122. Kim Philby: An Assassin In Spain (Ep 2)

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Kim Philby being recruited. Ends up going to Cambridge, and then he goes to Vienna. He he was drawn into communism by the Soviet intelligence service. Mutually assured destruction in a way there, cause Stalin could go after his family and he's got Secret of the Second World War proper as we think of it starts when Hitler invades Poland.

And then finally Germany attacks France and the Low Countries. Germans make this rapid advance through Belgium and France, and you know very quickly, of course, those countries collapse. This episode is sponsored by HP. Most people are not counter-espionage experts, but that won't stop them getting targeted by cyber criminals. Seeking to extract their secrets. HP understands that approximately four in ten UK businesses have reported cyber breaches.

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If I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friends, I hope I should have the guts. to betray my country. Well, welcome to the Rest is Classified. I'm David McCloskey. And I'm Gordon Carrera. And that is I think a quite famous Lion Gordon written by E. M. Forster. Yeah. Uh in what I believe in other essays. And it is very I'd say apropos of the story we are telling, really continuing today, because we are deep

Into the world of the young Kim Philby. And last time we looked at how Kim, who's this son of a very, very unusual father, uh to say the least, I think, ends up going to Cambridge, and then he goes to Vienna. He he was drawn into to communism. Uh Gordon throughout the episode expressed uh great sympathy for this this young young hero's journey into the warm embrace of Soviet communism and and eventually we left last time with uh Kim Philby being recruited.

uh by the Soviet Intelligence Service, the NKVD, forerunner to the KGB. Um, and he has been given as is a young man straight out of Cambridge with really no access Um, he has been given the task of penetrating the British state. Uh but unfortunately Gordon, um, this this man who will go on to be the most important one of the most important traders of the twentieth century and build an entire spy ring,

He's unemployed, isn't he? Which is a bit of a problem for his Soviet handlers. Yeah, that's right. I mean, he's been given this mission on the part bench of, you know, penetrate the bourgeois institution. But he is you know, he's back fresh from Vienna and this kind of grad student, you know, who's just kind of not really got a job and not quite clear how he's gonna do it. And and it is interesting because it is actually gonna take him years to to be successful. And it's not a straightforward

journey that we think about. But you know, the message goes back to Moscow with the news of this recruitment of an interestingly enough, Deutsch describes him as a kind of insecure and shy young man. And Deutsch describes him as someone whose father was some kind of British agent in the Middle East. And Deutsch codenames him Sonny, a reference, you know, to almost certainly to his more famous father. So I find it kind of

Funny for Philby, even then he's in his father's shadow. Even even at the moment he's recruited into the Soviet Secret Service, he's he's he's being referred to in the context of his of his dad, you know. And I think Deutsch, even though he's a brilliant psychologist, doesn't quite r realise how determined and independent minded Philby Himself is

And and Deutsch really just says, Well he you know, he comes from a peculiar family. You know, his father is considered to be an expert on the Arab world. Interesting enough, Deutsch says the father is an ambitious tyrant and wanted to make a great man out of his son. He repressed all his son's desires, and his son was ready without questioning to do anything for us, and has shown all his seriousness and diligence in working.

Interesting kind of portrait of how, you know, his recruiter sees Philby. I guess he sees him as a bit of a blank slate that he can write upon, I guess, is the way he's he's describing this here that the father had sort of made his attempt and and yet he in doing so it repressed what Philby had desired and now now Deutsch, I guess to put it differently, and maybe in the language of a recruiter, Deutsch can give Philby what he actually wants. Yeah. Make him some make him his own man.

Yeah. And they pay'em, I guess. Yeah. Four pounds a week, possibly amount. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, but you definitely don't get the feeling Philby's doing it for the money. I mean, that's not the motivation. But what uh it's it's interesting as well, his instructions, his first instruction in terms of spying,'cause obviously, as we said last time, he's got no access to secrets at this point. His first instruction is spy on your father.

Because they're so convinced that his dad, Sinjin, is British intelligence agents. Yeah, you know, they they're so convinced that because of his the way he's maneuvering around in the Middle East around Ibn Saud that he must be a spy, that they say to, you know, young Kim, Can you look at your dad's paper? Um, but beyond that, the other thing that I think is the most famous thing about Philby is is that it's not just him. There is going to be a ring of spies.

And it's because Philby had said there were other sons of functionaries, which is the kind of communist translation I think for sons of people who are of people are important who are at Cambridge and who share Philby's views. So Philby has clearly said to Deutsch, I've got communist friends whose whose fathers are functionaries or, you know, bureaucrats, senior people. And they say, Well can you draw up a list?

of contacts, of people who you know who might be interesting. And this is what creates you know, the famous Cambridge Spy Ring. And the fact it's Cambridge and not, you know, the far superior Oxford, is is basically just because it's Philby who's the initial recruit. And he put

maybe seventeen names on the initial list. I think we still don't know who all of them are, right? Presumably that that list did not survive uh survive sort of in the in the Soviet archives. Yeah, and it's interesting because And of course some of the people on the list might well have been approached and turned it down, so it doesn't mean there were seventeen spies. But he's you know, he's he's drawn up that list of who could they approach.

And top of their list is Donald McLean, who is a kind of brilliant academic. Uh son, uh in this sons of functionaries language, he is the son of a former liberal cabinet minister, from from a very good family, but also, crucially, a serious communist at Cambridge. So he is approached by Philby over dinner.

in Philby's flat to sound him out. He agrees. He's introduced to a Soviet recruiter at a cafe. He gets codenamed Orphan because his father had died a few years before. And Donald McClain tells his mother he's gone off communism. And he heads into my phase. Um and communist phase. And and he heads into the Foreign Office and he'll be the kind of first one in. Now

at the bottom of Philby's list. At the bottom. So McLean was at the top. At the bottom is Guy Bird. It's worth a moment on Guy Burgess,'cause this is a kind of crucial friendship from Cambridge for Philby, which will define his life. And I mean Burgess is I should o I I should also note for listeners that there will be a tendency to to think as Gordon tells all of these various guy Burgess stories that they're made up.

