The Resident Builder podcast: August 18, 2024

reality check. Pretty miserable all day yesterday and certainly not that much more pleasant this morning. So the markets are off by the way, that's where probably I would have been heading anyway, That's beside the point. Good morning, welcome along. It is an opportunity for you to talk about all things construction, whether it's a project that is underway and

going well not going well. I mean, I've got a call from a mate who you know, we often just call talk about, you know, challenges and the job, those sorts of things. Friday afternoon, that's not a good time to get a call from anyone to go, hey, look, just wondering what the best way forward in this particular situation was. So if you need to chat about a project that you've got on, you can do so by

calling eight hundred eighty ten eighty. You can text through nine two nine two, and you can email Pete at NEWSTALKZB dot co dot m Z. Yesterday was again I said, it was a fairly miserable all day, and I set out in the afternoon to spend a little bit of productive time in the workshop and then realize that in order to do what I intended to do, I needed

to keep going in and out of the workshop. I needed to get gear out of the back of the Masda, and I just kind of went to be fair, it's it's miserable and I don't know that I want to get wet. I'm in the shed. I'm not getting a wet in their, but can I be bothered one around? And then as I was tidying up, I found this offcut of color steel, just flat sheet that I'd got from me mate who does flashings, and I, ah, that's right.

I was going to make what I call a witch's cap, so just a good old fashioned cowling or cap for event pipe. So I've got one hundred bill vent pipe through a little roof that I built to ventilate the hot air that builds up in a roof. And when I did it, I got the guys, the roof is to flash it, put the penetration through, and I just put a fixed cap on the top, with the attention of either finding which is not that easy, a cowling cap,

or having the time to make one. And so then it was like, now, how do I you do these? How do you take a flat sheet of steel, a flat sheet of color steel and turn it into a conical shape, which prompted to be fair A little bit of investigation on YouTube where I found lots of videos about how to make a cone, but not a cap. And then eventually it popped up and it was like, oh,

that's right, they're actually really really simple to do. So I got a couple of pieces of paper, compass out, strapped a mark a pen to it, made one out of just as a template, and thought, no, it's going to be slightly too big, made another one, worked out how much I needed to cut, like a segment to cut out, then to wrap it around, transferred that across onto the flat sheet, got the did a dash to the back of the truck, grabbed all of the cutters and bits and pieces that I needed, folded that up,

made some little legs on it. Job done. Very productive afternoon in the end, actually, and I was about to abandon ship anyway, stick with it is the key there, there's always a job to do. And then I posted about it yesterday, just a bit of a funny thing online, and someone said, is that a to do it cap? Around to it? Around to it? And I thought, around cap, I've heard of a round to it cap. I should go and have a look. So I did a quick

Google search of what's an around to it cap? And of course it's not there's no such thing, but it is though one of those jobs. I'll get round to it. And yes, I did get round to it yesterday and it felt pretty damn good. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Let's rip into it. If you've got a question of a building nature, and this is a fairly wide field, right. This can be about compliance and can be about projects, It can be about contractors, it can be about regulations,

it can be about contracts. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty and we'll have a crack at all of those issues. A very good morning to you, Robert.

footprint to the property. It's a decent sized roof that's going to go on it. Yep, I would say building consent.

the boundary. But I think you've probably strayed into an area that I feel that we haven't discussed enough at the moment that when you said it should be relatively straightforward to get a building consent, And I would imagine that anyone who's applied for a building consent in the last couple of years probably is listening to the shaking their head, going oh, mate, you don't know the drama

that you're in for. And unfortunately, I think the overwhelming sense we have around the process of gaining a building consent is just it's really challenging, seemingly now, if you and your project should be relatively straightforward, right, it's a relatively simple structure, there's an existing building, there, there's no issues around services, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It should be if it's well drawn, it goes and it

gets stamped and you can get underway with it. But I just almost everyone I talk to at the moment talks about the process of getting a building consent is really really challenging for a number of different reasons. Part of that might be, you know that some I would imagine that there's a large number of building consent applications and plans that go into council that are poorly done, and so counsel has to keep asking questions. But in some cases, I think counsel just seems to be able

to make what is relatively straightforward incredibly difficult at the moment. Okay, but I don't mean to put you off. I'm just saying, if suddenly you put it in and then it becomes a bit of a drama, don't be surprised.

trigger a requirement for a resource consent? Probably not, because you're still well under let's say a fifty percent maximum site coverage that you might be able to have. Are you in a historic zone and you're doing something to a house that's protected by the nineteen forty or pre nineteen forty heritage overlay? Probably not, you know those sorts of things. So I would have thought that very unlikely that you would have had you would need a resource consent.

be installed on site. So you're not talking about you know, conventional construction where you do a slab, you'd frame up some walls, add some windows and a roof to it. You want all of that to be in a sunroom style.

either been timber or aluminium. But you know, one of the things I guess you've got where you will probably be quite heavily impacted with new building consent rules and new Building Code regulations in terms of energy efficiency, is you're going to be adding a great deal of glazing, right, so the performance of the glazing has got to be very very good in order for you not to in a sense be penalized for putting so much more glass

into your building. Right, so you're going to find that the performance standard required of the glazing is going to be quite high in order for you to achieve H one compliance. Okay, yeah, maybe they'll take an attitude that goes because are you going to still have doors between the sunroom and your existing house?

