeptical about the direction that artificial intelligence is going in. He's very, very angry. He funded chat GBT and then it's set off in direction. He's the main signatory and initiator of a lesser calling for much more restrictions on the development of artificial intelligence. And so him being close to Trump and getting in will be seen by Microsoft, by Google, by Facebook and others who are pushing ahead with AI as a real threat to the business model
that's trying to develop. No, we're going to be bright. Go to bright, but no, you've got very strong views on this. Yeah, I think it's the beginning of an oligarchy. I think they've decided that Trump is their guy. He's a transactionalist and we can get things from him and we're heading for a trillion dollars each. One of the ways to do that is to siphon it off of a government. You're not getting to a trillion dollars on private enterprise, but if you can can join yourself
with the government, you might be able to do that. And they've looked at other oligarchies around the world and they like it. And these guys are from South Africa, so they're used to it. They don't, it's not like they were raised in America. They're used to it. One thing about Reagan, and it's in Max Boots, but he had a Washingtonian sense for departure. He was there to serve. He did his eight years. They wanted to cut brush and sand a barber. And he left.
Okay, and what did Washington say? He cited general sense and at us. So I'm going home. I don't need this. And I'm not going to make my kids some aristocrats. That's not what America is supposed to be. Trump wants that. He's been very, very clear about that. We're going to go to a quick break. And when we come back, I think we should talk about race. I think we should talk about the role of race in this debate where we are on race in American
society. So don't go away. We may be wilting a little bit, but a lot of you, presumably just had a very nice sleep when you're getting up to face this extraordinary news that Donald Trump is going back to the White House. See you soon. Welcome back. We're always eating. Not on our own. And he doesn't like it. I don't like it.
It's the crunchiness. Yeah. But more serious things have happened. Donald Trump has just become putting his face up and I'm trying so hard to contain what I'm actually thinking, feeling inside and project a sense of balance and etc. That could be the straw. That could be the thing that suits me over here. Now listen, we got half an hour to go in this, the second of these three live
streams that we're doing. Just a couple of points on the scale of this. The Trump's performance in Iowa, where there was this poll at the weekend that got the Democrats very excited, looks such a strong for any candidate in the state since 1972. In Ohio, it's the best of any candidate since 1988. That poll that I mentioned was out by 17 point. And that's the results of the great survey that you shared us all up. You're going to get scattered over the city of the mind like
she feared. And Trump's performance in Florida is the best for any candidate since 1988. So there's no getting away from it. This is an incredible political succumbac success story, called it what you will. And even though we can all say as we do the whole time, the guys that lie, the guys are racist, the guys are misogynist, etc. It is an incredible thing that he's pulled off here. So I think I just like this is something Anthony and I'm talking about just during the quick break.
I think all of us with the exception of Dominic need to sort of reflect a little bit. Well, what did we get wrong about the whole? What did we get wrong? I think Peter Heiminggaard's interesting insights into this and it goes to what Dominic was saying about maybe being a bit patronizing because we don't think a certain way we can't understand by other people. But
what do you think we got wrong? Well, I mean, I got it totally wrong. I thought Kamala Harris would win and I believe she would win comfortably and I thought it would be over quite quickly. Despite the polls showing 50-50, why? Well, I can repeat my arguments. They were technical arguments about young African-American voters and how they would turn out her ground game, the money, the performance of Biden's administration. It's all turned out to be wrong,
completely wrong. I don't think though that I was fundamentally wrong because I'm patronizing towards people. I never felt that. I never felt that as a politician in Britain. I didn't feel I was patronizing towards my breaks of voting constituents. I think I was wrong because I'm an optimist and I hate the idea of being right pessimistically. I think you can be a false prophet and right. You can align yourself with the worst instincts of humanity. You can assume that everything's
going to hell in the hand. I said, or you can hope. My bet on Kamala Harris was a bet on the American people. It was a bet on the board democracy. It was a bet against populism and it was a bet on hope. So are we wrong to think that that can work? That's the really difficult thing that this sort of confronts us with. It's so difficult because of course, I felt in a very minor way in Britain seeing Boris Johnson take over. This just proves everything that I feared. The bad people
went and populism triumphs. I spent a long time trying to pull myself together and see moments of light and inspiration. You've just written a book inspiring young people to get involved in politics. We have to believe that the Middle East peace process can still be solved. The two-state solution is possible that peace can come out of the world and the world can get back under a better trajectory. Tonight is a very, very devastating body. This is 25% of the global economy.