Uh, but they are not. Guy Burgess is I think Guy Burgess is a com a communist, but more importantly, he's a lunatic, right? That's the He is the most amazing character, I think. I think he really is. Yeah, he is. Because kind of Kim Fulby is this kind of kind of quite dedicated, determined, maybe even repressed character.

Whereas Burgess is wild. I mean, you know, back to daddy issues. So there is one story, and it's in Andrew Lowney's book on Burgess, Stalin's Englishman, as well as others, that Guy Burgess's daddy issues might come from when he was thirteen because he says He hears screaming from his parents' bedroom. He finds when he goes in that his forty three year old father has died while making love to his mother.

And Guy, young guy, has to separate the bodies. Now, whether that's true or not, but that's that's a story that Guy Burgess is. I don't understand why his mother couldn't have done that. Why did Guy have to be involved? He goes to Trinity Cambridge. He's been to Eton. And also Dartmouth Naval. And I guess the things about him is he is he is very, very clever. I mean, really smart.

Smarter than Philby actually. Um, very good looking, very charismatic, very hard drinking, and very openly gay. You know, I mean, does not really hide Openly gay in the nineteen thirties. Well I think you could be That's a pretty it is illegal courageous courageous thing. Yeah, until the sixties it's illegal. It's illegal. Um and yet there was, you know, kind of w gay subcultures, which were quite open, and actually within

the upper class, quite common at points. Uh so he he it it was very open. And so he's this kind of at once he can be a kind of clownish over the top drunk. and yet can also get, you know, deep into kind of establishment circles. and close to powerful people. I mean, because he's just so, you know, kind of charismatic and interesting. I'm I mean, one person who visits Burchess's Cambridge room finds that he has two things on his bookshelves, a collection of pornography and Marxist writings.

Um Yeah, you're just you're just missing the gin you're just missing the gin, and then you have the three loves of Guy Burgess's life there, right? All there. Um sex alcohol and Marxism. That's the that's the Guy Burgess way. And of course, kinda Philby knows him as a Marxist. But also is, you know, the point is he's at the bottom of Philby's list because he's so flamboyant. I mean, you can see Philby is smart enough to go, this guy is wild. And he actually on the list puts a question mark.

after Burgess's name. And, you know, Philby's right, because in the long run, actually Guy Burgess will help play a role in Philby's downfall. But they actually also clearly enjoy each other's company. You know, they kind of get on. But the problem is McLean and Burgess are friends. And when McLean's Donald McLean seems to give up on communism, pretend it's a phase, P Burgess is too smart to buy it.

I mean he's just immediately suspicious and he starts to pester Donald McLean and Philby. Come on, I know what's going on. I know you're something's happened. You're doing this for a reason that you're giving up on your communist past. Just tell me. And so they they basically go, we're better in than out. We're gonna tell him because it's too risky for him to keep asking questions.

I mean, all of these characters will, I mean, despite all of the you know, the various insanities, will they end up serving as as a very Long term penetration. into the British establishment and and become known eventually as the Cambridge Five. Or I you know, maybe we prefer

Gordon, now that you're you know, you're very sympathetic to these people as you've expressed in multiple occasions throughout this podcast, we should refer to them by their the name they are known by in in Russia, which is the Magnificent Five. The Magnificent Five. Yeah. And we should round off the five, shouldn't we? Because Um, you've got Philby as the first, he's suggested Burgess and McLean. At at Cambridge, Burgess was part of this intellectual society called the Apostles.

where they discuss ideas very high minded. Philby hadn't been smart enough to get in, interesting enough. But another of the apostles was Anthony Blunt. Um and so Burgess will go on to recruit Anthony Blunt. In turn, Anthony Blunt becomes a brilliant talent spotter for more communists and leads to another agent who will be John Cancross, all from Cambridge. So these will be the kind of five penetrationists.

who are the magnificent five, as the KGB calls them. And there are other recruits as well, we should say. That you know, they were not the only five recruits at this time. um or agents being run, but because they are the five who who basically last the course and get into the establishment and see it through, you know, they will become known as the Cambridge Five and they're magnificent. I love this uh this quote from Christopher Andrew writing about the five in the Metrocan archive.

He writes that all of the five were rebels against the strict sexual bores as well as the antiquated class system of interwar. Burgess and Blunt were homosexuals, McLean a bisexual, Philby a heterosexual athlete, Karen Cross, a committed heterosexual, later wrote a history of polygamy. So these guys, you know, in some ways.

They're all kind of rebels, I guess, looking for a cause, aren't they, Gordon? Sex pole rebels. Sex they're all they're all sex pole rebels. They're not being recruited to be rebels.

Yeah. Right. So I mean Philby is told to essentially get rid of all of his communist associations. uh to be able to burrow into these supposedly bourgeois institutions. Yeah. And that was uh you know, as we heard last time, this is the recruiter, the brilliant recruiter Arnold Deutsch's strategy. Find the I find the idealistic young men.

um uh but but then have them s dismiss their time at university as kind of youthful nonsense, you know, when they're into communism, you know, ditch their contact. tell people they've given up on those ideas, have nothing to do with the Communist Party of Great Brita Britain,

and move into the establishment. Now for Philby, this is actually quite hard. Makes things difficult with Litzy as well, you know, his his wife, who he's brought from Austria, because he's not supposed to talk to her about what she's doing. But she and he have to kind of

Cut themselves off from their friends. You know, the kind of left wing circles she moves in, the exiles, the activists. But he's made his choices now. You know, he's he's He's become, I think, emotionally dependent on his relationship with his, you know, hand or in the Soviet Union and is having to dip. those other relationships. And but it also he's still struggling. I mean, this is the thing that's so interesting about the Philby story. is, you know, he he he wanted to join the foreign office.