take care, Robert, My pleasure love with them. In fact, talking about glazing, we've got Nick Hardy Jones from Metro Performance Glass joining us at around seven forty five this morning to talk about exactly what we were just discussing there with Robert, the changes to H one of the Building Code. This talks about energy efficiency and thermal performance of our building envelope and obviously because we like to have windows up with a lot of glass and that

glass now has to comply. So with a bit of a deep dive into H one compliance and glazing with Nick Hardy Jones from Metro Performance Glass at around seven forty five this morning, we'll take a short break. Francis is waiting for us. We'll come to her in just a moment. If you would like to join us, OH, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. We'll have a spear line for you in just a moment. If you'd like to join us, OH, eight hundred eighty

ten eighty is the number. To call, just off the back of Robert's comment about going wanting to add a thirty square meter sun room, do I need a consent? I think you probably do for the scale of it, and then okay, well, hopefully that'll be relatively easy and you could probably hear sort of a sharp intake of breath from my point of view or from me going, it's probably not going to be And I tell you what, just a quick opinion on my part. All of this focus at the moment around not so much the h

one changes. I love the way in which building is so political at the moment.

so extending Schedule one of the Act, allowing for more work to be able to be done without necessarily requiring a building consent, all of which is the intention seems to be to make things more affordable, to speed up the process. But I wonder whether the focus is a little bit misguided, that in fact, the focus should be on changing the consenting process and can ultimately changing the

joint and several liability from councils. So counsels, I think have a real reluctance to they have such a low risk attitude that they're adding hurdles into the process of getting your building consent because they end up being the only one remaining when the building goes wrong. So maybe it's actually our consenting process and the liability side of it that needs attention, not playing around the edges going oh well, maybe you can do more work without a consent.

More on that later. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call. Francis a very good morning.

he suggested I ring a plumber. I had a plumber come round quite quickly actually, And they've suggested they suspect it's a collapse soak pit in the driveway. Yes, now I don't, and that it would be I'd have to they have to do. They poured water down one of the down pipes in the garret and said, yes, the water is going there, but what do you suggest The engineers suggested that it could be a collapsed very old pipe, you know, from a long time ago. They have said

that it to do it correctly. If it is a collapse soak pit, that it's going to cost a considerable amount of money. And I'm wondering if you've got any advice about this.

that's collapsed. That might have happened, but I think it's more likely that it's an old drainage pipe that's collapsed or jointed, and so water is flowing into there and then scouring out all of the fill around it, and that's what's caused effectively a sinkhole in your driveway. I would have thought that the people to come and open

all of that up is actually a drain layer. So you'd be looking for an experienced drain layer who would come and excavate the area, find both ends of the pipe, remove the part that's collapsed, reconnect them, and then check that water is flowing to Do you actually have stormwater connection as in stormwater to a council line?

little bit complicated after that. I think a drain layer, like a local experienced drain layer, would be the person to get They'll be the one doing the work. Now, some plumbers are drain layers as well, but not necessarily. So you want a drain layer, not necessarily a plumber, right.

a building consent to cover the drainage work. We need you to upgrade your stormwater connection, et cetera, et cetera, and the job becomes a much bigger job than repairing a broken pipe. Right, So I'm trying to ensure that that doesn't happen. So between you and I as if no one was listening, I would probably bring council on Monday and say, look, actually the matter is being handled by a registered drain layer. There's no need for you

to come out. Thank you very much for offering to come out and try that, and then get your drain layer to look at it, see whether they come up with a good, practical, sensible solution for you, and then go from there. But I think not saying that it will get into a much bigger job, but it's I think you can handle this with a suitable contractor.

so he's got access to four territorial authorities local councils. Basically, over fourteen years, I've built over five hundred houses and the consent process is, as you describe it, an absolute nightmare. It becomes a game like a school teacher checking for spelling mistakes. They're so scared of what if and looking for the elephant that is not in the room, all at the cost or frustration of the end user. And how or where do you go to complain about their

pedantic questions. I could write a book on the subject, and look, he's you know, even if you try and take a more nuanced or balance view, the texture is probably right. And you'd have to say, if you've built five hundred houses and dealt with five hundred building consents, I can imagine you'd have a long list of those questions. And you know, I'm always reluctant to be fair to you know, poke at councils because it seems like they're a big, slow moving target and quite easy to sort

of put the boot into. And that's not my intention. But you also have to listen to the end user, ie builders, developers, people involved in the construction sector, and listen to their constant frustration at how slow the process is, how often pedantic it is, how unable they are to get sensible responses to reasonable requests, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, And go all of the government's focus on sort of freeing up, or making housing affordability more efficiency,

et cetera. Is focusing on changing bits of legislation, but maybe it should focus on the actual consenting process. And for good reason, counsel are extremely reluctant to allow anything that might come back and basically bite them in the ass to be built because they end up being the only one left over when you know the developer has gone from being developer twenty twenty two corporation to develop a twenty twenty three corporation, when building firms disappear, et cetera,