This is the world's largest, oldest, most mature democracy that has just faded for a multiple convicted fellow. Answering your own question, what do you think you got wrong? Well, I get... You told me. When we introduced a nutpocus, you said, I guarantee Donald Trump will let me be president again. You're wrong. Well, I got wrong. It's competition for sure. I thought Biden was up to the job. He wasn't and they didn't give her enough time. So I got that wrong for
sure. The second thing that I got wrong is that I didn't understand Trump's hold on these people because I thought there was a breaking point. My dad had a great expression. He was a construction worker. Here's a rock. You hit it one time. It doesn't break. 500 times. It doesn't break. You hit it the one thousand times. It splinters into a million pieces. You don't know which one of those things broke the rock. And I thought, okay, Trump is just too much that he's doing. That's wrong.
It was too much that he's doing this un-American. The rock is going to shatter. I actually thought the Puerto Rican moment was a potential sign of the rock shattering. So I got that wrong. But the last thing that I'm worried about, and this is something, hopefully, domicile address, do we have to break the world in order to fix it again? Because we broke the world in 14 to 17 or 14 to 19. We had a terrible treaty. We went back to war 20 years later. We broke the world again.
We came out of 45 with the right treaties and the right architecture. And I'm just wondering now, is it going to be in a situation where the world has to break again in order to enjoy people and get it fixed? That's a pretty terrifying thought. The world might break in because we don't address the climate crisis or because we don't address the refugee crisis, etc.
I mean, what do you think we got wrong? I think I said something about me because I have honestly spent like 18 months, two years, saying to my husband, pretty much every single day, he's going to win. This is all just a huge cope. This idea that she's like selling joy. I mean, show me an election that's ever been won like that. I would say that. 1997 Labour. Okay. I think it could only get better. Okay. And I said this and honestly, last three days, maybe I parted as an media and there's
something about that. I'm making sort of a slight joke about the fact that I watch CNN and it just seems to be like a proxy for the Harris campaign. And there is something about America's news market being so completely so I am making a slight serious point. And I fell for it. You know, I fell for thinking, oh, yeah, maybe I'm not, you know, and I didn't look aside and I thought his campaign has been chaotic in the final days and hers is sort of on message and she
hasn't made any mistakes. And I actually failed to trust my instinct of sort of eight and I don't know why I failed to trust my instinct of 18 months, two years. Yeah. Do you know what, don't let you say earlier and I was saying to the team and to read earlier about when I went on Morning Joe on MSNBC the other day. And I came away, it actually was a moment where I came away thinking we're just in a ridiculous world because it was, you know, they're obviously
very good journalists and lots of, but one, there was no real news being told. It was just endless ventilations of the same opinions about how awful Trump was, about how awful Vance was. And of course, then you go to the other side and you turn on Fox News and they're doing the opposite.
And I do think that this I was asking you later, I walked the late, early, what the legacy media, how they handle this because I think that the, I don't see how we get sort of sensible rational democratic debate if the media just become extensions of the players that the public are meant to be looking at to make a choice. It's all, it's all partisan. There are ever onto a relatively small player. Nobody's got more than 25% and they're all very polarized. Whereas
in the UK, the BBC 60% of people consume some form of BBC News in a week. You know, you would re, people say, oh, if the BBC hadn't been invented, you would never invent it now. Oh my God, now's the best time to invent something like that where you can slightly return to some form of shared objective reality. And I know people will have criticisms of the BBC and all sorts of things like that. But this is, have a look at this news market. Absolutely.
And also, can I say, I know Anthony is, spends a lot of time with Katty Kay or the rest of his policies, US, but this is also the time where the BBC should be investing in developing a bigger market here because it's what it opened for the sort of journalism they do. Instead, it was again rid of hard talk and cutting the budgets, etc. Dominic. So what do you, you, you, you as the person who got it right, what do you think we got wrong, Dominic?