But he pulls out because he's worried about some of the references he might get, might kind of give away too much at this point. Um and his father's very annoyed about that because that's what his father had wanted, wanted. for him. So, you know, he's having these discussions with his handlers. What would be best to do? And they say, well, how else if you're not going to penetrate the institutions as a kind of civil servant, what else do you do? The best fallback to build access and influence?

What would it be, David? Journalist. Oh, see now see now we see Gordon, your your sympathy. A another sort of another stinking layer in the onion of Gordon Carrera's sympathy for Kim Philbane. the the shared uh the shared love of uh of investigative journalism uh as as uh you know sort of the I guess the junior varsity

team for for spying, right? Yes, exactly. It's a route to influence. Yeah. And and so he he he he but again he struggles at first. He writes as a kind of sub editor for some small publications, writes an essay on in German on Tibet. Probably didn't get a lot of readers on the No, exactly. You were like starting really at the bottom of the journalism tree. Kind of not pro German, but not anti German. Interesting enough, his his dad visits around this time.

Moscow's excited that the famous Anglo spy, Stem Philby, is coming and his dad is working, you know, with Standard Oil and Ibn Saud in Saudi Arabia and they're convinced he's MI6. Philbyel photographs his dad's letters and papers, but there's nothing there. He's trying to become more bourgeois. He launders or dry cleans his associations by joining something called the Anglo German Fellowship.

which is there to kind of promote trade and understanding between Britain and Germany. He writes for their publications. He visits Berlin with the group, you know, and Philby finds it pretty repulsive. hanging out with the kind of Nazis. This is after all what motivated him was hating them. But you know, he's got to ditch his friends, hang out with Nazis. But that's what he's got to do. And he's kind of cultivating, I guess, this image that he's

He's sensible. He's he's not he's not pro-Nazi, but he's anti-war. You know, that's his move. Through this period, Deutsch is still running. Right. That's the that's the primary relationship that he's got with with Soviet intelligences through. Arnold Deutsch. Yeah, so Deutsch is still running him, doing kind of surveillance routes to to meet him, public transport, all these things and and passing on messages. But then others also come into the frame. So there's

An interesting character called Alexander Orlov, who'd already been posted in America, Paris, Austria. He comes to the UK in the summer of thirty four to be above Deutsch as the kind of head of illegal intelligence. His cover is actually as an American businessman selling imported refrigerators.

um in Regent Street. And and and Phil Philby and Orlov will meet as well, particularly as there's some worries that Deutsch might be under surveillance. So Orlov starts to meet him after Deutsch you know, about a dozen times over nine months.

Then Olof has to leave because his cover is blown because he bumps into someone who who who knew what he was. Next person, very interesting, guy called Theodore Mallee, who is kind of also considered another of the great illegals. From thirty-six, he's running Philby. He's in a Hungarian, originally wanted to be a priest, ends up joining the Red Army. He's again a kind of one of these great recruiters who just has that sensitivity ability to kind of work with

with not just Philby, but loads of other agents he recruits. And there's a kind of very close relationship between the two of them. But the problem is for Philby at those this time, I mean, he's not getting anywhere. I mean he's not even making it as a journalist. And he's pretty depressed. And I mean actually there's a you know, for club members, there's we're gonna hear a really fascinating tape, which is a tape of Kim Philby talking about his early career.

And how we got into it. And we're going to be kind of listening to the voice of Philby discussing these things and analyzing it. But in in in one point of the tape, he he he Philby says, I'd reported to my Soviet contacts in a state of some despondency. I had to confess to failure. He, you know, Theodore Malley, as usual, was extremely sympathetic. So he's really

You know, he's just he's not getting anywhere in penetrating the bourgeois institutions. I mean at this point he's probably one of the least successful members of the Cambridge Five. Um but the s Soviets again are very patient. They encourage him to keep going. It's the idea that Philby go to Spain.

to cover the civil war that had broken out there in nineteen thirty six. Yeah. And and it's it it is interesting that the Soviets are kind of

They don't just think, let's get rid of this guy, Philby. He's, you know, we'll keep looking for a way of playing him long, of getting him into the state. And this the the Spanish Civil War starts in thirty-six, and it uh, you know, again, it's one of those kind of iconic you know, brutal civil wars of the thirties where the battle between left and right in Europe is being played out because you've got the kind of fascist versus communist

But also it's the kind of nationalists and monarchists as well as the fascists, which have got the kind of establishment of landlords, clergy, and business at one side against the Republicans and the leftists. you know, the peasants, the workers, lots of other countries pile in

you know, as i as a kind of proxy conflict. So the Soviet Union obviously on the leftist side, and you get also the volunteers from the left, you get the famous kind of international brigade, people like George Orwell go out. Um um and on the other side, the Italian and German governments are helping the fascists, including, you know, using the air force to carry out bombing raids. Theodore Manley just kind of clearly thinks this is a place where Philby could be useful.

So february thirty seventh, they send him out as a freelance journalist, just with some letters of recommendation. And most journalists, you know, go out to cover the leftist Republicans, people like Ernest Hemingway, but Philby they send out to cover the right-wing force. And it kinda makes sense'cause if you're the Soviets, you want to collect intelligence on, you know, the right wing forces. You want him to report back on what he's seeing.

developments, you know, the the the array of forces on one side, support the nationalists are getting from Italy and Germany. Those are the kind of details that they're after. He's also given the mission, which again I mean it kind of just shows

the remarkable things that the Soviets are gonna ask him to do over the course of his career is one of his missions is to get close to Franco, who's the the nationalist leader. Uh get close to Franco and collect intelligence that would help with his assassination. So, you know, Get into his headquarters. log his security, you know, sort of his pattern of life, who cooks for him, how does he live? What's the daily routine?