et cetera. Now, part of the process of the LBPS thing was that it was always individuals, right, so you could pursue an individual if I do a record of works, it's my number that goes on there, and that's not my company. I can fold my company, but I'm still personally liable as an LBP. It's still on my license. But maybe all of this focus on efficiency and that should actually be a focus on liability. This whole thing

about joint and several. In fact, we're going to have Mike Thornton, who's a lawyer specializing and building contract law with us again in the next couple of weeks. We should talk about joint and several liability and is there a better model that perhaps allows more responsibility to be taken by the contractors for the quality of the work, but backed up by insurance. If you don't have insurance public liability insurance, contractor insurance, insurance, etc. Then you won't

be able to build. You just have to have it and then any issues with quality going forward come back to the insurer. Seems like a more straightforward and it's to be fair. This is how they work overseas in a large number of countries that I'm aware of. We can talk about that too. Eighty ten eighty is the number to call Christine.

the amount of space that you're taking. But again, you know, if the draft person is convinced that you don't need one you'd want him to have, you know, chapter and verse here is schedule one of the Act, and here is the reasons that you don't and I just can't see it somehow.

and that that get really really cautious about unconsented work. Right, So you know, if you go ahead and do a job and you think I don't really need a consent so I won't get one, turns out you did need one, and then you put the house on the market. Later on, someone doing their due diligence on the property may identify the fact that that work actually did require a consent. Then you don't have one. Then trying to get a

CoA certificate of acceptance. It's a lot of work. The burden of proof now on coas is almost as high as a building consent. You are better off just getting the building consent. And again this kind of circles back to my point, which is maybe we need to look at how we do the building consent process to take to de risk it from a council point of view that allows it to be you know, yours is the classic example.

And then if there's a problem with it because you've got insurance, and someone says in five years time you've sold the house and oh, actually i've got a leak in the corner. I wonder if it's poor workmanship. Yes it is, Oh well, that's okay because that contractor had insurance and I'm going to use the insurance to rectify it. Counsel don't have anything to do deal with it. That's I wonder whether that's kind of where we should be heading.

the walls. You're going to want to make sure that the joinery is right, that by you're not inadvertently doing something that's going to impact the rest of your house. And that's that whole thing about it being connected. If it was a ten square me to sleep out in the backyard that if it wasn't great, it's low risk. Well that's different, but you know, because it's attached to the house. I think. So it'd be interesting to again to know how you get on if you go back

to your designer. But I'm pretty sure that work requires a building consent. Yeah, lovely to talk. Thank you very much and good luck with the process. Take care bother, thank you and New Stalks CB will take a short break. It is ten minutes away from seven your Newstalks CB. If you've got a question, oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. Quick response from a regular correspondent who I really appreciate his input, actually, Craig morning. Yes,

draftsman needs to be an LBP for design yep. And yes consent needed for the building work and the plumbing. So both the building and the plumbing work. This is with regard to Christine's discussion about essentially inclosing a return VERANDAH on an existing building on an old villa and adding an on suite into that space. Some advice was that it didn't require a building consent. My feeling is it definitely does, and that's backed up by Craig who

works in this field as well. So really appreciate that council says check LBP. Council says that they need to check the LBP. So should we be able to check the qualifications of the council staff assessing our application? Possibly a little bit unkind But what is the industry doing about this building consent nonsense? Don't be scared to answer Pete, Well, I hear what you're saying. I think we need controls right as my opinion, we need controls over what's built.

We need to protect the safety of people. We also need to protect the investment of people. And I think we've got a little bit of a short memory when it comes to the impact of bad building performance on the lives of Joe public basically. And there's still people who have had their lives turned upside down, their financial lives in particular turned upside down by leaky buildings, seeing their largest asset deteriorate in value with no redress, or

if there is redress. It's incredibly complicated and takes an enormously long time when you know something that they thought was going to be their biggest asset in their life really starts turning to mush around them. So you know, think back to that. That's why we have building controls in place. But typically the way it works is that all of the responsibility for that building ends up being primarily on councils because council are, to quote and often

use phrase, the last man standing. The developer's gone, the builder's gone, the contractors are gone, the companies that supplied the product might even have gone, and councils the last one standing. And people go, well, you gave it a building consent, therefore you're responsible for it. So is there

a better model? Lots of discussion in that area around more extensive use of insurance to manage risk in a sense, or to ensure not ensure compliance, but to ensure that if something goes wrong, someone's going to be there to pick up the pieces, and should that be the insurer. Now, there'll be a whole lot of criticism about that, and it's putting money into the pockets of multinationals blah blah blah, but ultimately it may well be a better way forward.