So it goes to something that I often think about politics, which is that people who are very, I mean, you do a politics podcast as does Anthony. I think the one thing that people who are very interested in politics get wrong about politics more than anything else is that most ordinary people are not interested in politics. Do not follow it. Do not care. Do not understand. Or do not care to understand. I'm not saying they're incapable of understanding, but they don't choose to follow
and to immerse themselves in the minutiae. So all the things that we kind of offer before we recorded this were saying this will do for Trump. This will kill him. You know, all these, a lot of people don't know about those things or don't care. And as far as I can tell from the exit polls, the single biggest issue for people was the issue that is almost always the single biggest issue in every election, not just in America, but everywhere in the West. Well, which is the economy.
Are you better off? And I think the inflation a couple of years ago clearly really hurts the Democrats because Harris was tarnished by that. So all the things that we think should have destroyed Trump, Puerto Rico, garbage, blah, blah, blah. A lot of people probably weren't even aware of those things. I think at any given moment most of all these news channels were talking about it for 24 hours. Right. Because most people aren't watching those. They have lives. They're out doing,
yeah. I think that's the one thing. I always think this about all political history. It's the one thing that people get most wrong because people who write the history care about politics. Because it isn't. What are Tony Blair's absolute pieces of genius as a politician is he understood that all the time and always used to say to us, you lot need to understand people are there aren't thinking about us the whole time when they do think about us, but they've got to be thinking about us
on our terms, not our opponents. I said it before the break, talk about race. Manning, what do you think this says about race in the US? If he goes through with some of the stuff that he's talked about, how difficult has that become and where are we on race relations in the US? Well, some of the things that they want to do is they want to make the democracy less
of a democracy. If you read the Constitution in Russia, it's very flowery language, the North Korean Constitution says similar things related to the rights that the British have or the Americans have, but they just change the rules. They've made it so that one person has more power than the other people. He wants that and they'll be spending time figuring out a way to do that and with that,
there's a big question of race because the country is changing. When we get to 2044, there'll be less white people in the country than other people. It's a little bit more like a theory. They'll be fewer white people. The guy brings me on the thing for eight hours. I say one time syllable of key and he's like a verbal proofreader at the guy. But on the point that I'm making, these people will be like, yeah, we're
going to have a democracy, but we're going to make sure the white people run the thing. I know you guys think I'm crazy, but when it starts to happen, remember all the writings that Churchill did in the 30s and people say, he's crazy, he's crazy, he's crazy and everything started to happen. And then people looked around and said, oh, okay, he may be on to something in terms of what these things are. Because if you study history, guys like Trump, the stuff ends badly.
It starts out like this and the market's rallying. We're not doing it. We don't talk about the markets on the show. It's not the rest of the money, but the Dow is up a thousand. Bitcoin's at an all-time high. Small cap stocks are through the moon. Whatever Elon Musk's private equity valuation of SpaceX, yesterday it's got to be up 20% today. So we should take Trump more at his word. He's just said in his speech, his acceptance speech in the verdict commas that he's
going to change things and he's going to change things fast. And he's on the record saying what he wants to do. Right, he wants to do mass deportation of immigrants. He wants to fix Russia, Ukraine, in one day, which basically means giving Kiev to a Putin puppet. He does not want to do anything support women's reproductive rights. If anything, he's trying to empower people who are trying to make it more difficult for women to have any control of their bodies. And that's just the beginning
of where he's going. Right? So I think all of this stuff, Project 2025, that reforms the civil service, the stuff he wants to do with the Supreme Supreme Court, but basically here's total contempt for the root of law, for due process, for American democracy, for international alliances, for the liberal global order, all of this stuff we should now expect. And I don't think we should get into this complacent world, which you can often get into, saying, oh, well, maybe he's just
going to be laid back, put good people around him, and we'll all be fine. I think he's had four years to think about it. He's impatient. He wants to make his mark on history. Look at that. Trump, God spared my life for a reason. Let's do a few of your questions. And by the way, thank you to all the people who stayed up with us through the night. Thank you for all the amazing questions. I'm sorry we've not been able to do them all, but let's take a few more. You're welcome, Alster.