Uh and I mean Philby even gets an order to actually kill Franco, which, you know, in retrospect seems absolutely absurd. It's mad, isn't it? Just bab yeah, it's absolutely mad. I mean, he's a he's a Cambridge undergrad with uh you know, a year of journalism experience at this point and he's being asked to assassinate

Franco. Remarkable. I know. I think Theodore Malley, when when he passes on the the order, knows it's not realistic, but it's clearly come from some, you know, probably from Stalin or someone, you know, like have we got someone who can do it? And it's just getting passed down the bureaucracy. But but y you know, Ph Phil becomes back from that initial visit in May, having not even got close to Franco, and Malie tells Moscow, you know, he's in a very depressed state.

Because Philby feels like he's failed at this mission. But then I think this is so interesting that he gets another shot at it. And how does he get the connections to kind of go back out there? It's his dad. You know, it's his dad again. Because his dad is so well connected. You know, he's this kind of semi-celebrity explorer of Arabia that, you know, one of his old friends is an assistant editor at the Times newspaper.

which is, you know, the establishment government newspaper. Young Kim is offered the chance to write a piece for it, which is kind of and the the the paper is quite pro nationalist at this time. The foreign editor had been to Westminster School, Old Boys Network, has lunch with Philby's dad,

And then proposes that, well, maybe, you know, young Kim could become a special correspondent for us and go and cover Franco and, you know, go to go to go go to Spain. The dad's connections here are pretty important in in in that.

In him getting that break in journalism. And so that's the big break then. So he go he goes back to Spain under this journalistic cover in June of nineteen thirty seven. And I mean he's he's there for Nearly two years until nineteen thirty nine. And I guess I mean Poor Litzy, right? Because Litzy's not coming along for this. No. And I I I you know I do find this sad. This is my game, my some of my sympathies for Kim,'cause I think, you know, these two young lovers who'd met in the snow

um now have to separate, you know. Um because she's she's she's clearly too associated with it. She doesn't know what he's doing, right? She doesn't know. I think she must suspect. I think she suspects, but she's not she's not kind of in the know of the details. Um, and of course she's so associated with communism that they have to separate. And she doesn't like kind of bourgeois life in London. So uh around the time he goes to Spain, she moves to Paris.

And Philby will say, Well, we just discussed it calmly and they I think they both realize they've got to sacrifice the fact they love each other or loved each other for the cause. Philby He has a charm. I mean, he has a charm and a way with women, we should say. Um it's very interesting, but he you know I there's something I think the fact that he's smart, idealistic, it's got a slight man of action to him, as we'll see.

He's also got the kind of vulnerability of the stammer. He he he's pretty Is he's still stammering at this point. Yeah. Still stammering. Still stammering, yeah. So pretty quickly he gets into a relationship. with another kind of interesting character called Lady Frances Lindsay Hogg, or uh which who's known to everyone as Bunny. uh who is a glamorous divorced Canadian actress ten years older than Kim, but who, crucially, is very well connected on the Royalist side and is quite a fan of fashion.

And and the two of them kind of shack up together in Spain. And she's this kind of glamorous figure who all the kind of fascist leaders love. And so you can see that for him, hanging out with her and having an affair with her is also pretty useful. I mean, there are kind of interesting, slightly odd couple. And I guess it it allows him to get close to some of the I guess press or media officials uh in the in the Franco regime. Um and and I guess a way to start putting

some questions to those contacts on, you know, I guess military details, plans and intentions. I mean, he's He's gotta be a bit of an odd duck in the journalistic community in Spain, right?'Cause that now he's he's got this girlfriend named Bunny, he's getting close to Franco. He's not covering the Republic. So it it does seem I guess a little odd. And then especially if anyone knew him, they would know that he had been a

you know, a communist sympathizer back at at Cambridge. So he's kind of an odd stew seen from the outside, right? When he's when he's in Spain. And it's interesting, when you read the accounts, quite a few of the other journalists just actually think he is a British spy. You know, they think he's working for British as well. You know, and being told to to to you know to infiltrate the fascists up.

But yeah, he's do he does quite well. You know, he goes to the press conferences. You know, you get the permission, you get a pass to go by car to the front lines of the of the war. Six weeks after he arrives on this kind of second big trip, he gets an interview with Franco. By now, the order to kill him has kind of been rescinded. But you know, he's getting close to people, providing pretty useful intelligence. And then there's, you know, an a

a a an important moment in December of of of when he's out there in in in that first trip where he goes out to see the action at the front line. There's a convoy of cars. You know, it's New Year's Eve. Snowing, they approach a village near Teruel, if I'm pronouncing it right, in eastern Spain, so north of Valencia. You know, they all get out of the car, the reporters. I mean, I've done this kind of thing, i you know, places. They wander around for a bit.

Two of the journalists go back to the car, sit with a bottle of rum to warm up. Philby comes back to the car and um uh the you know, he it had been his seat in the front, but someone else has now sat in the front. So, you know, Philby says, Ah, it's fine, I'll get into the back of the car. They light up some cigarettes, open some chocolates. As a chocolate is being offered to Philby, there's a massive explosion.