So we could talk about that in the next hour of the show as well. We've got news sport and we're the top of the art. Then we'll come back with your calls. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eight. You can call us now back after the news.

it already had a sanitary fitting right there. Didn't change any of the actual waste pipe, and changed the vanity, but the vanity went in pretty much the same position as the old one. So none of that requires a building consent. Keep records of it because people like to see what you did. So you know, if you get something from the plumber to say, hey, look I've done the work and I certify it. You get something maybe from the builder who does the work just saying look

I've done it in accordance with the code. And then if you sell the house later on, someone goes, oh, well that's not the original bathroom. Is it done properly? You've got a little bit of documentation that says it's done correctly. Absolutely, yep, exactly that. Go for it, and make sure you add extraction, decent extraction into the Yeah. Excellent, all right, all the best, Thanks Pete, Take care Leicester. Let's talk about consents.

after the point of time that you retire. And you could do exactly the same with someone who's a licensed building practitioner like myself. Now, theoretically in ten years, I'm able to get the super right. So if I was doing a project today and in seven years time, when I reached that age, I've still got three years of responsibility for that project. I would buy insurance that has

a continuity of care of insurance. That means that if there was an event after the time that I'd stopped working and been licensed as an LBP, there would still be insurance cover for the work that I'd done.

controls over building. But I think that you have to be wilfully naive to say that we have not tied ourselves up in knots with the building consent process at the moment where it has become so complex, so onerous, that people are looking for ways to get around it. Right, And so all of this discussion around in some cases housing affordability and what you can do without necessarily requiring a consent, speeding up the consent process seem that the roadblock to all of that seems to be that joined

in several liability where councils are going to be held responsible. Now, if we can free them up from that responsibility by substituting it with another form of responsibility eye insurances, then isn't that a process that we should look at.

I commented about this for years and when I looked into it, to me, the industry needs to change the model completely, and the two I found it were the best with the American model most not every state and the Dutch model. And essentially they run charter building contracts. So chart building concept. It means that you can only do works that peers in the industry are the builders recognize you capable of that. The consents can only be

gathered by a builder. As it stands at the moment, your teenage daughter could apply for a consent and get it. Architects are continue You're getting consent works that they draw that are aren't buildable or affordable, and we have a broken indus and excessive costs. I'll tell you my figure for free quoting is about fifteen percent of the industry revolves around free quoting, and I would say at least

twelve percent of that is inefficient. In other words, we're losing twelve percent or twelve percent of the cost of building revolves around the notion of free quoting. So the whole thing needs to be looked at. It's broken. I don't believe it works at all, and I don't even think taking counsel out of the process is going to fix it. I think we need a completely new way of doing it in deliveries.

is then made insurance manditory for lbps. And so if I, as an LBP do some building work, yeah, theoretically I'm responsible for it, but it's I'm only going to be held responsible when it goes through a court case, right, and there's some judgment. And in the meantime, you know, a client is left with poor workmanship that they have to struggle with for years and years and years while they go through the legal system to try and get redress.

Whereas you know, what you're saying is in the Netherlands and in the United States. I've got some familiarity through a maide of mine who's a lawyer who is works in Sweden right now. He's an interesting combination of a lawyer and a essentially a property developer, so very familiar with the hands on side of building, but also he has that legal background. And there the whole thing is driven or administered by insurance as well. That's the insurer

takes the risk for the building. The council has some involvement, but more as a record keeper, not as the last man standing. So you know, there are there are models, because I mean, we're not the only country in the world. They're not the only you know, first world country in the world that's got building consents and regulations around building controls. So there probably is a better model, and I agree

with you. I think that we do need to find a better model that says, you know, and especially in this this is where like this whole thing around the sixty square meter granny flat thing that might not require a building consent. What they're they're really saying. I think the crux of that is it is so onerous, so difficult to get a building consent for that type of work.

We're going to take it away from the building consent and allow you to do it with all of these other rules and regulations in place, whereas if there was a much more straightforward way of getting consent for these sorts of work, you could still get consent for it. But because there's not the enduring liability with the council, it'll sit with an insurer that will allow counsel to process them a lot quicker because they're not being held

responsible for it ultimately. And look all a text has said and here, look, you know, hey, Pete, I think of councils like the police. No one wants to know them, but when it suits them, they want them to be there and they want their help. Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. I understand that comment absolutely, So I'm saying that there has to be a way via It's going to be insurance, right, and that's going to be

putting money into the pockets of multinationals. And people get all upset about that and all the rest of it. But you know, try and convince me of another way and I'll listen to it. Good of you to call Lester always a pleasure than say in touch take care of Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. Take a short break at around seven forty five we're going to catch up with Nick Hardy Jones

from Metro Performance Glass. Lots and lots and lots of discussion at the moment around H one about the possibility of rolling back H one standards which have only just been increased. And obviously, if we're talking about the exterior of our building, glazing glass is a big part of that. So how do how does glass work with H one? We'll have a discussion with Nick Hardy Jones. If you've got any specific glazing questions, actually, feel free to flick them through and I'll see if we can get to

those as well if they're relevant. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. The couple of questions around or no comments really the texts having a great time. Actually, gents, with all due respect, we are never going to get away with circumventing the council and getting a building consent. It's the council process that needs addressing. Let's face it, the fact as it could be done a whole lot better. They cause a whole lot of