Thank you for thanking me. I'll thank you later, but I don't know, taking you for a nice meal or whatever. Just work on the extra edition tree. Don't worry. You're going to be fine. Is that Jude and Joanne? Jude and question for Dominic. Are these extraordinary times, or is this just another turbulent time in history full of them? They're not extraordinary times. History is always turbulent. I mean, which point period do you, there are very rare moments, the 1990s? Yeah. I guess.
But I mean, we only think that because the 1990s were kind to us. You don't think that you're a wanderer or your Bosnian. Well, Russian. Yeah. You think the 1990s were a total catastrophe. There are 50s, obviously, but again, you think that if you're British and American, but not if you live elsewhere. So history is full of... History is the story of chaos. Next question. William Chong. Can Biden do anything now as a kind of lame duck to do something to
have Euro-Rushthrus? He said violently. I think he's the lamest of lame ducks. Now it's a catastrophe. It's it's bad being a president of election. It's unbelievably bad if you're Biden with Trump coming in. But if you're vice president, is the candidate? Yeah. Biden helped Trump on the transition. Does Biden show up at the inauguration? Yeah. And does Trump pay any attention to the advice he gives him on the transition? Yeah. Actually, ignore that. I mean, he ignored everything that Obama did.
Repair to me. Marina, somewhere in Washington, presumably in the White House, Joe Biden and Jill Biden watching the TV and... Very angry. What do you think will be? The talk is that they're very angry and they've been angry all the way through. And they think that this wouldn't have happened with him. And as we said earlier, I don't believe that. As you say, he is a double-named duck. He's already not really the president because he's
withdrawn. And now he, Trump is coming and his vice president hasn't won. So I think it's quite hard to think what he could do that would be irreversible now in this period of time. I honestly can't conceive of something. It's just too late. Or are you in the morning? He's not a lame duck. He's a duck with no legs. Yeah. Oh. Okay. It's very harsh images. I feel so sorry, friend. But I mean, I do think he had to go. Let's take another question. Ha, Hallis Baker. What does Kamala do now?
Which has to stay as vice president. That's the certified election. Yeah. Yeah. She has to be the one sitting there saying Donald Trump is due to the elected. That's going to be a hard moment. My God. But does she have a political future? Could she run for governor of California, let's say? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the question is whether you'd want to. I mean, I think there's something very interesting about the psychology of defeat. Donald Trump could easily have said the election
was stolen, but hey, well, let somebody else do. I'll go and play golf. I'll go and make my do whatever. He came back. She could. It depends whether some people just take the feet and go away. Other people take the feet and think, right, I'm going to pop politics. I don't know what's said. There's almost love out there for her. I mean, you know, like as in political love and everyone's like, this is crushing. This is terrible. I think a lot of people will feel crushed tonight.
Yeah, no, I think that I think I think tonight, I don't think that they feel that there's a huge amount of love for her and she should be. I feel proud of Marina, but how do I look? You look sensational. You might like to be queen and pep beyond. Yes, exactly. It's the first thing. But no, but I don't get the sense they would, you know, think this is so awful. What happened to her? We want to return her somewhere and give her a governorship. No, but they don't, but they almost
don't need to. I mean, remember Biden lost repeatedly. And I ultimately became president. People wrote him off again and again. I mean, he was like an embarrassment to the 1980s when he was John. I think it's different times. Yeah. And but you're point earlier, Marina, I saw this. I think she's been subject just in pretty extraordinary double standards. You know, the debate, she absolutely trammed him. But if you think of some of the things that Trump has said and done
in recent days and weeks, I mean, just take one. Do you know what? If I talk about Trump, I start to do that. This is how it gets in your brain. You know, the thing with the microphone. Did you see the microphone thing? You were in Australia. Well, I know how to put this politely, but the microphone wasn't working as well as when it was rallies. And he essentially was sort of, it looked like he was performing oral sex on the on the microphone. It's the imaginative
counter of Joe Biden had done that. But he's, this is where he is unique. He gets away with stuff that no other politician on that. Because that has priced in. And this is a comparison with your favorite politician, Boris Johnson, when these things are kind of priced in. Then, the two Americans, do you get, you don't get ironies, but do you get the ironies out? Yeah. Well, I'm still working on the other insult related. I remember the person was too sad less. I got fewer. Yeah.