And it's funny'cause Philby later says he thought it was exploding chocolates, but actually the car has been shelled by the Republican side. And the other three men in the car, one of them a Pulitzer Prize winning America Joe. They are all going to die from the you know wounds of that shelling. All of them apart from Philby will be dead. And um you know, the fact that he'd taken the backseat.

is just that crazy bit of luck that the shrapnel from this shell goes, you know, kills the other three and all the other seats in the car, but in his one seat in the back, you know, he's protecting. He gets a slightly bloodied head and that's it. Um and you know, next day, New Year's Day, it's his twenty sixth birthday and he will always look back on that day and think he was lucky. And I think he was. Well and it gives him, I guess, something of a heroic shine, doesn't it? Because he's

He's survived, he's been bloodied, he's this kind of brave war correspondent. I mean, and I th I find this fascinating. He's given a medal by Franco personally. uh for for surviving uh this this attack. I mean it it just it it gives you the sense, I guess seen from the perspective of his Soviet handler. This is a guy who, you know, despite maybe it you know, sort of against all odds, although I guess with a bit of help from his dad and and the time.

You know, has has actually succeeded in the mission that he's given in Spain of getting close to penetrating uh Franco's. Maybe not inner circle, but penetrating the people around Franco and giving the Soviets actual intelligence. about what the nationalists are up to in Spain. So that's a that's a success for Kim Phil. He's a he's a kind of successful war correspondent, which gives him, you know, because of this injury, because of the medal, he's got all the access he needs.

And that in turn makes him a better agent for the Soviets. You know, he's able to get you know, some pretty good information which he can, you know, feed back to his handlers if he meets them in France. So So, you know, Philby's reputation is definitely enhanced. This is the point where he's no longer a failure, and the nationalists as well, who he's covering, are steadily advancing until eventually they win that civil war.

And Philby's there in Barcelona in January nineteen thirty five, when Barcelona falls to the nationalists and reports, you know, from the front line as it falls, and then soon after that Madrid will fall and the the civil war will be over. Well be there, Gordon, with with Philby having succeeded.

at his mission in Spain, uh, and with a return to England imminent. Let's take a break when we come back, we will see how Kim Philby uh joins the British Secret Intelligence Service and begins to Hollow it out from the inside.

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from the ground up. ATIO even has something called agent collaboration. Yes, but in this case that means giving people the ability to let AI work seamlessly in the background for them. Try Attio for free at ATTIO.com slash trick. Welcome back. It is the summer of 1939, and Kim Philby has just returned from Spain. He is back in Britain. He is tougher, he's more experienced, he's more disciplined. He's got a reputation now, Gordon. He's got some experience on the front lines.

And I I guess you could say it's he's kind of Someone who has had his first taste of success in the spy game. Yeah. And it's interesting, Tim Milne, his old friend from school, definitely finds him changed. He says it was not just that he'd grown fatter, too fat for a young man. But he seemed to have discarded all his previous asceticism and idealism, which I had admired.

Now the talk was all about the fleshpots of Spain, the booze, the marvellous seafood. He was more cynical, more worldly wise, more interested in material comforts, more gregarious. Uh you know that's a good idea.

that a doctor had told him that he, then twenty seven years old, had the arteries of a man of fifty. I mean, that doesn't sound like a thing to boast about to me. But he's back. He's back in London. He's passing his material to Moscow. But but but This is a really interesting point, kind of 3940, because you know, he's actually poorly handled by Moscow at this point. Yeah, having been brilliantly recruited.

Bionald. We can't imagine why everything was going so smoothly inside the intelligence apparatus of the Soviet Union in the late nineteen thirties. What what could have possibly happened, Gordon? What what possibly happened was that in nineteen thirty seven to nineteen thirty eight

the great terror of the purges strike Moscow. I mean, you know, it's this mad bit of Stalinism, isn't it? Where Where, you know, Stalin's purges of the kind of military and of the Communist Party then extend to, you know, the NKVD or the KGB itself. And you know, basically they can't start purging all the spies, including all these people

who'd handled, you know, Philby. And Philby's got no idea what's going on, but his handlers, you know, keep getting withdrawn very quickly. You know, and the reason is because they're getting purged, you know. Theodore Malley, this you know, this kind of brilliant of of of the illegals, the one who'd sent him to Spain, gets recalled, tortured, and shot.

In 1938, as a German spy, which he wasn't. Others, you know, there's a couple, Kravitsky and Olof, who knew a little bit about Philby, who defect. But don't r you know, spill the beans, but they kind of leave. Very interesting. Orlov is a very interesting case,'cause he he'd handled Philby and he he l he defects to the west. but says to Stalin uh or sends a message through to the top going, I know lots of secrets.

And i I will agree not to reveal them if you don't harm my family still in the Soviet Union. And the deal basically holds. So even though he's defective to the way. He never reveals the kind of you know, the fact of what Philby is doing. It's kinda interesting. That is kind of a mutually assured destruction in a way there,'cause Stalin could go after his family and he's got the secrets that could that could uproot one of Stalin's best spies. So they just

Stay quiet. That's a that's incredible. Yeah. And so you know, what about Deutsch? Yeah, what about Deutsch? Well, Deutsch it's a little bit bit mysterious because he's not we don't think per So the best guess is he dies during the war, it's thought, possibly on a on a um uh uh uh at sea, but it's not it's not entirely clear what happens to him, which is a bit of a shame'cause he's such a kind of

interesting character that you'd kind of like to know a bit more about that. But there's there seems to be some mystery to it. But the result is all these handlers getting purged. Moscow is worried the British, you know, it's it's British embassy has been penetrated. There's only one person left. They're also a bit suspicious about the Cambridge spies because also, of course,

Technically, the people who recruited and ran them have now been purged as German spies. So does that mean that these agents were compromised? You know. So it's all a little bit kind of actually haphazard for Philby and Philby is complaining, you know, to Burgess McLean and the others and kind of going, I'm really struggling to to to contact, you know, my Soviet hand. A and then you get as well this other big moment, August nineteen thirty-nine, which is the Nazi Soviet pact.