issues because it's so slow and they're overly pedantic. And again I'm not you know, I have some sympathiefic counsel as well, in the sense that I think they probably end up with a whole lot of building consent applications plans landing on their desk that are poorly done, and so you know they're sending it back going please explain. You haven't included this, You've got no decent evidence for this,

you haven't proved a compliance pathway. And I suspect that a reasonable number of the people that are complaining about the building consent process I getting your building consent from counsel are complaining without realizing that the quality of what they're giving them is rubbish basically, and that's why counsel needs to keep asking questions. Flip side to that is I am personally aware, as in firstand knowledge of building consents that have been submitted where the RFIs have been

unreasonable and in one case, completely and utterly idiotic. And I say that unreservedly, where it just showed an enormous lack of knowledge on the part of the person processing the building consent application, that they didn't understand some very basic elements of either building science or building compliance and asked questions about it. I had a response to a CCC application at one stage that asked me how I had provided ventilation to the subfloor space, and that was

an RFI to a CCC application. The building had a concrete slab. I was very tempted to reply, oldrill some holes in the slab and allow airflow, but I thought that that would probably be unwise. So, you know, I mean, they happen, and people make mistakes, and I get that, and they're off and overworked and all the rest of it. But it does point to a real some real challenges with the building consent process. How does it work if the company goes bust before the ten years is up?

What recall would I have? Is there some insurance, like a liability insurance that can respond? Yeah, there are that's the thing. You can get insurances that extend beyond the life necessarily of the company. There's got to be a solution. Certainly, we need to investigate them. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number to call? Hello there, Allen, Good morning, Good morning. Indeed, is it a good morning where you are, because it's pretty damn miserable there to be fair?

a quote and they give me a quote number. Further on in the document they use the word estimate three times. Yes, and they say please pay on the estimate, and this estimate is likely to change without notice. Here is an omissions accepted, and this estimate is valued, is valid for seven days. Now. I'm not terribly familiar with such things, but it seems to be that an estimate and a quote are two different animals.

to the indoor unit. We need to be able to mount that indoor unit on the wall and the right location, and we need to find a pathway to connect the two, and it's reasonable to assume, let's say that let's say the time required to do that is four hours, just off the top of my head. Then they get to your place and discover, in fact that maybe there's asbestoseness

of feet. They get to your place and discover that, in fact, there's a beam right there, and the pathway that they had they can't do, or that the pathway that they have to find for the condensake pipe that drains from the high wall unit is more challenging and has to go further, and perhaps they have to take off a couple of roof tiles to get access to it, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

So they will perhaps price the work assuming that it takes four to five hours to install, but if it takes eight hours, then you're paying for that eight hours. That's where I would have thought. They've got that whole changing from quote to estimate. The best way of getting around it is to say, look, I would actually like to firm up that price. Could someone come visit the site and give me a fixed quote for the work?

oh mate, that'll be five grand. And then I get diggers in and I box it all up and I pull the driveway and da da da da da, and I send you a bill for twelve and you go, well, hang on, hang on. You said the estimate was fine. Yeah, I know, but god it was really expensive, and da da da da, and here's my bill for twelve. Or you could say, hang on, no, you've got to stay within twenty percent of the five grand that you estimated, and therefore I'm only paying this amount or we'll go dispute.

So there are still some other controls around ensuring that the work is priced fairly.

thirty thousand dollars. Now, typically the responsibility for that in law is with the contractor to provide the contract, right, so they have to offer that to the client. There's no obligation on the part of the client to simply accept that contract as it is. They can discuss it, they can amend it, they can perhaps go away and have their own contract prepared by their lawyer and offer

that to the contractor. So you know, you can There's got a big discussion and a little bit of robust debate around these things to ensure that both parties needs are met, but it's not weighted in favor of one party, which some of these contracts can be. And if I was you is good. You know, if I'm in business, right, I'm going to protect my interests, right, I want to

protect and you want to protect yours. That's right. But you are in a fortunate position in the sense that you have the intellectual ability to understand that work through the complexity and make a reasoned response to it. And I guess in some cases people are not. But you are so good on you.

to do my own quantity surveying. I'm going to figure out how much is there, how much I have to remove, how much that's going to cost me, how many trucks I need to use. Then I'm going to figure out what it's going to cost me to box it, to lay some mesh in it, what type of concrete I'm going to put in there, what type of finishes required, allow time to strip the boxing. At the end of the job, get a concrete cutter in to do the expansion joints. All of that, right, all of the work

involved in that. I'm going to price all of that up, and I'm going to give you a fixed price for that work. Now, if I'm doing a fixed price because it's a quote, then I'm also going to allow a reasonable margin to allow for things that I might not have accepted or expected, or I'm going to tag those out. So if for example, the ground conditions are poor, I might say in my quote, I have allowed this to do this work, but if it's soft, or if there's

a requirement, then you're going to pay for that. You can add all of that into the quote, but generally the quote is a fixed price. An estimate is not an estimate. Is I think it will take this much and take that amount of time, et cetera, et cetera. But I'm not absolutely sure, and so the estimate is a reasonable based on a series of reasonable assumptions, and