Bro, do this. Do you, I mean, I got to listen more carefully to your podcast. I see, do this the verbal proof really? Yeah, yeah, he does. I love it. I do. I do. You and I knew the talk about problems. I have it on high speed. Maybe you should do a podcast the rest of the way we should do it. We should. We should take on some of those really good history. Yeah, we could do that. Yeah, I think we could. We'd welcome the competition.
Oh, yeah, yeah. I was, I was, so you know what, though, I'm going to say something. I think she and Doug M. Off, they set sail and she moves the Brentwood and she hangs out in LA. He returns to her as well, right? That's why I get you think you think she doesn't have she doesn't want to stay right. I don't I don't see the bad. Then I guess the question for Marina is, did she hurt the cause for women presidential candidates? We've now over two. Oh, for the Democrats, yes. Yes.
And the last eight, I mean, we were talking earlier. We were saying that the Republicans will have a woman before the Democrats for definite. Just as in the sub-depot in the UK, they have had several and Labour have had none. But it's, I find it very difficult. She, she didn't really put a filth wrong and you can say, as you said, you know, you can't add what, what was your expression about what God had given you couldn't add? You can't put into somebody
with God left out. She's again, she, I mean, you know, it's ridiculous to sit here saying she did her best. She did whatever. But I think you have to say that it's pretty sexist and there's a lot of sexism in this country. And I know you've said that before. So I feel I'm slightly covered by saying that. But I think you've seen it again. Of course there is. Anthony, your final, final saly read is upon you. Oh my God. Please. Here.
Okay, guys. This is Supermports of Please Listen Up. Sally, thank you, Sally, for Sponsor Gus tonight. Eight hours with me, Alistair, Rory, Marina and Dominic. God bless everybody. But it's more important you listen to me about Sally. It's a digital version of a SIM card. You can download it on your phone and you can roam the earth without roaming charges. Imagine that all the money that you save with Sally. If you go to our website and this would be saley.com,
slash trip US, you get a 15% discount to store your journey with Sally. And I'm going to tell you something. You travel around the world and you've been making phone calls to people and you'd be very smug about the savings. And Alistair and I are quite cheap and we're enjoying it. Speak you though. I'm just speaking myself. I travel in coach from Glasgow to London. I just want to make sure everybody knows that. Never seen anything like it.
I'm really you said that I'm an ambitious new old reach, new Yorker. You said this is a limousine. You said here, here's Starber, Claire Laws, I've just got Anthony Albanese from Australia, friend of mine Australia sent me here. And it's all the same themes. It's even a bit longer. And you know, this is what you're going to do and then you're going to try and get the phone call and so forth. Now we're coming to the, excuse me, we're coming to the end of this and some of you,
you're leading on you. I am. I'm going to do the whole thing. I'm going to get a plane back to Britain. Okay. Dominic, you stay for later or you. I've got to write a restless history show because we're going to live tour. So people have enjoyed this. Yeah. And they want to connect Australia. Hold on. I'm going to go to New York, Philadelphia, Australia, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Chicago. Come in here Dominic, be right about history.
Yeah. As it's right to see. I feel like he was the LA Dodgers tonight. If you don't mind me saying so. I feel like I was like the New York Yankees. I mean, I lost that. Yeah, what does that mean? LA Dodgers are the World Series champions. Come on. The Dodgers competed against the Yankees. There's two final teams. Yankees lost miserably. But I think you hit it out of the park tonight. You nailed a lot of the things that were happening in the country. And either I chose to ignore it or
I hit an override switch because I was too close to the blast zone. I was one of the 40 people that were in that situation with them. And so how terrible it was. And I said, you know, it's important for me to just get that surgeon general's warning label out. But you saw it. I didn't. Oh, yeah. What team is Marina? She's the realist. She's like the she's she's the she was she was she was wincing at the thought of his victory. But in her her her heart told her she wanted Harris to win.