And I think this is so interesting, isn't it? Because this is when, you know, Hitler and Stalin briefly make a deal that they're going to be allies. And you kind of think to yourself, well, how must that feel to someone like Phil? You know, who who anti fascism had been his thing.

I mean it's wild, isn't it? What it must have been like when you read that in the news. Philby and and others, including Burgess, will basically say I mean some people will just totally walk away from the communist cause. Yeah. You know, w when this happens. But I guess Burgess and Philby basically say that this is a necessary tactical move on yeah on the sort of march toward the glorious communist future that sort of Stalin had to do this um, you know, to to kind of

live to fight another day, I guess you could say. But even so, I mean it's gotta be Very disturbing to watch. Yeah, yeah. And I think I think I think that must be the lowest moment for Philby because he's got he's kind of badly handled, intermittent contact, struggling to talk to them, Nazi Soviet pact. I mean

He must, I think, have had doubts about his choice at this point, you know, and wonder, what have I done? But what's interesting, and I think this is very Philby, is he doesn't walk away. I've made my, you know, I've made my bed, I'll lie in it. I'm gonna keep going.

And and you know, he does. And then he he gets this next journalistic assignment from the Times, which is now the the Second World War proper as we think of it, starts when Hitler invades Poland at the start of september thirty nine. And the Times newspaper can send one correspondence

to be accredited with the British Expeditionary Force in France, the kind of British Army in Europe. And they pick Phil Philby, you know, because he is their Star War correspondent, having, you know, done the Spanish Civil War.

So so he goes out to the kind of headquarters of the British Army in Europe, you know, sits with the British military, he's reporting on what's happening. I mean, it's not that much happening at this point, but uh he's actually in military uniform. I mean, I hadn't realized. saw some of the pictures. You know, he he gets a British military uniform to wear. But now he is crossing a line because the Nazis and the Soviets at this point are allies.

And aga against the British. I mean, it doesn't last long. But I think this is interesting because this is the first moment where You know, you raised this earlier. When when does he when's he really betraying his country? Really betraying his country. And I think this is the first moment where he's he's really crossing a line, but very briefly. Yeah, and i I I mean I I guess it's it seems

unlikely if even though he'd been in touch with with Deutsche and other handlers prior to this point, it it seems unlikely that if even if all of that had come to light, you would have been able to prosecute Philby. Yeah. Right. I mean, there may not have even been a willingness to do it. Yeah. Um, but there there may not have been enough of a there there to do anything about him at this point. I guess you think about it.

You know you're right, to this point in time he has not I mean I guess he spied on his own father, which is a psychological piece we sort of glossed over, but uh but you know he he hasn't spent that much time actually directing his energies at British. Right. Most of his work to this point has actually been, you know, working to penetrate the Franco regime in Spain. He is passing on information about British military.

And I think that that is definitely crossing a line. But of course, you know, here's the crazy thing. At this point, Moscow is in a kind of bit of a mess. The London residency, the London spy base in in the embassy it of of the of the Soviet Union is in a mess. And effectively they're not they're paused in contact with him. He's kind of not being handled at this moment where actually he's perhaps doing his most dangerous thing so far.

And so it it's a kind of odd situation I think he's in. And then finally Germany attacks France and the Low Countries. you know, the Germans make this rapid advance, you know, through Belgium and France and, you know, very quickly, of course, those countries collapse and their militaries collapse and and just ahead of the evacuation of the what's left of the British Army from Dunkirk on these famous little boats. Philby, you know, heads back to Britain.

So, you know, by the summer of of nineteen forty, he's back in Britain. But his relationship with the with the Soviets seems effectively to have broken down. You know, he's struggling To make any contact with them. This is what uh I th this is remarkable, I think, and it shows the extent to which Philby was a sort.

self driven true believer because even though his relationship with the Soviet Union is in shambles and even though I mean even you know, by this point the Moscow center has kind of concluded insanely that the Cambridge network was Not actually working for the Soviet Union and had been, you know, sort of, you know, controlled by enemies of the people, right? Uh it's Philby. Who patches it back up and restarts the relationship with

the Soviet Union. It's not the other way round. It's his energy. Yeah. Um that that brings it all back together, which I again is just it it's sort of another data point in how deeply committed he is to this cause. Yeah. Yeah. So he's kind of trying to get McLean and others to say, can you get me in touch? And he and he, you know, and it it it

He's not getting much back, but he keeps the faith. Because I think it is a faith. I think that's the point. And it's only actually after a few months that Moscow will respond to that.

And that's because basically Philby himself is incredibly successful. And it's worth saying at this point, until now, the other Cambridge spot have been doing much, much better at penetrating the bourgeois institutions. You know, Donald McClain is at the Foreign Office and he's a rising star. He's passing on tons of secrets, tons of documents. to his handler, you know, they're kind of running out of film to ph photograph it all. Burgess has recruited Blunt, who's in turn recruited others.

Blunt is in MI five. He's in the Security Service. John Canecross, we talked about, has joined the Foreign Office and then the Treasury, and then is the kind of private secretary to a cabinet minister, Lord Hankey. And he has tons of access to secret, you know, documents. I mean, Kercross is really important. I mean, he possibly gives the first information that that that about the

plan of the Allies to develop an atomic bomb to the the Soviets was definitely one of the first. Nineteen thirty five, if you go back a few years, he decided the best way to distance himself from his communist past was to being an aide to a right wing Tory MP.