this is what I think it's going to cost. The problem with estimates is that often they are underestimated, and then the client goes, well, hang on, you said five grand. Now you're charging me ten. But there is also now requirements and has been for a long time that estimates need to be within a reasonable amount of the finished work. You can't estimate a job and then it doubles that you shouldn't get paid for that basically, so hopefully that's

the difference between estimates and quotes. But quotes can go over as long as you've tagged it. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is number to call. We'll take short break the back with Jeff in just a moment, very quick text. Hey Pete, I'm thinking about getting some renovations completed. A friend has said that I need a drafts person draftsman if I want to put in a second toilet and shower. Is that correct? Thanks from Kristen. Yes, your friend is well advised. You will need to You'll

need to submit plans. Plans can only be drawn by someone who has an LBP license. Now that might be a drafts person, might be an architect. And the reason that it's going to require a building consent you said you need plans to get a building consent is the key phrase in your text is second toilet and shower. So you're adding the number of sanitary fittings to the house. That triggers requirement for a building consent. So yes, you will need to submit plans to counsel in order to

get a building consent for that work. Jeff, A very good morning, not bad, thank you yourself.

What I worry about, Peter, is thinking about Peter is that after a period of time, you know, after water blasting and has taken the cement off the top yep. So I'm just wondering, can I tidy it up by sayce hose it all down and sprinkles ordinary cement on it and rubbing and bum would that help?

actually done something like that. Just a quick question. When you say it's in boxes, is it like was it Poorter's pads? And then a gap like one hundred more gap in between them.

around scattering cement on top. I don't. I think it'll get a really patchy finish and it probably won't adhere particularly well. Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't he.

do a lot less water blasting. So I'm a big fan of various treatments that you can apply that will activate and then you're rinsing that off with a water blaster and not trying to blast the surface layer off. Oh eight, one hundred and eighty ten eighty quick call from Mary, and then we're going to talk to Nick Cardy Jones about glazing an H one compliance in just a moment. Hello, they're Mary.

that we got these to them. We stily wins through there and I decided that we're going to fill the put three walls in there, so no plumbing, no electricity. The roof was already there. I ran the council. I had an architect droughout the plans so I was getting a registered builder to build it for me, so they knew exactly what I wanted to do. We swung the area was three point six by six meters across and it was the cost of the building consense and the

inspections that I needed. The first quote was for eight hundred and twelve dollars, so it's quite a specific case. My husband since passed away. But I thought, well, i'd you know, I thought on a pension that was quite a bit of money. I said, was it going to be much much more? And they said, maybe we bit more. I got a bill for another two thousand dollars. I had seven inspections on three walls. Basically we swung the old wall around to you know, to face the west.

I had two six windows, a four about a three meter wall put up to give me a way bit of privacy from the road, and just another single door. The thing with the cost of building I had seven inspections on that. I couldn't believe it. I did complain to them why it took so many, because it wasn't you know, there wasn't a lot of work that I could see. Still took over a month to get the consents reviewed. The thing is that the cost of building

consents very right across New Zealand. That was almost you know, it was almost half the cost of building a whole house with plumbing, electricity and all the rest. I bent back to the council after work was done. We had one inspector here that didn't even wait for the border. One hundred and sixty nine dollars was for each inspection. They've now gone up to over two hundred dollars and he was telling me what I had to tell the border. So I was absolutely I think it was the unfairness

of it. They did ask me what I wanted, and I thought, well, I can't get my money back, but that's actually what I'm wanting. I'm wanting fear costings all over New Zealand. Different trades people have spoken since then, they said it's a nightmare. I went back. I had a meeting with council. They said, the reason they're so pidentic is they're concerned about being taken to court. They

if they don't do it. But surely if you've got registered builders, if they have enough insurance company fun to insure the most they've got enough complaints against them, so that would almost be self regulating. If you haven't got a you know, if you haven't got the.

And you know, I'm not pretending that there's simple solutions to this, but what you've said there is perfectly succinct in the sense that work like that done by a license building practitioner with the appropriate insurance sort of removes counsel from the liability side of it or all of the liability and allows things to be to have controls, to have a system in place that will look after any faults later on via insurance and could speed the process up. And I think that's what we should be

looking at. I thank you very much for your comments, very wise, all the very best. It is seven forty six here at used Talk Set B. We've got Nick Hardy Jones coming up in just a moment, and it's my pleasure to welcome back to the show now a regular contributor to Cardi Jones from Metro Performance Glass A very good.

suddenly there's possibility it's going to be rolled back. But in terms of New Zealand houses, we often love the view and so to get the maximum of the view, we end up with a lot of glass in our houses. So in terms of H one in compliance, how important is the glazing selection?