But her mind told her it was Trump. She's the realist at the table. And it's not even worth trying. You you're the headmaster. I mean, let's just face it. Okay. I mean, you know, you're just whacking us all over the stick. And Rory is the disillusionist. If you don't mind me saying so. The dissolutionist. Yes. He was disillusioned with this idea that Trump was going to lose. And Harris was going to win. And we just have to own that. You know, I think I think it's better for us as
analysts and pundits to recognize that we got certain things. You don't think you got it wrong. I got it totally wrong. I got it totally wrong. But on the other hand, I'm sort of weirdly, I'm so devastated by this result that I'm paradoxically kind of proud that I was backing backing Harris. I mean, I as when I went for a walk outside just here, we're right next to the side of the World Trade Center. And I was reminded of the night in 2016 going for a walk in the dark
in London after I heard that Trump had won the first time. It's just that kind of sense of where I felt the same. These kind of empty streets, the darkness. What if this happening to the United States? And I want to believe in fairy stories maybe. And I wanted to believe it was impossible for Trump to win again. Well, Rory, fairy stories are what you reach your children at night. They don't have any real life too often. We're here now. Listen, you know, I'm at a sore sport.
I wish them well. I congratulate it on Twitter. I'm not sucking up to him. I just, he's going to be the American president. It's important that he does well. And so I hope he does. Bees of he is. What's that? He's got fascist tendencies. And if you, you know what, Dominic's going to invite me on the rest of his through when he's going full on fascist. And while I will remember this conversation. That's a date. Well, it's a date. All right. I think
you're I think you're done firmly. I don't know what that means. Exactly. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Some of us. He does know it. He's fine. It's fine. Don't worry about it. I think you're both Jackson. Okay. How's that? That's good. I know him. Yeah. I know him. I, um, I think also another piece of history. Yeah. We're not going to bring in another question. I thought we're going to bring in another question. No, Rory, I'm you're in charge. I'm calling
instructions. I can't most agree. I forget the people in my ear. Very good. And I'll just do as I'm told. Because I can be there. Um, okay. Let's have a question because it's about the economy. And that's what I was wanting to talk about anyway. Let's have the question. Mr. Mochioly, can you guys discuss how this affects the economy, please? Well, that's a big, big question. What was tariff stuff? Is he going to do that? So the Wall Street thinks this is
phenomenal for the economy. Wall Street thinks that this is the regulation. The Wall Street thinks that the rates are going from 21 to 15%, which is obviously going to create a deficit explosion. But Wall Street sitting here, uh, racking up the stock market, uh, and so Wall Street likes it. But I just will say this to you, if he imposes the tariffs, it's going to eat up the disposable income of the poor. If he does things like he's talking about deporting massive amounts of people,
it will crush the GDP. It'll hurt our tax base. And if he destabilizes our alliance, don't underestimate the safe shipping lanes around the world and all the good things that we benefit from, from the footprint that America and its alliance has around the world. And he will have great consequence on the U.S. economy and the global economy. And he will think he has a Monday for anything he wants. So he's got the immunity shield. It's a real problem. Uh, the prosperity that we've seen
really over the last 30, 40 years has been built on free trade. Free trade is slowing tariffs are going up. If he follows through what he's talking about, we've already got 110% tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles. The tariffs he's talking about with China and with the rest of the world will have a crippling effect. I think on the U.S. economy and the global economy.