And then they go on a fact finding trip around Nazi Germany, where according to Guy Burgess, he has sex with lots of men from the Hitler youth, which is like again, is just kind of Classic guy Burgess, which is kind of mixing work with pleasure, I think, on his on his on his and he's got this amazing network of friends, many of them gay, but not all of them. In London. And famously, this will be known as the Homintern, as opposed to the Comintern, the kind of uh uh and it's a kind of

gaggle of people who is with his flamboyant, you know, character he's mixing with. W where does he join, though, David, in nineteen thirty-six? Where's the best you know, on his path to the establishment BBC. Where else would you go? BBC. B B C. Yeah. I mean I guess the I it Blazing the blazing the straight path from having sex with tons of men in the Hitler youth.

straight to the BBC. Yes, exactly. I don't think that's an option anymore on the on the on on the on the career when you're doing your kind of you know for previous previous experience that qualifies you for this job. But he ends up in the BBC as a talks producer.

where he's persuading people to come on a talk. And again, he's so well connected. He's so charismatic. He gets lo he's got this just brilliant network. And I mean he gets to know Churchill pretty well before Churchill's Prime Minister. Churchill inscribes one of his books to Guy as a present. And then in January thirty nine, guys left the BBC for a position in something new, which is called Section D of MI six. What's the D for, David?

The D is for destruction. Destruction, yes. I wish I wish we got to name sections this way of intelligence agencies. It reminds me Uh, you know, I think the we we did uh we did those episodes uh this is now over I I think almost uh over a year ago, Gordon, on uh on North Korean cyber bank robbers. And we talked about the North Korean Reconnaissance General Bureau and they have like a

I think they had a a unit called like the like the en the enemy destruction sabotage unit or something like that. This is this is very redolent of those kind of uh muscular North Korean naming conventions. I'm I'm a fan. Yeah, so it's a new section for MI6, focusing on sabotage and destruction, but also propaganda. Um, uh it's a bit of a it's it's new, a bit of a sideshow. And Burgess is in the bit basically dealing with propaganda because he's got his background in talk.

and the BBC. So he's a kind of liaison between Section D propaganda and Ministry of Information. But then of course he's now into it's a it's a new bit, it's a kind of adjacent to the main British Secret Service, but it's part of it. And of course he lobbies to get Philby into it, his old friend. And and Philby you can s you know you can see why Philby is perfect for it because he's an experienced war correspondent. He knows Europe. He's good at languages.

He knows about the military, you know, he's been embedded with the military in France, but he also knows about irregular warfare from having covered the Spanish Civil War. And, you know, Philby has also been trying to drop content, you know, hints with all his content.

links in the previous months, you know, journalists and others love to do something for the war. And you know, and a fem female journalist, I think, with intelligence links is is the one he thinks plays a role. But definitely Burgess is is is the one who kind of helps get him in. Philby says No and he's he's talking about this uh this meeting with Burgess says I was sitting in the office in the Times with very little to do.

When suddenly the telephone rang and a voice asked me to go to a certain room in a certain hotel on a certain day, and I asked why. And they said, Well look here, it's it's rather special work we are thinking for you about, and please be as discreet as you can. Simply come to us. and don't say anything. And so this this is the connection that I guess Burgess helps facilitate for Phil B to the secret intelligence service that is gonna Really? Shape.

all of Philby's robatic life and legacy. Yeah, that's right. So, you know, he has a couple of interview at the St. Ermine's Hotel, which is still there. Um, and uh he's asked to sign the official Secrets Act. He's into this section D and Guy shows him up to his new office you know, no one knows what it's doing,'cause it's new, it's the start of the war, there's, you know, reorganization. It's all a bit of a mess. He's got a vague role, Philby, helping Burgess of all.

And there's a great description in um Philby's memoir, and it's I have to say his memoir is pretty unreliable in part. But it I do love the title. Shockingly. Yeah, shockingly. Helped written partly by the KGB, but it is called My Silent War, which I think is a great title for a for his memoir. And he says sometimes in the early weeks

I felt perhaps that I had not made the grade after all. It seemed that somewhere lurking in deep shadow, there must be another service, really secret, and really powerful. capable of backstairs machination on such a scale as to justify the perennial suspicions of, say, the French. But it soon became clear that such was not the case.

It was the death of an illusion. Its passing caused me no pain. You feel like that when you entered in the CIA, David? First time? Yeah, I was gonna I I was gonna say I think I think all uh sort of, you know, intelligence officers and ALS people who joined these secret services must go through some version of this moment because you have been you have been fed this image of these services as being extremely capable.

omniscient, omnipotent in subways, like all seeing, and then you get in and you realize that they're organizations that are run by human beings and They're just, you know, they're they're broken and messed up and insane in all the ways that you know, non secret.

organizations are and sometimes it's even worse. I think I think this is a very common feeling. I think it's it's interesting though that um, you know, for people who are loyal to these institutions in some way, shape or form the passing of that illusion does cause some pain because you'd idealized a ver you know, some picture of this thing that is now gone and I think in Philby's case because he's an enemy within. Um, he's probably more than happy to see but

that it's it's run to some degree uh as any other organization would where you've got lunatics and incompetence who are staffing. It's a bureaucracy. That's right. Yeah. It's a bureaucracy. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So he's he's gonna he's in this section D, he's gonna go to a kind of training school and be involved in training exiles in propaganda and he's good at it actually. And at this point the Soviets finally respond to his contact request.

And you can imagine how surprised they must be. Cause like this guy who they thought was a kind of, you know, he's doing okay. And suddenly he's like, I'm in MI6, you know, I've got into a kind of bit of the British Secret Service. But Section D doesn't really last very long'cause it sits

you know, th they're real this is a kind of period of great change for British intelligence. It's the start of a war. So soon they're going to create the special operations executive, this famous organization, to set Europe ablaze um and to do sabotage. Which means that MI six can therefore focus much more on just intelligence gaps. And so this kind of creation of the SOE is bad news for Burgess.