The glass is critically important to that because it makes up such a big surface area and so you know, using the benefits of technology and low e coating, you can really list that several forms of a home and retain the light coming into your building.

become uncomfortable. But there are simple ways you can achieve ways to reduce that. So you can have solar heat control in your double glazing, and that will mean that in the winter you get the benefits of the low e keeping the heating, and then in the summer it gives you some control, so you reduce the amount of solar heat coming into the home and prevent that overheating effect.

through a home. So if you've got lots of glazing on the northeast and west, and you've got really really big windows and maybe some quite raltively small leaves, then thinking about solar heat control into your glazing is a really really good thing to do.

eighty percent. To put that in some context, a tinted glass might reduce your light transmission down to about half about fifty percent. So with modern high end double glazing, you can achieve the solar control, knock out about thirty to sixty percent of that solar heat game, and still have a lot of light coming into the home.

boot into council. And I think counsel are in an enviewable position where they've been left as being the person responsible, the entity responsible for buildings after the contractors have gone et cetera, et cetera, And so it's not surprising that they've taken a low risk approach. So is there a way of not de risking it but sharing liability when things go wrong? And is insurance the best way to do that? Lots and lots of texts on that as well. So if you'd like to talk about that, we can

talk all things building and construction after the break. Remember at eight thirty we've also got a decline pass joining us and we're jumping into the garden with Rid from eight thirty.

how the sort of public discussion. I'm genuinely I'm quite intrigued and quite excited about the amount of discourse, let's say, discussion in public circles around buildings and building legislation, building performance, you know, government regulation, et cetera, et cetera, whether it's around the current discussion about sixty square meter buildings potentially being able to be built without necessarily requiring a building consent, whether it's proposed changes to H one standards, so they

increased as of November of last year, and then suddenly people are saying, oh, it's added too much cost, it's unaffordable, we need to roll back H one and so on. And then a lot of discussion and comment online and in the media around our houses now because we've started to insulate them really warmly, really well, they're too hot, they're overheating, as if the insulation is to blame for that, which is nonsense, and even I think I read it

out a little while ago a brand's response. So this is the Building Research Authority of New Zealand, whose whole job it is is to research these things, and they've made a very clear statement around saying no, added insulation

is not the cause of overheating to buildings. So this was a story in the paper probably a month or two ago, when it will sort of the end of summer, people going well, hang on, I've just moved into a brand new townhouse and I'm finding that I'm spending an enormous amount on energy to run the heat pump to cool the house down. The house is too hot. The house is too hot because it's probably to be blunt, poorly designed, rather than it's got good insulation in it.

So interesting to discuss that with Nick, but also around that complexity about different glazing styles and I think getting away from this notion that we've always typically had that I mean, back in the day when you had very little choice, there was glass right there, was there was a single piece of glass and you put it in. You might need to put some safety glass in. If it was a big window, you might need to do a laminate, if it was in a bathroom, et cetera,

et cetera. But now suddenly there's options for solar control around more insulation to keep heat transferred to a minimum, keep it inside the house, to prevent it from overheating. These ways of doing solar gain. And you might want acoustic performance and you can do that in different windows all way around the house. So I think we need to embrace complexity. We'd like things to be simple, but

sometimes they're just not. In buildings. This is the dichotomy I guess of buildings that I really enjoy as well, particularly the discussion about them, is that in a basic sense, our buildings are shelter, right, That's what they're there for. They're the cave that we had when we were cave people,

cave men, you know. They're the hut that we might have had in the Middle Ages, those sorts of things, and so they're still shelter today, but they've become far more complex than that as we demand more of them. We don't want to spend an enormous amount of energy either heating our houses in winter because they're poorly built, and all of that heat simply leaks out through the cladding,

through the walls, through the ceilings, through the floor. So as a means of getting energy efficiency, we want to make the houses perform better. We want their thermal performance

to increase, and that's a complicated thing to do. I saw a set of building, of set of plans about to be submitted for building consent soon, and someone asked me just to sort of cast my eye over it, and the thing that jumped out at me was that the way in which they had put the they'd gone for good quality glazing, good chlority joinery, but they hung it outboard of the insulation line, so, you know, reducing the performance of that simply by a lack of awareness

around what is best practice today. So that's where what looks simple can be complex. And it's complex because they are a dynamic situation. Our buildings are dynamic and we need to understand how they perform in order to get the best out of them. So it's that great dichotomy.

They're simple at shelter, but they're not because they're comple structures and complex environments with any number of competing forces that we need to be able to manage and control to get the best out of the buildings that we live in. I eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call if you've got a comment that you'd like to make on anything building. I eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. Actually, someone's oh, I'm just going to grab this text before we earlier.

Calling wanting to upgrade their bathroom and place the bath with a shower cup. Won't necessarily have to install ventilation if they cover the top of the cube. Call with a dome, install ventilation. Just put decent ventilation in our My new ventilation expert Storm is going to join us. I've got to set that up sometime the next couple of weeks, so we'll talk all things ventilation. A deep dive into ventilation coming up on the show in the couple of weeks. I eight hundred eighty ten eighty the

number to call. Aaron, Good morning to you. Sure see how we gotta I'm well, thank you and yourself.

old to do it anyway. I got a younger brother who's embarrassed and he always likes an argument and an easygoing. All fellas I think need some content to this and that and blah blah blah. Basically we're just replacing like to like you know, just pulling the jib off, replacing that plastom, painting, piling, new shower and new vanity. Nothing more than that. And is there anything that I need to get a PCBC, a goo? Can we do we need to do anything?