20% on everything. A 20% sales tax. No, it's, it's very one. If he does half the things he says he's going to do politically, economically, internationally, the world is going backwards. Uh, Marina, just how are you going to- Can I just say one thing really quick? He's dived to bullet physically. He dived to the bullet legally. He's one of the luckiest people that has ever lived. You got to just qualify for what it is. Yeah. Marina, how does, um,
well, the me, do you think the media, uh, I don't know the media doesn't mean it. The OZ almost goes to you, the PM media, but the media is you and I understand it. Do you think they'll cover him differently second time around to first and then I- I thought he got away with so much in the first term because the media gave up kind of trying to just hold him properly to account. Yeah, but- and that they said that when he was running again that they were going to do everything
differently, but it's happened again. So I don't- what I will tell you is that he is good for business, okay? He- I'm a- whether or not you like it, he drives subscribing numbers for- for, you know, the New York Times for the Unhuge numbers and subscribing numbers. Everybody, he- people want to read about him, he is, as he would say, ratings and whether they want to hate read about it or they want- or, you know, they love to read about him, he will- he will be good in terms of sort of
clicks for the media. And- because it's constant drama, you know, there's like four news- he makes- It's not the one- one- news- I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. I thought the drama was one of the reasons people might want to reject him. But I think people have become addicted into some extent to dope him in. They look- they want to look at their phone and they almost want something dramatic
to have happened. And in the years when Trump was in the White House, you could guarantee like four times a day something crazy would happen. Whatever Steve Bannon said, you know, flood the zone with shit, well, there would always be these things that- like these absolute head-cut relying grabbing, dopamine sparking, things occurring. And I think that actually as a culture we're really quite addicted to- whether or not we could admit that, and I'm, you know, I think leaving myself in that,
I'm not trying to sort of stand loftily above it. But, you know, you're looking at your phone and you sort of almost- there's an element of you that wants something new to- what's he said now? It's pantomime villain, right? Yeah. People love a pantomime villain. They love to hate a pantomime villain. Yeah. And that's why you have the despiking subscriptions and so on. No, I'm going to ask- I'm going to pick on for this one. I think Rory Dominick, I'm going to ask
you to pretend that you are Kierstarmers foreign policy and political advisors. And I want you to explain to me how you intend to handle on your first phone call with Donald Trump and your first meeting with Donald Trump. Okay. So, number one, you want to try to create as good a relationship as possible because that's the only hope you've got of trying to influence him. And then you need to
be very, very clear about what Britain's priorities are. I mean, Donald Trump is a challenge to almost everything that Britain is doing because the Labour government has chosen not to go into the customs union or single market. It is very dependent on trade with people at the US and he's about to put up protection barriers. Number one, number two, all the European vision for European security and Russia and Ukraine is threatened by Donald Trump. Number three, our position on the security
council, our position in the U.N. is all dependent on Donald Trump. So get that sequence right, work out what really matters and then build an incredible network of everybody who gets to Trump in the hope that you may be able to push in. But I'm sadly what we pick up from talking to Anthony. Is it half the people that you make contact with get thrown into the woodshimmer?
People spend around too much, very difficult to have them. I agree completely with Rory. I think you have to strike a more than cordial, friendly and business-like tone in your personal dealings with it. And I think if I'm talking to Kirsten, I would say you need to talk to Berlin, Paris and so on about security above all, about what is the future for you? How do we work more closely to present a united front? How do we reimagine a NATO in which the United States is either semi-detached
or, worst case scenario, genuinely detached? Well, some of us have been on here for European foreign defense policy for some time. I would just say quickly, find the Jared Kushner in the room because Trump is very distracted. He drops the ball all the time. Get in touch with him when you need things and go to him. That's what Netanyahu did. That's what others did. And there's going to be somebody that's going to be picking up the balls with Donald Trump. Identify that person as quickly
as possible and build that relationship. Well, here we are. That's the second or two for us, Vince. The more those of us with real stamina, Marina, the meach and myself, we will be back. When are we coming back later? I'll take it a minute. But 2pm is coast and that'll be 7pm. So don't watch Don't Watch Channel 4 News. Come back to see us. You get the real deal.
So that is it. Donald Trump is going to be the next president of the United States. He's going to go well over the 270 electoral college votes, but he's also incredibly one of the popular vote. And this marks whether we like him or not, whether we like it or not, what has to be seen as one of the great comebacks in political history, not just in America, but anywhere in the world. There's no denying that. Donald Trump, convicted felon, a man with countless accusations against a sexual
assault. He then tried to overturn the 2020 election in a horrific act of violence as one an extraordinary victory. As to the cost, we'll find out. He's getting close to 4am here. So we're at the end of the second of our live streams that we'll be back tomorrow, those of us with real energy. 7pm UK time, which is 2pm Eastern time to reflect on what we've seen tonight. See you later. Bye.