Yes, because the new bosses at SOE can see that he is just not he's not their kind of guy. They're a bit more military. He's not SOE material. Burgess is not SOE material. This drunk and lecherous young man who's basically been trying it on with all the soldiers.

is not suitable to be in to be training in SOE. And he's living this kind of wild life at this flat in Bentick Street. And he's also just gets done for drunk driving at this point as well. So as a result, Burgess, you know, who's got Philby in. But what do you do with someone like that, you know, who's who's been clearly not suitable for this kind of work? I know. Back to the BBC. Back to the BBC. He goes he does go back to the BBC though. Only briefly.

Yeah, of course, because he's he's he's a drunk lecturer's dangerous. Where else would you put him but in the foreign office with access to seat

Diplomacy. You've got a future in diplomacy. Yeah. But meanwhile, Philby though, of course, you know, but that's Burgess. But Philby, who's been brought in by Burgess partly, I think they can see he's he looks capable. So so here is the cu crucial moment, which is can you get into the real MI6? You know, not this offshoot which is being now kind of absorbed, but the inner sanctum. And there is this chance.

So MI6 decide they need to check him out before joining up. You know, there's a quick cursory check of the files, nothing found. Now, uh, the number two in in MI six was one of the number twos. There were two deputies, one Valentine Vivian, V V, um, kind of head of security. decides that to check out Philby, whether he's, you know, good enough to to join the British Secret Service, what do you do? You have lunch with him and his dad.

Because, you know, Valentine Vivian has known his very British. Very British, Gordon. St. Jin Philby had known Valentine Vivian back in India. when, you know, Vivian had been there thirty years earlier. They used to play bridge together. Philby's mother, Kim Philby's mother, is an old friend of, you know, Valentine Vivian's wife.

So so they decide they're gonna meet. And of course we'd we'd slightly lost track of the mad Stjin Philby story, hadn't we? I think where where did we leave him last? I think he'd converted to Islam, hadn't he, in the thirties. He'd converted to Is he'd converted to Islam. Uh potentially to help secure more lucrative business deals in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. And and also by the kind of late thirties, he's very uh anti war, pro peace with the Germans.

and he becomes little bit pro Hitler, you know, not totally, stands for Parliament in Britain for a far right party, and then crucially at the start of the war, he's actually encouraging the Arabs to stay out of the Second World War when it starts. And Ibn Saud is clearly kind of sufficiently kind of worried about this behaviour that he kind of tells the Brit

And then and then um Sin Jin Philby gets detained and deported to Britain, where he's held for months as a kind of risk to public safety. This is the bit where you just go, this is just so weird and it's so British. So he gets held for a few months, then he gets released.

And yet just after that he's having lunch with the number two of MI six. Because they're old friends. I mean, it's just like it's nuts, isn't it? I've actually been bottling up this question on the British class system because I think we we Americans Uh at least Americans like me, Gordon, you know, a pretty uh decent middle class guy from a flyover state who

isn't part of any sort of establishment. Yeah. Ordinary Joes like me, Gordon, uh, we don't get the class system, but I guess this is is this a demonstration of that class system in action here where If you're kind of in and I know Sin Jin isn't exactly in the upper class, but if you're

If you're kind of in or if you know a few people who sort of vouch for you, that's that's enough. I mean, what what is the best way to understand this dynamic that we've just seen here where this guy a bigamus a bigamist who converted to Islam and who has actually been deported back to his home country from abroad because he is a threat to safety and security, winds up vouching for his son to join

the British Secret Intelligence Service. Like why does that work that dynamic for us? Why does that work? So I think it's partly about class. Although it's worth saying none of these people are like upper class. They're not

the aristocracy and they are they are kind of upper middle professional class and they're not rich, but they are from a certain world where everyone knew each other So I think the way to think of it more is partly about class, but not as upper class, but more as what people call the old boys now. Which is people who'd been to school together and where if you're one of them and you're trusted by them, then you're okay. And I mean you see that with you know with this lunch.

You know, this fascinating lunch because it's the three of them having lunch. Deputy head of you know, one of the number twos at MI6, Sin Jin and Kim. Kim goes to the bar. And Valentine Vivian from MI6 turns to the father and says, He was a bit of a communist at Cambridge, wasn't he? And St Jin replies, That was all schoolboy nonsense. He's a reformed character now. And that is it. It's an astounding mis astounding

misjudgment on the part of the father. Exactly. Because he does the because he probably actually believes it too. Yeah. Right. I mean he's not he's not covering up for his son. He genuinely thinks that It was schoolboy nonsense. Yeah. V V's got got the stamp of approval. Yeah, and and he's been vouched for by one of us. It's clear now, he's been told he was once a communist. And yet it's fine to employ. And and v Valentine Vivian later says

I mean I love this line as well. Later he will say he let him in because he was vouched for and he said I was asked about him, and I said I knew his people. That's what Valentine Vivian says. Valentine Vivian, you know, I knew I was asked about him, Philby, and I said I knew his people. In other words, his father, his type of people.

And I think it's so interesting because that is the kind of old fashioned British elite and establishment in action. It's a good lunch, someone saying you're a good chap, a good egg, and you're an MI six. Well.

Gordon, I think there is the perfect place uh to stop for right now with Kim Philby. About to enter the inner sanctum, thanks to a very good lunch and a completely out to lunch father who has no idea what's going on in his son's in his son's life, but he is about to join uh S I S, and when we come back next time we'll see um h how Kim Philby begins to penetrate this most Bourgeois institution, the British.

Secret intelligence service. But of course, just a reminder, if you want to hear the next couple of episodes right away, you can go join the declassified club at the rest is classifier.com. Lots more there for you, including some bonus material and that tape where you can hear Kim Philby himself. talking about being recruited into MI6. So we'll see you next time. We'll see you next time.