I think you're probably on reasonably safe grounds. The other thing that's really really important, and I kind of realize that I'm repeating myself. Often even work that is done that doesn't necessarily require a building consent must be done to the building code. So for example, if you were swapping out a window, then the way that it's installed, the way the performance expectations have to be up to building code.

I have one of those coas please? And they go, oh, actually, you've got to prove that it's compliant and that's that's quite a process.

it does. So if you're doing a tile shower with a waterproof lining underneath it, like a whether it's a peel and stick or a brush on application, if it's a waterproof system that you're installing, yes, that triggers a requirement for a building consent, even if it's not necessarily level entry. So even if you've got if you're not changing the floor, you're building it up and you're putting a hob or a plinth around the edge, that still

triggers the requirement for a building consent. As I understand it. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, we need to take short break back in a mote. When we're talking tools for working in the garden and the yard, there's one trusted brand that stands out as having the widest range, the most durable products, and importantly, a nationwide chain of retail and server centers. And that includes the fifteen stores

right across Auckland. You guessed it, it's Still Shop. In a time when everyone's saying that you need to be careful with your spending, why not buy that last Tools that go the distance, tools that you can actually take somewhere for service down the track. Do the value equation and it becomes abundantly clear. Still is unexpectedly affordable with still petrol chainsaws from just three fifty five, Still line trimmer kits from three hundred and five dollars, Still battery

blower kits from just two fifteen. Deal with the experts your local Still shop, check out the Still prices right now, fifteen stores across Auckland and an online shop that never closes. Still Shop, Love your Land news talk, said Bellows. Just all one day. I use the song as a way of introducing people that I might have worked with or

encountered during the week that have been outstanding. And I use it today really to mark the passing of a guy that I've had the pleasure in the honor of working with for the last gosh since about two thousand twelve.

I first met Clinton Jones, who worked as at Green Gorilla, and when you if you ran Clint and you didn't get him, and you got his answer phone message, it was warm and welcoming and he said, look, I'm probably busy out saving the planet, and that was exactly what he did, and he bought a tremendous passion to his work. He was just a fantastic guy and I'm deeply saddened by his passing. So my condolences to his family and to his kids, and to those people that he worked

with and whose lives he touched. He was a remarkable, remarkable man, gone too soon. So Clinton Jones, thanks for the company and your friendship. It's been an absolute pleasure. Your news talks there be and we are talking all things building and construction as well. Ross Greetings, Yeah, good morning.

These were fully houses that had bullys and everything else and properly done. There was no These were not plaster homes. But what they did there. All the timber was kiln dried. The studs came in a packet. I think they were ninety four and a half inches and the stud placement were about fifteen inches and you'll have to forgive me for inches sixt inches.

put on. And it used to take us about three weeks or a month to frame up a three bedroom house from the from the pouring the form foundation, and on the outside of the house, on top of the plywood would then go the shrink wrap or the wrap, and on top of that would go the weather boards sid siding where we were siding, and then the house

was shut up the inside. The heating was installed and they had to get the moisture content down to something like seven percent and that would take possibly two or three weeks. And after that on the inside would then go the jib board and the class or the wiring for that, and the jib board and so forth. And they didn't have nogs.

that you're seeing being built. And then the other end of the spectrum, let's say, and this isn't a value judgment, is houses that are you know, less complex, are designed to be built in a more affordable manner. You know, I mean you I've done them where we'll get you know, from slab, we'll get trusses, we'll get frames up, trustes on and be ready for roofing six seven days later. Right, So you know, we shouldn't confuse the typer house and assume that not all houses are the same. Right to

be to be blunt. So I think you're right. I think we're seeing I think what we're going to see is a lot less of that highly complex bespoke building, and it's only going to be a small part of the construction sector and we will see much more around ideally, you know, well developed building methodology that allow full speed and efficiency.

get more insulation. And you know, so we are starting to see that those ideas coming in, maybe just not quite as quick as we were hoping.

of how we build most houses in New Zealand. Saying that, you know, one of the challenges we've got around insulation is that we're finding through surveys that as much as forty five percent up to forty five percent of our exterior walls is timber framing now, which doesn't leave a lot of space for insulation. So now we've got to

think about better solutions for insulation. Yeah, are we excessively braced and all the rest of it, I'm not sure what the answer is there, and I think what you bring to the table, Ross is that you know, we're not the only people in the world building ours is right, and so we tend to get this thing that somehow what we do here is completely unique to us, and it's just not right. There are lots of things that we can learn from overseas. Hopefully we just bring back

the good ideas and leave the daft ones behind. But you know, we need to look overseas. We need to look at what they're doing to create efficiencies while not giving up on quality and performance. We're going to jump into the garden with Red Klein passed in just a moment. I just want to read this text from Paul morning. Pete couldn't agree more. Clint was a brilliant team guy who was years ahead and is thinking of how to deal with construction waste and improve the environment. We'll remember

him from Paul. You're absolutely right, Paul, thanks for texting that. Clint Jones rest in peace. We are back after the break and we will talking to root climb.